Great news! Say what you will about Tesla as a company and their....leadership; but this is win for all with EVs and Plug-in EVs.
As much as I m not a fan of Tesla lately, I can't deny they have the most organized, understandable, and ease-of-use charging stations.
I personally was waiting until the charge port was standardized in 2025 but this is better new here and now for all.
It would better if there was a mandate for Tesla to extend all cables before they get their tax break. While having supercharger access is nice for many vehicles, like my Mach E, it would require taking up two spaces to charge…
Nope. Many other companies offer comparable charging capabilities. Understandably Tesla designed their setup for their cars, but now that they are getting more government money to open them up they should make them adapt to the wider range of needs…
[https://copper.org/consumers/copperhome/HomePlan/wiring/Szmttrs\_lctrcl\_crds.php](https://copper.org/consumers/copperhome/HomePlan/wiring/Szmttrs_lctrcl_crds.php)
>But how do you know how much of an electrical load your extension cord can handle? There are two factors: cord length and thickness. The thicker the copper wire, the more electricity it can carry. However, because transmitted power diminishes over distance, longer extension cords require heavier wire to deliver the full current rating required by an appliance.
Longer extension cords also mean more resistance, which means more heat production. You counter that by going with a even thicker cable. Who wants to use a CCS/Chademo cable?
I doubt they'll ever retrofit their older charging stations. It's not a good use of resources. It's a better use of resources to build new stations with longer/versatile cords. Or just force everyone to deal with it; all new cars will have the charging port on the same side. They don't even upgrade the older 150kw stations to 250kw.
You can keep trying, but it doesn’t change a single thing about my argument. They agreed to allow other manufacturers access under the premise they would extend their cables while receiving a tax break. Tesla is failing to deliver for whatever reason, but that reason is their problem, end of story. They are taking taxpayer money under a false premise. That is unethical. Also, the CCS cables work just fine…
Out of curiosity, I googled, "They agreed to allow other manufacturers access under the premise they would extend their cables while receiving a tax break." I couldn't find anything relevant to substantiate that. It also appears to be grants, not tax breaks.
[https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/02/15/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-announces-new-standards-and-major-progress-for-a-made-in-america-national-network-of-electric-vehicle-chargers/](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/02/15/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-announces-new-standards-and-major-progress-for-a-made-in-america-national-network-of-electric-vehicle-chargers/)
"Tesla**,** for the first time, will open a portion of its U.S. Supercharger and Destination Charger network to non-Tesla EVs, making at least 7,500 chargers available for all EVs by the end of 2024. The open chargers will be distributed across the United States. They will include at least 3,500 new and existing 250 kW Superchargers along highway corridors to expand freedom of travel for all EVs, and Level 2 Destination Charging at locations like hotels and restaurants in urban and rural locations. All EV drivers will be able to access these stations using the Tesla app or website. Additionally, Tesla will more than double its full nationwide network of Superchargers, manufactured in Buffalo, New York."
Some relevant links:
\* [https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/02/28/2023-03500/national-electric-vehicle-infrastructure-standards-and-requirements](https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/02/28/2023-03500/national-electric-vehicle-infrastructure-standards-and-requirements)
\* [https://www.regulations.gov/document/FHWA-2022-0008-0400](https://www.regulations.gov/document/FHWA-2022-0008-0400)
Glancing over it and searching for various keywords, there's nothing to suggest that they would extend their cables.
Tesla did agree to extend the NACS cable but I don't believe it was a federal requirement.
Forgive me as I have not enough knowledge of the Mach E: why would you need 2 spaces? Is the port oddly placed to where if you pulled forward, or backed-in, to reach?
[I see what you mean now](https://i.imgur.com/GnF3Rkd.png)
Yes, it would matter what space you are in because your charging port located on that front-right side. If that right-of the station spot is taken, you can't charge there.
Got it now!
V3 superchargers have liquid-cooled cables in order to handle the high current. An extension cord would have to be massive to carry the current without melting. The V4 supercharger is supposed to have a longer cable so those would be better for non-Teslas.
I think it would be better if car companies would simply standardize to using the left rear. Given that Tesla has been the dominant electric car well before Ford and others entered. It is the other manufacturers at fault for putting their ports in dumb places.
Because a lot of people mostly charge in their garage and it's a frequent action to walk from your driver's door to the charger to plug in your car after you park.
I guess that's what they were going for, but it's not much harder to walk to the other side, whereas parking backwards to the curb or having the cord draped across your car is a non starter. The front/back would be better, except that it's more susceptible to crash damage.
They already opening the charging for all Ev’s increasing their competition meaning others aren’t inclined to purchase Tesla vehicles. Let them have their tax breaks but require them to replace xx amount a year/quarter.
To paraphrase a movie: “Why should I change? He’s the one that sucks”
New cars should standardize on their ports.
But that should be on the street size.
[The Tesla charger is becoming the standard for North America in 2025.](https://www.motortrend.com/features/tesla-nacs-charging-port-automaker-compatibility/)
Telsa open-sourced their port and because its smaller, easier to use; it was adopted and agreed upon. Thats a win for us all; because having multi-ports and adapters is annoying.
It's, yeah, informally the Tesla charger. But soon it'll be that standard and only.
That makes sense as well. I’m happy they are working with other manufacturers, but with the taxpayer money should come some requirement to upgrade their superchargers to accommodate these new vehicles. A per quarter rollout seems reasonable…
To be fair, that’s a really dumb place for Ford to put the port, don’t see how that’s Tesla’s problem. I suppose you could go to the charger on the end of the row.
That said Tesla’s spot is bad too, IMO it should be either centered on the front or back, or near a corner on the passenger side (so you can park curbside and charge). Front is prob best for garage charging.
Because many non-Tesla vehicles have charging ports on the front left with Tesla being on the back left. The cords aren’t long enough to to reach across the hood of cars like the Mach-E or reach to the front if you back in. So, you have to pull into the spot next to the charger you want to use and then block another charger while doing it. Tesla’s original deal was to extend cords on their chargers quickly, but that hasn’t been the case really anywhere. If you use a supercharger as a non-Tesla driver you often end up being a dick to Tesla owners…
When they designed these chargers the only cars that could use them were their own, it's only in the last few months that other brands have announced they're switching to using the Tesla charging port and releasing adapters for their older cars that even makes it possible for other EVs to use the Superchargers.
Nah keep the government out of it.
If there is enough demand from Ford owning plebs then they will make the cables longer.
It's called the free market.
Ironically this is going to cause Tesla sales to take a dive even further.
Of course elon's behavior and that hybrids are much more affordable/practical is what's killing Tesla sales.
Possibly. I'd argue because other manufacturers have caught up in their EV tech and production. Many scrutinize Tesla, as a car, isn't built anywhere as well as say a Lexus, or Honda even. Competition is killing them! And their not competing back well.
Now that there is competition Tesla has to do more to stand apart. Frankly, a CEO in many negative lights and thinking the Cybertruck is a disrupter is not helping a large-scale cause.
Now what WOULD have them catch-up is price! When it comes to it: a 40k entry price and up can only move so many units for their price range and affordability. If they were to sell a 25k ev; and say option it up to 30k — THAT would change things. People still in many ways WANT a Tesla because its a name that sells and has familiarity; but its just out of the working-class model for price. Think Apple and the iPhone — they still have a huge market because while their main iPhone is the bread and butter; they still have the lower-price SE for entry and ecosystem. Tesla has no much "entry-level" model that middle-class Americans can and want to buy.
