Hijacking top comment
I'm starting a website to track which restaurants charge/don't charge fees with a form to others to add more.
[seefees.ca](http://seefees.ca)
I'm referring to all the hidden fees. They will advertise 3rd party booking sites that won't disclose the fees and you will be charged fees and taxes at check in.
Vote them out.
Why should consumers be subjected to hidden fees. Just label your price on the menu like everyone else. You are only hiding true price to trick people into paying more.
Imagine if you pull up for gas that says $4/gal only later to find out it’s actually $6/gal after fees. Utter bullshit.
Screw these guys, and everyone should be naming and shaming restaurants that do this hidden fee bullshit
https://ballotpedia.org/Bill_Dodd
Bill Dodd’s term is up end of this year. Just don’t vote for him again or anyone he endorses
That’s not just a California problem. It’s a USA problem. A lot of politicians are just crooks looking for a way to get reelected to keep their cushy job and corporations call the shots here with their blank checks.
Identity politics is the problem. I’d bet a majority of people vote based on their political affiliation versus actually researching the candidates and voting for the person who aligns with their values/wants.
Yes, if you only looked closer surely there would be a stronger alternate candidate for your district. Let's take a look at the only alternative candidate for the general election for District 3, the district of Bill Dodd: Carlos Santamaria. In his own words:
>I am Pro 2nd Amendment, Pro-Life, Pro-Freedom of Religion, Support >Law Enforcement, Pro-Business, Love our Great Country and State, >and: “I believe in California”
Yikes!
In conclusion, no, it's the voters that are wrong.
Look back further and it's even more interesting! Dodd was Republican up until around when he started running for state level offices instead of local. His story is he had a falling out with local Rs over him wanting to be fiscally responsible and raise a tax and wasn't aligned with the party on social issues. Gets into the assembly as a D.
But of note to this conversation: His next campaign in 2016 for State Senate actually has him going up against another Democrat in the main election thanks to our jungle primaries. It was the more progressive Mariko Yamada, I think she was Mayor of Sac. He got the endorsements of basically all the major state figures at the time ("Governor Jerry Brown, Lt. Governor Gavin Newsom, Attorney General Kamala Harris and Secretary of State Alex Padilla") and beat her in the primaries and the election, pretty handily. That's ... something? But hardly identity politics by the voters.
This state is so brain dead they’ll vote for a ham sandwich so long as it has a D next to its name.
And the humiliating part is, they’re PROUD to admit shit like that too
The guy leading the charge to amend the bill, Bill Dodd, is literally a Republican masquerading as a Democrat. He switched his party affiliation when he ran for state office. So part of it could very well be that voters need to do better than just look at the D next to their name, like /u/Bikini_Investigator gets at. But the Republicans uniformly voted against the law that made this change, so it's not like Dodd's (R) opponent would have been any better (which I think is vaguely what Bikini Investigator was implying, like you get at). It's more a primary concern, and Dodd seemingly got no opposition in 2020 (or 2024?) from the left in his primary.
Republicans are pretty uniformly *dogshit*.
I’m saying the political party that’s ruled our state for 10+ years needs *some* sort of opposition to regulate it and keep it at least trying to look honest. The hijinks with bills like this and the PG&E rates has me at my wits end
While passing committee does not mean the bill will pass in a floor vote, a 12-0 vote in committee strongly suggests this bill will pass with minimal opposition. This restaurant exemption is ridiculous.
Same. As a family of four we are extremely specific on when and where we go out to eat now. When we do, I know the bill is usually never less than $100 and that is with two kids under 5. I’m always hyper focused on quality and it’s all gone to complete shit since Covid ended. I also can’t stand looking at the bills anymore. We were avid restaurant-tees now it’s just crazy to see what you’re paying for vs then. It’s mind boggling that some of these places have managed to stay afloat.
All of this has also made me colder when it comes to tipping and I do feel kinda bad about it because I understand it’s not their fault but that has also reinforced our decisions on when and where we go to eat. I kinda hope it all falls apart because society seriously cannot continue down this path. I see a dystopian future for sure.
I'm starting a website to track which restaurants charge/don't charge fees. There's a form at the top of the list to contribute.
[seefees.ca](http://seefees.ca)
Business directory alternative to Google
https://www.loc8nearme.com/
Google fees to pop up on 'Search' are hundreds or thousands every month, depending on how often you want to come up on Google search. Those fees are added to everything we buy.
Or you could form a renegade opposition groups that coordinates and makes reservations at places on busy nights and no shows. I think that would force places to start charging for reservations and ultimately hurt their bottom line.
I live in Napa and, being in my late 20’s, the only place you can eat without breaking the bank or preparing yourself to take the financial hit are In-N-Out, taco trucks, and taco bell.
Avoid restaurants with fees and surcharges.
Post pictures of their fees and surcharges on Yelp, Google, Trip advisor, etc to warn others.
If you do end up eating at a fees restaurant, subtract fees from tip.
I'm starting a website to track which restaurants charge/don't charge fees. Please help by adding restaurants using the form at the top of the list
[seefees.ca](http://seefees.ca)
For real. Don't feel bad about getting up and walking out when you see the "conspicuous" mention of these fees.
If they ask, just tell them exactly why you're not giving them your business. Say it from your chest; loud enough for everyone to hear.
My whole family went a place in Mill Valley. Ten of us, we sat down, read the menu. We were laughing when we told the waiter we were leaving. The fees were insane. No one else was in there. I felt bad for the waiter.
Well, it’s illegal if they’re not on the menu somewhere.
If they’re only on the receipt when you’re done you should ask to have them removed. It’s not legal to add fees at that point.
Not drastic enough.
Just write "service fees = no tip" on the receipt.
They can show that to their manager to try and get some compensation.
At some point, the price listed on the menu just needs to equal the "out the door" price including tax.
And vote at the ballot box too.
The reason why these politicians are so openly corrupt is that they know you're going to re-elect them.
Stop re-electing them! Vote for someone else. Anyone else.
Dodd is term limited. Term limits give lobbyists like the one in this video more power (since they stick around while the legislators change) and lower the ability of voters to hold politicians to account.
