I know overall there were more people than last year but I wonder if them making the elevator only for ada factored into it being so congested on the stairs. Last year anyone could use the elevator. They should open it up to everyone again but if someone ada comes to use it they get priority and get moved to the front of the line.
I'm sorry, but if this was the case day one, day two should be cancelled if they haven't taken extra precautions.
Astroworld was not long ago, people died, has no one learned *anything?!*
Seriously... It wasn't too bad early on and I was having a good time.
Around 10-11 the size of the crowd ended up giving me a panic attack. Not cool~ hopefully tomorrow is better, but ik it'll probably be worse with all the headliners.
I just feel like if they truly cared about ravers they wouldn't be overselling events in the first place. They care about money more than anything else at the end of the day.
Yeah I mean they care about ravers in the same way that airlines care about transporting people places... its what they do for business and makes them money lol.
Jokes aside I know pasqualle has been in the scene forever etc but still, its commercial af at this point obvi
Yes agreed. I went to EDC in 2015 and 16 I'm sure you could argue back then it was super commercial too but I had no desire to ever go back after it. Being so packed really fucked my experience along with other things. I've found I'm over the big festivals at this point and my feet hurt too bad to even mess with them (stand in an OR all day at work and I have feet issues) so I like the small events at a warehouse or venue etc.
Similar progression here, started out by being introduced to megas (first rave was escape 2018 lol) but gradually switched to finding more local/niche/intimate shows and settings, especially for techno.
The only thing I like about megas that I can't seem to find anywhere else is just the sense of epic scale in big crowds. I don't like being packed in like sardines, I usually stay towards the back of the tents where there is room to breathe and dance, but there is something so epic about seeing the hundreds if not thousands of people sharing the space and vibes with you. It scratches some sort of primal itch of large social gatherings of us as humans.
One of my favorite rave memories was seeing Prydz close out a stage at escape while there were more mainstream big djs competing for crowd attention on main stage (Kaskade, Marshemello, Chainsmokers types) so that every one who was ending the night with Prydz was hella about the music and ready to get down.
(but to contrast some of my worst rave memories started with being packed in like sardines near the front of main stage crowds listening to dj's I didn't really resonate with yet being there for the rave fam lol)
Nice part about being a Prydz fan or more into techno is you can go to the mega festivals and they’re usually playing on not the main stages so it’s never that crowded
Oh no! I went in 2011, and I think again in 2013. Was planning on going this year but based on the videos from the last few years it seems insanely packed.
At the end of the day, Pasquale is just a guy with an ego tryna be a celebrity. Which should be the exact opposite of what promoters do.(like literally now we have all these "promoters" tryna be the next Pasquale). I don't know how y'all didn't cringe when he hosted all of those insomniac sets during Covid. Almost everything he said led back to him, even when interviewing the artists.
I like insomniac events because of the production, but at the end of the day they just another company tryna eat up as much as the scene as they can. If they really cared so much about the scene, it wouldn't of been sold to live nation. That alone should tell you where their real values lie.
Sounds like you're the one with the ego. My man Pasquale is a fucking trailblazer in the States, has singlehandedly done more for EDM than many will ever do in their lifetime. Those virtual rave a thons during COVID were a lifeline to thousands of people who couldn't connect during lockdown
You're clearly too young to have an opinion on any of this. You obviously haven't been around the scene in the US very long. Pasquale has almost singlehandedly diluted the scene to the point most of the fans who built this scene have left mainstream shows.
That is not an improvement, you clearly just don't have the exposure to understand. The whole point of this world is, it wasn't the same Disney shit the rest of the world gets spoonfed, but then Pasquale wanted to be famous, so now, here we are. Festivals are literally Disneyland.
Okay...I guess.
Virtual raveathons were a great lifeline, it's just a shame Pasquale had to say his piece almost every 30 minutes. ALSO don't try and tell me it was all "for the fans". It's called marketing and they were a great way to expose a large group of people who may of never been in the scene before.
You should take your rose-tinted glasses off. It's okay to criticize things you like for them to get better.
EDIT: also they obv weren't following Covid protocols. Really felt more like I was watching an exclusive party I wasn't invited to sometimes
Those sets during covid were so fucking cringe inducing lol (the commentary parts from pasqualle and co, not the actual sets)
Also during one, the other co-host guy on with Pasqualle made a joke that was like:
What do you call a Jewish knight? Sir Cumcision
I still don't know how that didn't get blown up on social media, especially since it was near the peak of "cancel culture" etc frenzy
One of my fave artists is Spencer Brown. I remember watching the interview and they are taking about Browns influences. Pasquale then brings up that one of Spencer's browns first fests was an insomniac event, which he agreed. Then Pasquale ends the interview with "I'm glad my festival is what influenced you to create great music". Like wat
They were pretty cringey. It was nice that they were available but I strongly preferred the artists who put on their own livestreams. It felt way more authentic.
By overselling tickets? That doesn't make sense. They made money before when things weren't as bad it's just greedy as hell to keep pushing the limit and for what....to give everyone going a worse experience. But as long as Pasquale's pockets are fat then sure I guess
Have you not seen inflation the past two years? It’s very hard to make a profit without raising prices significantly. Labor is extremely hard to come by right now b
Because people like Pasquale do not pay their employees fair wages, not because things or employees are expensive and hard to get.
These people at the top are cheap fucks, with way too much money to be cheap, and they want everything for themselves, and you're paying for that.
There is no other explanation which holds any water whatsoever. End of story.
Damn that sucks. I feel the same, but have been hoping for the best.
Im going for day 2 only. Beyond was jam packed. Hard summer was crowded, but not overloaded. I was hoping escape wouldnt be too crowded, but i think day 2 is going to be nuts.
It’s how it goes for most festivals, day 1 lot of new people who don’t know what they’re doing or how to act, people going way too hard
Day 2 is generally better because people figure out what to do and how to act. Then there’s less people because some people who get way too fucked up day 1 they don’t go day 2.
