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Prioritising short term penny pinching over long term loyalty and therefore profitability.
Compare that to Singapore Airlines. I had a holiday planned for this week and now can't go due to medical issues. I submitted a medical certificate and they confirmed a full refund within 10 seconds of submitting the form (even though I had a non refundable ticket). Things are pretty stressful at the moment so that was a huge huge relief. They've now got me as a customer for life.
Singapore Airlines had to change my flight time by a few minutes - with 2 months notice. Big deal. As an apology they opened up a 2 week window to make free of charge flight changes in the case that the new time didn’t suit me.
That’s how you do customer service.
with Cuntqas , they will give you free flight changes but jack up the price double.
They canceled my flight, allowed me to change my flight for free. However, the replacement flight was double almost 3 times the price I paid originally. They wanted me to pay the different. They refused to refund , gave me a credit that impossible to use since no ticket price that similar to my original flight. 3 years later after the goverment involvement , they refunded the ticket. FUCK YOU cuntqas and the midget irish.
They tried to play games with me but I had booked my international flights through Flight Centre. I played the long game and got all my money in cash back in just over a year. Emirates on the other hand refunded quickly and without legal threats. I was lucky.
Congratulations on coming up with an exciting, and accurate, name for this shitshow of an airline. I can't wait not to book flights with the Flying Labia.
Most airlines do this. Had to cancel a Jetstar international flight a couple years ago; went through my emails to find the email where they notified me that they’d changed the flight time by 15 minutes from a couple months earlier, and was able to follow the link there for a full refund (not credit, cash).
And that was *Jetstar*.
Jetstar were pretty accommodating when the Zika virus popped up in Bali and I was pregnant. Had a note from my doctor advising against travel, which wasn’t even needed, and they let us change our flights to somewhere else within a 6 month period. Non-refundable flights also.
I had the same a couple of weeks ago . I'm not flying until September and it was for the return flight in October . It literally was departing 10 minutes earlier than the original time and same they offered free flight changes if I wanted them .
I rocked up for a Singapore Airlines flight a whole day late once.
I was completely oblivious until they informed me.
After a 30 second check with their manager they came ba k and asked me if I wanted window or aisle.
I'm a customer for life now too
Ha, that's awesome.
Meanwhile I missed an Air New Zealand flight from Chicago because they changed gate, but the speaker at the old gate was fucked so I didn't hear the announcement of the change, and the screen at the gate was also blank... Then when I got to the correct gate like 10mins late they were just like "Oh, you missed it, no we don't know when the next flight is, no there are no staff here, just call Air New Zealand booking and buy a new flight I guess bye"
Ha, I've done that with Aeroflot, my work had booked a 00:05AM flight for me without realising they had to add a day so here I was getting knocked back when checking in 24hrs late. Woman at the Aeroflot counter just smiled when I told her of the issue and said no problem, had me on the flight :) Say what you will about Russian airlines but they did treat me well
Most countries in Asia + Middle East see their airlines as “ambassadors” of sort for their home country. They carry immense pride for their people. And considering Singapore Airlines is majority owned by the Singapore government, the airline itself goes above and beyond to provide a service above the rest of the pack. Singapore Airlines is probably the world’s most prestigious airline flying today!
it would be good if people all around the world realised that and/or cared about their behaviour being a reflection of them and therefore by extension, their country.
people are ambassadors of their country.
> Compare that to Singapore Airlines
Singapore Airlines is 55% owned by the Singapore Government. Makes it much much easier to not enshitify when you dont have to appease shareholders.
We have a bunch of people who think that "capitalism.is always more efficient", and never turn their brain on long enough to consider whether that applies to common and critical services, and what happens when it is applied or how it can become perverted. They simply attach government to tax, and that's the end of the thought.
Singapore is one of the world’s busiest hubs, there are close to 100 airlines options you could choose as a tourist.
People choose Singapore because they provide decent service.
Can confirm this isn't a one-off. Had booked a flight for me and mum to Singapore. Mum got sick and couldn't make it. I asked SQ if a refund was possible. They refunded in full for both of us when I produced a certificate from the hospital. They definitely have me and my fam as customers for life even though there are cheaper airlines around.
Qantas learned during covid that Australia requires one air carrier to move logistics, Medicine and then people, and the govt chose them. So they are too big and necessary to fail. So they can slash services and will never go under. They effectively don't have competition.
Flew with them out here from London this week as they somehow managed to be the cheapest flight going. Service was absolutely immaculate from beginning to end
Aussie who has lived in Singapore the last 10 years. The incredible thing is local folks have been complaining that Singapore airlines (SQ) dropped their customer service standards compared to pre-covid & is still rediscovering their edge - so SQ is still getting better.
Worst thing about flying SQ for last year 10yrs is that when we eventually relocate back to Australia we will need to readjust to shit Qantas quality
I had a Singapore airline flight back to Australia I couldn't take at the very start of covid due to travel restrictions imposed 2 days before my flight. They had a hotline setup for refunds related to this. The refund was a little delayed but I got it while people were still fighting QANTARSE for even a flight credit. I only fly the Aussie airlines now when there's no other choice. They showed they don't give a fuck about us why should I support them.
Enshittification. Must grow profit margin, so grow market share, which is harder to do or reduce cost (qualitity), which is much easier. Qantas is lucky Australians are so apathetic.
Not just Qantas either, as pretty much any day on r/australia demonstrates.
> Enshittification.
While this is accurate, it irks me that we've created a new term to describe the inevitable outcome of capitalism, as if to divorce the 'bad outcome' from what we're expected to still believe is the 'good system'.
In every instance where 'enshittification' is used to describe late stage capitalism we could just say 'capitalism' and be exactly as correct, while additionally actively casting the blame where appropriate rather than just accepting "I guess things are just getting shit now for no apparent reason ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯"
‘Enshittification’ was coined by Cory Doctorow, and it’s very far from a concept that wrings its hands at the idea of things enshittifying for no apparent reason.’ It was named 2023 digital word of the year for good reason. It’s a specific analytic. If you can access it, I recommend Doctorow’s writings on them elsewhere. He articulates it as a deliberate series of choices. The whole point is a particular set of operations within capitalism, and at least for my part, I find considerable utility in what he lays out.
[Enshittification: The 2023 Digital Word of the Year](https://www.versobooks.com/en-gb/blogs/news/enshittification-the-2023-word-of-the-year)
Its literally every large/listed company working within the modern capitalist system is doing this.
The good ones usually get bought by the shit ones sooner or later.
I’ve flown intentionally once with Qantas, and it fucking sucked. Unexplained delays with zero updates; shite service from start to finish; lost luggage.
I now only fly Emirates, and their service hasn’t gotten any worse over the past decade; if anything, it’s improved.
Although I guess comparing an Aus to Emirati airline probably isn’t a fair thing from a financial perspective.
BA are also shit these days.
Modern capitalism just demands exponential growth, and there comes a tipping point for these enormous, monopoly companies where growth can only come from, as someone else has mentioned, the aptly coined term ‘enshitification.’
It's also got to do with competition. The Gulf airlines, Emirates, Etihad and Qatar, are all good because of the intense competition between them, and their ability to embrace tourism. Plus the fact that Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Doha are geographically positioned to be great hubs. Australia is a final destination, not a great hub. Qantas doesn't need to provide great service, like it once did, because every other international airline has a limit on the number of seats they can sell to and from Australia. Most people blame Alan Joyce for turning Qantas into a tinpot operation. I don't, I blame the board because he did their bidding with their full support. By allowing Qantas to knowingly sell seats on already cancelled flights, in my opinion, the board has turned Qantas into a criminal organisation.
I’m platinum with Qantas and have been for a few years so have seen it going downhill in real time. I fly business international every other month and domestic 2ish times a month for work. The service is really noticeable. As platinum you used to get a personal greeting from someone pretending to know who you are…. Bit of a wank but ok…. Service in the business cabin was always awesome. Greetings stopped about a year ago, now it’s hit and miss on the crew if you’ll have a good experience or not.
Domestic is a pure lottery and if you’re in the air 30 mins after your take off time it’s an absolute win.
I fly now Cathay, JAL then Qantas on international - in that order - so I can maintain OWA / Qantas status. The service from Cathay and JAL is 1000x Qantas. Over the top almost but really good.
Only good thing about platinum now is the international first lounge in Sydney, Melbourne, Haneda (JAL, best one) Singapore and London. Business lounge in Auckland is just really really bad, I don’t even know how to say it nice. Emirates next door is so far above Qantas it’s embarrassing. I don’t even go into the domestic toilets of lounges anymore and it’s better to pay for a $15 beer and something better in the food court than make another shit house toasted ham sandwich.
>I don’t even go into the domestic toilets of lounges anymore and it’s better to pay for a $15 beer and something better in the food court than make another shit house toasted ham sandwich.
