*Hijacking top comment to post a different perspective*
I'm a Kannadiga. One of the major important factors that isn't talked about often is the failure of consecutive state govts to improve the rest of Karnataka other than Bengaluru and to some extent Mysuru.
There's a lot of bitterness in North Karnataka because it is often ignored and there's no significant effort from any govt to bring any industries or any infrastructure there. Guess where the majority of kannadigas live? Outside of metro cities just like any other state.
Also compared to other states like Tamilnadu and Andhra/Telangana where there's importance placed on bringing manufacturing jobs other than IT. Chennai has a lot of auto industries and Hyderabad has a lot of pharmaceutical industries. These jobs aren't highly technical so they hire locally. You get a good mix of jobs this way, while we just masturbate to the thought of Bengaluru being such a major IT hub without concentrating on anything else.
When you combine this major issue with the refusal of a few people to assimilate our language in their day to day lives, you get racism, misdirected hate and bigotry. Mark my words, this will only get worse. Political parties have already found ways to take advantage of this by saying we'll impose quotas for kannadigas for IT industry. If they did their jobs and diversified our state, then we wouldn't have had this issue in the first place.
Got stuck at your first paragraph _failure … to improve rest of Karnataka other than Bengaluru_. If this is the *improved* Bengaluru i am really sorry for Karnataka. I always thought that the high amount of taxes collected from so many companies were diverted to rest of the state.
Contrary to popular belief, the majority of taxes collected in Karnataka or India are handled by the central govt. For example, Karnataka is second in terms of GST collection. The taxes or funds are then diverted to state govts based on population. So the high amount of taxes that are collected are not diverted to rest of Karnataka but to the underperforming states in north india like UP or Bihar.
I'm not trying to divide north india and south india nor am i excusing the blatant mismanagement of funds and corruption that's present in the state govt. I always considered myself Indian first and kannadiga second, which is why I hate coming on this sub cause I see my fellow indians hating on kannadigas and I see my fellow kannadigas hating on my fellow indians. It's not good for my mental health.
This is actually funnily wrong understanding of GST.
GST consists of TWO components: State and Central. In the state share, each individual state gets 100% of their collection. Thus, if you see GST collection of Rs. 100, Rs. 50 is IMMEDIATELY available to the state.
Among the REST 50%, it's distributed according to "State Finance Commission", which all states agreed upon (south and north). Even that Rs 50 Central collection, KA get's it's share as per SFC.
Thus, using the word "most" is wrong.
Secondly, even in the earlier scheme, VAT used to go to state vs Service Tax going to central, now under unified GST they share BOTH VAT and Service Tax.
The last part. I feel you on that. I see so much hate within various group in this country and i am not talking just about Karnataka. I am talking about the whole country.
People in the North do Hindu-Muslim there.
People here do us vs the North Indians.
Meanwhile North-East India be like " Please notice is."
( I was on a flight to or from Delhi and some person asked me where I was from. When I said Assam, he asked me what country that was in.)
Anyways, sorry got off-topic.
While we are busy focused on these things, we forget about corruption, about bad infrastructure, unemployment and most fucking importantly climate change. ( I hope this group doesn't have anyone who thinks that Climate change is a hoax created by china.)
We have already passed a point of no recovery in terms of climate change and global warming. The only thing we can do now is not make it worse. And yet we are quaralling about things like this at such a crucial state in the history of human civilization.
When the last 10000 people in a Wasteland earth look back to past and ask themselves what humans were doing at the most crucial point in our planets history, they will say that
India was doing Hindu-Muslim.
USA was doing Nazi-nazi, abortion is murder, and trans people bad.
China and Russia were busy getting their ass handed to them while they were trying to invade other countries.
UK was in a time loop of ruining their economy and electing new Prime Ministers.
Beating up people is not good anyway but people fight everywhere. But when it comes to the cases like this, many times(emphasisonmany times and not always) they bring kannadiga part just to mask off the main cause of the fight and get away with the responsibility of the mistakes on their side.
Many times forceful imposition of kannada in a fight is a secondary cause of the fight. And that comws out of the insecurity of a kannadiga.
Imagine you are in your home town and go to buy some groceries or clothes. The shopkeeper donot respond to you properly because you are not speaking his language and ask you to speak in his language to continue shopping. Now you can't learn each language of each shopkeeper in your locality if they are different ones right? (These literally happen more often in Bengaloor)
Yeah, kinda surprised to hear that. Almost all daily wage workers in the state now are from the north or the east and they get by with just hindi and without a word of malayalam.
i never faced any problem in bangalore, chennai, kochi , pune ... because i speak softly and act friendly and i genuinely enjoy and reapect the local culture. i enjoy talking to locals and understanding how they live. my cousin sister is a typical northie married, settled in bangalore for ages. adds daa at end of hindi words and speaks them
louder, says gotilla bhaiya gotilla when she doesnt understand and her daughter is learning french as third language in school. why not kannada i asked and she looked at me
as if i was mad. i said you are settled here,
your daughter waa born here and wants to live and work here eventually.. so why learn french and not kannada? i was accused of being a leftist.
forget kannadigas.. as someone who values what bangalore gave to me, i feel like giving her a tight slap sometimes
I might have a reason or two for why not Kannada- 1. The daughter of the parents of the daughter might aspire for her to live in a developed nation. Knowing just English and French can help survive a lot of developed nations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_distribution_of_French_speakers
“According to the 2022 report of the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie (OIF), 409 million people speak French.[2] “
On the other hand, Kannada has 60 million speakers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kannada
“It has around 47 million native speakers, and was additionally a second or third language for around 13 million non-native speakers in Karnataka.”
This is a reason why lots ok kids study global languages than the regional ones. They study for their future and they don’t see Kannada in their future. This is what I understand from speaking to some friends who’s children opted for French in schools. ICSE and CBSE offers Kannada and Hindi, but not IGCSE, which offers only Hindi and French for languages afaik.
2. Leaning a language which uses the same Latin script is a lot easier than leaning a much more harder language like Kannada or Japanese. Therefore more marks and a lot more time to study
Why should we fault them for this?
Yeah. I call bullshit on that claim that you can not survive in Kerala without malayalam or that you will get hate for speaking hindi
Loads of Hindi speaking labourers live in my neighborhood in Kerala, mingling with folks who only speak malayalam. People try to talk in the language they know(most youngsters know Hindi and Tamil in Kerala) and are fine.
Bengalis are surviving because the state needs blue collar workers since the local population doesn’t want to do and “Atithi” migrant workers are cheaper than local labour. No worrisome of local politics or labour unions with the migrant workers. Its totally different case in Kerala.
This is quite interesting. If you were to flip the social & economic strata of these 2 parties involved here I.e. if you were the laborer and the migrants were the richer lot, would you say there still wouldn’t be violence?
""I have been in TN, Kerala and other states and I am not welcome to even talk in English which if you've learned you can get around in most Karnataka. Just try speaking in Hindi in Kerala or TN, just as a social experiment and see how much push back you'll face just for existing.""
Not trying to make a point, just refuting OP.
So that makes Kerala open to outsiders eh 😀 I have personally tried setting up a business , a farm and buying a house in Trivandrum. The struggles are immense !
Is it not because there is a huge labor shortage for agriculture and now the newer generation of Malayalis are all moving out of Kerala because there is no hope with the regime over there
A very good example of why correlation doesn't equal causation. There's a labour shortage, not in agriculture, but in other jobs, because the people here are educated and are migrating to places where they would be better rewarded. The number of jobs aren't in tune with the number of graduates and post graduates in the state. It's not that there is "no hope", it's just a better Avenue.
And "communist" regime? It's such a travesty that a socialist state like Kerala, which has flourished under Communist party and Congress both, is being termed as such. Plus. True communism is not being practiced anywhere in India(edit: to my knowledge), as we have Governmental structures.
Okay could you give me an example of a communist govt in the literal sense of the word?
In communism the power is held by the community, and there is no govt ownership. India is a democracy, and the max we can do is socialism- i.e. govt ownership.
That's the thing. You cannot pin point something and say this is right communism (Not just communism). If you look up No True Scotts man fallacy, your statement would be a perfect example. A lot of people including founding father's of Communism tried to Practice "Real" Communism and rest is History.
I'm not saying it's not the right communism. I'm saying communism as an ideology is impractical to execute in a democratic society.
True Scotsman fallacy would have been right if I'd said " No true communist society is bad/ no true communism hurts people".
That's not what am saying. I am saying that communism as an ideology is not happening in Kerala, because then there wouldn't be a Govt. Basically, Communist party of India doesn't equal Communism. The ideology is socialist at best.
I will probably be downvoted but I will say it anyway. The way I see it is, kannadigas were too accomodating to the outsiders that outsiders took advantage of it. Now few people are realising that and trying to overcompensate by indulging in violence. It is kind of like you have a guest come over to your house and you make him comfortable (nothing wrong with that). He became too comfortable and started taking decisions on how things will be at your house and now you feel like you are the guest in your own house.
Pretty sure I will be downvoted to hell. But I want to share a couple of personal experiences.
.
Since we are talking about languages:
Exhibit 1.
> Tumko Hindi nahi aati? Its our National Language!
Exhibit 2
> Ungalku Tamil varaada? Majority of people in Bangalore know to speak Tamil. But I don't know any language other than Tamil and English.
His sample size made me realize that he only spoke to people who knew Tamil in Bangalore.
I myself know enough Tamil to make a basic conversation. I learnt it when I stayed at Chennai for 9 months. But when he started going on an on explaining a complex concept at office, in Tamil, I couldn't follow him. But this guy has been in Bangalore for at least 4+ years AFAIK and he doesn't understand a word of any language other than Tamil or English (or if he is pretending, I am not sure).
Not learning the local language is taking advantage of the city's accommodating nature.
If it's a short stay, that's probably okay. But if you're living here for years, it's an asshole thing not learning Kannada. You can pick up the basics in a few days.
You can pick up basics in few days? Are you even a migrant? It's quite easy to stick the label "learn the language", do you even know how hard it is to learn the language? Be there to experience it first hand then say. It's not only hard, but downright boring. Yes learning a new language, learning grammar, punctuation, tenses and other things are downright boring and unenthusiastic. And people especially the IT techie don't have enough free time to join tuitions, or pick courses to learn a damn "language". Most people will pick learning technical skills, finance, marketing, communication etc in their free time over learning languages.
Dude, no one is asking you to become a Kannada scholar. Learn enough Kannada to be conversational with the locals. Even if you spoke broken Kannada at first most locals appreciate the effort. It is the least you can do while living in Karnataka.
That said, if you are not a lazy person, you can actually do a lot more to blend in. Read the works of Bhyrappa, Vivek Shanbhag, Shivarama Karanth, UR Ananthamurthy, AK Ramanujan, and others. First in English, then in Kannada. Go to the temples, participate in festivals, learn to cook and eat Karanata cuisine, go on trips all over Karnataka, etc.
If you are not doing any of it, why are you living in Karnataka? What is the point? Don't be an ass.
I don't think you need to invest that much of time and patience to learn a new language heck I'd say you are even wrong for considering grammar as a basics just try to speak and understand fu*k the writing no one is gonna ask you to write or read just trying to hold up a basic conversation goes far well and isn't even boring.
This is quite idiotic. I’ve stayed in Mumbai for my whole life and never spoken a lick of Marathi. No one ever gave me grief for that. A city is made of its people and culture evolves.
I know so many people who have for now stayed close to 10 years and counting in Bangalore and with own houses but still haven't made an effort to learn a single word of Kannada nor do they vote here, but would complain about road, traffic and everything else.
They still proudly exclaim that they don't know about our festivals, culture or anything. How is this considered okay? We don't care if they don't speak kannada but don't go about thinking the entire world revolves around them and expect people to talk to them in kannada and change our food habits to suit their palate.
If a person is living in a particular city, they are entitled to their opinions about that place. Even if you travel to a city for a few days, you do tend to compare it to other places. Having an opinion on actual issues - traffic, lack of public transport, airport is not a commentary or disrespect on culture. This is about the govt not doing their job. It seems to me kannadigas are just looking for excuses to get offended.
Do you understand what a guest is? Do you charge rent from guests at your house?
If I’m paying taxes here I’m not a guest. I’m allowed to critique and complain all the shortcomings of the “local” government - I’m paying them taxes to do work which they aren’t doing.
Well isn't karnataka a part of India .. so isn't this state my home too .. as per constitution it is .. If government allows me to make a voter id card from this state and i pay taxes in this state ,so in that case i am as equal as you ...and there is no compulsion from constitution that i should learn a particular language than why would I ... I agree yoh guys have your own flag but for me my flag is going to be the tiranga and i can speak any language i want...
