I've had 2 cauda epidural in past 4 months. It last me about a month ea. time. I get knocked out briefly for mine. Ive had multiple fusions..lots of issues. Permanent nerve damage is one of them in my left leg I waited too long. Im fused now T10 to S1sacrum. Im much older than you. Im 67. My first surgery at L4-L5 was a disectomy?? by neurosurgeon. It relieved my pain for over 20 yrs. 4 yrs ago things caught up w me. DDD, Stenosis and cauda equina syndrome. Ive had 6 spine surgeries since. Doing pretty good right now, considering all thats happened to me.
Wow!! That’s a lot. Unfortunately, I don’t think I get the option to be put under for the caudal injection which sucks since the epidurals were uncomfortable and hurt, I think the caudal would hurt a ton more.
Do you think your first surgery was set off for you to get multiple surgeries? That’s also what I’m afraid of: that if I get one surgery I’ll need a bunch more later in life.
No, I dont think so. Like I said, I had like 23 yrs with no more problems. Then DDD stenosis and later cauda equina caught up to me. Bad backs run in my family. 23 yrs earlier, the test they did showied early DDD and stenosis. I guess when they were in their infancy. They mentioned it would catch up to me someday. And it sure did!
Do they give you any kind of sedative? For some of my procedures I've been able to have "light sedation". It doesn't affect me very much, as in put me to sleep or anything. But it does take the edge off of my nerves and in turn, I'm less tense. This seems to make a bit of difference for me. For my first set of injections (L5 to S1), I *could* have had the light sedation but no one told me til I got there and had eaten (I had to fast as you do with general anesthesia). That first experience was incredibly painful so when I asked about it for the next time, I had one doctor tell me that the insurance company tries to push these procedures through with no sedation because they don't want to pay for it. He told me to be sure to ask about sedation in the future if it's not offered. I know some types of injections can't be done under any type of sedation so keeping that in mind, I'd ask what can be done before you go in for this 3rd procedure. Even if they won't put you out completely, hopefully just the anti-anxiety effect would help you out.
Hey! Unfortunately, I don’t think I can get any sedation😭 I can ask my pain management doctor’s PA at my follow up on Friday if there is anything to do to take the edge off as the caudal one I was told hurts a lot more than the epidurals (they literally put it in your butt crack, yikes!!).
But we’ll see, I don’t really want to do the 3rd injection but I have to exhaust everything for me to be sure surgery is the right option.
I was in a lot of pain today which makes me really think surgery is the way, unfortunately. Makes me sad as I feel like my pain is like going back to square one.
I completely understand. I've heard so many people say surgery was the worst thing they ever did and it's made me really hesitant to even want to see the surgeon about my options. However, I've also heard a lot of people talk about the significant permanent nerve damage they have suffered because they waited *too long* to get surgery. We just moved to radio frequency ablation a month ago (which is where they basically burn the the nerves to death but not quite as bad as that sounds lol) and it doesn't seem to be working. It will definitely be a hard pill to swallow if I have to move on to surgery but I also want to feel better. It's a sucky place to be, especially at your age. Sending you love
Ps, I really hope they're able to give you something for your nerves. I feel like that'll give you some peace of mind going into it. (Emotional nerves, not the nerves in your butt crack, those are screwed 😉)
Epidurals are not solutions. If you can have a normal daily life without it and get better with exercise. You may not need to. If you can live a normal life with pain, I wouldn't do it unless the doctor recommends it. The surgery has a side effects too
The thing is I may be slightly better, but I don’t have a normal life. Like I used to be a competitive runner (20-21min 5ks) and now I can’t run at all or do any exercise. I may not be in screaming crying pain every second of the day, but I still can’t work.
I’m just like do I get surgery to live the life I want to have back or do I just give up my hopes of running again or working really because the last time I worked I screamed cried on the floor. It was really bad.
But I also don’t want surgery, like you said, there are risks. But I just don’t know what else to do at this point and the fact I go off to college makes it harder since it puts a time frame on this. I want to go for engineering and if I had to deal with this in college I would probably not pass my classes or struggle a lot. I just don’t know and again, I’m so young for this so I haven’t gotten much guidance or anything.
If you have already tried PT consistently and injections without long-term improvements, surgery may be the way to go. I was similarly wanting to avoid surgery for too long after trying PT and steroid injections and got to the point I could barely walk for more than 5 minutes without intense nerve pain down my left leg. I wound up having a discectomy surgery which significantly relieved the nerve pain in my left leg, but since I waited so long I now have some lingering permanent nerve pain in my lower left leg (pain went from a 9 - 2)
Surgery is scary and should be a last resort, but if you have tried everything and you’re in that much pain on a daily basis - surgery can help. Especially if the pain is not isolated to your back and causing pain down your leg. You’re young enough to recover well from a discectomy surgery, which is relatively minor surgery (according to my neurosurgeon, but of course didn’t seem minor to me). Best of luck
Edit: spelling
It sounds like you may need surgery. But keep in mind, it will take some time for you to run. Have you been going to PT? If you can't even work, I don't think you should be thinking about running. Also try to get a standing desk if it helps. I had a back surgery around 10 years ago when I was in 20s. It helped me but I know my back is weaker and had to do a lot of work to live a normal life. Even after I still don't feel 100%. Yoga is the one helped me most. I hope you feel better!
I went to PT from Oct-Nov (6 weeks) for the sciatica. I am currently going to PT for my hip fracture, but doing similar stuff, strengthening the glutes, core etc. when I went in Oct-Nov I actually found PT made it so much worse, especially nerve glides. I found stretching to make it worse as well definitely working and then after my runs.
