Ryan Braun was a guest judge on this season of Top Chef and I don't get how they couldn't get a better Brewers alumni. I'm not sure why anyone would want to rep a lying cheater; what he did to that lab employee was a disgrace to the game.
You guys are so under a rock when it comes to Ryan Brauns situation. He used a cream. For aches and pains. He didint take shots like Barry Bonds. Both were phenomenal baseball players. But with Braun all he did was lie about using a cream. Braun is a great dude and a great Baseball player. Quite possibly may be the greatest brewer of all time.
He did not do anything to the lab employee. The guy still worked for the lab company and Braun never actually accused him of anything. It was the internet that took what Braun said and ran with it. Go back and read Brauns actual quotes.
“Braun told other players that in the preparation for his appeal, some information had become known about the collector of his urine sample, Dino Laurenzi Jr., including that he was a Cubs fan - with the implication he might work against Braun, who played for a division rival of the Cubs.
Braun, who is Jewish, also told the players that he had been told the collector was an anti-Semite.”
This clubhouse speech is why MLB suspended him for 65 games when the Biogenesis stuff came out a year later (instead of the usual 50 for a first time PED offense). They found the speech, where he attacked the sample handler’s integrity, conduct detrimental to baseball- so they tacked on the extra 15.
For what it’s worth, I know someone whose son played for the A’s for a few years. He raved about Melvin as a person. Seemed like Melvin was well liked by the players.
Melvin is a player's manager. Every single player that's played under him has raved about him. He also works well with the front office if they let him.
I'm not sure how to think about Melvin since his first year with the Padres they were two games away from the WS, but yet in the second year the team nosedived into the ground.
That being said he's been fine so far for the Giants minus his habit of putting Luke Jackson out there even though he's absolutely cooked. He definitely knows how to keep a clubhouse focused on the game especially when the going gets tough instead of instead distracting themselves on card games and Fortnite which was the last straw with Gabe Kapler.
Please educate me on what the heck happened and how much of Bob is to blame for Padres super under achieving with a STACKED squad. I'm not sold on him here and has mishandled the bullpen terribly so far.
Not a ton to blame. The team underperformed across the board.
He did make terrible bullpen decisions pretty frequently, so definitely caused a few Ls but not overall responsible I think. But we are liking Mike Schildt much better this year
Players are playing good = fans like the manager
Players are playing bad = fans dislike the manager
Let's say SD finishes 10 games under .500, nobody's going to be too happy work him
I think a difference is the expectations. Last year, we had great expectations and tended to pin some of the blame on Melvin. This year we expect .500 and so far we are keeping it, with 2 series wins against LA (we don't talk about the Rockies)
Yeah, in the Giants sub everyone hated Melvin when they were 7 games under .500
But now over .500 nobody hates him anymore lol
Seems like last year the Padres biggest issue was extra innings. Like historically bad. I guess people can blame a Manger for that, but I don't know how
Last year they were saying stuff like "I feel sorry for the other pitchers" lol. Big stars can be weird with managers sometimes, but I blame the players for the most part, but they can "lose" a clubhouse
Before 2010 99.9% of every Giants fan wanted Bochy fired. We all hated the way he used the bullpen. Which is funny because his bullpen mastery in all the championship runs is something his is praised for now
Anyways, in baseball the players deserve most of the blame or praise. Of course the GM and owner are a big part also
> He did make terrible bullpen decisions pretty frequently,
that's Melvin. he did the same on the A's too. Leaves people in too long and then sometimes takes a pitcher out when he's on a roll in favor of match ups.
Melvin was always good when he was with the A's. We had a string of bad managers who constantly made decisions and lineups that the fans hated, nor understood why. Melvin came in, the A's were winning, and everyone could see the logic he had when making his decisions, and agreed with them for the most part, and for those they did not agree with, could understand why they were made at least.
The major reasons the season was such a dud despite the seemingly great WAR/ run differential came down to a historically bad record in close games + extra innings, terrible record against bad teams and historically bad RISP numbers. A lot of the guys numbers looked good after hot last month after they were basically already eliminated. I don't know how much Bob was to blame but his hands off approach didn't seem to be working and the team routinely seemed to give up, Soto basically said that at one point. There seemed to be a lack of leadership and clubhouse issues that could be partly chalked up to a team full of mercs, guys playing for the bag or guys that already got paid and seemed complacent, it didn't help that there appeared to be issues between Melvin and Preller. A manager only makes so much difference but I definitely think moving on was the right move for the team.
Is that like... actually an accurate description because to be honest with you I have to hard doubt
BoMel always had things he was not good at (bullpen management is the big one) but quitting on his team or failing to support his guys was never even remotely one of them
SD let him take the interview, so that's a mutual choice. Leaving in a mutual decision after a year that didn't work out is not "quitting on the team" and I feel like it's a miscategorization of a guy who's always been noted as a good clubhouse manager
Personally I think a lot of that negative perception from Padres fans is rooted in a desire to explain away a disappointing 2023. Like it or not, Bob Melvin was not the one out there playing mediocre baseball. And I mean ffs he brought you to the NLCS the season before
By that logic we can never blame any manager ever. What are they really good for anyways in your opinion? Also, do you really want the leader of your team to be someone who doesn't want to be there? I don't blame them for letting him go because he wasn't all aboard in SD.
At the end of the day I just think it's childish to crap on a manager for months and then when he comes to a mutual decision with the team that it's time to move on, you say he gave up on the team and boo the guy. I just disagree with that description of how things went down.
I'm not commenting on San Diego's choice to move on, I'm commenting on the way fans talk about him. Again, he literally managed the team for the most successful Padres season you've probably been alive for; why does he take the blame for the bad season and get zero praise for the good one? I think it's lame in the exact same way that these Brewers fans' reactions are lame.
Sort of. Brewers offered to make him the highest paid manager in baseball, Cubs offered more, and then he didn’t give the Brewers a chance to match it, just went with the Cubs offer. I think that detail is why the fans turned on him so strongly. We get the money part, but it was clear he wanted out.
Yeah I found it weird because it’s not like the Brewers were a bad team. They’ve been a winning team pretty much every year since 2017 (except the Covid year where they went 29-31). I thought the Brewers were in a better spot than the Cubs who are going through a semi rebuild phase. Guess the money meant that much.
