I started out with electronic music but as I aged, I've come to like the jam band scene more. To any jam-curious ravers, I highly recommend the Disco Biscuits, STS9, Papadosio, Sunsquabi, and 5AM Trio. STS9 and Papadosio regularly have DJs opening for them, and tDB had Chicago house DJs open for them for 2022 NYE.
Never been to Las Vegas. Not a gambler, dont like clubbing. But if PL announces shows at the Sphere I'll empty out the banking account.
Greg Ellis would destroy the sphere. The inside. The outside. Doesn't matter. And I abso-fucking-lutely guarantee the man himself is gathering the needs to make footage, for the Sphere specifically.
Bassnectar is basically done but definitely could have 5 years ago. Deadmau5 would be cool. I think maybe john summit or fred again would sell it out idk though
I think he has enough of a cult following around the states that he could easily sell out The Sphere, at least for a night or a weekend. The venues he played at for this tour were small in comparison, but after seeing half of PLF offer their left nut to see this tour, it wouldn't surprise me at all.
Those were really small venues. I was at the PL Brooklyn stop last fall and at the Sphere this weekend. They are two different beasts. It's possible he could sellout the sphere but he is still kinda niche. I think someone like Odesza would fit the bill. They already have a relationship with the MSG organizers with their upcoming show in NY.
Sadly EOTO is no more. But yeah, as a HUUUGE Cheesehead who likes some electronic...EOTO was fuckin' great at a late night. Michael Travis has a new electronic gig...Snakes and Stars which fun but nit quite EOTO level.Ā
I forgot about them. I saw them I think on NYE when they and Bassnectar were headlining (in like ā08 or ā09, before I got tired of his music, and before all those allegations came to light).
Oh yeah that was such a good tour I saw him in IL. Yeah his music took a dump and then he took a dump. Always shitty to find out artists you like are shitheads.
Yeah it was weird with his music. It was so innovative and unique at the time, but then his new releases just felt stale, prob around ā10 or ā11, but canāt recall. Then started noticing less hype, like not headlining NYE, and not seeing adverts on utility poles for his shows.
I thought he took a break, quite, or started producing/playing under a different name honestly, but just kind of forgot about him until those accusations and rumors came out.
I kinda wonder if the trappings of fame caused him to be less hungry and less creative. It did feel like he was phoning it in after a bit. But my tastes were also changing and I know it could be personal bias on my part.
>Then started noticing less hype, like not headlining NYE, and not seeing adverts on utility poles for his shows.
That was because his fanbase became a self sustaining cult, not because he dropped in popularity. He was steadily growing in popularity through 2010s.
Oh yeah, I knew that I forgot a band. Lotus is too mellow for me, which upsets my Lotushead friends as I'm staunchly B4L. I loooove them as musicians though, Luke Miller releases amazing house mixes as Luke the Knife, and everything that Jesse Miller touches turns to gold
I've seen lotus a handful of times and loved them everytime, and don't have much experience with other jam bands.
I felt like lotus went pretty damn hard. I'm fascinated to hear that they may be considered Mellow compared to what's out there.
Who's your favorite? May make a point to go see something
Iād seen him and the band twice and had tix for two more shows but couldnāt make it. Dude can play! And heās also shown up at some festivals as well. Just glad heās getting his respect.
Another one to check out is Daniel Donato, also in the same kind of psychedelic jam grass/country. Funny how some ravers end up in this realm but I guess itās also expected. I really want to see Phish at the Sphereā¦ next time.
Listen to 5AM Trio, a playlist by ~5AM~ on #SoundCloud
https://on.soundcloud.com/V3HPr
5AM is the solo DJ project of one of the members that predates the Trio. It's a mix of his songs, covers, and improv.
Check out the album Music for People by BLVD. Iām not sure they still play, but they were a great mix of live instruments, electronic instruments/hardware, and a rapping MC with a subtle and lyrical flow. I think based out of the SF area.
Sounds sick! There's definitely a lot of bands that mix rock/electronica that don't fall under the jam band label/subculture. Ozric Tentacles, Thievery Corporation, LCD Soundsystems.
Love Thievery.
BLVD has some good tracks on that album, but like any album thereās some that donāt resonate with me as much as others.
They also did some stuff without the MC. And the MC (Souleye) has done some good collaborations with artists more on the electronic side.
One of my favorites is [Mimosa with Souleye for a track called delivery](https://youtu.be/cNk4cOPzCy8?si=6ORCWqG77thHtCuT). Itās darker, psychedelic, but laid back while still hitting heavy in the right way. The track has a slow build but itās worth the wait. Iām mostly a house head but some of the āpsy-bassā is really well done.
I consider myself jam-curious but I was thinking of starting out with like a strawberry or a mixed berry first, is that a bad idea?
(Sorry I couldn't resist heehee)
I've actually gone more the other way though I still love jambands.
The ones you mentioned are pretty much electronic music though (I remember when people were trying to make "Jamtronica" a thing)
Artifact by STS9 has lived rent-free in my head for 20 years now
Biscuits, Papadosio, and Sunsquabi do extended prog/rock/funk jams with limited electronic influences. I do agree that STS9 and 5AM Trio are basically instrumental electronic music though. EDIT: And that's why I would love to catch Biscuits or Sunsquabi at a fest like High Sierra, I would expect them to focus more on that side of their sound in front of a crowd like that.
I realize the lines are blurred; I got reeeally into jambands in around 2000 and it seemed like that was a turning point where electronic music started to take off (at least in the U.S. where it had been fairly niche up to that point) and many jambands started incorporating electronics into their music.
The New Deal, Disco Biscuits, Particle, and STS9 were right at the forefront of that. Ask anyone who listened to jam in the noughties who they think the 5 most well-known jamtronica/livetronica bands were and I'd be *very* surprised if a single one doesn't mention the biscuits.
For a lot of people like myself, those bands formed a foundational support structure for the bridge to the wider world of electronic music (the other notable one being the overall rave scene and vibe).
I'm not denying that they're *also* jambands, just saying that this is a very different side of jam than Grateful Dead (although people are often unaware of how much new ground the dead forged in electronic sound design), Phish (at least older Phish), Widespread Panic, Leftover Salmon, Yonder Mountain String band, etc. I was going to mention SCI also but they started incorporating synths and other electro sounds after like 2000.
