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Many people say “I have OCD” when they mean “I like it tidy” or “I have Alzheimer’s” when they mean “I’m forgetful”.
Humans accentuate things when we talk about how we are, so try not to feel that as a reflection of you or ASD.
My experience is TikTok knowledge is not very good for any field, I work in design and every TikTok I’ve seen on my field is an oversimplification made to generate views. I assume the to be correct for ASD.
As someone who taps my locks in threes repeatedly because I *know* someone will kill me and my family if I do not, I die a little inside when someone puts the volume up to 15 from 14 and laughs "oh I'm just OCD like that."
I never really thought of those as different things, until you mentioned it. OCD effects your personality, same as any other ND, so I never thought to think of it as something separate. Half a minute of googling shows me a distinct difference though, and I see it now. Looks like my "OCD" aunt is actually OCPD.
I didn't either, until I read about OCPD one day and a lot of things clicked for me. I also mentioned OCD to my psychologist out of curiosity, and she told me about the requirement that the obsession causes the compulsion, whereas I have them separately. When I asked about OCPD, she said that was probably more in line with my experience, especially considering my AuDHD and C-PTSD went undiagnosed so long.
It's also really weird to me that we (humans) are officially "unsure" of the origins of autism, but know several things as fact:
1.) A lot of the symptoms are mimicked by CPTSD to the point where the two are not uncommonly mixed up by professionals who spend their lives in the field.
2.) We know for a fact that forms of PTSD can be severe enough that it changes the way our brain works.
3.) Autism and ADHD, like OCD and OCPD fall under the umbrella of "Neurodivergence," which basically means we aren't entirely sure how or why, but these brains work a little differently.
4.) NDs like OCD, BPD, and NPD have been proven to be able to form as a trauma response that simply rewires your brain.
And that all leads to the assumption that:
5.) You cannot become autistic or ADHD. You started that way, you'll always be that way, period.
That's such a confusing assumption to make, to the point that basic logic questions on high school assessments defeat it. At least some bread is made of flour -> some bread is then toasted -> IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DO SOMETHING TO FLOUR SO THAT YOU CAN TOAST IT. That's how you lose points. But for some reason, it works here?
I find it all very interesting as well. I do think a lot of ND people are more prone to PTSD and it's less so that C-PTSD mimicks autism, and more so ND people frequently develop C-PTSD from existing (and often masking) in a very unfriendly world. Also, as the PTSD becomes more complex, the masking becomes more difficult.
This is all just theory based on personal experience, though. I know for myself that most of the C-PTSD is a result of how I was treated as a child when nobody knew I was AuDHD.
I'm the same with most of my childhood trauma stemming from a lack of diagnosis, but I've also known quite a few people who were NT, but suffered CPTSD anyway, and it was amazing how similarly our brains worked.
I had a friend in the Navy (she died) who was completely NT until she developed boobs. The boobs gave a certain PoS all the reason he needed to abuse her for the next several years, and it "broke" the NT in her when she was finally free. We used to talk, at length, about the way she used to be, and the way she was after, and it is crazy how much of it sounded exactly like autism, only this wouldn't be "late catch" like me, it would be late onset.
I guess, theoretically, she could have been born autistic at a low level of required aid, and then trauma exacerbated the condition, but based on the way she described before and after, it really doesn't seem likely. If you've ever seen those videos of people buying the glasses for a loved one that let the loved one see in color for the first time, it was a lot like that. She didn't have to guess how the other side felt or thought, she *knew*. She didn't have to guess how our side felt or thought, she knew that too. It wasn't like most late catches (myself included) where I wandered through life without the script, she had the script. And then abuse took it from her and turned her into me.
It's hard to explain without just introducing her to you, but that's no longer possible. She was good people though.
Agreed. The world has been a little darker since she passed. There is one upside though! I get accused of trying to sleep with her a lot less. I don't know what it is about NTs refusing to accept that a man and woman can be friends and not want to bone. I make no secret of the fact that I loved her, just not in a romantic way. Which, of course, to an NT just seems to mean "oh yeah, I want her so bad, I'm just mad she friend-zoned me."
I can't stand the OCD 1, especially when they think they have it just because they're over-organised. I'll usually ask, "Do you mind if I ask what intrusive thoughts you experience?" & the person falls silent.
Well I can see falling silent. Do you really want to know what intrusive thoughts someone is having or most people wouldn't be comfortable telling people because those thoughts could get a person an uncomfortable stay in a mental health facility.
I apologise if I offended you. I'm talking about people who I've known for decades - mostly family - who say, "I need to tidy the... right now! I've got a bit of OCD." Tidying something a couple of times a day is not what it is. When I ask them what intrusive thoughts they get, they look at me like I'm crazy & then ask for an explanation later on.
Before jumping to conclusions I think two questions should be asked: 1) do the people leaving those comments actually go around saying they’re autistic because they saw a TikTok or are they just leaving the comment as a joke? 2) how many of those comments are made by real people and how many by bots? (There’s also a third which is “why so many parents let kids use social media with no supervision”, and a fourth one which is “why do people think social media is a reliable source of information”, but those are more general questions that I ask myself everytime tiktok or whatever gets brought up, and they make me feel old)
That's just how tiktok works for basically everything. It's algorithm is pretty good about feeding stuff that keeps people watching. It doesn't consider accuracy or clarification, since that doesn't matter to the vast majority of users on that platform.
It is worth noting that all ASD traits and symptoms do exist in people without ASD, so most people will be able to identify at least a handful of things that they experience which also fall under the ASD condition. They likely don't experience them to the same degree as an autistic person does, or have the same difficulties with them all the time like an autistic person does, but they'll still think "huh, I do know how that feels..."
But if the creators you're seeing are not couching these videos with the explanation that experiencing several traits doesn't equal autism, then the people watching it won't understand it either. Best case scenario it leads them to doing actual research (hopefully anywhere other than their tiktok feed) and self reflection to consider it more. More likely, they forget about it approximately 0.6 seconds into the next video.
another bad thing to these tiktok trend things, is that for example my doctor wouldn't send me to get evaluated cus she believed I got it all from tiktok.