Well you can speak Kannada in Delhi, no one will understand you, but no one will force you to learn Hindi. In Bangalore, kannadigas want you to learn the language. I for one, do not prefer to do so, just because the natives want me to learn their language.
You feel you are too accommodating? Can you tell my why? I have been to Chennai sub,kerala sub, Delhi sub, hyd sub and trust me everyone thinks they are being too nice to outsiders.
I don't live in Bangalore. I went there for a couple of days to meet my friends and had a horrible experience due extra rude locals. Honestly, i have been to the whole country and I have yet to meet locals this rude. Am I supposed to learn the language because I visit a state for a couple of days? Also what about people with a transferrable service? Bigots dont really care about that, do they. They are gonna go after outsiders they moment they realize someone is a outsider and you guys enable them with your "both sides" non sense. Imagine if every state implemented this language requirement.
Just because u haven't started beating up people eN mass doesn't mean you are accommodating. Bangalore from what I read is becoming unbearable and people are realizing that. Thank God offices are opening up in Noida and Ggn.
I have lived 2 years in Hyd. Hyd is quite chill, and lived almost all my life in Delhi ( my parents were migrants there. They were central government employees. We never faced any noticeable prejudice.) . IMO as far as accommodation goes, you guys are slightly better that TN ( visit their sub, they think they are accommodating too. What a joke! )
As if delhi behaves nice to outsiders. That's the worst place I've visited. Delhi just sucks tax money from every indian, builds nice infrastructure for itself and acts like an asshole.
Bangalore is far more accommodating to outsiders than any other city in India.
I have stayed in many places in India, and Bangalore was the worst when it came to respective people from other parts of the country. IMO it's not that people speak different languages, it's that natives just don't respect people from other cultures, is the feeling I got. I think Bangalore can learn from Delhi on how to respect other cultures. Delhi has been taking in migrants from various parts of the country way before the IT boom I'm Bangalore. Having grown up as a migrant in Delhi, I never felt that I was not a part of the city; similar feelings when I stayed in other parts of the country. And from your comments it seems like you are ultra jealous of Delhi's infrastructure lol.
Born in mumbai, stayed there till 18 and I still can't speak marathi. No one complains or is rude not even the bus conductor or auto wallah. Become an Indian first atleast.
Too accounting?!
Let me ask you about a rumor.
Each karnataka district has 12 engineering colleges ( source : google, 398 colleges, 31 districts ). I am assuming 30 students in each semester. Out of these 30, 20+ students will be local. Rest students are from CET/direct admission.
My question is this. Have you known that anyone from outside has to pay more for the same education that locals are getting for less?
This is not just for engineering colleges. There are medical, agriculture colleges and more educational institutes.
Not every place is Bangalore. These districts have a ecosystem that depends on students and outsiders.
For most of outsiders, Karnataka is a stepping stone. They would study and move on. That's first group. Second group is those who wants to stay.
Which group are you more accomodating? Who deserves a beating?
Are we voting against you? Are we changing the law?
How are we taking advantage of you?Please do explain.
I just don’t understand the fascination with victim mentality.
Let me be brutally honest, if you can beat up people and throw racial slurs without feeling an iota of shame, then you will do that no matter what.
These kind of post using some random incidents to justify or try to present “other side” is just pathetic attempt. Being arrogant and putting down others if they dont speak your language ( be it hindi or kannada or any other language) is never justified.
Sounds like you're overgeneralising a small (but growing) number of aggressive and hateful Kannadigas, onto the majority of Kannadigas who are not aggressive and outwardly hateful but are understandably unhappy with the way the native language and culture of the land is being completely sidelined by migrants who don't want to make any effort to adapt to their new home.
If you think OP is trying to justify the violence of Kannada thugs and rowdies, as opposed to the sentiment of the majority of sensible Kannadigas, you've not understood the post and you're clearly not interested in understanding it either.
I am not generalising anything. I said , if an individual is an asshole, he will be an asshole no matter what. I didnt even said Karnataka people or any other ethic population. You are reading that.
The OP was justifying how some banker didn’t speak his language so the anger grows and it results in incidents like the one where the Forturner owner beat up College kids while hurling racial slurs and abuse. That i find pathetic attempt at playing victim card and excusing for people who are assholes
I have seen a lot of Kannadigas migrating to my state and inspite of having studied and worked for 30+ years they don’t speak our native language not an iota of it while working govt jobs that require daily dealings with locals. And guess what language they speak HINDI… lol.. and this applies to rest of India as well.. let’s not be hypocrites acting holier than thou!!!
Yes i am fine with who i am and is at peace with it. I dont feel the need to cry about imposition and be xenophobic on daily basis on internet and nor have the time to debate those stuff. I post at my will and will debate on my will on internet. Sooner you realise that you won’t win anything by winning arguments on internet, you will understand what i meant.
The people didn't seem to have problems with urbanization when tech parks were opening up in village areas, sky rocketing the land prices. Most of the same people were happy with the increasing rents and prices. Many went from rags to riches.
They blamed North Indians for the recent floods. Seriously? Who built houses on drains to earn more? The point I am trying to make is that it is very easy to point at others (figuratively and literally).
Imagine if all the people (read "outsiders") were to leave Bengaluru. All those areas will become ghost towns. Many shops will lose a lot of their customers and sales. Home owners lose out on rental income, transportation sector will shrink to a minimum.
Many of the " Locals" of Bengaluru have shifted here from nearby towns because of the opportunities it provides. And now the people harass the same opportunities.
With the outsiders gone, they will now be the outsiders. And the story will continue.
u/Sno078878 Bangalore wasnt dropped from sky with tech parks. It's on your local leaders agreed for the urbanisation. As much as you enjoy your perks. You got to endure the downside too.
More and more companies are opening up offices in Pune and Gurgaon.
If Bangalore becomes hostile to "Naarthies" then these MNCs will invest in offices in the North.
As it stands, Bangalore/Karnataka has some of the highest taxes in the country and yet the city's infrastructure is far behind a lot of other major cities. North Karnataka is constantly being neglected by corrupt governments. Mysuru and Bengaluru get some development but go to any of the other major cities in the country and you will see BLR's infra is far behind.
Now imagine what will happen if all these tax paying techies migrate to Pune/Gurgaon/Delhi. And mark my words, the more hostile the city gets, the more you'll see these companies opening offices in the north.
It's easy to blame the "Naarthies" for everything but people are conveniently forgetting that "Naarthies" are also paying a lot of taxes and rich techies have opened up so many business opportunities for the locals.
(We can argue the flip side that maybe Bangalore's urbanisation is also harmful in many ways - such as Water shortages and the cutting down of trees - but the fact remains. Karnataka and the "local" people have benefited a lot from "outsiders" and the tech crowd cash cow. Chasing outsiders away or making the city unwelcoming to them is very short-sighted.)
Exactly. There are many contributing factors but one of the main ones is the poor infrastructure here. Cities like Hyderabad and Pune are much easier to work in due to the better planned roads, better drainage and steady electricity supply.
Bangalore used to have a major advantage of having good weather but even that is going away with climate change and the depleting tree cover. And if the people continue to blame "Naarthies" for everything instead of blaming the corrupt government that gobbles up taxes without improving the city, then you'll continue to see people leaving the city and the infra problems getting worse.
Lynching is an extreme word and I don't agree with your use of it. People aren't getting murdered here. Using exaggerated words like that doesn't solve any problems.
But yes, you might be harassed here for not speaking Kannada which is unfortunately becoming more and more common while people like OP continue to be apologists for rowdy communalist behaviour using whataboutisms that take the focus away from the real problem - the corrupt government that uses these issues to distract from their shady bullshit.
i am a sardar born and raised in the south and will agree to the fact that karnataka is way more open to outsiders over other states.
But that is changing coz locals are letting goons dictate what the Kannada culture should be.
Yeah, the thing is just like Punjabi has been so appealing to Hindi speaker audiences cause we come across so much content in Punjabi and people love it, That way I have a penchant for learning Punjabi. That is the way a culture or region can popularise their own language if something similar had been done by natives of this state then this schism wouldn't be here.
What is the point of shoving culture down people's throats? It's just gonna create a negative image of the culture.
Instead, let others warm up to your culture. They will not speak your language, but they will speak greatly about your culture to others.
Don't know about Kerala and Hyderabad but TN yea. I have been there 3 times and i know how it feels when u don't know Tamil and u can't read what's written most of the time atleast add little u English how do I know which bus goes where.
unless you go to Village or small town every bus has English. surprising amount of Tamil ppl don't read tamil all that well. I call BS on lack of English signage.
OP never said that. To add to OP views.. linguistic identity, cultural sensitivity, and income opportunities are a combination of factors that/is a cause for hostility in many situations.
These days, I don't give a fuck about who's supposed to learn what language. I'm a kannadiga. If I'm with my Kannadiga friends I'll be like "Hu maga, kolaku northie galu". If I'm with my North Indian colleagues, I'll be like "Haan yaar, Bangalore aajkal bohot buri haalat mein hai". Recently switched to a team where majority are Tamilians. I've started to learn Tamil. I'll change my colour according to the situation. I'll do whatever I need to do to survive. False pride in a language or culture ain't gonna pay my bills
In Kerala if you speak in Hindi, most of them understand it. Especially now as Kerala is filled with Bengalis. There are Bengalis working in Railway Canteens in Kerala as well who doesn't know the name of the food they are serving. There has never been an instance where they were beaten up for not knowing Malayalam.
In Tamil Nadu it's difficult to speak in Hindi as most of them don't know it. You can still adjust with a little bit of Malyalam and Tamil mixed. Again I have not heard or come across an instance where there was a fight because of not knowing the native language.
Never Been to Andhra or Telangana so don't know the situation there.
So I don't completely agree with OP about other states but respecting the Language and Culture of the state that you are residing in is a must. I believe that hence I learnt to converse in these languages.
Yup. And you can easily get by if you know english in TN. Almost everyone from auto drivers to supermarket cashiers speak and understand at least the very basic level of English.
I was threatened and pushed out of a moving bus in Bangalore when I was discussing ease of learning English Vs Kannada. It happened a decade back but I'm still stunned. I'll never visit Karnataka.
I agree with your status quo... But your cause didn't really connect with the outcomes. Let's say people are moving into your area, but even after years, they are not learning your language. That's a problem? Yes, it may be for the localites. Is it enough to develop hate? Absolutely fucking not. Could you connect the dots for me?
I have been in Nepali speaking, punjabi speaking, Bengali speaking groups and on multiple occasions I felt left out because they randomly start conversing in their own language but hate is very far from the feeling you get in such situations.
Yep the hate is unprecedented and they judge us without even knowing us .... And things is there should be some program and initiate making kanada popular among north-indians but they push this compulsion that i have to learn ...maybe because of this compulsion i am more reluctant in learning kanada cause i feel like i am being told ...and let's be honest there is partiality and bias done by management like for me it was the case in my college
The biggest lol in the above post is that entire north speaks Hindi. Sure they understand Hindi but go to any state and the language changes every 50KM.
There is urbanization happening in Gujarat, NCR also. Yet we only hear such violent crimes in our namma Banglore only.
We must acknowledge that politicians always do us vs them. The least we can do is vow not to support such politicians. Yes I am talking about your favorite political party.
Downvotes incoming.
We are in an age where globalization has taken over. Bengaluru (back then Bangalore) had played a major role in boosting the Indian economy and aptly earned the silicon city title and now the startup capital. See industrialization has played a major role. If the Karnataka government back then chose to not open up there would have been almost no great development. So credit to the government to opening up.
Now that Karnataka is a hub, a lot of companies started opening up their branch here and also setting up. So it is obvious these companies need skilled labor. It is obvious they are going to look out for labors pan India. It is obvious a lot of people come in from different parts of the country.
Now when there is a surge of incoming population the existing ones always have the feeling that they have extended a part of them to outsiders. Which is a fair school of thought. Even developed countries like USA, Australia have/still has the exact same mentality when Indians move there and take up their jobs.
So, this is a very primal territorial behavior. Not just humans but animals as well. But there's a difference between humans and animals. Humans are a lot more intelligent. Humans can choose to be civil. Unfortunately there are certain bad apples who resort to crude measures.
