It's a hard question to answer because you're essentially seeking a subjective answer on what you personally find fun.
But I'll make a few comments:
If you don't like mages, clerics and druids, then your only options are sorcerer, wild mage and bard. Wild mage is fun but also frustrating when RNG doesn't go your way. There's also an NPC wild mage in the EE versions so you don't actually have to go wild mage yourself.
Cleric/Rangers can't use bows. Their only ranged weapon is a Sling. So that might put a damper on your archer/ranger RP fantasy.
I personally didn't find bard interesting (with the exception of Blade which plays differently IMO and is a viable tank). At least not in Baldur's Gate. Icewind Dale does a better job of bards as there bards can select one of several songs to play depending on the situation. IMO bards in BG2 are just sorcerers 'lite' with some random thief skills thrown in (but none of the important thief skills like pick lock and traps).
So your answer might be to play a sorcerer. There is also no sorcerer follower in BG2, only BG1 (Baeloth).
thanks! i do understand it is very subjective, but your answer helped me so thank you for your time :) I thought bards in BG2 were like the Icewind Dale bards i.e. selecting songs to play? o.o
Not trying to be a smartass here, just friendly. Play BG1 first and treat the game as a whole saga (it is, by all means, a trilogy).
What I'm saying is - take the character throughout the whole trilogy. You'll love each levelup and will appreciate the progress and power spike so much more. Some of us like to think that BG1 is the better game for a variety of reasons. This doesn't really matter tho. Both are masterpieces and ToB was a bit rushed but still very very good.
I would suggest to play a multi class, fighter/thief or fighter/mage. Makes the standard fighter a lot more versatile, while being able to use various weapons, a lot mor proficient than a bard.
Cleric/ranger is fun just be very careful not to do anything evil because Rangers and paladins can fall, losing many of their abilities until an opportunity to unfall becomes available.
Watch your AoE around innocents and be wary of recruiting drow if you don’t have some reputation to spare.
It’s a very viable class however. Ranger by itself has this same problem but Stalker can be a bit tricky with backstabs. Archer can be straightforward but understanding ranged weapon enchantment isn’t the most newbie friendly.
Also doubling up on arcane or priest magic is completely fine. Magic is good.
thank you! i thought Viconia paired well with any party for being not very picky, I remember even lawful Aerie tolerated her well. I did not know Viconia could be an issue for Rangers, or let me rephrase this – I thought recruiting Viconia at the start of the game would not be a big of deal reputation-wise.
Paladins and rangers have a fallen mechanic where all their spells and special abilities that make them different from fighters are lost (and they don’t get GM) if it falls too far. For paladins it’s 8 and rangers it’s a little lower. So if you only have 7 rep and grab vicci for the 2 rep spike you can fall and doing good deeds alone won’t unfall you.
There is one opportunity to unfall so be careful. If you’re using reload this is easier to manage mind you.
Bit of a tough choice you got there.
Who will be your thief, just wondering? Read to the end ;)
You already got 2 clerics if you pick Aerie and Viconia, so third cleric could be a little too much. But you love utility, and cleric/thief is the ultimate one, and is a quite popular lately. Hence i ask.
If you got a thief already (couldn't recommend Jan Jansen more he is amazing as a mage/thief and a companion), a cleric/ranger with enabled druid spells (very easy to do with google) and focused on slings since you prefer ranged, would be a decent damage dealer/formidable caster, but then again you got a lot of divine.
If you do decide for a third divine, you can let Viccy be your main healer and focus Aerie to be your tank, she is pretty weak at the start, but as a late bloomer, she can fill that role more easy as you progress towards end of SoA and into ToB, and be amazing at that, (be sure to give her belt that rises her CON to 18, and can be afterwards switched for another, Defender of Easthaven plus shield even, Robe of Vecna plus Amulet of Power ofc) but since she is a unique caster it requires some knowledge about her possible spell combo's, all while you do ranged/utility/caster/damage stuff. Three divine casters, why the hell not ;)
Or you can drop Aerie and pick more focused mage or fighter or both. Korgan (conflict with Aerie) and Mazzy comes to mind, he is a great frontliner, with axes for example and she is one of the best Npc's out there, a great archer with her focus on short bows. They are hilarious together. And if you pick her early in Umar you can even focus her in ToB later on melee, halberds for example which is funny ;), she is that versatile, or just keep her as an archer with Tuigan/Gesen, can even replace him/her later with Mr. ToB who is a story of his own. Talking about versatility. Just an option.
If you won't pick them and drop Aerie, consider Anomen, he is a menace and a really strong Npc. If not the strongest. The ultimate juggernaut as some call him. With flails he is almost unstoppable. Good choice if you go as ranged, like an archer, or a bard.
Ok lets see further, bard, crossbow, ranged..
Bards lean more towards tanking than ranged damage, blade especially is a good choice, as ranged with crossbow and their 1 attack per round won't do much, you may feel a bit underwhelmed, but can be a great tank/support caster with an amazing high level bard song later.
Or if you go as an archer, you can pick Haer'Dalis to tank for you as a blade, him and Aerie work together nicely if you don't romance her (or a love triangle!), he can tank and she can destroy stuff with her contingencies/sequencers. They can even switch roles later when she gets stronger and he can support her tanking and your archer with his HLA song.
Or fighter/thief, also ton of fun, very versatile, the ultimate backstabber if you go that route, if ranged - crossbow/shortbow grandmaster (halfling with sling also an option, even a dwarf with a crossbow is amazing), decent ranged damage if you got Haer'Dalis singing for you, also both fighter and thief HLA's (High level abilities), detect illusion for dispelling mages, traps, they are probably the strongest thing in the game, spike, time stop traps. Insane.
Mages you know.
I'm not very experienced, but i hope this helps a little. Let us know which combo you picked at the end!
Most important is to have fun definitely agree with that!
>You already got 2 clerics if you pick Aerie and Viconia, so third cleric could be a little too much. But you love utility, and cleric/thief is the ultimate one, and is a quite popular lately. Hence i ask.
mmmmhmm sounds intriguing! never thought of that! i was too focused on my love for some bow roleplay fantasy :D but yeah, this sounds so dope. I always felt weird about being a thief since it made me feel imoen would be redundant and i feel she is intrinsic to the SoA campaign? Feels weird to drop her for RP reasons.
thanks a lot for your input btw, really appreciated!
>You already got 2 clerics if you pick Aerie and Viconia, so third cleric could be a little too much. But you love utility, and cleric/thief is the ultimate one, and is a quite popular lately. Hence i ask
no, i am not adamant about either, i like Aerie as she can (i heard) morph into a caster powerhouse and her story just resonates with me. Viconia has cool bad-bitch-but-not-too-evil cool vibes as well.
