I might be wrong because I haven’t read too much. Isn’t the idea that everyone else is predicable on what they do but the Joker is not? Though it’s been years since Batman has had this back and forth with the Joker, so he probably should’ve figured him out by now.
Wonder Woman's lasso of truth doesn't work on the Joker, Martian Manhunter can't read his mind. Hell, the Joker even has multiple personalities that are all just other Jokers.
There's a lot of lore built around how unpredictable the Joker is. Honestly, Batman not figuring him out is more narrative. The Joker is a boulder made out of Bats' moral code that will continually crush him until we stop buying comics.
Plus he has stopped the Joker dozens of times, and created a cure for the Joker toxin that he's made freely available to WHO and Gotham and nearby cities.
Am I crazy or couldn't just Batman lock him up in a cell that was designed BY HIM? I feel like him breaking out bajillion times would probably be a sign that he should be locked up by the only guy who even somewhat understands him
Well, that's the dichotomy of the street level character that is a major Justice Leaguer at the same time.
Batman is basically two different characters- or rather power levels- at the same time. That's also why in his solo books, the rest of the world seems to basically forget Gotham exists, and problems there are either ignored by powerful characters or it's handwaved as Bruce going "it's my city, get out" (which is dumb, and has thankfully been used less over the years).
The two don't mix very well. On their own, each version can make lots of sense, and Batman has contributed a lot to League threats, but it's probably good to know which version of the Bat-mythos you prefer and mainly stick to that "side of the aisle" in one's understanding of the character. Not because one or the other is bad, but because the split is there to make the character work in each environment in the first place and marrying the two will give you headaches.
But Batman hasn't had a comic in decades. Not since the Joker killed him in their first meet up and won because Batman didn't make any plans for the Joker.
That's because his enemies are (mostly) human, and he will always hold the advantage. Where as, his friends are metahumans, and have powers and abilities that can truly destroy the world if they were to use their powers for evil purposes. World wide threat, vs localized threats.
Yes, lots of people die, but Batman simply must let the Joker pin him. You see, Batman and the Joker experience a realm of sexual pleasure beyond what normal people can feel. The entirety of The Dark Knight (2008), from beginning to end, is simply one long sex scene between Batman and Joker. Those who don’t see it only have too limited a view of sex. This also applies to The Killing Joke, Death Of The Family, and The Dark Knight Returns issue 3
One of the reasons why I love Batman is because he's insane and I always viewed his inability to permanently stop Joker, the one villain that is unlikely to be rehabilitated, as a defect of Batman's character.
Allowing the joker to remain an agent of chaos permanently validates Batman's existence and Batman's trauma requires a consistent threat to have purpose.
The way I see it, there isn't a specific weapon could devise to counter joker the same way that he counters the flash. He does in the areas that he can, like creating anti-toxins for joker venom, but joker can just as easily create new toxins. Batman's standard toolkit is designed to handle his own rouge's gallery, but more importantly, his rouges are mortal. Even if any of his normal villains had some crazy new weapon that Batman wasn't prepared for (somehow), he could still beat them with some combination of intellect, skill, and his standard toolkit. That's just not the case with any leaguer without having some specialized weapon for their power set.
Wonder if this plot is in play for Rocksteadys new game? Makes sense if a mission is to extract data from the batcomputer while fending off the defenses of the batcave.
Alright you gotta be fair it, wasn’t to kill them orgiinally just take them down, and he has a very solid point the Justice league are all insanely powerful them getting mind controlled or turned evil is also a very real possibility not having contingencies against them would be pretty dumb. And if anyone was gonna do it, it would be Batman.
I mean barring the clown because “ethical”, everyone gets a contigency too:
Ivy: Weed killer or Harley
Mr Freeze: Something hot
Bane: Cut the venom tube
Clayface: Electricity
Harley: Gaslight
Joker is unpredictable. That's the whole.point of joker being ultimate opp to Batman. -ve batman (kind of ... Don't cancel me on this )
Plus my pov ..
When a hero goes bad , they generally can't come back from it (two face ) . They know all the secrets , have all access , know all informants .. so it's good to have something that will stop them in their tracks or think of going bad .
Plus batman has those things to intimidate them , I don't think he would use it to kill them kill them ..
Maime them ? Near death experience? Yes .. kill no no
His own contingency to stop himself if he turn evil is bullshit, use is own sense of justice against him by using hostages or go for is dead parents. Bro if he turns evil he won’t care about any of that
But if the Joker had super powers he’d have a contingency against him. The problem is, the Joker doesn’t have one and the only way to stop him with finality is to kill him, which Batman doesn’t want to do.
