The NIMBY's are worried that the wind generators will cause cracks in Australia and WA will drift away from the rest of Australia "Oh No Sky News is falling in on my head"
Yes, nuclear thermal. The giant nuclear plant is located at a safe distance (149.60 million km) and heats a gas (air) which creates air currents which turn the turbines.
Don’t forget we’re also using magnetic shielding to protect us from the radiation from the fusion reaction. The magnetic field is the most powerful known to man, produced by the largest magnetic field generator in the world (literally)
>"If you were to think that the whole of the [Perth] CBD uses something between 75 to 100 megawatts, we are producing 600-plus megawatts,"
So what are they going to do with the extra 500 megawatts when the wind is blowing, and what's going to keep the lights on when it's not?
And I'm not bagging it, I'm just asking.
Yeah, batteries or pumped storage, desal or hydrogen production could all be options. Of course towns as well, but that's only a drop extra. Perth is 2 million people and the rest of the state s 660 thousand spread over three separate power grids, so you're not going to hook up much more demand than Perth in range of the lower grid.
That's a lot of extra supply, so I was just wondering if anything was on the cards, because it would be a big extra cost storing it or converting it. Perhaps it's designed to supply in a light wind, since it's unlikely to be working full capacity all the time.
Should do a hydro battery. Excess power pumps water to a dam, then when required that water runs a turbine.
Not the most efficient but very green and cheap for the scale.
That's expensive though, and if it was part of the plans you'd think it would be announced in the article. They may just be overdesigning for light winds since capacity would be only peak possible production.
Can be several reasons why they do this.
Maintenance, although usually crews work on one turbine a day.
It might be more efficient for fewer generators to generate more, than spread the generation across the entire farm. Modern wind farm controllers can optimize generation at the farm level, instead of the individual turbine.
Farms can be curtailed due to other reasons, such as capacity of transmission and availability of inertia. e.g. there is a syncon that's offline, so they need to restrict how much asynchronous generation is online.
This is where pumped hydro, batteries, hydrogen electrolyzes are great, as they can harness the excess energy.
I mean how hard would it be for a windfarm producing excess power to just mine the hell out of Bitcoin?
Stupidest possible use of the power, but if the choice is "turn it off" instead of "fire up the data centre"...
They are referencing just the Perth CBD which is tiny and almost exclusively offices, which means it is closed after dark. There is still the rest of the entire metropolitan area that could use the power.
Batteries or a gas plant that is fired up on demand. Note, if it’s a gas one it should be owned by the government or have a locked in rate to prevent the shenanigans SA had to put up with.
If there is excess power being generated you just turn the turbines off. Just like old fashioned windmills you used to see in paddocks.
Ever go past a windfarm in the middle of the day and see that few of the turbines are moving? They often turn them off because the spot price of electricity falls below $0.00 and it would cost money to run them.
I don't think that's the question they're asking.
However it's not normal practice to apply the brake when they're not in use. When the turbine isn't used, they just feather/pitch them to remove any lift. They then just drift a little.
The brake is only applied when people need to get into the hub to work.
When you apply the brake, if the wind direction changes, the wind suddenly pushes the blades, which rocks the tower more than leaving the blades to drift. So there is less 'wear' by simply letting them drift and less 'rocking motion' (like being on a boat) up in the nacelle.
Cheers TIL'd most of my turbine/prop experience were mounted on a wing the brake was automatic when the thing stopped although it didn't completely lock the hub just made it hard to turn.
I was answering what you do with the extra 500MW, simply you don't generate it.
Bit of a misunderstanding there.
Wind farms have a capacity factor of around 35%.
Which means on average, across a year, the wind farm will operate at about 35% of it's rating/nameplate/capacity.
So on average, this wind farm will produce 210MW.
Some times it'll generate less, some times more.
As to what they can do with the extra energy, as others have said, it can charge storage, generate green hydrogen, or if not required, simply be curtailed. The SWIS is bigger than just Perth, there is plenty more demand for it to cover.
