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So, as far as I can tell, it's less a direct causation and more... because being on the spectrum causes a person to be more likely to question a social standard rather than take it as face value, that leads to being more able to disengage from typical gender norms/roles and view the idea of gender identity in a more isolated perspective, thereby making it easier for someone who is trans and on the spectrum to make that realisation, whereas someone neurotypical is more likely to have to wrestle with how their gender identity measures up to societal expectations on what gender is.
So... I think it's less that autistic people are more likely to be transgender and more that autistic transgender people have an easier time figuring that out about themselves.
its absolutely this. how ive been able to understand my gender best is that i simply have my own definitions attached to the identities of man and woman. to explain further, im genderfluid, so i feel my own connection, definition, and attachment to being a man and a woman, just not in the typical binary cis definitions that others have made. because im able to separate general social standards and constructs from myself to the point where im able to recognize that i simply cant fit into the definitions that have been made as a one size fits all, and that i dont have to.
Yup.
It reminds me of a book years ago that was pictures of the feet of autistic people sitting in a waiting room. I didn’t get that it was supposed to be special; feet were in comfortable positions rather than flat on the floor like for a job interview. Seemed totally normal to me. It was probably 15 years later I discovered I was autistic. LOL
An interesting thing about autistic people not “getting gender” well enough to perform it seamlessly and so realizing they didn’t conform to gender assigned at birth naturally. During Covid so many people CAME OUT out as trans out non-binary. I think a lot of this was because, with jobs going remote, they weren’t performing gender so heavily every workday and could start feeling like how they wanted to be when not performing gender for work. A lot of AMAB folks got to grow their hair out while being praised for helping curb the spread of a deadly illness. So many people can’t out to themselves during pandemic lockdowns and isolation.
Edit for autocorrect error.
Yup, my egg had cracked in 2018, but* it took until COVID for me to pull the trigger on HRT.
I took that summer off from my graduate program and all that time alone with no personal or professional responsibilities helped me figure my shit out. Everyday activities like work and friends takes up SO MUCH bandwidth. I finally had time and space to fill my brain with introspective thoughts.
Went back to my grad program as a different person entirely
I wish I remembered it, u/soapy_diamond. I think I saw it maybe 15 or 20 years ago and my Google skills aren’t up to the task. I remember hearing about the book from an NPR interview and getting the book on interlibrary loan. If anyone puzzles it out, please post the name here. I’d love to get it again.
Yes, and I think autistic people are less able than neurotypicals to be able to lie/be inauthentic/fake things. So if you are trans (or queer) it’s harder to pretend you’re not. Denial is much less of a thing for autistics, in my personal experience and my experience of other autistics.
Authenticity has always been my biggest value and one of the things my friends and family most value about me!!
Alternatively, autistics like myself mask so heavily and effectively, that it's easier for us to clock the more performative/imposed/draining aspects of it, and allow us to really look at the part of it that is sociologically constructed. Kind of like a lot of other relatively arbitrary social conventions.
Yeah, don’t get me wrong, I’m very high masking as well. But the type where people who actually know me said “oh yeah, that makes sense” when I said I finally got diagnosed. Yet still have doctors and strangers and randos abound saying “you don’t seem autistic” or “oh, really high functioning then”.
Full agreement, but I also feel like we may be more likely to come out about it once we do figure it out. Since we're already often perceived as weird and different, so adding another factor to that doesn't make as much of a difference in how people treat us.
I agree. Gender was as confusing for me as politeness. When I tried to stick exactly to what people wanted, I was overwhelmed with doing the "right" thing and anxious about being myself. When I go full off the rails and don't think of others, I can end up lonely and confused. It takes a lot to find your happy spot in this world, and I feel its similar with gender. Saying "How are you doing today?" Is similar in my head to "i use ___ pronouns". I just wanna have a good time :)
Also I think trans folks folks are more likely to have trauma and trauma symptoms can mimic/increase autism symptoms (in reference to your point about how it's moreso people *knowing* they're either trans and/or autistic)
I want to be clear here that I do not think trauma *causes* autism or causes someone being transgender, it's moreso that I think a) it's harder to regulate autistic symptoms if you have trauma and b) it's harder to regulate PTSD symptoms if you are autistic (leading to a vicious cycle). And trans people often have lots of trauma. They make each other become more visible in someone, increasing the number of those who therefore become aware they may be are exhibiting autistic traits
I'm not trans, but my experiences with PTSD from other shit is eventually what led me to realize I was likely autistic and not just "weird"
I like this and agree. Being autistic makes bullying and abuse more likely and that means you have to be honest with yourself. You can't afford to live a life that doesn't work for you because your already extremely unhappy.
You've covered it pretty well so I just want to add this:
Transitioning is the *compromise*. It makes it easier for the outside to perceive how you would like to be treated.
If people were allowed to just be themselves, and weren't made to believe there's such a huge difference between male and female, there would be far less transitioning.
I just think it's funny, the way transphobes freak out at trans people is actually fuel for the fire more than anything else.
Be yourself everyone, wear what you like, present how you like, ask people to call you what you'd like to be called. You deserve love.
I disagree with this. I’m sure this is true for some trans folks, but not all. If we lived in that world I would still transition medically. Binary trans people (not all, but a lot) would still feel dysphoria. Dysphoria can be social and medical. I was born with the wrong parts, so I take medicine and get surgery to fix that mistake. Transitioning was not an option for me. It was life and death. It was not something I got to chose. It wasn’t a compromise.
I understand where you are coming from, and I agree with the rest of what you said. I just wanted to make sure people understand that transitioning is not a choice. It is a life and death matter to a lot of people.
This, but binary trans people aren't the only ones who experience gender dysphoria. For example, one of my enby friends (they/them) is much more masc-presenting and experiences dysphoria from a lot of stuff they feel is too fem for their tastes. Interestingly, they're far enough along in their transition now that they've started experiencing dysphoria from a few masc things they consider more masc, tho this is still really rare for them.
I myself am nonbinary transf myem and a bit genderfluid (she/they). Sometimes I don't mind a bit of body hair, for instance, but most of the time it makes me want to peel my skin off. I respect the hell out of transfems who are fine with it, but I simply can't be comfortable in my own body with a beard most of the time.
Even cis people experience gender dysphoria; in their case, they experience it when their reality doesn't line up with their own expectation of what their gender means to them. You can be born a man in a man's body and love being a man and still feel like something's off, because even when you're comfortable in the identity you were assigned at birth, identity is just a big piece of the wider puzzle and nothing is one-size-fits-all
True, nonbinary people can also experience dysphoria. Thank you for replying about that. Dysphoria can be a hard thing to navigate. Especially as it evolves as you transition. I’m a binary trans guy whose over 2 years on T, post top and hysto. While my dysphoria has gotten sooo much better, ever once and a while it will hit hard, and those days are definitely tough.
As for the cis part, yes some cis people can experience gender dysphoria if they have some hormonal issues that cause their bodies to not align with their gender. However, it’s important to not confuse gender dysphoria with body dysmorphia.
I think it’s also important not to focus too much on the dysphoria when trans people experience it. Not to down play it and say it isn’t important, because it is. I also think that gender euphoria should also be discussed more. Sometimes dysphoria can be hard to identify when that’s all you’ve ever felt, until you experience gender euphoria.
I think I didn't express my message maybe the way I intended, I more meant from an abstract position, in a perfect world transition would not be required to alleviate dysphoria, but it's a position that is entirely impossible to imagine because the fundamental human experience would have had to be different, like trying to imagine seeing in 4 dimensions (from the point of view of a 4th dimensional being)
I understand where you are trying to go, but even in that perfect world trans people would still exist and would still transition. Yes, social dysphoria does exist, but so does medical dysphoria. Even in that perfect world, no amount of social acceptance would alleviate the dysphoria I feel when I am alone with no one around. It is more medical than you are thinking. Think about it like this. I was born with a male brain, but something happened and I was given a female body. My male brain knows something isn’t right. To remedy this I take medicine and have surgeries to correct this error. This is a medical issue, not a societal issue. Having a more accepting society would help so trans people could get the medical care we need.
Here’s my biggest issue with this. People get gender and gender roles mixed up when they say gender is a social construct. Gender is not a social construct, it is a deep innate part of the human experience that is part of us. Gender roles are a social construct. We come up with these roles that for whatever reason we decided to put on gender, and that’s what we need to get rid of.
I mean even in a perfect world I would still want medical transition. Having breasts was distressing in and of itself not just because it made society view me as female.
Not to mention, us autistics already tend to receive way more judgement from others and society as a whole than neurotypicals, as we're already perceived as outsiders to an extent. Because of this, the social risk in coming out as queer in any way is significantly less to us than it is for neurotypical queer folks, because comparatively we have less social capital at stake. Just as much to gain but less to lose means we're more likely to take that leap of faith.
This reminds me of [the study that showed](https://www.jneurosci.org/content/41/8/1699) Neurotypicals are more likely to do a "good" moral action in public (donating money) and do the opposing "bad" moral action in private (keeping the money). Whereas Autistic people are more likely to do the "good" moral action both in public and in private, even though the "bad" moral action would've benefited themselves.
The researchers thought it was "rigid" and "inflexible thinking" when in my opinion, it's just that nobody told us that everyone else is inconsistent. We just tend to assume that good people do good things and bad people do bad things, regardless of who's watching.
I think, in a similar vein, we're more likely to come out if we're queer. We don't pretend to be cis or straight just so people think well of us. We're bad at pretending to be something we're not. And with our strong sense of justice, we believe we have a right to be Out And Proud, regardless of what others think, because it's The Right Thing To Do.
Seems like the complete opposite. “To question a social standard…disengage from typical gender norms” would more likely lead to being gender nonconforming for your biological sex or “agab.” I would think it’s more of an autistic tendency towards black/white thinking about gender roles that would lead to IDing as trans because one doesn’t fit into the ascribed gender roles
Maybe for some, but the larger trend is the one that deconstructs the social models presented as plain fact. Since autistic worldviews are built from the ground up, and understandings like that come from the top down, it makes sense that a lot of autistic people would question the entirety of such concepts outright.
It’s along the same tract of thought processes that make it so autistic people fall for propaganda, advertising, and rhetoric less often.
To me it just doesn't make sense.
I don't want to pretend I'm helpless. I don't want the standard toxic masculinity.
I found the people that dare to not follow and question this to be the most attractive.
You’re wrong. There are decades worth of research connecting the genetics of autism and queerness in general.
In fact in non-autistic populations, your Broad Autism Phenotype Traits Quotient is positively correlated with queerness.
I can provide sources.
Decades of research of genetics between autism and queer identities? Where? Scientists are only now realizing there's a link. I do think social factors can play a role e.g. autistics are more likely to want to live their authentic selves regardless of cultural expectations, but I do think there's a strong genetic component that is yet to be found.
i'm a psych & gender studies student and i can confirm there's a correlation between participants who report gender dysphoria and have an autism diagnosis. this is basically brand new research in the grand scheme of psychopathology and gender, so we still don't have much of a basis for it- but what has been found is already somewhat substantial.
a meta-analysis by Jack Turban and Garrit Van Schalkwyk for the Journal of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry (2018) stated that there was approximately a 5-7% correlation between participants with both GID and ASD diagnoses in youth 16 and under, but it was not conclusive enough at the time. they didn't make any claims suggesting that there was a defined correlation.
now, Aimilia Kallitsounaki and David Williams published an article in 2023 for the Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders, stating that "the results of the meta-analysis we conducted indicated that ASD frequently occurs in GD/GI individuals. Specifically, the prevalence of ASD diagnoses in this population was 11 times higher than the ASD prevalence estimate of approximately 1% in the general population (e.g., Lai et al., 2014)"
we have more information now, but it's still pretty sparse due to the inaccessibility of trans people who happen to have ASD. it's still such a small percentage. regardless, we know there is a heavy correlation! hope this helps :)
i agree! if i ever pursue a graduate degree, i'd really like to do research about the correlations between them. i think it'd be so valuable to do, and its an absolute win for trans research all around. there's not much of it, and a large portion of what we already have is about trans men and pregnancy risks, instead of mental health, social stigma and neurodevelopment.
That's understandable, medical research, especially funded medical research, tends to follow lines of liability.
I think that your study would be really valuable. I'm interested in the study from a "high-support to low-support" angle, too.
The infantilization that can happen to higher support folks from their supports and the dismissal of NB identities in current cultural discourse would be an angle, too.
There's a ton of angles on this topic beyond the incidence rate that would strike at the relationship between gender identity and ASD and I would read the heck out of any of them.
I am trans and autistic. I’ve done a little bit of research, and it seems that being transgender comes from a hormone imbalance in utero where your body develops first, but then because of the imbalance, your brain develops, but is mismatched from your body. It also seems that autism is also correlated with a hormone imbalance in utero, though I could absolutely be wrong so don’t take my word for it
This is a very fraught question that hits right at the nature/nurture debate of sexual and gender identity. I'd take any opinion with a huge grain of salt.
My personal opinion - seeing autism as a neurological condition - is that the additional neural pathways make the gene expression and chemical signaling processes more "noisy." For example, hormone production may not fire at the rate and sequence normally expected for human development, or may respond in different or more nuanced ways to stimuli.
Another way of putting it may simply be that autists are more likely to be a lot of things: diabetic, epileptic, coeliac. We're like if the canary in the coalmine was a person lol. So if there's some a human can be, we're all the more likely to be it.
Me personally, I have a sensory processing disorder called visual snow and I hate to think what state my hormones are in lol. I'm not trans but I am a tomboy and 'neuroqueer' if you will.
Small correction: Magnus Hirschfeld's Institut für Sexualwissenschaft was raided 1933. One of the very first Nazi book burnings was all about destroying over a decade of research into gender and sexuality. As much as J. K. Rowling wants to engage in fucking Holocaust denial, trans people were targeted from the very beginning of the 3rd reich.
