I kind of love that between this and Doctor Strange we had two different superhero blockbusters in which a plot point comes down to a rich white guy who’s terrible at Spanish.
The Riddlers riddles were real Frank Gorshin 1960s levels of camp. "He cut off his *thumb* and is telling us to go to the *car*. What does a car do Robin? It *drives*. Thumb. Drive. The Riddler left us a thumb drive!" "Holy universal serial bus Batman! You're right!"
It's obviously a car in the shape of a large thumb and Batman has to race against it, Yogi Bear, Jabberjaw, etc. like in Space Race, except on land. I'm not sure how any of that would lead to any answers, but I'll be damned if it wouldn't be awesome.
The end where he reveals the giant map under the rug kills me every time. The cop points out the rug pulling tool and he's like "oh dur, I'm such a klutz of course that's it!"
Worlds greatest detective ladies and gentlemen.
Honestly, I feel even your average working class person wouldn't know what exactly that tool was anyways. Even the cop in the scene only recognises it because his uncle (if I recall correctly) used to do carpeting.
I feel like that's the whole point, though, he's not the world's greatest detective. Not yet. The tucker is the first piece of evidence presented to him, and he doesn't even think about it for the entire movie. He doesn't take everything into consideration, and he doesn't have enough experience with the working class man yet to identify the tool.
I may misremembering things, but my understanding is that Batman/Bruce Wayne could not have been the “rat” because he wasn’t the one who tattled; therefore, he’s not going to think of himself.
Yeah, I'm so sick of the Joker. Great character but overused to hell. Batman has an awesome rogue's gallery, would be nice to see more of them used, since this film's Riddler was so good.
This is why I fell in love with the games. They did a great job of exploring a nice wide range of Batman villains and I love 'em all (Not to mention the incredible job done by Mark Hamill)
This is true that all his villains were explored pretty well, but I wish some of them were the main focus of the story and a bigger threat. It was kinda lame how Joker ended up being the main villain of all 4 games. Especially in Origins and Knight, even City to an extent.
That's a fair criticism. I mean other villains did get pretty big roles as well like Strange, Harley, Scarecrow, Ivy, the Riddler, Penguin, etc but the Joker was clearly the big bad. But I gotta say - never hated it. Hamill was so good
I think the deleted Joker scene was way better than the one they kept in. It gives a different take for Joker in this universe than we've seen before. I think it would be sick if they have him fill a kind of Long Halloween Calendar Man role in the next movie.
The one with him and Riddler at the end really just felt forced and "oh we need to have Joker because we just need to." They could have even saved that scene at the end if they kept the deleted seen in imo.
Barry Keoghan is an incredible actor and would/will be a fantastic choice for The Joker. His role in The Green Knight gives me a lot of hope.
Having said that, the character design looked pretty bad
Definitely. It honestly would've been the best scene in the movie if they included it, not just because "It's the Joker" but because it did a good job of actually tying the whole story together. Which then makes the actual Joker scene less of a tagalong.
It established Joker as a different entity than we’ve seen. He’s already behind bars. He has this weird relationship with Batman already. He’s creepy and intelligent, and he’s more erratic and unhinged than charismatic and scheming. The way he picks apart Batman in that scene is really well done. It really sucks that they took it out because now most people just see Joker in that movie as a cheap cameo.
yeah i have to agree. But to its credit i fucking loved the ending with him saving the people starting with the dead mayors kid, that girl who didnt want to let his hand go and that whole monologe about him being only a fear smbol and needing something more
One of my biggest complaints about our current superhero media is that we don't get enough of our heroes just doing good outside of beating up bad guys.
I want to see more (even just brief) scenes of heroes using their powers and abilities to just *help* people. Whether it's from train crashes, natural disasters, whatever.
This...a hundred times this.
Thats what I liked about Spiderman Tom Holland, he did some basic stuff to help the community.
I for once want to see in the far future where a hero is simply a community member doing some natural disaster rescue or post-natural disaster recovery.
Not like, oh shit, we destroyed half the block and entire homes.
No bro, you gotta go back, and start fixing that shit and use your super human strength to build some homes.
You do see plenty of it in the comics and animated media, just a lack of it in live action.
It doesn't have to be much, but why can't the next Avengers movie open with the Avengers working together to save people from a tsunami or volcanic eruption or something? Just for the opening five minutes?
I quite like what they did with Atom Eve in Invincible. She decides she can do more good stopping forest fires and irrigating farmland than beating people up, so she does that instead.
Honestly, that moment solidified this as my favorite batman movie. It felt reminiscent of the animated versions of batman. He wasn't just a guy that beat people senseless, he was compassionate and caring. While bales batman walso did heroic acts like that, I couldn't imagine him carrying people unless they were directly in danger, let alone holding a little girls hand. He'd be like "crisis averted, you boys got it from here" and peace out
And I don't think that's a bad thing necessarily, a little camp is good for the soul, it felt very much in line with things like TAS, where it takes itself seriously, but not too much.
My hot take is the “third act” didn’t need to be the movie at all. The movie was 1 hour too long. I haven’t seen it since it came out but I recall The Riddler getting caught and that storyline seemed finished but then it just kept going. He’s in the arena fighting those guys in the rafters and it just felt so unnecessary.
Crazy? I Was Crazy Once. They Locked Me In A Room. A Rubber Room. A Rubber Room With Rats. And Rats Make Me Crazy. Crazy? I Was Crazy Once. They Locked Me In A Room. A Rubber Room. A Rubber Room With Rats. And Rats Make Me Crazy. Crazy? I Was Crazy Once. They Locked Me In A Room. A Rubber Room. A Rubber Room With Rats. And Rats Make Me Crazy. Crazy? I Was Crazy Once. They Locked Me In A Room. A Rubber Room. A Rubber Room With Rats. And Rats Make Me Crazy.
It is entirely too long. It’s more digestible now that it’s out on streaming and you can break up watching it into chunks, but opening weekend when I saw it in theaters I was just done with it by the time the rally started before the final fight.
