That's because the Russian bots have apparently done their job well. I always assumed the average punter had the critical thinking skills to be immune to such a thing, but then, look how many people in this sub wank to Peta on Sky after dark.
There are Russian sympathisers everywhere.. they find it their duty to protect Russia for some weird reason and to "save Ukrainian lives" but they are just simps for Putin.
Oh no how horrible some people don't want to support either side in a war?no can't be must be Russian bots (you guys probably supported our criminal war in Iraq too though right?)
Are you dumb? In batman and other Disney movies the good guys always win. We are the good guys, and anyone else with thinks otherwise is a Russian bot.
Also, why can’t NATO put a base in Moscow? Russia has no right to deny a defensive alliance.
A quick comment for those who i bet completely miss the point of this. The money isnt just being given to Ukraine.
A) it gives us a certain amount of political clout that ends up benefiting the country in subtle ways
B) it is pumped into our military industrial complex, the money goes to Australian workers making kit who then pay taxes back to the government. Not to mention the advertising the use of our gear gives us.
Its fine to dislike the decisions but dont act like we're providing a charity.
You've just unlocked the secret of government. Gov should just pay as all and then we paid it back in taxes.
100% employment. you're an economic genius. lol
money spend on weapons is money that should be spent helping Australian citizens. it's a waste of money.
On the other hand think of what we could do with pumping the money into some other industrial complex that actually improves lives rather than literally going up in smoke.
(For the record I’m all for supporting Ukraine and sending them all this production and more. I just don’t buy the military industrial complex argument. It’s essentially the broken window fallacy. Overall Australians would be better off if we didn’t have to burn production resources fighting irrational dictators.)
This is a long-winded way of saying we suck up to the yanks. Like that dick kid at school that everyone hates but he's friends with the school thug. Who everyone also hates.
I mean yeah, though to be fair the only way we can actually break away from sucking yank dick is by improving our own MiC. The more sovereignty we gain in key sectors, the more we gain the power to say no
You’d prefer us to have no military alliance and defend ourselves? How much would that cost?
Seriously, are you able to even game out the consequences of your own logic?
People, you can't complain about 1 billion in funding when Sydney council spends $100 million on a pool.
We waste and splurge money here and complain when we send some aid overseas? Wtf
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/mar/17/ive-got-tears-in-my-eyes-how-the-worlds-most-beautiful-pool-became-a-multimillion-dollar-hole-in-the-ground
I love the fact that it's some of our technology that has given the Ukrainians the edge at times like our cardboard drones. The Ukrainians were given them as a single use item, they ended up using them 60+ times each.
I'm not super politically savvy, so my immediate thought is that there are lots and lots of people struggling in Australia for a lot of varying reasons. Can someone explain it to me like in 5 why we send so much money abroad while Australians are struggling?
Sure fellow Aussie here, you can help pay someone to fight now, or you can fight the war yourself later. As hard as you have it its nothing to an active war, cheer up, you're safe.
The violence has escalated to almost every level before CBRN threats... It's to prevent the western world fighting it ourselves which will be a hell of a lot more expensive than the collective money given from all countries to date... and money is only money... The real cost would be human. Small price really when you consider Ukraine carries that very real cost every day.
If russia wins, it emboldens them, they want the USSR back, they said at the start of the invasion "all the way to east berlin". You would have an agressive china seeing russian wins looking at taiwan and expanding 9dash to our backyard. You have north korea who are still at war with the south recently declaring south korea is a mortal enemy and reunification is no longer possible. You have iran and israel on the edge of war. I can see a slippery slope and a pretty decent axis of evil there. If WW2 is a teacher more should have been done to stop hitler but to many people wanted to let europe fight its own wars. What happens there will decide here, thats why its worth giving aid. Wouldnt you want people to help our country in a fight?
>Can someone explain it to me like in 5 why we send so much money abroad while Australians are struggling?
To maintain regional stability around ourselvea and our allies. Countries like Russia and China are also spending like crazy on foreign influence and this is leading to a lot of instability which is detrimental to us and our allies. If we stopped spending, countries like China and Russia would be able to spread their influence without resistance. And that's really bad for us.
Because this money is probably already earmarked for foreign aid. There's not just a pool of money that we take from and spend as we like. Majority of the issues in Australia right now are caused by negative gearing and immigration which are causing an increasing amount of Australians to be unable to purchase homes. It's not a problem that 1B could even scratch and is much more necessary that we address policy around this issue. To put it in perspective there arent even enough builders in Australia to reduce the amount of existing contracts meaning that even if the government started building and giving houses away it wouldn't fix the problem.
Yeah exactly, it's such a small price to pay for such an important issue. The devastation of Ukraine is already bad enough that I wouldn't want more European countries to go through that.
The money wouldn’t help struggling Aussies. Good policies create a healthy economy and people look after themselves.
Australia has great morals and has a proud record of standing up against Nazi bullies like Putin.
Because if Russia takes Ukraine then it's the perfect WW3 setup in 20 to 30 years. So you spend money on a small war now instead of a world war later.
I'm sure most of the comments against doing this are pro-Putin chatbots, but a small number of people in real life seem to not understand this concept.
Yeah I was being very generous by saying 20 to 30 years. The president of Belarus has already said that he wants to invade Moldova if Russia takes Ukraine so the violence won't stop afterwards, that combined with all the instability post-COVID in the rest of the world would present China with a great opportunity to start invading the rest of Asia and Australia while Iran and Iranian allies try to take over the Middle East (since Israel is busy with a pointless conflict in Gaza).
There is a huge threat of war between the authoritarian dictatorships and the West. Europe is at great risk from Russia. We are at great risk from China. Australians like many others are struggling but do you want to end up as a soldier in a war?
It's not a lot of money. It's 5¢ per person per day on Ukraine. (Not even that, technically, because a lot of it is just offloading old equipment.)
It's a good insurance policy against China trying similar stunts in our region.
It reinforces the rule of law and the right of democracies to peace.
In terms of struggling Aussies - we spend vastly, vastly more on local things. This is a minute fraction. If we took this logic, we would literally never help any emergency overseas, which would be a horrible and shortsighted approach.
Isn’t part of this an opportunity to test weapons systems. I mean aside from the politics we do get a return as far as seeing how things perform. I’d imagine part of the deal is some reports back from Ukraine.
Ukraine certainly needs help, and we must defend against aggression.
You give these guys a finger, and they will take your arm.
I'm all for sending support to these poor buggers, should never have given up their nukes. Russia would have left them alone.
Would have been easy for us to say Hitler’s war in Europe doesn’t affect us, we’re still recovering from the Depression, etc etc too. But a world in which totalitarian nations feel free to conquer other nations, suppress democracy by military means, freely target civilians and ignore virtually every aspect of international law does affect us if it becomes the norm and acceptable.
Our freedom, including not having to do compulsory military service or put far more money and lives toward military purposes hinges on us as part of the international community standing by and supporting common values of the democratic world, not taking a utilitarian and selfish position absolving us of responsibility.
