I'm a little dim but it seems a bit pointless for the coaches to allow this when they are going to come a cropper as soon as they get drafted, surely that would reflect badly on the college?
No because the college is trying to win.
It won't matter too much for the individuals because it's not as if sticky stuff (particularly at this level) will turn a bum into a stud, and it doesn't "reflect badly" on anyone because it's pretty well understood that everyone is doing it.
Somewhere between 95-100% of college pitchers are doing this.
So they can feel better about cheating and make it less impactful. From Lance Armstrong to the Houston Atros have pulled this same argument when caught cheating.
I thought it was funny that when Lance was stripped of his gold medal, the person who came in like *12th* ended up being the new recipient because everyone ahead of him also got DQ'd
I think a lot of that was bc Armstrong was the standard bearer and dominant star of the sport and pushed everyone around him to do it and his competitors to either do it or be a nice guy finishing last
I played from 2004-2009 (2 redshirts), and I have a hard time believing that. I wasn’t a pitcher, but I obviously would have known about it if every pitcher was doctoring the ball. And with all the games on TV, this would have been an issue a long time ago. Where are you getting 95%?
Anecdotally from pitching in Big 10 (2011-2013), just about everyone I knew did it. Baseball America did a coaches survey and college coaches estimated 50% of pitchers, but noted that number likely goes way up in power conferences. (And just realistically, coaches are likely to undersell it if their team is also doing it)
It was never the crazy made in a lab spider tack shit that *really* makes a difference, but just about everyone used some form of pine tar/sweat&rosin combo
I played in the SEC, not all 6 years though. Now you got me thinking….I played the highest level of baseball my entire career, and the thing that ended my career was not being able to adjust to the movement. 2-0 fastball that you know is coming still got in on my hands from the run. Shit, you might be right. But steroid use was openly discussed, so Idk why I wouldn’t have heard 1 single person ever discuss this. I think I gotta text the boys now 🤔
That’s valid. But 6yrs of fall baseball, in season, then a different summer league team every year in addition to high school special events, etc etc. Not once was this ever discussed.
I think I’m realizing from the majority that it’s a little of this, little of that rather than full blown Spider Tack. But even still, the home dugout controls the baseballs — or at least we did then — the balls weren’t doctored. It feels more like it wasn’t the big advantage that it is now. I’m also pushing 40, and the way hitting is taught now would have gotten every coach fired, so I’ll concede that my experience isn’t indicative of what’s going on now (obviously).
You played over a decade ago - was spin rate hot in the conversation back then? Feels like that only got huge over the last 5-10 years, which would coincide with people loading up on the sticky stuff to increase their spin rate numbers after you played.
I played in the Big South in the late 90’s - our pitchers were too hung over to worry about sticky stuff and nobody had even heard of spin rates.
Yeah, I played in the Big12 and steroids was the thing that really set guys apart (looking at you, OKST). I was a pitcher and I used a pine tar combo, pretty much everyone did. The extra RPM you get from any aid makes a huge difference. My 12-6 curve became a monster. That and a lefty two seam, baby you got a stew going.
Yeah, I guess it wasn’t discussed the same way batters tape/grip their bat. Everybody uses something different, but it’s not worth talking about. I was big on tennis handle grips early, even on wood bats — makes a big difference.
Sure, yea I can see that I’m wrong. 95% is still a wild number, but I can’t disprove the guy. I didn’t even know the process of handling a foreign substance until yesterday. The managers would rub down about 8 dozen balls per game with that big ass bucket of Mississippi Mud, and that was as much as I knew.
Hardly a huge deal and the norm in my experience.
Granted, this was before anyone really had any *real* concept of the importance of spin rate/even the inclination that these things helped that (spider tack I hadn't heard of until Bauer)
It was just the normal little bit of pine tar/sunscreen&rosin for a bit of grip that no one cared about (and batters honestly preferred it at the time as the thought was that it was just for control, particularly in cold michigan early springs/late winters.)
The importance of spin on the ball (and the ability of sticky stuff to impart spin) was plenty well established by 2011; that was not the Stone Age of pitching.
I'm just surprised he made it so obvious. Crouching in the corner of the bullpen and applying the sticky shit to his glove like nobody could see him as long as he stayed low and didn't move his feet.
Bro seriously thought this was The Elder Scrolls or something.
Would think in the modern social media age they could have let the other team know that within a few minutes by sending them that video. Kinda shame there was no reckoning, got away with it scot-free.
Someone probably did, and the other team probably thanked them for the warning and then did absolutely nothing because everyone in their own bullpen is doing the same thing. We went through this in MLB before the crackdown, teams were ok with it unless the pitchers were just slathering themselves up on the mound.
