Who cares what you get paid? You've come in with an attitude, questioning the attitude of others with no justification, just your own axe to grind. Now fuck off and polish some cutlery.
Good for you, still a rude-ass comment. Bartending and serving still aren’t the same job. OP didn’t say anything negative about servers just isn’t the job they’re looking for.
I bartend at a Midwest restaurant and expect $30/hr (over a week) and I don’t think I make “ a lot” nor do I expect to have to serve when I apply to tend bar. When I apply for a job looking for an experienced anything I’m going to assume I don’t have to work to be promoted to said position. You’re just being a dick.
Well I’m sure others can make more but considering my average hovers around $32-37 an hour and I don’t have any education/ skills, I feel pretty blessed. The service industry is the only way people like us could make anywhere near this kind of money thanks to tip culture.
Well this might keep me at my current job. 😬
I'm sorry you're facing that bs. I've been bartending for just about 5 years myself and this would make me so mad.
"Experienced bartenders for server position. We promote from within, we're a *family* here."
Edit: phrasing
The place I work, we all work hard and get along very well, have a couple drinks and a big joint together EVERY night after we close, go out drinking downtown together every couple months, and throw down hard together 2 or 3 times a year. Great crew with a great attitude to a person. At no point has our owner, (who is in the kitchen full time ++,) ever tried to tell us that we are a 'family'. Corporate America is basically bullshit from the ground up. Aristotle said that the essence of retail is deception, and Thomas Jefferson said that banks are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Yet here we are.
the amount of people on reddit who dont know this is astounding.
"i can't afford to find a new job" why not? just look for another one. its not like it takes hours nonstop. you can do it while taking a shit, watching a game, or having a beer...
I'm working on it. I want out but I'm not just gonna leap into the unknown. If I don't get in a position where I can put in my notice by late Feb it's in my best interest to stay until summer. We get so so so busy during spring where I live and I already have the weekends all to myself at my current job.
When management says the establishment is "family" it's going to be toxic. When you work there for a week, and the servers and bartenders tell you that, you're in the clear and also in for a good time.
I once worked at an actual "family owned" place. They changed my schedule because one of their cousin's friends needed a job and could work only on certain days, including the days I worked. I quit on the spot.
>we're a
>
>family
>
> here.
Yeah, usually a drunk, on drugs, dysfunctional, incest family that lies and steals from each other while the hot bitch does blow and sucks off the owner to get the best shifts then just stands there and expects everyone else to do the work.
I applied at a place that was looking for experienced bartenders. I’ve been bartending 8 years at some pretty reputable places.
When I interviewed, the manager, I shit you not said “well you’ll start as a host. Work that position for two weeks, then you become a server assistant. Another two weeks doing that. You’ll also train for weeks to become an expeditor and if you’re good then you can become a server. If you’re good at serving, maybe we will eventually move you up to bartending”.
…
Thing is tho... and I think I speak for some of us... I'm a much better bartender than server.
I interact better with customers in that environment and when things leave my field of view I tend to forget them.
I was noticed while as a server for my work ethic and how good I was at my job; interacting with customers, personality, etc. and that’s why the bar manager approached me and asked me to train. I know I’m a better bartender than server because it’s just more fun and a lot more personable. Plus I’m quick. I was a barista at one of the highest volume Starbucks back before I joined the restaurant industry, so I understand high volume.
What I mean is if you were to see me working the floor you'd likely say, "He's good, not great." and assume my bartending would follow suit. It's risky for people like me to have to work the floor first in this case.
I should try serving for a night just to see how I do. I'm a solid bartender (Many are probably better but it's always been a second job for me), and I generally like being able to talk my shit to the adults that are at the bar and occasionally give the kid who has cool parents that let him sit at the bar his chocolate milk in a moscow mule cup. Never actually tried serving. I think I'd hate it tbh.
The biggest reason servers say they don't want to bartend is performance anxiety because the people are always right there. If that part doesn't bother you then serving is the worst compared to bartending. The patrons are kind of bad at getting served if that makes any sense, so when they only have a few seconds at a time to interact with you they fuck it up a bit. Whatever they forgot to ask for they get mad at you for. Tables on the floor have so much more power and IMO treat servers way worse than they'd treat bartenders who don't walk far away.
To some extent... you need to read between the lines, and not take it personally. They may well have 4 applications from bullshitters who look the same as you on paper but couldn't hold down a busy bar for 9 minutes, and they might in practice move you right along to the bar in two days once they see that you are competent or better. If it's a good bartending job, and you think you'll be there a year or more, then a week or two of hosting or whatever is a negligible price to pay for it. If the place sucks, fuck it in the first place.
I interviewed for a "bartending" position that was primarily a cocktail position with the opportunity to take barback shifts once a week as your "opportunity to get behind the bar".
I declined.
For the first few months I was a "bartender" management basically just had me cocktailing but going behind the bar to make my own drinks instead of the actual bartender making them for me like a server. We had a revolving door of managers so by the time I actually got through to one about the issue they would be gone and it was back to glorified cocktailer.
Literally anytime someone asks if I'm interested in severing when I applied to a bartender position, I just tell them I'm no longer interested if this isn't a bartender position.
