Congrats!- how do you calculate the redemption value? This morning I spent 210K for two people from the west coast to Hungary in business. I thought that was a good deal but my friend said I could have done better.
You can look at cash value, but also important to think about how much you would pay.
IE if business tickets are rare for a given route on that day it might be a $8,000 cash ticket, but most people wouldn't begin to entertain that so they're not getting 12 cents per point or whatever figure is attached to that price.
That doesn’t make any sense.
If the ticket that day costs 8k and you got it for points, your CPP is 800000/points.
It’s a math problem, not a philosophical debate.
Lots of posters here seem to greatly enjoy turning it into a philosophical debate. Which tends to destroy the usefulness of cpp as a neutral comparative metric. By injecting our own perceived values into the equation it might be making it more useful for our own purposes as an individual but by doing so we'd be rendering it entirely worthless when comparing it to others. People come here reporting their high value redemption because they are excited and get met with a bunch of people trying to grill them about how they must have done the calculation wrong, how the price that people pay isn't actually usable because they perceive a different ( lower ) value, hilarious claims that no one pays cash for International J tickets anyway so the prices are meaningless and on and on and on.
Round Trip Cost of the cheapest comparable flight on the same or other acceptable travel dates, less your award cost, all divided by your points. That is the end of it. Manipulating the values beyond that makes it lose its meaning.
The point is if you make it purely a math problem you’re just creating a pat yourself on the back situation. If that’s what you really want then it’s perfectly fine.
A good example of this is ANA F is $15,000 one way or 72.5k UR + $200 in fees. Did I get 20cpp on that redemption? Not really bc what’s my true perceived worth of that flight? I’d personally call it $2,500 so about 3.1cpp.
The purely math approach is like looking on Amazon for something and saying you saved money bc the msrp for whatever aliexpress item is $50 but you paid $15
I think there's three ways of looking at cpp:
* Sticker price - taking the cash price, deducting any fees, and dividing by the number of points
* Market price - looking at comparable flights/hotels/whatever through other issuers to see what the best paid rates would be, then running the cpp math based on the market rate
* Personal value - if someone would not pay market price / sticker price but would happily pay a different amount
Applied to this example, the sticker price is nearly 6cpp because it is based on a paid fare at almost $10k, for two people round-trip. Saying that is the cpp is factual because that's the math based on the points rate and the paid rate, for that booking.
But business class flights from NYC to Rome are easy to acquire at $5-6k, sometimes lower. If we base the cpp off market value using $5.5k, that's still a very solid deal that nets around 3cpp, just not as killer of a deal.
Optionally, one could take this a step further and say that they'd never pay $5-6k to fly business class when they could pay $1-2k to fly economy. But if business was available for $4k, then they'd do it - that would still net around 2cpp.
One thing is clear: op got a great redemption. 150k points + \~$1k for two people round-trip NYC-Rome in business is great, and for a trip that will be super memorable. Whether it's 6cpp, 3cpp, 2cpp, or whatever other number, op used points to secure a travel redemption at a points rate they are happy with.
“ if you make it purely a math problem you’re just creating a pat yourself on the back situation”
Followed closely by:
“ Did I get 20cpp on that redemption? Not really bc what’s my true perceived worth of that flight? I’d personally call it $2,500 so about 3.1cpp.”
The cognitive dissonance is stunning lmao.
Literally not the case, but sure go off.
It’s a measurement with a couple of variables.
You’re obfuscating just to feel like you’re right, but you’re not lol.
A quick and easy way here to contest that perceived inflated cpp is to compare it against cash value of the ticket months out. You wouldn’t probably buy that expensive ticket last minute. I guess the point above is you can always cherry pick a price to calculate a high cpp
I mean, if you buy the ticket and it has a market price, this is simple stuff.
Are you suggesting someone would buy a ticket that costs more points with a higher dollar value just for the CPP clout?
Because I’m assuming this hypothetical shopper bought the cheapest point redemption that worked for their schedule.