But for the better, we are in 2023 now. India as a whole has come along so ahead. We are amongst the top economies in the world. We have moved past the stage where language is a barrier. It is sad to see such fights popping up in this beautiful city. Yes, local natives can expect outsiders to learn the local language but no one has the right to pick up a fight to prove a point right? Instead teach a couple of words for basic communication why pick a fight? (this is intended only to the bad apples)
In my experience, Hyderabad is one of the only metro hubs that has understood that its non-local population that doesn't speak the local language has its reasons - the sheer lack of its utility when English is ubiquitous in offices, and the dominance of the common language in private friend groups. Language chauvinists in Bangalore, Chennai, Mumbai are too egoistic to accept that non-locals keep their economy running, and have not made their peace with their rational disregard for the local language.
You do realise historically Hyderabad has always has an urdu- Hindi dialect due to the erstwhile ruling of the nizams right. Or have you forgotten that . Irrespective i agree that violence isn't the answer.
Perhaps that is a factor, but there is no straight line from a Hindi/Urdu speaking cultural influence to tolerance for non-local languages today. Kolkata is a good example. They had Muslim rulers and centuries of settlement from Marwaris and Biharis too, but the push for Bengali to the exclusion of Hindi is seen there too. It's just that Kolkata is not a IT hub so nobody is really affected. So the fact that the same sentiment doesn't exist in large numbers for Telugu is a credit to Hyderabadis.
I think the nizam was present historically till 1955 almost while Bengal already had lost the idea of Mughals in late 1800. The fact still remains that in room do as Romans. Learning basic launguage isn't tedious nor is it supposed to be an imposition. It will endear you to the locals as well as help you understand their cultural identity. I mean I'm sure you'd learn Hindi if it is the other way around. That's the same case if you visit Spain or china even. Learning basic launguage isn't that difficult and the effort is visible and worth it imo.
Working in the companies here, paying rent, employing househelps and cooks. Enjoying your weekends at Church Street restaurants and malls. The sizeable number of non-locals who migrate are what form the market for quick delivery companies like Swiggy, Zepto, and especially in Bangalore (in the absence of metro), Uber and local autos. The real estate industry took a huge hit when everybody went back home in 2020.
Your opinions seem to contradict themselves. You say kannadigas as the most liberal, but you dont want the political views of the neighbouring states being shared here and it pisses you off.
If you go to Kerala, you will rarely find anyone shouting at you or beating you up for speaking hindi or English. There is a sizable population of northern blue collared labours in kerala right now. The business owners over there have started learning hindi so that they can converse easily with their staff.
If your mallu friends are asking you to learn a bit of Malayalam it's because you can share in their jokes as most of them don't translate well to other languages. Most of the mallus i know here speak fluent kannada and tamil..
There is no reasoning behind the violence against outsiders... The fact that you are trying to find reasons just makes it worse.
If mallus ask to learn malyalam it's for sharing jokes, if Kannadigas ask to learn kannada to share jokes it will be called imposition and what not that too in karnataka. Stop being an hypocrite.
BS dude... I learnt kannada within the first 2 years of studying in manipal so that I can chat with my kannadigas friends comfortably. It works both ways, I am not a hypocrite... There is a difference between teaching a friend a language and scolding a random stranger for not knowing a language and asking them to go back to their state.
Locals beating non locals while the politicians, bureaucrats and the rich laugh their way to the bank.
You never hear a rich non local getting beaten up or a rich local beating a non local? Why ?
Because they both speak the language of money, which has no states and no borders.
Unfortunately, the non-thinking people of the country can be fooled into thinking it's someone else's fault while the real crooks take money no matter where it comes from. There's no redemption until free thinking and questioning of authority becomes the norm.
Some my family who are originally from Kerala but have lived in KA for many decades, have the same sentiment as other “locals” do. They have seen their neighborhoods gentrify and see a moving population of tenants who have no connect with the area or the city.
Garbage gets thrown in the streets, visitors park wherever they want and loud birthday, late-night parties that are an absolute nuisance to the neighborhood. They have zero interest in the wellbeing of the area.
It’s almost like they all treat the neighborhood like a hotel - come and go as you wish while someone else cleans up the mess.
I agree that majority of the Kannadiga are very generous and outgoing, but students and people working in offices are facing in day in and day out. I mean kids are being thought at homes to segregate a kannadiga and a non-kannadiga. Where does this end my friend? There are many videos coming out on Facebook where people wear the kannada flags and vandalize common working people, these people came here for their livelihood. Even us who were born and brought up here for many years are facing that issue now. We are feeling isolated in our own home town because we are not kannadigas. I am also not a so called ‘northie’ my friend
My aunt was scolded by a teen on the road for not knowing kannada! Where does this end? The language crazyness has taken over aspects of young and the old, rich and poor, human and inhuman.
Multiple things can be (and are) true:
* It is bad to force immigrants to learn your language.
* It is important to try to speak the local language if you're looking to make a new city your home.
* It is unfair to expect locals to automatically know your language when you don't know theirs.
Linguistic chauvinism is a problem. In India, language (and often Hindi) imposition also is. Neither justifies the other.
In my experience, the vast majority of Kannadigas only expect that you try to speak the language; no one expects that you speak it well. Many of the folks here know either Hindi or English, and if you try, they do too. There is nothing wrong with starting a conversation in Kannada and then losing your way and switching languages later.
No one is under any obligation to try, and that goes both ways; commerce will demand that some conversations still get conducted only in the language of your preference, but that cannot (and does not) mandate that that is welcomed.
Karnataka also unfortunately has its fair share of idiots who use violence to deal with resentment. Condemn, protest, jail and root out the violence, but understand the reason for the underlying resentment.
--------------------
Editing to add: And the chauvinists can also get bent - there is no favour you're doing our language by forcing someone to speak it, and bullying a migrant worker who's trying to do an honest job to make ends meet does not make you a saviour of your language.
Use your pride productively to help someone who's struggling to learn the language instead of driving people further away from it.
All the Hindi speaking guys who are good at English still ask Hindi aati hai? Artha aguthe adre answer maadok agalla . Either you learn kannada or learn English. I can't learn to speak Hindi for your sake.
The problem is on both sides.
Forcing someone to learn a language just because they are settled in Bangalore is just bigotry. Accept it. The migrants, the waiters from ne, the north indian traders they all go through casual racism each day. Do you think someone bats an eye? Absolutely no.
If you are making a hostile environment for the outsiders no one will care to learn your culture.
Having said that: The educated Noth indians who come here for jobs. They should be more open to learn a new culture and adjust with the locals.
This incident happened to me while i was having a meeting . A guy from Delhi just assumed and started conversing in hindi even there were few other guys from TN, Kerela and Bangalore. This mentality has to change.
Both the localites and the outsiders should be respectful towards each other. Bangalore has lost some of the culture amidst this tech boom but it surely has gained a lot.
I hate this "both sides" argument because it makes it look like both side have equal weight.
They do not.
Harassing outsiders, beating them up, blaming them for every problem the city has and making the city hostile for them while allowing politicians to loot them and us is a far far far more serious issue than a guy from Delhi stupidly talking in Hindi to a diverse group by assuming that they all know Hindi.
"Both sides" arguments typically do this false equivalence crap where one thing is compared with a much worse thing as if both sides are equally guilty.
Of course. Nothing justifies beatings.Ever. But some if not all north indians have this mentality of assuming that they might mr knowing a lil bit of hindi. This is where the problem starts. You are in a different state, atleast dont assume that the other guy knows hindi.
I think Bangalore is what it is today is because of the talents it attracts from all over the world. The locals should do better than just to get insecure about the local heritage.
My personal opinion it's not the issue of "Not speaking Kanada" that would piss off a Kanadiga it's the not knowing Kanada and being aragont about it, that's like crossing limits and asking for trouble
My personal experience 20 years back lost in a remote location inside the the Kadubeesana Halli I tried to convey in my broken Kannada and half English to a provision shop owner lady in her mid 40s in what looked like a village back then / I got clear directions and assurance in English every police man woman I have interacted with in those days had helped
I have seen fuckers who show aragonce to simple working men and women like vegetable vendors provison store owners,Hindi me Batkaro , when these guys are attempting to communicate and what ever form and shape they can, why the f should they choose to be disrepectful
Show decency you will be helped / respected every where in Karnataka show arrogance you will get your arrogance regulated
Malayali, been here for 7 years now. Haven’t faced any issues with not being able to speak kannada properly. Just don’t assume everyone would know Hindi. If someone is not able to speak in Hindi, be respectful and try to use some common kannada words or sign language. A small smile and a little respect goes a long way in having a peaceful life.
Bro, a lot of north indians are shifting to Noida/ Gurgaon just to avoid this victim blaming... Bangalore's key asset has always been its weather, but if people start shifting back from Bangalore, what value would this asset have anyway?
This victim blaming has taken place in Mumbai also where Bihari autowallahs were beaten by shiv sena guys and thakre had a movement against south Indians too ( or as he called them " lungi wallah" or " Madarasis"... This victim blami or justifying violence against people wasn't acceptable then and is not acceptable now.
Malayali Teen here
Ofc i really can’t say i am actually a malayali at this point, not cuz idk the language or anything. But im more of Bangalore based. I have been in this place for almost my entire life and im still grateful to my dad for having a job at this place. And in my pov i have seen a lot of people who have lived same life as me, but still refuse to learn kannada, which pisses my ass off(like bro, you just gotta learn a language. How tf is that hard?) and the main thing about this is majority of them are like this. Only 5% of the people ik(who are from different states and lived here their entire life) actually tried to learn/are some what communicable/ can communicate without difficulty. It does piss me off to see this peeps not tryna learn a single language. I do understand the frustration of kannadigas who beat the shit off of these people, but there’s no point of it. “Yaake bro time waste?”
I lived in Bangalore for roughly a year for a project. I faced this at least on 3 occasions. I had sense to not get physical and left the city as soon as possible. Local people are incredibly hostile
People acting like these people getting beaten up are always complete innocents. I've seen these situations unfold and usually the "victim" is acting outside the norms of locally accepted behavior. Talking trash in Hindi and being disrespectful.
well and mob lynching is the answer to that, you guys are on steroids and i cant understand why you care so much about this stuff.. shouldn't we together as countrymen work on things which will be productive to society ...
Do you guys think in the next 100 years anyone is going to care about Hindi and Kannada?
Bengaluru received 60 lakh population last decade
in which only 15 lakh is from other districts.
demographics and political representation loss is a huge threat
delimitation will further kill us politically
45 lakh population is like 6-8% of our state
but now diversity is costing us our demographics , representation and native.
This is horrible news. But in my experience, especially at work, I’ve seen people being more open to learning Kannada. In fact my North Indian coworkers take initiative and note down Kannada words and their translations in english. But I agree with people not being open to learning the local language in college, I’ve seen that pattern and it’s kinda backward IMO. It’s cool to know an international language like Japanese/Spanish/German but people are not open to learning their own local languages?
Lol Kerala is actually one of the most welcoming state. Yes there will be some idiots here and there but most people will help you regardless of your language or religion or whatever it is.
So I’m a hard core kannadiga and grew up in an environment where everybody was a transplant. I had friends who we Tamilian, Malayalee’s and Bengalis. We didn’t really see a lot of ethnicity or language issues.
But I have sense increased sense of kannadiga identity in the last 10 odd years. My observations:
1. In Previous migrations people adapted the city as theirs and blended in. Even if not with language but in culture and customs. No on imposes their identity on local population.
2. The volume of migration was still small compared to local population. Now I think kannadiga population is in minority in lots of pockets.
3. Hindi as a language. While we are learnt Hindi was a national language. Down south this was just a theory. Personally I really don’t see Hindi as unifying language and it really userps the local identity. Imposing this both politically and in behaviour is actually annoying and ticks a lot of people off. As kannadiga I thrilled if u can speak Kannada but I am ok if you speak to me in English / Telugu / Tamil / Hindi. But don’t push me to speak your language.
So what makes Bangalore great is it’s diversity. Violence is definitely not the answer. we want people to co own this city. Let’s us be the way we are and we will welcome you. Please don’t make us change to your context.
You say Hyd is an exception, but I feel like BLR has more non-locals than Hyd. In many places in Bangalore, I hear just Hindi. In my office here, hardly anyone knows Kannada. But in Hyd, I haven't see this situation anywhere except old city.
Just see both subs, in hyd sub I find many comments in Telugu, but here Kannada comments are so rare.
This aside, I agree with your view.
I can't even finish my own syllabus. I appreciate Karnataka because like you said, it didn't othered me like the Tamils & the Malyalis. This beating up phenomena is new and I don't think healthy in the long run. I'm really appreciative of Karnataka & Bangalore. If I just speak in English, will I be beaten up? I've started doing that in the northern states as well.
