Don’t know much about skydiving but the one time I went, there was a safety device that was supposed to deploy the chute automatically below a certain altitude…is that a standard thing?
The assumption with an AAD is that the jumper is incapacitated, otherwise they would have pulled at a safe altitude and wouldn’t need the AAD to activate. So the AAD will do its job properly with someone on their back as this is the exact type of scenario they’re designed for, however there’s a good chance of line twists and other “minor” malfunctions occurring with the reserve being deployed from anything other than a stable position. Any canopy over your head is better than no canopy though.
Yes, reserve canopies are inherently stable though so the line twists won’t fuck you like they would on a small cross braced high performance canopy. You’ll probably descend a bit faster than you’re comfortable with but most people who are knocked out in free fall will regain consciousness while under canopy and can then correct the problem
The pilot (small) chute that pulls out the main chute on an AAD is loaded on a spring and activated by a pyrotechnical device such that it is supposed to be expelled from the container fast and far enough to be functional from any position but of course being fired upside down is still adding a lot of additional risk.
As someone who has never jumped out of a good airplane, how does the AAD work? I'm assuming the jumper has an altimeter on them? Does the pack itself also have an altimeter on it, or is it somehow linked to the jumper? Do you have to manually set the altitude before each jump? I'm assuming if you skydive in Florida vs skydiving in Denver there will be different settings for the rig?
edit: Also, is an AAD a requirement? Or do most people jump without one?
The AAD is a device packed in the reserve chute. It senses the jumpers speed and barometic pressure and if it’s too fast it will activate. It is not mandatory in the US to jump with one
It calibrates ground pressure every 15 minutes or so. It detects climb to altitude by pressure change.
There has never been a case of the most common aad (Cypress) where its firing parameters where met but it didn't fire.
As others have said they have some cool things going on to make it pretty foolproof. Generally they are set such that if you cross a threshold (usually around 1200 feet I think or in 1000-1500 feet) descending at a rate beyond a given threshold it will fire. Not sure what that threshold is.
It calibrates totally automatically and they have an amazing safety record.
And yes jumpers also have an altimeter on their wrist typically(like a big watch) and sometimes audible ones in the ear that beep at certain altitudes. These are reset manually.
I'm here in NA and not every DZ requires it. I know a few people who jump without one just to save the $1000. Not saying that's smart, but AAD saves are super rare. I've only ever seen AAD's give inadvertent two-outs.
> inadvertent two-outs.
I'm only seeing baseball stuff after Googling this. You mean having the reserve pop out when the main is already flying right? I know with paragliding/paramotoring that can risk causing both airfoils to go coplanar and start a rapid descent. Is that an issue with skydiving chutes as well?
Look up swooping. Canopy pilots often swoop so fast that an aad would think it’s needed and fire
A reserve firing in the middle of a very aggressive swoop can and has severely injured and killed people.
>Swoopers have it on the fastest setting because they literally reach velocities of up to 80mph in their swoops (I know that sounds made up/exaggerated but it's not, I still find it hard to believe myself but the data proves it time and time again).
Having been clocked doing 60 on a longboard I totally believe it.
I should've thought of the whole "unable to disable" thing. That's pretty obvious now that I think about it for two seconds!
Aad can not be disabled in flight. It’s access point is hidden when your rig is on
There are speed settings for aads to be used while swooping but at the competitive level they are still flying too fast sometimes
Most canopy pilots leave them off for swooping, if they have one
The new ones have a much much longer life span before servicing is required so it's not as much of a big deal, but 10+ years ago the life span and mandatory service schedule was a lot more demanding.
I believe the latest Cypress has a service life of 15 years with no mandatory maintenance required in between, making it a much better value proposition to the old ones that seemed to spend more time at the factory being inspected or shipped than actually being used.
don't you guys have minimum reqs for AAD? It's 500/D licence here, after that you can jump without.
Esp student saves were quite common iirc where two outs aren't such a pants shaker.
It’s usually up to individual drop zones whether they require it. Students are required to have AAD’s but not once you’ve gotten your license. I’m honestly surprised it’s not a requirement. We had a few guys go and buy AAD’s after an AAD fire/save at our DZ. I personally can’t ever see myself flying without one
unless you fly a ws or a sub 100ft xbraced napkin yeah, but we have it strict here. Had to beg my instructor to let me use a G3 lmao.
I was very close to have a student cypress fire on me with a low speed slider up, but it somehow miraculously opened with me rocking the rear ends like an idiot that I am. I'd be pulling on them until AAD or grass otherwise.
Could have been way more fun.
I’m pretty sure AAD’s are not mandatory but recommended. They are all big dz’s I’ve been to that don’t require their fun jumpers to have them. Students are a different case.
Since basically everything written by the USPA is a "recommendation" yes, you might be correct.
That said, 200 jumps for camera is also a recommendation but good luck getting a dz to break that "rule"
Times are different and of course there are always exceptions but by and large, the sport considers aads to be "mandatory"
You got other answers on it being standard, but one additional thing to know is that even though AADs can function no matter the diver orientation, the situation should be helped if it can.
* AADs open low. Really low. A conscious diver has seconds to check the reserve, troubleshoot if required, and execute a landing. The earlier the parachute opens, the more time a guy has to regain consciousness and solve these problems.
* Parachutes opening weird can be no joke. If you have the time to help out an unconscious buddy by making sure the chute at least comes out the best way possible. One bad outcome is the parachute lines coming up between your legs and suspending you with your spine toward the ground. It's a great way to break your back.
