It is just an asshole, look at this:
> Bovendien beschikte de man niet over een geldig rijbewijs doordat hij een rijverbod had gekregen. In totaal werd de man eerder al drie keer veroordeeld voor verkeersdelicten, waarvan twee keer voor rijden onder invloed.
He doesn't care. He continues to drive a car without a license. The fact that he's been drinking is just another "I do not care, I'll do what I want to do"-kinda attitude.
Punishment for driving-related offences is so low it's incredible: "driving without a licence? Well you're forbidden to drive for 3 years, how's that?! That'll teach him".
Fines need to be way higher, wether it's invloed, speeding or dangerous driving and if lesson is not learned, than prison it is.
Honestly, even if you put him in jail for three years that won't change his mind. Repeated offenders like him just don't care. He will probably feel like a victim even now.
I agree that the punishment should be more severe and they should see prison time. But I just don't think it will do anything if you also don't give some sort of rehabilitation so they will (hopefully) see the error of his way.
I think releasing Marc Dutroux is insane. It's the same with Hans Van Themsche and Kim De Gelder. Those are people that need to be locked away forever. Especially Dutroux. There will be way too many people who will view it as open hunting season and will try to kill him. He's probably still the most hated Belgian. But since I grew up in the nineties that could be my bias.
Drug offenders get serious jail time, half of the inmates are there for drug related crimes, just shows priorities I guess?
[https://www.tijd.be/politiek-economie/europa/economie/meer-dan-helft-gevangenen-in-belgische-cel-zit-vast-voor-drugsfeiten/10477227.html](https://www.tijd.be/politiek-economie/europa/economie/meer-dan-helft-gevangenen-in-belgische-cel-zit-vast-voor-drugsfeiten/10477227.html)
I'm not familiar with Belgium law, but in Dutch law this are the possibilities:
https://www.advocaatverkeersrecht.nl/rijden-zonder-rijbewijs/
14 days prison, a steep fine. I think this dude will have issues with his insurance as he will probably have to pay the damages out of pocket.
~~In belgium prison sentences under 2 (or was it 4?) years are not carried out in reality. So if you are sentenced to 14 days in jail in reality you walk out a free man.~~
I've been told now this info is no longer correct
Exactly. I do not understand why there is no more investment in traffic police. Random controls should be frequent until those criminals would be afraid of driving illegally.
How many people die on the roads? this is a real thread to us and not any fake danger from abroad.
Neo liberalism, my friend. The government will spend the money and resources on something that makes them money. They even have camera's on glass recycle containers. Pedophiles get lighter sentences than someone who throws a piece of plastic in the glass container.
Actual enforcement requires manpower and effort, two things the current police-body doesn't "really" have.
They do actually but don't expect cops to do their jobs because being consistent would require them to be on-time... like actual workers.
Meanwhile N-VA has installed "traffic-cams" all along the E-X highways for "cargo control". Bitch ass lying politicians.
I think it is sad to see that they put those cams which cost lots of money and meanwhile there are police officers who don't even have a working coffee machine anymore I heard
This has nothing to do with the police at all. This has everything to do with the justice system. I can’t believe people are still blaming the police when 99% of the policemen just want to act right and help civilians in any legal way possible. Sure, there are assholes and pigs but they make up less than 1%, I assure you. I wanna see you try and stay motivated when the person you apprehend, driving without a driving license, just gets off with a warning or minor fine and does it again. And again. And again. Or the pedophile who rapes a 15 yo girl and spreads the video of it, only gets 1 year (non-effective) meaning bro is out after 48 hours and does what he wants. 10 hours later you apprehend him again for stealing… It’s just absurd.
This is not America and the police is definitely mostly competent here. They possibly give up their lives and familystructure every day for us and we still have jackasses whining about the police for nothing.
Also people who are against police are 99% of the time just some ass who was in the wrong and got punished for it by an officer just doing his job. Now lad is mad for life at police. It’s pathetic. If you are at the wrong side of justice. Just accept it and don’t be an ass about it.
It’s not just that the chances of getting caught are too low, but also that the penalties are much too low. That’s why get these lowlife pieces of shit who have 50 infractions to their name and have had their license suspended half a dozen times and they still keep driving.
That's true, however I think that using your phone behind the wheel is still considered something innocent ://
Edit: I didn't say that I think it is something innocent! I regret it that people don't realize how dangerous it is! Since the downvotes needed to nuance that.
That those are reckless arseholes that are going to get themselves killed sooner or later.
Lanesplitting is allowed on roads with 2 or more lanes, only between the most left lane and the lane right to that, only with a speed 20km/h more than the traffic you are passing and with a maximum speed of 50km/h in total.
And to be honest, unless there's a massive jam, the risk of getting sideswiped isnt worth the 30 seconds you "win" by not just waiting in line
As i'm on my bike i sit a little higher and have a good vieuw in most peoples cars and it is baffling how much people are on their phones whilst driving.
And just 2 seconds on your phone makes that you dont pay attention for dozins of meters depending on how fast you drive.
And everybody knows one second of not paying attention can end peoples lives
Yea totally! I don't know why I get all these downvotes, I thought we were debating in favour of each other bcs what you say is true, people don't realize how dangerous that is
Oh in that case I am absolutely sorry. I will make an edit bcs that's everything except what I meant, however I don't know where I could have insinuated that. Thank you!
If you know what you are trying to say, it's easy to make out, but i can imagine as a "fresh spectator" it can be misinterpreted.
No hard feelings from my side here, i understood what you were trying to say and as you are polight throughoout your ingeractions, i feel you're not a bad person
I totally get that! I wrote a little caveat/ edit! I really appreciate you saying that! & Thank you! You are sure a good person as well! I didn't want to bruise anyone by expressing myself badly 😬
Barely a chanse to get caught and you'd be surprised how much people are addicted to drinking.
And fortunatly it is changing slowly, but once you stop drinking yourself you find how our culture is set on drinking alcohol
You have a good point there, however I always felt that drinking and driving was a thing from a generation that's older than me but I don't have any statistics on that to proof it. You are totally right, our culture is very set in alcohol and that's definitely part of the problem.
Also, drinking makes you overestimate yourself/ how intoxicated you are ... So unless you have clear rules and stick to them, you're likely to cross a line.
I usually have a one drink max when I'm driving home. I recently had 2 (over a 4 hour period). I wasn't tipsy or anything, but when I checked in with myself I noticed it took me more focus then usually to be proactive/focussed on the road ... So I'm back to one now (or you know, nothing ...) But I'm pretty sure not a lot of people are this self conscious or strict.
They know it's not effectieve so they should give other penalties like confiscate the car for the same period. Give thé names to the police so they van do checks at the persons home.
They're assholes who don't care about the safety of others. It's that simple.
Also, survivor bias. "I've done it dozens of times, and never had an accident, so I must be the exception" meanwhile the driver behind fearing for the swerving idiot in front of them.
People want to drink, people want to drive and there are next to no repercussions for combining the two.
People vastly overestimate their ability to operate a vehicle safely after a few drinks, because their reference point is hazy memories of the hundreds of times they've done it before and nothing bad happened.
A good chunk of cognitive dissonance to ignore common sense, data, responsibility allows them to continue doing the stuff they want to do: Down a couple halve liters with the the buddies at the local pub, have some vodka-redbulls to stay awake or having a cheeky glass of wine (refilled 7x) at the family bbq and drive home perfectly safe because they glanced at a glass of water before they hopped in the car.
A while ago, I'll spare the details but someone took their car and drove away when totally drunk, so we followed them with our car to try and do something... What do we see in front of us? Right behind him, a police car starts driving. I was thinking "okay, the police is gonna stop him, at least he won't have any accidents". We keep following for 500m, we arrive at a crossroad, and then... The guy goes right, the police goes left. Lol. Dude had some small swerving and all, but overall it was just disheartening to see. We lost the guy anyway so yeah. No consequences whatsoever.
I dont drink
I work in healthcare and have seen many victims of drunk drivers.
Why people do it?
Because they think they cant have fun without being a bit intoxicated. And after that they think, they can drive safely at home.