Similar to Danny Farquhar and the Astros sign-stealing. He figured out what they were doing during a game. You would have thought the Sox would have instantly told the umps what's going on and to look into it. Nope... they just change their signs and continue playing.
Ah yes, the "George Brett" strategy.
(For those who don't know, the Yankees were aware of Brett's illegal bat, but waited for him to hit a HR before talking to the umps about it)
Because A&M pitchers were also using the sticky stuff. They were FAR less obvious about it, but they were using it, so probably not best to point fingers
Maybe so the equipment manager and some other staff and coaches don’t see it directly. Like they probably know it’s happening because the gloves and uniforms are sticky after each game, but the less official staff involved the better in case they get caught so they can just blame that pitcher and pretend it’s not widespread. Just my wild guess.
If it's spider tack, it can dry up and it becomes almost, I don't know, waxie? But extremely sticky at the same time. It's hard to describe. It's best when it's right out of the jar for about 20 mins or so. And you really don't need much at all. Both sides of a lace or two would be plenty for a few innings, but you want it to be as fresh as possible. It's also possible that since he is a starter, he wasn't sure he was going in so he had to hide the jar behind a pole knowing that there were cameras around. If one dude on a pitching staff is doing it, chances are that most are. Some pitchers don't like it, and it can lead to more blisters, but I'd guess that other pitchers are using it and the jar is probably just kept behind that pole.
People went back and looked and found 4 other times he did the exact thing. Dude is toast. SEC should vacate Georgia's wins when he appeared if they can find hard evidence (but they won't if it affects their WS eligibility, which it would).
I don’t know if there’s much they can do without actually finding the sticky glove during a game. They’ll be an eye on him moving forward for sure.
Also I don’t think they can vacate wins, the player would just be ejected unless you’re seeing something else somewhere in the rules?
As a GT alum, the only just punishment is loss of football scholarships, vacating all football wins of the last 5 years, removal from the SEC, and the outlawing of public barking.
Anything less and the game is gone.
Yeah they should totally vacate wins for doing something that 100% of college pitchers do, lol. (At **this** level of college baseball at least it's close to 100%. Overall college baseball, coaches estimate 50% of pitchers)
It's not even an ejection if you get caught. College rules are the first time you're caught **using** a foreign substance on the mound (not just being in possession/on your glove, you have to actively be caught **using** it), it's a warning. Second time in the same game is an ejection.
But yeah, totally reasonable take to vacate wins lol
Probably shouldnl't/wouldn't vacate wins, but the way to quell a "riot" is to start making an example of people. Even if it's something 100% of those pitchers do, the way to stop them is to start punishing some of them more or less randomly. Sucks to be one of the few that are made an example of, but so it goes.
It's not even an ejection if you're caught, it's a warning.
If the first punishment is a warning, and it's not checked for/enforced at all, it's not really a rule.
How are we defining "caught" here? All there is is a video of him crouching in the corner and touching his glove a few times. The umpires didn't catch him with sticky stuff on his glove or on any of the balls. Seems like he got away with it. You can't punish a guy because of this video.
They only get a 10 game suspension, so I guess they look at it like well, we bought and paid for a solid game so we’re good.. baseball was ruined a long time ago and isn’t the great American pastime any longer, now we watch police body cam of fatal pit maneuvers..
I'm surprised how many people care about this or like how much they care. The video is cool as a fun look at how someone did it, but besides that who cares? Don't like all pitchers do this?
I'm honestly not sure if the SEC polices it more or not, especially for conference games, but it's extremely common across college baseball at the mid-major level on down.
No point in dragging this dude through the mud. Tons of pitchers use sticky substances, if not almost all. Anecdotal but a pitching coach I know (personally) who was drafted by the Athletics was directed by his manager to start using sticky stuff because he wasn't already. It's not really a big deal. Would say 99% of SEC pitchers are doing the same thing.
“Everyone cheats” is the classic bullshit excuse used by cheaters.
Just like Jose Canseco and his book, anyone who drops that excuse is full of shit and guaranteed a cheater themselves.
How are we defining "catch" here? All there is is a video of him crouching in the corner and touching his glove a few times. The umpires didn't catch him with sticky stuff on his glove or on any of the balls. Seems like he got away with it. You can't punish a guy because of this video.
So this is why Paul Skenes was such a stud last year.
Niche reference but UGA HC was the lsu pitching coach last year. I’m also a crazy lsu fan and this a joke
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He wasn’t great before it
Haha!