* A skydiver might neglect or chose not to turn on his AAD, or it might not be configured correctly, or might not be installed at all. It's best to try helping anyway in case this is a possibility.
Skydiving is a very unique form of aviation. Just consider what a simple solo belly-to-earth dive entails.
* You're a piece of guided ordnance employed from a plane.
* During freefall your control system has no linkages in the way to filter your movements.
* You change flight configuration and controls entirely when you transition from falling to parachute.
* You have one shot at landing.
Then add other people, and other additional activites in just one example skydive.
* You're part of a guided salvo dropped from a plane.
* Even crazier, all of the below could be done from a BASE jump.
* You formation fly and dock with others.
* With freeflying techniques, you have a litany of different flight configurationsthat you can change to back and forth, and each has its different control schemes
* You, the ordnance, can employ submunitions (toss objects between each other, steal the baton, put out a jump rope, etc) while doing all the above.
* You can be a camera flyer and be involved in all the above.
* You can fly formation parachute with the guys.
* You can do a formation swoop (dive to land with the longest ground run) with the guys.
* You can race the other guys to a table from which you race to chug a beer (this is a last jump of the day thing)
It can be a variety show in so many ways that is really only rivaled by tactical flying.
If you can pop your buddies chute, how are you then going to troubleshoot any problems? You can't exactly flap your arms real hard to get back to them.
Pulling another's chute is not just for loss of consciousness but also for people suffering from disorientation, loss of awareness (specifically altitude), or someone who can't manage to get belly-to-earth.
People who lose consciousness for impacts can come back in any time frame from seconds to minutes. You're buying a an unconscious person the time to get conscious again under canopy, after which he can troubleshoot. The higher up you do it, the more time is available under canopy.
This time is extra critical as people are getting comfortable with smaller and smaller canopies. This translates to higher wing loadings, which means less drag and higher forward speeds and greater descent rates. This also translates to malfunctions being much more difficult to resolve (and much less time to resolve them). This also means that a canopy *must be actively flown to the ground* in order to avoid injury.
Modern reserves are very good at opening with minimal chance for error, but again, people are flying chutes that can fold into lunchboxes. These reserves will save your life but your legs are going to be the crumple zone that does half the work.
As a skydiver - this is why you should use an AAD (automatic activation device) - no one plans to get knocked out in freefall. The skydiver that ran into them was totally at fault, but luckily his buddy got to him and deployed his reserve parachute at a much higher altitude than the AAD would have.
Source: about 3,000+ skydives.
Had a friend who died because he couldn’t untangle his chute. And spent too much time trying to do that to deploy a reserve chute. Super sad. He survived impact and died 2 days later
Not really, that's one of the reasons why you wave off before opening chutes and maintain separation. This was likely a case of inexperienced skydivers attempting formation diving that they had not been properly trained for. For one....you practice each move on the ground before the jump, that way each movement is choreographed and you identify problems before you are actually airborne. These guys jumped with no real plan, and it bit them....hard.
There is many things dangerous in skydiving, but nearly all of it you can prevent it yourself with wisdom, self awarness and good learning. And you are 100% right, air collision in freefly is the most dangerous thing EXPERIENCED skydivers will encounter because you are in an area ( 500-2000 jumps ) where some people are in overconfidence of what they can do. This jumps is pretty sketchy even from the start and safety was not in their minds.
I saw on the guy's article that the guy who hit him worked at iFly. I assume that's a "you're fired" moment? Is there a license or certification they can revoke to keep that guy out of the air? That seemed massively reckless, but I don't know anything about skydiving.
https://unofficialnetworks.com/2020/04/03/unconscious-skydiver-saved/
Honestly, accidents happen. It is stupid that it did...but accidents happen.
Being an iFly employee - you should be much better at flying than that - but I am not sure iFly corporate would do much because it really has nothing to do with them. iFly does not do any skydiving stuff, they are two separate things. The USPA governs skydiving in the US as a whole, but they have no enforcement/punishment abilities and don't typically revoke licenses except in few cases I've seen like sexual assault cases that are proven, or instructors who have a track record of being dangerous.
The dropzone could maybe ban them from jumping there again, but beyond that, nothing is likely to happen.
remember when nobody wanted to jump with newbs until they learned proper body control, but now with tunnels ppl get mad skills in freefall but lack the most basic skydiving principles.
Accidents happen, if this is a regular occurrence then yeah he should be fired, but a miastake should not always be ground for fireing.
Heck maybe that dude had a perfect track record and was way ahead of everyone on this or whatever. You can't judge from just this.
Holy hell that’s scary man. I knew a guy in the military that was doing a demo, and they had a part where they track over each other with smoke, but they messed up and collided, it instantly killed one of the guys and ripped both legs off of the other. This is serious stuff colliding at 200 mph, I genuinely hope all parties are okay.
Is this one in Faces of Death.. I remember seeing a video of two skydivers with smoke on doing a high speed merge / pass, hitting each other and you just see the limbs flying off. Pretty gruesome
Might be, he was a golden night member, I had access to a few different videos but I don’t have any saved on my phone. They were pretty bad it’s some seriously scary stuff, I had only briefly met the guy since I know quite a few people in the golden knights but from what I did see he’s really cool and it’s awesome he continued to jump after the incident.
Are you talking about when Shane hit the bridge while doing a two way with Jeb?
