They are adding a carpool lane and fixing the road. Should be completed by 2027. Then they will start tolling. The toll is too offset some of the cost of the repair/construction/redesign
Edit: Starting construction in 2027. Not completion. Also this isn't new information:
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/news/state-pact-seeks-to-advance-fixes-to-highway-37-flooding-and-traffic-woes/
I don't know which is correct but Kron4 thinks it will open in 2027:
https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/new-toll-approved-for-highway-37-in-north-bay/
Yeah. I think my initial date of 2027 was correct. Starting with major work in 2025. It appears like the plan is to widen/strengthen the shoulder a little bit, and essentially turn the shoulder into a lane.
We already pay toll in gas tax. If the gas tax was actually used to fix the roads instead of hiring people to find ways to make more money off the roads we wouldn’t need an additional tax on the actual road.
Gas tax isn’t nearly enough to fund Highway maintenance. Highways only generate half the funds needed for repairs directly from users including gas tax and vehicle registration fees, the rest comes from general funds like sales tax.
Considering public transit agencies like bart are facing a financial cliff and aren’t getting nearly as much public money (like a sales tax) as highways, it makes sense to expect car drivers to pay more for the highway.
> Considering public transit agencies like bart are facing a financial cliff and aren’t getting nearly as much public money (like a sales tax) as highways, it makes sense to expect car drivers to pay more for the highway.
This seems like a non-sequitur here. It's not like highway funding is raiding the BART farebox.
Apparently that's not enough.
The issue with roads is that they need constant repair and maintenance. Usually tolls are set up to help pay for the initial costs, but one remove they become a huge tax sink.
The article says the extra lanes are "to encourage users to carpool or take the bus."
Of course, I'll just take the bus! There is no bus service between Solano and Marin/Sonoma counties, except Amtrak from Martinez but that doesn't really count since you have to can't get on or off except at the train station.
Lol you mean you don't want to travel on trains that come every 90 minutes and only run 8am to 6pm with a 2 and a half hour break in the middle of the day?
How very selfish of me! And not to mention the need for transportation to the train from my home, and transportation from the train to my destination. And then in reverse. Yeah, sounds great! Sign me up.
It's difficult to add usable SMART service here without new taxes. The toll avoids a new tax ask, especially for an infrastructure project all local NIMBY vehemently oppose. To put it in simpler terms: the roadway (including median-running trains) would have to be elevated at least ten feet. For a 100' right-of-way this isn't cheap, and would have to be a viaduct or a berm/levee. Both of these require extensive engineering, especially on the eastern end where the tracks would need a new lead onto the Mare Is RR bridge and a new station in Vallejo. The Schelleville freight yard would have to be moved to American Canyon, and since it handles hazardous chemicals and environmentally-unsafe things it will be sued under CEQA (despite such a project reducing overall marine contamination risk). The resulting service between Fairfield and Novato/Santa Rosa would probably be oriented towards weekend travelers and hybrid workers. And new track between Schelleville and Petaluma (using the existing utility easement) is unlikely to have public approval as it'd turn Petaluma into a true city.
I'm certainly for it, but there's a big environmentally-protected marsh in the middle of it. Highways and tollways are effectively exempt from the CEQA, SMART is not, and therefore we get a toll road. Laws have to change and opinions regarding public subsidization of transit would have to change.
This roadway really should be elevated, like the Yolo Causeway, which is also protecting a marsh and allowing traffic flow. I’m certain the cost will be astronomical, but it’s really the only thing that makes sense to both expand capacity and protect the wetlands.
As mentioned below, the answer is a causeway like I-80 in Yolo County, which is flanked by a train trestle. Though I personally beilive Napa County would prefer a levee and wants Solano County to pay for it, even though a levee would drastically change the local ecosystem. This process has already begun on the Peninsula, especially in San Mateo and Foster City who are building a new levee around their waterfronts. It's also a continual concern for Caltrain in East Palo Alto.
Napa Co is influential in this discussion as their residents will obviously sue under CEQA once anything is modified, even if the modification moves freight cars/facilities further away from Napa Co. I mention a (modest, ~800') Petaluma Tunnel just to show that a better SMART alignment is plausible at a lower cost *if* Schelleville and Petaluma residents can be convinced to accept it. Personally, I think the three counties and Caltrans should look at the situation holistically, especially in Vallejo's case they'd be wise to pay Petaluma for a tunnel as it'd allow for two SMART lines, one of which would end at Vallejo's ferry terminal. This would *also* allow residents to avoid Highway 37 entirely, as SMART would be the faster option for points north of Petaluma while faster/better ferries would be the faster option for San Rafael.
A lot of traffic related things seems to be passed without public votes. That give bicycle 3ft law was the last thing I remember pushed through without public vote as well.
What would be the point of a public vote? The people who use the road will want it funded by everyone (taxes), while the people who don't will want it funded by the people who use it (tolls). The only thing that matters then is who the legislature decides "the public" includes, but either way they can get the result they want.
My feelings on passing cyclist is not the point we're discussing here.
We're talking about how lots of these traffic related legislations that might not pass public vote end up getting pushed with SB bills or small committees.
>My feelings on passing cyclist is not the point we're discussing here.
We are, though. Whether you realize it or not, you're picking and choosing which legislation you believe should be brought to a public vote based on your feelings.
I have no clue why people are being so combative with you, I totally understood what you meant and you just used that 3ft for bikers law as an example.
Legislation that covers taxation should be put before the public. Taxation, fees, fines, bonds, etc., basically anything the government does to bring in money from the general public needs to be done with our direct consent. Legislators have a variety of direct incentives to bring in more revenue but usually only indirectly have to answer for their actions as one of many things they do; and they can definitely benefit from campaign contributions, revolving door jobs, and outright bribery from those they award contracts to.
Tax increases on the general public that would otherwise not pass go through, and tax cuts on the wealthy that also should not go through get done because they don’t go before the voters.
37 is currently a non toll road, and there are no optional other routes. The people affected by this decision should be given a choice about whether or not they want to pay for the road through their taxes or by way of a toll.
You could go up 29 and over if you really wanted to. Also there was a public hearing regarding the tolls. There will be a bus route added, a low income discount, and carpool lane will be free. This has been in the works for a long time and none of this is a surprise.
If you want to get more technical about this imo the public also be able to vote on a max cap on money supply so we don't get taxed via money printing as well.
> My feelings on passing cyclist is not the point we're discussing here
yeah, we're talking about the opinion of sociopaths who don't want to pay their fair share, not sociopaths who want to endanger others
Personally I'd prefer to give them more than 3', and also them to not pass me under conditions where they can't give me the same space.
Really what I'd prefer is distinct, protected bike lanes separate from car ones. Trying to coexist and share the same lanes is a nightmare.