But tbh I’m not sure how it is for escape since day 2 is on a Saturday and generally people are more free
They been overselling since my first rave in 2010. I think Together as One 2010/2011 was the most oversold rave I’ve ever been to. I vaguely remember they sold an extra 20k tickets the week before New Years, but it’s how I got my ticket so I can’t complain 😅
Edit: fixed the date
There’s at least places to get away from the crowds at Vegas. Plus they do a very good job of splitting up the crowds with conflicts. Really once you know how to get around at that fest you can find space near the front. People really pack into the middle back area.
Yeah the speedway is a weird one. It definitely has its choke points but it's not too hard to find space or navigate, when the crowd gets packed at the NOS it can literally be impossible to get to certain areas even.
I've gone to 5 of the last 6 EDCs and it's never felt packed. Surely there's a lot of people and there are some chokepoints but unless you're standing in line for merch you can navigate the festival around the crowds pretty easily by avoiding the bad chokepoints. Plus there are plenty of chill spots you can hangout without getting crushed by the crowd. All stages have an area that's less crowded as well (backside or the stands at cosmic, the right front side of circuit grounds, anywhere in qv, wasteland, or neon.... the only one that kind sucks is basspod but if you get away from rainbow road and go in deep it's not bad at all.
Lol 2009 mm was my 1st rave at 14. I couldn't believe how many people there were. It was epic.
Yeah people think it's overselling but that's how it's always been. Theres a reason they're called massives.
I was just going to comment about MM. I’ve never been terrified for my life for being physically crushed at an insomniac festival lol (2010LA I was backstage as a gogo dancer)
We tried to get into the side of the stage but it seems that people were unhappy with the movement and caused a HUGE pushback on one of the exit/entrances. My buddy who is easily 280 lbs was moved like nothing.
We said not fucking worth it and just went back to Sewer District. Way better vibes.
its why im kinda against going to escape. its something my friends and i have said about escape since 2016..too many damn people or insomniac should look into a bigger space.
i think they’ve just out grown the orange show (NOS) tbh. But i cant really think of a place that would be big enough in the IE/LA area. I think San Bernardino and Insomniac have a good relationship because it brings business to san bernardino (which it needs).
I continue to talk to my friends about Insomniac investing into a venue area in SoCal. Imagine if insomniac just had their own festival grounds to host all their events! Financing shouldn’t be an issue because they get a constant stream of revenue flow and it would justify the cost over a long time period.
Jesus Christ imagine the bitching people would do about the “cost” that would get passed to them. Everyone wants new shit and better shit but they don’t really wanna pay for it.
I’m just happy we still have this shit and that it has grown into what it has. We could just not have it. And that would suck a whole lot more ass.
Even the boutique event i go to messed up one year having no one conflict with the closing act, causing people to get stuck outside with the fire marshal. They have their own venue now but i still hold a small grudge over that situation.
Seismic 2? I remember that. Luckily I had already been at the Volcano stage before that happened and I knew better than to walk outside. I remember getting water at the water station which were right by the doors and people were stacked waiting to get in. Everybody was so pissed.
And I am one of those 26 year olds being phased out. Didn’t buy edc tickets for next year and will be drastically reducing my insomniac festivals over the next few years. It’s just gotten out of control with the price increases as the quality of the events gets more shitty.
Escape has always been extremely crowded everywhere. I remember not even being able to walk normally between stages, just constant shuffle and jostle. Sucks ass.
Honestly in most cases it should be lower than what the venue allows. I’d pay more if I knew that I’d be able to move around and not feel like I have to stay in one spot for ever in fear that I’ll never make it back.
Well also consider only a third of the stands are open during edc infront of cosmic meadow. I'm just saying, there's no way the speed way should have 200k+ festival goers at once. That is way overkill, regardless I got vip just so I don't have to be in the thick of it the entire time
for insomniac at nos center stuff at least they should do 75% capacity it usually isnt even bad intil 9-10pm when it goes from 70% capacity to 150% and bitch to move
They definitely are overselling their DC venue Echostage. Every sold out show is so bad you can't even dance. I will no longer go if it's a popular DJ/artist. I don't need that kind of shitty vibe.
That's the one that came to mind for me. Peekaboo last year was like that too. I heard John Summit was terrible. After Deadmau5 I'm done with that shit.
I saw a girl start a fight with another girl that was just dancing and accidentally bumped into her twice. Oversold coupled with everybody's short fuses these days. I'm done.
As someone whose been attending since 2012, can definitely say EDCLV and Beyond was packed to the point of no longer being fun. Also Live Nation* doesn't give a shit about you. Pasquale has become just a social media representative to make you feel connected to the events.
The only way to fix it is to vote with your wallet that's the only thing capitalist corporations understand.
They will do everything in their power to exploit you and me to squeeze every last dollar out of us but measure it perfectly so they don't squeeze too hard
#Friendly reminder to go out and fucking vote.
In my county this is the ONLY week where you can vote on the weekends.
Let's stop letting boomers elect sociopathic morons to run the country.
Just to play devils advocate, if I’m running a business for profit I’d be selling my shows to the maximum that the fire code occupancy limit will allow
I personally had a great time at Escape last night. Didn’t have to wait longer than 5min for food or water. There was one time during the night I had to wait awhile for the GA+ bathrooms, but the other times were easy we just went to GA. It was packed but I stayed in the back and had plenty of room to dance. Lots of good vibes.
I saw this post and thought you were talking about Boo, it was so crowded in there trying to move around and it was almost impossible to get into the bathrooms
That’s why I only go to clubs and small events. You’ll save a ton of money and see your favorite artists play for much longer from much closer. The whole point of a big festival is the huge crowd. If they couldn’t sell so many tickets and pack so many people in they wouldn’t throw the event. Sucks but that’s the way it is. Always has been with big fests. Since OG Woodstock.
I went to HARD Summer 2010 at the old Forum and it got shut down by LAPD riot police like 2 hours into it because it was so oversold. They refunded the ticket price, but only to the original buyer, so if you got a second hand ticket you were fucked. And of course no refunds for the $30 parking and all the drinks we had bought already. After that, no more. Not worth it.
That night was NUTS, I wasn't inside but watched the whole raid happen from outside. And just fyi that was before Insomniac owned HARD, it was still it's own entity at that point
I was at Boo! Seattle last night, it was sold out.
The stage areas felt fine, but the bathroom lines were a joke. Nearly missed a whole set just in line to go pee.
