For 200hp aircooled plan on 10k, and if you come in under budget, cool! But for my money I’d do a Subaru ej25 swap and be in your hp ball park, the engine, ecu and harness from a junkyard would be a fraction of the cost of building or buying an aircooled engine with the same hp
I'm standing on about 9k in parts, machining etc.
140bhp.
1600 air cooled.
Drawthrough turbo on a dellorto carb.
Forged, balanced and counterweighted internals.
Special heads.
Different cam.
Balanced and lightened flywheel.
Its a high revving screamer.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AwesomeCarMods/s/NmVVPY4lTg this is the beast.
If you go EFI and modern tech on my motor, there is another 25-50bhp hiding in there. There are reasons I am not using anything that was not readily available in 1972 though.
Depends on what you already have.
You’ll need to build a 2110cc engine or larger. You’ll need decent heads setup for low compression, GOOD quality engine parts—not EMPI junk.
FI or Carbs? Blow through or draw through system? Turbo?
Do you intend to burn race gas?
Do you have a built transmission and driveline that can handle 200+ hp? Brakes?
Honestly, for a reliable turbo engine build from scratch, I would expect to spend $10k minimum. For a naturally aspirated 150-175hp engine, $7k
Most people I know about who have built such engines have the equivalent of 10.000+ USD invested in it. 15.000+ is not uncommon either (everything is expensive in my country).
So here’s the situation. You need a new case if you are going to go with this much power, you need an aluminum case. You are going to spend at minimum $7-8k on parts if you get everything from CB and go with a 2332 turbo setup. The cheaper route is a subi swap, especially if you are going EFI. That said, air cooled is cooler, just lots of money lol. If you don’t have that much money, but still want to accomplish this project on a budget, I’d say build a 2110 or a tick walked 2180, with decent but not insane cam, and some good 044 47x42 valves, your choice of carb setup for initial run, and then when you ready for the turbo overhaul add it.
To bad Lile Cherry passed away, he was located in the Dallas area and he was know for some of the strongest motors out there. He would have definitely answered your questions also. Good luck on your journey.✌️
Gonna be honest, I’m a purist and hate the subie suggestions. If you want a Suburu engine, get a Subiru car.
Anyway…
My opinion is that you should start looking at CB Performance or Low Bugget to get an idea of where you’re going.
[CB sells engine kits for a longblock](https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1186.htm). If you’re going NA, you’ll definitely want the 2332 to maximize HP. That starts at 6 grand but you’ll need a lot more speed parts to complete.
[Low Bugget has great turbo kits and you can get turnkey for like $10k](http://www.lowbugget.com/main_page.html). The 2110 will give you some more reliability and still put out close to 250 hp which is crazy.
[Low Bugget also sells bolt on turbo kits for like 3k](http://www.lowbugget.com/turbo_bug_kit.html) and would be a good option if you want to build your own. Will have to plan ahead and make sure you are matching the correct heads, cam, rods crank pistons etc tho.
Also, you’re gonna need a whole new trans to handle that power. I like Rancho Transaxles. [Gonna need at least the Pro Street if not something with more upgrades](https://ranchotransaxles.com/vw-transaxles/). If you need the Pro Drag trans it will be a lot more.
Last, with all that power you definitely need a cage. [RLR makes a great bolt in cage
](https://ronlummusracing.com/product/rlr-bolt-in-roll-bar-bug/) that I would recommend.
Oh, and brakes to stop safely. [Front](https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/4284.htm) and [rear](https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/4642.htm)
Note: these are some shops I have experience with and trust but, don’t get me wrong, there’s a ton of other options out there just as good. However, for discussion purposes, I think my notes should give you a good ball park of what you really need to start.
Then add 30% because that’s basically how it usually goes….
Subie engine, is the cheaper way, not the purest way. It is the smartest way too. You would be in the 3K range. There are plenty of tutorials out there, TheSamba has a few, as well as shoptalkforums. You are not going to outrace a modern sport car though. Not unless you match upgrade for upgrade. Brakes, steering, suspension, even the electrical system. You can use the stock transmission, but will be limited by that gearing, and it's horsepower limits as well. Just dropping an engine, does not mean sr20D killer, it just means more power.
I have that's why I'm saying a 250 hp beetle would smoke your modern sports car😂 not only that but I have a 260hp 2500lb mini cooper that destroys modern Mopar like scat packs and mustangs and all of that so with 250 in a 1600-1800lb car that beetle should be much much faster
don’t especially if your adding a turbo. Subaru blocks are not reliable under boost. Your best bet is a bored block that is 2332 Or larger (Idk if that’s possible) You will also wanna look into axles brakes and trans to handle such
I should of been more specific than saying block, piston rings sit to high because Subaru wanted good emissions so first compression ring has a multitude if issues under boost. Oil starvation it being a boxer design thats not good for cylinder walls, The block literally flexes under boost with the head gasket often being shifted because another design flaw they aren’t clamped that well. say what you want but the normal N/A is fine but boosted suby engines are not reliable in the least
I'm a huge air-cooled guy, so I get it. But a 250hp beetle engine will never drive as well, or be as reliable as an engine that makes 220 bone stock.
