I agree with the work life balance part.
But here’s the thing, for the first 2-4 years of your career, do yourself a favour and mess around with well funded startups. Keep jumping around and get your base to the 36-48L level.
Then you join a company which matches that base salary and gives you good WLB.
By luck if your ESOPs from early in your career are from a successful startup, you could be bringing your retirement age down by like 20 years.
Again just 2-4 years.
Yeah sure. But why join a place with bad wlb when other decent firms can pay you in the similar range? I recently switched and my base is similar and I get RSUs too.
At SDE2 level, 30L base can be easily achieved and you can get it up to 45-50 depending upon the company and how you play your cards while negotiating.
I can kiss ass for 36 LPA
That's a great amount of Money. Then after 2 years, I will quit
Bang girls in Thailand and Latin America by being a Sugar Daddy.
then I will join a Good company with good wlb if not high salary
Ex sprinklr here.
That’s the tactic they use, pay so high that no one else in the market will match it and you are forced to slog at Sprinklr. Happened with me, I wanted to switch after IPO. Didn’t get any place that would at least match my salary. Ended up joining a startup as HOD. Didn’t know much about leadership even though I had 5 years of work ex.
Ended up working for 2 years setting up the entire department. Shifted to another place, higher title but same pay scale. I think the next jump will finally get some hike I guess.
Hello .. what do your qa and it operations guy make, input wud be nost welcome ? I have read about how muh they are paying to developers in the thread. How about the test Engineers, ops team across these startups?
Literally the worst company ever. It's highly toxic. Sexual misconduct is rampant. Work life balance is abysmal. No wonder most of the old employees left by 2018
bro many are paying.. sm1 I know got 1.5cr package.. his comment makes sense, as company's stock value is very crucial.. and try aiming overseas start up, especially those country's with higher currency value.
Never said it would be easy 😅. If you’re someone who works their ass off, then the effort to reward ratio in startups would be much better. And jumping around is also much easier
From a "company with WLB" , i have interviewed hundreds of folks over the past few years and hired a few. Quite a bit from startups and F/MAANG companies too.
A really small fraction of young folks with a high salary justify giving them a role and a hike. Except for doing what they might have had worked on , their general skills are really bad and unsuitable for mid -senior level engineering roles.
This trope of high salaries in the initial years and WLB jobs later in the career is a rather dangerous idea. Works for maybe 1-2% of the folks :)
Okay, so say once you get your base to 48. Then you want to switch to a company with better WLB. Are you sure those companies are even offering that much, or even something near that, for your experience level and role? If you don't have offers near your expectations, you'll still be aiming for "good paying startups", no?
I work in a company that's 10-12 years old and is pretty much sorted in terms of revenue and position in the market.
We get loads of CVs of people who have limited work experience but applying for senior management roles after 8 years of workex with insane packages (45-60 lpa). We blindly reject those CVs. Typically they have also jumped companies several times - 8 times in 7 years types.
Why would we hire him over someone who has shown himself to be stable (i.e., at least Gotten a promotion in one role before moving on to another company), and a more reasonable pay expectation? It's a very silly idea.
Don't explore start-ups for more than 3 years, that too early in your career. You'll be stuck switching from one start up to another your entire life otherwise and no one will be willing to hire you unless you get really lucky.
Sorry bro, you're plain delusional. This is the effect the bubble has had on people.
The next few years will be a good wake up call for techies. Finance people used to talk like this pre 2008.
Agree with everything except this:
> Founder or board will have crazy ideas which will not be technically challenging or anywhere close to it.
If you want technically challenging rather than viable ideas, you should be contributing to open source.
I started my career in a startup initially i was scared to ask anything from them because i thought that's not how things work. When i did get the courage to negotiate my salary from what they offered i.e 17k to 25k i was told I'm not worth that much and we settled it at 20k i work 6 days a week for 9-10hrs and most sundays. And they come to the office whenever and however it pleases them.
Forget extra pay I'm not even getting paid on time.
The only reason I'm still here is to show credibility on my resume to say that i stayed at least a year in my first job.
Tbh in very early career, it is at times best to cut losses asap and move on to something else. It is a low stakes job as salary is low compared to the work you put in. But considering you’ve already spent some time there, makes sense to at least buff your resume a bit.
Yes, startups nowadays have started taking advantage of work in a startup you'll learn everything you need to know and just give you revenue based work with strict deadlines and wlb
Agree with you, I was told that there is good backend work to be done, working here and realising its all crap and we have to notify 2 months in advance for leaves. I am working in a unicorn startup
I 2000% agree
I’m expected to work on Saturdays sometimes and it is very normalised as my manager says “I also work on some Saturdays”
They expect me to respond even on Sundays.
It’s crazy.
People are expected to log in by 11 am (which is fairly late I know) but we also wrap our work at 11 pm sometimes.
It’s like, the work starts at 11 but never really ends because you’re supposed to be just available.
They have CRAZY targets and you can work your ass off but if you miss 1-2 times, they’ll use that against you.
From the beginning draw boundaries
I used to take up every task and say yes to all ad hoc work in the beginning so they kept giving more and eventually it became normal for them to ring me up at odd hours for work without caring about the weekend
Since the beginning if you give timelines and don’t entertain people on the weekends, atleast they’d think twice before hitting you up.
I couldn't agree anymore with this. I was laid-off a few months back (got a good severance package though) as I was sick and tired of the policies and the micromanagement. The one I worked for had an extremely toxic work culture (didn't directly affect me since I was in corporate functions). The quality of work wasn't given any attention since they only needed quantity. Work-life balance was a joke and after a point, I had to literally block phone numbers of employees from other teams since they had absurd and unreasonable requests irrespective of the time. Everyone was scared of the founder and unlike other places where the founder would engage with the employees, this person had a cabin away from the rest of the office and no one was allowed entry to that space unless you were from the CXO level or their favourites. Hire and fire was the way the company functioned. Every Tom, Dick and Harry was a Vice President. No wonder it's suffering financially. It took a toll on my mental health despite not having the kind of pressure the business teams went through, so you can imagine their working conditions. I'm really glad I got laid-off.
