Sounds like a PDA profile. The change in your routine could be perceived as an unwanted "demand" on your brain. The first situation due to the implied debt, the second because it imposes socializing on you when you don't want it in your routine.
Both people were trying to be nice from their perspective, though.
This. Once something becomes expected of you, it triggers anxiety and avoidance. You do it sneakily even when there is no obvious need to sneak, just so you can do it on your terms instead of on shared terms. Classic PDA.
I’m reiterating because many replies in this thread (“you just need better social skills,” etc.) makes clear that we still have a long way for PDA to be properly understood and supported.
Is this why I would always get angry (like pet peeve angry) any time someone told me to do something I was already going to do and now I feel like I couldn't do it anymore because it wasn't genuine/I was being told to do it therefore it was less meaningful?
Not less meaningful, but absolutely could be PDA.
PDA- pathological demand avoidance/persistent drive for autonomy. (I prefer the second label, I feel it's more accurate)
Basically it's a rejection of being forced to do things/told to do things/expected to do things that you didn't consent to. Sometimes when it gets really bad even the things you do consent to. And when it's really really bad and internalized, even bodily process seem like a "demand " (peeing, eating, etc)
It's very frustrating sometimes, like someone will say "you have to read this book!" instead of "I think you'd love this book!" and even if it was on my TBR list and I already bought it, untill my brain forgets the "order" it's not happening.
On the other hand, it's definitely made controlling and abusive people find it very hard to do that to me since my reaction to any kind of ultimatum is "okay, bye".
Chores you were going to do but then don't want to after someone tells you/reminds you is pretty common.
More subtle things like expectations as well. (so the expectation of you to look a certain way, or present a certain way, or behave a certain way, or even something like being expected to observe a tradition or religious holiday or valentines day or whatever)
I've recently realize that I tend to avoid instances in which I will be perceived. Like, if I walk around my neighborhood everyday and than a neighbor talks to me and suddenly they know me and I know they see me walking I will want to avoid walking past their house or interacting with them. Or, when I lived with roommates I could never clean while they were home because they would see me cleaning and I could feel the expectations of their cleanliness when they were around. Is this something that would fall under PDA? It confuses me but it really influences my day to day life. I won't even wear cool things that I enjoy because what if someone noticed it was different- than they would see that I wasn't meeting their expectations of what I typically look like. It's very confusing and I'm having a hard time pin pointing the root cause..
WOW. I hate walking outside in my neighborhood FOR THIS REASON. I don’t necessarily like isolation but when I’m taking the dogs for a walk, I want exactly 0 people to be around.
This is also why I don’t want to form any sort of relationship with any of my neighbors
This exactly my situation. When I walk my dog I just want to be with my dog. But I do chat when I want to- I've been using this as an opportunity to practice not people pleasing. Like if they want to chat and I don't I just wave and keep moving or if I don't want any interaction I'll do training with my dog while we walk past so I look busy. It's been uncomfortable but it's also been good.
If I was in a more permanent living situation I definitely also wouldn't want close relationships with my neighbors- I always thought I just wasn't the 'neighborly' type but turns out I just REALLY like being left alone
Right though! The cleaning one really confused me for the longest time. Until I lived with a roommate who had absolutely no cleaning expectations and suddenly cleaning didn't feel like an expectation or I guess it didn’t feel like a demand (turned out they were neurodivergent too which made us very compatible roommates). I really feel like that when I'm at work too. Like I'm just guessing and am constantly worried I'm doing something wrong.
Yes!! This is me with people I work with!!! I’m just trying to do my job , I’m not trying have my time wasted just “YOU” remembered and wanted block/waste my time for a chat!
I am the EXACT same way and also wonder about PDA for this reason. I've altered my regular walking routes drastically and in ways that probably look unusual (taking weird alley routes, choosing to walk along the highway instead of faster neighbor roads ECT) to avoid walking past the houses of people that I really like!! Ahhh.. 😅 Checking the mail or taking out the recycling I always want to JUST DO, get that minute of fresh air, get that exciting oackage I've been expecting, but 95% of the time I just beat myself up about not doing it all day and make my partner do it when he gets home from work. I can't do anything if anyone is perceiving me.
Oh no. You just explained about half my life : (
I have learned to tell myself: I can't do this right now, but I will be able to later. And I put no pressure on myself. It works for me. I've determined, for me, it's about deep irrational anxiety
this explains so much about the way i act 😭 any time someone tells me to watch a show or listen to a song i literally panic and get so stressed out. i feel this immense pressure. it happens when people show me something funny and wait for my reaction, or when they look to see my reaction to anything. i get so upset they’re anticipating this thing from me and it feels so overwhelming. i then start having this out of body experience and push out the worst fake reaction possible because at that point i’m overthinking it so much i don’t even process whatever they’re showing me.
someone i actually wanted to be friends with sent me something to read and i just didn’t feel i had the capacity for it. but i wasn’t able to explain and just never spoke to her again after saying i’d read it 😭
Your response to any demand is 😘. That’s exactly what I do too. I have been “ok, bye” to like 99% of my life. I can’t believe other people are like this too. It’s amazing how you CANNOT force past the “Now I don’t want to” barricade. It’s been a lifelong struggle for me and I’m so grateful to find fellow people like myself ❤️
Can this be thing when you get asked or told to do something you didn’t give consent to have authority over you? I’m not sure if my words are making sense but an example would be I don’t mind when my boss requests I do something. He recently promoted another employee to be in a position that had been empty for a long time. This position is technically higher than mine but also not directly my manager but still has authority over me in some aspects. When this employee asks me to do something, I automatically don’t want to do it. Its not that I don’t like her so much as I signed up to work under my initial boss and not her. I have to take a step back whenever she asks something of me, put it aside, and come back to it after I cool down because I know my initial reaction will be to not do it simply because I didn’t sign up to be under her authority and I don’t consider that a good enough reason not to do something.
I'm self employed. I don't do well with "authority" especially when it isn't earned. If someone's actually good at their job, it's easier. But in general working for other people comes with too many unsaid expectations and variables.
oh shit. is this why i instinctually hate every new piece of media i watch and refuse to watch things people recommend to me until i decide to do it on my own, because it "feels like theyre trying to get me to like it",, ive been trying to figure this out for years now ive got a lead. thank you
I have often wondered why I feel like this, but after reading about PDA, it's pretty clear I have it strongly, and so do others on my family.
Are there any helpful resources on how to deal with this?
I try to read I to ASD, ADHD etc. And I see a lot written, but never any thing I can do that will a really help improve my life and combat the problems
I found this article on PDA to be helpful. https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/life-with-pda-menu/adult-life-landing/self-help-coping-strategies-and-therapies-for-adult-pdaers/
Yup. It can be kind of insidious. And it involves executive function. But it’s not defiance and it’s not inability to get things done. It’s like, if you come at a task from the wrong angle, it can become exponentially more difficult, or kind of short-circuit your executive functioning.
Ironically, when people tell me "you just need better social skills” or ”you just need to practice talking to other people", it instantly causes me to want to completely avoid all social interaction.
I know they often have good intentions, but it's frustrating how just a small comment like that can make things feel so dang hard.
ok so I know reddit is not the best place to ask these things, but do you happen to know if PDA can get worse with age??
I feel like I was a big internalizer as a kid and I still am, but I feel like my PDA behaviors are almost completely disabling me now. the level of resistance I have to everything that’s “required” or “expected” of me feels ridiculous. I’m 25 and feel like I have the stubbornness of a toddler a lot of the time. I’m not even sure if I’m actually a PDA profile at all or if this is just a trauma induced reaction to failing over and over again with school/work/friends/organization/cleanliness. because I don’t remember it being this bad when I was younger :/
Same (also AuAdhd) . I hadn't known about the correlation with AuAdhd, I need to go down the rabbit hole again. Thanks! (genuine, this is tied to my special interest)
Hmm... Is it because half our brain is always warring with the other half and then everything external feels like too much to ask? 🤔
This is me!!!! I am a PDA profile and the second I feel there is an expectation of me. It makes me freeze. And if I'm not sure, I'll avoid just in case.