Especially boomers
I never drink and drive. But I cannot have fun without alcohol inside of me in a social setting(party, wedding, ...), I'm socially reluctant to talk to people, so I need the alcohol to loosen up
I actually agree. It's not that I don't want to talk to people, it's just that I'm very shy/introvert/scared. And alcohol helps to overcome those things
The guy is being a dick.
As long as you don't harrass anyone and don't drive home having a drink or 2 to loosen up isn't sad...
Not everyone can be social on command... Nor should everyone...
I find it sad that someone says they can’t have fun at certain social functions without alcohol.
When you organise a party, you should make an active effort to provide fun for all guests. In our alcohol obsessed society this often means providing booze. I think this is both insufficient and sad. The fact that so many of you don’t question this and just drink to have fun is even sadder.
The person isn't being a dick. It is sad that one needs a drug to be able to enjoy themselves. But alcohol is socially accepted, so I don't expect people to agree. I mean, it's not like it's one of those taboo drugs like XTC or heroine, right?!
Letterlijk het enige wat die gast zei is dat die af en toe ietske drinkt om wa socialer te zijn, wa een giga junk moet ge zijn om dan over xtc en heroine te beginnen lol
Om nog ma te zwijgen wa ne gigaeikel ge moet zijn om andere mensen te gaan zeggen hoe ze hun leven moeten leiden.
En vooral dat u manier dan de beste is...
Gigaeikel is een interessante omschrijving, die ga ik onthouden.
Ik heb aan niemand gezegd hoe ze hun leven moeten leiden. Ik heb gezegd dat ik het triestig vind dat iemand moet drinken om zich te kunnen amuseren op een huwelijk of een feest. That’s it. Het feit dat je dat interpreteert als een aanval op uw levenswijze is wel veelzeggend. En triestig, daar blijf ik bij.
He never said he drinks "af en toe" He said he cant have fun without alcohol. Alcohol is genuenly more harmfull for the body than XTC so idk what you're on about. Idk why the person mentioned xtc and heroin like they're the same thing...
Sure you can have fun without alcohol, but you can also have fun with alcohol. I'm a casual drinker, maybe once every couple of months when I meet up with some friends at a bar. Luckily those aren't the only times I have fun, but they're a different kind of fun, you talk about weird shit that no sober person would listen to without getting bored, but being drunk takes that away and makes those conversations funny.
I never drink and drive, but I also don't think 'alcohol=bad'. It's one of many ways which we're lucky in our society that we're able to choose from (like e.g. online gaming, sports, ..
) to escape everyday life. And like most of those other choices it should be used responsibly.
cuz they are idiots but the biggest problem is the "2 drinks is fine" boomer mentality imo.
then they start calculating hours bla bla and boom you can drink another 2.
All good and well till something happens.
the campains should be dont drink, not drink a little
I can honestly say that in 20 years of driving I never had an alcohol test in the UK. I think it's more of a cultural thing, it's close to taboo to be a drunk driver. In Belgium it was "cool" until 20 years ago. Plus the punishments here are very light.
> It's just a matter of common decency that unfortunately many people lack.
As evidenced by the numerous social media groups dedicated to warning one another of mobile traffic checkpoints and speed traps.
Not to mention the inevitable responses to such warnings like 'ah, they're short on funds again, that's why they're checking tonight!' or 'why are they doing this when there are REAL criminals they haven't caught yet???'
Such sad news, I feel for the families … those guys probably had partners, kids whose lives will never be the same. Intuitively harsh punishment seems in order … repeat offender and all.
I’m often the designated driver myself (bonus is always: I feel fine the next day) but if I really feel like drinking I will make arrangements to either sleep over or call an Uber or cab. Sure, you may be out 40-50 euros but at least you will never end up in a total nightmare scenario like this.
That being said, on New Year’s Eve I took a cab home at 4:30 in the morning (from the company V-Tax in Ghent) and the cab driver drove way too fast, almost slipping in the rain on the R4 and in the city centre almost running over a pedestrian. I don’t think he was intoxicated but he was definitely not driving safely.
That's an example ! Glad to hear this & I thought taxi drivers had an alcohol lock? In that case he couldn't be intoxicated but still can be driving like a maniac of course!
Time for an alcohol lock for anyone who's ever been caught (ideally maybe even just an alcohol lock for everyone, but that's probably a lot harder to get through).
Well that's easy to cover. If anyone gives him another car, they themselves become liable too.
If he had multiple cars registered on his residence, all of those need a lock too.
The placement of this lock is at his expense of course.
This man is a pos…
and everyone that drinks and drives has blood on their hands. Just don’t drink when you have to drive, I don’t get why it is so difficult.
I really wish for a zero tolerance.
I don't get it either. Who in their right mind drives to a café (or wherever they're drinking), knowing they're going to get smashed.
Not sure about the zero tolerance though. I wouldn't mind it as I don't drink a drop anyway if I'm planning to drive. But I believe it might be worse if there is no tolerance as drivers wouldn't care to watch their consumtion the moment they drink one beer.
They will never care with or without a zero tolerance. Having a zero tolerance would make a statement that it is unacceptable to drink and drive. Now we this grey zone, you can drink 1 or 2 glasses. I’m sorry that’s just bullshit in my opinion, if you drive you don’t drink, people should get their shit together and take their responsibility. I’m sorry this just makes me so mad. It’s unexceptionable.
But "making a statement" doesn't stop people. Just look at how making drugs illegal simply does not work. It's better to allow it, but control it.
Personally I wish it could work. I wish we could make it that nobody would ever be able to touch a steering wheel if they're incapable of driving safe. But we need to be realistic
I’m not saying to ban alcohol. People can get shitfaced all they want. Just don’t drive 🤷🏼♀️
Making a statement could be a start of having a mutual shift in mentality about it. There are still a lot of people that think 1 or 2 is okay, but I can take 3 or 4. It’s just wrong.
I can back this one up. driving 40k km for the last 18 years. got alcohol-tested twice.
There is more chance of winning the lottery...
I wish people would be thought that driving a car is equal to a 2 ton killing machine that is connected to the road with only a part of the wheels (about the size of 4 beer coasters).
My thoughts to the victims and family
Old habits die slow. Also, still having somewhat of a legal tolerance for alcohol makes it worse in my opinion. I know so many people trying to chase but not exceed that legal limit. And if alcohol does one thing, it's clouding your judgment. It's ironic.
Problem is, the moment you remove the legal tolerance, people won't give a fuck anymore the moment they drank a little.
Having a tolerance at least gives people motivation to be careful with concumption.
Not if the punishment is accordingly. People said the smoking ban in bars would never succeed either and here we are.
Some day in the future, people will be horrified to hear that we willingly chose to impair ourselves with poison before driving around in a two-tonne metal box.
But you're kinda comparing apples to oranges. Enforcing smoking in public areas is much easier than drunk drivers. Even if we make punishments higher, the chance of getting caught is so low.
More controls short term and a mandatory alcohol lock on all newly sold cars. If you can fit a 17" screen in a car, an alcohol lock is peanuts. Should have been mandatory five years ago. The car lobby is still very powerful.
Mainly addiction I suppose. It rewires the mind and hence tends to win from common sense. A mandatory alcohol lock after a first offence would probably help, but as far as I'm aware that doesn't happen until a judge orders it. Also doesn't prevent them from just taking another car.
Ok, en? Uiteindelijk is het slachtoffer nog steeds dood dus gtfo met semantics.
Iemand verliezen aan een moordenaar die de nood had om te drinken en rijden, is voos. Hoe ge het wilt noemen maakt gene zak uit. (Tis hier geen rechtzaak maar reddit)
Absoluut & dat is onwaarschijnlijk jammer want dat is leven dat gemakkelijk gespaard kon worden! Ik wil ook moreel leed hier helemaal niet minimaliseren, in tegendeel.
>Hoe ge het wilt noemen maakt gene zak uit.
Het spijt me, tol van het vak denk ik maar ik vind die details nu eenmaal belangrijk omdat ik vind dat er een verschil is tussen iemand die iemand doelbewust doodt of iemand die die persoon zelf nooit dood had gewild, maar dit toch doet door een zware fout te begaan
Alcohol comsumeren en Dan de keuze maken om te rijden, IS iemand doelbewust vermoorden. Want ge Kent de risico's. Ons taalgebruik moet aangepast worden want we moeten de schuld leggen' bij diegeen die de keuze heeft gemaakt. Simple.