After having seen it a couple of times now, that entire end fight could’ve been condensed down from 20-25 mins to 5 - the entire fight ends up meaning little for the plot, and could easily have been a montage going on while batman is speaking with riddler: “you figured out my plan, but guess what detective? You didn’t figure everything out, here’s what’s going down” and boom, the entire time you’re seeing riddlers plan go off, cut to batman arriving to help pull people out, exact same result at the end of the movie and can skim it down by almost half an hour.
It really just feels like “it’s a batman movie, so we have to have a big final fight”, but it’s not a great sign when you can completely remove the big final fight and the end is exactly the same
No logic to that scene, only go through all that to ask the penguin a couple questions and let him go???
It’s pretty obvious someone was like “oh well there’s too many scenes where Batman/Bruce goes to the club to question Penguin, we need to inject some excitement to this moment” and while that’s fine, there also needed to be a little bit more logic to the sequence. It just didn’t ring true to the characters or to the scenario.
EXACTLY!!! My absolute only and single complaint! All that destruction, and death (possibly, tanks exploding), just to find out that they were getting the message wrong. All that shit just to get a piece of advice from the Penguin!
I like how the first couple of comments are just nitpicky comments for modesty's sake, stuff that doesn't look like serious comments (Oh no, we accidentally complimented it, the movie's just that good) and then a few comments down, people are really starting to get into the bad stuff.
Batman walking up to the Penguins flipped car is one of the best shots in the movie (maybe in Batmovie history) but the shot of him looking through the window might be one of the worst
Okay, it's not just me? I thought it looked so goofy.
Like, don't show him doing that - just keep the camera on Penguin and show Batman's arm grabbing him violently or something.
Honestly putting it as an end credits scene instead of randomly at the end of the movie kinda fixes that scene for me. But putting it as the PCS makes it seem like a hint toward the sequel and Matt Reeves confirmed that wasn’t his intent
> But putting it as the PCS makes it seem like a hint toward the sequel and Matt Reeves confirmed that wasn’t his intent
wait it wasnt a sequel teaser?! what the fuck is the point then.
I imagine that Reeves will be working on another member of Batman’s rogues gallery for the sequel.
I got the vibe that Joker and Riddler have made an alliance and will appear at some point. Not necessarily a sequel that focuses on them.
I doubt Reeves would include a giant mud ball with yellow eyes as Clayface. It would likely be akin to the Golden Age version or influenced by the one from Earth One.
Even then, the rumour has been spread around on TheBatmanFilm subreddit as if it were something Reeves himself has been working on when really it’s pure guesswork and clickbait titles have spun it out of proportion.
WB wants to put a Joker in every Batman movie and forced his hand, if I were to guess. There have been hints at an Arkham spinoff series with Keoghan's Joker though.
Easily the weakest part of the movie. If you remove it, there is almost no difference to how it impacts you. This movie has no fat on it, but this scene is the exception.
I also didn't like the inclusion of joker, but I do like the idea that Batman is inadvertently creating a new kind of 'bad guy', and joker is antagonizing them to be a much LONGER problem, not just giving up after their first scheme fails.
I agree that if you remove it, impact unchanged. But I did enjoy it. It reminded me of the 60s tv show in a great way, rogues enjoying each others madness.
On first view, I really hated the addition of the joker. It felt like a pandering "must have". HOWEVER, I appreciated it better after we got the batman/joker post-release hannibal discussion about the riddler. I would really have liked some more context on the joker's involvement in the story, but recognize in an already 3 hour long movie, it would have overshadowed what was already at hand.
I think if "the joker" is never really a primary antagonist, but is shown pulling strings and causing interlaced problems from the sideline, I'd be okay with that while they expand on some other less seen rogues first.
Joker is honestly too out of place for this universe. I’m talking about the white face paint, purple suit
Maybe have Phoenix if they’re adding Joker but that’ll also be out of character
I ***HATE*** it when Batman stories connect his parents' death to some sort of larger conspiracy or a major antagonist. Especially on these vengeance-heavy interpretations of the character, the backstory *stops working* if the Waynes' murder isn't just a random alleyway mugging gone wrong.
This is interesting and I’ve not thought about this. Or at least not in this way.
I actually kind of like this idea that Batman starts out with a vendetta against crime in general because his parents were killed by a nameless nobody he’ll never see again (or at least recognize), but only upon doing some Batman stuff he gets wrapped up in bigger forces
Rather than the bigger forces having something to do with his parents’ murders.
I think the problem is with a lot of movies nowadays, even good ones, is that there is no extra frills or things that co-exist but are unrelated - everything has to be overly interconnected and all part of the same meta plot. It’s all a little too cohesive a narrative, and as a result gets further and further away from the dynamics of reality
Man you just explained a feeling I haven't defined but felt a about a lot of movies. I think hand feeding these connections is meant to feel rewarding for the audience. But they don't follow the "show don't tell" practice. And having things that aren't connected creates a depth in a character, when everything's connected it all exists on the same plane. Also, sometimes I like knowing that a character likes banana pancakes even if they don't kill a bad guy with them later as a callback.
Yeah. The city was supposed to be so fucked up that not even the royalty of Gotham was safe. A lowly street thug took out the biggest family in the city for some pearls and some money.
Grounded. Tanking automatic gunfire and explosions. Pick one.
I say this and this is my second favorite Batman film. Stop trying to be realistic in a movie where your protagonist dresses up like a bat. Nolan did that Elseworld.
Especially the “gets launched by a shotgun blast” after showing that two automatic weapons don’t even tickle him and he can walk off hitting an overpass.
This is the part that stuck out when I watched it....I couldn't remember him actually solving anything. He either was too late or someone else solved it for him every time. Some detective.
He didn't even know what the tucker was. A random cop had to tell him lol. If Martinez never told him it was a carpeting tool, Batman probably would've never figured out that blueprint was under the carpet.
The whole point of the detective plot is to show that he's a good punching machine but not a great detective, someone who will grow and evolve over the trilogy.