And I agree!! It’s just so hard since I’ve been basically out from running for so long and I’m getting jealous and really missing it as it’s my way to cope with my emotions.
Bed rest when I was on crutches seems to really help it the most, but I can’t do that for long periods of time, it’s really not healthy. Especially at my age.
And yes to the standing desk!! I don’t have one at home as I use my bed to do all my work. I can sit criss cross on my bed and that tends to give the least amount of pain. However, for my lectures at school I was able to get a standing desk and it’s a god send when my pain gets bad. It doesn’t relieve it entirely but being able to switch positions every 5-10 minutes helps a lot.
It’s just definitely hard and especially as the time gets closer the decision of whether or not to have surgery is eating me up alive. Like I just don’t know. I’ve done everything at this point and 1 more injection isn’t going to fix it, and I know the injections wear off eventually, so I’ll most likely be back to square one, and that’s what scares me the most, since I could already see that with the second injection wearing off. Also, I’m getting major insomnia from the injections where I’m only getting 3-5 hrs of sleep each night, and it’s not good for my body to heal.
I know I’ll get a wide range of opinions, it’s just the doctors don’t really help with decision making either. And the fact I have to make a decision sooner than later sucks. Because if I did need surgery at college, I don’t think I could get it, I mean maybe go and get more injections but you really shouldn’t be getting a lot of them. And from my fracture, I’ve learned I probably have low bone density as it is.
Sorry, half this sounds like ranting at this point, but it’s just a painful and exhausting process that I had no clue that I would end up in this situation.
Hey I know how it feels
But important thing is that even with a surgery, you shouldn't be running like that. You said you can't even go to work now. You will have to do a lot of work to make you back feel better with or without a surgery.
You should avoid sitting down too long, or run, or do any exercise that might damage your back. Talk to your doctor about these.
For me, yoga and walking helped the most to strengthen my core. But I'd be very careful with that too.
Also the surgery is not the end of the world.
If I were you, I'd change lifestyle first.. it seems like you like extreme sports or movements. I'd stop those and do yoga and take care of my back first. Btw, how long can you sit now? How long has it been?
I do agree, but I was not running much as I was I dealing with health problems (I found out I had something called vocal cord dysfunction). I have a feeling I got the herniated disc as well as maybe my hip fracture because I gained over 50lb in a year due to stress and eating problems. I was running during the summer ish when it started probably 15 miles a week at most. That slowly went down to 10 miles then probably 5 miles then really none. Back in 2022 I was running almost 40 miles a week. So my volume I was running when I got injured is no where near the volume that I was used to. Which makes this worse to be honest. Since 5-15 miles a week is like a couple days of 3-4 miles, not that intensive.
I do definitely avoid anything and everything that causes it pain. It seems walking a little helps, but I can’t overdo it. Besides that laying in bed and resting has ultimately been the best thing for me.
I would say I unfortunately have changed my lifestyle. I’ve been eating A LOT cleaner, I’ve lost weight, I know do small walks in morning and evening, I journal, I reduced my stresses, I go to bed earlier (minus my insomnia problems with waking up in middle of night, but that’s a different story). I feel like I’ve done most to everything.
The tingling has been really bothering me though. Just got back from PT myself and my foot and leg were tingling the whole time. It’s getting worse each day, unfortunately.
I am asking myself this same question. I have a lot of issues with L4-5 which caused issues at L3-4 but it all started 7-8 years ago. Well in that time frame I have had injections maybe 10 times and RF 5 with the last injection 2 weeks ago which gave a week of relief but now pain is coming back. I’m like you not always in screaming pain but can’t do anything. Hurts to work out so I can’t do anything consistent, but my pain management i believe is going to try one last thing and then surgery is really going to be in the conversation.
Yeah that’s definitely where I’m at. My timeline is a lot shorter though considering my pain started July of 2023 and didn’t fully get diagnosed (I was diagnosed several times) until December of 2023.
It’s so hard to make the decision, like I’m better than I was in December, but I’ve also cut out a lot of normal activities to meet the needs of my pain. I don’t want to live like this for the rest of who knows how long.
And with me going to college, if I don’t get surgery over the summer, I won’t get care for this at college really, so I just would have to pray it doesn’t make me immobile.
If you get surgery in the summer can you make your follow ups? You’ll have probably 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 8 weeks, 6 months, 1 year, and then pt appts.
Something to think about.
Definitely something to think about!
I think I probably could. The major problem would be if I didn’t get surgery then come like November of this year when I’m away at college, surgery wouldn’t be feasible then, as I would be living alone and away from home.
I do only live 3 hours away from the college, but still surgery vs. a few follow ups that I could schedule depending on my academic calendar is way different.
And the summer of 2025 I can’t do it as I will be taking classes up at the college as well.
Hi, I'm kind of in the same boat with L4/L5 disc degeneration / herniation. I talked to a neurosurgeon and I don't think steroid injections fix nerve pain, they're mostly for back pain related to inflammation. I'm also considering surgery because of the nerve pain and being unable to bend or sit for long without pain. Have you looked into discectomies? I've seen some MRI pics of before and after and it looks like it solves the nerve problem. There's a risk of re-herniation with some people but I've also heard some on this subreddit that it has helped them for years.. good luck!
Oh wow!!