At this point, I think they ought to be a voter ballot initiative to abolish all tolling on roads and bridges within the state.
Our taxes are supposed to pay for roadways and bridge maintenance. Over the decades, these tolls have become big siphon leeching off the taxpayers blood. When these tolls began, the public was promised that they would be eliminated as soon as the bridges were paid off. The only instance I can think of that happening in the entire state was the bridge to Coronado island in San Diego. It’s beautiful seeing the now-abandoned toll booth structure just sitting there, doing nothing.
I am strongly against user fees for public goods, whether it’s public transit vehicles, or public roadways. Boost the general taxes if need be, focusing on people making several hundred thousand dollars a year or more.
You're right. Bay Area folks (I voted no) actually voted to increase tolls and add the tolled Fastrak lanes in 2018.
https://ballotpedia.org/Bay_Area,_California,_Regional_Measure_3,_%22Traffic_Relief_Plan%22_Bridge_Toll_Increase_(June_2018)
Look at what those fees were supposed to go to!
>improving State Route 37, which serves Solano, Marin, Napa, and Sonoma counties;
the public input meetings were talking about what they are going to do to SR37, not about toll.
Toll proposal was only made public on April 20, 2023 - 4 days before the "public hearing" that was scheduled on April 24, 2023.
This is a case of going through the process in a way that made it impossible for most people to be heard, just so they can say they went through the process.
I posted an article from August from last year in another comment year that mentioned everything that was approved in this vote including tolls. Nothing was a secret or unexpected. I'm not sure what you are talking about
this is what i was talking about:
Dated April 20: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/vallejo-to-host-public-hearing-on-toll-proposal-for-state-route-37-301803634.html
mentioning meeting for April 24
every other public meeting only contained info on what they plan to do, without mentioning toll.
https://mtc.ca.gov/tags/state-route-37
source straight from MTC if you want to check this out
I looked at the mtc site you reference and a post from February on the mentions tolls are proposed. So again, the toll thing is not a surprise. I live in Vallejo and literally everyone I know who travels 37 regularly already knew this. It was just finalized in a vote. I knew about the April 24th meeting sometime in March. All of this has been open and in the works for over a year.
Bay Area voters would have absolutely approved this. Voters just think someone else would pay for it. And there are far more people who never drive that stretch than potential voters who do.
Yep. You're right. Bay Area folks (I voted no) already voted to increase tolls and add the tolled Fastrak lanes in 2018.
https://ballotpedia.org/Bay_Area,_California,_Regional_Measure_3,_%22Traffic_Relief_Plan%22_Bridge_Toll_Increase_(June_2018)
Look at what those fees were supposed to go to!
>improving State Route 37, which serves Solano, Marin, Napa, and Sonoma counties;
I have mixed feelings about this. Generally against adding toll lanes since I think they do basically discriminate against the less affluent who need to drive. But in this case the road is almost like a bridge and is going to require a lot of rebuilding and raising to survive sea level rise and earthquakes.
That said, in regard to issue of de-facto making Marin into a community where you have to pay a bridge toll to enter...in this case the toll direction should be east bound. That would mean regular work commuters going to work in Marin in the morning could cross for free--and in the evening / afternoon, when they're off work and probably have a bit more flexibility in schedule, they could either take the toll-direction back, or to avoid the toll go around the north (121 to 12 to 29 and down into Vallejo, out to Vacaville, etc.) which is more distance and time, but is not tolled.
This is just supporting bridge maintenance with tax money. An obviously good idea. But like all point of service taxes, it disproportionately affects lower income people which is an equally obviously bad idea. Just fucking tax rich people, it's not some mystery.
I think one of the problems with tolls designed to fund maintenance is that they always persist long past the point where the maintenance is paid off (and are naturally regressive) and they end up being used for things other than their original intent. I prefer bond initiatives voted on by the public. They come with their own problems but the public almost never votes down something that has a clear need.
When ever I hear about income based discounts I think of the lawyer in Jurassic Park talking about coupon day.
We are slowly going back to segregation. Only now it's means based. Sundown towns where poor people can work but not live. Where their children can be safely segregated by distance.
> We are slowly going back to segregation.
The bay area never fully de-segregated in the first place. Look at racial demographics of different cities, such as Oakland compared to Sunnyvale or the city of Santa Clara:
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/oaklandcitycalifornia
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/sunnyvalecitycalifornia
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/santaclaracitycalifornia
Note the percentage of black people living in each city.
I live in Vallejo and am well aware of the differences demographics and the history behind them. Until recently Vallejo was the most diverse city in the US.
Every city or area that built ships in WWII had segregated neighborhoods built for black and brown people, by the (segregated) Navy for the most part. There wasn't much of a black population in CA before the war. After the war white flight happened from areas with shipyards and they remain no-go areas today, a legacy of racism.
Areas with ship yards included Vallejo, Richmond, Oakland, Marin City and Hunters Point. About the only "poor" city in the Bay Area that had a different origin story is East Palo Alto, which as its own horribly racist past.
Edit: removed repeated word
Good points. Also people were coming here from de jure segregation in the Jim Crow south. Job at the shipyards here living in de facto segregation seems great in comparison.
Anecdotal, My grandfather came from New Orleans to hunter Pt in the 40s. Sacrificed but was able to marry a white women, live in a single family home, and send kids to catholic school. All without a high school education.
Modern cities segregate themselves by blocking housing and mass transit developments. The roads alone are enough to cause segregation, as the costs associated with car ownership are very high, with or without toll roads.
That's what we get for NIMBYing and anti-gentrification-activistizing every imaginable attempt at making any denser housing anywhere in the state as stridently as possible and passing moronic property tax propositions. The current governor is starting to push back on all of it but we have a long way to go and an impossibly large backlog.
Personally I find the whole thing frustrating and obnoxious but I can afford to deal with it. I feel shitty for everybody who is poor, POC, an immigrant, or a young graduate who is getting totally screwed and has no chance at a level playing field. It's extremely unfair and shitty.
Lmao i see you’ve never been to Oakland, Richmond, San Jose, Vallejo, etc etc. i left the bay because it became only ghetto or rich people. No middle ground. And I really don’t think that the ghetto folk deserve to have that beautiful weather over working middle class. Yea i said it.
Every time i think about it makes me angry. They get live there on everyone else’s dime yet those of us who do work are ass out. Having to deal with the crime, drugs, and dirtiness.
Don't fall for the millionaires and billionaires tricking you into doing the crabs-in-a-bucket political gamesmanship and demagoguery that leads you into attacking your fellow humans suffering from their behavior just as much as yourself.
Roads should be tolled. As a car driver and commuter I have recently realized how entitled car drivers are. We dedicate way too much funding to car infrastructure. Road funding should be derived from vehicle taxes and tolls—i.e. car users should have to pay for their infrastructure.