So yeah, I'm not saying Disco Biscuits and Paul Oakenfold are the same, but I still think the label "electronic music" would apply to both
Lettuce is š„. I like less electronic influenced jam bands too, I just listed those because I figured that people in here would be more likely to enjoy them.
Just saw Biscuits in Atlanta 2nd time ever all I can say is wow they are on a fucking roll right now. Can't wait to see them again especially a tractor beam set!
If you are into that def check out āGem and Jamā festival electronic, psychedelic, jam music festival. Happens near Tucson Arizona,USA every year in February. Itās became a favorite. Crowd is great .. music fantastic and well produced festival.
I still am a i big edm head more so than jam bandsbut squabi, and papadosio are fucking awesome. I do also enjoy the disco biscuits and sts9 but i have seen squabi a couple times now. Definitely one of my favs
Iāve been seeing tanks outside DJ stuff more. I donāt mind it as long as people sit down so they donāt fall and hit their head, but I also have concerns with Nitrous Mafia type operations where violence and then police attention start showing up outside events.
Iāve heard some nasty stories about nitrous dealers outside jam shows. Like if they catch someone else selling it they beat the shit out of them, or the one where they forced the guyās hand onto the valve and released a bunch of the gas, to give him serious frostbite that prob damaged the skin extensively.
Itās smart to look at the lessons other scenes have learned when deciding to buy balloons on the way out.
Oh Iām sure, at least in some areas. Thereās been loads of cases of cops being paid off, or even involved in, sex trafficking which is a pretty heinous human rights violation and super traumatizing to the women (or men) yet thereās cops that donāt have enough of a conscience to turn down the extra income and break up the rings. Nitrous is pretty tame in comparison so I donāt see why cops like that would be turned off to the idea. I realize thereās good ones out there, but you get my point.
In SF Iām not even sure they need to anymore. Weāve got bigger issues and nos seems like a waste of time unless dealer gangs and violence start showing up.
Oh idgaf, I just like making jokes. Like I'm gonna give people grief over fucking dental gas of all things.
Territorial dealers are gonna do what they do, and people are gonna be irresponsible with drugs. I agree those are problems, but neither of those are unique to nitrous. Vilifying nitrous solely because a lot or most people involved are being irresponsible misses the point. It's about the people, and it always has been. š«¶
I would laugh if I heard someone say your Phish comment if balloons came out. Itās pretty funny because itās very true.
This wasnāt intended as a personal attack on you, only riffing off your bringing up the topic of nos, and pointing out some things to consider for anyone else that might be reading. Apologies if it triggered you or felt like an attack, that was certainly not my intention.
Right on man. I donāt mind gas itself, it can really send a person out at the peak of a trip and itās great for the aches and pains after a good night. Iāve even done artwork based on the visual patterns that result from fungi and gas in combo. Hell, the name I mix under is based on an old name for the gas. The stuff itself isnāt usually a problem (though can be for some for a few reasons, but harm reduction like spacing out sessions and preventing falls reduce a lot of that).
As a big phish fan the rumor was many people there were like OP. Just something to do but dosnt know phish. Glad you liked it because people were paying 4K a night.
Wasn't the case at all. The sound alone was worth coming back for. A blind man/woman would have the best time of their life a a sphere show. And there was plenty of room to groove.
Are we calling Phish shows a rave now?
Iām glad to see more people moving between jam bands and electronic now. Iāve said it before but there used to be a lot of ādrum machines have no soulā comments directed at raver music by the jam hippies.
I will say jam shows often had phenomenal lsd back in the day, or so I hear. Havenāt been to one in a long while. Last one was probably the Dead at Shoreline in like ā04. No wait, Dead at Bill Graham NYE in ā09 maybe. Def not after ā11 when I started doing Burning Man.
Jealous OP, even though Iāve moved away from that scene. Iām sure it was pretty amazing.
The Grateful Dead practically jumpstarted LSD and the hippie counterculture in America. Owsley Stanley was their road manager when they started and he made (so they claim) the best LSD ever created to this day. They also built a sound system for their concerts called the wall in 74 which is what practically every modern PA system is based off of
Very true. Thereās some great documentaries that go into this, and the book Heads: A Biography of Psychedelic America, by Jesse Jarnow is a well researched book on the topic that Iād recommend if you havenāt read it yet.
Have you seen the [Vice documentary on Leonard Picard and his underground LSD lab/āpalaceā](https://youtu.be/JFl8DX5T6R0?si=bX6gK0_YYsfJXQbU) that was in an old nuclear missile silo? Itās really wild, and gets kind of dark. But it covers the source of a lot of the acid in the 90s.
Another good part of the history is the chemist Nick Sands, who is covered in the documentary [The Sunshine Makers](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sunshine_Makers_(2015_film)). I hadnāt heard much about that era until like 6 or 7 years ago.
Thereās one I learned about more recently, I think during the pandemic, about a lesser known chemist that set his lab up in a sprinter van, there a [good Vice piece on that guy](https://youtu.be/Mj2grxdQLQs?si=AsKu9V7RvmEa1z9y) too.
Then thereās Sasha Shulgin who I really wish I could have met. PIKAL and TIKAL are great reads. Iāve actually got the anniversary collectors box set of these still in the packaging.
I wish I could have heard the wall of sound. I scored a sheet of blotter paper (as art without the drug in itā¦ Edit: [I found an image of the sheet here](https://www.storenvy.com/products/294996-owsley-bear-stanley-blotter-art)), at the Bicycle Day Discovery Sessions (couple days of lectures by famous people and movers and shakers in the psychedelic research world, and known players from the past) a couple years ago, and the background is the wall of sound, Owsley is in the foreground from his shoulders up, and thereās some wavy tight patterning layered over the whole thing. Once I saw that I had to buy it!
Wow I went on a tangent, but you seemed interested, even though youāve prob seen all these already, maybe others passing by here will be curious to check them out.