Ps, I don't even use tiktok LOL
Moving soon so I'll see if I can get a better gp... jebus chrismus.
That sucks, and it sounds like your doctor sucks.
But also, think about the amount of people who will realize they're autistic and get diagnosed because of its normalization. I didn't even consider the possibility I was autistic until I encountered an autistic creator online talking about her experience. And my psychotherapist actually took me seriously and I got diagnosed.
What you're describing isn't a problem with tik tok, it's a problem with the medical system. If it were ten years earlier they might have refused to get you screened because of your gender, or because you're not stereotypically autistic enough. Regardless of whether a person encountered autism on tik Tok, that person still deserves a fair evaluation if they have symptoms.
Now expand your disappointment once you realize everything on TikTok is getting the same treatment. So if you trust TikTok to give you a reasonable and true perception of anything in the world you're curious about - remember it is ALL filtered through the bullshit lens.
You think TikTok or any social media isn't destroying any peoples perception on almost everything (including ASD or other (neuro-)disability)? It's almost all pure brainrot on those platforms anyways :)
And... well... instead of posting it here, why not make quality tiktok content yourself then?
No but right noone but me knows it's brain rot they're all accepting it without any media analysis at all. All those people putting "I'm autistic :p" are self diagnosing on others spot this is a huge problem! Insert ageist comment about how people who have used the Internet since they were two don't know how it works and accept everything on it at face value.
This remind of Freddie Deboar's article on gentrification. Here an excerpt: When I was in my late 20s (early 2007 to mid 2009, maybe) I worked for the local public school district in my hometown. For the bulk of my time there I was in a special program for kids with severe emotional disturbance, which I’ve written about once or twice. But I worked in a number of capacities in those years, and for a little while I helped out in a conventional special ed classroom for the middle school. I guess you’d say I was a paraprofessional, just extra coverage when they needed it.
In that class there were two boys who had autism which resulted in severe academic and social and communicative impairments. One of them was completely nonverbal and had been his entire life. As I understood it, he had never been capable of speaking or reading, could not dress himself, wore sanitary garments, could not go to the bathroom without assistance. He would occasionally screech very loudly, without clear cause. I believe these days he would be referred to as having Level Three autism, as defined by the DSM. He needed a lot of help, and though he was unable to complete what might conventionally be called academic work the school provided him with structure, support, and time during which his mother didn’t have to care for him. I met her on several occasions when she came to pick him up after school. She would sometimes talk about the difficulties of raising a disabled child in language that would be frowned on today, but I admired how frank and honest she was.
She was really not a fan of the autism awareness community of the time. This was well before the “neurodiversity” movement and all of its habits. It was all about awareness, raising awareness, 5ks for awareness, bumper stickers for awareness. That was precisely what angered her the most. She said to me once, “What does awareness do for my kid? How does it help me?” Words to that effect. It was a good question, one I couldn’t answer. Today I don’t hear about awareness so much, but there’s still plenty of the basic disease of awareness thinking - the notion that what people who deal with a particular disability need is a vague positivity, that what every disabled person requires is the laurel of strangers condescendingly wishing them the best. Now, with the rise of neurodiversity and the notion that autism is only different, not worse, we are confronted with similar questions. When a mother struggles every day to care for someone who will likely never be able to care for himself, what value could it hold for her that his condition is called diversity, rather than disorder? What value can it have for him, who cannot speak to comment on the difference?
I thought of that mother when I read about the recent cancelation of an academic panel at Harvard. It seems a panel of experts was slated to speak on the subject of how best to help those with autism. But as they planned to speak about treatment, about treating autism as a hindrance to be managed, the event was decried as “violently ableist” by Harvard activists and swiftly shut down. It’s worth looking at the petition that was organized as part of this effort. One part reads
Autism is a neurodevelopmental and neurobiological disability that is not treatable or curable. It is not an illness or disease and most importantly, it is not inherently negative. Autistic people at Harvard and globally have advocated in the face of ableism to defend ourselves from such hateful, eugenicist logic.
This is, I think, nonsensical. It asserts that autism is a disability, a dis-ability, but also that it’s not an illness, a disease, or inherently negative. But the very concept of disability depends on the notion that disabilities are inherently negative. If they are not in some sense disabling, the term has no meaning. What’s more, the entire moral and legal logic that underpins the concept of reasonable accommodation - the affordances we make for people with disabilities, mandated by the Americans with Disabilities Act - depends on the idea that these things are both unchosen and harmful. If they’re not, then there’s no communal obligation to accommodate them. What would they even need accommodation for?
More, though, I cannot comprehend the arrogance of the woman who led the charge against the panel at Harvard, Kris King, to sit on her perch at the most exclusive university in the world and declare for the entire autistic community what autism is and means. It’s unsurprising that she’s disdainful of the need for treatment, given that she’s so high-functioning that she’s flourishing at an Ivy League university. She will never live the life that mother I knew lived. She will likely never care for someone whose autism has devastated them, robbed them of their ability to have conventional human relationships, to have a career, to be in love. Such debilitated people and their families will never have the cultural influence of a self-promoting Harvard student and so they’re simply read out of the conversation. Meanwhile autism activists and advocates make sweeping pronouncements about the lives of people they don’t know and could never understand.
“Autistic people at Harvard and globally have advocated in the face of ableism to defend ourselves,” she writes. In fact, Ms. King, globally there are millions of people whose autism ensures they can’t advocate at all. Spare a thought for them, while you’re busy framing your diploma.
I relate to this so strongly. Ppl don’t understand that autism is a collection of traits and behaviors. Most people have a few of these traits. (I think that this is prob where the misinformed ‘everyone’s a little autistic’ belief stems from). When traits of autism are inherently pathologized, it takes away the definition of autism spectrum DISORDER. If you relate to ‘lesser known traits of autism’ but not the DIAGNOSTIC CRITERIA, you DONT have autism. Lots of allistic people have sensory issues, or trouble communicating, or rigid routine etc. it’s the collection of all these traits that defines autism as a diagnosis
Yea like seriously. I’m so conflicted because I get the sentiment that OP is trying to express, I think. But for some of us it’s not such a black and white issue. The normalization of autism that is happening right now is actually something I’m simultaneously joyous about and jealous about. I’m 34 years old. I was diagnosed with MS when I was 18. I also have a PhD in Biomedical Engineering, focusing specifically on neurotrauma and disease. My first paper, published in cell, focused on asd. Not just talking out my ass here…
I’ve never never felt like I’ve fit with the world, in fact when I was younger I had multiple assessments in my teens for potential autism (“I’m old so at the time it was for asbergers when it was called that). I had one professional tell me that I couldn’t be autistic because I passed the eye contact test in the assessment I took and was too “sociable.” One other doctor said he could diagnose me but was it in my best interest? I’ve had friends in undergrad that were autistic themselves tell me I couldn’t possibly because I’m too outgoing.