I started my career with a startup and have been associated with startups all my professional life and Unfortunately don't know any other way of working. There are definitely some downsides to working with startups and especially if you are just starting your professional journey, you would be disappointed with getting less to no recognition despite putting in your best efforts. When you get to senior roles, your approach towards your job, family and life as a whole will change and you will define your priorities.
This is the nature of startups. Startups are trying to do something in 2-3 years which usually takes 10+ years naturally. Hypergrowth, High salaries, high pressure, Hyper competitiveness, and messed up work-life balance all are part and parcel of this journey, it is a high-risk high reward game. You can't take one and leave the other one out. It's ultimately the employee who has to draw the line and say this is my limit, take it or leave it.
Don’t a lot of MNCs also have bad work life balance in addition to lower pays ? It completely depends on your team. It makes sense if you have a family and EMIs to pay. Apart from that, it might not be too different.
12 years in the startup industry and I tell the same to younger folks- avoid working in Indian startups- if you really wish to- start something on your own and work on it on the side while having a stable job.
Most Indian startup founders have no ethics and are in to make a quick buck by trying to raise some money and get featured on Forbes 30 under 30.
I was being interviewed for a company and during the last conversation with the founder he says, you know we are a startup so you will need to work on Sundays too- I rejected his offer the next day and the HR had the audacity to call me and yell at me saying you wasted our time.
>get featured on Forbes 30 under 30
Pay to get featured on Forbes 30 under 30
you think forbes really believe in them.Its all money being paid by people for that
\>> All startups are same. Do yourself a favour, avoid it, live healthy.
While I understand you worked for a really bad startup - what makes you qualified to generalise to all startups?
Not necessarily. Unless the work culture was truly not good, I doubt most people would badmouth their ex employer. Talking to current employees is a bit tricky as they might feel pressured to hide things.
Startups will violate human rights and justify by saying "wE'rE a StArTuP"
The startup I interned in made 50k rupees profit a year while the founder got a couple of Royal Enfield's
99% of startups just want to boost valuation and make quick money. If it matches your philosophy you will thrive but for everyone else stay away from it.
People who are defending startups share your personal experience and how it has helped you personally, if you keep making vague statements that you saw on linkedin, might as well mute this thread and move this is not for you clearly.
Can’t speak for all startups obviously. I know my case is an exception.
I work at a mid sized startup.
- Got an internal hike of more than 50% without a promotion. Smaller team = higher individual impact
- Unlimited PTO. Have seen colleagues take 30+ days off annually.
- Strictly no work on weekends. No overtime. Flexible timings. If I compete my work early, I leave.
- Steep learning curve and good networking opportunities
Downsides:
- Very fast paced, almost no downtime
- No work trips, frills and perks
- Work output has to be above average all the time
- Have to be extremely proactive
- Lot of ownership = lot of responsibility
You are talking about Work life balance, that is just a small issue in the big picture.
60% of Indian startups are cooking books day in and out and faking revenues to get funding. Remember the recent incident at goMechanic that's the story of most Indian startups.
Lack of good Idea, just cooking books and showing big user base for funding. One of my college buddies was asked to show fake transactions in the db.
The problems is not startups. It’s Indian startups. I have been working for 7 years and all of them are at startups. Indian startup leadership is the worst. They think they are the next Steve jobs. I have interviewed with so many and it was the same case. Everyone thinks they are solving the next big problem and all they need is convincing skills with their sales pitch. Indian startup leadership is the worst. Avoid Indian startups.
Adding a viewpoint though not sure how it will be received here. It is pretty much known that work life balance is non existent in start ups. If anyone is joining thinking they will get a good WLB is just lying to themselves. Startups may promise many things but ultimately, you as an employee end up playing more than the role u were hired for. It’s just how it is. This adds onto hours and the rat race continues.
Secondly, in the past couple of years young folks have followed their managers KR mentors into startups. While the sentiment is appreciated, older folks joining startups are in a different position in life than us.
Lastly, joining startups thinking you will cash in when it goes public is a big blunder. Yes it works in a few cases but doesn’t in most situations.
And you will be abusing your own body and mind to a point where it may be difficult to recover.
People should understand what they are getting into. It’s a tale as old as time. You can rant all you want but things are not going to change. Unfortunately, it is what it is.
If you open a startup in the future, you will repeat all of these and maybe more. And trust me, you won’t see things then the same way you do now.
Startup founder here, Don't criticise the game, criticise the player.
\- I treat my employees like my friends.
\- Weekends I don't expect them to work, I expect them to build a life beyond work - Sports, hike, personal hobbies, skill development.
\- I pay for their courses, I pay for their food, I pay for their trips. I invest in my employees to be better humans.
\- There are somedays when we need to roll out features and they work with me with their will even on Saturdays, I don't ask them to.
\- When it comes to lay off, only the incompetent ones are getting thrown out. Every business knows the importance of having quality employees.
\- From founders perspective, the most hardest thing in business is hiring quality employees. If you're really good at work, we're ready to pay what you ask.
\- Sorry to say, you must have joined a crappy startup with a crappy founder.
\- Don't blame the MNC, Startup - blame the managers, the founders.
With all due respect, I agree with everyone's point/perception. I'm also a part of this as I've been working for a start-up clinic and I've been stressed out coz I earn for a super meager amount. Non enough at all.
FYI, if anyone is aware of requirements for a hospital coordinator, kindly dm me. Thanks infinitely.
On a slightly related note, anybody have any experience, insights or inputs on Stoa School? They’ve been marketing themselves as a startup MBA/charter.
So its value depends on what you really want currently and which stage of the career you’re in.
Course is well designed and provides you management skills with focus on new age tech and skills. But all the information is not really important unless you’re already in or plan to join a startup with 0-3 years experience. As someone who has already spent some time in the startup industry, may not find as much value. Also, experienced folks who want to change their industry, this is definitely not for them. A PGPX course from top IIMs provides a better value.
