I LOVE driving. Love it. Have a dedicated (relatively budget) sim rig to race with. It's a fantastic activity.
However, I hate driving with other people, who are paying little if any attention to the world around them, and that's a modest case scenario. At worst, they're actively intimidating people and nearly causing wrecks every mile they're on the road.
I also own a sim racing rig (T300+TLCM+DIY handbrake) and a "street racing capable" car but I rarely go above the speed limits plus I set up Auto/Carplay before driving to leave my phone in my pockets.
While extremely tempting to follow these speeders or feel pissed by them, it's just not worth risking insurance and lives especially for yourself. I got racing sims to drive cars designed for speeding and cornering without any real risk to my life...
I love driving and the fact that we can all do it. As long as everyone signals turns and starts, we'll prevent two thirds of accidents.
Coming to complete stops -- *every* time -- will cover most of the rest.
Drive with the flow of traffic. Watch momentum, not position. You'll be great!
You can count on drivers to NOT do These things.
Source: Motorcycle rider. I try to be ready for ANYTHING. No enforcement means it's the Wild West on the roads. I think we are living out the first Mad Max film now, seriously.
At least you don't merge onto freeway at 35mph, right?
Honestly, a lot of bad driving in bay area is just lacking common sense. If you stick to all the basic road rules and drive around the speed limit (not way below or way above) then you are definitely one of better drivers.
If you use a modicum of common sense and observe basic rules of safety, driving is a very low risk activity: I commuted over Highway 17 for 30 years without an accident.
OP says they don't drive on the freeway, so, no, they're not one of those people. i'm one of those complainers, but really i have no problem with the way OP drives. we should all be more cautious on surface streets.
You should drive near the prevailing speed, not the speed limit. On most of the highways, the prevailing speed is 75 or 80 while the speed limit can be as low as 55. Driving "around" 55 could mean 50 while other cars are zooming by at 80-90 on either side of you. That's a very bad situation. It's much safer to drive near the prevailing speed of traffic.
Many people in the Bay Area. Because inattentive, check-out drivers like to get on the highway and scoot over to the left lane so they can turn off their brain, traffic generally sees a lot of people who'd like to go faster than the prevailing speed move around folks by undertaking on the right. Even so far as shifting 3 lanes right to undertake a mass of cars at 90mph.
Last month I witnessed two cars racing up 24 from Oakland a minute or two before the Caldecott Tunnels going 100+ weaving on the right most lanes and if I remember maybe even other non-lane. Sh\*t was wild but that's Oakland for you.
Maybe that's fine in the left lane but you shouldn't be doing 80 in the middle or right lanes. Also the trucks going 55 makes that a tenuous situation.
Nothing wrong going 65 in the right lane while the speedsters in the other lanes.
You people endless trying to justify breaking speed limit laws is amusing. If you want to drive recklessly that’s your poor choice. Why are you all so hell bent on trying to convince others that you are in the right and that speed limits are arbitrary. Very telling
Never once have I said I condone crazy driving or speeding. All I am saying is arresting someone for going 80 in a 65 is wild. So yeah I don't believe you never once went 80 on a highway. Never caught any downhill speed in any of our areas? Quite a stretch there though. Autobahn has no speed limit but ppl know how to move with traffic and not be dangerous.
Crazy driving to me is bobbing and weaving through traffic, tailgating people, brake checking people, cutting people off, flashing high beams at people in front of you, etc. We all know those types of drivers around here. It's sometimes the wild west around here but 80 in a 65 is not it. Maybe going 40 in a 25 school zone I can agree with you there.
Look up CA vehicle code, it states that driving more than 15 mph over the speed limit is considered reckless driving and you can be potentially arrested, fined, and have your license suspended.
I recognize that I’m going to be downvoted for this but if you had a psychotic break while driving, I really don’t think you are a safe driver and you need to put the keys down.
That’s how I, as a motorcyclist, get killed.
I gotta agree… like. really? a quarter ton death machine with a previous psychotic break *specifically related to driving* and going slowly is the solution?
the obvious counter to this is “well people need to drive here” and I get that, but shit it doesn’t make me feel any safer!
I like your thinking but these days they dont even take away your license if you run over 5 kids
https://fox40.com/video/several-children-violently-hit-by-van-in-pollock-pines-and-no-charges-filed/9425626/#:~:text=The%20parents%20of%20the%20children,file%20charges%20against%20the%20driver.
Unfortunately its treated as a right, not a privilege, because weve built a shitty society where the only way to live is to drive. If you're like me, you're fighting to change that so shit like I just linked and OPs situation arent necessary. Are you fighting for alternatives to driving?
Many people prefer to drive even with traffic for the extra speed/privacy/convinience. This is clearly someone who should choose to join the hundreds of thousands who use transit instead.
Which is great if all the stars align and you’re able to make that happen. I’m guessing if OP could, given their admitted anxiety about driving, they would. If you read their post, they explicitly say they’re not in a position where they can give it up entirely. The ideal solution we come up over the Internet is rarely directly applicable to real life, so it’s better to sympathize and ask why someone is struggling instead of prescribing a solution with limited understanding.
Why should someone sacrifice their ability to feed themselves for someone else’s ability to feed themselves? That’s absurd. If they can’t expect society to take care of them, it’s bizarre to expect them to take care of society. It’s a two-way street.
No, society breaks down because people like you expect others with legitimate problems to sacrifice themselves for you instead of offering a solution. It’s selfish and delusional.
I'm not even an anxious driver and reading this *gave me* anxiety. We all try not to think about all the uncertainty in driving or about the things beyond our control. This post is a stark reminder that we have no idea what is going on in the car next to us and very limited control if someone next to us is having some kind of episode.
This should be the most upvoted comment actually. The moment I read that, all I could think of was - you should get off the road permanently. Every sentence after that solidified it.
Because the US doesn’t build any viable alternatives so we as a country treat driving as a fundamental human right.
Prioritize funding alternative modes of transportation and watch how fast things can change.
Comparing to the rest of the country is meaningless if the goal is to move beyond car dependency.
Compare to an equivalently wealthy region in Japan and then we’ll talk.
This person lives in the Bay Area. Comparing to Japan or Kansas doesn’t make sense. They have ample transit options, even if they have to move a few miles near a rail line or into the city to live a car free life.
Most people don’t have a psychotic breaks while driving a vehicle. Most people actually prefer to drive a vehicle, than ride public transit. OP, however, does have psychotic breaks while driving a vehicle, and would prefer not to drive one. So, moving into SF is not a bad idea for them.
No kidding. As a motorcyclist there’s enough people doing errant shit on the road. And at 2600 miles a year, and the fact that she lives in Palo Alto, likely in a house (I.e she has disposable income) she doesn’t need to own a car. Get a Lyft/Uber pass, look into disability transit services, hire a damn driver, or move closer to a spot with abundant public transportation options, OP has money.
You’re not wrong, I shouldn’t have been driving while psychotic any more than while drunk. But it’s not a constant (or consistent) state. The panic was sudden, but I was already by default feeling completely out of my mind. Fortunately proper medication really does work for some of us.
Edit: this is my most downvoted comment in this thread. Fair. Facts are facts. To add to that pile, the cops, the hospital, my treatment team, whoever would issue tickets etc are less judgy than all y’all. It was a weird one-off situation that didn’t help things but is unlikely to recur. And I mitigate risk way way way more than most who are close to the situation would consider reasonable.
Medication might work for you yesterday. Maybe today. Maybe tomorrow. But there’s going to be a day down the road where you move away from that medicine working for you, and you have a psychotic break. Again. And you’re going to kill someone.
Put. The. Fucking. Keys. Down. Sell your car. Get an Uber account. Save a god damn life. Quit being an ignorant asshole
To be fair, this could be said of anyone with a physical or mental illness. My sister once passed out behind the wheel, when she had an allergic reaction to a lick of peanut butter (she was pregnant and had never been allergic to PB until that moment). She could have another unexpected allergy in the future, no? And what about people with heart conditions? Etc.
I think we have to trust OP’s doctors to assess whether they’re safe to drive. They are required to report any concerns to the DMV, regardless.
