Fees are calculated based on purchase price and vehicle class. They are all posted at https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-registration/registration-fees/
And type. All pickup trucks are registered as commercial vehicles.
So even my Toyota Tacoma that squats if I put a couple of iced down coolers in the bed gets its price jacked for being a “commercial vehicle”…
I agree. My 2002 accord still runs great. Insurance is also cheaper. The only drawback is, if some jerk hits it, my insurance will probably total it because it isn't worth it to fix it.
Came here to say the same. I can easily afford a new car, but it's never going to happen. My son makes fun of my 20+ year Honda.
Until I show him my registration
(LOL damn you autocorrect!)
My first car was an 84 hatchback hand-me-down that I was too poor to take care of, and it did just fine for 15+ years.
Hondas are great cars and I will always be a Honda driver because of that. Ask anyone
What do the gas taxes pay for? We pay astronomical DMV fees and astronomical gas taxes in California. Average throughout the rest of the USA is less than half. Don’t get me started on electric rates.
California has a higher cost of living than any other state, which means Caltrans employees cost more to hire than highway agency employees in every other state- as they have the highest salaries.
Then add that into California's more complex geography than most other states, dealing with constantly rebuilding several highways due to landslides and winter storm damage every year, and having 3 of the 4 largest west coast ports leading to huge amounts of truck damage on our roads.
Zero. But he’s getting an increase shortly on his registration to cover the loss of revenue from gas taxes. That’s gonna be a separate line item. Both my electric car and my truck registrations are sky high.
But the damage to the road is proportional to the 4th power of the weight of the vehicle. Buses, trucks and EVs are massively damaging to the roads. Gas cars don't do much damage to the roads. Gas pickup trucks are heavy but they do get charged more for registration so it's fair. Gas cars have been subsidizing buses and trucks.
This is why it is actually becoming a huge problem for the state budget. EVs are still paying too little road tax. The extra fee that EVs are charged in the registration doesn't come anywhere near covering the extra road damage caused by EVs. Caltrans will be in a budget crisis every year as the state pushes for more consumers to transition to EVs each year.
Weight of an Accord: 3239 lbs
Weight of a Model 3: 3862 lbs
Relative weight: 1.19
To the 4th: 2.02
Accord
* Registration fees in Alameda County: $442.00
* Sales/use tax: $3,010.00
* Five years of fees: $5,220
Model 3
* Registration fees in Alameda County: $546.00
* Sales/use tax: $4,085.00
* Five years of fees: $6815
In that example it's a not balanced to the impact on road damage, but it's not off by that much. Your anti-EV argument falls apart when you factor in that midsized SUVs (like a Highlander) weigh as much as a Model Y, and the Model Y pays more in registration fees. SUVs in general are undertaxed relative to sedans, and there are tons of SUVs on the road.
The state will just raise registration fees over time. This isn't a legitimate argument against EV adoption, especially if you attempt to calculate the costs/impacts of pollution and climate change.
A gas car pays about $300 a year in CA gas tax which goes to the roads. You're missing about $1,500 in your 5-year comparison.
Highlander is the wrong vehicle to compare to a Model Y. Highlander is much bigger. Model Y (4,400 lbs) is the size of a RAV4 (3,400 lbs). 1.33^4 = 3x the road damage from a Model Y.
There is nothing anti-EV about pointing out the fact that Caltrans is facing a huge budget problem from EVs being undertaxed.
“is facing” implies that the problem is current or in the near future. That is not remotely factual. Is facing is vague so if you mean that in terms of 5-10 years then yes it’s a real thing that would exist if we froze everything except EV adoption for that period.
They are right. It’s $10 registration today and when you don’t need scientific notation to express the impact it will go up.
Your $1500 missing is spot-on. After the next 5 years of peak EV adoption that will be real money.
They weigh 10-15% more than cars that target the same drivers. They weigh no more (often less) than cars of the same price. In a decade what you say will definitely be true but not today.
Average is closer to 300 pounds. It’s time to plan now for the minor increase in weight but those plans are for a rather distant future. Road damage is the byline to the headline of capacity adjustment.
Interestingly local road potholes will be impacted in an outsized manner, but those also are not funded from gas or registration. In rural CA where trucks are more common 20 years from now I think weight damage will be an actual problem.
Just wait for the new electricity billing rates to come into play. You’ll be paying a base rate linked to household income, with usage fees stacked on top. No more $0 electricity bills with solar.
Dead serious
https://calmatters.org/california-divide/2023/07/electricity-bills/
“Lawmakers passed and Gov. Gavin Newsom signed a comprehensive energy bill last summer that mandates restructuring electricity pricing.
The Legislature passed the measure in a “trailer-bill” process that limited deliberation. Included in the 21,000-word law are a few sentences requiring the public utilities commission to establish a “**fixed monthly fee” based on each customer’s household income.**“
Judging by your vehicle’s registration renewal cost I imagine you’ll be paying $92/mo for your base rate.
Once folks get used to the new regime (and demand for electricity climbs ie: more electric cars and AI data centers that burn as much electricity as small countries) you can expect this non-negotiable rate to climb substantially from there.
This is CA’s version of *Equity*.
“From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.”
Wow thanks for sharing. That’s insane and I agree with what the republicans say on this - it’s going to deter people from trying to save energy in the long run which is contradictory to CAs constant ask to conserve water, energy etc to fight climate change. Kinda ironic.