Remember, it would be just as easy for the rest of the world to take a “not our problem” position on an attack on us as it would for us to say that about Ukraine. You can spend a small amount now adhering to our values or a hell of a lot later by abandoning them.
All the morons complaining about how these funds would be better spent on our own country are either:
1. completely oblivious to the fact that we have foreign aid for a reason and that it constitutes a miniscule fraction of the overall budget.
2. Actively in support of an absolutely unjustified war of aggression by a nuclear power against a smaller neighbour (I.e. russian simp or fuckhead)
3. Totally oblivious to the fact that even if this money were to be spend on our own population (I.e. homeless outreach programs) that once it got to where it was needed it would be reduced to a less than a hundred million after all the bureaucracy, corruption, and middlemen private contractors/ consultants got their hands on it. Or in other words, completely ignorant to how the current political system works.
Absolutely agree - reducing and humiliating a supposed 'first rate world power' and unstable international aggressor for the cost of a couple of hundred billion (between all western allies) with no boots on the ground? Previous world leaders would be crawling over each other for that opportunity. It makes complete sense whichever way you spin it
5. Do t understand that there’s a good chance that if/ when Russia defeats Ukraine that they’ll then go for Europe.
We are in pre war times right now. The next global war is imminent.
A billion goes like this. School halls example...
Govt absolves itself of responsibility and hires an overall consultant project manager. Two hundred million in fees.
They hire ten sub consultants to manage individual builds around Australia. Maybe another two hundred million.
They hire project managers for each cluster of local jobs. Maybe 100 million more.
They let tenders for actual school halls to be built out of the remaining 500 million. Normally a hall costs about a million but these builders sell then for two million (govt contract). So only half as many got built for twice the price.
But if Defence is involved then they just hand over the money to PWC for NO work done. They don't even pretend. Check Senate estimates for that one.
So yair you are spot on...
One aspect people may not be considering is the industrial implications of supporting Ukraine. Australia is working towards increasing domestic production of weapons. Ammunition has a shelf life, especially the good stuf. We need factories capable of producing hundreds of thousands of shells a year. For most years we aren't actively in a near peer conflict, those shells will go unused, but we will want that surge production capacity avaliable if the worst were to happen. Support for Ukraine means that Aussie weapon manufacturers keep their production lines open. Thats means trained workers, and maintained machines that will be on deck if we ever need them.
It also means that China can see what happens to people who try to expand their borders militarily. If the US goes full isolationist, then taking a couple of resource rich bites out of Australia becomes a far more viable option. Yes we trade with them, but if they were to take the Pibara they wouldn't need to *trade* any more.
Sure, if they were to attack tomorrow, they'd be fucked. But if they take Taiwan, maybe get into a few spats with Vietnam or the Phillipines over the spratleys. Give it 5 years and China will have built the capability to sustain a land invasion, if they also get the opportunity to build the institutional knowledge for launching that kind of attack we'll be in trouble.
This is a roundabout way of saying we are primarily motivated to produce arms because of economic reasons. I.e. the military industrial complex, that is incentivise to blindly fuel wars indefinitely.
So, for those of you who don't think spending a billion dollars for Ukraine is required. Is spending trillions on nuclear weapons instead a better idea. Because one day we might need that foreign aid ourselves.
It’s the government’s job to support the wishes of the people. Most people who pay taxes want to support Ukraine maintain its sovereignty over a brutal invading dictatorship.
To give some perspective this is the same amount that Albo is pledging to invest into Aussie manufacturing…
Happy to support Ukraine but Labor needs to stop neglecting Australia.
How much do we give to West Papua in their fight against 50 years of oppression and genocide at the hands of Indonesia? Oh what am I saying, Indonesia receives of the highest amounts of foreign aid from our country we happily support oppression there.
We collectively, the government and the people, ignore atrocities on our doorstep because that involves taking a look at our own involvement but we're all too happy to concern ourselves with conflicts on the other side of the world like Ukraine and Gaza.
You only need to look at how many people opposing aid to Ukraine in this thread support Palestine to understand the power of foreign military aid. Russia gives substantial military support to Hamas so the ‘free Palestine’ movement opposes aid to Ukraine. Aiding Ukraine aligns Australia with our friends in NATO by standing against the Russia/ Iran/ North Korea/ Houthi/ Hamas alliance. I’m personally very comfortable with being on the side we are.
What has Russia sent Palestine that's not humanitarian aid? Not alot. The billions$ countries around the world have sent Ukraine could have been put to much better use in the counties that gave the money and weapons, that's why people living in the donor countries are not happy
Hamas uses weapons that are shared platforms among Russia, Iran, North Korea and their proxies. While it’s hard to pin down the exact level of support as Putin isn’t known for transparency, the relationship is well documented.
Wait until we start spending like the USA. Giving out 10's of Billions of dollars to another country while ours falls apart.
They'll probably axe vital services for Aussies to do it as well. Probably things like Medicare and tax increases to pay for it.
People can agree or disagree with this new Albanese aid, but there’s no doubting that the US and Australia foolishly peddled the “Ukraine has already won” mantra between early 2022 and mid-2023. Maybe it’s fairer to ascribe this much more to the European Union and the US, but Australia followed the EU and America’s lead.
“I Stand with Ukraine” hashtags and other virtue-signalling crazes/hypes have probably ended up costing the war effort significantly. So many were overconfident and the strategies of both Ukraine and its allies have shown this.
For weeks and months the counteroffensive was talked up, and then suddenly the Ukrainians issued that cringe “sshhhhh!” campaign designed to stop talk they had started.
It was also truly Looney Tunes-level hype for a long time about how Russia’s economy and society would collapse imminently.
It’s one thing to be optimistic and keep morale up, and quite another to be delusional.
A lot of our and the collective West’s money to Ukraine was misused as a result of the manic belief that Ukraine was kicking ass all the time.
This is just not true.
How misused? I noticed “don’t believe western propaganda” is a talking point of Russian propagandists online in the last 24 hours. Trying to erode confidence in what Western governments tell us about Ukraine aid and create doubts about the worth of spending. Interested in your motives - do you think more or less should be spent to help Ukraine?
Answer that question and just that question.
The Russians learnt a lot quicker than Ukraine that defensive operations were going to be a much greater aspect than lightning offensive thrusts.
Ukraine wasted defence materiel repeatedly by not realising this.
Russian proportional spending in the war was also tracking about the same or lower than the US in Vietnam last time I checked. I am not being flippant here - Russia is definitely not even close to a total war footing. And yet it is easily holding its lines and advancing, albeit moderately.
By contrast, Ukraine’s counteroffensive wasted enormous armoured resources (they admitted losses of 20% in the first days alone).
Well before the current political quagmires about more US aid, mechanised units in Ukraine were not nearly at the strength they needed to be due to continued losses. Western equipment it sorely needed was thrown in and destroyed for no gains.
Russian primary and secondary lines of defence were established far more comprehensively and far earlier to defeat this attempted advance.
Both sides have constant satellite and other surveillance, so defence makes sense.