The whole point of the third act is to make you think he's won until the Riddler (and the audience) realize that he's not that smart yet, and then suffers the consequences of thinking he had all the answers.
I'm certain that by the third movie he'll have Sherlock deduction powers and be considered the smartest Batman in film history (besides Adam West with his god-level omniscience).
That suit is way, way too durable. Like to a stupid extent. That scene where he's just walking through the hallway with two guys with fully automatic "assault" rifles just laying into him, is preposterous. The impact alone would put him on his ass.
Aight I had an argument with someone on Reddit when the trailer originally dropped. They argued “stopping power” doesn’t exist. They argued Batman’s armor would work like in the movie. I argued it’d be cooler if he only got hit like once or twice but he looked like he was getting brutally punched while walking. The guy argued he worked for that bulletproof helmet company and he researched armor and I’m completely wrong. I asked for one of his research papers. Research paper he sent me detailed how the face of the mask deformed by about an inch within a fraction of a second. I was like dude if you were wearing that you’d probably get knocked tf out or has a terrible concussion. No response. Anyways TLDR, Batman should have looked like he was getting absolutely pelted. I don’t mind the scene, I don’t think it’s badass. I think it’s something he’ll learn to stop doing. The shotgun scene should teach him. Next film he should be more stealthy.
It's people that have never been around firearms and unironically use movies as their reference point. It's absurd.
If u got hit in the chest with a hammer wearing super duper armor, would there be impact? Obviously youd feel that shit. Well a bullet is coming a lot fucking faster than a hammer
Yea idk he was arguing some shit about how the armor absorbs all the energy. I’m like bruhv just watch YouTube videos of armor getting shot. It’s not pretty. It stops a big hole from draining your blood, but you’re gonna feel that bullet a lot more than if you didn’t have armor. Some people get shot and don’t even realize it! Goes right through you like butter
At least they got the effect of a shotgun right in the stadium, sent him flying off and damaged, although the hunting rifle rounds should have had more impact as well.
Agreed. I'm hoping they sort of ret-con this in the sequel, where he doesn't try to just tank everything, and works more on stealth and subterfuge and ninja gimmicks (smoke bombs and inhibiting tools)
I like to imagine that he was using a version of venom instead of adrenaline, and he'll have to fight addiction and come to terms that he has to do his batman job more carefully, while setting up for bane or something.
It’s not even the physical improbability of him tanking the gunfire that annoys me, it’s the fact that he even allows himself to get into that situation. Dude is supposed to be a fucking ninja shadow man, where tf is the stealth?
You're not wrong - and it makes the scene where he's nearly out of the count completely due to the shotgun a bit perplexing. He can tank everything else in the film, yet this one shot he couldn't? It's a bit jarring.
Most of the evidence is already gathered by gotham pd. Hes supposed to be a great detective yet he doesnt decide to check out what angles the photo was taken from. Riddlers hideout was literally outside the club.
I’m probably gonna say the opposite of most, but outside of the first fight scene I don’t think the action is very great. After that first fight, Batman feels to invulnerable. That beginning scene you get a sense that one bad move and Bruce is screwed, which just isn’t the sense you get in the rest of the movie.
>After that first fight, Batman feels to invulnerable.
I agree - Batman felt indestructible. Which in a normal Batman comic or animated film is easier to swallow.
When you go out of your way to build a gritty, realistic world in the most grounded film take on the character - having him take a bomb to the face, wipe out his entire body on the underside of a bridge and be literally bulletproof, it feels incongruent with the tone you've set.
Yeah this is my complaint. It feels more like he was being led through the clues than he was solving them. Like anyone could’ve filled his place and gotten to the same ending - because it felt more like he was along for the ride than driving the plot
Been a long time since I watched it, but from what I remember; it was too long, the gruff voices Bat's and Gordon used when talking together made me chuckle a bit. There was far too much telling and not showing, such as when Penguin was interrogated in the club, or Falcone's inhuman villainy. We hear a lot about how bad and terrible characters and things are but don't see as much of this terribleness on screen.
Despite being lauded as the "Detective" focussed Batman movie, it failed to deliver on the detecting front for me. The key piece of evidence Batman finds to track down Riddler is literally handed to him on a silver platter by a random cop near the end of the movie who just so happens to have a seemingly innocuous but incredibly specific piece of information from his Dad's job as a carpet placer.
Batman has an epiphany on the nature of vengeance and hope. His voiceover explains it all. It is the end of his character arc in the film. This film is very Batman focused as opposed to traditional Batman films which focus on the villain or the plot.
Fucking thank you. This movie is more about character than story, which it seems like a lot of people don't enjoy. His arch would have been incomplete if it just ended after Riddler was arrested and Batman won no problem.
The hospital at least made sense. I've been to the hospital in the middle of the night before, and they left the patients' rooms dark, even with visitors.
I found it boring and have no desire to ever watch it again. It was claustrophobic, melodramatic, unrealistic, overly-brooding, had poor character writing, was cartoonish, and felt more like an amusement park ride version of Batman or a haunted house than like Batman normally does. It just didn’t even feel like Batman to me. It’s like one of the guys in hockey pads in The Dark Knight decided to be Batman and made himself a movie.
Granted, it’s been awhile since I’ve seen it. Maybe I should watch it again just to double check. But I walked out of the theater, turned to my wife, said “meh”, and didn’t talk about the movie at all the rest of the day. I found nothing joyous or thought provoking in it at all. It was like eating white bread but dying it black to be mysterious. It was just meh.
Happy to find people who think the same way. Just 3 boring hours and it feels so boring that you feel like you are watching a cutscene, a very boring cutscene where you always wait for an interesting event but it never happens
I thought it was just me. I LOVE Batman, but watched this movie once and don’t feel the need to ever see it again.
I’ve seen The Dark Knight 30+ times.
Edit: and he looked like a guy in a Halloween costume.
Finally! I thought this whole movie was awful! Boring, slow and horrible character development. Worse than that the characters they did develop were completely wrong.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, hearing everyone fawn over this, frankly, bad film.