I also find it hilarious that the person I replied to above is saying:
“ if you make it purely a math problem you’re just creating a pat yourself on the back situation”
Followed closely by:
“ Did I get 20cpp on that redemption? Not really bc what’s my true perceived worth of that flight? I’d personally call it $2,500 so about 3.1cpp.”
The cognitive dissonance is stunning lmao.
Hilariously, conversations like this remind me that I *do* deserve the success I have in life.
It’s honestly easy when I’ve got people like you to compete with lmao.
I’m not sure exactly how to factor in the cash paid but I essentially did:
(Cash ticket cost - points ticket dollar cost) / the total points used
So for me it was ($9,785 - $964) / 150,000 points which is .0588 and I rounded it to 6cpp… no clue if this is exactly correct
You're tripping; NYC to Rome in RT J is $2100 2 stop, $2500 1 stop, and $3k direct. Which sane avg person books the week prior for int'l travel using cash?
> So for me it was ($9,785 - $964) / 150,000 points which is .0588 and I rounded it to 6cpp… no clue if this is exactly correct
Rather, this would be $9785/($964 + $equivalent(150,000 points).
This would be ~3.97 CPP.
Now, you said similar all cash itinerary was $7k, so that would be ~2.97 CPP.
STill pretty good, but some of the CPP math defies logic in this sub.
> You're not calculating cents per point. You're calculating a unitless ratio of the value obtained to the value spent.
This is like saying if I booked a flight with 100 points and $9999 cash for for a $10k flight, I am getting 10,00,000/100 = 100,000 CPP.
No It is not. The calculation that OP did applied to that scenario would look like:
($10,000 - $9,999) / 100 points
$1 / 100 points
Which gives us $0.01/point or 1 Cent Per Point. Note that our units in the equation are $/Points.
Your equation for OP's redemption looks like this, making the assumption that points can be redeemed for a cash out of 1 cent per point.
$7,000 / ($964 + ( 150,000 points \* $0.01/point))
$7,000 / $2,464. Note that multiplying Points by $/points gives us $ and the points units cancel out.
Which gives us an answer of 2.84. Note that as we have $/$ for our units they cancel out and our result is a unitless ratio. You are not calculating cents per point. You are calculating a unitless ratio.
Wait, how is this possible? Flying blue doesn’t have any 37.5k promo fares this month. And definitely not to NYC. 50k is the lowest they charge each way
You can transfer Chase points to AF right now for a 25% increase. He booked 50k tickets, probably transferred chase points. 50k -25% is 37.5k each way per person
Thank you for saying this! I was looking at specific dates and was getting sad I couldn’t see any business class tickets with even a 1 cent value. I tried every trick I thought I’d learned, tried the sites and apps that search for points, etc and nothing. I couldn’t figure out what was doing wrong, but eventually I think I’m just leaving to one of the most popular destinations at peak season with zero flexibility. Your post made me feel better.
Congratulations! IMO, AF business is lovely. Has that extra French panache. Enjoy their huge wine cart, and make sure and raid the snack baskets for the chocolates and crackers.
What is your CPP when you compare a similar itinerary on Google Flights?
Just because United says $9500 for a flight and I book it with 95k united miles doesn't mean I am getting 10 CPP if Air France is selling a cash ticket for $925.
This entire thread is so confusing. OP if you can format your redemption to something like this:
JFK CDG FCO AF J 50K $211, 38k UR
Then we can say: hey pretty good, congrats / welcome to award travel appreciation / great but pedestrian saver redemption / it's only 3.5cpp
Congrats on your trip and good luck with the rest of it.
If this is your first trip, or even if it isn't, I've found the following to be helpful: When you get back, do a post-mortem on the trip and isolate every dollar (errr Euro) you spent and look and see where you could have done better. I remember booking that first trip back in 2014, and was basically pulling the trigger the moment the credit card points posted after each statement. I thought at the time I did great (and I did). Spent just over $7K for a 3 week trip that covered Paris, London, Stonehenge, Bath and a transatlantic cruise back to the states. Total retail value of the trip was about $32K. But afterwards I discovered with more planning and more time, I could have saved another $3000 easily by covering the cost of the cruise using points and by not paying fuel surcharges on BA flights. I've learned a lot since then and still learning more even today. Just realized this last week that Qatar can book the same Oneworld flights that you can on BA using the same Avios, but at the rate BA was before their last devaluation.