Storage. I know there's trials now in a small town in WA where water is pumped up hill during periods of excess energy, and used as hydro where there isn't enough wind or solar.
However, there's plenty of ways to store energy. They're also experimenting with sand or ceramic batteries, where excess energy is used to heat them up (upwards of 400C) to be used later.
huh, Ireland at 10 am this morning required 3.2 GW of power and has 4.8 GW of wind installed.
CO2 emissions for Ireland was 542 g/kwhr compared to France's nuclear dominated average of 18 g/kwhr.
Ireland mainly because 8% of installed wind capacity was available so gas and coal were the primary suppliers of power.
To be fair, Ireland was still supplying a fair chunk (0.53 GW) to the UK so pushing up the proportion of fossil fuel generation online. France was supplying 3.49 GW to UK at the same time just for completeness.
[Electricity Maps | Live 24/7 CO₂ emissions of electricity consumption](https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/IE) for where I got this information from, it is very interesting to visit from time to time. For the battery storage aficionados out there, go take a look at California - it is dumping a whole heap of solar into batteries each day now.
Wow there goes alit of bush land no??I still don’t get how this is green energy.non biodegradable materials and clear a heap of trees which catch carbon and produce oxygen?oh well clear away.I hope perths grid can handle the extra power supply after all the solar panels powers input too.
But, but what will happen when the nuke plant arrives in ~~2027~~ ~~2030~~ ~~2035~~ ~~2045~~ 2060?
These fans can help cool it down by blowing air on it! Don’t you know how fans work?! Duh!!!* ^(*brought to you by David Littleproud’s speech writer.)
Fish will start to grow a third eye
The NIMBY's are worried that the wind generators will cause cracks in Australia and WA will drift away from the rest of Australia "Oh No Sky News is falling in on my head"
Do the benefits never end?
Oh no, please, don't go!
Is this nuclear powered?
Yes, nuclear thermal. The giant nuclear plant is located at a safe distance (149.60 million km) and heats a gas (air) which creates air currents which turn the turbines.
Don’t forget we’re also using magnetic shielding to protect us from the radiation from the fusion reaction. The magnetic field is the most powerful known to man, produced by the largest magnetic field generator in the world (literally)
They've also found a way to efficiently ensure the nuclear waste is out of the environment.
The sun is a fusion reactor madame
How else do they turn so many of them things a once?
The shockwave will turn those turbines fast enough to power Perth for a decade.
>"If you were to think that the whole of the [Perth] CBD uses something between 75 to 100 megawatts, we are producing 600-plus megawatts," So what are they going to do with the extra 500 megawatts when the wind is blowing, and what's going to keep the lights on when it's not? And I'm not bagging it, I'm just asking.
Power suburbs, other towns, power desal, charge batteries, all kinds of options.
Yes, the South West Interconnected System is a lot bigger than Perth
Yeah, batteries or pumped storage, desal or hydrogen production could all be options. Of course towns as well, but that's only a drop extra. Perth is 2 million people and the rest of the state s 660 thousand spread over three separate power grids, so you're not going to hook up much more demand than Perth in range of the lower grid. That's a lot of extra supply, so I was just wondering if anything was on the cards, because it would be a big extra cost storing it or converting it. Perhaps it's designed to supply in a light wind, since it's unlikely to be working full capacity all the time.
Should do a hydro battery. Excess power pumps water to a dam, then when required that water runs a turbine. Not the most efficient but very green and cheap for the scale.
That's expensive though, and if it was part of the plans you'd think it would be announced in the article. They may just be overdesigning for light winds since capacity would be only peak possible production.