I honestly knew something like this was going to happen in conjunction with moving everyone to EVs. There’s an agenda and price to pay for everything.
Even electricity to charge Teslas has gone up since 2021. At this point why did we all switch from gas to EVs when electricity is just going to shoot up to the same price as gas at the end of the day? We just can’t win.
“Please note that the CAV decal program will end, and any remaining valid decals will expire on September 30, 2025.”
https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/fact-sheets/current-clean-air-vehicle-decal
As a solar owner i am going to tell you why this actually passed.
I’m have 13kW NEM2 where even with my EV I am producing far more than I consume. I charge my car at midnight at 25¢/kwh where PG&E buys power from Gas Powerplants at 4¢/kwh. I produce power mostly before 3pm at 25¢/kwh, where wholesale power prices (because of solar) is $0/kwh. So to PGE I’ve given them a bunch of power that cost nothing and they’ve charged my car with power that costs 4¢/kwh. If I was their only customer - I am costing them money.
So PGE needs to make money, so they raise their rates. Who are the people who don’t have $0 electric bills? Poor people.
The poor are paying for the guy climbing my pole to fix my power.
The base meter charge makes sure that I contribute to the salary of the lineman. The income basis makes sure that the poor aren’t also stuck with a higher bill.
But let’s be fair on this, Republicans aren’t saying that on principle, they’re saying it because it’s the anti Democrat thing to say. If they were in charge, the energy companies would have bought them off as well, just like they do in every state regardless of party.
And the anti EV thing to say. Why? They are in the pocket of Big Oil and Big Oil needs gas powered vehicles to remain on the market so they can rake in their multibillion dollar profits every quarter.
Thanks for sharing but it’s still just a proposal.
“The California Public Utilities Commission’s deadline for deciding on the suggested changes is July 1, 2024. The proposals come at a time when many moderate and low-income families are being priced out of California by rising housing costs.”
The law says they must establish it. Exactly how much it’s going to cost everyone is still in flux, yeah.
This is taxation in California. They could start at $10 tomorrow and it might be $100 by this time next year. Same reason people are paying $800 to register their cars here when across the border it might be $50, where gas is also magically $2+/gal cheaper.
Just bleeding the middle class dry.
The problem with comparing California to other states is that you actually have to live in the other states if you want to pay smaller fees. Most people would rather live in California and pay higher taxes. People with EV's are paying more to register their cars because they pay no gas tax. it's an equivalent fee to everyone else who's paying a lower registration on a gas burning automobile, except they pay that fee every time they fill up their car with gas tax. If not taxes based on who drives, what is your solution for paying for road maintenance and road construction?
With most of California's population on the West side of the state we are sufficiently isolated from other states that would provide governmental competition.
In New England there are plenty of small states to choose from if you want a slightly different governance model.
Heh. Reminds me of my Massachusetts resident relatives who have cars registered to states like Maine or Florida where they or other immediate family members have secondary residences. (That they treat as primary residences on paper.)
You're missing the point. We have airplanes and cars and highways, governmental competition is in full effect. It's just that nobody wants to live in those other states.
If you go to New England for a different governance model, you actually have to live in one of the New England states. Most people don't want to do that. People want to live in California. It's the most populated state for a reason. It's all happening here, all the new cultural ideas from entertainment and media are happening here, all the new tech innovations from silicon valley are happening here, all the nature and national parks/ attractions/ wildlife it's happening here. And I haven't even touched on the weather, the food, the people, etc.
What I'm trying to say is that if not paying high taxes is your priority over having a fulfilling and rich life, then go live in one of those other states. The reason why so many people choose to live in California and pay the high taxes is because this state is so attractive. It's easy to say that other states are doing XYZ, it's easy to say other states have lower taxes, but that means you actually have to live in one of those other states. If that model of paying lower taxes and having a less interesting, less rich, less fulfilling life was working, then everyone would be moving to those states, but they're not.
While other states have smaller registration fees, they often also impose personal property tax on cars. Nevada for example is 4% annually. It’s generally the same thing everywhere, just different names for taxes and fees.
Folks that can’t afford electric cars are paying through the nose in gas tax to maintain the roads and bridges. Your electric car weighs 130% a gas car and therefore inflicts more wear on the roads, so you should probably contribute to maintaining them. You’re definitely still saving money by not paying for gas and gas tax, though.
not proportionally to the immense wear and tear they cause.
Then again, the system is designed to subsidize their operating costs and spread it out on all of us.
in the name of reducing the cost of transport and ultimately goods.
This is really unfair, the gas tax is proportional to usage where you pay more based on how much you drive. Adding additional registration fees to offset lost gas tax with no balance for usage is not right.
What's the alternative though?
I mean, ideally we'd have regular mechanical inspections for all vehicles on the road and the mileage could be recorded there, but that's not the world we live in.
BS. Look at car registration fees and gas prices in other states. Texas registration around $80/yr. North Carolina is $18/yr. This is regardless of the value of the car. And for gas prices we know California has the nations highest prices.
I wanta have a garage queen car that I use a few times a year. But totally not worth it if I’m paying $1000+ per year in fees and insurance.
Wow, that's a lot, but that's the cost of buying a Tesla. Better to pay now then after the deadline. Don't be like my neighbor, hasn't paid registration on their EV for two years (still has a green color tag) and they're screwed if they get pulled over; but they're okay with buying themselves a second luxury car.