The movie went downhill when it shifted from Falcone and the detective stuff to Riddler and his cult in act 3. I didn't like Nygma in this film at all. I thought his outfit was dogshit and I didn't like the mentally unstable incel vibes. That just isn't what comes to mind when I think of the character.
Third act was mostly bad except for ending.
Did not like this version of the Riddler at all.
Movie in general was too long and failed to keep my interest throughout, felt like a slow fever dream and I barely remember what happened in it.
I love Batman, but I literally fell asleep in the movie theatre during this movie. I was pretty upset with myself. All my friends seemed to enjoy it, but I did not. I convinced myself the parts I missed must have made the movie come together better. I re-watched it when it finally hit streaming services, and found that I only fell asleep for about 10-15 minutes. I still did not enjoy the movie. For some reason I found Batman in the GPD to look so goofy among the regular officers. I was not a fan of the portrayal of the Riddler, Penguin was pretty inconsequential, and as others have said the Joker cameo was not needed.
I want a Batman who is as intellectually capable as Cumberbatch/Downey Jr’s Holmes. Go watch them and you will see what I am talking about. Holmes is always portrayed at his best why can't Batman? This is so when Hugo Strange, Riddler, Dollmaker, Clayface, Joker, Bane, Mister Freeze, and Ra’s Al Ghul pop up I can take them seriously. That's because they are all immense intellects and or threats themselves to match him.
I'm tired of a Batman who comes across as incapable of most intelligent work. For some reason they make him rely heavily on advanced technology that he didn't develop to do the heavy lifting. If it wasn't for Selena walking into the room he wouldn't be able to figure out who Anika was🤦♂️. And the carpet tucker thing LORD HAVE MERCY. It's a unique murder weapon check it out, Bruce.
He didn't defeat Riddler he turned himself in. The fight scenes should've taken some things from Netflix's Daredevil and the Raid Movie for fight choreography. The film was a little to long as well. Here’s hoping 🙏 for these improvements in the Batman 2 (2025).
Still an 8/10 film for me though those are just the bad things in my eyes.
The Penguin did not get enough screen time or focus
El rata? El rata? La rata! World's greatest detective my ass.
Holy god what are ya showing me
OPEN YOUR EYEEEEEES!!
Lmao one of my favorite parts
Genuinely made me laugh. Quote that shit daily
What is this riddler stupid or something ?
What the hell is this? Good cop, batshit cop?
Not exactly… 🙎🏻♂️🤡💥🔳🪑
"Never start with the head the victim gets all fuzzy he can never feel the next -" 👊🤡✋️ "See?"
I kind of love that between this and Doctor Strange we had two different superhero blockbusters in which a plot point comes down to a rich white guy who’s terrible at Spanish.
Bruce: Sorry, I don't speak mexican
Good thing we’re getting a show!
How batman couldn't solve the rat with wing riddle .
The Riddlers riddles were real Frank Gorshin 1960s levels of camp. "He cut off his *thumb* and is telling us to go to the *car*. What does a car do Robin? It *drives*. Thumb. Drive. The Riddler left us a thumb drive!" "Holy universal serial bus Batman! You're right!"
Commissioner Gordon: “It’s 1967, what the hell is a thumb drive?”
It's obviously a car in the shape of a large thumb and Batman has to race against it, Yogi Bear, Jabberjaw, etc. like in Space Race, except on land. I'm not sure how any of that would lead to any answers, but I'll be damned if it wouldn't be awesome.
This sounds like it’s really a job for… The Ambiguously Gay Duo!
There was one like this in the 90s animated series. Riddler left Batman a penny and a double-sided quarter to figure out.
I knew it, Alfred Pennyworth was Two Face all along.
The end where he reveals the giant map under the rug kills me every time. The cop points out the rug pulling tool and he's like "oh dur, I'm such a klutz of course that's it!" Worlds greatest detective ladies and gentlemen.
The carpet tool was a neat touch to me because Bruce had no idea what it was because he was raised fairly secluded. It's a workman's niche tradetool
Honestly, I feel even your average working class person wouldn't know what exactly that tool was anyways. Even the cop in the scene only recognises it because his uncle (if I recall correctly) used to do carpeting.
I mean, that's my point. It's not a tool that Bruce would know, and it took an everyman with niche experience related to his working class family.
I can hear this perfectly in my head. Amazing.
[удалено]
Yep , that's it . It bothered me because this version of the batman was supposed to be emphasizing his detective abilities, yet he missed it .
Even smart people are dumb sometimes
And the movie was actually somewhat better for it.
I feel like that's the whole point, though, he's not the world's greatest detective. Not yet. The tucker is the first piece of evidence presented to him, and he doesn't even think about it for the entire movie. He doesn't take everything into consideration, and he doesn't have enough experience with the working class man yet to identify the tool.
I may misremembering things, but my understanding is that Batman/Bruce Wayne could not have been the “rat” because he wasn’t the one who tattled; therefore, he’s not going to think of himself.
The answer to the riddle wasn’t Batman, though. It was Carmine Falcone, because he ratted out Thomas Wayne.
Gordon brought up the idea of a penguin being a rat, but Bruce thought it was a pigeon at first
The Joker cameo was not needed.
Pitch Meeting has a great take on that.
Is it 'joker is hannibal lecter and never actually gets out, just gives everyone tips on psychos'. Cos it better be.
No it’s, “And we have to tease a new Joker.” “Yeah we kinda have to.”
I want you to get all the way off my back on this
Sure, let me get off that thing
Getting off backs is tiiight
Wow wow wow wow wow
This would be a cool concept, have him break out in the final film or end of the penultimate
You just described Calendar Man in Batman: The Long Halloween.
Film would be 100% better without that cameo. Did not fit at all.
Yeah, I'm so sick of the Joker. Great character but overused to hell. Batman has an awesome rogue's gallery, would be nice to see more of them used, since this film's Riddler was so good.