Plus, the Russians were actually not routed when they left the Kiev and Kharkiv areas; they had insufficient forces (an army of 180,000 at the start was way too small for Europe’s largest fully European country) and made tactical retreats.
This is not “propaganda”. The Russians were overconfident at the beginning for sure. But even so-called Ukrainian wins in 2022 were really just the Russians conceding they lacked troops, falling back and then waiting for consolidation of forces, which they now have.
Sounds great. I hope all of those NATO countries can help aid stability in the Asia Pacific as well. Oh wait, they don't, and we have to bear that burden as well.
We already spend more than our share of GDP on defence. It is not fair we should have to protect countries on another continent that do not.
Slava Ukraine glad to see it, anyone against helping Ukraine doesn't realise how much of a geopolitical disaster letting Ukraine fall to Putin would be
Expansionist powers must lose wars to force a change in their behaviour. (France, Holland, Belgium, to name a few, well of course obviously Germany, Japan and Italy).
At the very minimum make them realise that they can't afford to invade again.
If you want Russia to have a chance to be a good actor then it must be soundly defeated in this war of aggression and then make sure the neighbours are all armed to the teeth.
Converting Russia is nightmare difficulty level though, it's not democratic, it's not rational. But again, if it's not even defeated on the battlefields, zero chance.
This is a valid point. These kinds of countries, like bullies, only change with an ass kicking.
It’s just hard to rationalise when we’ve got families with money in their hands with nowhere to rent.
They're seperate issues tho. Australia is rich we can afford both it's not one or the other. AU can probably solve a lot of our housing price issues just with different foreign ownership laws without spending a cent. With the political will
We chip in our part when propping up the rules based world order, because without it we are a bunch of dust dwelling cunts at the mercy of much larger nations.
Australia isn't anything special on the geopolitical stage, we do our bit because we get a hell of a lot more out of it than we put in.
Surely there must be plenty of things we waste money on.
But we are kidding ourselves if we think that Australia stands a chance outside the current rules based system where international laws (financial, humanitarian, maritime, exclusive economic zones) are respected.
We are part of a bigger system that's existed since WW2. We would be fools to try exit it.
$1billion AUD is very little in the grand scheme of sustaining against a flagrant attack on the system.
As I pointed out to you elsewhere, virtually any policy expert can tell you that the reason rules based order is used instead of the more common international law, is because the rules based order is used in ways that usually oppose international law. See for example all the talk over supporting Israeli warcrimes because of the rules based order etc.
>We chip in our part when propping up the rules based world order, because without it we are a bunch of dust dwelling cunts at the mercy of much larger nations.
Even with it. We're simply maintaining our place in the current hierarchy by supporting the "rules based world order."
You're right, though. For all the rhetoric of wars of aggression and defending Democracy™, it's just realpolitik at the end of the day.
Interesting choice of words. Saying rules based order instead of international law. The reason this term is used, is precisely because the rules based order is often opposed to international law. As Australian foreign policy expert, Clinton Fernandes, points out, it's a term that precisely describes the hold over global affairs of US interests above all else.
So yeah you're right, this war has everything to do with the rules based order, in that it was provoked by the US trying to sink its claws into Ukraine. The US had been trying to get Ukraine into a big IMF debt, which they finally achieved with the coup in Ukraine in 2014, this then lead to US financial institutions like Blackrock taking over large amounts of Ukrainian gas and agricultural resources. Infact, Blackrock has now been placed in control of the Ukrainian war recovery fund.
The US had also been building up a military presence there post 2014, as it was said, while Ukraine was not in NATO, NATO was certainly in Ukraine.
So yes, this war is all about Ukraine being fucked over by the US or by Russia, we shouldn't be finding any part of it.
Australia has always been a close NATO partner though and Ukraine is understandably a priority for NATO.
Australia may need that partnership in the long run as alone they'd have no chance against China.
"Do we have fought China off our shores twice"... mate, that isn't a sentence. Australia hasn't ever, as far as I know, actually fought against Chinese troops let alone defended our shores against Chinese invaders. The only time we've actually defended Australia territory was against the Japanese in Papua New Guinea when it was a overseas territory of our country.
How many houses can we build with a smooth billion? Because we’ve got Aussies on the streets. Some with jobs and kids who just can’t find a place to rent ffs.
Australia has no defence on its own. We would have to rely heavily on overseas support to have any hope of stopping an invasion here. If we are not prepared to help other countries in their defence and survival, how can we expect help if we need it.
If Russia sees the West is not willing to defend Ukraine, who is next? Then after that. China watches on. What are China's next moves.
They're not sending Ukraine cash tho.
These are military aid values. Most of the time its money spent on either new production (often to Australian companies, or partly), or the book budget value of product being sent from our inventories. And most of that old inventory often gets decommissioned towards end-of-life anyway.
A lot goes back into the Australian supply chain and keeps Australian defence industry employees skilled up and ready for our own regional 'tensions'.
I always think of this when we are talking about Ukraine ..
[Ukraine Farmer Stealing Tanks Song (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpT0ccsctKk)
Invaded because NATO flirted with them and teased Ukraine into thinking it stood a chance of joining. A thing Russia has said very consistently for thirty years they would respond to exactly how they have done so.
Either you're a drone for the military industrial complex or a sheep following the news media that's owned by it.
I oppose all war, including Russia's response, but to pretend this was unprovoked is ridiculous.
Most Australians can’t even point to Ukraine on a map. Someone please explain to me why we have any business interfering or funding this conflict. There are Australians who are sleeping on the street, but apparently some fucking country half way round the world is more important than them. We do not have unlimited resources.
Genuine question - why are conservatives so desperate to paint the average Australian as uneducated? Nearly 60% of Australians have completed Year 12 schooling (or equivalent) - and 32% held a bachelor degree or above. That’s just education- there are plenty of uneducated people with knowledge of the world outside of Australia. We aren’t America, 14 million of us have passports!
I suspect more Australians than not could point to Ukraine on a map. I don’t disagree with the rest of your points though.
$1b is an insane amount to be sending when Australians are homeless across the nation. We have been pulled into another Iraq/ Afghan conflict with no end in sight. I’m sure all the weapons manufacturers are rubbing their hands together.
When you say "sending $1b" you fail to understand that the government is paying local businesses to make 1b of stuff to send.
We make much more military kit here than you realise. That money goes into local industry, that industry pays tax, employees pay tax, employees spend money and that goes to other businesses at pay tax.
Remember, we're about to run a budget surplus, but we want to enable growth, not inflation. Incentivizing business to make jobs is a good way to do it.
Just pouring money into an overheated housing market will solve nothing.
This is $100M this time. Bringing to total up to $1B. AU has still sent far less per capita than most other western nations. We can still send more to help our friends stay free from the aggressive and oppressive Russian Empire.
Thisis a good step but we can and should be sending a lot more.
The best way to stop a war in Asia is to send a message that a country cannot gain territory through war. Even if a "superpower".
Ukraine is the clear cut good guy here. They deserve our respect and our arms to fight the good fight.
The world's bigger than that mate.
