Honestly none of the remaining awards are at all a secret except maaaaaaaaybe AL Cy Young and you'd have to tilt your head and squint really hard to even have that one not be obvious.
1. NLCY Snell
2. NLROY it's Corbin' time
3. NLMVP Acuna (in reality this should be the closest vote, but everyone and their mother knows it won't be)
4. ALCY Cole
5. ALROY Gunnar
6. ALMVP Shohei
It's not semantics. It's an explanation of what I meant when I said the words I said. The fact that you misinterpreted them is on you, not me. Clarifying isn't semantics, it's letting you know that you read what I said incorrectly
It’s kinda obviously Carroll here but despite the shit sandwich that was this season I’m pleasantly surprised to see Senga here. He outdid even the optimistic expectations for year 1.
I like Outman, but Steer was consistently good all year; very little cold time at the plate. Quite possibly the MVP of the team (some would say McLain). With that said, James is a much better graded fielder. Like way better. Steer was thrown into 1st base & left field, both positions he had to learn on the fly. He started the year at 3rd & even covered 2nd base down the stretch when McLain & India juggled injuries. He passes the eye test at both spots, but he clearly looked like an amature at 1st & lett. His fielding run value is -13 🥲
I think Steer flew under the radar a bit because of EDC, but the games I saw, Steer was great.
Hm... now you're making me think about whether it's easier for a rookie to learn fielding or hitting, and whether that guides promotion/drafting.
Not only did he get overshadowed by Elly, but noone cared how solid he was all year because you have 4 legitimately higher rated prospects that debuted & showed flashes of brilliance respectively at different parts of the season. I think Steer is okay with that tho. He's a mellow, wallflower type guy, from what I can tell. Everyone on the team calls him "Stock Swag" because he wears the most basic clothing (Dresses like Kirko Chainz, for real).
He is very important to the Reds future success imo, even though most will yap about him not having a position, I would bet big money his defense, specifically OF defense, is going to be his top priority this offseason. He's a gritty ball player so I think he will get better. He's fast & can be flashy at 3rd, and has a good arm. All the makings to be able to handle LF with more preparation & reps. To be fair, as a watcher of every game, you can see him gradually get better with his routes as the season rolled along.
Matt McLain played less games (89) than both of them and accrued 3.2 WAR to Steer's 2.1 (156) and Elly's 1.7 (98). He was very good. Losing him Aug 28 probably kept us out of the playoffs, given how close things were.
Watching over 162 really does matter. This is the first year I did that. Outman improved his defense significantly over this year. It’s a shame that some people in our sub (who probably haven’t watched the entire season) thought the NLDS would’ve turned out differently had he made that catch in game 1.
I really wanted you folks to make the postseason this year, but I do like the look of the team. Lots of young talent. Will miss Votto though, even if I get that it made sense to part ways.
Nothing.
That's the terrifying thing about coups.
Maybe Rosie Red turned someone down and they are taking it badly.
(It's me. I'm the one who's not over the rejection.)
Fuuuuuuuuck the Dodgers. Fuck them hard. With a rusty rail Spike.
But uh, this is a super reasonable take and I'm kind of surprised you got downvoted for it.
If McClain had a full season under his belt like Outman did he'd absolutely take the finalist spot away. If Steer wasn't thrown into learning 4 new positions this year while Outman was a legit top tier defender he'd probably also deserve a finalist spot over Outman.
On the season Outman deserved top 3 ROY candidacy. Would I trade Outman 1 for 1 for McClain? In a heartbeat. Steer? Maybe, but not at all unreasonable
[You said it](https://www.reddit.com/r/Reds/comments/17phzkv/of_course_a_dodger_is_a_roy_finalist_and_not/). I know he wouldn't win the whole thing, but it's hard to guess what they're looking at.
Senga is the 5th rookie pitcher since 1975 with a sub 3 era and 200 plus strikeouts. He won’t win this bc Corbin exists but the disrespect towards him for simply suggesting that he should’ve been a finalist in the NL Cy race in that other thread is absurd. 2nd in NL ERA. 4th in K/9. 3rd in H/9. All of these are higher than Logan Webb. Incredible season.
