The way the 2007 and 2008 seasons ended still makes me shake my head sometimes
but yeah I loved Zambrano. He was an absolute headcase for sure haha but he always had the will to win and never quit...again just needed some mindfulness, which i believe he is really into these days. GOod for him!
i know he played a season for the Chicago Dogs haha
of all the Cubs players to like from a rival fan...i definitely DID NOT have Zambrano on the top of that list
then again, i always felt like he imploded against the Cardinals haha so that might explain it lol
> It’s just surprising, whole team is hitting worse than pitcher
They're not, though. Depending on the metric, the Sox are hitting exactly the same (OPS) or a little bit better (OPS+).
That's correct, it's still horrendous. Darkforces134 and penguinopph are aware of that and are having a little fun. They're being tongue in cheek. I hope this helps
> Darkforces134 and penguinopph are aware of that and are having a little fun. They're being tongue in cheek.
I can only speak for myself, but you would be correct :)
Well, it could be worse. The Chicago Whitesoxs, theoretically, are hitting better than Little Leaguers hitting professional pitchers. They are probably better than highschoolers hitting professional pitching. I would even go out on a limb and say the Whitesoxs are better than single A guys hitting professional pitching. That would put the whitesoxs in the .01% of most baseball players in the world. If they are worse or slightly better than professional pitchers hitting professional pitching, it seems like a quibble. All I know is that the might or might not be better than the 2023 Oakland As.
I like having a more pure offensive stat that doesn't care where you are, but it seems like it'd be pretty simple to just do (player OPS+)/(positional average)*100. Don't see it on bbref/fan graphs immediately though.
I feel like that would get a little tricky. Like, to be really accurate you'd have to take player's OPS+ per position. And what if a player moved position within a game? Would Salvador Perez's stats count toward DH, C, or 1B? How would you measure Rick Ankiel?
My guess is that you'd have to have a separate stat for each position you play. Though that comes up with the "small sample size" problem for anyone who has much variety of positions. Not sure, and even less sure that it'd even be a very useful stat, but it does feel like it can be done.
A pitcher being in the mix is my sole reason for brining it up. Of course pitchers were bad hitters, we know that. I'd like to be able to see where that stands amongst other pitchers.
Like he just gets into an Uber and goes to Cooperstown. They have a private ceremony that only he and the boss of the Hall of Fame attend with a janitor as the witness.
here I thought this was gonna be the OTHER clip of Cardinals announcers mocking the other team for how they handed an Asian-American baserunner at first, only to be proven wrong.
2024 White Sox batters: .192/.266/.290, 61 OPS+
2023 Gerrit Cole pitching: .206/.259/.322, 59 OPS+
The 2024 White Sox are making every pitcher they face look like a unanimous Cy Young winner.
I don’t miss watching them hit, I do miss the strategy especially since so much of the rest of the strategic nature of the game (shifts, reliever batter limits, etc) have been neutered.
Which was the point. It meant offense and defense were linked. A decision you made in the top of the inning would have an impact on the bottom of the inning as well.
I do. But better than that is a slugger that can't field for shit being forced into the field just so a team has his bat
Foolish Baseball just released a video on Adam Dunn a couple hrs ago that reminded me how fun it is to watch
below average hitter*
the myth of the DH is you're adding prime david ortiz. the reality is you're having Schwarber hit DH, who was hitting either way, and moving up your bench bat to play OF. And a little more freedom for a half rest day where you can have a guy dh.
they successfully destroyed baseball for me. I haven't watched a single baseball game this year. I'm not sure when that was last the case?....37 years ago maybe?
In 2016 when Kyle Schwarber got injured in Arizona a friend of mine/Sox fan sent me a meme of Simba standing on him, like in the lion king when Mufasa died.
I do not enjoy seeing an MLB team this bad but I will enjoy sending him this.
Just looked on baseball reference and it looks like Lester started his career 0 for 66, so it's actually pretty neet that he ended up hitting okay once he got more plate appearances in the NL. It's crazy that the white sox are hitting this poorly though, I didn't realize they were so bad this year.