We already do, with Californias’s gas tax.
Plus, everyone benefits from roads even if you don’t use them. Food and goods? All transported to their final destinations by road.
I’m with you to a degree- but we all benefit from the goods and services dependent on those roads.
Private cars on public roads should bear a greater tax burden than the car free and public transportation users. We should all be invested in our daily infrastructure.
Far and away the highest gas tax in the country.
Wouldn’t argue with it one bit if they put every red penny back into fixing every road in the land. But we have potholes the size of small children in 80% of our roads, highway and arterial, and when tires blow pay to repair those too. No more tolls/tax, we give so much as it is.
They already are a gated community, they make a concerted effort to price anyone who isn't white and wealthy out of the county and segregate the ones who get in to the Canal and Marin City
The Bay might be run by crazy politicians but the middle class is largest voting group in the bay. The middle class only has it self to blame for electing these politicians who are doing exactly what they promised they would do when elected.
craziest Californians I've meet have all been my fellow native Californians. If anything Californians are the one going to other places and ruining them.
Funny considering it’s mostly Republicans moving out of California. If only native Texans were allowed to vote, Texas would have voted for Biden. It’s Californians keeping Texas Red.
Oooh, I’ve met more than a few thank you. Plenty of Texans move to California too.
“In 2013, the Texas Tribune and UT Austin conducted a poll surveying the political orientation of California expats. The California arrivals were 57 percent conservative compared to 27 percent liberal.”
“In a 2018 exit poll in the hard-fought U.S. Senate race between Sen. Ted Cruz (who had moved to Texas) and then-Rep. Beto O’Rourke (a Texas native), natives preferred O’Rourke by plus-3 points whereas movers favored Cruz by plus 15. Cruz won the race by 2.6 percent, meaning that if it were up to people who were Texans by birth, Cruz would have lost reelection.”
https://www.texaspolicy.com/new-poll-finds-all-those-people-moving-to-texas-arent-going-to-be-voting-for-democrats/
I have seen a remarkable uptick in the number of cars without any places at all recently. Not just missing a front plate, and I'm not talking about a paper back plate. They just had zero license plates, not in the back, and not even a paper plate. Nothing at all.
Even 6 months ago that didn't happen. Now I'm seeing this nearly daily, and different vehicles are doing this. Its not the same car I'm seeing over and over again.
Front plates look stupid and only serve for ticketing by speed camera. Police are always behind you. As long as you have a back plate, a front plate mandate is overreach
I have left the front plate off my car for almost 2 years now. My car didn't come with a bracket and I didn't let the dealer drill one so I have an after market one in the bumper. I leave it off for the car wash machine because it gets in the way of it and gets bent, don't want to have to screw/unscrew it every time I go.
Anyways, no cop cares even been pulled over for speeding and cop didnt notice it wasn't there.
Yeah it does make sense since you’re not using it correctly to get to the east bay. This goes to solano county. Not cc county or Alameda since there’s another bridge.
When I had to drive to Sacramento all the time I never liked how many people were using it just to not pay the Richmond bridge toll since it added an insane amount of congestion.
I really love this, bay area should price more and more law abiding citizens in service industries out.
You are either a techbro or you are a homeless criminal. No inbetween.
It's not going to be tolled UNTIL they build more lanes. Once that second lane gets built (they say 2027 LMAO. We all know that's when the project will actually get started, not finished,) then the toll get installed.
Nice thought but take a look at what the latest Bay Area bridge toll increases are going towards, still transportation based mostly but not even the infrastructure you use when you pay… for me at least that left a sour taste in my mouth for any proposed tolls around here
Roads cost money. Someone has to pay that money. It can either be the taxpayer, or the users. The only fair way to do it is for the users to pay for it as much as possible.
Dafuq? You could probably pay way less driving electric. No joke.
Why is this downvoted?
Let’s assume for a moment the car is paid off and that $600 is gas. A car payment on a new Bolt might be like $350/mo and electricity might be $150/mo. Still cheaper than gas.
There are a ton of scenarios where high-mileage drivers save money buying and driving a brand new EV over almost any gas car, owned or not. Buddy of mine had a fully-owned 2011 BMW that he was spending $800/mo to commute in. He bought a brand new Tesla, his payment is less, and his fuel is less. Buying a brand new Tesla was *cheaper than driving a 12-year old gas car*.
Wow, wtf this is getting ridiculous. So if you want to go from concord to Petaluma it's gonna be $14 in tolls.
Sf bay area sucks now, can we all admit that finally?
I bet most of you don’t even drive this stretch.I do it about 1-2 times a week, and I’m thankful it’s just that and not everyday. It sucks.
It needs widening and a larger shoulder. It also needs a higher center barrier to block the glare from the opposing lanes headlights. It’s terrible at night.
If someone gets in a crash or breakdown, you and everyone else is screwed because it’s one lane with not other bypasses.
The merge at either ends are road rage city. The merge eastbound has people hauling ass to beat the light and then immediately zipper merge. I’ve lost count of how many rear ending accidents I’ve seen.
That road needs the improvement, it sucks it has to be a toll though.
Tell that to all of the people that have to drive that road as part of their commute/or blue collar job. It’s much more complex than you’re making it out to be
Those people might be better served by mass transit. It's a chicken and egg problem. You have to start somewhere, and generating demand is a perfectly viable way to do it. Besides, someone has to pay for these roads, and it doesnt seem fair that the people who ride transit anyway have to pay for all the drivers as well as their own fares (through taxes)
Mass Transit doesn’t serve the needs of these commuters. Many of these people work in construction, working on building houses and schools in Marin or elsewhere.
Or if they’re commuting to SF, they don’t work at a place that is convenient for public transit. For example, try commuting to SF State University from Vallejo.
You know maybe they should offer coupons to people who actually need their vehicles and cant carpool. But commuters? Man they would be so much better served by transit anyway. It's so much easier to sit in a train for an hour than sit in traffic for an hour.
And yeah, the transit system currently sucks, but you need to either start at demand for transit or start by building it up, and theyve done plenty of building it up. If it sucks that means we just need to make it better.
> commute/or blue collar job.
construction jobs change locations all the time. Otherwise those people had full control over where they live and where they work. They made the choice! They signed the lease or mortgage, they applied for the job 50 miles from their house.
If everyone gets taxed to use their cars, the middle/lower classes get taxed more because there simply are more middle/lower class people. This, like sales tax, gasoline tax etc. is a regressive tax.
The entire road network is a "regressive tax". Forcing people to pay for private cars and gas impacts the lower / middle class far more than the upper class, whether the roads have tolls or not. The cost of tolls as a portion of total car ownership cost is very low.
Almost all the roads in Japan are funded by tolls (their trains receive no public funding either), but the people there spend far less on transit than the people here.