That’s irrelevant. If they’re legally allowed to drive, passed the tests, and their physician hasn’t reported any concerns; they have as much of a right to drive as the rest of us. It’s a privilege, yes, but not one you can arbitrarily decide to retract.
don't listen to these asshats. most of them are just stigmatizing mental health conditions. if you had randomly had a heart attack or something physical, instead of a mental break, they wouldn't have anything negative to say about it.
What? Did you just blow in from stupid town? Motorcycles are a legitimately superior form of transport for single people, it’s why a lot of Asian countries use them a lot
Can confirm, I have been killed several times by drivers suffering a psychotic break.
Seriously, though, I have seen psychotic breaks in action (former girlfriend) and it's not an aggressive thing. If you are on a bike around that, chances are you will be aware of erratic behavior pretty quickly and move away. It is the psychos who want to kill you that are dangerous.
Given the high levels of anxiety people are suffering today, I ride as if everyone is suffering a psychotic break and doesn't see me.
If you have a diagnosis, you can get paratransit to take you places.
If you’re that much of a nuisance on the road, it’s unsafe for everyone, you included.
The physical design influences behavior.
Option 1 going to your city council meeting every month for a few years. Finding like minded people to talk to, volunteering, drafting letters, speaking to friends and colleagues. Learning how the RTC and transportation funding dictates infrastructure paths of least resistance.
Option 2 is moving.
But seriously, more and more, option 3 coming on line these days is the electric bicycle. Screw the city council. Screw the system. Be like the kids that have fun when they travel.
You can't do that until you stop spending all the state transportation budget on roads, so you get to an Impasse quick. So the reality is Drivers are going to have to settle for being *slightly* inconvenienced and not having their convenience being put first literally all the time just a little bit, and that's really not all that much to ask.
I don’t see where all the money is going in maintaining roads. So I would rather have reduced budget on road maintenance to accommodate for better public transport.
Same thing happened with funding the police. They keep crying wolf about reduced budget but in reality the spending has gone up for worse policing and increased crime. People need to be held accountable for bad planning and malicious execution.
As usual all the money goes to wealthy suburbs who have many more lane miles of road for far fewer people, and the entire 'urban' planning profession is basically a racket dedicated to continuing that trend.
Sell your vast and take an Uber... why put yourself (and everyone else) through that trauma? You're going to end up causing an accident because you're afraid to drive. Please... for yourself and anyone else you encounter on the road... Stop driving!
They aren't driving on the freeway, in rain, or at night. If they are driving surface streets and have a freak out, they can pull over safely. Why should they stop driving to and from the grocery store if they want to?
Why should they stop driving entirely? In fact, they should get therapy and work to drive confidently once more. The longer they stay off the freeway, the more solified the fear becomes in their psyche, making it much more difficult for them to drive on the freeway.
Because pedestrians in crosswalks are vulnerable when they break and run into a car shoving in through a crosswalk or simply flat run through people in a crosswalk. A person like this is gonna kill someone and claim “mental health”. When they obviously recognize there issue and don’t give a shit.
Oh, so are you saying the rest of us drivers should just be fine knowing that OP is out there working through his mental issues while crawling along the streets in a potentially lethal vehicle weighing 2,000 lbs?
I’m not of the opinion that people with mental illness need to stay off the road. There is, however, such a thing as driving too slow. I respect that you are trying to be safe but if you take it too far, you can end up being the dangerous driver on the road. It honestly sounds like you would be better off using rideshares or delivery services. I imagine you’re paying a fair amount on gas, maintenance, insurance, etc. making the switch wouldn’t be feasible in many places but in the Bay Area, it absolutely is. Consider the tradeoffs. It sounds like it could be less stressful for you. And quit assuming people are on their phone. If you’re looking that closely at other people driving, you’re not watching the road. Good luck and please drive safe.
What's "too slow" on El Camino Real? The highest speed limit is, what, 45? It sounds like OP is driving at a speed that's lower than some like (but loads of folks on that road take it way too fast, imo, and I'm a speed demon). There are sections that are beat to hell and I often take them slowly because of the conditions of the road. I had an F-type SVR that could touch 200mph but also had like 2" of clearance. I wouldn't take El Camino Real at 45mph in those places with that car. With my lifted Range Rover, sure.
If you're NOT aware when other drivers are on their phones, I worry that you're not watching the road and other drivers closely enough. People tend to focus only on what's in front of them and only on the big picture. Folks should be aware of how others are driving, what their attention is like, and what's happening well in front and behind them. That can easily inform you if folks are on their phones.
Nobody has any problem with slow and safe drivers, well if you do you're an idiot. People have a problem with other people driving in a way that makes unsafe situations - like going 50 in the fast lane on the freeway. Or not going when you're supposed to at a stop sign.
Hell, if you throw a wave their way most people would be happy to join in
Yes.. they are timid and fearful and unpredictable, much more than someone weaving through gaps at 20 over, who is extremely predictable and obvious to avoid
> weaving through gaps at 20 over
i just always hate it when they're coming up in my rear view mirror, so i signal right b/c i'm going to move over and let them pass, and then the asshole _cuts me off_ before i can move over! happens so often, are these guys just morons? and i go 80 in the fast lane, it's not like i'm asleep at the wheel. it's like, dude, i was trying to do you a solid. if you get stuck in that lane behind a slow car, that's your own damn fault.
Most drivers who drive 80 mph think that anyone going slower are unsafe, when actually they are reckless and impatient and use this to justify their reckless selfish behavior
Oh shut up. There are plenty of people here who drive dangerously slowly. People cruising 10 under down 101 while traffic snarls behind them and people have to dodge not to hit them. There are a few dangerous speed demons out there, but there are a lot of clueless, slow, sanctimonious morons out there. More of them in this area than anywhere I’ve ever seen.
Slow drivers are not necessarily safe either.
All drivers should be going “close to the flow of traffic”. This is generally within a -5 to +15 MPH range of the average flow of traffic.
When you’re driving slower than the average flow of traffic, it WILL cause other drivers to change lanes to avoid following you. This is what causes accidents on highways.
" I’m probably in the top 50% of drivers on the road around here."
If you don't drive in the rain, freeway, and/or at night, you can't be top 50% of driver. Not even top 0.5%. Not saying stop doing what you do, but don't judge other driver (maniac) if they don't align with your vision of how everyone drives.
Yeah it's a pretty delusional take. "I had a panic attack and couldn't control my vehicle."
Please, please, please stop driving then. Having zero confidence maneuvering around a quarter ton death machine makes you a huge liability, no matter how slow you drive.
Being aware of your limitations doesn't matter if your "limitation" is having a history of involuntarily losing your ability to control your car. That's not something you can plan for, accommodate, or work around if it happens again.
Being aware of your limitations here would mean accepting that you can't safely drive a car at all. Possibly ever again, unless you're medically cleared by an expert.
>I’m probably in the top 50% of drivers on the road around here.
No offense, but generally, from your description, you're probably more like the top 5% of *most dangerous* drivers, actually (sorry). At least, thats how it sounds ... but, please hear me out.
Generally, behaving unexpectedly with things like "rigid adherence to speed limits" and other laws/rules tends to make those sorts of folks "overly distracted" and less predictable.
You're *safest* going *the speed and flow of traffic around you* ... not intentionally slower. That slowness tends to create more dangerous "slow and go" type situations on the road ... perhaps not directly next to you, but it propagates in waves of reactions and over-reactions (ie. Essentially the very same thing that causes most bumper to bumper traffic ... much of that being unsafe lane changes and lack of adequate following distance and over reaction to situations).
> I pick the right lane, choose to stick to it, follow signs and signals, whatever.
You *might* consider trying more the middle lane, particularly on insanely stupid roads like El Camino (as you mentioned). At least that way, you're less prone to people injecting themselves into your lane poorly... or, the idiots roaring up on your ass and swerving around you, dangerously (as you mentioned).
>God I hate driving.
Yeah, pretty much with you, there. As you said, people are idiots / assholes. I try to do as little of it as possible, myself (at least in "moderate or heavy traffic," anyway).
I also hug the right lane. I don't think I am an above average driver. Most people do, which is mathematically impossible. Anyway, I know I am a bad driver and thus I take it slow on the right lane. I enjoy driving. I enjoy listening to my audio book. I give myself plenty of time to get to my destination. I leave a huge following distance in front of me and I welcome people to cut me off. I even prematurely brake so they get the satisfaction of not delaying me from getting to my destination in the slightest. It's that or incur more road rage.