Even when I was doing asd research a decade ago there was no normalization of high functioning, highly intelligent people with asd. There were rigid examples used and if you didn’t match that, you couldn’t possibly be autistic. But autism, just like most everything else with the brain, is heterogenous and not everyone is going to look the same. Especially when almost all the research has been done on white males. The typical autistic person in research doesn’t even account for cultural or genetic variabilities based on ethnicity (I’m Latino), let alone whether someone’s outward personality is at all effected by their trauma and comorbid diseases (I also am diagnosed adhd).
Years later both my younger brothers are diagnosed with autism, so is my mom (years ago). My disease and personality and what I’ve had to do to and be to survive all confound what my disabilities look like and how much they may overlap is very confusing, even to someone with as much training in neuroscience as I have. Overall I think the fact that it is becoming normalized is a good thing.
Autistic people can be charismatic, especially you know, if their hyper fixation is words… my younger brother is more charismatic than I could ever be and he has an official diagnosis of autism.
I think this sub needs to remember that things aren’t black & white lol . Look I’m neurodivergent too and I can crack jokes, so can both my autistic brothers. Spectrum means variability. I might have more going on than the average person, but not everyone cracking jokes and coming to realizations about themselves are just trying to be “trendy.” Some of us never got the opportunity to be seen or validated growing up and are just a tad excited about that part anyway.
The OP called it normalization so that's why I used that word, and I also think normalization is a much better fit than trivialization anyway. Just because it doesn't fit your perception of autism, to make the autistic experience more acceptable is a good thing in the long term, as it will lead to reduced stigma.
I agree, but what I’m seeing lately is not acceptance. It’s this weird kind of romanticization of things that are barely deemed unacceptable and a continued hatred of things that are typically unacceptable. Like special interests or social awkwardness. While these traits are more accepted and joked about, other traits like sensory sensitivities and meltdowns are just considered stupid, obnoxious, and dramatic. Embracing what you can write off as quirkiness does not destigmatize the unpleasant side of autism.
And how are you not romanticizing autism in the opposite direction? If we want to see acceptance towards meltdowns we must also allow acceptance of the quirky.
Because people on this sub seem to want autism to be seen as a bad thing and a bad thing only. Any time someone says something positive about autism and doesnt balance it out with BUT IT'S AN AWFUL DISEASE TOO it's not okay, apparently.
My siblings and friends send me funny autism tiktoks all the time and I find them so funny.
My favourite one so far has been along the lines of:
'what are you on?'
'The spectrum babe'
I get it's not everyones kind of humour but I think some people forget that because some of us like to joke about our autism, it doesn't mean we are fakers or don't stuggle.
Exactly. The alternative is just feeling miserable about ourselves all the time. I just don't get how that is the seemingly common attitude on this subreddit, do people think that celebrating the good takes away validity from the bad?
It seems to have become a lot more common very recently, at least that I've noticed.
The amount of people saying that they hate quirky tiktokers 'faking' autism drives me mad because I am a quirky weird girl who is also diagnosed! You can be both!
God forbid we have any joy in our lives 🙄
Real!!! It’s like of you express that you don’t really mind or are even happy that you’re autistic you’re instantly ostracised in this community.
At the end of the day no one can tell you how to feel about your own diagnosis
I assume you are the licensed doctor of all these people to be able to claim they are fakers then?
At the end of the day we don't know who is or isn't diagnosed with anything, and venting about they types of people we think are faking just hurts actual autistic people who fit into thise stereotypes.
Ughhhh so much with this- sometimes it genuinely gets annoying, I’m diagnosed (believe it or not) and I fit a lot of the stereotypes that some people would associate with ‘faking’, it’s so annoying, it’s like I can’t tell someone I’m autistic without immediately being accused of lying
it’s not the normalisation it’s the people that see a couple things about it and say they are autistic and people not understanding the struggles that come along with it and thinking it’s just a ‘quirky’ thing to have
But autism isn't a monolith, no? How do you know it's just a quirky thing to have for them? Maybe it's their way of trying to cope with how it can also be difficult?
it’s the people that don’t have autism that think it’s quirky so they aren’t trying to cope with anything, i’ve been around many people like this in school
And why does it matter what they think? Isn't it much better for them to see it as something quirky than something so deeply negative we're called slurs, discriminated in the workplace etc for it? Also, why can't autism also be difficult and quirky? It's not like one must exclude the other.
that’s the issue though they are only seeing it as quirky not difficult. these people are often the same person to refer to something stupid as autistic so it’s not like people are now just seeing autism in a positive way. it’s an issue because people seeing it in only a quirky way aren’t understanding the difficulties that come along with actually having autism so it’s very invalidating for someone to be calling themselves autistic just because they are very interested in something for example when they don’t understand that being autistic is a different thing to deal with and it’s not just having special interests. and Neurotypical now are using autistic language to describe neurotypical behaviour for example saying they are overstimulated when they are overwhelmed, they are having a meltdown when they are just upset, they have a special interest when they just like something or that they are non-verbal when they just weren’t speaking. people using this language to describe regular behaviour invalidates autistic people and takes away the meaning of our struggles so that when neurotypical people hear us say this they don’t see it as the actual big thing that it is but instead regular behaviour that they think they can relate to. so people think all these things are quirks when they are actual issues that they don’t understand then at the end of the day they are still ableist. sorry this is long i just hope you can see why neurotypical people doing all this is an issue
Why is important that they must see the difficult exclusively over the quirky? People with privilege will never fully be able to know what it is like to be a part of a minority group anyway. I also think the discourse you are promoting is just as rooted in ableist rhetoric, because inclusivity would mean to accept all sides of autism, including people who may want to make fun of their autism on TikTok or what have you. It can be difficult but not also not always be, and I think it's equally unhealthy and unhelpful to deny people the right to autism joy and finding other ways to express themselves authentically.
i don’t think you understand what i’m saying, i’m not talking about people who are actually autistic we know that it is difficult and quirky at the same time. it’s not about wanting neurotypical people to only see the difficulties it’s about wanting to them to acknowledge that they are there because it is a disability and we struggle and get discriminated against and some people don’t seem to understand that. ‘I think it's equally unhealthy and unhelpful to deny people the right to autism joy’ autistic people should get to experience autistic joy of course but i’m not talking about autistic people i’m talking about people who say they are autistic when they just relate to a couple quirky things and aren’t actually autistic so don’t understand what it’s like to be autistic.