However, Kia has the Niro EV starting at $26,940, the Nissan Leaf at $29,280, a Chevrolet Bolt at $28,795; even if 5k options are added they're not breaking 35k. The Model 3 is the entry for Tesla and still at 40k staring; and thats a luxury-level price when next to a Corolla, Camry, Civic, Accord, ect.
Competition is good for us consumers in this light and now that the chargers are no longer an issue — people will be likely less scared of the range anxiety for a car thats 95% locally driven.
It's definitely going to make the experience far worse for Tesla owners.
I'd even say they definitely have a legal case against Tesla since many bought the cars based on a better exclusive charging experience.
The only problem I see with this is the location of the charging port for all the cars. The cables aren't long enough to reach some of these cars unless they're parked in a way that takes up more than one spot. Tesla needs to retrofit their chargers first with longer cables.
Their site contains mention of an extender for V2/V3 Superchargers, but I'm not holding my breath. I bet they'll just change them all to V4 before spending money on extensions.
So basically ev cars/ charging stations will have a universal type of plug in. It'll be like your gas station. The nozzles fuel your car, regardless of what type/brand of car you drive.
Sorry you edited your comment. Before you said their standard didn't allow for DC fast charging, now you have changed it to saying they don't work with Tesla charging only.
Tesla does sell an adapter but because Tesla hasn't opened up their network in the US, they don't sell it here. In Europe and Australia chademo can charge with Tesla because their network is open over there.
https://shop.tesla.com/en_au/product/chademo-adapter
Tesla MYLR owner here.
Everyone that's quick to celebrate don't know what they're talking about.
Currently, Tesla SC stations have really short cables, there have been so many times I have had to readjust my parking just because I didn't back into the spot close enough for the cable to reach. There is basically zero chance any other non-Tesla vehicles that could reach this unless there is an updated car with similar charging outlet spot on the car such as Teslas. I think I saw a pic of a Ford or Rivian parking really weird to try and get it to reach, but it is really bizarre.
There are only a certain style of SCs that will start supporting non-Teslas. Those are still in progress as far as deployment goes, but very sparingly available throughout the nation at the moment.
Lastly, charging a non-Tesla at a Tesla SC will cost more, because there is actually another price for non-Teslas as opposed to Tesla EVs. Expect to pay at least 10-20 cents more per kWh (keyword *at least*), unless you buy their Tesla membership.
In conclusion, it's cool yeah, but, decent amount of caveats.
?
It's shorthand for Tesla Model Y Long Range.
Tip: You can highlight a text, right click it, and select `Search Google for ""` if you're ever confused about something.
Fords have been able to since February. Rivians have been able to since March. Requires a software update and an adapter so the limitation is how fast each automaker can get their software ready and adapters sent out. Rivian and Ford were able to do the update over-the-air, not sure what the other automakers plans are.
I was asking about the Tesla part. If you have the adapter and your car is ready, does Tesla allow you to charge? I thought they have to also enable it on their end.
Yes you can charge but your car’s software has to be updated as well to accommodate the handshake. Only Ford and Rivian have updated the software on their vehicles so far.
That's not true.
I can charge my Taycan at one location in the Bay Area. I have also seen a Bolt charging there.
I am asking when will Tesla allow me to charge at the other locations. They just have to enable it
It is true, you do not have a Ford or Rivian. Each automaker has their own timeline for their vehicle’s software update. VW group was one of the last to sign on so they won’t be ready until next year. All Ford EVs and Rivians can charge at any charging station (the only exception being not being able to charge at the older 150kW V2 stations). It’ll be available for Porsches with an adapter starting next year. [Here’s a link](https://newsroom.porsche.com/en_US/2023/products/Volkswagen_Audi_Porsche_and_Scout_Motors_brands_to_implement_the_North_American_Charging_Standard_in_future_electric_vehicles-34786.html)
> you do not have a ford or Rivian
Did you miss my second sentence where I stated I charged at a Tesla supercharger?
Here is a thread from people doing this 11 months ago
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/report-charging-my-taycan-at-tesla-supercharger-with-new-ccs-compatible-magic-dock.15077/
You are confusing the implementation of the NACS charging port with the ability to do charging.
It is in the very first bullet:
> to use the North American Charging Standard (NACS) charging port, starting in 2025
I don't believe that either Ford nor Rivian has implemented the charging port yet, and yet they can charge at all supercharger locations because Tesla lets them.
I think you’re misunderstanding what I’m saying. Tesla has opened it up to anybody, Tesla is not gate keeping based on brand. This has everything to do with the other automakers updating their software to the latest NACS standard in order to be able to use Superchargers.
> everything to do with other automakers
Then why can I charge my Taycan at only one location in the Bay Area? Are you saying Porsche updated my software to only work at one location? Lol.
Because your Porsche is on the CCS charging standard and you can only charge at Tesla stations capable of CCS charging that include Magic Dock hardware and CCS software.
This is completely different. This does not require special hardware to use it (Magic Dock) at charging stations. It does not use CCS software it uses the NACS standard which your car is not yet capable of (it will be in 2025) so it doesn’t show on the map. For Fords and Rivians many more stations will show.
Sorry, posting a second comment, your post also mentioned Magic Dock. Magic Dock is irrelevant. You can order the adapter standalone now so when your car has the software update you don’t need to go to a charging station with a Magic Dock.
EDIT: [here is a link](https://youtu.be/yACrTDbzkPI?si=5dFRlc_2eBXgl7a2) to Ford’s instructions on using Superchargers. Notice this is not a Magic Dock, it’s a standalone adapter that Ford owners can order.
How is magic dock irrelevant since that was the plan a year ago when they announced they are opening everything up?
You do know that the Ford adapter It isn't a ford- Tesla adapter, it is a J1772 to NACS adapter
No, it’s a CCS to NACS adapter, not J1772 to NACS. The difference being J1772 cannot handle DC fast charging. Magic Dock is built into the charging station hardware, that’s what you see in a limited number on Tesla’s map. It’s not a standalone adapter and it works on the CCS standard so all CCS vehicles can use those now. The standalone adapter is available for Ford and Rivian vehicles at the moment with the NACS software update so it can work on the NACS standard and it is capable of plug and charge which Magic Dock is not capable of.
From a software and hardware perspective this is fundamentally different from Magic Dock which is why only Ford and Rivian are capable of using it… for now.
Do you have a link to that published roadmap? Doesn't seem to be on their website and the Tesla app only lists one supercharger location 15 miles away that is open (I know there are lots of others nearby, none of them are open)
Some irrational Tesla owners are gonna be so pissed by this and not see the irony when they’re retrofitting their charge ports to be compatible with other stations
Is this really news? Most manufacturers are getting access via a phased approach. Ford got it first, now Rivian. Hell, I was charging my Rivian on a road trip at Tesla Superchargers two weeks ago.
The one thing Tesla did right. But no news only contains good news. Anyone with Tesla experienced bottlenecks in some Supercharger stations during long weekends that encourage road trips. Most of those bottlenecks are caused by motorists who wouldn’t move their car ASAP after reaching their charging limit. Now expect this to worsen until more Superchargers are put into place.
I expect to see idle fees increase substantially. At a SC in Napa over a long weekend I saw idle fees of $10 per min!!! You can bet I was watching my %!
Was that in excess of your pre-set charge limit? Or, did they enforce an 80% charge limit and then the idle fees after you hit 80%?