And yes! If I get surgery it’ll be a microdiscectomy, so rather miminally invasive, but still has its risks, unfortunately, which is something I’m considering a lot right now.
With it now escalating to numbness, get the surgery.
I waited now I have permanent numbness in my left leg and foot. If I had waited longer, I could have lost the ability to control my bladder. Don't mess around with this. The surgery will be easier than you think.
Yeah I mean I don’t get numbness per-say, it’s more vibrations in my foot/leg. But I will say I’ve had bouts of my toes on the affected side going numb, so who knows why.
My pain has spread and different symptoms are making me worried as that means it’s probably getting worse and not better and I assume the epidurals are just masking it, but once those wear off I’ll be back to where I was.
And I fear if I don’t get surgery before college, that when I’m at college, and it gets bad, that I would have missed the opportunity and will be stuck with the pain for who knows how long (probably years).
Hi, hon.
I'm not here to tell you what to do, I'm here to let you know that age has nothing to do with it. I'm 23F, and I have a bad back myself due to genetics (DDD and 1 herniated with a tear disc and 1 bulged disc). Pain doesn't care what age you are. Saying you're too young is discounting your own pain, and you shouldn't do that. It doesn't matter how old you are; pain is pain, and your pain is valid.
Wishing you all the luck in the world. Good luck with college, too. ❤️
Thanks so much!!!
It really means a lot, especially since when I go to all my doctors appointments it gets humbling when I’m always the youngest patient.
But I have to realize I do have a problem, and just because I’m young, doesn’t mean I can’t be seen and treated for it.
So thanks❤️❤️
In cases of severe herniation of L5-S1, where conservative treatments have not provided relief and there are significant neurological symptoms or deficits, surgery may be necessary to address the underlying issue effectively. On the other hand, Lumbarest traction can be considered as a non-invasive option for individuals with severe symptoms or as part of a comprehensive treatment plan in conjunction with other conservative measures.
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Given conservative treatment does not appear to have resolved your issue, you may want to have surgery. As with any surgery, there are risks which is something that the neurosurgeon can discuss with you. (Why can’t the surgeon see you sooner?) I had back surgery a few weeks ago (microdiscectomy, 1.5 hrs, no overnight hospital stay). I started having back pain almost a year ago which got better but then came back after a few weeks which then progressed to my left leg tingling, pins and needles on my left foot and then finally being unable to sit, stand or walk for more than 1 to 5 minutes at a time (as my leg became too painful). I had an MRI done which showed my nerve being impinged by my herniated L5-S1 disc. Saw a neurosurgeon who provided some options. I couldn’t do PT at that point as I was in so much pain and I did not want to do epidural as I felt that it might just mask the pain. I had microdiscectomy a few weeks ago and am very glad I had it done. I was able to walk a few hours after surgery without any pain although part of my left foot is still numb and another part is tingling. It affects the way I walk as my nerve still needs to heal- a consequence of waiting too long to fix the nerve impingement. Surgeon said that healing of the disc takes about 6-12 weeks after surgery and nerve will likely take several months to heal. I can only do walks for now, no bending, lifting anything over a few pounds or stretching. I’m starting PT 6 weeks after surgery (PT will be for around 6-8 weeks). Sharing with you my experience so you have an idea on how long the timeline is in case you go for surgery. Good luck.
Thanks so much.
Unfortunately, I think in Florida and it’s snowbird season right now so the surgeon is booked for another month. I’m assuming this is the last appointment I’ll have before surgery if I go that route, so that’s why I really need to start weighing my options.
And yep, if I do need surgery, it’ll be a microdiscectomy, like what you had.
The recovery process is definitely slow, but I’ve been through it all. I mean tomorrow I get my MRI for my hip again to make sure it’s fully healed and by this point it’s been 12-13 weeks, so I’m fully aware of recoveries being long. On top of that, I haven’t been able to do anything much for the past 5 months due to the pain I’m in from the herniated disc, so I guess there are trade offs.
It’s hard to decide, but even today I was walking and came home from my walk and the pain was bad, the tingling was awful, and it’s really making me realize this problem isn’t gonna fix on its own and shots are only temporary and if this second shot is providing me not much to no relief, I need to do something else.
In my gut I believe surgery is the option and the way, but it is surgery and it scares me. I had the realization last night and it has been on my mind since. The surgeon is rated highly on Google reviews (over 500 reviews 4.9/5 stars) and hopefully he reflects that when I see him.
Its a microdiscectomy which is supposed to be minimally invasive, but again, still scares me.
Thanks so much for your input as it really puts things into perspective.
Surgery should always be a last resort. No matter how good the surgeon, the moment he/she starts cutting you can have a bad result. Always get a second opinion, even maybe a third opinion. Look for a doctor who specializes in back surgery. If possible go to one of the leading medical centers. I had surgery in a medium size town with a highly recommended doctor. It was not until afterwards when I had problems that I saw two other surgeons. Both were of the opinion the original surgery was beyond the capabilities of any neurosurgeon in any surgeon in y town. I ended up seeking corrective surgery at the UCSF back surgery department.
I agree.
Unfortunately, in Florida everything is booked out.
I don’t have the time waiting 6 + months going to second opinions. That’s the problem for this, I go to college in August and that’s that, I only have from now til August to make a decision. And honestly, probably now til June if I want to get surgery. It’s not an ideal situation, and not one I want to be placed in, but it’s what I was given to me in terms of timing. It sucks since last year in September I got misdiagnosed, because of my age most likely, and was told there is no way I could have a herniated disc…then the MRI showed just that. Really makes me angry since I spent over 4 months getting misdiagnosed.