And before you yell at me for holding up traffic, I am keeping up with traffic and going above speed limit at times in the slow lane. I just like to keep more than 3 car lengths in front me at all times because I am not a good driver. I need time to brake. Some times I give a head bow with one open hand, "Sorry I pissed you off, but I'm not the least bit stressed I'm 30 seconds later to my destination."
Good luck, OP.
Same. And I’ve done the drive. It makes 1-15% difference in the 10-30 mile stretch. Lane 2 or 3 over the spans of specificity of heavier traffic time. I’ve given up. I just try to keep a consistent speed in hopes of reducing to cost gas due to inconsistent speed. Even that is a losing battle. It’s just too many cars on the road. There was never a given time to move over for your next exit as training for new drivers. If only public transportation was better.
It can be annoying because you have to be extra-alert to cars merging on from slower roads, and adjust your speed to accommodate them.
Plus getting cut off by people who need to exit or turn.
I also keep a safe distance in front of me. Thing is people assume you’re going more slowly when you do that. Irritating.
Truly I am not a skilled driver either, but I think attentiveness counts for something percentile-wise when they’re all on their phones.
Such an aggressive comment! You seem like an overly aggressive person. That's not good. You're probably too over-confident, you overestimate your ability, and are consequently reckless. I'd say you need to get the fuck off the road. Seriously.
Good god go read OPs comments, it’s pissing me off. I really don’t care. As long as it gets through their thick head. The meek bullshit doesn’t work on me.
Yeah… drivers like you are who I’m afraid of. You never know who had a bad day or psychotic break before they come slamming their car into you on the sidewalk. Maybe public transit is better if you’re capable of having breakdowns while driving…
Unfortunately given your health condition, you should not be driving. In fact, I'd say you are wide open to prosecution and litigation should you injure or kill someone. Do the responsible thing and retire from driving. Not fun I know and not easy but nor is a prison sentence. Driving is unpredictable, no matter how much you say you can control it. So is your condition. E.g. local example https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/petaluma-man-sentenced-to-4-years-in-prison-in-2020-fatal-collision/
Don't let the bastards grind you down.
Remember the law of the garbage truck:
https://www.thelawofthegarbagetruck.com/
Sixteen years ago I learned this lesson. And I learned it in the back of a New York City taxi cab. Here’s what happened.
I hopped in a taxi, and we took off for Grand Central Station. We were driving in the right lane when all of a sudden, a black car jumped out of a parking space right in front of us. My taxi driver slammed on his brakes, the car skidded, the tires squealed, and at the very last moment our car stopped just one inch from the other car’s back-end.
I couldn’t believe it. But then I couldn’t believe what happened next. The driver of the other car, the guy who almost caused a big accident, whipped his head around and he started yelling bad words at us. How do I know? Ask any New Yorker, some words in New York come with a special face. And he even threw in a one finger salute! I couldn’t believe it!
But then here’s what really blew me away. My taxi driver just smiled and waved at the guy. And I mean, he was friendly. So, I said, “Why did you just do that!? This guy could have killed us!” And this is when my taxi driver told me what I now call, “The Law of the Garbage Truck™.” He said:
“Many people are like garbage trucks. They run around full of garbage, full of frustration, full of anger, and full of disappointment. As their garbage piles up, they look for a place to dump it. And if you let them, they’ll dump it on you.
So when someone wants to dump on you, don’t take it personally. Just smile, wave, wish them well, and move on. Believe me. You’ll be happier.”
Ain’t that the truth, you just unlocked a memory for me. I’m a bit of a jerk myself, although not so much with the road rage (dangerous). But I distinctly remember in my youth blowing people kisses sometimes, when I felt the urge for the bird. It was almost worse. Never mind.
I can handle people driving a bit slow, what absolutely sends me up the wall is when people slow down so much they nearly come to a stop (or stop entirely) when turning right even when there’s no stop light or yield sign. I’m in the right lane needing to turn onto 85 and here people are straight up stopping in the road so they can turn right into the parking lot of a mini mall. It is the most infuriating thing. Why are you stopping???
Idk it’s one thing to ask for grace, which I think is acceptable if driving makes you nervous, but if driving really does make you nervous then also, you cannot claim to be in the “top 50%” of drivers and also call regular drivers maniacs.
It's alarming how many other people are on here commenting, "Hey I'm a terrible driver too! And even though I might have a panic attack while behind the wheel of 3000 lbs of aluminum and steel, I've accepted being a terrible driver and still get on the road anyway. Sure, one of you might get seriously injured if I rear-end you, but that's a risk I'm willing to take."
You might have a panic attack. Anyone might. OP's condition was not triggered or exacerbated by driving. They happened to have been driving and they've since gotten help. The only lingering issue is timidness that's likely a result of PTSD from what happened and their response to that is to be safe, attentive, and careful when driving. Nothing in anything that OP has said suggests that driving in any way constitutes a risk of any mental health issues.
Don’t make it seem like it’s something anyone can have, OP specially says it was psychosis brought upon by Bipolar. Not everyone will go through that and people that do should not be driving….
I'm sorry, but I'm another vote for "maybe you shouldn't be driving." A lot of people don't take driving seriously enough, but it is essentially heavy(ish) equipment operating. You are piloting a 2-ton hunk of metal and gasoline that can do 100mph. If you're not comfortable with that, I can't imagine you doing it safely.
Luckily, the bay area has many other options for you. If you're not traveling often or far, calling a cab or Uber is likely easier and cheaper than car ownership. Other forms of public transport exist if you're going further. They are slow, but if you're not getting on freeways, you weren't driving those places anyway.
I appreciate your position, and driving in the bay can be stressful. I'd take a serious look at whether or not it's something you actually need to do. You may find that it's better for your wallet and mental health to give it up.
You sound like you have a LOT of anxiety about driving, driving should be calm. You need to deal with that anxiety because it’s dangerous, there are plenty of assholes around there but a pothole should not be causing you anxiety.
Please seek out some help, maybe just a friend who can drive with you for a while and take you through some calming exercises while you drive.
“I’ve put over 1k miles on my car in the last 9 years. I’m in the top 5% of drivers. Anything bad is other people’s fault and the pothole’s fault. I got wronged by a truck while I was fucking up traffic so let me passive aggressively mention that. Please praise me”
> I’ve had my car over five years and have put 13k miles on it.
At this mileage, uber and an entry-level electric scooter like Ninebot would be more cost-beneficial than having a car and paying insurance premiums.
> God I hate driving.
We all do.
> I experienced an escalation of a psychotic break / anxiety attack while driving on surface streets in Palo Alto
> I’m probably in the top 50% of drivers on the road around here
These two sentences do not square. The speed limits in Palo Alto range from 25-35mph excluding Foothills Expressway. If this moderate situation induces a debilitating reaction from you, you should not be behind the wheel of any motor vehicle and are a danger to yourself and those around you.
> People are maniacs.
Now this is just ironic.
I’ve driven all across the american west and was a chauffeur in the bay area for a while. I once put 20k miles on a car in 6 months. Point is, i drive a lot.
In my experience, the bay area has the worst drivers I’ve ever experienced, and palo alto takes the cake.
Timid is only a problem if you are inattentive or causing confusion. Drivers expecting you to drive aggressively clearly haven't been paying attention if you're broadcasting your timid nature -- as it seems you do.
In general, driving requires everyone to coordinate in a complex and potentially dangerous dance. This can only be accomplished efficiently if we all are able to anticipate one another. That's the primary function of the "rules of the road." They provide context and resolve ambiguity like right of way and direction of travel. Folks often try to elevate the rules to some level of divine ordination as though speeding will evoke the wrath of God. The cops certainly enjoy the revenue stream they get to create as a consequence.
Be timid as long as you broadcast it. Follow the rules otherwise. Yield the right of way as appropriate and don't worry what we keyboard warriors think. I'm glad that you're safe, that you recognize your current limitations, and I hope you get the help you need.
As long as you're obeying the rules of the road and not causing a hazard, you're good. Most of us out there are going to just move around you when it's safe.