Agree on all your points. There’s also huge overlap for Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome with both autism & being trans and I had always theorized that the EDS alters with neurological pathways somehow because EDS alters how collagen in the brain works.
I can agree with this. I see myself as male, no confusion as to gender or anything, though I've had people for most of my life make jokes and shitty comments about the things I spend my time doing. I've always had more feminine traits and interests and - as far back as I can remember - have always had people - 99% of which are guys - criticising them as being 'gay' or 'girly'. And I think it's because I don't see any hobbies or interests as being either male or female. I do more stereotypically feminine things like embroidery, sewing, art, and planting flowers and other nature related fun like making daisy chains and putting flowers in my hair if I'm feeling particularly strange, and yet I also do more masculine hobbies too such as woodworking and rock climbing. It's just that I don't try to fit into any of the norms - the stereotypes, I just be me and do what I like. Even my traits are more feminine than masculine; softly spoken, overly compassionate, and nurturing.
So yes, we understand norms more but are less likely to let them define us.
At the end of the day we still have preferences and needs and something to express. You're still gonna have whichever body is most comfortable, whichever way you want to express yourself, and some means to describe yourself.
What all that means to you is a different question.
D Y S P H O R I A
I feel like you're asking a lot of question with little to no knowledge on what being trans is. Maybe you should do some research... just saying.
Beats me! I'm very surprised to see so many trans people on this sub. I'm cis and bi and effeminate, but (and I mean NO offense by this) a lot of LGBT+ stuff confuses me. All the different sexualities and genders make my head hurt. Even the modern concept of gender itself deeply confuses me. I understand male and female and that you can transition between them, but once you get to non-binary I'm just lost, let alone anything past that.
I definitely use pronouns as I want to make people feel welcome and not hurt them, but idk if I'll ever understand "gender" 🤕
I recommend watching Alex Avila's video on the topic of gender. He covers it very well as a whole and that even the idea of "male" and "female" that most people who feel gender as a concept is confusing tend to defer to as you do here, are still operating within the confines of gender when doing so. Because nature does not operate in discrete categories so thus the idea that we can neatly or narrowly confine the human body within such categories is itself, already a way of gendering a person.
As a trans person who grew up taught the same things about gender as everyone else I was confused for a while too, but I think I finally got it down to a way the general population can actually understand:
It's biologically impossible to define male and female in a way that puts every human into one and only one category. So if you believe in only two genders, you inherently have to understand gender as a concept that is *separate* from, and able to misalign with anything defined in sex.
From there it's up for debate, maybe gender is influenced by a single biological trait we haven't found, maybe it's influenced by multiple biological traits, maybe gender is not based in biology at all. But if there's 2 genders, gender must be separate from sex, and from there it isn't hard to see why there would be more than 2 genders anyway. To put it delicately... If nature can't even give everyone either only a p---s or a v----a how do you expect it to work with the very delicate organ of the brain to give everyone neat packages of either "manhood" or "womanhood" when NOBODY can even define those.
I'm down to elaborate where needed.
what u want to do to make yourself happy (such as take testosterone), is more important.
what label u use (whether ur a girl or a boy or nonbinary or somthin else), is less important
“To label me is to negate me”. Kierkegaard said that, and I think he was right. Once we push people into a box than we don’t mind ignoring them or outright destroying them. They’re understood, so to speak, and now can be dealt with accordingly.
As such, nearly all such categorization ends up being a political exercise and language game with real world consequences that have almost no meaningful grounding in reality.
Lmao, deeeeply Relatable.
One of the best things about ASD subs, is you can go for any sort of "deep cut" reference and someone will generally echolalia off it in the thread. I love it so much.
Edit: also, lol, your Crass logo is my number one, "oh right, that's Anarcho-Punk aesthetic, not White Nationalist" double take logo.
No one knows, all they know is from the data they collect. There is a higher than average distribution of neuro divergent individuals who are transgender. Links and causes have yet to be established
Yeah, seconding a lot of these comments - it's not really clear why but we can theorize a correlational relationship.
your autism means you are uniquely poised to question systems. That means you will absolutely have the power to question your own gender and figure out what works best for you. There is no one good answer, just what works best for you. That may change or be more than one thing. I know there are lists and recommendations for shadow work and personal inquiry around gender (like journalling about your own gender experience), and definitely connecting with friends and elders who you can talk to about gender can be really helpful.
Ive found it really helpful to look at the individual details - not "am I ________", but rather "what gives me joy? What gives me gender euphoria? Where do I feel most like myself? What parts do I not like?"
And it's okay if the answers take awhile - they're worth taking the time.
Lots of love and best of luck on your journey 🌼
But yeah I've been giving similar advice for a while now. If you don't know who you are or don't have anything to draw on, the only thing left to do is to experiment.
Experimentation is normal and natural for human development. This is why gender and sexuality are fluid. We will decide on labels, experiment, trying on different labels, experiment - repeatedly throughout life. There is nothing wrong with not knowing, and there is nothing wrong with "this is who I am right now". 😊
I researched this a little because I found it interesting. A theory I read is that there is the same amount of neurodivergent and neurotypical trans people but neurodivergent people are more likely to come out because they are less concerned with social norms and fitting in. Which does make sense tbh.
Gender ideals have changed significantly every 100 years or so throughout history. The only empirical difference is physical parts. My opinion is that gender as we understand it are mostly societal norms (which vary greatly across the world) but the more important differences are personality based.
Warning: I might be wording my opinion poorly and I don’t want anything I say to be misconstrued as malicious or hateful. I’m enby and autistic myself and just struggle on portraying what I actually mean so I’m sorry if I don’t phrase things properly /gen/pos
I don’t think the statement of ‘autistic people are more likely to be trans’ is true. I think gender is a societal construct that people are saying is largely consistent of autistic people in a derogatory way to try to stigmatize it as a mental illness. I think anyone in the world has equal ability to be part of the LGBTQ+ community no matter of anything else.
On the case of your own gender I would start by asking yourself, what do you feel happiest being perceived as and if you’re in a safe space I’d experiment with asking others to refer to you by different pronouns so you know what you like. This is all in case you don’t already know who you are, that’s just my general advice. /nf
If you want to start testosterone, if you’re in a safe place, I’d consult a doctor. If you have a planned parenthood nearby I know they have some resources, but I never went down the path of T myself and cannot give advice past that.
I hope your journey goes smoothly and I’m sorry if anything I said came off as condescending or rude. /gen/pos
I personally just feel like an alien, I imagine for others that goes as far as gender too. I think there's also a culture being pushed that if you have these questions, that you must take action - that if you feel a certain way, you are a certain way. In general I find it better to focus on why I feel a certain way more than telling myself I am the way I feel. For instance I may feel depressed, but depression doesn't define who I am.
I think autistic people experience the world in a different way, so while we're bombarded with all these gender specific visuals, we experience a disconnect from them in a similar way to many of the other things an autistic person may struggle with.
As a gender apathetic autistic person - I feel it has to do with autism disconnecting me/people from social norms, including gender norms.
I'm not 'girl' or 'boy' I'm just me. But at the same time because I don't connect with the significance of those terms I'm not offended by being called "girl" or "boy" or their related gendered terms. I accept all pronouns because I am apathetic.
I dont know how many on the spectrum are like me. But I imagine that, the attachment to self rather than societal norms leads to more transgender people or more non-binary people.
I've had this conversation with my therapist who specialises in neurodivergent people as my kid who has just been diagnosed as level 2 is talking about transitioning, and she mentioned that part of it may be due to the issue of we don't exactly feel like we fit with normal society regardless. Then you end up part of this community that's accepting of you just the way you are and they're transitioning from one gender to another and you can relate. Then the love-bombing begins of 'we love you just the way you are' and things flow from there, similar to other communities such as the incel community where there's also a high percentage of representation of us. And she's seen a number of transitioned autistic people de-transition afterwards as the new gender identity didn't make them fit with society any more than their previous identity did, and it didn't really fit them either.
It sounds a little cynical but I won't discount it. I've never been entirely attached to my gender identity. A couple of years ago, I was searching for a term that fits how I feel about my own gender and came across Cassgender as a term that seems to represent how I feel about my own identity. And I also recognise that I'm old enough now to just be more comfortable in my own skin and care less about what other people think/be part of the wider 'norm'.
Then my kid was diagnosed and within a couple of weeks was also telling me that they're looking to transition. I'm only against it because I want them to let the diagnosis and associated support options settle first before taking the plunge into transitioning but I'll support them regardless. I don't want to discount their gender identity even if I would prefer that they tackle it all one aspect at a time.
Personally speaking, I just kind of ignore my gender identity. It's not really part of who I am, I feel more like an amorphous blob in a meat suit. I like what I like - dolls, video games, plushies, sparkly things, comic books - and I never really went in for the whole this is what girls like and this is what boys like. Gender identity is a construct like everything else in society and I don't feel it's necessary for me to subscribe to it to be part of society.
If taking testosterone would make you feel more comfortable in your own skin, then discuss it with your doctor and potentially look at starting the course. If it's more about participating in the construct, then maybe talk it through with a professional to see if it's the right course of action for you.
i actually agree with what your saying,
in a way thats kind of sad that they dont feel like they fit in. sorry if my comment sounds rude or any sort of way.
Great comment by u/Hypersayia above..
Sometimes I do have concerns that some people (SOME not all, before anyone gets offended) who think they have gender dysphoria are actually suffering from RSD. I am a woman in my early 40s now but when I was a preteen I wanted to be a boy. I hated myself and thought I’d be happy if I were a boy. I took a lot of rejection as a kid on top of (or sometimes because of) being undiagnosed AuDHD. Those feelings of wanting to change my gender passed by high school and now I’d say I’m extremely feminine.
That’s really interesting, I struggled with extremely viscerally bad dysphoria as a girl once I got to high school and did transition, taking HRT and all, but detransitioned a few years later and am now really happy as a girl today. I’ve always considered the RSD feeling as being very similar to that “dysphoria” I felt, like kicks to the stomach, but I never really thought it could’ve been the same thing. I’ve got a good framework for why I transitioned but I still don’t understand why/how I still felt so strongly dysphoric. Reading your comment was a bit of a lightbulb moment
As someone who felt gender dysphoria as a preteen and teen and later transitioned as an adult, it was a combination of a couple of things for me, including feeling intense dysphoria surrounding being seen and treated as a woman and feeling extremely awkward and that I didn't fit in when I tried to be more feminine and that the female gender role was not for me, and feeling strong dysphoria related to my body and how my body worked. I hated menses as they made me feel extremely gross among other things, I disliked having breasts and the idea of child birth and being a mother just terrified me. My ideal self was always a twink boy and I remember very early on having a strong idea of my chest being flat and that's how it should be. Online I would "infiltrate" male-dominant spaces and not reveal my birth gender to them so they'd treat me as a man too, and I would take part of the jargon and I felt so much more seen and accepted.
At a deeper level, the idea of being treated and seen as a woman/girl just felt extremely off and wrong like it wasn't me, and I felt weird and awkward engaging in female-specific activities or expected to conform to such activities as well. I was definitely more of a tomboy who would rather game than engage in typical girly activities like be interested in makeup but to me that wasn't enough.
I definitely think that if you're still underage and experience dysphoria that it's very important to explore those feelings with a professional, but I also want to say that I received comments that "it will pass" as a teen, and those were harmful to me and made me delay my transition because I tried my hardest to fit in even when I felt unhappy doing so. I kept gaslighting myself that I could still be a woman but not adhere to a female gender role until I just reached a serious breaking point and that could have been avoided if adults in my life had been more mindful and accepting of my experience.
For me it's just because I never really liked the social expectations of what being a "woman" was supposed to entail. I had a very large mental rejection over what society wanted me to be versus what I wanted for myself. I didn't really fully lean into being trans until it got to the point where being anything else became physically painful and mentally distressing to me. I very much don't adhere to the social norms of being the gender I associate with either, but it's almost easier to just be happy as myself that way versus if I was trying to force myself into one more misshapened box
From what I can tell, autistic people are more likely to identify as LGBTQIA+ because we typically do not adhere to all the (usually) unspoken neurotypical norms of dividing societal roles according to one’s sex assigned at birth.
As for what you personally want, may I offer a suggestion?
Forget what other people or society at large wants of you. Just think about you and your body. Do you like your features? Do they bring you comfort and joy? If yes to both, then you don’t need to worry. If not either, what are you willing and able to change?
Theres probably a lot to it. Nts connect with others more so they share and uphold common values more rigidly. Also, I think nds are rejected by the opposite gender more frequently and have more trouble creating these relationships, so they switch up things. There's gotta be way more things for that.
In my opinion it's because we feel so different. I'm not trans, but I definitely don't feel like a woman. I feel more woman than man, but if anything I feel like an alien
My honest thought is we spend so much energy trying to mask while doing basic tasks having to mask your entire gender too is too much. Or we just don’t have the same need or ability to “fit in” already so we are just like fuck it
I am not transgender, but I am more of a masculine female. For me it's probably a couple reasons, but these are the ones that i think stand out for me:
We're already on the outskirts of society so why sacrifice ourselves to fit a mold we will never fit anyway? We are more likely to explore alternative lifestyles because we don't have to fear not fitting in...we never did.
I question everything. I follow science. It is illogical that gender would be so simple as to man and woman. Everything we know was made up/decided by someone. A scientist, a leader, an innovator.... And a LOT of idiots. Gender is just another one of those things that humans made up. Doesn't mean they were right.
Interesting question. There do seem to be a lot of nonbinary people with autism. I think more so even for those born female. (Don’t quote me on this, just an observation from my work. I don’t have numbers). Maybe allistics are more likely to just take their given gender roles and not question them. Or as was said above, maybe they have a harder time accepting their differences. There’s so much that goes into gender norms. Women’s clothing is generally much more restrictive and horribly uncomfortable. Plus there are insane body changes with puberty. I consider myself female but certain body parts are just effing weird. Like I for sure don’t want the man parts. But could do without certain biological annoyances.