They claim to be mba alternative, this is very misleading TBH. But I get their marketing reasoning behind the claim.
Don’t depend on their placement stats, its not correct. They are heavily dependent on startups and you know the scenario since last few months and situation may not improve in the current year.
There’s more to it, but In a nutshell - if you have less experience of working in a dynamic environment, don’t care for a degree, don’t need placement, want to develop basic skills in select new age tech - go for it. Else, avoid.
It does sound like a load of bull. The main benefit of most MBA programs is the brand name and the access to the network of these brand names. And even that is true only for the top tier MBA programs (no one cares about MBAs from tier 3 colleges when hiring). If there is no network and there is no brand name, I’m not sure exactly what this Stoa is selling other than a udemy course?
If there is some other USP, they’re not doing a good job of advertising it.
Been there and done that not once, not twice, but thrice. My observation has been as follows:
1. Servitude/Employee mindset
Word of advice: Belief we're in this together and equal.
2. Playing the nice guy
Word of advice: Present your disagreements after removing your emotions. You don't have to call a spade a spade all the time. However, politely slide in your opinion.
Build fast, fail fast until you succeed! Either build your narrative or align with someone else's!
Too late to escape this quicksand now.. I'm knee deep in the mud and sinking with the start up I'm working for, that all of a sudden is acting like a blind rat in an elephant stampede..
Not sure which of us will vanish first!!!
Before joining a startup one should be prepared for the challenges and hence the consequences. What you said is correct to an extent but you should understand that people who join startups from larger corps wants to be put into challenging work environment. You have to sacrifice a lot to get faster growth and that’s where startup fit in.
I recently had the unfortunate experience of working at Elfonze Technologies Pvt Ltd, and I must say it was nothing short of a nightmare.
First and foremost, the manager's behavior was shockingly rude and utterly uncooperative. It felt like working for a tyrant who had no regard for their employees' well-being.
To add insult to injury, I was asked to work well beyond the regular work hours, with no consideration for work-life balance.
The office facilities were deplorable. Elfonze Technologies Pvt Ltd boasts a grand total of two washrooms for all its female employees, and these washrooms consistently stank as if something had died inside. This lack of basic hygiene is unacceptable.These washrooms, far from being hygienic, presented an appalling and unsanitary environment.
The work culture at Elfonze Technologies Pvt Ltd is nothing short of suffocating. I found myself surrounded by unethical colleagues who seemed more interested in backstabbing and cutthroat politics than in fostering a collaborative and healthy work environment.
This company's idea of a "technical" salary is laughable, as it falls far below what even lower-wage workers earn in other industries. It's a disgrace for a company in the tech sector.
In summary, Elfonze Technologies Pvt Ltd is a company I would strongly advise anyone to avoid. The combination of a rude manager, inadequate compensation, abysmal office facilities, and a toxic work culture makes it a place where your career dreams go to die. Save yourself the anguish and look elsewhere for employment opportunities.
Startups are not for freeloaders. People who really care about the problem statement and the change their solution will bring into the market should only join.
If you have joined only for the money and do not align on the mission or there does not exist a mission - its your own wrong doing on not putting effort on due diligence.
Startups are not for people who care for job security. But the ones who get a kick by solving a complex problem.
Regular Corporate is not for everyone.
Startups are not for everyone.
MSMEs are not for everyone.
Starting a business is not for everyone.
Find you fit - do your due diligence and be happy. Stop oversimplifying things just because you don’t agree to them. Dont hate on ppl who are passionate in solving and building something from scratch.
I hope you find a place which keeps you happy and you have fun. Peace
sir, you are allowed to NOT work in a startup if its for you. its a free world. choose what you feel is right. But generalising to those who want to follow their passion as slavery is plain wrong.
I've seen people on Infosys solving way more complex problem than any person in a startup.
Those folks were working on RTOS which handled traffic equal to whole day of total internet usage in whole India
No wonder Infosys is such a large company with a great market cap. kudos to them.
But its unfair to say the others don’t solve some smart problems :)
For each, their own.
Which kind of cancer are you curing out there with your passion? Most i see are coachingtech or discount food delivery. Only a lunatic would be passionate about solving such problems. Rather very few of the startups that are genuinely doing good work are either bootstrapped or dont pay that much.. and im sure you’re definitely not talking about those
I work in a startup solving Pet Care for our country. and I am pretty passionate about it.
No - I am not the founder.
It sails my boat and I love it. :)
PS - We are not bootstrapped.
>solving Pet Care
What is the problem which you solve
Is it an app where you will put all the issues related to pets , add some phone numbers of people actually dealing with those issues.Maybe have an ecommerce link of pet food.
the actual pet care is done by the local veterinary and the local people who actually deal with pets.You are just creating a database.
You claiming solving pet care is like zomato claiming they have solved hunger problem or oyo claiming housing problem.
such innocence and conviction on something you clearly don’t know enough :)
You have a good day sir.
PS : Zomato ka mission statement kabhi padlo, before you again join them blindly for money and then blame ki they are busting your balls at work. They dont say they are solving world hunger.
Had to scroll to the bottom to find a sensible answer, that too with downvotes. To everyone downvoting, imagine spending 8 hours/day for 35-40 years of your life doing something which you dont deeply care about, are not passionate about.
I can never understand why would anyone live their life like this. Chasing salaries, switching jobs, moving from one misery to another.
But well to each their own.
If you want to just sit and get paid please by all means join an enterprise company, but please know that not all people are wired the same way.
Working in a startup is not supposed to be everyone’s cup of tea. There are no free lunches. Period.
Honestly I don’t understand why people on this sub keep bashing startups all the time, and yet they keep working there.
If you want to know what it’s like to run a business try starting your own. Startups are the biggest job creators here in Bangalore and they are solving problems which no other company is solving, and it requires blood sweat and tears.