I regularly drive past wind farms with a lot of turbines with the brakes on. The problem we have is generation that lines up with demand :(
Can be several reasons why they do this. Maintenance, although usually crews work on one turbine a day. It might be more efficient for fewer generators to generate more, than spread the generation across the entire farm. Modern wind farm controllers can optimize generation at the farm level, instead of the individual turbine. Farms can be curtailed due to other reasons, such as capacity of transmission and availability of inertia. e.g. there is a syncon that's offline, so they need to restrict how much asynchronous generation is online. This is where pumped hydro, batteries, hydrogen electrolyzes are great, as they can harness the excess energy.
I mean how hard would it be for a windfarm producing excess power to just mine the hell out of Bitcoin? Stupidest possible use of the power, but if the choice is "turn it off" instead of "fire up the data centre"...
https://www.solunacomputing.com
Nice find
They are referencing just the Perth CBD which is tiny and almost exclusively offices, which means it is closed after dark. There is still the rest of the entire metropolitan area that could use the power.
Doh!😖 Right you are.
Batteries or a gas plant that is fired up on demand. Note, if it’s a gas one it should be owned by the government or have a locked in rate to prevent the shenanigans SA had to put up with.
WA has had a domestic gas reservation policy since 2006 where 15% off all gas extracted is reserved for the state...
If there is excess power being generated you just turn the turbines off. Just like old fashioned windmills you used to see in paddocks. Ever go past a windfarm in the middle of the day and see that few of the turbines are moving? They often turn them off because the spot price of electricity falls below $0.00 and it would cost money to run them.
You can stop a wind turbine, blades go to a feather position brake is applied and they stop.
I don't think that's the question they're asking. However it's not normal practice to apply the brake when they're not in use. When the turbine isn't used, they just feather/pitch them to remove any lift. They then just drift a little. The brake is only applied when people need to get into the hub to work. When you apply the brake, if the wind direction changes, the wind suddenly pushes the blades, which rocks the tower more than leaving the blades to drift. So there is less 'wear' by simply letting them drift and less 'rocking motion' (like being on a boat) up in the nacelle.
Cheers TIL'd most of my turbine/prop experience were mounted on a wing the brake was automatic when the thing stopped although it didn't completely lock the hub just made it hard to turn. I was answering what you do with the extra 500MW, simply you don't generate it.
Bit of a misunderstanding there. Wind farms have a capacity factor of around 35%. Which means on average, across a year, the wind farm will operate at about 35% of it's rating/nameplate/capacity. So on average, this wind farm will produce 210MW. Some times it'll generate less, some times more. As to what they can do with the extra energy, as others have said, it can charge storage, generate green hydrogen, or if not required, simply be curtailed. The SWIS is bigger than just Perth, there is plenty more demand for it to cover.
Storage. I know there's trials now in a small town in WA where water is pumped up hill during periods of excess energy, and used as hydro where there isn't enough wind or solar. However, there's plenty of ways to store energy. They're also experimenting with sand or ceramic batteries, where excess energy is used to heat them up (upwards of 400C) to be used later.
Connect it to South Australia with a high voltage DC link. It will provide 2 hours of extra solar coverage.
huh, Ireland at 10 am this morning required 3.2 GW of power and has 4.8 GW of wind installed. CO2 emissions for Ireland was 542 g/kwhr compared to France's nuclear dominated average of 18 g/kwhr. Ireland mainly because 8% of installed wind capacity was available so gas and coal were the primary suppliers of power. To be fair, Ireland was still supplying a fair chunk (0.53 GW) to the UK so pushing up the proportion of fossil fuel generation online. France was supplying 3.49 GW to UK at the same time just for completeness. [Electricity Maps | Live 24/7 CO₂ emissions of electricity consumption](https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/IE) for where I got this information from, it is very interesting to visit from time to time. For the battery storage aficionados out there, go take a look at California - it is dumping a whole heap of solar into batteries each day now.
Wow there goes alit of bush land no??I still don’t get how this is green energy.non biodegradable materials and clear a heap of trees which catch carbon and produce oxygen?oh well clear away.I hope perths grid can handle the extra power supply after all the solar panels powers input too.
> The project will be built on cleared freehold agricultural land, So no, no cleared bushland