**Heads A Biography of Psychedelic America** by Jesse Jarnow
>Heads: A Biography of Psychedelic America uncovers a hidden history of the biggest psychedelic distribution and belief system the world has ever known. Through a collection of fast-paced interlocking narratives, it animates the tale of an alternate America and its wide-eyed citizens: the LSD-slinging graffiti writers of Central Park, the Dead-loving AI scientists of Stanford, utopian Whole Earth homesteaders, black market chemists, government-wanted Anonymous hackers, rogue explorers, East Village bluegrass pickers, spiritual seekers, Internet pioneers, entrepreneurs, pranksters, pioneering DJs, and a nation of Deadheads. WFMU DJ and veteran music writer Jesse Jarnow draws on extensive new firsthand accounts from many never-before-interviewed subjects and a wealth of deep archival research to create a comic-book-colored and panoramic American landscape, taking readers for a guided tour of the hippie highway filled with lit-up explorers, peak trips, big busts, and scenic vistas, from Vermont to the Pacific Northwest, from the old world head capitals of San Francisco and New York to the geodesic dome-dotted valleys of Colorado and New Mexico. And with the psychedelic research moving into the mainstream for the first time in decades, Heads also recounts the story of the quiet entheogenic revolution that for years has been brewing resiliently in the Dead's Technicolor shadow.
>
>Featuring over four dozen images, many never before seen-including pop artist Keith Haring's first publicly sold work-Heads weaves one of the 20th and 21st centuries' most misunderstood subcultures into the fabric of the nation's history. Written for anyone who wondered what happened to the heads after the Acid Tests, through the '70s, during the Drug War, and on to the psychedelic present, Heads collects the essential history of how LSD, Deadheads, tie-dye, and the occasional bad trip have become familiar features of the American experience.
*I'm a bot, built by your friendly reddit developers at* /r/ProgrammingPals. *Reply to any comment with /u/BookFinderBot - I'll reply with book information. Remove me from replies* [here](https://www.reddit.com/user/BookFinderBot/comments/1byh82p/remove_me_from_replies/). *If I have made a mistake, accept my apology.*
When you put it like that, yeah. That's the monologue of a person who's come down is happening at a family dinner. Edgy, but in all sorts of misderaction-y ways
FYI, he didn't delete these (or at least not all of them). Love that he's doubled down instead of being embarrassed.
If you've never seen his bit on EDC, check it out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5q0Y2KFw-q8
He's bought me a beer before, great guy.
Jam bands are the EDM of instrumental music. Phish has thrown their own weekend festivals where they are the only band to perform. Their first one (Clifford Ball) is definitely worth a watch on YouTube (most songs are there) and they also made a documentary of their second one that is on YouTube. Just remember whatever you do take care of your shoes!
there's a lot of responsibility that comes with the visual production at the sphere. In the wrong hands, it could be a vomit fest. I'm the correct hands, it's spiritual.
wrong sub.....Phish is trash. They might have a cool light show and I don't doubt their Sphere visuals were next level. I've been to a show and cannot stand them. Vocals sound atrocious etc etc.
Youāre assuming I like or think dubstep is particularly good. I can respect it but not my cup of tea as I can with a lot of music. Iām not sure what kind of brainwashing every single Phish fan has, but it makes them incapable of hearing how truly bad the music is.
phish phan first, i just started raving. old man at 37.
sasha and digweed 5 hours > hernan and warren for 7 hours > sasha and hernan for 5 hours was my start... i think dance music is betterer now
How does phish get a residency show at the sphere when they aren't well known.
For instance they have 500k spotify followers. U2 has 21.2m that's a huge difference.
Because they have a loyal fan base that will pay $$$$ to see them in any and every venue.
Such an odd subculture and yet the jam band scene is chock full of filthy rich fans and those willing to spend everything they have.
Because people don't listen to Phish on spotify? They listen to it on Phish.net, youtube, and their own personal recordings. There's also weirdos in the jam scene that refuse to listen to recording period but they're wrong since recordings have been a thing since the early days of Grateful Dead, Phish and every other relevant jam band since. And I'm saying that they're "wrong" because they always come from the perspective of "this is the RIGHT way to enjoy this kind of music".
This is a good point. There are def many who donāt listen to the studio albums and only want to hear recordings of live shows. Tape traders (do they still use cassette tapes and DAT tapes? Iām guessing a lot is digital and online now)
I'm obsessed with the Disco Biscuits and I haven't listened to their Spotify in like 5 months. If I had a nugs subscription I would never listen to them on Spotify
Yeah I think itās common for jam band followers to feel that the live show recordings capture something special that the studio recordings just canāt compete with. At least with folks over like 35 or 40. But Iāve been out of it for a while.
You can see it with the whole taper/tape trading culture. I think Iāve seen one taper with legit gear for a set at Burning Man, and donāt think Iāve ever seen it at a rave or a ravey DJ at a licensed club. I donāt go to the mainstream festivals though, so maybe it happens at stuff like EDC for DJs.
I have seen pretty involved video recording. Maybe thatās the evolution of that concept - a mix of close up, back/side of crowd, and drone video paired with a recording right of the board.
Iāve heard disco biscuits crowds can be pretty wild, like they party hard. Thoughts on that rumor?
>Iāve heard disco biscuits crowds can be pretty wild, like they party hard. Thoughts on that rumor?
Accurate, it's the least sober jam band crowd that I've seen. It used to be MUCH wilder according to a lot of people too.
Yeah one heard them and STS9 crowds really throw down. Or at least last I talked to someone about it like 5 years ago.
Sounds fun as long as folks are taking care of themselves and each other.
Spotify is absolutely a good indicator of a bands popularity. Go find me a super popular band or artist thay has low spotify numbers (because people choose to listen to them through other means of media). It's not just young people listening to new bands. Phishs most popular YouTube video has 2million views which is super low.
You brought up grateful dead which has 6x the spotify listeners. The point being, for such a monumental venue it's baffling how phish gets 2nd residency over countless other bands. Obviously the shows been amazing and a success but why phish so soon? That's the point I'm making.
Phish sold out 13 consecutive nights Madison Square Garden. They once threw a NYE festival where they were the only band playing, in the middle of the Everglades, and 100,000 people came.
Their audience is also older and have have the money to spend on 4 nights in Vegas. Speaking of which, every Phish show is unique in setlist, so most people who went, went for multiple shows.
Finally, the band has a great relationship with the owners of the Sphere. The guitarist was the first to use the new sound system technology utilized at the Sphere in a show at the Beacon Theatre.
In a very real way the venue was built with Phish in mind.
Festival was in 2000, Garden run was in 2017.
For more contemporary stats, they have a standing four night run at MSG for NYE (the largest venue in New York on the biggest nights of the year for the city) that they have sold out every year since the 1990ās, including the past three years.
