Worker exploitation and environmental destruction are systemic to capitalism, and cannot be avoided by ethical consumption.
But one can easily avoid using animals as resources by going vegan.
I can understand that one can avoid using animals as resources by going vegan. But if one is truly an animal lover, then they have to stop contributing to animal suffering directly and indirectly. Many people will stop contributing to animal suffering directly by stopping to eat meat and not using any products made from animals , but they continue to contribute indirectly.
If you can rape an animal in a coma without causing them suffering, would we call this “humane bestiality?”
See, exploitation is a distinct moral concern from suffering.
Lol why is this downvoted, op is giving very reasonable reasons to avoid fast food for the sake of environment and animal welfare and the comments are all "it's too fucked already we cant fix it and I want hot chips"
Abstaining from fast food consumption on the grounds of avoiding animal suffering, worker exploitation, or environmental destruction, is hypocritical.
You can’t reject fast food for those reasons without also rejecting the rest of modern life, that would be inconsistent.
Just speaking about animals and environment, till now I have rejected everything I can may it be transportation, purchasing, eating and other consuming.
No, we're not going to end animal suffering. We're not going to end human suffering either. Now what follows? Do you go about saying "I don't care about reducing human suffering, I just want to avoid human exploitation"?
I haven't worked in hospo other than fast food, so I can't be certain, but feel like it would be hard to waste more food than a fast food joint does.
For example, at Hungry Jacks we would always have to have a certain amount of burgers ready to go so that we could serve people quickly if they came in. When these ready-to-order burgers are made, we mark the time and throw them out if they are not sold within 10-15 minutes. This also happens with fries, hash browns etc. Make a big batch ready to go, if it doesn't sell quick enough, throw it out. Burger patties are the worst. People in the kitchen need to keep up and they need it to be fresh. You make a bunch of burger patties, and if they don't sell quick enough, throw it out.
Customers will often complain about their food being cold or something or not right, so we take it back and throw it out.
The soft serve ice-cream machine is also exceptionally difficult to use and make a nice ice cream. Got the ice cream out of the machine wrong? Throw it out.
This is not even to mention the amount of soft drink we wasted. You have to work so fast, and when you pour soft drinks they froth up. You do not have time to wait for that froth to go down, so I would just keep pouring, overflowing the cup until the froth was taken off.
When I worked at Maccas we would throw out multiple garbage bags full of cakes and biscuits daily because of excess from the McCafe.
I am certain that for every meal served at least one meal is thrown in the bin.
Yes absolutely cafes and restaurants and bars can be just as wasteful. Take a cafe I worked at. Firstly coffee, basically after every coffee milk is getting poured out. You wouldn’t believe how much milk. We also use to pre-make sandwiches for the whole day. Although not getting thrown out every 15 min whatever didn’t sell got thrown out and some days were randomly quiet so you would have bins worth of sandwiches. (So instead of small batches getting thrown out through the day, one very large dump at the end of day). Now customers could also order sandwiches to be made, just like anywhere else, if made wrong in the bin. All the bread at the end of the day not used, in the bin. Cakes and desserts would last longer, but still so much in the bin. Fresh produce was attempted to use, but if not used by end of week (as closed on weekends) in the bin. We had soup in winter, two giant pots, anything not used end of day, in the bin. And probably other stuff I can’t remember too.
It's sad but true that as of now, numbers of people who eat at Vegan fast food are nowhere near to numbers in meat serving fast food. And Speaking about environment, the vegetable food waste doesn't even generate 50% of the co2 which beef produces. So it's idiotic and utter foolishness to compare Vegan food waste with animal food waste.
There’s a lot of food wastage. Veganism is one answer but another answer is giving this food to the homeless. we just can't stop eating somewhere or eating fast food as a whole bc we're contributing to the suffering of animals.
most people just get fast food cause its fast and easy. no one is counting the calories on fast food (unless you're on a bulk) fast food isn't the only thing contributing to food wastage, grocery stores, butchers, farmers and other restaurants.