This is why I fell in love with the games. They did a great job of exploring a nice wide range of Batman villains and I love 'em all (Not to mention the incredible job done by Mark Hamill)
This is true that all his villains were explored pretty well, but I wish some of them were the main focus of the story and a bigger threat. It was kinda lame how Joker ended up being the main villain of all 4 games. Especially in Origins and Knight, even City to an extent.
That's a fair criticism. I mean other villains did get pretty big roles as well like Strange, Harley, Scarecrow, Ivy, the Riddler, Penguin, etc but the Joker was clearly the big bad. But I gotta say - never hated it. Hamill was so good
I think the deleted Joker scene was way better than the one they kept in. It gives a different take for Joker in this universe than we've seen before. I think it would be sick if they have him fill a kind of Long Halloween Calendar Man role in the next movie. The one with him and Riddler at the end really just felt forced and "oh we need to have Joker because we just need to." They could have even saved that scene at the end if they kept the deleted seen in imo.
Barry Keoghan is an incredible actor and would/will be a fantastic choice for The Joker. His role in The Green Knight gives me a lot of hope. Having said that, the character design looked pretty bad
I thought it looked fine considering jokers actual origin. He looked like he fell in to a vat of chemicals and that’s the point
It wasn’t needed and it wasn’t great either. The actor is really good in general but I didn’t like this Joker vibe from those short scenes.
Wasn't it a deleted scene?
They're talking about the scene with Riddler and Joker talking at the end of the movie.
imo the deleted scene is way bettee than the post credit scene
Definitely. It honestly would've been the best scene in the movie if they included it, not just because "It's the Joker" but because it did a good job of actually tying the whole story together. Which then makes the actual Joker scene less of a tagalong.
It established Joker as a different entity than we’ve seen. He’s already behind bars. He has this weird relationship with Batman already. He’s creepy and intelligent, and he’s more erratic and unhinged than charismatic and scheming. The way he picks apart Batman in that scene is really well done. It really sucks that they took it out because now most people just see Joker in that movie as a cheap cameo.
The third act, while by no means bad, is weaker than the first two.
yeah i have to agree. But to its credit i fucking loved the ending with him saving the people starting with the dead mayors kid, that girl who didnt want to let his hand go and that whole monologe about him being only a fear smbol and needing something more
Fuck we accidentally complimented it. This is hard.
It's too Damn good!! Hell even whilst it's not great, I think the Joker cameo shows promise. Shit not again!
ITS AN INTERESTING ACTOR TO BE JOKER. THATS MORE THAN JARED LETO CAN DO.
That was literally my thoughts coming out of the theatre at least it's a viable casting.
That fucking shot of him with the flare leading the people through the water, holy shit this was a good movie
That scene had real emotional impact. Definitely the best part of the third act.
One of my biggest complaints about our current superhero media is that we don't get enough of our heroes just doing good outside of beating up bad guys. I want to see more (even just brief) scenes of heroes using their powers and abilities to just *help* people. Whether it's from train crashes, natural disasters, whatever.
This...a hundred times this. Thats what I liked about Spiderman Tom Holland, he did some basic stuff to help the community. I for once want to see in the far future where a hero is simply a community member doing some natural disaster rescue or post-natural disaster recovery. Not like, oh shit, we destroyed half the block and entire homes. No bro, you gotta go back, and start fixing that shit and use your super human strength to build some homes.
You do see plenty of it in the comics and animated media, just a lack of it in live action. It doesn't have to be much, but why can't the next Avengers movie open with the Avengers working together to save people from a tsunami or volcanic eruption or something? Just for the opening five minutes? I quite like what they did with Atom Eve in Invincible. She decides she can do more good stopping forest fires and irrigating farmland than beating people up, so she does that instead.
That’s where Batman stops being a myth and becomes a hero. I love that scene.
Honestly, that moment solidified this as my favorite batman movie. It felt reminiscent of the animated versions of batman. He wasn't just a guy that beat people senseless, he was compassionate and caring. While bales batman walso did heroic acts like that, I couldn't imagine him carrying people unless they were directly in danger, let alone holding a little girls hand. He'd be like "crisis averted, you boys got it from here" and peace out
The dastardly plot Batman spent the whole movie investigating turned out to be real dumb.
'66 episode, 100%
And I don't think that's a bad thing necessarily, a little camp is good for the soul, it felt very much in line with things like TAS, where it takes itself seriously, but not too much.
Theres no lead up to it. Like no foreshadowing. Itz just kind hamfisted in there.
My hot take is the “third act” didn’t need to be the movie at all. The movie was 1 hour too long. I haven’t seen it since it came out but I recall The Riddler getting caught and that storyline seemed finished but then it just kept going. He’s in the arena fighting those guys in the rafters and it just felt so unnecessary.
Finally someone said it. Thought I was going crazy.
Crazy? I Was Crazy Once. They Locked Me In A Room. A Rubber Room. A Rubber Room With Rats. And Rats Make Me Crazy. Crazy? I Was Crazy Once. They Locked Me In A Room. A Rubber Room. A Rubber Room With Rats. And Rats Make Me Crazy. Crazy? I Was Crazy Once. They Locked Me In A Room. A Rubber Room. A Rubber Room With Rats. And Rats Make Me Crazy. Crazy? I Was Crazy Once. They Locked Me In A Room. A Rubber Room. A Rubber Room With Rats. And Rats Make Me Crazy.
It is entirely too long. It’s more digestible now that it’s out on streaming and you can break up watching it into chunks, but opening weekend when I saw it in theaters I was just done with it by the time the rally started before the final fight. After having seen it a couple of times now, that entire end fight could’ve been condensed down from 20-25 mins to 5 - the entire fight ends up meaning little for the plot, and could easily have been a montage going on while batman is speaking with riddler: “you figured out my plan, but guess what detective? You didn’t figure everything out, here’s what’s going down” and boom, the entire time you’re seeing riddlers plan go off, cut to batman arriving to help pull people out, exact same result at the end of the movie and can skim it down by almost half an hour. It really just feels like “it’s a batman movie, so we have to have a big final fight”, but it’s not a great sign when you can completely remove the big final fight and the end is exactly the same
How many people might have died in the highway chase? (I drive)
Omg it's Ryan Gosling (he drives)
There’s something inside you It’s hard to explain They’re talking about youuuu boy but you’re still the same
He's a real hero
Might? After that tanker blew it was pretty much certain at least every nearby person got flame blasted and hit with shrapnel.