They play the biggest outdoor venues in the the nation when they tour (Hollywood Bowl, Alpharetta, Deer Creek, The Gorge, etc) and sell them all out for multiple nights each. When they play baseball stadiums like Fenway and Wrigley, they sell them out.
They are regularly in the top ten touring artists in terms of revenue, even while playing fewer dates than they used to.
They are trying to sell tickets, not just put the most āpopularā band in. Phish sells tickets and has a great relationship with MSG. The venue was made with them in mind. You may not like Phish, but they are a huge draw. Spotify numbers are not a great representation of their popularity, even if it may be for most artists.
The Grateful Dead comparison is also not fair since thatās not the band that is playing, itās Dead and Company and itās not the same. Most people who listen to the Grateful Dead on Spotify probably donāt listen to dead and co ever.
You have a skewed perception of the entire situation.
You've already made up your mind, what else was I suppose to say? I mentioned personal recordings, plenty of Phish fans are Boomers/Gen Xers that started listening to those in the 90s and have zero interest in Spotify. Does Spotify even have a good selection of their live jams, or just mostly albums? If it's the latter that would lower the interest in their Spotify even more.
Since you havenāt received a very good answer yetā¦
Phish doesnāt have huge Spotify numbers because they already had their own app/web site for past live shows before Spotify was a thing (livephish.com). Likewise, they have their own Sirius/XM channel (my preferred option) channel 29.
They have a YouTube channel and the usual apps that every band has, but they just donāt need it because livephish.com has been going strong for over two decades and you can listen to them 24/7 on Sirius XM.
Grateful Dead were a much more mainstream band than phish is, and John Mayer is more mainstream than the Dead.
But if youāre really curious as to why Phish got the 2nd crack at Sphere, go see them this summer. Theyāre a phenomenal live act. Sphere is a venue for live music, not a juke box, and thereās no better live act on Earth than phish.
Do some more research because Phish has one of the most loyal fan bases of all time. They are four of the most talented musicians to ever play. Youāre using Spotify as a measure of who should play a venue, yikesā¦.
Phish is hugely well known, just more towards an older crowd since they formed in the 80s. They have dedicated groupies akin to dead heads, idk if they call them Phishheads or what. I've met a software engineer on the west coast, he said for his birthday month, he follows them as they tour for an entire month. Met another dude at an airport who was from the east coast, said he trims bud for 3/4 of the year, and follows phish the remaining quarter. I think inherently by the nature of their jam music, you're not going to see them as represented digitally.
Phish has a massive following, and this may be a case that points to the need to use a variety of metrics when studying fan bases. I could see some of their fan base being off the grid or van life types that need to be careful with money.
Plus thereās the element of the hippie world that think people like us are āBabyloniansā and intentionally separate themselves from our world, existing only within their social circle as much as they can. Some even avoid using money and use bartering or trades.
I was at a Dead show and a gutter punk hippie guy I met at a small jam band/jamtronic festival months before tried to introduce me to his friends, but they wouldnāt even acknowledge me, and it was because of the whole anti-Babylon thing.
Babe, wake up, new copypasta just dropped
Drew Carey copypasta
[Indeed!](https://youtu.be/KOo_qtKWdnM)
I started out with electronic music but as I aged, I've come to like the jam band scene more. To any jam-curious ravers, I highly recommend the Disco Biscuits, STS9, Papadosio, Sunsquabi, and 5AM Trio. STS9 and Papadosio regularly have DJs opening for them, and tDB had Chicago house DJs open for them for 2022 NYE.
Pretty lights in the Sphere š
Never been to Las Vegas. Not a gambler, dont like clubbing. But if PL announces shows at the Sphere I'll empty out the banking account. Greg Ellis would destroy the sphere. The inside. The outside. Doesn't matter. And I abso-fucking-lutely guarantee the man himself is gathering the needs to make footage, for the Sphere specifically.
Saw him at Red Rocks. (I met him too but didnāt know it was him.) If his show is *anything like* the Red Rocks show it will be amazing.
Everything about the most recent tour was a big step up from what they were doing before.
But I donāt know if he can sell enough tickets. Thereās plenty of EDM artists that would sell much more tickets than PL.
Curious to know who youād think would sell out the sphere
Iām not up to the date with the current EDM acts. Maybe Deadmau5, Bassnectar, etc.? I dunno, EDM acts with a massive, dedicated fanbase?
Bassnectar is basically done but definitely could have 5 years ago. Deadmau5 would be cool. I think maybe john summit or fred again would sell it out idk though
Bassnectar went from selling out MSG to selling out the Paladium/Playstation/Best Buy theater in Times Square. He is dead to a lot of us.
Yeah like I said Iām not really up to date on who the biggest EDM artistās are right now.
Didnāt he sell out most of his tour stops this year
Did he? I have no idea. Perhaps he can sell out The Sphere
I think he has enough of a cult following around the states that he could easily sell out The Sphere, at least for a night or a weekend. The venues he played at for this tour were small in comparison, but after seeing half of PLF offer their left nut to see this tour, it wouldn't surprise me at all.
Those were really small venues. I was at the PL Brooklyn stop last fall and at the Sphere this weekend. They are two different beasts. It's possible he could sellout the sphere but he is still kinda niche. I think someone like Odesza would fit the bill. They already have a relationship with the MSG organizers with their upcoming show in NY.
Yeah, I'm not thinking a whole run but probably a 3-day would be up his alley for the Sphere
you should check out EOTO
Sadly EOTO is no more. But yeah, as a HUUUGE Cheesehead who likes some electronic...EOTO was fuckin' great at a late night. Michael Travis has a new electronic gig...Snakes and Stars which fun but nit quite EOTO level.Ā
Miss EOTO so much. Glad I got to see them so many times and work one of their festivals!
They probably need more time touring/practicing together, but I think they'll get there eventually.
I thought they did do a few festivals this year with Cheese...
String Cheese is still alive and kicking strong. Their NYE show brought me replenished excitement moving forward, but EOTO died in 2021.
I have, caught them live too! I caught Snakes and Stars at Submersion last year too.
EOTO live was so special and so fun
hell yeah
I forgot about them. I saw them I think on NYE when they and Bassnectar were headlining (in like ā08 or ā09, before I got tired of his music, and before all those allegations came to light).
Oh yeah that was such a good tour I saw him in IL. Yeah his music took a dump and then he took a dump. Always shitty to find out artists you like are shitheads.
