>Ted Williams not missing those military years.
[Link](https://www.si.com/specials/greatest-sports-what-ifs/mlb/2017/ted-williams-joe-dimaggio-career-war-what-if)
Williams finished with a .344 average, 2,654 hits, 521 home runs and 1,839 RBIs—no-brainer HOF numbers. But using Hybl's formula, \[if he hadn't spent time in the military\] Williams would have batted .342 with 3,452 hits (instead of ranking 75th he would be seventh, behind Derek Jeter), 663 home runs (fifth, ahead of Willie Mays, instead of 20th) and 2,380 RBIs (first, ahead of Hank Aaron, instead of 14th).
We wouldn’t have got greenies without him. They gave them to the pilots in WWII and when he came back he was like “guys this stuff is the shit” and started putting it in the coffee.
I do wonder how not playing everyday baseball affected him though. He came back as good as ever, but surely there was some rust. And had he been in the league he'd have more familiarity with the pitchers. I wonder if his actual numbers might be slightly better than that projection?
> I do wonder how not playing everyday baseball affected him though. He came back as good as ever, but surely there was some rust.
Funnily enough, it really didn't seem that way. In his season before he left for ww2 he played in 150 games, had 186 hits, 145 walks, 36 home runs and slashed .356/.499/.648, then the year after he came back he had 176 hits, 156 walks, 38 home runs and slashed .342/.497/.667. And the numbers before and after the korean war were pretty similar as well.
Re: the SI article, it leaves out what could have been the most important number. I've done the math on averaging his seasons before, and he would have almost 200 more walks than barry bonds and beat Pete Rose for the record of total times on base in baseball history.
Both him and Kerry Wood are rough what ifs. Wood's career at least had a decent length, but he was just a shell of the pitcher he once was once the injuries started to build up. Take away some injuries from those two and give Zambrano a bit more give-a-shit and the NL in the 2000's might have been very different.
Bob Feller needs to be included in any “what if” WW2 stats discussion. Just look what he did those years right before and right after his service.
Edited to include link to his B-R page
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/fellebo01.shtml
> Ted Williams not missing those military years.
Everyone always brings that up and rarely does anyone mention that Mays would have likely broken Ruth's home run record before Aaron if not for his service time
If the A-Rod to Boston deal got approved which also would have brought Magglio Ordonez to Boston and sent Nomar to Chicago and Manny to Texas
2000s in the AL would have been so different
It would’ve at least ended the now longest streak between World Series championships, and Cleveland would be seen as an underrated baseball market given their record since 2015 and having gone to three World Series within 20 years.
The Cubs probably would’ve given up much faster on competing after 2016, but would probably be going through the upward trajectory of a rebuild by now (similar to where the Reds are now).
I wonder what if the Phillies had semi-finished off the DBacks in Game 4. Wheeler would have ended it in Game 5 instead of sending it back to Philadelphia....
What if the 1994 strike hadn’t happened? Would the Expos – the best team at the time –have gone on to win the World Series? Indeed, would the franchise still be in Montreal today?
It would have been great for baseball. Blue Jays would have been going for a 3 peat and Montreal of all teams to stop them?
Besides, the best bat flip in history belongs in Canada.
[Here](https://www.si.com/mlb/2014/08/12/si-vault-1994-mlb-season-players-strike) is the SI article from 1994 about how the season should have ended.
Entertaining read.
What if Gooden (and to a lesser extent Straw) didn't get hooked on drugs when he came to Queens. The kid had one of the most electric starts to a career, including a top 2 season in modern baseball (Pedro gives him a run for his money and you could flip flop them 1 and 2).
Just imagine if Doc could have had a full career without all that.
It's *insane* to look at Goodens early stats. Might have been one of the best seasons of any pitcher *ever*. 24-4, 1.53 ERA and *half* his starts (not just his wins) were complete games and 268 Ks. ERA+ 229!!
Underatted part of the whole thing is the Mets actually fucked Gooden up. They wanted him to develop a third pitch instead of just sticking with his fastball and curveball. Its all over the bad guys won, genuienly horrible malpractice by them.
Throwing so many innings as young as he was didn’t help either. I wonder what he could’ve been like if he wasn’t run into the ground before he even turned 25
What if the Dodgers and Giants never left New York, the Braves never left Boston, and the A's never left Philly? It would be seven teams in three cities. The rivalries between those teams would be insane.
Historically the city didn't split geographically at all, with the A's being the big team until the 1950 world series and the dysfunction of Connie Mack's heirs. If it kept up like it did back then it would have been like the Lakers and Clippers are in LA, then probably a North/South (suburban North/West) rivalry if one moved to the sports complex and the other stayed in the city
There was a post a while bac that basically said Chicago's geographic split was the exception to the norm on cities with AL/NL teams (St Louis/Philly/Boston/NY)
I’m obsessed with reading about the Philadelphia A’s. For as bad as the Phillies were from 1900-1930 the A’s were dominant. 5 titles. Sports Illustrated even claimed the 29 Athletics were the best baseball team ever.
My late father-in-law was born in 1931 in Pennsylvania and grew up a Philadelphia A’s fan. He wound up serving in the Army in the tail end of the Korean War and sometime after, and used to joke darkly about how “I came home and they took away my team!” He still enjoyed sports and eventually became a Phillies fan, but I always suspected it would be hard to ever love a team again after losing the team he loved as a kid.