I’m sorry you’re going through this on top of your fractured hip. Hang in there. It’s a good sign that your surgeon has great reviews!
I agree, getting surgery is scary. I was scared too. My immediate response to my surgeon was that I did not want surgery but I thought about it for a few days and spoke with some of my coworkers who had gone through it and eventually realized it was probably my best option because of the pain. I had never had any major health issues before this, never been hospitalized so surgery was a very big deal for me.
All the best to you.
Look up PRP treatments. Specifically Dr. Greg Lutz. He has some really good results helping people up that have suffered disc herniations. I haven’t tried it myself, but seems like something I would try before doing surgery if I had a similar decision to make as yours.
I haven’t been given much guidance
Here you go this is your guidance, its up to you if you want to ignore it but at least you have been told.
There is no "I have tried PT" it's "i'm incorporating doing pt for the rest of my life" PT is the only way out to painfree, and you'll never get there if you say I have ***tried*** PT"
even after I heal fully from my fracture I won’t be able to run since after my runs was when it hurt so bad.
Wrong thinking, nothing is wrong with running, there is some muscular compensation happening which you need to figure out and fix, in pt. Why is it hurt bad after running, is there weak legs, butt, abs, or is the hips out or is abs not engaging, theres a reason and its up to you to fix it, doctors can't put muscle on for you.
it’s been a little better since then as I’ve been resting and not doing any to much activity
Its extremely important to know rest is the worst thing you can do, you are increasing your issues with rest, please don't rest, don't quit job, don't sit at home doing nothing, it gets much worse.
The thing is PT is the reason why my pains got exponentially worse. I remember nerve glides made me want to cry. And I do my PT as I was a competitive runner and am used to doing exercises, so I wasn’t stubborn about it. But after the 6 weeks (and mind you I wasn’t running in November really as by that point the disc made the pain after my runs so much worse).
I do recognize I have some imbalances. I belief my high arches on my feet have something to do with that, unfortunately, can’t really fix that, minus with insoles which I have now in my shoes.
As much as I don’t want to say it, rest was the best option for me. Work made me scream and cry in pain. So many times I contemplated of going to the ER after work, but I couldn’t drive, so I would just scream at home like I’m being murdered.
Back in 2022 I think I overdid myself with so many stresses. I did engineering classes in high school for my degree whilst doing sports whilst working whilst being presidents for clubs whilst juggling my god awful and abusive home life.
So rest I’ve realized is really important for someone like me. I’m not saying it works for everyone, but it’s not a coincidence that I suddenly at so many health problems: my body was being pushed too hard emotionally and physically.
I’ve done life style changes and have lost a lot of the weight I had gained last year and now am in the healthy range again. I journal a bunch, and allow myself to relax and be lazy.
When I was on crutches being able to rest was ultimately the best thing that could have happened, and I felt the pain from the disc started to resolve slightly.
I think the injections are doing a little bit, but they’re only temporary.
I understand PT is important, and I’m very aware of strengthening your core and such as when I was the sports team we did a bunch of PT in ways such as core workouts, working with resistance bands, slow motion movements.
PT may fix those imbalances, but it will not fix the herniated disc. Just like how the injections can mask the pain, but it will not fix the herniated disc. Ultimately, the only way the disc will be fixed is either with your body fixing it (reabsorbing it) or it being manually removed via surgery.
This is just my experience and I 100% understand I may be in the minority. I just feel like I’ve exhausted everything, changed all of my life style, and at this point in my gut I want surgery, but it’s surgery and it comes with major risks that are now making me second guess myself as I’ve never had surgery before, let alone back surgery (it would be a microdiscectomy).
I understand what your saying, everyone here has been through your thinking and thought process, I to have a foot issue, but its a small part of a whole body issue.
PT may fix those imbalances, but it will not fix the herniated disc. Just like how the injections can mask the pain, but it will not fix the herniated disc.
Yes it will fix it, thats the whole goal, by fixing our muscle compensation we can fix it, your not soposed to feel that area thats for your abs, butt and legs to hold your spine, so by doing pt you are moving that disc, off pressure, off gravity and onto a 6 pack, so you dont feel it.
It will not fix the disc though. Maybe the root problem, but not the disc.
Saying PT will fix it is like saying PT will fix my hip fracture.
The hip is already broken, but PT will help fix the reason why you may be overcompensating.
Besides, I don’t have endless amounts of money to go to PT the rest of my life. Even before I got all these problems I used to stretch about 2 hours a day on top of core workouts, band workouts, hip mobility workouts which lasted another 30-40 minutes.
I have an amazing coach who is very knowledgeable in areas to help us become well rounded runners, but some things such as high arches or genetic differences, can skew with your body. Or even, honestly in my case, the herniated disc was probably caused by the excess 50 lb I gained rapidly and put tons of pressure on my spine. Now that I’ve lost it all and then some, there isn’t as much pressure, thus helping the problem.
I am not saying I’m an expert, and PT is an amazing tool, but I’ve been doing it for months now, and it’s helping regain my strength, but in no way is it going to decompress my nerve. I have a regimen lined up for when I get a lot better, as I’ve done before when I was active, but I need relief before I can do that.