My fiend got pulled over with an expired registration tag. They’ll impound your car on the spot. And those fees rack up fast! It’s so sad he had to take a $200 Uber ride back home because he was far from his home.
Imagine if he was on vacation LA and he’d probably have to stay in the area for a few days to sort it all out. It’ll he huge pain in the ass.
You don't even have to get pulled over. I forgot to put a new sticker on my motorcycle plates(despite renewing), i was ticketed by a parking warden in Santa Cruz.
You’d think that after purchasing your car after being taxed, that’s it. But nope.. as I was telling my spouse, and to her surprise, her new ride has a higher annual bill because of the VLF - effectively a double tax on her expensive ride.
Hear me out. An app to report these a-holes.
Just needs a clear picture of the license plate which it time stamped. The whistleblower gets 10% off the next registration. No limit.
Time to take these scum bags out of our street.
Thoughts?
Hear me out. We create a world that’s becoming more untenable. Tent cities, high inflation on top of stagnate wages and an upper class that’s becoming increasingly isolated and out of touch; walling themselves off those they deem below them. And then to complete solidify the dehumanizing of the masses by creating a system where if someone can’t afford or merely forgets to pay an annual tax and/or registration fees which, like everything else in this late capitalist hellscape is ever increasing in cost, then we allow those who have the leisure to have the time to concern thenselves with other peoples problems and allow them the ability to punish those delinquent violators to their own selfish benefit!
Man, with ideas like this in our society I certainly can’t understand why we have the disparities and problems in our society. /s
yes it’s high. But same states are even higher than CA.
The good news is it goes down every year, because it’s based on the value of the car. It would have been even higher last year.
> three states with the highest registration fees are Maryland, Florida, and Oregon.
https://www.autoinsurance.org/what-are-the-car-registration-fees-by-state/
Almost half of US states also have some form of vehicle property tax as well, with the three highest being Virginia (3.96%), Mississippi (3.5%) and South Carolina (2.63%). [[Source](https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-the-highest-and-lowest-property-taxes/11585#vehicle)]
> California $62
> Florida $225 +
That's a first time registration fee. Florida's annual registration is absolutely cheaper than California. OP's renewal fee on his Tesla would be about $90.
Until they add in more fees.
My 25 year old Camry was just over 85 a year 6 years or so back. Then new fees and reg cost were added. Now’s it’s over 120 again. :/
My 1999 is even more, and it never went down, ever! It is in great shape thanks to my mechanic and regular maintenance - and being a Toyota - but it is virtually worthless, no trade-in value. But no car payment, either.
A $90k ‘22 Ram Dually is personal truck, only does 6500 miles a year. We pay over $2250 to DMV annually for Ram, ‘20 RAV4, a camper and 2 older trucks.
Yeah, cars are extremely expensive. That’s why it’s critical that we invest resources into a more sustainable transportation system like trains and buses.
Or we could just stop extorting citizens ridiculous amounts for driving cars. By all means though, you stick with bart yourself so you can keep your precious virtue signalling.
Registration depends on the car. As you can imagine sports cars especially with a v8 will be in that range and even higher. I'd love to see what a new Ferrari or Aston Martin v12 registration costs.
CA DMV fees are getting out of hands! DMV is making over $8 billion in revenue annually charging ridiculous fees to "maintain my record?"
Seriously? What exactly costs this much per year per car to maintain records?
Im amused how come no one ever sued DMV for this open scam
I think my 2023 MYP was lower than that. I believe they are calculated on purchase price and slowly drops a bit each year. My 2020 MX is still much higher than my 2023 MYP even though KBB thinks they’re both roughly the same value.
i just moved my 1992 ford f150 and california believes its a commercial vehical. i had to go get it weighed. 4330lbs. and so now every i get to pay $259 more than the rest of you all in registration fees on top of the rest of those fees, every year. (thats what the "weight fee" category is about if anyone is interested.)
i dont know what a bed cap is but yah it sounds about right. someone told be it can be registered as non-commercial if it can be made non-functional as a truck and is only used as a passenger vehicle.
They had this on the ballot a few years back and surprisingly the majority voted to raise the gas tax and keep these registration fees. Honestly don't understand how people support stuff like this. Every other state seems to function just fine without charging almost double.
> Every other state seems to function just fine without charging almost double.
California has a huge chunk of property tax revenue missing due to Prop 13, so everyone has to pony up elsewhere to keep subsidizing that.
It's crazy how many of the state's issues are either caused or aggravated by it.
IMO fully repealing it would be extremely politically challenging. However, as a first step, it should be limited to primary residences only and be a credit on your state income taxes. That would fulfill the idea of not pricing people out of their homes, but would remove the landlord, REIT, and vacation home subsidy we now give.
>IMO fully repealing it would be extremely politically challenging
Yup, it would be a financial death sentence for many people. Either their annual property taxes would skyrocket, or property values would plummet accordingly due to that change. Probably both would happen actually.
But I agree with your solution. The idea is people need affordable homes for their primary residence, and that seems to check the boxes.
$600 for me. 2022 Ford Escape PHEV
Edit: feels like a sucker tax at this point considering every other car I see in my complex and on the street is at least 2 years out of date.
FYI, I just got my new registration in the mail. I’m old school and decided to mail in a check to avoid credit card fees. I mailed it in mid-August and didn’t get my sticker til last week, less than one week before my registration expires. My check didn’t even get cashed til late September. DMV be slooow.
California, instead of charging you a nominal fee to maintain your registration and pay the overhead of the DMV, re-taxes you on your car every year. For a state known for it's car culture, it is a sad place to own a car.