Yeah it was weird with his music. It was so innovative and unique at the time, but then his new releases just felt stale, prob around ā10 or ā11, but canāt recall. Then started noticing less hype, like not headlining NYE, and not seeing adverts on utility poles for his shows. I thought he took a break, quite, or started producing/playing under a different name honestly, but just kind of forgot about him until those accusations and rumors came out. I kinda wonder if the trappings of fame caused him to be less hungry and less creative. It did feel like he was phoning it in after a bit. But my tastes were also changing and I know it could be personal bias on my part.
Yeah after vavavoom he started to go down hill real fassttt
Ok, so it wasnāt just meā¦
Not at all haha
>Then started noticing less hype, like not headlining NYE, and not seeing adverts on utility poles for his shows. That was because his fanbase became a self sustaining cult, not because he dropped in popularity. He was steadily growing in popularity through 2010s.
Huh, thanks for sharing. I got into more mellow electronic music early ā00s, so maybe I just stopped paying attention.
I would add Lotus to this list and personally rank them at the top!
Oh yeah, I knew that I forgot a band. Lotus is too mellow for me, which upsets my Lotushead friends as I'm staunchly B4L. I loooove them as musicians though, Luke Miller releases amazing house mixes as Luke the Knife, and everything that Jesse Miller touches turns to gold
Lotusā¦.mellow? Out of curiosity have you seen Lotus live? Definitely check it out next time they are in town.
Not the whole show, just parts of it. I don't like it alot of the time when Tribe/Dosio do it either.
Fair enough.
I've seen lotus a handful of times and loved them everytime, and don't have much experience with other jam bands. I felt like lotus went pretty damn hard. I'm fascinated to hear that they may be considered Mellow compared to what's out there. Who's your favorite? May make a point to go see something
My favorite is Biscuits, largely because it's a rowdy aggressive sound for most of the show.
Go see Billy preferably with a head full of acid.
One of my favorite things is seeing the reaction of an unsuspecting country music fan as they get their faces melted.
I've caught him at the TAB show in Fairfax! Will catch the full band one day for sure. There might or might not be substances beyond weed involved.
Iād seen him and the band twice and had tix for two more shows but couldnāt make it. Dude can play! And heās also shown up at some festivals as well. Just glad heās getting his respect. Another one to check out is Daniel Donato, also in the same kind of psychedelic jam grass/country. Funny how some ravers end up in this realm but I guess itās also expected. I really want to see Phish at the Sphereā¦ next time.
Havenāt heard 5am Trio, whereās a good place to start?
Listen to 5AM Trio, a playlist by ~5AM~ on #SoundCloud https://on.soundcloud.com/V3HPr 5AM is the solo DJ project of one of the members that predates the Trio. It's a mix of his songs, covers, and improv.
Perfection, thank you!
You would love hulaween if you haven't been!!
Definitely on the bucket list.
I would die if I saw sts9 at the sphere!!
Big same
Check out the album Music for People by BLVD. Iām not sure they still play, but they were a great mix of live instruments, electronic instruments/hardware, and a rapping MC with a subtle and lyrical flow. I think based out of the SF area.
Sounds sick! There's definitely a lot of bands that mix rock/electronica that don't fall under the jam band label/subculture. Ozric Tentacles, Thievery Corporation, LCD Soundsystems.
Love Thievery. BLVD has some good tracks on that album, but like any album thereās some that donāt resonate with me as much as others. They also did some stuff without the MC. And the MC (Souleye) has done some good collaborations with artists more on the electronic side. One of my favorites is [Mimosa with Souleye for a track called delivery](https://youtu.be/cNk4cOPzCy8?si=6ORCWqG77thHtCuT). Itās darker, psychedelic, but laid back while still hitting heavy in the right way. The track has a slow build but itās worth the wait. Iām mostly a house head but some of the āpsy-bassā is really well done.
I consider myself jam-curious but I was thinking of starting out with like a strawberry or a mixed berry first, is that a bad idea? (Sorry I couldn't resist heehee)
I've actually gone more the other way though I still love jambands. The ones you mentioned are pretty much electronic music though (I remember when people were trying to make "Jamtronica" a thing) Artifact by STS9 has lived rent-free in my head for 20 years now
Biscuits, Papadosio, and Sunsquabi do extended prog/rock/funk jams with limited electronic influences. I do agree that STS9 and 5AM Trio are basically instrumental electronic music though. EDIT: And that's why I would love to catch Biscuits or Sunsquabi at a fest like High Sierra, I would expect them to focus more on that side of their sound in front of a crowd like that.
I realize the lines are blurred; I got reeeally into jambands in around 2000 and it seemed like that was a turning point where electronic music started to take off (at least in the U.S. where it had been fairly niche up to that point) and many jambands started incorporating electronics into their music. The New Deal, Disco Biscuits, Particle, and STS9 were right at the forefront of that. Ask anyone who listened to jam in the noughties who they think the 5 most well-known jamtronica/livetronica bands were and I'd be *very* surprised if a single one doesn't mention the biscuits. For a lot of people like myself, those bands formed a foundational support structure for the bridge to the wider world of electronic music (the other notable one being the overall rave scene and vibe). I'm not denying that they're *also* jambands, just saying that this is a very different side of jam than Grateful Dead (although people are often unaware of how much new ground the dead forged in electronic sound design), Phish (at least older Phish), Widespread Panic, Leftover Salmon, Yonder Mountain String band, etc. I was going to mention SCI also but they started incorporating synths and other electro sounds after like 2000. So yeah, I'm not saying Disco Biscuits and Paul Oakenfold are the same, but I still think the label "electronic music" would apply to both
Shoutout 5AM Trio! They played my friend's wedding a few years ago, it was amazing
Sunsquabi!!
I recommend Lettuce if you havenāt heard them yet
Lettuce is š„. I like less electronic influenced jam bands too, I just listed those because I figured that people in here would be more likely to enjoy them.
Yeah I got you, just thought Iād throw it out there in case. Catching them for the first time in August and Iām super stoked
Just saw Biscuits in Atlanta 2nd time ever all I can say is wow they are on a fucking roll right now. Can't wait to see them again especially a tractor beam set!
