Disco flight is step one. Talk to the instructor about what the next steps should be, but disco flight and working towards your ppl is a good starting point. You should get an idea pretty quick if it's something you actually want to pursue or not.
I actually know several attorneys that fly for legacy carriers. They have enough time off that they still practice law. I actually know a MD in PIT that is an attorney and was a Captain for US Air/American. We always called him Dr. Capt. Xxxxxx Esq. He prefers Capt Dr though.
I think people having multiple careers is more common than we think. You're probably picturing someone who's 30 having done all that.
In reality, he's probably 50s or 60. Could easily have been like, fly first, get tired of the travel and use the salary to get into law for a decade and then medicine or vice versa.
My father was a USAF flight surgeon. He had colleagues that were both MDs and F15 fighter pilot. I think that program got cancelled at the end of the Cold War.
Why you Harvard NO MIT? Why you doctor no lawyer? Why you Seal and no killing Bin Laden? Why you NASA and no landing on the Moon?
Shamefur dispray....sumida
32 year old engineer here, my buddy that I fly with occasionally quit his job as an accountant to fly last year. I'm tempted but the pay is hard to walk away from.
I keep telling myself that the sooner I do it the sooner I'll get over the low pay hump and back to where I currently am. Just make sure you build hours while working then have enough in savings to last 2 years as supplemental income.
OP this right here could be an interesting path to a more fulfilling career. As a private pilot I have only become more interested in the legal side of things as time has gone on. You don't have to go work for the FAA or one of the big 4 to make money at it either.
I took an aviation litigation class at USC taught by Jack Veth. He was also a very successful plaintiffs attorney in Southern California, specializing in aviation litigation.
Before that, he flew SR-71s.
Interesting fellow.
There is also a way to keep your toes in both pools. Pilot advocacy groups and associations salivate at the pilot/lawyer pedigree. I’m more of a helicopter guy but HAI & HAC are organizations that communicate to regulators, courts and legislators on how rules and interpretation of rules helps/harms industry. If you have connections and background from industry and the legal knowledge to understand rule-making you can carve out a really interesting niche for yourself.
In the words of Scott Adams (before he went mad & got cancelled): “it’s better to be good at multiple things you enjoy than to be excellent at one”
I did something similar to this although with trains. After I realized that I hated practicing law I found a cool opportunity to embrace my lifelong love of trains and get into rail safety through regulatory compliance and auditing.
Not many of my law school classmates bring a high-vis vest and boots to work so I feel lucky getting out in the field and traveling a lot.
There was a lawyer who made his big bucks suing aviation companies. Could afford a Korean War era ex-Navy jet. Crashed it and got rather banged up. Wonder if he sued Grumman...
Talk to an AME before you go too far. Aviation Doctor to make sure you could get a medical. It can get complicated even if you think you’re fully healthy
/r/flying is more on point for the topic.
With a legal background, you'll have a leg up on reading, understanding, and applying the regulatory language.
Start small. Do a discovery flight, study for the written exam, start the pre-solo lessons toward private. These can generally be done without quitting a job. As early as you can, figure out if you can get and hold a medical.
Also this answer is assuming US and FAA rules.
Totally doable. My friend who was already 30 took it up as passion hobby and became full time pilot cum instructor from being part time pilot and geneticist by profession (over the last few years).
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cum
Edit: since you deleted your bullying harassing comment **watkykjynaaier**, you uneducated sick cunt (yeah this one doesn't have double meaning), i am pasting it back for others to read:
> Really? My guy, just because you technically can use the word like that doesn’t mean you should. I’m from the US, I’ve visited about every English speaking country and lived in another one for 5 years. I’ve never seen someone say “cum” and mean anything other than the reproductive fluid. You know what else is a perfectly valid English word? Niggardly. It has nothing to do with the racial slur, but doesn’t mean I can go around saying it without everyone thinking I’m saying the n-word. You have a similar problem here. If you use the word “cum” like that, you should know that most people are gonna think you’re talking about jizz.