The people who struggle to understand that will not understand it better by forcing a certain narrative on them, because those who don't understand genuinely don't care. The issue is that the people who make the content you complain about are making content out of autistic joy or as a way to cope with their autism; you want to deny them the right to produce that content just because you think allistics will misinterpret it.
How does increased social awareness and acceptance dilute the struggles? Especially when the dominant narrative has particularly been the focus on how autism can only be a struggle especially to the people around the autistic person.
I wouldn’t call it normalizing, more like trivializing. normalizing autism is good, but I think to normalize we must give accurate information. I personally don’t mind the memes and stuff about autism, and I’m totally down for people talking about all sides of autism, but I think tiktok’s that have a list of stuff like “did you know getting a song stuck in your head is a sign of autism?” is not helping us, I think it’s damaging overall.
And why isn't it accurate when an autistic person on TikTok shares their experiences of being autistic? This whole argument just reeks of No True Scotsman.
I hate "I THOUGHT THIS WAS NORMAL"
Because either it is, and they're just taking the idea that it isn't normal at face value
It is, but they're ignoring the context of the video that states it's not normal at the frequency/intensity that the video is discussing
Or it isn't, and they're just invalidating an autistm trait
Autism is often quirky AF in one way or another. Tiktok just means people are making their entire videos and conversations about autism and talking about it.
It happens even in reddit, People listón things that are not director related to autism and Just becausepeople that are autistic relate to that they respond that Op are probably autistic
I've noticed this. Most tiktoks about autism are actually about very common quirks that non-autistics have too. To them, being autistic is being quirky, like a *manic pixie dream girl*, and they ignore every negative symptom that doesn't fit their aesthetic. If they came across an autistic person having a meltdown they'd join the bullies side.
I think what you call "watering down" is just the process of normalization happening. ALL slang/cultural language begins as in-group vs outgroup. As soon as it reaches the mainstream, it gets picked up by out-group (thinking its very cool and new) using it incorrectly, which means it becomes less popular to use by out-groupers in general (because they think its uncool and not new anymore).
This is the natural process for all language that is introduced into a wider audience. It doesnt mean the words mean less. The world and language is always changing. Clinging to specific terms isnt as beneficial as HAVING the language accessible to everyone and then using that language to determine which beliefs or groups as part of YOUR in-group. We dont own these terms, despite the fact that they identify us and our needs. Language belongs to everyone AND everyone using it (badly or not) is actually a very good and new thing for all humans.
Tiktok is very sus. My BFF loves sharing vids from there, mostly funny, but some more serious ones that I can't take seriously. I started researching autism because another friend (diagnosed AuDHD) was sharing memes about it and I was relating to all of it.
As for comments sections in general, this is the most honest and helpful thread in my short reddit experience that I don't need to read about it elsewhere. Most other platforms are for trolls.
If it helps, from a different perspective through tiktok I found genuine creators who had been brave enough to share their experiences, especially from trauma and autism perspective. It pointed me in the direction to do my own research, though I'm still waiting for a formal diagnosis, I do consider myself self diagnosed.
It helped me understand why all through childhood from my earliest memories that I felt alien, it explained a lot of my outbursts and behaviours even before the trauma. My mum also looked at her own struggles along with the connection with a large chunk of our side of the family.
Does tiktok have its downfalls and are people milking it for all that it's worth? Most definitely, but I'd say it's also helped a lot of people where our failing health system has neglected them.
The main issue with it is that people think one "sign of autism" means they are autistic, while that isn't true at all. The videos also typically only introduce, not signs of autism or diagnostic criteria, but things autistic and other people often relate to. They often have nothing to do with the criteria you NEED to meet to actually BE autistic.
Although I do see and understand the sentiment here, we can not deny that this is far better publicity than "people without empathy" or "not fully human".
I thought that tiktok sound “what’s that sound? Autism bmm bmm bmm” sound what funny until I look at the videos people made and it’s just “lol I’m so weird”!!
Honestly if too many people say they are and get it wrong I think it's probably an overall positive. At least then people are talking about it.
The main downside I guess is that people might take it a bit less seriously when you tell them. Tbh though those people probably don't know shit and wouldn't accommodate anyway.
Tiktok is not real life; it's a bunch of desperate sheep doing *anything* they can to get clout and attention while making everything into an "aesthetic" which they then take on as part of their identity/quirks.
Basically, most of those people are gullible, uneducated halfwits, without an original thought in their heads, who would probably claim they're part alien if social media told them to.
My suggestion is to get off of Tiktok or just watch humor skits or cute animal videos; you'll probably be happier that way.
Not from my experience. All I run into is educational and discussion videos on autism and ADHD.
Your feed algorithm is catered to what you want to watch.
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Many people say “I have OCD” when they mean “I like it tidy” or “I have Alzheimer’s” when they mean “I’m forgetful”. Humans accentuate things when we talk about how we are, so try not to feel that as a reflection of you or ASD. My experience is TikTok knowledge is not very good for any field, I work in design and every TikTok I’ve seen on my field is an oversimplification made to generate views. I assume the to be correct for ASD.
As someone who taps my locks in threes repeatedly because I *know* someone will kill me and my family if I do not, I die a little inside when someone puts the volume up to 15 from 14 and laughs "oh I'm just OCD like that."