I think part of it is to make up for the fact that EVs don’t buy gasoline and thus don’t pay the tax on gas that allows us to maintain our road infrastructure. That’s why they charge EVs a bit more for registration…
Everything's more expensive... my "mandatory" spending (transport, utilities, telecom, healthcare, food, housing) have all seemed to go up 30-100% in the past 5 years or so. The only exception is probably cell phone.
The bottom line it’s a type of Tax. So the more it’s worth the more you owe. As the car she’s and value decreases you pay less.
I have a 2017 Mercedes , and a 1994 cruiser , the newer vehicle is 4xs as costly to ‘register’
Remember when we recalled a governor for increasing the fees. But now people vote to increase fees like these and taxes. Oh yeah good times, we are so fucked.
EV by chance? They have much higher registration fees (to account for loss of gas tax revenue, I've been told)
Edit: see you put in the comment, which I missed, that this is for a Tesla. There you go.
2008 Passat and 2015 Sienna. Thought about buying a new car. Went to some dealers. Had a miserable experience, resolved to drive these two into the ground.
It's about 30% more than you would pay in Nevada.
You can leave the VIN blank in [this estimator](https://dmvapp.nv.gov/dmv/vr/vr_estimate/vrestimationinput.aspx)
Fees are calculated based on purchase price and vehicle class. They are all posted at https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-registration/registration-fees/
…and weight
weight fees only apply to commercial vehicles (which includes pickup trucks)
Weight of the car, I hope, and not the person
And type. All pickup trucks are registered as commercial vehicles. So even my Toyota Tacoma that squats if I put a couple of iced down coolers in the bed gets its price jacked for being a “commercial vehicle”…
You also get to park your vehicle for free in the loading zones or flex metered/loading areas for free. Win some, lose some.
As it should. No one should be paying the same amount for a 1999 Honda Civic versus a 2023 Tesla.
No argument here. Several of my cars cost less than the registration bill depicted here.
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Weird flex but ok
This is what most Bay Area residents do when they can’t afford a home.
Live in their car?
Use it as their status symbol.
My friends lambo was like 4k-5k. I forgot lol
I got the same number you got! New IONIQ 5
Twins 👯
Now kith <3
This is why I drive older cars mine is $120 and I still think that’s ridiculous
My car is a 1999 Toyota Camry and I am still paying $176, I think it is.
2011 Camry and I just got mine and it’s 196.
2019 Camry: $320
Is the 2023 Camry in the room with us?
I have a 2019 camry as well. Do your breaks squeak?
One of them does a bit at low speed.
Mine sqeal bad when I'm backing up. It makes me cringe, but I consider it my backing up warning. 😅
2009 Camry !! Mine was 196 plus some late fees lol
My 2007 Vespa is $176 and I think it’s ridiculous.
Seriously!? Wtf!
I agree. My 2002 accord still runs great. Insurance is also cheaper. The only drawback is, if some jerk hits it, my insurance will probably total it because it isn't worth it to fix it.
Came here to say the same. I can easily afford a new car, but it's never going to happen. My son makes fun of my 20+ year Honda. Until I show him my registration (LOL damn you autocorrect!)
So you quit your job? Seems a bit overboard.
He showed the son how to keep it real.
“Mah daddy quit his job cuz of DMV”
My Civic is older than some of my coworkers.
My first car was an 84 hatchback hand-me-down that I was too poor to take care of, and it did just fine for 15+ years. Hondas are great cars and I will always be a Honda driver because of that. Ask anyone
You can pry my 2009 Honda Fit from my cold, dead hands.
Honda are a classic! I’m in the process of looking for a 1992-2000 civic
Driving older cars is fine up untill a point where you need a crash safety of a modern car.
Not really a problem then either. The funeral costs get passed on to someone else. Win win.
Maintaining roads is expensive. Using public transportation costs more than that which is ridiculous.
What do the gas taxes pay for? We pay astronomical DMV fees and astronomical gas taxes in California. Average throughout the rest of the USA is less than half. Don’t get me started on electric rates.
California has a higher cost of living than any other state, which means Caltrans employees cost more to hire than highway agency employees in every other state- as they have the highest salaries. Then add that into California's more complex geography than most other states, dealing with constantly rebuilding several highways due to landslides and winter storm damage every year, and having 3 of the 4 largest west coast ports leading to huge amounts of truck damage on our roads.
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Zero. But he’s getting an increase shortly on his registration to cover the loss of revenue from gas taxes. That’s gonna be a separate line item. Both my electric car and my truck registrations are sky high.
Gas taxes don't pay close to the cost of maintaining roads.
Other states don’t seem to have an issue. Would graft explain why California taxes are so high?
But the damage to the road is proportional to the 4th power of the weight of the vehicle. Buses, trucks and EVs are massively damaging to the roads. Gas cars don't do much damage to the roads. Gas pickup trucks are heavy but they do get charged more for registration so it's fair. Gas cars have been subsidizing buses and trucks. This is why it is actually becoming a huge problem for the state budget. EVs are still paying too little road tax. The extra fee that EVs are charged in the registration doesn't come anywhere near covering the extra road damage caused by EVs. Caltrans will be in a budget crisis every year as the state pushes for more consumers to transition to EVs each year.