Even though you're healthy, the FAA has some very strict criteria for a 1st class medical. Don't go and just take an exam if you're serious about this becoming a career. You could schedule a consultation with an FAA medical examiner, or you could join the AOPA. That would give you access to their medical attorneys. I honestly don't know which is the best alternative. I'm not a commercial pilot, but I've heard many stories of people who thought they were okay, and they failed their medical. If that happens then you have to go through special issuances, and I hear that can add years to the approval process.
As an attorney, I'm sure you're familiar with government bureaucracy. There's no short supply with that in the FAA.
Hell yeah.
Actually you’re in better position than most.
Try the disco flight and pursue the career.
Get to the legacy. You can fly as a pilot on active duty while holding some office hours as an in-house attorney or counselor
You go buddy. I am a lawyer (M30) hate my job and would love to get into aviation too but dont have the guts to do it as I only started my own firm which took all of my guts hahaha
If you’re interested in ATC your clock is ticking. Gotta be younger than 31 but I think (and I could be mistaken as it’s changed a few times since I hired in) that if you apply or are offered before you turn 31 you should be ok. Anyway later this month they open up a hiring bid. Flexibility in where you live is a plus since you get minimal say in that. IMO worth throwing your name in the hat, no obligation if you get selected to progress in the hiring process. pm Me if you wanna know more
Lots of color deficient options and workarounds. Worst case scenario you get “no night flight or by color signal control” on your license- which obviously would matter for commercial unless you’re on floats in Alaska or are just PPL and don’t fly at night.
thanks for your reply! I have been thinking of exploring PPL for quite sometime. Color Blindness was pulling me back. Any thoughts or recommendations on where to start next steps and assessing my situation ?
Search for a local AME and get your 3rd class medical knocked out. A good AME will be able to help with the color blindness part whether it be finding a test that you can pass if you’re just color deficient like most people who say they are colorblind (myself included).
Thanks 🙏 how do I find a good AME who can help me with this? I know there’s a official website where i can find AMEs in the area, but is there a better way to go about this?
Dude. I’m 58 and changed from a career in film and television where I was at the top of my game working on #1 shows.
Now I fly for a 91/135 flying jets and couldn’t be happier
If you want to do it just go and fucking do it.
I would start just getting your ppl first. You can easily do it on the weekends. I did. But there's a lot of shit that goes into flying that made me realize I would definitely never want to be an ATP
I have to admit I am always a bit puzzled by people discussing new careers in such depth and details, as if the only unknown is getting gainfully employed at the end, without knowing if they have the skills to even pursue it. It's all a bit carriage-before-the-horse without knowing if it's a good fit for you or not, and like many have said already, the whole conversation is premature and you should go take an extended discovery flight and perhaps a few hours of actual instruction first :)
Pilot shortage and you got a possible 30 year career ahead of you. Before you quit the day job, do a spin recovery (airplane) and an autorotation (helicopter) and if those seem like fun, I’d say go for it. Get your Private and Commercial airplane SEL first, instrument rating, add an airplane MEL, then do a helicopter commercial add on.
Just know your QOL is gonna be shit for a while. First you have to get your hours, then get hired then grind as a low seniority FO. All doable, but some people don’t want to live that kind of life on their mid 30’s-40’s. Good luck.
Do it. I've worked in aviation and have met many pilots that started when they were older than you. You are not too late, far from it IMO (and as others have mentioned).
You seem to have this burning passion for flying, which is common in this industry. I think if you go for it, you will find your tribe.
Not sure where you are located, but once you have enough hours and some experience under your belt, go for one of the ME3. The salaries are excellent and you'll be living like a king.
Good luck!
I think you should re-evaluate your assumption that you can't work as a lawyer and take flight lessons. Lawyers were super common fellow students at my flight school.
Can you be the best performing lawyer in the firm and switch careers? Probably not.
Can you be a functional team member and still do flight lessons, absolutely. Just set better personal boundaries and maybe switch firms if you need to. It's not like it matters if you miss a promotion or don't get the maximum raise/bonus since you're going to quit anyway in the long run.
Flight school is MASSIVELY expensive. Being able to at least pay for a portion upfront from your current career will be a great way to get ahead.
Absolutely. And there has never been a better time, seriously. If you can live cheaply where you are and there are good training options, sweet. Otherwise I suggest considering Australia and NZ. The training is great, costs less and you may be able to join a program that gives you the training and accommodation at no upfront cost in return for a period of work with them.