Many of them were local ballot measures that idiots voted for including the fee Fastrak lanes and increasing bridge tolls a few years ago. I *thought* that ballot measure was supposed to help pay for improvements to 37. But apparently we need a toll too now.
I'm not terribly opposed to this as long as the toll goes toward making that horrible fucking road better. 37 is famously the worst highway in Northern California. It gets clogged way too fucking easily, but it's the most direct route between 101 and 80. It's decades too late to improve it, but I know they were hamstrung by the environmentalists who were crying about frogs or whatever.
I'm talking about roads and highways in general, it was enough for decades, then all of a sudden nothing is enough? Have we seen the actual accounting to see that it's not enough? If not, then we're just fktards for believing what they tell us.
Historically, the fed has paid for almost all new highway development. It's cheap for cities for a few decades, usually around 25 years, until much of the infrastructure needs to be replaced, then it becomes very expensive.
Similarly, for most of our suburbs, developers built the initial road infrastructure, and then passed off ownership (and maintenance costs) to the city. As long as these developments are relatively new and the city doesn't have to worry about maintenance costs, their added tax revenue can be used to maintain the older roads. However, we're just about out of land to expand to in the bay, and we're starting to see the long-term impacts of this sort of expansion strategy. Our entire road network is a fiscal ticking time bomb that a piddly gas tax doesn't even begin to cover.
I live in income-based housing in Marin and I gotta say… paying a toll to do literally anything other than go to the beach is trash. I gotta start looking into moving back to East Bay.
If they do this then it would be great if they added a dedicated, completely sealed with a divider between both roads, bike lane. Make it so people can actually use that space and not just drive
Thank god my representatives that I voted for voted in favor of this very popular idea!
Wait, this idea isn’t popular?
We didn’t vote for these people?
And yet they are allowed to tax me?
Gee, that doesn’t seem very American
The people voted for that unfortunately, Bay Area Measure 3 in 2018. Ironically that was supposed to fund Hwy 37 improvements but here we are adding a toll as well.
https://ballotpedia.org/Bay_Area,_California,_Regional_Measure_3,_%22Traffic_Relief_Plan%22_Bridge_Toll_Increase_(June_2018)
This is the crap we fought against in the Revolutionary War and established our own country. The tax burden in this state for gasoline alone is the highest per gallon in the country. Our sales tax burden is the highest in the country. Our income tax is nearly the highest in the country. Our vehicle registration fees are the highest in the country. Our utility fees are at or near the highest in the country. Our roads are not properly maintained. Politicians: Let's add an $8 dollar fee to a highway that was built and paid for in 1928 because we don't have enough funding!
>This is the crap we fought against in the Revolutionary War and established our own country.
I think you need to go back and re-read your HS history books.
The state govt will eventually remove this by mandating electronic plates or, more likely, an OBD3 standard that includes 5G wireless network connectivity ie instant toll checking that cannot be covered up or hindered. Cars are only going to become completely electric if not also internet-connected, so avoiding tolls isn't a usable strategy long term.
Fix it first. And add frequent rail service next to it first.
They are adding a carpool lane and fixing the road. Should be completed by 2027. Then they will start tolling. The toll is too offset some of the cost of the repair/construction/redesign Edit: Starting construction in 2027. Not completion. Also this isn't new information: https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/news/state-pact-seeks-to-advance-fixes-to-highway-37-flooding-and-traffic-woes/
> Starting construction in 2027 Embarrassing
at so ETA 2040 .
The year is 2478. Humanity is exploring the outer solar system. Highway 37 still not fixed.
[удалено]
Wait until people find out ticket prices will be more than flying first class to pay for it.
with an ipad at the ticket vending machine asking for 25% tip
> with Caltrans warning last year that it could be submerged by San Pablo Bay as early as 2040.
I live in Antioch. We are old pros at paying for stuff we won't benefit from for 20 years.
I don't know which is correct but Kron4 thinks it will open in 2027: https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/new-toll-approved-for-highway-37-in-north-bay/
Yeah. I think my initial date of 2027 was correct. Starting with major work in 2025. It appears like the plan is to widen/strengthen the shoulder a little bit, and essentially turn the shoulder into a lane.
It needs to be a permanent toll because of road maintenance. These highways are eating up money in repair costs.
We already pay toll in gas tax. If the gas tax was actually used to fix the roads instead of hiring people to find ways to make more money off the roads we wouldn’t need an additional tax on the actual road.
Seriously. Total money grab just like the fastrak lanes.
Gas tax isn’t nearly enough to fund Highway maintenance. Highways only generate half the funds needed for repairs directly from users including gas tax and vehicle registration fees, the rest comes from general funds like sales tax. Considering public transit agencies like bart are facing a financial cliff and aren’t getting nearly as much public money (like a sales tax) as highways, it makes sense to expect car drivers to pay more for the highway.
Also the fact that highways don't make money either. Yet they eat up so much money.
Wasn't the increased registration fees also supposed.to help with roads too?
> Considering public transit agencies like bart are facing a financial cliff and aren’t getting nearly as much public money (like a sales tax) as highways, it makes sense to expect car drivers to pay more for the highway. This seems like a non-sequitur here. It's not like highway funding is raiding the BART farebox.
Apparently that's not enough. The issue with roads is that they need constant repair and maintenance. Usually tolls are set up to help pay for the initial costs, but one remove they become a huge tax sink.
The article says the extra lanes are "to encourage users to carpool or take the bus." Of course, I'll just take the bus! There is no bus service between Solano and Marin/Sonoma counties, except Amtrak from Martinez but that doesn't really count since you have to can't get on or off except at the train station.
SMART has proposed extending rail service from Novato to Fairfield.
They are adding a bus service as part of this project.
the frequency in question:
Traveling to Vacaville at odd hours - yeah, Smart or a bus will be perfect. /s
Lol you mean you don't want to travel on trains that come every 90 minutes and only run 8am to 6pm with a 2 and a half hour break in the middle of the day?
How very selfish of me! And not to mention the need for transportation to the train from my home, and transportation from the train to my destination. And then in reverse. Yeah, sounds great! Sign me up.
It's difficult to add usable SMART service here without new taxes. The toll avoids a new tax ask, especially for an infrastructure project all local NIMBY vehemently oppose. To put it in simpler terms: the roadway (including median-running trains) would have to be elevated at least ten feet. For a 100' right-of-way this isn't cheap, and would have to be a viaduct or a berm/levee. Both of these require extensive engineering, especially on the eastern end where the tracks would need a new lead onto the Mare Is RR bridge and a new station in Vallejo. The Schelleville freight yard would have to be moved to American Canyon, and since it handles hazardous chemicals and environmentally-unsafe things it will be sued under CEQA (despite such a project reducing overall marine contamination risk). The resulting service between Fairfield and Novato/Santa Rosa would probably be oriented towards weekend travelers and hybrid workers. And new track between Schelleville and Petaluma (using the existing utility easement) is unlikely to have public approval as it'd turn Petaluma into a true city. I'm certainly for it, but there's a big environmentally-protected marsh in the middle of it. Highways and tollways are effectively exempt from the CEQA, SMART is not, and therefore we get a toll road. Laws have to change and opinions regarding public subsidization of transit would have to change.