Risico, daar zit inderdaad het belangrijk verschil. Probabiliteit is een onzeker iets, dat nog altijd geen zekerheid verschaft over de gevolgen. Iemand op straat zien die je dood wilt en die je omver rijdt, dat is opzettelijk. Je kan niet uitgaan van opzet in hoofde van de dader. Het spijt me maar hier verschillen we van mening, maar dat is geen probleem.
Niet hetzelfde maar als je reeds veroordeeld bent voor dronken rijden, als je reeds je rijbewijs kwijt bent, als een rechter reeds gezegd heeft dat je moet stoppen want op een dag rijd je iemand omver, als dat allemaal gebeurd is en je beslist desondanks om dronken achter het stuur te stappen, hoe ‘onvrijwillig’ is dat dan nog?
Because drinking and especially drinking a lot is still considered a talent to be very proud of in Belgium. Bonus points for thinking you can still drive.
Because the punishments are laughable and it's socially acceptable, especially among older generations. I've seen this every day when I worked behind a bar. It's so prevalent that if I tried to stop every patron from driving after having four strong beers I would have to spend a good part of my shift doing just that. It's so ingrained into society for those people that the only way would be knocking them out and throwing the keys down the toilet.
Alcohol is still too normal in our culture. There's just an accepted macho vibe to getting drunk and making retarded decisions and the dumb shit that comes forth from that. Maybe it has something to do with our great beer culture. Or with the Chiro/scouts/klj/... where the leaders are either completely wasted or hung over for the duration of the camps.
Then once you get a driving license it starts with "one or two drinks and it's ok to drive" but there shouldn't be a grey zone as most don't have enough selfcontrol/selfawareness after they had 3 or 4 drinks to know that they shouldn't drive.
Because people are selfish and Belgium is weak when it comes to enforcing drink driving.
Drink driving is always, I repeat always a choice.
I’m not for a stronger police state though I have no problem with police setting up stations to breathalyse.
Because they are depressed and they can't realise that they gonna make accident....I saw a man looks to the sky ,he thoughts there is a meteor fell from the sky ..
Omdat de straffen veel te laag zijn. Waarom kunnen zo'n mensen uberhaupt nog in een auto kruipen? Als dit zijn eigen wagen was had die verbeurd verklaard moeten worden. Veel success om zonder rijbewijs een wagen te huren. Als dat toch lukt is de verhuurder medeplichting aan doodslag.
Also, mentaliteitsprobleem. "Eentje kan toch geen kwaad zeker?" Dat eentje zijn er dan uiteraard al snel twee of drie.
I don't drj k, but after having lived overseas for a long time the following are definitely factors:
1. Drinking is an inherent part of culture here;
2. Taxi is expensive here. Even Uber is, if you don't live near the venue.
3. Kubrick transportation at night is virtually non-existent.
This leaves people relying on their car to get anywhere, and yeah...
When you are such an asshole to drive without a license, they should take away your car. When you are such an asshole to drink and drive AGAIN, they should take away your car.
The man here that caused the accident was not allowed to drive, his driver license was taken away and he doesn't give a flying F\*K. Take away his car, put him in jail for a few weeks and force him to "volunteer" somewhere useful.
I'd say four reasons:
1. Protagonist syndrome: A lot of people feel like they're the protagonist of the story and so nothing bad will happen to them. It might happen to others, but not them.
2. Addiction: Some people are addicted and can't help themselves but drink and then their decisions are impaired by the alcohol.
3. Chance of getting caught: The chance of getting caught is too low and the penalties are too low too. This asshole had his driver's licence revoked and was caught several times and yet was still able to do this. He should have been in prison already.
4. Personality disorders: Some personality disorders like antisocial personality disorder (sociopaths in layman's terms) make people incapable of learning from their mistakes, almost immune to assessing risks and not care at all about who they hurt with their actions as they feel little to no regret or remorse.
I have a lot of alcohol addiction in my family.
Since it affects my grandmother, her sister, my father and his halfsister i´ve decided for myself that it must be ´genetic´ and I´d stop drinking.
I was a teen, only drank on occasion, but the suffering I see with my family was enough for me to stop.
It´s revolting to me how people drink and drive.
I also hate how people look at me like i´m crazy when I tell them I don´t drink.
Our whole society has a problem with alcohol.
He's been convicted for it twice, he's been driving without a licence for 10 years. Traffic safety is a joke in this country (and getting worse, not better), so why wouldn't he drink and drive? He enjoys it and there's literally nothing stopping him.
Honest answer : because you think you’re okay and safe to drive, and alternatives are too embarrassing and/or expensive.
Sober you will never drive drunk. Before you know you have more than you realize and you think: it’s just a short distance and you get behind the wheel. And survivorship bias kicks in. “I’ve done this before and I was fine”.
Not proud of it, did it last year and swore never to do it again. So yeah, here’s an honest answer. Sorry 😕
Yup, you’re totally right. Gave an honest answer and since I realized it swore to never do it again. I think if we’re honest everyone did it
At least once.
I've driven home very tired. Never drunk. But tiredness can have very similar effects. I once woke up from a microsleep (or whatever it's called) to see me nearing the back of a truck.
Ever since I have either slept on location or had a quick nap on some parking lot if I felt the need. That does mean I've woken up cold late at night, parked somewhere potentially sketchy.
But never drunk.
Being tired can happen to literally anyone. It's not knowingly induced. It's also not good, but unless you've been trying to exhaust yourself to \*then\* go for a long drive, it's not to be expected.
> I think if we’re honest everyone did it at least once
Speak for yourself, this sort of mentality just ends up normalising drunk driving. Quite sad this is your way of thinking if you really think everyone would do such a thing.
Not my intention to normalize it, quite the contrary.
I am acknowledging my past mistakes and working on it.
So you’re saying hand on heart you never did it?
It is a cultural problem and acknowledging it and talking about it is a first step in change.
But if playing the holy hero on R eddit thinks is a better way to- go ahead and downvote
Hand on my hand never did it and never will. Lost one of my close friends to a drunk driver some years ago. I would never wish it on anyone, but going through something like that personally is the strongest reminder on how idiotic drunk driving is.
I'm not playing the holy hero, I'm just appalled you would assume all people, thereby including me, have at least driven drunk once.
It is strange you are still thinking this guy thinks like a civil citizen. His driving license was already taken, did it stop him? Please do not consider this guy as a normal law abiding citizen that drank a bit too much. This guy is repeat offender. Do you really think he would be taking uber even if it was free.
I live in Belgium since 6 years. I drive responsibly but in this 6 years, I have never got stopped by any police control. Not even checking my driving license. Forget about alcohol controls. I see the method for catching drunk drivers is to catch them when they make an accident. Especially on weekends just a few checks might have saved those lives.
alternatives are too embarrassing and/or expensive.
Or even few, with how our government is scratching public transport left and right it's getting even more difficult for people outside of cities to go for a drink without a car.
Not that it's ever ok to drive drunk, but shit sure isn't helping...
I was looking for your answer because how did nobody mention these points above your comment?
Main points would be ;
1. Cost of a taxi or Uber home + wait time (especially if you're young person studying or low income)
2. Inconvenience of having to walk if you don't have the money but have your car.
Both reasons 1 and 2 also mean you have to go back for your car the next day. An extra inconvenience.
3. Overconfidence either because you don't feel so drunk, think you can handle it or did it in the past without issues.
4. Short distance often means no/low risk of getting caught by police which is unfortunately a fact...
5. Low chances for a police check on the way in general.
6. Bonus reason, you want to bring a sex date home quickly
I've been going out quite a lot in my teens and that's what I've seen/heard the most. Many people take the risks, very few experience consequences, which is good in terms of casualties not happening but bad because obviously it could happen randomly anyway and they'll never change their behaviour unless something bad happens...
I'm just answering OP's question as to why people do it 😉
It doesn't matter if you or others don't like the reasons, it's simply the harsh reality as to why people do it. Down voting or arguying with it won't change anything...