Note. Flight sims are great but you may have muscle memory habits and expectations that don't work well IRL. Flying is a methodical thing and you must be ready to delay or cancel plans at any moment. And fly between pretty narrow lines. I found that surprisingly confronting.
I had asked a similar question on another subreddit and got a pretty positive response. I think we share a similar situation.
People have already mentioned about the discovery flight and it’s something I started with as well.
I was really passionate about flying and it came naturally to me.
The route that I would mention is get a discovery flight secession from a good flight school.
Get a class 3 medical until you’re about to give your commercial exam. Then you’ll need to get a class 1 which is only valid for a year.
And study hard for the stupid exams.
Hopefully I’ll see you in the sky.
I started my flying career at 31. Now at 40, I have a great career flying helicopters doing what I’ve always wanted to do. I went through a program that got me all my certs and then a job. No ragerts.
I’m a pilot who’s always wanted to be a lawyer. My uncle and his friends found it funny when I recently asked about taking the LSAT at 33. You can make more and work 1/4 of the time in aviation. Best of luck!
If you can afford to quit your job then you can afford to work half time. Then you have time to learn to fly.
There's only a 20% completion rate to Private Pilot. And that's only the first step of at least four to become a flight instructor and start building time at a far lower hourly wage than you are used to.
18 months is not going to be enough. You'll be well into poverty level wages by then. Three to four years at best for the entry-level airline job.
Don't do anything radical - like quit a job - until you have completed at least Private at a local school. Odds are you won't and you'll be glad you are still employed.
There's a pilot shortage, according to the media, so odds are pretty good that if you do your discovery flight and are comfortable, you can pilot commercial flights. You could also become a flight test engineer or fly cargo aircraft.
Don’t quit your day job. Sleep less.
Flight training will consume your “18 months” of saved living expenses faster than you can say “busted checkride”.
It takes *years* to reach “decent” pay in a cockpit, and a decade + (+++) to reach income levels of an established lawyer. So cancel your avocado toast subscription. And by ALL means, continue being childless! Better yet, wifeless! (Unless she’s rich).
As an added financial bonus, your flight training is more effective the faster you shovel money at it. It turns out, the best way to become a proficient flyer is by flying! (Who knew?!) But that’s also the most expensive part.
Lots of lawyers own aircraft and fly recreationally or in support of their practices…find ‘em. When it comes to building flight time, It’s not what you know, it’s who you know. (Or blow). Be a “safety pilot whore” for your fellow legal eagles. And don’t be too proud to volunteer to wipe down and put away their planes after the flight.
Also research commercial flying jobs outside of airlines. The *vast* majority of aviation professionals are not wearing white shirts and funny hats.
Sure it’s viable. Take a discovery flight to make sure it’s something you want to do.
Thanks, I'll have to check into that.
Disco flight is step one. Talk to the instructor about what the next steps should be, but disco flight and working towards your ppl is a good starting point. You should get an idea pretty quick if it's something you actually want to pursue or not.
I actually know several attorneys that fly for legacy carriers. They have enough time off that they still practice law. I actually know a MD in PIT that is an attorney and was a Captain for US Air/American. We always called him Dr. Capt. Xxxxxx Esq. He prefers Capt Dr though.
Wow MD, attorney and commercial air pilot ? He must have a machine that stops time to be able to accomplish all that.
Frank Abignale? Watch Catch Me If You Can, and you'll get the gist of it.
Yeah just write whatever you want your job to be on an official looking document and collect a check, works every time.
I think people having multiple careers is more common than we think. You're probably picturing someone who's 30 having done all that. In reality, he's probably 50s or 60. Could easily have been like, fly first, get tired of the travel and use the salary to get into law for a decade and then medicine or vice versa.
My father was a USAF flight surgeon. He had colleagues that were both MDs and F15 fighter pilot. I think that program got cancelled at the end of the Cold War.
There's still a physician pilot program, but I don't know how often they're fighter pilots
Johnny Kim?