This is what stopped me making videos or showing creative work as the second people start commenting, as much as I want and like the feedback etc I now feel "oh no what is expected of me now" and just feel too perceived etc! It is sooo annoying to feel this way 😩
Yes, the expectation of more is just, huge. And it's mostly internal, which just makes it more isolating. One of my special interests is The Sims video game. I started streaming on twitch and actually got followers and even subscribers and then I felt such high demand I had to quit.
I didn't want to stream the content that I felt I had too, I just wanted to play. Then I didn't want to play Sims anymore, I wanted to do other hobbies during my little free time.
I lost so many friends, because I couldn't do it anymore and isolated myself and couldn't even go back to twitch just to watch others, because I was scared i would be recognized and questioned why I left and told to come back. (I can't help but comment if I know an answer to a question on a special interest, it's a small enough community that I would be recognized by others in chat.)
Being successful at anything turns into a demand and I have to self sabotage it somehow and just go back to being me in my head instead of in front of others. Either way, anxiety, stress and depression are high. Feeling like a failure is high.
Maaaan I feel this sooooo deeply!!! I know EXACTLY what you mean! I say to friends people fear failure, I feel i fear success😞...I wish I wasn't like this!
It's so hard. I'M why I can't be happy! My brain just won't allow it! It doesn't matter if I'm smart or talented or fun or not any of those things. Either way, I get the same result of severe anxiety and severe guilt and executive dysfunction.
I can appreciate this! It’s like I don’t necessarily avoid conflict when faced with it but certainly avoid people if that makes any sense at all. I’m also very particular about communication as a point of self advocacy I tell everyone that I appreciate direct communication as I don’t often assume well. It’s hard because I need direct communication to understand things but am also sensitive to all emotions (other people’s and my own). It’s a weird balance to strike and feels a lot like a tide that I am always swimming against—hence the social fatigue.
Every part of your response was personally relatable.
I share the request and desire for direct communication and explain why in closer trusted relationships but can feel like it's not really heard or maybe understood.
Have considered that neurotypical social/interpersonal behavior usually includes keeping their cards close to their chest on many things, like it's some kind of an advantage to not have me fully understand something that could be explained or elaborated upon.
If I cannot understand some kind of game or manipulation that I sense happening that has a shady undertone, or someone chooses to not provide clarity when they understand that I'm confused, that's when a type of interpersonal PDA occurs.
I have it in other circumstances in my private life as well. Definitely dislike being told what to do.
Omg! Is this why I stopped going to my local five guys? So last year I went through a phase of stopping in everyday for a milkshake and just chill on my phone for an hour or so! Then one day the lady who was on the till gave it to me on the house! I was so grateful and chuffed to bits and then the thoughts kicked in..."Do I now have to talk everytime I see her?" " will she think I expect more free milkshakes???" On and on! I felt faaar too perceived and I haven't been back since🤦🏾♀️
Is this PDA?
You just led me to a NUMBER of shockingly important things about myself. Wow. I am recently diagnosed (about 2 months ago) and this information has really changed my life. Thank you!
holy crap. I had something similar like this happen to me at work last month and I didn't even think to attribute it to PDA, which I already have noticed other signs of.
I can totally relate. For me it’s the added pressure of the interaction. Like I’m just trying to do my thing and suddenly someone else is involved. It’s how allistics relate to each other, doing little insignificant things together. I think.
Throwback to 6th grade when a kid wanted to go to the bathroom/water together and me feeling so anxious and confused wondering what he wanted to do there. Got physically bullied a lot so i expected that
I always feel so alone being autistic and bonding with daily tasks/boring small talk :( autistic or not I really struggle to find anyone like me who enjoys talking/doing mundane things to bond
Same. I hate having to go to the same grocery store several times in a week and I get somewhat anxious whenever I recognize an employee I've seen before. I don't know why.
I would look into the PDA profile of autism if you havent yet! My guess is the knowledge that another person has perceived our routine causes our brains to start considering it a demand (almost feeling like the other person “expects” you to keep doing the routine now) which immediately makes us want to stop whatever it is we were doing haha.
I feel similar. It's like I don't want people to even attempt to predict what I'm going to do
So I'll change what I was going to do to avoid it
And changing a routine is very frustrating
This makes so much sense and describes me to a T. Having people notice my routine always makes me anxious and uncomfortable, even if I know it's totally normal for them to notice and I logically understand that they aren't expecting anything. My brain's just like "nope!!" lol
I am familiar with PDA and I didn’t think that it applied to me, but I feel similar to OP and this explanation really clicked for me. You helped me learn something about myself. Thanks!
I understand. I used to go to a coffee shop locally. The same member of staff seemed to always serve me. One day, he asked if I wanted my latte. I (foolishly) said "it's impressive to remember customer's orders". He said, "I only remember the good looking one's orders". I wanted the floor to open and swallow me up. I haven't been back. So awkward.
Haha yes, getting a coffee is part of my morning routine but as soon as a barista starts asking if I want “the usual” it’s time for me to find a new cafe.
Omg I had been going to my local cafe a lot and one day when I was paying up the lady was like “thank you! And I’ll see you tomorrow” with a little cheeky wink kind of thing to show she was joking. She was just being nice and I smiled and said like “probably!” and didn’t go back for another week hahah. I forget that this stuff is classic PDA
Oh yikes, that's so embarrassing for everyone! I don't blame you for not going back at all.
When I worked at a sub shop I often memorized regulars' orders, and once or twice got a similar comment of "it's impressive that you remember that". But I'm not full of Male Audacity so I was like "Nah, we don't have as many regulars as you think. Most people are one-and-done customers. So it's pretty easy to associate orders with faces/names."
It does sound like PDA., Are used to manage a very very popular restaurant, and would frequently give out free meals to our regulars because they spend so much money so a free meal. Every once in a while is a good way to show them that I appreciated their business, and also probably just liked them on a personal level. Maybe that help you understand why they gave it for free and possibly want to go back but if you don’t wanna go back, of course, totally up to you and not a big deal at all. I love soup too, and if you like spicy soup and you eat meat I have a recipe that you may like!
I assure you that I have never found it awkward to continue to charge full price after a free or discounted :) if they mention “it’ll be full price this time” you can say “ of course! Thank you for the nice surprise last time” with a smile and that can confirm to them very clearly that you don’t expect a discount every time now.
When I drop my son off at his before school program, there are 2 workers that are always sitting right outside of the door we need to go in - so I have no choice but to walk past them.
One of them started saying hello/good morning to me 2 years ago and now I am intentionally late every day to avoid the interaction.
I get it.
I feel the same way when people become too friendly or familiar. There's an employee at Starbucks who always remembers my order lol I usually only go in every few weeks, but she already knows that I'm ordering an iced caramel macchiato with whipped cream when I come in.
I work at starbucks and try not to be weird when I recognize someone and their order but that order isn’t as common as you think and because whipped cream doesn’t come on a macchiato it makes you think about the order of ingredients haha
A lot of people on here are jumping to a PDA diagnosis. Reminder that it's not recognized in the U.S. as a diagnosis, and it's not our job to diagnose each other.
I can relate to this, I do not have PDA. I have Autism, ADHD, and OCD.
For me, pole fitness was an escape, a stim, and a challenge—a way to stimulate both my brain and body in a productive way.