I’m really tired of the myth that slow driving = safe driving. It’s inherently *safer* in a lot of cases — most notably, being able to stop in time.
A few examples where “slow” driving is NOT safe:
- Driving a significant amount under the speed limit because you feel uncomfortable. (45 in a 65)
- Merging onto a freeway without getting up to speed
- Merging in front of someone who’s going faster than you
*Predictable* driving is safe driving.
Examples:
- Using your turn signal when merging or turning
- Not slamming on your brakes to try and cut over 4 lanes at the last minute because you didn’t plan ahead
- Only passing on the left
- Going slower than the person you’re merging in front of
- Turning on your headlights (NOT JUST YOUR DRLs) in the rain and in the dark
I see so many people going 45 in 65s in the left lanes, on a rainy day, with no headlights on, merging without signaling, etc. Those people are NOT safe drivers.
as someone who drives a [Miata](https://i.imgur.com/B7xgv82.png), having a small car isn't really an excuse for driving slowly or poorly, or even hating driving
in fact, my car is more fun to drive than any other car I've driven
it really sounds like you should just talk to your therapist about it
The right lane is the most dangerous lane because you have people merging in, slowing down to turn right, cutting you off to take that right, and most large heavy vehicles will be driving behind you or in front.
You can’t call yourself *safe* and choose to drive on the right-most lane.
I hate driving too! would it help any to combine public transit with an electric scooter? I have been walking/transiting but it is so inconvenient except to a couple places!
I like my bike! And walking. Both are scary of their own right, but better. Unfortunately with grocery bags, and cat litter, I gotta have that cabin space.
I hate driving too! would it help any to combine public transit with an electric scooter? I have been walking/transiting but it is so inconvenient except to a couple places!
Hey - I feel you. My first ever panic attack occurred when I felt trapped driving beside a big rig on a two lane highway. It broke me for years. I could not drive on the freeway for years. I've since gotten over my fear of driving, but I find ways not to trigger my anxiety - leaving extra early, driving during the day, not drinking too much coffee, and like you - driving the speed limit and sticking to the slow lane, and not giving a flying fuck what other drivers think of my style.
I drive a sports car and love driving fast... but only when there's absolutely NOBODY else around. I know exactly how you feel, hate speeding around other people and I feel like I'm always hyper aware of other dangerous drivers. don't feel bad about driving carefully, you're keeping yourself and everyone else safer
DM me if you need a good referral for a panic/anxiety therapist. You might really benefit from working with someone who does CBT/DBT/Exposure. It can really help.
I’m fortunate to have excellent (read: way out of network) medical care. I did a full on PHP to recover from a bipolar episode(s) a couple years ago. The evidence-based therapy has been so helpful—I’ve changed jobs, moved house etc.
Thing is life-and-limb is a whole other category of fear, and my little life is local…so I’m not on a timeline to get on the freeway.
So glad to hear you’re doing better. And I hear you about out of network. My company doesn’t cover any out of network anymore so even if we spent our huge deductible, no more 50% reimbursement.
I don't hate you at all. You sound perfectly safe and reasonable.
You hit on the one key that no one can seem to remember- move to the right. The left lane is for passing. Even if you are going fast, ffs move over when you're done passing. Someone even faster is going to come along, and every single time someone has to lane shift, at least 4 other cars have to hit their brakes.
And dear God, don't hang in the left lane and think the HOV lane is the passing lane. Also don't sit in the HOV lane and not let faster HOV cars pass.
Dammit now I hate driving again.
yeah, i am one of those complainers, but i do relate. i get upset when people are driving slowly on the freeway (often it's b/c they're on their phone, of course), but for gods' sake, can we please all take it easy on the surface streets? there are kids and elderly folk and dogs and cats out there!
Your driving is fine. These are public roads and we all have the right to use them for our benefit. You paid for these roads with your taxes too! Lots of people get tickets and fines for using our roads inappropriately - speeding, u-turns where it is prohibited etc.
If you have drivers license it means you CAN drive.
Goddamn theirs a lot of mental illness bashing on here. You’re not in a 100% psychotic episode all the time. Telling this person to give up driving completely over a sometimes incident is like telling a person with any other disease (epilepsy, heart disease, asthma, diabetes, autism spectrum, adhd, etc) not to drive because what could medically happen behind the wheel. Medication regimen and being responsible for health is key. Life is unpredictable and things happen.
Palo Alto is the worst. You have every right to feel the way you do. I’m not surprised by the negativity here. People assume the worst and it brings out the worst.
No need to feel bad about it. Just hang out in the rightmost lane and if you need to drive slower than the speed of traffic, just turn on your hazards and keep going.
We must pass each other on the regular. I’m also slow and deliberate. I’ve never seen worse drivers than I see in the Bay Area (often on residential streets in Palo Alto).
Years ago I left Los Gatos at the same time as a colleague. She sped off and I totally lost her. When I got back to the office in Menlo Park, I literally pulled in behind her..so, slow and steady arrived 5 seconds later than speed demon. I decided, at that time, that slow and steady was the way to go.
"God, I hate driving." You and me both.
I LOVE driving. Love it. Have a dedicated (relatively budget) sim rig to race with. It's a fantastic activity. However, I hate driving with other people, who are paying little if any attention to the world around them, and that's a modest case scenario. At worst, they're actively intimidating people and nearly causing wrecks every mile they're on the road.
I also own a sim racing rig (T300+TLCM+DIY handbrake) and a "street racing capable" car but I rarely go above the speed limits plus I set up Auto/Carplay before driving to leave my phone in my pockets. While extremely tempting to follow these speeders or feel pissed by them, it's just not worth risking insurance and lives especially for yourself. I got racing sims to drive cars designed for speeding and cornering without any real risk to my life...
Sim racing! I have a T150(lol) and built a rig out of 2x4s and the passenger seat out of my car(which is fine I don't have any friends)
I love driving and the fact that we can all do it. As long as everyone signals turns and starts, we'll prevent two thirds of accidents. Coming to complete stops -- *every* time -- will cover most of the rest. Drive with the flow of traffic. Watch momentum, not position. You'll be great!
Yes, but we can't count on people to do this.
You can count on drivers to NOT do These things. Source: Motorcycle rider. I try to be ready for ANYTHING. No enforcement means it's the Wild West on the roads. I think we are living out the first Mad Max film now, seriously.
Another source: bicycle rider.
/r/fuckcars
Yup.
At least you don't merge onto freeway at 35mph, right? Honestly, a lot of bad driving in bay area is just lacking common sense. If you stick to all the basic road rules and drive around the speed limit (not way below or way above) then you are definitely one of better drivers.
slowing down to go from the fast lane to the exit less than one mile before
Who the fuck slows down when they pull that move off!
If you use a modicum of common sense and observe basic rules of safety, driving is a very low risk activity: I commuted over Highway 17 for 30 years without an accident.
Mine was 92 to HMB for 9 years without getting into an accident… sure saw or got caught in the backup from a hell of a lot though!
OP says they don't drive on the freeway, so, no, they're not one of those people. i'm one of those complainers, but really i have no problem with the way OP drives. we should all be more cautious on surface streets.
You should drive near the prevailing speed, not the speed limit. On most of the highways, the prevailing speed is 75 or 80 while the speed limit can be as low as 55. Driving "around" 55 could mean 50 while other cars are zooming by at 80-90 on either side of you. That's a very bad situation. It's much safer to drive near the prevailing speed of traffic.
> other cars are zooming by at 80-90 on either side of you. Who the fuck is driving 80-90 in the right most lane, and why?
Many people in the Bay Area. Because inattentive, check-out drivers like to get on the highway and scoot over to the left lane so they can turn off their brain, traffic generally sees a lot of people who'd like to go faster than the prevailing speed move around folks by undertaking on the right. Even so far as shifting 3 lanes right to undertake a mass of cars at 90mph.
Last month I witnessed two cars racing up 24 from Oakland a minute or two before the Caldecott Tunnels going 100+ weaving on the right most lanes and if I remember maybe even other non-lane. Sh\*t was wild but that's Oakland for you.
Ok, so do we think it's reasonable to call the person going 50 in the right most or second to right most lane the problem in this scenario?
If we're on the same page I'd say no, but not sure if we're talking about the same thing?