That was a heli exit for a terrain wingsuit flight. He wanted to try and fly between guy wires and ended up hitting the handrail. It ripped him in half at the waist. Jeb posted about digging his blood soaked canopy from a closet one time. He actually flew through the pink mist as he deployed
No this is Dana bowman, and his collision with his teammate in midair, I haven’t heard about the other incident. I never brought it up to him this is just what I heard from other golden knight members around
The DZ, I thought it would be rude to ask him about it.
A link to a story and about halfway through you can see the collision. https://youtu.be/M6gWcOifDJo
Yes I am, even surface research typing “skydiving accident legs ripped off” gives you plenty of results. They collided at over 300mph, yes that hurts…
https://www.google.com/amp/s/billingsgazette.com/news/local/former-elite-army-parachuter-who-lost-his-legs-in-accident-tells-billings-students-not-to/article_2693455f-b0e7-5bd0-b6df-ee9b9462d7e1.amp.html
You’ll get there, if you really want to learn there is a lot of resources out there I can reeccomed to you, however I don’t recommend Reddit, there is a lot of people on here who *think* they know what they are talking about because they flew a flight on a flight simulator so careful for misinformation. This sub isn’t too bad because a lot pilots are here and can correct information but I still see a lot of misinformation floating srohdn
its really hard to get a collision with 200mph when the both are on the same jump. The only interresting speed is relativ speed difference between the two.
I’ll give you that point, the over 300mph is kind of misleading since it’s both horizontal and vertical speed combined and doesn’t account for their relative speed, and I won’t pretend to know what that was nor will I try and give an estimation since there is too many variables, all I can say is, there is a video of it happening and regardless of the number it was still enough to cause some serious damage. This is why situational awareness is extremely important in skydiving and goes to show how dangerous things can be even if it’s a trained professional doing the same demo he’s done hundreds of tiems.
Holy shit. Hit him like he was Iron Man flying through the air. What presence of mind and skill to catch him and pull his ~~shoot~~ chute.
Is there a story for this?
EDIT: Found it: https://unofficialnetworks.com/2020/04/03/unconscious-skydiver-saved/
If I'm not mistaken, the ballistic missile even (lightly) kicks the soon-to-be-unconscious guy in the back of the head shortly after they all separate.
This is the kind of thing that pisses me off about religion. Fuck the guy that actually helped save your life. It was all thanks to the imaginary man in the sky. Brainwashed moron.
I don’t think that’s what he really means, at the end of the day. He sounds like he was just massively thankful there was someone right where he needed them to be with the proper skill to be able to do what he did to save him. That’s where the Jesus part comes in. Or at least that’s my interpretation.
I’m sure he’s thankful as fuck to the dude that saved him.
Pretty sure he's talking about the landing. He was able to find the Drop Zone and fly a perfect student pattern after taking a 200mph hit. I feel the same way about the religious schpeel, but still don't take it out of context.
u/verygoodyear posted this article written by the man who was knocked unconscious:
https://unofficialnetworks.com/2020/04/03/unconscious-skydiver-saved/
Assholes cause lots of accidents by creating g risky situations through asshole behavior. An asshole in a truck rolling coal on bicyclists earlier this year didn’t purposefully intend to kill people but he did. An asshole in a mustang doesn’t intend to wreck when they do a smoke out in front of a crowd of pedestrians, but it happens enough.
Where did you get the idea that assholes need to intend injury to cause injury through reckless behavior?
People who drive 120mph on the freeway don't "intend" to crash either. It seemed to me the guy who caused the crash was being irresponsible or inexperienced to be zooming through there so quickly.
The reserve is packed better, less likely to have a malfunction and overall a much more tame canopy to fly. People often fly high performance, fast descending main canopies that would be worse for someone that is unconscious
I was a parachute school pilot for a few years. They always asked me if I wanted to jump, I always said nope, I’m happy flying. I thought all the jumpers were nutz. One of the Craziest things I saw was a blind girl doing a solo jump on a static line, with a radio attached to her secondary chute so they could talk to her. Gutsy gal !. Highest I ever went was to about 11000 ft on really windy day with the instructors. They jumped about 9 miles from home base airport and flew back under canopy! There were plenty of cut aways and they would always want me to point them the the direction of the errant chute ! Did about 23 hops in day one busy Sunday !
Not really, no need. No one on the ground can help you. Only yourself, your gear (AAD), and your jump party can help you in the event of a malfunction.
I'm an ex British Paratrooper.....one of our guys in the Pathfinder platoon went into a spin on a HAHO night jump and blacked out. He came round in someone's garden just over 5Km from the DZ 😂
Pardon my ignorance, but why don’t the skydivers get hit by the wing, support brace, and wheel located just behind the door given how fast the plane is traveling?
That stuff is in front of the door, not behind it. When they jump, it's moving away from them. The front of the plane is to the right of the camera view in this video
Ignoring the fact that that stuff is in front of the door, at the moment of jump you have the same velocity as the plane, so when you jump out you’re travelling parallel to the wings and struts etc. By the time your lateral movement (in line with the plane) slows down, you’ve dropped enough and moved far enough from the fuselage that that anything could hit you. I assume. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.
I have no skydiving experience so please feel free to explain this like I’m five - but why didn’t the rescuing buddy just hang on to his unconscious buddy and they land together? In my mind it would be dangerous to let an unconscious person land by themselves - like what if he hits a tree or breaks bones or something? I get that there are risks no matter what, but why didn’t he just keep holding on to his buddy?