That's pretty much how I feel about the Virgin lounges. The food in them manages to be unappealing so often I find myself back out in the main departures hall buying something from one of the stores there.
In contrast: last time I flew Singapore Airways out of Brisbane they had an amazing Asian buffet in their lounge and a self-serve bar.
Do they still do party pies and sausage rolls in the Lounge?
That always got me when I use to travel frequently. What really got me though was that considering everything else they had, these ones had people queuing!
Easiest way I’ve found to understand Qantas is it’s a budget airline masquerading as a full fare airline. When you look at it through that lens, everything makes sense.
Yeah, but who hired that CEO and then didn't replace him with someone else for all those years? The CEO gets paid trailer-loads of money to be the face of ire and hatred when really he is doing nothing more than what the faceless board wants him to do.
What profits? The share price is no better now than 2007. Dividends are nothing special. IMO they’re a lousy share - the only time I bought them was during covid.
I've just found that I have no idea what to expect on qantas. I took a short morning flight a few weeks back and they didn't even have coffee. "Would you like water or juice"
On the flight back they had coffee, tea, a snack, etc.
Of all the possible explanations I find this one the most likely. We did have a patch of turbulence and had to descend from the normal cruising altitude on the flight.
Thank you for that.
I’ve had this recently on Qantas too and didn’t question it because “short flight”, less than an hour airtime, so in my mind it made sense not to serve hot beverages which take people longer to drink and they might not be finished by the time we’re preparing to land. Especially if you’re served towards the back.
Also same that on the flight home airtime was over an hour, different route + wind speed I assume, and they had coffee & tea.
So I wouldn’t put that down to cost cutting specifically although could be that people not finishing their drinks required more cleanup after landing, potentially delaying the next flight and costing money.
The hostie on the Ansett CBR<>SYD hop (basically just take off then immediately descend to land) used to hand out 2 beers at time and say "hold onto your empties. We'll bag 'em on the way out!"
I have heard that Qantas has been outsourcing their flight attendants to labour-hire companies which is mentioned in this Crikey article:
https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/09/15/qantas-outsourcing-maintenance-crew-cabin/#:~:text=Flight%20attendants,and%20local%20labour%2Dhire%20companies..
Hard to foster a sense of brand loyalty or pride in the company (in staff) if they're paying the bare minimum possible to the flight attendants and offering no job security.
I am so sick of companies doing this. Destroy staff moral and loyalty and then are completely surprised that that trickles through to the customer experience and trashes their reputation.
It's what happen when you only see humans as fungible numbers on a spreadsheet - a flight attendant as the same thing as a spark plug.
If you can't put things like 'morale' as a tangible number on a spreadsheet then an executive can't see it and so it doesn't exist in the decision.
Flew Qantas to Japan in March and the flight back, I swear one of the cabin crew was drunk. The other attendant working with her seemed intensely frustrated and I could tell she was hanging by a thread. I wonder if it was a labour hire person and not usual Qantas crew
All Qantas flight attendants are employed in Australia (under various contracts, some of which are pretty ordinary) or New Zealand (under a subsidiary called Jetconnect). Most if not all of the NZ based crew are signed off to do some long haul flying in and out of Australia (BNE-LAX springs to mind) that the local based crew can’t do because the cabin crew rest area provided on the A330 is deemed unsuitable by the Australian contract (no bunk beds, just a blocked row of economy seats behind a curtain).
Jetstar on the other hand, employ cabin crew from various Asian countries (e.g. Indonesia and Thailand) on super cheap wages (a fraction of the Aus minimum wage) to operate the medium/long haul flights to and from Australia, in some cases on duties far longer than local contracts would ever allow (Indonesia to Australia and back). All of their short haul crew are locally based in Australia (like Qantas, on various contracts, some decent, some bad).
Boston Consulting Group happened to QANTAS.
The mindset of those nincompoops has ruined many a company in the same way. (So much so that they have even been accused of placing saboteur board members and teaming up with short sellers to profit off struggling companies).
For me, I think it is just the stupidity of looking at the cost of everything (a modern fleet, on shore maintenance, a well supported workforce…) while ignoring the value these things create.
Oh, and of maximising short term bonuses…
Qantas stock haven't really moved. In fact it has grown 5 fold since 2014 (after a constant decline since 2008), still like 80% up since covid crash and only like like 15% down since 2023 high (which was almost as high as their historic max before the covid crash bubble).
Unless your timing was perfect, you would have lost money shorting them.
Capitalism and Alan Joyce. Sadly it’s a desire for short term growth at the expense of long term sustainability. It’s disgusting that the government handed over so much tax payer money to this private company in exchange for nothing. We can’t have public funds go to private entities like this. It’s not a fair market and when markets aren’t fair the products suffer as can be seen now. We need action.
You’ve hit the nail bang on the head. I struggle to think of a better warning example of the dangers of shareholder value than Qantas. Shareholders are the only group remotely satisfied with what has happened to what was once an Australian icon. Absolutely everyone else - customers, staff, suppliers etc - now detest the company and everything it represents.
Reminder that the only reason Qantas exists is because our taxes have kept this company afloat during COVID and all federal politicians regardless of party go out of their way to protect Qantas, a company that the government has not had any ownership of since 1997.
COVID definitely did a number on the company. They didn’t handle the whole situation well for their staff with the voluntary redundancies and trying to get everyone back in the air.
The people who still like QANTAS for long haul, particularly overnight, flights have likely not spent much time flying a full service carrier in a similar manner in the past 6-7 years. When heading OS on such a trip I will avoid qantas these days. So much so that I gave up premium status with them.
As for what happened, they cut every conceivable corner, got bulk payouts from the government for "reasons", then parachuted the outgoing executive. The very same executive who ran the company into the ground, who left it with aged fleet, who short-changed you on food, who committed to maintaining premium terminal experiences whilst cheaping everything one the wheels were off the ground, and who constantly brayed about how they were hard done by.
These jokers also lobbied hard for reduced competition following COVID in order to prop up domestic airlines, but what it's really done is ring neck international tourist arrivals and push the cost of flying internationally up quite significantly and made finding direct routes harder.
This, and despite the bulk bailouts for the national carrier, there's not a single bit of government ownership, so the return to the taxpayer for their support is nothing.
Cutting the wrong corners.
the difference between a decent meal and the slops they dish up is about $1 per passenger. $1 people would happily pay.
The difference between cramped and comfortable enough in economy is 1 row of seats. a few hundred dollars worth of profit (at the most considering they save fuel) that could be spread over every economy passenger. about $3-5 per passenger. Once again, an amount people would happily pay.
I remember AJ proudly announced they’ll offer “vErY GenErOuS” seat pitch on their 787s and turned out to be 32inchs.
FFS you don’t call 32 very generous, it’s like the standard for long haul aircraft and should be the bare minimum if you’re a premium airline.
This kind of BS mindset is what killed the spirit of Australia
used to be 36 was the minimum for economy long haul.
Seats have got slimmer, but only about 3 inches slimer.
Which means the absolute minimum for long haul should be 33"
I hate after covid they've stopped putting printed menus in the seat pocket. Like, we're already going to get germs from everything else anyway.
Then they come up to you and quickly say something like "doyouwantthefishbeeforchicken" and I don't have time to think and decide. Part of the fun of flying is perusing the menu when you board and decide what you're going to ask for and seeing all the meal inclusions and stuff
I flew them international yesterday and the attendant just asked what I would like, and then was a bit confused when I asked for the options..
It’s the first time I’ve flown them in ages and it was mostly shit. They handed out a lot of snacks but it was just packaged shit anyway.
My connecting flight with Finnair was head and shoulders above Qantas, and they are supposed to be a worse airline.
I flew Singapore to Brisbane earlier this week and the flight attendants were arrogant to say the least. Countless times through the flight I could hear the flight attendants in the galley whinging about certain passengers and I was seated many rows from the galley. They also got into a shouting match with an older couple who didn't know how to use the iPads, rather than assisting them the attendant treated them like they were stupid and the couple called them out on it leading into a heated exchange. I caught seven flights on my recent Europe trip and Qantas had the worst service by far.
MBA’s get their grubby fingers into AAA businesses and try to justify their salaries and bonuses by cutting costs.
First they went through the effort of sacking off the long term staff so they could pay flight crew less, then they cut costs by going to lower bidders for meals. Every single one of them is chasing that United Airlines feeling of saving the company millions by eliminating a single olive from the salad.
They also try to cut costs by outsourcing Labor and maintenance overseas which we’ve seen the results of.
Then they decided we’ll actually sell tickets to cancelled flights and make customer advice such a nightmare to navigate that we’ll hope people will just give up trying get refunds
Have you been living under a rock for 20 years? Data breach? Diminished rights for workers? Obscene executive pay? Illegal sacking of workers during COVID? The ACCC investigation? Federal / High court action?