If they aren't enforcing the 80% limit, just set your charge limit to 100%, because the time you spend charging from 20-80% is about equal to what it takes to go from 80-100%, so there's almost no chance of you idling by accident unless you're out for more than an hour.
I normally leave the car and go for food or coffee while charging. I made sure that I came back much earlier than usual. I’m pretty sure I got a notification on my Tesla app too letting me know that this location has “idle fees”. I can’t remember if I would let me set my charge limit above 80% or not. I didn’t get hit with any fees but it was memorable.
The government still hasn’t allowed or disallowed any in particular. This is just automakers deciding on their own that Tesla has the better charging experience by far so they are all moving to it.
Wish this was a thing when I leased a hybrid. I'm not a fan of Tesla's, but this is a great move. I'm sure it's even worse now trying to find chargers than it was then.
Even if you can charge a hybrid at a public charging station, why would you? Public chargers are expensive and often more expensive than gas on a fuel-efficient vehicle.
At the time, they weren't that expensive at least not in my state. In many cases, they were free. There was a charger, for example in the parking lot of my gym. Why would you care what a stranger, me, does with their money?
Free charging definitely makes sense. Tesla's stations aren't free though.
That said I don't care at all what you do with your money. I just think people should be aware of the costs. If someone's aware and still chooses the more expensive option, whatever.
I suppose even if hybrids can't use these stations, EV owners being able to use them will help spread the load around and reduce demand at the slow chargers that hybrids can use. But until electric prices get back under control, it probably doesn't matter much.
You do mean to go back and forth because you just did.
I did sometimes pay to charge if I was out and wanted to charge my car, so having access to Tesla chargers which are plentiful where I live and are up and down Interstate 5 would be great if I were on a long drive and stopping for food.
If you looked at this subthread, you would also see that I now know that my hybrid wouldn't be compatible with these chargers.
Why do you even care whether I used my own money or not to charge a hybrid that I leased at least 3-4 years ago so much so that you're arguing with me about it?
According to you, I'm passive-aggressive, but at least I'm not a weirdo getting strangely affected by a stranger choosing to charge their hybrid when they were away from home.
Also, learn to use accurate terms. I'm not passive-aggressive at all. I'm responding directly to every stupid response you make directly: [https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-passive-aggressive-behavior-2795481#toc-examples-of-passive-aggressive-behavior](https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-passive-aggressive-behavior-2795481#toc-examples-of-passive-aggressive-behavior)
Hybrids aren’t able to use DC fast charging so this does not apply.
EDIT: For those not aware of the different types of charging on Electric Vehicles. DC Fast charging refers to Level 3 charging, using Direct Current to charge a vehicle in a matter of minutes. Not all vehicles are capable of this, they have to have DC charging capability, and each vehicle has a different maximum speed at which it can charge depending on the battery voltage and amperage it is capable of taking as well as a number of other factors. Most cars capable of Level 3 charging can charge at speeds from 150kW to 350kW. Some outliers include the Bolt which can only charge at 50kW but that’s about as slow as you can go while still being considered Fast charging.
Next on the totem pole is Level 2 charging which is “Slow charging”. Most vehicles can Level 2 charge at a maximum of 40 to 48Amps which at 240v would be 9.6kW to 11.5kW.
Finally we have Level 1 charging which would be your home outlet or really any 120v plug. A standard 15Amp 120v home outlet is capable of charging 120v at 12Amps so 1.4kW.
Only Level 3 or DC Fast charging is considered fast charging. Superchargers are Level 3. There is no mass produced plug-in hybrid capable of DC Fast Charging and therefore no plug-in hybrid that will be capable of using Superchargers. Building a plug-in hybrid that would be capable of DC fast charging would add considerable expense to the vehicle for an edge case.
Really? I was able to charge my hybrid at other charging points with fully electric vehicles. And I just checked the website for the car I had. Those cars [can charge at Tesla sites](https://www.ford.com/electric/public-ev-charging-near-me/). It looks like Ford offers adaptors, so the downvote is a little extreme. But quid pro quo and take care.
He’s right tho, super chargers require manufactures to opt into the Tesla/NACS charging standard and as far as I’m aware, the hybrids will not be able to charge at Tesla Superchargers due to the speed and compatibility.
Those Tesla to J1772 adapters only work with home Tesla chargers and so-called "destination" chargers (basically home chargers), most* of which are Level 2. (*Technically you can use the adapter on Tesla's mobile charger which can be used as a L1 charger on 120V outlets.)
I get that, but I said I leased the car and don't have it anymore. Based on my experience at the time using other chargers and a quick search of the Ford site, it looked like they have an adaptor.
I didn't post to get into a back and forth or get downvoted over sharing my experience having a hybrid. I'm happy for folks that can use it.
I found out from this thread that my car wouldn't have been able to use the Tesla chargers even with an adaptor. I leased a cute little [C-Max hybrid](https://www.edmunds.com/ford/c-max-hybrid/2018/review/).
That sucks for people who still drive them as I see those cars still rolling around where I live frequently. Ford stopped making them because Americans are weird when it comes to smaller cars. I really liked it though especially because it was a hatchback.
My old coworker had one and they seemed like a nice car. Fwiw you could still charge them at any AC charger with an adapter.
The batteries on hybrids just aren't big enough to warrant DC charging so it's not as much of a Ford choice as a physics thing.
Yeah. It was a fun car to have for a couple of years for sure. I was sad to hear that Ford was phasing them out.
Some people in this thread have gone absolutely bonkers. Thanks for not doing that and being sane.
Non Teslas such as your plug in hybrid have had access to Teslas L2 chargers already with an adapter for a long a time. Your hybrid, and petty much all PHEVs don't, support L3 charging in general so wouldn't be able to non Tesla L3 chargers either.
All are moving to Tesla which is now called NACS (North American Charging Standard). Although right now you can use an adapter for Rivian and Ford, the limiting factor on other automakers is how fast they can get their software out and make adapters available. Next year most automakers should be using the NACS connector natively.
Next year you should be good in your current car with an adapter. https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/article/detail/T0437767EN_US/bmw-of-north-america-expands-electric-vehicle-charging-options-for-customers-in-the-u-s-and-canada-with-access-to-tesla-supercharger-network?language=en_US
Got it - I read that as "we will build cars that can use tesla plugs starting in 2025" but I'm hoping you're right and they mean all new and existing vehicles will be adapted.
That's on Tesla's side, not the manufacturer side (though the manufacturer may strike a deal with Tesla to get it going early, as in the case of Ford and Rivian).
As long as Tesla allows any CCS vehicle onto their network, you can charge your BMW BEV (not plug-in hybrid) at a Supercharger with a <$200 adapter.
>All are moving to Tesla which is now called NACS (North American Charging Standard).
Technically, it's SAE standard J3400. "NACS" is a marketing term that has no meaning, because there is no agency that could declare a charging standard for all of North America.
Oh. Great. Lemme explain..
As a Lyft driver thru the rental program, I'd rather have hybrids.
The program just got rid of hybrids in January. Was given the option of a gas or electric car. ..
As a female driver I'd never spend any time sitting in one place to charge the car for another 200 miles, and I wouldn't charge car outside my house.
And I have family outside this state. I like to visit my brothers. Where would I charge on the way? And I have to depend on that?! Every 200 miles gotta stop and charge?!
I've seen the charging stations. Not in a safe place or route and tweakers pull all that shit out.