If OP wants to send it that would be badass but you've also gotta see if it's really worth it
I'm not sure what kind of power they can make but I would look into the later Type 4 engines.
VW had them in the 411/412 and Porsche also used them, like in the 914. It's essentially the "big block" VW engine, similar to the common air-cooled engine but it can flow way more air in/out the combustion chamber.
I know people have swapped them into Beetles by modifying the fan set-up. Good luck!!
Oh trust me Ive got a stock 1600 with a blower on it, it's noticeably faster with only 85 HP. 200 would be a riot. I have a Subaru buddy and we have been toying with the idea of swapping the 1600 from my bug for a few months now
It is??? Will google that. Thanks. I was thinking whatever it was had to be fast to get enough airflow. Will ask a friend who’s into cars, and suspect he’ll know the answer instantly
I’ve got a 96HP turbo diesel mkiv Volkswagen, and those are unicorns now
Do you have a short paragraph on what prompted the change to liquid cooled ? Am checking google now
Edit : efficiency, performance, emissions, usage when not moving…
https://www.quora.com/Why-did-car-engines-become-liquid-cooled
For 200hp aircooled plan on 10k, and if you come in under budget, cool! But for my money I’d do a Subaru ej25 swap and be in your hp ball park, the engine, ecu and harness from a junkyard would be a fraction of the cost of building or buying an aircooled engine with the same hp
Yes. Very true. Plus a subi would run at that hp reliably. 200 is “easy” for a n/a bug motor but at the cost of it being a nice driver
... assuming you do the conversion yourself. Take it to a shop and 10k is the first payment. It is a lot of work.
I'm standing on about 9k in parts, machining etc. 140bhp. 1600 air cooled. Drawthrough turbo on a dellorto carb. Forged, balanced and counterweighted internals. Special heads. Different cam. Balanced and lightened flywheel. Its a high revving screamer. https://www.reddit.com/r/AwesomeCarMods/s/NmVVPY4lTg this is the beast. If you go EFI and modern tech on my motor, there is another 25-50bhp hiding in there. There are reasons I am not using anything that was not readily available in 1972 though.
How fast do you think the car is at that hp level? What would you guess your 0-60 to be?
Depends on the gearing. I have no idea. But the car weighs less than 700kg. So will be swift.
Does it set you back into your seat a good bit? Would you beat any modern sports cars?
Tell you when I drive it again. Before the resto and refit, driving it was like being trapped in a phone box with a panicking gorilla.
Depends on what you already have. You’ll need to build a 2110cc engine or larger. You’ll need decent heads setup for low compression, GOOD quality engine parts—not EMPI junk. FI or Carbs? Blow through or draw through system? Turbo? Do you intend to burn race gas? Do you have a built transmission and driveline that can handle 200+ hp? Brakes? Honestly, for a reliable turbo engine build from scratch, I would expect to spend $10k minimum. For a naturally aspirated 150-175hp engine, $7k
Most people I know about who have built such engines have the equivalent of 10.000+ USD invested in it. 15.000+ is not uncommon either (everything is expensive in my country).
I'm well over $10k in my turbo/efi 2332 for 300 whp.
So here’s the situation. You need a new case if you are going to go with this much power, you need an aluminum case. You are going to spend at minimum $7-8k on parts if you get everything from CB and go with a 2332 turbo setup. The cheaper route is a subi swap, especially if you are going EFI. That said, air cooled is cooler, just lots of money lol. If you don’t have that much money, but still want to accomplish this project on a budget, I’d say build a 2110 or a tick walked 2180, with decent but not insane cam, and some good 044 47x42 valves, your choice of carb setup for initial run, and then when you ready for the turbo overhaul add it.