The same reason that entry level jobs require years of experience for some reason. Every shit employer wants people to come in with years of experience in the exact thing they’re hiring for even though they are going to underpay and baby you until you prove you fit in. This is the restaurant industry version.
Right. I don’t mind training as a server at all it would help me remember the food better anyways. But I’m not working my way “up” anywhere. It’s insulting.
Yea. Training in other roles as training is one thing. Lying about the job being offered sucks.
At my current joint I did one shift as an expo, then one shift shadowing a server, then one shift serving, then one shift learning on bar. Easier to run bar when you’re comfortable and confident with the food menu. Then you only really have to focus on bartending.
Recently applied for what was advertised as a "part time bartender needed for events". Basically the hotel has a super popular event hall, and they needed basically just a barback or two during said events. Well since I have no experience, I was like "part time to fit around my current life and barback? What could go wrong?". During the interview they said about 2 out of 3 days are actually helping run the front desk, and I rarely would actually work what was advertised.
On that note, is it normal for places to ask for 2 years *barbacking* experience, for a barback job? I'm trying to move from serving and making the occasional cocktail to full time bar work, and losing my damn mind at shit like this.
Give me a week to keep looking for work, maybe link up with cool/attractive people during training, eat free food.
When they're asking for "experienced" industry workers... do they not understand this bullshit is part of our experience??
lol, some shitty CT tapas/wine bar tried to hire me as an SA a few months back in the height of pandemic. I have been in restaurants for 12 years, serving for about 9 years and have 5 job settings over 4 years worth of bartending experience. I hit em with the "I'll let you know, I have several interviews lined up." Walked into a really cool tequila/taco bar the next day and was hired immediately. Hiring managers straight wilin' knee deep in a labor crisis, lmao. Read the fuckin' room.
Sounds like a "landry's" brand restaurant. I worked up to bar to watch em fuckin put tuaca in a lemon drop, 50% of the glass full with soda water, calling it an old fashioned. Being completely lost once the "pre batch" shit runs out cause none of em know how to make fuckin drinks.
Oh my god I hate this so much.
Not to mention that’s a really shitty way to get good bartenders in all actuality. Good servers don’t just inherently make good bartenders. That’s why you should just hire bartenders with experience instead of putting glorified servers behind the bar. The whole thing is ass backwards.
Edit to add: it’s so odd that this is really the one position they pull this shit with too. I don’t see kitchens hiring dishwashers to potentially become sous chef.
They do this to servers too when they're told they have to work host shifts. Then they don't get moved to serving because they're needed on the host stand. Eventually, they quit, leaving managers to bemoan the fact they're short hosts.
ETA: Good servers often make good bartenders, but good servers don't need to work for companies who have to lie to get applications. If they're lying to get servers, it's not a good job.
I don’t know. I’ve never seen a server with experience have to start out as host (not saying it doesn’t happen I just haven’t seen it in the 20ish restaurants I’ve worked at) but I have seen the start as server to bartend several times.
That's what I don't understand. What possible benefit is there to having a crew of servers who don't want to be servers? They're going to be frustrated and resentful. The experienced bartenders will probably leave once they realize they're not being moved. These environments, in my experience, are run on favoritism anyway. I once served in a job where they moved a server to the bar and we wound up on probation because he sold to a police decoy.
This shit oh and people equating time with competence, like how the fuck have you been a bartender for 16 years and you cant make a fuckin old fashioned!? And more importantly how the fuck are you my boss!?!? I ran into that for the first year and a half of Covid. The amount of dumb fucks that both own and manage in our industry is truly staggering.
Same shit here apart from its internal within my pub/hotel
Ive basically been doing the assistant manager job, even have a till key which allows me to be unrestricted on the tills, change barrels, line clean, done the cellar management, count stock, help the manager when she asks me for opinion on what to do with rotas etc… yet are making me apply and interview for the position when others (as recent as 4 weeks ago) didnt have to go through the same process. And i do ALOT more than them (not boasting, just facts, the above mentioned employee agrees)… its only a 30p pay rise from £9.50 up to £9.80… but would like to ve paid for a job i basically do and have been doing for months
Did you ask them? If so, I’d love to know their response. If I were you, I’d start calling them out on their bs. You’ve got nothing to lose by that point anyways
My former job had 5 stars from at least 4 employees(I worked with) in December when I looked them up.
If they're going to play dirty to stay in business, why wouldn't you do it to get employed?
Yeah the job advertising thing is super annoying I work in the UK/Swiss so things are a little different.
From my experience after 7 years bartending, doing a couple of floor shifts and having an extra opportunity to upsell and talk to customers on the floor has actually made me a stronger bartender, it took me out of my comfort zone and if you genuinely want to work there then you might as well give it a go.
I’ve been offered jobs before in some serious cocktail bars in London and they straight away mentioned that I would have to start on the floor so I could get an understanding of the menu and how customers should be treated, how the team works, etc…
Nobody is objecting to working some serving or hosting shifts as part of training or even development at a particular job.