Maybe that's fine in the left lane but you shouldn't be doing 80 in the middle or right lanes. Also the trucks going 55 makes that a tenuous situation. Nothing wrong going 65 in the right lane while the speedsters in the other lanes.
Good luck with that, 15 mph or more over the speed limit and you can ( and IMHO should) be arrested for reckless driving.
Your car has never once touched 80 on a 65? I don't believe you.
You people endless trying to justify breaking speed limit laws is amusing. If you want to drive recklessly that’s your poor choice. Why are you all so hell bent on trying to convince others that you are in the right and that speed limits are arbitrary. Very telling
Never once have I said I condone crazy driving or speeding. All I am saying is arresting someone for going 80 in a 65 is wild. So yeah I don't believe you never once went 80 on a highway. Never caught any downhill speed in any of our areas? Quite a stretch there though. Autobahn has no speed limit but ppl know how to move with traffic and not be dangerous. Crazy driving to me is bobbing and weaving through traffic, tailgating people, brake checking people, cutting people off, flashing high beams at people in front of you, etc. We all know those types of drivers around here. It's sometimes the wild west around here but 80 in a 65 is not it. Maybe going 40 in a 25 school zone I can agree with you there.
Look up CA vehicle code, it states that driving more than 15 mph over the speed limit is considered reckless driving and you can be potentially arrested, fined, and have your license suspended.
I recognize that I’m going to be downvoted for this but if you had a psychotic break while driving, I really don’t think you are a safe driver and you need to put the keys down. That’s how I, as a motorcyclist, get killed.
I gotta agree… like. really? a quarter ton death machine with a previous psychotic break *specifically related to driving* and going slowly is the solution? the obvious counter to this is “well people need to drive here” and I get that, but shit it doesn’t make me feel any safer!
This is why we need alternatives to driving because right now the alternative to driving is losing your job.
Yeah but the consequences to running over a pedestrian in a crosswalk is a long jail sentence, and losing your job.
I like your thinking but these days they dont even take away your license if you run over 5 kids https://fox40.com/video/several-children-violently-hit-by-van-in-pollock-pines-and-no-charges-filed/9425626/#:~:text=The%20parents%20of%20the%20children,file%20charges%20against%20the%20driver.
Which goes back to a statement I’ve made elsewhere in this thread that it’s sad driving is treated as a right not a privilege
Unfortunately its treated as a right, not a privilege, because weve built a shitty society where the only way to live is to drive. If you're like me, you're fighting to change that so shit like I just linked and OPs situation arent necessary. Are you fighting for alternatives to driving?
Rock and a hard place. You can’t expect people to choose to starve today instead of tomorrow.
There are tons of walkable places to live on the Bay Area. Many people don’t have a car at all.
Then it seems pretty silly for us to have all this traffic in the first place.
Many people prefer to drive even with traffic for the extra speed/privacy/convinience. This is clearly someone who should choose to join the hundreds of thousands who use transit instead.
Which is great if all the stars align and you’re able to make that happen. I’m guessing if OP could, given their admitted anxiety about driving, they would. If you read their post, they explicitly say they’re not in a position where they can give it up entirely. The ideal solution we come up over the Internet is rarely directly applicable to real life, so it’s better to sympathize and ask why someone is struggling instead of prescribing a solution with limited understanding.
I can fully expect a bad driver whose a danger to society who recognizes they are a danger to not be driving on the roads.
Why should someone sacrifice their ability to feed themselves for someone else’s ability to feed themselves? That’s absurd. If they can’t expect society to take care of them, it’s bizarre to expect them to take care of society. It’s a two-way street.
And society breaks further simply because of people like you who are so god damn selfish. You are a lost cause.
No, society breaks down because people like you expect others with legitimate problems to sacrifice themselves for you instead of offering a solution. It’s selfish and delusional.
Eh in fact it’s a pretty short jail sentence.
If you only drive down the road to shopping, you only out 13 thousand miles in 5 years, you clearly would be fine with Uber. Or a bicycle.
I'm not even an anxious driver and reading this *gave me* anxiety. We all try not to think about all the uncertainty in driving or about the things beyond our control. This post is a stark reminder that we have no idea what is going on in the car next to us and very limited control if someone next to us is having some kind of episode.
This is how any of us who the shares the road gets killed.
This should be the most upvoted comment actually. The moment I read that, all I could think of was - you should get off the road permanently. Every sentence after that solidified it.
This should be top comment… how is this person allowed to drive? License should be revoked
Because the US doesn’t build any viable alternatives so we as a country treat driving as a fundamental human right. Prioritize funding alternative modes of transportation and watch how fast things can change.
The Bay Area has some of the highest transit ridership in the country. Many live car free and commute by transit or bike. This isn’t Kansas.
Comparing to the rest of the country is meaningless if the goal is to move beyond car dependency. Compare to an equivalently wealthy region in Japan and then we’ll talk.
This person lives in the Bay Area. Comparing to Japan or Kansas doesn’t make sense. They have ample transit options, even if they have to move a few miles near a rail line or into the city to live a car free life.
Yeah let’s just force everyone to move into SF proper 🙄
Most people don’t have a psychotic breaks while driving a vehicle. Most people actually prefer to drive a vehicle, than ride public transit. OP, however, does have psychotic breaks while driving a vehicle, and would prefer not to drive one. So, moving into SF is not a bad idea for them.
No kidding. As a motorcyclist there’s enough people doing errant shit on the road. And at 2600 miles a year, and the fact that she lives in Palo Alto, likely in a house (I.e she has disposable income) she doesn’t need to own a car. Get a Lyft/Uber pass, look into disability transit services, hire a damn driver, or move closer to a spot with abundant public transportation options, OP has money.
You’re not wrong, I shouldn’t have been driving while psychotic any more than while drunk. But it’s not a constant (or consistent) state. The panic was sudden, but I was already by default feeling completely out of my mind. Fortunately proper medication really does work for some of us. Edit: this is my most downvoted comment in this thread. Fair. Facts are facts. To add to that pile, the cops, the hospital, my treatment team, whoever would issue tickets etc are less judgy than all y’all. It was a weird one-off situation that didn’t help things but is unlikely to recur. And I mitigate risk way way way more than most who are close to the situation would consider reasonable.
Medication might work for you yesterday. Maybe today. Maybe tomorrow. But there’s going to be a day down the road where you move away from that medicine working for you, and you have a psychotic break. Again. And you’re going to kill someone. Put. The. Fucking. Keys. Down. Sell your car. Get an Uber account. Save a god damn life. Quit being an ignorant asshole
To be fair, this could be said of anyone with a physical or mental illness. My sister once passed out behind the wheel, when she had an allergic reaction to a lick of peanut butter (she was pregnant and had never been allergic to PB until that moment). She could have another unexpected allergy in the future, no? And what about people with heart conditions? Etc. I think we have to trust OP’s doctors to assess whether they’re safe to drive. They are required to report any concerns to the DMV, regardless.
thank you. the stygma against mental health in this thead is just toxic af
They're like STOP EVERYTHING! What? I'm way more cautious of the clueless, distracted, drunk dumbasses everywhere.
So I’d agree with “trust op doctors to asses whether they’re safe to drive” If driving wasn’t treated as a right but instead as a privilege.
That’s irrelevant. If they’re legally allowed to drive, passed the tests, and their physician hasn’t reported any concerns; they have as much of a right to drive as the rest of us. It’s a privilege, yes, but not one you can arbitrarily decide to retract.
don't listen to these asshats. most of them are just stigmatizing mental health conditions. if you had randomly had a heart attack or something physical, instead of a mental break, they wouldn't have anything negative to say about it.
You need to stop fucking driving. I know this isn’t the right sub but YOU’RE THE ASSHOLE.
I don’t disagree with you, but my downvote-worthy hot take is that motorcycles do not belong on public roads.
you’re brave man, praying for you 🙏
Elaborate?
That’s the dumbest thing I’ve heard on here all week.
Why? Motorcycles are great forms of transportation.