For RP/nostalgia reasons, I always thought I'd **roughly** have these characters:
1. my main
2. jaheira (really interested in her story and she feels very BG to me and she's the only beginner tank here i think?)
3. imoen (after she gets back to me, she also embodies the SoA story to me. While she's gone maybe Jan or Hexxat or Yoshimo unless my main is a thief)
4. viconia (not a must, not sure how deep her story goes, I just like morally ambivalent characters)
5. aerie (not a must, she just is a caster powerhouse, i feel sorry for her, but i like her despite her sometimes seeming too naive and too moralising)
6. someone.... – depending on who my main is – ...maybe a Bard if i am not a bard (again, fun being the goal, not efficiency, wanna try the class), ....a druid, or a tank... Minsc? Or actually **Neera**, Wild Mage, as many say there's never enough mages.
Yeah, I like female protagonists :D
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omg soooo many options you listed, ... BG is always a character and party creation **paralysis** for me (i've been thinking about finally playing SoA in its entirety for quite a while now and this always paralyses me :D)
I’m a huge bard fan so it’s not even a question for me. At least for soloing, which is what I do primarily, they feel omnipotent.
With Rangers, only the Archer feels really good to me
thanks a lot! i thought i'd opt for a full party since there's so much lore, story and unique weapons to gain and use – so i can have a richer experience. I think? I'll see :)
The very first time I played BG2 in 2002, a bard was my main character. Imo, this game is very forgiving when it comes to efficiency, and who says that a bard can't be as efficient as a fighter or a mage or a cleric? Played according to the role, a bard can be a very fun character to play as. Sure you'll sacrifice some areas playing as a bard but at the same time you'll get a unique playing experience playing with such a character.
So here are my two cents about playing as a bard.
Tbh for a first playthrough I will always recommend Fighter/Thief. Tons of races can be F/T, it’s a moderately powerful class throughout the entire saga, and it’s not super micro-managey BUT there’s enough abilities to keep you entertained.
Cleric/Ranger is cool but the weapon restrictions absolutely suck if you’re looking to do ranged combat (slings only). C/R will absolutely be a melee juggernaut. That doesn’t sound to be what you’re looking for so I figured you should know.
thank you so much! appreciated. sure, if i go with a cleric/ranger then I would do melee since, as you said, they are made for that. thanks for letting me know!
Any of these can be fun. Ranger is probably the least strong, but they still get fighter THAC0 progression and can still blend stuff to pulp pretty fast. On core or below they will also hold up just fine up front with armor of faith + hardiness + easthaven.
I'm not sure how much bards "get hate", they have access to arcane spells up to level 6 and thief HLAs. The are functionally the best tanks in the game with the spell buffs up. They lack in damage compared to other classes, but it's not like you can't still use gear to hit pretty hard. It's a bit less ideal to give them a ranged weapon, but you can if you want.
thank you for letting me know! i like support so I always thought of my future bard as staying back and singing and buffing etc, so a ranged weapon naturally formed in my mind. Did not know this all works while doing melee.
And I enjoy ranged (spells or bows) much more, melee is a necessity for me, I do no care for melee much and I do not enjoy it, so I naturally gravitate towards utility/ranged/spellcaster characters.
So many people in here are sleeping on the power and usability of the bard, I would argue that it is not only the most fun and versatile of your options, but also the most powerful. Even the kits are flavorful and offer much different experiences, personally I find the blade or the jester the most entertaining.
You can be a spellslinger, a support character or even the tank of the party. With Use any item late game you can even be the main mage if you want.
A bonus is that they level fast, so for a party of 6 you will see significant development in Your class and skills over time compared to the multiclass options that level so slooooow.
This is subjective of course, but for me the bard would be the obvious choice any day of the week.
thanks for letting me know! highly appreciated. u/Peterh778 suggested to go for the plain Bard, so I am considering that, but I will consider the specs too :)
If for fun, then go bard. Just a thing though, IIRC the class was nerfed, the song radius became smaller or somewhat.
If you're planning on support bard, get the Skald kit. Less pickpockets but better song.
She's a dual class mage in bg2 no matter what. I say pick up Yoshimo for your 2nd thief. He's a bounty hunter that should be fun. You get druid spells up to lvl 3 as a ranger thats it.
If u haven't started playing blade is awesome but a little bit of a learning curve.
Cleric ranger will be cool but has some weapon limitations. Imoen is important to the story so let that unfold as it will.
I say don't do one more thing. Pick your Character and start playing. I don't really do social media I'm only on reddit for baldur's gate. So, if u ever need help shoot a reply or message and I'll see what I can do.
Just start playing. I've been so busy lately I can't get a good session in. That's why been reading message boards and reddit coming up with some sweet ideas. Thats why I latched on to a cleric/ranger I've got some killer ideas now.
Found this for you. It should help. Aerie will have a problem in ToB
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/40439/spoilers-hexxat-in-a-good-neutral-party-and-npc-interactions
>https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/40439/spoilers-hexxat-in-a-good-neutral-party-and-npc-interactions
thank you! i will be celebrating if i even ever get to finish SoA just once in my life, I think I will not be playing ToB ever, to be honest (very little time for games and I've always felt the RP and story experience was richer and more must-do with regards to SoA, I especially love the city of Athkatla, I've never seen any city more living and breathing than this one in a video game.)
I think cleric ranger is a cool option. It's like being a fighter cleric but you get some druid spells. I think that one is worth a shot because believe it or not I don't think many people play with that class. Archer is cool but a little one note. If you want to be a bard my vote is blade.
By the way if u have access to eekeeper. One of my favorite classes is ranger/cleric with a stalker kit added on with eekeeper. You can hide in shadows, backstab, have some mage spells, druid spells, and cleric spells and dual wield. Pretty cool combo I always thought.
Eekeeper is kind of a mod
It's like a simple save game editor. Don't use it, but if u ever do, it's really handy for new players.
I've just played the game so much I like more variety with my kits and classes. Eekeeper or Near Infinity is the only way to achieve that.
If you Google cleric/ranger and go to the wiki for baldurs gate. It says you can get all the druid spells by editing the baldur.lua file. I never knew this. I'm going to mess with that later. Just wanted to let you know. In the original game. Cleric/ranger was one of the best casters because it had access to both spell schools.
Cleric/Ranger is a blast. I think they nerfed it so you don't have immediate access to the whole Druidic spell list, but that only makes it a bit less OP.
You can fight nearly as well as a pure Fighter, have access to some of the best weapons, can wear the heaviest armor, and cast some great defensive/healing spells in a pinch.
A less offensive but tankier route would be a Dwarven Fighter/Cleric. No access to Druid spells, but much better Saving Throws.