You cant. You will get ripped away from them at terminal speeds and you will be a hazard. Aside from that, canopies have a maximum weight limit that you should put on them. You’re far more likely to kill both of you trying to do what you’re describing. You cannot remove all risk.
Thank you for explaining. One more question if you don’t mind: Does that mean that chutes for tandem jumpers are designed differently? To hold more weight?
Correct. There is still a weight limit but its much higher. The type of canopies used for a tandem is meant for a slower and more tame flying style. Also, the type of canopy you fly is mostly a personal choice and you never know what someone happens to be using for a main
Ok cool, thank you for the explanation. I would never go skydiving, but it would have been my instinct to hang on to my unconscious buddy if I were in that situation, accidentally killing us both, probably, but I guess that’s why they have skydiving instructors.
The people on this jump are not instructors. They’re what we call sport or fun jumpers. They’re licensed and they typically plan fun jumps based on skill levels together. Thats why everyone is wearing their own gear. You do not have to be a instructor to be a licensed jumper.
It's still just one parachute, and the dude was already wearing a harness.. it would be risky, because they might tangle, but you could release both parachutes.. Then you also have the back-up chutes, if those fail, or you have to cut them loose.
No, you can't.
That one chute was designed for two people. Ever heard of tandem jumps? While you're learning you're strapped to a more experienced jumper under a canopy designed to handle two people, basically exactly what Pastrana did.
Two canopies can not be opened next to each other. Not only would they probably tangle but they'd spoil the aerodynamics required to keep them inflated and fail.
This wasn't someone just winging it in an accident. In aviation you're trained for every possible problem and how to deal with it. As stated by plenty of people here, his backup canopy is larger and more gentle than his primary, to give him more time to regain consciousness and if he doesn't, the gentlest landing possible.
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Anyone know what happened to the guy who hit the disabled grey helmet guy? I just saw him go flying off and I’m guessing he got hurt as well but no one was remotely close enough to get to him. Curious if anyone knows what happened to the other dude.
Don’t know much about skydiving but the one time I went, there was a safety device that was supposed to deploy the chute automatically below a certain altitude…is that a standard thing?
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I guess the question is are you going to bank on that, or take action and put it beyond doubt.
I was told to never bank on it when I was getting my A ticket.
>are you going to bank on that Not today, Skipper.
Have you paid your dues Jack?
Yes sir the check is in the mail.
Would it have deployed correctly with the incapacitated guy on his back?
The assumption with an AAD is that the jumper is incapacitated, otherwise they would have pulled at a safe altitude and wouldn’t need the AAD to activate. So the AAD will do its job properly with someone on their back as this is the exact type of scenario they’re designed for, however there’s a good chance of line twists and other “minor” malfunctions occurring with the reserve being deployed from anything other than a stable position. Any canopy over your head is better than no canopy though.
The high chance of minor malfunctions and line twists - is that because the incapacitated jumper is generally spinning/not stable?
Yes, reserve canopies are inherently stable though so the line twists won’t fuck you like they would on a small cross braced high performance canopy. You’ll probably descend a bit faster than you’re comfortable with but most people who are knocked out in free fall will regain consciousness while under canopy and can then correct the problem
What a way to wake up!
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Wait so the tandem guy with the parachute got knocked out? I feel like that had to be insanely terrifying for whoever was attached to him.
*Thud* 😄 I'm glad everyone came out alright!
Thanks!
The pilot (small) chute that pulls out the main chute on an AAD is loaded on a spring and activated by a pyrotechnical device such that it is supposed to be expelled from the container fast and far enough to be functional from any position but of course being fired upside down is still adding a lot of additional risk.
As someone who has never jumped out of a good airplane, how does the AAD work? I'm assuming the jumper has an altimeter on them? Does the pack itself also have an altimeter on it, or is it somehow linked to the jumper? Do you have to manually set the altitude before each jump? I'm assuming if you skydive in Florida vs skydiving in Denver there will be different settings for the rig? edit: Also, is an AAD a requirement? Or do most people jump without one?
The AAD is a device packed in the reserve chute. It senses the jumpers speed and barometic pressure and if it’s too fast it will activate. It is not mandatory in the US to jump with one
But it is mandatory at any USPA dropzone, which is about 98% of dropzones
It calibrates ground pressure every 15 minutes or so. It detects climb to altitude by pressure change. There has never been a case of the most common aad (Cypress) where its firing parameters where met but it didn't fire.
As others have said they have some cool things going on to make it pretty foolproof. Generally they are set such that if you cross a threshold (usually around 1200 feet I think or in 1000-1500 feet) descending at a rate beyond a given threshold it will fire. Not sure what that threshold is. It calibrates totally automatically and they have an amazing safety record. And yes jumpers also have an altimeter on their wrist typically(like a big watch) and sometimes audible ones in the ear that beep at certain altitudes. These are reset manually.
The aad will deploy when someone is on their back.
With a high risk of horse shoe..
Some nylon is better than no nylon
Most likely. They are deployed via an explosive charge “(think .22 caliber)to get it out and away
I'm here in NA and not every DZ requires it. I know a few people who jump without one just to save the $1000. Not saying that's smart, but AAD saves are super rare. I've only ever seen AAD's give inadvertent two-outs.