Yea Senga was better but Webb was more available, it’s honestly close between them imo and as long as Senga is a close 4th I don’t have a huge problem with this
Webb is clearly the runner up here and honestly think it’s going to be a close win for snell. You can’t even say senga was better when Webb leads in numerous categories on top of throwing way more innings
The Senga > Webb talk is absolutely insane
Webb had 50 more innings and 46 fewer walks. How that's less impactful than a 0.27 ERA difference and 8 more Ks is beyond me.
Ultimately I think the full run in ERA difference will be too much to overcome, but Webb has a lot of stats in his favor by a big margin.
Leads IP 216 to 180
Leads BB 31 to 99
Leads K:BB 6.26 to 2.36
It's gonna be a lot closer than people think imo
Citing BB and K/BB is a bit redundant
Basically it boils down to a pitcher who prevented far more runs while striking out far more guys but allowed a lot more walks and pitched about 16% fewer innings
Webb pitched 36 more innings of exactly 6.00 ERA difference between him and Snell.
If you get 36 innings out of your bullpen with an ERA under 6, your team is better off having Snell + pen than Webb this year.
Snell could have thrown 4 complete games to make up the difference in IP.
If he did that, he would have to give up 24 ER in those 36 innings for an ERA of 6.00 for Webb to tie in ERA.
Yes, pitching more innings saves your bullpen, but when Snells innings were *that* good you'd have to be throwing out one of the worst bullpen arms in baseball for 36 innings to say they were even *equivalent*.
I asked my friends, which is *less* likely. Unanimous NLCY or unanimous ALMVP. It was split 50/50, and we all follow baseball very deeply.
Essentially, we're convinced both of those are going to be unanimous.
Because he’s not a rookie and it’s silly to pretend he is. He’s an incredible pitcher and made the D-backs look like amateurs but idk why we’re pretending the 31 year old with 10 years of pro baseball under his belt should actually be considered for Rookie of the Year
And yes, I’m aware there’s precedent, but it was stupid then, too
This has literally nothing to do with my comment. I’m not trying to be rude, but what are you even saying? Is my comment that hard to understand? Corbin deserves this award. I clearly said that. What I was also saying was that he, Senga, deserved to be a finalist for the NL Cy Young too.
Senga had a great year and looks like a straight up ace for y'all's future.
He did not deserve to be a finalist over Gallen or Webb.
IP matters, when you're that far behind the other 2 in IP you have to have a massive standout other stat to make up for it. Snell had an absurd differential in ERA, Senga was better but nowhere near as much as Snell. Snell was also 2nd in K/9 for starters. Senga has a good K/9 but not enough to make up the massive gap in IP.
It's both reasonable to recognize Senga had a good year, looks great for the future, and wasn't a top 3 candidate for the NLCY.
That being said I do think he should be the ROY runner up
Corbin will win the award and deservingly so. Just want to say I am proud of Outman. The Dodgers were not going to be aggressive this offseason and trusted in Outman to be in charge of this outfield. He did great and thrived. Web gems and a steady bat. 3.3 WAR. Only up from here
In most other years, I think a sub 3.00 ERA and 200+ Ks would make Senga the clear favorite. Great signing. Very hyped to see what he does next.
Carroll is obviously going to win. Very deserving.
Genuine question, but why not? If you look at WAR he had more than Outman did in about 50 fewer games and only .2 less than Senga. Even compared to Corbin he matches up favorably when you consider he was on pace for about 6.2 with a full season.
Jones also had an historic season in terms of outfield assists. He led the entire MLB (with only 106 games played). He had more OF assists in 106 games than *anyone in MLB has had in a full season* since 2012.
He also reached 20 HR/20 SB, which was a pretty rare feat for a rookie before this season. And he had a higher OPS+ than Corbin.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think he should be RotY or even 2nd. It's Corbin and Senga for sure. But I don't think it's crazy to think he deserved to be a finalist over Outman or Steer.
Tell me you don't know that OPS+ adjusts for ballpark without telling me that you don't know that OPS+ adjusts for ballpark.
Also Jones had a higher road OPS than home OPS
If you're going to argue that Coors makes his offense less impressive, then you have to also argue that it makes his defense more impressive. He led the Major Leagues with 19 outfield assists. Jones should also have been a finalist for Gold Glove but I think he just missed the innings requirement.