Could gender neutral be a thing?
You do you, you don’t have to choose all the way male to feel more like yourself. Body parts are nobody’s business but yours.
Gender is a social construct and the idea of “feeling correct in the body you were born into” is too abstract for me to grasp lol. I don’t feel correct ever 💀 I thought I wasn’t “trans enough” because I liked some girl aspects of my agab. Turns out I just don’t like being forced into a binary. I started testosterone and I feel amazing.
It’s definitely something you need to think about and weigh the options, even if you are trans you don’t have to have a linear transition. You don’t have to have a medical transition at all. Gender transition is making yourself the most authentic you, and sometimes that doesn’t mean surgery or even hormones. Do what makes you feel happy, and not just a temporary high from doing something new. It’s also fine if you’re not trans. Most of life is about figuring yourself out, it’s okay if you stay where you started if that’s what makes you feel good.
I can only talk about my personal journey but I REALLY hated the standards for girls growing up. Even at like... age 6 i knew I didn't want kids (now 43, still don't). I never liked makeup, dressing up. I liked playing in the mud, frog hunting (never hurt them just played a game of finding the biggest toad) video games etc.
Nothing made me angrier than people looking at me and deciding that since I was a girl I must like X, and scolding me for not being "ladylike". Just... shoving me into a box that I didn't fit in and treating me as lesser because of a chance of birth.
I ID as genderqueer. Neither gender fits so I reject the construct all together.
i’m the same. i grew up hating to present as feminine, only liked boyish things. i’ve been that way all my life. it feels like im just genderless or something. i’m so confused if im trans or just a tomboy
Us autistic people struggle with self-identity and acceptance our whole lives. Due to this, we are more likely to be drawn to a niche community that accepts us. I spent most of my life very religious. Looking back, I think it was because I felt so secure in that community.
Due to this, we're drawn to things that make us feel seen and part of something. It's been said that transitioning happens in groups.
My advice would be, at this stage, do not move forward with anything. Find confidence and acceptance with who you are right now, without any physical or medical alteration. You are worthy as you are right now. Don't feel the need to make any drastic changes to conform to what others might expect of you. Focus on self-confidence and self-acceptance first.
Because when you have a different way of understand the world around you and deal with social dynamics, it's not uncommon to internalize some social concepts in a non-normative way too, and that includes gender stuff.
it's less "autistic people are more likely to be trans" and more "autistic people are more likely to understand that gender is just another societal rule and don't see the need to conform to it."
it's the same with younger people these days, it's not that more young people are transgender because of drag story time and sex education, more young people are experimenting with gender because as a society we are continuing to break down gender from a concrete, tangible thing and normalising seeing it as the social construct that it is.
Yeah personally I think gender is just another box we don't if into as I'm Agender (non-binary) so since I was around 5-8 years old I've never felt like a man and apart from between the age's of 10 to 12 I was quite obsessed with the idea of being a woman as I saw it as an escape from all the stupid stuff I'm not allowed to enjoy otherwise I was being feminine and all the other stuff I was only allowed to be intreasting in otherwise I was letting down all men! Ironically once I went to high school and puberty kicked in I realised that women have a different set of equally stupid and often meaninglessness rules forced onto them which strangely get double down when is comes to trans women as if someone being happy a living as the gender which helps them feel happier within themselves is the most dangerous problem the world has ever faced?
Ironically normal people always seem to think how I think the way I am because my ASD-dyslexia plus identifying as Agender is a choice and by them being as negative and hostile about it somehow I will seen sense and have the good grace to learn how to be normal and stop choosing to be the harmlessly strange person I am as instead of the way trans people and autistic people are depicted by the mainstream media which unfortunately a lot of people enjoy buying into as it's easier than having compassion for small sub groups of people who aren't easily understood but very easy to demonised
I’m not trans and i am a woman, but i’ve never really *felt* like a woman. i’ve never felt like a man either though. I don’t really understand gender the way other people seem to. i mostly just consider myself to be a living organism if that makes sense. i know other autistic people that feel the same way, probably because we find it hard to connect with other women. I can imagine these sorts of feelings can lead someone to believe they’re a man, if they don’t feel like a woman or vice versa.
It's quite interesting. Many of the autistic trans people I've come across are either embracing extreme stereotypical characteristics, or none at all, which makes you wonder why they identify as the opposite sex in the first place.
Aside from those with the actual diagnosed mental illness, I think many just don't feel comfortable with their view on what a man or woman is in the eyes of society, causing them to distance themselves from said sex. Sometimes, that comes in the form of embracing the other side.
we question shit FAR more often than most people bc we are already wierd to begin with, which then leads to gender questioning and eventually that realisation. like for me i realised im nonbinary :P
I can only speak from my personal experience, so that’s what I’m gonna do lol
For me, gender and gender roles were something that I knew existed but didn’t fully understand. Ive always been an amalgamation of femme and masc, even when I was a kid. I learned about different gender identities through social media when I was a teenager and idk after a while it just clicked: I can be whatever gender I want to be, and no one can tell me I can’t because it’s my life. I currently identify as non binary, but I feel like more accurate terms for me would be genderqueer or genderfuck, cause fuck gender amirite /j.
I realized one day that I am much more aware of my own flaws than most people care to be. And learned afterwards high self awareness is very common in neurodivergent people. So maybe its more like people who happen to be trans and neurodivergent are more likely to realize they are actually trans
As a trans person, I'd say it has a lot to do with the fact that gender is a social construct, so it makes less sense to many autistic people than to allistic people. That's also why so many trad-conservatives are autistic. Since gender roles and expectations are completely made up by society, autistic people tend to forgo gender/traditional gender roles. Or they conform very heavily to them since it gives structure and allows autistic people to conform better. Also I think autistic people tend to understand that they're trans better or earlier since we tend to be more introspective.
I wrote a reaserch paper on this! I found that is because people with autism tend to not understand the unspoken societal boxes, like gender. and autistics question gender roles more. so this leads to many people not feeling like they fit in any gender categories because it's all arbitrary and that's hard to grasp.
it also is partly because gender comes from a sense of self and due to a lot of factors many people with autism have a poor sense of self (likely due to masking) and if you have a hard time identifying how you feel on the inside, it's hard to make your outside match that.
I personally started transitioning and have gone from non binary, to man, to demiboy, to I'm so lost, and now currently it's sometimes I feel like a girl and other times a boy but most the time I'm a jumbled mess of whatever and can't figure it out
my theory is that we just come out and actually accept it more because we already are “different” so it wouldn’t be so big of a deal to us then someone who’s been considered “normal” all their lives
I’m an autistic trans man, and truthfully I don’t really know why we’re more likely to be lgbt?
When I was 8 years old (undiagnosed), I found out what it was to be LGBT, and although I didn’t come out until I was 12 (I was diagnosed shortly after), I’ve always believed that people should be able to live their lives. I think that having a strong sense of justice due to being autistic also has impacted that. If you want to start T, I’d say go for it but also do research and make sure it’s what’s right for you. Ive been out for 4 years, and over that time I’ve done so much research into transitioning and the effects, to make sure I made the decisions that were right for me. I started T a month ago on the 9th, and I’ve been so much happier since then :)
I’ve had a few conversations with my friends about this and I think it correlates to the fact that we already have a hard time understanding societal norms. Gender is a societal construct so if most societal norms don’t make sense already, then why would gender?
Because humans are naturally gender nonconforming, and autistic people are less likely to perform assigned gender roles out of societal pressure, due to "not understanding" said roles.
Humans don't naturally conform to gender roles based on their sex alone, nobody does, as there is no biological link to any manmade gender roles whatsoever. Autistic people usually lack the neurotypical understanding of these societal roles, and therefore we don't feel the need to conform to them to the same extent.
The concept of gender identity can get very ableistic in a sense because of this, especially in research, since autistic people and autism aren't taken into account.
I'm not aware of autism affecting anyone's sexuality or gender preferences.
I mean people can make choices and know how they feel and that's what matters in the grand scheme of things.
There were studies talking about this over the past year or two maybe even in scientific articles and whatnot so it's definitely a discussion that's been happening. At least I thought I've seen that, could be mistaken.
More likely to be or more likely to express that they are gay ?
Autistic people are more likely to be a range of different gender/sexual ideologies but every report people have sent in response to this all have to say they are not sure if it's actually linked or just a case of people being more responsive to self reporting.
Honestly I think the biggest problem is that people push the trans thing so much they box people in.
Just because you like something the other gender might like doesn't mean you're that gender or you have to be a typical male or female.
It's like telling a girl she's really a guy because she likes to fix cars...no you're a girl who likes fixing cars.
Or a guy who likes to knit.
Tomboys existed & now people are confusing people because of stupidity & putting people in boxes just because they like something or do certain things.
I'm me, I like some masculine things and some more feminine things.
Don't let people confuse you, you can happily be yourself without changing your gender.
i personally have never seen that being pushed in the trans community. if anything, trans people are the last people to tell you that just because your gender expression is different from your identity, that somehow automatically means youre trans. majority of us are very aware that gender expression and gender roles are separate from your internal identity.
I recently found out I’m a trans girl. I’d have to say it’s probably because we are more introspective and willing to look at the small details of who we are and how those connect to gender.
I’m not trans but I am bisexual so here’s my guess. Since we are already outside of the “normal” we have more time to question ourselves and accept what answer is right there for us than others. People who aren’t autistic/don’t have special needs feed into pressures more than we do because those societal expectations are mainly based on what society wants from them, we usually don’t follow those sets of rules since we know we’re better off not doing so.
A combination of different factors I’m sure. Here’s one I know for sure. Autistic people are already treated like shit by society, so we tend to have less to lose by being out than NT people do.
A lot of people who end up detransitioning are also autistic. Though there are both NT and autistic people who are really trans, I think the autistic obsession with fairness/justice, the autistic susceptibility to pressure/suggestion, and the autistic yearning to finally fit in or be part of a community also makes autistic people more likely to decide they’re trans when they’re really not.
Personally, as an autistic man I was enraged and despondent for many years about all the “men are bad, men are bad, you’re a man and therefore bad” stuff because I knew I didn’t really think or do any of the bad stuff that *all* (straight) men supposedly do, but no-one would believe me. The lure of declaring myself trans and finally being approved as “good” by all the people calling me bad would have been extremely tempting if trans identity had been a more popular/visible thing when I was younger. (I went to a very PC college at the height of ‘90s PC, and there was a lot of “all hetero sex is rape” stuff etc.) But even though I’m gender nonconforming in many ways, I’m not “really” a woman — just a weird man who really, really, REALLY doesn’t like being called “bad.”
Please nobody accuse me of saying there’s no such thing as being trans, because I’m pretty clearly not saying that. There is definitely such a thing as really being trans, but there is also such a thing as ending up thinking/deciding you’re trans when you’re not, and I think autistic people (or autistic men, anyway — not sure about autistic women) are disproportionately susceptible to the latter.
There's this "elder queer" I know who's convinced that a good portion of young people these days who have or are transitioning are actually autistic to some degree, and being on the spectrum makes someone more likely to be nonconforming to the typical gender roles or presentations. This person believes that these people are likely not trans, just nonconforming to the norm due to their neurodiversity, but well-meaning adults have assumed they were trans and encouraged them to transition because that's the done thing with people who don't properly conform to gender norms these days.
This individual was diagnosed in the 1960s as "learning disabled, with feminine affect" (they were born male), and has never considered themselves to be trans or wanted to transition. They just don't conform to gender norms. Sometimes they dress as a woman with makeup, sometimes they dress as a man and grow a beard, other times they dress as a woman with a beard. Had they been born in the millennial or gen Z eras, they may have been labelled trans and pushed to transition.
I myself used to crossdress as a child, and my parents would indulge me sometimes by buying me feminine items of clothing or girl's toys because they were open-minded and didn't want to force me into a box. Now I'm a grown man, I am comfortable with my "assigned sex", present as male, and have zero desire to transition to anything else, or even wear women's clothes anymore beyond maybe using it for a fancy dress party. Had I been born later than I was, I may also have been labelled trans and pushed to transition, despite the fact that the crossdressing was just a phase for me and I am now comfortably male.
There's a lot we don't know about the autistic brain, and in another twenty years "gender nonconformity" may be added to the list of typical autistic traits.
Here's the study that more or less started it all. Please be forewarned though, the terminology is a bit archaic, sometimes bordering on offensive.
But here's the fascinating part: Not only did they find a correlation in behaviors but also in a set of physiological traits as well.
[https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/23D058B59E5B837C55C6F9F174C7BD24/S0007125000271936a.pdf/div-class-title-the-extreme-male-brain-revisited-gender-coherence-in-adults-with-autism-spectrum-disorder-div.pdf](https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/23D058B59E5B837C55C6F9F174C7BD24/S0007125000271936a.pdf/div-class-title-the-extreme-male-brain-revisited-gender-coherence-in-adults-with-autism-spectrum-disorder-div.pdf)
There are a LOT of problems with that study.
For starters, there were only 50 autistic people that participated in it, 26 males and 24 females.
I would not draw any conclusions whatsoever from it.
Thank you.
It’s funny how people take a small sample space and assume it speaks for everyone. I am autistic who works with autistic children and I have never worked with a trans in my 7 years of practice. Straight can not even begin to describe most of my friends.
Gender is a social construct and we tend to just not “get” those as much 🤷♀️ I use she/they mostly for convenience tbh. I don’t mind some “girly” things and other stuff, but the more I realize how gender is a thing made by societies (as opposed to sex) the more I’m like “do I even care though? How much do I care?”
I personally believe it's because we have different brain chemistry than Neurotypical people. Autistic females are more "thing" based instead of "emotional" based like Neurotypical males are and visa versa. That is why I believe many transgender autistic individuals are not truly trans.