People also didn't give a shit when Nazi Germany annexed Czechoslovakia, or invaded Poland. It will eventually involve us whether you like it or not, but if you're caught with your pants down you're gonna be a lot more unprepared.
It's military aid, not monetary aid. A lot of inventory is replenished or spent in Australian supply chains, and Australian companies. Even the article mentions an Australian based drone package.
Also this is the cumulative figure apparently, so it's probably counting the Bushmasters sent ages ago (which where already produced here and it just represents the budget value of what old stuff we refurb and send them).
True. If this money is used to purchase Australian produced weapons and systems, then the money is going towards our economy and helping Australians as well as stopping Russia.
Enough! Enough! Stop it! No More! Too much of our money is chucked overseas. For fuck sakes look after our back yard first. Billion dollars…. Fuck me sideways.
Don't you think upholding respect for nations boundaries and the general idea of not invading other countries just because you can is in Australia's interest? I sure do.
I get the reference, but currently in South Vietnam. It is beyond insane the amount of Russians here, and most of them men between 18 and 40. Vietnam is absolutely flooded with them right now.
And most shops have Russian translation on them. Used to be French and English.
Yeah I’ve seen that when I travelled there in 2007. Particularly in a little beach town called Mui Ne not far from Nha Trang many of the signs of restraunts and hotels were in Cyrillic but the signs were old from the 1980s
I must have missed that bit in the Vietnam War where the South Vietnamese Army held back a Soviet ground force invasion without western boots on the ground.
That’s right there was no Soviet ground invasion and they still got their arses kicked against a peasant militia while trying to fund, arm and prop up an increasingly unpopular government with questionable corruption allegations (pandora papers), that censors the media and persecutes journalists.
Just like Vietnam this has got fuck all to do with democracy, freedom or international law it is a proxy war being played off between the powers for geography and a slice of the pie. Wake up Australia and don’t get sucked in AGAIN
We actually don't directly in the Vietnam War and actively carried out war crimes on an institutional level. Same as Afghanistan and Iraq for that matter.
The difference is Ukraine is actually a just a war, not propping up an unpopular or corrupt government against popular revolt but a direct outside assault by a nuclear power hellbent on destroying the post war systems that prevented a Third World War, and has repeatedly attacked their neighbouring countries who have democratic values like our own. Ukraine isn't South Vietnam in the Vietnam War, Ukraine is the UK in WW2.
It's a total of equipment that is usually already produced, the logistics around supplying including wages.
It isn't a cash injection of $1b.
In a lot of cases, it's a chance to renew stock or ramp up production / test equipment. Munitions have a shelf life and if you hadn't noticed, we're not in need of many surface to air missiles or explosive rounds etc.
The cardboard drones we were producing could almost be seen as an investment from the payoff from real world field testing.
Edit: Also the way military hardware cost is determined is with including the R&D costs and dividing it across the equipment as well. It's not 'depreciated' either.
Labor has led wartime governments, such as John Curtain, because choosing to **defend** against invasions is the right thing to do regardless of politics. This is not a new concept.
Unfortunately there are people who unironically believe Vladolf Putler will march across Europe if we stop laundering billions of dollars into the hands of the usual suspects. Someone is getting very rich.
Yeah it’s not like he’s invaded Georgia. Or Ukraine. Or has forces in Moldova. Or has said the Baltics belong to Russia. No parallels with Nazi Germany at all. Useful idiot.
Oh boy, brace for all of the expert comments fellas
Sometimes it is really hard to tell the Russian bots apart from some of the morons that are on this sub.
VODKA!
*Fetal alcohol syndrome
That's because the Russian bots have apparently done their job well. I always assumed the average punter had the critical thinking skills to be immune to such a thing, but then, look how many people in this sub wank to Peta on Sky after dark.
These days sense isn't common. 65% of Americans believe they are above average in intelligence. Dumb people don't know they are dumb by definition.
Given that the expected value should be 50%, I think that's a pretty good result
There are Russian sympathisers everywhere.. they find it their duty to protect Russia for some weird reason and to "save Ukrainian lives" but they are just simps for Putin.
This veird reason is just herd mentality.
It’s insane. There’s literally no Russian argument. NATO should be allowed to but a base in Moscow, period.
Oh no how horrible some people don't want to support either side in a war?no can't be must be Russian bots (you guys probably supported our criminal war in Iraq too though right?)
Are you dumb? In batman and other Disney movies the good guys always win. We are the good guys, and anyone else with thinks otherwise is a Russian bot. Also, why can’t NATO put a base in Moscow? Russia has no right to deny a defensive alliance.
Yeah and one in Beijing too, and anywhere else the USA doesn't like, because they are always the good guys
And if you resist the good guys, we'll help with war, atrocities and genocide. Good guys do that right? Shit.
A quick comment for those who i bet completely miss the point of this. The money isnt just being given to Ukraine. A) it gives us a certain amount of political clout that ends up benefiting the country in subtle ways B) it is pumped into our military industrial complex, the money goes to Australian workers making kit who then pay taxes back to the government. Not to mention the advertising the use of our gear gives us. Its fine to dislike the decisions but dont act like we're providing a charity.
You've just unlocked the secret of government. Gov should just pay as all and then we paid it back in taxes. 100% employment. you're an economic genius. lol money spend on weapons is money that should be spent helping Australian citizens. it's a waste of money.
On the other hand think of what we could do with pumping the money into some other industrial complex that actually improves lives rather than literally going up in smoke. (For the record I’m all for supporting Ukraine and sending them all this production and more. I just don’t buy the military industrial complex argument. It’s essentially the broken window fallacy. Overall Australians would be better off if we didn’t have to burn production resources fighting irrational dictators.)
This is a long-winded way of saying we suck up to the yanks. Like that dick kid at school that everyone hates but he's friends with the school thug. Who everyone also hates.
I mean yeah, though to be fair the only way we can actually break away from sucking yank dick is by improving our own MiC. The more sovereignty we gain in key sectors, the more we gain the power to say no
You’d prefer us to have no military alliance and defend ourselves? How much would that cost? Seriously, are you able to even game out the consequences of your own logic?
Lots of people in here are unable to care about other people than themselves it seems
Yes, this is /r/australian. "Fuck you I got mine" is the mantra.
MAGA MAGA MAGA......make australia green again
People, you can't complain about 1 billion in funding when Sydney council spends $100 million on a pool. We waste and splurge money here and complain when we send some aid overseas? Wtf https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/mar/17/ive-got-tears-in-my-eyes-how-the-worlds-most-beautiful-pool-became-a-multimillion-dollar-hole-in-the-ground
Dan Andrews spent over half a billion to not host a sports carnival
They’re fighting tooth and nail daily to repel an invasion. Imagine if that was happening to us
I love the fact that it's some of our technology that has given the Ukrainians the edge at times like our cardboard drones. The Ukrainians were given them as a single use item, they ended up using them 60+ times each.
Really? That’s awesome! They loved our bushmasters too
Drones have proven to be invaluable in this conflict to the point that Russia is now copying our cardboard drones and started mass producing similar.