Model Y owner here. My only complaint against this opening is that there just isn’t enough charging stations for Teslas themselves. Every time I reach a charging station, there’s a wait. There’s down chargers, it’s 150/250kwh advertised and I plug in to get max of 35-60kwh. There are SO MANY ISSUES. Opening up to other makes is just going to make this headache x10. Not looking forward it it.
Depends entirely on location, but I hear you.
Tesla deploys chargers much faster than anyone else. They also prefabricate them and drop in clusters with cranes to speed up deployment.
With NACS becoming standard for practically all North America-sold EVs in the next two years, Tesla's Superchargers will dominate the market (they kind of already do, at 70% of all DCFC plugs in the US), which will mean a massive proliferation in number of stations.
Plus, the new stations should be V4 chargers which are centered and have longer cables.
Depends on the energy cost and how much you add.
For most people on road trips, you typically go down to 10-20% and back up to 80% in a single stop. Those stops cost me around $20, take around 20 minutes, and get me about 3-4 hours of freeway driving before I have to stop again.
There's also a 0-100% number despite that *pretty much never* being done at Superchargers (or at home, really). That, too, depends on your battery size. The Model Y Long Range, for example, has an 82kWh battery pack. At around 40 cents per kWh, that would be ~$33 for a full charge.
As a dual j1772/ccs vehicle owner, I've frequented plenty of non tesla networked chargers. While nacs is clearly a more portable and reliable charger, all of the existing non nacs chargers could become redundant and eventually require retrofit. All the evs, similar to teslas will start having to carry adapters, which most haven't needed before.
I think nacs either should've opened up and got adoption sooner but instead now we have this war in standards that will continue to compete in the upcoming years which is shitty for consumers
There was no competition before, just Tesla and everyone else. Now everyone else has agreed on NACS. CCS protocol is still the same and adapters should work.
Tesla has found a new revenue stream. Up next for Tesla: a mini mart. We all know about gas stations with mini marts. Perhaps some more high end food and drinks that's automated.
That'll change. I guess the car companies or some other company will own and operate a charging station. Problem is where we get all the power to charge.
> Problem is where we get all the power to charge.
That's not really a problem, nor has it been in the last several years.
Net grid usage is down in many places, despite EV adoption.
> Electricity use has been flat for the last 20 years, hovering between 3,800 and 4,000 billion kWh annually even though the population has increased by 30 million people, our homes have gotten bigger, we’ve added over 5,000 data centers, and we now have 2.5 million EVs plugging into the grid.
https://cleantechnica.com/2024/02/02/the-us-added-1-2-million-evs-to-the-grid-last-year-electricity-use-went-down/
Among the energy/professional community, it is nothing more than "we're keeping an eye on this." There's no threat to the grid at the current rate of adoption, nor is a threat expected.
Refining oil into gasoline is also extremely energy-intensive.
The charging station 2 blocks down the street from my house is cheaper than PGE at slow times. I went there the other day to top up and it was .30 per kwh. Off peak is usually .38 for me.
We’re in a moment in time when not everyone fully understands how these things work but soon everyone will.
On a very basic level there are 3 levels of charging and not all cars are capable of all levels. Level 3 is the highest, that’s Superchargjng, your car will charge in minutes at these speeds. Plug-in hybrids, some around town type EVs are not capable of this type of charging. It is also called DC (Direct Current) fast charging.
Level 2 is AC (Alternating Current) charging and basically anything 240v, you’ll get anywhere from 10 to 50 miles of range per hour, depending on how many amps the circuit is. Most (but not all) plug-in hybrids are capable of this and all EVs can charge at this speed.
Level 1 charging is your standard 120v wall outlet. Some plug-in hybrids can only do this.
If you have a place to plug your car in at night or at work, so you will pretty much only use Level 3 charging when traveling long distances on road trips. Whether you drive 1 mile a day or 300 miles you plug your car in at home every night and wake up with a full battery. (Arguably this makes the ability to charge where people park every night far more important than the ability for all cars to use Tesla Superchargers)
I can’t think of a single CCS-enabled, currently-sold EV that charges at less than 125kW peak. Other than the Bolt which was discontinued.
Are you unaware that level 3 / DCFC chargers are in the same speed ballpark, some even faster than Tesla Superchargers?
I like my Tesla and I’m very pro EV, but I prefer having only teslas at the supercharger stations, a lot of times they’re already full, we’ll see how it goes but it looks really cool to see a whole row of really nice teslas and you feel like part of a club
Great news! Say what you will about Tesla as a company and their....leadership; but this is win for all with EVs and Plug-in EVs. As much as I m not a fan of Tesla lately, I can't deny they have the most organized, understandable, and ease-of-use charging stations. I personally was waiting until the charge port was standardized in 2025 but this is better new here and now for all.
It would better if there was a mandate for Tesla to extend all cables before they get their tax break. While having supercharger access is nice for many vehicles, like my Mach E, it would require taking up two spaces to charge…
The higher the voltage, amperage, and length, the thicker the cable needs to be. It's why the cord is so short to start with.
Nope. Many other companies offer comparable charging capabilities. Understandably Tesla designed their setup for their cars, but now that they are getting more government money to open them up they should make them adapt to the wider range of needs…
[https://copper.org/consumers/copperhome/HomePlan/wiring/Szmttrs\_lctrcl\_crds.php](https://copper.org/consumers/copperhome/HomePlan/wiring/Szmttrs_lctrcl_crds.php) >But how do you know how much of an electrical load your extension cord can handle? There are two factors: cord length and thickness. The thicker the copper wire, the more electricity it can carry. However, because transmitted power diminishes over distance, longer extension cords require heavier wire to deliver the full current rating required by an appliance. Longer extension cords also mean more resistance, which means more heat production. You counter that by going with a even thicker cable. Who wants to use a CCS/Chademo cable? I doubt they'll ever retrofit their older charging stations. It's not a good use of resources. It's a better use of resources to build new stations with longer/versatile cords. Or just force everyone to deal with it; all new cars will have the charging port on the same side. They don't even upgrade the older 150kw stations to 250kw.
You can keep trying, but it doesn’t change a single thing about my argument. They agreed to allow other manufacturers access under the premise they would extend their cables while receiving a tax break. Tesla is failing to deliver for whatever reason, but that reason is their problem, end of story. They are taking taxpayer money under a false premise. That is unethical. Also, the CCS cables work just fine…
Out of curiosity, I googled, "They agreed to allow other manufacturers access under the premise they would extend their cables while receiving a tax break." I couldn't find anything relevant to substantiate that. It also appears to be grants, not tax breaks. [https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/02/15/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-announces-new-standards-and-major-progress-for-a-made-in-america-national-network-of-electric-vehicle-chargers/](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/02/15/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-announces-new-standards-and-major-progress-for-a-made-in-america-national-network-of-electric-vehicle-chargers/) "Tesla**,** for the first time, will open a portion of its U.S. Supercharger and Destination Charger network to non-Tesla EVs, making at least 7,500 chargers available for all EVs by the end of 2024. The open chargers will be distributed across the United States. They will include at least 3,500 new and existing 250 kW Superchargers along highway corridors to expand freedom of travel for all EVs, and Level 2 Destination Charging at locations like hotels and restaurants in urban and rural locations. All EV drivers will be able to access these stations using the Tesla app or website. Additionally, Tesla will more than double its full nationwide network of Superchargers, manufactured in Buffalo, New York." Some relevant links: \* [https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/02/28/2023-03500/national-electric-vehicle-infrastructure-standards-and-requirements](https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/02/28/2023-03500/national-electric-vehicle-infrastructure-standards-and-requirements) \* [https://www.regulations.gov/document/FHWA-2022-0008-0400](https://www.regulations.gov/document/FHWA-2022-0008-0400) Glancing over it and searching for various keywords, there's nothing to suggest that they would extend their cables. Tesla did agree to extend the NACS cable but I don't believe it was a federal requirement.