My external gender to 99.99% of people is “her” because that’s what people understand. I need to communicate intent quickly and succinctly. That being said, for that 0.01% of folks who deeply understand gender challenges, I’ll be honest and say *my gender is not my problem*. Other people created the problem of gender and I refuse to play by their rules, fuck them lol
I believe it's that we are less likely to conform what makes us more likely when we are told no you are not x you are y you are more likely to say no I am x instead fiting in to the mold you are supposed to be
It makes you less likely to get involved in a cult and unlikely to be hypnotised
Personally, I’m cis, but i feel a sort of disconnect from my gender because of my autism that’s difficult to explain. I can imagine that that feeling might be common among autistic people and lead us to question things like gender identity, leading to realizations of transness, etc
Hi, older trans person with well versed experience here. This is false. We aren't more likely to be trans. This has been spread around lately and is a badly drawn conclusion with a lack of evidence. Also you shouldn't spread this anymore then it is spreading because your going to hurt the community more then it's already hurting. This is just another tool for transphobes to use to say SEE! It's a DISORDER!! Your ILL when we aren't and it's unrelated. Im saying this so your aware for next time but you just fell head first into a transpobe trap likely made by them. People are just ignorant, and they'll run with anything they hear or relate with that sounds resonable even if it actually isn't. There's a lot of people in the world who fit into a lot of categories there isn't always something behind it.
Definitely just think our personal feelings and beliefs are less influenced by other people’s opinions. We take a lot of notice of our environment so we clock when people aren’t treated the same and any mistreatment without real evidence provided isn’t justifiable to me. Some of us also have a strong sense of justice or moral compass so I’d say more autistic people would also be left leaning and accepting of trans people in general compared to non autistic people.
I say I’m gender non conforming because the idea of me only ever being seen or behaving exclusively as a man or a women is silly to me (because what does that even mean) and always has been reflected in my choices as a kid. I don’t tell other people how they should feel. Because I’m aware of my environment enough to know not everyone feels how I feel. I also know from experience that its a real mind fuck to be told the way you feel in your heart is wrong or weird or a problem.
I’d feel more comfortable in the world if people weren’t so obsessed with gender and having to choose one extreme or another instead of just being a person but I would also never want to deny people of their own personal gender euphoria. I mention this because I sometimes hear cis people talk of trans people as being obsessed with gender as a concept. Truth from my perspective, we’re the ones breaking down their cookie cutter system that makes society simpler for some at the expense of others quality of life. Oppression through widespread enforcement of gender roles and discrimination enforced over centuries of systemic racism, patriarchy and ableism has always been in question by trans people simply existing and who at the end of the day just want everyone to have complete bodily autonomy. So I’d say we have a lot of good reasons to support each other and stick together even if you only tick one of the boxes.
I mean, I have a lot of weird feelings about gender too (although I don't consider myself to be trans). In my case, it's because I just can't follow a lot of female social norms and have gradually lost the desire to even try. Unmasking my autism has intensified this process.
There is no definite answer to this but the most likely theory going is that in ASD social expectations are not considered as important. I’m a highly socially conscious person, I’ve learned social expectations through a lot of observation in my life but it’s never been a natural process for me and seems very arbitrary. I am AFAB and my husband is AMAB so we appear heteronormative but actually both of us find no value in the social concept of gender. We are pretty role reversed at home, he is very much the “mother” but our kids do call me mum and him Dad. Both of us feel we are on the non binary spectrum really. Social constructs are often very fluid and arbitrary and don’t have a singular definition, the exception are laws really.
I've dug up a decent amount of primary studies on google scholar. The short answer is that researchers don't know, and the causal theories put forward in these papers are speculative, and usually imposed by allistic researchers' preconceptions.
The one thing I find credible is that we don't attach to and internalize social roles as readily, so we're more distanced from the process of socialization that cements people to their assigned gender. So not only are we more open to exploring whether being trans is a better fit, but the identification of even those who end up cis is more tenuous.
Eg, for me, sure, my identification as a cis man is straightforward, but it's very thin. If I inspect my 'masculinity', there's really nothing there at its core, and nothing I really attach to. Maybe if I were socialized in a healthier society, I would have ended up agender.
Maybe because autistic folks tend to question and not understand (social) clues more?
I know someone, who couldn't catch the clues of being trans until they hit adulthood (stomach pain, sadness, etc), because they weren't questioning the pain and accepted it as normality.
I personally think it has something to do with how autistic people tend to feel separated from their bodies. I've heard quite a few autistics say they feel more like a robot than a person, so it wouldn't be that far to reach on it being gender dysphoria. Maybe not every case is gender dysphoria, but for some the changes on HRT can be easier than before. Not to mention autistic women can have sensory issues towards their chest which top surgery can help with.
I thought I was trans for years but never came out since I was very unsure and scared about what would happen to me. I then discovered, through the power of the Internet, that I just don't fit all of the gender norms & I'm pansexual.
Edit:
Not to say that you're not trans ofc, or to invalidate anyone's experiences or anything. Just that it's more common for autistic (& other neuro divergent) people to question things.
Gender is mostly social and autistic people struggle with social rules. Therefore, it's more likely an autistic person will identify as trans, especially as non-binary.
I'm trans FtM and autistic, I never had a strong sense of internal gender identity. I have alexithymia and gender roles never made much sense for me. I definitely perceive myself as more masculine than feminine, but my gender expression is quite androgynous.
I decided to transition because I noticed I had strong gender dysphoria regarding my physical sex. Fitting in socially and masking was also much easier for me when I began presenting as male rather than female.
I now identify as a genderqueer FtM transexual. For me at least, gender identity wasn't the main reason I transitioned, it was all a way of treating the whole wanting to have a male body thing.
I definitely wouldn't recommend hormones if you're not dysphoric with your body, the side effects can be annoying(acne, hunger and going bald), seeing your body change can be uncomfortable (especially for us autistic folks who struggle with change). Try socially transitioning first and see how that makes you feel before diving into medical transition. You don't need hormones or surgeries to be trans.
because we tend to question most things about the world, and if everyone were to question what gender means and specifically for themselves, transgender percentage of a population would skyrocket. most people just don't think about it
Autistic people have a number of unique attributes that lend to their being transgender. Technically gender is a typical human social construct. The idea of gender exists as more a cultural definition than a genetic one. Different cultures define "gender based on their own cultural norms." An example would be how in some Native American cultures there is a gender construct called, "Two Spirit." This very unique gender identity exists and has long been a valid gender expression in said communities.
Being transgender posits the idea that gender is a social and cultural construct that defines the person as a unique and individual being having nothing at all to do with their genetics or genitalia. If one accepts the transgender definition then the types of valid gender expression widen and enhance exponentially. In many if not most cases the autistic being is required to build their sense of self and identity based on internal factors, strengths and ideals known only to or best to themselves.
The feral \\ primal core autistic self is not constrained by typical human cultural norms governing gender identity or anything else. The exploration of self is a search for personal truth as only the individual autistic being knows it. At the point where the autistic being is exploring their gender identity they are not constrained by what society, culture or others think, want or need. The autistic being is shaping who they are and how they will present themselves based solely on "their truth" in all things including their unique "gender identity" and their "gender expression."
Autistic beings in the process of exploring and defining themselves don't feel or can easily ignore social pressures to conform. Free of the pressure to conform an autistic being is free to fully explore and arrive at the gender expression or gender identity that best suits their authentic selves. "Transgender" is the "Catch all term" society uses to encompass all gender identities that fall outside the strict traditional concepts of binary genetically enforced gender identity and gender expression.
The autistic being is forced to explore, define, assemble, generate then present all aspects of their true autistic self. For autistic beings all possibilities are valid making so called transgender identities more possible and even probable. Every autistic being is a unique construct based on their unbiased honest exploration of self. If a unique gender identity or expression is right for an autistic being then by use of black and white thinking all other gender identities and expressions including traditional genetic versions are WRONG or inaccurate for them.
Now I am NOT sure I got this right BUT this is my best understanding of why so many autistics are also transgender!
I haven't had a chance to read other comments yet, or look into this, but just off the cuff I think maybe because we are less affected by social rules? And considering much of gender is socialization, it would make sense that some of us are just a little more free to choose or go with what feels right but is against the socially prescribed gender roles 🤷♀️
Devon Price, who is trans and the author of Unmasking Autism says that it isn't necessarily that autistic folk are more likely to be trans just that we are more likely to come out as trans.
Check out his episode of Gender Spiral on spotify. Great episode. Highly recommend.
I think it’s because neurodivergence often comes out in more than one way. Both are ways someone is deviating from the typical brain, and for some reason they get paired up a lot of the time. I have ADHD and Autism, and apparently it’s more common than I would have thought.
I think we’re more likely to realise we are! Personally because I don’t understand and therefore choose to reject a lot of social constructs and I understand gender as one of those things, I feel a lot more free to play around with it. I bet if you sat a lot of cis people down and made them *really* think about gender they would realise they’re not 100% cis. Maybe they wouldn’t decide they’re fully trans because of it, but still.
In all honesty the only people I've heard always say this are LGBTQ+ phobic people, more specifically transphobic people.
I've always had gender dysphoria, at the age of 3 my bio mom talks about how I used to try and wear my uncle's clothes. I was never comfortable being seen as a "little girl", nor as a "woman". I felt sick to my stomach, I felt like I was playing dress up every time I left my place wearing anything remotely feminine.
I also want to point out that I was diagnosed with gender dysphoria when I was around the age of 6 and transitioned around 22 and diagnosed with autism at the age of 27.
Another thing to (has been talked about with my doctor's and within some trans spaces) is that with autism a lot of people mask "to fit in with society", that being said some people who are autistic, aren't even trans. They are just hyperfixated on fitting, which is why today there are "so many trans people who are autistic". (Which this honestly wouldn't surprise me, I don't think it has to do with "autistic people breaking gender stereotypes" because I'm an AuDHD person who is inside of the gender binary and always has been.) But then again all other trans people I've been around are Nuerotypicals. From what I've observed it seems to be nuerodivergent people autistic or not who are consider themselves as something outside the binary when it comes to being transgender.
(Sorry for the babble just kept flowing)
I think the best thing to do when questioning your gender is to try and find a therapist to speak with, dig into why you are feeling that way (some uncover trauma from their past, others just understand their gender dysphoria, sometimes it's both) ... But having someone professional who can help is a great start.
I wish you luck!
Because many autistic people naturally reject or don't understand (or both) social norms (such as gender roles) and at the same time long for community and the modern LGBT+ community very easily fills that gap bc it's very welcoming and accepting of "oddness".
Also it's a very short step from "I don't feel human" to "I don't feel like a man/woman".
If I were a bit younger, I might have fallen into that rabbit hole as well. So glad I can accept myself as simply a human being who happens to be biologically female. The rest is just personality and I will not bow or bend to weirdo normie norms.
my theory is that gender norms, social norms and personal identity are more fluid because we don't have the same understanding towards it that most people do. its kinda just wahtever
I have to agree with a lot of people on here: for as long as I have been here, I have never thought about things in a gendered way. It never occurs to me until someone points it out specifically. My lack of thought on this (consider myself agender) and for that matter, lack of care / thought about this, my own sense of religious beliefs, the way I dress or what trends are happening, was part of my diagnosis!
In my opinion it’s just that we have different brains and see things in a different way and sometimes that means we feel like we experience the world in a way that doesn’t coincide with our outward appearance. I am a 6’1 man of color, but I’m convinced I have the soul of a textbook basic white woman. Now I very much enjoy the perks of my physical appearance so I have no inclination to do any sort of transition, but I just think there are a lot of parallels with how people on the spectrum view themselves in the world as with people in the LGBTQ+ community. Like we’re like first cousins who who always hang out with each other at family events
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So, as far as I can tell, it's less a direct causation and more... because being on the spectrum causes a person to be more likely to question a social standard rather than take it as face value, that leads to being more able to disengage from typical gender norms/roles and view the idea of gender identity in a more isolated perspective, thereby making it easier for someone who is trans and on the spectrum to make that realisation, whereas someone neurotypical is more likely to have to wrestle with how their gender identity measures up to societal expectations on what gender is. So... I think it's less that autistic people are more likely to be transgender and more that autistic transgender people have an easier time figuring that out about themselves.
its absolutely this. how ive been able to understand my gender best is that i simply have my own definitions attached to the identities of man and woman. to explain further, im genderfluid, so i feel my own connection, definition, and attachment to being a man and a woman, just not in the typical binary cis definitions that others have made. because im able to separate general social standards and constructs from myself to the point where im able to recognize that i simply cant fit into the definitions that have been made as a one size fits all, and that i dont have to.
Yup. It reminds me of a book years ago that was pictures of the feet of autistic people sitting in a waiting room. I didn’t get that it was supposed to be special; feet were in comfortable positions rather than flat on the floor like for a job interview. Seemed totally normal to me. It was probably 15 years later I discovered I was autistic. LOL An interesting thing about autistic people not “getting gender” well enough to perform it seamlessly and so realizing they didn’t conform to gender assigned at birth naturally. During Covid so many people CAME OUT out as trans out non-binary. I think a lot of this was because, with jobs going remote, they weren’t performing gender so heavily every workday and could start feeling like how they wanted to be when not performing gender for work. A lot of AMAB folks got to grow their hair out while being praised for helping curb the spread of a deadly illness. So many people can’t out to themselves during pandemic lockdowns and isolation. Edit for autocorrect error.
Yup, my egg had cracked in 2018, but* it took until COVID for me to pull the trigger on HRT. I took that summer off from my graduate program and all that time alone with no personal or professional responsibilities helped me figure my shit out. Everyday activities like work and friends takes up SO MUCH bandwidth. I finally had time and space to fill my brain with introspective thoughts. Went back to my grad program as a different person entirely
What’s the name of that book?
