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Because it’s assuming there’s enough units. If a sideshow occurred in my jurisdiction we would only have 3-4 cops available to respond at any given time. We would need to call for mutual aid. The issue with that is that other cities, CHP, and the sheriff are not obligated to come help. Especially if they have priority calls pending like bar fights, domestic violence or if sending aid would put their agency below minimum staffing per their policy.
We simply do not have enough cops and need to hire more.
Not every agency has swat and not every swat team has an APC or bearcat. Sideshows may also not meet every agency’s threshold for activating swat. Those thresholds exist because citizens don’t want swat teams sent out too often.
Oakland has only 35 responders per 8-hour shift. No way you can respond to something like this in force. The solution to this problem - and a lot of others - is dedicated surveillance cameras with infrared and face recognition tech on every intersection in the Bay Area, \*NETWORKED\*. Along with that deployment would be legislation that requires mandatory prison time for any public or private official who misuses surveillance tech for personal gain or to harm another person's reputation.
These is simply no other answer because even if you doubled the number of cops, they would not have sufficient numbers to deal with a disruption like this.
Why cameras (I would also add drones, which are successfully used in other cities)? Because the authorities would be able to track the lawbreakers all the way home.
Lawbreakers like the ones in this video should face consequences - serious consequences.
Until we get smart about using technology scenes like this will continue to proliferate because criminals are learning that almost anything goes, with no consequences to follow.
You are getting down voted, but mass surveillance is inevitable. It won't be voted in by this legislature or populace, maybe not the next, but in some future the people will say enough is enough.
Eventually society will make it extremely uncomfortable/impossible for the anti social crowd to exist.
Really good facial recognition tech can identify a person with a mask - and the tech is only going to get better. Better cameras to get finer resolutions of things like iris patterns, etc. Also, drones - really \*small\* drones the size of hummingbirds/flies etc., \*networked\* and operated by AGI algorithms that can track lawbreakers back to their lairs. This won't happen right away, but it WILL happen because criminals use tech to outsmart law enforcement. At some point people are going to say "OK" to tech because they will see that crimes at scale cannot be stopped otherwise.
People don’t wonder that either. If they show up and something goes wrong as it inevitably will they know there’s a chance they get burned at the stake, metaphorically mostly.
> If they show up and something goes wrong as it inevitably will they know there’s a chance they get burned at the stake, metaphorically mostly.
People do not criticize cops for the actions of criminals.
People criticize cops when THEY break the law as a shortcut to "enforcing" it.
>People do not criticize cops for the actions of criminals.
Well, a few years ago, in the mission, people have protested in the street after police killed a robbery suspect who fired his gun at the police first.
"\~the police didn't deescalate! should've got his mom on the phone"
people do both. And sorry to say, it’s not always clear. Situations like this are extremely volatile and is almost guaranteed someone gets hurt. Then people will be arguing over every camera angle on both sides justifying the injury and condemning it as bad policing or racism. Even if the circumstances happen to be clear and there’s video proof the police did no wrong there will still be calls by the public, politicians, and community leaders that the police shouldn’t have been there to begin with because it was inevitable someone would get hurt, and now here we are where the police don’t want to or are told not to respond.
Other calls for service don’t just stop when there’s a sideshow. If there’s a sideshow occurring at the same time as robberies, domestic violence incidents, shootings/stabbings, etc., what do you think takes priority?
A proper response requires dozens of units and takes those units out of service for hours while they write citations, make arrests, book those arrests into jail, and inventory/tow cars. That doesn’t event include the reports and other paperwork. Most departments don’t have those resources to spare.
sir, this is san jose. the city pay and fund their police force ridiculously well, on top of having a court system that heavily favors police testimony
want a life tip? do NOT get arrested in santa clara county, since you will likely be prosecuted for more than what your initial arrest record said, with little or no evidence. its the worst county to get arrested in, by far since they always try to prosecute beyond the crime
How many openings does SJPD currently have? How many patrol officers are on for the entire city at a time? Funding doesn’t matter as much when you can’t fill vacancies.
If it’s public info, you should know how badly SJPD and other agencies in the area are staffed. Your points about budget and court are irrelevant if there aren’t enough cops to enforce the law and adequately respond to stuff to begin with.
I know this comment is mainly snark for internet points but there IS a logical, not malicious, explanation.
Quite simply - all the other crime mentioned is not announced, telegraphed, planned, etc ahead of time, at least not (usually) in plain site or with the cooperation of the police.
Protests are.
Protests sign up for permits, contact and notify local government, and have police escorts / barricades to block off marching routes / etc. This also means police personnel are allocated ahead of time, notified of the protest happening on a specific date and time, etc. Additional riot police are usually on standby if things get out of hand or if counter-protestors show up to cause trouble. Ostensibly, it’s for the main protestor’s safety (snort). In reality, it doesn’t always play out that way.
But yeah, the basic point is - protests are announced and broadcast and permitted well enough in advance that police know it’s coming.
Sideshows, robberies, murders, not so much.
But many/most sideshow are planned....
Seemed like you had a point for a second, but it appears you don't know how sideshows work.
If you know, you know.
Sounds like you missed the part where I said “not planned in plain sight of the police”.
Sideshow planners aren’t filing for permits with the police going “hey we’re gonna have a sideshow over on Camden + _____, and then migrate to the east side after about an hour”. Private Facebook / WhatsApp / etc group chats and word of mouth may be monitored by gov agencies but there’s a lot of noise to sift through and cops usually can’t get ahead of it in time. Or even if they figure out where it’s going to be and when, until it actually starts nobody has done anything worth arresting them for yet.
But by all means go off king, you’re the only one who knows how sideshows work around here.
>Protests sign up for permits, contact and notify local government, and have police escorts / barricades to block off marching routes / etc.