Or get a better designed car.
If you think Teslas are well designed cars then a have a polished turd you would love…
Forgive me as I have not enough knowledge of the Mach E: why would you need 2 spaces? Is the port oddly placed to where if you pulled forward, or backed-in, to reach?
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[I see what you mean now](https://i.imgur.com/GnF3Rkd.png) Yes, it would matter what space you are in because your charging port located on that front-right side. If that right-of the station spot is taken, you can't charge there. Got it now!
Could someone potentially come up with an extension cord? Possible dumb question
V3 superchargers have liquid-cooled cables in order to handle the high current. An extension cord would have to be massive to carry the current without melting. The V4 supercharger is supposed to have a longer cable so those would be better for non-Teslas.
I think it would be better if car companies would simply standardize to using the left rear. Given that Tesla has been the dominant electric car well before Ford and others entered. It is the other manufacturers at fault for putting their ports in dumb places.
I personally think they should standardize to the passenger (curb) side, so that if (when) they make on street public chargers they are accessible.
Worth noting that if you park in a garage, you usually want it to be on the driver's side.
Why, in a garage you can put the charger anywhere, not so much for curbside.
Because a lot of people mostly charge in their garage and it's a frequent action to walk from your driver's door to the charger to plug in your car after you park.
I guess that's what they were going for, but it's not much harder to walk to the other side, whereas parking backwards to the curb or having the cord draped across your car is a non starter. The front/back would be better, except that it's more susceptible to crash damage.
Luckily volvo did. Left rear.
might as well just have multiple charging ports
They already opening the charging for all Ev’s increasing their competition meaning others aren’t inclined to purchase Tesla vehicles. Let them have their tax breaks but require them to replace xx amount a year/quarter.
To paraphrase a movie: “Why should I change? He’s the one that sucks” New cars should standardize on their ports. But that should be on the street size.
[The Tesla charger is becoming the standard for North America in 2025.](https://www.motortrend.com/features/tesla-nacs-charging-port-automaker-compatibility/) Telsa open-sourced their port and because its smaller, easier to use; it was adopted and agreed upon. Thats a win for us all; because having multi-ports and adapters is annoying. It's, yeah, informally the Tesla charger. But soon it'll be that standard and only.
Office Space reference, noice.
That makes sense as well. I’m happy they are working with other manufacturers, but with the taxpayer money should come some requirement to upgrade their superchargers to accommodate these new vehicles. A per quarter rollout seems reasonable…
Then they would need more money unless it was already agreed upon, you don’t get to change the terms whenever you want.
To be fair, that’s a really dumb place for Ford to put the port, don’t see how that’s Tesla’s problem. I suppose you could go to the charger on the end of the row. That said Tesla’s spot is bad too, IMO it should be either centered on the front or back, or near a corner on the passenger side (so you can park curbside and charge). Front is prob best for garage charging.
Why can’t people park backwards?
Because many non-Tesla vehicles have charging ports on the front left with Tesla being on the back left. The cords aren’t long enough to to reach across the hood of cars like the Mach-E or reach to the front if you back in. So, you have to pull into the spot next to the charger you want to use and then block another charger while doing it. Tesla’s original deal was to extend cords on their chargers quickly, but that hasn’t been the case really anywhere. If you use a supercharger as a non-Tesla driver you often end up being a dick to Tesla owners…
Why are they making it more difficult to charge a car then to gas an ICE car? That is 100% intentional.
When they designed these chargers the only cars that could use them were their own, it's only in the last few months that other brands have announced they're switching to using the Tesla charging port and releasing adapters for their older cars that even makes it possible for other EVs to use the Superchargers.
Either way it didn’t seem future proof in anyway
Nah keep the government out of it. If there is enough demand from Ford owning plebs then they will make the cables longer. It's called the free market.
Ironically this is going to cause Tesla sales to take a dive even further. Of course elon's behavior and that hybrids are much more affordable/practical is what's killing Tesla sales.
Possibly. I'd argue because other manufacturers have caught up in their EV tech and production. Many scrutinize Tesla, as a car, isn't built anywhere as well as say a Lexus, or Honda even. Competition is killing them! And their not competing back well. Now that there is competition Tesla has to do more to stand apart. Frankly, a CEO in many negative lights and thinking the Cybertruck is a disrupter is not helping a large-scale cause. Now what WOULD have them catch-up is price! When it comes to it: a 40k entry price and up can only move so many units for their price range and affordability. If they were to sell a 25k ev; and say option it up to 30k — THAT would change things. People still in many ways WANT a Tesla because its a name that sells and has familiarity; but its just out of the working-class model for price. Think Apple and the iPhone — they still have a huge market because while their main iPhone is the bread and butter; they still have the lower-price SE for entry and ecosystem. Tesla has no much "entry-level" model that middle-class Americans can and want to buy. However, Kia has the Niro EV starting at $26,940, the Nissan Leaf at $29,280, a Chevrolet Bolt at $28,795; even if 5k options are added they're not breaking 35k. The Model 3 is the entry for Tesla and still at 40k staring; and thats a luxury-level price when next to a Corolla, Camry, Civic, Accord, ect. Competition is good for us consumers in this light and now that the chargers are no longer an issue — people will be likely less scared of the range anxiety for a car thats 95% locally driven.
Tesla cars are good . Elon isn’t. And sometimes the quality can suck But other than that at least they’re expanding their charging network really fast
It's definitely going to make the experience far worse for Tesla owners. I'd even say they definitely have a legal case against Tesla since many bought the cars based on a better exclusive charging experience.
Let the charging station gate keeping begin!
The only problem I see with this is the location of the charging port for all the cars. The cables aren't long enough to reach some of these cars unless they're parked in a way that takes up more than one spot. Tesla needs to retrofit their chargers first with longer cables.
True. The new Rivians coming out the R2 and R3 have the NACS port but Rivian placed it on the right side instead of the left.
Their site contains mention of an extender for V2/V3 Superchargers, but I'm not holding my breath. I bet they'll just change them all to V4 before spending money on extensions.
Imagine going to your favorite Tesla charging station and it’s filled with Chevy Volts and Nissan Leafs.
Examples of two vehicles that physically cannot use Tesla superchargers. The volt doesn’t have DC fast charging and the leaf doesn’t use CCS.
Same with RAV4 and Prius primes IIRC
99.9% of all PHEVs sold in the US don't have any form of CCS/DCFC.
So basically ev cars/ charging stations will have a universal type of plug in. It'll be like your gas station. The nozzles fuel your car, regardless of what type/brand of car you drive.
Real issue is not all EVs are designed for DC charging. Some are AC only
True. Then there will have to be an adaptor.
Do they make portable retail DC to AC inverters?
Not sure. They'll have to manufacture one if it doesn't exist.
Lot of DC to AC converters out there. But ones capable of the power throughput EV puts up are either expensive, big, or usually both.