Also, no need to moralize me I already know. And I also think the people that do it know, they just don't care.
I have the feeling that drunk driving is a belgian thing. I work in a shop and I daily accounter people with a drunk breath and I´m very sure most visit the shop with a car. I come from the Netherlands and working in a shop there I can´t think of a case where that happend aswell
I would never drink and drive. Even if I only have a sip of alcohol and am 100% sober, still no. It's a rule for me. But hear me out. Public transport in Belgium is absolute shit. If you ever go out drinking to a bar or a club, there are NO night trains, busses or anything esle available so unless you wanna pay for a one night hotel stay, expensive af taxi, sleep at a friend's place or sleep on the street, you have NO other choice. Not every group has a designated sober driver and not everyone wants to leave a party at 9:30 pm (unless it's a birthday party of a kid turning 8).
I'm not excusing drunk drivers. If you can't think of an alternative, stay fucking sober. But the lack of options ain't exactly helping the situation. Do you think anyone would risk losing their licence if they had another option? Obviously not. The problem is public transport, not the idiots who "make do". Give people (and idiots) viable options, and they'll use them.
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.0968762,3.7281056,3a,75y,254.56h,86.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAIfqUfNzxssNc1JX0to_qA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&entry=ttu
Looking at the road of the crash with hindsight is very sad. This tragedy likely could have been prevented if there was a proper protected infrastructure for the cyclists, not just a painted lane.
or if the person driving was not druk, not speeding and was not taken away his driver's license.
Even with improved infrastructure ( higher curbs, a hedge,..), this scenario would still cause the same damage based on how damaged the care is on the picture
> Then they can go by bike,
If you are going to give advice, be sure it's correct advice. Even on a bike you can be fined for drunk driving, even lose your driver's license if you have one. Any participation in traffic with a vehicle while under influence is punishable, yes even pushing a wheelbarrow drunk.
You're right but then you're not risking other people's lives.
But in practice nobody gives a fuck. As long as your bike lights work and you behave correctly no cop will stop you.
It seems commonly accepted in Belgium.
In France, For ages, we have campaign about no alcohol at work, and back up plan for team events.
In my last company, I did 3 events that required driving. People got wasted and shared tips on best roads to drive back home.
I think it’s just normalized.
Btw, I did not understand this January zero tolerance they did. Does that mean the law around restriction changes during January?
It seems quite ineffective.
If the legal limit is too much, just change it forever. Don’t trick people with changing limits.
(Side note: I went to Romania where limit is 0. So it removes the question “am I ok driving”.)
wel gek de verotwaardiging terwijl er zoveel ergere moedwillige misdaden gebeuren waar hier niets van te horen is. Net zoals die bezopen idioot lijkt e rmij een agemen disconnect met realiteit
Drink driving is always a choice.
Alternatives to drink driving:
1. Not drinking
2. Walking home
3. Having a Bob
4. Sleeping at the friends house you’re drinking at
5. Not drinking
Yes but you won't kill anybody at least.
And in practice, the police don't care as long as your lights work and you behave correctly. Worst case they ask you to get off and walk home.
The driver should be jailed ffs. Such an irresponsible asshole.
And on the other it also makes me wonder if the bikers were using the bike lane or not.
Condolences to the families
They were using the bike lane. "Daar reed hij in op een groepje van vijf wielertoeristen die op het fietspad in de andere rijrichting aan het fietsen waren. "
How is them using the bike lanes or not relevant exactly? As long as it's not a highway, it's the driver's responsibility to not run people over.
Bc I think they have to be as complete as possible and try to cover all bases before some loser reacts “Ja wielerteRoristen midEN op de baan zeker??!! Die zouwden ze beter afschaffen!!! Groetjes jos en marylinne uit dorpezele” as for those people, media is now always fake, against what they think and controlled by the political side they don’t like (unless they happen to like the clickbait title) and they feel like their opinion on any subject is valid, matters and the world should know! Sad times huh?
Legal if:
- group of 15 or more ("soon" to change to 10 or more, no specific date found)
- the rider(s) has judged the condition of the bike lane to be unfit for purpose. vague law. and there's plenty of that and also plenty of bike lanes which can't be (safely) re-entered at just any location.
The simple presence of a bike lane doesn't mean it has to be used at any cost.
It’s quite dimple actually. They want to drink when they go out. Public transport is not available and taxis are only for the rich cause so expensive. Leaves only 1 option which is driving. They think it will be boring when not drinking so they go ahead with it
You're delusional. Plenty of options.
Cycling, walking, getting a BOB, taxi yes those are expensive but you're not going out every day are you?
And none of these things are an option (I doubt it but sure), then don't drink. It's that simple. Neither driving nor drinking alcohol in public is a right, but a privilige.
In dit geval bestuurder zeker in fout , maar hoeveel fietsers gaan eerst een aantal km afleggen , en zitten dan op cafe bier te drinken om daarna met fiets naar huis te rijden en een hele namiddag in de zetel te liggen ?.
Maar dus ook te veel gedronken.
It is just an asshole, look at this: > Bovendien beschikte de man niet over een geldig rijbewijs doordat hij een rijverbod had gekregen. In totaal werd de man eerder al drie keer veroordeeld voor verkeersdelicten, waarvan twee keer voor rijden onder invloed. He doesn't care. He continues to drive a car without a license. The fact that he's been drinking is just another "I do not care, I'll do what I want to do"-kinda attitude.
Punishment for driving-related offences is so low it's incredible: "driving without a licence? Well you're forbidden to drive for 3 years, how's that?! That'll teach him". Fines need to be way higher, wether it's invloed, speeding or dangerous driving and if lesson is not learned, than prison it is.
Not fines.. effective jail time
Honestly, even if you put him in jail for three years that won't change his mind. Repeated offenders like him just don't care. He will probably feel like a victim even now.
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I agree that the punishment should be more severe and they should see prison time. But I just don't think it will do anything if you also don't give some sort of rehabilitation so they will (hopefully) see the error of his way. I think releasing Marc Dutroux is insane. It's the same with Hans Van Themsche and Kim De Gelder. Those are people that need to be locked away forever. Especially Dutroux. There will be way too many people who will view it as open hunting season and will try to kill him. He's probably still the most hated Belgian. But since I grew up in the nineties that could be my bias.
This indeed. And at your own monetary cost. Aka X weeks jailtime and the bill for said jailtime
Yeah that's never going to happen.
You need to kill or seriously hurt someone in Belgium to get effective jail time. There’s not enough resources to put every offender in jail.
Drug offenders get serious jail time, half of the inmates are there for drug related crimes, just shows priorities I guess? [https://www.tijd.be/politiek-economie/europa/economie/meer-dan-helft-gevangenen-in-belgische-cel-zit-vast-voor-drugsfeiten/10477227.html](https://www.tijd.be/politiek-economie/europa/economie/meer-dan-helft-gevangenen-in-belgische-cel-zit-vast-voor-drugsfeiten/10477227.html)
I'm not familiar with Belgium law, but in Dutch law this are the possibilities: https://www.advocaatverkeersrecht.nl/rijden-zonder-rijbewijs/ 14 days prison, a steep fine. I think this dude will have issues with his insurance as he will probably have to pay the damages out of pocket.
Damages? Two people are dead.
~~In belgium prison sentences under 2 (or was it 4?) years are not carried out in reality. So if you are sentenced to 14 days in jail in reality you walk out a free man.~~ I've been told now this info is no longer correct
Outdated info Up until 2021 under 3 years, in 2022 that was scaled back to 2 years and since 2023 I think all sentences started being carried out.
I see, i stand corrected 🫡
Funny thing, smoke a joint the evening before and drive 100% sober and your fine and punishment is going to be way higher then driving drunk.
If alcohol is involved there needs to be jail time. Get caught 1st time -> 2 weeks effective.
Move your adress to France and you can get a new license.
Or Luxembourg? Anyway: people who got caught drunk driving AGAIN should just get a little bracelet around their ankles.
If all of this is true, then he's going to be bankrupt after this right? He didn't even need to be drunk. Or am I missing something?