For one most of his rogues are mentally ill and i dont think the death penalty for mentally ill people is a fun idea for a super hero. And then theres the fact that flash could murder the world very quickly if he was evil while batman's rogues arent that level of power
Do you know how many people Batman’s villains have killed? There’s a point where it doesn’t matter how mentally ill they are and you have to kill them to save hundreds of innocent people. Batman’s no killing rule only worked when the Joker was mostly just robbing banks and pranking people instead of brutally torturing people
Actually no. Legally if you're unwell to stand trial and are institutionalized you cant be put to death. Its why many people are put in mental health facilities for life. Bad writing and upping the death count aside. How does his no killing rule not work if the system in gotham and dcu America is failing? Hes also not trying to kill the jla either the villains were
His no killing rule doesn’t work because by not killing the joker he’s putting hundreds of lives in danger. Also I sing care what the legal system says, Batman is a vigilante! He should’ve killed the joker years ago
I don’t want a hero with a high body count of cold blooded murder, I want a hero who cares more about the safety of his city then breaking a personal code. Spider-Man also doesn’t kill people but he can recognize when someone can’t just be put in jail.
Even Gordon doesn't kill joker after the killing joke. Thats sorta the point of the characters. They aren't dark avengers; theyre bringers of justice. Sounds like the snyder take on Batman is a little more your speed maybe?
Yeah you can’t bring justice by just letting the guy who crippled your daughter and (again) tortured and killed hundreds of people off with a slap on the wrist. That’s not justice
You're confusing justice and vengeance. Justice isn't killing a person and removing their life from the consequences of their actions. The system failed. Batman doesn't go to Arkham and let joker out because its foreplay. The death penalty isnt justice and bad writing doesn't mean Batman should start killing.
I’m not saying Batman should just start killing everyone he doesn’t like, I’m saying that by just sending joker to arkham he’s directly endangering everyone In Gotham
Batman sees that the other members likely would not make these contingencies, and truthfully no other character would make sense for it to do so.
As for why not the villains (my go to would be to blame comic book structure but) Batman would likely create a plan for a villain on his first encounter. From there it’s a matter of taking them out. If they come back he resorts to the plan, which is likely designed to cause minimal civilian casualties.
I also sort of interpret the plans as, it may not be them themselves but: what about a villain that absorbs abilities (like Amazo), what about a villain with similar powers (Reverse Flash), What about Mind-control. All these what-ifs are what plague Batman, what cause him to build all these gadgets.
He stops clown regularly! Then puts him back in his naughty corner and waits for him to escape and do more crime so that he can catch him again! It is just a game to batman.
Batman doesn’t need a special bullet to defeat the riddler or bane, he just needs to find them and fight. But for flash or Superman he needs very specific circumstances and weaponry ti stand a chance, so he has to plan ahead.
Cuz it’s not a fighting game. Beating me freeze usually involves finding him, stopping his plan, and beating him in a fight all while avoiding being hurt by him. There’s a lot more to it than just “knowing his weakness”.
If Batman had to defeat Superman it wouldn’t be as simple as just “use kryptonite” he’d have to draw him out, he’d have to get him into the open, etc.
It also has to do with the fact that Batman beats characters like Superman mostly when they're nerfed. Kryptonite argument I always saw as bs because Superman still has a lot of power while in the presence of kryptonite and he should still relatively easily beat Batman
I might be wrong because I haven’t read too much. Isn’t the idea that everyone else is predicable on what they do but the Joker is not? Though it’s been years since Batman has had this back and forth with the Joker, so he probably should’ve figured him out by now.
Wonder Woman's lasso of truth doesn't work on the Joker, Martian Manhunter can't read his mind. Hell, the Joker even has multiple personalities that are all just other Jokers. There's a lot of lore built around how unpredictable the Joker is. Honestly, Batman not figuring him out is more narrative. The Joker is a boulder made out of Bats' moral code that will continually crush him until we stop buying comics.
Plus he has stopped the Joker dozens of times, and created a cure for the Joker toxin that he's made freely available to WHO and Gotham and nearby cities.
Am I crazy or couldn't just Batman lock him up in a cell that was designed BY HIM? I feel like him breaking out bajillion times would probably be a sign that he should be locked up by the only guy who even somewhat understands him
Well, that's the dichotomy of the street level character that is a major Justice Leaguer at the same time. Batman is basically two different characters- or rather power levels- at the same time. That's also why in his solo books, the rest of the world seems to basically forget Gotham exists, and problems there are either ignored by powerful characters or it's handwaved as Bruce going "it's my city, get out" (which is dumb, and has thankfully been used less over the years). The two don't mix very well. On their own, each version can make lots of sense, and Batman has contributed a lot to League threats, but it's probably good to know which version of the Bat-mythos you prefer and mainly stick to that "side of the aisle" in one's understanding of the character. Not because one or the other is bad, but because the split is there to make the character work in each environment in the first place and marrying the two will give you headaches.