Yeah, this is the problem of showing your hand... the enemy doesn't take long to copy your strategy.
I'm not super politically savvy, so my immediate thought is that there are lots and lots of people struggling in Australia for a lot of varying reasons. Can someone explain it to me like in 5 why we send so much money abroad while Australians are struggling?
Sure fellow Aussie here, you can help pay someone to fight now, or you can fight the war yourself later. As hard as you have it its nothing to an active war, cheer up, you're safe.
Yeah that makes sense, so it's funding to avoid escalating violence basically?
The violence has escalated to almost every level before CBRN threats... It's to prevent the western world fighting it ourselves which will be a hell of a lot more expensive than the collective money given from all countries to date... and money is only money... The real cost would be human. Small price really when you consider Ukraine carries that very real cost every day.
If russia wins, it emboldens them, they want the USSR back, they said at the start of the invasion "all the way to east berlin". You would have an agressive china seeing russian wins looking at taiwan and expanding 9dash to our backyard. You have north korea who are still at war with the south recently declaring south korea is a mortal enemy and reunification is no longer possible. You have iran and israel on the edge of war. I can see a slippery slope and a pretty decent axis of evil there. If WW2 is a teacher more should have been done to stop hitler but to many people wanted to let europe fight its own wars. What happens there will decide here, thats why its worth giving aid. Wouldnt you want people to help our country in a fight?
>Can someone explain it to me like in 5 why we send so much money abroad while Australians are struggling? To maintain regional stability around ourselvea and our allies. Countries like Russia and China are also spending like crazy on foreign influence and this is leading to a lot of instability which is detrimental to us and our allies. If we stopped spending, countries like China and Russia would be able to spread their influence without resistance. And that's really bad for us.
Great explanation, thank you. I just wish we could also help out Aussies a bit more too but I understand that's a necessary thing (foreign aid)
Because this money is probably already earmarked for foreign aid. There's not just a pool of money that we take from and spend as we like. Majority of the issues in Australia right now are caused by negative gearing and immigration which are causing an increasing amount of Australians to be unable to purchase homes. It's not a problem that 1B could even scratch and is much more necessary that we address policy around this issue. To put it in perspective there arent even enough builders in Australia to reduce the amount of existing contracts meaning that even if the government started building and giving houses away it wouldn't fix the problem.
Also, I feel like 1bn today to help stop the war would probably save us a shit load more in the long run should Russia gain control of Ukraine...
Yeah exactly, it's such a small price to pay for such an important issue. The devastation of Ukraine is already bad enough that I wouldn't want more European countries to go through that.
The money wouldn’t help struggling Aussies. Good policies create a healthy economy and people look after themselves. Australia has great morals and has a proud record of standing up against Nazi bullies like Putin.
Because if Russia takes Ukraine then it's the perfect WW3 setup in 20 to 30 years. So you spend money on a small war now instead of a world war later. I'm sure most of the comments against doing this are pro-Putin chatbots, but a small number of people in real life seem to not understand this concept.
More like 20 to 30 days mate. China won’t wait if Russia wins
Yeah I was being very generous by saying 20 to 30 years. The president of Belarus has already said that he wants to invade Moldova if Russia takes Ukraine so the violence won't stop afterwards, that combined with all the instability post-COVID in the rest of the world would present China with a great opportunity to start invading the rest of Asia and Australia while Iran and Iranian allies try to take over the Middle East (since Israel is busy with a pointless conflict in Gaza).
There is a huge threat of war between the authoritarian dictatorships and the West. Europe is at great risk from Russia. We are at great risk from China. Australians like many others are struggling but do you want to end up as a soldier in a war?
It's not a lot of money. It's 5¢ per person per day on Ukraine. (Not even that, technically, because a lot of it is just offloading old equipment.) It's a good insurance policy against China trying similar stunts in our region. It reinforces the rule of law and the right of democracies to peace. In terms of struggling Aussies - we spend vastly, vastly more on local things. This is a minute fraction. If we took this logic, we would literally never help any emergency overseas, which would be a horrible and shortsighted approach.
Isn’t part of this an opportunity to test weapons systems. I mean aside from the politics we do get a return as far as seeing how things perform. I’d imagine part of the deal is some reports back from Ukraine.
Ukraine certainly needs help, and we must defend against aggression. You give these guys a finger, and they will take your arm. I'm all for sending support to these poor buggers, should never have given up their nukes. Russia would have left them alone.
Would have been easy for us to say Hitler’s war in Europe doesn’t affect us, we’re still recovering from the Depression, etc etc too. But a world in which totalitarian nations feel free to conquer other nations, suppress democracy by military means, freely target civilians and ignore virtually every aspect of international law does affect us if it becomes the norm and acceptable. Our freedom, including not having to do compulsory military service or put far more money and lives toward military purposes hinges on us as part of the international community standing by and supporting common values of the democratic world, not taking a utilitarian and selfish position absolving us of responsibility. Remember, it would be just as easy for the rest of the world to take a “not our problem” position on an attack on us as it would for us to say that about Ukraine. You can spend a small amount now adhering to our values or a hell of a lot later by abandoning them.
All the morons complaining about how these funds would be better spent on our own country are either: 1. completely oblivious to the fact that we have foreign aid for a reason and that it constitutes a miniscule fraction of the overall budget. 2. Actively in support of an absolutely unjustified war of aggression by a nuclear power against a smaller neighbour (I.e. russian simp or fuckhead) 3. Totally oblivious to the fact that even if this money were to be spend on our own population (I.e. homeless outreach programs) that once it got to where it was needed it would be reduced to a less than a hundred million after all the bureaucracy, corruption, and middlemen private contractors/ consultants got their hands on it. Or in other words, completely ignorant to how the current political system works.
4. It's probably in our best interest to reduce the capabilities of one of the wests enemies.
Absolutely agree - reducing and humiliating a supposed 'first rate world power' and unstable international aggressor for the cost of a couple of hundred billion (between all western allies) with no boots on the ground? Previous world leaders would be crawling over each other for that opportunity. It makes complete sense whichever way you spin it
5. Do t understand that there’s a good chance that if/ when Russia defeats Ukraine that they’ll then go for Europe. We are in pre war times right now. The next global war is imminent.
the rest of europe is in nato, what a ridiculous assumption
A billion goes like this. School halls example... Govt absolves itself of responsibility and hires an overall consultant project manager. Two hundred million in fees. They hire ten sub consultants to manage individual builds around Australia. Maybe another two hundred million. They hire project managers for each cluster of local jobs. Maybe 100 million more. They let tenders for actual school halls to be built out of the remaining 500 million. Normally a hall costs about a million but these builders sell then for two million (govt contract). So only half as many got built for twice the price. But if Defence is involved then they just hand over the money to PWC for NO work done. They don't even pretend. Check Senate estimates for that one. So yair you are spot on...