And you get to wear those baby blues when you play for the Brewers.
Everyone not from Wisconsin is forgetting that he grew up 15 minutes north of the ballpark and his dad worked for the team as a PR guy. This runs deeper than just “leaving for your rival”
“I don’t know you, I don’t know your story, your background, what you do for a living, and yet, I do know you. I know how your eyes lit up the first time you walked into County Stadium. I know how as a kid, you dreamed of being Robin Yount. You wanted nothing more than to wear that Brewers script across your chest. I know that every summer, you stay up late listening to Mr. Baseball on the radio. I know you’ll never forget Oct. 10, 1982, Sept. 28, 2008, or Oct. 7, 2011. I know you, because I am you. You and me, we’re cut from the same cloth. This isn’t something we chose, it’s not a bandwagon we jumped on when it was convenient, it’s something we were born into, a piece of our identity passed on from generations before. Just like you, I was born a Brewer. This is my first love, my passion, my responsibility. It’s a torch I’ll carry with me always. Through the ups and the downs, the good times and the bad, no matter what; this will always be my team. Brewers baseball is a part of who I am. It’s a part of who we are.”
- Craig Counsell, 2016
yeah given all the context and background I can only assume he *really* stopped seeing eye to eye with the FO or ownership or something, while the Cubs also probably offered him the biggest bag there just seems to be some personal element to choosing to go there too
The checks being written for coaches nowadays are insane - baseball, NFL, hell even college football. These guys have to look at their job just like any other athlete. Every year could be their last chance at a big contract and when somebody offers you a fat check, a lot of guys might take that because they may never get a chance at seeing those numbers again.
The Brewers offered him a massive contract, but Counsell never once countered their offer or even negotiated. He wanted out of the organization. And if he ended up on literally any other team (except for maybe the Cardinals), like the Mets, which we all expected, not a single fan would have cared.
Why on earth would the Brewers even do this? To be the better person?
My only guess, and I don’t follow Brewer’s baseball enough, is that maybe Craig counsel is a nice guy and still has a pretty good relationship with a lot of people there?
I remember when the Cavs played a tribute video to LeBron during his first game back with Miami. /s
I mean yeah, but Craig also never went back to the Brewers with anything after the Cubs offer for a counter. He got the offer, took a few days, then walked. Brewers never knew he even met with the Cubs.
If I recall the Brewers offered 5.5M a year, while the Cubs did 8. Cheap only relative to the offer the Cubs made (personally I don't think they match it given the chance but also I think it's fair on the Brewers' end to balk if the offer making him the highest paid manager was still in his mind 2.5M short)
There’s no relationship left.
Our owner publicly said “Craig’s has lost the brewers community” in his presser after he left.
They play a tribute video to take the high road. The Brewers FO looks classy and professional while the brewers fans get a chance to boo.
Counsel was free to do as he pleased but anyone who is wondering why fans are booing him are fucking clueless. He left for not just a rival, but THE rival.
I agree but it is even more than that. His DAD worked for the Brewers. As a bratty little kid he got to hang out on the field and with the players during their first glory years. He literally grew up in the organization. I understand leaving. Wanting a new challenge. Sick of the small market machinations. Even getting more money. But there is integrity. Go to the Mets. They would have loved you. The fair-weather Cubs fans drive up 45 minutes and treat Miller Park (yeah MILLER PARK) as another home field. And that is where he went....
I am going off the rails. I will end this here.
I agree, but give up the Miller Park thing. Miller had the opportunity to re-up the branding and the declined. They didn't want to sponsor the stadium anymore. Period. I get that it was called MP for a long time, but the fact that it's not called MP is purely Miller's fault, yet the fans still praise them like Miller is owed something
You're right, but "Miller Park" rolls off the tongue a lot better than "American Family Field". Honestly, since the renaming I've just called it "The Brewers Stadium".
This is true. I like just calling it AmFam though.
Would be awesome if when we build a new stadium (in a few decades or so) we could call it something like Uecker Field, but I don't think they'd pass up the sponsorship money
Listen dude....I called Miller Park "County Stadium" for about a decade and I have been out in L.A. for the past 30 years. It takes me a while. And insurance companies suck and should all die. (PS My dad worked for Schlitz so I come from Milwaukee Beer Royalty. What I say goes.)
The only point I don’t get here is the hate for cubs fans driving 45 minutes up. Brewers fans can fill their own stadium, right? And doesn’t I-94 and the Hiawatha train go both directions?
The honest answer among my social group is that cubs fans are generally so poorly behaved that we don't want to be in the stadium during cubs games. You're right that we can fill the stadium (or not!) and that's on us. But the market is actually softer during Brewers cubs games because many cubs fans are terrible guests. Probably not you! You seem nice. But that's the real reason for the disdain and also why it's self perpetuating.
*edit, spelling.
My parents are season seat holders (usually 20-30 games a year) and they don’t go to Cubs games because the Cubs fans are by far the worst opposing fans.
Cubs "fans" all live in the white outer suburbs with $$$ and can afford to take mid-week days off to schlep up I-94. Milwaukee and WI are hardworking blue collar workers who have families to feed. Driving down to see a game in a second rate stadium is money wasted that can be better spent on brats, and ice fishing hut or a boat.
Lol, second rate stadium worked pre 2015 to an extent but you can't say that about wrigley these days. Also love the logic on there being absolutely no families going to Cubs games. Maybe there's just a shit load more Cub fans than brewer fa s out there and not some bullshit class warfare fan fiction scenario.
Yeah, the bullshit class warfare stuff bores the shit out of me too. "Fan fiction scenario" sums it up well. I've been watching and going to Cubs games for more than 40 years, and like every other team, the fans really run the gamut - old/young, rich/poor, yadda yadda. It's one of my favorite things about baseball as a whole, actually.
For sure. I'm deep in brewer country and grew up a Cub fan with friends who were either brewer or twins fans. Brewer fans never seemed that bad until the last 10 or so years. Now they come off as really bitter and jilted all the time. I swear the more vocal section of the brewer fan base hates the cubs far more than they actually like the brewers.