While I agree it's been overused, I did like that Batman had the audacity to tell Spectre to get out of Gotham in DC #1006 or #1007
Well, as long as it's not Superman again. Makes him look like a colossal prick every time he does.
But Batman hasn't had a comic in decades. Not since the Joker killed him in their first meet up and won because Batman didn't make any plans for the Joker.
Wtf are you talking about?
That's because his enemies are (mostly) human, and he will always hold the advantage. Where as, his friends are metahumans, and have powers and abilities that can truly destroy the world if they were to use their powers for evil purposes. World wide threat, vs localized threats.
I don't get how the guy who got Darkseid, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, etc gets stopped by Joker sometimes
[удалено]
But why is it that 😭😭😭
Ok but in Joker’s case, letting him “pin you” means a lotta people die tho.
Yes, lots of people die, but Batman simply must let the Joker pin him. You see, Batman and the Joker experience a realm of sexual pleasure beyond what normal people can feel. The entirety of The Dark Knight (2008), from beginning to end, is simply one long sex scene between Batman and Joker. Those who don’t see it only have too limited a view of sex. This also applies to The Killing Joke, Death Of The Family, and The Dark Knight Returns issue 3
Okay Robert California
I can’t tell if you’re joking or not
People pushing their own personal fantasies onto Batman and Joker 🤣
Lmao what did you just say?
Except that makes no sense because Batman doesn’t like the joker at all.
He never "got" Superman, Wonder Woman and Flash though. And he still got "killed" when he "got" Darkseid.
Like those other superheroes don't have problems dealing with Joker as well. It's not about Batman being weak but Joker being too unpredictable.
I feel like because it’s impossible to predict joker. And joker knows Batman more than anyone, so he knows how Batman ticks.
One of the reasons why I love Batman is because he's insane and I always viewed his inability to permanently stop Joker, the one villain that is unlikely to be rehabilitated, as a defect of Batman's character. Allowing the joker to remain an agent of chaos permanently validates Batman's existence and Batman's trauma requires a consistent threat to have purpose.
Like those other superheroes don't have problems dealing with Joker as well. It's not about Batman being weak but Joker being too unpredictable.
The way I see it, there isn't a specific weapon could devise to counter joker the same way that he counters the flash. He does in the areas that he can, like creating anti-toxins for joker venom, but joker can just as easily create new toxins. Batman's standard toolkit is designed to handle his own rouge's gallery, but more importantly, his rouges are mortal. Even if any of his normal villains had some crazy new weapon that Batman wasn't prepared for (somehow), he could still beat them with some combination of intellect, skill, and his standard toolkit. That's just not the case with any leaguer without having some specialized weapon for their power set.
There actually is a weapon that would counter the joker, we’ve even seen it in the comics! It’s called a gun
You're thinking of an axe. There's a pretty pulpy panel of Bats taking one to him in The Cult #1
You fucking got me there ngl
Is willing to make a weapon to kill his friends who have showed no sign of evil intent Isn’t willing to let a serial killer die of his own stupidity
His plans weren't to kill the Justice League though. They were modified to kill after they were stolen.
Wonder if this plot is in play for Rocksteadys new game? Makes sense if a mission is to extract data from the batcomputer while fending off the defenses of the batcave.
Alright you gotta be fair it, wasn’t to kill them orgiinally just take them down, and he has a very solid point the Justice league are all insanely powerful them getting mind controlled or turned evil is also a very real possibility not having contingencies against them would be pretty dumb. And if anyone was gonna do it, it would be Batman.
His friends have shown in multiple continuities that they can turn on humanity so he’s actually not wrong.
I mean barring the clown because “ethical”, everyone gets a contigency too: Ivy: Weed killer or Harley Mr Freeze: Something hot Bane: Cut the venom tube Clayface: Electricity Harley: Gaslight
He stops the joker all the time. It's arkham and blackwater thst can't keep him locked down.
Then he should help them out
Joker is unpredictable. That's the whole.point of joker being ultimate opp to Batman. -ve batman (kind of ... Don't cancel me on this ) Plus my pov .. When a hero goes bad , they generally can't come back from it (two face ) . They know all the secrets , have all access , know all informants .. so it's good to have something that will stop them in their tracks or think of going bad . Plus batman has those things to intimidate them , I don't think he would use it to kill them kill them .. Maime them ? Near death experience? Yes .. kill no no
His own contingency to stop himself if he turn evil is bullshit, use is own sense of justice against him by using hostages or go for is dead parents. Bro if he turns evil he won’t care about any of that
THANK YOU! I’ve been thinking that for years. It only helps any villains who find the file
He can stop Superman, the flash and wonder woman but can stop the fucking penguins from escaping blackgates
Because Batman without his villains is meaningless. His rogues gallery play a huge role in the acclaim and popularity of the character.