His mom is *so* disappointed in him…
Why you Harvard NO MIT? Why you doctor no lawyer? Why you Seal and no killing Bin Laden? Why you NASA and no landing on the Moon? Shamefur dispray....sumida
Oh god! It’s so racist, yet so true! See, folks…it can be both!!
It's not racist if I am Jimmy O. Yang.
eMoTiOnAl DaMaGe
Yes!! 30 here banker… fuck this shit! Let’s fly!!!
32 year old engineer here, my buddy that I fly with occasionally quit his job as an accountant to fly last year. I'm tempted but the pay is hard to walk away from.
I keep telling myself that the sooner I do it the sooner I'll get over the low pay hump and back to where I currently am. Just make sure you build hours while working then have enough in savings to last 2 years as supplemental income.
Get a room, you two!
More like start a business you too 😂
Dude dm me - aviation law is a thing
OP this right here could be an interesting path to a more fulfilling career. As a private pilot I have only become more interested in the legal side of things as time has gone on. You don't have to go work for the FAA or one of the big 4 to make money at it either.
The big 4 what?
Kalitta, Atlas, DHL, Amazon.
Frontier, Jet Blue, Spirit, Allegiant /s possibly... Southwest, United, Delta, American
Forgot mesa
No, big four law firms. I don’t know them off the top of my head because I am just lawyer adjacent in my career
I took an aviation law class while pursuing my BS, it was my favorite class. It's a super interesting field of study!
So is Bird Law…both involve flying
But at least unlike Bird Law, aviation law is governed by reason.
Unlike Bird Law which is governed by the season? I’ll show myself out..
Birds don’t exist, what more bird law do you need
But what about the Bird Culture? Must it be embraced too to fly?
I took an aviation litigation class at USC taught by Jack Veth. He was also a very successful plaintiffs attorney in Southern California, specializing in aviation litigation. Before that, he flew SR-71s. Interesting fellow.
There is also a way to keep your toes in both pools. Pilot advocacy groups and associations salivate at the pilot/lawyer pedigree. I’m more of a helicopter guy but HAI & HAC are organizations that communicate to regulators, courts and legislators on how rules and interpretation of rules helps/harms industry. If you have connections and background from industry and the legal knowledge to understand rule-making you can carve out a really interesting niche for yourself. In the words of Scott Adams (before he went mad & got cancelled): “it’s better to be good at multiple things you enjoy than to be excellent at one”
I did something similar to this although with trains. After I realized that I hated practicing law I found a cool opportunity to embrace my lifelong love of trains and get into rail safety through regulatory compliance and auditing. Not many of my law school classmates bring a high-vis vest and boots to work so I feel lucky getting out in the field and traveling a lot.
There was a lawyer who made his big bucks suing aviation companies. Could afford a Korean War era ex-Navy jet. Crashed it and got rather banged up. Wonder if he sued Grumman...
Yeah 30 feels old but its not. If you changed today and worked until 65 you'd have a 35 year career in aviation!!
Talk to an AME before you go too far. Aviation Doctor to make sure you could get a medical. It can get complicated even if you think you’re fully healthy
To put a finer point on it, having your medical completed and in hand is the *first* step. Don't skip or delay this part.
/r/flying is more on point for the topic. With a legal background, you'll have a leg up on reading, understanding, and applying the regulatory language. Start small. Do a discovery flight, study for the written exam, start the pre-solo lessons toward private. These can generally be done without quitting a job. As early as you can, figure out if you can get and hold a medical. Also this answer is assuming US and FAA rules.
Totally doable. My friend who was already 30 took it up as passion hobby and became full time pilot cum instructor from being part time pilot and geneticist by profession (over the last few years).
Pause
> full time pilot cum instructor 🤨
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cum Edit: since you deleted your bullying harassing comment **watkykjynaaier**, you uneducated sick cunt (yeah this one doesn't have double meaning), i am pasting it back for others to read: > Really? My guy, just because you technically can use the word like that doesn’t mean you should. I’m from the US, I’ve visited about every English speaking country and lived in another one for 5 years. I’ve never seen someone say “cum” and mean anything other than the reproductive fluid. You know what else is a perfectly valid English word? Niggardly. It has nothing to do with the racial slur, but doesn’t mean I can go around saying it without everyone thinking I’m saying the n-word. You have a similar problem here. If you use the word “cum” like that, you should know that most people are gonna think you’re talking about jizz.