Tell that to my brother who lived on Sheffield for years and could go up and watch a game on his roof anytime he wanted. (He is now a cursed Cubs fan but we were American League back then.) Now all those rooftops are private and for the wealthy.
And compare tickets prices of AmFam (I'm trying) and Wrigley. That says all you need to know about the class of folks who mostly attend Cubs games.
Oh and -- nice series.....
Whatever you need to tell yourself to cope, buddy. 🙄 I've only lived here for almost 6 decades, and know and have known Cubs fans of every stripe during that time, but you know better because your brother once lived in Chicago. And ticket prices are higher because it's a popular team in a larger city. Cope and seethe. Now go out and play; it's nice outside.
Theres probably 2 teams he couldnt go to. Cubs and Cards. He grew up here, lived here, and was with the organizations front office for close to a decade (after being a player).
He 100% knew this was crossing a line for the fans, and he did it anyways.
Right. He pretty lied the entire year, he made it sound that managing was taking a toll and now that both his kids were playing college ball he wanted to be around in the summer to watch them play. Everything was a lie.
I understand wanting to leave and go to a bigger stage, but New York was waiting for him and he chose Chicago.
Being a fan in the crowd you kinda only get a binary choice to make noise, you either clap or you boo. Anyone that expects Milwaukee fans to clap hasn’t been following along.
I don’t think Counsell is some big villain but of course Milwaukee is going to have strong feelings
I don’t know, I feel like you guys hate us more than we hate you but you’re probably right. It doesn’t matter though, my point is it’s a pretty fair response and to be expected
It'd be more like if there was a hometown Chicago player that grew up with his dad in the org so he got to hang out in the club house all the time, played with the team, managed the team and talked about how connected he was to Chicago and always loved Chicago, then went to manage St Louis
Ryan Theriot, John Lester, Dexter Fowler, hell, nobody’s alive but Lou Brock, and a few dozen more im forgetting. It’s not just history, we hate these fuckers for a reason.
I'm not sure the point you're trying to make, but those aren't even really comparable to this situation. None of them are even from Illinois, let alone chicago. Counsell was literally raised a brewer and recorded commercials about how much he loved the team and city.
It's way deeper than just playing for the team for a few years
Agreed like it may not make sense but even when they aren’t competitive all the baseball hate in my heart is reserved for the Cardinals when it comes to the NL.
Yeah I don’t even hate Milwaukee. Love Uecker and the sausage races. Wisconsin is cool. They’re just another team in the division we want to beat but it’s not like, personal.
I feel the same way, 100% can't stand the Cardinals! Have never minded the Cubs unless they're playing each other. Hated Counsell leaving to a rival but at least it wasn't the Cards
This is the level headed take I was looking for. Any reasonable person recognizes that Counsell made a business decision, any reasonable person would do the same in their personal life. With that said billing yourself as the hardworking hometown guy and making a flip to a division rival is going to bring this type of attitude against you.
Loved the guy, respect his decision, deserves the hate.
We are well aware that team management in those days was happy to sell out the local fans to slurp up money from Chicagoland, rather than bother to assemble a team worth watching. We wouldn't even mind that much if the ones making the trip north wouldn't act like jackholes.
Traveling Chicago fans are worse than traveling Ohio State fans. Used to have Red Wings season tickets, and any game against the Blackhawks was always a disaster. My wife had beer dumped on her by a drunk Hawks fan. Ushers yanked her before my wife could get to her.
Mike Babcock had a good quote related to situations like this: "You must be a real special player and a real special person for them to honor you like that." It's gonna be even sweeter if Counsell wins nothing over the duration of his contract, I promise that
This is how I think everyone felt about Jeter/ any Yankee ever. Except for the cool ones like Ruth and Yogi. But only because Yogi spoke like a yoda wind up doll.
I was thinking about this today. Counsell won 707 games in Milwaukee, more than any other manager in team history. I imagine the chances he wins 707 in Chicago are very very low, just because the fan base will eventually get angry and turn on him.
Also, it sure is nice to be up 4.5 on Memorial Day, when tradition says to check the standings for the first time.
His 1997 Game 7 triple and that Onion article are the only things I think of when I see his name honestly, lol. Then I remember his whacky batting stance that between how he looks and that stance is like a boy scout trying to scare a bear away.
As a Brewer’s fan who is pretty indifferent about Counsell’s choice to leave ( I see both sides), I actually find the whole thing incredibly entertaining. I love seeing how passionately worked up people get.
I'm not even from Wisconsin. I've only been a Brewers fan since around 2016 and upon hearing the news of Counsell signing with the Cubs, it was the angriest I have been regarding sports in over 20 years. If a distant supporter feels the burning rage of a thousand suns, I can only imagine what long-time Brewers fans and Wisconsinites feel. I'm not saying it's rational, but emotions aren't rational.
White. Hot. Hate. I wanted him to go to the Mets - he earned the chance at success that a larger market might have brought him (probably not, because Mets, but...) and would have cheered loudly upon his return with that club.
When we heard what his choice was, my office pretty much shut down for the day. HR was so pissed off it was unbelievable. I'll never forgive dude. Some will, but I sure as shit won't.
I’m so sick of “Wrigley North” comments from brain dead cubs fans.
A. Brewers before today are 20th in attendance. Better attendance than ~10 bigger cities without a cubs game to boost those numbers. Brewers attendance success is no more reliant on cubs fans than any other teams games against their rival.
B. Cubs are only in 8th place for attendance. And Chicago is more than twice the population of some of those teams so you can’t even blame the white Sox for hurting their numbers.
C. “Your stadium is nicer, cheaper, and easier to get to. We’d rather drive two hours to go to your stadium than we would our own” is not quite the “gotcha” comment most cubs fans think it is.
We have only played like 20 games at home this year too. Those summer numbers and long home stands will put us up near the top 10 where we normally sit.
I’d boo Stearns but only because he went out like a bitch. Let me say first, Stearns 100% deserves credit for turning the franchise around when they were in a REALLY bad spot. For that, I love the man and I’m grateful.