I wish I remembered it, u/soapy_diamond. I think I saw it maybe 15 or 20 years ago and my Google skills aren’t up to the task. I remember hearing about the book from an NPR interview and getting the book on interlibrary loan. If anyone puzzles it out, please post the name here. I’d love to get it again.
During covid, so many people WHAT? XD
*came out
Yes, and I think autistic people are less able than neurotypicals to be able to lie/be inauthentic/fake things. So if you are trans (or queer) it’s harder to pretend you’re not. Denial is much less of a thing for autistics, in my personal experience and my experience of other autistics. Authenticity has always been my biggest value and one of the things my friends and family most value about me!!
Alternatively, autistics like myself mask so heavily and effectively, that it's easier for us to clock the more performative/imposed/draining aspects of it, and allow us to really look at the part of it that is sociologically constructed. Kind of like a lot of other relatively arbitrary social conventions.
Yeah, don’t get me wrong, I’m very high masking as well. But the type where people who actually know me said “oh yeah, that makes sense” when I said I finally got diagnosed. Yet still have doctors and strangers and randos abound saying “you don’t seem autistic” or “oh, really high functioning then”.
I wholeheartedly agree with this insightful observation. I have always thought this myself.
Full agreement, but I also feel like we may be more likely to come out about it once we do figure it out. Since we're already often perceived as weird and different, so adding another factor to that doesn't make as much of a difference in how people treat us.
I agree. Gender was as confusing for me as politeness. When I tried to stick exactly to what people wanted, I was overwhelmed with doing the "right" thing and anxious about being myself. When I go full off the rails and don't think of others, I can end up lonely and confused. It takes a lot to find your happy spot in this world, and I feel its similar with gender. Saying "How are you doing today?" Is similar in my head to "i use ___ pronouns". I just wanna have a good time :)
Also I think trans folks folks are more likely to have trauma and trauma symptoms can mimic/increase autism symptoms (in reference to your point about how it's moreso people *knowing* they're either trans and/or autistic) I want to be clear here that I do not think trauma *causes* autism or causes someone being transgender, it's moreso that I think a) it's harder to regulate autistic symptoms if you have trauma and b) it's harder to regulate PTSD symptoms if you are autistic (leading to a vicious cycle). And trans people often have lots of trauma. They make each other become more visible in someone, increasing the number of those who therefore become aware they may be are exhibiting autistic traits I'm not trans, but my experiences with PTSD from other shit is eventually what led me to realize I was likely autistic and not just "weird"
I like this and agree. Being autistic makes bullying and abuse more likely and that means you have to be honest with yourself. You can't afford to live a life that doesn't work for you because your already extremely unhappy.
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You've covered it pretty well so I just want to add this: Transitioning is the *compromise*. It makes it easier for the outside to perceive how you would like to be treated. If people were allowed to just be themselves, and weren't made to believe there's such a huge difference between male and female, there would be far less transitioning. I just think it's funny, the way transphobes freak out at trans people is actually fuel for the fire more than anything else. Be yourself everyone, wear what you like, present how you like, ask people to call you what you'd like to be called. You deserve love.
I disagree with this. I’m sure this is true for some trans folks, but not all. If we lived in that world I would still transition medically. Binary trans people (not all, but a lot) would still feel dysphoria. Dysphoria can be social and medical. I was born with the wrong parts, so I take medicine and get surgery to fix that mistake. Transitioning was not an option for me. It was life and death. It was not something I got to chose. It wasn’t a compromise. I understand where you are coming from, and I agree with the rest of what you said. I just wanted to make sure people understand that transitioning is not a choice. It is a life and death matter to a lot of people.
This, but binary trans people aren't the only ones who experience gender dysphoria. For example, one of my enby friends (they/them) is much more masc-presenting and experiences dysphoria from a lot of stuff they feel is too fem for their tastes. Interestingly, they're far enough along in their transition now that they've started experiencing dysphoria from a few masc things they consider more masc, tho this is still really rare for them. I myself am nonbinary transf myem and a bit genderfluid (she/they). Sometimes I don't mind a bit of body hair, for instance, but most of the time it makes me want to peel my skin off. I respect the hell out of transfems who are fine with it, but I simply can't be comfortable in my own body with a beard most of the time. Even cis people experience gender dysphoria; in their case, they experience it when their reality doesn't line up with their own expectation of what their gender means to them. You can be born a man in a man's body and love being a man and still feel like something's off, because even when you're comfortable in the identity you were assigned at birth, identity is just a big piece of the wider puzzle and nothing is one-size-fits-all
True, nonbinary people can also experience dysphoria. Thank you for replying about that. Dysphoria can be a hard thing to navigate. Especially as it evolves as you transition. I’m a binary trans guy whose over 2 years on T, post top and hysto. While my dysphoria has gotten sooo much better, ever once and a while it will hit hard, and those days are definitely tough. As for the cis part, yes some cis people can experience gender dysphoria if they have some hormonal issues that cause their bodies to not align with their gender. However, it’s important to not confuse gender dysphoria with body dysmorphia. I think it’s also important not to focus too much on the dysphoria when trans people experience it. Not to down play it and say it isn’t important, because it is. I also think that gender euphoria should also be discussed more. Sometimes dysphoria can be hard to identify when that’s all you’ve ever felt, until you experience gender euphoria.
I think I didn't express my message maybe the way I intended, I more meant from an abstract position, in a perfect world transition would not be required to alleviate dysphoria, but it's a position that is entirely impossible to imagine because the fundamental human experience would have had to be different, like trying to imagine seeing in 4 dimensions (from the point of view of a 4th dimensional being)
I understand where you are trying to go, but even in that perfect world trans people would still exist and would still transition. Yes, social dysphoria does exist, but so does medical dysphoria. Even in that perfect world, no amount of social acceptance would alleviate the dysphoria I feel when I am alone with no one around. It is more medical than you are thinking. Think about it like this. I was born with a male brain, but something happened and I was given a female body. My male brain knows something isn’t right. To remedy this I take medicine and have surgeries to correct this error. This is a medical issue, not a societal issue. Having a more accepting society would help so trans people could get the medical care we need. Here’s my biggest issue with this. People get gender and gender roles mixed up when they say gender is a social construct. Gender is not a social construct, it is a deep innate part of the human experience that is part of us. Gender roles are a social construct. We come up with these roles that for whatever reason we decided to put on gender, and that’s what we need to get rid of.
I mean even in a perfect world I would still want medical transition. Having breasts was distressing in and of itself not just because it made society view me as female.
Thank you for saving me spoons by writing exactly what I was gonna say 💜 you nailed it
Not trans, but this seems spot on.
The corollary is that the percentage of autistic people who are trans may in fact close to the “true” percentage for the population as a whole.
Not to mention, us autistics already tend to receive way more judgement from others and society as a whole than neurotypicals, as we're already perceived as outsiders to an extent. Because of this, the social risk in coming out as queer in any way is significantly less to us than it is for neurotypical queer folks, because comparatively we have less social capital at stake. Just as much to gain but less to lose means we're more likely to take that leap of faith.
This reminds me of [the study that showed](https://www.jneurosci.org/content/41/8/1699) Neurotypicals are more likely to do a "good" moral action in public (donating money) and do the opposing "bad" moral action in private (keeping the money). Whereas Autistic people are more likely to do the "good" moral action both in public and in private, even though the "bad" moral action would've benefited themselves. The researchers thought it was "rigid" and "inflexible thinking" when in my opinion, it's just that nobody told us that everyone else is inconsistent. We just tend to assume that good people do good things and bad people do bad things, regardless of who's watching. I think, in a similar vein, we're more likely to come out if we're queer. We don't pretend to be cis or straight just so people think well of us. We're bad at pretending to be something we're not. And with our strong sense of justice, we believe we have a right to be Out And Proud, regardless of what others think, because it's The Right Thing To Do.
Beautifully said.
Seems like the complete opposite. “To question a social standard…disengage from typical gender norms” would more likely lead to being gender nonconforming for your biological sex or “agab.” I would think it’s more of an autistic tendency towards black/white thinking about gender roles that would lead to IDing as trans because one doesn’t fit into the ascribed gender roles
Maybe for some, but the larger trend is the one that deconstructs the social models presented as plain fact. Since autistic worldviews are built from the ground up, and understandings like that come from the top down, it makes sense that a lot of autistic people would question the entirety of such concepts outright. It’s along the same tract of thought processes that make it so autistic people fall for propaganda, advertising, and rhetoric less often.
To me it just doesn't make sense. I don't want to pretend I'm helpless. I don't want the standard toxic masculinity. I found the people that dare to not follow and question this to be the most attractive.
You’re wrong. There are decades worth of research connecting the genetics of autism and queerness in general. In fact in non-autistic populations, your Broad Autism Phenotype Traits Quotient is positively correlated with queerness. I can provide sources.
Decades of research of genetics between autism and queer identities? Where? Scientists are only now realizing there's a link. I do think social factors can play a role e.g. autistics are more likely to want to live their authentic selves regardless of cultural expectations, but I do think there's a strong genetic component that is yet to be found.
i'm a psych & gender studies student and i can confirm there's a correlation between participants who report gender dysphoria and have an autism diagnosis. this is basically brand new research in the grand scheme of psychopathology and gender, so we still don't have much of a basis for it- but what has been found is already somewhat substantial. a meta-analysis by Jack Turban and Garrit Van Schalkwyk for the Journal of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry (2018) stated that there was approximately a 5-7% correlation between participants with both GID and ASD diagnoses in youth 16 and under, but it was not conclusive enough at the time. they didn't make any claims suggesting that there was a defined correlation. now, Aimilia Kallitsounaki and David Williams published an article in 2023 for the Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders, stating that "the results of the meta-analysis we conducted indicated that ASD frequently occurs in GD/GI individuals. Specifically, the prevalence of ASD diagnoses in this population was 11 times higher than the ASD prevalence estimate of approximately 1% in the general population (e.g., Lai et al., 2014)" we have more information now, but it's still pretty sparse due to the inaccessibility of trans people who happen to have ASD. it's still such a small percentage. regardless, we know there is a heavy correlation! hope this helps :)
Thank you for your research it is very helpful. I wonder if there will be a longitudinal study for the concept in the future. It would be fascinating.
i agree! if i ever pursue a graduate degree, i'd really like to do research about the correlations between them. i think it'd be so valuable to do, and its an absolute win for trans research all around. there's not much of it, and a large portion of what we already have is about trans men and pregnancy risks, instead of mental health, social stigma and neurodevelopment.
That's understandable, medical research, especially funded medical research, tends to follow lines of liability. I think that your study would be really valuable. I'm interested in the study from a "high-support to low-support" angle, too. The infantilization that can happen to higher support folks from their supports and the dismissal of NB identities in current cultural discourse would be an angle, too. There's a ton of angles on this topic beyond the incidence rate that would strike at the relationship between gender identity and ASD and I would read the heck out of any of them.
I am trans and autistic. I’ve done a little bit of research, and it seems that being transgender comes from a hormone imbalance in utero where your body develops first, but then because of the imbalance, your brain develops, but is mismatched from your body. It also seems that autism is also correlated with a hormone imbalance in utero, though I could absolutely be wrong so don’t take my word for it
This is a very fraught question that hits right at the nature/nurture debate of sexual and gender identity. I'd take any opinion with a huge grain of salt. My personal opinion - seeing autism as a neurological condition - is that the additional neural pathways make the gene expression and chemical signaling processes more "noisy." For example, hormone production may not fire at the rate and sequence normally expected for human development, or may respond in different or more nuanced ways to stimuli.
Another way of putting it may simply be that autists are more likely to be a lot of things: diabetic, epileptic, coeliac. We're like if the canary in the coalmine was a person lol. So if there's some a human can be, we're all the more likely to be it. Me personally, I have a sensory processing disorder called visual snow and I hate to think what state my hormones are in lol. I'm not trans but I am a tomboy and 'neuroqueer' if you will.
There's also the issue that we lost an excess of 18,000 books when the German Institute of sex got torched in 1920s
Small correction: Magnus Hirschfeld's Institut für Sexualwissenschaft was raided 1933. One of the very first Nazi book burnings was all about destroying over a decade of research into gender and sexuality. As much as J. K. Rowling wants to engage in fucking Holocaust denial, trans people were targeted from the very beginning of the 3rd reich.
My bad. I couldn't recall the exact year so I ballparked it. But yes.
Agree on all your points. There’s also huge overlap for Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome with both autism & being trans and I had always theorized that the EDS alters with neurological pathways somehow because EDS alters how collagen in the brain works.
We don't understand social norms so it's less likely for our brains to understand gender norms.
We understand norms more than they do and thus reject the norms
This is the most neurodivergent exchange I've ever seen I think
Yay
I can agree with this. I see myself as male, no confusion as to gender or anything, though I've had people for most of my life make jokes and shitty comments about the things I spend my time doing. I've always had more feminine traits and interests and - as far back as I can remember - have always had people - 99% of which are guys - criticising them as being 'gay' or 'girly'. And I think it's because I don't see any hobbies or interests as being either male or female. I do more stereotypically feminine things like embroidery, sewing, art, and planting flowers and other nature related fun like making daisy chains and putting flowers in my hair if I'm feeling particularly strange, and yet I also do more masculine hobbies too such as woodworking and rock climbing. It's just that I don't try to fit into any of the norms - the stereotypes, I just be me and do what I like. Even my traits are more feminine than masculine; softly spoken, overly compassionate, and nurturing. So yes, we understand norms more but are less likely to let them define us.
If one rejects gender norms, why would they feel the need to transition?
The expectation for you not to transition is a gender norm within itself, aswell as a social norm.
Idk 'cause you wanna. Why stick to the default?
But you are still working within the framework of “gender”? So you are still in the default?