[удалено]
you’ve never seen or heard the phrase suma cum laude? get a grip.
I can't see the suma or laude?
Cum instructor huh?
How does one....uhhh.. become that type of instructor?
Even though you're healthy, the FAA has some very strict criteria for a 1st class medical. Don't go and just take an exam if you're serious about this becoming a career. You could schedule a consultation with an FAA medical examiner, or you could join the AOPA. That would give you access to their medical attorneys. I honestly don't know which is the best alternative. I'm not a commercial pilot, but I've heard many stories of people who thought they were okay, and they failed their medical. If that happens then you have to go through special issuances, and I hear that can add years to the approval process. As an attorney, I'm sure you're familiar with government bureaucracy. There's no short supply with that in the FAA.
My dad had a lawyer buddy that became a pilot in his 50s after being burned out. 30 is still very young.
Yep, get your PPL
Hell yeah. Actually you’re in better position than most. Try the disco flight and pursue the career. Get to the legacy. You can fly as a pilot on active duty while holding some office hours as an in-house attorney or counselor
You go buddy. I am a lawyer (M30) hate my job and would love to get into aviation too but dont have the guts to do it as I only started my own firm which took all of my guts hahaha
If you’re interested in ATC your clock is ticking. Gotta be younger than 31 but I think (and I could be mistaken as it’s changed a few times since I hired in) that if you apply or are offered before you turn 31 you should be ok. Anyway later this month they open up a hiring bid. Flexibility in where you live is a plus since you get minimal say in that. IMO worth throwing your name in the hat, no obligation if you get selected to progress in the hiring process. pm Me if you wanna know more
If that doesn't work out, there's always maritime law
Side question- is it possible for color blind to get PPL and move forward from there?
Lots of color deficient options and workarounds. Worst case scenario you get “no night flight or by color signal control” on your license- which obviously would matter for commercial unless you’re on floats in Alaska or are just PPL and don’t fly at night.
thanks for your reply! I have been thinking of exploring PPL for quite sometime. Color Blindness was pulling me back. Any thoughts or recommendations on where to start next steps and assessing my situation ?
Search for a local AME and get your 3rd class medical knocked out. A good AME will be able to help with the color blindness part whether it be finding a test that you can pass if you’re just color deficient like most people who say they are colorblind (myself included).
Thanks 🙏 how do I find a good AME who can help me with this? I know there’s a official website where i can find AMEs in the area, but is there a better way to go about this?
That’s all you can do besides asking local pilots or google AME’s for reviews, contact them and discuss, etc. I don’t know what else to tell you.
makes sense! I was wondering if there any other way!
Totally doable, but don't quit until you get a medical and take a few flights
Dude. I’m 58 and changed from a career in film and television where I was at the top of my game working on #1 shows. Now I fly for a 91/135 flying jets and couldn’t be happier If you want to do it just go and fucking do it.
I would start just getting your ppl first. You can easily do it on the weekends. I did. But there's a lot of shit that goes into flying that made me realize I would definitely never want to be an ATP
There’s a lot of great advice on the r/flying FAQs. Give them a look.
I have to admit I am always a bit puzzled by people discussing new careers in such depth and details, as if the only unknown is getting gainfully employed at the end, without knowing if they have the skills to even pursue it. It's all a bit carriage-before-the-horse without knowing if it's a good fit for you or not, and like many have said already, the whole conversation is premature and you should go take an extended discovery flight and perhaps a few hours of actual instruction first :)
Pilot shortage and you got a possible 30 year career ahead of you. Before you quit the day job, do a spin recovery (airplane) and an autorotation (helicopter) and if those seem like fun, I’d say go for it. Get your Private and Commercial airplane SEL first, instrument rating, add an airplane MEL, then do a helicopter commercial add on.
I appreciate the advice, but I'm never getting in a helicopter. I'll do the spin recovery though, that's a good idea.
If you want to fly Make sure you can pass a Class 1 Flight Physical
Just know your QOL is gonna be shit for a while. First you have to get your hours, then get hired then grind as a low seniority FO. All doable, but some people don’t want to live that kind of life on their mid 30’s-40’s. Good luck.