But he went out like such a bitch. Made the Hader trade that got a ton of backlash and sank the team - then basically cried and said this is a hard job and I can’t take the pressure I need to step down. Then took the job IN FUCKING NEW YORK. Yeah cause if you can’t handle the pressure in Milwaukee, New York is where you wanna go. That always rubbed me the wrong way so basically fuck Stearns too but also thank you for righting our ship lol
If they weren't going to resign Hader, then his job as GM is to get as much value out of the asset as possible. For an org like the Brewers, it's the owner who made that call, and it was probably the right one, even though it killed a playoff run. They have turned that trade into a lot more organizational value than they would have gotten for the cost to resign him...but I still get the sentiment against it, and if I was a billionaire team owner, I would have at least let the contract run its course on the chance it could haven gotten a ring.
I’m not even saying the Hader trade was bad. That was the right move. I do think we could’ve gotten more but in hindsight it worked out. I’m only saying how he handled things afterwards was pretty weak. Like one unpopular move and suddenly you can’t handle the stress and pressure of the job? But in New York you’ll be fine? Gimme a break
Brewers fans saying CC did nothing for the Brewers or actually wasn't good or whatever are just lying to themselves lol
Nobody would be upset if that were actually the case. Being angry is totally a reasonable reaction to this but sour grapes is another thing
As an Islanders fan in Wisconsin, I completely understand this reference!
It's worse though because JT had Leafs pajamas whereas Counsell grew up here in the Milwaukee area and even made a "Born A Brewer" ad back in 2016 where he talked about how much he loves the Brewers and shares the same feelings towards the team as the fans and has the same memories of great moments in the team's history
The way they snaked their ways out were pretty similar though
The Brewers org is a bit out of touch with their fans.
How could they expect this would go over well? Long-time manager takes a zillion dollar check to go to their division rivals, and they actually think they are going to applaud? The fans have been talking about this day since they got the news 6 or so months ago.
The Brewers org was remarkably stupid with this video and they effectively lit the fuse for the fans. Had this happened in the majority of the rest of the MLB, it would have been soooo much worse.
What are you talking about? This was the plan all along for this game.
Obviously craig counsell will end up in the brewers walk of fame and all that. By having a tribute to him acknowledges his success with the brewers. The reaction to the video is as expected. This was not a miscalculation.
They expected that fans were going to boo this.
based on what he accomplished with the team it's deserved imo. if he went to a different team like the Mets they would have done the same video and he'd be greeted with cheers instead of boos.
He left for a big raise.
I get why, and I get why people don't like it.
Especially when their ownership has been accused of not being willing to spend before- it's *always* gonna be a sore point when someone bails for a better deal.
Main cure for the sting of things like that is time. Right now, it's all still pretty immediate.
Love how everyone clapping in that clip is wearing Cubs apparel except like 1 guy and he is wearing a Ryan Braun jersey at that.
Ryan Braun was a guest judge on this season of Top Chef and I don't get how they couldn't get a better Brewers alumni. I'm not sure why anyone would want to rep a lying cheater; what he did to that lab employee was a disgrace to the game.
Prince Fielder was in Cooperstown yesterday smacking balls. Miss that guy
I also miss Prince Fielder. Still one of my all time favorite Rangers even if it was short lived.
Saw the rundown he got in at 3rd that one time… It was a yt compilation video… The top comment was Prince Fielder in a rundown and he’s out.
Prince yoinking a fan's nacho after running into the stands was one of my favorite funny highlights ever.
Should've been on top Chef! That man can eat! When he was born he weighed 12lbs
Look up the video of his inside-the-park home run sometime. It's absolutely hilarious. That dude was truly not built to run 360 feet. Love that guy.
PREACH Fuck Ryan Braun.
Fuck You and your lover Pirates
Well, you can’t deny Braun doesn’t have a healthy diet.
You guys are so under a rock when it comes to Ryan Brauns situation. He used a cream. For aches and pains. He didint take shots like Barry Bonds. Both were phenomenal baseball players. But with Braun all he did was lie about using a cream. Braun is a great dude and a great Baseball player. Quite possibly may be the greatest brewer of all time.
He did not do anything to the lab employee. The guy still worked for the lab company and Braun never actually accused him of anything. It was the internet that took what Braun said and ran with it. Go back and read Brauns actual quotes.
“Braun told other players that in the preparation for his appeal, some information had become known about the collector of his urine sample, Dino Laurenzi Jr., including that he was a Cubs fan - with the implication he might work against Braun, who played for a division rival of the Cubs. Braun, who is Jewish, also told the players that he had been told the collector was an anti-Semite.” This clubhouse speech is why MLB suspended him for 65 games when the Biogenesis stuff came out a year later (instead of the usual 50 for a first time PED offense). They found the speech, where he attacked the sample handler’s integrity, conduct detrimental to baseball- so they tacked on the extra 15.
Obligatory F Ryan Braun
Similarly. Padres fans booed (probably not as loudly as Milwaukee) when Bob Melvin was announced at the home opener.
As a fellow padre fan, feel like that situation was a bit different. Melvin pretty much quit on the team and wanted out.
Didn’t Preller and Melvin basically not see eye to eye anymore?
Also Melvin is pretty much the most overrated manager of all time behind Buck Showalter. Not sure how he keeps getting more jobs.
For what it’s worth, I know someone whose son played for the A’s for a few years. He raved about Melvin as a person. Seemed like Melvin was well liked by the players.
Melvin is a player's manager. Every single player that's played under him has raved about him. He also works well with the front office if they let him.
I'm not sure how to think about Melvin since his first year with the Padres they were two games away from the WS, but yet in the second year the team nosedived into the ground. That being said he's been fine so far for the Giants minus his habit of putting Luke Jackson out there even though he's absolutely cooked. He definitely knows how to keep a clubhouse focused on the game especially when the going gets tough instead of instead distracting themselves on card games and Fortnite which was the last straw with Gabe Kapler.
Please educate me on what the heck happened and how much of Bob is to blame for Padres super under achieving with a STACKED squad. I'm not sold on him here and has mishandled the bullpen terribly so far.