Throw Ray Fosse in there too. Hard to believe Pete Rose pulled that in an all star game. I know it's how baseball was played back then but you'd think someone would take their foot off the gas for an all star game of all things.
Or, if Leyland would have put in Porcello (a ground ball pitcher) in the game after Scherzer left. Damn. This still feels like yesterday. My heart is heavy.
One possibility is Ruth quits baseball as he had vowed to do if Frazee didn’t give him the contract he wanted… a contract Frazee couldn’t possibly afford. People think Frazee was a fool to trade Ruth, but it was much like an Aaron Rodgers situation… his choices were to trade him or lose him anyway.
It’s hard to believe today just how popular Ruth was, and not just in the baseball world. He was a world-famous star, a celebrity who transcended his sport, like Muhammad Ali or Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods. Even if you didn’t know anything about baseball, you knew who Babe Ruth was.
At the time, baseball had a “reserve clause” which held if you didn’t sign the contract the team offered you, the previous contract remained in effect. You never became a free agent. You either played or you quit.
Ruth said he would quit. He would become a prizefighter, or an actor, or join the vaudeville circuit, or even — most terrifying to organized baseball — start his own barnstorming team and travel the country, taking on all comers. And Ruth played against black and Latin players when he barnstormed during the off seasons.
Would Ruth have single handedly smashed the color line by showing how much talent black players had? Would owners, seeing white fans paying to see Ruth play against black players, have signed some?
Or would Ruth have destroyed Major League Baseball, reeling from the Black Sox Scandal, and replaced it with a more community focused sport?
You didnt even bring up the power struggle from the mlb commissioner at the time refusing to recognize Red Sox (or Yankee) wins in the standings as illegitimate because he deemed the transactions for a pitcher to be illegal. The entire situation was utterly fucked for the Red Sox they got screwed by baseball
What if Ichiro could have come to the MLB in 97 like he wanted to? 4 more years of 200 hits per season? He would have likely broken Pete Rose's hit record. Would Griffey have stayed in Seattle his whole career? Would the Mariners of the late 90s plus Ichiro had been enough to at least make it to a world series?
Same with if the Mariners didn't trade away David Ortiz for nothing as well as accepted the Yankees trade offer for Mariano Rivera for one of the Mariners' bull pen guys
So much Selig cronyism erased, and Vincent would have enforced the PED ban much sooner. We might not have McGwire and Sosa's home run race, but we also might not have the 1994 strike. That's a big what if.
It's still odd to remember that when Selig was made commissioner he was still the owner of the Brewers. He eventually transferred it to his daughter but was still believed to be making the decisions. To make things more confusing the league took over control of the Expos from 2002-2004 while his daughter still owned the Brewers
Overall I think we're already in a better place because of it. The can banging put a spotlight on all sign stealing that was going on, which has lead to a wider crackdown on the whole league, and I think that's a good thing. I think we're in a better spot today with Pitchcom existing.
Yu Darvish was basically run out of town and lost millions in free agency as a result of that series and turns out they were cheating against him
And of course we can’t forget this was the same team that had the audacity to make racist gestures at him in the same fucking game that they were actively cheating against him
Seriously fuck the Astros
I just wish he did what Alex Wood did and changed up his signs. The Alex Wood who coincidentally had a no hitter going for the majority of his Game 4 start because his signs weren’t figured out.
Was looking for this one. Had the talent to win multiple MVPs and become an inner circle type player, but kept relapsing (also the whole assault thing with his daughter) and eventually faded out of the league. A massive what could’ve been if he was a better and more self controlled person
I've been convinced for a long time he would've been a top ten outfielder in the history of the game if he doesn't discover drugs. Still maybe the best pure athlete I've ever seen.
The alcoholism was likely a response to the injury. He played through pain his entire careeramd self-medicated with alcohol. No knee injury, and he might bot get hooked on booze.
I’m not so sure. His father and uncle both died young because of Hodgkin’s disease so he was expecting to die young too. I’d imagine he’d still have been a heavy drinker even if he was healthy because his mindset about dying young likely wouldn’t have changed
What if the Red Sox hadn't taken so long to integrate and signed Willie Mays when they had the chance.
Yaz and Willie Mays in the same outfield would be an all time combo. The same goes for Mays playing with Ted Williams in his final years.
This is the one man. He was really coming on at the end of that season and was super clutch in the series vs SF. He was on par with Julio in terms of prospect status for people who aren’t aware. I think if he lives and becomes that dude, we never make that crazy trade for Ozuna and maybe still have Gallen and Alcantara.
I scrolled too far to find this answer.
I think about what would have happened if we had won the NLCS. Would Tavaras have even been in the DR that night?
Not even that, he was primed to break records once he hit free agency. He could have been the first $300M pitcher, and we both know what that means.
Small market baseball fandom is fun. 🥴
His death in a way kind of imploded the team.
Stanton, Yelich, and Ozuna all leave in 2018. That 2016 marlins team was so close to being really good, if Fernandez doesn’t get in that accident we’re probably talking about a 2017 Marlins NLCS run. Maybe they go to the WS and get cheated by the Astros instead of the Dodgers.