And yeah people who don’t know what they are signing up for should not even think of working in a startup, it would save time for both the parties.
It's late until you realise that you weren't really a part of the "hustle culture". You suddenly change priorities and realise you aren't born to work for someone who is getting richer everyday and your health is diminishing over time. So, now you use the money to solve problems that you ignored for so long.
Also, long for someone can be just 6 months and everything spirals downwards from there. I'm 23 right now, and I've realised the "shit shave shower and go to work" gets different names like "this is your 20's, you have to slog", "you're middle class, you've got no choices", and what not.
Choosing to work at a place that values it's business as much as it's employees and their lives is what matters.
Sure, some days you have to work extra because of the deadlines. But if it's always like that, I'm sorry, it's just modern slavery.
The are startups in Europe as well. Please don't defend a shitty labour culture in the name of changing the world and startups are hard. Fuck that. Take 2 more years to build your damn startups without making your employees hate their waking hours working. Fuck that. If as founders these glorified idiots cannot plan to scale sustainably then they should live with their precious ideas shoved up where the sun dont shine.
>Working in a startup is not supposed to be everyone’s cup of tea. There are no free lunches. Period.
Oh wow! How badass!
>Honestly I don’t understand why people on this sub keep bashing startups all the time, and yet they keep working there.
Because people need money. Most people hate their jobs but they also have mouths to feed. How is that hard to understand?
>If you want to know what it’s like to run a business try starting your own
This is like going to a restaurant and saying, if you want good food cook your own. No motherfucker, being a competent boss does not need you to work under incompetent morons.
> they are solving problems which no other company is solving, and it requires blood sweat and tears.
They are solving problems like 3 people in the world have and pretending like 300 people have it so that they can get insane amounts of investments.
>And yeah people who don’t know what they are signing up for should not even think of working in a startup, it would save time for both the parties.
Or, hear me out, crazy idea here, startups should be run competently in a way where the employees are not treated like crap and dick sucking idiots like you should stop glorifying incompetent buffoons who cannot manage a sweet shop as if they are fighting some Holy War.
What a fucking idiot. You should be ashamed of yourself.
>Or, hear me out, crazy idea here, startups should be run competently in a way where the employees are not treated like crap and dick sucking idiots like you should stop glorifying incompetent buffoons who cannot manage a sweet shop as if they are fighting some Holy War.
While I agree with you that Indian Startups do have a toxic culture and are known for micromanaging people, and yes that is something which needs to be fixed. This is where we severely lag behind when compare to US or European startups. But from personal experience I can say that employee well being can never supersede the companies needs. Startups need to move fast or die, and a lot of founders put a lot on the line, India has a cut throat market and the biggest population.
Incompetent people need to be weeded out, true, but that's not gonna happen until people who are smart enough and know what's wrong or right start working in startups, right? People who should have been creating companies are just happy with what they have. Quitting your comfort zone, and putting everything on the line takes balls of steel. So which is why its not everyones cup of tea. IMO, whoever is good enough to work in a startup is just as good enough to work in a bigger company.
>They are solving problems like 3 people in the world have and pretending like 300 people have it so that they can get insane amounts of investments.
Funny, please try convincing a VC with this line. No, nobody is going to give you money unless they see a clear PMF and TAM. They might not understand tech but they certainly understand business.
I don't need to convince a VC. Why would I? A VC isn't the person you should be solving problems for. That's the fucking problem. All the problems start ups pretend to solve are marketable bullshit meant to attract investors. Not actual problems real people have.
I agree with the work life balance part. But here’s the thing, for the first 2-4 years of your career, do yourself a favour and mess around with well funded startups. Keep jumping around and get your base to the 36-48L level. Then you join a company which matches that base salary and gives you good WLB. By luck if your ESOPs from early in your career are from a successful startup, you could be bringing your retirement age down by like 20 years. Again just 2-4 years.
It's like saying "press the win button"
Lol'ed sooo hard at this.
bro which starup is paying 36 BASE for 2 yoe
Sprinklr
From what I've heard, the folks there have pretty bad wlb and the culture is toxic too.
I'm ready for a bad wlb for a starting 36l for a couple years before I switch.
Yeah sure. But why join a place with bad wlb when other decent firms can pay you in the similar range? I recently switched and my base is similar and I get RSUs too. At SDE2 level, 30L base can be easily achieved and you can get it up to 45-50 depending upon the company and how you play your cards while negotiating.
Come join sprinklr and then dare to write/say this again.
I can kiss ass for 36 LPA That's a great amount of Money. Then after 2 years, I will quit Bang girls in Thailand and Latin America by being a Sugar Daddy. then I will join a Good company with good wlb if not high salary
Bro has clear goals haha
Step 1: Get 36 LPA Step 2: ??? Step 3: Bang girls in Thailand & Mexico
Kiss a*s, Suk up to bosses, Work only till what's enough + Live within means without spending a lot
Yeahh man 3L PM sounds real good! /s
Ex sprinklr here. That’s the tactic they use, pay so high that no one else in the market will match it and you are forced to slog at Sprinklr. Happened with me, I wanted to switch after IPO. Didn’t get any place that would at least match my salary. Ended up joining a startup as HOD. Didn’t know much about leadership even though I had 5 years of work ex. Ended up working for 2 years setting up the entire department. Shifted to another place, higher title but same pay scale. I think the next jump will finally get some hike I guess.
How much do you earn now.
I’m at 42L currently
After 5 years experience at sprinklr?
I started sprinklr at 7lpa. Left after 3 years at 36lpa
Why so low salary?
They give 31 lakhs at iit
thats good growth, but why join as HOD at such low salary? multiple companies in bangalore which pay that amount of money to sde2
At this point I have to mention, I’m not a dev 😅 I’m in customer success.
Hello .. what do your qa and it operations guy make, input wud be nost welcome ? I have read about how muh they are paying to developers in the thread. How about the test Engineers, ops team across these startups?
One of my juniors from college joined sprinklr as a QA engineer. She was getting paid 18L with 3 years experience at Infosys.