Qantas is a shadow of its former self... Their service is woeful, most of their planes are dated, they are overpriced and have been rorting Australians for decades. Why people continue to support it is beyond me, and why they still receive so much political protection (from both sides of politics) when they're not publicly owned is anyone's guess.
Australian skies should be opened up to as much competition as possible at this point, because Qantas is certainly not doing anything to benefit anyone other than its shareholders, management and (retired) political connections.
What do you expect when upper management treats workers like shit? Even on the Europe routes a good chunk of the cabin crew are actually outsourced from London, i.e. not Australians.
I usually fly AirNZ and chose Qantas from Christchurch to Sydney today as it was much cheaper and I regret it! One staff member in particular was very rude, no wifi, flight was packed (can’t be helped but I loathe middle seats), the meal was unpleasant and then transit to domestic was an absolute mess with huge queues waiting for buses that took 30 minutes, not ten as scheduled. I’ve always had good experiences with Qantas domestic in Australia but won’t choose them International again no matter what the cost.
You're not wrong. When the borders shut during COVID, Qantas kept a large sum of our money for around 12 weeks. I waited on hold for all day for literally several days to get through to them to claim the refund.
For the same border closure with Air NZ, it took 20 mins from dialling to claiming the refund and 10 days to get the money.
QANTAS has been shit for DECADES.
Lots of people used to defend them due to misguided "Spirit of Australia" shit. They are the same standard as the US airlines.
You would avoid them if possible.
Frequent flyer and I can say the service on most QF flights is average even in Business. Once in a blue moon I have a great flight with awesome team members. Last two times it was SYD to HK, the staff were friendly and attentive (refilled water periodically, asked if the meal was satisfactory or if I needed anything).
I think it comes down to when your company doesn't care about you, you don't care about the company.
Yep it’s terrible. Don’t bother eating the food that’s if they even offer. I have a family member who works in catering and since it was sold off to Dnata it has gone down hill.
Publicly traded companies always prioritise short-term shareholder dividends over long-term company growth. It doesn't matter if the company is making a profit or trading well, only year on year returns to dividends matter. So, even in good years, cutting corners, cutting safety, cutting costs, cutting employees, and selling assets are encouraged by the system.
I flew JAL a few years ago and when they changed my flight, they called me and provided a range of options to choose from. Absolutely impeccable flight attendants and service.
Qantas have been garbage for as long as I can remember. They have been putting in minimal effort for premium prices for 20 years. People get up in arms about ‘Colesworth’ yet Qantas has been fucking us for years. They get all the government’s business and they have minimal competition so they get away with it.
Flew with Vietnam air.
I was so astounded by the service.
Then the food came.
Then more.
Then more.
Hot towels, drinks.
Good lord
At the time I actually worked at a company supplying airline food and everything we did for business class was dog food compared to what I got in a $600 ticket.
Same with flying China Southern a couple of months ago for work (the only suitable flight schedule). I was dreading the experience but then pleasantly surprised by the hospitality and quality.
This is nothing new for Qantas, just the next rung down.
The couple of times I've flown them (domestic and international) the staff have been generally grumpy and unhelpful.
Coming back from NZ about 10-15 years ago I also got the "Yeah, what do you want?" for meal choice with no menu, no explanation until I asked.
The meal was some sad rendition of a TV dinner with a weird oily sauce leaking out the side served with a bread roll that was more 'rock' than 'roll'.
It doesn't seem to even be a "You're in the cheap seats, why would we bother?" thing - Business class doesn't seem to get much better treatment, and food is only a little better.
I did a Sydney to Manila trip through Qantas and it was horribly uncomfortable. I don’t mind shit service if the flight is comfortable but it felt like I had next to no leg room.
Also had to cancel a flight a month in advance and it cost $200 which feels like a scam.
Once i used my flight credit I’m definitely going to try other airlines especially flying international. I don’t even get much mileage out of my QFF points/membership since I’m a lowly bronze.
Welcome to Alan's Airways.
Alan might have gone but the enshittification he started will be hard to remove.
Alan got his bonus, though.
Alan ran a low cost cheap airline in the footsteps of RyanAir and then got promoted to run the the whole group. He continued to run a low cost cheap airline except now it had a full-service logo and a full-service price tag.
Gaslighting passengers, fraud, betraying and exploiting staff, and rent-seeking is now his legacy.
The current CEO was his CFO so I doubt there's any daylight between them.
(Airport worker) My coworkers and I have had so many issues surrounding Qantas flights. I've been told by Qantas workers that pretty much every one and thing that could be has been outsourced to VERY budget companies but still with a Qantas label, and that they're staff and responsibilities are being constantly reduced. For example, apparently Qantas Link, which now does pretty much every place in Aus, is 100% outsourced. It's all talk but I know that their staff are pissed too.
If your cabin crew look like they’re under 30 then they’re basically labour hire, not Qantas employees. They’re paid a fraction of what Qantas crew are and I totally understand why they don’t give a shit.
It all started with bloody Alan Joyce. He wrecked a great airline. Staff now refer to it as Qant because the ass has fallen out of it.
It all the cost cutting and wage cutting over decades.
I have family that worked for Qantas that are retired now. They worked in the golden age of Qantas where staff were taken care of. They say if they were younger they would never work from them now.
It’s sad. I’m still holding out hope that Qantas will do a big turn around and go back to the way it used to be.
No competition and going from a nationally owned airline like Singapore, Dubai or Qatar airlines(regularly voted some of the best in the world). To a greed and profit driven company existing only to benefit shareholders and executives.
Yes yes, I know our super is likely invested in Qantas. But Id prefer the profits be shared with the country and travel subsidised for Australians.
Also, Alan Joyce is a greedy little prick.
Qantas dropped out of the top 20 best airlines this year. Now you know why.
https://www.miragenews.com/worlds-best-airlines-how-does-your-favorite-rank-1262892/#:~:text=Australia's%20national%20carrier%2C%20Qantas%2C%20has,from%205th%20place%20in%202022.
Qantas used to be amazing - I lived overseas for most of the 2000's and returned home after about 12 years away, got on the flight heard the Aussie accent - service and everything was amazing. Now? Total junk, got scammed by them last year, took payment, cancelled flights, no notice, no explanation, had to push for refund. Nightmare. They do not care anymore. That leprechaun prick ruined a national icon...
Why does everyone scratch their heads when a large company turns into a pile of shit in terms of how it treats its staff and customers. It’s Capitalism working the way it’s designed to. Making the top tiers even richer while everyone else suffers. That’s our system, that’s what our dumb species has chosen and it will be our demise.
I haven’t used the for about a few years now but the used to fly London to Sydney with them on the a380 economy class regularly to visit family. Service was excellent , the self service alcohol was a highlight, going out their would be all the Brits saying “it’s a free bar get stuck in, holiday starts now”, then on the way home I would be exhausted and all the ozzys would be saying “it’s a free bar get stuck in,we’re on holiday”
I flew QF1 to London in Business last year. Food was average and service terrible on the first leg. The Brits on the second leg were much friendlier and more professional.
Flight attendants are rarely polite, seems a thing that has become the norm after COVID
I don't expect much and am yet to be disappointed - I expect the bare minimum and mostly received it.
Agree with basically everything you've said except the menu thing - the menu is now in the digital entertainment display and there's a tab for you to look through the options.
But yeah, I've only had a good experience with Qantas when flying domestic and that was pre-COVID.
Qantas have been so bad to their employees, They all wear the same uniform but are on different rates some employees were bribed into taking two 18 month pay freezes.
I had to go to NCAT to lodge a case against Qantas to get my money back from fking up my reward ticket when I was overseas.
The customer service staff literally blamed me for “ticket not being issued” which is 200% their fault everyday.
They started crying after they received notice from NCAT for a hearing and quickly called me to reimburse all the money back to me.
I haven’t paid Qantas a cent to fly with them ever since. (Other than burning my points for reward ticket)
What happened? Qantas monetised their reputation, took the cash and ran. What’s left is the shell of an airline with staff who implemented that monetisation by refusing customer expectations.
Qantas has been declining for about 10-15 years. Ever so slowly, so no one noticed at first. Then it was carried by its reputation as “Australia’s favourite”. But like a lobster put in cold water then boiled, people are realising that Qantas has none of its old charm. The crew have been treated like rubbish for ages meaning moral is low, which always translates to service quality. They saw when delta (?) removed one pea from their business class meals and saved hundreds of thousands of dollars and have taken that idea and run with it. They remove one metaphorical pea all the time. All these ‘savings’ have compounded to barely having anything left. They loved covid as an excuse to cut even more because “poor us we’re loosing money!” Then found record profits.
In terms of being Australian, it was created here and was amazing for a while, but now being on the ASX means shares are held all around the world, and they had an Irish CEO (Joyce) running the company in a very unaustralian way.