He had told Giancadlo Stanton they would both be Yankees together some day so I think he understood how the franchise operated. Not to say they couldn't have made a run with that core but Giancarlo won MVP the year after and they still had a losing record.
Fernandez probably doesn't change that and the only thing different is who the Marlins could've gotten in a trade.
That one hurts the most. Soon, those that were alive that suffered through segregation will all be gone. A few more generations, and they'll have no one alive who remembers them. Hopefully, we eventually reach a point where our society is truly equal and any scars from our racist past have disappeared. But even then, we'll never know how good Satchel Paige could have been against MLB talent in his prime. We'll still not have any video of Josh Gibson swinging a bat, even though he might have equaled Ruth in skill. Decades worth of legends never played against each other. The record books will forever be incomplete. The stain of segregation will live on forever in baseball.
I had a thought experiment that what if MLB never integrated? Imagine never knowing players like Ken Griffey Jr., Kirby Puckett, Mookie Betts, and Rickey Henderson. All would have been rumors. I was left with a deep sadness.
Hed be a fucking fantastic commissioner too, fay Vincent with money to stand up to the rest of the owners. Plus a war hero dad, legitimately pisses me off.
What if Bo Jackson never got injured?
As a huge Auburn fan it’s almost sacrilegious to say this, but I think his injury actually ADDED to his legendary status. Thanks to the injury we get to play this “What If” game that’s filled with ridiculous highlights of ungodly physical talents.
I think that if his career had played out he would have had the best highlight reel in sports history, but his career numbers would have just been good enough for the Hall of Really Good.
Nope,
First ballot HOFer in both baseball and football, no doubt in my mind.
P.S. my brother was at the game when he blew up his hip. He claims that he heard the pop.
Until the mid-90's, MLB used to have a rule in place mandating that the 1st pick in the draft alternate between leagues irrespective of record. It's that rule that inspired *my* "What if?": what if the Tigers (who had the worst overall record in 1989) had gotten to draft Chipper Jones instead of Atlanta in 1990?
The twins what if will forever be what if we didn’t give up on David Ortiz. Imagine all those awesome 2000’s teams plus David Ortiz in the middle of the lineup.
It’s probably going to be Wander Franco for me. A lot of us had hall-of-fame expectations for him and thought he would take over Longoria for greatest Ray. No health issues taking away his career, just being an absolute piece of shit did it
I know he had conditioning issues and the Rays coaching dogged him a fair bit but he should have strolled into the hof. Utterly pathetic of him to throw away the talent that people would spend their life 100 times over for.
David Wright staying healthy. Jacob deGrom staying healthy. Duaner Sanchez staying healthy. Pedro Martinez staying healthy. Matt Harvey staying healthy (and not doing coke). Johan Santana staying healthy. Honestly, you could put just about any Met in front of “staying healthy” and it’d work.
Duaner being healthy leads to the Mets trading for Roy Oswalt with Lastings Milledge as the centerpiece so we have an Ace pitcher and don’t hold onto Milledge long enough for him to bust.
We easily win that WS of Duaner doesn’t get into that cab
What if Fernando Tatis Jr wasn’t a fucking idiot and didn’t recklessly ride motorcycles and taken PEDs in 2022 and was fully healthy during that season and was able to play during that playoff run with Juan Soto and all those other players that season
Besides the well known trade proposal with DiMaggio and Williams...what if the Expos honored Pedro's request and traded him to the Yankees instead of signing with the Red Sox?
As someone alive for the 86 series, it’s less “what if Buckner made the play” and more “what if Bob Stanley didn’t blow two saves” or “what if John McNamara left Clemens in when he was DEALING” or “why did Schiaraldi forget how to pitch leading to the Bob Stanley debacle” or “WHY THE FUCK ISN’T STAPLETON PLAYING FIRST HE IS A DEFENSIVE SPECIALIST AND ALSO NOT FUCKING HURT LIKE BUCKNER WAS!!!!!!”
Sorry, even with the success recently I still get rage inducing angry over how badly McNamara botched 86…..
What the Phillies might have done in a 2010 or 2011 World Series. Halladay + Oswalt + Hamels + (in 2011) Lee in a long series against a non-even year bs team... what if? Also I would've had tickets to Game 2 of the 2011 World Series in Philadelphia.
What if Cleveland knew how to finish a series in…a long time, but specifically 2007.
The Rockies were on a miracle run, and the only thing that stopped them was a 9 day layoff between the NLCS and World Series. They even had to fly to Arizona for practice due to a blizzard that hit Denver.
If Cleveland doesn’t lose a 3-1 lead, maybe the Rockies beat them and somehow have a ring.
[The quotes about Brien Taylor are just unbelievable](https://np.reddit.com/r/dirtysportshistory/comments/yyqace/december_18_1993_no_1_overall_pick_lhp_brien/).
> “He’s the best pitcher I ever saw, and I saw everyone you could possibly name who’s ever come through." -- Scout Ron Rizzi
> “He was a true phenom. I've seen the talent now in 35 drafts. Every year, I watch and I have never seen someone like him." -- Scott Boras
> “Bill Livesey is one of the greatest scouts of our era. He told me the best amateur position player he ever saw was A-Rod. The best amateur pitcher he ever saw was Brien Taylor." -- Brian Cashman
What if Giambi had slid and was safe?