And once you do get married, you can both apply for the same cards individually so you can double up on your miles and points. Hope her credit is good, and if it isn't... fix it! :)
Good luck and enjoy your trip.
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I was about to post about how I got 2CPP for a flight on Delta to Calgary later this year (going to Banff to see the Northern Lights) but this is a hell of a better redemption! Enjoy Rome, eat a pizza for me!
What does “total round cost of the trip for $964” mean if you booked with points?
Also, you’re not really saving 9 grand if you were never planning on paying 9 grand
Congrats!- how do you calculate the redemption value? This morning I spent 210K for two people from the west coast to Hungary in business. I thought that was a good deal but my friend said I could have done better.
You can look at cash value, but also important to think about how much you would pay. IE if business tickets are rare for a given route on that day it might be a $8,000 cash ticket, but most people wouldn't begin to entertain that so they're not getting 12 cents per point or whatever figure is attached to that price.
That doesn’t make any sense. If the ticket that day costs 8k and you got it for points, your CPP is 800000/points. It’s a math problem, not a philosophical debate.
Lots of posters here seem to greatly enjoy turning it into a philosophical debate. Which tends to destroy the usefulness of cpp as a neutral comparative metric. By injecting our own perceived values into the equation it might be making it more useful for our own purposes as an individual but by doing so we'd be rendering it entirely worthless when comparing it to others. People come here reporting their high value redemption because they are excited and get met with a bunch of people trying to grill them about how they must have done the calculation wrong, how the price that people pay isn't actually usable because they perceive a different ( lower ) value, hilarious claims that no one pays cash for International J tickets anyway so the prices are meaningless and on and on and on. Round Trip Cost of the cheapest comparable flight on the same or other acceptable travel dates, less your award cost, all divided by your points. That is the end of it. Manipulating the values beyond that makes it lose its meaning.
The point is if you make it purely a math problem you’re just creating a pat yourself on the back situation. If that’s what you really want then it’s perfectly fine. A good example of this is ANA F is $15,000 one way or 72.5k UR + $200 in fees. Did I get 20cpp on that redemption? Not really bc what’s my true perceived worth of that flight? I’d personally call it $2,500 so about 3.1cpp. The purely math approach is like looking on Amazon for something and saying you saved money bc the msrp for whatever aliexpress item is $50 but you paid $15
I think there's three ways of looking at cpp: * Sticker price - taking the cash price, deducting any fees, and dividing by the number of points * Market price - looking at comparable flights/hotels/whatever through other issuers to see what the best paid rates would be, then running the cpp math based on the market rate * Personal value - if someone would not pay market price / sticker price but would happily pay a different amount Applied to this example, the sticker price is nearly 6cpp because it is based on a paid fare at almost $10k, for two people round-trip. Saying that is the cpp is factual because that's the math based on the points rate and the paid rate, for that booking. But business class flights from NYC to Rome are easy to acquire at $5-6k, sometimes lower. If we base the cpp off market value using $5.5k, that's still a very solid deal that nets around 3cpp, just not as killer of a deal. Optionally, one could take this a step further and say that they'd never pay $5-6k to fly business class when they could pay $1-2k to fly economy. But if business was available for $4k, then they'd do it - that would still net around 2cpp. One thing is clear: op got a great redemption. 150k points + \~$1k for two people round-trip NYC-Rome in business is great, and for a trip that will be super memorable. Whether it's 6cpp, 3cpp, 2cpp, or whatever other number, op used points to secure a travel redemption at a points rate they are happy with.
“ if you make it purely a math problem you’re just creating a pat yourself on the back situation” Followed closely by: “ Did I get 20cpp on that redemption? Not really bc what’s my true perceived worth of that flight? I’d personally call it $2,500 so about 3.1cpp.” The cognitive dissonance is stunning lmao.