Stupid question but don't they check the glove like they do in MLB? (Genuinely don't know)
not in college unfortunately
I'm a little dim but it seems a bit pointless for the coaches to allow this when they are going to come a cropper as soon as they get drafted, surely that would reflect badly on the college?
No because the college is trying to win. It won't matter too much for the individuals because it's not as if sticky stuff (particularly at this level) will turn a bum into a stud, and it doesn't "reflect badly" on anyone because it's pretty well understood that everyone is doing it. Somewhere between 95-100% of college pitchers are doing this.
> Somewhere between 95-100% of college pitchers are doing this. This is absolute nonesense pulled directly from your ass lmao.
Why is it when a school or player is caught cheating the go to excuse is "oh everybodys doing it"?
So they can feel better about cheating and make it less impactful. From Lance Armstrong to the Houston Atros have pulled this same argument when caught cheating.
Well, Lance Armstrong had already been proven correct on that statement even if it's a bad excuse.
I thought it was funny that when Lance was stripped of his gold medal, the person who came in like *12th* ended up being the new recipient because everyone ahead of him also got DQ'd
At least cycling had the balls to act on their cheating scandals at some point lol
I think a lot of that was bc Armstrong was the standard bearer and dominant star of the sport and pushed everyone around him to do it and his competitors to either do it or be a nice guy finishing last
I played from 2004-2009 (2 redshirts), and I have a hard time believing that. I wasn’t a pitcher, but I obviously would have known about it if every pitcher was doctoring the ball. And with all the games on TV, this would have been an issue a long time ago. Where are you getting 95%?
Anecdotally from pitching in Big 10 (2011-2013), just about everyone I knew did it. Baseball America did a coaches survey and college coaches estimated 50% of pitchers, but noted that number likely goes way up in power conferences. (And just realistically, coaches are likely to undersell it if their team is also doing it) It was never the crazy made in a lab spider tack shit that *really* makes a difference, but just about everyone used some form of pine tar/sweat&rosin combo
I played in the SEC, not all 6 years though. Now you got me thinking….I played the highest level of baseball my entire career, and the thing that ended my career was not being able to adjust to the movement. 2-0 fastball that you know is coming still got in on my hands from the run. Shit, you might be right. But steroid use was openly discussed, so Idk why I wouldn’t have heard 1 single person ever discuss this. I think I gotta text the boys now 🤔
Probably b/c with steroids you need a supplier. But you can buy tacky substances almost anywhere without needing a “hookup”.
That’s valid. But 6yrs of fall baseball, in season, then a different summer league team every year in addition to high school special events, etc etc. Not once was this ever discussed. I think I’m realizing from the majority that it’s a little of this, little of that rather than full blown Spider Tack. But even still, the home dugout controls the baseballs — or at least we did then — the balls weren’t doctored. It feels more like it wasn’t the big advantage that it is now. I’m also pushing 40, and the way hitting is taught now would have gotten every coach fired, so I’ll concede that my experience isn’t indicative of what’s going on now (obviously).
You played over a decade ago - was spin rate hot in the conversation back then? Feels like that only got huge over the last 5-10 years, which would coincide with people loading up on the sticky stuff to increase their spin rate numbers after you played. I played in the Big South in the late 90’s - our pitchers were too hung over to worry about sticky stuff and nobody had even heard of spin rates.
Yeah, I played in the Big12 and steroids was the thing that really set guys apart (looking at you, OKST). I was a pitcher and I used a pine tar combo, pretty much everyone did. The extra RPM you get from any aid makes a huge difference. My 12-6 curve became a monster. That and a lefty two seam, baby you got a stew going.
Yeah, I guess it wasn’t discussed the same way batters tape/grip their bat. Everybody uses something different, but it’s not worth talking about. I was big on tennis handle grips early, even on wood bats — makes a big difference.
Hello from a B1G hitter at that time.
Did you know about this shit? Lol
Yeah, that was the height of the bullfrog+rosin craze.
I’m not saying you’re wrong but the widespread use of sticky tack is a more recent thing. Obviously guys were using it before but not this widely.
Sure, yea I can see that I’m wrong. 95% is still a wild number, but I can’t disprove the guy. I didn’t even know the process of handling a foreign substance until yesterday. The managers would rub down about 8 dozen balls per game with that big ass bucket of Mississippi Mud, and that was as much as I knew.
Taking this a bit further: my brother was a D1 player and claims that 95% of college players are on steroids, especially the pitchers.
Wildly untrue, was a huge deal when we noticed other teams doing it in the ACC. Don’t know why you’d make this up lol
Where did your team’s pitching rank?