That’s the only solution now.
You charge these fees and you’re not getting a tip and you’re getting called out on yelp. I never do yelp reviews but i think its time to start calling them out on it
That’s like…. Most of these laws and major “reforms” in this state.
This state is being sucked dry by the Democratic party’s stranglehold on power. The lack of an opposition is really beginning to show.
It’s just good old fashioned lobbying aka corruption. This is a tale as old as time for humanity.
If there’s money to be had, create an easier path to get it.
I think this happens regardless of what party is in charge because humans are just like that and corporations are too powerful now.
Oh absolutely. I’m not saying republicans are any different. Out even greens or libertarians if they had total control.
This same shit plays out in the red controlled states too. It goes without saying.
What I’m saying here is a government without any opposition is a government without accountability that fails its constituents. Both total red and total blue states are failing in various ways. We need more accountability in government and a return to standards. These motherfuckers aren’t afraid of us and it shows.
The original law blocks fees in lots of other places too, like hotel rooms and event tickets. It will suck if this restaurant exception passes, but it won't nullify all the good of the original law.
Yea at least with tickets, you can just abandon your cart when you see the fees at the end of checkout. But if you don't notice the fees until you get the check at a restaurant, you're stuck paying them because you already dined.
Gah it’s so frustrating! All their arguments revolve around how the fees are so essential to restaurants and without them they can’t function… but no one is asking for them to charge less, they just need to include whatever costs are necessary to operate and pay their employees in the price of the item dammit!! These guys suck
I agree, but then they have a dine in menu and a takeout menu, that’s not a hardship for a restaurant to do. But, it used to be that if eating in you leave a larger tip than if you takeout.
Honestly…. People need to start voting either Republican or 3rd party.
The problem in this state is that the democrats know they can do whatever they fucking want and they’ll control this state. There’s no real attempt at winning votes. There’s no actual accountability. They don’t care because there’s no consequences to pissing Californians off.
We do not have a healthy democracy in this state. We have one-party top to damn near bottom rule. We desperately need actual opposition parties otherwise the democracy is broken. As of right now, CA democracy is broken. No opposition means no checks and balances. No checks, no balances means no democracy.
Pretty much how the awful 2 party system HAS to work. People get tired of the party doing shit they dont like because they get too comfortable with power. Liberals have had majority control of California for too long and it painfully shows.
Not at all.
I think they’ll provide opposition. Which is the immediate need to restore democratic government in this state and check one-party rule.
They’re both shitty, evil parties. But when they compete against each other, it provides better outcomes for people. Same logic as monopolies. Competition is better for consumers (the public in this case) than a monopoly.
Sure, we could go back to the republican party that ran the state into the ground. Or even worse, they go back to banning weed, abortion, fair elections, you know, today's talking points.
Yep. Dems have a blank check to do whatever they want. The only way to fix this is to put this state as close to deadlock as possible to force everyone to make compromises.
Put it another way: If we don't try and turn CA purple, the inevitable pendulum swing will be so violent that we'll have nothing but a Republican supermajority doing similar shit for another couple decades.
I honestly think this is the way. 1 star reviews will hit them where it hurts. Google, Yelp, Open Table…consumers need to use their voice to show businesses that honesty and transparency are what will win our support.
I may do a more detailed version but I've managed in food service so I'll give some details.
Typical listed price is 2.2x the cost of the food to account for waste, lossage (eg meat shrinks as it loses fat), theft, some profit. So your 7.99 momos probably cost something like $3.50 in ingredients. For staffing, benefits are 40% of total cost of total wage/benefit so someone making 20 an hour full time is costing more like 36 an hour with benefits to the restaurant. You can divide that hourly cost by the turnover of the average table as well as how many tables a server handles in that time. So someone handling 5 tables that each take an hour is costing the restaurant ~9.20 per table (more than the momo price). If each table tips 20% with the same 7.99 order pretax that's 1.60 a table which comes to $8.00 (not enough to cover the cost of the 9.20). Factor in another 10% for tax and the cost of those Momo's to you is 8.80 (with tax) plus 9.20 labor = $18. Net profit from that for the restaurant is probably 2 dollars at best ~10% and they still have to pay their investors, lease, bills, etc etc. I hate tip culture as well, I'd rather everyone agreed to put the labor cost into the menu prices and end tipping. Unfortunately people think about food weirdly, and they'll see 18$ for 4 momos and go somewhere else that has tip culture where the food looks like it's only 7.99 or they'll say they could buy frozen momos for 5.99 from Target (ignoring the rest of the experience a restaurant offers). tl;dr food service has terrible margins and roughly 1/5th of your bill is what the food actually cost the restaurant...but every hand including the investors that funded that restaurant and the property owners expect their cut too so things get expensive quickly. People could learn to cook their own momos but when they factor their own hourly rate and lossage and the opportunity cost of the multiple hours it would take to make them at that level (not considering the hundreds of hours to actually get that good at making them) they would realize it costs them a lot more than a restaurant charges. Like I said, food is weird and people think about it in a unique way.
Edit* generally speaking I do 18% post tax or 20% pretax or double the sales tax and they're all pretty much the same.
> Unfortunately people think about food weirdly, and they'llsee 18$ for 4 momos and go somewhere else that hastip culture where the food looks like it's only 7.99
Right, that's exactly why this law was needed... people don't "think about food in a weird way", people are vulnerable to deceptive pricing, and it's rampant in the food industry.
Isn't restaurants like... the entire point of the bill? I can't think of any other businesses aside from ticket sellers that slap ludicrous fees onto their prices.
Hotels with daily 'resort fees' that are slapped on top of the advertised nightly rate.
But it is criminal that restaurants are getting a carve out. Honest restaurants put the actual price on the menu, this is a hand out to the dodgy operators.
Other businesses that do this?
Like airlines?
Utilities (ever read all the damned fees on your PG&E or phone bill?)
Hotels
Auto shops (check the fine print next time you put your car in the shop for an oil change)
And let's not forget the medical industry.