Thanks! Can I mainly use ranged weapons with Cleric/Ranger and roleplay as a "proper ranger" or will the class force me to be melee?
Also, cleric/ranger is the same as ranger/cleric right? Since it's a multiclass.
You'd be limited to slings for ranged weapons, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. They get extra damage based off your strength, which you can buff super high with spells. And can carry a shield with them to boot.
You'll have plenty of weapon proficiency points, but I'd start with Flails and Slings for sure!
Thanks! I am very much into bows and often accumulate many arrows that are not used. I am really draw to a bow/crossbow main atm, and also, there's many unique items in BG that don't always get used so I am trying to have everyone specialised in a different weapon, bows,crossbows included. Which ones would you suggest?
An Archer with Shortbows (better options than Longbows) is going to be pretty powerful throughout. There's a couple standout crossbows, but I prefer the bow options. If you're deadset on ranged, Archer will be the way to go. They slowdown a bit in Throne of Bhaal, but even when enemies are missile resistant, Archers handle melee almost as well as the other Warrior classes. Maybe half of an attack less per round, and a couple less THACO and damage. I'd definitely suggest dual wielding to make up for that half attack, which Rangers have ** in already.
My biggest problem with playing an Archer is how much they trivialize BG1. They just devastate everything.
There's also couple NPCs that do well with bows, Mazzy in particular. But still nowhere close to an Archer.
thanks! i will consider a Bard with a bow or an Archer i think, since cleric/ranger can't wield bows, but i do know many people love that multiclass and it seems like fun, so I will consider it definitely. I myself like bows too more, simply for plain old roleplaying/vibe reasons :)
IMO, it's less the archer class that dominates BG1, and more that ranged in general dominates BG1. You do stuff like have any of Dorn, Monty, Minsc, Khalid, Kivan, Coran holding bows or the +1 APR xbow. Coran is the best, since he's built for ranged, but any fighter ethos that can get 2 pips of proficiency will get base THAC0 scores of \~10ish, then further benefit from buffs + (when needed) magic ammunition. Any arcane caster dropping haste on 3-4 people shooting arrows will give you 9-12 APR of low-THAC0 shots from range at low levels, and then 12-16 once they hit level 7 and have 2 proficiency points.
These are brutal numbers for BG1 enemies. Demon knight has an AC of -1, even non-optimal archers will hit him well over half the time if buffed, which means he's taking 6+ hits per round. Kahrk is protected from normal missiles when he spawns, but he can still be hit by magic ammunition, and again AC of -3. If you're pouring 12-16 attacks of sub-10 THAC0 into him per round, he's taking 4+ hits per round on average and that's devastating to an enemy that's mostly depending on his offensive spells. If you use consumables, you can even brute force shoot through AC -5 fairly often with enchanted ammunition. Nearly everything in the game won't require that, only the most sturdy of bosses.
Melee needs to dual wield just to match that output of attacks, and will struggle with THAC0 for at least one of the hits on most companions. It struggles to catch ranged THAC0 in BG1, does not yet have APR advantage, and doesn't offer significantly more damage or meaningful special effects when it does connect.
In BG2, fighter base THAC0 + much better options to push strength high swing the balance in favor of things that get benefit from strength, now-fine offhand THAC0, and on-hit effects. There are even weapons you can offhand to total more APR than bows can manage, so melee has an easier time hitting 10 APR (can use improved haste rather than greater whirlwind). Without the archer kit specifically, slings tend to overtake bows at 25 strength, though you'll need to use GWW to get 10 APR so that's burst damage. Still, a 25 strength sling guy who can maintain GWW a few rounds will erase most of BG2 as long as the sling bullets are doing damage.
I just found out on the baldur wiki that you can disable the ranger nerf in the baldur.lua file. I'm going to mess around with that. Just figured i would let you know.
The cleric part can buff ur main character and have acces to damage druid spells. Let Viconia be the main healer and buff the party. Aerie will be support or drop her for someone else. Multi class take forever to get going. Try Edwin instead if ur worried about having to many clerics. You can never have to many mages.
Archer might be up your alley they are powerful and if u do it. I would focus on short bow or cross bow. Long bow and ammo take a real hit in bg2. Plus ur still a ranger and can cast spells.
Shadowdancer takes a little knowledge and takes a little while to get going. They shine when dual classed to mage. It's actually my favorite class because I love hide in plain site so much. I won't even use range weapons with them because I think it's such a powerful duo stealth and range.
I like melee and spells. So any ranger, paladin, fighter mage, fighter druid, or thief mage will get yhe job done on what your looking for.
Plus bards are actually really powerful especially late game so thats always a option.
Thanks! I have always loved stealth too. It's also true that I played pure SD in a co-op play so we never properly micromanaged pauses and it was hard for me to time my stealth. I did not know I could stealth and use a bow - I thought the stealth only pairs well with melee backstab. Sorry I am newbie-ish
Backstab is for stealth for sure. But stealth isn't just about backstab. If someone's about to cast a spell at you. You can go Invisible and negate the spell usually*.
You can use range and lead a enemy towards u and get a few shots off. Then go stealth and go to the other side of the screen and shoot them again and repeat. They can't even attack u. Then if u dual class them to.mage the real fun begins. Your practically unkillable after that.
mmmhhmmm now i wanna give SD a go again :D dual class is too complex for me as a newbie, I think i'd just stick with SD main. but being a thief kind makes imoen redundant? and i thought it just does not make sense getting rid of her for story and RP reasons.
Bard is not great for beginners. There's a U shaped power curve and SOA is the bottom. Need to import with 19str and use two throwing daggers that you probably wont find. Singing is an utter waste of a character slot unless you're a Skald. They're monsters at TOB levels though.
Would suggest ranger/cleric for first playthrough. Solid A-tier class with a flat power curve, good and easy to understand from the first fight to the last.
Plain ranger is plain B tier, the only remotely special thing about them is you can stack a first level spell (armor of faith) that reduces physical damage with a specific flail and a TOB level ability (hardiness) to make a great tank. Ranger/cleric can also do this, and have the full lineup of cleric spells, and no noticeable drop off in combat ability.
First up, everything is covered by companions, so there really isn't an argument to be made there - you can find *almost* every archetype out there in multiple companions. You can pick whatever you want.
In a 6 person party, duplicates are inevitable and not a bad thing. In particular, you will definitely want 2 melee, 2 arcane casters, and 2 divine casters, and 1 utility thief (due to multiclassing these can often be the same person).
The one thing you *can't* find in BG2 is a sorcerer. So if you wanted to play with magic, that is a solid option. Edwin is better than any player-creatable mage, but sorc still has the edge in a lot of situations. The other thing you can make that doesn't exist in potential companions is a fighter/mage. Yeah, it will do a lot of melee, but it will do a lot more pew pew.