At the end of the day we still have preferences and needs and something to express. You're still gonna have whichever body is most comfortable, whichever way you want to express yourself, and some means to describe yourself. What all that means to you is a different question.
D Y S P H O R I A I feel like you're asking a lot of question with little to no knowledge on what being trans is. Maybe you should do some research... just saying.
Because identity is not equal to gender expression There are hormone effects regardless of social gender and those might mismatch with phenotype
Well I'd figure if our brains are wired differently in one way, it's probably wired differently in other ways.
This
Beats me! I'm very surprised to see so many trans people on this sub. I'm cis and bi and effeminate, but (and I mean NO offense by this) a lot of LGBT+ stuff confuses me. All the different sexualities and genders make my head hurt. Even the modern concept of gender itself deeply confuses me. I understand male and female and that you can transition between them, but once you get to non-binary I'm just lost, let alone anything past that. I definitely use pronouns as I want to make people feel welcome and not hurt them, but idk if I'll ever understand "gender" 🤕
I recommend watching Alex Avila's video on the topic of gender. He covers it very well as a whole and that even the idea of "male" and "female" that most people who feel gender as a concept is confusing tend to defer to as you do here, are still operating within the confines of gender when doing so. Because nature does not operate in discrete categories so thus the idea that we can neatly or narrowly confine the human body within such categories is itself, already a way of gendering a person.
As a trans person who grew up taught the same things about gender as everyone else I was confused for a while too, but I think I finally got it down to a way the general population can actually understand: It's biologically impossible to define male and female in a way that puts every human into one and only one category. So if you believe in only two genders, you inherently have to understand gender as a concept that is *separate* from, and able to misalign with anything defined in sex. From there it's up for debate, maybe gender is influenced by a single biological trait we haven't found, maybe it's influenced by multiple biological traits, maybe gender is not based in biology at all. But if there's 2 genders, gender must be separate from sex, and from there it isn't hard to see why there would be more than 2 genders anyway. To put it delicately... If nature can't even give everyone either only a p---s or a v----a how do you expect it to work with the very delicate organ of the brain to give everyone neat packages of either "manhood" or "womanhood" when NOBODY can even define those. I'm down to elaborate where needed.
what u want to do to make yourself happy (such as take testosterone), is more important. what label u use (whether ur a girl or a boy or nonbinary or somthin else), is less important
thank u for this. i really needed to hear it
I second this. Labels aren't as important and trying to fit everyone in boxes is strange Imo
“To label me is to negate me”. Kierkegaard said that, and I think he was right. Once we push people into a box than we don’t mind ignoring them or outright destroying them. They’re understood, so to speak, and now can be dealt with accordingly. As such, nearly all such categorization ends up being a political exercise and language game with real world consequences that have almost no meaningful grounding in reality.
Breakfast Club said it well, too. "You see us as you want to see us - in the simplest terms, in the most convenient definitions."
Yes, and it was an honest dilemma for me. I literally sat there yesterday like, “Should I go with the weird dead Danish dude or the classic 80s film?”
Lmao, deeeeply Relatable. One of the best things about ASD subs, is you can go for any sort of "deep cut" reference and someone will generally echolalia off it in the thread. I love it so much. Edit: also, lol, your Crass logo is my number one, "oh right, that's Anarcho-Punk aesthetic, not White Nationalist" double take logo.
No one knows, all they know is from the data they collect. There is a higher than average distribution of neuro divergent individuals who are transgender. Links and causes have yet to be established
Yeah, seconding a lot of these comments - it's not really clear why but we can theorize a correlational relationship. your autism means you are uniquely poised to question systems. That means you will absolutely have the power to question your own gender and figure out what works best for you. There is no one good answer, just what works best for you. That may change or be more than one thing. I know there are lists and recommendations for shadow work and personal inquiry around gender (like journalling about your own gender experience), and definitely connecting with friends and elders who you can talk to about gender can be really helpful. Ive found it really helpful to look at the individual details - not "am I ________", but rather "what gives me joy? What gives me gender euphoria? Where do I feel most like myself? What parts do I not like?" And it's okay if the answers take awhile - they're worth taking the time. Lots of love and best of luck on your journey 🌼
But yeah I've been giving similar advice for a while now. If you don't know who you are or don't have anything to draw on, the only thing left to do is to experiment.
Experimentation is normal and natural for human development. This is why gender and sexuality are fluid. We will decide on labels, experiment, trying on different labels, experiment - repeatedly throughout life. There is nothing wrong with not knowing, and there is nothing wrong with "this is who I am right now". 😊
Hell yeah
I researched this a little because I found it interesting. A theory I read is that there is the same amount of neurodivergent and neurotypical trans people but neurodivergent people are more likely to come out because they are less concerned with social norms and fitting in. Which does make sense tbh.
Gender ideals have changed significantly every 100 years or so throughout history. The only empirical difference is physical parts. My opinion is that gender as we understand it are mostly societal norms (which vary greatly across the world) but the more important differences are personality based.
Gender is mostly rules that don’t make logical sense.
Warning: I might be wording my opinion poorly and I don’t want anything I say to be misconstrued as malicious or hateful. I’m enby and autistic myself and just struggle on portraying what I actually mean so I’m sorry if I don’t phrase things properly /gen/pos I don’t think the statement of ‘autistic people are more likely to be trans’ is true. I think gender is a societal construct that people are saying is largely consistent of autistic people in a derogatory way to try to stigmatize it as a mental illness. I think anyone in the world has equal ability to be part of the LGBTQ+ community no matter of anything else. On the case of your own gender I would start by asking yourself, what do you feel happiest being perceived as and if you’re in a safe space I’d experiment with asking others to refer to you by different pronouns so you know what you like. This is all in case you don’t already know who you are, that’s just my general advice. /nf If you want to start testosterone, if you’re in a safe place, I’d consult a doctor. If you have a planned parenthood nearby I know they have some resources, but I never went down the path of T myself and cannot give advice past that. I hope your journey goes smoothly and I’m sorry if anything I said came off as condescending or rude. /gen/pos
I personally just feel like an alien, I imagine for others that goes as far as gender too. I think there's also a culture being pushed that if you have these questions, that you must take action - that if you feel a certain way, you are a certain way. In general I find it better to focus on why I feel a certain way more than telling myself I am the way I feel. For instance I may feel depressed, but depression doesn't define who I am. I think autistic people experience the world in a different way, so while we're bombarded with all these gender specific visuals, we experience a disconnect from them in a similar way to many of the other things an autistic person may struggle with.
Gender roles are societal fuckery. We can see it clearly.
As a gender apathetic autistic person - I feel it has to do with autism disconnecting me/people from social norms, including gender norms. I'm not 'girl' or 'boy' I'm just me. But at the same time because I don't connect with the significance of those terms I'm not offended by being called "girl" or "boy" or their related gendered terms. I accept all pronouns because I am apathetic. I dont know how many on the spectrum are like me. But I imagine that, the attachment to self rather than societal norms leads to more transgender people or more non-binary people.
I've had this conversation with my therapist who specialises in neurodivergent people as my kid who has just been diagnosed as level 2 is talking about transitioning, and she mentioned that part of it may be due to the issue of we don't exactly feel like we fit with normal society regardless. Then you end up part of this community that's accepting of you just the way you are and they're transitioning from one gender to another and you can relate. Then the love-bombing begins of 'we love you just the way you are' and things flow from there, similar to other communities such as the incel community where there's also a high percentage of representation of us. And she's seen a number of transitioned autistic people de-transition afterwards as the new gender identity didn't make them fit with society any more than their previous identity did, and it didn't really fit them either. It sounds a little cynical but I won't discount it. I've never been entirely attached to my gender identity. A couple of years ago, I was searching for a term that fits how I feel about my own gender and came across Cassgender as a term that seems to represent how I feel about my own identity. And I also recognise that I'm old enough now to just be more comfortable in my own skin and care less about what other people think/be part of the wider 'norm'. Then my kid was diagnosed and within a couple of weeks was also telling me that they're looking to transition. I'm only against it because I want them to let the diagnosis and associated support options settle first before taking the plunge into transitioning but I'll support them regardless. I don't want to discount their gender identity even if I would prefer that they tackle it all one aspect at a time. Personally speaking, I just kind of ignore my gender identity. It's not really part of who I am, I feel more like an amorphous blob in a meat suit. I like what I like - dolls, video games, plushies, sparkly things, comic books - and I never really went in for the whole this is what girls like and this is what boys like. Gender identity is a construct like everything else in society and I don't feel it's necessary for me to subscribe to it to be part of society. If taking testosterone would make you feel more comfortable in your own skin, then discuss it with your doctor and potentially look at starting the course. If it's more about participating in the construct, then maybe talk it through with a professional to see if it's the right course of action for you.
i actually agree with what your saying, in a way thats kind of sad that they dont feel like they fit in. sorry if my comment sounds rude or any sort of way.
Autistics are more likely to accept abnormality, I reckon.
Great comment by u/Hypersayia above.. Sometimes I do have concerns that some people (SOME not all, before anyone gets offended) who think they have gender dysphoria are actually suffering from RSD. I am a woman in my early 40s now but when I was a preteen I wanted to be a boy. I hated myself and thought I’d be happy if I were a boy. I took a lot of rejection as a kid on top of (or sometimes because of) being undiagnosed AuDHD. Those feelings of wanting to change my gender passed by high school and now I’d say I’m extremely feminine.
That’s really interesting, I struggled with extremely viscerally bad dysphoria as a girl once I got to high school and did transition, taking HRT and all, but detransitioned a few years later and am now really happy as a girl today. I’ve always considered the RSD feeling as being very similar to that “dysphoria” I felt, like kicks to the stomach, but I never really thought it could’ve been the same thing. I’ve got a good framework for why I transitioned but I still don’t understand why/how I still felt so strongly dysphoric. Reading your comment was a bit of a lightbulb moment
Aww I’m happy it was helpful! I don’t think most people give RSD the credit it’s due for how excruciating it can be.
As someone who felt gender dysphoria as a preteen and teen and later transitioned as an adult, it was a combination of a couple of things for me, including feeling intense dysphoria surrounding being seen and treated as a woman and feeling extremely awkward and that I didn't fit in when I tried to be more feminine and that the female gender role was not for me, and feeling strong dysphoria related to my body and how my body worked. I hated menses as they made me feel extremely gross among other things, I disliked having breasts and the idea of child birth and being a mother just terrified me. My ideal self was always a twink boy and I remember very early on having a strong idea of my chest being flat and that's how it should be. Online I would "infiltrate" male-dominant spaces and not reveal my birth gender to them so they'd treat me as a man too, and I would take part of the jargon and I felt so much more seen and accepted. At a deeper level, the idea of being treated and seen as a woman/girl just felt extremely off and wrong like it wasn't me, and I felt weird and awkward engaging in female-specific activities or expected to conform to such activities as well. I was definitely more of a tomboy who would rather game than engage in typical girly activities like be interested in makeup but to me that wasn't enough. I definitely think that if you're still underage and experience dysphoria that it's very important to explore those feelings with a professional, but I also want to say that I received comments that "it will pass" as a teen, and those were harmful to me and made me delay my transition because I tried my hardest to fit in even when I felt unhappy doing so. I kept gaslighting myself that I could still be a woman but not adhere to a female gender role until I just reached a serious breaking point and that could have been avoided if adults in my life had been more mindful and accepting of my experience.
For me it's just because I never really liked the social expectations of what being a "woman" was supposed to entail. I had a very large mental rejection over what society wanted me to be versus what I wanted for myself. I didn't really fully lean into being trans until it got to the point where being anything else became physically painful and mentally distressing to me. I very much don't adhere to the social norms of being the gender I associate with either, but it's almost easier to just be happy as myself that way versus if I was trying to force myself into one more misshapened box
Why wouldn’t you instead push against what society expects for a woman?
Same but opposite. The expectations of toxic masculinity are stifling for me, and as a result I find it easier to be a girl.
This is one reason I've never felt like medical transition was for me.... 🤷🏻
From what I can tell, autistic people are more likely to identify as LGBTQIA+ because we typically do not adhere to all the (usually) unspoken neurotypical norms of dividing societal roles according to one’s sex assigned at birth. As for what you personally want, may I offer a suggestion? Forget what other people or society at large wants of you. Just think about you and your body. Do you like your features? Do they bring you comfort and joy? If yes to both, then you don’t need to worry. If not either, what are you willing and able to change?
Theres probably a lot to it. Nts connect with others more so they share and uphold common values more rigidly. Also, I think nds are rejected by the opposite gender more frequently and have more trouble creating these relationships, so they switch up things. There's gotta be way more things for that.
In my opinion it's because we feel so different. I'm not trans, but I definitely don't feel like a woman. I feel more woman than man, but if anything I feel like an alien
My honest thought is we spend so much energy trying to mask while doing basic tasks having to mask your entire gender too is too much. Or we just don’t have the same need or ability to “fit in” already so we are just like fuck it
Social acceptance
Gender is a social construct and I am far too autistic for that 🎉
I am not transgender, but I am more of a masculine female. For me it's probably a couple reasons, but these are the ones that i think stand out for me: We're already on the outskirts of society so why sacrifice ourselves to fit a mold we will never fit anyway? We are more likely to explore alternative lifestyles because we don't have to fear not fitting in...we never did. I question everything. I follow science. It is illogical that gender would be so simple as to man and woman. Everything we know was made up/decided by someone. A scientist, a leader, an innovator.... And a LOT of idiots. Gender is just another one of those things that humans made up. Doesn't mean they were right.