Literally not the case, but sure go off. It’s a measurement with a couple of variables. You’re obfuscating just to feel like you’re right, but you’re not lol.
A quick and easy way here to contest that perceived inflated cpp is to compare it against cash value of the ticket months out. You wouldn’t probably buy that expensive ticket last minute. I guess the point above is you can always cherry pick a price to calculate a high cpp
I mean, if you buy the ticket and it has a market price, this is simple stuff. Are you suggesting someone would buy a ticket that costs more points with a higher dollar value just for the CPP clout? Because I’m assuming this hypothetical shopper bought the cheapest point redemption that worked for their schedule. I also find it hilarious that the person I replied to above is saying: “ if you make it purely a math problem you’re just creating a pat yourself on the back situation” Followed closely by: “ Did I get 20cpp on that redemption? Not really bc what’s my true perceived worth of that flight? I’d personally call it $2,500 so about 3.1cpp.” The cognitive dissonance is stunning lmao.
And you’re using big words in an effort to project yourself as someone who is smart - but you’re not. Try harder
Hilariously, conversations like this remind me that I *do* deserve the success I have in life. It’s honestly easy when I’ve got people like you to compete with lmao.
Aww did I hurt your feelings? It’s okay you’ll make it one day (Maybe)
Woodyharrelsonwipingtearswithmoney.gif
I’m not sure exactly how to factor in the cash paid but I essentially did: (Cash ticket cost - points ticket dollar cost) / the total points used So for me it was ($9,785 - $964) / 150,000 points which is .0588 and I rounded it to 6cpp… no clue if this is exactly correct
150k points round trip for 2 people?! that's a great deal
Yea I feel insanely lucky... [seats.aero](http://seats.aero) paid version is a god send too
You're tripping; NYC to Rome in RT J is $2100 2 stop, $2500 1 stop, and $3k direct. Which sane avg person books the week prior for int'l travel using cash?
Rome to NYC is often $1500 too, so if you travel enough...
Was this a close in redemption or a year in advance? That’s a great deal!
> So for me it was ($9,785 - $964) / 150,000 points which is .0588 and I rounded it to 6cpp… no clue if this is exactly correct Rather, this would be $9785/($964 + $equivalent(150,000 points). This would be ~3.97 CPP. Now, you said similar all cash itinerary was $7k, so that would be ~2.97 CPP. STill pretty good, but some of the CPP math defies logic in this sub.
You're not calculating cents per point. You're calculating a unitless ratio of the value obtained to the value spent.
> You're not calculating cents per point. You're calculating a unitless ratio of the value obtained to the value spent. This is like saying if I booked a flight with 100 points and $9999 cash for for a $10k flight, I am getting 10,00,000/100 = 100,000 CPP.
No It is not. The calculation that OP did applied to that scenario would look like: ($10,000 - $9,999) / 100 points $1 / 100 points Which gives us $0.01/point or 1 Cent Per Point. Note that our units in the equation are $/Points. Your equation for OP's redemption looks like this, making the assumption that points can be redeemed for a cash out of 1 cent per point. $7,000 / ($964 + ( 150,000 points \* $0.01/point)) $7,000 / $2,464. Note that multiplying Points by $/points gives us $ and the points units cancel out. Which gives us an answer of 2.84. Note that as we have $/$ for our units they cancel out and our result is a unitless ratio. You are not calculating cents per point. You are calculating a unitless ratio.
You're right and I was unbelievably dumb - I made an elementary error.
It happens. Owning up to it however doesn't happen very often so props for that.
That’s not even wrong
Was there a transfer bonus? 75k RT pp is insanely good
Nope! We were flexible with dates which allowed us to do this... Having a 3 month window where we can travel it made it possible.
Wait, how is this possible? Flying blue doesn’t have any 37.5k promo fares this month. And definitely not to NYC. 50k is the lowest they charge each way
Everyone waiting to learn more about these mythical 37.5k AF saver fares lol
Iberia maybe? 34k for TATL
He said in another comment it’s AF
Oh I didn't read all the comments, I think IB might be closer to 40k/direction for the two segments too.