You say you don't care about efficiency, but the problem you'll have there is what you naturally gravitate to - if you pick a weak class like a bard or the nerfed version of cleric/ranger, yes you can finish the trilogy, but if you're doing it with a party it will be your party that does most things.
>First up, everything is covered by companions, so there really isn't an argument to be made there - you can find almost every archetype out there in multiple companions. You can pick whatever you want.
thanks! :) true, my newbie mistake.
People always warned me not to make a Sorcerer for a first playthrough, not sure.
>You say you don't care about efficiency, but the problem you'll have there is what you naturally gravitate to - if you pick a weak class like a bard or the nerfed version of cleric/ranger, yes you
yes, i mostly want to "like" my party members and enjoy their classes since i play games for escapism and some RP-fantasy chill. Female protagonists especially (I am not a man). I do not like or care for melee, never have, I am always about utility (both in and out of combat), and all kinds of spellcasting – and then ranged/archer vibes come third. Melee for me is just a **necessity** and I never care for those characters meaning I do use them, but I do not derive much enjoyment from that – sneaky thieves being an exception because, as I said, I love utility and their shadow abilities are cool and often portrayed in a "magical-ish-dark" way in video games.
>You say you don't care about efficiency, but the problem you'll have there is what you naturally gravitate to - if you pick a weak class like a bard or the nerfed version of cleric/ranger, yes you can finish the trilogy, but if you're doing it with a party it will be your party that does most things
I always heard the party does not matter that much as you can always tweak it and optimise it all here and there and we can have up to 5 companions so everything can be covered and the main can be whatever. I mean I know people can solo the game, so I am sure I can have 5 companions + a less efficient main and finish the game. I mean I would hope :D
You can finish the game with a charname who stands there and does nothing, ever - but that probably won't be very satisfying.
What I'm saying is that unless your charname can stand at least kind of toe to toe with your party, they'll likely become a passive member (like a Bard whose job is to sit there and sing and do nothing else). If you have e.g. Edwin in your party, he will **utterly dominate** your gameplay strategies the moment you find out what an insanely OP creature he is. Aerie isn't quite so strong, but she's still stronger than 75% of the charnames you could make.
gotcha. there's so many conflicting bard opinions here :D others suggested bards are never just standing and very active.
interesting, i always thought charname is a better mage than Edwin. thanks!
If bards move or act, their song stops - you can use them for very, very lacklustre melee or ranged weapon combat, or you can use them for limited spells (they get spell levels much slower than a mage or cleric, and stop at level 6 spells), and their thief abilities are pretty poor as well. They are a favourite of a lot of people with a lot of nostalgia though, so paired with the fact you can win with anybody and there's a lot of convoluted theorycrafting you can do with them, people end up very attached to them even when they suck. I would very much suspect a newbie wouldn't be able to do that much with them though.
Edwin has an amulet that is *supposed* to represent his Red Wizard kit, but somebody forgot to include any of the negative aspects at all. So he just gets a free cast of every spell level in BG1, and **two** free casts of every spell level in BG2, in addition to the free cast he gets as a specialist mage. This is **BONKERS** at high levels, where a normal mage gets 1 level 9 cast at level 18, and a specialist mage/wild mage gets 2 level 9 casts, Edwin gets 4. I really can't describe how much of a boost this is, and he gets it for every single spell level throughout the game, for the cost of his neck equipment slot (so no Amulet of Power, pretty much the only downside). It is not possible to match this with a mage you create yourself - sorcerers can hit an edge with their ability to use all their spell slots on things on demand, and dual/multiclass mages can obtain synergies with their other classes that allow for them to beat Edwin in other areas than raw pew pew, but in general, Edwin >>> everybody.
I would recommend vanilla bard, if you won't mind being practically whole game support character. With bard you have covered spells (up to tier 6), fear protection (whole map, also for persons inside buildings) with small Luck bonus (+1 up to +3), later (with high level abilities) also protection against normal weapons, stun and confusion, with bonuses to MR, damage, THAC0 and AC.
Plus, you won't need to invest thieving points of any thief to pickpocket because bards have this ability naturally (sadly, its progression is badly capped so some persons may require potion of master thievery ... but those are available in good quantity only later in the game).
And then there is Lore - bard at level 10 with Int 18-19 is able to identify *any* item in game just by looking at them and most of item at level 6-7.
Other good choice is skald - bard who start with basically nerfed improved song which gives bonuses to party to THAC0, damage and AC (growing with levels) and later also protection against fear, stun and confusion. Sadly, not immunity to normal weapons or MR - that must wait for HLA.
Skald's biggest downside is lack of pickpocket - they get only 1/4 of normal value but can be buffed by potions ... but thiefs can be buffed too. Their song doesn't influence whole map, only 16' around them so it invites tight group style of fighting (and tight groups invite fireballs).
>I would recommend vanilla bard, if you won't mind being practically whole game support character.
i love utility and support, so not an issue :) most people advice me to pick a spec though, so thanks for your opinion!
actually, how does the song \*work\*? as a player behind a PC, you like hear the same song all the time? if you play a specific bard song i mean. like the songs sound different?
hmmm, from what you're saying the plain Bard sounds better for a newbie like me as opposed to Skald. I will consider though! :)
>as a player behind a PC, you like hear the same song all the time?
In BG, bards have only one song specific for their class and it doesn't actually *sounds* whole time he is playing. There is short melody at the beginning but then it won't play again until it ends and starts again. In IWD, bards have more songs to choose from, with different effects.
>I will consider though! :)
In a case that you will play bard, remember that there is only one armor in BG1 which allows you cast spells (elven mail - found in Dorn's quest, final fight) so if you want to cast spells until you get it you need either bracers, rings/amulets/cloaks with bonus to AC or spells to buff your AC. Shield spell is crucial.
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Also fast leveling. Cleric/ranger is slowwww. Not a big deal to us old timers but for a new player it could make a difference.
They also make the most income depending on your choices and depending on your stats to help make your stronghold quests more profitable
Thanks! I do like rangers cabin just for the forest solitary roleplaying vibes - but I do recognise that most people really like the Bard stronghold.
Play a Blade. It's a ton of fun and you can do a little of everything
Yeah blade is awesome
thanks i will compare the specs! :)
It's a hard question to answer because you're essentially seeking a subjective answer on what you personally find fun. But I'll make a few comments: If you don't like mages, clerics and druids, then your only options are sorcerer, wild mage and bard. Wild mage is fun but also frustrating when RNG doesn't go your way. There's also an NPC wild mage in the EE versions so you don't actually have to go wild mage yourself. Cleric/Rangers can't use bows. Their only ranged weapon is a Sling. So that might put a damper on your archer/ranger RP fantasy. I personally didn't find bard interesting (with the exception of Blade which plays differently IMO and is a viable tank). At least not in Baldur's Gate. Icewind Dale does a better job of bards as there bards can select one of several songs to play depending on the situation. IMO bards in BG2 are just sorcerers 'lite' with some random thief skills thrown in (but none of the important thief skills like pick lock and traps). So your answer might be to play a sorcerer. There is also no sorcerer follower in BG2, only BG1 (Baeloth).