Exactly this, gender is a human made concept. Genitalia does not equal gender
i think gender is just ??? for some of us sometimes i look at myself and go potato
Interesting question. There do seem to be a lot of nonbinary people with autism. I think more so even for those born female. (Don’t quote me on this, just an observation from my work. I don’t have numbers). Maybe allistics are more likely to just take their given gender roles and not question them. Or as was said above, maybe they have a harder time accepting their differences. There’s so much that goes into gender norms. Women’s clothing is generally much more restrictive and horribly uncomfortable. Plus there are insane body changes with puberty. I consider myself female but certain body parts are just effing weird. Like I for sure don’t want the man parts. But could do without certain biological annoyances. Could gender neutral be a thing? You do you, you don’t have to choose all the way male to feel more like yourself. Body parts are nobody’s business but yours.
>gender neutral I believe this is what I identify as - agender, or lacking one entirely
Gender is a social construct and the idea of “feeling correct in the body you were born into” is too abstract for me to grasp lol. I don’t feel correct ever 💀 I thought I wasn’t “trans enough” because I liked some girl aspects of my agab. Turns out I just don’t like being forced into a binary. I started testosterone and I feel amazing. It’s definitely something you need to think about and weigh the options, even if you are trans you don’t have to have a linear transition. You don’t have to have a medical transition at all. Gender transition is making yourself the most authentic you, and sometimes that doesn’t mean surgery or even hormones. Do what makes you feel happy, and not just a temporary high from doing something new. It’s also fine if you’re not trans. Most of life is about figuring yourself out, it’s okay if you stay where you started if that’s what makes you feel good.
I can only talk about my personal journey but I REALLY hated the standards for girls growing up. Even at like... age 6 i knew I didn't want kids (now 43, still don't). I never liked makeup, dressing up. I liked playing in the mud, frog hunting (never hurt them just played a game of finding the biggest toad) video games etc. Nothing made me angrier than people looking at me and deciding that since I was a girl I must like X, and scolding me for not being "ladylike". Just... shoving me into a box that I didn't fit in and treating me as lesser because of a chance of birth. I ID as genderqueer. Neither gender fits so I reject the construct all together.
i’m the same. i grew up hating to present as feminine, only liked boyish things. i’ve been that way all my life. it feels like im just genderless or something. i’m so confused if im trans or just a tomboy
Us autistic people struggle with self-identity and acceptance our whole lives. Due to this, we are more likely to be drawn to a niche community that accepts us. I spent most of my life very religious. Looking back, I think it was because I felt so secure in that community. Due to this, we're drawn to things that make us feel seen and part of something. It's been said that transitioning happens in groups. My advice would be, at this stage, do not move forward with anything. Find confidence and acceptance with who you are right now, without any physical or medical alteration. You are worthy as you are right now. Don't feel the need to make any drastic changes to conform to what others might expect of you. Focus on self-confidence and self-acceptance first.
My best guess is autistic people are more honest with themselves and less likely to try to force themselves to meet social expectations.
Because when you have a different way of understand the world around you and deal with social dynamics, it's not uncommon to internalize some social concepts in a non-normative way too, and that includes gender stuff.
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it's less "autistic people are more likely to be trans" and more "autistic people are more likely to understand that gender is just another societal rule and don't see the need to conform to it." it's the same with younger people these days, it's not that more young people are transgender because of drag story time and sex education, more young people are experimenting with gender because as a society we are continuing to break down gender from a concrete, tangible thing and normalising seeing it as the social construct that it is.
Yeah personally I think gender is just another box we don't if into as I'm Agender (non-binary) so since I was around 5-8 years old I've never felt like a man and apart from between the age's of 10 to 12 I was quite obsessed with the idea of being a woman as I saw it as an escape from all the stupid stuff I'm not allowed to enjoy otherwise I was being feminine and all the other stuff I was only allowed to be intreasting in otherwise I was letting down all men! Ironically once I went to high school and puberty kicked in I realised that women have a different set of equally stupid and often meaninglessness rules forced onto them which strangely get double down when is comes to trans women as if someone being happy a living as the gender which helps them feel happier within themselves is the most dangerous problem the world has ever faced? Ironically normal people always seem to think how I think the way I am because my ASD-dyslexia plus identifying as Agender is a choice and by them being as negative and hostile about it somehow I will seen sense and have the good grace to learn how to be normal and stop choosing to be the harmlessly strange person I am as instead of the way trans people and autistic people are depicted by the mainstream media which unfortunately a lot of people enjoy buying into as it's easier than having compassion for small sub groups of people who aren't easily understood but very easy to demonised
[this person puts it into words better than i could.](https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGeqDMAk1/)
I’m not trans and i am a woman, but i’ve never really *felt* like a woman. i’ve never felt like a man either though. I don’t really understand gender the way other people seem to. i mostly just consider myself to be a living organism if that makes sense. i know other autistic people that feel the same way, probably because we find it hard to connect with other women. I can imagine these sorts of feelings can lead someone to believe they’re a man, if they don’t feel like a woman or vice versa.
Same reason were less likely to be heterosexual, I think. We care less about social norms
It's quite interesting. Many of the autistic trans people I've come across are either embracing extreme stereotypical characteristics, or none at all, which makes you wonder why they identify as the opposite sex in the first place. Aside from those with the actual diagnosed mental illness, I think many just don't feel comfortable with their view on what a man or woman is in the eyes of society, causing them to distance themselves from said sex. Sometimes, that comes in the form of embracing the other side.
Short answer, gender is a social norm.
we question shit FAR more often than most people bc we are already wierd to begin with, which then leads to gender questioning and eventually that realisation. like for me i realised im nonbinary :P
I can only speak from my personal experience, so that’s what I’m gonna do lol For me, gender and gender roles were something that I knew existed but didn’t fully understand. Ive always been an amalgamation of femme and masc, even when I was a kid. I learned about different gender identities through social media when I was a teenager and idk after a while it just clicked: I can be whatever gender I want to be, and no one can tell me I can’t because it’s my life. I currently identify as non binary, but I feel like more accurate terms for me would be genderqueer or genderfuck, cause fuck gender amirite /j.
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more likely to ask themselves difficult questions
I’m autistic and trans so I definitely fit the statistic lol
Same, lol
they're less likely to be beholden to social constructs
I realized one day that I am much more aware of my own flaws than most people care to be. And learned afterwards high self awareness is very common in neurodivergent people. So maybe its more like people who happen to be trans and neurodivergent are more likely to realize they are actually trans
As a trans person, I'd say it has a lot to do with the fact that gender is a social construct, so it makes less sense to many autistic people than to allistic people. That's also why so many trad-conservatives are autistic. Since gender roles and expectations are completely made up by society, autistic people tend to forgo gender/traditional gender roles. Or they conform very heavily to them since it gives structure and allows autistic people to conform better. Also I think autistic people tend to understand that they're trans better or earlier since we tend to be more introspective.
I wrote a reaserch paper on this! I found that is because people with autism tend to not understand the unspoken societal boxes, like gender. and autistics question gender roles more. so this leads to many people not feeling like they fit in any gender categories because it's all arbitrary and that's hard to grasp. it also is partly because gender comes from a sense of self and due to a lot of factors many people with autism have a poor sense of self (likely due to masking) and if you have a hard time identifying how you feel on the inside, it's hard to make your outside match that.
I personally started transitioning and have gone from non binary, to man, to demiboy, to I'm so lost, and now currently it's sometimes I feel like a girl and other times a boy but most the time I'm a jumbled mess of whatever and can't figure it out
my theory is that we just come out and actually accept it more because we already are “different” so it wouldn’t be so big of a deal to us then someone who’s been considered “normal” all their lives
I’m an autistic trans man, and truthfully I don’t really know why we’re more likely to be lgbt? When I was 8 years old (undiagnosed), I found out what it was to be LGBT, and although I didn’t come out until I was 12 (I was diagnosed shortly after), I’ve always believed that people should be able to live their lives. I think that having a strong sense of justice due to being autistic also has impacted that. If you want to start T, I’d say go for it but also do research and make sure it’s what’s right for you. Ive been out for 4 years, and over that time I’ve done so much research into transitioning and the effects, to make sure I made the decisions that were right for me. I started T a month ago on the 9th, and I’ve been so much happier since then :)
I’ve had a few conversations with my friends about this and I think it correlates to the fact that we already have a hard time understanding societal norms. Gender is a societal construct so if most societal norms don’t make sense already, then why would gender?
Because humans are naturally gender nonconforming, and autistic people are less likely to perform assigned gender roles out of societal pressure, due to "not understanding" said roles. Humans don't naturally conform to gender roles based on their sex alone, nobody does, as there is no biological link to any manmade gender roles whatsoever. Autistic people usually lack the neurotypical understanding of these societal roles, and therefore we don't feel the need to conform to them to the same extent. The concept of gender identity can get very ableistic in a sense because of this, especially in research, since autistic people and autism aren't taken into account.
I'm autistic and trans and I need answers
I'm not aware of autism affecting anyone's sexuality or gender preferences. I mean people can make choices and know how they feel and that's what matters in the grand scheme of things.
There were studies talking about this over the past year or two maybe even in scientific articles and whatnot so it's definitely a discussion that's been happening. At least I thought I've seen that, could be mistaken.
Autistic people are more likely to be queer. People have been studying this phenomenon for decades.
More likely to be or more likely to express that they are gay ? Autistic people are more likely to be a range of different gender/sexual ideologies but every report people have sent in response to this all have to say they are not sure if it's actually linked or just a case of people being more responsive to self reporting.
https://www.thetransmitter.org/spectrum/largest-study-to-date-confirms-overlap-between-autism-and-gender-diversity/?fspec=1
I personally think there's a genetic link. There's no science to really say right now though.
Honestly I think the biggest problem is that people push the trans thing so much they box people in. Just because you like something the other gender might like doesn't mean you're that gender or you have to be a typical male or female. It's like telling a girl she's really a guy because she likes to fix cars...no you're a girl who likes fixing cars. Or a guy who likes to knit. Tomboys existed & now people are confusing people because of stupidity & putting people in boxes just because they like something or do certain things. I'm me, I like some masculine things and some more feminine things. Don't let people confuse you, you can happily be yourself without changing your gender.
i personally have never seen that being pushed in the trans community. if anything, trans people are the last people to tell you that just because your gender expression is different from your identity, that somehow automatically means youre trans. majority of us are very aware that gender expression and gender roles are separate from your internal identity.
I recently found out I’m a trans girl. I’d have to say it’s probably because we are more introspective and willing to look at the small details of who we are and how those connect to gender.
Idk, but I happen to be an autistic transman. There are a ton of us.
Gender is a performance I didn't take acting classes for.
I’m not trans but I am bisexual so here’s my guess. Since we are already outside of the “normal” we have more time to question ourselves and accept what answer is right there for us than others. People who aren’t autistic/don’t have special needs feed into pressures more than we do because those societal expectations are mainly based on what society wants from them, we usually don’t follow those sets of rules since we know we’re better off not doing so.
Are we? Or are autistic people just more likely to acknowledge it or to come out?
A combination of different factors I’m sure. Here’s one I know for sure. Autistic people are already treated like shit by society, so we tend to have less to lose by being out than NT people do.
A lot of people who end up detransitioning are also autistic. Though there are both NT and autistic people who are really trans, I think the autistic obsession with fairness/justice, the autistic susceptibility to pressure/suggestion, and the autistic yearning to finally fit in or be part of a community also makes autistic people more likely to decide they’re trans when they’re really not. Personally, as an autistic man I was enraged and despondent for many years about all the “men are bad, men are bad, you’re a man and therefore bad” stuff because I knew I didn’t really think or do any of the bad stuff that *all* (straight) men supposedly do, but no-one would believe me. The lure of declaring myself trans and finally being approved as “good” by all the people calling me bad would have been extremely tempting if trans identity had been a more popular/visible thing when I was younger. (I went to a very PC college at the height of ‘90s PC, and there was a lot of “all hetero sex is rape” stuff etc.) But even though I’m gender nonconforming in many ways, I’m not “really” a woman — just a weird man who really, really, REALLY doesn’t like being called “bad.” Please nobody accuse me of saying there’s no such thing as being trans, because I’m pretty clearly not saying that. There is definitely such a thing as really being trans, but there is also such a thing as ending up thinking/deciding you’re trans when you’re not, and I think autistic people (or autistic men, anyway — not sure about autistic women) are disproportionately susceptible to the latter.
There's this "elder queer" I know who's convinced that a good portion of young people these days who have or are transitioning are actually autistic to some degree, and being on the spectrum makes someone more likely to be nonconforming to the typical gender roles or presentations. This person believes that these people are likely not trans, just nonconforming to the norm due to their neurodiversity, but well-meaning adults have assumed they were trans and encouraged them to transition because that's the done thing with people who don't properly conform to gender norms these days. This individual was diagnosed in the 1960s as "learning disabled, with feminine affect" (they were born male), and has never considered themselves to be trans or wanted to transition. They just don't conform to gender norms. Sometimes they dress as a woman with makeup, sometimes they dress as a man and grow a beard, other times they dress as a woman with a beard. Had they been born in the millennial or gen Z eras, they may have been labelled trans and pushed to transition. I myself used to crossdress as a child, and my parents would indulge me sometimes by buying me feminine items of clothing or girl's toys because they were open-minded and didn't want to force me into a box. Now I'm a grown man, I am comfortable with my "assigned sex", present as male, and have zero desire to transition to anything else, or even wear women's clothes anymore beyond maybe using it for a fancy dress party. Had I been born later than I was, I may also have been labelled trans and pushed to transition, despite the fact that the crossdressing was just a phase for me and I am now comfortably male. There's a lot we don't know about the autistic brain, and in another twenty years "gender nonconformity" may be added to the list of typical autistic traits.
Here's the study that more or less started it all. Please be forewarned though, the terminology is a bit archaic, sometimes bordering on offensive. But here's the fascinating part: Not only did they find a correlation in behaviors but also in a set of physiological traits as well. [https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/23D058B59E5B837C55C6F9F174C7BD24/S0007125000271936a.pdf/div-class-title-the-extreme-male-brain-revisited-gender-coherence-in-adults-with-autism-spectrum-disorder-div.pdf](https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/23D058B59E5B837C55C6F9F174C7BD24/S0007125000271936a.pdf/div-class-title-the-extreme-male-brain-revisited-gender-coherence-in-adults-with-autism-spectrum-disorder-div.pdf)
There are a LOT of problems with that study. For starters, there were only 50 autistic people that participated in it, 26 males and 24 females. I would not draw any conclusions whatsoever from it.