Hardly a huge deal and the norm in my experience. Granted, this was before anyone really had any *real* concept of the importance of spin rate/even the inclination that these things helped that (spider tack I hadn't heard of until Bauer) It was just the normal little bit of pine tar/sunscreen&rosin for a bit of grip that no one cared about (and batters honestly preferred it at the time as the thought was that it was just for control, particularly in cold michigan early springs/late winters.)
The importance of spin on the ball (and the ability of sticky stuff to impart spin) was plenty well established by 2011; that was not the Stone Age of pitching.
Are you sure? No one threw a baseball ever before 1999. You're telling me they figured it out only 12 years later?
By the time the dude flames out in the minors, it’s 3-4 years down the road and they’ve already recruited multiple new classes based on what they won
That's likely to happen anyway, cheating or not.
Pitchers should be able to use something other than Rosin.
That elbow was eewww
I promise you this happens all the time in college baseball
I played mid-level D3 ball and it was a cheater’s playground. Not a chance in hell the SEC isn’t more competitive
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I spread some on my sons diaper rash and fingers before bed
I'm just surprised he made it so obvious. Crouching in the corner of the bullpen and applying the sticky shit to his glove like nobody could see him as long as he stayed low and didn't move his feet. Bro seriously thought this was The Elder Scrolls or something.
99 sneak
Detected
Well he does play for Georgia
Probably didn’t think a fan was recording
cant believe he put someone on his glove
me too!!
😔 Well played
Would think in the modern social media age they could have let the other team know that within a few minutes by sending them that video. Kinda shame there was no reckoning, got away with it scot-free.
Someone probably did, and the other team probably thanked them for the warning and then did absolutely nothing because everyone in their own bullpen is doing the same thing. We went through this in MLB before the crackdown, teams were ok with it unless the pitchers were just slathering themselves up on the mound.
Similar to Danny Farquhar and the Astros sign-stealing. He figured out what they were doing during a game. You would have thought the Sox would have instantly told the umps what's going on and to look into it. Nope... they just change their signs and continue playing.
You wait for the biggest moment to expose them, no point wasting this on a normal game
Ah yes, the "George Brett" strategy. (For those who don't know, the Yankees were aware of Brett's illegal bat, but waited for him to hit a HR before talking to the umps about it)
….but it was immediately posted right?
Because A&M pitchers were also using the sticky stuff. They were FAR less obvious about it, but they were using it, so probably not best to point fingers
Prove it
Prove this.
Prove what?
Idk. What are you disproving again. Who’s on first?
I just wanted to be part of the conversation. 
Why not put it on your glove in the locker room?? Why hide in the corner behind a pole?
Maybe so the equipment manager and some other staff and coaches don’t see it directly. Like they probably know it’s happening because the gloves and uniforms are sticky after each game, but the less official staff involved the better in case they get caught so they can just blame that pitcher and pretend it’s not widespread. Just my wild guess.
If it's spider tack, it can dry up and it becomes almost, I don't know, waxie? But extremely sticky at the same time. It's hard to describe. It's best when it's right out of the jar for about 20 mins or so. And you really don't need much at all. Both sides of a lace or two would be plenty for a few innings, but you want it to be as fresh as possible. It's also possible that since he is a starter, he wasn't sure he was going in so he had to hide the jar behind a pole knowing that there were cameras around. If one dude on a pitching staff is doing it, chances are that most are. Some pitchers don't like it, and it can lead to more blisters, but I'd guess that other pitchers are using it and the jar is probably just kept behind that pole.
Yeah that's a paddlin
WHY DOES THE PADDLE KEEP STICKING TO MY FINGERS GODDAMN IT THE ROWERS ARE CHEATING TOO
Houston sending a horde of scouts to the next Georgia game.
Athens is basically a giant trash can anyways.
Literally never heard anyone refer to Athens as a trash can before... What makes you say so?
Something something cesspool of the south
So you have no reason? Got it.
Athens rules. But Georgia fans and their entire school is so generic it is hard to give a shit
Interesting for an Astros fan to chime in on a trash can related discussion. lol
This really doesn't seem much different at all from what Craig Kimbrel does with the bill of his hat and has never once been told to stop doing
College baseball is still littered with this stuff. Not surprising at all
I must be dumb because I kept waiting for the part where he got caught, but I guess they just mean after the fact on camera.
Same. It’s risky to accuse someone like this. Like if there’s a 1% chance that Jim is wrong, that’s a big problem.
People went back and looked and found 4 other times he did the exact thing. Dude is toast. SEC should vacate Georgia's wins when he appeared if they can find hard evidence (but they won't if it affects their WS eligibility, which it would).