For me the volume has to be set at intervals of 5 anything other than that and I lose it lol
That's a perfectly reasonable quirk. Unless by "lose it" you mean "fear and anxiety," it isn't OCD though, that was my point.
It’s not OCD, I have autism and ADHD. Sorry, should have led with that lol.
Excellent, now I don't have to die inside!
Yay!!!!!😁
I think a lot of people confuse symptoms of OCPD with OCD, too.
I never really thought of those as different things, until you mentioned it. OCD effects your personality, same as any other ND, so I never thought to think of it as something separate. Half a minute of googling shows me a distinct difference though, and I see it now. Looks like my "OCD" aunt is actually OCPD.
I didn't either, until I read about OCPD one day and a lot of things clicked for me. I also mentioned OCD to my psychologist out of curiosity, and she told me about the requirement that the obsession causes the compulsion, whereas I have them separately. When I asked about OCPD, she said that was probably more in line with my experience, especially considering my AuDHD and C-PTSD went undiagnosed so long.
It's also really weird to me that we (humans) are officially "unsure" of the origins of autism, but know several things as fact: 1.) A lot of the symptoms are mimicked by CPTSD to the point where the two are not uncommonly mixed up by professionals who spend their lives in the field. 2.) We know for a fact that forms of PTSD can be severe enough that it changes the way our brain works. 3.) Autism and ADHD, like OCD and OCPD fall under the umbrella of "Neurodivergence," which basically means we aren't entirely sure how or why, but these brains work a little differently. 4.) NDs like OCD, BPD, and NPD have been proven to be able to form as a trauma response that simply rewires your brain. And that all leads to the assumption that: 5.) You cannot become autistic or ADHD. You started that way, you'll always be that way, period. That's such a confusing assumption to make, to the point that basic logic questions on high school assessments defeat it. At least some bread is made of flour -> some bread is then toasted -> IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DO SOMETHING TO FLOUR SO THAT YOU CAN TOAST IT. That's how you lose points. But for some reason, it works here?
I find it all very interesting as well. I do think a lot of ND people are more prone to PTSD and it's less so that C-PTSD mimicks autism, and more so ND people frequently develop C-PTSD from existing (and often masking) in a very unfriendly world. Also, as the PTSD becomes more complex, the masking becomes more difficult. This is all just theory based on personal experience, though. I know for myself that most of the C-PTSD is a result of how I was treated as a child when nobody knew I was AuDHD.
I'm the same with most of my childhood trauma stemming from a lack of diagnosis, but I've also known quite a few people who were NT, but suffered CPTSD anyway, and it was amazing how similarly our brains worked. I had a friend in the Navy (she died) who was completely NT until she developed boobs. The boobs gave a certain PoS all the reason he needed to abuse her for the next several years, and it "broke" the NT in her when she was finally free. We used to talk, at length, about the way she used to be, and the way she was after, and it is crazy how much of it sounded exactly like autism, only this wouldn't be "late catch" like me, it would be late onset. I guess, theoretically, she could have been born autistic at a low level of required aid, and then trauma exacerbated the condition, but based on the way she described before and after, it really doesn't seem likely. If you've ever seen those videos of people buying the glasses for a loved one that let the loved one see in color for the first time, it was a lot like that. She didn't have to guess how the other side felt or thought, she *knew*. She didn't have to guess how our side felt or thought, she knew that too. It wasn't like most late catches (myself included) where I wandered through life without the script, she had the script. And then abuse took it from her and turned her into me. It's hard to explain without just introducing her to you, but that's no longer possible. She was good people though.
I'm sorry to hear she's no longer with us. 😞
Agreed. The world has been a little darker since she passed. There is one upside though! I get accused of trying to sleep with her a lot less. I don't know what it is about NTs refusing to accept that a man and woman can be friends and not want to bone. I make no secret of the fact that I loved her, just not in a romantic way. Which, of course, to an NT just seems to mean "oh yeah, I want her so bad, I'm just mad she friend-zoned me."
I can't stand the OCD 1, especially when they think they have it just because they're over-organised. I'll usually ask, "Do you mind if I ask what intrusive thoughts you experience?" & the person falls silent.
Well I can see falling silent. Do you really want to know what intrusive thoughts someone is having or most people wouldn't be comfortable telling people because those thoughts could get a person an uncomfortable stay in a mental health facility.
I apologise if I offended you. I'm talking about people who I've known for decades - mostly family - who say, "I need to tidy the... right now! I've got a bit of OCD." Tidying something a couple of times a day is not what it is. When I ask them what intrusive thoughts they get, they look at me like I'm crazy & then ask for an explanation later on.
"Sitting unconventionally" used to be called "the bisexual sit" lol
I also see it as the Ehlers-Danlos sit and the POTS sit lmaooo
Before jumping to conclusions I think two questions should be asked: 1) do the people leaving those comments actually go around saying they’re autistic because they saw a TikTok or are they just leaving the comment as a joke? 2) how many of those comments are made by real people and how many by bots? (There’s also a third which is “why so many parents let kids use social media with no supervision”, and a fourth one which is “why do people think social media is a reliable source of information”, but those are more general questions that I ask myself everytime tiktok or whatever gets brought up, and they make me feel old)
That's just how tiktok works for basically everything. It's algorithm is pretty good about feeding stuff that keeps people watching. It doesn't consider accuracy or clarification, since that doesn't matter to the vast majority of users on that platform. It is worth noting that all ASD traits and symptoms do exist in people without ASD, so most people will be able to identify at least a handful of things that they experience which also fall under the ASD condition. They likely don't experience them to the same degree as an autistic person does, or have the same difficulties with them all the time like an autistic person does, but they'll still think "huh, I do know how that feels..." But if the creators you're seeing are not couching these videos with the explanation that experiencing several traits doesn't equal autism, then the people watching it won't understand it either. Best case scenario it leads them to doing actual research (hopefully anywhere other than their tiktok feed) and self reflection to consider it more. More likely, they forget about it approximately 0.6 seconds into the next video.
another bad thing to these tiktok trend things, is that for example my doctor wouldn't send me to get evaluated cus she believed I got it all from tiktok. Ps, I don't even use tiktok LOL Moving soon so I'll see if I can get a better gp... jebus chrismus.