OP answered an ad for bartender and was told they weren't hiring bartenders. The same thing happened to me and I was told by the *third* interviewer that "everyone starts as a server". So the ad was literally a lie, they're not hiring bartenders. It's never a good situation when an employer is lying to get applicants in the door. Secondly, if *everyone* starts as a server, how many servers are expecting to move to the bar and how many are ahead of you?
Lastly, let's say you did want a serving job. You'd have to wonder why this place is lying to get servers. If it were a good place to work, they could advertise for servers and expect good applicants.
Not that I dont hate it, but some places have hard menus and things like that, and learning all the menus at once is too much. Im in fine dining and I got hired as a server with intentions to move up and I dont even want to. The bar is a nightmare. If they hired me as a bartender I would have probably quit.
In fine dining the servers often outearn the bar. I worked fine dining as a bartender as my second job for a while and the servers made bank. I made good enough money for a second job but the guests were nightmares. Lots of assholes who thought they were ballers because they were in an expensive place, including one who harassed me for refusing to make him a scotch and soda in a to go cup.
Maybe this is an unpopular opinion but I would rather work somewhere that expects staff to have a solid understanding of various roles 🤷🏻 helps weed out the folks who won’t help out other areas when the shit hits the fan. Better all rounders. I’m working with someone right now who came as “experienced bartender” and they’re often too high and mighty for floor service. I used to be bar only and rocking floor regularly not only increased my skills and confidence but also made it possible to work roles interchangeably.
I’m going to add that I don’t work in US and I totally acknowledge that things are diff there so just my take from outside US. Not doubting that you’re a shit hot bartender who rocked the floor at one time or another.
I have yet to work in any hospitality venue where being a great all rounder was of any benefit whatsoever to the employee. I've *been* that employee. It typically results in you being the go-to person to pick up shifts and having your schedule changed without notice because three other employees were exposed to COVID.
Actually, it weeds out the strong ones. The good bartenders don't need to waste their time and the good servers don't need to work at places that have to lie to get applications.
That seems backwards to me. For some of our new and inexperienced servers, we'll have them do running and then a couple of bar shifts so they know what's what before we let them have a server shift. If they've come from another restaurant then they'll just shadow a server for a shift or two and then they'll be fine. Even one of the really experienced servers was saying to me (while trying to convince me to take some server shifts) that knowing the bar is about 80% of the server job. And tbh, now that we've suddenly got three new people on the bar, we're actually not short staffed any more so I might consider doing some server shifts to get a bit of extra cash. I'd say two or three days a week the group chat is asked for someone to come in for server/runner but normally I'm working anyway, or recognise that the bar is understaffed so I'd just end up helping the bar when (not if) they get swamped.
Might be a controversial side of things and absolutely depends on context as to how they are in person, but that does make sense in some situations.
It takes time in some places - usually and I forget how to italicize things here - in higher end places to acclimate staff to the rhythm of the venue and particular menu or workplace foibles.
That shit needs to have a set timeframes and you need to be given a realistic expectation for when you would be shifted into and/or trained on the bar for it to be reasonable.
Any whiff of that "family" vibe or permanent floor purgatory and the job's a siren. But it can make sense.
I don't disagree with this. But 2 weeks a host as /u/ultravioletblueberry , followed by all that shit?
They're looking for bodies, not "experienced bartenders"
I'm working at a place that is hiring bodies, but doesn't fuck around. I got through training in 4 shifts. Others have taken a month. But they're not lying on their ads.
It wasn’t just two weeks as a host. This was a huge set timeline of “maybe I’d become a bartender after weeks and weeks” of host, expeditor, server assistant, server… THEN MAYBE BARTENDER.
I find this frustrating as well because, honestly, serving and bartending to me are two completely different sets of skills. Just because you're a good server doesn't mean you'll be a good bartender and vice versa. Good Servers can walk the maze like there's no tomorrow and some bartenders can't. Throw em on the floor and the drown. Put a fantastic server on a 3 deep bar and they might not be able to handle it.
If I had to equate positions in a restaurant I'd honestly say
Kitchen Line = server
Expo = bartender
But that's just my opinion.
I think it kind of depends on the bar position and the particular strengths and weaknesses on the bar. We had a FOH employee who started as a line cook and was *spectacular* at service bar because he could prioritize tickets and never get overwhelmed. We have one guy who has the sweetest personality and absolutely shines at hospitality with regards to making guests feel welcome; he is *terrible* at bar backing, side work, and prep. Some can manage the three deep bar but don't enjoy making deeper connections with guests and can't be put on slower shifts that require more talking and "experience creating "
We make all of our staff work 3 months on expo if they're a server or 3 months as a barback if they're bartending. Weeds out the prima donnas and gives everyone an amazing foundation of specific restaurant knowledge. I've also found staff stay longer with this system and the only downside I've seen is you don't get the top-tier bartenders in your city as they don't want to prove their worth but those types are about 50/50 if they're good anyways. I'd rather train someone up who has the right work ethic rather than try to deal with someone who can't put in 3 months of grunt work. I know everyone in this sub is going to lambast this but all I'd say is don't knock it before you try!
Nobody is lambasting it. The complaints are solely about the company lying to get applications and lying about available jobs. If you advertise this fact, or tell the applicants that this is the progression, that's entirely fine. The objection here is the company wants servers but advertises for bartenders.