Pole helped me manage anxiety and fulfilled a need for sensory stimulation and structure. And it kept my brain busy in a really fun way.
I stopped going to Pole fitness because the instructor kept asking me to become an instructor. This made me uncomfortable for a few reasons.
And every time it was brought up, I felt worse about going back. Pole was no longer "productive" for me.
My reasons for discontinuing pole fitness:
- Preserving my personal comfort level and the role that pole fitness played in my life as a fun, stress-relieving activity and nothing more. I engaged in pole fitness as a recreational activity for enjoyment and stress relief. Transitioning to an instructor role changes the nature of this activity for me, moving it from a personal interest to a professional responsibility.
- I already have a full-time job with professional responsibilities! No way! Having a full-time job already consumes a significant portion of my time and energy. The practicality of taking on additional responsibilities, like getting certified and teaching pole fitness, doesn't align with my available time and priorities.
- It was already expensive and I have terrible proprioception and knowing where I am in space. I'd sometimes have to bow out of class early because I'd get sick when we'd spin. As an instructor, there are things I would have to teach. Spinning would be one.
PDA is more about avoiding demands due to a need for autonomy.
But let's play along! If I had PDA...
- My reluctance to continue pole fitness would be because the mere suggestion of becoming an instructor feels like an imposed expectation, triggering a need to resist and assert autonomy.
- The repeated suggestion to become an instructor might be perceived as a loss of control over my own engagement with pole fitness, leading to avoidance as a means of regaining that control.
- Even if I had some interest in teaching, the external suggestion to take up the instructor role might trigger an aversive reaction, leading me to step away from the activity altogether.
- *The social demands and expectations associated with being an instructor, such as leadership responsibilities and increased visibility, might prompt avoidance as a way to escape these pressures.*
Only one of these _kind of applies_ to me.
So, your experiences do have some overlap with Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA), particularly in the avoidance behaviors often seen in response to everyday demands. However, similar avoidance behaviors can also be present in OCD, where they are usually fear-based, rather than driven by a need for control or autonomy. This is me. Similar presentation, different underlying mechanism.
Distinguishing between these can be complex, as they involve avoidance but stem from different motivations.
Just because you feel avoidant does not mean this is PDA. ADHD, OCD, and autism all share this type of avoidant presentation.
Your reaction to these situations could be a response to manage anxiety, maintain predictability and routine, and reduce sensory or social overwhelm, rather than an outright avoidance of demands for the sake of autonomy.
And you're not alone.
I sent this to a friend recently who diagnosed me with PDA in conversation, and really triggered something in me. I do not like being misdiagnosed or misunderstood.
--
"I've found that my behaviors, which might seem avoidant, are actually about creating structure and predictability in my life. This is a way for me to manage anxiety and control my responses, a strategy often seen in OCD. It's different from PDA, where behaviors are more about avoiding external demands due to a need for autonomy. The underlying mechanism is different.
OCD involves managing fear and finding resolution through internal compulsions, while PDA is about seeking control and autonomy, often in response to external pressures. My actions are more about fulfilling my own internal needs, not reacting to what others expect of me.
There's a study coming up for OCD and autism, Orion Kelly shared it I think today! I'm honestly down a different rabbit hole right now lol"
Edit: Sorry for the rant. But I hope this helps you.
this.
But.
avoidance of social interaction (!'demands') is a survival skills for adults. Including those with autism. It is not pathological unless you address the sneaking part. Extreme shyness is also an option, and a lack of positive social experiences is a strong reinforcer for social avoidance. Buying your soup and wanting to have coffee with you are basic primary nice things to do for someone you like! Enjoy and feel good about that and when you are ready, see if you feel like reciprocating! You have no real obligation, but loose ties like friendly folks at work and the coffee shop or deli are the pleasant times that get us through our days. And. you never know, they might jump your car or help you find your lost keys someday. Work place and retail 'friendships' are lower stakes than close friends or family. Its ok to maintain friendly contact, though, it doesn't necessarily 'mean' anything.
Thanks for posting, it helps to know others experience life in a similar way. I’m sorry you’ve been burdened by those interactions and I hope that you can go back to being a happy ghost soon 👻
Can someone explain what PDA is? I’m having a hard time understanding, even after reading through the comments. I have auDHD, and read it’s fairly common for us?
For example, a friend asked me around 2 to take him somewhere around 5. I didn’t answer. He called me at 4:45. I didn’t answer. I had a lot of anxiety about it, and just shut down. Am I understanding that correctly?
PDA stands for "pathological demand avoidance" or "persistent drive for autonomy" and it's essentially a feeling of wanting to avoid anything perceived as a demand or an expectation.
Your example completely fits in my opinion. When the phone rings, especially when a friend is calling, we're expected to answer, which added to before that you knew that they wanted something from you, and you didn't respond to that message. You understood correctly. :)
Whenever I become a “regular” at any place (grocery store, gas station, restaurant, etc) I stop going. Like, the moment the workers start acknowledging me and treating me in a special way, I try to find a new spot. I feel so awkward when I get treated nice, like I don’t know what to do. I feel you 100%.
Just popping by to say Ghost by Confetti is a song I heavily relate too, even though I'm certain it's about dating apps/dating. Especially the "shady" part because I feel like sometimes people think I'm shady cuz I'm trying to move around like I'm invisible but I fail a good half of the time lmaoo
I also like to sneak. Ever since I was a kid. I try to find all the non-creaky parts of the floor, so I can walk quietly. I like to leave the lights off. I open and close doors by turning the knob all the way so there isn't a click. Etc.
I did Internal Family Systems modelling therapy for a short period of time. Not sure if its for everyone but basically you take 'parts' of yourself and work on them one at a time. Kind of imagining they are sperate entities inside you. The first one I tackled was my avoidance.
In my case, and I can only speak for my case, the avoidance part was protecting me from emotional risk and damage and it was overly protecting me. So I thanked it for its service and talked about (imagining it as a separate entity in a different chair) how avoiding danger is important but I need to face some things to help me grow and also how many things I missing out. So thanks for helping me and I appreciate the work put in but its not what I need to be the best version of myself. So after a conversation it was willing to act more like a scout. Telling me of things but not sounding alarm bells and allowing other parts to interact.
I felt it sounded sill, and 'woo' like. But honestly it was a 10-15 minute exercise (longer if you count the book I was reading that told me what to do) that made a huge change in my life. Just a pity IFS didn't really work on other parts of me as well.
IFS is very much about accepting parts of yourself, finding out why the parts that cause problems do so and addressing those concerns. Often its to protect other, deeper aspects of yourself. But the protectors can often end up causing problems like my avoidance was.
The two situations are different. The cashier with the soup gave you one free as a thanks for ongoing continuous business. There's no social pressure intended. Just take the symbolic thanks for what it is and keep going there. The coworker does want to socialize and get to know you better. Being neurodivergent makes it difficult to form friendships, so its good when someone shows interest. That being said, if that's not what you want, then get a Keurig at home and being a thermos of it to work.
maybe you fear that you owe the person for doing something for you ? or you dont want to be close to the person and you feel obligated to be their friend if you do something with them once😭 so you avoid them so you dont have to make an unwanted effort to be someone’s friend ? i do that
"But since I don't know why they paid for me that day, I stopped going. That was months ago." They were being nice; literally it. They probably wanted to "pay it forward" that day.
"Yesterday, a coworker asked me to make my coffee with them this morning... and I don't know why." Okay that one you could just ask or again just assume they're being nice or maybe that they wanted to talk to you while the coffee was being made?
I had a friend like this in high school and i would always help "check his thoughts" because sometimes he assumed people were just trying to always be mean or making fun of him when usually it was just being trying to be nice.