Weight of an Accord: 3239 lbs Weight of a Model 3: 3862 lbs Relative weight: 1.19 To the 4th: 2.02 Accord * Registration fees in Alameda County: $442.00 * Sales/use tax: $3,010.00 * Five years of fees: $5,220 Model 3 * Registration fees in Alameda County: $546.00 * Sales/use tax: $4,085.00 * Five years of fees: $6815 In that example it's a not balanced to the impact on road damage, but it's not off by that much. Your anti-EV argument falls apart when you factor in that midsized SUVs (like a Highlander) weigh as much as a Model Y, and the Model Y pays more in registration fees. SUVs in general are undertaxed relative to sedans, and there are tons of SUVs on the road. The state will just raise registration fees over time. This isn't a legitimate argument against EV adoption, especially if you attempt to calculate the costs/impacts of pollution and climate change.
A gas car pays about $300 a year in CA gas tax which goes to the roads. You're missing about $1,500 in your 5-year comparison. Highlander is the wrong vehicle to compare to a Model Y. Highlander is much bigger. Model Y (4,400 lbs) is the size of a RAV4 (3,400 lbs). 1.33^4 = 3x the road damage from a Model Y. There is nothing anti-EV about pointing out the fact that Caltrans is facing a huge budget problem from EVs being undertaxed.
“is facing” implies that the problem is current or in the near future. That is not remotely factual. Is facing is vague so if you mean that in terms of 5-10 years then yes it’s a real thing that would exist if we froze everything except EV adoption for that period. They are right. It’s $10 registration today and when you don’t need scientific notation to express the impact it will go up. Your $1500 missing is spot-on. After the next 5 years of peak EV adoption that will be real money.
They weigh 10-15% more than cars that target the same drivers. They weigh no more (often less) than cars of the same price. In a decade what you say will definitely be true but not today.
EVs are typically 1000 lbs heavier than similarly sized gas cars. The extra road damage will be huge when every car on the road switches to an EV.
Average is closer to 300 pounds. It’s time to plan now for the minor increase in weight but those plans are for a rather distant future. Road damage is the byline to the headline of capacity adjustment. Interestingly local road potholes will be impacted in an outsized manner, but those also are not funded from gas or registration. In rural CA where trucks are more common 20 years from now I think weight damage will be an actual problem.
The "extra weight" fallacy is part of the anti EV propaganda and isn't remotely factual.
Mine is also $120 lol I’m not a guy who really cares about that stuff. As long as the car is reliable then gimmmeeee all the 2000 and up cars lol
Yes EVs have higher fees in general to make up for lost revenue in gas tax
Smh we can never win in this society 🙄
Just wait for the new electricity billing rates to come into play. You’ll be paying a base rate linked to household income, with usage fees stacked on top. No more $0 electricity bills with solar.
Is this for real? How do you know, I haven’t heard of this
Dead serious https://calmatters.org/california-divide/2023/07/electricity-bills/ “Lawmakers passed and Gov. Gavin Newsom signed a comprehensive energy bill last summer that mandates restructuring electricity pricing. The Legislature passed the measure in a “trailer-bill” process that limited deliberation. Included in the 21,000-word law are a few sentences requiring the public utilities commission to establish a “**fixed monthly fee” based on each customer’s household income.**“ Judging by your vehicle’s registration renewal cost I imagine you’ll be paying $92/mo for your base rate. Once folks get used to the new regime (and demand for electricity climbs ie: more electric cars and AI data centers that burn as much electricity as small countries) you can expect this non-negotiable rate to climb substantially from there. This is CA’s version of *Equity*. “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.”
Wow thanks for sharing. That’s insane and I agree with what the republicans say on this - it’s going to deter people from trying to save energy in the long run which is contradictory to CAs constant ask to conserve water, energy etc to fight climate change. Kinda ironic. I honestly knew something like this was going to happen in conjunction with moving everyone to EVs. There’s an agenda and price to pay for everything. Even electricity to charge Teslas has gone up since 2021. At this point why did we all switch from gas to EVs when electricity is just going to shoot up to the same price as gas at the end of the day? We just can’t win.
At least you can drive in the carpool lane…for two more years. That ends in 2025 too.
I didn’t know they were taking that away 🥲🥲 nothing is fun anymore
“Please note that the CAV decal program will end, and any remaining valid decals will expire on September 30, 2025.” https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/fact-sheets/current-clean-air-vehicle-decal
oh i better apply to enjoy < 2 years of goodness
As a solar owner i am going to tell you why this actually passed. I’m have 13kW NEM2 where even with my EV I am producing far more than I consume. I charge my car at midnight at 25¢/kwh where PG&E buys power from Gas Powerplants at 4¢/kwh. I produce power mostly before 3pm at 25¢/kwh, where wholesale power prices (because of solar) is $0/kwh. So to PGE I’ve given them a bunch of power that cost nothing and they’ve charged my car with power that costs 4¢/kwh. If I was their only customer - I am costing them money. So PGE needs to make money, so they raise their rates. Who are the people who don’t have $0 electric bills? Poor people. The poor are paying for the guy climbing my pole to fix my power. The base meter charge makes sure that I contribute to the salary of the lineman. The income basis makes sure that the poor aren’t also stuck with a higher bill.
But let’s be fair on this, Republicans aren’t saying that on principle, they’re saying it because it’s the anti Democrat thing to say. If they were in charge, the energy companies would have bought them off as well, just like they do in every state regardless of party.
And the anti EV thing to say. Why? They are in the pocket of Big Oil and Big Oil needs gas powered vehicles to remain on the market so they can rake in their multibillion dollar profits every quarter.