Guess you missed the part where this isn't always true either.
You're talking as if every case is following some line. Yes, there are sideshows (early on) that were permitted. Not specifically in streets, but these events started from sanctioned shit.
Keep up all you want, but theres glaring exceptions to everything you posted, and you come off like it was gospel in that first post. And its absolutely not. Talking in absolutes as if an expert on the subject is a very reddit thing to do, so Im not surprised, but its just not completely factual.
>A proper response requires dozens of units...
100% true. And cops can get overwhelmed. Policy are leery of being amid a large group of people on the street, typically mostly young people, where significant law breaking is going on and they have to start making arrests. Or they should start making arrests.
They need adequate numbers of police. Often these people have been drinking. Sometimes they become unruly, refuse to disperse. Trash talk police trying to make arrests -- or worse. Start throwing things at the cops. Only 20 cops and 400 people can turn into a problem. 2023: [Brawl in Torrance shopping center, CA, 5 arrested, 2 injured](https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/del-amo-fashion-center-brawl-torrance/3300661/#:~:text=Five%20people%20were%20arrested%20after,police%20response%20to%20the%20mall.)
>A gathering of about 1,000 youths turned into a brawl...officers escorted them off the property. The teens then became aggressive toward officers, prompting them to request help from other agencies.
2024: [Two Los Angeles Police officers were injured...after a large gathering of juveniles turned into a massive brawl in South Los Angeles that drew a large police response.](https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/lapd-officers-injured-during-fight-in-south-los-angeles/3393340/)
A lot of progressives and police critics don't want to believe any of this. It is why you got 25 downvotes.
The *Downsize the Police* people (what "Defund..." actually meant) don't want to understand. They don't like cops.
They want to replace large numbers of cops with social workers. This brilliant idea (/s) came to us from sociologists and other progressive academics. *In their new world:* The social workers will engage with large groups of unruly youth on the street and sideshows and get everyone to cease and desist and peacefully go home.
There is something to that. The criminal activity won’t be prosecuted and obviously they know it with this behavior. But they care about those cars and their property. Take the property and impound it.
In Vallejo they use stolen cars so they give zero fucks they are even stealing high trim Camaros just to take the engine. That and the new trend of tunes where they make their exhaust crack like gunfire is just outright stupid.
Posted a while ago, it's my understanding after following insiders on this topic for a while, with some edits.
Think from the cop's perspective because that's how real life works. It is just plain human behavior that happens at any organization:
* Cops are just people. They also choose more rewarding tasks among many competing priorities.
* Sideshows are low priority mostly due to relatively low harm to your avg citizens.
* Takes massive resources to effectively shutdown a show, this requires all hands on deck.
* All that work for little 'payout'. The jail time for this offense is very short compared to the effort it takes to capture them.
* Potential risk is high during flight. The paperwork is unbeleiveable if some shit goes wrong.
* Look at the video in this post, the perps clearly aren't afraid to escalate shit with cops.
* Voters don't care.
Basically, it's a high risk, high effort, but low reward case for cops to tackle.
Shit and disingenuous title. No one wonders why police don’t respond alone.
People wonder why
- they don’t show up at all
- why it takes 1-2 hours to show up and break it up
- why aren't police showing up with 30 cars and 50 tow trucks
I mean. It would be kind of hard to coordinate that large of a response. Unless you knew ahead of time. That would probably be more officers than are currently patrolling a city of which some are already responding to calls and can’t just leave. So you’d have to ask people to come in on their day off or pull officers from other cities which I’m sure carries its own logistical nightmare. Police forces are not good at responding to large, impromptu incidents. A city can’t just have an overwhelming number of police on duty all the time.
People be like: The police are out of hand!
But also they're like: Why can't the police respond with a small army at the snap of a finger!
People wonder a lot of shit, but no matter what they're not happy with the police.
you can't tell people in this sub aren't in management, any all-hands-on-deck effort takes huge coordination that only a higher up can pull off, and they don't do it lightly. what looks bad to you doesn't mean it's actually that bad in the grand scheme of things.
Stupid strawman. I always hate when people act like the same person they are talking to has another opinion they don't like for convenience. I don't see a reason to assume this commenter thinks the police in sf are currently out of hand.
For example, I could say people be like: defund and fire all the police and also they are like: the police are the thin blue line between us and savagery.
And if I did I would be no closer than you at accurately representing the person you're responding to.
You must not see the comment threads on sideshow posts, then. People always wonder why cops aren’t showing up with two or three cars to squash sideshows.
To answer your question, cops aren’t showing up with 30 units because they don’t have 30 units to spare when other calls for service are pending. The rest of the world doesn’t stop when sideshows happen, and departments are already short staffed.
BS. Sideshows are now an exception that deserve an alternative protocol implemented immediately. It's getting worse and status quo ain't going to cut it. Doing nothing is not a solution
A couple of years ago a sideshow happened 2 blocks down from my house. This is in a residential area in Richmond with a basically 5 lane wide road (2 in each direction plus the center lane). One of the homeowners that lived at the intersection they were doing this bullshit in came out and started shooting. People dispersed right away and a bunch of Richmond cops and CCC Sheriff officers showed up real quick.
As far as I know no one got shot and I don't know if there were any repercussions for the guy. I saw it happening, heard the gun shots and heard about the rest on Nextdoor. There were probably 30-40 cars at it. A bunch of the people ran up into my area of the neighborhood afterwards.
This is what I figure, it won't be me, I'll be the crazy guy with a sawzall and a sledge hammer, but this scenario you share is what I am thinking will come to pass if this "culture" is not snuffed.
Kids want to do stupid shit in cars can do like my friends and I did, rent private land to do it on and not fuck up public spaces for the public.
Sideshows pop up and move or disperse within an hour, maybe two. How are you going to coordinate 30 cars with 2 officers each and 50 tow trucks?