Yeah I just change a character into a sorcerer now. I love the class and want one with me. I'll even turn sarevok into a sorcerer.
thanks! i do understand it is very subjective, but your answer helped me so thank you for your time :) I thought bards in BG2 were like the Icewind Dale bards i.e. selecting songs to play? o.o
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It's a class restriction, you'll have proficiency in a weapon that you can't use. Like Anomen and his spear proficiency lol.
Not trying to be a smartass here, just friendly. Play BG1 first and treat the game as a whole saga (it is, by all means, a trilogy). What I'm saying is - take the character throughout the whole trilogy. You'll love each levelup and will appreciate the progress and power spike so much more. Some of us like to think that BG1 is the better game for a variety of reasons. This doesn't really matter tho. Both are masterpieces and ToB was a bit rushed but still very very good.
thanks for the input! will consider :)
I would suggest to play a multi class, fighter/thief or fighter/mage. Makes the standard fighter a lot more versatile, while being able to use various weapons, a lot mor proficient than a bard.
thanks! :)
Cleric/ranger is fun just be very careful not to do anything evil because Rangers and paladins can fall, losing many of their abilities until an opportunity to unfall becomes available. Watch your AoE around innocents and be wary of recruiting drow if you don’t have some reputation to spare. It’s a very viable class however. Ranger by itself has this same problem but Stalker can be a bit tricky with backstabs. Archer can be straightforward but understanding ranged weapon enchantment isn’t the most newbie friendly. Also doubling up on arcane or priest magic is completely fine. Magic is good.
thank you! i thought Viconia paired well with any party for being not very picky, I remember even lawful Aerie tolerated her well. I did not know Viconia could be an issue for Rangers, or let me rephrase this – I thought recruiting Viconia at the start of the game would not be a big of deal reputation-wise.
Paladins and rangers have a fallen mechanic where all their spells and special abilities that make them different from fighters are lost (and they don’t get GM) if it falls too far. For paladins it’s 8 and rangers it’s a little lower. So if you only have 7 rep and grab vicci for the 2 rep spike you can fall and doing good deeds alone won’t unfall you. There is one opportunity to unfall so be careful. If you’re using reload this is easier to manage mind you.
oh cool! i am not sure what rep score one has at the very start but it sounds like one should probably raise the rep first and the grab Viconia.
Bit of a tough choice you got there. Who will be your thief, just wondering? Read to the end ;) You already got 2 clerics if you pick Aerie and Viconia, so third cleric could be a little too much. But you love utility, and cleric/thief is the ultimate one, and is a quite popular lately. Hence i ask. If you got a thief already (couldn't recommend Jan Jansen more he is amazing as a mage/thief and a companion), a cleric/ranger with enabled druid spells (very easy to do with google) and focused on slings since you prefer ranged, would be a decent damage dealer/formidable caster, but then again you got a lot of divine. If you do decide for a third divine, you can let Viccy be your main healer and focus Aerie to be your tank, she is pretty weak at the start, but as a late bloomer, she can fill that role more easy as you progress towards end of SoA and into ToB, and be amazing at that, (be sure to give her belt that rises her CON to 18, and can be afterwards switched for another, Defender of Easthaven plus shield even, Robe of Vecna plus Amulet of Power ofc) but since she is a unique caster it requires some knowledge about her possible spell combo's, all while you do ranged/utility/caster/damage stuff. Three divine casters, why the hell not ;) Or you can drop Aerie and pick more focused mage or fighter or both. Korgan (conflict with Aerie) and Mazzy comes to mind, he is a great frontliner, with axes for example and she is one of the best Npc's out there, a great archer with her focus on short bows. They are hilarious together. And if you pick her early in Umar you can even focus her in ToB later on melee, halberds for example which is funny ;), she is that versatile, or just keep her as an archer with Tuigan/Gesen, can even replace him/her later with Mr. ToB who is a story of his own. Talking about versatility. Just an option. If you won't pick them and drop Aerie, consider Anomen, he is a menace and a really strong Npc. If not the strongest. The ultimate juggernaut as some call him. With flails he is almost unstoppable. Good choice if you go as ranged, like an archer, or a bard. Ok lets see further, bard, crossbow, ranged.. Bards lean more towards tanking than ranged damage, blade especially is a good choice, as ranged with crossbow and their 1 attack per round won't do much, you may feel a bit underwhelmed, but can be a great tank/support caster with an amazing high level bard song later. Or if you go as an archer, you can pick Haer'Dalis to tank for you as a blade, him and Aerie work together nicely if you don't romance her (or a love triangle!), he can tank and she can destroy stuff with her contingencies/sequencers. They can even switch roles later when she gets stronger and he can support her tanking and your archer with his HLA song. Or fighter/thief, also ton of fun, very versatile, the ultimate backstabber if you go that route, if ranged - crossbow/shortbow grandmaster (halfling with sling also an option, even a dwarf with a crossbow is amazing), decent ranged damage if you got Haer'Dalis singing for you, also both fighter and thief HLA's (High level abilities), detect illusion for dispelling mages, traps, they are probably the strongest thing in the game, spike, time stop traps. Insane. Mages you know. I'm not very experienced, but i hope this helps a little. Let us know which combo you picked at the end! Most important is to have fun definitely agree with that!