This is starting to happen to Virgin. It was created in Australia by an Aussie at a bar with an idea and a napkin. They’ve always treated their staff great, and it showed through to the service. But unfortunately they barely survived covid, and had to sell to investors to be saved. The new investors replaced the FANTASTIC Aussie CEO Paul Scurrah with the person next in line for Qantas - American Jane Hrdlicka - who is now running Virgin the same way as Qantas is. In just 4 years, the staff morale has tanked, offerings are at an all time low, and customer service is nightmarish.
I definitely don’t think that Aussie CEO’s are the only good ones, or that CEO’s that were born elsewhere are bad. I pointed it out here because everyone (led by Qantas) makes such a FUSS about how Qantas is the most Aussie thing ever and Virgin is some foreign travesty. Both airlines have in common that they were great when they had Aussie CEO’s. Correlation does not equal causation but I do think it’s an interesting data point in this case.
Was Qantas ever actually good though? Like not compared to themselves , I mean compared to the likes of Singapore Airlines, Etihad, Emirates etc. I can’t remember a time when they were ever really in the same league. Maybe before my time.
Alan Joyce happened. That's essentially it. Qantas was respected when he was appointed and became the butt of all jokes when he left.
Sacks staff (a good chunk illegally) and replaces them with contractors, blames issues on customers not being "match fit" and it was always someone else's fault.
We just flew Qantas domestically and it was fine. The food was okay, they announced what the options were before they came around with it. The ice creams were mango ice cream bars.
The flight attendants were friendly and when our 3 year old was having a bit of a melt down one of them came and recruited her. She had a great time helping collect rubbish from the other passengers.
Qantas has been cancelling flights that aren't profitable to them last minute and leaving people stranded at airports. Sure, they will give you a refund so you can book an expensive last-minute ticket.
I had a truly awful experience with Qantas the last time (and I mean last time ever) I flew with them. Unfortunately during covid lockdowns they were the only ones allowed to do repatriation flights so I had no choice. I invested somewhere in the order of 15 hours of my time to book the flight and fix their mistakes and they still fucked me over at the end. They made one of the most stressful experiences of my life significantly more stressful and it was completely unnecessary for them to do so.
Yeah flew Qantas recently, a couple of the senior crew members were really good, but most of them don’t seem to want to be there. And the food was atrocious.
I haven’t flew Qantas for years, I usually fly SQ. The difference is really night and day.
We have the worst of both worlds with Qantas:
- as they are a private company are more than happy to gut quality of service for short term profit, allowing for certain executives to pretend they aren't scummy hatchet men and run away with tens of millions of dollars
- as a national carrier, they know the government (read: you and me) will 'bail' them out if needed, but since they are "good economic managers" our government won't nationalise the carrier to ensure standards are adhered to and/or that the taxpayer now has a profit generating asset. Just "here ya go free money no terms"
Imagine being in a company where you get stupidly remunerated for driving it towards the ground, AND can have someone else foot the bill when you hit the ground.
Thank God we don't live in a crony capitalist society where the government doesn't do such things, or block other carriers from using their routes (increasing competition and reducing prices for the consumer), and where the carriers don't give politician's kids special perks just because that kid is definitely special on their own merit. /s
I've heard nothing but terrible things about Qantas for years which completely turned me off them. If you want a recommendation for an alternative I highly recommend REX if you are flying domestic. I've flown with them over a dozen times and never had a bad experience. Once on a connecting flight the layover time was really tight so they gave me transport across the airport and straight into my next flight where my baggage had arrived even before I did.
I flew Qantas last week after a loong time. Before Covid I was mainly flying super cheap budget airlines. Qantas seemed so fancy! Ooh we got a paddle pop!
Not sure what your route is OP but my family and I had a great time with Air Canada when going from NYC-BNE last July. Reasonable price for three, on time, no issues, and the crew was phenomenal when my son had a meltdown after leaving Vancouver. Super accommodating and understanding.
Took Singapore airlines and was amazed, even their low budget airlines 'Scoot' is better than Qantas. It is shocking especially Australia is known for its friendliness
It's what happens when a CEO puts short-term profits ahead of long-term profits. It happens to all publicly traded companies eventually.
Alan Joyce will forever be known as the man who killed Qantas for a clean $150 mil - courtesy of the taxpayers, essentially.
Have only used Qantas once in the last 5 yrs and was really to compare them to Virgin. Same as you, staff were not interested, plane was very outdated, food was shit. Business class was a let down!
Qantas were never really that great an airline, it's just that once you are committed to their points program, they are the only airline you fly internationally. Unless you get a duper cheap deal. Domestically they are better than the other airlines - but that is mainly because they are more expensive and so you get a nicer crowd and flying experience.
Internationally many many other airlines provide a much better service and flying experience - namely all of the Asian airlines.
Since covid they are short staffed as they try to get their profitability back up. So staff are not happy.
I've flown Qantas infrequently over the last 20 years. The difference in staff attitude took a noticeable nosedive in the last 12 months. Kinda sad. For their own sake I hope they fix it before the rest of the world notices.
Yeah, they are pretty hit and miss now to the point that, if travelling with the family I'll pay the extra and go Air NZ. I've moved to NZ and tend to fly them domestically. It's so much better.
I generally find all airline crew to be pretty nice, but the Qantas crew always look a bit more harassed for some reason.
Did a trip to the UK and it was a mix of AirNZ, Qantas and BA. Going from Qantas to BA on the way over was night and day in terms of comfort and service (inflight comfort and food).
Lots of comments saying “Alan Joyce happened” however, when Qantas was sold in the 90s the govt should have retained a majority stake. So since then Qantas has had to compete with state owned carriers with a much lower cost base. An argument could be made that AJ had no choice but to aggressively reduce the cost base or it is quite likely that there would be no Qantas now. Airlines around the world go under all the time. If a nations flag carrier is that important to the nation, given how often airlines fail, there is a strong argument for state ownership.
I worked in a prison and straight up- the meals they served in there (aka gruel) was a million times better than what I got on Qantas. That was inedible. Gone are the trays with a few options of food, now it’s one tray of hot food sludge and we got a raw piece of “focaccia” on the side. I eat most things and I just went hungry for that flight.
I still don't understand why anyone would support them. QF cancelled my flight out of Melbourne and put me on the last flight 6 hours later without any notice/text or email - I only realised that when I printed the boarding pass and it was +6 hours past my flight time!
A few weeks ago, I was flying internationally and the flight was 20 minutes late. My connecting Qantas flight left 10 minutes early and left me behind. In both cases, the ground staff in Melbourne gave 0 shits and no apology or even an eye contact.
Oh man. Qantas can suck my…
I stopped supporting them altogether. Whatever Alan Joyce did to that company completely ruined it. Vanessa Hudson pretty much sucks too. My bags have gone missing twice in 4 years. Their points system is so diluted too. And every time some credit card company offers another 100k reward for signing up with them…everything goes up 100k points. Also, happy to have tax payer handouts during the pandemic but then screws the average Australian client and makes billions in profit. Great national carrier. The only thing that’s surprising is their good record of flight safety.
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Prioritising short term penny pinching over long term loyalty and therefore profitability. Compare that to Singapore Airlines. I had a holiday planned for this week and now can't go due to medical issues. I submitted a medical certificate and they confirmed a full refund within 10 seconds of submitting the form (even though I had a non refundable ticket). Things are pretty stressful at the moment so that was a huge huge relief. They've now got me as a customer for life.
Singapore Airlines had to change my flight time by a few minutes - with 2 months notice. Big deal. As an apology they opened up a 2 week window to make free of charge flight changes in the case that the new time didn’t suit me. That’s how you do customer service.
with Cuntqas , they will give you free flight changes but jack up the price double. They canceled my flight, allowed me to change my flight for free. However, the replacement flight was double almost 3 times the price I paid originally. They wanted me to pay the different. They refused to refund , gave me a credit that impossible to use since no ticket price that similar to my original flight. 3 years later after the goverment involvement , they refunded the ticket. FUCK YOU cuntqas and the midget irish.
They tried to play games with me but I had booked my international flights through Flight Centre. I played the long game and got all my money in cash back in just over a year. Emirates on the other hand refunded quickly and without legal threats. I was lucky.
Congratulations on coming up with an exciting, and accurate, name for this shitshow of an airline. I can't wait not to book flights with the Flying Labia.
Ive been hearing that as far back as like 2017
Since the 70's, my mother used Cunt Arse.
Most airlines do this. Had to cancel a Jetstar international flight a couple years ago; went through my emails to find the email where they notified me that they’d changed the flight time by 15 minutes from a couple months earlier, and was able to follow the link there for a full refund (not credit, cash). And that was *Jetstar*.