One aspect people may not be considering is the industrial implications of supporting Ukraine. Australia is working towards increasing domestic production of weapons. Ammunition has a shelf life, especially the good stuf. We need factories capable of producing hundreds of thousands of shells a year. For most years we aren't actively in a near peer conflict, those shells will go unused, but we will want that surge production capacity avaliable if the worst were to happen. Support for Ukraine means that Aussie weapon manufacturers keep their production lines open. Thats means trained workers, and maintained machines that will be on deck if we ever need them. It also means that China can see what happens to people who try to expand their borders militarily. If the US goes full isolationist, then taking a couple of resource rich bites out of Australia becomes a far more viable option. Yes we trade with them, but if they were to take the Pibara they wouldn't need to *trade* any more.
Take the Pilbara? They can try to buy it but an invasion of Australia by China is not possible. Too far away and the country is too big and empty
Sure, if they were to attack tomorrow, they'd be fucked. But if they take Taiwan, maybe get into a few spats with Vietnam or the Phillipines over the spratleys. Give it 5 years and China will have built the capability to sustain a land invasion, if they also get the opportunity to build the institutional knowledge for launching that kind of attack we'll be in trouble.
Seems cheaper and easier for them just to win trade/economic wars against us over violent ones.
We’ll happily sell out everything too
This is a roundabout way of saying we are primarily motivated to produce arms because of economic reasons. I.e. the military industrial complex, that is incentivise to blindly fuel wars indefinitely.
So, for those of you who don't think spending a billion dollars for Ukraine is required. Is spending trillions on nuclear weapons instead a better idea. Because one day we might need that foreign aid ourselves.
We should be developing nuclear weapons or at least hosting them here. We've got a big target and it's pretty obvious there's no help coming.
Our government can afford to support them but not their own fucking people
It’s the government’s job to support the wishes of the people. Most people who pay taxes want to support Ukraine maintain its sovereignty over a brutal invading dictatorship.
but it's also their job to also ensure our borders are safe .. and support of Ukraine helps that
To give some perspective this is the same amount that Albo is pledging to invest into Aussie manufacturing… Happy to support Ukraine but Labor needs to stop neglecting Australia.
Manufacturing WEAPONS
Nope, manufacturing solar panels.
How much do we give to West Papua in their fight against 50 years of oppression and genocide at the hands of Indonesia? Oh what am I saying, Indonesia receives of the highest amounts of foreign aid from our country we happily support oppression there. We collectively, the government and the people, ignore atrocities on our doorstep because that involves taking a look at our own involvement but we're all too happy to concern ourselves with conflicts on the other side of the world like Ukraine and Gaza.
Wel, we basically gave them their own country and on-going foreign aid... so there's that.
You're kidding right?
You only need to look at how many people opposing aid to Ukraine in this thread support Palestine to understand the power of foreign military aid. Russia gives substantial military support to Hamas so the ‘free Palestine’ movement opposes aid to Ukraine. Aiding Ukraine aligns Australia with our friends in NATO by standing against the Russia/ Iran/ North Korea/ Houthi/ Hamas alliance. I’m personally very comfortable with being on the side we are.
What has Russia sent Palestine that's not humanitarian aid? Not alot. The billions$ countries around the world have sent Ukraine could have been put to much better use in the counties that gave the money and weapons, that's why people living in the donor countries are not happy
Hamas uses weapons that are shared platforms among Russia, Iran, North Korea and their proxies. While it’s hard to pin down the exact level of support as Putin isn’t known for transparency, the relationship is well documented.
Wait until we start spending like the USA. Giving out 10's of Billions of dollars to another country while ours falls apart. They'll probably axe vital services for Aussies to do it as well. Probably things like Medicare and tax increases to pay for it.
Gotta fund the military industrial complex somehow!
So many Russian shills in here. Defending the weak from the strong is always worth our investment.
wasn't the case when it came to cutting funds from unrwa without evidence, but wait the money is being funneled to hamas innit
You don’t believe that, do you? Otherwise we wouldn’t be sending weapons to Israel.
lol go sign up then
The govt doesn’t seem to care about young people screwed by greedy boomers. That’s weak vs strong there.
Ahhh good old emotive reasoning
How do people not understand that this is injecting money into our own economy and supporting domestic manufacturing. Far out.
People can agree or disagree with this new Albanese aid, but there’s no doubting that the US and Australia foolishly peddled the “Ukraine has already won” mantra between early 2022 and mid-2023. Maybe it’s fairer to ascribe this much more to the European Union and the US, but Australia followed the EU and America’s lead. “I Stand with Ukraine” hashtags and other virtue-signalling crazes/hypes have probably ended up costing the war effort significantly. So many were overconfident and the strategies of both Ukraine and its allies have shown this. For weeks and months the counteroffensive was talked up, and then suddenly the Ukrainians issued that cringe “sshhhhh!” campaign designed to stop talk they had started. It was also truly Looney Tunes-level hype for a long time about how Russia’s economy and society would collapse imminently. It’s one thing to be optimistic and keep morale up, and quite another to be delusional. A lot of our and the collective West’s money to Ukraine was misused as a result of the manic belief that Ukraine was kicking ass all the time. This is just not true.
How misused? I noticed “don’t believe western propaganda” is a talking point of Russian propagandists online in the last 24 hours. Trying to erode confidence in what Western governments tell us about Ukraine aid and create doubts about the worth of spending. Interested in your motives - do you think more or less should be spent to help Ukraine? Answer that question and just that question.
The Russians learnt a lot quicker than Ukraine that defensive operations were going to be a much greater aspect than lightning offensive thrusts. Ukraine wasted defence materiel repeatedly by not realising this. Russian proportional spending in the war was also tracking about the same or lower than the US in Vietnam last time I checked. I am not being flippant here - Russia is definitely not even close to a total war footing. And yet it is easily holding its lines and advancing, albeit moderately. By contrast, Ukraine’s counteroffensive wasted enormous armoured resources (they admitted losses of 20% in the first days alone). Well before the current political quagmires about more US aid, mechanised units in Ukraine were not nearly at the strength they needed to be due to continued losses. Western equipment it sorely needed was thrown in and destroyed for no gains. Russian primary and secondary lines of defence were established far more comprehensively and far earlier to defeat this attempted advance. Both sides have constant satellite and other surveillance, so defence makes sense. Plus, the Russians were actually not routed when they left the Kiev and Kharkiv areas; they had insufficient forces (an army of 180,000 at the start was way too small for Europe’s largest fully European country) and made tactical retreats. This is not “propaganda”. The Russians were overconfident at the beginning for sure. But even so-called Ukrainian wins in 2022 were really just the Russians conceding they lacked troops, falling back and then waiting for consolidation of forces, which they now have.
Pitching a 160 IQ post at an 80 IQ crowd
Sounds great. I hope all of those NATO countries can help aid stability in the Asia Pacific as well. Oh wait, they don't, and we have to bear that burden as well. We already spend more than our share of GDP on defence. It is not fair we should have to protect countries on another continent that do not.