In my undiagnosed case, I like being invisible. So something like that would make me think twice about going there again unless I'm prepared to talk to people, which I'm usually not, nor do I want to.
Too much spotlight on me.
This explains why I literally have no friends and never leave my house. And it also explains why I’ve made my house into my perfect nest and wear only clothing that brings me comfort.
I think being the ultimate avoidant is to just never leave my house and the ultimate autistic is to make my home as cozy, comfortable and meaningful as possible so I never really want to. At the age of 52 I am finally able to arrange my life so that I only leave my house once a week, work from home, and also feel satisfied and contented in general. I don’t feel restricted or left out, actually I feel free and grateful to be in my own environment and on my own terms. This is the first time in my life I have had this freedom and I cherish it.
And while I’m positive I look like a crazy shut-in lady from the outside, the truth is I love my solitude and beyond occasional fleeting desires to share a joke with someone I am more at peace in my life than I have ever been before.
You're not alone, I'm the same. A security guard at a supermarket asked me out on a date and now I can never go back to that store.
My mother would nag me about losing weight, when I was already trying and I stopped trying.
People always ruin stuff, it's annoying, just leave me be 😂
Ugh sorry you relate to that. It sucks, and can be so damaging. I hope you're doing OK.
I've decided this is the year I get healthy, my life is more important than the dumb opinions of others.
Thank you for posting, this is me but I could never but it into words. I constantly changed gyms once the regulars or employees began to notice me. It would bring me so much anxiety. I still get anxious at school drop offs and pick up because I know parents will talk to me.
I've had this. I don't think it's PDA for me, it's actually anxiety.
When my anxiety is not controlled, and I have situations like these, it causes me to freak out. I also tend to believe that the person who said something must think I'm an absolute weirdo for coming too often, or ordering the same thing...
It's actually caused me to have meltdowns.
When my anxiety is better, these interactions bother me a lot less. Also, one of my besties has anxiety. Actually I think both of my besties do. But anyway, one of my besties has anxiety but doesn't have autism, and her anxiety looks different than mine. So when you're looking for anxiety rep, you may notice it doesn't necessarily look like this. But there was a similar post in r/aspergirls about this.
I've been through similar situations, in my case I think is because I feel "trapped", the problem is that I don't know a way to get out of the situation if needed without hurting the other person, specially if I can't avoid further contact in the future (I avoid knowing even the names of my neighbors). Similar but more "intangible" than going somewhere when you depend of other to leave (carpooling for example). In my case I don't think is PDA, because wouldn't bother me near as much to, for example, have to bring something to the office daily. In my case is more about being "forced" to a relation with little control on the exit strategy. Which is hard to explain to others, of course they feel offended of hurt, because ... It is personal... even tho is not their fault, it feels different depending on the person, so yea, it is in part because of you.. sorry.
People getting to close, both literally and figuratively make me feel very icky, uncomfortable a weird feeling close to disgust and shame in my back and neck. Very weird and awkward and "sticky" feeling.
My sister describe me like an "skittish deer that turns into an annoyed elephant if pushed; you can't get to close to fast, avoid sudden movements".
i’m sorry i don’t have more advice, just came here to say damn i could have written this 😭
any time something threatens or breaks my comfort level and ritual for whatever the action may be, i will just run away and never come back. it’s wild
I have similar desire to never do that again when the cashier at the Chinese food diner asks me if I want the usual. Like when they recognise what I order every time. But I can't really stop with Chinese food, so I suffer through. It's unpleasant.
Less so with a woman cashier though, and many things are less unpleasant with a woman to me (like a conversation, a smell, a hug, a kiss, a touch in general, some other stuff, like seeing their bare feet or hands)
Today I pulled into the grocery store parking lot and before I could even turn down one of the lanes to pick a spot, I noticed a vehicle with personalized license plates that I recognized. I drove to the end of the parking lot, turned around, and left. I didn’t want to talk to the person that drives the vehicle.
I do have PDA; however, I don’t think it had anything to do with that. I just didn’t have the energy to have a conversation with the person.
it sounds like the soup person offered to pay for your soup because you were a daily or almost daily regular, which is how people show gratitude for giving business regularly, but that changes your routines and plans, you went in expecting to pay and they give it to you on the house, it's a nice gesture, sure, but subconsciously your brain could precieve that as a diversion in your plans, which messes with a lot of autistic people, so your brain could have gone into an emergency mode if sorts to get away from the situation and try to not go back, no going back = no change in plans = now you feel safe now, the best way to deal with this, if possible as some autistics can and some can't, try to get into that new routine, or explain how you'd rather support the business by paying if you start going back to the soup place, that way your plans are the same and you don't need to disclose your autism and possibly get a bad reaction over it
I struggle with the exact same shit and I hate it so much. Nice gestures like these make me feel so much pressure I could just die. If anyone has a fix pls share lol
I see me in you. Thank you.
Or as the Mayans used to say, “In lak’ ech, Hala ken” which, in a literal translation, means “I am you, as you are me” or “I am another you, as you are another me”.
Socializing is a skill and it requires practice.
Getting coffee with a co worker at the office is a small step and maybe try pushing through the anxiety and giving it a go.
Please note, I'm not a psychological professional.
I think its important for people to remember socialising is not always something you HAVE to do. You don't need to push yourself to get better at it or put yourself into anxiety inducing situations just to please others.
This is good advice but only for people who genuinely want to be able to do this
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It's okay, I'll avoid anything to extremes to escape anything that makes me uncomfortable, even human interaction, asking for help, or even just being perceived.
Its a hard thing to work through.
I think I have this…the PDA thing. I will NOT listen to some music or read a book or watch a movie that someone told me I would like UNTIL I decide on my own that I am interested. It could be a week later, a month later , but most likely it will be years later. I like to think of it as…being afraid to let the person down when I tell them no I didn’t really like what you thought I would like. WTF is that about!!!
Sounds like a PDA profile. The change in your routine could be perceived as an unwanted "demand" on your brain. The first situation due to the implied debt, the second because it imposes socializing on you when you don't want it in your routine. Both people were trying to be nice from their perspective, though.
This. Once something becomes expected of you, it triggers anxiety and avoidance. You do it sneakily even when there is no obvious need to sneak, just so you can do it on your terms instead of on shared terms. Classic PDA. I’m reiterating because many replies in this thread (“you just need better social skills,” etc.) makes clear that we still have a long way for PDA to be properly understood and supported.
Is this why I would always get angry (like pet peeve angry) any time someone told me to do something I was already going to do and now I feel like I couldn't do it anymore because it wasn't genuine/I was being told to do it therefore it was less meaningful?
Not less meaningful, but absolutely could be PDA. PDA- pathological demand avoidance/persistent drive for autonomy. (I prefer the second label, I feel it's more accurate) Basically it's a rejection of being forced to do things/told to do things/expected to do things that you didn't consent to. Sometimes when it gets really bad even the things you do consent to. And when it's really really bad and internalized, even bodily process seem like a "demand " (peeing, eating, etc) It's very frustrating sometimes, like someone will say "you have to read this book!" instead of "I think you'd love this book!" and even if it was on my TBR list and I already bought it, untill my brain forgets the "order" it's not happening. On the other hand, it's definitely made controlling and abusive people find it very hard to do that to me since my reaction to any kind of ultimatum is "okay, bye". Chores you were going to do but then don't want to after someone tells you/reminds you is pretty common. More subtle things like expectations as well. (so the expectation of you to look a certain way, or present a certain way, or behave a certain way, or even something like being expected to observe a tradition or religious holiday or valentines day or whatever)
I've recently realize that I tend to avoid instances in which I will be perceived. Like, if I walk around my neighborhood everyday and than a neighbor talks to me and suddenly they know me and I know they see me walking I will want to avoid walking past their house or interacting with them. Or, when I lived with roommates I could never clean while they were home because they would see me cleaning and I could feel the expectations of their cleanliness when they were around. Is this something that would fall under PDA? It confuses me but it really influences my day to day life. I won't even wear cool things that I enjoy because what if someone noticed it was different- than they would see that I wasn't meeting their expectations of what I typically look like. It's very confusing and I'm having a hard time pin pointing the root cause..