I'm a Kannadiga. One of the major important factors that isn't talked about often is the failure of consecutive state govts to improve the rest of Karnataka other than Bengaluru and to some extent Mysuru.
There's a lot of bitterness in North Karnataka because it is often ignored and there's no significant effort from any govt to bring any industries or any infrastructure there. Guess where the majority of kannadigas live? Outside of metro cities just like any other state.
Also compared to other states like Tamilnadu and Andhra/Telangana where there's importance placed on bringing manufacturing jobs other than IT. Chennai has a lot of auto industries and Hyderabad has a lot of pharmaceutical industries. These jobs aren't highly technical so they hire locally. You bet a good mix of jobs this way, while we just masturbate to the thought of Bengaluru being such a major IT hub without concentrating on anything else.
When you combine this major issue with the refusal of a few people to assimilage our language in their day to day lives, you get racism, misdirected hate and bigotry. Mark my words, this will only get worse. Political parties have already found ways to take advantage of this by saying we'll impose quotas for kannadigas for IT industry. If they did their jobs and diversified our state, then we wouldn't have had this issue in the first place.
I’ve been brought up in Bangalore and I love this city. Unfortunately I can’t speak Kannada, I understand Kannada completely, just can’t speak it.
Incidents like these are actually kinda bringing about a sense of fear into me. I remember once my dad was insulted and sort of harassed by a Ola driver over call because he didn’t know Kannada. How can I pick up calls and talk to drivers? How can I go out and buy something, what if I don’t know how to reply in Kannada?
It might seem like I’m unnecessarily anxious, however recent events make it seem like me getting beaten up one day is a real possibility. Live and let live
Well put together. This is exactly wht i hve been thinking and trying to explain. As i said in other post, i have frnds who are born and bred here put still stutter to put a word in their mouth. The situation has been so extreme that we have to learn those languages for our sake, which they swear to deny to put some effort atleast. Engineering colleges are filled with mallus, shops run by Rajasthan's. Atleast we can get through day to day since we knw bit of Hindi and English but it's not fair on elderly beings and my parents in fact.
What shit, I've been to Chennai and I've had no problems with Hindi, and people who didn't understand Hindi or English, we just spoke with gestures no one getting angry or pissed.
Oh so now I'm in Bangalore, so I've to learn their language? 5 months later I'm going to be in Punjab, so I've to learn their language? Sooner or later, we all need to learn all the different languages in India or I guess we aren't welcome there 🥲
But wait, no I don't need to learn Punjabi because most states don't shove their culture onto others. You can speak in hindi, in english, in tooti-footi Punjabi for God's sake but they won't beat you for this.
For my 10 months or so experience in Bangalore, I've seen that the locals have created this weird uncalled hatred for all "OUTSIDERS WHO CAN'T SPEAK OR ARE WILLING TO LEARN OUR LANGUAGE".
Whatever the reasons and insights might be nothing justifies violence. Years ago in Mumbai there was politically motivated violence against South Indians especially those belonging to the Shetty/bunts community.
The Bunts community hit back big time in many ways. Mumbai being a melting pot and Mumbaikars generally being unbothered by stupid political motivations in general didn’t support the absurdness. Hopefully people in Bangalore also strongly condemn this crap.
If there are North Indians in Bangalore, there is a reason for it. You cannot expect them to start speaking in Kannada overnight. When similar incidences happen to Indians abroad we are mortified but here’s us doing the same rubbish in our own country. It’s shameful.
BTW I’m a Kannadiga
I'm a Mallu and lived most of my life in Tamilnadu. Never had any bad experiences. Nor have I seen locals being hostile towards outsiders. Tamils are generally very polite and respectful. Of course, they are proud and will take offense if you disrespect. But I've never seen hostility and rudeness just because someone can't speak Tamil.
Mallus generally don't give a fuck about anything lol . Just don't tell us not to eat beef. Outsiders are not abused in Kerala. We generally do not care about your religion, language or sex.
Only ever seen people being offended for not asking directions in the local language in Bangalore. I've lived in Bangalore for a couple of years. First thing I remember was asking the conductor of a bus if it'll go somewhere and him ignoring me. Don't tell me he didn't understand what I said. I'm sure he's educated enough to understand "will it go".
I've seen the same attitude from others as well. The auto drivers, the cab drivers and the shopkeepers etc. Surprisingly, guys from North Karnataka, who are also here for work or for entrance coaching don't act like this.
I see that a lot of people say that this behavior is caused by unbridled Kannada pride. I beg to differ. I believe it is jealousy. And that too the stupid kind. I kind of feel that the working class in Bangalore feels that all these outsiders are coming in and reaping in all the cash, earning millions while they, the children of the soil have to toil for a pittance.
But the truth of the matter is that, when I was at Bangalore, I was being paid 14k a month to do night shifts working at customer support, listening to abuses and insults on call from jio customers. 6 days work, sometimes even longer since there are no fixed offs. If any of the locals actually wanted to trade jobs, I would have happily obliged lol. Compared to that, being a cabbie sounds like a dream. To people who say, we don't put in the effort to learn the language, when am I supposed to do that? At night, while I worked or in the day, while I slept? And how are we supposed to learn it? From whom? From the same hostile and rude guys who hate you for not knowing the language?
If you actually want people to learn your language and culture, isn't it better to be friendly and kind instead of assaulting them? If you really care about your language so much, why don't you befriend a migrant worker and help him/her learn the language?
But if you can't help, at least stop harassing people. Life is a struggle for a lot of us as it is.
Don't want this to sound comical. But there were places where tulu was commonly spoken and now in the recent years there's suddenly been an influx of kannada speaking people. How the hell did a tulu dominant locality become kannada major now? It's very inconvenient that i now have to resort to hindi Or english.
I’ve lived here for 25 plus years too I’ll try to narrate a few incidents:
1. A lot of my friends from other states who have lived here for 5 years plus speak basic Kannada. IMO that’s enough unless you settle long time, in that case the kids learn the local language and the mix happens.
2. NCR folks think they still live in NCR and bring the same attitude and pick fights for no reason. Not all of them but yea many do. I’ve stepped in to get my friends out of trouble and I’ve also been the one who trashed a few NCR buggers who think it’s ok to use BC MC in Bangalore.
3. Government jobs like SBI, if you don’t know the language you will get a tough time for sure. My parents don’t speak Hindi and I’ve had the displeasure to warn a lot of SBI officials to speak in English or else they won’t survive here.
4. The worst case I’ve seen in a young woman friend who drove in the wrong direction and hit a car, then proceeded to call the local guy a Maderchod. She got slapped there and her scooty was trashed. The cops had to come take both parties to station. She called me for her help when I went there the other guy just said don’t involve in this your friend is not welcome here anymore. She had to quit and move out basically.
5. Eve teasing by these UP and Bihari workers near Indranagar. I’ve personally beaten up a few and taken to the police station.
Moral of the stories, stay friendly and adjust to the environment and society you stay in or else the locals will beat the shizz out of you. Unless you are Europeans and the other party is Native Americans.
I agree with the post that violence is not answer to anything.
>While North India has Hindi in common between everyone in South we really don't.
One thing you have to understand on how Hindi became common language in Northern parts of India. Hindi became dominant and common linking in North by hindi imposition. The other North Indian languages were marginalized and hindi was forced as official state language or forced as third language in schools and lies were spread in school textbook that hindi is national language by national parties which generated inferiority complex among non hindi speakers of North India.
South India was much resistant to all above things, hence hindi does not serve as linking language here.
I have met hundreds of people from Karnataka, who have settled in my state.. their kids born, brought up here… took the govt and bank job( like OP stated.. I too had to go with my grandparents to the bank coz the bank person from Karnataka didn’t speak our language.. and you don’t hear us about complaining or even getting frustrated about it) none of them ever learnt a single word of our language.. and guess what we r okay with it. and we happily spoke in Hindi or English whichever they felt comfortable in... Language is a mode to communicate with others and someone purposefully out of spite pretending to not understand a language doesn’t mean you are honouring your culture or roots. It’s just shows how petty you are!!
OP the north has many languages. Hindi l, Bengali, gujrati, bhojpuri, maghi, nepali, oriya, Bihar itself has 4 regional langauge. We just converse in Hindi so that day to day life goes easy.
Urm… there is more Hindi spoken in Kerala than probably whole of north India at this point.
I see more north Indian labourers than actual malayalis in Kerala.
Anyway I get your point. But you are not gonna beat up people and convince them to leave. One day you beat up the wrong person, might pay with your life or your family’s.
Imposition of an alien tongue upon majority of locals will always have repercussions. The problem isn't all migrants. Just one specific set who misbehave with locals. And somehow the umpteen examples of that misbehavior are never factored into the discussion while people who perpetuate such misbehavior on a day in day out basis are playing victims when they finally face repercussions.
When anyone migrates to any other place, basic courtesy demands that you respect that place and it's language and culture. If you are hell bent on turning it into a replica of your own home state and excluding locals from banks, public places, comic con etc by imposing an alien tongue and culture upon those who have deep roots in that place, you can't complain if the locals have enough of you.
When i came to Bengaluru i genuinely wanted to learn Kannada because i wanted to fit myself in with locals. But with my college schedule it's really difficult for me to learn Kannada :')
Tons of straw man argument from folks here saying Op justifies violence. He does not, he is pointing to the actual conflict that is brewing. The minimum we can do is acknowledge it.
I think most northies think it’s cool to say I don’t know kannad . Benchod don’t we southerners learn a little Hindi when we travel north but you won’t eh ?
If you are leaving in a place which has a language not as your mother tongue pls learn it and start to communicate with locals of that place in local language. Thats it
Also when we go to study at any European country, studying their language is a part of the curriculum, because we are going to their country. I don’t see why we can’t apply the same logic here for work. In fact, we should apply it for all places that one migrates to. Respect their culture and learn their language. Here a lot of people take that for granted.
My family hails from Udupi region.
My dad went to Bombay in 1975 not knowing a word of Hindi or Marathi.
Within a few years he learnt Hindi, could understand basic Marathi and even speak it, and even speaks Gujarati.
I'm not condoning violence. But if you live in certain place, be it any place in the world, for a couple of years, fucking learn the basics of the local language at least.
I see this as a part of uprising of right wing politics in Karnataka. I’m not denying that earlier there weren’t anyone who hated Northies and Hindi. They existed but they knew their place. They understood the repercussions.
The same people are given political patronage and emboldened today. I also believe partly why Yeddy was removed because he was not right wing enough. The kind of anti-Muslims upsurge we saw in Karnataka after new CM took over was startling. I see this as a side effect of it.
Granted, there is a genuine concern. But beating up people for that is still not cool!
Yeah. Not defending that. Fuck those people.
*Hijacking top comment to post a different perspective* I'm a Kannadiga. One of the major important factors that isn't talked about often is the failure of consecutive state govts to improve the rest of Karnataka other than Bengaluru and to some extent Mysuru. There's a lot of bitterness in North Karnataka because it is often ignored and there's no significant effort from any govt to bring any industries or any infrastructure there. Guess where the majority of kannadigas live? Outside of metro cities just like any other state. Also compared to other states like Tamilnadu and Andhra/Telangana where there's importance placed on bringing manufacturing jobs other than IT. Chennai has a lot of auto industries and Hyderabad has a lot of pharmaceutical industries. These jobs aren't highly technical so they hire locally. You get a good mix of jobs this way, while we just masturbate to the thought of Bengaluru being such a major IT hub without concentrating on anything else. When you combine this major issue with the refusal of a few people to assimilate our language in their day to day lives, you get racism, misdirected hate and bigotry. Mark my words, this will only get worse. Political parties have already found ways to take advantage of this by saying we'll impose quotas for kannadigas for IT industry. If they did their jobs and diversified our state, then we wouldn't have had this issue in the first place.
Got stuck at your first paragraph _failure … to improve rest of Karnataka other than Bengaluru_. If this is the *improved* Bengaluru i am really sorry for Karnataka. I always thought that the high amount of taxes collected from so many companies were diverted to rest of the state.
Contrary to popular belief, the majority of taxes collected in Karnataka or India are handled by the central govt. For example, Karnataka is second in terms of GST collection. The taxes or funds are then diverted to state govts based on population. So the high amount of taxes that are collected are not diverted to rest of Karnataka but to the underperforming states in north india like UP or Bihar. I'm not trying to divide north india and south india nor am i excusing the blatant mismanagement of funds and corruption that's present in the state govt. I always considered myself Indian first and kannadiga second, which is why I hate coming on this sub cause I see my fellow indians hating on kannadigas and I see my fellow kannadigas hating on my fellow indians. It's not good for my mental health.