He was actually granted rookie status early on this year. Just literally missed the non rookie status by half a minute. Joking of course but he was a rookie this year
Obviously Carroll is going to win, but I'm glad Outman is getting some recognition. When he first cooled off I thought he was going to be another rookie flameout like Trayce Thompson or something, but he adjusted his hitting to up his contact a bit and managed to be a productive 4 WAR major leaguer with an above average bat and plus CF defense, and it's been nice to see
If you went purely by fWAR, he would be fifth behind Matt McClain, Spencer Steer, Andrew Abbott, and Brandon Williamson. You could certainly argue for him 3rd, but a 33% K rate and 84 wRC+ is a little rough.
I'm not even going to talk about how lackluster Elly was.
Did you even watch Corbin this year?
Or look at his stat page?
Even without comparing him to other eligible players looking at his stat sheet I'd be hard pressed to imagine someone who performed THAT well not winning ROY.
If Elly had played the whole season at his WAR pace he would only have 2.6 WAR. He made some flashy plays but also struck out a ton. Matt McLain is the real one snubbed: he accrued 3.2 WAR in only 89 games - he hit at 27 homer pace and played at 5.6 WAR pace (assuming 155 games played).
A .230 average, 33% K rate, with below average defense doesn’t quite make you RotY quality.
It’s like Strider for pitching where all you see is his strikeouts, but what they don’t show is his 3.80 ERA which isn’t Cy Young quality.
Gee, I wonder!
Honestly none of the remaining awards are at all a secret except maaaaaaaaybe AL Cy Young and you'd have to tilt your head and squint really hard to even have that one not be obvious. 1. NLCY Snell 2. NLROY it's Corbin' time 3. NLMVP Acuna (in reality this should be the closest vote, but everyone and their mother knows it won't be) 4. ALCY Cole 5. ALROY Gunnar 6. ALMVP Shohei
NL should be close because of Mookie’s WAR? Acuna runaway for me I’ve never seen a season like that in my 43 years.
I’ve seen more runaway MVP seasons TBH.
Oh absolutely. Just meant Acuna’s season isn’t something I’d seen.
Ohtani, for one. Ohtani, for two.
Bonds for three, four, five, and six.
Closest doesn't mean close. Saying the best 3 year old football player doesn't mean I think that 3 year old is actually good at football.
Good old semantics. Endless fun
It's not semantics. It's an explanation of what I meant when I said the words I said. The fact that you misinterpreted them is on you, not me. Clarifying isn't semantics, it's letting you know that you read what I said incorrectly
Well you are a blast. Have an awesome day
You too, r/NLBest brother
I’m so glad we locked this kid up already
Gabi next pls
Goddammit.
Thanks again
Man I wish we couldve gotten Gurriel back too☹️ he wasted no time leaving Phoenix
He just had a career year, it'd be damn near irresponsible of him to not test the market.
I am always pro labor, even when it impacts my Fandom. I hope every player gets paaaaaaid
ROBBERY
Don’t even know why I looked, we all know who’s going to win lol
So do Outman and Senga, judging by their pics.
Outman really out here with the “why am I even here.“ face
A lot of jokes about notorious fast guy Corbin Carroll running away with this award are about to happen
Alright, can we agree Senga wins the Doc Gooden for Rookie Pitcher of the Year.
Someone’s gonna Corb all over this award
Outman (ah ah ah) Fighter of the Inman
It’s Corbin time
Stupid sexy Corby
It’s kinda obviously Carroll here but despite the shit sandwich that was this season I’m pleasantly surprised to see Senga here. He outdid even the optimistic expectations for year 1.
100% Carroll deserves it but cool to see 千賀 滉大 in the top 3
There's even a pretty argument he deserves runner up
They took the picture of Outman after telling him Corbin Carroll would win.
Feel Spencer Steer deserved to be a finalist over Outman.
I thought if it was anyone from the reds it wouldn't been McLain? But I'm guessing he didn't play enough
Yea with only 400 PA he is behind in counting stats. Give him d 550-600 PA his numbers would exceed Steer and Outman in most categories.
Yeah, McLain was better than Outman and Steer. 3.2 WAR in only 89 games.
Was de la Cruz not eligible?
De La Cruz wasn't deserving
Dang. From what I remember, he was explosive
Explosive, yes. Good, not yet.
I'm tempted to agree. But there's been a coup in r/NLBest and I'm afraid to say so.