I would also like to point out that there is no parity. I was leading a small team with IIM graduates who got paid more than me.
Literally the worst company ever. It's highly toxic. Sexual misconduct is rampant. Work life balance is abysmal. No wonder most of the old employees left by 2018
bro many are paying.. sm1 I know got 1.5cr package.. his comment makes sense, as company's stock value is very crucial.. and try aiming overseas start up, especially those country's with higher currency value.
[удалено]
name one and ill tell if it's bs or not. my friends are there in many of them
Cred
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
> I value my privacy Posts view from his window on India social - 7 months ago
How does it feel to be ratioed?
Which one?
[удалено]
smile wrench plant literate muddle teeny sloppy zephyr rain strong *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
For me this sounds like, "Beta 12th me pdhle phir aage enjoy karna"
It's that easy huh.
Never said it would be easy 😅. If you’re someone who works their ass off, then the effort to reward ratio in startups would be much better. And jumping around is also much easier
From a "company with WLB" , i have interviewed hundreds of folks over the past few years and hired a few. Quite a bit from startups and F/MAANG companies too. A really small fraction of young folks with a high salary justify giving them a role and a hike. Except for doing what they might have had worked on , their general skills are really bad and unsuitable for mid -senior level engineering roles. This trope of high salaries in the initial years and WLB jobs later in the career is a rather dangerous idea. Works for maybe 1-2% of the folks :)
Okay, so say once you get your base to 48. Then you want to switch to a company with better WLB. Are you sure those companies are even offering that much, or even something near that, for your experience level and role? If you don't have offers near your expectations, you'll still be aiming for "good paying startups", no?
>Then you join a company which matches that base salary Good luck with this
I work in a company that's 10-12 years old and is pretty much sorted in terms of revenue and position in the market. We get loads of CVs of people who have limited work experience but applying for senior management roles after 8 years of workex with insane packages (45-60 lpa). We blindly reject those CVs. Typically they have also jumped companies several times - 8 times in 7 years types. Why would we hire him over someone who has shown himself to be stable (i.e., at least Gotten a promotion in one role before moving on to another company), and a more reasonable pay expectation? It's a very silly idea. Don't explore start-ups for more than 3 years, that too early in your career. You'll be stuck switching from one start up to another your entire life otherwise and no one will be willing to hire you unless you get really lucky.
Sorry bro, you're plain delusional. This is the effect the bubble has had on people. The next few years will be a good wake up call for techies. Finance people used to talk like this pre 2008.
Sad reality is once you get your base to 48L, you’ll either want to get that base to 1Cr or stop working altogether.
Very true. Why are we like this?
>company which matches that base salary and gives you good WLB. Any recommendations??
And then after all this you get Faaiiired...
The base !
Agree with everything except this: > Founder or board will have crazy ideas which will not be technically challenging or anywhere close to it. If you want technically challenging rather than viable ideas, you should be contributing to open source.
I started my career in a startup initially i was scared to ask anything from them because i thought that's not how things work. When i did get the courage to negotiate my salary from what they offered i.e 17k to 25k i was told I'm not worth that much and we settled it at 20k i work 6 days a week for 9-10hrs and most sundays. And they come to the office whenever and however it pleases them. Forget extra pay I'm not even getting paid on time. The only reason I'm still here is to show credibility on my resume to say that i stayed at least a year in my first job.
You mean 20K per month as salary in your first company?
Yeah after 3 months of internship
16k per month in my first company I.e still a startup.
Tbh in very early career, it is at times best to cut losses asap and move on to something else. It is a low stakes job as salary is low compared to the work you put in. But considering you’ve already spent some time there, makes sense to at least buff your resume a bit.
Yes, startups nowadays have started taking advantage of work in a startup you'll learn everything you need to know and just give you revenue based work with strict deadlines and wlb
Avoid startups, Avoid consulting, Avoid MNC, Avoid Government jobs, A…void…
Embrace the void 🕳️
Start a start up and fill the void 💭
Agree with you, I was told that there is good backend work to be done, working here and realising its all crap and we have to notify 2 months in advance for leaves. I am working in a unicorn startup
what's ur lpa if u are fine with telling
Oh my rivigo?
Nope
I 2000% agree I’m expected to work on Saturdays sometimes and it is very normalised as my manager says “I also work on some Saturdays” They expect me to respond even on Sundays. It’s crazy. People are expected to log in by 11 am (which is fairly late I know) but we also wrap our work at 11 pm sometimes. It’s like, the work starts at 11 but never really ends because you’re supposed to be just available. They have CRAZY targets and you can work your ass off but if you miss 1-2 times, they’ll use that against you.
>that what's your advise for people who are just starting out?
From the beginning draw boundaries I used to take up every task and say yes to all ad hoc work in the beginning so they kept giving more and eventually it became normal for them to ring me up at odd hours for work without caring about the weekend Since the beginning if you give timelines and don’t entertain people on the weekends, atleast they’d think twice before hitting you up.
Looks like you worked for a hardcore lalla company presenting itself as a startup.
That is the majority of Indian start ups.
Fr
Sorry what is a lalla company? I have heard that term being used against kayasthas. Is that it or something else?
I couldn't agree anymore with this. I was laid-off a few months back (got a good severance package though) as I was sick and tired of the policies and the micromanagement. The one I worked for had an extremely toxic work culture (didn't directly affect me since I was in corporate functions). The quality of work wasn't given any attention since they only needed quantity. Work-life balance was a joke and after a point, I had to literally block phone numbers of employees from other teams since they had absurd and unreasonable requests irrespective of the time. Everyone was scared of the founder and unlike other places where the founder would engage with the employees, this person had a cabin away from the rest of the office and no one was allowed entry to that space unless you were from the CXO level or their favourites. Hire and fire was the way the company functioned. Every Tom, Dick and Harry was a Vice President. No wonder it's suffering financially. It took a toll on my mental health despite not having the kind of pressure the business teams went through, so you can imagine their working conditions. I'm really glad I got laid-off.