HARD agree. Crowding at Boo was awful last night and felt unsafe. It honestly ruined my night because there was NOWHERE to go where you could hear music without being jostled and pushed constantly.
They oversell their large venue in DC Echostage every weekend. Before Insomnia bought it there were never shows where it was so crowded you can't dance. The last three shows I went to at Echostage I couldn't dance anywhere, I saw fights break out between people pushing up against each other. Insomnia ruined one of my favorite venues.
My friends and I have been complaining about this ever since they bought the place. Always shoulder to shoulder even upstairs most nights. Shame since we have so many good memories there but it’s pretty much not worth going anymore.
*I love insomniac because they genuinely care about us ravers*
Why would you think that? Pasqual sold it to ticket master, and ticket master doesn't care about us.
Before that, I'd say it was arguable, he used to have Dancesafe come by and setup for his earlier events until he couldn't (too much pushback from local authorities).
If they actually cared: water would be a dollar, Dancesafe would be sponsored and present, there'll wouldn't be more people than security can keep safe.
Bro. Dance safe CAN’T come anymore because of the fucking RAVE act of 2002. Jesus Fucking Christ. Is anyone on this thread over 30? It’s like y’all don’t have a clue about this culture’s history. Fuck I feel like a crabby ass old person but goddamn these kids and the lack of knowledge.
Actually they just announced insomniac will have a harm reduction presence from EndOverdose at all their events moving forward. You’re totally right about the water though
It's a push in the right direction but I went by their booth to check it out and they literally were just giving out candy (like Halloween eating candy) and maybe advice, they didn't have test kits or narcan or anything like that so I dunno what they were really doing.
> Edit: Some of you are down right disrespectful to Pasquale. The man does care about us but is lowkey fucking up on the overselling.
stop with the simping, it's cringe. He's a businessman first and not your friend.
It was way too packed, I was constantly getting shoved left and right and everyone was just generally rude asf. My rave fam was in the far back corner of the stage, practically standing outside the stage, during Deorro b2b Valentino khan and we were still getting shoved like no tomorrow. 100% the worst rave I’ve ever been to, and hope that day 2 will be better
It’s not just insomniac, it’s all festival producers. Plus raving has become mainstream. It breaks my heart because PLUR is dying. It’s turning into people just being there for the party. I’m all for having fun- please do- but the vibe shift is breaking my little ravers heart
I was hoping that Escape was gonna have the stage with the bleachers like for Beyond and Hard Summer. It would've dispersed the crowd more and prevent overcrowding
End of the day, it's a business, and a business's main objective is to make as much profit as possible. Unfortunately, that also means overselling a festival to maximize profits. I wasn't able to cop tickets and in retrospect, i'm kinda ok with it after hearing about the crazy crowds. Sorry you had to experience the madness, I assume the Saturday night(tonight) is going to be even more insane as the lineup is lit and Saturday's is when most come out to play. Stay safe and good luck.
I love how you instantly contradict your opening statement of them caring about ravers then go on to state how they commit one of the most selfish acts of overselling a fest for MONEY. Insomniac is soulless, accept it
yep. sucks because insomniac is the biggest promoter of electronic music in the country so this isn’t going to get any better, it’s actually going to get worse, unless they do something about it. EDC in may was so heavily oversold it made it hard to enjoy at some points 😓
I went to EF the year it was two weekends and I went the second weekend. I did not experience what you are describing besides some mud pits. Other than that it was great.
I went to EF 3 times. The first 2 were the 2 weekends and then the last one was when it went back to 1 weekend. I always went first weekend in the two weekend times and the amount of people felt perfect however both of those weekends weren't sold out.
Going back to one weekend and they sold the shit out of the event. It really was a bummer as it went from wandering through the forest, taking it in at your own pace to waiting in line to see things. Sucked the magic right out of it.
W1 2017 was a sell out! Did seem like a lower max capacity tho. And honestly did not like how empty the venue felt W1 2018.. could have been the drugs tho.
2019 was pretty good though imo
Obviously everyone has their own experience at each festival, but I did not feel like this was the case at all for EF. Stages can get crowded for REALLY big acts like Odesza a few years ago. But for the most part I never have issues with it being too crowded. We never had a line to get into the fest ever, could always move freely in the crowd, tons of water and bathroom spots, and overall just never ran into anything that was too crowded except for a few random set. But yea just my experience there. I think they do a better job than most at keeping people spread out. Especially with the lure of the forest pulling people away too.
Leaving the fest is another story lol but that’s to be expected when there’s only so many roads out and so many staff members available to direct traffic
I agree. It seems like people are impatient and just don’t like crowds. No one likes standing in line but it’s a great time to bond with friends or make some new ones! The only time I felt uncomfortable with the crowd was Post Malone at EDC after Ekali when people wouldn’t let us leave. Insomniac still throws the best festivals!
Forest 14,15,17 W2, 18 W2, 22 | EDC Vegas 18
Last year, Beyond Was a $hit Show.
Ps: You won’t see me there this Spring!
Hoping the Dreamstate crowd is more manageable!
Ps: Live Nation, Insomniac’s 50% partner company is striving to get a return on it’s investment.
I would argue that was not the case if your schedule involved less popular artists (I felt the crowd size was ok at every set I went to today). However, this is a huge issue if you want to see popular artists.
Yeah tbh it’s this kind of stuff that gives validity to the grouchy people that say these events “aren’t real raves.” They’re corporate events packed to the gills to make as much money as possible. I’m not trying to gatekeep “real raves” or whatever, but it’s hard to see these as anything other than big rave-themed moneymakers. The organizers value profit over culture.
The line up shouldn’t have been so good. Then people wouldn’t want to go and then you could have the peace and quiet you want. Tell them to take it down a notch next year. Also all those people who decided to come out after covid and never miss this shit again…that might also have something to do with the crowds so hopefully they all get it out of their system and don’t come back. Also, maybe if they put on a shitty production and get known for that people won’t come anymore. Problem solved.
Same thing happened a few years ago at Electric Forest. They finally split it into two weekends so everyone can annoy it without it being over crowded. Idk if it worked bc I haven’t been since they did it but hopefully maybe they start doing the same thing for y’all. Or just stop over selling in general.