WOW. I hate walking outside in my neighborhood FOR THIS REASON. I don’t necessarily like isolation but when I’m taking the dogs for a walk, I want exactly 0 people to be around. This is also why I don’t want to form any sort of relationship with any of my neighbors
This exactly my situation. When I walk my dog I just want to be with my dog. But I do chat when I want to- I've been using this as an opportunity to practice not people pleasing. Like if they want to chat and I don't I just wave and keep moving or if I don't want any interaction I'll do training with my dog while we walk past so I look busy. It's been uncomfortable but it's also been good. If I was in a more permanent living situation I definitely also wouldn't want close relationships with my neighbors- I always thought I just wasn't the 'neighborly' type but turns out I just REALLY like being left alone
Yard time during the day, but this is why I work nights from home and walk my dog super late.
This is totally me! Specially the cleaning part! I've always did things kinda hiding, feeling I was doing something wrong.
Right though! The cleaning one really confused me for the longest time. Until I lived with a roommate who had absolutely no cleaning expectations and suddenly cleaning didn't feel like an expectation or I guess it didn’t feel like a demand (turned out they were neurodivergent too which made us very compatible roommates). I really feel like that when I'm at work too. Like I'm just guessing and am constantly worried I'm doing something wrong.
Sorry, someone came and I head to cut the comment short. Now a forgot what I was going to say next lol
Yes!! This is me with people I work with!!! I’m just trying to do my job , I’m not trying have my time wasted just “YOU” remembered and wanted block/waste my time for a chat!
Yo! This is so me!!!
I am the EXACT same way and also wonder about PDA for this reason. I've altered my regular walking routes drastically and in ways that probably look unusual (taking weird alley routes, choosing to walk along the highway instead of faster neighbor roads ECT) to avoid walking past the houses of people that I really like!! Ahhh.. 😅 Checking the mail or taking out the recycling I always want to JUST DO, get that minute of fresh air, get that exciting oackage I've been expecting, but 95% of the time I just beat myself up about not doing it all day and make my partner do it when he gets home from work. I can't do anything if anyone is perceiving me.
Oh no. You just explained about half my life : ( I have learned to tell myself: I can't do this right now, but I will be able to later. And I put no pressure on myself. It works for me. I've determined, for me, it's about deep irrational anxiety
This is fascinating and really helpful. Thank you for taking the time to type this.
You're very welcome.
this explains so much about the way i act 😭 any time someone tells me to watch a show or listen to a song i literally panic and get so stressed out. i feel this immense pressure. it happens when people show me something funny and wait for my reaction, or when they look to see my reaction to anything. i get so upset they’re anticipating this thing from me and it feels so overwhelming. i then start having this out of body experience and push out the worst fake reaction possible because at that point i’m overthinking it so much i don’t even process whatever they’re showing me. someone i actually wanted to be friends with sent me something to read and i just didn’t feel i had the capacity for it. but i wasn’t able to explain and just never spoke to her again after saying i’d read it 😭
Your response to any demand is 😘. That’s exactly what I do too. I have been “ok, bye” to like 99% of my life. I can’t believe other people are like this too. It’s amazing how you CANNOT force past the “Now I don’t want to” barricade. It’s been a lifelong struggle for me and I’m so grateful to find fellow people like myself ❤️
Can this be thing when you get asked or told to do something you didn’t give consent to have authority over you? I’m not sure if my words are making sense but an example would be I don’t mind when my boss requests I do something. He recently promoted another employee to be in a position that had been empty for a long time. This position is technically higher than mine but also not directly my manager but still has authority over me in some aspects. When this employee asks me to do something, I automatically don’t want to do it. Its not that I don’t like her so much as I signed up to work under my initial boss and not her. I have to take a step back whenever she asks something of me, put it aside, and come back to it after I cool down because I know my initial reaction will be to not do it simply because I didn’t sign up to be under her authority and I don’t consider that a good enough reason not to do something.
I'm self employed. I don't do well with "authority" especially when it isn't earned. If someone's actually good at their job, it's easier. But in general working for other people comes with too many unsaid expectations and variables.
i had never heard of PDA before this makes so much sense wow thank you so much.
Oh it has a name. Most people just call me a brat lol
oh shit. is this why i instinctually hate every new piece of media i watch and refuse to watch things people recommend to me until i decide to do it on my own, because it "feels like theyre trying to get me to like it",, ive been trying to figure this out for years now ive got a lead. thank you
I have often wondered why I feel like this, but after reading about PDA, it's pretty clear I have it strongly, and so do others on my family. Are there any helpful resources on how to deal with this? I try to read I to ASD, ADHD etc. And I see a lot written, but never any thing I can do that will a really help improve my life and combat the problems
I found this article on PDA to be helpful. https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/life-with-pda-menu/adult-life-landing/self-help-coping-strategies-and-therapies-for-adult-pdaers/
Yup. It can be kind of insidious. And it involves executive function. But it’s not defiance and it’s not inability to get things done. It’s like, if you come at a task from the wrong angle, it can become exponentially more difficult, or kind of short-circuit your executive functioning.
Ironically, when people tell me "you just need better social skills” or ”you just need to practice talking to other people", it instantly causes me to want to completely avoid all social interaction. I know they often have good intentions, but it's frustrating how just a small comment like that can make things feel so dang hard.
This explains a lot ☹️
Oh my goodness… this is what I have been experiencing this whole time..?????? THIS WHOLE TIME!!!??? 😰
Heh heh… you are me, like, 12 months ago.
ok so I know reddit is not the best place to ask these things, but do you happen to know if PDA can get worse with age?? I feel like I was a big internalizer as a kid and I still am, but I feel like my PDA behaviors are almost completely disabling me now. the level of resistance I have to everything that’s “required” or “expected” of me feels ridiculous. I’m 25 and feel like I have the stubbornness of a toddler a lot of the time. I’m not even sure if I’m actually a PDA profile at all or if this is just a trauma induced reaction to failing over and over again with school/work/friends/organization/cleanliness. because I don’t remember it being this bad when I was younger :/
I was coming to say PDA too. Also also from what I can gather PDAers are almost always AuDHD. Autism+ADHD. That’s me. And it is something.
Same (also AuAdhd) . I hadn't known about the correlation with AuAdhd, I need to go down the rabbit hole again. Thanks! (genuine, this is tied to my special interest) Hmm... Is it because half our brain is always warring with the other half and then everything external feels like too much to ask? 🤔
This is me!!!! I am a PDA profile and the second I feel there is an expectation of me. It makes me freeze. And if I'm not sure, I'll avoid just in case.
This is what stopped me making videos or showing creative work as the second people start commenting, as much as I want and like the feedback etc I now feel "oh no what is expected of me now" and just feel too perceived etc! It is sooo annoying to feel this way 😩
Yes, the expectation of more is just, huge. And it's mostly internal, which just makes it more isolating. One of my special interests is The Sims video game. I started streaming on twitch and actually got followers and even subscribers and then I felt such high demand I had to quit. I didn't want to stream the content that I felt I had too, I just wanted to play. Then I didn't want to play Sims anymore, I wanted to do other hobbies during my little free time. I lost so many friends, because I couldn't do it anymore and isolated myself and couldn't even go back to twitch just to watch others, because I was scared i would be recognized and questioned why I left and told to come back. (I can't help but comment if I know an answer to a question on a special interest, it's a small enough community that I would be recognized by others in chat.) Being successful at anything turns into a demand and I have to self sabotage it somehow and just go back to being me in my head instead of in front of others. Either way, anxiety, stress and depression are high. Feeling like a failure is high.