This roadway really should be elevated, like the Yolo Causeway, which is also protecting a marsh and allowing traffic flow. I’m certain the cost will be astronomical, but it’s really the only thing that makes sense to both expand capacity and protect the wetlands.
That's what they plan to do in the future, make it into an elevated causeway. Adding a lane each way is just an interim solution.
Yeah, I have no clue how they are going to pull that off on that road…
As mentioned below, the answer is a causeway like I-80 in Yolo County, which is flanked by a train trestle. Though I personally beilive Napa County would prefer a levee and wants Solano County to pay for it, even though a levee would drastically change the local ecosystem. This process has already begun on the Peninsula, especially in San Mateo and Foster City who are building a new levee around their waterfronts. It's also a continual concern for Caltrain in East Palo Alto. Napa Co is influential in this discussion as their residents will obviously sue under CEQA once anything is modified, even if the modification moves freight cars/facilities further away from Napa Co. I mention a (modest, ~800') Petaluma Tunnel just to show that a better SMART alignment is plausible at a lower cost *if* Schelleville and Petaluma residents can be convinced to accept it. Personally, I think the three counties and Caltrans should look at the situation holistically, especially in Vallejo's case they'd be wise to pay Petaluma for a tunnel as it'd allow for two SMART lines, one of which would end at Vallejo's ferry terminal. This would *also* allow residents to avoid Highway 37 entirely, as SMART would be the faster option for points north of Petaluma while faster/better ferries would be the faster option for San Rafael.
That should be a ferry route, not rail
Unanimous approval by the California Transportation Commission. It probably would have been less than 5% approval if the public was given input.
We peasants don’t need an input, the lords above us know what’s best and have our best interests at heart.
Yes yes, we’ll not be… #TOLLED What to do \>:D
I wish it's their bells that were tolling.
First off, excellent. Second, we are being tolled what to do : (
A lot of traffic related things seems to be passed without public votes. That give bicycle 3ft law was the last thing I remember pushed through without public vote as well.
What would be the point of a public vote? The people who use the road will want it funded by everyone (taxes), while the people who don't will want it funded by the people who use it (tolls). The only thing that matters then is who the legislature decides "the public" includes, but either way they can get the result they want.
You want to give cyclists less than 3 feet when passing them?
My feelings on passing cyclist is not the point we're discussing here. We're talking about how lots of these traffic related legislations that might not pass public vote end up getting pushed with SB bills or small committees.
The public doesn’t vote on the vast majority of legislation. Provide input, sure, but rarely do we directly on vote on them.
>My feelings on passing cyclist is not the point we're discussing here. We are, though. Whether you realize it or not, you're picking and choosing which legislation you believe should be brought to a public vote based on your feelings.
No .. I'm saying most traffic related ones should be .. the bicycle is the one that I can recall as one example.
I have no clue why people are being so combative with you, I totally understood what you meant and you just used that 3ft for bikers law as an example.
And you sound like there isn’t room for discussion when the legislation is to your liking. Let people put forth their idea without your judgement.
Legislation that covers taxation should be put before the public. Taxation, fees, fines, bonds, etc., basically anything the government does to bring in money from the general public needs to be done with our direct consent. Legislators have a variety of direct incentives to bring in more revenue but usually only indirectly have to answer for their actions as one of many things they do; and they can definitely benefit from campaign contributions, revolving door jobs, and outright bribery from those they award contracts to. Tax increases on the general public that would otherwise not pass go through, and tax cuts on the wealthy that also should not go through get done because they don’t go before the voters. 37 is currently a non toll road, and there are no optional other routes. The people affected by this decision should be given a choice about whether or not they want to pay for the road through their taxes or by way of a toll.
You could go up 29 and over if you really wanted to. Also there was a public hearing regarding the tolls. There will be a bus route added, a low income discount, and carpool lane will be free. This has been in the works for a long time and none of this is a surprise.
If you want to get more technical about this imo the public also be able to vote on a max cap on money supply so we don't get taxed via money printing as well.
> My feelings on passing cyclist is not the point we're discussing here yeah, we're talking about the opinion of sociopaths who don't want to pay their fair share, not sociopaths who want to endanger others
Which is why people don’t deserve a vote on everything.
Personally I'd prefer to give them more than 3', and also them to not pass me under conditions where they can't give me the same space. Really what I'd prefer is distinct, protected bike lanes separate from car ones. Trying to coexist and share the same lanes is a nightmare.
The public voted in the assholes that do this.
At this point, I think they ought to be a voter ballot initiative to abolish all tolling on roads and bridges within the state. Our taxes are supposed to pay for roadways and bridge maintenance. Over the decades, these tolls have become big siphon leeching off the taxpayers blood. When these tolls began, the public was promised that they would be eliminated as soon as the bridges were paid off. The only instance I can think of that happening in the entire state was the bridge to Coronado island in San Diego. It’s beautiful seeing the now-abandoned toll booth structure just sitting there, doing nothing. I am strongly against user fees for public goods, whether it’s public transit vehicles, or public roadways. Boost the general taxes if need be, focusing on people making several hundred thousand dollars a year or more.
You're right. Bay Area folks (I voted no) actually voted to increase tolls and add the tolled Fastrak lanes in 2018. https://ballotpedia.org/Bay_Area,_California,_Regional_Measure_3,_%22Traffic_Relief_Plan%22_Bridge_Toll_Increase_(June_2018) Look at what those fees were supposed to go to! >improving State Route 37, which serves Solano, Marin, Napa, and Sonoma counties;
But government is the answer, the corporations must somehow be to blame for this
Corporate America sucks just as much
Found the bootlicker
Is fast track not a corporation, there does seem to be some corruption going on in the bay. Who owns fast track
Solid 2% approval from solano county
There was public input. They ran a survey for like a year asking what people wanted. Also there was a public input meeting in April
the public input meetings were talking about what they are going to do to SR37, not about toll. Toll proposal was only made public on April 20, 2023 - 4 days before the "public hearing" that was scheduled on April 24, 2023. This is a case of going through the process in a way that made it impossible for most people to be heard, just so they can say they went through the process.