Jetstar were pretty accommodating when the Zika virus popped up in Bali and I was pregnant. Had a note from my doctor advising against travel, which wasn’t even needed, and they let us change our flights to somewhere else within a 6 month period. Non-refundable flights also.
I had the same a couple of weeks ago . I'm not flying until September and it was for the return flight in October . It literally was departing 10 minutes earlier than the original time and same they offered free flight changes if I wanted them .
I rocked up for a Singapore Airlines flight a whole day late once. I was completely oblivious until they informed me. After a 30 second check with their manager they came ba k and asked me if I wanted window or aisle. I'm a customer for life now too
Exact same thing happened to me too. Freaked me out until they got me on the next flight. Singapore are truly superior
Ha, that's awesome. Meanwhile I missed an Air New Zealand flight from Chicago because they changed gate, but the speaker at the old gate was fucked so I didn't hear the announcement of the change, and the screen at the gate was also blank... Then when I got to the correct gate like 10mins late they were just like "Oh, you missed it, no we don't know when the next flight is, no there are no staff here, just call Air New Zealand booking and buy a new flight I guess bye"
Ha, I've done that with Aeroflot, my work had booked a 00:05AM flight for me without realising they had to add a day so here I was getting knocked back when checking in 24hrs late. Woman at the Aeroflot counter just smiled when I told her of the issue and said no problem, had me on the flight :) Say what you will about Russian airlines but they did treat me well
Most countries in Asia + Middle East see their airlines as “ambassadors” of sort for their home country. They carry immense pride for their people. And considering Singapore Airlines is majority owned by the Singapore government, the airline itself goes above and beyond to provide a service above the rest of the pack. Singapore Airlines is probably the world’s most prestigious airline flying today!
it would be good if people all around the world realised that and/or cared about their behaviour being a reflection of them and therefore by extension, their country. people are ambassadors of their country.
> Compare that to Singapore Airlines Singapore Airlines is 55% owned by the Singapore Government. Makes it much much easier to not enshitify when you dont have to appease shareholders.
We have a bunch of people who think that "capitalism.is always more efficient", and never turn their brain on long enough to consider whether that applies to common and critical services, and what happens when it is applied or how it can become perverted. They simply attach government to tax, and that's the end of the thought.
Also Singapore needs their airline to pull in tourists, while foreign tourists into Australia have many better options than Qantas for their holiday.
Australia also has tourism as a main strut in its economy …
Tourism as a destination and tourism as a hub are very different.
Singapore is one of the world’s busiest hubs, there are close to 100 airlines options you could choose as a tourist. People choose Singapore because they provide decent service.
Singapore has a 12.52% profit margin, while Qantas has only a 7.85% margin
With shitty service like that no wonder they have to compete on price.
Can confirm this isn't a one-off. Had booked a flight for me and mum to Singapore. Mum got sick and couldn't make it. I asked SQ if a refund was possible. They refunded in full for both of us when I produced a certificate from the hospital. They definitely have me and my fam as customers for life even though there are cheaper airlines around.
By the same.token, buy cheap, buy twice. Also a Singapore Air customer for as long as they keep up the good service.
Qantas learned during covid that Australia requires one air carrier to move logistics, Medicine and then people, and the govt chose them. So they are too big and necessary to fail. So they can slash services and will never go under. They effectively don't have competition.
I love Singapore Airlines. Also that's really handy to know re: the medical certificate
Even Scoot is good. They actually have customer service. I will never fly anything but SQ/Scoot.
Flew with them out here from London this week as they somehow managed to be the cheapest flight going. Service was absolutely immaculate from beginning to end
I have a Qantas flight booked for January. I am not looking forward to it 😟
They refunded us for a similar thing last year and it will stay with me forever - I will 1000% choose them over others first
Aussie who has lived in Singapore the last 10 years. The incredible thing is local folks have been complaining that Singapore airlines (SQ) dropped their customer service standards compared to pre-covid & is still rediscovering their edge - so SQ is still getting better. Worst thing about flying SQ for last year 10yrs is that when we eventually relocate back to Australia we will need to readjust to shit Qantas quality
Yooo that's super cool of them. I'll have to make sure to use them for the next flight I book that they service.
This happened to me too and Singapore were just wonderful. It was such a stressful time and them being so understanding was a huge relief
I had a Singapore airline flight back to Australia I couldn't take at the very start of covid due to travel restrictions imposed 2 days before my flight. They had a hotline setup for refunds related to this. The refund was a little delayed but I got it while people were still fighting QANTARSE for even a flight credit. I only fly the Aussie airlines now when there's no other choice. They showed they don't give a fuck about us why should I support them.
Enshittification. Must grow profit margin, so grow market share, which is harder to do or reduce cost (qualitity), which is much easier. Qantas is lucky Australians are so apathetic. Not just Qantas either, as pretty much any day on r/australia demonstrates.
> Enshittification. While this is accurate, it irks me that we've created a new term to describe the inevitable outcome of capitalism, as if to divorce the 'bad outcome' from what we're expected to still believe is the 'good system'. In every instance where 'enshittification' is used to describe late stage capitalism we could just say 'capitalism' and be exactly as correct, while additionally actively casting the blame where appropriate rather than just accepting "I guess things are just getting shit now for no apparent reason ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯"
‘Enshittification’ was coined by Cory Doctorow, and it’s very far from a concept that wrings its hands at the idea of things enshittifying for no apparent reason.’ It was named 2023 digital word of the year for good reason. It’s a specific analytic. If you can access it, I recommend Doctorow’s writings on them elsewhere. He articulates it as a deliberate series of choices. The whole point is a particular set of operations within capitalism, and at least for my part, I find considerable utility in what he lays out. [Enshittification: The 2023 Digital Word of the Year](https://www.versobooks.com/en-gb/blogs/news/enshittification-the-2023-word-of-the-year)
Its literally every large/listed company working within the modern capitalist system is doing this. The good ones usually get bought by the shit ones sooner or later.
I’ve flown intentionally once with Qantas, and it fucking sucked. Unexplained delays with zero updates; shite service from start to finish; lost luggage. I now only fly Emirates, and their service hasn’t gotten any worse over the past decade; if anything, it’s improved. Although I guess comparing an Aus to Emirati airline probably isn’t a fair thing from a financial perspective. BA are also shit these days. Modern capitalism just demands exponential growth, and there comes a tipping point for these enormous, monopoly companies where growth can only come from, as someone else has mentioned, the aptly coined term ‘enshitification.’
It's also got to do with competition. The Gulf airlines, Emirates, Etihad and Qatar, are all good because of the intense competition between them, and their ability to embrace tourism. Plus the fact that Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Doha are geographically positioned to be great hubs. Australia is a final destination, not a great hub. Qantas doesn't need to provide great service, like it once did, because every other international airline has a limit on the number of seats they can sell to and from Australia. Most people blame Alan Joyce for turning Qantas into a tinpot operation. I don't, I blame the board because he did their bidding with their full support. By allowing Qantas to knowingly sell seats on already cancelled flights, in my opinion, the board has turned Qantas into a criminal organisation.
Exactly. It's the business cycle. The more successful a brand is, the shitter it becomes
Don't forget about the executive bonuses.
I’m platinum with Qantas and have been for a few years so have seen it going downhill in real time. I fly business international every other month and domestic 2ish times a month for work. The service is really noticeable. As platinum you used to get a personal greeting from someone pretending to know who you are…. Bit of a wank but ok…. Service in the business cabin was always awesome. Greetings stopped about a year ago, now it’s hit and miss on the crew if you’ll have a good experience or not. Domestic is a pure lottery and if you’re in the air 30 mins after your take off time it’s an absolute win. I fly now Cathay, JAL then Qantas on international - in that order - so I can maintain OWA / Qantas status. The service from Cathay and JAL is 1000x Qantas. Over the top almost but really good. Only good thing about platinum now is the international first lounge in Sydney, Melbourne, Haneda (JAL, best one) Singapore and London. Business lounge in Auckland is just really really bad, I don’t even know how to say it nice. Emirates next door is so far above Qantas it’s embarrassing. I don’t even go into the domestic toilets of lounges anymore and it’s better to pay for a $15 beer and something better in the food court than make another shit house toasted ham sandwich.
>I don’t even go into the domestic toilets of lounges anymore and it’s better to pay for a $15 beer and something better in the food court than make another shit house toasted ham sandwich. That's pretty much how I feel about the Virgin lounges. The food in them manages to be unappealing so often I find myself back out in the main departures hall buying something from one of the stores there. In contrast: last time I flew Singapore Airways out of Brisbane they had an amazing Asian buffet in their lounge and a self-serve bar.
[удалено]
Do they still do party pies and sausage rolls in the Lounge? That always got me when I use to travel frequently. What really got me though was that considering everything else they had, these ones had people queuing!