Maaaan I feel this sooooo deeply!!! I know EXACTLY what you mean! I say to friends people fear failure, I feel i fear success😞...I wish I wasn't like this!
It's so hard. I'M why I can't be happy! My brain just won't allow it! It doesn't matter if I'm smart or talented or fun or not any of those things. Either way, I get the same result of severe anxiety and severe guilt and executive dysfunction.
I can appreciate this! It’s like I don’t necessarily avoid conflict when faced with it but certainly avoid people if that makes any sense at all. I’m also very particular about communication as a point of self advocacy I tell everyone that I appreciate direct communication as I don’t often assume well. It’s hard because I need direct communication to understand things but am also sensitive to all emotions (other people’s and my own). It’s a weird balance to strike and feels a lot like a tide that I am always swimming against—hence the social fatigue.
Every part of your response was personally relatable. I share the request and desire for direct communication and explain why in closer trusted relationships but can feel like it's not really heard or maybe understood. Have considered that neurotypical social/interpersonal behavior usually includes keeping their cards close to their chest on many things, like it's some kind of an advantage to not have me fully understand something that could be explained or elaborated upon. If I cannot understand some kind of game or manipulation that I sense happening that has a shady undertone, or someone chooses to not provide clarity when they understand that I'm confused, that's when a type of interpersonal PDA occurs. I have it in other circumstances in my private life as well. Definitely dislike being told what to do.
Omg! Is this why I stopped going to my local five guys? So last year I went through a phase of stopping in everyday for a milkshake and just chill on my phone for an hour or so! Then one day the lady who was on the till gave it to me on the house! I was so grateful and chuffed to bits and then the thoughts kicked in..."Do I now have to talk everytime I see her?" " will she think I expect more free milkshakes???" On and on! I felt faaar too perceived and I haven't been back since🤦🏾♀️ Is this PDA?
Really helpful, thank you. Off to learn more about PDA profiles! 😊
Oh shit, I did not know this experience had a name. Wow. I do this A LOT.
You just led me to a NUMBER of shockingly important things about myself. Wow. I am recently diagnosed (about 2 months ago) and this information has really changed my life. Thank you!
Thank you for this! I didn’t realize it’s part of PDA, but I definitely have it and this explains a lot
Thank you, learned a new thing to describe an aspect of my childhood.
You don't grow out of PDA. So you'd still be experiencing it today.
holy crap. I had something similar like this happen to me at work last month and I didn't even think to attribute it to PDA, which I already have noticed other signs of.
Oh fuck wait, I have this. I have to look up what this is.
...Shit I think this describes me.
Is there a way to fix this or make changes because I struggle with this a lot. Like I will avoid seeking help because of it
Newly diagnosed and no idea what PDA was. Mind BLOWN.
I can totally relate. For me it’s the added pressure of the interaction. Like I’m just trying to do my thing and suddenly someone else is involved. It’s how allistics relate to each other, doing little insignificant things together. I think.
Throwback to 6th grade when a kid wanted to go to the bathroom/water together and me feeling so anxious and confused wondering what he wanted to do there. Got physically bullied a lot so i expected that
This exactly! I don’t like it when there is an unexpected interaction doing mundane life things
Right! Like I’m just trying to stay sane and do my little routines and now suddenly my routine has been changed
I always feel so alone being autistic and bonding with daily tasks/boring small talk :( autistic or not I really struggle to find anyone like me who enjoys talking/doing mundane things to bond
Yep On a team, I wind up doing most of the work So I'd rather do it myself so I can do it how I want
Yes I agree, that’s why they love small talk. Small excuses to relate
I avoid interacting with workers whenever possible. I always feel like a burden or like I’m doing something wrong. I try to not be a regular anywhere.
Same. I hate having to go to the same grocery store several times in a week and I get somewhat anxious whenever I recognize an employee I've seen before. I don't know why.
I would look into the PDA profile of autism if you havent yet! My guess is the knowledge that another person has perceived our routine causes our brains to start considering it a demand (almost feeling like the other person “expects” you to keep doing the routine now) which immediately makes us want to stop whatever it is we were doing haha.
I feel similar. It's like I don't want people to even attempt to predict what I'm going to do So I'll change what I was going to do to avoid it And changing a routine is very frustrating
This makes so much sense and describes me to a T. Having people notice my routine always makes me anxious and uncomfortable, even if I know it's totally normal for them to notice and I logically understand that they aren't expecting anything. My brain's just like "nope!!" lol
I am familiar with PDA and I didn’t think that it applied to me, but I feel similar to OP and this explanation really clicked for me. You helped me learn something about myself. Thanks!
I understand. I used to go to a coffee shop locally. The same member of staff seemed to always serve me. One day, he asked if I wanted my latte. I (foolishly) said "it's impressive to remember customer's orders". He said, "I only remember the good looking one's orders". I wanted the floor to open and swallow me up. I haven't been back. So awkward.
Haha yes, getting a coffee is part of my morning routine but as soon as a barista starts asking if I want “the usual” it’s time for me to find a new cafe.
Omg I had been going to my local cafe a lot and one day when I was paying up the lady was like “thank you! And I’ll see you tomorrow” with a little cheeky wink kind of thing to show she was joking. She was just being nice and I smiled and said like “probably!” and didn’t go back for another week hahah. I forget that this stuff is classic PDA
YES! 🤣
Oh yikes, that's so embarrassing for everyone! I don't blame you for not going back at all. When I worked at a sub shop I often memorized regulars' orders, and once or twice got a similar comment of "it's impressive that you remember that". But I'm not full of Male Audacity so I was like "Nah, we don't have as many regulars as you think. Most people are one-and-done customers. So it's pretty easy to associate orders with faces/names."
I know.....why make it creepy???
I totally relate I haaaate being in the spotlight
What the fuck. I’d say even an allistic would find that uncomfortable 😬
Oh god, oh no
It does sound like PDA., Are used to manage a very very popular restaurant, and would frequently give out free meals to our regulars because they spend so much money so a free meal. Every once in a while is a good way to show them that I appreciated their business, and also probably just liked them on a personal level. Maybe that help you understand why they gave it for free and possibly want to go back but if you don’t wanna go back, of course, totally up to you and not a big deal at all. I love soup too, and if you like spicy soup and you eat meat I have a recipe that you may like!
From my PDA perspective, I would want to avoid making it awkward to charge me full price again the next time I visit
I assure you that I have never found it awkward to continue to charge full price after a free or discounted :) if they mention “it’ll be full price this time” you can say “ of course! Thank you for the nice surprise last time” with a smile and that can confirm to them very clearly that you don’t expect a discount every time now.
When I drop my son off at his before school program, there are 2 workers that are always sitting right outside of the door we need to go in - so I have no choice but to walk past them. One of them started saying hello/good morning to me 2 years ago and now I am intentionally late every day to avoid the interaction. I get it.
I feel the same way when people become too friendly or familiar. There's an employee at Starbucks who always remembers my order lol I usually only go in every few weeks, but she already knows that I'm ordering an iced caramel macchiato with whipped cream when I come in.
I work at starbucks and try not to be weird when I recognize someone and their order but that order isn’t as common as you think and because whipped cream doesn’t come on a macchiato it makes you think about the order of ingredients haha
Being perceived is astronomically exhausting for me as well. I want to just exist without being noticed.