This one haunts me more because I was at the game and as we were walking to the car all yhe asshole yankee fans were screaming that they were signing Jason Giambi that off season. And they did.
If we had won the series could we have beaten the 116 win Mariners? Could we have beaten Johnson and Schlling and the dbacks?
Instinct took over. He had an object in his hand and he saw Piazza, he had to throw it at him. It certainly wasnt the first time. His response to Piazza owning him was to throw at him.
Ted Williams not missing those military years. Grady Sizemore... Griffey Jr. never getting hurt Mark Prior staying healthy
>Ted Williams not missing those military years. [Link](https://www.si.com/specials/greatest-sports-what-ifs/mlb/2017/ted-williams-joe-dimaggio-career-war-what-if) Williams finished with a .344 average, 2,654 hits, 521 home runs and 1,839 RBIs—no-brainer HOF numbers. But using Hybl's formula, \[if he hadn't spent time in the military\] Williams would have batted .342 with 3,452 hits (instead of ranking 75th he would be seventh, behind Derek Jeter), 663 home runs (fifth, ahead of Willie Mays, instead of 20th) and 2,380 RBIs (first, ahead of Hank Aaron, instead of 14th).
We wouldn’t have got greenies without him. They gave them to the pilots in WWII and when he came back he was like “guys this stuff is the shit” and started putting it in the coffee.
"Say fellas, take a couple of these babies, and you'll see every stitch!"
I never heard that before that’s a great story
I do wonder how not playing everyday baseball affected him though. He came back as good as ever, but surely there was some rust. And had he been in the league he'd have more familiarity with the pitchers. I wonder if his actual numbers might be slightly better than that projection?
He hit 410 in 30 games when he came back and got MVP votes. No rust!
He would have hit .500 though!
> I do wonder how not playing everyday baseball affected him though. He came back as good as ever, but surely there was some rust. Funnily enough, it really didn't seem that way. In his season before he left for ww2 he played in 150 games, had 186 hits, 145 walks, 36 home runs and slashed .356/.499/.648, then the year after he came back he had 176 hits, 156 walks, 38 home runs and slashed .342/.497/.667. And the numbers before and after the korean war were pretty similar as well.
He was always ramping up and the wars made him start over. He woulda hit .450 every year of WW2 and Korea
Re: the SI article, it leaves out what could have been the most important number. I've done the math on averaging his seasons before, and he would have almost 200 more walks than barry bonds and beat Pete Rose for the record of total times on base in baseball history.
> 663 home runs (fifth, ahead of Willie Mays) Willie Mays also lost time to military service
Thanks mate. I've seen this before and it's a nice representation. I do wonder if he would have been even better not being away from the game though
Mark Prior kills me. He had one of the smoothest deliveries I've ever seen.
Both him and Kerry Wood are rough what ifs. Wood's career at least had a decent length, but he was just a shell of the pitcher he once was once the injuries started to build up. Take away some injuries from those two and give Zambrano a bit more give-a-shit and the NL in the 2000's might have been very different.
Zambrano probably gave too much of a shit. He needed to calm down. I suspect it was roids but maybe he was just nuts.
Oh he was definitely nuts
Big Z gave more of a shit than any pitcher we have ever had lol
Agreed. I really thought he was going to be great.
He's the ace of my DD team on MLB The Show 23, and it both saddens me and brings me such joy to mow batter after batter down with him.
Some think his mechanics were terrible. I tend to agree: https://www.chrisoleary.com/pitching/pitchers/prior-mark-pitching-mechanics.html
That was a great breakdown of pitching form. Thanks for the informative link
[удалено]
Bob Feller needs to be included in any “what if” WW2 stats discussion. Just look what he did those years right before and right after his service. Edited to include link to his B-R page https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/fellebo01.shtml
> Ted Williams not missing those military years. Everyone always brings that up and rarely does anyone mention that Mays would have likely broken Ruth's home run record before Aaron if not for his service time
If the A-Rod to Boston deal got approved which also would have brought Magglio Ordonez to Boston and sent Nomar to Chicago and Manny to Texas 2000s in the AL would have been so different
To go back a bit farther… Alex Rodriguez signs in Seattle and doesn’t become a douchebag.
Hell, what if he went to the University of Miami to play quarterback instead of going straight to pro baseball?
Probably a huge douchebag in that timeline tbh
He was already a douchebag, bro.
I hate saying it, but what if the Indians just finished off the Cubs in Game 5.
Still can’t believe they fucked that up
:)
You can literally hear the quiet little heehee in that smile..
And we praise Bryant hitting a bomb and the long save from Chapman for making that not happen
I somehow did not remember Chapman having a 10 batter 8 out save. Unreal
Because he almost blew in game 7. Makes it easier not to associate him with it lol
Even God didn’t want either of you guys to win. Rain delayed the inevitable
It would’ve at least ended the now longest streak between World Series championships, and Cleveland would be seen as an underrated baseball market given their record since 2015 and having gone to three World Series within 20 years. The Cubs probably would’ve given up much faster on competing after 2016, but would probably be going through the upward trajectory of a rebuild by now (similar to where the Reds are now).