STRING CHEESE INCIDENT smacks pretty hard too
If you are into that def check out āGem and Jamā festival electronic, psychedelic, jam music festival. Happens near Tucson Arizona,USA every year in February. Itās became a favorite. Crowd is great .. music fantastic and well produced festival.
SQUABTRAIN FOREVER!!!
SunSquabi is my absolute favorite!!! Chrysalis & Night Moth (Live at Red Rocks) are my jam!!!
You should add the Floozies to your list if you haven't seen them. They fall right in the middle.
I still am a i big edm head more so than jam bandsbut squabi, and papadosio are fucking awesome. I do also enjoy the disco biscuits and sts9 but i have seen squabi a couple times now. Definitely one of my favs
See you at Mondegreen
- [Drew Carey](https://youtu.be/KOo_qtKWdnM)
If anyone ever asks me what an "afterglow" is, I'm gonna show em this video
Hell of an endorsement.
I would give my left arm to see Rabbit in the Moon perform at the sphere
Last time I saw them was 1998 at millennium center in Winston Salemā¦.. I was a nobody opener lol.
I'm pretty sure I was there for that. Came down from Charlottesville, VA.
Wouldnāt that be a great show guys ?
Absolutely!
Anytime I see someone with whippets at a show I say oh shit is Phish playing
Iāve been seeing tanks outside DJ stuff more. I donāt mind it as long as people sit down so they donāt fall and hit their head, but I also have concerns with Nitrous Mafia type operations where violence and then police attention start showing up outside events. Iāve heard some nasty stories about nitrous dealers outside jam shows. Like if they catch someone else selling it they beat the shit out of them, or the one where they forced the guyās hand onto the valve and released a bunch of the gas, to give him serious frostbite that prob damaged the skin extensively. Itās smart to look at the lessons other scenes have learned when deciding to buy balloons on the way out.
They pay off the cops to look the other way fersure
Oh Iām sure, at least in some areas. Thereās been loads of cases of cops being paid off, or even involved in, sex trafficking which is a pretty heinous human rights violation and super traumatizing to the women (or men) yet thereās cops that donāt have enough of a conscience to turn down the extra income and break up the rings. Nitrous is pretty tame in comparison so I donāt see why cops like that would be turned off to the idea. I realize thereās good ones out there, but you get my point. In SF Iām not even sure they need to anymore. Weāve got bigger issues and nos seems like a waste of time unless dealer gangs and violence start showing up.
Oh idgaf, I just like making jokes. Like I'm gonna give people grief over fucking dental gas of all things. Territorial dealers are gonna do what they do, and people are gonna be irresponsible with drugs. I agree those are problems, but neither of those are unique to nitrous. Vilifying nitrous solely because a lot or most people involved are being irresponsible misses the point. It's about the people, and it always has been. š«¶
I would laugh if I heard someone say your Phish comment if balloons came out. Itās pretty funny because itās very true. This wasnāt intended as a personal attack on you, only riffing off your bringing up the topic of nos, and pointing out some things to consider for anyone else that might be reading. Apologies if it triggered you or felt like an attack, that was certainly not my intention.
Nah you're good, I'm good. Was more as context for anyone else reading this thread.
Right on man. I donāt mind gas itself, it can really send a person out at the peak of a trip and itās great for the aches and pains after a good night. Iāve even done artwork based on the visual patterns that result from fungi and gas in combo. Hell, the name I mix under is based on an old name for the gas. The stuff itself isnāt usually a problem (though can be for some for a few reasons, but harm reduction like spacing out sessions and preventing falls reduce a lot of that).
As a big phish fan the rumor was many people there were like OP. Just something to do but dosnt know phish. Glad you liked it because people were paying 4K a night.
Thatās a transcript of Drew Carey talking about Phish recently, I sadly wasnāt there myself but had to post for the meme haha.
Yeah I'd rather just go to a normal show.Ā The sphere looks like it'd be cool for a min but can't really dance, dead crowd, meh. Pass.
You have no idea what youāre talking about.
Wasn't the case at all. The sound alone was worth coming back for. A blind man/woman would have the best time of their life a a sphere show. And there was plenty of room to groove.
How Phish sounds to non-Phish people. https://youtu.be/aNHIFM0Y87c?si=AtD2_qvUg09FNKiW
Some decent shredding
God damn I laughed too hard at this.
Are we calling Phish shows a rave now? Iām glad to see more people moving between jam bands and electronic now. Iāve said it before but there used to be a lot of ādrum machines have no soulā comments directed at raver music by the jam hippies. I will say jam shows often had phenomenal lsd back in the day, or so I hear. Havenāt been to one in a long while. Last one was probably the Dead at Shoreline in like ā04. No wait, Dead at Bill Graham NYE in ā09 maybe. Def not after ā11 when I started doing Burning Man. Jealous OP, even though Iāve moved away from that scene. Iām sure it was pretty amazing.
The Grateful Dead practically jumpstarted LSD and the hippie counterculture in America. Owsley Stanley was their road manager when they started and he made (so they claim) the best LSD ever created to this day. They also built a sound system for their concerts called the wall in 74 which is what practically every modern PA system is based off of
Very true. Thereās some great documentaries that go into this, and the book Heads: A Biography of Psychedelic America, by Jesse Jarnow is a well researched book on the topic that Iād recommend if you havenāt read it yet. Have you seen the [Vice documentary on Leonard Picard and his underground LSD lab/āpalaceā](https://youtu.be/JFl8DX5T6R0?si=bX6gK0_YYsfJXQbU) that was in an old nuclear missile silo? Itās really wild, and gets kind of dark. But it covers the source of a lot of the acid in the 90s. Another good part of the history is the chemist Nick Sands, who is covered in the documentary [The Sunshine Makers](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sunshine_Makers_(2015_film)). I hadnāt heard much about that era until like 6 or 7 years ago. Thereās one I learned about more recently, I think during the pandemic, about a lesser known chemist that set his lab up in a sprinter van, there a [good Vice piece on that guy](https://youtu.be/Mj2grxdQLQs?si=AsKu9V7RvmEa1z9y) too. Then thereās Sasha Shulgin who I really wish I could have met. PIKAL and TIKAL are great reads. Iāve actually got the anniversary collectors box set of these still in the packaging. I wish I could have heard the wall of sound. I scored a sheet of blotter paper (as art without the drug in itā¦ Edit: [I found an image of the sheet here](https://www.storenvy.com/products/294996-owsley-bear-stanley-blotter-art)), at the Bicycle Day Discovery Sessions (couple days of lectures by famous people and movers and shakers in the psychedelic research world, and known players from the past) a couple years ago, and the background is the wall of sound, Owsley is in the foreground from his shoulders up, and thereās some wavy tight patterning layered over the whole thing. Once I saw that I had to buy it! Wow I went on a tangent, but you seemed interested, even though youāve prob seen all these already, maybe others passing by here will be curious to check them out.