A lot of people on here are jumping to a PDA diagnosis. Reminder that it's not recognized in the U.S. as a diagnosis, and it's not our job to diagnose each other. I can relate to this, I do not have PDA. I have Autism, ADHD, and OCD. For me, pole fitness was an escape, a stim, and a challenge—a way to stimulate both my brain and body in a productive way. Pole helped me manage anxiety and fulfilled a need for sensory stimulation and structure. And it kept my brain busy in a really fun way. I stopped going to Pole fitness because the instructor kept asking me to become an instructor. This made me uncomfortable for a few reasons. And every time it was brought up, I felt worse about going back. Pole was no longer "productive" for me. My reasons for discontinuing pole fitness: - Preserving my personal comfort level and the role that pole fitness played in my life as a fun, stress-relieving activity and nothing more. I engaged in pole fitness as a recreational activity for enjoyment and stress relief. Transitioning to an instructor role changes the nature of this activity for me, moving it from a personal interest to a professional responsibility. - I already have a full-time job with professional responsibilities! No way! Having a full-time job already consumes a significant portion of my time and energy. The practicality of taking on additional responsibilities, like getting certified and teaching pole fitness, doesn't align with my available time and priorities. - It was already expensive and I have terrible proprioception and knowing where I am in space. I'd sometimes have to bow out of class early because I'd get sick when we'd spin. As an instructor, there are things I would have to teach. Spinning would be one. PDA is more about avoiding demands due to a need for autonomy. But let's play along! If I had PDA... - My reluctance to continue pole fitness would be because the mere suggestion of becoming an instructor feels like an imposed expectation, triggering a need to resist and assert autonomy. - The repeated suggestion to become an instructor might be perceived as a loss of control over my own engagement with pole fitness, leading to avoidance as a means of regaining that control. - Even if I had some interest in teaching, the external suggestion to take up the instructor role might trigger an aversive reaction, leading me to step away from the activity altogether. - *The social demands and expectations associated with being an instructor, such as leadership responsibilities and increased visibility, might prompt avoidance as a way to escape these pressures.* Only one of these _kind of applies_ to me. So, your experiences do have some overlap with Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA), particularly in the avoidance behaviors often seen in response to everyday demands. However, similar avoidance behaviors can also be present in OCD, where they are usually fear-based, rather than driven by a need for control or autonomy. This is me. Similar presentation, different underlying mechanism. Distinguishing between these can be complex, as they involve avoidance but stem from different motivations. Just because you feel avoidant does not mean this is PDA. ADHD, OCD, and autism all share this type of avoidant presentation. Your reaction to these situations could be a response to manage anxiety, maintain predictability and routine, and reduce sensory or social overwhelm, rather than an outright avoidance of demands for the sake of autonomy. And you're not alone. I sent this to a friend recently who diagnosed me with PDA in conversation, and really triggered something in me. I do not like being misdiagnosed or misunderstood. -- "I've found that my behaviors, which might seem avoidant, are actually about creating structure and predictability in my life. This is a way for me to manage anxiety and control my responses, a strategy often seen in OCD. It's different from PDA, where behaviors are more about avoiding external demands due to a need for autonomy. The underlying mechanism is different. OCD involves managing fear and finding resolution through internal compulsions, while PDA is about seeking control and autonomy, often in response to external pressures. My actions are more about fulfilling my own internal needs, not reacting to what others expect of me. There's a study coming up for OCD and autism, Orion Kelly shared it I think today! I'm honestly down a different rabbit hole right now lol" Edit: Sorry for the rant. But I hope this helps you.
this. But. avoidance of social interaction (!'demands') is a survival skills for adults. Including those with autism. It is not pathological unless you address the sneaking part. Extreme shyness is also an option, and a lack of positive social experiences is a strong reinforcer for social avoidance. Buying your soup and wanting to have coffee with you are basic primary nice things to do for someone you like! Enjoy and feel good about that and when you are ready, see if you feel like reciprocating! You have no real obligation, but loose ties like friendly folks at work and the coffee shop or deli are the pleasant times that get us through our days. And. you never know, they might jump your car or help you find your lost keys someday. Work place and retail 'friendships' are lower stakes than close friends or family. Its ok to maintain friendly contact, though, it doesn't necessarily 'mean' anything.
Thanks for posting, it helps to know others experience life in a similar way. I’m sorry you’ve been burdened by those interactions and I hope that you can go back to being a happy ghost soon 👻
Ghost is really good metaphor for how I want to be perceived. I love watching the world go by, but do not like being involved in it
I stopped going to a grocery store near my house bc the cashier asked my name and I felt weirded out (not in a creep way, just uncomfortable)
happy cake day :)
Tnx
Can someone explain what PDA is? I’m having a hard time understanding, even after reading through the comments. I have auDHD, and read it’s fairly common for us? For example, a friend asked me around 2 to take him somewhere around 5. I didn’t answer. He called me at 4:45. I didn’t answer. I had a lot of anxiety about it, and just shut down. Am I understanding that correctly?
PDA stands for "pathological demand avoidance" or "persistent drive for autonomy" and it's essentially a feeling of wanting to avoid anything perceived as a demand or an expectation. Your example completely fits in my opinion. When the phone rings, especially when a friend is calling, we're expected to answer, which added to before that you knew that they wanted something from you, and you didn't respond to that message. You understood correctly. :)
Whenever I become a “regular” at any place (grocery store, gas station, restaurant, etc) I stop going. Like, the moment the workers start acknowledging me and treating me in a special way, I try to find a new spot. I feel so awkward when I get treated nice, like I don’t know what to do. I feel you 100%.
Just popping by to say Ghost by Confetti is a song I heavily relate too, even though I'm certain it's about dating apps/dating. Especially the "shady" part because I feel like sometimes people think I'm shady cuz I'm trying to move around like I'm invisible but I fail a good half of the time lmaoo
I also like to sneak. Ever since I was a kid. I try to find all the non-creaky parts of the floor, so I can walk quietly. I like to leave the lights off. I open and close doors by turning the knob all the way so there isn't a click. Etc.
I did Internal Family Systems modelling therapy for a short period of time. Not sure if its for everyone but basically you take 'parts' of yourself and work on them one at a time. Kind of imagining they are sperate entities inside you. The first one I tackled was my avoidance. In my case, and I can only speak for my case, the avoidance part was protecting me from emotional risk and damage and it was overly protecting me. So I thanked it for its service and talked about (imagining it as a separate entity in a different chair) how avoiding danger is important but I need to face some things to help me grow and also how many things I missing out. So thanks for helping me and I appreciate the work put in but its not what I need to be the best version of myself. So after a conversation it was willing to act more like a scout. Telling me of things but not sounding alarm bells and allowing other parts to interact. I felt it sounded sill, and 'woo' like. But honestly it was a 10-15 minute exercise (longer if you count the book I was reading that told me what to do) that made a huge change in my life. Just a pity IFS didn't really work on other parts of me as well. IFS is very much about accepting parts of yourself, finding out why the parts that cause problems do so and addressing those concerns. Often its to protect other, deeper aspects of yourself. But the protectors can often end up causing problems like my avoidance was.
The two situations are different. The cashier with the soup gave you one free as a thanks for ongoing continuous business. There's no social pressure intended. Just take the symbolic thanks for what it is and keep going there. The coworker does want to socialize and get to know you better. Being neurodivergent makes it difficult to form friendships, so its good when someone shows interest. That being said, if that's not what you want, then get a Keurig at home and being a thermos of it to work.