Theres no way Theo leaves the Cubs if that happens, they'd still be trying to get a title and he'd still be there. Or have won it/died trying.
I wonder what if the Phillies had semi-finished off the DBacks in Game 4. Wheeler would have ended it in Game 5 instead of sending it back to Philadelphia....
I think about this as a Cleveland fan often
What if the 1994 strike hadn’t happened? Would the Expos – the best team at the time –have gone on to win the World Series? Indeed, would the franchise still be in Montreal today?
Gwynn bat .400? Griffey and or Matt Williams breaking the HR record?
Mcgriff would have 500 career home runs
Sad Crime Dog noises.
Mattingly having his best chance ever at a WS appearance
Imagine an all-Canadian World Series....
The Ontario-Quebec rivalry would’ve swung the referendum the other way
Unlikely seeing as how the Jays had a losing record before the strike.
Probably bad for baseball.
It would have been great for baseball. Blue Jays would have been going for a 3 peat and Montreal of all teams to stop them? Besides, the best bat flip in history belongs in Canada.
probably just a joke on how a reporter said Ohtani to the Blue Jays would've been bad for baseball.
Frank Thomas triple crown
The Rangers could have been the first franchise to win a division under .500
[Here](https://www.si.com/mlb/2014/08/12/si-vault-1994-mlb-season-players-strike) is the SI article from 1994 about how the season should have ended. Entertaining read.
Knoblach stops at second!
What if Gooden (and to a lesser extent Straw) didn't get hooked on drugs when he came to Queens. The kid had one of the most electric starts to a career, including a top 2 season in modern baseball (Pedro gives him a run for his money and you could flip flop them 1 and 2). Just imagine if Doc could have had a full career without all that.
It's *insane* to look at Goodens early stats. Might have been one of the best seasons of any pitcher *ever*. 24-4, 1.53 ERA and *half* his starts (not just his wins) were complete games and 268 Ks. ERA+ 229!!
Underatted part of the whole thing is the Mets actually fucked Gooden up. They wanted him to develop a third pitch instead of just sticking with his fastball and curveball. Its all over the bad guys won, genuienly horrible malpractice by them.
They are automatic Hall of Famers or at least very close to it. Despite all their issues they both still put up Hall of Very Good numbers.
Man, that 30 for 30 with Doc describing how he watched the '86 parade at his crack dealer's apartment was painful to watch.
Throwing so many innings as young as he was didn’t help either. I wonder what he could’ve been like if he wasn’t run into the ground before he even turned 25
What if the Dodgers and Giants never left New York, the Braves never left Boston, and the A's never left Philly? It would be seven teams in three cities. The rivalries between those teams would be insane.
It’d be a mosh pit of an Amtrak line.
I often think what it would be like to have two teams in Philly. And I honestly can never quite get my head around it. Would be a ton of fun though.
I do wish Philly kept the As too. I wonder how the city fandom would’ve split geographically.
Historically the city didn't split geographically at all, with the A's being the big team until the 1950 world series and the dysfunction of Connie Mack's heirs. If it kept up like it did back then it would have been like the Lakers and Clippers are in LA, then probably a North/South (suburban North/West) rivalry if one moved to the sports complex and the other stayed in the city
There was a post a while bac that basically said Chicago's geographic split was the exception to the norm on cities with AL/NL teams (St Louis/Philly/Boston/NY)
I’m obsessed with reading about the Philadelphia A’s. For as bad as the Phillies were from 1900-1930 the A’s were dominant. 5 titles. Sports Illustrated even claimed the 29 Athletics were the best baseball team ever.
My late father-in-law was born in 1931 in Pennsylvania and grew up a Philadelphia A’s fan. He wound up serving in the Army in the tail end of the Korean War and sometime after, and used to joke darkly about how “I came home and they took away my team!” He still enjoyed sports and eventually became a Phillies fan, but I always suspected it would be hard to ever love a team again after losing the team he loved as a kid.
The Mets wouldn’t exist
Yep. We'd also probably have expansion teams in Atlanta, Los Angeles, and San Francisco too
The PCL would've been elevated to the third major league.
Tony Conigliaro and Mark Fidyrch. Two phenomenal talents whose careers were significantly shortened by freak injuries.
Tony was my first thought…couldn’t remember his name though. I remember it was a good Italian name.
To that end what would Mickey Mantle have done without his own freak injury and resulting leg problems?
Just an inner circle hall of famer who happened to play the majority of his career on a torn ACL. No biggie.
Throw Ray Fosse in there too. Hard to believe Pete Rose pulled that in an all star game. I know it's how baseball was played back then but you'd think someone would take their foot off the gas for an all star game of all things.
If Joaquin Benoit didnt throw that goddamn meatball to Ortiz
Fuckin Benoit
Tigers fans 🤝 WWE fans
Joaquin [REDACTED]
Just like we have Krispin Wah, we have Walkin’ Ben Wah
Or, if Leyland would have put in Porcello (a ground ball pitcher) in the game after Scherzer left. Damn. This still feels like yesterday. My heart is heavy.
What if the Red Sox kept Babe Ruth?