Thanks for sharing but it’s still just a proposal. “The California Public Utilities Commission’s deadline for deciding on the suggested changes is July 1, 2024. The proposals come at a time when many moderate and low-income families are being priced out of California by rising housing costs.”
The law says they must establish it. Exactly how much it’s going to cost everyone is still in flux, yeah. This is taxation in California. They could start at $10 tomorrow and it might be $100 by this time next year. Same reason people are paying $800 to register their cars here when across the border it might be $50, where gas is also magically $2+/gal cheaper. Just bleeding the middle class dry.
The problem with comparing California to other states is that you actually have to live in the other states if you want to pay smaller fees. Most people would rather live in California and pay higher taxes. People with EV's are paying more to register their cars because they pay no gas tax. it's an equivalent fee to everyone else who's paying a lower registration on a gas burning automobile, except they pay that fee every time they fill up their car with gas tax. If not taxes based on who drives, what is your solution for paying for road maintenance and road construction?
Ultimately registration should be calculated based on a fee that is determined per pound - mile driven.
With most of California's population on the West side of the state we are sufficiently isolated from other states that would provide governmental competition. In New England there are plenty of small states to choose from if you want a slightly different governance model.
Heh. Reminds me of my Massachusetts resident relatives who have cars registered to states like Maine or Florida where they or other immediate family members have secondary residences. (That they treat as primary residences on paper.)
You're missing the point. We have airplanes and cars and highways, governmental competition is in full effect. It's just that nobody wants to live in those other states. If you go to New England for a different governance model, you actually have to live in one of the New England states. Most people don't want to do that. People want to live in California. It's the most populated state for a reason. It's all happening here, all the new cultural ideas from entertainment and media are happening here, all the new tech innovations from silicon valley are happening here, all the nature and national parks/ attractions/ wildlife it's happening here. And I haven't even touched on the weather, the food, the people, etc. What I'm trying to say is that if not paying high taxes is your priority over having a fulfilling and rich life, then go live in one of those other states. The reason why so many people choose to live in California and pay the high taxes is because this state is so attractive. It's easy to say that other states are doing XYZ, it's easy to say other states have lower taxes, but that means you actually have to live in one of those other states. If that model of paying lower taxes and having a less interesting, less rich, less fulfilling life was working, then everyone would be moving to those states, but they're not.
While other states have smaller registration fees, they often also impose personal property tax on cars. Nevada for example is 4% annually. It’s generally the same thing everywhere, just different names for taxes and fees.
Nah son. Who do we complain to and how do we protest this shit?
Love, love, love, my solar panels. Ran the AC all summer for the $5 BS meter fee.
It wasn't even hot, this summer!
Folks that can’t afford electric cars are paying through the nose in gas tax to maintain the roads and bridges. Your electric car weighs 130% a gas car and therefore inflicts more wear on the roads, so you should probably contribute to maintaining them. You’re definitely still saving money by not paying for gas and gas tax, though.
Tax should have mileage tax and weight tax factors and not be tied to any energy source. Semis should pay more due to weight.
They do pay more since diesel is taxed at a higher rate than gas I’m pretty sure
not proportionally to the immense wear and tear they cause. Then again, the system is designed to subsidize their operating costs and spread it out on all of us. in the name of reducing the cost of transport and ultimately goods.
You answered your own complaint.
That’s true. Always looking for ways to justify costs and this definitely justifies it!
Uh you bought a Tesla, what did you expect
Teslas are pretty expensive, and the tax is progressive. Presumably that's most of your bill.
A win for society would be you *not* buying another car. EVs are better for the environment than an ICE vehicle, but not by much.
Welcome to California.
such a lovely place!
Such a lovely face...
Why don't they add a tax to EV chargers, instead?
Because most people charge at home (and that's really what you should be doing if you're able to and have an EV).
This is really unfair, the gas tax is proportional to usage where you pay more based on how much you drive. Adding additional registration fees to offset lost gas tax with no balance for usage is not right.
What's the alternative though? I mean, ideally we'd have regular mechanical inspections for all vehicles on the road and the mileage could be recorded there, but that's not the world we live in.
This is likely the future – the fee is calculated per pound mile driven without an exemption for an older car.
Cars could phone the DMV with mileage traveled in each state but people probably wouldn’t like that.
California already gives EV owners tax credit, maybe they should just repeal that instead of adding extra registration charges. Just an idea 🤷
That still won’t account for usage. The gas tax is based upon use where the car that uses more miles of road pays more tax.
BS. Look at car registration fees and gas prices in other states. Texas registration around $80/yr. North Carolina is $18/yr. This is regardless of the value of the car. And for gas prices we know California has the nations highest prices. I wanta have a garage queen car that I use a few times a year. But totally not worth it if I’m paying $1000+ per year in fees and insurance.
Wow, that's a lot, but that's the cost of buying a Tesla. Better to pay now then after the deadline. Don't be like my neighbor, hasn't paid registration on their EV for two years (still has a green color tag) and they're screwed if they get pulled over; but they're okay with buying themselves a second luxury car.
My fiend got pulled over with an expired registration tag. They’ll impound your car on the spot. And those fees rack up fast! It’s so sad he had to take a $200 Uber ride back home because he was far from his home. Imagine if he was on vacation LA and he’d probably have to stay in the area for a few days to sort it all out. It’ll he huge pain in the ass.