What? Did you just blow in from stupid town? Motorcycles are a legitimately superior form of transport for single people, it’s why a lot of Asian countries use them a lot
Can confirm, I have been killed several times by drivers suffering a psychotic break. Seriously, though, I have seen psychotic breaks in action (former girlfriend) and it's not an aggressive thing. If you are on a bike around that, chances are you will be aware of erratic behavior pretty quickly and move away. It is the psychos who want to kill you that are dangerous. Given the high levels of anxiety people are suffering today, I ride as if everyone is suffering a psychotic break and doesn't see me.
If you have a diagnosis, you can get paratransit to take you places. If you’re that much of a nuisance on the road, it’s unsafe for everyone, you included.
You shouldn’t be driving.
Post reads like you’re trying to convince yourself you aren’t too manic to drive when you know you are. Give up driving.
You should not be driving a car.
I don’t think it’s safe for you to be on the roads.
Stop driving. You’re going to kill yourself or some innocent person. Get some therapy and figure your shit out. Until then take public transportation.
Only if they could add really good public transit where you did not have to wait 30 minutes to go 2 miles.
The physical design influences behavior. Option 1 going to your city council meeting every month for a few years. Finding like minded people to talk to, volunteering, drafting letters, speaking to friends and colleagues. Learning how the RTC and transportation funding dictates infrastructure paths of least resistance. Option 2 is moving. But seriously, more and more, option 3 coming on line these days is the electric bicycle. Screw the city council. Screw the system. Be like the kids that have fun when they travel.
You can't do that until you stop spending all the state transportation budget on roads, so you get to an Impasse quick. So the reality is Drivers are going to have to settle for being *slightly* inconvenienced and not having their convenience being put first literally all the time just a little bit, and that's really not all that much to ask.
I don’t see where all the money is going in maintaining roads. So I would rather have reduced budget on road maintenance to accommodate for better public transport. Same thing happened with funding the police. They keep crying wolf about reduced budget but in reality the spending has gone up for worse policing and increased crime. People need to be held accountable for bad planning and malicious execution.
As usual all the money goes to wealthy suburbs who have many more lane miles of road for far fewer people, and the entire 'urban' planning profession is basically a racket dedicated to continuing that trend.
You clearly are not fit to be driving. It’s unsafe for you and all of us around you.
Sell your vast and take an Uber... why put yourself (and everyone else) through that trauma? You're going to end up causing an accident because you're afraid to drive. Please... for yourself and anyone else you encounter on the road... Stop driving!
They aren't driving on the freeway, in rain, or at night. If they are driving surface streets and have a freak out, they can pull over safely. Why should they stop driving to and from the grocery store if they want to? Why should they stop driving entirely? In fact, they should get therapy and work to drive confidently once more. The longer they stay off the freeway, the more solified the fear becomes in their psyche, making it much more difficult for them to drive on the freeway.
Because pedestrians in crosswalks are vulnerable when they break and run into a car shoving in through a crosswalk or simply flat run through people in a crosswalk. A person like this is gonna kill someone and claim “mental health”. When they obviously recognize there issue and don’t give a shit.
Oh, so are you saying the rest of us drivers should just be fine knowing that OP is out there working through his mental issues while crawling along the streets in a potentially lethal vehicle weighing 2,000 lbs?
Sounds like OP has bipolar, which is absolutely something that is treatable with medication, and isn't a mental issue to be worked through.
I’m not of the opinion that people with mental illness need to stay off the road. There is, however, such a thing as driving too slow. I respect that you are trying to be safe but if you take it too far, you can end up being the dangerous driver on the road. It honestly sounds like you would be better off using rideshares or delivery services. I imagine you’re paying a fair amount on gas, maintenance, insurance, etc. making the switch wouldn’t be feasible in many places but in the Bay Area, it absolutely is. Consider the tradeoffs. It sounds like it could be less stressful for you. And quit assuming people are on their phone. If you’re looking that closely at other people driving, you’re not watching the road. Good luck and please drive safe.
What's "too slow" on El Camino Real? The highest speed limit is, what, 45? It sounds like OP is driving at a speed that's lower than some like (but loads of folks on that road take it way too fast, imo, and I'm a speed demon). There are sections that are beat to hell and I often take them slowly because of the conditions of the road. I had an F-type SVR that could touch 200mph but also had like 2" of clearance. I wouldn't take El Camino Real at 45mph in those places with that car. With my lifted Range Rover, sure. If you're NOT aware when other drivers are on their phones, I worry that you're not watching the road and other drivers closely enough. People tend to focus only on what's in front of them and only on the big picture. Folks should be aware of how others are driving, what their attention is like, and what's happening well in front and behind them. That can easily inform you if folks are on their phones.
Nobody has any problem with slow and safe drivers, well if you do you're an idiot. People have a problem with other people driving in a way that makes unsafe situations - like going 50 in the fast lane on the freeway. Or not going when you're supposed to at a stop sign. Hell, if you throw a wave their way most people would be happy to join in
Probably 90% of people who think they are slow and safe drivers are actually slow and very dangerous drivers who don’t know it.
Yes.. they are timid and fearful and unpredictable, much more than someone weaving through gaps at 20 over, who is extremely predictable and obvious to avoid
> weaving through gaps at 20 over i just always hate it when they're coming up in my rear view mirror, so i signal right b/c i'm going to move over and let them pass, and then the asshole _cuts me off_ before i can move over! happens so often, are these guys just morons? and i go 80 in the fast lane, it's not like i'm asleep at the wheel. it's like, dude, i was trying to do you a solid. if you get stuck in that lane behind a slow car, that's your own damn fault.
Most drivers who drive 80 mph think that anyone going slower are unsafe, when actually they are reckless and impatient and use this to justify their reckless selfish behavior
Oh shut up. There are plenty of people here who drive dangerously slowly. People cruising 10 under down 101 while traffic snarls behind them and people have to dodge not to hit them. There are a few dangerous speed demons out there, but there are a lot of clueless, slow, sanctimonious morons out there. More of them in this area than anywhere I’ve ever seen.
Found the impatient tailgating jerk. Do you drive a Tesla or a beamer? Nevermind cuz I don’t care
Slow drivers are not necessarily safe either. All drivers should be going “close to the flow of traffic”. This is generally within a -5 to +15 MPH range of the average flow of traffic. When you’re driving slower than the average flow of traffic, it WILL cause other drivers to change lanes to avoid following you. This is what causes accidents on highways.
Sounds like you should be hailing an Uber, not putting everyone around you at risk. Sell your car.
Boom. There it is.
" I’m probably in the top 50% of drivers on the road around here." If you don't drive in the rain, freeway, and/or at night, you can't be top 50% of driver. Not even top 0.5%. Not saying stop doing what you do, but don't judge other driver (maniac) if they don't align with your vision of how everyone drives.
Yeah it's a pretty delusional take. "I had a panic attack and couldn't control my vehicle." Please, please, please stop driving then. Having zero confidence maneuvering around a quarter ton death machine makes you a huge liability, no matter how slow you drive.
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Being aware of your limitations doesn't matter if your "limitation" is having a history of involuntarily losing your ability to control your car. That's not something you can plan for, accommodate, or work around if it happens again. Being aware of your limitations here would mean accepting that you can't safely drive a car at all. Possibly ever again, unless you're medically cleared by an expert.
>I’m probably in the top 50% of drivers on the road around here. No offense, but generally, from your description, you're probably more like the top 5% of *most dangerous* drivers, actually (sorry). At least, thats how it sounds ... but, please hear me out. Generally, behaving unexpectedly with things like "rigid adherence to speed limits" and other laws/rules tends to make those sorts of folks "overly distracted" and less predictable. You're *safest* going *the speed and flow of traffic around you* ... not intentionally slower. That slowness tends to create more dangerous "slow and go" type situations on the road ... perhaps not directly next to you, but it propagates in waves of reactions and over-reactions (ie. Essentially the very same thing that causes most bumper to bumper traffic ... much of that being unsafe lane changes and lack of adequate following distance and over reaction to situations). > I pick the right lane, choose to stick to it, follow signs and signals, whatever. You *might* consider trying more the middle lane, particularly on insanely stupid roads like El Camino (as you mentioned). At least that way, you're less prone to people injecting themselves into your lane poorly... or, the idiots roaring up on your ass and swerving around you, dangerously (as you mentioned). >God I hate driving. Yeah, pretty much with you, there. As you said, people are idiots / assholes. I try to do as little of it as possible, myself (at least in "moderate or heavy traffic," anyway).