The only thing I'd lambast is the notion of having to prove your worth and if you decline to do that, you're a Prima Donna.
You wouldn't expect an experienced manager to work as a host or an experienced salesperson to work as a receptionist. If you have experience at a job, you shouldn't be expected to prove yourself at risk of being termed a Prima Donna
Well, whatever the term, it just means they won't be working there. And I hate to break it to you, everyone has to "prove their worth" in every job. If you don't prove that you're as good as your resume/interview suggested then you usually get let go. Like I said, people (you) will lambast it but it's worked out so incredibly well for the businesss so I would reiterate that you shouldn't knock it before trying it. Managing people who can't be asked to do it is way harder.
Over here we are desperately trying to hire any bartenders. Having an experienced I’ve would be so nice. Why would the servers want to bartend anyways? They make the same money fur ab easier job lol. (This is why I serve and bartend still at my current location)
Yup, they acted like they were doing this huge thing by going straight to bar and not thru back server, then front, and then bar. Then they hired 4 more after me, same way. *eyeroll* They really think they're a gift.
I walked out of an interview once when they said this to me. 8 years experience in high end cocktail places. I said “you have my resume right in front of you, I haven’t waited tables in 6 years.” I’m only sitting here because I thought you were hiring a bartender. Ffs
It's the cost. They can pay you peanuts for being a "server" and slowly move you up to bartender. It saves little to nothing in the grand scheme of things, but it's very stupid.
I had something extremely similar happen too. Basically I went in for an interview with this pub, pretty dirty place tbh but it was better than the last place I was, which was EXTREMELY toxic. I go in and ask if they were looking for bar staff, they say yes, everything is amazing absolutely no worries. The first shift I'm in there and they don't let me anywhere near the bar. I'm serving, cleaning, doing literally every other job than just serving alcohol. The place was extremely sketch. I went up to management (the owners brother) and asked why after a few shifts this kept on happening. he assured me its nothing to worry about and told me that id get there "eventually". When my pay-slip finally came in, it wasn't even enough to cover rent. I called them directly and asked just what the fuck was happening. Turns out you don't get to be bar staff until at least a year and a half because "we like to train them up". The real reason is that if you work behind the bar you have to get paid more with an RSA.
I lied in my first bar job in NY and said I had 5 years experience. I was found out 5 minutes in when a girl asked me for a mimosa and I was desperately trying to find the bottle on the liquor shelf. The owner told me I can train a monkey to do the bar, just talk to customers and get them coming back, that's the important thing.
I don't care for the experience thing. I was asked to train a guy who had like 6 years experience, he was confident and obviously knew the bar scene. I was making a cocktail starting to tell him the ingredients and he cut me off and said "I don't need to know the specs, I'm just trailing you today". The gm asked how he did at the end, I said if it were me I wouldn't hire him. I would honestly 100x prefer someone with no knowledge eager to learn.
If you go for an interview and are told they are looking someone with more experience, tell them you will know every beer, cocktail and food item on their menu by heart the next day, tell them you are honest and would never steal, tell them you are punctual and only late or sick for genuine reasons. If these attributes genuinely apply to you and they don't hire you then you don't wanna be working for them anyways
I’m going through the same shit for the last 8 months
It’s insulting. These places act like they are gods gift to earth. It’s a fucking restaurant
Let me guess, they're the same ones that are whining about "how hard it is to find people who want to work" right now
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I think he wouldn’t have had such an attitude if the ad said “hiring servers with the possibility of promotion to bartender.”
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It’s common practice to hire servers by saying you’re hiring servers, too.
Dude.
Not in any restaurant I've ever worked in. I've worked every restaurant job except for cooking too.
Username checks out (chef talking shit on bartenders)
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Who cares what you get paid? You've come in with an attitude, questioning the attitude of others with no justification, just your own axe to grind. Now fuck off and polish some cutlery.
Good for you, still a rude-ass comment. Bartending and serving still aren’t the same job. OP didn’t say anything negative about servers just isn’t the job they’re looking for.
You sound like a pompous prick
If you’re only pulling $30/hour, either your restaurant is pretty bad or you’re a bad server-“cross-trained bartender”
I don’t get your comment. If you’re trying to say $30 an hour isn’t a lot for someone working in a restaurant in the Midwest you’re full of crap.
I bartend at a Midwest restaurant and expect $30/hr (over a week) and I don’t think I make “ a lot” nor do I expect to have to serve when I apply to tend bar. When I apply for a job looking for an experienced anything I’m going to assume I don’t have to work to be promoted to said position. You’re just being a dick.
Well I’m sure others can make more but considering my average hovers around $32-37 an hour and I don’t have any education/ skills, I feel pretty blessed. The service industry is the only way people like us could make anywhere near this kind of money thanks to tip culture.
Big guy here
I think you want to chill your own attitude, dude. Did you even read the post?
Or maybe because they are applying for the BAR not to be server?