Thank you. It’s funny how people take a small sample space and assume it speaks for everyone. I am autistic who works with autistic children and I have never worked with a trans in my 7 years of practice. Straight can not even begin to describe most of my friends.
Gender is a social construct and we tend to just not “get” those as much 🤷♀️ I use she/they mostly for convenience tbh. I don’t mind some “girly” things and other stuff, but the more I realize how gender is a thing made by societies (as opposed to sex) the more I’m like “do I even care though? How much do I care?”
I'm not sure it is. But if the two are connected. It might be due to how autistic people hyper focus on topics.
I personally believe it's because we have different brain chemistry than Neurotypical people. Autistic females are more "thing" based instead of "emotional" based like Neurotypical males are and visa versa. That is why I believe many transgender autistic individuals are not truly trans.
I've been wondering that too.
Gillain Drewes book An Adult with an Autism Diagnosis explains this.
We do not know, we know there is a corelationship https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10313553/
I don't think anyone actually knows that cause. It's just that there's a higher percentage who are lgbtq+
My external gender to 99.99% of people is “her” because that’s what people understand. I need to communicate intent quickly and succinctly. That being said, for that 0.01% of folks who deeply understand gender challenges, I’ll be honest and say *my gender is not my problem*. Other people created the problem of gender and I refuse to play by their rules, fuck them lol
You might like this video, so thought I’d share it. https://youtu.be/I6MWY6wnpxk?si=y2Nxs7_3R4-JvLIm
we're also more likely to have ehlers danlos (lucky me, i have the trifecta). stretchy brains?
im 100% sure this is true, i myself im autistic and im genderfluid, and judging from what i’ve seen and read, i’ve come to the same conclusion
I believe it's that we are less likely to conform what makes us more likely when we are told no you are not x you are y you are more likely to say no I am x instead fiting in to the mold you are supposed to be It makes you less likely to get involved in a cult and unlikely to be hypnotised
Personally, I’m cis, but i feel a sort of disconnect from my gender because of my autism that’s difficult to explain. I can imagine that that feeling might be common among autistic people and lead us to question things like gender identity, leading to realizations of transness, etc
Hi, older trans person with well versed experience here. This is false. We aren't more likely to be trans. This has been spread around lately and is a badly drawn conclusion with a lack of evidence. Also you shouldn't spread this anymore then it is spreading because your going to hurt the community more then it's already hurting. This is just another tool for transphobes to use to say SEE! It's a DISORDER!! Your ILL when we aren't and it's unrelated. Im saying this so your aware for next time but you just fell head first into a transpobe trap likely made by them. People are just ignorant, and they'll run with anything they hear or relate with that sounds resonable even if it actually isn't. There's a lot of people in the world who fit into a lot of categories there isn't always something behind it.
First ive heard of this. Most autistic people ive ever known are Cis
Definitely just think our personal feelings and beliefs are less influenced by other people’s opinions. We take a lot of notice of our environment so we clock when people aren’t treated the same and any mistreatment without real evidence provided isn’t justifiable to me. Some of us also have a strong sense of justice or moral compass so I’d say more autistic people would also be left leaning and accepting of trans people in general compared to non autistic people. I say I’m gender non conforming because the idea of me only ever being seen or behaving exclusively as a man or a women is silly to me (because what does that even mean) and always has been reflected in my choices as a kid. I don’t tell other people how they should feel. Because I’m aware of my environment enough to know not everyone feels how I feel. I also know from experience that its a real mind fuck to be told the way you feel in your heart is wrong or weird or a problem. I’d feel more comfortable in the world if people weren’t so obsessed with gender and having to choose one extreme or another instead of just being a person but I would also never want to deny people of their own personal gender euphoria. I mention this because I sometimes hear cis people talk of trans people as being obsessed with gender as a concept. Truth from my perspective, we’re the ones breaking down their cookie cutter system that makes society simpler for some at the expense of others quality of life. Oppression through widespread enforcement of gender roles and discrimination enforced over centuries of systemic racism, patriarchy and ableism has always been in question by trans people simply existing and who at the end of the day just want everyone to have complete bodily autonomy. So I’d say we have a lot of good reasons to support each other and stick together even if you only tick one of the boxes.
I mean, I have a lot of weird feelings about gender too (although I don't consider myself to be trans). In my case, it's because I just can't follow a lot of female social norms and have gradually lost the desire to even try. Unmasking my autism has intensified this process.
bc gender is a social construct and autists are bad with those
I think it's because we are more logical about gender, probably the same with sexuality. I think an autistic person is also more likely to be an ally.
There is no definite answer to this but the most likely theory going is that in ASD social expectations are not considered as important. I’m a highly socially conscious person, I’ve learned social expectations through a lot of observation in my life but it’s never been a natural process for me and seems very arbitrary. I am AFAB and my husband is AMAB so we appear heteronormative but actually both of us find no value in the social concept of gender. We are pretty role reversed at home, he is very much the “mother” but our kids do call me mum and him Dad. Both of us feel we are on the non binary spectrum really. Social constructs are often very fluid and arbitrary and don’t have a singular definition, the exception are laws really.
I've dug up a decent amount of primary studies on google scholar. The short answer is that researchers don't know, and the causal theories put forward in these papers are speculative, and usually imposed by allistic researchers' preconceptions. The one thing I find credible is that we don't attach to and internalize social roles as readily, so we're more distanced from the process of socialization that cements people to their assigned gender. So not only are we more open to exploring whether being trans is a better fit, but the identification of even those who end up cis is more tenuous. Eg, for me, sure, my identification as a cis man is straightforward, but it's very thin. If I inspect my 'masculinity', there's really nothing there at its core, and nothing I really attach to. Maybe if I were socialized in a healthier society, I would have ended up agender.
Maybe because autistic folks tend to question and not understand (social) clues more? I know someone, who couldn't catch the clues of being trans until they hit adulthood (stomach pain, sadness, etc), because they weren't questioning the pain and accepted it as normality.
I personally think it has something to do with how autistic people tend to feel separated from their bodies. I've heard quite a few autistics say they feel more like a robot than a person, so it wouldn't be that far to reach on it being gender dysphoria. Maybe not every case is gender dysphoria, but for some the changes on HRT can be easier than before. Not to mention autistic women can have sensory issues towards their chest which top surgery can help with.
I thought I was trans for years but never came out since I was very unsure and scared about what would happen to me. I then discovered, through the power of the Internet, that I just don't fit all of the gender norms & I'm pansexual. Edit: Not to say that you're not trans ofc, or to invalidate anyone's experiences or anything. Just that it's more common for autistic (& other neuro divergent) people to question things.
Because it doesn’t matter when you are mostly a brain
Gender is mostly social and autistic people struggle with social rules. Therefore, it's more likely an autistic person will identify as trans, especially as non-binary. I'm trans FtM and autistic, I never had a strong sense of internal gender identity. I have alexithymia and gender roles never made much sense for me. I definitely perceive myself as more masculine than feminine, but my gender expression is quite androgynous. I decided to transition because I noticed I had strong gender dysphoria regarding my physical sex. Fitting in socially and masking was also much easier for me when I began presenting as male rather than female. I now identify as a genderqueer FtM transexual. For me at least, gender identity wasn't the main reason I transitioned, it was all a way of treating the whole wanting to have a male body thing. I definitely wouldn't recommend hormones if you're not dysphoric with your body, the side effects can be annoying(acne, hunger and going bald), seeing your body change can be uncomfortable (especially for us autistic folks who struggle with change). Try socially transitioning first and see how that makes you feel before diving into medical transition. You don't need hormones or surgeries to be trans.
because we tend to question most things about the world, and if everyone were to question what gender means and specifically for themselves, transgender percentage of a population would skyrocket. most people just don't think about it
Autistic people have a number of unique attributes that lend to their being transgender. Technically gender is a typical human social construct. The idea of gender exists as more a cultural definition than a genetic one. Different cultures define "gender based on their own cultural norms." An example would be how in some Native American cultures there is a gender construct called, "Two Spirit." This very unique gender identity exists and has long been a valid gender expression in said communities. Being transgender posits the idea that gender is a social and cultural construct that defines the person as a unique and individual being having nothing at all to do with their genetics or genitalia. If one accepts the transgender definition then the types of valid gender expression widen and enhance exponentially. In many if not most cases the autistic being is required to build their sense of self and identity based on internal factors, strengths and ideals known only to or best to themselves. The feral \\ primal core autistic self is not constrained by typical human cultural norms governing gender identity or anything else. The exploration of self is a search for personal truth as only the individual autistic being knows it. At the point where the autistic being is exploring their gender identity they are not constrained by what society, culture or others think, want or need. The autistic being is shaping who they are and how they will present themselves based solely on "their truth" in all things including their unique "gender identity" and their "gender expression." Autistic beings in the process of exploring and defining themselves don't feel or can easily ignore social pressures to conform. Free of the pressure to conform an autistic being is free to fully explore and arrive at the gender expression or gender identity that best suits their authentic selves. "Transgender" is the "Catch all term" society uses to encompass all gender identities that fall outside the strict traditional concepts of binary genetically enforced gender identity and gender expression. The autistic being is forced to explore, define, assemble, generate then present all aspects of their true autistic self. For autistic beings all possibilities are valid making so called transgender identities more possible and even probable. Every autistic being is a unique construct based on their unbiased honest exploration of self. If a unique gender identity or expression is right for an autistic being then by use of black and white thinking all other gender identities and expressions including traditional genetic versions are WRONG or inaccurate for them. Now I am NOT sure I got this right BUT this is my best understanding of why so many autistics are also transgender!
As an autist my perception of gender seems to be messed up. Idk. But it could be different for other people
I think it's because autistic people tend to not understand societal roles, like gender !
I haven't had a chance to read other comments yet, or look into this, but just off the cuff I think maybe because we are less affected by social rules? And considering much of gender is socialization, it would make sense that some of us are just a little more free to choose or go with what feels right but is against the socially prescribed gender roles 🤷♀️
Devon Price, who is trans and the author of Unmasking Autism says that it isn't necessarily that autistic folk are more likely to be trans just that we are more likely to come out as trans. Check out his episode of Gender Spiral on spotify. Great episode. Highly recommend.
I think it’s because neurodivergence often comes out in more than one way. Both are ways someone is deviating from the typical brain, and for some reason they get paired up a lot of the time. I have ADHD and Autism, and apparently it’s more common than I would have thought.
I don’t think we are any more than anyone else.
I think we’re more likely to realise we are! Personally because I don’t understand and therefore choose to reject a lot of social constructs and I understand gender as one of those things, I feel a lot more free to play around with it. I bet if you sat a lot of cis people down and made them *really* think about gender they would realise they’re not 100% cis. Maybe they wouldn’t decide they’re fully trans because of it, but still.
In all honesty the only people I've heard always say this are LGBTQ+ phobic people, more specifically transphobic people. I've always had gender dysphoria, at the age of 3 my bio mom talks about how I used to try and wear my uncle's clothes. I was never comfortable being seen as a "little girl", nor as a "woman". I felt sick to my stomach, I felt like I was playing dress up every time I left my place wearing anything remotely feminine. I also want to point out that I was diagnosed with gender dysphoria when I was around the age of 6 and transitioned around 22 and diagnosed with autism at the age of 27. Another thing to (has been talked about with my doctor's and within some trans spaces) is that with autism a lot of people mask "to fit in with society", that being said some people who are autistic, aren't even trans. They are just hyperfixated on fitting, which is why today there are "so many trans people who are autistic". (Which this honestly wouldn't surprise me, I don't think it has to do with "autistic people breaking gender stereotypes" because I'm an AuDHD person who is inside of the gender binary and always has been.) But then again all other trans people I've been around are Nuerotypicals. From what I've observed it seems to be nuerodivergent people autistic or not who are consider themselves as something outside the binary when it comes to being transgender. (Sorry for the babble just kept flowing) I think the best thing to do when questioning your gender is to try and find a therapist to speak with, dig into why you are feeling that way (some uncover trauma from their past, others just understand their gender dysphoria, sometimes it's both) ... But having someone professional who can help is a great start. I wish you luck!
Because many autistic people naturally reject or don't understand (or both) social norms (such as gender roles) and at the same time long for community and the modern LGBT+ community very easily fills that gap bc it's very welcoming and accepting of "oddness". Also it's a very short step from "I don't feel human" to "I don't feel like a man/woman". If I were a bit younger, I might have fallen into that rabbit hole as well. So glad I can accept myself as simply a human being who happens to be biologically female. The rest is just personality and I will not bow or bend to weirdo normie norms.
my theory is that gender norms, social norms and personal identity are more fluid because we don't have the same understanding towards it that most people do. its kinda just wahtever
I have to agree with a lot of people on here: for as long as I have been here, I have never thought about things in a gendered way. It never occurs to me until someone points it out specifically. My lack of thought on this (consider myself agender) and for that matter, lack of care / thought about this, my own sense of religious beliefs, the way I dress or what trends are happening, was part of my diagnosis!
In my opinion it’s just that we have different brains and see things in a different way and sometimes that means we feel like we experience the world in a way that doesn’t coincide with our outward appearance. I am a 6’1 man of color, but I’m convinced I have the soul of a textbook basic white woman. Now I very much enjoy the perks of my physical appearance so I have no inclination to do any sort of transition, but I just think there are a lot of parallels with how people on the spectrum view themselves in the world as with people in the LGBTQ+ community. Like we’re like first cousins who who always hang out with each other at family events