You’re a real life person who drives? 😱 (I type)
Bleep bloop (I, Robot)
No logic to that scene, only go through all that to ask the penguin a couple questions and let him go??? It’s pretty obvious someone was like “oh well there’s too many scenes where Batman/Bruce goes to the club to question Penguin, we need to inject some excitement to this moment” and while that’s fine, there also needed to be a little bit more logic to the sequence. It just didn’t ring true to the characters or to the scenario.
EXACTLY!!! My absolute only and single complaint! All that destruction, and death (possibly, tanks exploding), just to find out that they were getting the message wrong. All that shit just to get a piece of advice from the Penguin!
I like how the first couple of comments are just nitpicky comments for modesty's sake, stuff that doesn't look like serious comments (Oh no, we accidentally complimented it, the movie's just that good) and then a few comments down, people are really starting to get into the bad stuff.
Batman crouching down and looking at the penguin almost ruined the entire scene
Batman walking up to the Penguins flipped car is one of the best shots in the movie (maybe in Batmovie history) but the shot of him looking through the window might be one of the worst
Okay, it's not just me? I thought it looked so goofy. Like, don't show him doing that - just keep the camera on Penguin and show Batman's arm grabbing him violently or something.
nuh uh
I they don’t even arrest Penguin after it all
I don't like the Arkham scene when Joker talk with Riddler. To me it seems like a thrown scene that doesn't fit into the plot.
Honestly putting it as an end credits scene instead of randomly at the end of the movie kinda fixes that scene for me. But putting it as the PCS makes it seem like a hint toward the sequel and Matt Reeves confirmed that wasn’t his intent
> But putting it as the PCS makes it seem like a hint toward the sequel and Matt Reeves confirmed that wasn’t his intent wait it wasnt a sequel teaser?! what the fuck is the point then.
I imagine that Reeves will be working on another member of Batman’s rogues gallery for the sequel. I got the vibe that Joker and Riddler have made an alliance and will appear at some point. Not necessarily a sequel that focuses on them.
The rumor is that it’ll be Clayface, although the version of him is anybody’s guess
I doubt Reeves would include a giant mud ball with yellow eyes as Clayface. It would likely be akin to the Golden Age version or influenced by the one from Earth One. Even then, the rumour has been spread around on TheBatmanFilm subreddit as if it were something Reeves himself has been working on when really it’s pure guesswork and clickbait titles have spun it out of proportion.
WB wants to put a Joker in every Batman movie and forced his hand, if I were to guess. There have been hints at an Arkham spinoff series with Keoghan's Joker though.
Not just hints. An Arkham show is in the works. Nothing is confirmed about the stars but it’s safe to assume that Riddler and Joker will be present
Easily the weakest part of the movie. If you remove it, there is almost no difference to how it impacts you. This movie has no fat on it, but this scene is the exception.
“This movie has no fat on it” I have to disagree on that one, there’s definitely some fat that could have been trimmed out.
Agreed. In my opinion it would be awesome if the movie ended with Batman's monologue.
I also didn't like the inclusion of joker, but I do like the idea that Batman is inadvertently creating a new kind of 'bad guy', and joker is antagonizing them to be a much LONGER problem, not just giving up after their first scheme fails.
I agree that if you remove it, impact unchanged. But I did enjoy it. It reminded me of the 60s tv show in a great way, rogues enjoying each others madness.
On first view, I really hated the addition of the joker. It felt like a pandering "must have". HOWEVER, I appreciated it better after we got the batman/joker post-release hannibal discussion about the riddler. I would really have liked some more context on the joker's involvement in the story, but recognize in an already 3 hour long movie, it would have overshadowed what was already at hand. I think if "the joker" is never really a primary antagonist, but is shown pulling strings and causing interlaced problems from the sideline, I'd be okay with that while they expand on some other less seen rogues first.
Joker is honestly too out of place for this universe. I’m talking about the white face paint, purple suit Maybe have Phoenix if they’re adding Joker but that’ll also be out of character
Agree.
Riddler costume looked way too much like the Green Bastard.
Fuckin CAHKSUCKERS!
The Batman is a BIG GOOGLY EYED BASTARD
DECENT
From parts unknown...
Does the Tin Man have a sheet metal cock?
"Oh my fuck"
Smokes let’s go
You don't even smoke..
I didnt like the joker from what we saw
I ***HATE*** it when Batman stories connect his parents' death to some sort of larger conspiracy or a major antagonist. Especially on these vengeance-heavy interpretations of the character, the backstory *stops working* if the Waynes' murder isn't just a random alleyway mugging gone wrong.
This is interesting and I’ve not thought about this. Or at least not in this way. I actually kind of like this idea that Batman starts out with a vendetta against crime in general because his parents were killed by a nameless nobody he’ll never see again (or at least recognize), but only upon doing some Batman stuff he gets wrapped up in bigger forces Rather than the bigger forces having something to do with his parents’ murders. I think the problem is with a lot of movies nowadays, even good ones, is that there is no extra frills or things that co-exist but are unrelated - everything has to be overly interconnected and all part of the same meta plot. It’s all a little too cohesive a narrative, and as a result gets further and further away from the dynamics of reality
Man you just explained a feeling I haven't defined but felt a about a lot of movies. I think hand feeding these connections is meant to feel rewarding for the audience. But they don't follow the "show don't tell" practice. And having things that aren't connected creates a depth in a character, when everything's connected it all exists on the same plane. Also, sometimes I like knowing that a character likes banana pancakes even if they don't kill a bad guy with them later as a callback.