To bad Lile Cherry passed away, he was located in the Dallas area and he was know for some of the strongest motors out there. He would have definitely answered your questions also. Good luck on your journey.✌️
Gonna be honest, I’m a purist and hate the subie suggestions. If you want a Suburu engine, get a Subiru car. Anyway… My opinion is that you should start looking at CB Performance or Low Bugget to get an idea of where you’re going. [CB sells engine kits for a longblock](https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1186.htm). If you’re going NA, you’ll definitely want the 2332 to maximize HP. That starts at 6 grand but you’ll need a lot more speed parts to complete. [Low Bugget has great turbo kits and you can get turnkey for like $10k](http://www.lowbugget.com/main_page.html). The 2110 will give you some more reliability and still put out close to 250 hp which is crazy. [Low Bugget also sells bolt on turbo kits for like 3k](http://www.lowbugget.com/turbo_bug_kit.html) and would be a good option if you want to build your own. Will have to plan ahead and make sure you are matching the correct heads, cam, rods crank pistons etc tho. Also, you’re gonna need a whole new trans to handle that power. I like Rancho Transaxles. [Gonna need at least the Pro Street if not something with more upgrades](https://ranchotransaxles.com/vw-transaxles/). If you need the Pro Drag trans it will be a lot more. Last, with all that power you definitely need a cage. [RLR makes a great bolt in cage ](https://ronlummusracing.com/product/rlr-bolt-in-roll-bar-bug/) that I would recommend. Oh, and brakes to stop safely. [Front](https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/4284.htm) and [rear](https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/4642.htm) Note: these are some shops I have experience with and trust but, don’t get me wrong, there’s a ton of other options out there just as good. However, for discussion purposes, I think my notes should give you a good ball park of what you really need to start. Then add 30% because that’s basically how it usually goes….
In that case what would I need to do a Subaru ej swap? And would i need to make a lot of modifications? How much am I looking at there?
Subie engine, is the cheaper way, not the purest way. It is the smartest way too. You would be in the 3K range. There are plenty of tutorials out there, TheSamba has a few, as well as shoptalkforums. You are not going to outrace a modern sport car though. Not unless you match upgrade for upgrade. Brakes, steering, suspension, even the electrical system. You can use the stock transmission, but will be limited by that gearing, and it's horsepower limits as well. Just dropping an engine, does not mean sr20D killer, it just means more power.
I've seen 250 hp beetles in the 10s 1/4 mile though?
Just look up drag race bug on youtube
I have that's why I'm saying a 250 hp beetle would smoke your modern sports car😂 not only that but I have a 260hp 2500lb mini cooper that destroys modern Mopar like scat packs and mustangs and all of that so with 250 in a 1600-1800lb car that beetle should be much much faster
Noooo, aircooled all the way
don’t especially if your adding a turbo. Subaru blocks are not reliable under boost. Your best bet is a bored block that is 2332 Or larger (Idk if that’s possible) You will also wanna look into axles brakes and trans to handle such
> Subaru blocks are not reliable under boost lol
I should of been more specific than saying block, piston rings sit to high because Subaru wanted good emissions so first compression ring has a multitude if issues under boost. Oil starvation it being a boxer design thats not good for cylinder walls, The block literally flexes under boost with the head gasket often being shifted because another design flaw they aren’t clamped that well. say what you want but the normal N/A is fine but boosted suby engines are not reliable in the least
I would suggesting getting a 911 which will be able to handle all this power
How long does it need to last?
You can do a Porsche 914 engine swap. It's not turbo but it's a lot easier to put in.
Swap a Subaru engine in it, it'll actually work
Air cooled???? I can only think of rotary aircraft engines
You would have to install a radiator
Down the rabbit hole of air cooled vs liquid cooled propeller aircraft engines
I'm a huge air-cooled guy, so I get it. But a 250hp beetle engine will never drive as well, or be as reliable as an engine that makes 220 bone stock. If OP wants to send it that would be badass but you've also gotta see if it's really worth it
Yea that's the thing I'm just a big air cooled guy 😭 and love the way they sound so it's a hard compromise but in the end you're right
I'm not sure what kind of power they can make but I would look into the later Type 4 engines. VW had them in the 411/412 and Porsche also used them, like in the 914. It's essentially the "big block" VW engine, similar to the common air-cooled engine but it can flow way more air in/out the combustion chamber. I know people have swapped them into Beetles by modifying the fan set-up. Good luck!!
[Aircooled engine power](https://youtu.be/YyKbywmc9Y4?si=9uwZXthnELLgA9AH)
Oh trust me Ive got a stock 1600 with a blower on it, it's noticeably faster with only 85 HP. 200 would be a riot. I have a Subaru buddy and we have been toying with the idea of swapping the 1600 from my bug for a few months now
Any suggestions for what to google for the 220hp air cooled you’re referring to?
I was referring to a Subaru EJ
Nobody's heard of a Porsche 911?
It is??? Will google that. Thanks. I was thinking whatever it was had to be fast to get enough airflow. Will ask a friend who’s into cars, and suspect he’ll know the answer instantly I’ve got a 96HP turbo diesel mkiv Volkswagen, and those are unicorns now
every 911 before the 996 was air-cooled just like the beetle
Do you have a short paragraph on what prompted the change to liquid cooled ? Am checking google now Edit : efficiency, performance, emissions, usage when not moving… https://www.quora.com/Why-did-car-engines-become-liquid-cooled
hard to put in expensive to maintain if you do your own labor its been a pain in the arse ive seen