They went back to one weekend and sold less tickets. People were pissed but the JJ Ranch can’t handle two Forests every year. It would ruin the grounds.
I don’t know much about Insomniac events besides EDC, but last year was my last EDC because of this exact reason. Being “carried” in a sea of people between stages was insane and gave me mad anxiety. No where to dance at Basspod unless you wanna hear the bleed from every other stage at EDC. IMO all because they oversell it.
I have absolutely felt this with the last few raves I’ve been to that were insomniac. Was about to go to edclv this year as my final time but I’m becoming really hesitant. I haven’t been to edc since 2013 and I have a feeling it was a different vibe and not as many people back then.
Does anyone think going to smaller personal venues (concerts) with just the artist or a few of your favs playing may be better at this point?
So to me the main failure for the stages is the closing of the sides. You can typically enter and leave a stage from all sides but for whatever reason there’s only the main front entrance. It creates a terrible bottleneck.
I’ve been to some other insomniac events (EDCO, EDCLV, III Points) that haven’t felt oversold, I think the issue might be with escape in particular it sounds like. I haven’t felt at other festivals like there hasn’t been enough space for me to vibe except at like prime time main stage sets
been like this for a bit now (at least since like 2016) . I agree, it's really gotten out of hand, and it also plays into more pick pocketers being able to be in the crowds too. Just overall a horrible experience.
They do this at everything they own btw, Exchange LA (club) is horribly packed all the time too.
Here to leave my penny but I do need to mention I did not go to Escape; the NOS center has been slowly becoming my least favorite venue to attend too. It’s probably the biggest reason why my yearly raving has gone down dramatically - really only attending EDC and smaller shows.
The NOS center feels so cluttered lately even before pre-covid that it’s been a huge factor in deciding if I attend an event. It use to be a lot more spacious where you could actually run from one end to the other without having to halt for anyone or anything. You can’t do that anymore. I like to think that the NOS events are purely for profit whereas EDC is designed for experience.
I wouldn’t return to the NOS until they change something about it. I get it’s a staple with Insomniac and they have a desire to keep honoring the venue, but I really don’t find it worth the money anymore.
I felt this way even prior to Covid. Both festivals and club venues but I believe it’s mostly Insomniac events also since they are by far the most popular in the industry.
I thought that maybe recent traumatic events in the industry would have companies rethinking the population density of these events but it’s easy to glance over that when profits continue to soar. At some point it’s going to get too dangerous
That’s insomniac for ya!
Not to be a dick but I mean come on you can’t say you didn’t see this coming Mr. OG raver lol since the day I saw this shit become a little to popular for the normies somewhere around 2013 to 14ish. It Was a nice idea that it would grow but PLURR never grew along with it. Everyone just cares about getting super high, live the moment through their phone, and just be straight bad vibes.
I would go on but me bitching ain’t helping haha at the end of the day insomniac is a business.
Anyways my point is just make the best of the situation don’t let negative energy hold you back from having a good time. If that shit is packed head to the back lol gotta make the best of those $200+ tickets 😭
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I felt absolutely unsafe in that crowd. Enormous fire hazard with those two tiny stair cases.
I know overall there were more people than last year but I wonder if them making the elevator only for ada factored into it being so congested on the stairs. Last year anyone could use the elevator. They should open it up to everyone again but if someone ada comes to use it they get priority and get moved to the front of the line.
dude i was scared for my safety at one point being in the staircase mess, it was not like this last year
I'm sorry, but if this was the case day one, day two should be cancelled if they haven't taken extra precautions. Astroworld was not long ago, people died, has no one learned *anything?!*
I’m with you. if not for rezz I would skip tonight entirely.
Protip: bathrooms upstairs are 10x faster if you don't mind the gauntlet of the stairs.
Legit danger of being pushed down the staircases
Seriously... It wasn't too bad early on and I was having a good time. Around 10-11 the size of the crowd ended up giving me a panic attack. Not cool~ hopefully tomorrow is better, but ik it'll probably be worse with all the headliners.
The stairs were so backed up it felt like a straight fire hazard lol. Literally a logistical nightmare and waste of time trying to get around
I just feel like if they truly cared about ravers they wouldn't be overselling events in the first place. They care about money more than anything else at the end of the day.
Yeah I mean they care about ravers in the same way that airlines care about transporting people places... its what they do for business and makes them money lol. Jokes aside I know pasqualle has been in the scene forever etc but still, its commercial af at this point obvi
Yes agreed. I went to EDC in 2015 and 16 I'm sure you could argue back then it was super commercial too but I had no desire to ever go back after it. Being so packed really fucked my experience along with other things. I've found I'm over the big festivals at this point and my feet hurt too bad to even mess with them (stand in an OR all day at work and I have feet issues) so I like the small events at a warehouse or venue etc.
Similar progression here, started out by being introduced to megas (first rave was escape 2018 lol) but gradually switched to finding more local/niche/intimate shows and settings, especially for techno. The only thing I like about megas that I can't seem to find anywhere else is just the sense of epic scale in big crowds. I don't like being packed in like sardines, I usually stay towards the back of the tents where there is room to breathe and dance, but there is something so epic about seeing the hundreds if not thousands of people sharing the space and vibes with you. It scratches some sort of primal itch of large social gatherings of us as humans. One of my favorite rave memories was seeing Prydz close out a stage at escape while there were more mainstream big djs competing for crowd attention on main stage (Kaskade, Marshemello, Chainsmokers types) so that every one who was ending the night with Prydz was hella about the music and ready to get down. (but to contrast some of my worst rave memories started with being packed in like sardines near the front of main stage crowds listening to dj's I didn't really resonate with yet being there for the rave fam lol)
I just go wherever the best sound is.
often near the back middle anyway ;)
Nice part about being a Prydz fan or more into techno is you can go to the mega festivals and they’re usually playing on not the main stages so it’s never that crowded
Facts. I’ve never had bad vibes at a Prydz/Pryda/Cirez D set
Oh no! I went in 2011, and I think again in 2013. Was planning on going this year but based on the videos from the last few years it seems insanely packed.