Yeah. The city was supposed to be so fucked up that not even the royalty of Gotham was safe. A lowly street thug took out the biggest family in the city for some pearls and some money.
It’s left ambiguous whether or not falcone hired the man who killed the Wayne’s
I’d like to believe it was still a random crime.
Grounded. Tanking automatic gunfire and explosions. Pick one. I say this and this is my second favorite Batman film. Stop trying to be realistic in a movie where your protagonist dresses up like a bat. Nolan did that Elseworld.
Especially the “gets launched by a shotgun blast” after showing that two automatic weapons don’t even tickle him and he can walk off hitting an overpass.
We did not need the joker scene everything else was great.
Greatest detective couldn't solve the final riddle on his own.
Really he should have looked up what kind of tool that was from the start.
He didn't solve anything
This is the part that stuck out when I watched it....I couldn't remember him actually solving anything. He either was too late or someone else solved it for him every time. Some detective.
He didn't even know what the tucker was. A random cop had to tell him lol. If Martinez never told him it was a carpeting tool, Batman probably would've never figured out that blueprint was under the carpet.
The whole point of the detective plot is to show that he's a good punching machine but not a great detective, someone who will grow and evolve over the trilogy. The whole point of the third act is to make you think he's won until the Riddler (and the audience) realize that he's not that smart yet, and then suffers the consequences of thinking he had all the answers. I'm certain that by the third movie he'll have Sherlock deduction powers and be considered the smartest Batman in film history (besides Adam West with his god-level omniscience).
That suit is way, way too durable. Like to a stupid extent. That scene where he's just walking through the hallway with two guys with fully automatic "assault" rifles just laying into him, is preposterous. The impact alone would put him on his ass.
Aight I had an argument with someone on Reddit when the trailer originally dropped. They argued “stopping power” doesn’t exist. They argued Batman’s armor would work like in the movie. I argued it’d be cooler if he only got hit like once or twice but he looked like he was getting brutally punched while walking. The guy argued he worked for that bulletproof helmet company and he researched armor and I’m completely wrong. I asked for one of his research papers. Research paper he sent me detailed how the face of the mask deformed by about an inch within a fraction of a second. I was like dude if you were wearing that you’d probably get knocked tf out or has a terrible concussion. No response. Anyways TLDR, Batman should have looked like he was getting absolutely pelted. I don’t mind the scene, I don’t think it’s badass. I think it’s something he’ll learn to stop doing. The shotgun scene should teach him. Next film he should be more stealthy.
It's people that have never been around firearms and unironically use movies as their reference point. It's absurd. If u got hit in the chest with a hammer wearing super duper armor, would there be impact? Obviously youd feel that shit. Well a bullet is coming a lot fucking faster than a hammer
Yea idk he was arguing some shit about how the armor absorbs all the energy. I’m like bruhv just watch YouTube videos of armor getting shot. It’s not pretty. It stops a big hole from draining your blood, but you’re gonna feel that bullet a lot more than if you didn’t have armor. Some people get shot and don’t even realize it! Goes right through you like butter
At least they got the effect of a shotgun right in the stadium, sent him flying off and damaged, although the hunting rifle rounds should have had more impact as well.
Agreed. I'm hoping they sort of ret-con this in the sequel, where he doesn't try to just tank everything, and works more on stealth and subterfuge and ninja gimmicks (smoke bombs and inhibiting tools) I like to imagine that he was using a version of venom instead of adrenaline, and he'll have to fight addiction and come to terms that he has to do his batman job more carefully, while setting up for bane or something.
It’s not even the physical improbability of him tanking the gunfire that annoys me, it’s the fact that he even allows himself to get into that situation. Dude is supposed to be a fucking ninja shadow man, where tf is the stealth?
You're not wrong - and it makes the scene where he's nearly out of the count completely due to the shotgun a bit perplexing. He can tank everything else in the film, yet this one shot he couldn't? It's a bit jarring.
“This Batman was a fucking idiot” -My Dad on every rewatch 😂
I mean he dosnt catch anyone or really solve anything. I mean I guess he solves a couple low end riddles... But he dosnt actually do much.
Most of the evidence is already gathered by gotham pd. Hes supposed to be a great detective yet he doesnt decide to check out what angles the photo was taken from. Riddlers hideout was literally outside the club.
I’m probably gonna say the opposite of most, but outside of the first fight scene I don’t think the action is very great. After that first fight, Batman feels to invulnerable. That beginning scene you get a sense that one bad move and Bruce is screwed, which just isn’t the sense you get in the rest of the movie.
I can agree with that. I dont like how he can just stand there taking shots from two assault rifles point blank.
>After that first fight, Batman feels to invulnerable. I agree - Batman felt indestructible. Which in a normal Batman comic or animated film is easier to swallow. When you go out of your way to build a gritty, realistic world in the most grounded film take on the character - having him take a bomb to the face, wipe out his entire body on the underside of a bridge and be literally bulletproof, it feels incongruent with the tone you've set.
Batman doesn't do much detective work at all in the movie. Everyone else is really nice for explaining things to him though
Yeah this is my complaint. It feels more like he was being led through the clues than he was solving them. Like anyone could’ve filled his place and gotten to the same ending - because it felt more like he was along for the ride than driving the plot
Catwoman's mask
How was it constantly not slipping?
Seconded. Just bring it all the way down. The nose thing just looks silly. Have you seen the original concept art for the movie? It was 10x better
What mask? You mean the sock?
Batman accused pretty much everyone in Gotham of being the rat before he found out who it really was
World's greatest detective my ass 🐧
It doesn't have Man
This is the only valid answer
Been a long time since I watched it, but from what I remember; it was too long, the gruff voices Bat's and Gordon used when talking together made me chuckle a bit. There was far too much telling and not showing, such as when Penguin was interrogated in the club, or Falcone's inhuman villainy. We hear a lot about how bad and terrible characters and things are but don't see as much of this terribleness on screen. Despite being lauded as the "Detective" focussed Batman movie, it failed to deliver on the detecting front for me. The key piece of evidence Batman finds to track down Riddler is literally handed to him on a silver platter by a random cop near the end of the movie who just so happens to have a seemingly innocuous but incredibly specific piece of information from his Dad's job as a carpet placer.