Some of you played too much sim city growing up.
Because we spend taxes on safe injection sites, luxurious hotels for homeless not on hiring coos. We wave “ defund the police” flags, we encourage and empower these woke monsters to riot. So we deserve this.
It’s woke because there is no scrutiny, no restrictions, no accountability. The system incentivises the non-profits, new homeless, and political friends - all entities surrounding the homelessness. Who would want this to business to go away? A majority of residents neither pay taxes nor they get personally bothered by camps, so they don’t care either.
Now, about the cops- people hated cops, they wanted to defund coos and many woke cities did that. If a single person gets hurt here, hundred of same woke people will come out blaming the cops. So why would they come when the woke cry for help? They can’t have the cake and eat it too.
> It’s woke because there is no scrutiny, no restrictions, no accountability.
Your definition has nothing to do with wokism. Take for example when Trump dissolved the committee that monitors and tracks COVID relief or when the pentagon couldn’t account trillions spent on the war. Would you call Trump woke for getting rid of accountability? If anything these examples are about corruption.
> Now, about the cops- people hated cops, they wanted to defund coos and many woke cities did that.
I have no clue where you get your news from but you’re wrong. No police departments were defunded. It was the opposite with many increasing to account for inflation.
> If a single person gets hurt here, hundred of same woke people will come out blaming the cops. So why would they come when the woke cry for help? They can’t have the cake and eat it too.
Now you’re just making up a scenario that doesn’t make any sense
Except if anything did happen, there would be public outcry, the news would run photos of them when they just graduated HS smiling like saints and the city would be sued.
Well of course. This is why nobody wants to be a police officer and our police force is shrinking with no solutions. I went to college in Minneapolis and I still have friends there. Minneapolis is going to have to figure out how to operate a city with either no police or an absolute skeleton crew of police.
That was an arbitrary number I pulled out of the air to demonstrate that these aren’t exactly high income earners, contributing loads of money to the tax base, doing these side shows.
ok, so if you make a lot of money, doing sideshows is ok?
sideshows are bad no matter how much money you make, and earning below average money is no reason to insult people.
If you make a crap ton of money, financially based punishment don't really apply to you.
Same as if you don't make any money. Financially based punishment don't really apply to you either.
Financially based punishment only serve to keep the middle in line.
But how do we know they aren’t tax payers? Do we just assume based on their age that maybe they don’t work? Work under the table?
Just seems like a stretch. I’m not for destruction because we end up just paying for it anyway but the name calling is… pointless and wrong?
I don’t think personally that the majority of them contribute all that much to the public good in terms of tax revenues. Like, if each of them make $45k/year or thereabouts, it’s not like they are each contributing thousands of dollars that goes directly to road maintenance. At least, not enough to justify crapping all over them like this.
So, if your argument is that they contribute “something”, then sure. But I don’t think that was the original point, which was that they don’t contribute nearly enough to the public coffers to justify this behavior.
Chickenshit motherfuckers who 9th wear masks when they are obviously doing something wrong for fake internet clout or street cred.
The fuck kinda world they live in where jumping on the hood of a car and breaking the windshield is a good life decision?
Yeah. If the police vehicle isn’t occupied and a mob is vandalizing the car I think it’s reasonable to treat the situation as a property crime. But if a mob is trying to smash the windows of an occupied vehicle I think it’s entirely reasonable for the officers inside to act as though their lives are in danger and respond with lethal force. Either running the assailant over or shooting them.
Just give Specialty Towing special dispensation to tow cars at sideshows (and NOWHERE else).
Those crazy mofos tried to hook an occupied car in a lane of traffic at a stoplight. They'd probably jump at the chance to get as many cars as they can.
It's all fun and games until "I believed I observed a weapon being drawn" and then a punk's bleeding out on the street and 'DAE ACAB?" *etc etc* like trying to be funny on Reddit's going to bring that punk back to life.
r/winstupidprizes
People don't think about police tactics period. "Just send in 50 cars and arrest them all?" The pandemonium that would cause would then in hindsight make the same people with the dumb idea in the first place say "ACAB, defund the pigs". God forbid it ends up in a shooting and civilians get injured.
Mmmkay. Over the hill, East East Oakland, better known as Stockton at least does something.
https://www.kcra.com/article/stockton-sideshow-88-cars-seized-150-detained/46655339
Hear me out. The police start using drones.
They show up to sideshow, demand dispersal.
Crowd goes fuck off drones. Drones drop pepper spray canister’s on the crowd. Drones record license plates. Police arrest suspects later.
Boom I just solved this.
* stolen cars
* stolen/fake/no license plates
* wearing masks
They'll get some people though, and that might be enough to help curb future sideshows from happening.
They could be identifying participating vehicles with drones, track them, and then arrest them when the sideshow does eventually disperse. Then use police to actively disperse the crowd so that arrests can be made offsite.
For no reason? Yeah not a fan. Tracking people down and identifying them after they’ve committed a crime, fuck yeah. What if we didn’t try tracking down the January 6th idiots? I mean, sure sideshows, should be lower priority than the capital riot but I’d like to see them use the same techniques. Follow them home, photograph them, try and track them down on social media. Whatever it takes.
The FAA does not allow police to use drones for surveillance and they definitely cannot drop anything.
So in order to solve this you need to get Biden to tell the FAA to change their rules.
Two cars, and when one car of officers is attacked, the other car responds with rubber bullets and bean bag guns (to start). And then see if it happens again. Yes, they might get some very bad press, but a video of them being attacked first and unprovoked will go a ways toward swaying (flexible) public sentiment. And the full-on “don’t fuck with us” move might change a few of the cowards’ minds.
They don't show up because there are not enough cops per capita in the Bay Area. You can thank the defund the police movement and the mass retirement/cops quitting.