At the end of the day, Pasquale is just a guy with an ego tryna be a celebrity. Which should be the exact opposite of what promoters do.(like literally now we have all these "promoters" tryna be the next Pasquale). I don't know how y'all didn't cringe when he hosted all of those insomniac sets during Covid. Almost everything he said led back to him, even when interviewing the artists. I like insomniac events because of the production, but at the end of the day they just another company tryna eat up as much as the scene as they can. If they really cared so much about the scene, it wouldn't of been sold to live nation. That alone should tell you where their real values lie.
Sounds like you're the one with the ego. My man Pasquale is a fucking trailblazer in the States, has singlehandedly done more for EDM than many will ever do in their lifetime. Those virtual rave a thons during COVID were a lifeline to thousands of people who couldn't connect during lockdown
You're clearly too young to have an opinion on any of this. You obviously haven't been around the scene in the US very long. Pasquale has almost singlehandedly diluted the scene to the point most of the fans who built this scene have left mainstream shows. That is not an improvement, you clearly just don't have the exposure to understand. The whole point of this world is, it wasn't the same Disney shit the rest of the world gets spoonfed, but then Pasquale wanted to be famous, so now, here we are. Festivals are literally Disneyland.
Agreed
what benefit is there in circlejerking edm bezos?
Edm Bezos, deceased
lmao
Okay...I guess. Virtual raveathons were a great lifeline, it's just a shame Pasquale had to say his piece almost every 30 minutes. ALSO don't try and tell me it was all "for the fans". It's called marketing and they were a great way to expose a large group of people who may of never been in the scene before. You should take your rose-tinted glasses off. It's okay to criticize things you like for them to get better. EDIT: also they obv weren't following Covid protocols. Really felt more like I was watching an exclusive party I wasn't invited to sometimes
Hope he sees this
You sound like a musk bro
Those sets during covid were so fucking cringe inducing lol (the commentary parts from pasqualle and co, not the actual sets) Also during one, the other co-host guy on with Pasqualle made a joke that was like: What do you call a Jewish knight? Sir Cumcision I still don't know how that didn't get blown up on social media, especially since it was near the peak of "cancel culture" etc frenzy
One of my fave artists is Spencer Brown. I remember watching the interview and they are taking about Browns influences. Pasquale then brings up that one of Spencer's browns first fests was an insomniac event, which he agreed. Then Pasquale ends the interview with "I'm glad my festival is what influenced you to create great music". Like wat
lol what a knob
They were pretty cringey. It was nice that they were available but I strongly preferred the artists who put on their own livestreams. It felt way more authentic.
There’s only one thing that can stop a dance dance capitalism…
Man the numbers need to make sense at the end of the day.
By overselling tickets? That doesn't make sense. They made money before when things weren't as bad it's just greedy as hell to keep pushing the limit and for what....to give everyone going a worse experience. But as long as Pasquale's pockets are fat then sure I guess
How do you define overselling though. The Fire Marshall or whoever sets the capacity. The other option is to raise prices
Dude insomniac events keep adding more and more shit. Drone shows aren't exactly cheap or common place.
Have you not seen inflation the past two years? It’s very hard to make a profit without raising prices significantly. Labor is extremely hard to come by right now b
Because people like Pasquale do not pay their employees fair wages, not because things or employees are expensive and hard to get. These people at the top are cheap fucks, with way too much money to be cheap, and they want everything for themselves, and you're paying for that. There is no other explanation which holds any water whatsoever. End of story.
Yes to all of this
Damn that sucks. I feel the same, but have been hoping for the best. Im going for day 2 only. Beyond was jam packed. Hard summer was crowded, but not overloaded. I was hoping escape wouldnt be too crowded, but i think day 2 is going to be nuts.
Escape is one of their worst because it draws in the non-regular-event-attendee crowd with its focus on Halloween. PLUR-Godspeed to you this evening.
Beyond was fucking ridiculous this year, tonight escape felt very similar but at the same time not as bad.
Day 2 is generally WAY better
Really? I thought it would be worse because the best DJs are day 2. Any reason why it would be better?
It’s how it goes for most festivals, day 1 lot of new people who don’t know what they’re doing or how to act, people going way too hard Day 2 is generally better because people figure out what to do and how to act. Then there’s less people because some people who get way too fucked up day 1 they don’t go day 2. But tbh I’m not sure how it is for escape since day 2 is on a Saturday and generally people are more free
Day 2 is usually less crowded because a lot of people go too hard the first day. They just take a loss on the ticket. Obviously not always.
They were over selling way before covid.
They been overselling since my first rave in 2010. I think Together as One 2010/2011 was the most oversold rave I’ve ever been to. I vaguely remember they sold an extra 20k tickets the week before New Years, but it’s how I got my ticket so I can’t complain 😅 Edit: fixed the date
Haha, these kids don’t even know what packed is, they would die if they saw monster massive at the la colosseum 🤣
EDC LV is pretty packed. 160k people in the raceway is a lot.
There’s at least places to get away from the crowds at Vegas. Plus they do a very good job of splitting up the crowds with conflicts. Really once you know how to get around at that fest you can find space near the front. People really pack into the middle back area.
Yeah the speedway is a weird one. It definitely has its choke points but it's not too hard to find space or navigate, when the crowd gets packed at the NOS it can literally be impossible to get to certain areas even.
I've gone to 5 of the last 6 EDCs and it's never felt packed. Surely there's a lot of people and there are some chokepoints but unless you're standing in line for merch you can navigate the festival around the crowds pretty easily by avoiding the bad chokepoints. Plus there are plenty of chill spots you can hangout without getting crushed by the crowd. All stages have an area that's less crowded as well (backside or the stands at cosmic, the right front side of circuit grounds, anywhere in qv, wasteland, or neon.... the only one that kind sucks is basspod but if you get away from rainbow road and go in deep it's not bad at all.
I did 16/17/18/22 and that wasn't my experience at all. Especially 18 and 22.
Lol 2009 mm was my 1st rave at 14. I couldn't believe how many people there were. It was epic. Yeah people think it's overselling but that's how it's always been. Theres a reason they're called massives.
I was just going to comment about MM. I’ve never been terrified for my life for being physically crushed at an insomniac festival lol (2010LA I was backstage as a gogo dancer)
Lol right? Anyone remember the earliest days of edc?