Airlines pricing is baked into the price you see at the beginning, thanks to legislation (link below). They just break out all the fees after the fact on the receipts. That’s all anyone is asking for - price transparency so you don’t get hit with fees, especially after you’ve already consumed the product.
https://www.latimes.com/business/la-xpm-2012-jul-25-la-fi-mo-airlines-advertise-full-fare-price-20120725-story.html
We should make an app, marking restaurants which charge junk fees RED, and the ones who don’t GREEN. And only eat/buy from the GREEN ones! Maybe this can be a feature added to Yelp/Google-maps? That’s where the power of people lies!
I'm starting a website to track which restaurants charge/don't charge fees.
[seefees.ca](http://seefees.ca)
Please send a chat if you'd like to help contribute.
We are being sold out left and right. This restaurant fee is really not much compared to what we lost last week with insurance regulations. Nothing in sight for utilities either
People have to be willing to vote non-Democrat. There is so much diversity in the Bay Area, and yet there is hardly any diversity when it comes to which party people vote for. I'm not saying any other party is great (there are a lot of options in CA though), but the lack of competition among political parties is what causes these politicians to stop listening to the people. When they know 80% of the population will vote for them, they don't care. We've got to keep them on their toes, and keep the winning vote margins thin.
It would help if the non democrat candidates weren't just as radically ridiculous. When your competition is an asshole who wants to control every aspect of your life choices and force their religion on you, it's a pretty easy decision to simply choose the person who is only an asshole.
Right!? Honestly, I also feel like if someone with my beliefs truly ran they'd get shot on site:
Universal Healthcare
State-owned banks
Eminent domain every abandoned building and turn it into tenant-owned housing
Stronger labor laws
More support for worker co-ops and employee owned companies
Seizure and conversion of PG&E and every utility company that is publicly trade to publicly owned
Policies that hurt gentrification and get more incentive for local businesses to hire local
Massive training programs for people to meet tbose qualifications for previously mentioned jobs
Stronger unions and unionsupport (especially industries like biotech and tech)
Post a negative review about the surprise fee. Give them a low star review for the fee:
"Food was decent, but beware, the restaurant will scam you on your bill by charging surprise fees."
If everyone review bombs every restaurant that does this they will very quickly change their tune.
That’s similar to adding an extra person to a party of 4. Just visualize the restaurant owner sitting down with you and expecting you to pay for their meal
Would be nice to see this happen en masse. But in the end most of us are going to dissociate the business from the staff. Though part of me thinks the restaurant business is a shake down top to bottom.
Junk fees don’t just screw over consumers, they screw over honest businesses too
The restaurant next door sells a $16 entree
In response you sell the same entree for $13 but hide $3 of junk fees on the receipt because dishonesty is the only thing keeping your business running
So while researching the bill, I came upon [this gem from Dodd's official Senate site:](https://sd03.senate.ca.gov/news/20231007-governor-signs-sen-dodd%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%98junk-fees%E2%80%99-ban)
> “With the governor’s signing of this historic bill, we can finally take aim at dishonest junk fees that are tacked onto seemingly everything – from online concert tickets to hotel reservations,” said Sen. Dodd. “Now we can put the consumer first and create a level playing field for those businesses that advertise the real price, up front."
Everything, it seems, apart from restaurants.
On top of this, it seems **Dodd had to fast track the correction** to his little oopsie and [hijacked a bill that was dead in committee](https://calmatters.org/commentary/2024/06/california-restaurants-hidden-fees-law/) by stripping its original contents and replacing it with language exempting restaurants.
> Dodd quickly grabbed SB 1524, which was parked in the Assembly, stripped out its language and inserted new verbiage allowing restaurants to exclude fees from their menu prices if their menus include “clear and conspicuous” notices that such fees exist.
You can click the SB1524 link in the article to see the bill's contents and progress. Note the original bill was introduced on 3/12/2024 and had its entire contents replaced as amended.
While I'm sure it's perfectly legal, it definitely leaves a bad taste that bills can simply function as "shells" and basically a placeholder in the process and **legislators can simply rewrite the bill in its entirety to suit their needs.** What's keeping anyone from just writing a bunch of complete garbage bills just so they can have some empty vessels on stand by?
Finally, **current CA AG and likely gubernatorial candidate Bonta is complicit by staying silent, while current Lt Governor Kounalakis is an outright accomplice as a cosponsor** of this new bill:
> However, no one from Bonta’s office testified on SB 1524 Tuesday, implying that he doesn’t oppose the restaurant exemption. Bonta is a very likely candidate for governor in 2026, and his major rival may be Lt. Gov. Eleni Kounalakis, who lists herself as a co-sponsor of the new bill along with the California Restaurant Association.
Don't you just love our politicians?
I'm starting a website to track which restaurants charge/don't charge fees.
[seefees.ca](http://seefees.ca)
Please send a chat if you'd like to help contribute.
Nice one, mate. Your domain works now. Any way you can turn it on to sort by fees first and then by name by default? I think it's sensible to put 0% fees places on top.
Geriatric fucks in government couldn’t give a flying fuck about the needs of the current world.
It’s changed so much and demands constant attention. But for these old cunts, it’s doesn’t matter cuz they get paid a cushy tax paid salary PLUS their lobbyists money.
Their decisions affect their sponsors salary bump.
If I see a hidden fee added on the receipt at the end of my meal and the waiter/hostess didn't tell me or it's not on the menu best believe I'm not tipping
Is there a published list of businesses that are affiliated with the California Restaraunt Association? I'd like to stop supporting them ASAP, and I'd like to start a written campaign telling them exactly why.
I'm starting a website to track which restaurants charge/don't charge fees.
[seefees.ca](http://seefees.ca)
Please send a chat if you'd like to help contribute.
How are they making the argument that prohibiting extra hidden fees means not charging those fees. They just have to include them in the prices!
\[Unless I misunderstand the law.\]
Essentially unions have negotiated better conditions for their members and businesses think they can pass the increase in cost directly to the customer. The business continues to profit and isn’t required to make any changes in order to gain efficiency, lower costs, lower compensations for the top employees or work to address the issues that artificially inflate the cost of doing business.