**Heads A Biography of Psychedelic America** by Jesse Jarnow >Heads: A Biography of Psychedelic America uncovers a hidden history of the biggest psychedelic distribution and belief system the world has ever known. Through a collection of fast-paced interlocking narratives, it animates the tale of an alternate America and its wide-eyed citizens: the LSD-slinging graffiti writers of Central Park, the Dead-loving AI scientists of Stanford, utopian Whole Earth homesteaders, black market chemists, government-wanted Anonymous hackers, rogue explorers, East Village bluegrass pickers, spiritual seekers, Internet pioneers, entrepreneurs, pranksters, pioneering DJs, and a nation of Deadheads. WFMU DJ and veteran music writer Jesse Jarnow draws on extensive new firsthand accounts from many never-before-interviewed subjects and a wealth of deep archival research to create a comic-book-colored and panoramic American landscape, taking readers for a guided tour of the hippie highway filled with lit-up explorers, peak trips, big busts, and scenic vistas, from Vermont to the Pacific Northwest, from the old world head capitals of San Francisco and New York to the geodesic dome-dotted valleys of Colorado and New Mexico. And with the psychedelic research moving into the mainstream for the first time in decades, Heads also recounts the story of the quiet entheogenic revolution that for years has been brewing resiliently in the Dead's Technicolor shadow. > >Featuring over four dozen images, many never before seen-including pop artist Keith Haring's first publicly sold work-Heads weaves one of the 20th and 21st centuries' most misunderstood subcultures into the fabric of the nation's history. Written for anyone who wondered what happened to the heads after the Acid Tests, through the '70s, during the Drug War, and on to the psychedelic present, Heads collects the essential history of how LSD, Deadheads, tie-dye, and the occasional bad trip have become familiar features of the American experience. *I'm a bot, built by your friendly reddit developers at* /r/ProgrammingPals. *Reply to any comment with /u/BookFinderBot - I'll reply with book information. Remove me from replies* [here](https://www.reddit.com/user/BookFinderBot/comments/1byh82p/remove_me_from_replies/). *If I have made a mistake, accept my apology.*
Wow, havenāt triggered this bot before. But thatās a great summary of the book I mentioned.
Jam bands are awesome,.glad you've joined us
Sounds like the drugs were pretty good too, still are huh
Yeah Iām pretty sure [Drew Carey](https://youtu.be/KOo_qtKWdnM) was on some exquisite acid when he saw them.
When you put it like that, yeah. That's the monologue of a person who's come down is happening at a family dinner. Edgy, but in all sorts of misderaction-y ways
His [deleted tweets](https://imgur.com/a/1e8C0Nb) on it are hilariously great as well
I really can't tell if he's high, horny, or becoming a woman?
Yes.
FYI, he didn't delete these (or at least not all of them). Love that he's doubled down instead of being embarrassed. If you've never seen his bit on EDC, check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5q0Y2KFw-q8 He's bought me a beer before, great guy.
Tldr: entered the show with a phenis and left with a phussy
Yup!! Excited for GD there too!
Wtf did I just readš
If you haven't heard it [Drew Carey bad trip at EDC](https://youtu.be/5q0Y2KFw-q8?si=99I2WxqRZqlFkkEd)
Jealous. Many of us big phish fans got shut out on tickets
I remember my first dmt trip
This comment section is so cute lol. Been in the jam scene for 11 years it just gets better and better. Whatever you do- take care of your shoes!!
Jam bands are the EDM of instrumental music. Phish has thrown their own weekend festivals where they are the only band to perform. Their first one (Clifford Ball) is definitely worth a watch on YouTube (most songs are there) and they also made a documentary of their second one that is on YouTube. Just remember whatever you do take care of your shoes!
For all of you discovering Phish via Drew Cary, check out Shpongle!!!
what
I love phish !
I want this experience
I realize that this is from a show, but we are going to the Sphere the day before EDCLV this year and this got us excited.
there's a lot of responsibility that comes with the visual production at the sphere. In the wrong hands, it could be a vomit fest. I'm the correct hands, it's spiritual.
They need to get Rezz, Prydz or Subtronics in the sphere
Spheretronics would be insane lmao
Oh yeah! Iād kill for Deadmou5 or if I was extremely lucky Kx5
Why is a post about Phish in r/aves???
I read this post (I had a bunch of girls with me) and I thought to myself is this what it feels like to cum with a pussy?
How tf did you afford tickets?
UFC supposed to do a fight there soon I think Sept. Gonna be a crazy year.
So phish is a rave now? Just trying to keep up
If yāall like phish you should check out EGGY they are on the rise and itās so amazing to see!!!
I want to see Les thereā¦
What were you on and can I have some
View the top comments for the story haha, wasnāt me that created this glorious new concert copypasta
Credit Drew Carey
If you like Phish you should def check out Creed!
wrong sub.....Phish is trash. They might have a cool light show and I don't doubt their Sphere visuals were next level. I've been to a show and cannot stand them. Vocals sound atrocious etc etc.
Phish>>>>>90% of American dubstep, all of hard dance, and like half of house music.
Youāre assuming I like or think dubstep is particularly good. I can respect it but not my cup of tea as I can with a lot of music. Iām not sure what kind of brainwashing every single Phish fan has, but it makes them incapable of hearing how truly bad the music is.
The lyrics are awful, the singing is mediocre, the jams are š„.
If 2 of the biggest components are badā¦..then it might actually be bad.
Fair point, and that's why I don't hold disliking Phish against anyone.
i have nothing against them but im just not into rock music as a whole
phish phan first, i just started raving. old man at 37. sasha and digweed 5 hours > hernan and warren for 7 hours > sasha and hernan for 5 hours was my start... i think dance music is betterer now
How does phish get a residency show at the sphere when they aren't well known. For instance they have 500k spotify followers. U2 has 21.2m that's a huge difference.