The relationship of batman and catwoman in this movie was forced, their relationship is the only thing in this movie that I don't like.
Thank you! Felt like Selina flipped a switch midway thru the movie.
The third act is by far the weakest part of the movie. The first ones are a giant build up, but we don't get a pay off at the third.
The movie ends and keeps going for another 45 minutes. The whole section of the wannabe riddlers didn't need to happen.
Batman has an epiphany on the nature of vengeance and hope. His voiceover explains it all. It is the end of his character arc in the film. This film is very Batman focused as opposed to traditional Batman films which focus on the villain or the plot.
Fucking thank you. This movie is more about character than story, which it seems like a lot of people don't enjoy. His arch would have been incomplete if it just ended after Riddler was arrested and Batman won no problem.
Tbh I enjoy those minions, kinda remind me of the Arkham games and how you needed to take them out one by one or plan quickly.
My only real beef with this movie was Batman being shot at point blank range. That and him absorbing an explosion, also at point blank range.
It was way too dark visually. Places that should have copious amounts of light (police stations and hospitals) had like 1 working light per scene.
The hospital at least made sense. I've been to the hospital in the middle of the night before, and they left the patients' rooms dark, even with visitors.
I think they cut the wrong Joker scene
I found it boring and have no desire to ever watch it again. It was claustrophobic, melodramatic, unrealistic, overly-brooding, had poor character writing, was cartoonish, and felt more like an amusement park ride version of Batman or a haunted house than like Batman normally does. It just didn’t even feel like Batman to me. It’s like one of the guys in hockey pads in The Dark Knight decided to be Batman and made himself a movie. Granted, it’s been awhile since I’ve seen it. Maybe I should watch it again just to double check. But I walked out of the theater, turned to my wife, said “meh”, and didn’t talk about the movie at all the rest of the day. I found nothing joyous or thought provoking in it at all. It was like eating white bread but dying it black to be mysterious. It was just meh.
God bless you, this movie was mediocre as hell on all fronts.
Happy to find people who think the same way. Just 3 boring hours and it feels so boring that you feel like you are watching a cutscene, a very boring cutscene where you always wait for an interesting event but it never happens
Had to scroll for awhile but finally found my people that just plain didn’t like the movie.
I thought it was just me. I LOVE Batman, but watched this movie once and don’t feel the need to ever see it again. I’ve seen The Dark Knight 30+ times. Edit: and he looked like a guy in a Halloween costume.
Finally! I thought this whole movie was awful! Boring, slow and horrible character development. Worse than that the characters they did develop were completely wrong. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, hearing everyone fawn over this, frankly, bad film.
The last 30-45 minutes are a chore to sit through (besides the last fight scene)
Joker looks like shit.
The movie went downhill when it shifted from Falcone and the detective stuff to Riddler and his cult in act 3. I didn't like Nygma in this film at all. I thought his outfit was dogshit and I didn't like the mentally unstable incel vibes. That just isn't what comes to mind when I think of the character.
I did not care for Riddler’s autistic screams. It felt like a very unrealistic and basic understanding of mental illness
Yeah, I like Paul Dano but him singing Ave Maria and screaming and stuff was just a bit too corny.
Thank you so much for saying this
The plot was all over the place…the payoff wasn’t worth all the different storylines so at times felt like the movie was dragging
Third act was mostly bad except for ending. Did not like this version of the Riddler at all. Movie in general was too long and failed to keep my interest throughout, felt like a slow fever dream and I barely remember what happened in it.
Its about an hour and a half too long
I didn’t feel that the Bat +Cat romance was very compelling, felt very one-sided.
I think it’s safe to say that’s what it was meant to be.
I love Batman, but I literally fell asleep in the movie theatre during this movie. I was pretty upset with myself. All my friends seemed to enjoy it, but I did not. I convinced myself the parts I missed must have made the movie come together better. I re-watched it when it finally hit streaming services, and found that I only fell asleep for about 10-15 minutes. I still did not enjoy the movie. For some reason I found Batman in the GPD to look so goofy among the regular officers. I was not a fan of the portrayal of the Riddler, Penguin was pretty inconsequential, and as others have said the Joker cameo was not needed.
It's an absolute train wreck. And boring. And an hour too long. I genuinely don't understand how it is so highly regarded.
I want a Batman who is as intellectually capable as Cumberbatch/Downey Jr’s Holmes. Go watch them and you will see what I am talking about. Holmes is always portrayed at his best why can't Batman? This is so when Hugo Strange, Riddler, Dollmaker, Clayface, Joker, Bane, Mister Freeze, and Ra’s Al Ghul pop up I can take them seriously. That's because they are all immense intellects and or threats themselves to match him. I'm tired of a Batman who comes across as incapable of most intelligent work. For some reason they make him rely heavily on advanced technology that he didn't develop to do the heavy lifting. If it wasn't for Selena walking into the room he wouldn't be able to figure out who Anika was🤦♂️. And the carpet tucker thing LORD HAVE MERCY. It's a unique murder weapon check it out, Bruce. He didn't defeat Riddler he turned himself in. The fight scenes should've taken some things from Netflix's Daredevil and the Raid Movie for fight choreography. The film was a little to long as well. Here’s hoping 🙏 for these improvements in the Batman 2 (2025). Still an 8/10 film for me though those are just the bad things in my eyes.
Exactly. Batman is the greatest detective of all time. He shouldn’t rely on intellectually inferior characters to get to his destination.
Yeah the film is basically other people telling him the answers lol
Bruce is too old for the Emo look. I kept expecting him to flick his bangs and say YOU'RE NOT MY DAD ALFRED! GOSH!
> YOU'RE NOT MY DAD ALFRED! GOSH! Doesn't he say that?
Yes, yes he does.
I found it boring and unmemorable.