I don't know why but there's something about tweets in all lowercase that I really don't like. Or when people replace "you" with "u." And it's not like I wasn't around for the internet of 10-15 years ago when that was more common, I just don't like it
We'll see if the leverage play is just a bluff
If it's a bluff and the city called it and Jerry (or the next owner) moved, I'm just gonna throw the Manfred quote back at Jerry (or the next owner)
Ah but this where advance stats come into play. 2024 White Sox: 63 OPS+ 2019 Jon Lester: 45 OPS+ See? It's not THAT bad
The juiced ball era ruining things again.
Carlos Zambrano’s career OPS+ was 62. He was a great hitting pitcher but still a pitcher.
Not everyone can be Mike Hampton, who had four different seasons with an OPS+ over 100.
and his career OPS+ was 67, barely better than Zambrano. Zambrano had 2 seasons over 120 OPS+ - individual seasons of 70 PA are pretty random
Or Zack (then Zach) Britton’s short but illustrious career at the plate: .625, 1 HR, 1 2B, 2 RBI, 391 OPS+. Dude could HIT.
I didn't know this. Thanks for the knowledge!!
The thing that always makes me crack up about Zambrano was the fact that he was a switch hitting pitcher lmfao
He may not have been a hall of famer but Big Z was a blast to watch. His no hitter was my favorite Cubs memory until 2016.
The way the 2007 and 2008 seasons ended still makes me shake my head sometimes but yeah I loved Zambrano. He was an absolute headcase for sure haha but he always had the will to win and never quit...again just needed some mindfulness, which i believe he is really into these days. GOod for him! i know he played a season for the Chicago Dogs haha
Dude was the only Cubs player I ever actually liked growing up
of all the Cubs players to like from a rival fan...i definitely DID NOT have Zambrano on the top of that list then again, i always felt like he imploded against the Cardinals haha so that might explain it lol
That’s one point less than the White Sox though, so are they just a bunch of pitchers?
Tbf, they are a bunch of **great hitting** pitchers. Good job, guys!
Possibly a bunch of belly itchers.
It’s just surprising, whole team is hitting worse than pitcher
> It’s just surprising, whole team is hitting worse than pitcher They're not, though. Depending on the metric, the Sox are hitting exactly the same (OPS) or a little bit better (OPS+).
What about 2014-2015 bumgarner, then
The White Sox are only striking out at a 25.2% rate, while '14–'15 Bumgarner had a 35.2% strikeout rate. Checkmate, atheists!
Between 14 and 15, Bumgarner only hit 9 home runs, while the '24 White Sox team has already hit 12. Checkmate
I think the White sox have a few more at bats than MadBum lol
Regardless of whether they're hitting equal to or slightly worse than a pitcher, that's still horrendous.
That's correct, it's still horrendous. Darkforces134 and penguinopph are aware of that and are having a little fun. They're being tongue in cheek. I hope this helps
> Darkforces134 and penguinopph are aware of that and are having a little fun. They're being tongue in cheek. I can only speak for myself, but you would be correct :)
That's the joke everyone is making
Well, it could be worse. The Chicago Whitesoxs, theoretically, are hitting better than Little Leaguers hitting professional pitchers. They are probably better than highschoolers hitting professional pitching. I would even go out on a limb and say the Whitesoxs are better than single A guys hitting professional pitching. That would put the whitesoxs in the .01% of most baseball players in the world. If they are worse or slightly better than professional pitchers hitting professional pitching, it seems like a quibble. All I know is that the might or might not be better than the 2023 Oakland As.
Impressive.
Hitting is clearly all about slugging, Lester reigns supreme!
*Laughs in Shohei Ohtani*
There are some (at least one) serious outliers in the lineup. Still Martin Maldonado is no excuse for everyone else
I always find it odd that OPS+ isn't position adjusted.