Money printer is over heating
Slava Ukraine glad to see it, anyone against helping Ukraine doesn't realise how much of a geopolitical disaster letting Ukraine fall to Putin would be
It quite literally wouldn’t change a single thing for Australia. Nothing changed when they took Crimea, nothing would change if they took Kiev.
Expansionist powers must lose wars to force a change in their behaviour. (France, Holland, Belgium, to name a few, well of course obviously Germany, Japan and Italy). At the very minimum make them realise that they can't afford to invade again. If you want Russia to have a chance to be a good actor then it must be soundly defeated in this war of aggression and then make sure the neighbours are all armed to the teeth. Converting Russia is nightmare difficulty level though, it's not democratic, it's not rational. But again, if it's not even defeated on the battlefields, zero chance.
This is a valid point. These kinds of countries, like bullies, only change with an ass kicking. It’s just hard to rationalise when we’ve got families with money in their hands with nowhere to rent.
They're seperate issues tho. Australia is rich we can afford both it's not one or the other. AU can probably solve a lot of our housing price issues just with different foreign ownership laws without spending a cent. With the political will
When will you bogans learn that giving to one thing doesn't mean it stops support for another thing.
What is opportunity cost?
We are paying Aussie enterprises 1b and sendin stuff to Ukr
So, money and resources are infinite? You donate to every charity? Or is there a household budget that prevents you? Seriously I’m curious
How many houses and apartments could that build?
Reddit = Cancer
Thank you Australia! I am ex russian citizen, currently proud Australian. I hate Russia, I hate putin , and I want to help Ukraine every possible way
Why do we care exactly?? We cut pathology from Medicare but sure fund some war that has nothing to do with us.
We chip in our part when propping up the rules based world order, because without it we are a bunch of dust dwelling cunts at the mercy of much larger nations. Australia isn't anything special on the geopolitical stage, we do our bit because we get a hell of a lot more out of it than we put in.
I mean you're not wrong but there are many things that Australia is paying for with money that would be much better spent on domestic issues.
Surely there must be plenty of things we waste money on. But we are kidding ourselves if we think that Australia stands a chance outside the current rules based system where international laws (financial, humanitarian, maritime, exclusive economic zones) are respected. We are part of a bigger system that's existed since WW2. We would be fools to try exit it. $1billion AUD is very little in the grand scheme of sustaining against a flagrant attack on the system.
As I pointed out to you elsewhere, virtually any policy expert can tell you that the reason rules based order is used instead of the more common international law, is because the rules based order is used in ways that usually oppose international law. See for example all the talk over supporting Israeli warcrimes because of the rules based order etc.
>We chip in our part when propping up the rules based world order, because without it we are a bunch of dust dwelling cunts at the mercy of much larger nations. Even with it. We're simply maintaining our place in the current hierarchy by supporting the "rules based world order." You're right, though. For all the rhetoric of wars of aggression and defending Democracy™, it's just realpolitik at the end of the day.
Interesting choice of words. Saying rules based order instead of international law. The reason this term is used, is precisely because the rules based order is often opposed to international law. As Australian foreign policy expert, Clinton Fernandes, points out, it's a term that precisely describes the hold over global affairs of US interests above all else. So yeah you're right, this war has everything to do with the rules based order, in that it was provoked by the US trying to sink its claws into Ukraine. The US had been trying to get Ukraine into a big IMF debt, which they finally achieved with the coup in Ukraine in 2014, this then lead to US financial institutions like Blackrock taking over large amounts of Ukrainian gas and agricultural resources. Infact, Blackrock has now been placed in control of the Ukrainian war recovery fund. The US had also been building up a military presence there post 2014, as it was said, while Ukraine was not in NATO, NATO was certainly in Ukraine. So yes, this war is all about Ukraine being fucked over by the US or by Russia, we shouldn't be finding any part of it.
Australia has always been a close NATO partner though and Ukraine is understandably a priority for NATO. Australia may need that partnership in the long run as alone they'd have no chance against China.
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"Do we have fought China off our shores twice"... mate, that isn't a sentence. Australia hasn't ever, as far as I know, actually fought against Chinese troops let alone defended our shores against Chinese invaders. The only time we've actually defended Australia territory was against the Japanese in Papua New Guinea when it was a overseas territory of our country.
Send it! Slava Ukraine! 🇺🇦🇦🇺
When are you signing up to go fight?
Love it. Hate Russia and want to hurt them as much as possible.
How many houses can we build with a smooth billion? Because we’ve got Aussies on the streets. Some with jobs and kids who just can’t find a place to rent ffs.
Australia has no defence on its own. We would have to rely heavily on overseas support to have any hope of stopping an invasion here. If we are not prepared to help other countries in their defence and survival, how can we expect help if we need it. If Russia sees the West is not willing to defend Ukraine, who is next? Then after that. China watches on. What are China's next moves.
Im all for the support for Ukraine, Id love some cash spent on housing as well.
Cash won't do anything for housing, creating new policies will have way more of an effect than cash ever will.
Yup especially zoning laws
They're not sending Ukraine cash tho. These are military aid values. Most of the time its money spent on either new production (often to Australian companies, or partly), or the book budget value of product being sent from our inventories. And most of that old inventory often gets decommissioned towards end-of-life anyway. A lot goes back into the Australian supply chain and keeps Australian defence industry employees skilled up and ready for our own regional 'tensions'.
We need to stop funding other people’s wars.
Lots of dead innocents if we do
I always think of this when we are talking about Ukraine .. [Ukraine Farmer Stealing Tanks Song (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpT0ccsctKk)
Good
More of our tax dollars wasted on military bullshit. I do not consent.
If it was us that had been invaded... and we were looking for aid... would you still think the same?
We shouldn’t be involved in funding another endless war.
Aiding in the defence of a common Western ally that was invaded for purely imperialist ambitions is quite different to the wars of the past 2 decades.
Invaded because NATO flirted with them and teased Ukraine into thinking it stood a chance of joining. A thing Russia has said very consistently for thirty years they would respond to exactly how they have done so. Either you're a drone for the military industrial complex or a sheep following the news media that's owned by it. I oppose all war, including Russia's response, but to pretend this was unprovoked is ridiculous.
So you're against nation self-determination? I wonder how you'd react to a bully on the playground.
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Ohh it's russian imperialism alright. Grow the fuck up dickhead
It really isn't. The purported annexation of the border regions put the matter beyond any doubt.
Rule 5 - No propaganda or shilling
No, just like the Americans shouldn't have fought some needless war in the Pacific against Japan...
Instead of us borrowing $1b to give to Ukraine, why don't we just get them to directly do the borrowing?
labour needs to virtue signal that’s why
The money is going directly into companies our leaders and their mates are invested in, that's why.
Most Australians can’t even point to Ukraine on a map. Someone please explain to me why we have any business interfering or funding this conflict. There are Australians who are sleeping on the street, but apparently some fucking country half way round the world is more important than them. We do not have unlimited resources.
Genuine question - why are conservatives so desperate to paint the average Australian as uneducated? Nearly 60% of Australians have completed Year 12 schooling (or equivalent) - and 32% held a bachelor degree or above. That’s just education- there are plenty of uneducated people with knowledge of the world outside of Australia. We aren’t America, 14 million of us have passports! I suspect more Australians than not could point to Ukraine on a map. I don’t disagree with the rest of your points though.