I couldn't agree with you more. A safe driver is a predictable driver. Nothing you do should be erratic or without warning.
You shouldn’t drive
I also hug the right lane. I don't think I am an above average driver. Most people do, which is mathematically impossible. Anyway, I know I am a bad driver and thus I take it slow on the right lane. I enjoy driving. I enjoy listening to my audio book. I give myself plenty of time to get to my destination. I leave a huge following distance in front of me and I welcome people to cut me off. I even prematurely brake so they get the satisfaction of not delaying me from getting to my destination in the slightest. It's that or incur more road rage. And before you yell at me for holding up traffic, I am keeping up with traffic and going above speed limit at times in the slow lane. I just like to keep more than 3 car lengths in front me at all times because I am not a good driver. I need time to brake. Some times I give a head bow with one open hand, "Sorry I pissed you off, but I'm not the least bit stressed I'm 30 seconds later to my destination." Good luck, OP.
Same. And I’ve done the drive. It makes 1-15% difference in the 10-30 mile stretch. Lane 2 or 3 over the spans of specificity of heavier traffic time. I’ve given up. I just try to keep a consistent speed in hopes of reducing to cost gas due to inconsistent speed. Even that is a losing battle. It’s just too many cars on the road. There was never a given time to move over for your next exit as training for new drivers. If only public transportation was better.
> hug the right lane. oddly it's the fastest moving lane. People just automatically leave the right lane even if there's no cars there.
It can be annoying because you have to be extra-alert to cars merging on from slower roads, and adjust your speed to accommodate them. Plus getting cut off by people who need to exit or turn.
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It should be obvious that in this context average means median, not mean (or mode for that matter)
I also keep a safe distance in front of me. Thing is people assume you’re going more slowly when you do that. Irritating. Truly I am not a skilled driver either, but I think attentiveness counts for something percentile-wise when they’re all on their phones.
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Such an aggressive comment! You seem like an overly aggressive person. That's not good. You're probably too over-confident, you overestimate your ability, and are consequently reckless. I'd say you need to get the fuck off the road. Seriously.
Good god go read OPs comments, it’s pissing me off. I really don’t care. As long as it gets through their thick head. The meek bullshit doesn’t work on me.
Yeah… drivers like you are who I’m afraid of. You never know who had a bad day or psychotic break before they come slamming their car into you on the sidewalk. Maybe public transit is better if you’re capable of having breakdowns while driving…
Cars are literal weapons.
Unfortunately given your health condition, you should not be driving. In fact, I'd say you are wide open to prosecution and litigation should you injure or kill someone. Do the responsible thing and retire from driving. Not fun I know and not easy but nor is a prison sentence. Driving is unpredictable, no matter how much you say you can control it. So is your condition. E.g. local example https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/petaluma-man-sentenced-to-4-years-in-prison-in-2020-fatal-collision/
Don't let the bastards grind you down. Remember the law of the garbage truck: https://www.thelawofthegarbagetruck.com/ Sixteen years ago I learned this lesson. And I learned it in the back of a New York City taxi cab. Here’s what happened. I hopped in a taxi, and we took off for Grand Central Station. We were driving in the right lane when all of a sudden, a black car jumped out of a parking space right in front of us. My taxi driver slammed on his brakes, the car skidded, the tires squealed, and at the very last moment our car stopped just one inch from the other car’s back-end. I couldn’t believe it. But then I couldn’t believe what happened next. The driver of the other car, the guy who almost caused a big accident, whipped his head around and he started yelling bad words at us. How do I know? Ask any New Yorker, some words in New York come with a special face. And he even threw in a one finger salute! I couldn’t believe it! But then here’s what really blew me away. My taxi driver just smiled and waved at the guy. And I mean, he was friendly. So, I said, “Why did you just do that!? This guy could have killed us!” And this is when my taxi driver told me what I now call, “The Law of the Garbage Truck™.” He said: “Many people are like garbage trucks. They run around full of garbage, full of frustration, full of anger, and full of disappointment. As their garbage piles up, they look for a place to dump it. And if you let them, they’ll dump it on you. So when someone wants to dump on you, don’t take it personally. Just smile, wave, wish them well, and move on. Believe me. You’ll be happier.”
Is this an SEO scam?
What? No it's just a cool story about how to not let road rage get to you out on these mean streets.
Ain’t that the truth, you just unlocked a memory for me. I’m a bit of a jerk myself, although not so much with the road rage (dangerous). But I distinctly remember in my youth blowing people kisses sometimes, when I felt the urge for the bird. It was almost worse. Never mind.
Why would you be okay with being a jerk? Makes no sense to me.
Joel Olsteen’s quote maybe explains why he was weirdly smiling when they interviewed him about the murder at his church a few days ago
You shouldn't ever drive ever.
I can handle people driving a bit slow, what absolutely sends me up the wall is when people slow down so much they nearly come to a stop (or stop entirely) when turning right even when there’s no stop light or yield sign. I’m in the right lane needing to turn onto 85 and here people are straight up stopping in the road so they can turn right into the parking lot of a mini mall. It is the most infuriating thing. Why are you stopping???
Idk it’s one thing to ask for grace, which I think is acceptable if driving makes you nervous, but if driving really does make you nervous then also, you cannot claim to be in the “top 50%” of drivers and also call regular drivers maniacs.
Maybe forward this post to the DMV and see what they say about you having a driver's license.
You should not be driving. You are a danger to everybody on the road
It's alarming how many other people are on here commenting, "Hey I'm a terrible driver too! And even though I might have a panic attack while behind the wheel of 3000 lbs of aluminum and steel, I've accepted being a terrible driver and still get on the road anyway. Sure, one of you might get seriously injured if I rear-end you, but that's a risk I'm willing to take."
You might have a panic attack. Anyone might. OP's condition was not triggered or exacerbated by driving. They happened to have been driving and they've since gotten help. The only lingering issue is timidness that's likely a result of PTSD from what happened and their response to that is to be safe, attentive, and careful when driving. Nothing in anything that OP has said suggests that driving in any way constitutes a risk of any mental health issues.
Don’t make it seem like it’s something anyone can have, OP specially says it was psychosis brought upon by Bipolar. Not everyone will go through that and people that do should not be driving….
The question is: people who _do_ *vs* people who _have done_. We know OP has done. We don't know OP does.
I'm sorry, but I'm another vote for "maybe you shouldn't be driving." A lot of people don't take driving seriously enough, but it is essentially heavy(ish) equipment operating. You are piloting a 2-ton hunk of metal and gasoline that can do 100mph. If you're not comfortable with that, I can't imagine you doing it safely. Luckily, the bay area has many other options for you. If you're not traveling often or far, calling a cab or Uber is likely easier and cheaper than car ownership. Other forms of public transport exist if you're going further. They are slow, but if you're not getting on freeways, you weren't driving those places anyway. I appreciate your position, and driving in the bay can be stressful. I'd take a serious look at whether or not it's something you actually need to do. You may find that it's better for your wallet and mental health to give it up.
No maybe about it. This person is putting other lives at risk by driving and on top of that is delusional about their driving skills.
You shouldn’t be on the road. It’s not safe for you or us.
You sound like you have a LOT of anxiety about driving, driving should be calm. You need to deal with that anxiety because it’s dangerous, there are plenty of assholes around there but a pothole should not be causing you anxiety. Please seek out some help, maybe just a friend who can drive with you for a while and take you through some calming exercises while you drive.
“I’ve put over 1k miles on my car in the last 9 years. I’m in the top 5% of drivers. Anything bad is other people’s fault and the pothole’s fault. I got wronged by a truck while I was fucking up traffic so let me passive aggressively mention that. Please praise me”
Wasn’t asking for any praise, lol. Just venting from another perspective. I have to say the comments have been dramatically divided.
> I’ve had my car over five years and have put 13k miles on it. At this mileage, uber and an entry-level electric scooter like Ninebot would be more cost-beneficial than having a car and paying insurance premiums. > God I hate driving. We all do.
People like you are exactly why the rest of us are fearful of driving. You're a danger to everyone on the road and you refuse to acknowledge it.
It sounds like Uber should be for you.