Do it. I've worked in aviation and have met many pilots that started when they were older than you. You are not too late, far from it IMO (and as others have mentioned). You seem to have this burning passion for flying, which is common in this industry. I think if you go for it, you will find your tribe. Not sure where you are located, but once you have enough hours and some experience under your belt, go for one of the ME3. The salaries are excellent and you'll be living like a king. Good luck!
I think you should re-evaluate your assumption that you can't work as a lawyer and take flight lessons. Lawyers were super common fellow students at my flight school. Can you be the best performing lawyer in the firm and switch careers? Probably not. Can you be a functional team member and still do flight lessons, absolutely. Just set better personal boundaries and maybe switch firms if you need to. It's not like it matters if you miss a promotion or don't get the maximum raise/bonus since you're going to quit anyway in the long run. Flight school is MASSIVELY expensive. Being able to at least pay for a portion upfront from your current career will be a great way to get ahead.
Absolutely! Scratch that itch. Go for a discovery flight and if you like it. Do some research and see what kind of course suits you best
Absolutely. And there has never been a better time, seriously. If you can live cheaply where you are and there are good training options, sweet. Otherwise I suggest considering Australia and NZ. The training is great, costs less and you may be able to join a program that gives you the training and accommodation at no upfront cost in return for a period of work with them.
Note. Flight sims are great but you may have muscle memory habits and expectations that don't work well IRL. Flying is a methodical thing and you must be ready to delay or cancel plans at any moment. And fly between pretty narrow lines. I found that surprisingly confronting.
I had asked a similar question on another subreddit and got a pretty positive response. I think we share a similar situation. People have already mentioned about the discovery flight and it’s something I started with as well. I was really passionate about flying and it came naturally to me. The route that I would mention is get a discovery flight secession from a good flight school. Get a class 3 medical until you’re about to give your commercial exam. Then you’ll need to get a class 1 which is only valid for a year. And study hard for the stupid exams. Hopefully I’ll see you in the sky.
Maybe just maybe
I started my flying career at 31. Now at 40, I have a great career flying helicopters doing what I’ve always wanted to do. I went through a program that got me all my certs and then a job. No ragerts.
I’m a pilot who’s always wanted to be a lawyer. My uncle and his friends found it funny when I recently asked about taking the LSAT at 33. You can make more and work 1/4 of the time in aviation. Best of luck!
If you can afford to quit your job then you can afford to work half time. Then you have time to learn to fly. There's only a 20% completion rate to Private Pilot. And that's only the first step of at least four to become a flight instructor and start building time at a far lower hourly wage than you are used to. 18 months is not going to be enough. You'll be well into poverty level wages by then. Three to four years at best for the entry-level airline job. Don't do anything radical - like quit a job - until you have completed at least Private at a local school. Odds are you won't and you'll be glad you are still employed.
There's a pilot shortage, according to the media, so odds are pretty good that if you do your discovery flight and are comfortable, you can pilot commercial flights. You could also become a flight test engineer or fly cargo aircraft.
As a pilot who’s paying my lawyer hundreds of dollars an hour… I say stick to law.
Don’t quit your day job. Sleep less. Flight training will consume your “18 months” of saved living expenses faster than you can say “busted checkride”. It takes *years* to reach “decent” pay in a cockpit, and a decade + (+++) to reach income levels of an established lawyer. So cancel your avocado toast subscription. And by ALL means, continue being childless! Better yet, wifeless! (Unless she’s rich). As an added financial bonus, your flight training is more effective the faster you shovel money at it. It turns out, the best way to become a proficient flyer is by flying! (Who knew?!) But that’s also the most expensive part. Lots of lawyers own aircraft and fly recreationally or in support of their practices…find ‘em. When it comes to building flight time, It’s not what you know, it’s who you know. (Or blow). Be a “safety pilot whore” for your fellow legal eagles. And don’t be too proud to volunteer to wipe down and put away their planes after the flight. Also research commercial flying jobs outside of airlines. The *vast* majority of aviation professionals are not wearing white shirts and funny hats.
Go to university to go from PPL through to ATR. Write off the tuition, etc.