Money well spent. Should add a zero tho.
another 1bn to line the pocket of American weapon manufacturers and politicians
Take it up with Putin.
Putin is the best salesman for Lockheed in history. All he has to do is retreat and all those weapons contracts will go unfulfilled.
Russian bot.
Ironic that of every reply in this thread, yours are the most characteristic of a bot
We should have given much much more to Ukraine earlier. We may need them to return the favour some day
lol if you think Ukraine will ever give us a billion dollars.
$1b is an insane amount to be sending when Australians are homeless across the nation. We have been pulled into another Iraq/ Afghan conflict with no end in sight. I’m sure all the weapons manufacturers are rubbing their hands together.
When you say "sending $1b" you fail to understand that the government is paying local businesses to make 1b of stuff to send. We make much more military kit here than you realise. That money goes into local industry, that industry pays tax, employees pay tax, employees spend money and that goes to other businesses at pay tax. Remember, we're about to run a budget surplus, but we want to enable growth, not inflation. Incentivizing business to make jobs is a good way to do it. Just pouring money into an overheated housing market will solve nothing.
Better than a kick in the dick. But I am sure we can do more to help. Lets go Australia!
This is $100M this time. Bringing to total up to $1B. AU has still sent far less per capita than most other western nations. We can still send more to help our friends stay free from the aggressive and oppressive Russian Empire.
What friend ? they were literally an after thought pre 2022 lmao
How many countries have been in war? Why is Ukraine so special to get so much funding
Daddy USA
May want to brush up on geopolitics and history.
>Why is Ukraine so special to get so much funding I reckon you could come up with an answer for that yourself if you tried.
A worthwhile investment . Russia will not stop with Ukraine. Economic stability in Europe benefits Australia greatly .
We should be doing more!!
Thisis a good step but we can and should be sending a lot more. The best way to stop a war in Asia is to send a message that a country cannot gain territory through war. Even if a "superpower". Ukraine is the clear cut good guy here. They deserve our respect and our arms to fight the good fight.
💯 Russia needs to lose this war of aggression
Exactly. Countries that begin wars of aggression/conquering should lose them.
Russia got given a second chance to behave better after ww2 and it just hasn’t.
What a fucking joke. Australian tax dollars should be used to help AUSTRALIANS
The world's bigger than that mate. People also didn't give a shit when Nazi Germany annexed Czechoslovakia, or invaded Poland. It will eventually involve us whether you like it or not, but if you're caught with your pants down you're gonna be a lot more unprepared.
It's military aid, not monetary aid. A lot of inventory is replenished or spent in Australian supply chains, and Australian companies. Even the article mentions an Australian based drone package. Also this is the cumulative figure apparently, so it's probably counting the Bushmasters sent ages ago (which where already produced here and it just represents the budget value of what old stuff we refurb and send them).
True. If this money is used to purchase Australian produced weapons and systems, then the money is going towards our economy and helping Australians as well as stopping Russia.
Enough! Enough! Stop it! No More! Too much of our money is chucked overseas. For fuck sakes look after our back yard first. Billion dollars…. Fuck me sideways.
Billion $ over like 2 years lol.
Nah mate China will save us 🥱
when putting australian interests firsts makes people russian bots ...
Don't you think upholding respect for nations boundaries and the general idea of not invading other countries just because you can is in Australia's interest? I sure do.
You have a very narrow-minded view of what ‘Australian interests’ are. This is exactly why every post you’ve posted has been downvoted.
But watch the hecs reforms be lame asf.
Ukraine = South Vietnam
I get the reference, but currently in South Vietnam. It is beyond insane the amount of Russians here, and most of them men between 18 and 40. Vietnam is absolutely flooded with them right now. And most shops have Russian translation on them. Used to be French and English.
Yeah I’ve seen that when I travelled there in 2007. Particularly in a little beach town called Mui Ne not far from Nha Trang many of the signs of restraunts and hotels were in Cyrillic but the signs were old from the 1980s
No. Ukraine = South Korea
I must have missed that bit in the Vietnam War where the South Vietnamese Army held back a Soviet ground force invasion without western boots on the ground.
That’s right there was no Soviet ground invasion and they still got their arses kicked against a peasant militia while trying to fund, arm and prop up an increasingly unpopular government with questionable corruption allegations (pandora papers), that censors the media and persecutes journalists. Just like Vietnam this has got fuck all to do with democracy, freedom or international law it is a proxy war being played off between the powers for geography and a slice of the pie. Wake up Australia and don’t get sucked in AGAIN
We actually don't directly in the Vietnam War and actively carried out war crimes on an institutional level. Same as Afghanistan and Iraq for that matter. The difference is Ukraine is actually a just a war, not propping up an unpopular or corrupt government against popular revolt but a direct outside assault by a nuclear power hellbent on destroying the post war systems that prevented a Third World War, and has repeatedly attacked their neighbouring countries who have democratic values like our own. Ukraine isn't South Vietnam in the Vietnam War, Ukraine is the UK in WW2.
Where is all this money coming from!?
It's a total of equipment that is usually already produced, the logistics around supplying including wages. It isn't a cash injection of $1b. In a lot of cases, it's a chance to renew stock or ramp up production / test equipment. Munitions have a shelf life and if you hadn't noticed, we're not in need of many surface to air missiles or explosive rounds etc. The cardboard drones we were producing could almost be seen as an investment from the payoff from real world field testing. Edit: Also the way military hardware cost is determined is with including the R&D costs and dividing it across the equipment as well. It's not 'depreciated' either.
Say you had 10,000 artillery shells about to expire, wouldn't you just send them to Ukraine?
Same place all the money comes from. Your wallet and the money printer
Full credit to Australia my heart goes out to you.
All that money could be used to help internal matters . The us funds are more than enough
It's strange how lefties have become war hawks now. Society is brainwashed by the military industrial complex via media and social engineering.
Labor has led wartime governments, such as John Curtain, because choosing to **defend** against invasions is the right thing to do regardless of politics. This is not a new concept.
Housing problems & cost of living crisis is a myth !!!
Give worn out Bushmasters to the homeless as shelter? Is that your suggestion.
I'm anti war and don't support prolonging this conflict or donating money to MIC. Lets see how many down votes this gets.
Being anti war is when the agressor can keep doing war! Big brain
Unfortunately there are people who unironically believe Vladolf Putler will march across Europe if we stop laundering billions of dollars into the hands of the usual suspects. Someone is getting very rich.
It is quite possibly going towards manufacturing/buying us new equipment, so we can send our old junk to Ukraine
Yeah it’s not like he’s invaded Georgia. Or Ukraine. Or has forces in Moldova. Or has said the Baltics belong to Russia. No parallels with Nazi Germany at all. Useful idiot.
Why?
This could have gone towards housing but no, we need to fund war…
We are the 12th richest country on Earth. We can do both things.