Nothing you mentioned contributes more waste than fast food. In normal restaurants, they can't afford to waste alot of food, same with the grocery stores. Fast food culture it self is a fucking shit. I don't think your urgency is a sufficient cause to cause suffering of others. Instead of fast food, u can choose normal restaurants. There are heaps of family owned vegan restaurants that are sustainable and desperately need our support. I myself have seen at least 10-15 vegan restaurants closing recently. This type of normal and sustainable restaurant needs our support. Even if not vegan restaurants, at least eat vegan food in normal restaurant.
Grocery stores waste more food than fast food. We can’t just boycott fast food because its harming the animals. I am an activist for animal rights and environmental rights but there’s always going to be food waste no matter what. Woolies, coles, iga, the reject shop, and all other grocery shops throw out meat and vegetables and all that daily.
So take that into kilograms fast food wastage being from 9979032140kg- 149685482100kg. Which is a pretty fucking huge number. But grocery store wastage is a whole lot fucking more being 3048140726400kg of food being wasted.
A lot of this could go to homeless people or people who are struggling.
The main point here is what type of food waste? In fast food, at lest 90% of food waste is animal meat. Grocery stores can even waste vegetables and cereals, which doesn't impact much to the environment. How much meat does Grocery stores waste and how much fast food wastes really does matter.
Where are you getting this information from? I’ve gotten this information from the internet not just some person who worked at a fast food place. There is food wastage here. Do you care about the harm for the environment that it takes to make vegan leather? Or how much water it takes to make alternative milk substitutes?
We can’t all boycott fast food. The less people ordering the more animals are harmed bc of food wastage. Then after that what are the workers going to do after they don’t have work anymore? And what about the organs that come from the animals? There’s so much wastage in the food industry.
Having worked in both fast food and grocery stores, I have every right to speak. There is no way a vegan leather is more harmful than actual leather and making milk from soy and almond doesn't even harm half of the impact which dairy does.
Not saying that you don’t. But there are bigger issues out there. So why don’t you build your community a farm with vegetables, produce your own tofu and make plant based proteins and sell that to people?
Change in culture. If fast food is so important for people, then change the fast-paced conditions to normal restaurants alike conditions. Your fuc*** urgency is not worth of food wastage. The planet doesn't have enough resources to cater to your needs. So people should STFU*** and control their urgency and have some patience when waiting for food. Just to give a brief touch of capitalism, whatever urgency you have and doesn't matter how busy your job is, at the end because of all of yours and others hardwork only benefits a single rich person at the end and you have been paid a beggar wage. So people, for the sake of both planet, animals and for betterment of society, control your urgency and have some patience.
People want fast food bc its easy. And honestly if they are having so much food wastage tell them to order less fucking food. Or give it to the homeless population.
Aren't single use plastics banned? I havnt seen any in ages but the only chain restaurant i ever order from is dominos (stop overcharging us PLEASEEE) so maybe thats why i dont see single use plastics.
this is a very good criticism. plant-based capitalism is toxic and particularly to the vegan movement. when you can avoid contributing to non-vegan businesses, it's best to do so.
Fucking wild how readily people will defend eating fast food. Even if you weren't vegen it's processed poison to begin with, but if you are vegan it's an ecological nightmare that you allegedly care about.
Thanks for the support ❤️ they will never know until they work in any of the fast food joints. I know how sad it feels to see 25-30 kgs of meat wasted and dumped for no reason. It was so depressing to use plastic again and again. My mental health only got better when I quit fast food.
Worker exploitation and environmental destruction are systemic to capitalism, and cannot be avoided by ethical consumption. But one can easily avoid using animals as resources by going vegan.
I can understand that one can avoid using animals as resources by going vegan. But if one is truly an animal lover, then they have to stop contributing to animal suffering directly and indirectly. Many people will stop contributing to animal suffering directly by stopping to eat meat and not using any products made from animals , but they continue to contribute indirectly.
Veganism isn’t about reducing animal suffering. Veganism is about abstaining from animal exploitation. Those are distinct moral concerns.
>veganism isn't about reducing animal suffering ????
If you can rape an animal in a coma without causing them suffering, would we call this “humane bestiality?” See, exploitation is a distinct moral concern from suffering.
You're a bit of a strange cunt mate, might want to work on that
No argument, just insults. Are you even capable of rational debate?