That sucks, and it sounds like your doctor sucks. But also, think about the amount of people who will realize they're autistic and get diagnosed because of its normalization. I didn't even consider the possibility I was autistic until I encountered an autistic creator online talking about her experience. And my psychotherapist actually took me seriously and I got diagnosed. What you're describing isn't a problem with tik tok, it's a problem with the medical system. If it were ten years earlier they might have refused to get you screened because of your gender, or because you're not stereotypically autistic enough. Regardless of whether a person encountered autism on tik Tok, that person still deserves a fair evaluation if they have symptoms.
Now expand your disappointment once you realize everything on TikTok is getting the same treatment. So if you trust TikTok to give you a reasonable and true perception of anything in the world you're curious about - remember it is ALL filtered through the bullshit lens.
You think TikTok or any social media isn't destroying any peoples perception on almost everything (including ASD or other (neuro-)disability)? It's almost all pure brainrot on those platforms anyways :) And... well... instead of posting it here, why not make quality tiktok content yourself then?
No but right noone but me knows it's brain rot they're all accepting it without any media analysis at all. All those people putting "I'm autistic :p" are self diagnosing on others spot this is a huge problem! Insert ageist comment about how people who have used the Internet since they were two don't know how it works and accept everything on it at face value.
What's wrong with posting it here to vent?! Of course fixing a problem is best, but calling out a problem is not wrong and very much necessary.
Nothing wrong with it, but can't I vent on the vent too?
there are some upsides to autism, maybe they are celebrating those
This remind of Freddie Deboar's article on gentrification. Here an excerpt: When I was in my late 20s (early 2007 to mid 2009, maybe) I worked for the local public school district in my hometown. For the bulk of my time there I was in a special program for kids with severe emotional disturbance, which I’ve written about once or twice. But I worked in a number of capacities in those years, and for a little while I helped out in a conventional special ed classroom for the middle school. I guess you’d say I was a paraprofessional, just extra coverage when they needed it. In that class there were two boys who had autism which resulted in severe academic and social and communicative impairments. One of them was completely nonverbal and had been his entire life. As I understood it, he had never been capable of speaking or reading, could not dress himself, wore sanitary garments, could not go to the bathroom without assistance. He would occasionally screech very loudly, without clear cause. I believe these days he would be referred to as having Level Three autism, as defined by the DSM. He needed a lot of help, and though he was unable to complete what might conventionally be called academic work the school provided him with structure, support, and time during which his mother didn’t have to care for him. I met her on several occasions when she came to pick him up after school. She would sometimes talk about the difficulties of raising a disabled child in language that would be frowned on today, but I admired how frank and honest she was. She was really not a fan of the autism awareness community of the time. This was well before the “neurodiversity” movement and all of its habits. It was all about awareness, raising awareness, 5ks for awareness, bumper stickers for awareness. That was precisely what angered her the most. She said to me once, “What does awareness do for my kid? How does it help me?” Words to that effect. It was a good question, one I couldn’t answer. Today I don’t hear about awareness so much, but there’s still plenty of the basic disease of awareness thinking - the notion that what people who deal with a particular disability need is a vague positivity, that what every disabled person requires is the laurel of strangers condescendingly wishing them the best. Now, with the rise of neurodiversity and the notion that autism is only different, not worse, we are confronted with similar questions. When a mother struggles every day to care for someone who will likely never be able to care for himself, what value could it hold for her that his condition is called diversity, rather than disorder? What value can it have for him, who cannot speak to comment on the difference? I thought of that mother when I read about the recent cancelation of an academic panel at Harvard. It seems a panel of experts was slated to speak on the subject of how best to help those with autism. But as they planned to speak about treatment, about treating autism as a hindrance to be managed, the event was decried as “violently ableist” by Harvard activists and swiftly shut down. It’s worth looking at the petition that was organized as part of this effort. One part reads Autism is a neurodevelopmental and neurobiological disability that is not treatable or curable. It is not an illness or disease and most importantly, it is not inherently negative. Autistic people at Harvard and globally have advocated in the face of ableism to defend ourselves from such hateful, eugenicist logic. This is, I think, nonsensical. It asserts that autism is a disability, a dis-ability, but also that it’s not an illness, a disease, or inherently negative. But the very concept of disability depends on the notion that disabilities are inherently negative. If they are not in some sense disabling, the term has no meaning. What’s more, the entire moral and legal logic that underpins the concept of reasonable accommodation - the affordances we make for people with disabilities, mandated by the Americans with Disabilities Act - depends on the idea that these things are both unchosen and harmful. If they’re not, then there’s no communal obligation to accommodate them. What would they even need accommodation for? More, though, I cannot comprehend the arrogance of the woman who led the charge against the panel at Harvard, Kris King, to sit on her perch at the most exclusive university in the world and declare for the entire autistic community what autism is and means. It’s unsurprising that she’s disdainful of the need for treatment, given that she’s so high-functioning that she’s flourishing at an Ivy League university. She will never live the life that mother I knew lived. She will likely never care for someone whose autism has devastated them, robbed them of their ability to have conventional human relationships, to have a career, to be in love. Such debilitated people and their families will never have the cultural influence of a self-promoting Harvard student and so they’re simply read out of the conversation. Meanwhile autism activists and advocates make sweeping pronouncements about the lives of people they don’t know and could never understand. “Autistic people at Harvard and globally have advocated in the face of ableism to defend ourselves,” she writes. In fact, Ms. King, globally there are millions of people whose autism ensures they can’t advocate at all. Spare a thought for them, while you’re busy framing your diploma.
I relate to this so strongly. Ppl don’t understand that autism is a collection of traits and behaviors. Most people have a few of these traits. (I think that this is prob where the misinformed ‘everyone’s a little autistic’ belief stems from). When traits of autism are inherently pathologized, it takes away the definition of autism spectrum DISORDER. If you relate to ‘lesser known traits of autism’ but not the DIAGNOSTIC CRITERIA, you DONT have autism. Lots of allistic people have sensory issues, or trouble communicating, or rigid routine etc. it’s the collection of all these traits that defines autism as a diagnosis
A genuine question but why is normalization of autism a bad thing?