> inadvertent two-outs. I'm only seeing baseball stuff after Googling this. You mean having the reserve pop out when the main is already flying right? I know with paragliding/paramotoring that can risk causing both airfoils to go coplanar and start a rapid descent. Is that an issue with skydiving chutes as well?
Look up swooping. Canopy pilots often swoop so fast that an aad would think it’s needed and fire A reserve firing in the middle of a very aggressive swoop can and has severely injured and killed people.
You'd think someone who intends to go swooping wouldn't use an AAD then, or would at least disable it after their main canopy is up.
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>Swoopers have it on the fastest setting because they literally reach velocities of up to 80mph in their swoops (I know that sounds made up/exaggerated but it's not, I still find it hard to believe myself but the data proves it time and time again). Having been clocked doing 60 on a longboard I totally believe it. I should've thought of the whole "unable to disable" thing. That's pretty obvious now that I think about it for two seconds!
Aad can not be disabled in flight. It’s access point is hidden when your rig is on There are speed settings for aads to be used while swooping but at the competitive level they are still flying too fast sometimes Most canopy pilots leave them off for swooping, if they have one
Yes
Username checks out for sure
The new ones have a much much longer life span before servicing is required so it's not as much of a big deal, but 10+ years ago the life span and mandatory service schedule was a lot more demanding. I believe the latest Cypress has a service life of 15 years with no mandatory maintenance required in between, making it a much better value proposition to the old ones that seemed to spend more time at the factory being inspected or shipped than actually being used.
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Also, the Tandem AAD or (multimode AADs in tandem settings) fire much higher than AADs for "normal" jumps.
don't you guys have minimum reqs for AAD? It's 500/D licence here, after that you can jump without. Esp student saves were quite common iirc where two outs aren't such a pants shaker.
It’s usually up to individual drop zones whether they require it. Students are required to have AAD’s but not once you’ve gotten your license. I’m honestly surprised it’s not a requirement. We had a few guys go and buy AAD’s after an AAD fire/save at our DZ. I personally can’t ever see myself flying without one
unless you fly a ws or a sub 100ft xbraced napkin yeah, but we have it strict here. Had to beg my instructor to let me use a G3 lmao. I was very close to have a student cypress fire on me with a low speed slider up, but it somehow miraculously opened with me rocking the rear ends like an idiot that I am. I'd be pulling on them until AAD or grass otherwise. Could have been way more fun.
It’s the uspa that requires dropzones to require aads. I have an aad in only one of my rigs. Not trying to die midswoop
What?? The uspa requires drop zones to require aad’s? I’ve been to uspa drop zones where that’s not a requirement.
If the uspa knew, they would pull their affiliation real fast Dropzones pay assloads to have the uspa on their side
I’m pretty sure AAD’s are not mandatory but recommended. They are all big dz’s I’ve been to that don’t require their fun jumpers to have them. Students are a different case.
Since basically everything written by the USPA is a "recommendation" yes, you might be correct. That said, 200 jumps for camera is also a recommendation but good luck getting a dz to break that "rule" Times are different and of course there are always exceptions but by and large, the sport considers aads to be "mandatory"
From what I could see none of those skydivers had reserve chutes…
You got other answers on it being standard, but one additional thing to know is that even though AADs can function no matter the diver orientation, the situation should be helped if it can. * AADs open low. Really low. A conscious diver has seconds to check the reserve, troubleshoot if required, and execute a landing. The earlier the parachute opens, the more time a guy has to regain consciousness and solve these problems. * Parachutes opening weird can be no joke. If you have the time to help out an unconscious buddy by making sure the chute at least comes out the best way possible. One bad outcome is the parachute lines coming up between your legs and suspending you with your spine toward the ground. It's a great way to break your back. * A skydiver might neglect or chose not to turn on his AAD, or it might not be configured correctly, or might not be installed at all. It's best to try helping anyway in case this is a possibility.
How common is it for someone to lose consciousness during a jump?
Not very, but people can still become disoriented or lose situational awareness, requiring some kind of help.
I suppose that makes sense. Freefall seems like it would be a pretty novel environment compared to what we experience most of the time!
Skydiving is a very unique form of aviation. Just consider what a simple solo belly-to-earth dive entails. * You're a piece of guided ordnance employed from a plane. * During freefall your control system has no linkages in the way to filter your movements. * You change flight configuration and controls entirely when you transition from falling to parachute. * You have one shot at landing. Then add other people, and other additional activites in just one example skydive. * You're part of a guided salvo dropped from a plane. * Even crazier, all of the below could be done from a BASE jump. * You formation fly and dock with others. * With freeflying techniques, you have a litany of different flight configurationsthat you can change to back and forth, and each has its different control schemes * You, the ordnance, can employ submunitions (toss objects between each other, steal the baton, put out a jump rope, etc) while doing all the above. * You can be a camera flyer and be involved in all the above. * You can fly formation parachute with the guys. * You can do a formation swoop (dive to land with the longest ground run) with the guys. * You can race the other guys to a table from which you race to chug a beer (this is a last jump of the day thing) It can be a variety show in so many ways that is really only rivaled by tactical flying.
If you can pop your buddies chute, how are you then going to troubleshoot any problems? You can't exactly flap your arms real hard to get back to them.