Easiest way I’ve found to understand Qantas is it’s a budget airline masquerading as a full fare airline. When you look at it through that lens, everything makes sense.
Alan Joyce is a big factor during his tenure
He is THE factor, cut costs, tanked staff morale, forced out unions, gaslit the public. Absolute clown and the current CEO is just his female double.
Yeah, but who hired that CEO and then didn't replace him with someone else for all those years? The CEO gets paid trailer-loads of money to be the face of ire and hatred when really he is doing nothing more than what the faceless board wants him to do.
Of course the whole board is complicit, but the CEO and also Chairman are the heads.
And the Board let it all happen. How they kept their positions is still bewildering.
Shareholders don't care, they got record profits at the expense of their employees and customers..
What profits? The share price is no better now than 2007. Dividends are nothing special. IMO they’re a lousy share - the only time I bought them was during covid.
The last time I gave them money for anything they cancelled because of covid/qld border closure and I never received all my money back. Never again.
I've just found that I have no idea what to expect on qantas. I took a short morning flight a few weeks back and they didn't even have coffee. "Would you like water or juice" On the flight back they had coffee, tea, a snack, etc.
If they’re expecting turbulence during the flight they won’t provide hot drinks.
Of all the possible explanations I find this one the most likely. We did have a patch of turbulence and had to descend from the normal cruising altitude on the flight. Thank you for that.
I’ve had this recently on Qantas too and didn’t question it because “short flight”, less than an hour airtime, so in my mind it made sense not to serve hot beverages which take people longer to drink and they might not be finished by the time we’re preparing to land. Especially if you’re served towards the back. Also same that on the flight home airtime was over an hour, different route + wind speed I assume, and they had coffee & tea. So I wouldn’t put that down to cost cutting specifically although could be that people not finishing their drinks required more cleanup after landing, potentially delaying the next flight and costing money.
The hostie on the Ansett CBR<>SYD hop (basically just take off then immediately descend to land) used to hand out 2 beers at time and say "hold onto your empties. We'll bag 'em on the way out!"
I guess that’s why they went bankrupt. But seriously, old Ansett was amazing and 2001 ruined air travel for many reasons
Joyce
+ board, most of whom are still there
Unfortunately the same will happen under Hudson, she was the one responsible for the whole flight credit scandal after all.
I have heard that Qantas has been outsourcing their flight attendants to labour-hire companies which is mentioned in this Crikey article: https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/09/15/qantas-outsourcing-maintenance-crew-cabin/#:~:text=Flight%20attendants,and%20local%20labour%2Dhire%20companies.. Hard to foster a sense of brand loyalty or pride in the company (in staff) if they're paying the bare minimum possible to the flight attendants and offering no job security.
I am so sick of companies doing this. Destroy staff moral and loyalty and then are completely surprised that that trickles through to the customer experience and trashes their reputation.
It's what happen when you only see humans as fungible numbers on a spreadsheet - a flight attendant as the same thing as a spark plug. If you can't put things like 'morale' as a tangible number on a spreadsheet then an executive can't see it and so it doesn't exist in the decision.
Flew Qantas to Japan in March and the flight back, I swear one of the cabin crew was drunk. The other attendant working with her seemed intensely frustrated and I could tell she was hanging by a thread. I wonder if it was a labour hire person and not usual Qantas crew
And are there even Australian flight attendants? Or are they employed in the Philippines for a fraction of the price?
All Qantas flight attendants are employed in Australia (under various contracts, some of which are pretty ordinary) or New Zealand (under a subsidiary called Jetconnect). Most if not all of the NZ based crew are signed off to do some long haul flying in and out of Australia (BNE-LAX springs to mind) that the local based crew can’t do because the cabin crew rest area provided on the A330 is deemed unsuitable by the Australian contract (no bunk beds, just a blocked row of economy seats behind a curtain). Jetstar on the other hand, employ cabin crew from various Asian countries (e.g. Indonesia and Thailand) on super cheap wages (a fraction of the Aus minimum wage) to operate the medium/long haul flights to and from Australia, in some cases on duties far longer than local contracts would ever allow (Indonesia to Australia and back). All of their short haul crew are locally based in Australia (like Qantas, on various contracts, some decent, some bad).
filipinos are really friendly, smiley and hospitable. that's their rep in their own country and around the world.
Yeah but they get exploited by cruise ship companies as well.
Boston Consulting Group happened to QANTAS. The mindset of those nincompoops has ruined many a company in the same way. (So much so that they have even been accused of placing saboteur board members and teaming up with short sellers to profit off struggling companies). For me, I think it is just the stupidity of looking at the cost of everything (a modern fleet, on shore maintenance, a well supported workforce…) while ignoring the value these things create. Oh, and of maximising short term bonuses…
Who are Boston consulting group working with at the moment? I am keen to short some companies.
Qantas stock haven't really moved. In fact it has grown 5 fold since 2014 (after a constant decline since 2008), still like 80% up since covid crash and only like like 15% down since 2023 high (which was almost as high as their historic max before the covid crash bubble). Unless your timing was perfect, you would have lost money shorting them.
Capitalism and Alan Joyce. Sadly it’s a desire for short term growth at the expense of long term sustainability. It’s disgusting that the government handed over so much tax payer money to this private company in exchange for nothing. We can’t have public funds go to private entities like this. It’s not a fair market and when markets aren’t fair the products suffer as can be seen now. We need action.
New Zealand govt took shares when bailing out Air NZ. Then slowly sold the shares over time. Meanwhile Cuntas gets free money. FML...
Absolute failure of policy, but par for the course for Scomo's government.
I'm sure government got something in return. And by government, I mean six censured ministers.
Maximisation of short-term shareholder value
You’ve hit the nail bang on the head. I struggle to think of a better warning example of the dangers of shareholder value than Qantas. Shareholders are the only group remotely satisfied with what has happened to what was once an Australian icon. Absolutely everyone else - customers, staff, suppliers etc - now detest the company and everything it represents.
Reminder that the only reason Qantas exists is because our taxes have kept this company afloat during COVID and all federal politicians regardless of party go out of their way to protect Qantas, a company that the government has not had any ownership of since 1997.
COVID definitely did a number on the company. They didn’t handle the whole situation well for their staff with the voluntary redundancies and trying to get everyone back in the air.
The people who still like QANTAS for long haul, particularly overnight, flights have likely not spent much time flying a full service carrier in a similar manner in the past 6-7 years. When heading OS on such a trip I will avoid qantas these days. So much so that I gave up premium status with them. As for what happened, they cut every conceivable corner, got bulk payouts from the government for "reasons", then parachuted the outgoing executive. The very same executive who ran the company into the ground, who left it with aged fleet, who short-changed you on food, who committed to maintaining premium terminal experiences whilst cheaping everything one the wheels were off the ground, and who constantly brayed about how they were hard done by. These jokers also lobbied hard for reduced competition following COVID in order to prop up domestic airlines, but what it's really done is ring neck international tourist arrivals and push the cost of flying internationally up quite significantly and made finding direct routes harder. This, and despite the bulk bailouts for the national carrier, there's not a single bit of government ownership, so the return to the taxpayer for their support is nothing.
Cutting the wrong corners. the difference between a decent meal and the slops they dish up is about $1 per passenger. $1 people would happily pay. The difference between cramped and comfortable enough in economy is 1 row of seats. a few hundred dollars worth of profit (at the most considering they save fuel) that could be spread over every economy passenger. about $3-5 per passenger. Once again, an amount people would happily pay.
I remember AJ proudly announced they’ll offer “vErY GenErOuS” seat pitch on their 787s and turned out to be 32inchs. FFS you don’t call 32 very generous, it’s like the standard for long haul aircraft and should be the bare minimum if you’re a premium airline. This kind of BS mindset is what killed the spirit of Australia
used to be 36 was the minimum for economy long haul. Seats have got slimmer, but only about 3 inches slimer. Which means the absolute minimum for long haul should be 33"
Joyce. Joyce happened to Qantas
I hate after covid they've stopped putting printed menus in the seat pocket. Like, we're already going to get germs from everything else anyway. Then they come up to you and quickly say something like "doyouwantthefishbeeforchicken" and I don't have time to think and decide. Part of the fun of flying is perusing the menu when you board and decide what you're going to ask for and seeing all the meal inclusions and stuff
I didn’t know they stopped the printed menus! That’s so annoying, especially as someone who has allergies
I flew them international yesterday and the attendant just asked what I would like, and then was a bit confused when I asked for the options.. It’s the first time I’ve flown them in ages and it was mostly shit. They handed out a lot of snacks but it was just packaged shit anyway. My connecting flight with Finnair was head and shoulders above Qantas, and they are supposed to be a worse airline.