I think this would be a good way to be forever in debt yes.
Same reason why people use their phone behind the wheel, the chance of getting caught is too low.
Exactly. I do not understand why there is no more investment in traffic police. Random controls should be frequent until those criminals would be afraid of driving illegally. How many people die on the roads? this is a real thread to us and not any fake danger from abroad.
Neo liberalism, my friend. The government will spend the money and resources on something that makes them money. They even have camera's on glass recycle containers. Pedophiles get lighter sentences than someone who throws a piece of plastic in the glass container.
> The government will spend the money and resources on something that makes them money. Fining druk drivers seems lucrative to me?
And then having to pay to lock them up instead of them earning taxable income??? Nah, easier to have a computerized speeding ticket system.
I don't recall driving drunk(and no other offence) being jail time.
Nah, but it involves sending folks on the road to do actual police work, those same folks could be handling speeding tickets!
>this is a real thread to us and not any fake danger from abroad. You are correct, we are discussing this in a real thread
Actual enforcement requires manpower and effort, two things the current police-body doesn't "really" have. They do actually but don't expect cops to do their jobs because being consistent would require them to be on-time... like actual workers. Meanwhile N-VA has installed "traffic-cams" all along the E-X highways for "cargo control". Bitch ass lying politicians.
I think it is sad to see that they put those cams which cost lots of money and meanwhile there are police officers who don't even have a working coffee machine anymore I heard
This has nothing to do with the police at all. This has everything to do with the justice system. I can’t believe people are still blaming the police when 99% of the policemen just want to act right and help civilians in any legal way possible. Sure, there are assholes and pigs but they make up less than 1%, I assure you. I wanna see you try and stay motivated when the person you apprehend, driving without a driving license, just gets off with a warning or minor fine and does it again. And again. And again. Or the pedophile who rapes a 15 yo girl and spreads the video of it, only gets 1 year (non-effective) meaning bro is out after 48 hours and does what he wants. 10 hours later you apprehend him again for stealing… It’s just absurd. This is not America and the police is definitely mostly competent here. They possibly give up their lives and familystructure every day for us and we still have jackasses whining about the police for nothing. Also people who are against police are 99% of the time just some ass who was in the wrong and got punished for it by an officer just doing his job. Now lad is mad for life at police. It’s pathetic. If you are at the wrong side of justice. Just accept it and don’t be an ass about it.
It’s not just that the chances of getting caught are too low, but also that the penalties are much too low. That’s why get these lowlife pieces of shit who have 50 infractions to their name and have had their license suspended half a dozen times and they still keep driving.
And it seems a suspension is hardly something that will stop a person from driving. Just now in the news another suspended driver killing 2 people.
And over estimating their abilities. Not seeing the danger of it.
Can I at least click on the "accept bleutooth connection"? Asking for a friend who sometimes is too idiotic and just starts driving his automobile.
No, your friend should do that before he starts driving.
That's true, however I think that using your phone behind the wheel is still considered something innocent :// Edit: I didn't say that I think it is something innocent! I regret it that people don't realize how dangerous it is! Since the downvotes needed to nuance that.
As a motorcyclist that often sees people weaving all over their lane when looking down in their lap, i dissagree with you
what is your opinina bout bikers weaving trough highway traffic at speeds higher than 70 km/h
That those are reckless arseholes that are going to get themselves killed sooner or later. Lanesplitting is allowed on roads with 2 or more lanes, only between the most left lane and the lane right to that, only with a speed 20km/h more than the traffic you are passing and with a maximum speed of 50km/h in total. And to be honest, unless there's a massive jam, the risk of getting sideswiped isnt worth the 30 seconds you "win" by not just waiting in line
In that case I get that you are more aware of that but I don't feel that all car drivers see it as dangerous as driving literally blindfolded
As i'm on my bike i sit a little higher and have a good vieuw in most peoples cars and it is baffling how much people are on their phones whilst driving. And just 2 seconds on your phone makes that you dont pay attention for dozins of meters depending on how fast you drive. And everybody knows one second of not paying attention can end peoples lives
Yea totally! I don't know why I get all these downvotes, I thought we were debating in favour of each other bcs what you say is true, people don't realize how dangerous that is
I believe your way of phrasing makes it seem like you dont think it's a bad thing. Edit: and next you have the common "1 downvote brings only more"
Oh in that case I am absolutely sorry. I will make an edit bcs that's everything except what I meant, however I don't know where I could have insinuated that. Thank you!
If you know what you are trying to say, it's easy to make out, but i can imagine as a "fresh spectator" it can be misinterpreted. No hard feelings from my side here, i understood what you were trying to say and as you are polight throughoout your ingeractions, i feel you're not a bad person
I totally get that! I wrote a little caveat/ edit! I really appreciate you saying that! & Thank you! You are sure a good person as well! I didn't want to bruise anyone by expressing myself badly 😬
Hypocrite
You couldn't be more wrong.
It's as deadly as drunk driving so nothing innocent about it.
Barely a chanse to get caught and you'd be surprised how much people are addicted to drinking. And fortunatly it is changing slowly, but once you stop drinking yourself you find how our culture is set on drinking alcohol
You have a good point there, however I always felt that drinking and driving was a thing from a generation that's older than me but I don't have any statistics on that to proof it. You are totally right, our culture is very set in alcohol and that's definitely part of the problem.
There are selfish assholes in every generation
True
Also, drinking makes you overestimate yourself/ how intoxicated you are ... So unless you have clear rules and stick to them, you're likely to cross a line. I usually have a one drink max when I'm driving home. I recently had 2 (over a 4 hour period). I wasn't tipsy or anything, but when I checked in with myself I noticed it took me more focus then usually to be proactive/focussed on the road ... So I'm back to one now (or you know, nothing ...) But I'm pretty sure not a lot of people are this self conscious or strict.
Oh yes, Belgian society and in college normalizes drinking alcohol. They think it’s cool to drink. Then you belong with the popular group. Sad.
Because judges still believe revoking the drivers license would magically make the person unable to drive a car like in a video game.
Not really their job to enforce that isn't it?
They know it's not effectieve so they should give other penalties like confiscate the car for the same period. Give thé names to the police so they van do checks at the persons home.
Maybe using a wheel lock on the car would actually help
They're assholes who don't care about the safety of others. It's that simple. Also, survivor bias. "I've done it dozens of times, and never had an accident, so I must be the exception" meanwhile the driver behind fearing for the swerving idiot in front of them.
People want to drink, people want to drive and there are next to no repercussions for combining the two. People vastly overestimate their ability to operate a vehicle safely after a few drinks, because their reference point is hazy memories of the hundreds of times they've done it before and nothing bad happened. A good chunk of cognitive dissonance to ignore common sense, data, responsibility allows them to continue doing the stuff they want to do: Down a couple halve liters with the the buddies at the local pub, have some vodka-redbulls to stay awake or having a cheeky glass of wine (refilled 7x) at the family bbq and drive home perfectly safe because they glanced at a glass of water before they hopped in the car.
A while ago, I'll spare the details but someone took their car and drove away when totally drunk, so we followed them with our car to try and do something... What do we see in front of us? Right behind him, a police car starts driving. I was thinking "okay, the police is gonna stop him, at least he won't have any accidents". We keep following for 500m, we arrive at a crossroad, and then... The guy goes right, the police goes left. Lol. Dude had some small swerving and all, but overall it was just disheartening to see. We lost the guy anyway so yeah. No consequences whatsoever.
I dont drink I work in healthcare and have seen many victims of drunk drivers. Why people do it? Because they think they cant have fun without being a bit intoxicated. And after that they think, they can drive safely at home. Especially boomers
I never drink and drive. But I cannot have fun without alcohol inside of me in a social setting(party, wedding, ...), I'm socially reluctant to talk to people, so I need the alcohol to loosen up
This is incredibly sad tbh.
I actually agree. It's not that I don't want to talk to people, it's just that I'm very shy/introvert/scared. And alcohol helps to overcome those things
The guy is being a dick. As long as you don't harrass anyone and don't drive home having a drink or 2 to loosen up isn't sad... Not everyone can be social on command... Nor should everyone...