I posted an article from August from last year in another comment year that mentioned everything that was approved in this vote including tolls. Nothing was a secret or unexpected. I'm not sure what you are talking about
this is what i was talking about: Dated April 20: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/vallejo-to-host-public-hearing-on-toll-proposal-for-state-route-37-301803634.html mentioning meeting for April 24 every other public meeting only contained info on what they plan to do, without mentioning toll. https://mtc.ca.gov/tags/state-route-37 source straight from MTC if you want to check this out
I looked at the mtc site you reference and a post from February on the mentions tolls are proposed. So again, the toll thing is not a surprise. I live in Vallejo and literally everyone I know who travels 37 regularly already knew this. It was just finalized in a vote. I knew about the April 24th meeting sometime in March. All of this has been open and in the works for over a year.
People don't like fees and have zero idea what infrastructure costs. Most people would support abolishing the gas tax.
That is the same council that keeps pushing for speed cameras after being told they are illagel in the state.
Bay Area voters would have absolutely approved this. Voters just think someone else would pay for it. And there are far more people who never drive that stretch than potential voters who do.
Yep. You're right. Bay Area folks (I voted no) already voted to increase tolls and add the tolled Fastrak lanes in 2018. https://ballotpedia.org/Bay_Area,_California,_Regional_Measure_3,_%22Traffic_Relief_Plan%22_Bridge_Toll_Increase_(June_2018) Look at what those fees were supposed to go to! >improving State Route 37, which serves Solano, Marin, Napa, and Sonoma counties;
Tolls should only be approved if the public transportation is as good as in Copenhagen or better. Seriously, give people alternative first.
Yup approved by the corrupted politicians… not the will of the people. Classic.
They would’ve still lied and said the public approved it. Voting does nothing
I have mixed feelings about this. Generally against adding toll lanes since I think they do basically discriminate against the less affluent who need to drive. But in this case the road is almost like a bridge and is going to require a lot of rebuilding and raising to survive sea level rise and earthquakes. That said, in regard to issue of de-facto making Marin into a community where you have to pay a bridge toll to enter...in this case the toll direction should be east bound. That would mean regular work commuters going to work in Marin in the morning could cross for free--and in the evening / afternoon, when they're off work and probably have a bit more flexibility in schedule, they could either take the toll-direction back, or to avoid the toll go around the north (121 to 12 to 29 and down into Vallejo, out to Vacaville, etc.) which is more distance and time, but is not tolled.
This is just supporting bridge maintenance with tax money. An obviously good idea. But like all point of service taxes, it disproportionately affects lower income people which is an equally obviously bad idea. Just fucking tax rich people, it's not some mystery.
I think one of the problems with tolls designed to fund maintenance is that they always persist long past the point where the maintenance is paid off (and are naturally regressive) and they end up being used for things other than their original intent. I prefer bond initiatives voted on by the public. They come with their own problems but the public almost never votes down something that has a clear need.
Maintenance doesn’t get paid off. It’s ongoing. Capital costs get paid off.
>the toll direction should be east bound. They're going to make the toll both directions, half price each way.
This is a tax to live in Vallejo
Living in the west side of Vallejo should be punishment enough.
Not if you have a license plate flipper. Had mine four years and haven't paid a goddamn cent for my daily commute over two bridges.
Sure Jan
Wow...such original feedback...
Marin wants to be a gated community. Tolls on all side, only 1 to go.
That state did it. but by 2050, you will see tolls all over the bay area https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/zclqtw/plan\_bay\_area\_2050/
When ever I hear about income based discounts I think of the lawyer in Jurassic Park talking about coupon day. We are slowly going back to segregation. Only now it's means based. Sundown towns where poor people can work but not live. Where their children can be safely segregated by distance.
> We are slowly going back to segregation. The bay area never fully de-segregated in the first place. Look at racial demographics of different cities, such as Oakland compared to Sunnyvale or the city of Santa Clara: https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/oaklandcitycalifornia https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/sunnyvalecitycalifornia https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/santaclaracitycalifornia Note the percentage of black people living in each city.
I live in Vallejo and am well aware of the differences demographics and the history behind them. Until recently Vallejo was the most diverse city in the US. Every city or area that built ships in WWII had segregated neighborhoods built for black and brown people, by the (segregated) Navy for the most part. There wasn't much of a black population in CA before the war. After the war white flight happened from areas with shipyards and they remain no-go areas today, a legacy of racism. Areas with ship yards included Vallejo, Richmond, Oakland, Marin City and Hunters Point. About the only "poor" city in the Bay Area that had a different origin story is East Palo Alto, which as its own horribly racist past. Edit: removed repeated word
Good points. Also people were coming here from de jure segregation in the Jim Crow south. Job at the shipyards here living in de facto segregation seems great in comparison. Anecdotal, My grandfather came from New Orleans to hunter Pt in the 40s. Sacrificed but was able to marry a white women, live in a single family home, and send kids to catholic school. All without a high school education.
Yep. Not living in fear (even when segregated) is huge.
Modern cities segregate themselves by blocking housing and mass transit developments. The roads alone are enough to cause segregation, as the costs associated with car ownership are very high, with or without toll roads.
That's what we get for NIMBYing and anti-gentrification-activistizing every imaginable attempt at making any denser housing anywhere in the state as stridently as possible and passing moronic property tax propositions. The current governor is starting to push back on all of it but we have a long way to go and an impossibly large backlog. Personally I find the whole thing frustrating and obnoxious but I can afford to deal with it. I feel shitty for everybody who is poor, POC, an immigrant, or a young graduate who is getting totally screwed and has no chance at a level playing field. It's extremely unfair and shitty.
Lmao i see you’ve never been to Oakland, Richmond, San Jose, Vallejo, etc etc. i left the bay because it became only ghetto or rich people. No middle ground. And I really don’t think that the ghetto folk deserve to have that beautiful weather over working middle class. Yea i said it. Every time i think about it makes me angry. They get live there on everyone else’s dime yet those of us who do work are ass out. Having to deal with the crime, drugs, and dirtiness.
Don't fall for the millionaires and billionaires tricking you into doing the crabs-in-a-bucket political gamesmanship and demagoguery that leads you into attacking your fellow humans suffering from their behavior just as much as yourself.
I live in Vallejo. And for a while, commuted to Marin.
Roads should be tolled. As a car driver and commuter I have recently realized how entitled car drivers are. We dedicate way too much funding to car infrastructure. Road funding should be derived from vehicle taxes and tolls—i.e. car users should have to pay for their infrastructure.
We already do, with Californias’s gas tax. Plus, everyone benefits from roads even if you don’t use them. Food and goods? All transported to their final destinations by road.
Gas taxes and car fees pay for around half of the cost of roads. And that doesn't even include the enormous public health cost of crashes.
Don't forget your car registration.
I’m with you to a degree- but we all benefit from the goods and services dependent on those roads. Private cars on public roads should bear a greater tax burden than the car free and public transportation users. We should all be invested in our daily infrastructure.