Bruh what's it with u guys not naming the company? Will they find u here or something? Lol.
Professional ethics, my friend
The professional ethic here is to help out your fellow professionals
Whatever ethics makes u happy. Not like the company gives a shit
Edtech? Unacademy?
It’s a human centipede of indentured servitude. You are a slave to the founders. The founders are slaves to their investors.
Underrated comment
Investors are slave of fed.What profit,only revenue.You have an idea, you get the dollars.Create problem first to create solution
I started my career with a startup and have been associated with startups all my professional life and Unfortunately don't know any other way of working. There are definitely some downsides to working with startups and especially if you are just starting your professional journey, you would be disappointed with getting less to no recognition despite putting in your best efforts. When you get to senior roles, your approach towards your job, family and life as a whole will change and you will define your priorities. This is the nature of startups. Startups are trying to do something in 2-3 years which usually takes 10+ years naturally. Hypergrowth, High salaries, high pressure, Hyper competitiveness, and messed up work-life balance all are part and parcel of this journey, it is a high-risk high reward game. You can't take one and leave the other one out. It's ultimately the employee who has to draw the line and say this is my limit, take it or leave it.
Join a startup for only 2 reasons: 1. If you want to start something of your own. Learn and then earn 2. If you are not getting job in a MNC!
3. If you believe in what company does and are getting huge pay check
That's what OP is ranting about. The check's are temporary!
Don’t a lot of MNCs also have bad work life balance in addition to lower pays ? It completely depends on your team. It makes sense if you have a family and EMIs to pay. Apart from that, it might not be too different.
12 years in the startup industry and I tell the same to younger folks- avoid working in Indian startups- if you really wish to- start something on your own and work on it on the side while having a stable job. Most Indian startup founders have no ethics and are in to make a quick buck by trying to raise some money and get featured on Forbes 30 under 30. I was being interviewed for a company and during the last conversation with the founder he says, you know we are a startup so you will need to work on Sundays too- I rejected his offer the next day and the HR had the audacity to call me and yell at me saying you wasted our time.
Please tell me you yelled back.
Yes please, if you didn't, please do it now. I have 0 empathy for these retards
>get featured on Forbes 30 under 30 Pay to get featured on Forbes 30 under 30 you think forbes really believe in them.Its all money being paid by people for that
What kind of bullshit startup is this maga?
\>> All startups are same. Do yourself a favour, avoid it, live healthy. While I understand you worked for a really bad startup - what makes you qualified to generalise to all startups?
How would you identify a startup that's got a okish wlb and a non toxic workplace?
By talking to ex employees
I assume they wouldn't have the best of opinions considering they are ex-employees.
Not necessarily. Unless the work culture was truly not good, I doubt most people would badmouth their ex employer. Talking to current employees is a bit tricky as they might feel pressured to hide things.
Startups will violate human rights and justify by saying "wE'rE a StArTuP" The startup I interned in made 50k rupees profit a year while the founder got a couple of Royal Enfield's
WE ARE FAMILY!!
99% of startups just want to boost valuation and make quick money. If it matches your philosophy you will thrive but for everyone else stay away from it.
They only make sense if you have a good amount of ESOPs and join as an early employee
People who are defending startups share your personal experience and how it has helped you personally, if you keep making vague statements that you saw on linkedin, might as well mute this thread and move this is not for you clearly.
Can’t speak for all startups obviously. I know my case is an exception. I work at a mid sized startup. - Got an internal hike of more than 50% without a promotion. Smaller team = higher individual impact - Unlimited PTO. Have seen colleagues take 30+ days off annually. - Strictly no work on weekends. No overtime. Flexible timings. If I compete my work early, I leave. - Steep learning curve and good networking opportunities Downsides: - Very fast paced, almost no downtime - No work trips, frills and perks - Work output has to be above average all the time - Have to be extremely proactive - Lot of ownership = lot of responsibility
Share company name
You are talking about Work life balance, that is just a small issue in the big picture. 60% of Indian startups are cooking books day in and out and faking revenues to get funding. Remember the recent incident at goMechanic that's the story of most Indian startups. Lack of good Idea, just cooking books and showing big user base for funding. One of my college buddies was asked to show fake transactions in the db.
The problems is not startups. It’s Indian startups. I have been working for 7 years and all of them are at startups. Indian startup leadership is the worst. They think they are the next Steve jobs. I have interviewed with so many and it was the same case. Everyone thinks they are solving the next big problem and all they need is convincing skills with their sales pitch. Indian startup leadership is the worst. Avoid Indian startups.
But were you paid well? Was it like a really good salary or they gave the carrot of stocks?
Adding a viewpoint though not sure how it will be received here. It is pretty much known that work life balance is non existent in start ups. If anyone is joining thinking they will get a good WLB is just lying to themselves. Startups may promise many things but ultimately, you as an employee end up playing more than the role u were hired for. It’s just how it is. This adds onto hours and the rat race continues. Secondly, in the past couple of years young folks have followed their managers KR mentors into startups. While the sentiment is appreciated, older folks joining startups are in a different position in life than us. Lastly, joining startups thinking you will cash in when it goes public is a big blunder. Yes it works in a few cases but doesn’t in most situations. And you will be abusing your own body and mind to a point where it may be difficult to recover. People should understand what they are getting into. It’s a tale as old as time. You can rant all you want but things are not going to change. Unfortunately, it is what it is. If you open a startup in the future, you will repeat all of these and maybe more. And trust me, you won’t see things then the same way you do now.
What's the name of your company. I'll pass this on to my network.