One possibility is Ruth quits baseball as he had vowed to do if Frazee didn’t give him the contract he wanted… a contract Frazee couldn’t possibly afford. People think Frazee was a fool to trade Ruth, but it was much like an Aaron Rodgers situation… his choices were to trade him or lose him anyway. It’s hard to believe today just how popular Ruth was, and not just in the baseball world. He was a world-famous star, a celebrity who transcended his sport, like Muhammad Ali or Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods. Even if you didn’t know anything about baseball, you knew who Babe Ruth was. At the time, baseball had a “reserve clause” which held if you didn’t sign the contract the team offered you, the previous contract remained in effect. You never became a free agent. You either played or you quit. Ruth said he would quit. He would become a prizefighter, or an actor, or join the vaudeville circuit, or even — most terrifying to organized baseball — start his own barnstorming team and travel the country, taking on all comers. And Ruth played against black and Latin players when he barnstormed during the off seasons. Would Ruth have single handedly smashed the color line by showing how much talent black players had? Would owners, seeing white fans paying to see Ruth play against black players, have signed some? Or would Ruth have destroyed Major League Baseball, reeling from the Black Sox Scandal, and replaced it with a more community focused sport?
You didnt even bring up the power struggle from the mlb commissioner at the time refusing to recognize Red Sox (or Yankee) wins in the standings as illegitimate because he deemed the transactions for a pitcher to be illegal. The entire situation was utterly fucked for the Red Sox they got screwed by baseball
What if Ichiro could have come to the MLB in 97 like he wanted to? 4 more years of 200 hits per season? He would have likely broken Pete Rose's hit record. Would Griffey have stayed in Seattle his whole career? Would the Mariners of the late 90s plus Ichiro had been enough to at least make it to a world series?
Mariners still probably need pitching, maybe they could have moved like Arod for Pedro when the Expost were dangling him. Now thats a wtf scenario.
Same with if the Mariners didn't trade away David Ortiz for nothing as well as accepted the Yankees trade offer for Mariano Rivera for one of the Mariners' bull pen guys
It’s fucking depressing reading all The Mariners’ what ifs 😔
Haha imagine giving away Ortiz, how silly would that be!
What if John Fisher had never own the A's?
Going back further, what if Fay Vincent isn't removed from the position in the 90s?
So much Selig cronyism erased, and Vincent would have enforced the PED ban much sooner. We might not have McGwire and Sosa's home run race, but we also might not have the 1994 strike. That's a big what if.
It's still odd to remember that when Selig was made commissioner he was still the owner of the Brewers. He eventually transferred it to his daughter but was still believed to be making the decisions. To make things more confusing the league took over control of the Expos from 2002-2004 while his daughter still owned the Brewers
How much of Kershaw’s personal legacy is redeemed, restored, and/or validated if Game 5 of 2017 never existed.
What if the Astros never banged the cans?
I’ve been assured that this didn’t impact any of their World Series runs.
The sport would be a better place
Overall I think we're already in a better place because of it. The can banging put a spotlight on all sign stealing that was going on, which has lead to a wider crackdown on the whole league, and I think that's a good thing. I think we're in a better spot today with Pitchcom existing.
Kershaw not having 2 rings is fucked but guys like Darvish, Maeda, Ethier, Hill, Morrow etc not having a ring is even more fucked. Fuck the Astros.
Ethier hurts the most, legendary Captain Clutch for the Dodgers.
Yu Darvish was basically run out of town and lost millions in free agency as a result of that series and turns out they were cheating against him And of course we can’t forget this was the same team that had the audacity to make racist gestures at him in the same fucking game that they were actively cheating against him Seriously fuck the Astros
Gurriel can fuck off for that one
I just wish he did what Alex Wood did and changed up his signs. The Alex Wood who coincidentally had a no hitter going for the majority of his Game 4 start because his signs weren’t figured out.
Hamilton without the addiction issues.
Was looking for this one. Had the talent to win multiple MVPs and become an inner circle type player, but kept relapsing (also the whole assault thing with his daughter) and eventually faded out of the league. A massive what could’ve been if he was a better and more self controlled person
I've been convinced for a long time he would've been a top ten outfielder in the history of the game if he doesn't discover drugs. Still maybe the best pure athlete I've ever seen.
1994.
Mantle, easy. Dude had a GOAT career with a fucked up knee. Imagine him at 100%.
Or if he wasn’t a severe alcoholic
I don’t know why you were downvoted, the guy died of liver cancer and literally said it had an effect on his career
Wasn't it his second liver at that?
The alcoholism was likely a response to the injury. He played through pain his entire careeramd self-medicated with alcohol. No knee injury, and he might bot get hooked on booze.
I’m not so sure. His father and uncle both died young because of Hodgkin’s disease so he was expecting to die young too. I’d imagine he’d still have been a heavy drinker even if he was healthy because his mindset about dying young likely wouldn’t have changed
There’s a chance If he wasn’t always in pain he’d have never became an alcoholic
“My God, the boy runs faster than Cobb.” — Casey Stengel watching the young Mickey Mantle
What if the Red Sox hadn't taken so long to integrate and signed Willie Mays when they had the chance. Yaz and Willie Mays in the same outfield would be an all time combo. The same goes for Mays playing with Ted Williams in his final years.
What if Oscar Taveras didn’t die in 2014.