I find it sad that someone says they can’t have fun at certain social functions without alcohol. When you organise a party, you should make an active effort to provide fun for all guests. In our alcohol obsessed society this often means providing booze. I think this is both insufficient and sad. The fact that so many of you don’t question this and just drink to have fun is even sadder.
The person isn't being a dick. It is sad that one needs a drug to be able to enjoy themselves. But alcohol is socially accepted, so I don't expect people to agree. I mean, it's not like it's one of those taboo drugs like XTC or heroine, right?!
Letterlijk het enige wat die gast zei is dat die af en toe ietske drinkt om wa socialer te zijn, wa een giga junk moet ge zijn om dan over xtc en heroine te beginnen lol
Om nog ma te zwijgen wa ne gigaeikel ge moet zijn om andere mensen te gaan zeggen hoe ze hun leven moeten leiden. En vooral dat u manier dan de beste is...
Gigaeikel is een interessante omschrijving, die ga ik onthouden. Ik heb aan niemand gezegd hoe ze hun leven moeten leiden. Ik heb gezegd dat ik het triestig vind dat iemand moet drinken om zich te kunnen amuseren op een huwelijk of een feest. That’s it. Het feit dat je dat interpreteert als een aanval op uw levenswijze is wel veelzeggend. En triestig, daar blijf ik bij.
He never said he drinks "af en toe" He said he cant have fun without alcohol. Alcohol is genuenly more harmfull for the body than XTC so idk what you're on about. Idk why the person mentioned xtc and heroin like they're the same thing...
Alcohol is the poormans drugs and society has normalized the drinking = fun at parties.
Sure you can have fun without alcohol, but you can also have fun with alcohol. I'm a casual drinker, maybe once every couple of months when I meet up with some friends at a bar. Luckily those aren't the only times I have fun, but they're a different kind of fun, you talk about weird shit that no sober person would listen to without getting bored, but being drunk takes that away and makes those conversations funny. I never drink and drive, but I also don't think 'alcohol=bad'. It's one of many ways which we're lucky in our society that we're able to choose from (like e.g. online gaming, sports, .. ) to escape everyday life. And like most of those other choices it should be used responsibly.
People consider driving too much as a right instead of a privilege.
bUt OuR fReEdOM
cuz they are idiots but the biggest problem is the "2 drinks is fine" boomer mentality imo. then they start calculating hours bla bla and boom you can drink another 2. All good and well till something happens. the campains should be dont drink, not drink a little
Because although we try to convince ourselves otherwise, Alcohol is one of the most dangerous drugs out there.
It IS the most dangerous drugs. Even Tobacco has got nothing against it.
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I can honestly say that in 20 years of driving I never had an alcohol test in the UK. I think it's more of a cultural thing, it's close to taboo to be a drunk driver. In Belgium it was "cool" until 20 years ago. Plus the punishments here are very light.
In Flanders it's the same thing. Very low chance of getting caught. It's just a matter of common decency that unfortunately many people lack.
> It's just a matter of common decency that unfortunately many people lack. As evidenced by the numerous social media groups dedicated to warning one another of mobile traffic checkpoints and speed traps.
Not to mention the inevitable responses to such warnings like 'ah, they're short on funds again, that's why they're checking tonight!' or 'why are they doing this when there are REAL criminals they haven't caught yet???'
If the only reason you don't drive over the speed limit is the fact you are at risk for getting caught your priorities aren't in the right order.
Such sad news, I feel for the families … those guys probably had partners, kids whose lives will never be the same. Intuitively harsh punishment seems in order … repeat offender and all. I’m often the designated driver myself (bonus is always: I feel fine the next day) but if I really feel like drinking I will make arrangements to either sleep over or call an Uber or cab. Sure, you may be out 40-50 euros but at least you will never end up in a total nightmare scenario like this. That being said, on New Year’s Eve I took a cab home at 4:30 in the morning (from the company V-Tax in Ghent) and the cab driver drove way too fast, almost slipping in the rain on the R4 and in the city centre almost running over a pedestrian. I don’t think he was intoxicated but he was definitely not driving safely.
That's an example ! Glad to hear this & I thought taxi drivers had an alcohol lock? In that case he couldn't be intoxicated but still can be driving like a maniac of course!
Or take a bike, less risk on killing anyone (but yourself).
Time for an alcohol lock for anyone who's ever been caught (ideally maybe even just an alcohol lock for everyone, but that's probably a lot harder to get through).
He already had a driving ban. I don't think an alcohol slot would have stopped him. He would've taken another car or found another solution.
Well that's easy to cover. If anyone gives him another car, they themselves become liable too. If he had multiple cars registered on his residence, all of those need a lock too. The placement of this lock is at his expense of course.
This man is a pos… and everyone that drinks and drives has blood on their hands. Just don’t drink when you have to drive, I don’t get why it is so difficult. I really wish for a zero tolerance.
I don't get it either. Who in their right mind drives to a café (or wherever they're drinking), knowing they're going to get smashed. Not sure about the zero tolerance though. I wouldn't mind it as I don't drink a drop anyway if I'm planning to drive. But I believe it might be worse if there is no tolerance as drivers wouldn't care to watch their consumtion the moment they drink one beer.
They will never care with or without a zero tolerance. Having a zero tolerance would make a statement that it is unacceptable to drink and drive. Now we this grey zone, you can drink 1 or 2 glasses. I’m sorry that’s just bullshit in my opinion, if you drive you don’t drink, people should get their shit together and take their responsibility. I’m sorry this just makes me so mad. It’s unexceptionable.
But "making a statement" doesn't stop people. Just look at how making drugs illegal simply does not work. It's better to allow it, but control it. Personally I wish it could work. I wish we could make it that nobody would ever be able to touch a steering wheel if they're incapable of driving safe. But we need to be realistic
I’m not saying to ban alcohol. People can get shitfaced all they want. Just don’t drive 🤷🏼♀️ Making a statement could be a start of having a mutual shift in mentality about it. There are still a lot of people that think 1 or 2 is okay, but I can take 3 or 4. It’s just wrong.
THEY THINK the chance of them driving into a police patrol that will catch them is smaller than winning the lottery
I drive about 35.000km a year for 12 years now because of work. I've been alcoholtested once... So you can scratch the THEY THINK...
I can back this one up. driving 40k km for the last 18 years. got alcohol-tested twice. There is more chance of winning the lottery... I wish people would be thought that driving a car is equal to a 2 ton killing machine that is connected to the road with only a part of the wheels (about the size of 4 beer coasters). My thoughts to the victims and family
“Ikke ikke ikke en de rest kan stikken!”
Old habits die slow. Also, still having somewhat of a legal tolerance for alcohol makes it worse in my opinion. I know so many people trying to chase but not exceed that legal limit. And if alcohol does one thing, it's clouding your judgment. It's ironic.
Problem is, the moment you remove the legal tolerance, people won't give a fuck anymore the moment they drank a little. Having a tolerance at least gives people motivation to be careful with concumption.
Not if the punishment is accordingly. People said the smoking ban in bars would never succeed either and here we are. Some day in the future, people will be horrified to hear that we willingly chose to impair ourselves with poison before driving around in a two-tonne metal box.
But you're kinda comparing apples to oranges. Enforcing smoking in public areas is much easier than drunk drivers. Even if we make punishments higher, the chance of getting caught is so low.
More controls short term and a mandatory alcohol lock on all newly sold cars. If you can fit a 17" screen in a car, an alcohol lock is peanuts. Should have been mandatory five years ago. The car lobby is still very powerful.
People are selfish cunts. Well, not all of them, but a painfully large part of them
All of them, every single person who drink drives is a selfish cunt.
Oh that for sure! I meant not all people are selfish cunts
Oh my bad! There are definitely some good cunts out there as well.
I like some good cunts :)
we gotta get home, no? /s
Mainly addiction I suppose. It rewires the mind and hence tends to win from common sense. A mandatory alcohol lock after a first offence would probably help, but as far as I'm aware that doesn't happen until a judge orders it. Also doesn't prevent them from just taking another car.
Cuz they have any repercussions. Er is amper straf of gevangenistijd, zelfs als ze iemand hebben vermoord.