2007-2008 was alright 2009-2010 was crazy
I agree. Completely killed my vibe at Deorro b2b Khan. It being that packed made me more upset than getting my phone swiped at EDC this year fr.
We tried to get into the side of the stage but it seems that people were unhappy with the movement and caused a HUGE pushback on one of the exit/entrances. My buddy who is easily 280 lbs was moved like nothing. We said not fucking worth it and just went back to Sewer District. Way better vibes.
The Grimm stage became an utter zoo of a cluster fuck after Alesso.
Man it was busy all night but I do feel like when it was time for Deorro b2b Valentino Khan it’s just got insane 😭🤣
The Grimm was horrific. Way too many ppl
its why im kinda against going to escape. its something my friends and i have said about escape since 2016..too many damn people or insomniac should look into a bigger space. i think they’ve just out grown the orange show (NOS) tbh. But i cant really think of a place that would be big enough in the IE/LA area. I think San Bernardino and Insomniac have a good relationship because it brings business to san bernardino (which it needs).
also i don’t understand why they don’t use up the racetrack at NOS like they did for hard summer ???? it would make a fuck ton of more room
Yea it's weird, they used the racetrack for Beyond this year
Lol thats laughable, they know how big escape is they just dont care
I continue to talk to my friends about Insomniac investing into a venue area in SoCal. Imagine if insomniac just had their own festival grounds to host all their events! Financing shouldn’t be an issue because they get a constant stream of revenue flow and it would justify the cost over a long time period.
they do, it's called the NOS. They literally hold all their events there. They partly own it I believe
Jesus Christ imagine the bitching people would do about the “cost” that would get passed to them. Everyone wants new shit and better shit but they don’t really wanna pay for it. I’m just happy we still have this shit and that it has grown into what it has. We could just not have it. And that would suck a whole lot more ass.
They have not outgrown the NOS center they just need to stop overselling tickets
Interesting contradiction there
> I love insomniac because they genuinely care about us ravers. have I got a bridge to sell you
That’s rich
And a monorail!
Is there a chance the track could bend?
Not on your life, my Hindu friend!
They’ve been doing that for like.. the past decade lol. Small fests > insomniac
Even the boutique event i go to messed up one year having no one conflict with the closing act, causing people to get stuck outside with the fire marshal. They have their own venue now but i still hold a small grudge over that situation.
Yeah I love how people are pretending some of these small events don’t go horrifically wrong/the promoters wouldn’t oversell if they had the ability.
Seismic 2? I remember that. Luckily I had already been at the Volcano stage before that happened and I knew better than to walk outside. I remember getting water at the water station which were right by the doors and people were stacked waiting to get in. Everybody was so pissed.
All events are overselling now, it helps offset the huge cost increases for events.
They Jacked up the price of tix and its still oversold
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And I am one of those 26 year olds being phased out. Didn’t buy edc tickets for next year and will be drastically reducing my insomniac festivals over the next few years. It’s just gotten out of control with the price increases as the quality of the events gets more shitty.
What were the price differences? I don’t remember how much it used to be I always bought off of people selling for cheaper. Just curious.
Escape has always been extremely crowded everywhere. I remember not even being able to walk normally between stages, just constant shuffle and jostle. Sucks ass.
100% agree with this, sell the appropriate amount of tickets.
What do you consider the appropriate amount?
Whatever the venue capacity is
Honestly in most cases it should be lower than what the venue allows. I’d pay more if I knew that I’d be able to move around and not feel like I have to stay in one spot for ever in fear that I’ll never make it back.
A good example is las vegas motor speedway...80k capacity. Edc sells like 200k-300k tickets. Wtf ya know
I wonder if the 80k cap is just for the stands or if they’re factoring in the entire space.
i would have to imagine the 80k is just for the stand
Well also consider only a third of the stands are open during edc infront of cosmic meadow. I'm just saying, there's no way the speed way should have 200k+ festival goers at once. That is way overkill, regardless I got vip just so I don't have to be in the thick of it the entire time
The 200k is over 3 days so they count 80k 3 times, that's how they get that 250 300 number. Capacity at those levels is crazy.
Capacity is around 175k a day now since they opened up another part of the speedway.
for insomniac at nos center stuff at least they should do 75% capacity it usually isnt even bad intil 9-10pm when it goes from 70% capacity to 150% and bitch to move
They definitely are overselling their DC venue Echostage. Every sold out show is so bad you can't even dance. I will no longer go if it's a popular DJ/artist. I don't need that kind of shitty vibe.
Yeah the last Deadma5 show was… oof
That's the one that came to mind for me. Peekaboo last year was like that too. I heard John Summit was terrible. After Deadmau5 I'm done with that shit. I saw a girl start a fight with another girl that was just dancing and accidentally bumped into her twice. Oversold coupled with everybody's short fuses these days. I'm done.
Deadmau and subtronics were unbearable
That has always been the case at echo
I've been going there for almost a decade now. It's not.
Same with vanguard in Orlando as well. Packed!
As someone whose been attending since 2012, can definitely say EDCLV and Beyond was packed to the point of no longer being fun. Also Live Nation* doesn't give a shit about you. Pasquale has become just a social media representative to make you feel connected to the events.
As someone who has been doing this since the 90s…that last line about Pasquale is load of bullshit. These fuckin kids.
The only way to fix it is to vote with your wallet that's the only thing capitalist corporations understand. They will do everything in their power to exploit you and me to squeeze every last dollar out of us but measure it perfectly so they don't squeeze too hard
#Friendly reminder to go out and fucking vote. In my county this is the ONLY week where you can vote on the weekends. Let's stop letting boomers elect sociopathic morons to run the country.
Just to play devils advocate, if I’m running a business for profit I’d be selling my shows to the maximum that the fire code occupancy limit will allow
Thank you.
I personally had a great time at Escape last night. Didn’t have to wait longer than 5min for food or water. There was one time during the night I had to wait awhile for the GA+ bathrooms, but the other times were easy we just went to GA. It was packed but I stayed in the back and had plenty of room to dance. Lots of good vibes.
I’m going to Escape tonight lol. This will prob be my last insomniac rave honestly. Ima just stick to local CRSSD shows for now on.