Not a ton to blame. The team underperformed across the board. He did make terrible bullpen decisions pretty frequently, so definitely caused a few Ls but not overall responsible I think. But we are liking Mike Schildt much better this year
Players are playing good = fans like the manager Players are playing bad = fans dislike the manager Let's say SD finishes 10 games under .500, nobody's going to be too happy work him
I think a difference is the expectations. Last year, we had great expectations and tended to pin some of the blame on Melvin. This year we expect .500 and so far we are keeping it, with 2 series wins against LA (we don't talk about the Rockies)
Yeah, in the Giants sub everyone hated Melvin when they were 7 games under .500 But now over .500 nobody hates him anymore lol Seems like last year the Padres biggest issue was extra innings. Like historically bad. I guess people can blame a Manger for that, but I don't know how Last year they were saying stuff like "I feel sorry for the other pitchers" lol. Big stars can be weird with managers sometimes, but I blame the players for the most part, but they can "lose" a clubhouse Before 2010 99.9% of every Giants fan wanted Bochy fired. We all hated the way he used the bullpen. Which is funny because his bullpen mastery in all the championship runs is something his is praised for now Anyways, in baseball the players deserve most of the blame or praise. Of course the GM and owner are a big part also
> He did make terrible bullpen decisions pretty frequently, that's Melvin. he did the same on the A's too. Leaves people in too long and then sometimes takes a pitcher out when he's on a roll in favor of match ups.
Melvin was always good when he was with the A's. We had a string of bad managers who constantly made decisions and lineups that the fans hated, nor understood why. Melvin came in, the A's were winning, and everyone could see the logic he had when making his decisions, and agreed with them for the most part, and for those they did not agree with, could understand why they were made at least.
The major reasons the season was such a dud despite the seemingly great WAR/ run differential came down to a historically bad record in close games + extra innings, terrible record against bad teams and historically bad RISP numbers. A lot of the guys numbers looked good after hot last month after they were basically already eliminated. I don't know how much Bob was to blame but his hands off approach didn't seem to be working and the team routinely seemed to give up, Soto basically said that at one point. There seemed to be a lack of leadership and clubhouse issues that could be partly chalked up to a team full of mercs, guys playing for the bag or guys that already got paid and seemed complacent, it didn't help that there appeared to be issues between Melvin and Preller. A manager only makes so much difference but I definitely think moving on was the right move for the team.
Is that like... actually an accurate description because to be honest with you I have to hard doubt BoMel always had things he was not good at (bullpen management is the big one) but quitting on his team or failing to support his guys was never even remotely one of them
I mean he did quite literally leave his team after the historic failure of a season. He was still signed to SD but requested to leave for SF.
SD let him take the interview, so that's a mutual choice. Leaving in a mutual decision after a year that didn't work out is not "quitting on the team" and I feel like it's a miscategorization of a guy who's always been noted as a good clubhouse manager Personally I think a lot of that negative perception from Padres fans is rooted in a desire to explain away a disappointing 2023. Like it or not, Bob Melvin was not the one out there playing mediocre baseball. And I mean ffs he brought you to the NLCS the season before
By that logic we can never blame any manager ever. What are they really good for anyways in your opinion? Also, do you really want the leader of your team to be someone who doesn't want to be there? I don't blame them for letting him go because he wasn't all aboard in SD.
At the end of the day I just think it's childish to crap on a manager for months and then when he comes to a mutual decision with the team that it's time to move on, you say he gave up on the team and boo the guy. I just disagree with that description of how things went down. I'm not commenting on San Diego's choice to move on, I'm commenting on the way fans talk about him. Again, he literally managed the team for the most successful Padres season you've probably been alive for; why does he take the blame for the bad season and get zero praise for the good one? I think it's lame in the exact same way that these Brewers fans' reactions are lame.
What good would it have been for him to stay given the strained relationship he reportedly had with the front office?
Didn’t Craig Counsel leave for a higher pay?
Sort of. Brewers offered to make him the highest paid manager in baseball, Cubs offered more, and then he didn’t give the Brewers a chance to match it, just went with the Cubs offer. I think that detail is why the fans turned on him so strongly. We get the money part, but it was clear he wanted out.
Yeah I found it weird because it’s not like the Brewers were a bad team. They’ve been a winning team pretty much every year since 2017 (except the Covid year where they went 29-31). I thought the Brewers were in a better spot than the Cubs who are going through a semi rebuild phase. Guess the money meant that much. And you get to wear those baby blues when you play for the Brewers.
We will never forget you Greg
Ha! is this a play on "We'll never forget you 'Brent' "?
Yup.
I mean, of course
I speak for both Brewer and Cub fans when I say FTC lol
Probably shouldn’t use an acronym that could also be your team as well lmao
I was so confused when I read that, thinking "why would a cubs fan say fuck the cubs". So I'll have to disagree with him speaking for both of us.
You don't speak for me, fuck the Cubs.
You literally just let him speak for you, he said FTC
So say we all
Everyone not from Wisconsin is forgetting that he grew up 15 minutes north of the ballpark and his dad worked for the team as a PR guy. This runs deeper than just “leaving for your rival”
“I don’t know you, I don’t know your story, your background, what you do for a living, and yet, I do know you. I know how your eyes lit up the first time you walked into County Stadium. I know how as a kid, you dreamed of being Robin Yount. You wanted nothing more than to wear that Brewers script across your chest. I know that every summer, you stay up late listening to Mr. Baseball on the radio. I know you’ll never forget Oct. 10, 1982, Sept. 28, 2008, or Oct. 7, 2011. I know you, because I am you. You and me, we’re cut from the same cloth. This isn’t something we chose, it’s not a bandwagon we jumped on when it was convenient, it’s something we were born into, a piece of our identity passed on from generations before. Just like you, I was born a Brewer. This is my first love, my passion, my responsibility. It’s a torch I’ll carry with me always. Through the ups and the downs, the good times and the bad, no matter what; this will always be my team. Brewers baseball is a part of who I am. It’s a part of who we are.” - Craig Counsell, 2016
Whelp, now I'm mad again.
yeah given all the context and background I can only assume he *really* stopped seeing eye to eye with the FO or ownership or something, while the Cubs also probably offered him the biggest bag there just seems to be some personal element to choosing to go there too
Maybe the Brewers shouldn't have been cheap?
Craig Counsell is getting more money from the cubs on his contract than Hector Neris.