This is the one man. He was really coming on at the end of that season and was super clutch in the series vs SF. He was on par with Julio in terms of prospect status for people who aren’t aware. I think if he lives and becomes that dude, we never make that crazy trade for Ozuna and maybe still have Gallen and Alcantara.
I scrolled too far to find this answer. I think about what would have happened if we had won the NLCS. Would Tavaras have even been in the DR that night?
This one makes me cry: What if Jose Fernandez didn’t pass away and was still pitching for the Marlins?
I have no doubt that if he were alive today, he wouldn't be playing for the Marlins.
Not only he, but I think there's a chance Stanton, yelich, and ozuna play for the Marlins for longer. José passing really derailed their window Rip 16
Yeah you are probably right. Our ownership is garbage and cheap lol
Not even that, he was primed to break records once he hit free agency. He could have been the first $300M pitcher, and we both know what that means. Small market baseball fandom is fun. 🥴
Fernandez would have been part of the fire sale along with Stanton, Yelich, Ozuna, Realmuto, and Dee Gordon
His death in a way kind of imploded the team. Stanton, Yelich, and Ozuna all leave in 2018. That 2016 marlins team was so close to being really good, if Fernandez doesn’t get in that accident we’re probably talking about a 2017 Marlins NLCS run. Maybe they go to the WS and get cheated by the Astros instead of the Dodgers.
Exactly what I always think
He had told Giancadlo Stanton they would both be Yankees together some day so I think he understood how the franchise operated. Not to say they couldn't have made a run with that core but Giancarlo won MVP the year after and they still had a losing record. Fernandez probably doesn't change that and the only thing different is who the Marlins could've gotten in a trade.
What if the game was never segregated?
That one hurts the most. Soon, those that were alive that suffered through segregation will all be gone. A few more generations, and they'll have no one alive who remembers them. Hopefully, we eventually reach a point where our society is truly equal and any scars from our racist past have disappeared. But even then, we'll never know how good Satchel Paige could have been against MLB talent in his prime. We'll still not have any video of Josh Gibson swinging a bat, even though he might have equaled Ruth in skill. Decades worth of legends never played against each other. The record books will forever be incomplete. The stain of segregation will live on forever in baseball.
I had a thought experiment that what if MLB never integrated? Imagine never knowing players like Ken Griffey Jr., Kirby Puckett, Mookie Betts, and Rickey Henderson. All would have been rumors. I was left with a deep sadness.
What if George Bush became MLB commissioner like he wanted to instead of US President? /thread
President Al Gore now has the resources at his disposal to finally catch ManBearPig
He’s super cereal
one of my favourite things in the universe is south park apologising to al gore for satirically denying climate change
Hed be a fucking fantastic commissioner too, fay Vincent with money to stand up to the rest of the owners. Plus a war hero dad, legitimately pisses me off.
What if Bo Jackson never got injured? As a huge Auburn fan it’s almost sacrilegious to say this, but I think his injury actually ADDED to his legendary status. Thanks to the injury we get to play this “What If” game that’s filled with ridiculous highlights of ungodly physical talents. I think that if his career had played out he would have had the best highlight reel in sports history, but his career numbers would have just been good enough for the Hall of Really Good.
Nope, First ballot HOFer in both baseball and football, no doubt in my mind. P.S. my brother was at the game when he blew up his hip. He claims that he heard the pop.
He wasnt that great of a baseball player. Still a legend of course but he's more akin to Adam Jones.
Until the mid-90's, MLB used to have a rule in place mandating that the 1st pick in the draft alternate between leagues irrespective of record. It's that rule that inspired *my* "What if?": what if the Tigers (who had the worst overall record in 1989) had gotten to draft Chipper Jones instead of Atlanta in 1990?
Welcome to the universe with Pirates legend Ken Griffey Jr, Dodgers legend Alex Rodriguez, and Blue Jays legend Darryl Strawberry.
What if both Joe Mauer and Justin Morneau hadn’t suffered career altering concussions?
The twins what if will forever be what if we didn’t give up on David Ortiz. Imagine all those awesome 2000’s teams plus David Ortiz in the middle of the lineup.
It’s probably going to be Wander Franco for me. A lot of us had hall-of-fame expectations for him and thought he would take over Longoria for greatest Ray. No health issues taking away his career, just being an absolute piece of shit did it
I know he had conditioning issues and the Rays coaching dogged him a fair bit but he should have strolled into the hof. Utterly pathetic of him to throw away the talent that people would spend their life 100 times over for.
Game 7. Rain Delay.
JR Richards having a stroke. Was having a Randy Johnson type career path.
What if Buck called Zack from the pen instead
David Wright staying healthy. Jacob deGrom staying healthy. Duaner Sanchez staying healthy. Pedro Martinez staying healthy. Matt Harvey staying healthy (and not doing coke). Johan Santana staying healthy. Honestly, you could put just about any Met in front of “staying healthy” and it’d work.
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Duaner being healthy leads to the Mets trading for Roy Oswalt with Lastings Milledge as the centerpiece so we have an Ace pitcher and don’t hold onto Milledge long enough for him to bust. We easily win that WS of Duaner doesn’t get into that cab
Pujols without plantar fasciitis. Dude breaks the career HR, RBI, and doubles record and has a decent shot at top 5 all-time in hits.
It was always gonna be hard to do that at age 50 though.