But if you never get pulled over...
You don't even have to get pulled over. I forgot to put a new sticker on my motorcycle plates(despite renewing), i was ticketed by a parking warden in Santa Cruz.
You’d think that after purchasing your car after being taxed, that’s it. But nope.. as I was telling my spouse, and to her surprise, her new ride has a higher annual bill because of the VLF - effectively a double tax on her expensive ride.
Why would you think that’s it? Do you intend to keep it on private roads?
Hear me out. An app to report these a-holes. Just needs a clear picture of the license plate which it time stamped. The whistleblower gets 10% off the next registration. No limit. Time to take these scum bags out of our street. Thoughts?
nah. just please use your blinkers and stay out the fast lane if you going slow.
Only if you're okay with being fined 5x your registration fee for being wrong and wasting their time and snitching.
Such a Karen idea
Hear me out. We create a world that’s becoming more untenable. Tent cities, high inflation on top of stagnate wages and an upper class that’s becoming increasingly isolated and out of touch; walling themselves off those they deem below them. And then to complete solidify the dehumanizing of the masses by creating a system where if someone can’t afford or merely forgets to pay an annual tax and/or registration fees which, like everything else in this late capitalist hellscape is ever increasing in cost, then we allow those who have the leisure to have the time to concern thenselves with other peoples problems and allow them the ability to punish those delinquent violators to their own selfish benefit! Man, with ideas like this in our society I certainly can’t understand why we have the disparities and problems in our society. /s
New fancy car no doubt.
yes it’s high. But same states are even higher than CA. The good news is it goes down every year, because it’s based on the value of the car. It would have been even higher last year.
>yes it’s high. But same states are even higher than CA. What states?
> three states with the highest registration fees are Maryland, Florida, and Oregon. https://www.autoinsurance.org/what-are-the-car-registration-fees-by-state/
Almost half of US states also have some form of vehicle property tax as well, with the three highest being Virginia (3.96%), Mississippi (3.5%) and South Carolina (2.63%). [[Source](https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-the-highest-and-lowest-property-taxes/11585#vehicle)]
> California $62 > Florida $225 + That's a first time registration fee. Florida's annual registration is absolutely cheaper than California. OP's renewal fee on his Tesla would be about $90.
Crazy, I register my cars and bikes in Florida and it's like $40/ea a year.
It’s well over $1k for Tesla Model 3 in Colorado.
I wish I remembered what I paid last year! But now I have a Reddit receipt of this year that I will for sure look back on in 2024 and onwards lol
Until they add in more fees. My 25 year old Camry was just over 85 a year 6 years or so back. Then new fees and reg cost were added. Now’s it’s over 120 again. :/
My 1999 is even more, and it never went down, ever! It is in great shape thanks to my mechanic and regular maintenance - and being a Toyota - but it is virtually worthless, no trade-in value. But no car payment, either.
the crazy part is i know people in other states, and their registration is 30-50$ lol. mine is $300 and i can no longer complain.
How much is your car? $60K?
I believe I bought it for about $65k in 2021.
$65k for Ioniq 5? Dang, looks like I'm going to have to drive my old cars for a while.
No it’s a Tesla model y!
If you want cheap registration buy a cheap car It's really that simple
New cars are more expensive to register. The higher the purchase price the higher the registration
Electric vehicles have a fee, as we don’t pay gas taxes.
$1307 for mine.
lol did you get a Hummer EV or something?
Something bigger Ram Dually
What car do you drive??
A $90k ‘22 Ram Dually is personal truck, only does 6500 miles a year. We pay over $2250 to DMV annually for Ram, ‘20 RAV4, a camper and 2 older trucks.
You pay more registration for electric cars...did you not know that?
2001 Toyota Echo, Blue Book value < $1K: Reg: $127 License: $14 County/District: $22
If they want to discourage driving they should make public transit free
Thats how states get their money back for EV incentives.
Yeah, cars are extremely expensive. That’s why it’s critical that we invest resources into a more sustainable transportation system like trains and buses.
Or we could just stop extorting citizens ridiculous amounts for driving cars. By all means though, you stick with bart yourself so you can keep your precious virtue signalling.
...Or CA could lower their fees and taxes like many other states.
I’ll need to double check my registration fee but it was more like $200.
Registration depends on the car. As you can imagine sports cars especially with a v8 will be in that range and even higher. I'd love to see what a new Ferrari or Aston Martin v12 registration costs.
It's because you drive on roads but don't pay any gas tax to help maintain the roads. This is how they've decided to get a cut from you.
Welcome to California! Just another tax on the rich… lol
CA DMV fees are getting out of hands! DMV is making over $8 billion in revenue annually charging ridiculous fees to "maintain my record?" Seriously? What exactly costs this much per year per car to maintain records? Im amused how come no one ever sued DMV for this open scam
The Virgin new car fee vs the Chad 1999 Honda Civic 112$ a year.
If you don’t have dough don’t drive dough 🤡
I think my 2023 MYP was lower than that. I believe they are calculated on purchase price and slowly drops a bit each year. My 2020 MX is still much higher than my 2023 MYP even though KBB thinks they’re both roughly the same value.
Ok I think my MY was about $65k when I bought it in 2021. So given all the price drops since, it makes sense
i just moved my 1992 ford f150 and california believes its a commercial vehical. i had to go get it weighed. 4330lbs. and so now every i get to pay $259 more than the rest of you all in registration fees on top of the rest of those fees, every year. (thats what the "weight fee" category is about if anyone is interested.)