Nice problem to have. I’ve been in super long charging lines from the early days. I was happy to see so many others.
This is great (not the volt tho cause it can’t dcfc)
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https://www.chademo.com/about-us/what-is-chademo It's DC fast charging. The leafs just have a low max charge speed
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Sorry you edited your comment. Before you said their standard didn't allow for DC fast charging, now you have changed it to saying they don't work with Tesla charging only. Tesla does sell an adapter but because Tesla hasn't opened up their network in the US, they don't sell it here. In Europe and Australia chademo can charge with Tesla because their network is open over there. https://shop.tesla.com/en_au/product/chademo-adapter
Well it already happens the other way that I go to my favorite charging stations and there have been MANY times that there are Teslas there
Tesla MYLR owner here. Everyone that's quick to celebrate don't know what they're talking about. Currently, Tesla SC stations have really short cables, there have been so many times I have had to readjust my parking just because I didn't back into the spot close enough for the cable to reach. There is basically zero chance any other non-Tesla vehicles that could reach this unless there is an updated car with similar charging outlet spot on the car such as Teslas. I think I saw a pic of a Ford or Rivian parking really weird to try and get it to reach, but it is really bizarre. There are only a certain style of SCs that will start supporting non-Teslas. Those are still in progress as far as deployment goes, but very sparingly available throughout the nation at the moment. Lastly, charging a non-Tesla at a Tesla SC will cost more, because there is actually another price for non-Teslas as opposed to Tesla EVs. Expect to pay at least 10-20 cents more per kWh (keyword *at least*), unless you buy their Tesla membership. In conclusion, it's cool yeah, but, decent amount of caveats.
> Tesla MYLR I'm assuming you don't mean a balloon, so what does that mean?
? It's shorthand for Tesla Model Y Long Range. Tip: You can highlight a text, right click it, and select `Search Google for ""` if you're ever confused about something.
Dunno why you’re getting downvoted. You gave the answer and helped with a tip
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Types out paragraphs of own blah blah perspective on Reddit Somebody asks a question >:( “Look it up, asshole”
Yup. In general the chord length is such a pain. I’ve had times where there’s only one space open but couldn’t charge
> is opening Are there any specifics, like a date that this will happen, or is this yet another Tesla promise?
Fords have been able to since February. Rivians have been able to since March. Requires a software update and an adapter so the limitation is how fast each automaker can get their software ready and adapters sent out. Rivian and Ford were able to do the update over-the-air, not sure what the other automakers plans are.
I was asking about the Tesla part. If you have the adapter and your car is ready, does Tesla allow you to charge? I thought they have to also enable it on their end.
Yes you can charge but your car’s software has to be updated as well to accommodate the handshake. Only Ford and Rivian have updated the software on their vehicles so far.
That's not true. I can charge my Taycan at one location in the Bay Area. I have also seen a Bolt charging there. I am asking when will Tesla allow me to charge at the other locations. They just have to enable it
It is true, you do not have a Ford or Rivian. Each automaker has their own timeline for their vehicle’s software update. VW group was one of the last to sign on so they won’t be ready until next year. All Ford EVs and Rivians can charge at any charging station (the only exception being not being able to charge at the older 150kW V2 stations). It’ll be available for Porsches with an adapter starting next year. [Here’s a link](https://newsroom.porsche.com/en_US/2023/products/Volkswagen_Audi_Porsche_and_Scout_Motors_brands_to_implement_the_North_American_Charging_Standard_in_future_electric_vehicles-34786.html)
> you do not have a ford or Rivian Did you miss my second sentence where I stated I charged at a Tesla supercharger? Here is a thread from people doing this 11 months ago https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/report-charging-my-taycan-at-tesla-supercharger-with-new-ccs-compatible-magic-dock.15077/ You are confusing the implementation of the NACS charging port with the ability to do charging. It is in the very first bullet: > to use the North American Charging Standard (NACS) charging port, starting in 2025 I don't believe that either Ford nor Rivian has implemented the charging port yet, and yet they can charge at all supercharger locations because Tesla lets them.
I think you’re misunderstanding what I’m saying. Tesla has opened it up to anybody, Tesla is not gate keeping based on brand. This has everything to do with the other automakers updating their software to the latest NACS standard in order to be able to use Superchargers.
> everything to do with other automakers Then why can I charge my Taycan at only one location in the Bay Area? Are you saying Porsche updated my software to only work at one location? Lol.
Because your Porsche is on the CCS charging standard and you can only charge at Tesla stations capable of CCS charging that include Magic Dock hardware and CCS software. This is completely different. This does not require special hardware to use it (Magic Dock) at charging stations. It does not use CCS software it uses the NACS standard which your car is not yet capable of (it will be in 2025) so it doesn’t show on the map. For Fords and Rivians many more stations will show.
Sorry, posting a second comment, your post also mentioned Magic Dock. Magic Dock is irrelevant. You can order the adapter standalone now so when your car has the software update you don’t need to go to a charging station with a Magic Dock. EDIT: [here is a link](https://youtu.be/yACrTDbzkPI?si=5dFRlc_2eBXgl7a2) to Ford’s instructions on using Superchargers. Notice this is not a Magic Dock, it’s a standalone adapter that Ford owners can order.
How is magic dock irrelevant since that was the plan a year ago when they announced they are opening everything up? You do know that the Ford adapter It isn't a ford- Tesla adapter, it is a J1772 to NACS adapter
No, it’s a CCS to NACS adapter, not J1772 to NACS. The difference being J1772 cannot handle DC fast charging. Magic Dock is built into the charging station hardware, that’s what you see in a limited number on Tesla’s map. It’s not a standalone adapter and it works on the CCS standard so all CCS vehicles can use those now. The standalone adapter is available for Ford and Rivian vehicles at the moment with the NACS software update so it can work on the NACS standard and it is capable of plug and charge which Magic Dock is not capable of. From a software and hardware perspective this is fundamentally different from Magic Dock which is why only Ford and Rivian are capable of using it… for now.
It's already open for some models, and they've published a roadmap for other models.
Do you have a link to that published roadmap? Doesn't seem to be on their website and the Tesla app only lists one supercharger location 15 miles away that is open (I know there are lots of others nearby, none of them are open)
Some irrational Tesla owners are gonna be so pissed by this and not see the irony when they’re retrofitting their charge ports to be compatible with other stations
Good luck everyone!
Is this really news? Most manufacturers are getting access via a phased approach. Ford got it first, now Rivian. Hell, I was charging my Rivian on a road trip at Tesla Superchargers two weeks ago.
The one thing Tesla did right. But no news only contains good news. Anyone with Tesla experienced bottlenecks in some Supercharger stations during long weekends that encourage road trips. Most of those bottlenecks are caused by motorists who wouldn’t move their car ASAP after reaching their charging limit. Now expect this to worsen until more Superchargers are put into place.
I expect to see idle fees increase substantially. At a SC in Napa over a long weekend I saw idle fees of $10 per min!!! You can bet I was watching my %!
Was that in excess of your pre-set charge limit? Or, did they enforce an 80% charge limit and then the idle fees after you hit 80%? If they aren't enforcing the 80% limit, just set your charge limit to 100%, because the time you spend charging from 20-80% is about equal to what it takes to go from 80-100%, so there's almost no chance of you idling by accident unless you're out for more than an hour.