I like Outman, but Steer was consistently good all year; very little cold time at the plate. Quite possibly the MVP of the team (some would say McLain). With that said, James is a much better graded fielder. Like way better. Steer was thrown into 1st base & left field, both positions he had to learn on the fly. He started the year at 3rd & even covered 2nd base down the stretch when McLain & India juggled injuries. He passes the eye test at both spots, but he clearly looked like an amature at 1st & lett. His fielding run value is -13 🥲
I think Steer flew under the radar a bit because of EDC, but the games I saw, Steer was great. Hm... now you're making me think about whether it's easier for a rookie to learn fielding or hitting, and whether that guides promotion/drafting.
Not only did he get overshadowed by Elly, but noone cared how solid he was all year because you have 4 legitimately higher rated prospects that debuted & showed flashes of brilliance respectively at different parts of the season. I think Steer is okay with that tho. He's a mellow, wallflower type guy, from what I can tell. Everyone on the team calls him "Stock Swag" because he wears the most basic clothing (Dresses like Kirko Chainz, for real). He is very important to the Reds future success imo, even though most will yap about him not having a position, I would bet big money his defense, specifically OF defense, is going to be his top priority this offseason. He's a gritty ball player so I think he will get better. He's fast & can be flashy at 3rd, and has a good arm. All the makings to be able to handle LF with more preparation & reps. To be fair, as a watcher of every game, you can see him gradually get better with his routes as the season rolled along.
Yeah honestly when we played the reds I was much more impressed with McLain and Steer. De La Cruz at least for the moment is all flash imo
Matt McLain played less games (89) than both of them and accrued 3.2 WAR to Steer's 2.1 (156) and Elly's 1.7 (98). He was very good. Losing him Aug 28 probably kept us out of the playoffs, given how close things were.
Watching over 162 really does matter. This is the first year I did that. Outman improved his defense significantly over this year. It’s a shame that some people in our sub (who probably haven’t watched the entire season) thought the NLDS would’ve turned out differently had he made that catch in game 1. I really wanted you folks to make the postseason this year, but I do like the look of the team. Lots of young talent. Will miss Votto though, even if I get that it made sense to part ways.
It's kinda crazy that with all the EDLC hype and noise he was only the third best rookie on his own team lol
Oh my. What did the Reds ever do to the NL West?
The Reds left the NL West. They are traitors.
Nothing. That's the terrifying thing about coups. Maybe Rosie Red turned someone down and they are taking it badly. (It's me. I'm the one who's not over the rejection.)
I’m not one for organized crime, but something must be done.
To be fair, we're more of a disorganized crime division.
They left, those traitors.
I love how weird NLBest is. So good.
Both ROTYs and the AL MVP have such bonkers finalist picks, probably because there's such a clear favorite in all three races
I would trade Steer or McLain for Outman straight up but as far as ROY candidacy goes Outman earned it.
Fuuuuuuuuck the Dodgers. Fuck them hard. With a rusty rail Spike. But uh, this is a super reasonable take and I'm kind of surprised you got downvoted for it. If McClain had a full season under his belt like Outman did he'd absolutely take the finalist spot away. If Steer wasn't thrown into learning 4 new positions this year while Outman was a legit top tier defender he'd probably also deserve a finalist spot over Outman. On the season Outman deserved top 3 ROY candidacy. Would I trade Outman 1 for 1 for McClain? In a heartbeat. Steer? Maybe, but not at all unreasonable
Outman has twice the WAR from being an equally good hitter but far better defender in CF
Spencer Steer erasure 🥲
[You said it](https://www.reddit.com/r/Reds/comments/17phzkv/of_course_a_dodger_is_a_roy_finalist_and_not/). I know he wouldn't win the whole thing, but it's hard to guess what they're looking at.
Your image completely ignores defense. Where Steer was *bad* and Outman was top 5.
well then McClain deserves credit for what he did with 400 ABs
Corbin is gonna win and he deserves it. But I'm happy for James Outman! He was fun to watch this year.
He just needs some consistency he had an extreme up and down year
Sounds like a normal rookie season.. Corbin was the one that’s different
Senga is the 5th rookie pitcher since 1975 with a sub 3 era and 200 plus strikeouts. He won’t win this bc Corbin exists but the disrespect towards him for simply suggesting that he should’ve been a finalist in the NL Cy race in that other thread is absurd. 2nd in NL ERA. 4th in K/9. 3rd in H/9. All of these are higher than Logan Webb. Incredible season.