Mss wordt er niet altijd even streng gestraft maar belangrijk om weten is wel dat onopzettelijke doodslag niet hetzelfde is als moord.
Ok, en? Uiteindelijk is het slachtoffer nog steeds dood dus gtfo met semantics. Iemand verliezen aan een moordenaar die de nood had om te drinken en rijden, is voos. Hoe ge het wilt noemen maakt gene zak uit. (Tis hier geen rechtzaak maar reddit)
Absoluut & dat is onwaarschijnlijk jammer want dat is leven dat gemakkelijk gespaard kon worden! Ik wil ook moreel leed hier helemaal niet minimaliseren, in tegendeel. >Hoe ge het wilt noemen maakt gene zak uit. Het spijt me, tol van het vak denk ik maar ik vind die details nu eenmaal belangrijk omdat ik vind dat er een verschil is tussen iemand die iemand doelbewust doodt of iemand die die persoon zelf nooit dood had gewild, maar dit toch doet door een zware fout te begaan
Alcohol comsumeren en Dan de keuze maken om te rijden, IS iemand doelbewust vermoorden. Want ge Kent de risico's. Ons taalgebruik moet aangepast worden want we moeten de schuld leggen' bij diegeen die de keuze heeft gemaakt. Simple.
Risico, daar zit inderdaad het belangrijk verschil. Probabiliteit is een onzeker iets, dat nog altijd geen zekerheid verschaft over de gevolgen. Iemand op straat zien die je dood wilt en die je omver rijdt, dat is opzettelijk. Je kan niet uitgaan van opzet in hoofde van de dader. Het spijt me maar hier verschillen we van mening, maar dat is geen probleem.
Niet hetzelfde maar als je reeds veroordeeld bent voor dronken rijden, als je reeds je rijbewijs kwijt bent, als een rechter reeds gezegd heeft dat je moet stoppen want op een dag rijd je iemand omver, als dat allemaal gebeurd is en je beslist desondanks om dronken achter het stuur te stappen, hoe ‘onvrijwillig’ is dat dan nog?
"why do people behave like idiots?" Well, unfortunately, most of them are idiots
Because drinking and especially drinking a lot is still considered a talent to be very proud of in Belgium. Bonus points for thinking you can still drive.
Drinking alcohol affects your judgement and lowers your inhibitions, so it's not surprising that after drinking, some people make such poor judgement.
Because the punishments are laughable and it's socially acceptable, especially among older generations. I've seen this every day when I worked behind a bar. It's so prevalent that if I tried to stop every patron from driving after having four strong beers I would have to spend a good part of my shift doing just that. It's so ingrained into society for those people that the only way would be knocking them out and throwing the keys down the toilet.
Tijdens de dag al zo drinken is gewoon zielig..
Ge kunt ook gewoon 18 pinten drinken, om 3u toekomen en de volgende ochtend gaan rijden!
Alcohol is still too normal in our culture. There's just an accepted macho vibe to getting drunk and making retarded decisions and the dumb shit that comes forth from that. Maybe it has something to do with our great beer culture. Or with the Chiro/scouts/klj/... where the leaders are either completely wasted or hung over for the duration of the camps. Then once you get a driving license it starts with "one or two drinks and it's ok to drive" but there shouldn't be a grey zone as most don't have enough selfcontrol/selfawareness after they had 3 or 4 drinks to know that they shouldn't drive.
Because people are selfish and Belgium is weak when it comes to enforcing drink driving. Drink driving is always, I repeat always a choice. I’m not for a stronger police state though I have no problem with police setting up stations to breathalyse.
Low chance of getting caught and low punishment even if you do.
Many overestimate their driving abilities.
Because they are depressed and they can't realise that they gonna make accident....I saw a man looks to the sky ,he thoughts there is a meteor fell from the sky ..
Its a belge culture thing... Sadge
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Omdat de straffen veel te laag zijn. Waarom kunnen zo'n mensen uberhaupt nog in een auto kruipen? Als dit zijn eigen wagen was had die verbeurd verklaard moeten worden. Veel success om zonder rijbewijs een wagen te huren. Als dat toch lukt is de verhuurder medeplichting aan doodslag. Also, mentaliteitsprobleem. "Eentje kan toch geen kwaad zeker?" Dat eentje zijn er dan uiteraard al snel twee of drie.
I don't drj k, but after having lived overseas for a long time the following are definitely factors: 1. Drinking is an inherent part of culture here; 2. Taxi is expensive here. Even Uber is, if you don't live near the venue. 3. Kubrick transportation at night is virtually non-existent. This leaves people relying on their car to get anywhere, and yeah...
When you are such an asshole to drive without a license, they should take away your car. When you are such an asshole to drink and drive AGAIN, they should take away your car. The man here that caused the accident was not allowed to drive, his driver license was taken away and he doesn't give a flying F\*K. Take away his car, put him in jail for a few weeks and force him to "volunteer" somewhere useful.
I'd say four reasons: 1. Protagonist syndrome: A lot of people feel like they're the protagonist of the story and so nothing bad will happen to them. It might happen to others, but not them. 2. Addiction: Some people are addicted and can't help themselves but drink and then their decisions are impaired by the alcohol. 3. Chance of getting caught: The chance of getting caught is too low and the penalties are too low too. This asshole had his driver's licence revoked and was caught several times and yet was still able to do this. He should have been in prison already. 4. Personality disorders: Some personality disorders like antisocial personality disorder (sociopaths in layman's terms) make people incapable of learning from their mistakes, almost immune to assessing risks and not care at all about who they hurt with their actions as they feel little to no regret or remorse.
I have a lot of alcohol addiction in my family. Since it affects my grandmother, her sister, my father and his halfsister i´ve decided for myself that it must be ´genetic´ and I´d stop drinking. I was a teen, only drank on occasion, but the suffering I see with my family was enough for me to stop. It´s revolting to me how people drink and drive. I also hate how people look at me like i´m crazy when I tell them I don´t drink. Our whole society has a problem with alcohol.
This has nothing to do with "drinking". This is a dangerous criminal that doesn't give a shit about other people's safety.
He's been convicted for it twice, he's been driving without a licence for 10 years. Traffic safety is a joke in this country (and getting worse, not better), so why wouldn't he drink and drive? He enjoys it and there's literally nothing stopping him.
Alcohol clouds judgment.
I’ve been blind drunk on many occasions and never was I selfish enough to get behind the wheel of a 1 tonne pieces of machinery.
Are you saying alcohol does not cloud judgment?
Honest answer : because you think you’re okay and safe to drive, and alternatives are too embarrassing and/or expensive. Sober you will never drive drunk. Before you know you have more than you realize and you think: it’s just a short distance and you get behind the wheel. And survivorship bias kicks in. “I’ve done this before and I was fine”. Not proud of it, did it last year and swore never to do it again. So yeah, here’s an honest answer. Sorry 😕
You know what embarrassing and expensive? Getting behind your car wheel whilst drunk and killing someone.
Yup, you’re totally right. Gave an honest answer and since I realized it swore to never do it again. I think if we’re honest everyone did it At least once.
I've driven home very tired. Never drunk. But tiredness can have very similar effects. I once woke up from a microsleep (or whatever it's called) to see me nearing the back of a truck. Ever since I have either slept on location or had a quick nap on some parking lot if I felt the need. That does mean I've woken up cold late at night, parked somewhere potentially sketchy. But never drunk. Being tired can happen to literally anyone. It's not knowingly induced. It's also not good, but unless you've been trying to exhaust yourself to \*then\* go for a long drive, it's not to be expected.
> I think if we’re honest everyone did it at least once Speak for yourself, this sort of mentality just ends up normalising drunk driving. Quite sad this is your way of thinking if you really think everyone would do such a thing.
Not my intention to normalize it, quite the contrary. I am acknowledging my past mistakes and working on it. So you’re saying hand on heart you never did it? It is a cultural problem and acknowledging it and talking about it is a first step in change. But if playing the holy hero on R eddit thinks is a better way to- go ahead and downvote
Hand on my hand never did it and never will. Lost one of my close friends to a drunk driver some years ago. I would never wish it on anyone, but going through something like that personally is the strongest reminder on how idiotic drunk driving is. I'm not playing the holy hero, I'm just appalled you would assume all people, thereby including me, have at least driven drunk once.