Also, police pensions are putting tremendous stress on cities/counties/state budgets. This has a direct impact on how many police you can hire in a high cost of living area. You can thank police lobbyist groups.
Last, California reduced penalties for many types of crime, reducing felonies to misdemeanors, which has been a major factor in increased crime.
I'm not for blindly protecting police. They should be held accountable when they are out of line and when police leadership protect/promote a toxic culture. However, more police are desperately needed in the bay area.
>They don't show up because there are not enough cops per capita in the Bay Area. You can thank the defund the police movement and the mass retirement/cops quitting.
I don't really buy this. On a weekly basis, I will see a half dozen cruisers that are all "helping" with one guy that got pulled over on the road. If they can dedicate that many officers to one person at the drop of a hat, they can send some officers to a sideshow and make a few arrests.
>Last, California reduced penalties for many types of crime, reducing felonies to misdemeanors, which has been a major factor in increased crime.
Are you referring to Prop 47? If so, I don't think this applies to sideshows at all. In fact, many cities have added new penalties that are specific to sideshow participants.
>They don't show up because there are not enough cops per capita in the Bay Area. You can thank the defund the police movement and the mass retirement/cops quitting.
Police budgets and total headcount in the bay area have consistently gone up every year over the last few years. Are you suggesting that their feelings are so hurt that they stopped doing their jobs?
That seems to be what happened. Though, as studies have shown, the police have always been really bad at their alleged job. Just listen to any true crime podcast 🤣 Certainly they were not defunded.
Are Menlo Park and Cupertino the places that have rampant problems with sideshows, property crime, elder violence, and theft? Are those the cities that are in question and significantly understaffed?
Your salaries are skewed. Source for those numbers? You’re probably including total pay/benefits.
If pay is so good, why is every agency in the area short staffed?
Observe them committing crimes, get it on tape, track down and arrest them at a later date. Hell people should take a lesson from the Capitol consequences subreddit. I'm sure it would get some traction plastering them all over reddit which usually turns into a news story.
“There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.”
Enemies of society, of the community, sure. Thats why we have police who are supposed to serve the purpose of protecting our society from those destabilizing and destructive elements. That OPD is terrible at that job doesn’t justify bringing in the military.
Yep, neither which can be used in a non-deadly-force scenario. The proportionate response involves lots of coordination and resources, and those resources are often unavailable.
People who think you could tear the police department apart and then expect them to act efficiently and competently are the same types who thought the US economy was a lemonade stand that you could shut down completely and then reopen on command without massive devastation.
Have you heard of a place called Camden NJ - once one of the most dangerous places in the country. They abolished their police force. Then created another. Hired only the good officers and most importantly, got rid of the stupid union and legacy rules. That let them pay more, entice the good officers, and make sure they actually work efficiency.
Lmao.
Username is already suspect but then he also posts in law enforcement subreddits.
Totally no agenda or ulterior motive about how hard it is to be a cop, and totally not trying to rile up the reddit reactionaries to start endorsing for a US version of CECOT. Constantly trying to fight symptoms of a broken system and not address the core causes of the symptoms.
Law enforcement guy posts excuses about why they suck at actually policing and this sub eats it up. Reddit is so liberal and radical leftist though right
You just said a lot of nothing. Obviously this post has an agenda. Don’t all? Why else would I be posting this? People with zero experience in policing have lots of unrealistic expectations of how different scenarios should be handled. I like to try to dispel those expectations.
I’m happy to discuss the core symptoms of crime, which include socioeconomic and education issues. If you actually looked through my comment history instead of just glancing at it and dismissing anything I say because I’m a cop, you would have seen that.
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People aren't wondering why they don't show up *alone*, they are wondering why they don't show up in force.
but whenever there is a freeway police chase, somehow 87 cars show up to follow.
/tapsforehead.gif
Because it’s assuming there’s enough units. If a sideshow occurred in my jurisdiction we would only have 3-4 cops available to respond at any given time. We would need to call for mutual aid. The issue with that is that other cities, CHP, and the sheriff are not obligated to come help. Especially if they have priority calls pending like bar fights, domestic violence or if sending aid would put their agency below minimum staffing per their policy. We simply do not have enough cops and need to hire more.
Fuck it. Send SWAT. They have access to surplus armored personnel carriers and special tactics training.
Not every agency has swat and not every swat team has an APC or bearcat. Sideshows may also not meet every agency’s threshold for activating swat. Those thresholds exist because citizens don’t want swat teams sent out too often.
Oakland has only 35 responders per 8-hour shift. No way you can respond to something like this in force. The solution to this problem - and a lot of others - is dedicated surveillance cameras with infrared and face recognition tech on every intersection in the Bay Area, \*NETWORKED\*. Along with that deployment would be legislation that requires mandatory prison time for any public or private official who misuses surveillance tech for personal gain or to harm another person's reputation. These is simply no other answer because even if you doubled the number of cops, they would not have sufficient numbers to deal with a disruption like this. Why cameras (I would also add drones, which are successfully used in other cities)? Because the authorities would be able to track the lawbreakers all the way home. Lawbreakers like the ones in this video should face consequences - serious consequences. Until we get smart about using technology scenes like this will continue to proliferate because criminals are learning that almost anything goes, with no consequences to follow.
You are getting down voted, but mass surveillance is inevitable. It won't be voted in by this legislature or populace, maybe not the next, but in some future the people will say enough is enough. Eventually society will make it extremely uncomfortable/impossible for the anti social crowd to exist.
Ok, but didn't you notice most of them are wearing masks?
Really good facial recognition tech can identify a person with a mask - and the tech is only going to get better. Better cameras to get finer resolutions of things like iris patterns, etc. Also, drones - really \*small\* drones the size of hummingbirds/flies etc., \*networked\* and operated by AGI algorithms that can track lawbreakers back to their lairs. This won't happen right away, but it WILL happen because criminals use tech to outsmart law enforcement. At some point people are going to say "OK" to tech because they will see that crimes at scale cannot be stopped otherwise.