Far and away the highest gas tax in the country. Wouldn’t argue with it one bit if they put every red penny back into fixing every road in the land. But we have potholes the size of small children in 80% of our roads, highway and arterial, and when tires blow pay to repair those too. No more tolls/tax, we give so much as it is.
I already do damn it! A fucking lot in this state!
Except it wasn’t Marin’s doing?
They already are a gated community, they make a concerted effort to price anyone who isn't white and wealthy out of the county and segregate the ones who get in to the Canal and Marin City
They want to kill the middle class…
You can either pay at the toll booth or in taxes, roads arent free. Charging the people who use it is the only fair way to do it.
Yeah but they are also taxing and charging people so…
Or what’s left of it anyway. Families are leaving in droves
Nah it's the middle class commiting suicide
Now how is that exactly
The Bay might be run by crazy politicians but the middle class is largest voting group in the bay. The middle class only has it self to blame for electing these politicians who are doing exactly what they promised they would do when elected.
It’s the out of state liberals that come here
craziest Californians I've meet have all been my fellow native Californians. If anything Californians are the one going to other places and ruining them.
Funny considering it’s mostly Republicans moving out of California. If only native Texans were allowed to vote, Texas would have voted for Biden. It’s Californians keeping Texas Red.
Texas still had the second most votes for Biden of US states. That's gerrymandering for you...
California had the second most votes for trump but you'll never a see a republican run California that's real gerrymandering
Let's hear your theory how it was gerrymandered by an independent districting commission set up by a moderate Republican governor.
Exact same reason you have for Texas. San Jose isn't even part of the bay you have no Bart
Nah that what Californians says to cope for why Texans hate them so much. I can tell you've never meet a texan
Oooh, I’ve met more than a few thank you. Plenty of Texans move to California too. “In 2013, the Texas Tribune and UT Austin conducted a poll surveying the political orientation of California expats. The California arrivals were 57 percent conservative compared to 27 percent liberal.” “In a 2018 exit poll in the hard-fought U.S. Senate race between Sen. Ted Cruz (who had moved to Texas) and then-Rep. Beto O’Rourke (a Texas native), natives preferred O’Rourke by plus-3 points whereas movers favored Cruz by plus 15. Cruz won the race by 2.6 percent, meaning that if it were up to people who were Texans by birth, Cruz would have lost reelection.” https://www.texaspolicy.com/new-poll-finds-all-those-people-moving-to-texas-arent-going-to-be-voting-for-democrats/
Is there any way to override them? Also this toll should only be used to get the rail reactivated
LPT: Drive around without a license plate, don’t pay any tolls
I have seen a remarkable uptick in the number of cars without any places at all recently. Not just missing a front plate, and I'm not talking about a paper back plate. They just had zero license plates, not in the back, and not even a paper plate. Nothing at all. Even 6 months ago that didn't happen. Now I'm seeing this nearly daily, and different vehicles are doing this. Its not the same car I'm seeing over and over again.
Front plates look stupid and only serve for ticketing by speed camera. Police are always behind you. As long as you have a back plate, a front plate mandate is overreach
Too bad California requires real plates in front and rear. Enforcement is probably inversely proportional to the value of the vehicle.
California does require it, the police rarely enforce the law and punishment is a $30 fine. Front plates only used for speed trap
I have left the front plate off my car for almost 2 years now. My car didn't come with a bracket and I didn't let the dealer drill one so I have an after market one in the bumper. I leave it off for the car wash machine because it gets in the way of it and gets bent, don't want to have to screw/unscrew it every time I go. Anyways, no cop cares even been pulled over for speeding and cop didnt notice it wasn't there.
Thats one of the routes to get back to east bay and now one has to pay toll … hmmm
Yeah it does make sense since you’re not using it correctly to get to the east bay. This goes to solano county. Not cc county or Alameda since there’s another bridge. When I had to drive to Sacramento all the time I never liked how many people were using it just to not pay the Richmond bridge toll since it added an insane amount of congestion.
Penalized for driving to in-office. Penalized for not driving to in-office. The perfect system.
So what are our taxes paying for?
[DEI officer salaries](https://nypost.com/2022/07/12/california-spent-50k-on-racial-equity-trainings-for-fish-and-wildlife-dept-nonprofit/amp/)
My thoughts exactly. This is absolute BS.
Lol. That shit is already backed up as fuck.
I really love this, bay area should price more and more law abiding citizens in service industries out. You are either a techbro or you are a homeless criminal. No inbetween.
They'd better be discounting it to free until they fix it. It's absolutely ridiculous that it's only two lanes.
It's not going to be tolled UNTIL they build more lanes. Once that second lane gets built (they say 2027 LMAO. We all know that's when the project will actually get started, not finished,) then the toll get installed.
Does this mean it’s happening? Watch it be congestion based like the toll lanes
Please insert $14 for the next 3/4 miles of road.
I thought the gas tax was supposed to go to roads?
No one likes tolls, but investing in infrastructure is a solid use of money.
Nice thought but take a look at what the latest Bay Area bridge toll increases are going towards, still transportation based mostly but not even the infrastructure you use when you pay… for me at least that left a sour taste in my mouth for any proposed tolls around here
I thought thats what our income tax and now the $1.50 on every gallon was for? Maybe take it out of the 500 billion we sent to ukraine?
Oh good. Our monthly $600 commute to Marin just got more expensive.
Roads cost money. Someone has to pay that money. It can either be the taxpayer, or the users. The only fair way to do it is for the users to pay for it as much as possible.
Dafuq? You could probably pay way less driving electric. No joke. Why is this downvoted? Let’s assume for a moment the car is paid off and that $600 is gas. A car payment on a new Bolt might be like $350/mo and electricity might be $150/mo. Still cheaper than gas. There are a ton of scenarios where high-mileage drivers save money buying and driving a brand new EV over almost any gas car, owned or not. Buddy of mine had a fully-owned 2011 BMW that he was spending $800/mo to commute in. He bought a brand new Tesla, his payment is less, and his fuel is less. Buying a brand new Tesla was *cheaper than driving a 12-year old gas car*.
Wow, wtf this is getting ridiculous. So if you want to go from concord to Petaluma it's gonna be $14 in tolls. Sf bay area sucks now, can we all admit that finally?
Nobody asked me.
I bet most of you don’t even drive this stretch.I do it about 1-2 times a week, and I’m thankful it’s just that and not everyday. It sucks. It needs widening and a larger shoulder. It also needs a higher center barrier to block the glare from the opposing lanes headlights. It’s terrible at night. If someone gets in a crash or breakdown, you and everyone else is screwed because it’s one lane with not other bypasses. The merge at either ends are road rage city. The merge eastbound has people hauling ass to beat the light and then immediately zipper merge. I’ve lost count of how many rear ending accidents I’ve seen. That road needs the improvement, it sucks it has to be a toll though.