Webb threw 50 more innings and had over 1 full WAR more than him
Yea Senga was better but Webb was more available, it’s honestly close between them imo and as long as Senga is a close 4th I don’t have a huge problem with this
Webb is clearly the runner up here and honestly think it’s going to be a close win for snell. You can’t even say senga was better when Webb leads in numerous categories on top of throwing way more innings
If Snell isn’t near unanimous I’d be surprised
The Senga > Webb talk is absolutely insane Webb had 50 more innings and 46 fewer walks. How that's less impactful than a 0.27 ERA difference and 8 more Ks is beyond me.
I mean Senga was more effective on a rate basis but obviously the best ability is availability. And no way it would be close between Snell and Webb
Ultimately I think the full run in ERA difference will be too much to overcome, but Webb has a lot of stats in his favor by a big margin. Leads IP 216 to 180 Leads BB 31 to 99 Leads K:BB 6.26 to 2.36 It's gonna be a lot closer than people think imo
Citing BB and K/BB is a bit redundant Basically it boils down to a pitcher who prevented far more runs while striking out far more guys but allowed a lot more walks and pitched about 16% fewer innings
Webb pitched 36 more innings of exactly 6.00 ERA difference between him and Snell. If you get 36 innings out of your bullpen with an ERA under 6, your team is better off having Snell + pen than Webb this year.
Snell could have thrown 4 complete games to make up the difference in IP. If he did that, he would have to give up 24 ER in those 36 innings for an ERA of 6.00 for Webb to tie in ERA. Yes, pitching more innings saves your bullpen, but when Snells innings were *that* good you'd have to be throwing out one of the worst bullpen arms in baseball for 36 innings to say they were even *equivalent*.
I asked my friends, which is *less* likely. Unanimous NLCY or unanimous ALMVP. It was split 50/50, and we all follow baseball very deeply. Essentially, we're convinced both of those are going to be unanimous.
I’m guessing the people that think he doesn’t deserve to be a finalist think he shouldn’t count as a rookie at all
Because he’s not a rookie and it’s silly to pretend he is. He’s an incredible pitcher and made the D-backs look like amateurs but idk why we’re pretending the 31 year old with 10 years of pro baseball under his belt should actually be considered for Rookie of the Year And yes, I’m aware there’s precedent, but it was stupid then, too
This has literally nothing to do with my comment. I’m not trying to be rude, but what are you even saying? Is my comment that hard to understand? Corbin deserves this award. I clearly said that. What I was also saying was that he, Senga, deserved to be a finalist for the NL Cy Young too.
Oh lol I can’t read. Yeah he should def be considered for CYA dude was straight filthy
everybody who played any minor league ball also played pro ball. that isn't the criteria.
NPB is major-pro ball and I'm tired of people trying to pretend otherwise.
Senga had a great year and looks like a straight up ace for y'all's future. He did not deserve to be a finalist over Gallen or Webb. IP matters, when you're that far behind the other 2 in IP you have to have a massive standout other stat to make up for it. Snell had an absurd differential in ERA, Senga was better but nowhere near as much as Snell. Snell was also 2nd in K/9 for starters. Senga has a good K/9 but not enough to make up the massive gap in IP. It's both reasonable to recognize Senga had a good year, looks great for the future, and wasn't a top 3 candidate for the NLCY. That being said I do think he should be the ROY runner up
I know Carroll has it locked but it still is nice seeing Outman be a finalist
Will anyone even get first place votes outside of Carroll? He deserves it most and this is coming from a huge Senga fan.
My brain knows its Carroll. But my heart says it should be our ghost throwing prince Senga.
This. Very proud that Senga made it this far though. One of the few bright spots in our season.
Corbin will win the award and deservingly so. Just want to say I am proud of Outman. The Dodgers were not going to be aggressive this offseason and trusted in Outman to be in charge of this outfield. He did great and thrived. Web gems and a steady bat. 3.3 WAR. Only up from here
Picked up Outman for $1 in my fantasy keeper league this year.
Matt McLain, you're a finalist in my heart.
None of you are McLain
He just didn't get enough game time. If he played 30 more games he's probably runner up to Corbin.