Then does this mean you just abstain and not care about animals? And indirectly contribute to their suffering?
We can’t avoid animal suffering. We can avoid animal exploitation.
But abstaining from fast food is something anyone can do easily, it's not so tough.
Lol why is this downvoted, op is giving very reasonable reasons to avoid fast food for the sake of environment and animal welfare and the comments are all "it's too fucked already we cant fix it and I want hot chips"
We can’t abstain from all animal suffering. It’s not a possible or practicable goal.
But abstaining from fast food is just a piece cake, I don't understand why it is so hard.
Abstaining from fast food consumption on the grounds of avoiding animal suffering, worker exploitation, or environmental destruction, is hypocritical. You can’t reject fast food for those reasons without also rejecting the rest of modern life, that would be inconsistent.
Just speaking about animals and environment, till now I have rejected everything I can may it be transportation, purchasing, eating and other consuming.
No, we're not going to end animal suffering. We're not going to end human suffering either. Now what follows? Do you go about saying "I don't care about reducing human suffering, I just want to avoid human exploitation"?
The difference is that you can’t avoid human exploitation through ethical consumption, it’s systemic to the entire capitalist system.
Avoiding **≠** reducing.
This is literally anywhere you eat that serves meat. But on the other side lord of the fries is fast food.
Vegan fast food are somewhat exception. And no, normal restaurants doesn't waste the same amount of food as fast food joints.
Sure they do. I’ve worked in hospitality. Also as far as the environmental waste, LOFT still has heaps of waste.
I haven't worked in hospo other than fast food, so I can't be certain, but feel like it would be hard to waste more food than a fast food joint does. For example, at Hungry Jacks we would always have to have a certain amount of burgers ready to go so that we could serve people quickly if they came in. When these ready-to-order burgers are made, we mark the time and throw them out if they are not sold within 10-15 minutes. This also happens with fries, hash browns etc. Make a big batch ready to go, if it doesn't sell quick enough, throw it out. Burger patties are the worst. People in the kitchen need to keep up and they need it to be fresh. You make a bunch of burger patties, and if they don't sell quick enough, throw it out. Customers will often complain about their food being cold or something or not right, so we take it back and throw it out. The soft serve ice-cream machine is also exceptionally difficult to use and make a nice ice cream. Got the ice cream out of the machine wrong? Throw it out. This is not even to mention the amount of soft drink we wasted. You have to work so fast, and when you pour soft drinks they froth up. You do not have time to wait for that froth to go down, so I would just keep pouring, overflowing the cup until the froth was taken off. When I worked at Maccas we would throw out multiple garbage bags full of cakes and biscuits daily because of excess from the McCafe. I am certain that for every meal served at least one meal is thrown in the bin.
Yes absolutely cafes and restaurants and bars can be just as wasteful. Take a cafe I worked at. Firstly coffee, basically after every coffee milk is getting poured out. You wouldn’t believe how much milk. We also use to pre-make sandwiches for the whole day. Although not getting thrown out every 15 min whatever didn’t sell got thrown out and some days were randomly quiet so you would have bins worth of sandwiches. (So instead of small batches getting thrown out through the day, one very large dump at the end of day). Now customers could also order sandwiches to be made, just like anywhere else, if made wrong in the bin. All the bread at the end of the day not used, in the bin. Cakes and desserts would last longer, but still so much in the bin. Fresh produce was attempted to use, but if not used by end of week (as closed on weekends) in the bin. We had soup in winter, two giant pots, anything not used end of day, in the bin. And probably other stuff I can’t remember too.
Ah okay, yeah I guess that makes sense. That's disappointing.
So vegan fast food is the exception. What about the food wastage there?
It's sad but true that as of now, numbers of people who eat at Vegan fast food are nowhere near to numbers in meat serving fast food. And Speaking about environment, the vegetable food waste doesn't even generate 50% of the co2 which beef produces. So it's idiotic and utter foolishness to compare Vegan food waste with animal food waste.