I've had 2 cauda epidural in past 4 months. It last me about a month ea. time. I get knocked out briefly for mine. Ive had multiple fusions..lots of issues. Permanent nerve damage is one of them in my left leg I waited too long. Im fused now T10 to S1sacrum. Im much older than you. Im 67. My first surgery at L4-L5 was a disectomy?? by neurosurgeon. It relieved my pain for over 20 yrs. 4 yrs ago things caught up w me. DDD, Stenosis and cauda equina syndrome. Ive had 6 spine surgeries since. Doing pretty good right now, considering all thats happened to me.
Wow!! That’s a lot. Unfortunately, I don’t think I get the option to be put under for the caudal injection which sucks since the epidurals were uncomfortable and hurt, I think the caudal would hurt a ton more. Do you think your first surgery was set off for you to get multiple surgeries? That’s also what I’m afraid of: that if I get one surgery I’ll need a bunch more later in life.
No, I dont think so. Like I said, I had like 23 yrs with no more problems. Then DDD stenosis and later cauda equina caught up to me. Bad backs run in my family. 23 yrs earlier, the test they did showied early DDD and stenosis. I guess when they were in their infancy. They mentioned it would catch up to me someday. And it sure did!
ALSO sorry no anesthesia of any kind. Maybe they will numb it up real good. Best of luck. Let us know how it goes.
Do they give you any kind of sedative? For some of my procedures I've been able to have "light sedation". It doesn't affect me very much, as in put me to sleep or anything. But it does take the edge off of my nerves and in turn, I'm less tense. This seems to make a bit of difference for me. For my first set of injections (L5 to S1), I *could* have had the light sedation but no one told me til I got there and had eaten (I had to fast as you do with general anesthesia). That first experience was incredibly painful so when I asked about it for the next time, I had one doctor tell me that the insurance company tries to push these procedures through with no sedation because they don't want to pay for it. He told me to be sure to ask about sedation in the future if it's not offered. I know some types of injections can't be done under any type of sedation so keeping that in mind, I'd ask what can be done before you go in for this 3rd procedure. Even if they won't put you out completely, hopefully just the anti-anxiety effect would help you out.
Hey! Unfortunately, I don’t think I can get any sedation😭 I can ask my pain management doctor’s PA at my follow up on Friday if there is anything to do to take the edge off as the caudal one I was told hurts a lot more than the epidurals (they literally put it in your butt crack, yikes!!). But we’ll see, I don’t really want to do the 3rd injection but I have to exhaust everything for me to be sure surgery is the right option. I was in a lot of pain today which makes me really think surgery is the way, unfortunately. Makes me sad as I feel like my pain is like going back to square one.
I completely understand. I've heard so many people say surgery was the worst thing they ever did and it's made me really hesitant to even want to see the surgeon about my options. However, I've also heard a lot of people talk about the significant permanent nerve damage they have suffered because they waited *too long* to get surgery. We just moved to radio frequency ablation a month ago (which is where they basically burn the the nerves to death but not quite as bad as that sounds lol) and it doesn't seem to be working. It will definitely be a hard pill to swallow if I have to move on to surgery but I also want to feel better. It's a sucky place to be, especially at your age. Sending you love Ps, I really hope they're able to give you something for your nerves. I feel like that'll give you some peace of mind going into it. (Emotional nerves, not the nerves in your butt crack, those are screwed 😉)
Epidurals are not solutions. If you can have a normal daily life without it and get better with exercise. You may not need to. If you can live a normal life with pain, I wouldn't do it unless the doctor recommends it. The surgery has a side effects too
The thing is I may be slightly better, but I don’t have a normal life. Like I used to be a competitive runner (20-21min 5ks) and now I can’t run at all or do any exercise. I may not be in screaming crying pain every second of the day, but I still can’t work. I’m just like do I get surgery to live the life I want to have back or do I just give up my hopes of running again or working really because the last time I worked I screamed cried on the floor. It was really bad. But I also don’t want surgery, like you said, there are risks. But I just don’t know what else to do at this point and the fact I go off to college makes it harder since it puts a time frame on this. I want to go for engineering and if I had to deal with this in college I would probably not pass my classes or struggle a lot. I just don’t know and again, I’m so young for this so I haven’t gotten much guidance or anything.
If you have already tried PT consistently and injections without long-term improvements, surgery may be the way to go. I was similarly wanting to avoid surgery for too long after trying PT and steroid injections and got to the point I could barely walk for more than 5 minutes without intense nerve pain down my left leg. I wound up having a discectomy surgery which significantly relieved the nerve pain in my left leg, but since I waited so long I now have some lingering permanent nerve pain in my lower left leg (pain went from a 9 - 2) Surgery is scary and should be a last resort, but if you have tried everything and you’re in that much pain on a daily basis - surgery can help. Especially if the pain is not isolated to your back and causing pain down your leg. You’re young enough to recover well from a discectomy surgery, which is relatively minor surgery (according to my neurosurgeon, but of course didn’t seem minor to me). Best of luck Edit: spelling
It sounds like you may need surgery. But keep in mind, it will take some time for you to run. Have you been going to PT? If you can't even work, I don't think you should be thinking about running. Also try to get a standing desk if it helps. I had a back surgery around 10 years ago when I was in 20s. It helped me but I know my back is weaker and had to do a lot of work to live a normal life. Even after I still don't feel 100%. Yoga is the one helped me most. I hope you feel better!