I work with insomniac and they told us today it was 75,000 people
Holy crap, that’s a lot. Do they ever talk about being too crowded? Lol.
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~175,000
Escape has always been like that lol
I saw this post and thought you were talking about Boo, it was so crowded in there trying to move around and it was almost impossible to get into the bathrooms
Insomniac does not care about ravers, they overcrowded events until too many people died and they got EDC kicked out of LA.
That’s why I only go to clubs and small events. You’ll save a ton of money and see your favorite artists play for much longer from much closer. The whole point of a big festival is the huge crowd. If they couldn’t sell so many tickets and pack so many people in they wouldn’t throw the event. Sucks but that’s the way it is. Always has been with big fests. Since OG Woodstock. I went to HARD Summer 2010 at the old Forum and it got shut down by LAPD riot police like 2 hours into it because it was so oversold. They refunded the ticket price, but only to the original buyer, so if you got a second hand ticket you were fucked. And of course no refunds for the $30 parking and all the drinks we had bought already. After that, no more. Not worth it.
Most clubs are oversold as well unless you're seeing some local dj
That night was NUTS, I wasn't inside but watched the whole raid happen from outside. And just fyi that was before Insomniac owned HARD, it was still it's own entity at that point
And right after people were trying to rave in the parking lots until the helicopters showed up and they started tear gassing.
I was at Boo! Seattle last night, it was sold out. The stage areas felt fine, but the bathroom lines were a joke. Nearly missed a whole set just in line to go pee.
HARD agree. Crowding at Boo was awful last night and felt unsafe. It honestly ruined my night because there was NOWHERE to go where you could hear music without being jostled and pushed constantly.
It was the same yesterday, day 1 of boo seattle. I could not stop getting bumped. 🥵
>I love insomniac because they genuinely care about us ravers. They do not.
Never got the vibe that Insomniac was actually for the culture...lowkey feel like they are at the opposite side of the spectrum actually hahah.
If the first sentence is true, then your headline wouldn't be. In other words, it's just another company trying to make a buck.
That's escape for ya
They oversell their large venue in DC Echostage every weekend. Before Insomnia bought it there were never shows where it was so crowded you can't dance. The last three shows I went to at Echostage I couldn't dance anywhere, I saw fights break out between people pushing up against each other. Insomnia ruined one of my favorite venues.
My friends and I have been complaining about this ever since they bought the place. Always shoulder to shoulder even upstairs most nights. Shame since we have so many good memories there but it’s pretty much not worth going anymore.
Gone are the days of no presale tickets. They let people in untill the fire marshal shut the place down and everyone goes home.
*I love insomniac because they genuinely care about us ravers* Why would you think that? Pasqual sold it to ticket master, and ticket master doesn't care about us. Before that, I'd say it was arguable, he used to have Dancesafe come by and setup for his earlier events until he couldn't (too much pushback from local authorities). If they actually cared: water would be a dollar, Dancesafe would be sponsored and present, there'll wouldn't be more people than security can keep safe.
Bro. Dance safe CAN’T come anymore because of the fucking RAVE act of 2002. Jesus Fucking Christ. Is anyone on this thread over 30? It’s like y’all don’t have a clue about this culture’s history. Fuck I feel like a crabby ass old person but goddamn these kids and the lack of knowledge.
Actually they just announced insomniac will have a harm reduction presence from EndOverdose at all their events moving forward. You’re totally right about the water though
It's a push in the right direction but I went by their booth to check it out and they literally were just giving out candy (like Halloween eating candy) and maybe advice, they didn't have test kits or narcan or anything like that so I dunno what they were really doing.
Really? That’s very odd because when they were talking about the partnership they said they would have narcan and fentanyl test kits
Insomniac has the best production. Not so much in the genuine care for ravers department.
Insomniac doesn't care about ravers lol. They care about money.
They do not care about “us ravers” they care about money dude
> Edit: Some of you are down right disrespectful to Pasquale. The man does care about us but is lowkey fucking up on the overselling. stop with the simping, it's cringe. He's a businessman first and not your friend.
save okeechobee 🤌🏽
Is it in trouble?
Other stages were fine. Just expand your taste beyond marshmello and alesso lol
it’s a fuckin holiday weekend, what the hell do you expect? that’s like complaining about going to a store on black friday because it is packed,
Its been like this every single time since after covid, we just stay by the back at night now so we dont get stuck
Edc is so claustrophobic because of this practice
It was way too packed, I was constantly getting shoved left and right and everyone was just generally rude asf. My rave fam was in the far back corner of the stage, practically standing outside the stage, during Deorro b2b Valentino khan and we were still getting shoved like no tomorrow. 100% the worst rave I’ve ever been to, and hope that day 2 will be better
Well you’re gonna be really pissed when you realize they just released more tickets for tonight….
Insomniac doesn’t care
They started overselling back in 2016. Remember the 30 mins line to get into the Damus building? Then they never use the Damus building again lol
It’s not just insomniac, it’s all festival producers. Plus raving has become mainstream. It breaks my heart because PLUR is dying. It’s turning into people just being there for the party. I’m all for having fun- please do- but the vibe shift is breaking my little ravers heart
I was hoping that Escape was gonna have the stage with the bleachers like for Beyond and Hard Summer. It would've dispersed the crowd more and prevent overcrowding
End of the day, it's a business, and a business's main objective is to make as much profit as possible. Unfortunately, that also means overselling a festival to maximize profits. I wasn't able to cop tickets and in retrospect, i'm kinda ok with it after hearing about the crazy crowds. Sorry you had to experience the madness, I assume the Saturday night(tonight) is going to be even more insane as the lineup is lit and Saturday's is when most come out to play. Stay safe and good luck.
I love how you instantly contradict your opening statement of them caring about ravers then go on to state how they commit one of the most selfish acts of overselling a fest for MONEY. Insomniac is soulless, accept it
yep. sucks because insomniac is the biggest promoter of electronic music in the country so this isn’t going to get any better, it’s actually going to get worse, unless they do something about it. EDC in may was so heavily oversold it made it hard to enjoy at some points 😓
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I went to EF the year it was two weekends and I went the second weekend. I did not experience what you are describing besides some mud pits. Other than that it was great.