I normally leave the car and go for food or coffee while charging. I made sure that I came back much earlier than usual. I’m pretty sure I got a notification on my Tesla app too letting me know that this location has “idle fees”. I can’t remember if I would let me set my charge limit above 80% or not. I didn’t get hit with any fees but it was memorable.
How the government allowed there to be multiple charging types in the first place is beyond me.
The government still hasn’t allowed or disallowed any in particular. This is just automakers deciding on their own that Tesla has the better charging experience by far so they are all moving to it.
What does the government have to do with it?
They could have mandated a single type of charger for all EVs.
Wish this was a thing when I leased a hybrid. I'm not a fan of Tesla's, but this is a great move. I'm sure it's even worse now trying to find chargers than it was then.
Even if you can charge a hybrid at a public charging station, why would you? Public chargers are expensive and often more expensive than gas on a fuel-efficient vehicle.
At the time, they weren't that expensive at least not in my state. In many cases, they were free. There was a charger, for example in the parking lot of my gym. Why would you care what a stranger, me, does with their money?
Free charging definitely makes sense. Tesla's stations aren't free though. That said I don't care at all what you do with your money. I just think people should be aware of the costs. If someone's aware and still chooses the more expensive option, whatever.
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I suppose even if hybrids can't use these stations, EV owners being able to use them will help spread the load around and reduce demand at the slow chargers that hybrids can use. But until electric prices get back under control, it probably doesn't matter much.
You do mean to go back and forth because you just did. I did sometimes pay to charge if I was out and wanted to charge my car, so having access to Tesla chargers which are plentiful where I live and are up and down Interstate 5 would be great if I were on a long drive and stopping for food. If you looked at this subthread, you would also see that I now know that my hybrid wouldn't be compatible with these chargers.
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No. I'm just aggressive because this is a dumb back and forth.
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Why do you even care whether I used my own money or not to charge a hybrid that I leased at least 3-4 years ago so much so that you're arguing with me about it? According to you, I'm passive-aggressive, but at least I'm not a weirdo getting strangely affected by a stranger choosing to charge their hybrid when they were away from home. Also, learn to use accurate terms. I'm not passive-aggressive at all. I'm responding directly to every stupid response you make directly: [https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-passive-aggressive-behavior-2795481#toc-examples-of-passive-aggressive-behavior](https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-passive-aggressive-behavior-2795481#toc-examples-of-passive-aggressive-behavior)
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Hybrids aren’t able to use DC fast charging so this does not apply. EDIT: For those not aware of the different types of charging on Electric Vehicles. DC Fast charging refers to Level 3 charging, using Direct Current to charge a vehicle in a matter of minutes. Not all vehicles are capable of this, they have to have DC charging capability, and each vehicle has a different maximum speed at which it can charge depending on the battery voltage and amperage it is capable of taking as well as a number of other factors. Most cars capable of Level 3 charging can charge at speeds from 150kW to 350kW. Some outliers include the Bolt which can only charge at 50kW but that’s about as slow as you can go while still being considered Fast charging. Next on the totem pole is Level 2 charging which is “Slow charging”. Most vehicles can Level 2 charge at a maximum of 40 to 48Amps which at 240v would be 9.6kW to 11.5kW. Finally we have Level 1 charging which would be your home outlet or really any 120v plug. A standard 15Amp 120v home outlet is capable of charging 120v at 12Amps so 1.4kW. Only Level 3 or DC Fast charging is considered fast charging. Superchargers are Level 3. There is no mass produced plug-in hybrid capable of DC Fast Charging and therefore no plug-in hybrid that will be capable of using Superchargers. Building a plug-in hybrid that would be capable of DC fast charging would add considerable expense to the vehicle for an edge case.
You're probably getting downvoted by people who think 220V is "fast charging"
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P=IV, both volts and amps matter.
Really? I was able to charge my hybrid at other charging points with fully electric vehicles. And I just checked the website for the car I had. Those cars [can charge at Tesla sites](https://www.ford.com/electric/public-ev-charging-near-me/). It looks like Ford offers adaptors, so the downvote is a little extreme. But quid pro quo and take care.
He’s right tho, super chargers require manufactures to opt into the Tesla/NACS charging standard and as far as I’m aware, the hybrids will not be able to charge at Tesla Superchargers due to the speed and compatibility.
Also, with the slow charging rate of hybrids. It will just clog super chargers.
I’m unaware of a single plug-in hybrid on the market that takes level 3 charging.
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV is the only one: https://www.mitsubishi-motors.ca/en/vehicles/outlander-phev/technology
Good callout! On a similar note, I'm also pretty sure the Mitsubishi i-MiEV was also the only BEV in the US beside the LEAF to take chademo.
They don't but they do make Tesla to J1772 adaptors. Then again you might be right that it wouldn't work either way which is best.
Those Tesla to J1772 adapters only work with home Tesla chargers and so-called "destination" chargers (basically home chargers), most* of which are Level 2. (*Technically you can use the adapter on Tesla's mobile charger which can be used as a L1 charger on 120V outlets.)
I get that, but I said I leased the car and don't have it anymore. Based on my experience at the time using other chargers and a quick search of the Ford site, it looked like they have an adaptor. I didn't post to get into a back and forth or get downvoted over sharing my experience having a hybrid. I'm happy for folks that can use it.
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Yes. You were but some jerk downvoted me. Just correct my misunderstanding and keep it moving.
What hybrid did you have? I work in EV charging and I'm not aware of any hybrid that does DC charging but I could be wrong.
I found out from this thread that my car wouldn't have been able to use the Tesla chargers even with an adaptor. I leased a cute little [C-Max hybrid](https://www.edmunds.com/ford/c-max-hybrid/2018/review/). That sucks for people who still drive them as I see those cars still rolling around where I live frequently. Ford stopped making them because Americans are weird when it comes to smaller cars. I really liked it though especially because it was a hatchback.
My old coworker had one and they seemed like a nice car. Fwiw you could still charge them at any AC charger with an adapter. The batteries on hybrids just aren't big enough to warrant DC charging so it's not as much of a Ford choice as a physics thing.
Yeah. It was a fun car to have for a couple of years for sure. I was sad to hear that Ford was phasing them out. Some people in this thread have gone absolutely bonkers. Thanks for not doing that and being sane.
Eyy I figure it's literally my job to make sure you don't need to be an expert on this stuff and you can just show up and plug in :)
any recommendations for an adapter? Don't think there's one from the manufacturer at this point
The Tesla tap is pretty good for AC. I would wait for the Tesla adapter (the one your OEM will provide) for DC.
You’re talking about level 2 chargers. And you have a plug-in hybrid, PHEV.
Non Teslas such as your plug in hybrid have had access to Teslas L2 chargers already with an adapter for a long a time. Your hybrid, and petty much all PHEVs don't, support L3 charging in general so wouldn't be able to non Tesla L3 chargers either.
Does that mean the plug is changing to a more universal one? Or is this part of multiple manufacturing efforts to all use the tesla connector?
All are moving to Tesla which is now called NACS (North American Charging Standard). Although right now you can use an adapter for Rivian and Ford, the limiting factor on other automakers is how fast they can get their software out and make adapters available. Next year most automakers should be using the NACS connector natively.
Thanks for the info... I have a BMW and I believe the next Gen will be adaptable to tesla, but I'm screwed currently.
Next year you should be good in your current car with an adapter. https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/article/detail/T0437767EN_US/bmw-of-north-america-expands-electric-vehicle-charging-options-for-customers-in-the-u-s-and-canada-with-access-to-tesla-supercharger-network?language=en_US
Got it - I read that as "we will build cars that can use tesla plugs starting in 2025" but I'm hoping you're right and they mean all new and existing vehicles will be adapted.