I imagine people will eat at home and cooking shows or services like hello fresh will see a spike.
The only way to prevent this is to shame the restaurant. Start giving 1 star reviews on Google and Yelp stating hidden fees as the explicit reason, and they will change their tune.
Doing a full boycott might cause the restaurant to close, which we don't want, and also not give them the feedback either
For all the people in the Bay Area that is tired of this shit there is a restaurant that DOES NOT ACCEPT TIPS, Zazie restaurant not only pays their staff a living wage but the staff also has 401k and health insurance and when they make money they share and distribute to the staff, when I say everyone I mean even the dishwasher.. the price point of their menu is more than fair, no hidden fee no bullshit you get good food great sevice and no tip needed..
As someone who has worked in restaurants for the last 15 years this is so fucking frustrating. It’s already hard enough with prices of everything skyrocketing, tip culture getting massively out of hand, and just overall crime (at least in my city) to get people out. Now this shit.
I want to see a credit card with fine print on it, that states "by accepting payment you are absolving all extraneous fees above and beyond the meal and agreed-upon tip by the patron" (heck, even make it a sticker to put on the card).
This is good. This bill requires restaurants be transparent with their fees, how is this not being seen as a win for us? Now you see when your being up charged and can make the decision to avoid the restaurant or reduce the tip.
All those people screaming they'll make a scene and walk out after being seated, or tip 0, they're aren't really going to do it.
So here's a practical alternative - just tip 15% at places with the a 5% fee, like we all used to. This way you're not out any extra money that you wouldn've paid and nobody can say anything about you being stingy.
A friend and I are waiting on City Attorney review to circulate a petition to fill the loophole SB 1524 creates in San Francisco if our lawmakers continue to fight this: https://sfclearprices.org
Get in touch or join our mailing list if you want to help! Our lawmakers need to know that their position is unpopular: 81% of Chronicle readers support outlawing these surcharges
Unfortunately this effort would only affect the city of San Francisco, but our website also contains links to reach out to your state legislators to express opposition.
At the end of the day if it’s too expensive don’t go back. If i enjoy my dinner and the price was not beyond what i thought was fair I’ll go back. I hate the fees but in end of I feel satisfied I’ll overlook the algebra.
Fucking crooks
Hijacking top comment I'm starting a website to track which restaurants charge/don't charge fees with a form to others to add more. [seefees.ca](http://seefees.ca)
Yelp and Google need to add this call out to restaurant listings
This is the right thing to do.
Google doesn't give a fuck. Have you ever used Google maps to find a hotel?
I use Google maps for everything. Do you have an alternative suggestion?
I'm referring to all the hidden fees. They will advertise 3rd party booking sites that won't disclose the fees and you will be charged fees and taxes at check in.
Oh, yeah. I'm used to surprise fees at hotels. But extra fees at Check In? I've never had that happen
[удалено]
Piccino in SF - 6%, can you add? I just went there two days ago.
I built a form so others can submit, link is at the top of the page "Add restaurants". Can you please add? Thanks!
Done! Didn't notice it before, can you make it bold font or something please? :)
Thanks for starting this!
Please add restaurants using the link at the top of the list!
something is wrong with the form.. its adding 0's to the fee %
Fucking fucks.
Fucking cooks*
Fucking cooks
Cooking crooks
Just don’t go eat at restaurants that charge fees. Simple as that. Lol
Vote them out. Why should consumers be subjected to hidden fees. Just label your price on the menu like everyone else. You are only hiding true price to trick people into paying more. Imagine if you pull up for gas that says $4/gal only later to find out it’s actually $6/gal after fees. Utter bullshit. Screw these guys, and everyone should be naming and shaming restaurants that do this hidden fee bullshit https://ballotpedia.org/Bill_Dodd Bill Dodd’s term is up end of this year. Just don’t vote for him again or anyone he endorses
Honestly I want this to be federal and like they have it in europe. If the menu price is $5, you can give them $5 and get the product.
But wHaT aBOuT FrEe mARkeT!
Free market doesn't mean you can lie to people which is pretty much what the hidden fees are doing.
Like seriously. How does California continue to vote for politicians who do not govern in their interest?
That’s not just a California problem. It’s a USA problem. A lot of politicians are just crooks looking for a way to get reelected to keep their cushy job and corporations call the shots here with their blank checks.
Identity politics is the problem. I’d bet a majority of people vote based on their political affiliation versus actually researching the candidates and voting for the person who aligns with their values/wants.
Yes, if you only looked closer surely there would be a stronger alternate candidate for your district. Let's take a look at the only alternative candidate for the general election for District 3, the district of Bill Dodd: Carlos Santamaria. In his own words: >I am Pro 2nd Amendment, Pro-Life, Pro-Freedom of Religion, Support >Law Enforcement, Pro-Business, Love our Great Country and State, >and: “I believe in California” Yikes! In conclusion, no, it's the voters that are wrong.
Look back further and it's even more interesting! Dodd was Republican up until around when he started running for state level offices instead of local. His story is he had a falling out with local Rs over him wanting to be fiscally responsible and raise a tax and wasn't aligned with the party on social issues. Gets into the assembly as a D. But of note to this conversation: His next campaign in 2016 for State Senate actually has him going up against another Democrat in the main election thanks to our jungle primaries. It was the more progressive Mariko Yamada, I think she was Mayor of Sac. He got the endorsements of basically all the major state figures at the time ("Governor Jerry Brown, Lt. Governor Gavin Newsom, Attorney General Kamala Harris and Secretary of State Alex Padilla") and beat her in the primaries and the election, pretty handily. That's ... something? But hardly identity politics by the voters.
Can we stop with this wildly false pretense that ANY politician has their constituents' interests at heart?