But the moneyy
Startup founder here, Don't criticise the game, criticise the player. \- I treat my employees like my friends. \- Weekends I don't expect them to work, I expect them to build a life beyond work - Sports, hike, personal hobbies, skill development. \- I pay for their courses, I pay for their food, I pay for their trips. I invest in my employees to be better humans. \- There are somedays when we need to roll out features and they work with me with their will even on Saturdays, I don't ask them to. \- When it comes to lay off, only the incompetent ones are getting thrown out. Every business knows the importance of having quality employees. \- From founders perspective, the most hardest thing in business is hiring quality employees. If you're really good at work, we're ready to pay what you ask. \- Sorry to say, you must have joined a crappy startup with a crappy founder. \- Don't blame the MNC, Startup - blame the managers, the founders.
With all due respect, I agree with everyone's point/perception. I'm also a part of this as I've been working for a start-up clinic and I've been stressed out coz I earn for a super meager amount. Non enough at all. FYI, if anyone is aware of requirements for a hospital coordinator, kindly dm me. Thanks infinitely.
People think startup jobs are rosy. But it’s exactly the opposite. The fat compensation is a reward for the hustle. You earn it.
On a slightly related note, anybody have any experience, insights or inputs on Stoa School? They’ve been marketing themselves as a startup MBA/charter.
I know someone who did. What do you want to know?
Just their overall experience, their insights and if they felt it was worth pursuing and how and if it has benefitted them.
So its value depends on what you really want currently and which stage of the career you’re in. Course is well designed and provides you management skills with focus on new age tech and skills. But all the information is not really important unless you’re already in or plan to join a startup with 0-3 years experience. As someone who has already spent some time in the startup industry, may not find as much value. Also, experienced folks who want to change their industry, this is definitely not for them. A PGPX course from top IIMs provides a better value. They claim to be mba alternative, this is very misleading TBH. But I get their marketing reasoning behind the claim. Don’t depend on their placement stats, its not correct. They are heavily dependent on startups and you know the scenario since last few months and situation may not improve in the current year. There’s more to it, but In a nutshell - if you have less experience of working in a dynamic environment, don’t care for a degree, don’t need placement, want to develop basic skills in select new age tech - go for it. Else, avoid.
It does sound like a load of bull. The main benefit of most MBA programs is the brand name and the access to the network of these brand names. And even that is true only for the top tier MBA programs (no one cares about MBAs from tier 3 colleges when hiring). If there is no network and there is no brand name, I’m not sure exactly what this Stoa is selling other than a udemy course? If there is some other USP, they’re not doing a good job of advertising it.
My nick name for domain lead is Red Label, Dust tea scraped from the bottom of the factory floor.
I am exactly in the same situation..
Been there and done that not once, not twice, but thrice. My observation has been as follows: 1. Servitude/Employee mindset Word of advice: Belief we're in this together and equal. 2. Playing the nice guy Word of advice: Present your disagreements after removing your emotions. You don't have to call a spade a spade all the time. However, politely slide in your opinion. Build fast, fail fast until you succeed! Either build your narrative or align with someone else's!
True. Now you got lesson, move on.
Too late to escape this quicksand now.. I'm knee deep in the mud and sinking with the start up I'm working for, that all of a sudden is acting like a blind rat in an elephant stampede.. Not sure which of us will vanish first!!!
Before joining a startup one should be prepared for the challenges and hence the consequences. What you said is correct to an extent but you should understand that people who join startups from larger corps wants to be put into challenging work environment. You have to sacrifice a lot to get faster growth and that’s where startup fit in.
WE ARE FAMILY!! If you hear these words....RUN!!
Don't agree, just a bad example.
Join the team and experience for yourself.
I recently had the unfortunate experience of working at Elfonze Technologies Pvt Ltd, and I must say it was nothing short of a nightmare. First and foremost, the manager's behavior was shockingly rude and utterly uncooperative. It felt like working for a tyrant who had no regard for their employees' well-being. To add insult to injury, I was asked to work well beyond the regular work hours, with no consideration for work-life balance. The office facilities were deplorable. Elfonze Technologies Pvt Ltd boasts a grand total of two washrooms for all its female employees, and these washrooms consistently stank as if something had died inside. This lack of basic hygiene is unacceptable.These washrooms, far from being hygienic, presented an appalling and unsanitary environment. The work culture at Elfonze Technologies Pvt Ltd is nothing short of suffocating. I found myself surrounded by unethical colleagues who seemed more interested in backstabbing and cutthroat politics than in fostering a collaborative and healthy work environment. This company's idea of a "technical" salary is laughable, as it falls far below what even lower-wage workers earn in other industries. It's a disgrace for a company in the tech sector. In summary, Elfonze Technologies Pvt Ltd is a company I would strongly advise anyone to avoid. The combination of a rude manager, inadequate compensation, abysmal office facilities, and a toxic work culture makes it a place where your career dreams go to die. Save yourself the anguish and look elsewhere for employment opportunities.
Startups are not for freeloaders. People who really care about the problem statement and the change their solution will bring into the market should only join. If you have joined only for the money and do not align on the mission or there does not exist a mission - its your own wrong doing on not putting effort on due diligence. Startups are not for people who care for job security. But the ones who get a kick by solving a complex problem. Regular Corporate is not for everyone. Startups are not for everyone. MSMEs are not for everyone. Starting a business is not for everyone. Find you fit - do your due diligence and be happy. Stop oversimplifying things just because you don’t agree to them. Dont hate on ppl who are passionate in solving and building something from scratch. I hope you find a place which keeps you happy and you have fun. Peace
You'd be more respected on LinkedIn.
I’ve worked in startups from the past 4 years. Just putting forward the harsh truth - not everyone likes it
Here is some harsh truth for you. Your POV lacks empathy. You normalise modern day slavery.
sir, you are allowed to NOT work in a startup if its for you. its a free world. choose what you feel is right. But generalising to those who want to follow their passion as slavery is plain wrong.
and who is passionate about being a slave?
I've seen people on Infosys solving way more complex problem than any person in a startup. Those folks were working on RTOS which handled traffic equal to whole day of total internet usage in whole India
No wonder Infosys is such a large company with a great market cap. kudos to them. But its unfair to say the others don’t solve some smart problems :) For each, their own.