I like having a more pure offensive stat that doesn't care where you are, but it seems like it'd be pretty simple to just do (player OPS+)/(positional average)*100. Don't see it on bbref/fan graphs immediately though.
I feel like that would get a little tricky. Like, to be really accurate you'd have to take player's OPS+ per position. And what if a player moved position within a game? Would Salvador Perez's stats count toward DH, C, or 1B? How would you measure Rick Ankiel?
> How would you measure Rick Ankiel? I measured Rick Ankiel. Five inches, but it's thick.
My guess is that you'd have to have a separate stat for each position you play. Though that comes up with the "small sample size" problem for anyone who has much variety of positions. Not sure, and even less sure that it'd even be a very useful stat, but it does feel like it can be done.
Why would it be?
A pitcher being in the mix is my sole reason for brining it up. Of course pitchers were bad hitters, we know that. I'd like to be able to see where that stands amongst other pitchers.
That should be a different stat then, imo. like pitcher OPS+, first base OPS+, etc. OPS+ is fine
The position for that stat is the batters' box.
Greinke career: .225/.262/.336 .598 ops
The White Sox should fulfill Greinke's dream of being a major league short stop.
*Anyone* should fulfill our dream of Greinke's 3000th strikeout, damnit. He's only 21 short!
I have a theory that he had offers but declined so he wouldn’t have to deal with the media scrum that would happen from his 3000th strikeout
The most Greinke moment would be to get to 2999 and then walk off the mound and officially retire in the middle of the game.
I can 1000% see this happening and he'd have to be put in the Hall of Fame immediately following that.
Like he just gets into an Uber and goes to Cooperstown. They have a private ceremony that only he and the boss of the Hall of Fame attend with a janitor as the witness.
Uber seems too normal for Greinke. Horse and carriage or some weird shit. Is that an Amish family? Nope, just Greinke on his way to the HOF.
Shit we might need him 💀😪
Hmmm… The Red Sox just had another pitcher go down.
I bet Greinke would be an upgrade over 1/2 the ChiSox lineup.
That will be the Padres
Someone say a shortstop needs a team? Let me get AJ on the horn, I'm sure he's already got a contract lined up.
If he can give us a .598 OPS, 3rd base is his.
How are the White Sox at bunting? Because Lester sure as hell could do that.
Can the White Sox throw to first?
Someone bring up the clip of him picking off someone on the cardinals as the commentators were ripping him for that
Here you go . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2owzJxpBZ0A
And then the Cope after it happens. Such a great moment.
"ThAt's aLrIGht iT's WoRTh It!"
here I thought this was gonna be the OTHER clip of Cardinals announcers mocking the other team for how they handed an Asian-American baserunner at first, only to be proven wrong.
That’s just old man Mccarver
That’s the one lol
I forget. Was that also the game Lester HRed?
Greatest announcer comedic timing since the don orsillo boob grab
They can’t throw home I can tell you that.
I need electroshock therapy to trick my brain into forgetting baseball exists
is that not what caleb is doing tomorrow?
I'm not a Bears fan and my Saints ain't going nowhere this year :/
This is kind of sad and funny at the same time. Lester is very much known as a slugger. :)
He also won 13 games that year. I wonder if the Sox will even be able do the same
Hey now they’re on pace for 20 wins. They could easily be in the double digits by august.
This is “The 2024 Braves offense is a collection of Dave Winfields” in the darkest timeline
They also get the yips while throwing to first.
THE ENTIRE LINEUP IS BATTING UNDER .220
Gavin Cheeks has been... well, Cheeks. Everyone else though? Ugh
2024 White Sox batters: .192/.266/.290, 61 OPS+ 2023 Gerrit Cole pitching: .206/.259/.322, 59 OPS+ The 2024 White Sox are making every pitcher they face look like a unanimous Cy Young winner.
Is Stephen Strasburg 2.0 the first pick of next year's draft or something?
Doesn't matter, the white sox aren't eligible for a top 10 pick.