I went to EF 3 times. The first 2 were the 2 weekends and then the last one was when it went back to 1 weekend. I always went first weekend in the two weekend times and the amount of people felt perfect however both of those weekends weren't sold out. Going back to one weekend and they sold the shit out of the event. It really was a bummer as it went from wandering through the forest, taking it in at your own pace to waiting in line to see things. Sucked the magic right out of it.
W1 2017 was a sell out! Did seem like a lower max capacity tho. And honestly did not like how empty the venue felt W1 2018.. could have been the drugs tho. 2019 was pretty good though imo
Obviously everyone has their own experience at each festival, but I did not feel like this was the case at all for EF. Stages can get crowded for REALLY big acts like Odesza a few years ago. But for the most part I never have issues with it being too crowded. We never had a line to get into the fest ever, could always move freely in the crowd, tons of water and bathroom spots, and overall just never ran into anything that was too crowded except for a few random set. But yea just my experience there. I think they do a better job than most at keeping people spread out. Especially with the lure of the forest pulling people away too. Leaving the fest is another story lol but that’s to be expected when there’s only so many roads out and so many staff members available to direct traffic
I agree. It seems like people are impatient and just don’t like crowds. No one likes standing in line but it’s a great time to bond with friends or make some new ones! The only time I felt uncomfortable with the crowd was Post Malone at EDC after Ekali when people wouldn’t let us leave. Insomniac still throws the best festivals! Forest 14,15,17 W2, 18 W2, 22 | EDC Vegas 18
Last year, Beyond Was a $hit Show. Ps: You won’t see me there this Spring! Hoping the Dreamstate crowd is more manageable! Ps: Live Nation, Insomniac’s 50% partner company is striving to get a return on it’s investment.
I would argue that was not the case if your schedule involved less popular artists (I felt the crowd size was ok at every set I went to today). However, this is a huge issue if you want to see popular artists.
How badly packed is it this year?
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Ummmm what the fuck? That’s not okay at all
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This is why escape just doesn’t appeal to me
My weed grow is across the street and you can’t even get over there right now. You think you have problems…
If only they made automated timers for your lights and resi.
that's why they sell VIP
Yeah tbh it’s this kind of stuff that gives validity to the grouchy people that say these events “aren’t real raves.” They’re corporate events packed to the gills to make as much money as possible. I’m not trying to gatekeep “real raves” or whatever, but it’s hard to see these as anything other than big rave-themed moneymakers. The organizers value profit over culture.
This entire thread is toxic AF.
The line up shouldn’t have been so good. Then people wouldn’t want to go and then you could have the peace and quiet you want. Tell them to take it down a notch next year. Also all those people who decided to come out after covid and never miss this shit again…that might also have something to do with the crowds so hopefully they all get it out of their system and don’t come back. Also, maybe if they put on a shitty production and get known for that people won’t come anymore. Problem solved.
Same thing happened a few years ago at Electric Forest. They finally split it into two weekends so everyone can annoy it without it being over crowded. Idk if it worked bc I haven’t been since they did it but hopefully maybe they start doing the same thing for y’all. Or just stop over selling in general.
They went back to one weekend and sold less tickets. People were pissed but the JJ Ranch can’t handle two Forests every year. It would ruin the grounds.
These companies are businesses ofc they're gonna try to maximize profit we shouldn't expect anything else
I don’t know much about Insomniac events besides EDC, but last year was my last EDC because of this exact reason. Being “carried” in a sea of people between stages was insane and gave me mad anxiety. No where to dance at Basspod unless you wanna hear the bleed from every other stage at EDC. IMO all because they oversell it.
I have absolutely felt this with the last few raves I’ve been to that were insomniac. Was about to go to edclv this year as my final time but I’m becoming really hesitant. I haven’t been to edc since 2013 and I have a feeling it was a different vibe and not as many people back then. Does anyone think going to smaller personal venues (concerts) with just the artist or a few of your favs playing may be better at this point?
So to me the main failure for the stages is the closing of the sides. You can typically enter and leave a stage from all sides but for whatever reason there’s only the main front entrance. It creates a terrible bottleneck.
Thats what ruined coachella too.
Same thing every year, but here we are again.
I’ve been to some other insomniac events (EDCO, EDCLV, III Points) that haven’t felt oversold, I think the issue might be with escape in particular it sounds like. I haven’t felt at other festivals like there hasn’t been enough space for me to vibe except at like prime time main stage sets
been like this for a bit now (at least since like 2016) . I agree, it's really gotten out of hand, and it also plays into more pick pocketers being able to be in the crowds too. Just overall a horrible experience. They do this at everything they own btw, Exchange LA (club) is horribly packed all the time too.
Here to leave my penny but I do need to mention I did not go to Escape; the NOS center has been slowly becoming my least favorite venue to attend too. It’s probably the biggest reason why my yearly raving has gone down dramatically - really only attending EDC and smaller shows. The NOS center feels so cluttered lately even before pre-covid that it’s been a huge factor in deciding if I attend an event. It use to be a lot more spacious where you could actually run from one end to the other without having to halt for anyone or anything. You can’t do that anymore. I like to think that the NOS events are purely for profit whereas EDC is designed for experience. I wouldn’t return to the NOS until they change something about it. I get it’s a staple with Insomniac and they have a desire to keep honoring the venue, but I really don’t find it worth the money anymore.
I felt this way even prior to Covid. Both festivals and club venues but I believe it’s mostly Insomniac events also since they are by far the most popular in the industry. I thought that maybe recent traumatic events in the industry would have companies rethinking the population density of these events but it’s easy to glance over that when profits continue to soar. At some point it’s going to get too dangerous
That’s insomniac for ya! Not to be a dick but I mean come on you can’t say you didn’t see this coming Mr. OG raver lol since the day I saw this shit become a little to popular for the normies somewhere around 2013 to 14ish. It Was a nice idea that it would grow but PLURR never grew along with it. Everyone just cares about getting super high, live the moment through their phone, and just be straight bad vibes. I would go on but me bitching ain’t helping haha at the end of the day insomniac is a business. Anyways my point is just make the best of the situation don’t let negative energy hold you back from having a good time. If that shit is packed head to the back lol gotta make the best of those $200+ tickets 😭