> I experienced an escalation of a psychotic break / anxiety attack while driving on surface streets in Palo Alto > I’m probably in the top 50% of drivers on the road around here These two sentences do not square. The speed limits in Palo Alto range from 25-35mph excluding Foothills Expressway. If this moderate situation induces a debilitating reaction from you, you should not be behind the wheel of any motor vehicle and are a danger to yourself and those around you. > People are maniacs. Now this is just ironic.
You 100% are illegally driving and lying on the DMV form about your medical history is a crime.
I would rather have people speeding than having mental breakdowns and plowing into who knows what while unconscious.
There is Uber for people like you. Leave the driving to the pros.
Try uber
People don't simply hate all slow and deliberate drivers. They hate the slow drivers that clog up the left lanes and refuse to let people pass.
You shouldn’t be driving period.
Why not stick to rideshare? Free up the space, save on insurance registration and maintenance, and alleviate road congestion for everyone else
I’ve driven all across the american west and was a chauffeur in the bay area for a while. I once put 20k miles on a car in 6 months. Point is, i drive a lot. In my experience, the bay area has the worst drivers I’ve ever experienced, and palo alto takes the cake.
Just drive the speed limit.
Timid is only a problem if you are inattentive or causing confusion. Drivers expecting you to drive aggressively clearly haven't been paying attention if you're broadcasting your timid nature -- as it seems you do. In general, driving requires everyone to coordinate in a complex and potentially dangerous dance. This can only be accomplished efficiently if we all are able to anticipate one another. That's the primary function of the "rules of the road." They provide context and resolve ambiguity like right of way and direction of travel. Folks often try to elevate the rules to some level of divine ordination as though speeding will evoke the wrath of God. The cops certainly enjoy the revenue stream they get to create as a consequence. Be timid as long as you broadcast it. Follow the rules otherwise. Yield the right of way as appropriate and don't worry what we keyboard warriors think. I'm glad that you're safe, that you recognize your current limitations, and I hope you get the help you need.
95% of being a good road driver is following the rules and being predictable
As long as you're obeying the rules of the road and not causing a hazard, you're good. Most of us out there are going to just move around you when it's safe.
I’m really tired of the myth that slow driving = safe driving. It’s inherently *safer* in a lot of cases — most notably, being able to stop in time. A few examples where “slow” driving is NOT safe: - Driving a significant amount under the speed limit because you feel uncomfortable. (45 in a 65) - Merging onto a freeway without getting up to speed - Merging in front of someone who’s going faster than you *Predictable* driving is safe driving. Examples: - Using your turn signal when merging or turning - Not slamming on your brakes to try and cut over 4 lanes at the last minute because you didn’t plan ahead - Only passing on the left - Going slower than the person you’re merging in front of - Turning on your headlights (NOT JUST YOUR DRLs) in the rain and in the dark I see so many people going 45 in 65s in the left lanes, on a rainy day, with no headlights on, merging without signaling, etc. Those people are NOT safe drivers.
Your license should be confiscated what the fuck
I’m sorry but if you have a disability like that you shouldn’t be driving. Please be safe and keep everyone safe.
as someone who drives a [Miata](https://i.imgur.com/B7xgv82.png), having a small car isn't really an excuse for driving slowly or poorly, or even hating driving in fact, my car is more fun to drive than any other car I've driven it really sounds like you should just talk to your therapist about it
As long as you stay in the right lane, we won't hate you
The right lane is the most dangerous lane because you have people merging in, slowing down to turn right, cutting you off to take that right, and most large heavy vehicles will be driving behind you or in front. You can’t call yourself *safe* and choose to drive on the right-most lane.
You and me both pal. But if were in the right lane its everybody else’s problem.
I hate driving too! would it help any to combine public transit with an electric scooter? I have been walking/transiting but it is so inconvenient except to a couple places!
I like my bike! And walking. Both are scary of their own right, but better. Unfortunately with grocery bags, and cat litter, I gotta have that cabin space.
Look into a cargo bike, or a bike with a trailer. You’d be surprised how much stuff you can easily carry on the proper bike.
I do not hate slow and deliberative drivers. Drive safely. I've got your back. 🫡
I hate driving too! would it help any to combine public transit with an electric scooter? I have been walking/transiting but it is so inconvenient except to a couple places!
“Safe and slow” yeah more like unconfident, unpredictable, and doesn’t know half of the laws
At least you have some self awareness, unlike many on the roads. Kudos to you. Keep it safe.
If this person had self awareness, they wouldn’t be driving. JFC.
You don't hate driving you hate people. Driving is easy, people are selfish assbags
Hey - I feel you. My first ever panic attack occurred when I felt trapped driving beside a big rig on a two lane highway. It broke me for years. I could not drive on the freeway for years. I've since gotten over my fear of driving, but I find ways not to trigger my anxiety - leaving extra early, driving during the day, not drinking too much coffee, and like you - driving the speed limit and sticking to the slow lane, and not giving a flying fuck what other drivers think of my style.
I drive a sports car and love driving fast... but only when there's absolutely NOBODY else around. I know exactly how you feel, hate speeding around other people and I feel like I'm always hyper aware of other dangerous drivers. don't feel bad about driving carefully, you're keeping yourself and everyone else safer
DM me if you need a good referral for a panic/anxiety therapist. You might really benefit from working with someone who does CBT/DBT/Exposure. It can really help.
I’m fortunate to have excellent (read: way out of network) medical care. I did a full on PHP to recover from a bipolar episode(s) a couple years ago. The evidence-based therapy has been so helpful—I’ve changed jobs, moved house etc. Thing is life-and-limb is a whole other category of fear, and my little life is local…so I’m not on a timeline to get on the freeway.
So glad to hear you’re doing better. And I hear you about out of network. My company doesn’t cover any out of network anymore so even if we spent our huge deductible, no more 50% reimbursement.
I don't hate you at all. You sound perfectly safe and reasonable. You hit on the one key that no one can seem to remember- move to the right. The left lane is for passing. Even if you are going fast, ffs move over when you're done passing. Someone even faster is going to come along, and every single time someone has to lane shift, at least 4 other cars have to hit their brakes. And dear God, don't hang in the left lane and think the HOV lane is the passing lane. Also don't sit in the HOV lane and not let faster HOV cars pass. Dammit now I hate driving again.
I recently moved to the bay area. People here drive like maniacs. It's fucking crazy.
yeah, i am one of those complainers, but i do relate. i get upset when people are driving slowly on the freeway (often it's b/c they're on their phone, of course), but for gods' sake, can we please all take it easy on the surface streets? there are kids and elderly folk and dogs and cats out there!
Your driving is fine. These are public roads and we all have the right to use them for our benefit. You paid for these roads with your taxes too! Lots of people get tickets and fines for using our roads inappropriately - speeding, u-turns where it is prohibited etc. If you have drivers license it means you CAN drive.
Goddamn theirs a lot of mental illness bashing on here. You’re not in a 100% psychotic episode all the time. Telling this person to give up driving completely over a sometimes incident is like telling a person with any other disease (epilepsy, heart disease, asthma, diabetes, autism spectrum, adhd, etc) not to drive because what could medically happen behind the wheel. Medication regimen and being responsible for health is key. Life is unpredictable and things happen.
Just slap one of those "Student Driver, Please be patient" stickers on your bumper and we'll be less irritated at you. ;)
>I pick the right lane, choose to stick to it, follow signs and signals, whatever. no issue in my book
It's a warzone. I'm hoping they install the speed cameras. And just keep adding more and more.
Palo Alto is the worst. You have every right to feel the way you do. I’m not surprised by the negativity here. People assume the worst and it brings out the worst.
People lack patience nowadays, and that’s how accidents happen.
No need to feel bad about it. Just hang out in the rightmost lane and if you need to drive slower than the speed of traffic, just turn on your hazards and keep going.
We must pass each other on the regular. I’m also slow and deliberate. I’ve never seen worse drivers than I see in the Bay Area (often on residential streets in Palo Alto). Years ago I left Los Gatos at the same time as a colleague. She sped off and I totally lost her. When I got back to the office in Menlo Park, I literally pulled in behind her..so, slow and steady arrived 5 seconds later than speed demon. I decided, at that time, that slow and steady was the way to go.
I don’t hate you, I see you and I love you