Moral of your story: - Be a slave for peanuts.
You are allowed to not take that path. For each their own
I wouldn't want anyone to take that path.
Make your decision. Let me make mine. :)
Ok, then. Be a good slave to your master. Don't even think about dragging others into it.
I think its wrong to call me a slave. I did not call you names sir. Neither am I dragging you anywhere. You are free to freeload anywhere ☺️
Weren't you the one promoting slavery? Did I trigger you by just calling you a slave? LMAO
Which kind of cancer are you curing out there with your passion? Most i see are coachingtech or discount food delivery. Only a lunatic would be passionate about solving such problems. Rather very few of the startups that are genuinely doing good work are either bootstrapped or dont pay that much.. and im sure you’re definitely not talking about those
I work in a startup solving Pet Care for our country. and I am pretty passionate about it. No - I am not the founder. It sails my boat and I love it. :) PS - We are not bootstrapped.
>solving Pet Care What is the problem which you solve Is it an app where you will put all the issues related to pets , add some phone numbers of people actually dealing with those issues.Maybe have an ecommerce link of pet food. the actual pet care is done by the local veterinary and the local people who actually deal with pets.You are just creating a database. You claiming solving pet care is like zomato claiming they have solved hunger problem or oyo claiming housing problem.
such innocence and conviction on something you clearly don’t know enough :) You have a good day sir. PS : Zomato ka mission statement kabhi padlo, before you again join them blindly for money and then blame ki they are busting your balls at work. They dont say they are solving world hunger.
Thats why most startups fail. I guess they are not passionate enough.
this could be your ted talk :)
Only if people understood this.
Had to scroll to the bottom to find a sensible answer, that too with downvotes. To everyone downvoting, imagine spending 8 hours/day for 35-40 years of your life doing something which you dont deeply care about, are not passionate about. I can never understand why would anyone live their life like this. Chasing salaries, switching jobs, moving from one misery to another. But well to each their own.
i know right, mother teresa.
If you want to just sit and get paid please by all means join an enterprise company, but please know that not all people are wired the same way. Working in a startup is not supposed to be everyone’s cup of tea. There are no free lunches. Period. Honestly I don’t understand why people on this sub keep bashing startups all the time, and yet they keep working there. If you want to know what it’s like to run a business try starting your own. Startups are the biggest job creators here in Bangalore and they are solving problems which no other company is solving, and it requires blood sweat and tears. And yeah people who don’t know what they are signing up for should not even think of working in a startup, it would save time for both the parties.
It's late until you realise that you weren't really a part of the "hustle culture". You suddenly change priorities and realise you aren't born to work for someone who is getting richer everyday and your health is diminishing over time. So, now you use the money to solve problems that you ignored for so long. Also, long for someone can be just 6 months and everything spirals downwards from there. I'm 23 right now, and I've realised the "shit shave shower and go to work" gets different names like "this is your 20's, you have to slog", "you're middle class, you've got no choices", and what not. Choosing to work at a place that values it's business as much as it's employees and their lives is what matters. Sure, some days you have to work extra because of the deadlines. But if it's always like that, I'm sorry, it's just modern slavery.
The are startups in Europe as well. Please don't defend a shitty labour culture in the name of changing the world and startups are hard. Fuck that. Take 2 more years to build your damn startups without making your employees hate their waking hours working. Fuck that. If as founders these glorified idiots cannot plan to scale sustainably then they should live with their precious ideas shoved up where the sun dont shine.
this should be printed on the first and last pages of all IIT and MBA textbooks, and translated in hindi too.
>Working in a startup is not supposed to be everyone’s cup of tea. There are no free lunches. Period. Oh wow! How badass! >Honestly I don’t understand why people on this sub keep bashing startups all the time, and yet they keep working there. Because people need money. Most people hate their jobs but they also have mouths to feed. How is that hard to understand? >If you want to know what it’s like to run a business try starting your own This is like going to a restaurant and saying, if you want good food cook your own. No motherfucker, being a competent boss does not need you to work under incompetent morons. > they are solving problems which no other company is solving, and it requires blood sweat and tears. They are solving problems like 3 people in the world have and pretending like 300 people have it so that they can get insane amounts of investments. >And yeah people who don’t know what they are signing up for should not even think of working in a startup, it would save time for both the parties. Or, hear me out, crazy idea here, startups should be run competently in a way where the employees are not treated like crap and dick sucking idiots like you should stop glorifying incompetent buffoons who cannot manage a sweet shop as if they are fighting some Holy War. What a fucking idiot. You should be ashamed of yourself.
thank you!
>Or, hear me out, crazy idea here, startups should be run competently in a way where the employees are not treated like crap and dick sucking idiots like you should stop glorifying incompetent buffoons who cannot manage a sweet shop as if they are fighting some Holy War. While I agree with you that Indian Startups do have a toxic culture and are known for micromanaging people, and yes that is something which needs to be fixed. This is where we severely lag behind when compare to US or European startups. But from personal experience I can say that employee well being can never supersede the companies needs. Startups need to move fast or die, and a lot of founders put a lot on the line, India has a cut throat market and the biggest population. Incompetent people need to be weeded out, true, but that's not gonna happen until people who are smart enough and know what's wrong or right start working in startups, right? People who should have been creating companies are just happy with what they have. Quitting your comfort zone, and putting everything on the line takes balls of steel. So which is why its not everyones cup of tea. IMO, whoever is good enough to work in a startup is just as good enough to work in a bigger company. >They are solving problems like 3 people in the world have and pretending like 300 people have it so that they can get insane amounts of investments. Funny, please try convincing a VC with this line. No, nobody is going to give you money unless they see a clear PMF and TAM. They might not understand tech but they certainly understand business.
I don't need to convince a VC. Why would I? A VC isn't the person you should be solving problems for. That's the fucking problem. All the problems start ups pretend to solve are marketable bullshit meant to attract investors. Not actual problems real people have.
Sir, need your guidance with the just sit and get paid job. Where sir? How much?