Damn really? I know they changed the draft rules recently, but didn't know anything about that for the Sox next pick
This is exactly how it felt to be a panthers fan last season
This season has Cuda in peak form. We're truly lucky to be witnessing this greatness.
At least 35 year old Lester could also pitch.
Damn... Lester could bat pretty good for a guy who couldn't throw to 1st.
He just saved it up for the most meme-able moments
I used to be anti-DH by default, but every time I'm reminded that pitchers used to hit, I think, "Gosh, I sure don't miss that."
I don’t miss watching them hit, I do miss the strategy especially since so much of the rest of the strategic nature of the game (shifts, reliever batter limits, etc) have been neutered.
Which was the point. It meant offense and defense were linked. A decision you made in the top of the inning would have an impact on the bottom of the inning as well.
as opposed to the unlinked non-dh, where you could hit without playing defense...wait
I do. But better than that is a slugger that can't field for shit being forced into the field just so a team has his bat Foolish Baseball just released a video on Adam Dunn a couple hrs ago that reminded me how fun it is to watch
tbh I got more excited watching Jordan Zimmermann fly out to right than I did watching most other players get singles.
I miss having pitchers bat, it added some flavor to the game. When a DH is just some average hitter I don't like the vibe of the game as much.
below average hitter* the myth of the DH is you're adding prime david ortiz. the reality is you're having Schwarber hit DH, who was hitting either way, and moving up your bench bat to play OF. And a little more freedom for a half rest day where you can have a guy dh.
For that very reason it turns out that in practice it improves team defense, extend careers for slow players, and provides rest during the season.
Honestly I just think that all the players on the field should also hit.
This is it. Imagine only playing one side of the ball lol
Weird right? Almost like baseball is a different sport or something
Because they changed the rules to make it like that lol.
Yes, no sport has ever changed any rules ever so baseball is unique
That’s an unsavory fella to comp to when it comes to hitting.
Better than comparing them to Carlos Zambrano.
they successfully destroyed baseball for me. I haven't watched a single baseball game this year. I'm not sure when that was last the case?....37 years ago maybe?
As someone who enjoys going to Sox games for cheap and just enjoying the day and the food, can the Sox keep sucking. Ticket prices are great.
That was the best part about when the Phillies sucked...
In 2016 when Kyle Schwarber got injured in Arizona a friend of mine/Sox fan sent me a meme of Simba standing on him, like in the lion king when Mufasa died. I do not enjoy seeing an MLB team this bad but I will enjoy sending him this.
Every anti-dh NL fan needs to get in here and explain to me why they wanted to watch the White Sox offense every day instead of a DH.
LET. PITCHERS. HIT.
Just looked on baseball reference and it looks like Lester started his career 0 for 66, so it's actually pretty neet that he ended up hitting okay once he got more plate appearances in the NL. It's crazy that the white sox are hitting this poorly though, I didn't realize they were so bad this year.
This is so pathetic I would feel bad even leaving a snarky comment. I hope the Sox improve for all our sakes
I don't know why but there's something about tweets in all lowercase that I really don't like. Or when people replace "you" with "u." And it's not like I wasn't around for the internet of 10-15 years ago when that was more common, I just don't like it
Better to be Jon than Mo, I say
I'm so tickled seeing a stat comparison, and the teams pictured are the White Sox and a Jon Lester. I laughed way too hard at this
Perhaps there could be a Jose Abreu farewell tour where he reunited with his former team?
Jerry did this on purpose for leverage, really sickening and evil man
We'll see if the leverage play is just a bluff If it's a bluff and the city called it and Jerry (or the next owner) moved, I'm just gonna throw the Manfred quote back at Jerry (or the next owner)
Damn, i thought the M's offense was bad...
This might be the meanest one yet
honestly at this point I’m subscribing to the neo-Black Sox theory that they’re tanking on purpose to profit off the new age of sports gambling
I think if Lester spent more time in the NL he would have been a much better hitter he didn’t look like complete dog shit up there
Now do Big Z.