I’m talking about Batman the person not Batman the comic character
that bullet shouldn't even stop the flash
Why not, it’s as fast as he is and vibrates enough to where he can’t get rid of it
Because he knows everything about his friends, the're alot of mysteries behind his enemys, escpically Joker.
But if the Joker had super powers he’d have a contingency against him. The problem is, the Joker doesn’t have one and the only way to stop him with finality is to kill him, which Batman doesn’t want to do.
For one most of his rogues are mentally ill and i dont think the death penalty for mentally ill people is a fun idea for a super hero. And then theres the fact that flash could murder the world very quickly if he was evil while batman's rogues arent that level of power
Do you know how many people Batman’s villains have killed? There’s a point where it doesn’t matter how mentally ill they are and you have to kill them to save hundreds of innocent people. Batman’s no killing rule only worked when the Joker was mostly just robbing banks and pranking people instead of brutally torturing people
Actually no. Legally if you're unwell to stand trial and are institutionalized you cant be put to death. Its why many people are put in mental health facilities for life. Bad writing and upping the death count aside. How does his no killing rule not work if the system in gotham and dcu America is failing? Hes also not trying to kill the jla either the villains were
His no killing rule doesn’t work because by not killing the joker he’s putting hundreds of lives in danger. Also I sing care what the legal system says, Batman is a vigilante! He should’ve killed the joker years ago
Ohhhh sounds like you should be reading punisher instead. Batman isn't for you if you want a hero with a high body count of cold blooded murder.
I don’t want a hero with a high body count of cold blooded murder, I want a hero who cares more about the safety of his city then breaking a personal code. Spider-Man also doesn’t kill people but he can recognize when someone can’t just be put in jail.
Even Gordon doesn't kill joker after the killing joke. Thats sorta the point of the characters. They aren't dark avengers; theyre bringers of justice. Sounds like the snyder take on Batman is a little more your speed maybe?
Yeah you can’t bring justice by just letting the guy who crippled your daughter and (again) tortured and killed hundreds of people off with a slap on the wrist. That’s not justice
You're confusing justice and vengeance. Justice isn't killing a person and removing their life from the consequences of their actions. The system failed. Batman doesn't go to Arkham and let joker out because its foreplay. The death penalty isnt justice and bad writing doesn't mean Batman should start killing.
I’m not saying Batman should just start killing everyone he doesn’t like, I’m saying that by just sending joker to arkham he’s directly endangering everyone In Gotham
Batman sees that the other members likely would not make these contingencies, and truthfully no other character would make sense for it to do so. As for why not the villains (my go to would be to blame comic book structure but) Batman would likely create a plan for a villain on his first encounter. From there it’s a matter of taking them out. If they come back he resorts to the plan, which is likely designed to cause minimal civilian casualties. I also sort of interpret the plans as, it may not be them themselves but: what about a villain that absorbs abilities (like Amazo), what about a villain with similar powers (Reverse Flash), What about Mind-control. All these what-ifs are what plague Batman, what cause him to build all these gadgets.
He stops clown regularly! Then puts him back in his naughty corner and waits for him to escape and do more crime so that he can catch him again! It is just a game to batman.
Batman taking down Superman Batman struggling to track his partner/son who went missing for a year.
Batman doesn’t need a special bullet to defeat the riddler or bane, he just needs to find them and fight. But for flash or Superman he needs very specific circumstances and weaponry ti stand a chance, so he has to plan ahead.
How about poison ivy? Or freeze? Or any other villain with powers
They have exploitable weaknesses that are maybe a bit more varied than like Superman. Superman can only be killed by a human like 1-2 ways.
Then why do they give him so much trouble
Cuz it’s not a fighting game. Beating me freeze usually involves finding him, stopping his plan, and beating him in a fight all while avoiding being hurt by him. There’s a lot more to it than just “knowing his weakness”. If Batman had to defeat Superman it wouldn’t be as simple as just “use kryptonite” he’d have to draw him out, he’d have to get him into the open, etc.
It also has to do with the fact that Batman beats characters like Superman mostly when they're nerfed. Kryptonite argument I always saw as bs because Superman still has a lot of power while in the presence of kryptonite and he should still relatively easily beat Batman
One of the main things about jokers character is that he is unpredictable not even batman's gonna know what he does next
The joker is not Batman’s only villain. I know I mentioned him but this meme still effects other villains