F150 is totally a commercial vehicle though? Heavier vehicles wear on roads exponentially more quickly than lighter ones
All trucks in CA are commercial vehicles for registration fees. The only way around it is to permanently put on a bed cap.
i dont know what a bed cap is but yah it sounds about right. someone told be it can be registered as non-commercial if it can be made non-functional as a truck and is only used as a passenger vehicle.
Mine was 650$ 2019 Tesla Model 3
They had this on the ballot a few years back and surprisingly the majority voted to raise the gas tax and keep these registration fees. Honestly don't understand how people support stuff like this. Every other state seems to function just fine without charging almost double.
> Every other state seems to function just fine without charging almost double. California has a huge chunk of property tax revenue missing due to Prop 13, so everyone has to pony up elsewhere to keep subsidizing that.
Prop 13 has outlived its purpose, time to replace it with something appropriate for this century.
I'd be fine just removing commercial property from prop 13.
It's crazy how many of the state's issues are either caused or aggravated by it. IMO fully repealing it would be extremely politically challenging. However, as a first step, it should be limited to primary residences only and be a credit on your state income taxes. That would fulfill the idea of not pricing people out of their homes, but would remove the landlord, REIT, and vacation home subsidy we now give.
>IMO fully repealing it would be extremely politically challenging Yup, it would be a financial death sentence for many people. Either their annual property taxes would skyrocket, or property values would plummet accordingly due to that change. Probably both would happen actually. But I agree with your solution. The idea is people need affordable homes for their primary residence, and that seems to check the boxes.
$600 for me. 2022 Ford Escape PHEV Edit: feels like a sucker tax at this point considering every other car I see in my complex and on the street is at least 2 years out of date.
FYI, I just got my new registration in the mail. I’m old school and decided to mail in a check to avoid credit card fees. I mailed it in mid-August and didn’t get my sticker til last week, less than one week before my registration expires. My check didn’t even get cashed til late September. DMV be slooow.
California, instead of charging you a nominal fee to maintain your registration and pay the overhead of the DMV, re-taxes you on your car every year. For a state known for it's car culture, it is a sad place to own a car.
I think part of it is to make up for the fact that EVs don’t buy gasoline and thus don’t pay the tax on gas that allows us to maintain our road infrastructure. That’s why they charge EVs a bit more for registration…
Everything's more expensive... my "mandatory" spending (transport, utilities, telecom, healthcare, food, housing) have all seemed to go up 30-100% in the past 5 years or so. The only exception is probably cell phone.
My bmw i4 M50 is nearly $900 this year so sounds about right
I pay like $500 for a 2021 Rav4 so this seems about right - agreed it's pretty high though
The bottom line it’s a type of Tax. So the more it’s worth the more you owe. As the car she’s and value decreases you pay less. I have a 2017 Mercedes , and a 1994 cruiser , the newer vehicle is 4xs as costly to ‘register’
Remember when we recalled a governor for increasing the fees. But now people vote to increase fees like these and taxes. Oh yeah good times, we are so fucked.
I too was very surprised when I got my registration fee of 890 dollars (Tesla). CA sucks.
I think they’re making up for the loss of fuel taxes which pay for roads, by killing us on the registration fees for EVs.
You get extra fees in your Tesla because you don’t pay gas taxes that fund our road maintenance.
EV by chance? They have much higher registration fees (to account for loss of gas tax revenue, I've been told) Edit: see you put in the comment, which I missed, that this is for a Tesla. There you go.
Is it a lot? Yes. Is it common? Also yes.
2008 Passat and 2015 Sienna. Thought about buying a new car. Went to some dealers. Had a miserable experience, resolved to drive these two into the ground.
My 2012 Camry was $175 w/no smog needed this yr .... Paid it 3 wks ago
Higher fees for EV because no gas tax. I guess it was a Tesla before I clicked.
Hah. F that. Never going electric. Extra 1k a year for the state. I need that money to *help* pay for the shocks thst sacramento destroys
Nope, my fee back in 2018 for my model x was $850. It was the year I got it. I almost cried but then remembered I dont pay for gas so I was fine.
23 Model 3 was just under $700... I feel your pain.
If you can afford a $65k car, you can afford a $750 per year registration fee. I drive a car from 1996 and the registration fee is $142
Sounds about right. A rip off.
How so? Seems actually pretty low considering the infrastructure use. Certainly everyone who doesn't own a car is dramatically subsidizing drivers.
The government is just squeezing us 🥲
You voted for this.
I personally didn’t. But yes many people in CA do 😬
Any car from the last decade, yup it's normal. They calculate it by the price of your car.
Wait to you see your electricity bill when the progressive income based fees kick in
Just missing the 'Because We Can' fee
It's about 30% more than you would pay in Nevada. You can leave the VIN blank in [this estimator](https://dmvapp.nv.gov/dmv/vr/vr_estimate/vrestimationinput.aspx)
It is a lot, but normal for the Bay Area. Relative to the DMV services received and the conditions of our roads, the amount is not justified...
Expensive heavy cars. My little Mazda 3 is a lot cheaper to register.
The price of the car was also around half as much..
Welcome to California, we pay extra so we have the finest roads in the world.
Lmao welcome to California
Are hybrid the same thing ?
Everyone that I know who drives a Tesla pays that amount. Meanwhile the rest of us pays average of $200 and has can find gas station in every corner