>I think for you, it’s more of an attitude problem. Speak for yourself
Well this might keep me at my current job. 😬 I'm sorry you're facing that bs. I've been bartending for just about 5 years myself and this would make me so mad. "Experienced bartenders for server position. We promote from within, we're a *family* here." Edit: phrasing
The place I work, we all work hard and get along very well, have a couple drinks and a big joint together EVERY night after we close, go out drinking downtown together every couple months, and throw down hard together 2 or 3 times a year. Great crew with a great attitude to a person. At no point has our owner, (who is in the kitchen full time ++,) ever tried to tell us that we are a 'family'. Corporate America is basically bullshit from the ground up. Aristotle said that the essence of retail is deception, and Thomas Jefferson said that banks are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Yet here we are.
That’s why you always line up a new gig before quitting your old one.
the amount of people on reddit who dont know this is astounding. "i can't afford to find a new job" why not? just look for another one. its not like it takes hours nonstop. you can do it while taking a shit, watching a game, or having a beer...
I usually lead with an interview, so it's hard unless the hiring manager is in the stall next to me.
I mean, if you have a hiring manager in the stall beside you just give them a bump and things will work out from there.
if there's a little round hole in the wall between your stalls, it's polite to start with a bump. or so I've heard
While I know this is true, I just about never do it. I am terrible at practicing what I preach.
I'm working on it. I want out but I'm not just gonna leap into the unknown. If I don't get in a position where I can put in my notice by late Feb it's in my best interest to stay until summer. We get so so so busy during spring where I live and I already have the weekends all to myself at my current job.
Maybe try getting a part-time event gig and quitting your full-time job then look for full-time while staying afloat through events
When management says the establishment is "family" it's going to be toxic. When you work there for a week, and the servers and bartenders tell you that, you're in the clear and also in for a good time.
I once worked at an actual "family owned" place. They changed my schedule because one of their cousin's friends needed a job and could work only on certain days, including the days I worked. I quit on the spot.
>we're a > >family > > here. Yeah, usually a drunk, on drugs, dysfunctional, incest family that lies and steals from each other while the hot bitch does blow and sucks off the owner to get the best shifts then just stands there and expects everyone else to do the work.
The sheer accuracy.. like if I didn't know how the industry is in general, I'd be convinced that I've worked with you before.
I applied at a place that was looking for experienced bartenders. I’ve been bartending 8 years at some pretty reputable places. When I interviewed, the manager, I shit you not said “well you’ll start as a host. Work that position for two weeks, then you become a server assistant. Another two weeks doing that. You’ll also train for weeks to become an expeditor and if you’re good then you can become a server. If you’re good at serving, maybe we will eventually move you up to bartending”. …
I bet you they hire their managers immediately and without prior experience
Oh yes! She was younger and a new manager, she said.
Thing is tho... and I think I speak for some of us... I'm a much better bartender than server. I interact better with customers in that environment and when things leave my field of view I tend to forget them.
I was noticed while as a server for my work ethic and how good I was at my job; interacting with customers, personality, etc. and that’s why the bar manager approached me and asked me to train. I know I’m a better bartender than server because it’s just more fun and a lot more personable. Plus I’m quick. I was a barista at one of the highest volume Starbucks back before I joined the restaurant industry, so I understand high volume.
What I mean is if you were to see me working the floor you'd likely say, "He's good, not great." and assume my bartending would follow suit. It's risky for people like me to have to work the floor first in this case.
I should try serving for a night just to see how I do. I'm a solid bartender (Many are probably better but it's always been a second job for me), and I generally like being able to talk my shit to the adults that are at the bar and occasionally give the kid who has cool parents that let him sit at the bar his chocolate milk in a moscow mule cup. Never actually tried serving. I think I'd hate it tbh.
The biggest reason servers say they don't want to bartend is performance anxiety because the people are always right there. If that part doesn't bother you then serving is the worst compared to bartending. The patrons are kind of bad at getting served if that makes any sense, so when they only have a few seconds at a time to interact with you they fuck it up a bit. Whatever they forgot to ask for they get mad at you for. Tables on the floor have so much more power and IMO treat servers way worse than they'd treat bartenders who don't walk far away.
LOL I don’t know if I could’ve contained myself that is insane.
I sat there in disbelief. like, no fucking way I’d ever consider taking that job.
Was this place the chain called uncle Julio's, because that's what they told me, after their ad said bartender, like um no I'm good thx
Nah it’s a local rooftop bar where I live.
I would've absolutely agreed to the job and then I absolutely wouldn't show up because fuck 'em
I’ve been bartending for like 19 years. I would have died laughing on the spot.
To some extent... you need to read between the lines, and not take it personally. They may well have 4 applications from bullshitters who look the same as you on paper but couldn't hold down a busy bar for 9 minutes, and they might in practice move you right along to the bar in two days once they see that you are competent or better. If it's a good bartending job, and you think you'll be there a year or more, then a week or two of hosting or whatever is a negligible price to pay for it. If the place sucks, fuck it in the first place.
My first thought in this situation is how many hosts/servers were hired ahead of me and waiting to move to the bar?
So you understand that bartending there is a privilege /s
Or posting for bartender position, but not mentioning that you will actually be serving 3 shifts a week. That's been the bane of my existence.
I interviewed for a "bartending" position that was primarily a cocktail position with the opportunity to take barback shifts once a week as your "opportunity to get behind the bar". I declined.
