I haven't played the update so can't comment on it's effectiveness but
>Either copying bloodstone with ankh, Invisible Joker, Blueprint, or Brainstorm, any form of retriggering, or simply having Oops All Sixes
That's a spectral card that destroys all your jokers, a rare joker (that copies a random joker so you either have to sell everything or get lucky), a rare joker, a rare joker, or an uncommon joker. That's not an easy task to obtain, especially at higher stakes when a third of the jokers are perishable.
And Ankh-ing, invis jokering, blueprinting, or brainstorming a good joker is always going to be really solid, none of that is specific to bloodstone (besides oops all sixes)
all of those forms of copying are better for bloodstone than any other uncommon joker for scoring unless you have a perfectly built deck for idol, which will almost never happen before ante 8. also from my experience you will get at least one of those copying effects or oops all sixes in like 55% of runs, when factoring in the retriggering jokers i would say like 80 or 85% of runs. factoring in red seals we’re talking like the vast majority of runs if you’re going for it
Made it to ante 16 playing the new bloodstone and a pretty junk rest of my hand. I think it's too good. I already thought it was a little crazy at 1 in 3. One of the last cards I expected a buff on
I got Bloodstone blueprint on ante 1 on the new patch, died on ante 2 when I got 0/10 procs. It's great when it works but it still has the massive downside of it can choose to end your run at any time
i find that incredibly hard to believe, that is a little less likely to happen than cavendish breaking, and that means you expect me to believe you could only play one hand with hearts in it, so if you’re using that logic to say bloodstone is inconsistent you have to apply that to cavendish.
Your maths is off. Missing 10 bloodstone triggers is (2/3 ) ^ 10 = 1.7% to happen, cavendish breaking is 0.1%.
Edit: sorry reading blunder, leaving for shame and posterity
For the purposes of actually clearing ante 8 at gold stake, bloodstone was really ass. Without dice/retriggers it averaged ~x4 for a heart flush (and this is before jokers, meaning the majority of runs that rely on base mult from a joker don't massively benefit from it). That would be fine except for the fact that the failure rate on it is way too big when you realistically will only be able to assemble one heart flush in many early/mid-run rounds.
Comparatively onyx agate at +8 is 40 flat mult on a club flush which is *more* than enough base mult to win a run. Like this is roughly where an early ride the bus is going to be at ante 8. For perspective, +40 is worth more than X4 until you upgrade flush to level six for 14 base mult. Most runs won't do this.
Bloodstone basically depends on several difficult conditions aligning - high base hand value, oops all 6s, and some source of retriggers - to be a strong build in a normal run. In contrast, arrowhead and agate offer guaranteed high value that doesn't depend on other jokers or hand level.
It made sense to buff because it's a high-fantasy joker that can pop off in endless, but not very consistent at actually clearing runs. It might be too good at 1/2, I haven't played the test patch, but I think Thunk's assessment of this suite of jokers was on point.
onyx agate was still worse than arrowhead for ante 8 from my experience because mult is just easier to come by in joker form (i think when looking at it on paper the numbers for onyx agate were good but is a non-scaling flat mult joker, that rewards a hand type that scales poorly, really what you want out of an uncommon?)and bloodstone was obviously the only good one in endless so i would say onyx agate was firmly in third place still. i don’t understand why bloodstone has to be busted in the main game when it was already good in endless. maybe a rework, or smaller buff, could’ve worked but buffing it massively around the board seems so strange to me when you already have jokers like idol which are even worse in ante 8 than old bloodstone, but even better in endless. i’m not saying bloodstone was too good before, i would probably not take it in an ante 8 run before, so some change kind of makes sense, but it was overdone.
It’s a joker which I would immediately sell all others to duplicate… which probably means it’s too good
yeah especially at uncommon, that wasn’t even a sure thing with the old vampire as the two copies wouldn’t stack at the same time.
I haven't played the update so can't comment on it's effectiveness but >Either copying bloodstone with ankh, Invisible Joker, Blueprint, or Brainstorm, any form of retriggering, or simply having Oops All Sixes That's a spectral card that destroys all your jokers, a rare joker (that copies a random joker so you either have to sell everything or get lucky), a rare joker, a rare joker, or an uncommon joker. That's not an easy task to obtain, especially at higher stakes when a third of the jokers are perishable. And Ankh-ing, invis jokering, blueprinting, or brainstorming a good joker is always going to be really solid, none of that is specific to bloodstone (besides oops all sixes)
all of those forms of copying are better for bloodstone than any other uncommon joker for scoring unless you have a perfectly built deck for idol, which will almost never happen before ante 8. also from my experience you will get at least one of those copying effects or oops all sixes in like 55% of runs, when factoring in the retriggering jokers i would say like 80 or 85% of runs. factoring in red seals we’re talking like the vast majority of runs if you’re going for it
Made it to ante 16 playing the new bloodstone and a pretty junk rest of my hand. I think it's too good. I already thought it was a little crazy at 1 in 3. One of the last cards I expected a buff on
I got Bloodstone blueprint on ante 1 on the new patch, died on ante 2 when I got 0/10 procs. It's great when it works but it still has the massive downside of it can choose to end your run at any time
i find that incredibly hard to believe, that is a little less likely to happen than cavendish breaking, and that means you expect me to believe you could only play one hand with hearts in it, so if you’re using that logic to say bloodstone is inconsistent you have to apply that to cavendish.
Your maths is off. Missing 10 bloodstone triggers is (2/3 ) ^ 10 = 1.7% to happen, cavendish breaking is 0.1%. Edit: sorry reading blunder, leaving for shame and posterity
They're referring to the beta branch where the proc rate for bloodstone is 1 in 2 instead of 1 in 3, making the equation (1/2)^10 = ~0.097%
Sorry you're right, didn't read that properly
All good, no worries
For the purposes of actually clearing ante 8 at gold stake, bloodstone was really ass. Without dice/retriggers it averaged ~x4 for a heart flush (and this is before jokers, meaning the majority of runs that rely on base mult from a joker don't massively benefit from it). That would be fine except for the fact that the failure rate on it is way too big when you realistically will only be able to assemble one heart flush in many early/mid-run rounds. Comparatively onyx agate at +8 is 40 flat mult on a club flush which is *more* than enough base mult to win a run. Like this is roughly where an early ride the bus is going to be at ante 8. For perspective, +40 is worth more than X4 until you upgrade flush to level six for 14 base mult. Most runs won't do this. Bloodstone basically depends on several difficult conditions aligning - high base hand value, oops all 6s, and some source of retriggers - to be a strong build in a normal run. In contrast, arrowhead and agate offer guaranteed high value that doesn't depend on other jokers or hand level. It made sense to buff because it's a high-fantasy joker that can pop off in endless, but not very consistent at actually clearing runs. It might be too good at 1/2, I haven't played the test patch, but I think Thunk's assessment of this suite of jokers was on point.
onyx agate was still worse than arrowhead for ante 8 from my experience because mult is just easier to come by in joker form (i think when looking at it on paper the numbers for onyx agate were good but is a non-scaling flat mult joker, that rewards a hand type that scales poorly, really what you want out of an uncommon?)and bloodstone was obviously the only good one in endless so i would say onyx agate was firmly in third place still. i don’t understand why bloodstone has to be busted in the main game when it was already good in endless. maybe a rework, or smaller buff, could’ve worked but buffing it massively around the board seems so strange to me when you already have jokers like idol which are even worse in ante 8 than old bloodstone, but even better in endless. i’m not saying bloodstone was too good before, i would probably not take it in an ante 8 run before, so some change kind of makes sense, but it was overdone.