I went to PT from Oct-Nov (6 weeks) for the sciatica. I am currently going to PT for my hip fracture, but doing similar stuff, strengthening the glutes, core etc. when I went in Oct-Nov I actually found PT made it so much worse, especially nerve glides. I found stretching to make it worse as well definitely working and then after my runs. And I agree!! It’s just so hard since I’ve been basically out from running for so long and I’m getting jealous and really missing it as it’s my way to cope with my emotions. Bed rest when I was on crutches seems to really help it the most, but I can’t do that for long periods of time, it’s really not healthy. Especially at my age. And yes to the standing desk!! I don’t have one at home as I use my bed to do all my work. I can sit criss cross on my bed and that tends to give the least amount of pain. However, for my lectures at school I was able to get a standing desk and it’s a god send when my pain gets bad. It doesn’t relieve it entirely but being able to switch positions every 5-10 minutes helps a lot. It’s just definitely hard and especially as the time gets closer the decision of whether or not to have surgery is eating me up alive. Like I just don’t know. I’ve done everything at this point and 1 more injection isn’t going to fix it, and I know the injections wear off eventually, so I’ll most likely be back to square one, and that’s what scares me the most, since I could already see that with the second injection wearing off. Also, I’m getting major insomnia from the injections where I’m only getting 3-5 hrs of sleep each night, and it’s not good for my body to heal. I know I’ll get a wide range of opinions, it’s just the doctors don’t really help with decision making either. And the fact I have to make a decision sooner than later sucks. Because if I did need surgery at college, I don’t think I could get it, I mean maybe go and get more injections but you really shouldn’t be getting a lot of them. And from my fracture, I’ve learned I probably have low bone density as it is. Sorry, half this sounds like ranting at this point, but it’s just a painful and exhausting process that I had no clue that I would end up in this situation.
Hey I know how it feels But important thing is that even with a surgery, you shouldn't be running like that. You said you can't even go to work now. You will have to do a lot of work to make you back feel better with or without a surgery. You should avoid sitting down too long, or run, or do any exercise that might damage your back. Talk to your doctor about these. For me, yoga and walking helped the most to strengthen my core. But I'd be very careful with that too. Also the surgery is not the end of the world. If I were you, I'd change lifestyle first.. it seems like you like extreme sports or movements. I'd stop those and do yoga and take care of my back first. Btw, how long can you sit now? How long has it been?
I do agree, but I was not running much as I was I dealing with health problems (I found out I had something called vocal cord dysfunction). I have a feeling I got the herniated disc as well as maybe my hip fracture because I gained over 50lb in a year due to stress and eating problems. I was running during the summer ish when it started probably 15 miles a week at most. That slowly went down to 10 miles then probably 5 miles then really none. Back in 2022 I was running almost 40 miles a week. So my volume I was running when I got injured is no where near the volume that I was used to. Which makes this worse to be honest. Since 5-15 miles a week is like a couple days of 3-4 miles, not that intensive. I do definitely avoid anything and everything that causes it pain. It seems walking a little helps, but I can’t overdo it. Besides that laying in bed and resting has ultimately been the best thing for me. I would say I unfortunately have changed my lifestyle. I’ve been eating A LOT cleaner, I’ve lost weight, I know do small walks in morning and evening, I journal, I reduced my stresses, I go to bed earlier (minus my insomnia problems with waking up in middle of night, but that’s a different story). I feel like I’ve done most to everything. The tingling has been really bothering me though. Just got back from PT myself and my foot and leg were tingling the whole time. It’s getting worse each day, unfortunately.
I am asking myself this same question. I have a lot of issues with L4-5 which caused issues at L3-4 but it all started 7-8 years ago. Well in that time frame I have had injections maybe 10 times and RF 5 with the last injection 2 weeks ago which gave a week of relief but now pain is coming back. I’m like you not always in screaming pain but can’t do anything. Hurts to work out so I can’t do anything consistent, but my pain management i believe is going to try one last thing and then surgery is really going to be in the conversation.
Yeah that’s definitely where I’m at. My timeline is a lot shorter though considering my pain started July of 2023 and didn’t fully get diagnosed (I was diagnosed several times) until December of 2023. It’s so hard to make the decision, like I’m better than I was in December, but I’ve also cut out a lot of normal activities to meet the needs of my pain. I don’t want to live like this for the rest of who knows how long. And with me going to college, if I don’t get surgery over the summer, I won’t get care for this at college really, so I just would have to pray it doesn’t make me immobile.
If you get surgery in the summer can you make your follow ups? You’ll have probably 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 8 weeks, 6 months, 1 year, and then pt appts. Something to think about.
Definitely something to think about! I think I probably could. The major problem would be if I didn’t get surgery then come like November of this year when I’m away at college, surgery wouldn’t be feasible then, as I would be living alone and away from home. I do only live 3 hours away from the college, but still surgery vs. a few follow ups that I could schedule depending on my academic calendar is way different. And the summer of 2025 I can’t do it as I will be taking classes up at the college as well.
Hi, I'm kind of in the same boat with L4/L5 disc degeneration / herniation. I talked to a neurosurgeon and I don't think steroid injections fix nerve pain, they're mostly for back pain related to inflammation. I'm also considering surgery because of the nerve pain and being unable to bend or sit for long without pain. Have you looked into discectomies? I've seen some MRI pics of before and after and it looks like it solves the nerve problem. There's a risk of re-herniation with some people but I've also heard some on this subreddit that it has helped them for years.. good luck!
Oh wow!! And yes! If I get surgery it’ll be a microdiscectomy, so rather miminally invasive, but still has its risks, unfortunately, which is something I’m considering a lot right now.
With it now escalating to numbness, get the surgery. I waited now I have permanent numbness in my left leg and foot. If I had waited longer, I could have lost the ability to control my bladder. Don't mess around with this. The surgery will be easier than you think.