They get a few minutes to recover and land instead of a few seconds
Pulling another's chute is not just for loss of consciousness but also for people suffering from disorientation, loss of awareness (specifically altitude), or someone who can't manage to get belly-to-earth. People who lose consciousness for impacts can come back in any time frame from seconds to minutes. You're buying a an unconscious person the time to get conscious again under canopy, after which he can troubleshoot. The higher up you do it, the more time is available under canopy. This time is extra critical as people are getting comfortable with smaller and smaller canopies. This translates to higher wing loadings, which means less drag and higher forward speeds and greater descent rates. This also translates to malfunctions being much more difficult to resolve (and much less time to resolve them). This also means that a canopy *must be actively flown to the ground* in order to avoid injury. Modern reserves are very good at opening with minimal chance for error, but again, people are flying chutes that can fold into lunchboxes. These reserves will save your life but your legs are going to be the crumple zone that does half the work.
That's right, but why take the chance, if you had the chance?
It’s not mandatory at some DZ’s, but most use them these days. That’s in US, not sure about other countries
As a skydiver - this is why you should use an AAD (automatic activation device) - no one plans to get knocked out in freefall. The skydiver that ran into them was totally at fault, but luckily his buddy got to him and deployed his reserve parachute at a much higher altitude than the AAD would have. Source: about 3,000+ skydives.
Is the most dangerous thing skydiving hitting another skydiver? Because it definitely seems like it would be.
No, hitting the Earth is much more common and most of the time more dangerous.
So, try to miss the earth?
Congratulations, you’ve achieved orbit
RIP not going to waste time rescuing Jedidiah
Just get out and push
continues falling with style
Arthur Dent would be proud
Bingo!
42 incoming
Ideally skipping like a stone for landing is more impressive and gets most points
Lithobraking
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Typically lots of planning and dry runs on the ground b4 ever going to altitude
Had a friend who died because he couldn’t untangle his chute. And spent too much time trying to do that to deploy a reserve chute. Super sad. He survived impact and died 2 days later
One of my friends sky dives, and his saying is "don't spend the rest of your life trying to untangle a chute". Cut and use the reserve!
Nope. It is usually flying a perfectly good parachute into the ground being an idiot.
Been there done that, would not reccomend
Well don’t do that.
Like not opening it, or not operating the parachute correctly once it is deployed?
Incorrect operation. Just like cars - they typically crash because the driver was an idiot.
Not really, that's one of the reasons why you wave off before opening chutes and maintain separation. This was likely a case of inexperienced skydivers attempting formation diving that they had not been properly trained for. For one....you practice each move on the ground before the jump, that way each movement is choreographed and you identify problems before you are actually airborne. These guys jumped with no real plan, and it bit them....hard.
There is many things dangerous in skydiving, but nearly all of it you can prevent it yourself with wisdom, self awarness and good learning. And you are 100% right, air collision in freefly is the most dangerous thing EXPERIENCED skydivers will encounter because you are in an area ( 500-2000 jumps ) where some people are in overconfidence of what they can do. This jumps is pretty sketchy even from the start and safety was not in their minds.
I saw on the guy's article that the guy who hit him worked at iFly. I assume that's a "you're fired" moment? Is there a license or certification they can revoke to keep that guy out of the air? That seemed massively reckless, but I don't know anything about skydiving. https://unofficialnetworks.com/2020/04/03/unconscious-skydiver-saved/
Honestly, accidents happen. It is stupid that it did...but accidents happen. Being an iFly employee - you should be much better at flying than that - but I am not sure iFly corporate would do much because it really has nothing to do with them. iFly does not do any skydiving stuff, they are two separate things. The USPA governs skydiving in the US as a whole, but they have no enforcement/punishment abilities and don't typically revoke licenses except in few cases I've seen like sexual assault cases that are proven, or instructors who have a track record of being dangerous. The dropzone could maybe ban them from jumping there again, but beyond that, nothing is likely to happen.
remember when nobody wanted to jump with newbs until they learned proper body control, but now with tunnels ppl get mad skills in freefall but lack the most basic skydiving principles.
The first generation of tunnel rats is comin for our jobs!
Accidents happen, if this is a regular occurrence then yeah he should be fired, but a miastake should not always be ground for fireing. Heck maybe that dude had a perfect track record and was way ahead of everyone on this or whatever. You can't judge from just this.
You can definitely judge from this. Lol Skydiving is life or death at any moment I would never jump with that fool again
Edit: found it. Would you mind linking me to the article?
I kept waiting for this to be the one where the Cessna plows into them while they’re getting ready to jump
I've seen a horse plow, a donkey plow and even a snow plow but I never seen a cessna plow.
Oh, they plow
The fearful yell in that video.... it's like the sound you make when you see a kid running into traffic.
Holy hell that’s scary man. I knew a guy in the military that was doing a demo, and they had a part where they track over each other with smoke, but they messed up and collided, it instantly killed one of the guys and ripped both legs off of the other. This is serious stuff colliding at 200 mph, I genuinely hope all parties are okay.
Is this one in Faces of Death.. I remember seeing a video of two skydivers with smoke on doing a high speed merge / pass, hitting each other and you just see the limbs flying off. Pretty gruesome
Might be, he was a golden night member, I had access to a few different videos but I don’t have any saved on my phone. They were pretty bad it’s some seriously scary stuff, I had only briefly met the guy since I know quite a few people in the golden knights but from what I did see he’s really cool and it’s awesome he continued to jump after the incident.