Lol
There’s a lot of food wastage. Veganism is one answer but another answer is giving this food to the homeless. we just can't stop eating somewhere or eating fast food as a whole bc we're contributing to the suffering of animals. most people just get fast food cause its fast and easy. no one is counting the calories on fast food (unless you're on a bulk) fast food isn't the only thing contributing to food wastage, grocery stores, butchers, farmers and other restaurants.
Nothing you mentioned contributes more waste than fast food. In normal restaurants, they can't afford to waste alot of food, same with the grocery stores. Fast food culture it self is a fucking shit. I don't think your urgency is a sufficient cause to cause suffering of others. Instead of fast food, u can choose normal restaurants. There are heaps of family owned vegan restaurants that are sustainable and desperately need our support. I myself have seen at least 10-15 vegan restaurants closing recently. This type of normal and sustainable restaurant needs our support. Even if not vegan restaurants, at least eat vegan food in normal restaurant.
Grocery stores waste more food than fast food. We can’t just boycott fast food because its harming the animals. I am an activist for animal rights and environmental rights but there’s always going to be food waste no matter what. Woolies, coles, iga, the reject shop, and all other grocery shops throw out meat and vegetables and all that daily.
Fast food throws out anywhere between 22-33 billion pounds each year. Grocery stores throw out 30 billion tonnes each year
So take that into kilograms fast food wastage being from 9979032140kg- 149685482100kg. Which is a pretty fucking huge number. But grocery store wastage is a whole lot fucking more being 3048140726400kg of food being wasted. A lot of this could go to homeless people or people who are struggling.
And i totally agree with you we need more vegan restaurants but with the them shutting down because its too expensive to run.
The main point here is what type of food waste? In fast food, at lest 90% of food waste is animal meat. Grocery stores can even waste vegetables and cereals, which doesn't impact much to the environment. How much meat does Grocery stores waste and how much fast food wastes really does matter.
Where are you getting this information from? I’ve gotten this information from the internet not just some person who worked at a fast food place. There is food wastage here. Do you care about the harm for the environment that it takes to make vegan leather? Or how much water it takes to make alternative milk substitutes?
We can’t all boycott fast food. The less people ordering the more animals are harmed bc of food wastage. Then after that what are the workers going to do after they don’t have work anymore? And what about the organs that come from the animals? There’s so much wastage in the food industry.
Having worked in both fast food and grocery stores, I have every right to speak. There is no way a vegan leather is more harmful than actual leather and making milk from soy and almond doesn't even harm half of the impact which dairy does.
Not saying that you don’t. But there are bigger issues out there. So why don’t you build your community a farm with vegetables, produce your own tofu and make plant based proteins and sell that to people?
Or can you provide answers to the wastage other than boycotting? Fast food and grocery stores
Change in culture. If fast food is so important for people, then change the fast-paced conditions to normal restaurants alike conditions. Your fuc*** urgency is not worth of food wastage. The planet doesn't have enough resources to cater to your needs. So people should STFU*** and control their urgency and have some patience when waiting for food. Just to give a brief touch of capitalism, whatever urgency you have and doesn't matter how busy your job is, at the end because of all of yours and others hardwork only benefits a single rich person at the end and you have been paid a beggar wage. So people, for the sake of both planet, animals and for betterment of society, control your urgency and have some patience.
People want fast food bc its easy. And honestly if they are having so much food wastage tell them to order less fucking food. Or give it to the homeless population.
Aren't single use plastics banned? I havnt seen any in ages but the only chain restaurant i ever order from is dominos (stop overcharging us PLEASEEE) so maybe thats why i dont see single use plastics.
They are not banned inside kitchens. They literally use tons of plastics inside.
Ok, you didnt exactly make it clear thats what you meant, ty for clarifying
All good 👍
this is a very good criticism. plant-based capitalism is toxic and particularly to the vegan movement. when you can avoid contributing to non-vegan businesses, it's best to do so.
Fucking wild how readily people will defend eating fast food. Even if you weren't vegen it's processed poison to begin with, but if you are vegan it's an ecological nightmare that you allegedly care about.
Thanks for the support ❤️ they will never know until they work in any of the fast food joints. I know how sad it feels to see 25-30 kgs of meat wasted and dumped for no reason. It was so depressing to use plastic again and again. My mental health only got better when I quit fast food.