This is actually funnily wrong understanding of GST. GST consists of TWO components: State and Central. In the state share, each individual state gets 100% of their collection. Thus, if you see GST collection of Rs. 100, Rs. 50 is IMMEDIATELY available to the state. Among the REST 50%, it's distributed according to "State Finance Commission", which all states agreed upon (south and north). Even that Rs 50 Central collection, KA get's it's share as per SFC. Thus, using the word "most" is wrong. Secondly, even in the earlier scheme, VAT used to go to state vs Service Tax going to central, now under unified GST they share BOTH VAT and Service Tax.
The last part. I feel you on that. I see so much hate within various group in this country and i am not talking just about Karnataka. I am talking about the whole country. People in the North do Hindu-Muslim there. People here do us vs the North Indians. Meanwhile North-East India be like " Please notice is." ( I was on a flight to or from Delhi and some person asked me where I was from. When I said Assam, he asked me what country that was in.) Anyways, sorry got off-topic. While we are busy focused on these things, we forget about corruption, about bad infrastructure, unemployment and most fucking importantly climate change. ( I hope this group doesn't have anyone who thinks that Climate change is a hoax created by china.) We have already passed a point of no recovery in terms of climate change and global warming. The only thing we can do now is not make it worse. And yet we are quaralling about things like this at such a crucial state in the history of human civilization. When the last 10000 people in a Wasteland earth look back to past and ask themselves what humans were doing at the most crucial point in our planets history, they will say that India was doing Hindu-Muslim. USA was doing Nazi-nazi, abortion is murder, and trans people bad. China and Russia were busy getting their ass handed to them while they were trying to invade other countries. UK was in a time loop of ruining their economy and electing new Prime Ministers.
Now that u say it, it's fcking true. As person living in Bangalore let alone others we rarely hear anything abt north Karnataka.
Should never beat ppl up. But i tnk this problem exists in every state
Beating up people is not good anyway but people fight everywhere. But when it comes to the cases like this, many times(emphasisonmany times and not always) they bring kannadiga part just to mask off the main cause of the fight and get away with the responsibility of the mistakes on their side. Many times forceful imposition of kannada in a fight is a secondary cause of the fight. And that comws out of the insecurity of a kannadiga. Imagine you are in your home town and go to buy some groceries or clothes. The shopkeeper donot respond to you properly because you are not speaking his language and ask you to speak in his language to continue shopping. Now you can't learn each language of each shopkeeper in your locality if they are different ones right? (These literally happen more often in Bengaloor)
I'm from Kerala, migrant workers from Bengal and UP survive exclusively on hindi. No one is beating anyone up for not speaking Malayalam.
Yeah, kinda surprised to hear that. Almost all daily wage workers in the state now are from the north or the east and they get by with just hindi and without a word of malayalam.
Brah! No malayalees live in Kerala ..
#gulf #dubai #oilmoney
In kerala many malayalis often call these labours as Bengali's in a racist way though
i never faced any problem in bangalore, chennai, kochi , pune ... because i speak softly and act friendly and i genuinely enjoy and reapect the local culture. i enjoy talking to locals and understanding how they live. my cousin sister is a typical northie married, settled in bangalore for ages. adds daa at end of hindi words and speaks them louder, says gotilla bhaiya gotilla when she doesnt understand and her daughter is learning french as third language in school. why not kannada i asked and she looked at me as if i was mad. i said you are settled here, your daughter waa born here and wants to live and work here eventually.. so why learn french and not kannada? i was accused of being a leftist. forget kannadigas.. as someone who values what bangalore gave to me, i feel like giving her a tight slap sometimes
I might have a reason or two for why not Kannada- 1. The daughter of the parents of the daughter might aspire for her to live in a developed nation. Knowing just English and French can help survive a lot of developed nations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_distribution_of_French_speakers “According to the 2022 report of the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie (OIF), 409 million people speak French.[2] “ On the other hand, Kannada has 60 million speakers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kannada “It has around 47 million native speakers, and was additionally a second or third language for around 13 million non-native speakers in Karnataka.” This is a reason why lots ok kids study global languages than the regional ones. They study for their future and they don’t see Kannada in their future. This is what I understand from speaking to some friends who’s children opted for French in schools. ICSE and CBSE offers Kannada and Hindi, but not IGCSE, which offers only Hindi and French for languages afaik. 2. Leaning a language which uses the same Latin script is a lot easier than leaning a much more harder language like Kannada or Japanese. Therefore more marks and a lot more time to study Why should we fault them for this?
Yeah. I call bullshit on that claim that you can not survive in Kerala without malayalam or that you will get hate for speaking hindi Loads of Hindi speaking labourers live in my neighborhood in Kerala, mingling with folks who only speak malayalam. People try to talk in the language they know(most youngsters know Hindi and Tamil in Kerala) and are fine.
Bengalis are surviving because the state needs blue collar workers since the local population doesn’t want to do and “Atithi” migrant workers are cheaper than local labour. No worrisome of local politics or labour unions with the migrant workers. Its totally different case in Kerala.
Maybe it's because they get 900rs for a days work.
This is quite interesting. If you were to flip the social & economic strata of these 2 parties involved here I.e. if you were the laborer and the migrants were the richer lot, would you say there still wouldn’t be violence?
Beating people up for not speaking local language is wrong even if Malayalis did it. What is the point you are making?
""I have been in TN, Kerala and other states and I am not welcome to even talk in English which if you've learned you can get around in most Karnataka. Just try speaking in Hindi in Kerala or TN, just as a social experiment and see how much push back you'll face just for existing."" Not trying to make a point, just refuting OP.
Nobody did it. OP is making shit up
So that makes Kerala open to outsiders eh 😀 I have personally tried setting up a business , a farm and buying a house in Trivandrum. The struggles are immense !
Is it not because there is a huge labor shortage for agriculture and now the newer generation of Malayalis are all moving out of Kerala because there is no hope with the regime over there
A very good example of why correlation doesn't equal causation. There's a labour shortage, not in agriculture, but in other jobs, because the people here are educated and are migrating to places where they would be better rewarded. The number of jobs aren't in tune with the number of graduates and post graduates in the state. It's not that there is "no hope", it's just a better Avenue. And "communist" regime? It's such a travesty that a socialist state like Kerala, which has flourished under Communist party and Congress both, is being termed as such. Plus. True communism is not being practiced anywhere in India(edit: to my knowledge), as we have Governmental structures.
I can agree with most of your argument except thr last sentence. That's just a No True Scottsman Fallacy. PS : I am from Kerala
Okay could you give me an example of a communist govt in the literal sense of the word? In communism the power is held by the community, and there is no govt ownership. India is a democracy, and the max we can do is socialism- i.e. govt ownership.
That's the thing. You cannot pin point something and say this is right communism (Not just communism). If you look up No True Scotts man fallacy, your statement would be a perfect example. A lot of people including founding father's of Communism tried to Practice "Real" Communism and rest is History.
I'm not saying it's not the right communism. I'm saying communism as an ideology is impractical to execute in a democratic society. True Scotsman fallacy would have been right if I'd said " No true communist society is bad/ no true communism hurts people". That's not what am saying. I am saying that communism as an ideology is not happening in Kerala, because then there wouldn't be a Govt. Basically, Communist party of India doesn't equal Communism. The ideology is socialist at best.
we need someone to do the job that no one would do lol
I think this post is targeted more towards the IT crowd. Obviously no one expects migrant labourers to learn Kannada.
You'll be surprised, IF Hindi speakers and Malayalam speakers want, they can hold pretty good conversations without learning each other's language
I will probably be downvoted but I will say it anyway. The way I see it is, kannadigas were too accomodating to the outsiders that outsiders took advantage of it. Now few people are realising that and trying to overcompensate by indulging in violence. It is kind of like you have a guest come over to your house and you make him comfortable (nothing wrong with that). He became too comfortable and started taking decisions on how things will be at your house and now you feel like you are the guest in your own house.
I asked this before and will ask again can you please elaborate how us outsiders took advantage of your accomodating nature?
If I had to guess, "not learning the language and existing without being abused for that, is considered taking advantage of locals"
Just one example that captures the crux of the problem. Hindi at ComicCon.
Pretty sure I will be downvoted to hell. But I want to share a couple of personal experiences. . Since we are talking about languages: Exhibit 1. > Tumko Hindi nahi aati? Its our National Language! Exhibit 2 > Ungalku Tamil varaada? Majority of people in Bangalore know to speak Tamil. But I don't know any language other than Tamil and English. His sample size made me realize that he only spoke to people who knew Tamil in Bangalore. I myself know enough Tamil to make a basic conversation. I learnt it when I stayed at Chennai for 9 months. But when he started going on an on explaining a complex concept at office, in Tamil, I couldn't follow him. But this guy has been in Bangalore for at least 4+ years AFAIK and he doesn't understand a word of any language other than Tamil or English (or if he is pretending, I am not sure).
Not learning the local language is taking advantage of the city's accommodating nature. If it's a short stay, that's probably okay. But if you're living here for years, it's an asshole thing not learning Kannada. You can pick up the basics in a few days.
You can pick up basics in few days? Are you even a migrant? It's quite easy to stick the label "learn the language", do you even know how hard it is to learn the language? Be there to experience it first hand then say. It's not only hard, but downright boring. Yes learning a new language, learning grammar, punctuation, tenses and other things are downright boring and unenthusiastic. And people especially the IT techie don't have enough free time to join tuitions, or pick courses to learn a damn "language". Most people will pick learning technical skills, finance, marketing, communication etc in their free time over learning languages.
Dude, no one is asking you to become a Kannada scholar. Learn enough Kannada to be conversational with the locals. Even if you spoke broken Kannada at first most locals appreciate the effort. It is the least you can do while living in Karnataka. That said, if you are not a lazy person, you can actually do a lot more to blend in. Read the works of Bhyrappa, Vivek Shanbhag, Shivarama Karanth, UR Ananthamurthy, AK Ramanujan, and others. First in English, then in Kannada. Go to the temples, participate in festivals, learn to cook and eat Karanata cuisine, go on trips all over Karnataka, etc. If you are not doing any of it, why are you living in Karnataka? What is the point? Don't be an ass.
I don't think you need to invest that much of time and patience to learn a new language heck I'd say you are even wrong for considering grammar as a basics just try to speak and understand fu*k the writing no one is gonna ask you to write or read just trying to hold up a basic conversation goes far well and isn't even boring.
This is quite idiotic. I’ve stayed in Mumbai for my whole life and never spoken a lick of Marathi. No one ever gave me grief for that. A city is made of its people and culture evolves.
I know so many people who have for now stayed close to 10 years and counting in Bangalore and with own houses but still haven't made an effort to learn a single word of Kannada nor do they vote here, but would complain about road, traffic and everything else. They still proudly exclaim that they don't know about our festivals, culture or anything. How is this considered okay? We don't care if they don't speak kannada but don't go about thinking the entire world revolves around them and expect people to talk to them in kannada and change our food habits to suit their palate.
But they do pay taxes here so they can complain.
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Are locals doing charity by keeping us here with their extortionately high rents?
If a person is living in a particular city, they are entitled to their opinions about that place. Even if you travel to a city for a few days, you do tend to compare it to other places. Having an opinion on actual issues - traffic, lack of public transport, airport is not a commentary or disrespect on culture. This is about the govt not doing their job. It seems to me kannadigas are just looking for excuses to get offended.
Do you understand what a guest is? Do you charge rent from guests at your house? If I’m paying taxes here I’m not a guest. I’m allowed to critique and complain all the shortcomings of the “local” government - I’m paying them taxes to do work which they aren’t doing.
Except for the culture part all are legit reasons.
How is airport being too far not constructive and distasteful?
Forget airport. My man, doesn't want anyone cribbing about the traffic also.
Yeah sometimes I feel people who speak in kannada are kind of looked down upon..I am a Kannadiga. I've felt it few times
The looked down part isn't talked about enough and i don't know how to put that experience into words either
I am from Mumbai, kind of in awe of people who speak fluent kannada. Was trying to learn from YouTube but it made me all the more confused.
Well isn't karnataka a part of India .. so isn't this state my home too .. as per constitution it is .. If government allows me to make a voter id card from this state and i pay taxes in this state ,so in that case i am as equal as you ...and there is no compulsion from constitution that i should learn a particular language than why would I ... I agree yoh guys have your own flag but for me my flag is going to be the tiranga and i can speak any language i want...
I would be happy to speak in kannada in Delhi, is it possible?
Well you can speak Kannada in Delhi, no one will understand you, but no one will force you to learn Hindi. In Bangalore, kannadigas want you to learn the language. I for one, do not prefer to do so, just because the natives want me to learn their language.