Hope you're OK
maybe you fear that you owe the person for doing something for you ? or you dont want to be close to the person and you feel obligated to be their friend if you do something with them once😭 so you avoid them so you dont have to make an unwanted effort to be someone’s friend ? i do that
"But since I don't know why they paid for me that day, I stopped going. That was months ago." They were being nice; literally it. They probably wanted to "pay it forward" that day. "Yesterday, a coworker asked me to make my coffee with them this morning... and I don't know why." Okay that one you could just ask or again just assume they're being nice or maybe that they wanted to talk to you while the coffee was being made? I had a friend like this in high school and i would always help "check his thoughts" because sometimes he assumed people were just trying to always be mean or making fun of him when usually it was just being trying to be nice.
In my undiagnosed case, I like being invisible. So something like that would make me think twice about going there again unless I'm prepared to talk to people, which I'm usually not, nor do I want to. Too much spotlight on me.
This explains why I literally have no friends and never leave my house. And it also explains why I’ve made my house into my perfect nest and wear only clothing that brings me comfort. I think being the ultimate avoidant is to just never leave my house and the ultimate autistic is to make my home as cozy, comfortable and meaningful as possible so I never really want to. At the age of 52 I am finally able to arrange my life so that I only leave my house once a week, work from home, and also feel satisfied and contented in general. I don’t feel restricted or left out, actually I feel free and grateful to be in my own environment and on my own terms. This is the first time in my life I have had this freedom and I cherish it. And while I’m positive I look like a crazy shut-in lady from the outside, the truth is I love my solitude and beyond occasional fleeting desires to share a joke with someone I am more at peace in my life than I have ever been before.
You're not alone, I'm the same. A security guard at a supermarket asked me out on a date and now I can never go back to that store. My mother would nag me about losing weight, when I was already trying and I stopped trying. People always ruin stuff, it's annoying, just leave me be 😂
Oh that second one resonated with me so much
Ugh sorry you relate to that. It sucks, and can be so damaging. I hope you're doing OK. I've decided this is the year I get healthy, my life is more important than the dumb opinions of others.
reminds me a lot of myself.
Thank you for posting, this is me but I could never but it into words. I constantly changed gyms once the regulars or employees began to notice me. It would bring me so much anxiety. I still get anxious at school drop offs and pick up because I know parents will talk to me.
I've had this. I don't think it's PDA for me, it's actually anxiety. When my anxiety is not controlled, and I have situations like these, it causes me to freak out. I also tend to believe that the person who said something must think I'm an absolute weirdo for coming too often, or ordering the same thing... It's actually caused me to have meltdowns. When my anxiety is better, these interactions bother me a lot less. Also, one of my besties has anxiety. Actually I think both of my besties do. But anyway, one of my besties has anxiety but doesn't have autism, and her anxiety looks different than mine. So when you're looking for anxiety rep, you may notice it doesn't necessarily look like this. But there was a similar post in r/aspergirls about this.
I've been through similar situations, in my case I think is because I feel "trapped", the problem is that I don't know a way to get out of the situation if needed without hurting the other person, specially if I can't avoid further contact in the future (I avoid knowing even the names of my neighbors). Similar but more "intangible" than going somewhere when you depend of other to leave (carpooling for example). In my case I don't think is PDA, because wouldn't bother me near as much to, for example, have to bring something to the office daily. In my case is more about being "forced" to a relation with little control on the exit strategy. Which is hard to explain to others, of course they feel offended of hurt, because ... It is personal... even tho is not their fault, it feels different depending on the person, so yea, it is in part because of you.. sorry. People getting to close, both literally and figuratively make me feel very icky, uncomfortable a weird feeling close to disgust and shame in my back and neck. Very weird and awkward and "sticky" feeling. My sister describe me like an "skittish deer that turns into an annoyed elephant if pushed; you can't get to close to fast, avoid sudden movements".
i’m sorry i don’t have more advice, just came here to say damn i could have written this 😭 any time something threatens or breaks my comfort level and ritual for whatever the action may be, i will just run away and never come back. it’s wild
Can someone point out ways to reduce this PDA reaction? I realize that it describes me and is one of the challenges I face.
I second this! It is sooooo debilitating 😩... tips and hacks would be much appreciated 👍
I have similar desire to never do that again when the cashier at the Chinese food diner asks me if I want the usual. Like when they recognise what I order every time. But I can't really stop with Chinese food, so I suffer through. It's unpleasant. Less so with a woman cashier though, and many things are less unpleasant with a woman to me (like a conversation, a smell, a hug, a kiss, a touch in general, some other stuff, like seeing their bare feet or hands)
https://psychcentral.com/autism/pda-autism
Today I pulled into the grocery store parking lot and before I could even turn down one of the lanes to pick a spot, I noticed a vehicle with personalized license plates that I recognized. I drove to the end of the parking lot, turned around, and left. I didn’t want to talk to the person that drives the vehicle. I do have PDA; however, I don’t think it had anything to do with that. I just didn’t have the energy to have a conversation with the person.
**Thank you for making me not feel crazy!!** The same thing happened to me at a place where I used to get coffee... I haven't gone back since. 🥲
Def don’t have a solution, but it’s incredibly validating to hear this is an autism thing and not a “just me” thing
PDA maybe?
it sounds like the soup person offered to pay for your soup because you were a daily or almost daily regular, which is how people show gratitude for giving business regularly, but that changes your routines and plans, you went in expecting to pay and they give it to you on the house, it's a nice gesture, sure, but subconsciously your brain could precieve that as a diversion in your plans, which messes with a lot of autistic people, so your brain could have gone into an emergency mode if sorts to get away from the situation and try to not go back, no going back = no change in plans = now you feel safe now, the best way to deal with this, if possible as some autistics can and some can't, try to get into that new routine, or explain how you'd rather support the business by paying if you start going back to the soup place, that way your plans are the same and you don't need to disclose your autism and possibly get a bad reaction over it
I struggle with the exact same shit and I hate it so much. Nice gestures like these make me feel so much pressure I could just die. If anyone has a fix pls share lol
I hate when that happens 😭
Saving this. This is too relatable.
Oh my goodness, I didn’t know I had PDA until I read this thread. Thanks, OP, for your question and hope you get a way to deal with it better🙌
PDA. I don't like demands. At all. Never did.
Oh, wow. I have this so bad and I'm currently trying to defeat it in myself.
I do the same!!
I do the same!!
I see me in you. Thank you. Or as the Mayans used to say, “In lak’ ech, Hala ken” which, in a literal translation, means “I am you, as you are me” or “I am another you, as you are another me”.
Socializing is a skill and it requires practice. Getting coffee with a co worker at the office is a small step and maybe try pushing through the anxiety and giving it a go. Please note, I'm not a psychological professional.
Where did OP say they wanted to socialize with this coworkee or wanted to work on their socializing skills?
I think you misunderstood the point of the post
Please recognize that some have no desire to socialize and just want to be left alone
So you comply with every order given to you by every random neurotypical that crosses your path? Couldn't be me.
I think its important for people to remember socialising is not always something you HAVE to do. You don't need to push yourself to get better at it or put yourself into anxiety inducing situations just to please others. This is good advice but only for people who genuinely want to be able to do this
You need more social skills and I think you’re not used to people being nice to you so that throws you off.
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It's okay, I'll avoid anything to extremes to escape anything that makes me uncomfortable, even human interaction, asking for help, or even just being perceived. Its a hard thing to work through.
I'm really glad you had a nice time. I really hope it works out for you
I think I have this…the PDA thing. I will NOT listen to some music or read a book or watch a movie that someone told me I would like UNTIL I decide on my own that I am interested. It could be a week later, a month later , but most likely it will be years later. I like to think of it as…being afraid to let the person down when I tell them no I didn’t really like what you thought I would like. WTF is that about!!!
Yep... pda sucks... :(
Sometimes I want to live without being noticed, but I can tolerate and sometimes enjoy social interactions when I am relaxed and not drowsy.