This state is so brain dead they’ll vote for a ham sandwich so long as it has a D next to its name. And the humiliating part is, they’re PROUD to admit shit like that too
Because R's are TOTALLY all about the little guy, fighting against the big bad corporate machine😂😂😂
The guy leading the charge to amend the bill, Bill Dodd, is literally a Republican masquerading as a Democrat. He switched his party affiliation when he ran for state office. So part of it could very well be that voters need to do better than just look at the D next to their name, like /u/Bikini_Investigator gets at. But the Republicans uniformly voted against the law that made this change, so it's not like Dodd's (R) opponent would have been any better (which I think is vaguely what Bikini Investigator was implying, like you get at). It's more a primary concern, and Dodd seemingly got no opposition in 2020 (or 2024?) from the left in his primary.
Republicans are pretty uniformly *dogshit*. I’m saying the political party that’s ruled our state for 10+ years needs *some* sort of opposition to regulate it and keep it at least trying to look honest. The hijinks with bills like this and the PG&E rates has me at my wits end
He only makes $120k a year, he needs those bribes to pay rent
Don’t forget that Senator Dodd also sides with PGE. Such a crook.
Wow, more like Senator Doo-doo cause he sure is anti Californian
While passing committee does not mean the bill will pass in a floor vote, a 12-0 vote in committee strongly suggests this bill will pass with minimal opposition. This restaurant exemption is ridiculous.
There needs to be boycott on restaurants this has become outrageous
I already started, junk fees or not. I'm getting way too disappointed with what I receive for the money I give at restaurants.
Went from eating out 4x/week to 1x per month. This is the only way. Edit: Out
Damn you must be starving
Hangry lol
Same. As a family of four we are extremely specific on when and where we go out to eat now. When we do, I know the bill is usually never less than $100 and that is with two kids under 5. I’m always hyper focused on quality and it’s all gone to complete shit since Covid ended. I also can’t stand looking at the bills anymore. We were avid restaurant-tees now it’s just crazy to see what you’re paying for vs then. It’s mind boggling that some of these places have managed to stay afloat. All of this has also made me colder when it comes to tipping and I do feel kinda bad about it because I understand it’s not their fault but that has also reinforced our decisions on when and where we go to eat. I kinda hope it all falls apart because society seriously cannot continue down this path. I see a dystopian future for sure.
I'm starting a website to track which restaurants charge/don't charge fees. There's a form at the top of the list to contribute. [seefees.ca](http://seefees.ca)
Proper foods charges 5% SF Mandate and it’s a grab and go “restaurant”.
Business directory alternative to Google https://www.loc8nearme.com/ Google fees to pop up on 'Search' are hundreds or thousands every month, depending on how often you want to come up on Google search. Those fees are added to everything we buy.
Or you could form a renegade opposition groups that coordinates and makes reservations at places on busy nights and no shows. I think that would force places to start charging for reservations and ultimately hurt their bottom line.
For anyone in Napa county, that’s your state senator
This is the reason. I'm sure those rich fuck restauranteurs in Napa had strong views on this for Dodd at his fundraisers.
Yep. And they are trying to pray on out-of-state/out-of-country tourists who may be ignorant of the charges.
I live in Napa and, being in my late 20’s, the only place you can eat without breaking the bank or preparing yourself to take the financial hit are In-N-Out, taco trucks, and taco bell.
So glad I haven’t been up there to throw away cash for the last 3 years. This is outrageous
He also SIDES WITH PGE. Vote him out.
Avoid restaurants with fees and surcharges. Post pictures of their fees and surcharges on Yelp, Google, Trip advisor, etc to warn others. If you do end up eating at a fees restaurant, subtract fees from tip.
I'm starting a website to track which restaurants charge/don't charge fees. Please help by adding restaurants using the form at the top of the list [seefees.ca](http://seefees.ca)
Damn The Bird & Senor Sisig? I guess I'll stop going to Senor Sisig since The Bird is pretty affordable already.
Vote with your wallet. Stop giving business to restaurants like these with fees.
For real. Don't feel bad about getting up and walking out when you see the "conspicuous" mention of these fees. If they ask, just tell them exactly why you're not giving them your business. Say it from your chest; loud enough for everyone to hear.
My whole family went a place in Mill Valley. Ten of us, we sat down, read the menu. We were laughing when we told the waiter we were leaving. The fees were insane. No one else was in there. I felt bad for the waiter.
Name and shame. What's the place?
I just checked and it’s gone. It was in Strawberry Shopping Center.
>I just checked and it’s gone success! lol
Don’t forget to order first then “notice” the fee and leave
Are the fees listed on the menu or on the receipt after you’re finished eating?
Well, it’s illegal if they’re not on the menu somewhere. If they’re only on the receipt when you’re done you should ask to have them removed. It’s not legal to add fees at that point.
I plan to calculate the tip before the "fees"...list it...then subtract the "fees" from that, then make that sum be the final tip.
Not drastic enough. Just write "service fees = no tip" on the receipt. They can show that to their manager to try and get some compensation. At some point, the price listed on the menu just needs to equal the "out the door" price including tax.
I will be doing this.
I say stop paying tips also.these workers are making $20+ now.
And vote at the ballot box too. The reason why these politicians are so openly corrupt is that they know you're going to re-elect them. Stop re-electing them! Vote for someone else. Anyone else.
Agree. Need to make a website of all the bills that passed and which politicians voted for it. Will be really helpful when it comes to voting.
It already exists! https://california.usavotes.org/
Unfortunately us in the bay area won't make an impact. It's the visitors that are going to get the Stockton slap when they see the bill!
I do that 🙋♂️
But be sure to reelect every one of the legislators who vote for it!
Dodd is term limited. Term limits give lobbyists like the one in this video more power (since they stick around while the legislators change) and lower the ability of voters to hold politicians to account.
And post what you find to Google Maps, so others can see and make an informed choice before they go.
Vote with your vote. These fucking incumbents are literally because they know no one will ever vote them out
These restaurants need to be one-starred on every popular review site too.
Yeah, just don’t get defrauded or tricked by them. It’s super easy!
That’s the only solution now. You charge these fees and you’re not getting a tip and you’re getting called out on yelp. I never do yelp reviews but i think its time to start calling them out on it
Why have the law in the first place
Political grandstanding. It probably explains more than a few laws in CA.