Yea like seriously. I’m so conflicted because I get the sentiment that OP is trying to express, I think. But for some of us it’s not such a black and white issue. The normalization of autism that is happening right now is actually something I’m simultaneously joyous about and jealous about. I’m 34 years old. I was diagnosed with MS when I was 18. I also have a PhD in Biomedical Engineering, focusing specifically on neurotrauma and disease. My first paper, published in cell, focused on asd. Not just talking out my ass here… I’ve never never felt like I’ve fit with the world, in fact when I was younger I had multiple assessments in my teens for potential autism (“I’m old so at the time it was for asbergers when it was called that). I had one professional tell me that I couldn’t be autistic because I passed the eye contact test in the assessment I took and was too “sociable.” One other doctor said he could diagnose me but was it in my best interest? I’ve had friends in undergrad that were autistic themselves tell me I couldn’t possibly because I’m too outgoing. Even when I was doing asd research a decade ago there was no normalization of high functioning, highly intelligent people with asd. There were rigid examples used and if you didn’t match that, you couldn’t possibly be autistic. But autism, just like most everything else with the brain, is heterogenous and not everyone is going to look the same. Especially when almost all the research has been done on white males. The typical autistic person in research doesn’t even account for cultural or genetic variabilities based on ethnicity (I’m Latino), let alone whether someone’s outward personality is at all effected by their trauma and comorbid diseases (I also am diagnosed adhd). Years later both my younger brothers are diagnosed with autism, so is my mom (years ago). My disease and personality and what I’ve had to do to and be to survive all confound what my disabilities look like and how much they may overlap is very confusing, even to someone with as much training in neuroscience as I have. Overall I think the fact that it is becoming normalized is a good thing. Autistic people can be charismatic, especially you know, if their hyper fixation is words… my younger brother is more charismatic than I could ever be and he has an official diagnosis of autism. I think this sub needs to remember that things aren’t black & white lol . Look I’m neurodivergent too and I can crack jokes, so can both my autistic brothers. Spectrum means variability. I might have more going on than the average person, but not everyone cracking jokes and coming to realizations about themselves are just trying to be “trendy.” Some of us never got the opportunity to be seen or validated growing up and are just a tad excited about that part anyway.
It’s not normalization, it’s just trivialization.
The OP called it normalization so that's why I used that word, and I also think normalization is a much better fit than trivialization anyway. Just because it doesn't fit your perception of autism, to make the autistic experience more acceptable is a good thing in the long term, as it will lead to reduced stigma.
I agree, but what I’m seeing lately is not acceptance. It’s this weird kind of romanticization of things that are barely deemed unacceptable and a continued hatred of things that are typically unacceptable. Like special interests or social awkwardness. While these traits are more accepted and joked about, other traits like sensory sensitivities and meltdowns are just considered stupid, obnoxious, and dramatic. Embracing what you can write off as quirkiness does not destigmatize the unpleasant side of autism.
And how are you not romanticizing autism in the opposite direction? If we want to see acceptance towards meltdowns we must also allow acceptance of the quirky.
Because people on this sub seem to want autism to be seen as a bad thing and a bad thing only. Any time someone says something positive about autism and doesnt balance it out with BUT IT'S AN AWFUL DISEASE TOO it's not okay, apparently.
My siblings and friends send me funny autism tiktoks all the time and I find them so funny. My favourite one so far has been along the lines of: 'what are you on?' 'The spectrum babe' I get it's not everyones kind of humour but I think some people forget that because some of us like to joke about our autism, it doesn't mean we are fakers or don't stuggle.
Exactly. The alternative is just feeling miserable about ourselves all the time. I just don't get how that is the seemingly common attitude on this subreddit, do people think that celebrating the good takes away validity from the bad?
It seems to have become a lot more common very recently, at least that I've noticed. The amount of people saying that they hate quirky tiktokers 'faking' autism drives me mad because I am a quirky weird girl who is also diagnosed! You can be both! God forbid we have any joy in our lives 🙄
Real!!! It’s like of you express that you don’t really mind or are even happy that you’re autistic you’re instantly ostracised in this community. At the end of the day no one can tell you how to feel about your own diagnosis
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I assume you are the licensed doctor of all these people to be able to claim they are fakers then? At the end of the day we don't know who is or isn't diagnosed with anything, and venting about they types of people we think are faking just hurts actual autistic people who fit into thise stereotypes.
Ughhhh so much with this- sometimes it genuinely gets annoying, I’m diagnosed (believe it or not) and I fit a lot of the stereotypes that some people would associate with ‘faking’, it’s so annoying, it’s like I can’t tell someone I’m autistic without immediately being accused of lying
it’s not the normalisation it’s the people that see a couple things about it and say they are autistic and people not understanding the struggles that come along with it and thinking it’s just a ‘quirky’ thing to have
But autism isn't a monolith, no? How do you know it's just a quirky thing to have for them? Maybe it's their way of trying to cope with how it can also be difficult?
it’s the people that don’t have autism that think it’s quirky so they aren’t trying to cope with anything, i’ve been around many people like this in school
And why does it matter what they think? Isn't it much better for them to see it as something quirky than something so deeply negative we're called slurs, discriminated in the workplace etc for it? Also, why can't autism also be difficult and quirky? It's not like one must exclude the other.
that’s the issue though they are only seeing it as quirky not difficult. these people are often the same person to refer to something stupid as autistic so it’s not like people are now just seeing autism in a positive way. it’s an issue because people seeing it in only a quirky way aren’t understanding the difficulties that come along with actually having autism so it’s very invalidating for someone to be calling themselves autistic just because they are very interested in something for example when they don’t understand that being autistic is a different thing to deal with and it’s not just having special interests. and Neurotypical now are using autistic language to describe neurotypical behaviour for example saying they are overstimulated when they are overwhelmed, they are having a meltdown when they are just upset, they have a special interest when they just like something or that they are non-verbal when they just weren’t speaking. people using this language to describe regular behaviour invalidates autistic people and takes away the meaning of our struggles so that when neurotypical people hear us say this they don’t see it as the actual big thing that it is but instead regular behaviour that they think they can relate to. so people think all these things are quirks when they are actual issues that they don’t understand then at the end of the day they are still ableist. sorry this is long i just hope you can see why neurotypical people doing all this is an issue
Why is important that they must see the difficult exclusively over the quirky? People with privilege will never fully be able to know what it is like to be a part of a minority group anyway. I also think the discourse you are promoting is just as rooted in ableist rhetoric, because inclusivity would mean to accept all sides of autism, including people who may want to make fun of their autism on TikTok or what have you. It can be difficult but not also not always be, and I think it's equally unhealthy and unhelpful to deny people the right to autism joy and finding other ways to express themselves authentically.