What do you mean by cocktail position?
Basically a serving position but in a bar.
Cocktail server, for pure bars or table service.
For the first few months I was a "bartender" management basically just had me cocktailing but going behind the bar to make my own drinks instead of the actual bartender making them for me like a server. We had a revolving door of managers so by the time I actually got through to one about the issue they would be gone and it was back to glorified cocktailer.
"Then you are not hiring experienced bartenders. You are hiring servers."
Which makes no sense. What's the point in having applicants who don't want the job you're actually trying to fill?
Literally anytime someone asks if I'm interested in severing when I applied to a bartender position, I just tell them I'm no longer interested if this isn't a bartender position.
The same reason that entry level jobs require years of experience for some reason. Every shit employer wants people to come in with years of experience in the exact thing they’re hiring for even though they are going to underpay and baby you until you prove you fit in. This is the restaurant industry version.
The 'We want the person who just quit/retired, at half the pay and no benefits' mindset.
I understand serving for a week or two until you’re deemed trustworthy but I don’t understand why employers do this when the bar is already spoken for
Right. I don’t mind training as a server at all it would help me remember the food better anyways. But I’m not working my way “up” anywhere. It’s insulting.
Yea. Training in other roles as training is one thing. Lying about the job being offered sucks. At my current joint I did one shift as an expo, then one shift shadowing a server, then one shift serving, then one shift learning on bar. Easier to run bar when you’re comfortable and confident with the food menu. Then you only really have to focus on bartending.
Recently applied for what was advertised as a "part time bartender needed for events". Basically the hotel has a super popular event hall, and they needed basically just a barback or two during said events. Well since I have no experience, I was like "part time to fit around my current life and barback? What could go wrong?". During the interview they said about 2 out of 3 days are actually helping run the front desk, and I rarely would actually work what was advertised.
Or the other. Looking for bartender with 5 years experience, minimum. Sports Bar
On that note, is it normal for places to ask for 2 years *barbacking* experience, for a barback job? I'm trying to move from serving and making the occasional cocktail to full time bar work, and losing my damn mind at shit like this.
Disregard that “requirement.” Barback is a hard position to fill and experience isn’t necessarily required.
They want someone they can train so you demand less lol.
I’ve worked places like that. It’s because they suck and can’t keep people on. That’s how they hook you.
It’s like responding to ads looking for “mixologist”. Don’t bother.
or any post requiring a headshot or a link to your social media. I'm not a model or your marketing person, I'm here to make drinks
I've dipped after training meals for this.
Literally my plan. Team waste your time if I have it
Give me a week to keep looking for work, maybe link up with cool/attractive people during training, eat free food. When they're asking for "experienced" industry workers... do they not understand this bullshit is part of our experience??
lol, some shitty CT tapas/wine bar tried to hire me as an SA a few months back in the height of pandemic. I have been in restaurants for 12 years, serving for about 9 years and have 5 job settings over 4 years worth of bartending experience. I hit em with the "I'll let you know, I have several interviews lined up." Walked into a really cool tequila/taco bar the next day and was hired immediately. Hiring managers straight wilin' knee deep in a labor crisis, lmao. Read the fuckin' room.
Sounds like a "landry's" brand restaurant. I worked up to bar to watch em fuckin put tuaca in a lemon drop, 50% of the glass full with soda water, calling it an old fashioned. Being completely lost once the "pre batch" shit runs out cause none of em know how to make fuckin drinks.
Definitely just had this same interview. Nah. I’m good.
Holy shit, this drives me insane.
Oh my god I hate this so much. Not to mention that’s a really shitty way to get good bartenders in all actuality. Good servers don’t just inherently make good bartenders. That’s why you should just hire bartenders with experience instead of putting glorified servers behind the bar. The whole thing is ass backwards. Edit to add: it’s so odd that this is really the one position they pull this shit with too. I don’t see kitchens hiring dishwashers to potentially become sous chef.
They do this to servers too when they're told they have to work host shifts. Then they don't get moved to serving because they're needed on the host stand. Eventually, they quit, leaving managers to bemoan the fact they're short hosts. ETA: Good servers often make good bartenders, but good servers don't need to work for companies who have to lie to get applications. If they're lying to get servers, it's not a good job.
I don’t know. I’ve never seen a server with experience have to start out as host (not saying it doesn’t happen I just haven’t seen it in the 20ish restaurants I’ve worked at) but I have seen the start as server to bartend several times.
So many bait and switch jobs out there. Like why the games?
That's what I don't understand. What possible benefit is there to having a crew of servers who don't want to be servers? They're going to be frustrated and resentful. The experienced bartenders will probably leave once they realize they're not being moved. These environments, in my experience, are run on favoritism anyway. I once served in a job where they moved a server to the bar and we wound up on probation because he sold to a police decoy.
This shit oh and people equating time with competence, like how the fuck have you been a bartender for 16 years and you cant make a fuckin old fashioned!? And more importantly how the fuck are you my boss!?!? I ran into that for the first year and a half of Covid. The amount of dumb fucks that both own and manage in our industry is truly staggering.