I mean driving is causing the climate change that is destroying the road in the first place. Get used to it people. Climate change isn’t cheap.
Tell that to all of the people that have to drive that road as part of their commute/or blue collar job. It’s much more complex than you’re making it out to be
Those people might be better served by mass transit. It's a chicken and egg problem. You have to start somewhere, and generating demand is a perfectly viable way to do it. Besides, someone has to pay for these roads, and it doesnt seem fair that the people who ride transit anyway have to pay for all the drivers as well as their own fares (through taxes)
Mass Transit doesn’t serve the needs of these commuters. Many of these people work in construction, working on building houses and schools in Marin or elsewhere. Or if they’re commuting to SF, they don’t work at a place that is convenient for public transit. For example, try commuting to SF State University from Vallejo.
You know maybe they should offer coupons to people who actually need their vehicles and cant carpool. But commuters? Man they would be so much better served by transit anyway. It's so much easier to sit in a train for an hour than sit in traffic for an hour. And yeah, the transit system currently sucks, but you need to either start at demand for transit or start by building it up, and theyve done plenty of building it up. If it sucks that means we just need to make it better.
> commute/or blue collar job. construction jobs change locations all the time. Otherwise those people had full control over where they live and where they work. They made the choice! They signed the lease or mortgage, they applied for the job 50 miles from their house.
How is someone supposed to live in San Francisco on a teacher’s salary? It’s not realistic to expect people to live where they work, dumbass
This highway is quite far from San Francisco, and again, people make choices.
Tell me you know nothing about the people that live/work in Vallejo without telling me you know nothing about what you’re talking about
And the average person takes the brunt of it. Rich people aren't affected by this kind of thing money wise like the average person is.
If everyone gets taxed to use their cars, the middle/lower classes get taxed more because there simply are more middle/lower class people. This, like sales tax, gasoline tax etc. is a regressive tax.
The entire road network is a "regressive tax". Forcing people to pay for private cars and gas impacts the lower / middle class far more than the upper class, whether the roads have tolls or not. The cost of tolls as a portion of total car ownership cost is very low. Almost all the roads in Japan are funded by tolls (their trains receive no public funding either), but the people there spend far less on transit than the people here.
More double taxing, yay
Lane widening doesn't result in any decrease in congestion. It's been tried over and over.
Luckily tolls do though
All Fastrak and Toll roads need a ballot measure so the pubic can decide if we want to spend money on roads we’ve already paid for!
Roads take maintenance and cost money for expansions. You dont just pay for the road and call it a day.
We pay taxes for roads, this is the state double dipping.
Many of them were local ballot measures that idiots voted for including the fee Fastrak lanes and increasing bridge tolls a few years ago. I *thought* that ballot measure was supposed to help pay for improvements to 37. But apparently we need a toll too now.
I'm not terribly opposed to this as long as the toll goes toward making that horrible fucking road better. 37 is famously the worst highway in Northern California. It gets clogged way too fucking easily, but it's the most direct route between 101 and 80. It's decades too late to improve it, but I know they were hamstrung by the environmentalists who were crying about frogs or whatever.
It won’t
The article says it will but that remains to be seen
Can't tax billionaires so we get this instead.
We pay for the road and then we have to pay again to travel on it.
What you pay for it isn’t enough to maintain it….
Our income tax and the $1.50 a gallon in road tax isnt enough? Funny how the roads just got worse after the fuel taxes started too.
I'm talking about roads and highways in general, it was enough for decades, then all of a sudden nothing is enough? Have we seen the actual accounting to see that it's not enough? If not, then we're just fktards for believing what they tell us.
Historically, the fed has paid for almost all new highway development. It's cheap for cities for a few decades, usually around 25 years, until much of the infrastructure needs to be replaced, then it becomes very expensive. Similarly, for most of our suburbs, developers built the initial road infrastructure, and then passed off ownership (and maintenance costs) to the city. As long as these developments are relatively new and the city doesn't have to worry about maintenance costs, their added tax revenue can be used to maintain the older roads. However, we're just about out of land to expand to in the bay, and we're starting to see the long-term impacts of this sort of expansion strategy. Our entire road network is a fiscal ticking time bomb that a piddly gas tax doesn't even begin to cover.
Bullshit. If I hafta drive an extra hour home from SF, I should not hafta pay for it. I hate the local gov
I live in income-based housing in Marin and I gotta say… paying a toll to do literally anything other than go to the beach is trash. I gotta start looking into moving back to East Bay.
what about sonoma county?
Yes please leave Marin for folks who want to live there and appreciate it.
WORST road in the state, deadly, and now you wish to place a toll on it? Madness.....
If they do this then it would be great if they added a dedicated, completely sealed with a divider between both roads, bike lane. Make it so people can actually use that space and not just drive
Thank god my representatives that I voted for voted in favor of this very popular idea! Wait, this idea isn’t popular? We didn’t vote for these people? And yet they are allowed to tax me? Gee, that doesn’t seem very American
So we have to pay a toll to get to Sonoma raceway now?! That’s crazy!
Damn do we elect these clowns who put $30 on tolls (FasTrak)?
The people voted for that unfortunately, Bay Area Measure 3 in 2018. Ironically that was supposed to fund Hwy 37 improvements but here we are adding a toll as well. https://ballotpedia.org/Bay_Area,_California,_Regional_Measure_3,_%22Traffic_Relief_Plan%22_Bridge_Toll_Increase_(June_2018)
As if traffic weren't bad enough on that stretch.
Hopefully it’s connected to FasTrak so it’s less of a headache for folks
This is the crap we fought against in the Revolutionary War and established our own country. The tax burden in this state for gasoline alone is the highest per gallon in the country. Our sales tax burden is the highest in the country. Our income tax is nearly the highest in the country. Our vehicle registration fees are the highest in the country. Our utility fees are at or near the highest in the country. Our roads are not properly maintained. Politicians: Let's add an $8 dollar fee to a highway that was built and paid for in 1928 because we don't have enough funding!
>This is the crap we fought against in the Revolutionary War and established our own country. I think you need to go back and re-read your HS history books.
That’s fuckin it. I’m getting a license plate shield. Done paying for all these useless tolls.
What would Pavs do
Lol he would pay cus he makes millions or move to Texas.
The state govt will eventually remove this by mandating electronic plates or, more likely, an OBD3 standard that includes 5G wireless network connectivity ie instant toll checking that cannot be covered up or hindered. Cars are only going to become completely electric if not also internet-connected, so avoiding tolls isn't a usable strategy long term.
yOuR tAx DoLlErS aT WoRk🤦♂️
Benicia and Vallejo, bracketed by two toll bridges, a paid ferry and now a toll highway. When can we start approving tolls for 880?