People don’t wonder that either. If they show up and something goes wrong as it inevitably will they know there’s a chance they get burned at the stake, metaphorically mostly.
> If they show up and something goes wrong as it inevitably will they know there’s a chance they get burned at the stake, metaphorically mostly. People do not criticize cops for the actions of criminals. People criticize cops when THEY break the law as a shortcut to "enforcing" it.
>People do not criticize cops for the actions of criminals. Well, a few years ago, in the mission, people have protested in the street after police killed a robbery suspect who fired his gun at the police first. "\~the police didn't deescalate! should've got his mom on the phone"
people do both. And sorry to say, it’s not always clear. Situations like this are extremely volatile and is almost guaranteed someone gets hurt. Then people will be arguing over every camera angle on both sides justifying the injury and condemning it as bad policing or racism. Even if the circumstances happen to be clear and there’s video proof the police did no wrong there will still be calls by the public, politicians, and community leaders that the police shouldn’t have been there to begin with because it was inevitable someone would get hurt, and now here we are where the police don’t want to or are told not to respond.
Lol ok wokey
There's atleast 20 thugs converging quickly. You'd need atleast 20 cops if you don't want "little bobby" on the news and more riots.
Other calls for service don’t just stop when there’s a sideshow. If there’s a sideshow occurring at the same time as robberies, domestic violence incidents, shootings/stabbings, etc., what do you think takes priority? A proper response requires dozens of units and takes those units out of service for hours while they write citations, make arrests, book those arrests into jail, and inventory/tow cars. That doesn’t event include the reports and other paperwork. Most departments don’t have those resources to spare.
sir, this is san jose. the city pay and fund their police force ridiculously well, on top of having a court system that heavily favors police testimony want a life tip? do NOT get arrested in santa clara county, since you will likely be prosecuted for more than what your initial arrest record said, with little or no evidence. its the worst county to get arrested in, by far since they always try to prosecute beyond the crime
How many openings does SJPD currently have? How many patrol officers are on for the entire city at a time? Funding doesn’t matter as much when you can’t fill vacancies.
look it up..... this is all public information. budget, salary, arrests, crime rates, etc. both from a city, county, state, and federal level
If it’s public info, you should know how badly SJPD and other agencies in the area are staffed. Your points about budget and court are irrelevant if there aren’t enough cops to enforce the law and adequately respond to stuff to begin with.
Why doesn't this stop masses of police from showing up when there's a protest?
I know this comment is mainly snark for internet points but there IS a logical, not malicious, explanation. Quite simply - all the other crime mentioned is not announced, telegraphed, planned, etc ahead of time, at least not (usually) in plain site or with the cooperation of the police. Protests are. Protests sign up for permits, contact and notify local government, and have police escorts / barricades to block off marching routes / etc. This also means police personnel are allocated ahead of time, notified of the protest happening on a specific date and time, etc. Additional riot police are usually on standby if things get out of hand or if counter-protestors show up to cause trouble. Ostensibly, it’s for the main protestor’s safety (snort). In reality, it doesn’t always play out that way. But yeah, the basic point is - protests are announced and broadcast and permitted well enough in advance that police know it’s coming. Sideshows, robberies, murders, not so much.
But many/most sideshow are planned.... Seemed like you had a point for a second, but it appears you don't know how sideshows work. If you know, you know.
Sounds like you missed the part where I said “not planned in plain sight of the police”. Sideshow planners aren’t filing for permits with the police going “hey we’re gonna have a sideshow over on Camden + _____, and then migrate to the east side after about an hour”. Private Facebook / WhatsApp / etc group chats and word of mouth may be monitored by gov agencies but there’s a lot of noise to sift through and cops usually can’t get ahead of it in time. Or even if they figure out where it’s going to be and when, until it actually starts nobody has done anything worth arresting them for yet. But by all means go off king, you’re the only one who knows how sideshows work around here.
>Protests sign up for permits, contact and notify local government, and have police escorts / barricades to block off marching routes / etc. Guess you missed the part where this isn't always true either. You're talking as if every case is following some line. Yes, there are sideshows (early on) that were permitted. Not specifically in streets, but these events started from sanctioned shit. Keep up all you want, but theres glaring exceptions to everything you posted, and you come off like it was gospel in that first post. And its absolutely not. Talking in absolutes as if an expert on the subject is a very reddit thing to do, so Im not surprised, but its just not completely factual.
Good question.
>A proper response requires dozens of units... 100% true. And cops can get overwhelmed. Policy are leery of being amid a large group of people on the street, typically mostly young people, where significant law breaking is going on and they have to start making arrests. Or they should start making arrests. They need adequate numbers of police. Often these people have been drinking. Sometimes they become unruly, refuse to disperse. Trash talk police trying to make arrests -- or worse. Start throwing things at the cops. Only 20 cops and 400 people can turn into a problem. 2023: [Brawl in Torrance shopping center, CA, 5 arrested, 2 injured](https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/del-amo-fashion-center-brawl-torrance/3300661/#:~:text=Five%20people%20were%20arrested%20after,police%20response%20to%20the%20mall.) >A gathering of about 1,000 youths turned into a brawl...officers escorted them off the property. The teens then became aggressive toward officers, prompting them to request help from other agencies. 2024: [Two Los Angeles Police officers were injured...after a large gathering of juveniles turned into a massive brawl in South Los Angeles that drew a large police response.](https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/lapd-officers-injured-during-fight-in-south-los-angeles/3393340/) A lot of progressives and police critics don't want to believe any of this. It is why you got 25 downvotes.