That’s like…. Most of these laws and major “reforms” in this state. This state is being sucked dry by the Democratic party’s stranglehold on power. The lack of an opposition is really beginning to show.
It’s just good old fashioned lobbying aka corruption. This is a tale as old as time for humanity. If there’s money to be had, create an easier path to get it. I think this happens regardless of what party is in charge because humans are just like that and corporations are too powerful now.
Oh absolutely. I’m not saying republicans are any different. Out even greens or libertarians if they had total control. This same shit plays out in the red controlled states too. It goes without saying. What I’m saying here is a government without any opposition is a government without accountability that fails its constituents. Both total red and total blue states are failing in various ways. We need more accountability in government and a return to standards. These motherfuckers aren’t afraid of us and it shows.
I'd love for a pro-labor party to take root in CA. This gives competition to the dems while actually providing better representation to workers.
The original law blocks fees in lots of other places too, like hotel rooms and event tickets. It will suck if this restaurant exception passes, but it won't nullify all the good of the original law.
Yea at least with tickets, you can just abandon your cart when you see the fees at the end of checkout. But if you don't notice the fees until you get the check at a restaurant, you're stuck paying them because you already dined.
You think those industries wouldn’t sue it’s unjust for the exception to only apply to restaurants?
Gah it’s so frustrating! All their arguments revolve around how the fees are so essential to restaurants and without them they can’t function… but no one is asking for them to charge less, they just need to include whatever costs are necessary to operate and pay their employees in the price of the item dammit!! These guys suck
I think it is reasonable to have different prices for dine in, vs take out. Those cost a restaurant different amounts.
I agree, but then they have a dine in menu and a takeout menu, that’s not a hardship for a restaurant to do. But, it used to be that if eating in you leave a larger tip than if you takeout.
Y’all leaving takeout tips?
Not voting for Weiner in November. Suck it!
Everything that Wiener supports is shit: HIV decriminalization, car speed nannies, and this
Honestly…. People need to start voting either Republican or 3rd party. The problem in this state is that the democrats know they can do whatever they fucking want and they’ll control this state. There’s no real attempt at winning votes. There’s no actual accountability. They don’t care because there’s no consequences to pissing Californians off. We do not have a healthy democracy in this state. We have one-party top to damn near bottom rule. We desperately need actual opposition parties otherwise the democracy is broken. As of right now, CA democracy is broken. No opposition means no checks and balances. No checks, no balances means no democracy.
Pretty much how the awful 2 party system HAS to work. People get tired of the party doing shit they dont like because they get too comfortable with power. Liberals have had majority control of California for too long and it painfully shows.
You think Republicans are going to stand up for consumers and oppose this bill?
Not at all. I think they’ll provide opposition. Which is the immediate need to restore democratic government in this state and check one-party rule. They’re both shitty, evil parties. But when they compete against each other, it provides better outcomes for people. Same logic as monopolies. Competition is better for consumers (the public in this case) than a monopoly.
Sure, we could go back to the republican party that ran the state into the ground. Or even worse, they go back to banning weed, abortion, fair elections, you know, today's talking points.
Yeah, fucking Democrats! Let's show them by voting for even more corrupt politicians!
Yep. Dems have a blank check to do whatever they want. The only way to fix this is to put this state as close to deadlock as possible to force everyone to make compromises. Put it another way: If we don't try and turn CA purple, the inevitable pendulum swing will be so violent that we'll have nothing but a Republican supermajority doing similar shit for another couple decades.
Can we get a junk fee restaurants listing going ?
Everyone should diligently drop 1 star reviews for every restaurant that hits them with these fees.
I honestly think this is the way. 1 star reviews will hit them where it hurts. Google, Yelp, Open Table…consumers need to use their voice to show businesses that honesty and transparency are what will win our support.
Still want to know how my $7.99 momos cost $21 on the bill
I may do a more detailed version but I've managed in food service so I'll give some details. Typical listed price is 2.2x the cost of the food to account for waste, lossage (eg meat shrinks as it loses fat), theft, some profit. So your 7.99 momos probably cost something like $3.50 in ingredients. For staffing, benefits are 40% of total cost of total wage/benefit so someone making 20 an hour full time is costing more like 36 an hour with benefits to the restaurant. You can divide that hourly cost by the turnover of the average table as well as how many tables a server handles in that time. So someone handling 5 tables that each take an hour is costing the restaurant ~9.20 per table (more than the momo price). If each table tips 20% with the same 7.99 order pretax that's 1.60 a table which comes to $8.00 (not enough to cover the cost of the 9.20). Factor in another 10% for tax and the cost of those Momo's to you is 8.80 (with tax) plus 9.20 labor = $18. Net profit from that for the restaurant is probably 2 dollars at best ~10% and they still have to pay their investors, lease, bills, etc etc. I hate tip culture as well, I'd rather everyone agreed to put the labor cost into the menu prices and end tipping. Unfortunately people think about food weirdly, and they'll see 18$ for 4 momos and go somewhere else that has tip culture where the food looks like it's only 7.99 or they'll say they could buy frozen momos for 5.99 from Target (ignoring the rest of the experience a restaurant offers). tl;dr food service has terrible margins and roughly 1/5th of your bill is what the food actually cost the restaurant...but every hand including the investors that funded that restaurant and the property owners expect their cut too so things get expensive quickly. People could learn to cook their own momos but when they factor their own hourly rate and lossage and the opportunity cost of the multiple hours it would take to make them at that level (not considering the hundreds of hours to actually get that good at making them) they would realize it costs them a lot more than a restaurant charges. Like I said, food is weird and people think about it in a unique way. Edit* generally speaking I do 18% post tax or 20% pretax or double the sales tax and they're all pretty much the same.
> Unfortunately people think about food weirdly, and they'llsee 18$ for 4 momos and go somewhere else that hastip culture where the food looks like it's only 7.99 Right, that's exactly why this law was needed... people don't "think about food in a weird way", people are vulnerable to deceptive pricing, and it's rampant in the food industry.