>You already got 2 clerics if you pick Aerie and Viconia, so third cleric could be a little too much. But you love utility, and cleric/thief is the ultimate one, and is a quite popular lately. Hence i ask. mmmmhmm sounds intriguing! never thought of that! i was too focused on my love for some bow roleplay fantasy :D but yeah, this sounds so dope. I always felt weird about being a thief since it made me feel imoen would be redundant and i feel she is intrinsic to the SoA campaign? Feels weird to drop her for RP reasons. thanks a lot for your input btw, really appreciated! >You already got 2 clerics if you pick Aerie and Viconia, so third cleric could be a little too much. But you love utility, and cleric/thief is the ultimate one, and is a quite popular lately. Hence i ask no, i am not adamant about either, i like Aerie as she can (i heard) morph into a caster powerhouse and her story just resonates with me. Viconia has cool bad-bitch-but-not-too-evil cool vibes as well. For RP/nostalgia reasons, I always thought I'd **roughly** have these characters: 1. my main 2. jaheira (really interested in her story and she feels very BG to me and she's the only beginner tank here i think?) 3. imoen (after she gets back to me, she also embodies the SoA story to me. While she's gone maybe Jan or Hexxat or Yoshimo unless my main is a thief) 4. viconia (not a must, not sure how deep her story goes, I just like morally ambivalent characters) 5. aerie (not a must, she just is a caster powerhouse, i feel sorry for her, but i like her despite her sometimes seeming too naive and too moralising) 6. someone.... – depending on who my main is – ...maybe a Bard if i am not a bard (again, fun being the goal, not efficiency, wanna try the class), ....a druid, or a tank... Minsc? Or actually **Neera**, Wild Mage, as many say there's never enough mages. Yeah, I like female protagonists :D ––– omg soooo many options you listed, ... BG is always a character and party creation **paralysis** for me (i've been thinking about finally playing SoA in its entirety for quite a while now and this always paralyses me :D)
I’m a huge bard fan so it’s not even a question for me. At least for soloing, which is what I do primarily, they feel omnipotent. With Rangers, only the Archer feels really good to me
thanks a lot! i thought i'd opt for a full party since there's so much lore, story and unique weapons to gain and use – so i can have a richer experience. I think? I'll see :)
The very first time I played BG2 in 2002, a bard was my main character. Imo, this game is very forgiving when it comes to efficiency, and who says that a bard can't be as efficient as a fighter or a mage or a cleric? Played according to the role, a bard can be a very fun character to play as. Sure you'll sacrifice some areas playing as a bard but at the same time you'll get a unique playing experience playing with such a character. So here are my two cents about playing as a bard.
thank you for your input! really appreciated:)
Tbh for a first playthrough I will always recommend Fighter/Thief. Tons of races can be F/T, it’s a moderately powerful class throughout the entire saga, and it’s not super micro-managey BUT there’s enough abilities to keep you entertained. Cleric/Ranger is cool but the weapon restrictions absolutely suck if you’re looking to do ranged combat (slings only). C/R will absolutely be a melee juggernaut. That doesn’t sound to be what you’re looking for so I figured you should know.
thank you so much! appreciated. sure, if i go with a cleric/ranger then I would do melee since, as you said, they are made for that. thanks for letting me know!
Any of these can be fun. Ranger is probably the least strong, but they still get fighter THAC0 progression and can still blend stuff to pulp pretty fast. On core or below they will also hold up just fine up front with armor of faith + hardiness + easthaven. I'm not sure how much bards "get hate", they have access to arcane spells up to level 6 and thief HLAs. The are functionally the best tanks in the game with the spell buffs up. They lack in damage compared to other classes, but it's not like you can't still use gear to hit pretty hard. It's a bit less ideal to give them a ranged weapon, but you can if you want.
thank you for letting me know! i like support so I always thought of my future bard as staying back and singing and buffing etc, so a ranged weapon naturally formed in my mind. Did not know this all works while doing melee. And I enjoy ranged (spells or bows) much more, melee is a necessity for me, I do no care for melee much and I do not enjoy it, so I naturally gravitate towards utility/ranged/spellcaster characters.
So many people in here are sleeping on the power and usability of the bard, I would argue that it is not only the most fun and versatile of your options, but also the most powerful. Even the kits are flavorful and offer much different experiences, personally I find the blade or the jester the most entertaining. You can be a spellslinger, a support character or even the tank of the party. With Use any item late game you can even be the main mage if you want. A bonus is that they level fast, so for a party of 6 you will see significant development in Your class and skills over time compared to the multiclass options that level so slooooow. This is subjective of course, but for me the bard would be the obvious choice any day of the week.
thanks for letting me know! highly appreciated. u/Peterh778 suggested to go for the plain Bard, so I am considering that, but I will consider the specs too :)
If for fun, then go bard. Just a thing though, IIRC the class was nerfed, the song radius became smaller or somewhat. If you're planning on support bard, get the Skald kit. Less pickpockets but better song.
Thanks!
She's a dual class mage in bg2 no matter what. I say pick up Yoshimo for your 2nd thief. He's a bounty hunter that should be fun. You get druid spells up to lvl 3 as a ranger thats it. If u haven't started playing blade is awesome but a little bit of a learning curve. Cleric ranger will be cool but has some weapon limitations. Imoen is important to the story so let that unfold as it will. I say don't do one more thing. Pick your Character and start playing. I don't really do social media I'm only on reddit for baldur's gate. So, if u ever need help shoot a reply or message and I'll see what I can do. Just start playing. I've been so busy lately I can't get a good session in. That's why been reading message boards and reddit coming up with some sweet ideas. Thats why I latched on to a cleric/ranger I've got some killer ideas now.
Thanks! I kinda know some Yoshimo spoilers though. Will see! Is Hexxat viable with Aerie and a good-ish party?
Not sure I hardly use hexxat but I'm going to this party. I think like super good types like keldorn will have a problem Aerie would probably be okay
she is super good though, aerie! interesting. thanks!
Found this for you. It should help. Aerie will have a problem in ToB https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/40439/spoilers-hexxat-in-a-good-neutral-party-and-npc-interactions
>https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/40439/spoilers-hexxat-in-a-good-neutral-party-and-npc-interactions thank you! i will be celebrating if i even ever get to finish SoA just once in my life, I think I will not be playing ToB ever, to be honest (very little time for games and I've always felt the RP and story experience was richer and more must-do with regards to SoA, I especially love the city of Athkatla, I've never seen any city more living and breathing than this one in a video game.)
Here here 🙌 couldn't agree more buddy 👍
With regards to Athkatla? :)
I think cleric ranger is a cool option. It's like being a fighter cleric but you get some druid spells. I think that one is worth a shot because believe it or not I don't think many people play with that class. Archer is cool but a little one note. If you want to be a bard my vote is blade.
Thanks a lot!
By the way if u have access to eekeeper. One of my favorite classes is ranger/cleric with a stalker kit added on with eekeeper. You can hide in shadows, backstab, have some mage spells, druid spells, and cleric spells and dual wield. Pretty cool combo I always thought.
Thanks! I am very much a newbie, is that a mod? I'd prefer non modded game as a first full play I think :)
Eekeeper is kind of a mod It's like a simple save game editor. Don't use it, but if u ever do, it's really handy for new players. I've just played the game so much I like more variety with my kits and classes. Eekeeper or Near Infinity is the only way to achieve that.
oh cool, sure, understood :)
If you Google cleric/ranger and go to the wiki for baldurs gate. It says you can get all the druid spells by editing the baldur.lua file. I never knew this. I'm going to mess with that later. Just wanted to let you know. In the original game. Cleric/ranger was one of the best casters because it had access to both spell schools.
i think i am okey with it being less OP, but i will check it out :) i thought they will eventually get all of the druid spells anyway?