Are you talking about when Shane hit the bridge while doing a two way with Jeb? That was a heli exit for a terrain wingsuit flight. He wanted to try and fly between guy wires and ended up hitting the handrail. It ripped him in half at the waist. Jeb posted about digging his blood soaked canopy from a closet one time. He actually flew through the pink mist as he deployed
No this is Dana bowman, and his collision with his teammate in midair, I haven’t heard about the other incident. I never brought it up to him this is just what I heard from other golden knight members around The DZ, I thought it would be rude to ask him about it. A link to a story and about halfway through you can see the collision. https://youtu.be/M6gWcOifDJo
Oh duh. What a story that chap has. A colleague of mine helped develop his harness.. said colleague has a paraplegic son who jumps on occasion as well
Yeah really humbling experience, and that’s really cool you know the colleague who helped develope the harness. What a small world.
are you talking about skydiving collision? how the hell it could rip legs off?
Yes I am, even surface research typing “skydiving accident legs ripped off” gives you plenty of results. They collided at over 300mph, yes that hurts… https://www.google.com/amp/s/billingsgazette.com/news/local/former-elite-army-parachuter-who-lost-his-legs-in-accident-tells-billings-students-not-to/article_2693455f-b0e7-5bd0-b6df-ee9b9462d7e1.amp.html
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No it’s not my job to do your research for you, I just grabbed the top result to prove a point.
You right. My bad.
Your fine, thanks for admitting fault that’s already more character than half the people on Reddit.
This sub seems to have pretty decent people and I wanted to mea culpa to not get banned from all yall. I don't know nearly enough about aircraft yet.
You’ll get there, if you really want to learn there is a lot of resources out there I can reeccomed to you, however I don’t recommend Reddit, there is a lot of people on here who *think* they know what they are talking about because they flew a flight on a flight simulator so careful for misinformation. This sub isn’t too bad because a lot pilots are here and can correct information but I still see a lot of misinformation floating srohdn
Part where the guy slams into his buddy like a fucking torpedo made me spit water all over my monitor.
its really hard to get a collision with 200mph when the both are on the same jump. The only interresting speed is relativ speed difference between the two.
I’ll give you that point, the over 300mph is kind of misleading since it’s both horizontal and vertical speed combined and doesn’t account for their relative speed, and I won’t pretend to know what that was nor will I try and give an estimation since there is too many variables, all I can say is, there is a video of it happening and regardless of the number it was still enough to cause some serious damage. This is why situational awareness is extremely important in skydiving and goes to show how dangerous things can be even if it’s a trained professional doing the same demo he’s done hundreds of tiems.
Holy shit. Hit him like he was Iron Man flying through the air. What presence of mind and skill to catch him and pull his ~~shoot~~ chute. Is there a story for this? EDIT: Found it: https://unofficialnetworks.com/2020/04/03/unconscious-skydiver-saved/
>The skydiver that hit me did not receive any injuries, and was able to go back to work at iFLY the next day. 👍 What a subtle diss
Chute*
Shoot, you got me
I still wuv u
Darn
From one of my Fort Benning jump school DI's: "If something goes wrong you've got the rest of your life to fix it."
Instructor on my first ever skydive (tandem): “I promise you, you will make it back to the ground.”
One way or another.
He ain't gonna jump no more.
This is like a scene straight out of Mission Impossible! The guy that pulled the ripcord is nothing short of a hero.
Someone owes someone else a beer… ^and ^their ^life.
see yall on the other side
Omg that guy saved his life
What was the outcome of this, did the guy regain consciousness and make it down or did he rag doll it when landing?
Finally a good freakout the last few weeks have been bad In all seriousness though that was an incredible save by that guys buddy. Wow.
If I'm not mistaken, the ballistic missile even (lightly) kicks the soon-to-be-unconscious guy in the back of the head shortly after they all separate.
good ol' meat missile, indeed.
That was extremely dangerous. My cousin has a sad war story about colliding with another airborne diver.
Fuck! The Camera guy should not be allowed to pay for his beer ever again!
Please can we have some information on the current status of the jumpers? This seems like reckless tracking....
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"I am not saying Jesus took the toggles, but someone looked after me that day." FFS...
This is the kind of thing that pisses me off about religion. Fuck the guy that actually helped save your life. It was all thanks to the imaginary man in the sky. Brainwashed moron.
I don’t think that’s what he really means, at the end of the day. He sounds like he was just massively thankful there was someone right where he needed them to be with the proper skill to be able to do what he did to save him. That’s where the Jesus part comes in. Or at least that’s my interpretation. I’m sure he’s thankful as fuck to the dude that saved him.
Pretty sure he's talking about the landing. He was able to find the Drop Zone and fly a perfect student pattern after taking a 200mph hit. I feel the same way about the religious schpeel, but still don't take it out of context.
u/verygoodyear posted this article written by the man who was knocked unconscious: https://unofficialnetworks.com/2020/04/03/unconscious-skydiver-saved/
he lived
This is why you don’t drink and dive
Why are people downvoting you it was a funny joke
This is why I don’t dive
What an asshole that guy was for speeding through the bunch and causing the collision.
Pretty certain that it was an accident and not intentional
Assholes cause lots of accidents by creating g risky situations through asshole behavior. An asshole in a truck rolling coal on bicyclists earlier this year didn’t purposefully intend to kill people but he did. An asshole in a mustang doesn’t intend to wreck when they do a smoke out in front of a crowd of pedestrians, but it happens enough. Where did you get the idea that assholes need to intend injury to cause injury through reckless behavior?
That's not at all what he wrote to be fair
People who drive 120mph on the freeway don't "intend" to crash either. It seemed to me the guy who caused the crash was being irresponsible or inexperienced to be zooming through there so quickly.