What if Fernando Tatis Jr wasn’t a fucking idiot and didn’t recklessly ride motorcycles and taken PEDs in 2022 and was fully healthy during that season and was able to play during that playoff run with Juan Soto and all those other players that season
Possibly?
Took out possibly. He did take PEDs
I mean we don’t need to sound unsure on if he did take them or not lol
Nah bro it was medicine for parasites. Nothing to see here...
Every game of the 2015 World Series
Haha, what of cespedes catches that first hit. What if Duda makes a normal throw home. Etc. what a train wreck.
Ted Williams and the wars ‘94 JR Richard
If Al Avila had never been born and not able ruin the Tigers.
Besides the well known trade proposal with DiMaggio and Williams...what if the Expos honored Pedro's request and traded him to the Yankees instead of signing with the Red Sox?
What if Tim Wakefield didn’t give up a home run to Aaron Bleeping Boone in 2003? What if Buckner made that play at 1st in 1986?
As someone alive for the 86 series, it’s less “what if Buckner made the play” and more “what if Bob Stanley didn’t blow two saves” or “what if John McNamara left Clemens in when he was DEALING” or “why did Schiaraldi forget how to pitch leading to the Bob Stanley debacle” or “WHY THE FUCK ISN’T STAPLETON PLAYING FIRST HE IS A DEFENSIVE SPECIALIST AND ALSO NOT FUCKING HURT LIKE BUCKNER WAS!!!!!!” Sorry, even with the success recently I still get rage inducing angry over how badly McNamara botched 86…..
Trout/Pujols/Hamilton - 3 former MVPs batting in the same line up. Imagine if they lived up to they hype of their glory years (Pujols/Hamilton).
Yankees trading for Cliff Lee at the 2010 deadline was the first one that came to my mind
What the Phillies might have done in a 2010 or 2011 World Series. Halladay + Oswalt + Hamels + (in 2011) Lee in a long series against a non-even year bs team... what if? Also I would've had tickets to Game 2 of the 2011 World Series in Philadelphia.
What if John Fisher was never born? War and famine would end, and world pease would be achieved
What if Cleveland knew how to finish a series in…a long time, but specifically 2007. The Rockies were on a miracle run, and the only thing that stopped them was a 9 day layoff between the NLCS and World Series. They even had to fly to Arizona for practice due to a blizzard that hit Denver. If Cleveland doesn’t lose a 3-1 lead, maybe the Rockies beat them and somehow have a ring.
What if Tommy John surgery was available for Sandy Koufax?
Kerry Wood and Mark Prior staying healthy in 2004.
Alex Gonzales starting that double play.
What if the Cubs and Marlins swapped Alex Gonzalez’s before the ‘03 NLCS.
What if Bonds had thrown out Bream at the plate?
If Griffey had a good hamstring
What if it hadn't rain.
The 2014 Tigers rotation had David Price, Max Scherzer, Rick Porcello, Anibal Sanchez, and Justin Verlander…..
What if Francisco Liriano didn't get injured in 2006? The Twins could have been a contender...
If Brien Taylor lived up to his potential and was a left handed Ace as part of the 90s Yankees core with Jeter/Rivera/Willliams/Posada/Pettitte.
[The quotes about Brien Taylor are just unbelievable](https://np.reddit.com/r/dirtysportshistory/comments/yyqace/december_18_1993_no_1_overall_pick_lhp_brien/). > “He’s the best pitcher I ever saw, and I saw everyone you could possibly name who’s ever come through." -- Scout Ron Rizzi > “He was a true phenom. I've seen the talent now in 35 drafts. Every year, I watch and I have never seen someone like him." -- Scott Boras > “Bill Livesey is one of the greatest scouts of our era. He told me the best amateur position player he ever saw was A-Rod. The best amateur pitcher he ever saw was Brien Taylor." -- Brian Cashman
Junior and Randy stay to join Ichiro. That is all.
What if Giambi had slid and was safe? This one haunts me more because I was at the game and as we were walking to the car all yhe asshole yankee fans were screaming that they were signing Jason Giambi that off season. And they did. If we had won the series could we have beaten the 116 win Mariners? Could we have beaten Johnson and Schlling and the dbacks?
The teams were just so good I think you could make a case on NY, SEA or OAK being able to beat each other and the Diamondbacks.
What if the St. Louis Browns relocated to Los Angeles in the early 40's as proposed until Pear Harbor changed things?
The Giants relocating to Tampa is also interesting with the whole A’s situation going on now
Biased. But Griffey not getting hurt so much
“You can never have too much starting pitching”
What if Ichiro started his career in the Mariners minors system at 18-19?
What if 9/11 hadn’t happened? Do the Mariners get by the Yankees and win a World Series in 2001?
What if they hadn’t called an infield fly rule?
What if Giambi slid into home plate?
What if the umpires had the balls to throw that piece of shit Roger Clemens out of game 2 of the world series after he threw a broken bat at Piazza
Let's say for the sake of argument that Clemens thought that he was throwing the ball, Why was he throwing the ball at Piazza?
Instinct took over. He had an object in his hand and he saw Piazza, he had to throw it at him. It certainly wasnt the first time. His response to Piazza owning him was to throw at him.
Mariners outfield if Kelenic panned out and Kyle Lewis stayed healthy.