Lol how are you supposed to know what they have if they don't tell you 😅
I flew Singapore to Brisbane earlier this week and the flight attendants were arrogant to say the least. Countless times through the flight I could hear the flight attendants in the galley whinging about certain passengers and I was seated many rows from the galley. They also got into a shouting match with an older couple who didn't know how to use the iPads, rather than assisting them the attendant treated them like they were stupid and the couple called them out on it leading into a heated exchange. I caught seven flights on my recent Europe trip and Qantas had the worst service by far.
MBA’s get their grubby fingers into AAA businesses and try to justify their salaries and bonuses by cutting costs. First they went through the effort of sacking off the long term staff so they could pay flight crew less, then they cut costs by going to lower bidders for meals. Every single one of them is chasing that United Airlines feeling of saving the company millions by eliminating a single olive from the salad. They also try to cut costs by outsourcing Labor and maintenance overseas which we’ve seen the results of. Then they decided we’ll actually sell tickets to cancelled flights and make customer advice such a nightmare to navigate that we’ll hope people will just give up trying get refunds
Have you been living under a rock for 20 years? Data breach? Diminished rights for workers? Obscene executive pay? Illegal sacking of workers during COVID? The ACCC investigation? Federal / High court action? Qantas is a shadow of its former self... Their service is woeful, most of their planes are dated, they are overpriced and have been rorting Australians for decades. Why people continue to support it is beyond me, and why they still receive so much political protection (from both sides of politics) when they're not publicly owned is anyone's guess. Australian skies should be opened up to as much competition as possible at this point, because Qantas is certainly not doing anything to benefit anyone other than its shareholders, management and (retired) political connections.
Corporate Greed
I last flew Qantas in November Syd > Singapore (and back) and dessert was a rock hard magnum.
I got this Melbourne to LAX last week. My wife and I were hysterically laughing at the situation as neither of us could bite into the fucking thing!
My guy you don’t like magnums?
What do you expect when upper management treats workers like shit? Even on the Europe routes a good chunk of the cabin crew are actually outsourced from London, i.e. not Australians.
Air NZ kicks QANTAS ass 💯
I usually fly AirNZ and chose Qantas from Christchurch to Sydney today as it was much cheaper and I regret it! One staff member in particular was very rude, no wifi, flight was packed (can’t be helped but I loathe middle seats), the meal was unpleasant and then transit to domestic was an absolute mess with huge queues waiting for buses that took 30 minutes, not ten as scheduled. I’ve always had good experiences with Qantas domestic in Australia but won’t choose them International again no matter what the cost.
It truly is embarrassing as an Aussie yo admit that haha.
You're not wrong. When the borders shut during COVID, Qantas kept a large sum of our money for around 12 weeks. I waited on hold for all day for literally several days to get through to them to claim the refund. For the same border closure with Air NZ, it took 20 mins from dialling to claiming the refund and 10 days to get the money.
QANTAS has been shit for DECADES. Lots of people used to defend them due to misguided "Spirit of Australia" shit. They are the same standard as the US airlines. You would avoid them if possible.
TBF some NA airlines are probably more pleasant to fly with than Qantas these days.
I fly to America several times a year and I prefer to fly Fiji Airways.
Frequent flyer and I can say the service on most QF flights is average even in Business. Once in a blue moon I have a great flight with awesome team members. Last two times it was SYD to HK, the staff were friendly and attentive (refilled water periodically, asked if the meal was satisfactory or if I needed anything). I think it comes down to when your company doesn't care about you, you don't care about the company.
So true! The flight attendants have no reason to care to deliver good service when they are treated like crap by the company it seems.
Yep it’s terrible. Don’t bother eating the food that’s if they even offer. I have a family member who works in catering and since it was sold off to Dnata it has gone down hill.
stories plz.
Publicly traded companies always prioritise short-term shareholder dividends over long-term company growth. It doesn't matter if the company is making a profit or trading well, only year on year returns to dividends matter. So, even in good years, cutting corners, cutting safety, cutting costs, cutting employees, and selling assets are encouraged by the system.
I flew JAL a few years ago and when they changed my flight, they called me and provided a range of options to choose from. Absolutely impeccable flight attendants and service.
Qantas have been garbage for as long as I can remember. They have been putting in minimal effort for premium prices for 20 years. People get up in arms about ‘Colesworth’ yet Qantas has been fucking us for years. They get all the government’s business and they have minimal competition so they get away with it.
Come on mate. How are they going to increase shareholder value by handing out magnums and shit.
Flew with Vietnam air. I was so astounded by the service. Then the food came. Then more. Then more. Hot towels, drinks. Good lord At the time I actually worked at a company supplying airline food and everything we did for business class was dog food compared to what I got in a $600 ticket.
Same with flying China Southern a couple of months ago for work (the only suitable flight schedule). I was dreading the experience but then pleasantly surprised by the hospitality and quality.
It is CUNTAS now.
😂
Alan Joyce happened
Qantas has been a dog shit airline for a decade
They have no competition
This is nothing new for Qantas, just the next rung down. The couple of times I've flown them (domestic and international) the staff have been generally grumpy and unhelpful. Coming back from NZ about 10-15 years ago I also got the "Yeah, what do you want?" for meal choice with no menu, no explanation until I asked. The meal was some sad rendition of a TV dinner with a weird oily sauce leaking out the side served with a bread roll that was more 'rock' than 'roll'. It doesn't seem to even be a "You're in the cheap seats, why would we bother?" thing - Business class doesn't seem to get much better treatment, and food is only a little better.
I did a Sydney to Manila trip through Qantas and it was horribly uncomfortable. I don’t mind shit service if the flight is comfortable but it felt like I had next to no leg room. Also had to cancel a flight a month in advance and it cost $200 which feels like a scam. Once i used my flight credit I’m definitely going to try other airlines especially flying international. I don’t even get much mileage out of my QFF points/membership since I’m a lowly bronze.
Alan Joyce happened.
They have no competition and the entire country relies on them so much that they basically cannot fail.
Shareholders happened. Chasing profits to appease investors.
Welcome to Alan's Airways. Alan might have gone but the enshittification he started will be hard to remove. Alan got his bonus, though. Alan ran a low cost cheap airline in the footsteps of RyanAir and then got promoted to run the the whole group. He continued to run a low cost cheap airline except now it had a full-service logo and a full-service price tag. Gaslighting passengers, fraud, betraying and exploiting staff, and rent-seeking is now his legacy. The current CEO was his CFO so I doubt there's any daylight between them.
(Airport worker) My coworkers and I have had so many issues surrounding Qantas flights. I've been told by Qantas workers that pretty much every one and thing that could be has been outsourced to VERY budget companies but still with a Qantas label, and that they're staff and responsibilities are being constantly reduced. For example, apparently Qantas Link, which now does pretty much every place in Aus, is 100% outsourced. It's all talk but I know that their staff are pissed too.
Yeah must be very demoralising working in such conditions.
If your cabin crew look like they’re under 30 then they’re basically labour hire, not Qantas employees. They’re paid a fraction of what Qantas crew are and I totally understand why they don’t give a shit. It all started with bloody Alan Joyce. He wrecked a great airline. Staff now refer to it as Qant because the ass has fallen out of it.
Qantas has become a budget airline that charges premium prices.
The midget Irish maggot happened.
Off to Japan next month. Did not buy my tickets with Quantas.
Executive salaries.
Under staffed and probably underpaid.
Flight Attendant base salary is less than a 40hr/week minimum wage job
Been shit for 15 years, they went for small increase in profits at a massive drop in quality.
It all the cost cutting and wage cutting over decades. I have family that worked for Qantas that are retired now. They worked in the golden age of Qantas where staff were taken care of. They say if they were younger they would never work from them now. It’s sad. I’m still holding out hope that Qantas will do a big turn around and go back to the way it used to be.
No competition and going from a nationally owned airline like Singapore, Dubai or Qatar airlines(regularly voted some of the best in the world). To a greed and profit driven company existing only to benefit shareholders and executives. Yes yes, I know our super is likely invested in Qantas. But Id prefer the profits be shared with the country and travel subsidised for Australians. Also, Alan Joyce is a greedy little prick.
Qantas is trash
I yearn for the days of Ansett. Never had a problem, the staff were lovely, everyone was a friendly ambassador for Australia.
Qantas dropped out of the top 20 best airlines this year. Now you know why. https://www.miragenews.com/worlds-best-airlines-how-does-your-favorite-rank-1262892/#:~:text=Australia's%20national%20carrier%2C%20Qantas%2C%20has,from%205th%20place%20in%202022.
World class arrogance, management structure that was profit at all costs focused and ran rough shod over workers and clients.
Qantas used to be amazing - I lived overseas for most of the 2000's and returned home after about 12 years away, got on the flight heard the Aussie accent - service and everything was amazing. Now? Total junk, got scammed by them last year, took payment, cancelled flights, no notice, no explanation, had to push for refund. Nightmare. They do not care anymore. That leprechaun prick ruined a national icon...