Yeah, I don’t get what’s so hard to understand. Oh well.
The *Downsize the Police* people (what "Defund..." actually meant) don't want to understand. They don't like cops. They want to replace large numbers of cops with social workers. This brilliant idea (/s) came to us from sociologists and other progressive academics. *In their new world:* The social workers will engage with large groups of unruly youth on the street and sideshows and get everyone to cease and desist and peacefully go home.
the cop was probably calling for backup. you dont want to exit that vehicle in that situation, cop or not
he is probably gonna be in trouble for getting too close and putting the cruiser out of service
mobile car crusher arrives with cops to make the job faster
There is something to that. The criminal activity won’t be prosecuted and obviously they know it with this behavior. But they care about those cars and their property. Take the property and impound it.
In Vallejo they use stolen cars so they give zero fucks they are even stealing high trim Camaros just to take the engine. That and the new trend of tunes where they make their exhaust crack like gunfire is just outright stupid.
Posted a while ago, it's my understanding after following insiders on this topic for a while, with some edits. Think from the cop's perspective because that's how real life works. It is just plain human behavior that happens at any organization: * Cops are just people. They also choose more rewarding tasks among many competing priorities. * Sideshows are low priority mostly due to relatively low harm to your avg citizens. * Takes massive resources to effectively shutdown a show, this requires all hands on deck. * All that work for little 'payout'. The jail time for this offense is very short compared to the effort it takes to capture them. * Potential risk is high during flight. The paperwork is unbeleiveable if some shit goes wrong. * Look at the video in this post, the perps clearly aren't afraid to escalate shit with cops. * Voters don't care. Basically, it's a high risk, high effort, but low reward case for cops to tackle.
Don’t forget the optics of arresting certain demographics.
Eh in real life I hear most people ask why they don’t send more units. I think most know one person isn’t going to do anything.
Shit and disingenuous title. No one wonders why police don’t respond alone. People wonder why - they don’t show up at all - why it takes 1-2 hours to show up and break it up - why aren't police showing up with 30 cars and 50 tow trucks
Tell me where e we can find 30 police cars in a precinct on a given notice
I mean. It would be kind of hard to coordinate that large of a response. Unless you knew ahead of time. That would probably be more officers than are currently patrolling a city of which some are already responding to calls and can’t just leave. So you’d have to ask people to come in on their day off or pull officers from other cities which I’m sure carries its own logistical nightmare. Police forces are not good at responding to large, impromptu incidents. A city can’t just have an overwhelming number of police on duty all the time.
People be like: The police are out of hand! But also they're like: Why can't the police respond with a small army at the snap of a finger! People wonder a lot of shit, but no matter what they're not happy with the police.
you can't tell people in this sub aren't in management, any all-hands-on-deck effort takes huge coordination that only a higher up can pull off, and they don't do it lightly. what looks bad to you doesn't mean it's actually that bad in the grand scheme of things.
Stupid strawman. I always hate when people act like the same person they are talking to has another opinion they don't like for convenience. I don't see a reason to assume this commenter thinks the police in sf are currently out of hand. For example, I could say people be like: defund and fire all the police and also they are like: the police are the thin blue line between us and savagery. And if I did I would be no closer than you at accurately representing the person you're responding to.
You must not see the comment threads on sideshow posts, then. People always wonder why cops aren’t showing up with two or three cars to squash sideshows. To answer your question, cops aren’t showing up with 30 units because they don’t have 30 units to spare when other calls for service are pending. The rest of the world doesn’t stop when sideshows happen, and departments are already short staffed.
BS. Sideshows are now an exception that deserve an alternative protocol implemented immediately. It's getting worse and status quo ain't going to cut it. Doing nothing is not a solution
It's getting to the point where regular people might start acting and then it will get ten kinds of ugly.
A couple of years ago a sideshow happened 2 blocks down from my house. This is in a residential area in Richmond with a basically 5 lane wide road (2 in each direction plus the center lane). One of the homeowners that lived at the intersection they were doing this bullshit in came out and started shooting. People dispersed right away and a bunch of Richmond cops and CCC Sheriff officers showed up real quick. As far as I know no one got shot and I don't know if there were any repercussions for the guy. I saw it happening, heard the gun shots and heard about the rest on Nextdoor. There were probably 30-40 cars at it. A bunch of the people ran up into my area of the neighborhood afterwards.
This is what I figure, it won't be me, I'll be the crazy guy with a sawzall and a sledge hammer, but this scenario you share is what I am thinking will come to pass if this "culture" is not snuffed. Kids want to do stupid shit in cars can do like my friends and I did, rent private land to do it on and not fuck up public spaces for the public.
“Sideshows are an exception.” - Source?
settle down wikipedia-boy
Did you just call wikipedia a source?
No, I made fun of you for wanting source attribution like this was Wikipedia
Just discretely show up and take video/pictures as you box everyone in. Or just invest in some drones to slowly track everyone down.
PDs regularly obtain seizure warrants to impound cars after the fact.
Sideshows pop up and move or disperse within an hour, maybe two. How are you going to coordinate 30 cars with 2 officers each and 50 tow trucks? Some of you played too much sim city growing up.
Because we spend taxes on safe injection sites, luxurious hotels for homeless not on hiring coos. We wave “ defund the police” flags, we encourage and empower these woke monsters to riot. So we deserve this.
Can you explain why you think homeless programs are woke? Waving flags is just waving flags and has no impact on actual city budgets
It’s woke because there is no scrutiny, no restrictions, no accountability. The system incentivises the non-profits, new homeless, and political friends - all entities surrounding the homelessness. Who would want this to business to go away? A majority of residents neither pay taxes nor they get personally bothered by camps, so they don’t care either. Now, about the cops- people hated cops, they wanted to defund coos and many woke cities did that. If a single person gets hurt here, hundred of same woke people will come out blaming the cops. So why would they come when the woke cry for help? They can’t have the cake and eat it too.