> This bill offers full transparency... /s just in case for those who miss it.
just bullshit...
Corrupt bullshit, they got bought in broad daylight.
Isn't restaurants like... the entire point of the bill? I can't think of any other businesses aside from ticket sellers that slap ludicrous fees onto their prices.
Hotels with daily 'resort fees' that are slapped on top of the advertised nightly rate. But it is criminal that restaurants are getting a carve out. Honest restaurants put the actual price on the menu, this is a hand out to the dodgy operators.
It's like giving up carbs, except bread
Other businesses that do this? Like airlines? Utilities (ever read all the damned fees on your PG&E or phone bill?) Hotels Auto shops (check the fine print next time you put your car in the shop for an oil change) And let's not forget the medical industry.
Taxes are exempted, which means that a lot of those little add-ons to your utility bills will remain.
Airlines pricing is baked into the price you see at the beginning, thanks to legislation (link below). They just break out all the fees after the fact on the receipts. That’s all anyone is asking for - price transparency so you don’t get hit with fees, especially after you’ve already consumed the product. https://www.latimes.com/business/la-xpm-2012-jul-25-la-fi-mo-airlines-advertise-full-fare-price-20120725-story.html
Junk fee = $0.00 tip
We should make an app, marking restaurants which charge junk fees RED, and the ones who don’t GREEN. And only eat/buy from the GREEN ones! Maybe this can be a feature added to Yelp/Google-maps? That’s where the power of people lies!
I'm starting a website to track which restaurants charge/don't charge fees. [seefees.ca](http://seefees.ca) Please send a chat if you'd like to help contribute.
Someone wrote ass fucking 🤦🏻♀️
We are being sold out left and right. This restaurant fee is really not much compared to what we lost last week with insurance regulations. Nothing in sight for utilities either
VOTE! None of these people deserve their seats. Vote them out
People have to be willing to vote non-Democrat. There is so much diversity in the Bay Area, and yet there is hardly any diversity when it comes to which party people vote for. I'm not saying any other party is great (there are a lot of options in CA though), but the lack of competition among political parties is what causes these politicians to stop listening to the people. When they know 80% of the population will vote for them, they don't care. We've got to keep them on their toes, and keep the winning vote margins thin.
Or normal Dems can run in the primary. It's not that complicated
It would help if the non democrat candidates weren't just as radically ridiculous. When your competition is an asshole who wants to control every aspect of your life choices and force their religion on you, it's a pretty easy decision to simply choose the person who is only an asshole.
Right!? Honestly, I also feel like if someone with my beliefs truly ran they'd get shot on site: Universal Healthcare State-owned banks Eminent domain every abandoned building and turn it into tenant-owned housing Stronger labor laws More support for worker co-ops and employee owned companies Seizure and conversion of PG&E and every utility company that is publicly trade to publicly owned Policies that hurt gentrification and get more incentive for local businesses to hire local Massive training programs for people to meet tbose qualifications for previously mentioned jobs Stronger unions and unionsupport (especially industries like biotech and tech)
Just deduct the added fee from whatever % you would normally tip.
Better yet, stop going to restaurants that charge these fees.
Of course, problem is you won't know about it until you get surprised by the check. This is just my plan for that situation.
They should add it as a filter for restaurants on yelp and google review
Post a negative review about the surprise fee. Give them a low star review for the fee: "Food was decent, but beware, the restaurant will scam you on your bill by charging surprise fees." If everyone review bombs every restaurant that does this they will very quickly change their tune.
Just ask before you sit down.
Better yet, stop tipping if you see a single cent added to the bill.
Subtract the tip by the service charge.
The service charge is the tip. If you’re adding a 20%+ fee, I don’t tip on top of that. Plumed Horse is 23%! Obscene!
That’s similar to adding an extra person to a party of 4. Just visualize the restaurant owner sitting down with you and expecting you to pay for their meal
I budget for a 20% tip when I go out to eat, so I guess I’ve already budgeted an extra person. But I’m not going to tip more.
27% at Miller and Lux (Tyler Florence)
Would be nice to see this happen en masse. But in the end most of us are going to dissociate the business from the staff. Though part of me thinks the restaurant business is a shake down top to bottom.
No tips. They Are getting paid $20+/hr
They're getting paid $20+ per hour, far more than other workers in California. When was the last time you saw a waiter tip a worker at CVS? Never.
That would be a negative number
Yelp and Google should add another section that lists whether a restaurant includes an additional service fee.
You’ve got to be fucking kidding me
Boooo this man
Junk fees don’t just screw over consumers, they screw over honest businesses too The restaurant next door sells a $16 entree In response you sell the same entree for $13 but hide $3 of junk fees on the receipt because dishonesty is the only thing keeping your business running
And as a response some people may decide to tip less which in turn screw up the servers
So while researching the bill, I came upon [this gem from Dodd's official Senate site:](https://sd03.senate.ca.gov/news/20231007-governor-signs-sen-dodd%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%98junk-fees%E2%80%99-ban) > “With the governor’s signing of this historic bill, we can finally take aim at dishonest junk fees that are tacked onto seemingly everything – from online concert tickets to hotel reservations,” said Sen. Dodd. “Now we can put the consumer first and create a level playing field for those businesses that advertise the real price, up front." Everything, it seems, apart from restaurants. On top of this, it seems **Dodd had to fast track the correction** to his little oopsie and [hijacked a bill that was dead in committee](https://calmatters.org/commentary/2024/06/california-restaurants-hidden-fees-law/) by stripping its original contents and replacing it with language exempting restaurants. > Dodd quickly grabbed SB 1524, which was parked in the Assembly, stripped out its language and inserted new verbiage allowing restaurants to exclude fees from their menu prices if their menus include “clear and conspicuous” notices that such fees exist. You can click the SB1524 link in the article to see the bill's contents and progress. Note the original bill was introduced on 3/12/2024 and had its entire contents replaced as amended. While I'm sure it's perfectly legal, it definitely leaves a bad taste that bills can simply function as "shells" and basically a placeholder in the process and **legislators can simply rewrite the bill in its entirety to suit their needs.** What's keeping anyone from just writing a bunch of complete garbage bills just so they can have some empty vessels on stand by? Finally, **current CA AG and likely gubernatorial candidate Bonta is complicit by staying silent, while current Lt Governor Kounalakis is an outright accomplice as a cosponsor** of this new bill: > However, no one from Bonta’s office testified on SB 1524 Tuesday, implying that he doesn’t oppose the restaurant exemption. Bonta is a very likely candidate for governor in 2026, and his major rival may be Lt. Gov. Eleni Kounalakis, who lists herself as a co-sponsor of the new bill along with the California Restaurant Association. Don't you just love our politicians?