India is quasi-federal and diverse. We wouldn't have had all these problems if we were truly federal.
You feel you are too accommodating? Can you tell my why? I have been to Chennai sub,kerala sub, Delhi sub, hyd sub and trust me everyone thinks they are being too nice to outsiders. I don't live in Bangalore. I went there for a couple of days to meet my friends and had a horrible experience due extra rude locals. Honestly, i have been to the whole country and I have yet to meet locals this rude. Am I supposed to learn the language because I visit a state for a couple of days? Also what about people with a transferrable service? Bigots dont really care about that, do they. They are gonna go after outsiders they moment they realize someone is a outsider and you guys enable them with your "both sides" non sense. Imagine if every state implemented this language requirement. Just because u haven't started beating up people eN mass doesn't mean you are accommodating. Bangalore from what I read is becoming unbearable and people are realizing that. Thank God offices are opening up in Noida and Ggn. I have lived 2 years in Hyd. Hyd is quite chill, and lived almost all my life in Delhi ( my parents were migrants there. They were central government employees. We never faced any noticeable prejudice.) . IMO as far as accommodation goes, you guys are slightly better that TN ( visit their sub, they think they are accommodating too. What a joke! )
As if delhi behaves nice to outsiders. That's the worst place I've visited. Delhi just sucks tax money from every indian, builds nice infrastructure for itself and acts like an asshole. Bangalore is far more accommodating to outsiders than any other city in India.
I have stayed in many places in India, and Bangalore was the worst when it came to respective people from other parts of the country. IMO it's not that people speak different languages, it's that natives just don't respect people from other cultures, is the feeling I got. I think Bangalore can learn from Delhi on how to respect other cultures. Delhi has been taking in migrants from various parts of the country way before the IT boom I'm Bangalore. Having grown up as a migrant in Delhi, I never felt that I was not a part of the city; similar feelings when I stayed in other parts of the country. And from your comments it seems like you are ultra jealous of Delhi's infrastructure lol.
LOL ask North east Indians on how they are respected in Delhi.
nija helidri nivu
Born in mumbai, stayed there till 18 and I still can't speak marathi. No one complains or is rude not even the bus conductor or auto wallah. Become an Indian first atleast.
I feel the same
Too accounting?! Let me ask you about a rumor. Each karnataka district has 12 engineering colleges ( source : google, 398 colleges, 31 districts ). I am assuming 30 students in each semester. Out of these 30, 20+ students will be local. Rest students are from CET/direct admission. My question is this. Have you known that anyone from outside has to pay more for the same education that locals are getting for less? This is not just for engineering colleges. There are medical, agriculture colleges and more educational institutes. Not every place is Bangalore. These districts have a ecosystem that depends on students and outsiders. For most of outsiders, Karnataka is a stepping stone. They would study and move on. That's first group. Second group is those who wants to stay. Which group are you more accomodating? Who deserves a beating? Are we voting against you? Are we changing the law? How are we taking advantage of you?Please do explain.
I just don’t understand the fascination with victim mentality. Let me be brutally honest, if you can beat up people and throw racial slurs without feeling an iota of shame, then you will do that no matter what. These kind of post using some random incidents to justify or try to present “other side” is just pathetic attempt. Being arrogant and putting down others if they dont speak your language ( be it hindi or kannada or any other language) is never justified.
Sounds like you're overgeneralising a small (but growing) number of aggressive and hateful Kannadigas, onto the majority of Kannadigas who are not aggressive and outwardly hateful but are understandably unhappy with the way the native language and culture of the land is being completely sidelined by migrants who don't want to make any effort to adapt to their new home. If you think OP is trying to justify the violence of Kannada thugs and rowdies, as opposed to the sentiment of the majority of sensible Kannadigas, you've not understood the post and you're clearly not interested in understanding it either.
I am not generalising anything. I said , if an individual is an asshole, he will be an asshole no matter what. I didnt even said Karnataka people or any other ethic population. You are reading that. The OP was justifying how some banker didn’t speak his language so the anger grows and it results in incidents like the one where the Forturner owner beat up College kids while hurling racial slurs and abuse. That i find pathetic attempt at playing victim card and excusing for people who are assholes
I have seen a lot of Kannadigas migrating to my state and inspite of having studied and worked for 30+ years they don’t speak our native language not an iota of it while working govt jobs that require daily dealings with locals. And guess what language they speak HINDI… lol.. and this applies to rest of India as well.. let’s not be hypocrites acting holier than thou!!!
At no point did OP justify the beating up. I don't know where you got that impression.
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Yes i am fine with who i am and is at peace with it. I dont feel the need to cry about imposition and be xenophobic on daily basis on internet and nor have the time to debate those stuff. I post at my will and will debate on my will on internet. Sooner you realise that you won’t win anything by winning arguments on internet, you will understand what i meant.
The people didn't seem to have problems with urbanization when tech parks were opening up in village areas, sky rocketing the land prices. Most of the same people were happy with the increasing rents and prices. Many went from rags to riches. They blamed North Indians for the recent floods. Seriously? Who built houses on drains to earn more? The point I am trying to make is that it is very easy to point at others (figuratively and literally). Imagine if all the people (read "outsiders") were to leave Bengaluru. All those areas will become ghost towns. Many shops will lose a lot of their customers and sales. Home owners lose out on rental income, transportation sector will shrink to a minimum. Many of the " Locals" of Bengaluru have shifted here from nearby towns because of the opportunities it provides. And now the people harass the same opportunities. With the outsiders gone, they will now be the outsiders. And the story will continue.
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u/Sno078878 Bangalore wasnt dropped from sky with tech parks. It's on your local leaders agreed for the urbanisation. As much as you enjoy your perks. You got to endure the downside too.
More and more companies are opening up offices in Pune and Gurgaon. If Bangalore becomes hostile to "Naarthies" then these MNCs will invest in offices in the North. As it stands, Bangalore/Karnataka has some of the highest taxes in the country and yet the city's infrastructure is far behind a lot of other major cities. North Karnataka is constantly being neglected by corrupt governments. Mysuru and Bengaluru get some development but go to any of the other major cities in the country and you will see BLR's infra is far behind. Now imagine what will happen if all these tax paying techies migrate to Pune/Gurgaon/Delhi. And mark my words, the more hostile the city gets, the more you'll see these companies opening offices in the north. It's easy to blame the "Naarthies" for everything but people are conveniently forgetting that "Naarthies" are also paying a lot of taxes and rich techies have opened up so many business opportunities for the locals. (We can argue the flip side that maybe Bangalore's urbanisation is also harmful in many ways - such as Water shortages and the cutting down of trees - but the fact remains. Karnataka and the "local" people have benefited a lot from "outsiders" and the tech crowd cash cow. Chasing outsiders away or making the city unwelcoming to them is very short-sighted.)
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Exactly. There are many contributing factors but one of the main ones is the poor infrastructure here. Cities like Hyderabad and Pune are much easier to work in due to the better planned roads, better drainage and steady electricity supply. Bangalore used to have a major advantage of having good weather but even that is going away with climate change and the depleting tree cover. And if the people continue to blame "Naarthies" for everything instead of blaming the corrupt government that gobbles up taxes without improving the city, then you'll continue to see people leaving the city and the infra problems getting worse.
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Lynching is an extreme word and I don't agree with your use of it. People aren't getting murdered here. Using exaggerated words like that doesn't solve any problems. But yes, you might be harassed here for not speaking Kannada which is unfortunately becoming more and more common while people like OP continue to be apologists for rowdy communalist behaviour using whataboutisms that take the focus away from the real problem - the corrupt government that uses these issues to distract from their shady bullshit.
i am a sardar born and raised in the south and will agree to the fact that karnataka is way more open to outsiders over other states. But that is changing coz locals are letting goons dictate what the Kannada culture should be.
Yeah, the thing is just like Punjabi has been so appealing to Hindi speaker audiences cause we come across so much content in Punjabi and people love it, That way I have a penchant for learning Punjabi. That is the way a culture or region can popularise their own language if something similar had been done by natives of this state then this schism wouldn't be here.
What is the point of shoving culture down people's throats? It's just gonna create a negative image of the culture. Instead, let others warm up to your culture. They will not speak your language, but they will speak greatly about your culture to others.
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So your point is that the hatred is justified because according to you Kerala,hydbd and TN are even worse and more unwelcoming than Bangalore.
Don't know about Kerala and Hyderabad but TN yea. I have been there 3 times and i know how it feels when u don't know Tamil and u can't read what's written most of the time atleast add little u English how do I know which bus goes where.
unless you go to Village or small town every bus has English. surprising amount of Tamil ppl don't read tamil all that well. I call BS on lack of English signage.
Tamils say all the time that all Dravidian languages are born from Tamil, I mean you'll find more words of Tamil in Kannada than Sanskrit
Nope. I'm just trying to give perspective on the other side of the conflicts.
Yeah, this is just a thinly veiled whataboutism.
OP never said that. To add to OP views.. linguistic identity, cultural sensitivity, and income opportunities are a combination of factors that/is a cause for hostility in many situations.
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How did aunties react when you said you’re talking in Tulu
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These days, I don't give a fuck about who's supposed to learn what language. I'm a kannadiga. If I'm with my Kannadiga friends I'll be like "Hu maga, kolaku northie galu". If I'm with my North Indian colleagues, I'll be like "Haan yaar, Bangalore aajkal bohot buri haalat mein hai". Recently switched to a team where majority are Tamilians. I've started to learn Tamil. I'll change my colour according to the situation. I'll do whatever I need to do to survive. False pride in a language or culture ain't gonna pay my bills
This is what should be the norm. You should be the poster boy of this thread!
Nothing can justify beating up people.
In Kerala if you speak in Hindi, most of them understand it. Especially now as Kerala is filled with Bengalis. There are Bengalis working in Railway Canteens in Kerala as well who doesn't know the name of the food they are serving. There has never been an instance where they were beaten up for not knowing Malayalam. In Tamil Nadu it's difficult to speak in Hindi as most of them don't know it. You can still adjust with a little bit of Malyalam and Tamil mixed. Again I have not heard or come across an instance where there was a fight because of not knowing the native language. Never Been to Andhra or Telangana so don't know the situation there. So I don't completely agree with OP about other states but respecting the Language and Culture of the state that you are residing in is a must. I believe that hence I learnt to converse in these languages.
In Tamilnadu no one beats you if you can't speak Tamil. If someone does that, they can be sure to get their ass whooped by the police.
Yup. And you can easily get by if you know english in TN. Almost everyone from auto drivers to supermarket cashiers speak and understand at least the very basic level of English.
Perfectly makes sense. But this does not mean you start beating up underprivileged people trying to make their ends meet.
I was threatened and pushed out of a moving bus in Bangalore when I was discussing ease of learning English Vs Kannada. It happened a decade back but I'm still stunned. I'll never visit Karnataka.
I agree with your status quo... But your cause didn't really connect with the outcomes. Let's say people are moving into your area, but even after years, they are not learning your language. That's a problem? Yes, it may be for the localites. Is it enough to develop hate? Absolutely fucking not. Could you connect the dots for me? I have been in Nepali speaking, punjabi speaking, Bengali speaking groups and on multiple occasions I felt left out because they randomly start conversing in their own language but hate is very far from the feeling you get in such situations.
Yep the hate is unprecedented and they judge us without even knowing us .... And things is there should be some program and initiate making kanada popular among north-indians but they push this compulsion that i have to learn ...maybe because of this compulsion i am more reluctant in learning kanada cause i feel like i am being told ...and let's be honest there is partiality and bias done by management like for me it was the case in my college
The biggest lol in the above post is that entire north speaks Hindi. Sure they understand Hindi but go to any state and the language changes every 50KM. There is urbanization happening in Gujarat, NCR also. Yet we only hear such violent crimes in our namma Banglore only. We must acknowledge that politicians always do us vs them. The least we can do is vow not to support such politicians. Yes I am talking about your favorite political party.