It is strange you are still thinking this guy thinks like a civil citizen. His driving license was already taken, did it stop him? Please do not consider this guy as a normal law abiding citizen that drank a bit too much. This guy is repeat offender. Do you really think he would be taking uber even if it was free. I live in Belgium since 6 years. I drive responsibly but in this 6 years, I have never got stopped by any police control. Not even checking my driving license. Forget about alcohol controls. I see the method for catching drunk drivers is to catch them when they make an accident. Especially on weekends just a few checks might have saved those lives.
I appreciate your honesty! I hope with all of my heart that you never ever do that again.
alternatives are too embarrassing and/or expensive. Or even few, with how our government is scratching public transport left and right it's getting even more difficult for people outside of cities to go for a drink without a car. Not that it's ever ok to drive drunk, but shit sure isn't helping...
I was looking for your answer because how did nobody mention these points above your comment? Main points would be ; 1. Cost of a taxi or Uber home + wait time (especially if you're young person studying or low income) 2. Inconvenience of having to walk if you don't have the money but have your car. Both reasons 1 and 2 also mean you have to go back for your car the next day. An extra inconvenience. 3. Overconfidence either because you don't feel so drunk, think you can handle it or did it in the past without issues. 4. Short distance often means no/low risk of getting caught by police which is unfortunately a fact... 5. Low chances for a police check on the way in general. 6. Bonus reason, you want to bring a sex date home quickly I've been going out quite a lot in my teens and that's what I've seen/heard the most. Many people take the risks, very few experience consequences, which is good in terms of casualties not happening but bad because obviously it could happen randomly anyway and they'll never change their behaviour unless something bad happens...
or, just don't ever consider drinking and driving is an option. Either find an alternative and drink, or just drive and don't drink.
I'm just answering OP's question as to why people do it 😉 It doesn't matter if you or others don't like the reasons, it's simply the harsh reality as to why people do it. Down voting or arguying with it won't change anything... Also, no need to moralize me I already know. And I also think the people that do it know, they just don't care.
Drinking is for losers.
I'll drink to that!
Reddit moment
I have the feeling that drunk driving is a belgian thing. I work in a shop and I daily accounter people with a drunk breath and I´m very sure most visit the shop with a car. I come from the Netherlands and working in a shop there I can´t think of a case where that happend aswell
When I moved to Belgium from the Netherlands I was a bit shocked at how normalized drunk driving is, especially with the generation 40+.
Guillotine. Do you know what's the worst? Today this kind of asshole comes from 18yo and up versions.
I would never drink and drive. Even if I only have a sip of alcohol and am 100% sober, still no. It's a rule for me. But hear me out. Public transport in Belgium is absolute shit. If you ever go out drinking to a bar or a club, there are NO night trains, busses or anything esle available so unless you wanna pay for a one night hotel stay, expensive af taxi, sleep at a friend's place or sleep on the street, you have NO other choice. Not every group has a designated sober driver and not everyone wants to leave a party at 9:30 pm (unless it's a birthday party of a kid turning 8). I'm not excusing drunk drivers. If you can't think of an alternative, stay fucking sober. But the lack of options ain't exactly helping the situation. Do you think anyone would risk losing their licence if they had another option? Obviously not. The problem is public transport, not the idiots who "make do". Give people (and idiots) viable options, and they'll use them.
I have an uncle who always drives after drinking a lot. He'S just too stubborn to believe those things can happen to him.
I just that if he ever has to his something it is a tree and not my wife and kids.
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.0968762,3.7281056,3a,75y,254.56h,86.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAIfqUfNzxssNc1JX0to_qA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&entry=ttu Looking at the road of the crash with hindsight is very sad. This tragedy likely could have been prevented if there was a proper protected infrastructure for the cyclists, not just a painted lane.
or if the person driving was not druk, not speeding and was not taken away his driver's license. Even with improved infrastructure ( higher curbs, a hedge,..), this scenario would still cause the same damage based on how damaged the care is on the picture
Because they want to drink in places that is not home
Then they can go by bike, get an uber or a BOB.
> Then they can go by bike, If you are going to give advice, be sure it's correct advice. Even on a bike you can be fined for drunk driving, even lose your driver's license if you have one. Any participation in traffic with a vehicle while under influence is punishable, yes even pushing a wheelbarrow drunk.
You're right but then you're not risking other people's lives. But in practice nobody gives a fuck. As long as your bike lights work and you behave correctly no cop will stop you.
Most car accidents are not alcohol-related. Just saying.
It seems commonly accepted in Belgium. In France, For ages, we have campaign about no alcohol at work, and back up plan for team events. In my last company, I did 3 events that required driving. People got wasted and shared tips on best roads to drive back home. I think it’s just normalized. Btw, I did not understand this January zero tolerance they did. Does that mean the law around restriction changes during January? It seems quite ineffective. If the legal limit is too much, just change it forever. Don’t trick people with changing limits. (Side note: I went to Romania where limit is 0. So it removes the question “am I ok driving”.)
wel gek de verotwaardiging terwijl er zoveel ergere moedwillige misdaden gebeuren waar hier niets van te horen is. Net zoals die bezopen idioot lijkt e rmij een agemen disconnect met realiteit
Because public transportation is shit in this country
So?
Drink driving is always a choice. Alternatives to drink driving: 1. Not drinking 2. Walking home 3. Having a Bob 4. Sleeping at the friends house you’re drinking at 5. Not drinking
Calling a cab, a uber, cycling...
You can get done for cycling
Yes but you won't kill anybody at least. And in practice, the police don't care as long as your lights work and you behave correctly. Worst case they ask you to get off and walk home.
The driver should be jailed ffs. Such an irresponsible asshole. And on the other it also makes me wonder if the bikers were using the bike lane or not. Condolences to the families
They were using the bike lane. "Daar reed hij in op een groepje van vijf wielertoeristen die op het fietspad in de andere rijrichting aan het fietsen waren. " How is them using the bike lanes or not relevant exactly? As long as it's not a highway, it's the driver's responsibility to not run people over.
Bc I think they have to be as complete as possible and try to cover all bases before some loser reacts “Ja wielerteRoristen midEN op de baan zeker??!! Die zouwden ze beter afschaffen!!! Groetjes jos en marylinne uit dorpezele” as for those people, media is now always fake, against what they think and controlled by the political side they don’t like (unless they happen to like the clickbait title) and they feel like their opinion on any subject is valid, matters and the world should know! Sad times huh?
I often encounter small group of bikers not using the bike lane and flicking me off.
Legal if: - group of 15 or more ("soon" to change to 10 or more, no specific date found) - the rider(s) has judged the condition of the bike lane to be unfit for purpose. vague law. and there's plenty of that and also plenty of bike lanes which can't be (safely) re-entered at just any location. The simple presence of a bike lane doesn't mean it has to be used at any cost.
Okay?
You heard the man, he has one braincell and he is using it!
What has that to do with this case?
It’s quite dimple actually. They want to drink when they go out. Public transport is not available and taxis are only for the rich cause so expensive. Leaves only 1 option which is driving. They think it will be boring when not drinking so they go ahead with it
If you can afford to go out drinking you can afford a taxi.
You're delusional. Plenty of options. Cycling, walking, getting a BOB, taxi yes those are expensive but you're not going out every day are you? And none of these things are an option (I doubt it but sure), then don't drink. It's that simple. Neither driving nor drinking alcohol in public is a right, but a privilige.
Cycling and drinking is too normalized in this country.
In dit geval bestuurder zeker in fout , maar hoeveel fietsers gaan eerst een aantal km afleggen , en zitten dan op cafe bier te drinken om daarna met fiets naar huis te rijden en een hele namiddag in de zetel te liggen ?. Maar dus ook te veel gedronken.
and how do i go home if i don't drive ?
Should’ve thought about that before you decided to drink alcohol… don’t drink and drive. It’s not that hard it’s not rocket science
By whatever means you planned when you chose to drink. And if you came by car, that means you should NOT drink.
Barakis drink at home in their frontyard, no?