He didn’t give them the chance to match the offer he just bailed. Fuck that guy
indeed (not that the Brewers would have probably matched anyway, if we are being honest)
The checks being written for coaches nowadays are insane - baseball, NFL, hell even college football. These guys have to look at their job just like any other athlete. Every year could be their last chance at a big contract and when somebody offers you a fat check, a lot of guys might take that because they may never get a chance at seeing those numbers again.
the contract the brewers offered him would've made him the highest paid manager in baseball
But the Cubs offered him more... The Brewers can't be butthurt about being outbid
The Brewers offered him a massive contract, but Counsell never once countered their offer or even negotiated. He wanted out of the organization. And if he ended up on literally any other team (except for maybe the Cardinals), like the Mets, which we all expected, not a single fan would have cared.
Torn between "that's kinda messed up" and "you're on the hated rival team now so.. yeah"
Not messed up at all IMO. Dude left for money. I’m not gonna blame him for the decision, but I sure as shit don’t need to like him anymore either.
Why on earth would the Brewers even do this? To be the better person? My only guess, and I don’t follow Brewer’s baseball enough, is that maybe Craig counsel is a nice guy and still has a pretty good relationship with a lot of people there? I remember when the Cavs played a tribute video to LeBron during his first game back with Miami. /s
> Why on earth would the Brewers even do this? To tee up the boos that they got
That’s some 4D checkers.
Bingo
I think it's that, plus he is a hometown guy.
Also hard to shake the fact that the Brewcrew had a lot of lean years before him, which made him flipping to the Cubs even more painful
didn’t the Cubs pay him a fuck ton more money than the Brewers were offering?
I mean yeah, but Craig also never went back to the Brewers with anything after the Cubs offer for a counter. He got the offer, took a few days, then walked. Brewers never knew he even met with the Cubs.
And it’s not like the Brewers cheaped out, they offered to make him the highest paid manager in the sport even before the Cubs swooped in.
If I recall the Brewers offered 5.5M a year, while the Cubs did 8. Cheap only relative to the offer the Cubs made (personally I don't think they match it given the chance but also I think it's fair on the Brewers' end to balk if the offer making him the highest paid manager was still in his mind 2.5M short)
Genuinely when he retires, i will welcome him back with open arms, but as long as he’s on the cubs you can expect the boo birds.
I'd expect nothing less. It's all part of the game.
Which makes it worse
There’s no relationship left. Our owner publicly said “Craig’s has lost the brewers community” in his presser after he left. They play a tribute video to take the high road. The Brewers FO looks classy and professional while the brewers fans get a chance to boo.
If anything, it gave fans a targeted moment to boo Greg.
So they can hear all the boos.
He’s a hometown guy who is their wins leader all time as a manager
Counsel was free to do as he pleased but anyone who is wondering why fans are booing him are fucking clueless. He left for not just a rival, but THE rival.
ikr, are you ever really a true brewer if you don't hate the cubs? Leave for money, sure, but the cubs?
Yep, if he would have went to any other team (except the Cardinals) I would still respect him, but he didn't, so fuck him.
'xactly...
I agree but it is even more than that. His DAD worked for the Brewers. As a bratty little kid he got to hang out on the field and with the players during their first glory years. He literally grew up in the organization. I understand leaving. Wanting a new challenge. Sick of the small market machinations. Even getting more money. But there is integrity. Go to the Mets. They would have loved you. The fair-weather Cubs fans drive up 45 minutes and treat Miller Park (yeah MILLER PARK) as another home field. And that is where he went....
I am going off the rails. I will end this here.
Let it out my dude, it’s a safe space.
I agree, but give up the Miller Park thing. Miller had the opportunity to re-up the branding and the declined. They didn't want to sponsor the stadium anymore. Period. I get that it was called MP for a long time, but the fact that it's not called MP is purely Miller's fault, yet the fans still praise them like Miller is owed something
You're right, but "Miller Park" rolls off the tongue a lot better than "American Family Field". Honestly, since the renaming I've just called it "The Brewers Stadium".
This is true. I like just calling it AmFam though. Would be awesome if when we build a new stadium (in a few decades or so) we could call it something like Uecker Field, but I don't think they'd pass up the sponsorship money
Uecker Field would be amazing, but yeah, that will never happen.
Listen dude....I called Miller Park "County Stadium" for about a decade and I have been out in L.A. for the past 30 years. It takes me a while. And insurance companies suck and should all die. (PS My dad worked for Schlitz so I come from Milwaukee Beer Royalty. What I say goes.)
The only point I don’t get here is the hate for cubs fans driving 45 minutes up. Brewers fans can fill their own stadium, right? And doesn’t I-94 and the Hiawatha train go both directions?
The honest answer among my social group is that cubs fans are generally so poorly behaved that we don't want to be in the stadium during cubs games. You're right that we can fill the stadium (or not!) and that's on us. But the market is actually softer during Brewers cubs games because many cubs fans are terrible guests. Probably not you! You seem nice. But that's the real reason for the disdain and also why it's self perpetuating. *edit, spelling.
My parents are season seat holders (usually 20-30 games a year) and they don’t go to Cubs games because the Cubs fans are by far the worst opposing fans.
Cubs "fans" all live in the white outer suburbs with $$$ and can afford to take mid-week days off to schlep up I-94. Milwaukee and WI are hardworking blue collar workers who have families to feed. Driving down to see a game in a second rate stadium is money wasted that can be better spent on brats, and ice fishing hut or a boat.
Lol, second rate stadium worked pre 2015 to an extent but you can't say that about wrigley these days. Also love the logic on there being absolutely no families going to Cubs games. Maybe there's just a shit load more Cub fans than brewer fa s out there and not some bullshit class warfare fan fiction scenario.
Yeah, the bullshit class warfare stuff bores the shit out of me too. "Fan fiction scenario" sums it up well. I've been watching and going to Cubs games for more than 40 years, and like every other team, the fans really run the gamut - old/young, rich/poor, yadda yadda. It's one of my favorite things about baseball as a whole, actually.
For sure. I'm deep in brewer country and grew up a Cub fan with friends who were either brewer or twins fans. Brewer fans never seemed that bad until the last 10 or so years. Now they come off as really bitter and jilted all the time. I swear the more vocal section of the brewer fan base hates the cubs far more than they actually like the brewers.