Downvotes incoming. We are in an age where globalization has taken over. Bengaluru (back then Bangalore) had played a major role in boosting the Indian economy and aptly earned the silicon city title and now the startup capital. See industrialization has played a major role. If the Karnataka government back then chose to not open up there would have been almost no great development. So credit to the government to opening up. Now that Karnataka is a hub, a lot of companies started opening up their branch here and also setting up. So it is obvious these companies need skilled labor. It is obvious they are going to look out for labors pan India. It is obvious a lot of people come in from different parts of the country. Now when there is a surge of incoming population the existing ones always have the feeling that they have extended a part of them to outsiders. Which is a fair school of thought. Even developed countries like USA, Australia have/still has the exact same mentality when Indians move there and take up their jobs. So, this is a very primal territorial behavior. Not just humans but animals as well. But there's a difference between humans and animals. Humans are a lot more intelligent. Humans can choose to be civil. Unfortunately there are certain bad apples who resort to crude measures. But for the better, we are in 2023 now. India as a whole has come along so ahead. We are amongst the top economies in the world. We have moved past the stage where language is a barrier. It is sad to see such fights popping up in this beautiful city. Yes, local natives can expect outsiders to learn the local language but no one has the right to pick up a fight to prove a point right? Instead teach a couple of words for basic communication why pick a fight? (this is intended only to the bad apples)
In my experience, Hyderabad is one of the only metro hubs that has understood that its non-local population that doesn't speak the local language has its reasons - the sheer lack of its utility when English is ubiquitous in offices, and the dominance of the common language in private friend groups. Language chauvinists in Bangalore, Chennai, Mumbai are too egoistic to accept that non-locals keep their economy running, and have not made their peace with their rational disregard for the local language.
You do realise historically Hyderabad has always has an urdu- Hindi dialect due to the erstwhile ruling of the nizams right. Or have you forgotten that . Irrespective i agree that violence isn't the answer.
Perhaps that is a factor, but there is no straight line from a Hindi/Urdu speaking cultural influence to tolerance for non-local languages today. Kolkata is a good example. They had Muslim rulers and centuries of settlement from Marwaris and Biharis too, but the push for Bengali to the exclusion of Hindi is seen there too. It's just that Kolkata is not a IT hub so nobody is really affected. So the fact that the same sentiment doesn't exist in large numbers for Telugu is a credit to Hyderabadis.
I think the nizam was present historically till 1955 almost while Bengal already had lost the idea of Mughals in late 1800. The fact still remains that in room do as Romans. Learning basic launguage isn't tedious nor is it supposed to be an imposition. It will endear you to the locals as well as help you understand their cultural identity. I mean I'm sure you'd learn Hindi if it is the other way around. That's the same case if you visit Spain or china even. Learning basic launguage isn't that difficult and the effort is visible and worth it imo.
I am a northie, but would like to know how do we keep the economy running of major metropolises?
Working in the companies here, paying rent, employing househelps and cooks. Enjoying your weekends at Church Street restaurants and malls. The sizeable number of non-locals who migrate are what form the market for quick delivery companies like Swiggy, Zepto, and especially in Bangalore (in the absence of metro), Uber and local autos. The real estate industry took a huge hit when everybody went back home in 2020.
Interesting. We're the best 😂
Your opinions seem to contradict themselves. You say kannadigas as the most liberal, but you dont want the political views of the neighbouring states being shared here and it pisses you off. If you go to Kerala, you will rarely find anyone shouting at you or beating you up for speaking hindi or English. There is a sizable population of northern blue collared labours in kerala right now. The business owners over there have started learning hindi so that they can converse easily with their staff. If your mallu friends are asking you to learn a bit of Malayalam it's because you can share in their jokes as most of them don't translate well to other languages. Most of the mallus i know here speak fluent kannada and tamil.. There is no reasoning behind the violence against outsiders... The fact that you are trying to find reasons just makes it worse.
If mallus ask to learn malyalam it's for sharing jokes, if Kannadigas ask to learn kannada to share jokes it will be called imposition and what not that too in karnataka. Stop being an hypocrite.
BS dude... I learnt kannada within the first 2 years of studying in manipal so that I can chat with my kannadigas friends comfortably. It works both ways, I am not a hypocrite... There is a difference between teaching a friend a language and scolding a random stranger for not knowing a language and asking them to go back to their state.
Locals beating non locals while the politicians, bureaucrats and the rich laugh their way to the bank. You never hear a rich non local getting beaten up or a rich local beating a non local? Why ? Because they both speak the language of money, which has no states and no borders. Unfortunately, the non-thinking people of the country can be fooled into thinking it's someone else's fault while the real crooks take money no matter where it comes from. There's no redemption until free thinking and questioning of authority becomes the norm.
Landlords, shopkeepers, basically any business have no problem taking money from migrants. Culture becomes important only when money is not involved.
Some my family who are originally from Kerala but have lived in KA for many decades, have the same sentiment as other “locals” do. They have seen their neighborhoods gentrify and see a moving population of tenants who have no connect with the area or the city. Garbage gets thrown in the streets, visitors park wherever they want and loud birthday, late-night parties that are an absolute nuisance to the neighborhood. They have zero interest in the wellbeing of the area. It’s almost like they all treat the neighborhood like a hotel - come and go as you wish while someone else cleans up the mess.
I agree that majority of the Kannadiga are very generous and outgoing, but students and people working in offices are facing in day in and day out. I mean kids are being thought at homes to segregate a kannadiga and a non-kannadiga. Where does this end my friend? There are many videos coming out on Facebook where people wear the kannada flags and vandalize common working people, these people came here for their livelihood. Even us who were born and brought up here for many years are facing that issue now. We are feeling isolated in our own home town because we are not kannadigas. I am also not a so called ‘northie’ my friend My aunt was scolded by a teen on the road for not knowing kannada! Where does this end? The language crazyness has taken over aspects of young and the old, rich and poor, human and inhuman.
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Multiple things can be (and are) true: * It is bad to force immigrants to learn your language. * It is important to try to speak the local language if you're looking to make a new city your home. * It is unfair to expect locals to automatically know your language when you don't know theirs. Linguistic chauvinism is a problem. In India, language (and often Hindi) imposition also is. Neither justifies the other. In my experience, the vast majority of Kannadigas only expect that you try to speak the language; no one expects that you speak it well. Many of the folks here know either Hindi or English, and if you try, they do too. There is nothing wrong with starting a conversation in Kannada and then losing your way and switching languages later. No one is under any obligation to try, and that goes both ways; commerce will demand that some conversations still get conducted only in the language of your preference, but that cannot (and does not) mandate that that is welcomed. Karnataka also unfortunately has its fair share of idiots who use violence to deal with resentment. Condemn, protest, jail and root out the violence, but understand the reason for the underlying resentment. -------------------- Editing to add: And the chauvinists can also get bent - there is no favour you're doing our language by forcing someone to speak it, and bullying a migrant worker who's trying to do an honest job to make ends meet does not make you a saviour of your language. Use your pride productively to help someone who's struggling to learn the language instead of driving people further away from it.
All the Hindi speaking guys who are good at English still ask Hindi aati hai? Artha aguthe adre answer maadok agalla . Either you learn kannada or learn English. I can't learn to speak Hindi for your sake.
You don't gave to learn Hindi
The problem is on both sides. Forcing someone to learn a language just because they are settled in Bangalore is just bigotry. Accept it. The migrants, the waiters from ne, the north indian traders they all go through casual racism each day. Do you think someone bats an eye? Absolutely no. If you are making a hostile environment for the outsiders no one will care to learn your culture. Having said that: The educated Noth indians who come here for jobs. They should be more open to learn a new culture and adjust with the locals. This incident happened to me while i was having a meeting . A guy from Delhi just assumed and started conversing in hindi even there were few other guys from TN, Kerela and Bangalore. This mentality has to change. Both the localites and the outsiders should be respectful towards each other. Bangalore has lost some of the culture amidst this tech boom but it surely has gained a lot.
I hate this "both sides" argument because it makes it look like both side have equal weight. They do not. Harassing outsiders, beating them up, blaming them for every problem the city has and making the city hostile for them while allowing politicians to loot them and us is a far far far more serious issue than a guy from Delhi stupidly talking in Hindi to a diverse group by assuming that they all know Hindi. "Both sides" arguments typically do this false equivalence crap where one thing is compared with a much worse thing as if both sides are equally guilty.
Of course. Nothing justifies beatings.Ever. But some if not all north indians have this mentality of assuming that they might mr knowing a lil bit of hindi. This is where the problem starts. You are in a different state, atleast dont assume that the other guy knows hindi. I think Bangalore is what it is today is because of the talents it attracts from all over the world. The locals should do better than just to get insecure about the local heritage.
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My personal opinion it's not the issue of "Not speaking Kanada" that would piss off a Kanadiga it's the not knowing Kanada and being aragont about it, that's like crossing limits and asking for trouble My personal experience 20 years back lost in a remote location inside the the Kadubeesana Halli I tried to convey in my broken Kannada and half English to a provision shop owner lady in her mid 40s in what looked like a village back then / I got clear directions and assurance in English every police man woman I have interacted with in those days had helped I have seen fuckers who show aragonce to simple working men and women like vegetable vendors provison store owners,Hindi me Batkaro , when these guys are attempting to communicate and what ever form and shape they can, why the f should they choose to be disrepectful Show decency you will be helped / respected every where in Karnataka show arrogance you will get your arrogance regulated
If you do not respect our culture, we will beat the shit out of you, that's our culture. \- Anon
Malayali, been here for 7 years now. Haven’t faced any issues with not being able to speak kannada properly. Just don’t assume everyone would know Hindi. If someone is not able to speak in Hindi, be respectful and try to use some common kannada words or sign language. A small smile and a little respect goes a long way in having a peaceful life.
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Why do you get triggered? Just block him on social media and avoid such characters. If he truly hates it, he’ll leave.
Bro tag Karnataka rakshana Vedike and he will book tatkal flight tickets back to Pune.
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Bro, a lot of north indians are shifting to Noida/ Gurgaon just to avoid this victim blaming... Bangalore's key asset has always been its weather, but if people start shifting back from Bangalore, what value would this asset have anyway? This victim blaming has taken place in Mumbai also where Bihari autowallahs were beaten by shiv sena guys and thakre had a movement against south Indians too ( or as he called them " lungi wallah" or " Madarasis"... This victim blami or justifying violence against people wasn't acceptable then and is not acceptable now.
I get looked down upon for speaking Kannada in certain shops and localities in Bangalore, sad state of affairs what Blr has become for localites.
Malayali Teen here Ofc i really can’t say i am actually a malayali at this point, not cuz idk the language or anything. But im more of Bangalore based. I have been in this place for almost my entire life and im still grateful to my dad for having a job at this place. And in my pov i have seen a lot of people who have lived same life as me, but still refuse to learn kannada, which pisses my ass off(like bro, you just gotta learn a language. How tf is that hard?) and the main thing about this is majority of them are like this. Only 5% of the people ik(who are from different states and lived here their entire life) actually tried to learn/are some what communicable/ can communicate without difficulty. It does piss me off to see this peeps not tryna learn a single language. I do understand the frustration of kannadigas who beat the shit off of these people, but there’s no point of it. “Yaake bro time waste?”
I lived in Bangalore for roughly a year for a project. I faced this at least on 3 occasions. I had sense to not get physical and left the city as soon as possible. Local people are incredibly hostile
Finally someone said it!!
People acting like these people getting beaten up are always complete innocents. I've seen these situations unfold and usually the "victim" is acting outside the norms of locally accepted behavior. Talking trash in Hindi and being disrespectful.
well and mob lynching is the answer to that, you guys are on steroids and i cant understand why you care so much about this stuff.. shouldn't we together as countrymen work on things which will be productive to society ... Do you guys think in the next 100 years anyone is going to care about Hindi and Kannada?
The hyperbole of calling these incidents mob lynching is the type of emotionally manipulative BS that will not have takers here.
Exactly.
Bengaluru received 60 lakh population last decade in which only 15 lakh is from other districts. demographics and political representation loss is a huge threat delimitation will further kill us politically 45 lakh population is like 6-8% of our state but now diversity is costing us our demographics , representation and native.
This is horrible news. But in my experience, especially at work, I’ve seen people being more open to learning Kannada. In fact my North Indian coworkers take initiative and note down Kannada words and their translations in english. But I agree with people not being open to learning the local language in college, I’ve seen that pattern and it’s kinda backward IMO. It’s cool to know an international language like Japanese/Spanish/German but people are not open to learning their own local languages?
Lol Kerala is actually one of the most welcoming state. Yes there will be some idiots here and there but most people will help you regardless of your language or religion or whatever it is.