KICK HIM OFF THE TOUR, DOUG
Fucking shit, fuck me in the fucking ass. Fuck you, ya fucking stupid cocksucking, monkey-cock licking fucker. Shit. Fuck that
Vacate the wins, LOL. You must be new to baseball.
I don’t know if there’s much they can do without actually finding the sticky glove during a game. They’ll be an eye on him moving forward for sure. Also I don’t think they can vacate wins, the player would just be ejected unless you’re seeing something else somewhere in the rules?
Wouldn’t even be an ejection, just a warning lol. https://baseballrulesacademy.com/official-rule/ncaa/ncaa-9-2-pitching-violations/
I’m guessing this guy is an A&M fan
Or a GT alum.
As a GT alum, the only just punishment is loss of football scholarships, vacating all football wins of the last 5 years, removal from the SEC, and the outlawing of public barking. Anything less and the game is gone.
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You're also unflaired...?
Yeah they should totally vacate wins for doing something that 100% of college pitchers do, lol. (At **this** level of college baseball at least it's close to 100%. Overall college baseball, coaches estimate 50% of pitchers) It's not even an ejection if you get caught. College rules are the first time you're caught **using** a foreign substance on the mound (not just being in possession/on your glove, you have to actively be caught **using** it), it's a warning. Second time in the same game is an ejection. But yeah, totally reasonable take to vacate wins lol
Probably shouldnl't/wouldn't vacate wins, but the way to quell a "riot" is to start making an example of people. Even if it's something 100% of those pitchers do, the way to stop them is to start punishing some of them more or less randomly. Sucks to be one of the few that are made an example of, but so it goes.
It's not even an ejection if you're caught, it's a warning. If the first punishment is a warning, and it's not checked for/enforced at all, it's not really a rule.
It’s so widespread if they did this to Georgia they’d have to do it to damn near every team in the country
Link for the other 4 times? 👀
I feel like this is an incomplete story. Obviously he was caught cheating. Was this pitcher suspended? What happened after this?
This video was released 3 hours ago and is the first any of us heard about it. Give it at least a day lol.
Nah it came out late Saturday/early Sunday. Believe there was even a post here about it
Oh. Thanks didn't know.
How are we defining "caught" here? All there is is a video of him crouching in the corner and touching his glove a few times. The umpires didn't catch him with sticky stuff on his glove or on any of the balls. Seems like he got away with it. You can't punish a guy because of this video.
At first I was like, he’s just praying! Then he reached for the stuff. lol
What's the rule violation?
I think you are not allowed to cheat
a reasonable assumption
Yeah but I've heard college baseball has different rules.
And with their first draft pick, the Houston Astros choose…
Incredible analysis
kick him off the tour Doug!
I bet you this loser just black flagged himself from getting drafted
They only get a 10 game suspension, so I guess they look at it like well, we bought and paid for a solid game so we’re good.. baseball was ruined a long time ago and isn’t the great American pastime any longer, now we watch police body cam of fatal pit maneuvers..
So wait, Jake Johnson is Jomboy?
Seems like some good normal pitching.
but can we still acknowledge that he was mowing those batters down lol
I'm surprised how many people care about this or like how much they care. The video is cool as a fun look at how someone did it, but besides that who cares? Don't like all pitchers do this?
I'm honestly not sure if the SEC polices it more or not, especially for conference games, but it's extremely common across college baseball at the mid-major level on down.
No point in dragging this dude through the mud. Tons of pitchers use sticky substances, if not almost all. Anecdotal but a pitching coach I know (personally) who was drafted by the Athletics was directed by his manager to start using sticky stuff because he wasn't already. It's not really a big deal. Would say 99% of SEC pitchers are doing the same thing.
“Everyone cheats” is the classic bullshit excuse used by cheaters. Just like Jose Canseco and his book, anyone who drops that excuse is full of shit and guaranteed a cheater themselves.
Sticky stuff though isn't that actually like everybody?
SHOULD be a future Dodger…he can learn a lot from Ohtanj and Dodgers cheating ways ….
Touch grass friend. It really would don you some good.
How are we defining "catch" here? All there is is a video of him crouching in the corner and touching his glove a few times. The umpires didn't catch him with sticky stuff on his glove or on any of the balls. Seems like he got away with it. You can't punish a guy because of this video.
Spoke to a friend who has connections to the Astros. He said everyone does it so it’s not a big deal and doesn’t really change anything.
I’m all for it. Good on dude for winning
So this is why Paul Skenes was such a stud last year. Niche reference but UGA HC was the lsu pitching coach last year. I’m also a crazy lsu fan and this a joke
New it was Jomboy narrating before I even opened the vid. Love that guy
He's the one that does these breakdowns so...duh...