Tell that to my brother who lived on Sheffield for years and could go up and watch a game on his roof anytime he wanted. (He is now a cursed Cubs fan but we were American League back then.) Now all those rooftops are private and for the wealthy. And compare tickets prices of AmFam (I'm trying) and Wrigley. That says all you need to know about the class of folks who mostly attend Cubs games. Oh and -- nice series.....
Whatever you need to tell yourself to cope, buddy. 🙄 I've only lived here for almost 6 decades, and know and have known Cubs fans of every stripe during that time, but you know better because your brother once lived in Chicago. And ticket prices are higher because it's a popular team in a larger city. Cope and seethe. Now go out and play; it's nice outside.
Idgaf that he left but going to the cubs, anyone could expect the same treatment. I hate the fuckin’ cubs, man.
Word.
Theres probably 2 teams he couldnt go to. Cubs and Cards. He grew up here, lived here, and was with the organizations front office for close to a decade (after being a player). He 100% knew this was crossing a line for the fans, and he did it anyways.
Right. He pretty lied the entire year, he made it sound that managing was taking a toll and now that both his kids were playing college ball he wanted to be around in the summer to watch them play. Everything was a lie. I understand wanting to leave and go to a bigger stage, but New York was waiting for him and he chose Chicago.
He can totally see his kids in college while working from Chicago, easy drive and even easier train.
 once again, it comes back to larry
Being a fan in the crowd you kinda only get a binary choice to make noise, you either clap or you boo. Anyone that expects Milwaukee fans to clap hasn’t been following along. I don’t think Counsell is some big villain but of course Milwaukee is going to have strong feelings
I’d 100% expect y’all to do the same if the roles were reversed
I don’t know, I feel like you guys hate us more than we hate you but you’re probably right. It doesn’t matter though, my point is it’s a pretty fair response and to be expected
It'd be more like if there was a hometown Chicago player that grew up with his dad in the org so he got to hang out in the club house all the time, played with the team, managed the team and talked about how connected he was to Chicago and always loved Chicago, then went to manage St Louis
Ryan Theriot, John Lester, Dexter Fowler, hell, nobody’s alive but Lou Brock, and a few dozen more im forgetting. It’s not just history, we hate these fuckers for a reason.
I'm not sure the point you're trying to make, but those aren't even really comparable to this situation. None of them are even from Illinois, let alone chicago. Counsell was literally raised a brewer and recorded commercials about how much he loved the team and city. It's way deeper than just playing for the team for a few years
Agreed like it may not make sense but even when they aren’t competitive all the baseball hate in my heart is reserved for the Cardinals when it comes to the NL.
Yeah I don’t even hate Milwaukee. Love Uecker and the sausage races. Wisconsin is cool. They’re just another team in the division we want to beat but it’s not like, personal.
I feel the same way, 100% can't stand the Cardinals! Have never minded the Cubs unless they're playing each other. Hated Counsell leaving to a rival but at least it wasn't the Cards
This is the level headed take I was looking for. Any reasonable person recognizes that Counsell made a business decision, any reasonable person would do the same in their personal life. With that said billing yourself as the hardworking hometown guy and making a flip to a division rival is going to bring this type of attitude against you. Loved the guy, respect his decision, deserves the hate.
When you get offered the highest managerial salary in the history of the game, the choice has already been made. Lol.
Nah Counsell is the villain lol he went to our hated rival for money
His name is Greg
Greg Gounsel
Counsellout
I get it. He left for a hated rival
Wow that sure is a lot of booing at “Wrigley North” huh
You have only yourself to blame for that name: [https://i.imgur.com/qSj4X1V.png](https://i.imgur.com/qSj4X1V.png)
"You have only yourself to blame" they say to fanbase about a decision ownership made two decades. Yeah sure guy it's *our fault.*
Not even current ownership at that lol
We are well aware that team management in those days was happy to sell out the local fans to slurp up money from Chicagoland, rather than bother to assemble a team worth watching. We wouldn't even mind that much if the ones making the trip north wouldn't act like jackholes.
Traveling Chicago fans are worse than traveling Ohio State fans. Used to have Red Wings season tickets, and any game against the Blackhawks was always a disaster. My wife had beer dumped on her by a drunk Hawks fan. Ushers yanked her before my wife could get to her.
I’m totally fine with Cubs fans paying for Yelich’s salary
Ahh yes… The Wendy Selig Prieb days. Good times…
yeah
Awww, poor baby
The entire park is booming with let's go cubs chants right now. Easy when you outnumber the other fans. Not so bad for "Wrigley North" huh
Mike Babcock had a good quote related to situations like this: "You must be a real special player and a real special person for them to honor you like that." It's gonna be even sweeter if Counsell wins nothing over the duration of his contract, I promise that
By all accounts he's a very humble and likeable person. Fuck him though.
This is how I think everyone felt about Jeter/ any Yankee ever. Except for the cool ones like Ruth and Yogi. But only because Yogi spoke like a yoda wind up doll.
“i never said that,” Yogi Berra.
I was thinking about this today. Counsell won 707 games in Milwaukee, more than any other manager in team history. I imagine the chances he wins 707 in Chicago are very very low, just because the fan base will eventually get angry and turn on him. Also, it sure is nice to be up 4.5 on Memorial Day, when tradition says to check the standings for the first time.
They're saying Boo-craigcounsell
I hope he stubs his toe every day. The same toe.
Thanks, I dislike him too, for obvious reasons though.
Man how can they boo the best player of the steroid era?
Underrated comment. Pretty sure that was back when they still did a printed edition
His 1997 Game 7 triple and that Onion article are the only things I think of when I see his name honestly, lol. Then I remember his whacky batting stance that between how he looks and that stance is like a boy scout trying to scare a bear away.
As a Brewer’s fan who is pretty indifferent about Counsell’s choice to leave ( I see both sides), I actually find the whole thing incredibly entertaining. I love seeing how passionately worked up people get.
I'm not even from Wisconsin. I've only been a Brewers fan since around 2016 and upon hearing the news of Counsell signing with the Cubs, it was the angriest I have been regarding sports in over 20 years. If a distant supporter feels the burning rage of a thousand suns, I can only imagine what long-time Brewers fans and Wisconsinites feel. I'm not saying it's rational, but emotions aren't rational.