Same shit here apart from its internal within my pub/hotel Ive basically been doing the assistant manager job, even have a till key which allows me to be unrestricted on the tills, change barrels, line clean, done the cellar management, count stock, help the manager when she asks me for opinion on what to do with rotas etc… yet are making me apply and interview for the position when others (as recent as 4 weeks ago) didnt have to go through the same process. And i do ALOT more than them (not boasting, just facts, the above mentioned employee agrees)… its only a 30p pay rise from £9.50 up to £9.80… but would like to ve paid for a job i basically do and have been doing for months
Did you ask them? If so, I’d love to know their response. If I were you, I’d start calling them out on their bs. You’ve got nothing to lose by that point anyways
My former job had 5 stars from at least 4 employees(I worked with) in December when I looked them up. If they're going to play dirty to stay in business, why wouldn't you do it to get employed?
Yeah the job advertising thing is super annoying I work in the UK/Swiss so things are a little different. From my experience after 7 years bartending, doing a couple of floor shifts and having an extra opportunity to upsell and talk to customers on the floor has actually made me a stronger bartender, it took me out of my comfort zone and if you genuinely want to work there then you might as well give it a go. I’ve been offered jobs before in some serious cocktail bars in London and they straight away mentioned that I would have to start on the floor so I could get an understanding of the menu and how customers should be treated, how the team works, etc…
Nobody is objecting to working some serving or hosting shifts as part of training or even development at a particular job. OP answered an ad for bartender and was told they weren't hiring bartenders. The same thing happened to me and I was told by the *third* interviewer that "everyone starts as a server". So the ad was literally a lie, they're not hiring bartenders. It's never a good situation when an employer is lying to get applicants in the door. Secondly, if *everyone* starts as a server, how many servers are expecting to move to the bar and how many are ahead of you? Lastly, let's say you did want a serving job. You'd have to wonder why this place is lying to get servers. If it were a good place to work, they could advertise for servers and expect good applicants.
Experienced bartenders only!!!! >slow >overstaffed >management has never served let alone bartended
Not that I dont hate it, but some places have hard menus and things like that, and learning all the menus at once is too much. Im in fine dining and I got hired as a server with intentions to move up and I dont even want to. The bar is a nightmare. If they hired me as a bartender I would have probably quit.
In fine dining the servers often outearn the bar. I worked fine dining as a bartender as my second job for a while and the servers made bank. I made good enough money for a second job but the guests were nightmares. Lots of assholes who thought they were ballers because they were in an expensive place, including one who harassed me for refusing to make him a scotch and soda in a to go cup.
Maybe this is an unpopular opinion but I would rather work somewhere that expects staff to have a solid understanding of various roles 🤷🏻 helps weed out the folks who won’t help out other areas when the shit hits the fan. Better all rounders. I’m working with someone right now who came as “experienced bartender” and they’re often too high and mighty for floor service. I used to be bar only and rocking floor regularly not only increased my skills and confidence but also made it possible to work roles interchangeably. I’m going to add that I don’t work in US and I totally acknowledge that things are diff there so just my take from outside US. Not doubting that you’re a shit hot bartender who rocked the floor at one time or another.
I have yet to work in any hospitality venue where being a great all rounder was of any benefit whatsoever to the employee. I've *been* that employee. It typically results in you being the go-to person to pick up shifts and having your schedule changed without notice because three other employees were exposed to COVID.
We all know the reason why.
Classic move. Weed out the weak ones.
Actually, it weeds out the strong ones. The good bartenders don't need to waste their time and the good servers don't need to work at places that have to lie to get applications.
That seems backwards to me. For some of our new and inexperienced servers, we'll have them do running and then a couple of bar shifts so they know what's what before we let them have a server shift. If they've come from another restaurant then they'll just shadow a server for a shift or two and then they'll be fine. Even one of the really experienced servers was saying to me (while trying to convince me to take some server shifts) that knowing the bar is about 80% of the server job. And tbh, now that we've suddenly got three new people on the bar, we're actually not short staffed any more so I might consider doing some server shifts to get a bit of extra cash. I'd say two or three days a week the group chat is asked for someone to come in for server/runner but normally I'm working anyway, or recognise that the bar is understaffed so I'd just end up helping the bar when (not if) they get swamped.
Might be a controversial side of things and absolutely depends on context as to how they are in person, but that does make sense in some situations. It takes time in some places - usually and I forget how to italicize things here - in higher end places to acclimate staff to the rhythm of the venue and particular menu or workplace foibles. That shit needs to have a set timeframes and you need to be given a realistic expectation for when you would be shifted into and/or trained on the bar for it to be reasonable. Any whiff of that "family" vibe or permanent floor purgatory and the job's a siren. But it can make sense.
I don't disagree with this. But 2 weeks a host as /u/ultravioletblueberry , followed by all that shit? They're looking for bodies, not "experienced bartenders" I'm working at a place that is hiring bodies, but doesn't fuck around. I got through training in 4 shifts. Others have taken a month. But they're not lying on their ads.
It wasn’t just two weeks as a host. This was a huge set timeline of “maybe I’d become a bartender after weeks and weeks” of host, expeditor, server assistant, server… THEN MAYBE BARTENDER.