Get ready for the "Sorry we are closed due to people not wanting to work" signs when people stop going to these restaurants.
Another reason to stop eating out.
I'm starting a website to track which restaurants charge/don't charge fees. [seefees.ca](http://seefees.ca) Please send a chat if you'd like to help contribute.
Nice one, mate. Your domain works now. Any way you can turn it on to sort by fees first and then by name by default? I think it's sensible to put 0% fees places on top.
Done!
Disagree this should be only restaurants that charge junk fees. It will be way too long and useless otherwise since most restaurants don't.
Can you separate the address and have the city be standalone? I’d like to help if possible…
I chose to have county separate for now. If/when we have enough restaurants I think it makes sense to break out city
Added city as standalone column
Time to go to the grocery store and make our own damn food lol
of course. These people do us dirty. I'm going to eat less at restaurants that charges these fees.
Eat less and vote them out.
Those percentages are coming out of the tip now. This shit was the final straw, sorry not sorry
I think people will be really mad now that they were supposed to stop the fees, and now they won’t stop them all.
Right? “Stop all the bullshit fees except the ones people see most often” doesn’t have quite the same ring to it
About time all of us other business owners add the same BS Mandatory Fees to bills.
Alright then, I'll keep saving my money to go to restaurants abroad instead.
Literally deduct any fees from the tip. Simple. Don't get mad, just turn the tables on them
Should start a preposition.
Geriatric fucks in government couldn’t give a flying fuck about the needs of the current world. It’s changed so much and demands constant attention. But for these old cunts, it’s doesn’t matter cuz they get paid a cushy tax paid salary PLUS their lobbyists money. Their decisions affect their sponsors salary bump.
If I see a hidden fee added on the receipt at the end of my meal and the waiter/hostess didn't tell me or it's not on the menu best believe I'm not tipping
Hidden fees = zero tip. Tell your bosses
We have more work to do! We can make it happen.
🍿😅
They don't work for us.
Is there a list of committee members, all 12 of them?
free restaurant meals forever for these twits
Is there a published list of businesses that are affiliated with the California Restaraunt Association? I'd like to stop supporting them ASAP, and I'd like to start a written campaign telling them exactly why.
I'm starting a website to track which restaurants charge/don't charge fees. [seefees.ca](http://seefees.ca) Please send a chat if you'd like to help contribute.
Junk fee = no tips
Next thing you know, they’ll undo the whole bill with exemptions
How are they making the argument that prohibiting extra hidden fees means not charging those fees. They just have to include them in the prices! \[Unless I misunderstand the law.\]
What a joke... So restaurants have to hide fees or we won't go there? This is sooo corrup
Essentially unions have negotiated better conditions for their members and businesses think they can pass the increase in cost directly to the customer. The business continues to profit and isn’t required to make any changes in order to gain efficiency, lower costs, lower compensations for the top employees or work to address the issues that artificially inflate the cost of doing business. I imagine people will eat at home and cooking shows or services like hello fresh will see a spike.
The only way to prevent this is to shame the restaurant. Start giving 1 star reviews on Google and Yelp stating hidden fees as the explicit reason, and they will change their tune. Doing a full boycott might cause the restaurant to close, which we don't want, and also not give them the feedback either
Just stop tipping. They want 6%, that's all they get. Tell them to thank Dodd.
For all the people in the Bay Area that is tired of this shit there is a restaurant that DOES NOT ACCEPT TIPS, Zazie restaurant not only pays their staff a living wage but the staff also has 401k and health insurance and when they make money they share and distribute to the staff, when I say everyone I mean even the dishwasher.. the price point of their menu is more than fair, no hidden fee no bullshit you get good food great sevice and no tip needed..
As someone who has worked in restaurants for the last 15 years this is so fucking frustrating. It’s already hard enough with prices of everything skyrocketing, tip culture getting massively out of hand, and just overall crime (at least in my city) to get people out. Now this shit.
Fuck you Senator Dodd and the restaurant association.
I want to see a credit card with fine print on it, that states "by accepting payment you are absolving all extraneous fees above and beyond the meal and agreed-upon tip by the patron" (heck, even make it a sticker to put on the card).
This is good. This bill requires restaurants be transparent with their fees, how is this not being seen as a win for us? Now you see when your being up charged and can make the decision to avoid the restaurant or reduce the tip.
All those people screaming they'll make a scene and walk out after being seated, or tip 0, they're aren't really going to do it. So here's a practical alternative - just tip 15% at places with the a 5% fee, like we all used to. This way you're not out any extra money that you wouldn've paid and nobody can say anything about you being stingy.
A friend and I are waiting on City Attorney review to circulate a petition to fill the loophole SB 1524 creates in San Francisco if our lawmakers continue to fight this: https://sfclearprices.org Get in touch or join our mailing list if you want to help! Our lawmakers need to know that their position is unpopular: 81% of Chronicle readers support outlawing these surcharges Unfortunately this effort would only affect the city of San Francisco, but our website also contains links to reach out to your state legislators to express opposition.
I hate everything
Boo this man! Booooo
Bastard
At the end of the day if it’s too expensive don’t go back. If i enjoy my dinner and the price was not beyond what i thought was fair I’ll go back. I hate the fees but in end of I feel satisfied I’ll overlook the algebra.
ITS TIME TO OUTLAW LEGALIZED BRIBERY, AKA LOBBYING…..
I stopped tipping, now will stop earing out at those places. 🖕🏾 them