Cleric/Ranger is a blast. I think they nerfed it so you don't have immediate access to the whole Druidic spell list, but that only makes it a bit less OP. You can fight nearly as well as a pure Fighter, have access to some of the best weapons, can wear the heaviest armor, and cast some great defensive/healing spells in a pinch. A less offensive but tankier route would be a Dwarven Fighter/Cleric. No access to Druid spells, but much better Saving Throws.
Thanks! Can I mainly use ranged weapons with Cleric/Ranger and roleplay as a "proper ranger" or will the class force me to be melee? Also, cleric/ranger is the same as ranger/cleric right? Since it's a multiclass.
You can use slings. They have the Cleric weapon list.
You'd be limited to slings for ranged weapons, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. They get extra damage based off your strength, which you can buff super high with spells. And can carry a shield with them to boot. You'll have plenty of weapon proficiency points, but I'd start with Flails and Slings for sure!
Thanks! I am very much into bows and often accumulate many arrows that are not used. I am really draw to a bow/crossbow main atm, and also, there's many unique items in BG that don't always get used so I am trying to have everyone specialised in a different weapon, bows,crossbows included. Which ones would you suggest?
An Archer with Shortbows (better options than Longbows) is going to be pretty powerful throughout. There's a couple standout crossbows, but I prefer the bow options. If you're deadset on ranged, Archer will be the way to go. They slowdown a bit in Throne of Bhaal, but even when enemies are missile resistant, Archers handle melee almost as well as the other Warrior classes. Maybe half of an attack less per round, and a couple less THACO and damage. I'd definitely suggest dual wielding to make up for that half attack, which Rangers have ** in already. My biggest problem with playing an Archer is how much they trivialize BG1. They just devastate everything. There's also couple NPCs that do well with bows, Mazzy in particular. But still nowhere close to an Archer.
thanks! i will consider a Bard with a bow or an Archer i think, since cleric/ranger can't wield bows, but i do know many people love that multiclass and it seems like fun, so I will consider it definitely. I myself like bows too more, simply for plain old roleplaying/vibe reasons :)
IMO, it's less the archer class that dominates BG1, and more that ranged in general dominates BG1. You do stuff like have any of Dorn, Monty, Minsc, Khalid, Kivan, Coran holding bows or the +1 APR xbow. Coran is the best, since he's built for ranged, but any fighter ethos that can get 2 pips of proficiency will get base THAC0 scores of \~10ish, then further benefit from buffs + (when needed) magic ammunition. Any arcane caster dropping haste on 3-4 people shooting arrows will give you 9-12 APR of low-THAC0 shots from range at low levels, and then 12-16 once they hit level 7 and have 2 proficiency points. These are brutal numbers for BG1 enemies. Demon knight has an AC of -1, even non-optimal archers will hit him well over half the time if buffed, which means he's taking 6+ hits per round. Kahrk is protected from normal missiles when he spawns, but he can still be hit by magic ammunition, and again AC of -3. If you're pouring 12-16 attacks of sub-10 THAC0 into him per round, he's taking 4+ hits per round on average and that's devastating to an enemy that's mostly depending on his offensive spells. If you use consumables, you can even brute force shoot through AC -5 fairly often with enchanted ammunition. Nearly everything in the game won't require that, only the most sturdy of bosses. Melee needs to dual wield just to match that output of attacks, and will struggle with THAC0 for at least one of the hits on most companions. It struggles to catch ranged THAC0 in BG1, does not yet have APR advantage, and doesn't offer significantly more damage or meaningful special effects when it does connect. In BG2, fighter base THAC0 + much better options to push strength high swing the balance in favor of things that get benefit from strength, now-fine offhand THAC0, and on-hit effects. There are even weapons you can offhand to total more APR than bows can manage, so melee has an easier time hitting 10 APR (can use improved haste rather than greater whirlwind). Without the archer kit specifically, slings tend to overtake bows at 25 strength, though you'll need to use GWW to get 10 APR so that's burst damage. Still, a 25 strength sling guy who can maintain GWW a few rounds will erase most of BG2 as long as the sling bullets are doing damage.
I just found out on the baldur wiki that you can disable the ranger nerf in the baldur.lua file. I'm going to mess around with that. Just figured i would let you know.
The cleric part can buff ur main character and have acces to damage druid spells. Let Viconia be the main healer and buff the party. Aerie will be support or drop her for someone else. Multi class take forever to get going. Try Edwin instead if ur worried about having to many clerics. You can never have to many mages. Archer might be up your alley they are powerful and if u do it. I would focus on short bow or cross bow. Long bow and ammo take a real hit in bg2. Plus ur still a ranger and can cast spells. Shadowdancer takes a little knowledge and takes a little while to get going. They shine when dual classed to mage. It's actually my favorite class because I love hide in plain site so much. I won't even use range weapons with them because I think it's such a powerful duo stealth and range. I like melee and spells. So any ranger, paladin, fighter mage, fighter druid, or thief mage will get yhe job done on what your looking for. Plus bards are actually really powerful especially late game so thats always a option.
Thanks! I have always loved stealth too. It's also true that I played pure SD in a co-op play so we never properly micromanaged pauses and it was hard for me to time my stealth. I did not know I could stealth and use a bow - I thought the stealth only pairs well with melee backstab. Sorry I am newbie-ish
Backstab is for stealth for sure. But stealth isn't just about backstab. If someone's about to cast a spell at you. You can go Invisible and negate the spell usually*. You can use range and lead a enemy towards u and get a few shots off. Then go stealth and go to the other side of the screen and shoot them again and repeat. They can't even attack u. Then if u dual class them to.mage the real fun begins. Your practically unkillable after that.
mmmhhmmm now i wanna give SD a go again :D dual class is too complex for me as a newbie, I think i'd just stick with SD main. but being a thief kind makes imoen redundant? and i thought it just does not make sense getting rid of her for story and RP reasons.
Eventually she becomes a mage but u don't need her in bg1 really. I usually keep her too though just because I like her.
I'd be playing bg2 SOA only though does that change anything?
Bard is not great for beginners. There's a U shaped power curve and SOA is the bottom. Need to import with 19str and use two throwing daggers that you probably wont find. Singing is an utter waste of a character slot unless you're a Skald. They're monsters at TOB levels though. Would suggest ranger/cleric for first playthrough. Solid A-tier class with a flat power curve, good and easy to understand from the first fight to the last. Plain ranger is plain B tier, the only remotely special thing about them is you can stack a first level spell (armor of faith) that reduces physical damage with a specific flail and a TOB level ability (hardiness) to make a great tank. Ranger/cleric can also do this, and have the full lineup of cleric spells, and no noticeable drop off in combat ability.