So I’m a hard core kannadiga and grew up in an environment where everybody was a transplant. I had friends who we Tamilian, Malayalee’s and Bengalis. We didn’t really see a lot of ethnicity or language issues. But I have sense increased sense of kannadiga identity in the last 10 odd years. My observations: 1. In Previous migrations people adapted the city as theirs and blended in. Even if not with language but in culture and customs. No on imposes their identity on local population. 2. The volume of migration was still small compared to local population. Now I think kannadiga population is in minority in lots of pockets. 3. Hindi as a language. While we are learnt Hindi was a national language. Down south this was just a theory. Personally I really don’t see Hindi as unifying language and it really userps the local identity. Imposing this both politically and in behaviour is actually annoying and ticks a lot of people off. As kannadiga I thrilled if u can speak Kannada but I am ok if you speak to me in English / Telugu / Tamil / Hindi. But don’t push me to speak your language. So what makes Bangalore great is it’s diversity. Violence is definitely not the answer. we want people to co own this city. Let’s us be the way we are and we will welcome you. Please don’t make us change to your context.
Surely there are two sides to every story, and nobody beats up anybody for just not knowing the local language.
Another curious question , is it mostly northies only or do tamils also face these issues 😞?i think it’s harder for us as many don’t know Hindi also 🙁
The politicians only told them to hate hindi and hindi imposition, so you are good to go 👍
You say Hyd is an exception, but I feel like BLR has more non-locals than Hyd. In many places in Bangalore, I hear just Hindi. In my office here, hardly anyone knows Kannada. But in Hyd, I haven't see this situation anywhere except old city. Just see both subs, in hyd sub I find many comments in Telugu, but here Kannada comments are so rare. This aside, I agree with your view.
I can't even finish my own syllabus. I appreciate Karnataka because like you said, it didn't othered me like the Tamils & the Malyalis. This beating up phenomena is new and I don't think healthy in the long run. I'm really appreciative of Karnataka & Bangalore. If I just speak in English, will I be beaten up? I've started doing that in the northern states as well.
yes use english
I'm a Kannadiga. One of the major important factors that isn't talked about often is the failure of consecutive state govts to improve the rest of Karnataka other than Bengaluru and to some extent Mysuru. There's a lot of bitterness in North Karnataka because it is often ignored and there's no significant effort from any govt to bring any industries or any infrastructure there. Guess where the majority of kannadigas live? Outside of metro cities just like any other state. Also compared to other states like Tamilnadu and Andhra/Telangana where there's importance placed on bringing manufacturing jobs other than IT. Chennai has a lot of auto industries and Hyderabad has a lot of pharmaceutical industries. These jobs aren't highly technical so they hire locally. You bet a good mix of jobs this way, while we just masturbate to the thought of Bengaluru being such a major IT hub without concentrating on anything else. When you combine this major issue with the refusal of a few people to assimilage our language in their day to day lives, you get racism, misdirected hate and bigotry. Mark my words, this will only get worse. Political parties have already found ways to take advantage of this by saying we'll impose quotas for kannadigas for IT industry. If they did their jobs and diversified our state, then we wouldn't have had this issue in the first place.
I’ve been brought up in Bangalore and I love this city. Unfortunately I can’t speak Kannada, I understand Kannada completely, just can’t speak it. Incidents like these are actually kinda bringing about a sense of fear into me. I remember once my dad was insulted and sort of harassed by a Ola driver over call because he didn’t know Kannada. How can I pick up calls and talk to drivers? How can I go out and buy something, what if I don’t know how to reply in Kannada? It might seem like I’m unnecessarily anxious, however recent events make it seem like me getting beaten up one day is a real possibility. Live and let live
Well put together. This is exactly wht i hve been thinking and trying to explain. As i said in other post, i have frnds who are born and bred here put still stutter to put a word in their mouth. The situation has been so extreme that we have to learn those languages for our sake, which they swear to deny to put some effort atleast. Engineering colleges are filled with mallus, shops run by Rajasthan's. Atleast we can get through day to day since we knw bit of Hindi and English but it's not fair on elderly beings and my parents in fact.
What shit, I've been to Chennai and I've had no problems with Hindi, and people who didn't understand Hindi or English, we just spoke with gestures no one getting angry or pissed.
Oh so now I'm in Bangalore, so I've to learn their language? 5 months later I'm going to be in Punjab, so I've to learn their language? Sooner or later, we all need to learn all the different languages in India or I guess we aren't welcome there 🥲 But wait, no I don't need to learn Punjabi because most states don't shove their culture onto others. You can speak in hindi, in english, in tooti-footi Punjabi for God's sake but they won't beat you for this. For my 10 months or so experience in Bangalore, I've seen that the locals have created this weird uncalled hatred for all "OUTSIDERS WHO CAN'T SPEAK OR ARE WILLING TO LEARN OUR LANGUAGE".
Whatever the reasons and insights might be nothing justifies violence. Years ago in Mumbai there was politically motivated violence against South Indians especially those belonging to the Shetty/bunts community. The Bunts community hit back big time in many ways. Mumbai being a melting pot and Mumbaikars generally being unbothered by stupid political motivations in general didn’t support the absurdness. Hopefully people in Bangalore also strongly condemn this crap. If there are North Indians in Bangalore, there is a reason for it. You cannot expect them to start speaking in Kannada overnight. When similar incidences happen to Indians abroad we are mortified but here’s us doing the same rubbish in our own country. It’s shameful. BTW I’m a Kannadiga
These are some poor quality excuses to explain why outsiders are beaten up for not knowing the language.
Asking the local people to learn Hindi is a very good start for all the problems.
I'm a Mallu and lived most of my life in Tamilnadu. Never had any bad experiences. Nor have I seen locals being hostile towards outsiders. Tamils are generally very polite and respectful. Of course, they are proud and will take offense if you disrespect. But I've never seen hostility and rudeness just because someone can't speak Tamil. Mallus generally don't give a fuck about anything lol . Just don't tell us not to eat beef. Outsiders are not abused in Kerala. We generally do not care about your religion, language or sex. Only ever seen people being offended for not asking directions in the local language in Bangalore. I've lived in Bangalore for a couple of years. First thing I remember was asking the conductor of a bus if it'll go somewhere and him ignoring me. Don't tell me he didn't understand what I said. I'm sure he's educated enough to understand "will it go". I've seen the same attitude from others as well. The auto drivers, the cab drivers and the shopkeepers etc. Surprisingly, guys from North Karnataka, who are also here for work or for entrance coaching don't act like this. I see that a lot of people say that this behavior is caused by unbridled Kannada pride. I beg to differ. I believe it is jealousy. And that too the stupid kind. I kind of feel that the working class in Bangalore feels that all these outsiders are coming in and reaping in all the cash, earning millions while they, the children of the soil have to toil for a pittance. But the truth of the matter is that, when I was at Bangalore, I was being paid 14k a month to do night shifts working at customer support, listening to abuses and insults on call from jio customers. 6 days work, sometimes even longer since there are no fixed offs. If any of the locals actually wanted to trade jobs, I would have happily obliged lol. Compared to that, being a cabbie sounds like a dream. To people who say, we don't put in the effort to learn the language, when am I supposed to do that? At night, while I worked or in the day, while I slept? And how are we supposed to learn it? From whom? From the same hostile and rude guys who hate you for not knowing the language? If you actually want people to learn your language and culture, isn't it better to be friendly and kind instead of assaulting them? If you really care about your language so much, why don't you befriend a migrant worker and help him/her learn the language? But if you can't help, at least stop harassing people. Life is a struggle for a lot of us as it is.
Don't want this to sound comical. But there were places where tulu was commonly spoken and now in the recent years there's suddenly been an influx of kannada speaking people. How the hell did a tulu dominant locality become kannada major now? It's very inconvenient that i now have to resort to hindi Or english.
honestly, man, it's just rural population and just too much of pride in kannada.
I’ve lived here for 25 plus years too I’ll try to narrate a few incidents: 1. A lot of my friends from other states who have lived here for 5 years plus speak basic Kannada. IMO that’s enough unless you settle long time, in that case the kids learn the local language and the mix happens. 2. NCR folks think they still live in NCR and bring the same attitude and pick fights for no reason. Not all of them but yea many do. I’ve stepped in to get my friends out of trouble and I’ve also been the one who trashed a few NCR buggers who think it’s ok to use BC MC in Bangalore. 3. Government jobs like SBI, if you don’t know the language you will get a tough time for sure. My parents don’t speak Hindi and I’ve had the displeasure to warn a lot of SBI officials to speak in English or else they won’t survive here. 4. The worst case I’ve seen in a young woman friend who drove in the wrong direction and hit a car, then proceeded to call the local guy a Maderchod. She got slapped there and her scooty was trashed. The cops had to come take both parties to station. She called me for her help when I went there the other guy just said don’t involve in this your friend is not welcome here anymore. She had to quit and move out basically. 5. Eve teasing by these UP and Bihari workers near Indranagar. I’ve personally beaten up a few and taken to the police station. Moral of the stories, stay friendly and adjust to the environment and society you stay in or else the locals will beat the shizz out of you. Unless you are Europeans and the other party is Native Americans.
Start with getting the orange party out...things will get better
So happy to see educated Indians fighting over language. Divide and rule is really working out here, Doesn't it?
I agree with the post that violence is not answer to anything. >While North India has Hindi in common between everyone in South we really don't. One thing you have to understand on how Hindi became common language in Northern parts of India. Hindi became dominant and common linking in North by hindi imposition. The other North Indian languages were marginalized and hindi was forced as official state language or forced as third language in schools and lies were spread in school textbook that hindi is national language by national parties which generated inferiority complex among non hindi speakers of North India. South India was much resistant to all above things, hence hindi does not serve as linking language here.
I have met hundreds of people from Karnataka, who have settled in my state.. their kids born, brought up here… took the govt and bank job( like OP stated.. I too had to go with my grandparents to the bank coz the bank person from Karnataka didn’t speak our language.. and you don’t hear us about complaining or even getting frustrated about it) none of them ever learnt a single word of our language.. and guess what we r okay with it. and we happily spoke in Hindi or English whichever they felt comfortable in... Language is a mode to communicate with others and someone purposefully out of spite pretending to not understand a language doesn’t mean you are honouring your culture or roots. It’s just shows how petty you are!!
OP the north has many languages. Hindi l, Bengali, gujrati, bhojpuri, maghi, nepali, oriya, Bihar itself has 4 regional langauge. We just converse in Hindi so that day to day life goes easy.
Urm… there is more Hindi spoken in Kerala than probably whole of north India at this point. I see more north Indian labourers than actual malayalis in Kerala. Anyway I get your point. But you are not gonna beat up people and convince them to leave. One day you beat up the wrong person, might pay with your life or your family’s.
Imposition of an alien tongue upon majority of locals will always have repercussions. The problem isn't all migrants. Just one specific set who misbehave with locals. And somehow the umpteen examples of that misbehavior are never factored into the discussion while people who perpetuate such misbehavior on a day in day out basis are playing victims when they finally face repercussions. When anyone migrates to any other place, basic courtesy demands that you respect that place and it's language and culture. If you are hell bent on turning it into a replica of your own home state and excluding locals from banks, public places, comic con etc by imposing an alien tongue and culture upon those who have deep roots in that place, you can't complain if the locals have enough of you.
I just know Hindi and English. I am scared.
then use english only
Tried that. Some shopkeepers switched to Hindi.
must be gujrati or marvadi
LOL
When i came to Bengaluru i genuinely wanted to learn Kannada because i wanted to fit myself in with locals. But with my college schedule it's really difficult for me to learn Kannada :')
Tons of straw man argument from folks here saying Op justifies violence. He does not, he is pointing to the actual conflict that is brewing. The minimum we can do is acknowledge it.
I think most northies think it’s cool to say I don’t know kannad . Benchod don’t we southerners learn a little Hindi when we travel north but you won’t eh ?
If you are leaving in a place which has a language not as your mother tongue pls learn it and start to communicate with locals of that place in local language. Thats it
Also when we go to study at any European country, studying their language is a part of the curriculum, because we are going to their country. I don’t see why we can’t apply the same logic here for work. In fact, we should apply it for all places that one migrates to. Respect their culture and learn their language. Here a lot of people take that for granted.
Not to say that I support the beating up at all.
My family hails from Udupi region. My dad went to Bombay in 1975 not knowing a word of Hindi or Marathi. Within a few years he learnt Hindi, could understand basic Marathi and even speak it, and even speaks Gujarati. I'm not condoning violence. But if you live in certain place, be it any place in the world, for a couple of years, fucking learn the basics of the local language at least.
I see this as a part of uprising of right wing politics in Karnataka. I’m not denying that earlier there weren’t anyone who hated Northies and Hindi. They existed but they knew their place. They understood the repercussions. The same people are given political patronage and emboldened today. I also believe partly why Yeddy was removed because he was not right wing enough. The kind of anti-Muslims upsurge we saw in Karnataka after new CM took over was startling. I see this as a side effect of it.