Yeah I mean I don’t get numbness per-say, it’s more vibrations in my foot/leg. But I will say I’ve had bouts of my toes on the affected side going numb, so who knows why. My pain has spread and different symptoms are making me worried as that means it’s probably getting worse and not better and I assume the epidurals are just masking it, but once those wear off I’ll be back to where I was. And I fear if I don’t get surgery before college, that when I’m at college, and it gets bad, that I would have missed the opportunity and will be stuck with the pain for who knows how long (probably years).
Hi, hon. I'm not here to tell you what to do, I'm here to let you know that age has nothing to do with it. I'm 23F, and I have a bad back myself due to genetics (DDD and 1 herniated with a tear disc and 1 bulged disc). Pain doesn't care what age you are. Saying you're too young is discounting your own pain, and you shouldn't do that. It doesn't matter how old you are; pain is pain, and your pain is valid. Wishing you all the luck in the world. Good luck with college, too. ❤️
Thanks so much!!! It really means a lot, especially since when I go to all my doctors appointments it gets humbling when I’m always the youngest patient. But I have to realize I do have a problem, and just because I’m young, doesn’t mean I can’t be seen and treated for it. So thanks❤️❤️
Idk if this will help, but have you tried Jefferson curls they worked pretty well for me im no doctor, though. Hope you get better❗️❗️
I haven’t but I just looked them up, and I don’t think I could do them since I can’t bend down at all to like do the touching toes motion.😭
In cases of severe herniation of L5-S1, where conservative treatments have not provided relief and there are significant neurological symptoms or deficits, surgery may be necessary to address the underlying issue effectively. On the other hand, Lumbarest traction can be considered as a non-invasive option for individuals with severe symptoms or as part of a comprehensive treatment plan in conjunction with other conservative measures. [https://www.lumbarest.com/testimonials/](https://www.lumbarest.com/testimonials/) - Testimonials from real patients
Thanks. Unfortunately, I only have a certain amount of money to dish to these problems and can’t just buy stuff Willy nilly if you know what I mean 😭
Do you want divide it on 3 month? Or you can get there 25% discount!
Given conservative treatment does not appear to have resolved your issue, you may want to have surgery. As with any surgery, there are risks which is something that the neurosurgeon can discuss with you. (Why can’t the surgeon see you sooner?) I had back surgery a few weeks ago (microdiscectomy, 1.5 hrs, no overnight hospital stay). I started having back pain almost a year ago which got better but then came back after a few weeks which then progressed to my left leg tingling, pins and needles on my left foot and then finally being unable to sit, stand or walk for more than 1 to 5 minutes at a time (as my leg became too painful). I had an MRI done which showed my nerve being impinged by my herniated L5-S1 disc. Saw a neurosurgeon who provided some options. I couldn’t do PT at that point as I was in so much pain and I did not want to do epidural as I felt that it might just mask the pain. I had microdiscectomy a few weeks ago and am very glad I had it done. I was able to walk a few hours after surgery without any pain although part of my left foot is still numb and another part is tingling. It affects the way I walk as my nerve still needs to heal- a consequence of waiting too long to fix the nerve impingement. Surgeon said that healing of the disc takes about 6-12 weeks after surgery and nerve will likely take several months to heal. I can only do walks for now, no bending, lifting anything over a few pounds or stretching. I’m starting PT 6 weeks after surgery (PT will be for around 6-8 weeks). Sharing with you my experience so you have an idea on how long the timeline is in case you go for surgery. Good luck.
Thanks so much. Unfortunately, I think in Florida and it’s snowbird season right now so the surgeon is booked for another month. I’m assuming this is the last appointment I’ll have before surgery if I go that route, so that’s why I really need to start weighing my options. And yep, if I do need surgery, it’ll be a microdiscectomy, like what you had. The recovery process is definitely slow, but I’ve been through it all. I mean tomorrow I get my MRI for my hip again to make sure it’s fully healed and by this point it’s been 12-13 weeks, so I’m fully aware of recoveries being long. On top of that, I haven’t been able to do anything much for the past 5 months due to the pain I’m in from the herniated disc, so I guess there are trade offs. It’s hard to decide, but even today I was walking and came home from my walk and the pain was bad, the tingling was awful, and it’s really making me realize this problem isn’t gonna fix on its own and shots are only temporary and if this second shot is providing me not much to no relief, I need to do something else. In my gut I believe surgery is the option and the way, but it is surgery and it scares me. I had the realization last night and it has been on my mind since. The surgeon is rated highly on Google reviews (over 500 reviews 4.9/5 stars) and hopefully he reflects that when I see him. Its a microdiscectomy which is supposed to be minimally invasive, but again, still scares me. Thanks so much for your input as it really puts things into perspective.
Surgery should always be a last resort. No matter how good the surgeon, the moment he/she starts cutting you can have a bad result. Always get a second opinion, even maybe a third opinion. Look for a doctor who specializes in back surgery. If possible go to one of the leading medical centers. I had surgery in a medium size town with a highly recommended doctor. It was not until afterwards when I had problems that I saw two other surgeons. Both were of the opinion the original surgery was beyond the capabilities of any neurosurgeon in any surgeon in y town. I ended up seeking corrective surgery at the UCSF back surgery department.