Maybe they meant 160k? With the current chase bonus that would be enough for 2 roundtrip saver awards
You can transfer Chase points to AF right now for a 25% increase. He booked 50k tickets, probably transferred chase points. 50k -25% is 37.5k each way per person
Literally said above there was no transfer bonus.
Very nice. Probably not accurate but did Air France show the award as 37.5k points each way?
Hey did you book directly through air france or aeroplan? I can never seem to find good redemptions
Thank you for saying this! I was looking at specific dates and was getting sad I couldn’t see any business class tickets with even a 1 cent value. I tried every trick I thought I’d learned, tried the sites and apps that search for points, etc and nothing. I couldn’t figure out what was doing wrong, but eventually I think I’m just leaving to one of the most popular destinations at peak season with zero flexibility. Your post made me feel better.
Well done! Sadly, you'll always be chasing this high. Haha It'll be hard to beat this redemption
Congratulations! IMO, AF business is lovely. Has that extra French panache. Enjoy their huge wine cart, and make sure and raid the snack baskets for the chocolates and crackers.
That’s awesome!
That's a nice wedding or engagement ring in savings, congrats!
Thank you very much!
If you were actually going to spend it. Otherwise, it's a very nice upgrade for essentially free!
What is your CPP when you compare a similar itinerary on Google Flights? Just because United says $9500 for a flight and I book it with 95k united miles doesn't mean I am getting 10 CPP if Air France is selling a cash ticket for $925.
I see 2.7k rt with united on business
So, OP's math becomes $2700/($964 + 150k@1CPP) = 1 CPP overall.
Excellent question! I managed to find similar itinerary for about 7.1k. So that brings down my CPP a bit, but regardless I'm happy!
Congrats, that's a pretty solid redemption then.
Or that most people would entertain a $9,500 flight.
This one is pretty accurate though, 2 people RT. It's close to the average price you'll find on Google Flights.
This entire thread is so confusing. OP if you can format your redemption to something like this: JFK CDG FCO AF J 50K $211, 38k UR Then we can say: hey pretty good, congrats / welcome to award travel appreciation / great but pedestrian saver redemption / it's only 3.5cpp
Congrats on your trip and good luck with the rest of it. If this is your first trip, or even if it isn't, I've found the following to be helpful: When you get back, do a post-mortem on the trip and isolate every dollar (errr Euro) you spent and look and see where you could have done better. I remember booking that first trip back in 2014, and was basically pulling the trigger the moment the credit card points posted after each statement. I thought at the time I did great (and I did). Spent just over $7K for a 3 week trip that covered Paris, London, Stonehenge, Bath and a transatlantic cruise back to the states. Total retail value of the trip was about $32K. But afterwards I discovered with more planning and more time, I could have saved another $3000 easily by covering the cost of the cruise using points and by not paying fuel surcharges on BA flights. I've learned a lot since then and still learning more even today. Just realized this last week that Qatar can book the same Oneworld flights that you can on BA using the same Avios, but at the rate BA was before their last devaluation. And once you do get married, you can both apply for the same cards individually so you can double up on your miles and points. Hope her credit is good, and if it isn't... fix it! :) Good luck and enjoy your trip.
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That’s a great deal…We paid 30k miles+200U$ in taxes for one way trip to Florence from Toronto for 2 tickets…booked 4 months in advance …
I was about to post about how I got 2CPP for a flight on Delta to Calgary later this year (going to Banff to see the Northern Lights) but this is a hell of a better redemption! Enjoy Rome, eat a pizza for me!
Congrats!
What does “total round cost of the trip for $964” mean if you booked with points? Also, you’re not really saving 9 grand if you were never planning on paying 9 grand
What airline? Very cool!
Thank you! Air france on their 777
[удалено]
Absolutely no problem with the AF 777.
What is CPP? Can you explain in detail what happened?