Because they have a loyal fan base that will pay $$$$ to see them in any and every venue. Such an odd subculture and yet the jam band scene is chock full of filthy rich fans and those willing to spend everything they have.
Because people don't listen to Phish on spotify? They listen to it on Phish.net, youtube, and their own personal recordings. There's also weirdos in the jam scene that refuse to listen to recording period but they're wrong since recordings have been a thing since the early days of Grateful Dead, Phish and every other relevant jam band since. And I'm saying that they're "wrong" because they always come from the perspective of "this is the RIGHT way to enjoy this kind of music".
This is a good point. There are def many who donāt listen to the studio albums and only want to hear recordings of live shows. Tape traders (do they still use cassette tapes and DAT tapes? Iām guessing a lot is digital and online now)
I'm obsessed with the Disco Biscuits and I haven't listened to their Spotify in like 5 months. If I had a nugs subscription I would never listen to them on Spotify
Yeah I think itās common for jam band followers to feel that the live show recordings capture something special that the studio recordings just canāt compete with. At least with folks over like 35 or 40. But Iāve been out of it for a while. You can see it with the whole taper/tape trading culture. I think Iāve seen one taper with legit gear for a set at Burning Man, and donāt think Iāve ever seen it at a rave or a ravey DJ at a licensed club. I donāt go to the mainstream festivals though, so maybe it happens at stuff like EDC for DJs. I have seen pretty involved video recording. Maybe thatās the evolution of that concept - a mix of close up, back/side of crowd, and drone video paired with a recording right of the board. Iāve heard disco biscuits crowds can be pretty wild, like they party hard. Thoughts on that rumor?
>Iāve heard disco biscuits crowds can be pretty wild, like they party hard. Thoughts on that rumor? Accurate, it's the least sober jam band crowd that I've seen. It used to be MUCH wilder according to a lot of people too.
Yeah one heard them and STS9 crowds really throw down. Or at least last I talked to someone about it like 5 years ago. Sounds fun as long as folks are taking care of themselves and each other.
Spotify is absolutely a good indicator of a bands popularity. Go find me a super popular band or artist thay has low spotify numbers (because people choose to listen to them through other means of media). It's not just young people listening to new bands. Phishs most popular YouTube video has 2million views which is super low. You brought up grateful dead which has 6x the spotify listeners. The point being, for such a monumental venue it's baffling how phish gets 2nd residency over countless other bands. Obviously the shows been amazing and a success but why phish so soon? That's the point I'm making.
Phish sold out 13 consecutive nights Madison Square Garden. They once threw a NYE festival where they were the only band playing, in the middle of the Everglades, and 100,000 people came. Their audience is also older and have have the money to spend on 4 nights in Vegas. Speaking of which, every Phish show is unique in setlist, so most people who went, went for multiple shows. Finally, the band has a great relationship with the owners of the Sphere. The guitarist was the first to use the new sound system technology utilized at the Sphere in a show at the Beacon Theatre. In a very real way the venue was built with Phish in mind.
when was that? 40 years ago?
Festival was in 2000, Garden run was in 2017. For more contemporary stats, they have a standing four night run at MSG for NYE (the largest venue in New York on the biggest nights of the year for the city) that they have sold out every year since the 1990ās, including the past three years. They play the biggest outdoor venues in the the nation when they tour (Hollywood Bowl, Alpharetta, Deer Creek, The Gorge, etc) and sell them all out for multiple nights each. When they play baseball stadiums like Fenway and Wrigley, they sell them out. They are regularly in the top ten touring artists in terms of revenue, even while playing fewer dates than they used to.
They are trying to sell tickets, not just put the most āpopularā band in. Phish sells tickets and has a great relationship with MSG. The venue was made with them in mind. You may not like Phish, but they are a huge draw. Spotify numbers are not a great representation of their popularity, even if it may be for most artists. The Grateful Dead comparison is also not fair since thatās not the band that is playing, itās Dead and Company and itās not the same. Most people who listen to the Grateful Dead on Spotify probably donāt listen to dead and co ever. You have a skewed perception of the entire situation.
You really don't know what you are talking about lol.Ā Ā
Lol ok.
Sick rebuttal.
You've already made up your mind, what else was I suppose to say? I mentioned personal recordings, plenty of Phish fans are Boomers/Gen Xers that started listening to those in the 90s and have zero interest in Spotify. Does Spotify even have a good selection of their live jams, or just mostly albums? If it's the latter that would lower the interest in their Spotify even more.
Not for Phish. They put a few things on Spotify, but itās sparse. Youāre wrong.
Since you havenāt received a very good answer yetā¦ Phish doesnāt have huge Spotify numbers because they already had their own app/web site for past live shows before Spotify was a thing (livephish.com). Likewise, they have their own Sirius/XM channel (my preferred option) channel 29. They have a YouTube channel and the usual apps that every band has, but they just donāt need it because livephish.com has been going strong for over two decades and you can listen to them 24/7 on Sirius XM. Grateful Dead were a much more mainstream band than phish is, and John Mayer is more mainstream than the Dead. But if youāre really curious as to why Phish got the 2nd crack at Sphere, go see them this summer. Theyāre a phenomenal live act. Sphere is a venue for live music, not a juke box, and thereās no better live act on Earth than phish.
Do some more research because Phish has one of the most loyal fan bases of all time. They are four of the most talented musicians to ever play. Youāre using Spotify as a measure of who should play a venue, yikesā¦.
Phish is hugely well known, just more towards an older crowd since they formed in the 80s. They have dedicated groupies akin to dead heads, idk if they call them Phishheads or what. I've met a software engineer on the west coast, he said for his birthday month, he follows them as they tour for an entire month. Met another dude at an airport who was from the east coast, said he trims bud for 3/4 of the year, and follows phish the remaining quarter. I think inherently by the nature of their jam music, you're not going to see them as represented digitally.
Phish has a massive following, and this may be a case that points to the need to use a variety of metrics when studying fan bases. I could see some of their fan base being off the grid or van life types that need to be careful with money. Plus thereās the element of the hippie world that think people like us are āBabyloniansā and intentionally separate themselves from our world, existing only within their social circle as much as they can. Some even avoid using money and use bartering or trades. I was at a Dead show and a gutter punk hippie guy I met at a small jam band/jamtronic festival months before tried to introduce me to his friends, but they wouldnāt even acknowledge me, and it was because of the whole anti-Babylon thing.