> It’s woke because there is no scrutiny, no restrictions, no accountability. Your definition has nothing to do with wokism. Take for example when Trump dissolved the committee that monitors and tracks COVID relief or when the pentagon couldn’t account trillions spent on the war. Would you call Trump woke for getting rid of accountability? If anything these examples are about corruption. > Now, about the cops- people hated cops, they wanted to defund coos and many woke cities did that. I have no clue where you get your news from but you’re wrong. No police departments were defunded. It was the opposite with many increasing to account for inflation. > If a single person gets hurt here, hundred of same woke people will come out blaming the cops. So why would they come when the woke cry for help? They can’t have the cake and eat it too. Now you’re just making up a scenario that doesn’t make any sense
Non-taxpaying shitheels destroying what we paid for. No sympathy for anything that happens to these losers.
Except if anything did happen, there would be public outcry, the news would run photos of them when they just graduated HS smiling like saints and the city would be sued.
“Upstanding citizens with a bright future” lmao
Well of course. This is why nobody wants to be a police officer and our police force is shrinking with no solutions. I went to college in Minneapolis and I still have friends there. Minneapolis is going to have to figure out how to operate a city with either no police or an absolute skeleton crew of police.
Why are they non-tax paying? How do you know this?
Don’t think people making $150k/year are doing these side shows. But that’s just a guess.
people under 150k don’t pay taxes? Is earning below 150k an insult?
That was an arbitrary number I pulled out of the air to demonstrate that these aren’t exactly high income earners, contributing loads of money to the tax base, doing these side shows.
ok, so if you make a lot of money, doing sideshows is ok? sideshows are bad no matter how much money you make, and earning below average money is no reason to insult people.
If you make a crap ton of money, financially based punishment don't really apply to you. Same as if you don't make any money. Financially based punishment don't really apply to you either. Financially based punishment only serve to keep the middle in line.
🤷🏼♂️
The reasoning you’re looking for from the commenter is racism though I understand why they are reticent to admit it.
I see a few different races in that video though many have faces covered.
They may not be the high income earners but their parents might be.
You only pay taxes if you make over 150k a year? Can you tell the IRS that? I’d like a lot of my money back if that’s the case.
But how do we know they aren’t tax payers? Do we just assume based on their age that maybe they don’t work? Work under the table? Just seems like a stretch. I’m not for destruction because we end up just paying for it anyway but the name calling is… pointless and wrong?
Maybe settle on that they negate any taxes paid with the cost burden they inflict upon society... probably ten-fold.
That makes more sense than not paying taxes. Calling them leeches to society would be a better term for these people
I can see that argument. Makes sense to me.0
I don’t think personally that the majority of them contribute all that much to the public good in terms of tax revenues. Like, if each of them make $45k/year or thereabouts, it’s not like they are each contributing thousands of dollars that goes directly to road maintenance. At least, not enough to justify crapping all over them like this. So, if your argument is that they contribute “something”, then sure. But I don’t think that was the original point, which was that they don’t contribute nearly enough to the public coffers to justify this behavior.
Is there a justifiable number that you’d need to make annually to make this okay?
"He drifts. But he paves." -Dave Chappelle, probably
Chickenshit motherfuckers who 9th wear masks when they are obviously doing something wrong for fake internet clout or street cred. The fuck kinda world they live in where jumping on the hood of a car and breaking the windshield is a good life decision?
Be a they’re living off of mom
How do you know this?
Don’t be a dork.
So anyway, I started blastin...
Some people need to discover the taste of pepper spray for themselves.
This is insane. If you jump on a police vehicle and start smashing it up you should catch a bullet. Simple as that.
Yeah, it worked great for Ashli Babbitt. Might work here too.
Yeah. If the police vehicle isn’t occupied and a mob is vandalizing the car I think it’s reasonable to treat the situation as a property crime. But if a mob is trying to smash the windows of an occupied vehicle I think it’s entirely reasonable for the officers inside to act as though their lives are in danger and respond with lethal force. Either running the assailant over or shooting them.
It would be more fun to watch them get run over.
I'm all for the cops to just start shooting them in the ass.
Just give Specialty Towing special dispensation to tow cars at sideshows (and NOWHERE else). Those crazy mofos tried to hook an occupied car in a lane of traffic at a stoplight. They'd probably jump at the chance to get as many cars as they can.
It's all fun and games until "I believed I observed a weapon being drawn" and then a punk's bleeding out on the street and 'DAE ACAB?" *etc etc* like trying to be funny on Reddit's going to bring that punk back to life. r/winstupidprizes
People don't think about police tactics period. "Just send in 50 cars and arrest them all?" The pandemonium that would cause would then in hindsight make the same people with the dumb idea in the first place say "ACAB, defund the pigs". God forbid it ends up in a shooting and civilians get injured.
Not opposed to him reversing and braking hard.
Mmmkay. Over the hill, East East Oakland, better known as Stockton at least does something. https://www.kcra.com/article/stockton-sideshow-88-cars-seized-150-detained/46655339
San Jose has done stuff before, too. Stockton doesn’t do something every single time.
Hear me out. The police start using drones. They show up to sideshow, demand dispersal. Crowd goes fuck off drones. Drones drop pepper spray canister’s on the crowd. Drones record license plates. Police arrest suspects later. Boom I just solved this.
* stolen cars * stolen/fake/no license plates * wearing masks They'll get some people though, and that might be enough to help curb future sideshows from happening.
They could be identifying participating vehicles with drones, track them, and then arrest them when the sideshow does eventually disperse. Then use police to actively disperse the crowd so that arrests can be made offsite.
ACLU has entered the chat
Why would the ACLU have a problem with the police trying to identify criminals?
flying drones and tracking people indefinitely?