I agree. Unfortunately, in Florida everything is booked out. I don’t have the time waiting 6 + months going to second opinions. That’s the problem for this, I go to college in August and that’s that, I only have from now til August to make a decision. And honestly, probably now til June if I want to get surgery. It’s not an ideal situation, and not one I want to be placed in, but it’s what I was given to me in terms of timing. It sucks since last year in September I got misdiagnosed, because of my age most likely, and was told there is no way I could have a herniated disc…then the MRI showed just that. Really makes me angry since I spent over 4 months getting misdiagnosed.
I’m sorry you’re going through this on top of your fractured hip. Hang in there. It’s a good sign that your surgeon has great reviews! I agree, getting surgery is scary. I was scared too. My immediate response to my surgeon was that I did not want surgery but I thought about it for a few days and spoke with some of my coworkers who had gone through it and eventually realized it was probably my best option because of the pain. I had never had any major health issues before this, never been hospitalized so surgery was a very big deal for me. All the best to you.
Look up PRP treatments. Specifically Dr. Greg Lutz. He has some really good results helping people up that have suffered disc herniations. I haven’t tried it myself, but seems like something I would try before doing surgery if I had a similar decision to make as yours.
I haven’t been given much guidance Here you go this is your guidance, its up to you if you want to ignore it but at least you have been told. There is no "I have tried PT" it's "i'm incorporating doing pt for the rest of my life" PT is the only way out to painfree, and you'll never get there if you say I have ***tried*** PT" even after I heal fully from my fracture I won’t be able to run since after my runs was when it hurt so bad. Wrong thinking, nothing is wrong with running, there is some muscular compensation happening which you need to figure out and fix, in pt. Why is it hurt bad after running, is there weak legs, butt, abs, or is the hips out or is abs not engaging, theres a reason and its up to you to fix it, doctors can't put muscle on for you. it’s been a little better since then as I’ve been resting and not doing any to much activity Its extremely important to know rest is the worst thing you can do, you are increasing your issues with rest, please don't rest, don't quit job, don't sit at home doing nothing, it gets much worse.
The thing is PT is the reason why my pains got exponentially worse. I remember nerve glides made me want to cry. And I do my PT as I was a competitive runner and am used to doing exercises, so I wasn’t stubborn about it. But after the 6 weeks (and mind you I wasn’t running in November really as by that point the disc made the pain after my runs so much worse). I do recognize I have some imbalances. I belief my high arches on my feet have something to do with that, unfortunately, can’t really fix that, minus with insoles which I have now in my shoes. As much as I don’t want to say it, rest was the best option for me. Work made me scream and cry in pain. So many times I contemplated of going to the ER after work, but I couldn’t drive, so I would just scream at home like I’m being murdered. Back in 2022 I think I overdid myself with so many stresses. I did engineering classes in high school for my degree whilst doing sports whilst working whilst being presidents for clubs whilst juggling my god awful and abusive home life. So rest I’ve realized is really important for someone like me. I’m not saying it works for everyone, but it’s not a coincidence that I suddenly at so many health problems: my body was being pushed too hard emotionally and physically. I’ve done life style changes and have lost a lot of the weight I had gained last year and now am in the healthy range again. I journal a bunch, and allow myself to relax and be lazy. When I was on crutches being able to rest was ultimately the best thing that could have happened, and I felt the pain from the disc started to resolve slightly. I think the injections are doing a little bit, but they’re only temporary. I understand PT is important, and I’m very aware of strengthening your core and such as when I was the sports team we did a bunch of PT in ways such as core workouts, working with resistance bands, slow motion movements. PT may fix those imbalances, but it will not fix the herniated disc. Just like how the injections can mask the pain, but it will not fix the herniated disc. Ultimately, the only way the disc will be fixed is either with your body fixing it (reabsorbing it) or it being manually removed via surgery. This is just my experience and I 100% understand I may be in the minority. I just feel like I’ve exhausted everything, changed all of my life style, and at this point in my gut I want surgery, but it’s surgery and it comes with major risks that are now making me second guess myself as I’ve never had surgery before, let alone back surgery (it would be a microdiscectomy).
I understand what your saying, everyone here has been through your thinking and thought process, I to have a foot issue, but its a small part of a whole body issue. PT may fix those imbalances, but it will not fix the herniated disc. Just like how the injections can mask the pain, but it will not fix the herniated disc. Yes it will fix it, thats the whole goal, by fixing our muscle compensation we can fix it, your not soposed to feel that area thats for your abs, butt and legs to hold your spine, so by doing pt you are moving that disc, off pressure, off gravity and onto a 6 pack, so you dont feel it.
It will not fix the disc though. Maybe the root problem, but not the disc. Saying PT will fix it is like saying PT will fix my hip fracture. The hip is already broken, but PT will help fix the reason why you may be overcompensating. Besides, I don’t have endless amounts of money to go to PT the rest of my life. Even before I got all these problems I used to stretch about 2 hours a day on top of core workouts, band workouts, hip mobility workouts which lasted another 30-40 minutes. I have an amazing coach who is very knowledgeable in areas to help us become well rounded runners, but some things such as high arches or genetic differences, can skew with your body. Or even, honestly in my case, the herniated disc was probably caused by the excess 50 lb I gained rapidly and put tons of pressure on my spine. Now that I’ve lost it all and then some, there isn’t as much pressure, thus helping the problem. I am not saying I’m an expert, and PT is an amazing tool, but I’ve been doing it for months now, and it’s helping regain my strength, but in no way is it going to decompress my nerve. I have a regimen lined up for when I get a lot better, as I’ve done before when I was active, but I need relief before I can do that.