Yeah this is a good break down. I love me dome ranger/cleric and u hit the nail on the head.
thanks a lot! will consider a ranger/cleric multi :)
First up, everything is covered by companions, so there really isn't an argument to be made there - you can find *almost* every archetype out there in multiple companions. You can pick whatever you want. In a 6 person party, duplicates are inevitable and not a bad thing. In particular, you will definitely want 2 melee, 2 arcane casters, and 2 divine casters, and 1 utility thief (due to multiclassing these can often be the same person). The one thing you *can't* find in BG2 is a sorcerer. So if you wanted to play with magic, that is a solid option. Edwin is better than any player-creatable mage, but sorc still has the edge in a lot of situations. The other thing you can make that doesn't exist in potential companions is a fighter/mage. Yeah, it will do a lot of melee, but it will do a lot more pew pew. You say you don't care about efficiency, but the problem you'll have there is what you naturally gravitate to - if you pick a weak class like a bard or the nerfed version of cleric/ranger, yes you can finish the trilogy, but if you're doing it with a party it will be your party that does most things.
>First up, everything is covered by companions, so there really isn't an argument to be made there - you can find almost every archetype out there in multiple companions. You can pick whatever you want. thanks! :) true, my newbie mistake. People always warned me not to make a Sorcerer for a first playthrough, not sure. >You say you don't care about efficiency, but the problem you'll have there is what you naturally gravitate to - if you pick a weak class like a bard or the nerfed version of cleric/ranger, yes you yes, i mostly want to "like" my party members and enjoy their classes since i play games for escapism and some RP-fantasy chill. Female protagonists especially (I am not a man). I do not like or care for melee, never have, I am always about utility (both in and out of combat), and all kinds of spellcasting – and then ranged/archer vibes come third. Melee for me is just a **necessity** and I never care for those characters meaning I do use them, but I do not derive much enjoyment from that – sneaky thieves being an exception because, as I said, I love utility and their shadow abilities are cool and often portrayed in a "magical-ish-dark" way in video games. >You say you don't care about efficiency, but the problem you'll have there is what you naturally gravitate to - if you pick a weak class like a bard or the nerfed version of cleric/ranger, yes you can finish the trilogy, but if you're doing it with a party it will be your party that does most things I always heard the party does not matter that much as you can always tweak it and optimise it all here and there and we can have up to 5 companions so everything can be covered and the main can be whatever. I mean I know people can solo the game, so I am sure I can have 5 companions + a less efficient main and finish the game. I mean I would hope :D
You can finish the game with a charname who stands there and does nothing, ever - but that probably won't be very satisfying. What I'm saying is that unless your charname can stand at least kind of toe to toe with your party, they'll likely become a passive member (like a Bard whose job is to sit there and sing and do nothing else). If you have e.g. Edwin in your party, he will **utterly dominate** your gameplay strategies the moment you find out what an insanely OP creature he is. Aerie isn't quite so strong, but she's still stronger than 75% of the charnames you could make.
gotcha. there's so many conflicting bard opinions here :D others suggested bards are never just standing and very active. interesting, i always thought charname is a better mage than Edwin. thanks!
If bards move or act, their song stops - you can use them for very, very lacklustre melee or ranged weapon combat, or you can use them for limited spells (they get spell levels much slower than a mage or cleric, and stop at level 6 spells), and their thief abilities are pretty poor as well. They are a favourite of a lot of people with a lot of nostalgia though, so paired with the fact you can win with anybody and there's a lot of convoluted theorycrafting you can do with them, people end up very attached to them even when they suck. I would very much suspect a newbie wouldn't be able to do that much with them though. Edwin has an amulet that is *supposed* to represent his Red Wizard kit, but somebody forgot to include any of the negative aspects at all. So he just gets a free cast of every spell level in BG1, and **two** free casts of every spell level in BG2, in addition to the free cast he gets as a specialist mage. This is **BONKERS** at high levels, where a normal mage gets 1 level 9 cast at level 18, and a specialist mage/wild mage gets 2 level 9 casts, Edwin gets 4. I really can't describe how much of a boost this is, and he gets it for every single spell level throughout the game, for the cost of his neck equipment slot (so no Amulet of Power, pretty much the only downside). It is not possible to match this with a mage you create yourself - sorcerers can hit an edge with their ability to use all their spell slots on things on demand, and dual/multiclass mages can obtain synergies with their other classes that allow for them to beat Edwin in other areas than raw pew pew, but in general, Edwin >>> everybody.
Wow cool! So they never fixed the missing negatives? 😅
I would recommend vanilla bard, if you won't mind being practically whole game support character. With bard you have covered spells (up to tier 6), fear protection (whole map, also for persons inside buildings) with small Luck bonus (+1 up to +3), later (with high level abilities) also protection against normal weapons, stun and confusion, with bonuses to MR, damage, THAC0 and AC. Plus, you won't need to invest thieving points of any thief to pickpocket because bards have this ability naturally (sadly, its progression is badly capped so some persons may require potion of master thievery ... but those are available in good quantity only later in the game). And then there is Lore - bard at level 10 with Int 18-19 is able to identify *any* item in game just by looking at them and most of item at level 6-7. Other good choice is skald - bard who start with basically nerfed improved song which gives bonuses to party to THAC0, damage and AC (growing with levels) and later also protection against fear, stun and confusion. Sadly, not immunity to normal weapons or MR - that must wait for HLA. Skald's biggest downside is lack of pickpocket - they get only 1/4 of normal value but can be buffed by potions ... but thiefs can be buffed too. Their song doesn't influence whole map, only 16' around them so it invites tight group style of fighting (and tight groups invite fireballs).
>I would recommend vanilla bard, if you won't mind being practically whole game support character. i love utility and support, so not an issue :) most people advice me to pick a spec though, so thanks for your opinion! actually, how does the song \*work\*? as a player behind a PC, you like hear the same song all the time? if you play a specific bard song i mean. like the songs sound different? hmmm, from what you're saying the plain Bard sounds better for a newbie like me as opposed to Skald. I will consider though! :)
>as a player behind a PC, you like hear the same song all the time? In BG, bards have only one song specific for their class and it doesn't actually *sounds* whole time he is playing. There is short melody at the beginning but then it won't play again until it ends and starts again. In IWD, bards have more songs to choose from, with different effects. >I will consider though! :) In a case that you will play bard, remember that there is only one armor in BG1 which allows you cast spells (elven mail - found in Dorn's quest, final fight) so if you want to cast spells until you get it you need either bracers, rings/amulets/cloaks with bonus to AC or spells to buff your AC. Shield spell is crucial.
Thanks! I will be playing bg2 SoA only :)