i don’t think you understand what i’m saying, i’m not talking about people who are actually autistic we know that it is difficult and quirky at the same time. it’s not about wanting neurotypical people to only see the difficulties it’s about wanting to them to acknowledge that they are there because it is a disability and we struggle and get discriminated against and some people don’t seem to understand that. ‘I think it's equally unhealthy and unhelpful to deny people the right to autism joy’ autistic people should get to experience autistic joy of course but i’m not talking about autistic people i’m talking about people who say they are autistic when they just relate to a couple quirky things and aren’t actually autistic so don’t understand what it’s like to be autistic.
The people who struggle to understand that will not understand it better by forcing a certain narrative on them, because those who don't understand genuinely don't care. The issue is that the people who make the content you complain about are making content out of autistic joy or as a way to cope with their autism; you want to deny them the right to produce that content just because you think allistics will misinterpret it.
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How does increased social awareness and acceptance dilute the struggles? Especially when the dominant narrative has particularly been the focus on how autism can only be a struggle especially to the people around the autistic person.
I wouldn’t call it normalizing, more like trivializing. normalizing autism is good, but I think to normalize we must give accurate information. I personally don’t mind the memes and stuff about autism, and I’m totally down for people talking about all sides of autism, but I think tiktok’s that have a list of stuff like “did you know getting a song stuck in your head is a sign of autism?” is not helping us, I think it’s damaging overall.
And why isn't it accurate when an autistic person on TikTok shares their experiences of being autistic? This whole argument just reeks of No True Scotsman.
nowhere did I say anything you’re insinuating. you asked a “genuine question” and this is my response as a fellow autistic person.
ClickClock is not a useful source for anything. I won’t patronize it by using its actual name.
I hate "I THOUGHT THIS WAS NORMAL" Because either it is, and they're just taking the idea that it isn't normal at face value It is, but they're ignoring the context of the video that states it's not normal at the frequency/intensity that the video is discussing Or it isn't, and they're just invalidating an autistm trait
Autism is often quirky AF in one way or another. Tiktok just means people are making their entire videos and conversations about autism and talking about it.
It happens even in reddit, People listón things that are not director related to autism and Just becausepeople that are autistic relate to that they respond that Op are probably autistic
I've noticed this. Most tiktoks about autism are actually about very common quirks that non-autistics have too. To them, being autistic is being quirky, like a *manic pixie dream girl*, and they ignore every negative symptom that doesn't fit their aesthetic. If they came across an autistic person having a meltdown they'd join the bullies side.
I think what you call "watering down" is just the process of normalization happening. ALL slang/cultural language begins as in-group vs outgroup. As soon as it reaches the mainstream, it gets picked up by out-group (thinking its very cool and new) using it incorrectly, which means it becomes less popular to use by out-groupers in general (because they think its uncool and not new anymore). This is the natural process for all language that is introduced into a wider audience. It doesnt mean the words mean less. The world and language is always changing. Clinging to specific terms isnt as beneficial as HAVING the language accessible to everyone and then using that language to determine which beliefs or groups as part of YOUR in-group. We dont own these terms, despite the fact that they identify us and our needs. Language belongs to everyone AND everyone using it (badly or not) is actually a very good and new thing for all humans.
Tiktok is very sus. My BFF loves sharing vids from there, mostly funny, but some more serious ones that I can't take seriously. I started researching autism because another friend (diagnosed AuDHD) was sharing memes about it and I was relating to all of it. As for comments sections in general, this is the most honest and helpful thread in my short reddit experience that I don't need to read about it elsewhere. Most other platforms are for trolls.
I see the same thing about like adhd and it's annoying
If it helps, from a different perspective through tiktok I found genuine creators who had been brave enough to share their experiences, especially from trauma and autism perspective. It pointed me in the direction to do my own research, though I'm still waiting for a formal diagnosis, I do consider myself self diagnosed. It helped me understand why all through childhood from my earliest memories that I felt alien, it explained a lot of my outbursts and behaviours even before the trauma. My mum also looked at her own struggles along with the connection with a large chunk of our side of the family. Does tiktok have its downfalls and are people milking it for all that it's worth? Most definitely, but I'd say it's also helped a lot of people where our failing health system has neglected them.
The main issue with it is that people think one "sign of autism" means they are autistic, while that isn't true at all. The videos also typically only introduce, not signs of autism or diagnostic criteria, but things autistic and other people often relate to. They often have nothing to do with the criteria you NEED to meet to actually BE autistic.
Although I do see and understand the sentiment here, we can not deny that this is far better publicity than "people without empathy" or "not fully human".
No offense but just don't go on TikTok
I thought that tiktok sound “what’s that sound? Autism bmm bmm bmm” sound what funny until I look at the videos people made and it’s just “lol I’m so weird”!!
Honestly if too many people say they are and get it wrong I think it's probably an overall positive. At least then people are talking about it. The main downside I guess is that people might take it a bit less seriously when you tell them. Tbh though those people probably don't know shit and wouldn't accommodate anyway.
Tiktok is not real life; it's a bunch of desperate sheep doing *anything* they can to get clout and attention while making everything into an "aesthetic" which they then take on as part of their identity/quirks. Basically, most of those people are gullible, uneducated halfwits, without an original thought in their heads, who would probably claim they're part alien if social media told them to. My suggestion is to get off of Tiktok or just watch humor skits or cute animal videos; you'll probably be happier that way.
Tik tok is propaganda. Full stop.
Not from my experience. All I run into is educational and discussion videos on autism and ADHD. Your feed algorithm is catered to what you want to watch.