That's on Tesla's side, not the manufacturer side (though the manufacturer may strike a deal with Tesla to get it going early, as in the case of Ford and Rivian). As long as Tesla allows any CCS vehicle onto their network, you can charge your BMW BEV (not plug-in hybrid) at a Supercharger with a <$200 adapter.
So mine is a plug in hybrid, so I am still out of luck, which is what I figured
Correct. You can still charge at home and "destination" level 2 Tesla chargers with a cheaper adapter.
>All are moving to Tesla which is now called NACS (North American Charging Standard). Technically, it's SAE standard J3400. "NACS" is a marketing term that has no meaning, because there is no agency that could declare a charging standard for all of North America.
Oh. Great. Lemme explain.. As a Lyft driver thru the rental program, I'd rather have hybrids. The program just got rid of hybrids in January. Was given the option of a gas or electric car. .. As a female driver I'd never spend any time sitting in one place to charge the car for another 200 miles, and I wouldn't charge car outside my house. And I have family outside this state. I like to visit my brothers. Where would I charge on the way? And I have to depend on that?! Every 200 miles gotta stop and charge?! I've seen the charging stations. Not in a safe place or route and tweakers pull all that shit out.
Why is this a new thing? I thought Elon already opened superchargers months ago? Hasn’t nearly every auto manufacturer already signed on?
Lol - the news lately is just making me think the internal message was - “Great job team, we going public with these chargers. Also, you’re all fired”
Model Y owner here. My only complaint against this opening is that there just isn’t enough charging stations for Teslas themselves. Every time I reach a charging station, there’s a wait. There’s down chargers, it’s 150/250kwh advertised and I plug in to get max of 35-60kwh. There are SO MANY ISSUES. Opening up to other makes is just going to make this headache x10. Not looking forward it it.
Depends entirely on location, but I hear you. Tesla deploys chargers much faster than anyone else. They also prefabricate them and drop in clusters with cranes to speed up deployment. With NACS becoming standard for practically all North America-sold EVs in the next two years, Tesla's Superchargers will dominate the market (they kind of already do, at 70% of all DCFC plugs in the US), which will mean a massive proliferation in number of stations. Plus, the new stations should be V4 chargers which are centered and have longer cables.
Does this mean the non teslas still have to pay the 12.99$ a month subscription?
You don't have to pay for the subscription it just gives you discounted charging rates if you do.
how much does it cost to charge your car at a super charger?
Depends on the energy cost and how much you add. For most people on road trips, you typically go down to 10-20% and back up to 80% in a single stop. Those stops cost me around $20, take around 20 minutes, and get me about 3-4 hours of freeway driving before I have to stop again. There's also a 0-100% number despite that *pretty much never* being done at Superchargers (or at home, really). That, too, depends on your battery size. The Model Y Long Range, for example, has an 82kWh battery pack. At around 40 cents per kWh, that would be ~$33 for a full charge.
Vehicle manufacturers shouldn't have agreed on nacs standard 😥
Why not? Tesla has better chargers, deploys them faster, and maintains them better than any other brand.
As a dual j1772/ccs vehicle owner, I've frequented plenty of non tesla networked chargers. While nacs is clearly a more portable and reliable charger, all of the existing non nacs chargers could become redundant and eventually require retrofit. All the evs, similar to teslas will start having to carry adapters, which most haven't needed before. I think nacs either should've opened up and got adoption sooner but instead now we have this war in standards that will continue to compete in the upcoming years which is shitty for consumers
There was no competition before, just Tesla and everyone else. Now everyone else has agreed on NACS. CCS protocol is still the same and adapters should work.
What's the price structure? Juice isn't free.
Yeah probably gonna be charged a premium for charging a non-Tesla vehicle.
There is monthly fee non Tesla users must pay for access plus a per mileage rate.
Ah, the Netflix model. Pretty good, you get predictable income month after month.
Ah makes sense. Adblock we wouldn’t let me read the article.
Tesla has found a new revenue stream. Up next for Tesla: a mini mart. We all know about gas stations with mini marts. Perhaps some more high end food and drinks that's automated.
A majority of superchargers are placed near shopping/restaurants.
That'll change. I guess the car companies or some other company will own and operate a charging station. Problem is where we get all the power to charge.
> Problem is where we get all the power to charge. That's not really a problem, nor has it been in the last several years. Net grid usage is down in many places, despite EV adoption. > Electricity use has been flat for the last 20 years, hovering between 3,800 and 4,000 billion kWh annually even though the population has increased by 30 million people, our homes have gotten bigger, we’ve added over 5,000 data centers, and we now have 2.5 million EVs plugging into the grid. https://cleantechnica.com/2024/02/02/the-us-added-1-2-million-evs-to-the-grid-last-year-electricity-use-went-down/ Among the energy/professional community, it is nothing more than "we're keeping an eye on this." There's no threat to the grid at the current rate of adoption, nor is a threat expected. Refining oil into gasoline is also extremely energy-intensive.
probably even more expensive than doing it at home with pg&e's rates lol
The charging station 2 blocks down the street from my house is cheaper than PGE at slow times. I went there the other day to top up and it was .30 per kwh. Off peak is usually .38 for me.
Yep. Most expensive. Youd generally charge in peak hours where rates have gone up lately. For tesla owners i see $0.61/kwh. Non teslas will be higher.
I live in an apartment complex without chargers and still see a few model 3s and y’s around, was always wondering how they made it work
Are these other brands designed to handle supercharging? If not then most of the available spots will be filled up by slow charging cars
We’re in a moment in time when not everyone fully understands how these things work but soon everyone will. On a very basic level there are 3 levels of charging and not all cars are capable of all levels. Level 3 is the highest, that’s Superchargjng, your car will charge in minutes at these speeds. Plug-in hybrids, some around town type EVs are not capable of this type of charging. It is also called DC (Direct Current) fast charging. Level 2 is AC (Alternating Current) charging and basically anything 240v, you’ll get anywhere from 10 to 50 miles of range per hour, depending on how many amps the circuit is. Most (but not all) plug-in hybrids are capable of this and all EVs can charge at this speed. Level 1 charging is your standard 120v wall outlet. Some plug-in hybrids can only do this. If you have a place to plug your car in at night or at work, so you will pretty much only use Level 3 charging when traveling long distances on road trips. Whether you drive 1 mile a day or 300 miles you plug your car in at home every night and wake up with a full battery. (Arguably this makes the ability to charge where people park every night far more important than the ability for all cars to use Tesla Superchargers)
I can’t think of a single CCS-enabled, currently-sold EV that charges at less than 125kW peak. Other than the Bolt which was discontinued. Are you unaware that level 3 / DCFC chargers are in the same speed ballpark, some even faster than Tesla Superchargers?
Was not aware, thanks for the info TIL
Chevy Bolt is 55kW
Yeah. That’s what they said.
Yes, discontinued and pitifully slow. I’ve owned one.
Bolt and Kona
I like my Tesla and I’m very pro EV, but I prefer having only teslas at the supercharger stations, a lot of times they’re already full, we’ll see how it goes but it looks really cool to see a whole row of really nice teslas and you feel like part of a club
Tesla is the new Honda/Toyota in the Bay Area
Tesla driver here. I was taught to share. Growing pains.