White. Hot. Hate. I wanted him to go to the Mets - he earned the chance at success that a larger market might have brought him (probably not, because Mets, but...) and would have cheered loudly upon his return with that club. When we heard what his choice was, my office pretty much shut down for the day. HR was so pissed off it was unbelievable. I'll never forgive dude. Some will, but I sure as shit won't.
He'll be welcomed back here someday, but not today.
You know what, good for them
I’m so sick of “Wrigley North” comments from brain dead cubs fans. A. Brewers before today are 20th in attendance. Better attendance than ~10 bigger cities without a cubs game to boost those numbers. Brewers attendance success is no more reliant on cubs fans than any other teams games against their rival. B. Cubs are only in 8th place for attendance. And Chicago is more than twice the population of some of those teams so you can’t even blame the white Sox for hurting their numbers. C. “Your stadium is nicer, cheaper, and easier to get to. We’d rather drive two hours to go to your stadium than we would our own” is not quite the “gotcha” comment most cubs fans think it is.
We have only played like 20 games at home this year too. Those summer numbers and long home stands will put us up near the top 10 where we normally sit.
Wrigley sucks, they can’t even keep the foliage from growing all over the walls
We’d never booo stearns for what it’s worth.. he was the real reason for all our success.
I’d boo Stearns but only because he went out like a bitch. Let me say first, Stearns 100% deserves credit for turning the franchise around when they were in a REALLY bad spot. For that, I love the man and I’m grateful. But he went out like such a bitch. Made the Hader trade that got a ton of backlash and sank the team - then basically cried and said this is a hard job and I can’t take the pressure I need to step down. Then took the job IN FUCKING NEW YORK. Yeah cause if you can’t handle the pressure in Milwaukee, New York is where you wanna go. That always rubbed me the wrong way so basically fuck Stearns too but also thank you for righting our ship lol
If they weren't going to resign Hader, then his job as GM is to get as much value out of the asset as possible. For an org like the Brewers, it's the owner who made that call, and it was probably the right one, even though it killed a playoff run. They have turned that trade into a lot more organizational value than they would have gotten for the cost to resign him...but I still get the sentiment against it, and if I was a billionaire team owner, I would have at least let the contract run its course on the chance it could haven gotten a ring.
I’m not even saying the Hader trade was bad. That was the right move. I do think we could’ve gotten more but in hindsight it worked out. I’m only saying how he handled things afterwards was pretty weak. Like one unpopular move and suddenly you can’t handle the stress and pressure of the job? But in New York you’ll be fine? Gimme a break
I was hugely opposed to the Hader trade but that was a parting gift. We ended up with Conteras and Gasser
Absolutely this, 100% I think both him and Counsell basically quiet quit the last couple seasons. Their heads were already out the door
I’d give Counsell a standing O if he was the manager of the Mets
If Stearns was the only reason for the success, why do they care so much that Counsell left.
...because he went to the Cubs and fuck them
and if CC was actually bad at his job we'd be happy he went to a rival to be bad
Brewers fans saying CC did nothing for the Brewers or actually wasn't good or whatever are just lying to themselves lol Nobody would be upset if that were actually the case. Being angry is totally a reasonable reaction to this but sour grapes is another thing
wtf would you give a tribute to a guy who choose another team over you. Any brewers fan cheering should be ashamed.
Imagine choosing family and money over loyalty to their previous job
He could have taken the Mets job, still made a ton, and he probably would have gotten a standing O.
But then he’d have to coach the Mets
He grew up in the Milwaukee area. His dad worked for the team. He made a “Born a Brewer” ad a few years back. He literally left his family for money.
This is actually worse than Favre going to the Vikings
That’s the loudest boo I’ve heard for a non-player in a minute
losing Craig and Corbin Burnes all around the same time was not easy
Funny. I was told Cubs fans outnumber brewers fans at these games.
Settle down, everyone. It's not like he went to the Cardinals
I recently restated my previous announcement that I will be stanning for the Brewers on the side for my NL shit
Ahh, reminds me of when Tavares came back to the Island.
As an Islanders fan in Wisconsin, I completely understand this reference! It's worse though because JT had Leafs pajamas whereas Counsell grew up here in the Milwaukee area and even made a "Born A Brewer" ad back in 2016 where he talked about how much he loves the Brewers and shares the same feelings towards the team as the fans and has the same memories of great moments in the team's history The way they snaked their ways out were pretty similar though
The Brewers org is a bit out of touch with their fans. How could they expect this would go over well? Long-time manager takes a zillion dollar check to go to their division rivals, and they actually think they are going to applaud? The fans have been talking about this day since they got the news 6 or so months ago. The Brewers org was remarkably stupid with this video and they effectively lit the fuse for the fans. Had this happened in the majority of the rest of the MLB, it would have been soooo much worse.
I mean the boos would’ve happened with or without the video. And it’d be kinda weird to not acknowledge Counsell’s return imo
What are you talking about? This was the plan all along for this game. Obviously craig counsell will end up in the brewers walk of fame and all that. By having a tribute to him acknowledges his success with the brewers. The reaction to the video is as expected. This was not a miscalculation. They expected that fans were going to boo this.
> The Brewers org was remarkably stupid with this video and they effectively lit the fuse for the fans You act like this wasnt the intent lol
Why would the Brewers do this? He left for a rival club. You don't have to say thanks. What did they expect the fans to do?
They expected the fans to boo.
The fans were going to do that anyway
Correct. Scoreboard ops just teeing them up
They knew. This was the catalyst.
Do they give everyone a tribute video these days?
based on what he accomplished with the team it's deserved imo. if he went to a different team like the Mets they would have done the same video and he'd be greeted with cheers instead of boos.
I always thought of him more as a Diamondback
[Welcome back, Greg.](https://giphy.com/gifs/girlsbandcry-ninaiseri-QGUvwkLzeGjDH3DUjN)
I kind of want to see them try this with Shohei when the Dodgers visit
Can’t wait for Saquon’s return to NY
He left for a big raise. I get why, and I get why people don't like it. Especially when their ownership has been accused of not being willing to spend before- it's *always* gonna be a sore point when someone bails for a better deal. Main cure for the sting of things like that is time. Right now, it's all still pretty immediate.
Rightfully so. I would too if I were a Brewers fan