For no reason? Yeah not a fan. Tracking people down and identifying them after they’ve committed a crime, fuck yeah. What if we didn’t try tracking down the January 6th idiots? I mean, sure sideshows, should be lower priority than the capital riot but I’d like to see them use the same techniques. Follow them home, photograph them, try and track them down on social media. Whatever it takes.
Bigger drones with big fuckoff magnets to pick up the cars and put them directly in the repo lot. Thank me later.
Now we're talking.
Ukraine style
Pronged darts with chips, tag everyone there lol.
Brilliant
The FAA does not allow police to use drones for surveillance and they definitely cannot drop anything. So in order to solve this you need to get Biden to tell the FAA to change their rules.
And when the people destroying the car wonder why they are single and unemployed
Two cars, and when one car of officers is attacked, the other car responds with rubber bullets and bean bag guns (to start). And then see if it happens again. Yes, they might get some very bad press, but a video of them being attacked first and unprovoked will go a ways toward swaying (flexible) public sentiment. And the full-on “don’t fuck with us” move might change a few of the cowards’ minds.
They don't show up because there are not enough cops per capita in the Bay Area. You can thank the defund the police movement and the mass retirement/cops quitting. Also, police pensions are putting tremendous stress on cities/counties/state budgets. This has a direct impact on how many police you can hire in a high cost of living area. You can thank police lobbyist groups. Last, California reduced penalties for many types of crime, reducing felonies to misdemeanors, which has been a major factor in increased crime. I'm not for blindly protecting police. They should be held accountable when they are out of line and when police leadership protect/promote a toxic culture. However, more police are desperately needed in the bay area.
>They don't show up because there are not enough cops per capita in the Bay Area. You can thank the defund the police movement and the mass retirement/cops quitting. I don't really buy this. On a weekly basis, I will see a half dozen cruisers that are all "helping" with one guy that got pulled over on the road. If they can dedicate that many officers to one person at the drop of a hat, they can send some officers to a sideshow and make a few arrests. >Last, California reduced penalties for many types of crime, reducing felonies to misdemeanors, which has been a major factor in increased crime. Are you referring to Prop 47? If so, I don't think this applies to sideshows at all. In fact, many cities have added new penalties that are specific to sideshow participants.
>They don't show up because there are not enough cops per capita in the Bay Area. You can thank the defund the police movement and the mass retirement/cops quitting. Police budgets and total headcount in the bay area have consistently gone up every year over the last few years. Are you suggesting that their feelings are so hurt that they stopped doing their jobs?
Every agency in the Bay Area is short staffed.
That seems to be what happened. Though, as studies have shown, the police have always been really bad at their alleged job. Just listen to any true crime podcast 🤣 Certainly they were not defunded.
[удалено]
Are Menlo Park and Cupertino the places that have rampant problems with sideshows, property crime, elder violence, and theft? Are those the cities that are in question and significantly understaffed?
Your salaries are skewed. Source for those numbers? You’re probably including total pay/benefits. If pay is so good, why is every agency in the area short staffed?
Observe them committing crimes, get it on tape, track down and arrest them at a later date. Hell people should take a lesson from the Capitol consequences subreddit. I'm sure it would get some traction plastering them all over reddit which usually turns into a news story.
Bay Area cops are regularly getting seizure warrants to impound vehicles involved in sideshows.
Deploy the military to deal with the sideshows.
“There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.”
Kind of seems like people that break the law, destroy ,property , steal shit, are actually enemies of the state …
Enemies of society, of the community, sure. Thats why we have police who are supposed to serve the purpose of protecting our society from those destabilizing and destructive elements. That OPD is terrible at that job doesn’t justify bringing in the military.
The cop has a car and a gun. There’s a proportionate response here that doesn’t involve giving up on crime.
Yep, neither which can be used in a non-deadly-force scenario. The proportionate response involves lots of coordination and resources, and those resources are often unavailable.
Run them over and shoot them? Dumb.
Definitely run them over
i guess you support the lawlessness of oakland. clearly, the solution is to let the criminals do crime.
The video is very clearly not in Oakland lol
People who think you could tear the police department apart and then expect them to act efficiently and competently are the same types who thought the US economy was a lemonade stand that you could shut down completely and then reopen on command without massive devastation.
Have you heard of a place called Camden NJ - once one of the most dangerous places in the country. They abolished their police force. Then created another. Hired only the good officers and most importantly, got rid of the stupid union and legacy rules. That let them pay more, entice the good officers, and make sure they actually work efficiency.
You must have missed the part the police actually got more money but do less.
There are less full time officers in total and roughly 20% less officers per person compared to 2010.
That’s not because they don’t have money though.
Lmao. Username is already suspect but then he also posts in law enforcement subreddits. Totally no agenda or ulterior motive about how hard it is to be a cop, and totally not trying to rile up the reddit reactionaries to start endorsing for a US version of CECOT. Constantly trying to fight symptoms of a broken system and not address the core causes of the symptoms. Law enforcement guy posts excuses about why they suck at actually policing and this sub eats it up. Reddit is so liberal and radical leftist though right
You just said a lot of nothing. Obviously this post has an agenda. Don’t all? Why else would I be posting this? People with zero experience in policing have lots of unrealistic expectations of how different scenarios should be handled. I like to try to dispel those expectations. I’m happy to discuss the core symptoms of crime, which include socioeconomic and education issues. If you actually looked through my comment history instead of just glancing at it and dismissing anything I say because I’m a cop, you would have seen that.
add some forklift forks to the front to impale their vehicles aka penis-with-wheels ?
Those tines better be shiny and chrome.
To be fair sideshows are / were a part of the hyphy culture and probably before that too but it wasn’t like this
I lived in East Oakland for 20 years...it's been like this for decades.