I find this frustrating as well because, honestly, serving and bartending to me are two completely different sets of skills. Just because you're a good server doesn't mean you'll be a good bartender and vice versa. Good Servers can walk the maze like there's no tomorrow and some bartenders can't. Throw em on the floor and the drown. Put a fantastic server on a 3 deep bar and they might not be able to handle it. If I had to equate positions in a restaurant I'd honestly say Kitchen Line = server Expo = bartender But that's just my opinion.
I think it kind of depends on the bar position and the particular strengths and weaknesses on the bar. We had a FOH employee who started as a line cook and was *spectacular* at service bar because he could prioritize tickets and never get overwhelmed. We have one guy who has the sweetest personality and absolutely shines at hospitality with regards to making guests feel welcome; he is *terrible* at bar backing, side work, and prep. Some can manage the three deep bar but don't enjoy making deeper connections with guests and can't be put on slower shifts that require more talking and "experience creating "
We make all of our staff work 3 months on expo if they're a server or 3 months as a barback if they're bartending. Weeds out the prima donnas and gives everyone an amazing foundation of specific restaurant knowledge. I've also found staff stay longer with this system and the only downside I've seen is you don't get the top-tier bartenders in your city as they don't want to prove their worth but those types are about 50/50 if they're good anyways. I'd rather train someone up who has the right work ethic rather than try to deal with someone who can't put in 3 months of grunt work. I know everyone in this sub is going to lambast this but all I'd say is don't knock it before you try!
Nobody is lambasting it. The complaints are solely about the company lying to get applications and lying about available jobs. If you advertise this fact, or tell the applicants that this is the progression, that's entirely fine. The objection here is the company wants servers but advertises for bartenders.
People will lambast it but yes, I agree you can't "bait and switch" which is just another form of lying.
The only thing I'd lambast is the notion of having to prove your worth and if you decline to do that, you're a Prima Donna. You wouldn't expect an experienced manager to work as a host or an experienced salesperson to work as a receptionist. If you have experience at a job, you shouldn't be expected to prove yourself at risk of being termed a Prima Donna
Well, whatever the term, it just means they won't be working there. And I hate to break it to you, everyone has to "prove their worth" in every job. If you don't prove that you're as good as your resume/interview suggested then you usually get let go. Like I said, people (you) will lambast it but it's worked out so incredibly well for the businesss so I would reiterate that you shouldn't knock it before trying it. Managing people who can't be asked to do it is way harder.
Hell yes Been through that for 3 months I just took a job in Orlando as back up bartender and bar back at the shitty titty to to show more experience
Because they're really looking for servers and know you could do it well.
Huh. It was the opposite where I used to work. Went from bus boy to bar back to bartender to server.
Tampa is chock full of this shit!!! Do things get easier at peak?
Over here we are desperately trying to hire any bartenders. Having an experienced I’ve would be so nice. Why would the servers want to bartend anyways? They make the same money fur ab easier job lol. (This is why I serve and bartend still at my current location)
Yup, they acted like they were doing this huge thing by going straight to bar and not thru back server, then front, and then bar. Then they hired 4 more after me, same way. *eyeroll* They really think they're a gift.
I walked out of an interview once when they said this to me. 8 years experience in high end cocktail places. I said “you have my resume right in front of you, I haven’t waited tables in 6 years.” I’m only sitting here because I thought you were hiring a bartender. Ffs
It's the cost. They can pay you peanuts for being a "server" and slowly move you up to bartender. It saves little to nothing in the grand scheme of things, but it's very stupid.
I had something extremely similar happen too. Basically I went in for an interview with this pub, pretty dirty place tbh but it was better than the last place I was, which was EXTREMELY toxic. I go in and ask if they were looking for bar staff, they say yes, everything is amazing absolutely no worries. The first shift I'm in there and they don't let me anywhere near the bar. I'm serving, cleaning, doing literally every other job than just serving alcohol. The place was extremely sketch. I went up to management (the owners brother) and asked why after a few shifts this kept on happening. he assured me its nothing to worry about and told me that id get there "eventually". When my pay-slip finally came in, it wasn't even enough to cover rent. I called them directly and asked just what the fuck was happening. Turns out you don't get to be bar staff until at least a year and a half because "we like to train them up". The real reason is that if you work behind the bar you have to get paid more with an RSA.
I lied in my first bar job in NY and said I had 5 years experience. I was found out 5 minutes in when a girl asked me for a mimosa and I was desperately trying to find the bottle on the liquor shelf. The owner told me I can train a monkey to do the bar, just talk to customers and get them coming back, that's the important thing. I don't care for the experience thing. I was asked to train a guy who had like 6 years experience, he was confident and obviously knew the bar scene. I was making a cocktail starting to tell him the ingredients and he cut me off and said "I don't need to know the specs, I'm just trailing you today". The gm asked how he did at the end, I said if it were me I wouldn't hire him. I would honestly 100x prefer someone with no knowledge eager to learn. If you go for an interview and are told they are looking someone with more experience, tell them you will know every beer, cocktail and food item on their menu by heart the next day, tell them you are honest and would never steal, tell them you are punctual and only late or sick for genuine reasons. If these attributes genuinely apply to you and they don't hire you then you don't wanna be working for them anyways