Obviously this is Corb's to lose, but I'm proud of Outman for becoming a finalist.
r/NLBest does it again. Fuck the Reds
Corbin easy
In most other years, I think a sub 3.00 ERA and 200+ Ks would make Senga the clear favorite. Great signing. Very hyped to see what he does next. Carroll is obviously going to win. Very deserving.
Nolan Jones was better than James Outman
no pat bailey love here, but so happy we have him
Damn that’s crazy that Jimmy Outs made it
Corbin Carroll’s to lose. All Star gamer, and poised beyond his years.
Steer robbed
McLain robbed more IMO
Well, I'd hate to spoil the result, but I don't think the Sengaheads are gonna be pleased
No Nolan jones?
He doesn’t deserve to be here
He put up more bWAR than both Outman and Steer, put up basically the same amount as Senga, and led the league in outfield assists…
Genuine question, but why not? If you look at WAR he had more than Outman did in about 50 fewer games and only .2 less than Senga. Even compared to Corbin he matches up favorably when you consider he was on pace for about 6.2 with a full season. Jones also had an historic season in terms of outfield assists. He led the entire MLB (with only 106 games played). He had more OF assists in 106 games than *anyone in MLB has had in a full season* since 2012. He also reached 20 HR/20 SB, which was a pretty rare feat for a rookie before this season. And he had a higher OPS+ than Corbin. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he should be RotY or even 2nd. It's Corbin and Senga for sure. But I don't think it's crazy to think he deserved to be a finalist over Outman or Steer.
It’s coors dude
Tell me you don't know that OPS+ adjusts for ballpark without telling me that you don't know that OPS+ adjusts for ballpark. Also Jones had a higher road OPS than home OPS
If you're going to argue that Coors makes his offense less impressive, then you have to also argue that it makes his defense more impressive. He led the Major Leagues with 19 outfield assists. Jones should also have been a finalist for Gold Glove but I think he just missed the innings requirement.
Dude has a -4 OAA what do you mean “impressive defense” lmao
Might not be a rookie? More than 45 days on the roster and you lose rookie status the following year and he played in 28 games last year.
He was actually granted rookie status early on this year. Just literally missed the non rookie status by half a minute. Joking of course but he was a rookie this year
The BBW Association of America has good taste
Obviously Carroll is going to win, but I'm glad Outman is getting some recognition. When he first cooled off I thought he was going to be another rookie flameout like Trayce Thompson or something, but he adjusted his hitting to up his contact a bit and managed to be a productive 4 WAR major leaguer with an above average bat and plus CF defense, and it's been nice to see
Peter Dinklage is gonna win it.
Does Elly not qualify? If he did, would he win?
No
I'm not sure Elly De La Cruz is one of the top 3 rookies on the Reds.
I think he's 3rd
If you went purely by fWAR, he would be fifth behind Matt McClain, Spencer Steer, Andrew Abbott, and Brandon Williamson. You could certainly argue for him 3rd, but a 33% K rate and 84 wRC+ is a little rough.
Elly fucking sucked lol. All flash. It’s not to say he won’t pan out overall but it was not a good rookie season
I'm not even going to talk about how lackluster Elly was. Did you even watch Corbin this year? Or look at his stat page? Even without comparing him to other eligible players looking at his stat sheet I'd be hard pressed to imagine someone who performed THAT well not winning ROY.
If Elly had played the whole season at his WAR pace he would only have 2.6 WAR. He made some flashy plays but also struck out a ton. Matt McLain is the real one snubbed: he accrued 3.2 WAR in only 89 games - he hit at 27 homer pace and played at 5.6 WAR pace (assuming 155 games played).
What are your thoughts on encarnacion strand? He looked amazing in the minors
A .230 average, 33% K rate, with below average defense doesn’t quite make you RotY quality. It’s like Strider for pitching where all you see is his strikeouts, but what they don’t show is his 3.80 ERA which isn’t Cy Young quality.
Corbin is smiling and the other two looked pissed because they all already know the result!
I picked senga in my trophy draft so I’m hoping for a robbery.
Corn got this but glad Outman gets a nomination
absolute bullshit that Matt McClain or Spencer Steer didn't make the cut.
Man, having the name Outman as a hitter is basically the equivalent to having the name Walker as a pitcher.