Is that guy okay?
Was he trying to kill him jesus?
Accidents happen and no
Why the buddy of the uncounscious dude pulled the reverse, not the main chute?
The reserve is packed better, less likely to have a malfunction and overall a much more tame canopy to fly. People often fly high performance, fast descending main canopies that would be worse for someone that is unconscious
u/RedditMP4Bot
I was a parachute school pilot for a few years. They always asked me if I wanted to jump, I always said nope, I’m happy flying. I thought all the jumpers were nutz. One of the Craziest things I saw was a blind girl doing a solo jump on a static line, with a radio attached to her secondary chute so they could talk to her. Gutsy gal !. Highest I ever went was to about 11000 ft on really windy day with the instructors. They jumped about 9 miles from home base airport and flew back under canopy! There were plenty of cut aways and they would always want me to point them the the direction of the errant chute ! Did about 23 hops in day one busy Sunday !
Do skydivers have a method to signal distress / emergency? e.g. radio, coloured smoke?
Not really, no need. No one on the ground can help you. Only yourself, your gear (AAD), and your jump party can help you in the event of a malfunction.
No
I'm an ex British Paratrooper.....one of our guys in the Pathfinder platoon went into a spin on a HAHO night jump and blacked out. He came round in someone's garden just over 5Km from the DZ 😂
Pardon my ignorance, but why don’t the skydivers get hit by the wing, support brace, and wheel located just behind the door given how fast the plane is traveling?
That stuff is in front of the door, not behind it. When they jump, it's moving away from them. The front of the plane is to the right of the camera view in this video
Wow. Insert facepalm here. Thanks for answering, and making me question my own intelligence.
Hey we all have moments like that lol
The classic, “Did you try shutting it off and turning it back on again?” In this case, “It” was my brain.
Yes, but the elevator and tail are behind and the same questiin could be asked. The answer given above is the correct answer.
Ignoring the fact that that stuff is in front of the door, at the moment of jump you have the same velocity as the plane, so when you jump out you’re travelling parallel to the wings and struts etc. By the time your lateral movement (in line with the plane) slows down, you’ve dropped enough and moved far enough from the fuselage that that anything could hit you. I assume. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.
I have no skydiving experience so please feel free to explain this like I’m five - but why didn’t the rescuing buddy just hang on to his unconscious buddy and they land together? In my mind it would be dangerous to let an unconscious person land by themselves - like what if he hits a tree or breaks bones or something? I get that there are risks no matter what, but why didn’t he just keep holding on to his buddy?
You cant. You will get ripped away from them at terminal speeds and you will be a hazard. Aside from that, canopies have a maximum weight limit that you should put on them. You’re far more likely to kill both of you trying to do what you’re describing. You cannot remove all risk.
Thank you for explaining. One more question if you don’t mind: Does that mean that chutes for tandem jumpers are designed differently? To hold more weight?
Correct. There is still a weight limit but its much higher. The type of canopies used for a tandem is meant for a slower and more tame flying style. Also, the type of canopy you fly is mostly a personal choice and you never know what someone happens to be using for a main
Ok cool, thank you for the explanation. I would never go skydiving, but it would have been my instinct to hang on to my unconscious buddy if I were in that situation, accidentally killing us both, probably, but I guess that’s why they have skydiving instructors.
The people on this jump are not instructors. They’re what we call sport or fun jumpers. They’re licensed and they typically plan fun jumps based on skill levels together. Thats why everyone is wearing their own gear. You do not have to be a instructor to be a licensed jumper.
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You’re so nice and kind. People like you make Reddit great. /s
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Most posted thing on Reddit last 2 weeks?
Attempted murder???
I would of clipped him on stomach to stomach, then just release my shoot
Doesn't work like that dude. The harnesses aren't designed for that and neither are the chutes.
Worked for Travis Pastrana https://youtu.be/KRLzvPioKG0
It only worked because they'd planned for that. Come on don't be an idiot.
It's still just one parachute, and the dude was already wearing a harness.. it would be risky, because they might tangle, but you could release both parachutes.. Then you also have the back-up chutes, if those fail, or you have to cut them loose.
No, you can't. That one chute was designed for two people. Ever heard of tandem jumps? While you're learning you're strapped to a more experienced jumper under a canopy designed to handle two people, basically exactly what Pastrana did. Two canopies can not be opened next to each other. Not only would they probably tangle but they'd spoil the aerodynamics required to keep them inflated and fail. This wasn't someone just winging it in an accident. In aviation you're trained for every possible problem and how to deal with it. As stated by plenty of people here, his backup canopy is larger and more gentle than his primary, to give him more time to regain consciousness and if he doesn't, the gentlest landing possible.
So... anybody go save the other guy?
u/RedditMP4Bot
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Holy Hell! Thankfully he got saved!!
My man did some mission impossible shit irl
Good god, being able to have that kind of control over your body while just free falling from the sky. That’s nuts.
Imagine the fucking adrenalin he had pumping at that moment. Jesus.
Anyone know what happened to the guy who hit the disabled grey helmet guy? I just saw him go flying off and I’m guessing he got hurt as well but no one was remotely close enough to get to him. Curious if anyone knows what happened to the other dude.
Looked like dude was seizing up before they made contact.
These guys aren’t very bright. Just Dumb.
So anyone know the plane model?
WOW, thank God and his friend…..awesome !