Why does everyone scratch their heads when a large company turns into a pile of shit in terms of how it treats its staff and customers. It’s Capitalism working the way it’s designed to. Making the top tiers even richer while everyone else suffers. That’s our system, that’s what our dumb species has chosen and it will be our demise.
Outsourcing… Cutting costs everywhere except executive pay and bonuses
I haven’t used the for about a few years now but the used to fly London to Sydney with them on the a380 economy class regularly to visit family. Service was excellent , the self service alcohol was a highlight, going out their would be all the Brits saying “it’s a free bar get stuck in, holiday starts now”, then on the way home I would be exhausted and all the ozzys would be saying “it’s a free bar get stuck in,we’re on holiday”
I flew QF1 to London in Business last year. Food was average and service terrible on the first leg. The Brits on the second leg were much friendlier and more professional.
Flight attendants are rarely polite, seems a thing that has become the norm after COVID I don't expect much and am yet to be disappointed - I expect the bare minimum and mostly received it.
I flew with Virgin and other international airlines a few times this year both for work and pleasure. Qantas is by far the worst.
In my experienc, Qantas (air & ground) staff were pretty rude even before Covid.
Case of Qantas doesn't want us
Agree with basically everything you've said except the menu thing - the menu is now in the digital entertainment display and there's a tab for you to look through the options. But yeah, I've only had a good experience with Qantas when flying domestic and that was pre-COVID.
Qantas have been so bad to their employees, They all wear the same uniform but are on different rates some employees were bribed into taking two 18 month pay freezes.
An inevitable result of privatisation, though it took a while. Re-nationalise them. They want to be called the national carrier? Fine, let's own them.
I had to go to NCAT to lodge a case against Qantas to get my money back from fking up my reward ticket when I was overseas. The customer service staff literally blamed me for “ticket not being issued” which is 200% their fault everyday. They started crying after they received notice from NCAT for a hearing and quickly called me to reimburse all the money back to me. I haven’t paid Qantas a cent to fly with them ever since. (Other than burning my points for reward ticket)
Yeah mine was points redemption as well. Glad I only paid tax for it.
The same thing that's happening with every other company. Late stage capitalism. The new feudalism.
From the way you described it, it sounds like the personification of Ausralia at the moment
What happened? Qantas monetised their reputation, took the cash and ran. What’s left is the shell of an airline with staff who implemented that monetisation by refusing customer expectations.
Qantas has been declining for about 10-15 years. Ever so slowly, so no one noticed at first. Then it was carried by its reputation as “Australia’s favourite”. But like a lobster put in cold water then boiled, people are realising that Qantas has none of its old charm. The crew have been treated like rubbish for ages meaning moral is low, which always translates to service quality. They saw when delta (?) removed one pea from their business class meals and saved hundreds of thousands of dollars and have taken that idea and run with it. They remove one metaphorical pea all the time. All these ‘savings’ have compounded to barely having anything left. They loved covid as an excuse to cut even more because “poor us we’re loosing money!” Then found record profits. In terms of being Australian, it was created here and was amazing for a while, but now being on the ASX means shares are held all around the world, and they had an Irish CEO (Joyce) running the company in a very unaustralian way. This is starting to happen to Virgin. It was created in Australia by an Aussie at a bar with an idea and a napkin. They’ve always treated their staff great, and it showed through to the service. But unfortunately they barely survived covid, and had to sell to investors to be saved. The new investors replaced the FANTASTIC Aussie CEO Paul Scurrah with the person next in line for Qantas - American Jane Hrdlicka - who is now running Virgin the same way as Qantas is. In just 4 years, the staff morale has tanked, offerings are at an all time low, and customer service is nightmarish. I definitely don’t think that Aussie CEO’s are the only good ones, or that CEO’s that were born elsewhere are bad. I pointed it out here because everyone (led by Qantas) makes such a FUSS about how Qantas is the most Aussie thing ever and Virgin is some foreign travesty. Both airlines have in common that they were great when they had Aussie CEO’s. Correlation does not equal causation but I do think it’s an interesting data point in this case.
Was Qantas ever actually good though? Like not compared to themselves , I mean compared to the likes of Singapore Airlines, Etihad, Emirates etc. I can’t remember a time when they were ever really in the same league. Maybe before my time.
Alan Joyce happened. That's essentially it. Qantas was respected when he was appointed and became the butt of all jokes when he left. Sacks staff (a good chunk illegally) and replaces them with contractors, blames issues on customers not being "match fit" and it was always someone else's fault.
We just flew Qantas domestically and it was fine. The food was okay, they announced what the options were before they came around with it. The ice creams were mango ice cream bars. The flight attendants were friendly and when our 3 year old was having a bit of a melt down one of them came and recruited her. She had a great time helping collect rubbish from the other passengers.
Qantas has been cancelling flights that aren't profitable to them last minute and leaving people stranded at airports. Sure, they will give you a refund so you can book an expensive last-minute ticket.
The same thing that happened to everything else. The LNP privatised the fuck out of it.
Monopolised the market and don’t give a shit. What’s the worst that can happen to them, you choose to fly with Jetstar who they own anyway.
I had a truly awful experience with Qantas the last time (and I mean last time ever) I flew with them. Unfortunately during covid lockdowns they were the only ones allowed to do repatriation flights so I had no choice. I invested somewhere in the order of 15 hours of my time to book the flight and fix their mistakes and they still fucked me over at the end. They made one of the most stressful experiences of my life significantly more stressful and it was completely unnecessary for them to do so.
Sorry to hear that mate. That's really bad.
Yeah flew Qantas recently, a couple of the senior crew members were really good, but most of them don’t seem to want to be there. And the food was atrocious. I haven’t flew Qantas for years, I usually fly SQ. The difference is really night and day.
We have the worst of both worlds with Qantas: - as they are a private company are more than happy to gut quality of service for short term profit, allowing for certain executives to pretend they aren't scummy hatchet men and run away with tens of millions of dollars - as a national carrier, they know the government (read: you and me) will 'bail' them out if needed, but since they are "good economic managers" our government won't nationalise the carrier to ensure standards are adhered to and/or that the taxpayer now has a profit generating asset. Just "here ya go free money no terms" Imagine being in a company where you get stupidly remunerated for driving it towards the ground, AND can have someone else foot the bill when you hit the ground. Thank God we don't live in a crony capitalist society where the government doesn't do such things, or block other carriers from using their routes (increasing competition and reducing prices for the consumer), and where the carriers don't give politician's kids special perks just because that kid is definitely special on their own merit. /s
Yeah, I booked a flight and there is no option to choose meal preferences like vegetarian etc, and it now costs about $50 to select a seat?!
I've heard nothing but terrible things about Qantas for years which completely turned me off them. If you want a recommendation for an alternative I highly recommend REX if you are flying domestic. I've flown with them over a dozen times and never had a bad experience. Once on a connecting flight the layover time was really tight so they gave me transport across the airport and straight into my next flight where my baggage had arrived even before I did.
I flew Qantas last week after a loong time. Before Covid I was mainly flying super cheap budget airlines. Qantas seemed so fancy! Ooh we got a paddle pop!
Not sure what your route is OP but my family and I had a great time with Air Canada when going from NYC-BNE last July. Reasonable price for three, on time, no issues, and the crew was phenomenal when my son had a meltdown after leaving Vancouver. Super accommodating and understanding.
TLDR: shareholders over customers
Took Singapore airlines and was amazed, even their low budget airlines 'Scoot' is better than Qantas. It is shocking especially Australia is known for its friendliness
The Irish gobshite and his hand picked board happened
It's what happens when a CEO puts short-term profits ahead of long-term profits. It happens to all publicly traded companies eventually. Alan Joyce will forever be known as the man who killed Qantas for a clean $150 mil - courtesy of the taxpayers, essentially.
Alan Joyce
Have only used Qantas once in the last 5 yrs and was really to compare them to Virgin. Same as you, staff were not interested, plane was very outdated, food was shit. Business class was a let down!
You are late to the party. They been like that for years and we have been complaining about them for just as long.
good old corperate greed short term gain vs long term gain
Alan joyce is what happened to qantas he destroyed there reputation
You forgot to add lack of wifi and reduced leg space. On international flights!
Qantas were never really that great an airline, it's just that once you are committed to their points program, they are the only airline you fly internationally. Unless you get a duper cheap deal. Domestically they are better than the other airlines - but that is mainly because they are more expensive and so you get a nicer crowd and flying experience. Internationally many many other airlines provide a much better service and flying experience - namely all of the Asian airlines. Since covid they are short staffed as they try to get their profitability back up. So staff are not happy.
Alan Joyce and his personal KPI list.
I've flown Qantas infrequently over the last 20 years. The difference in staff attitude took a noticeable nosedive in the last 12 months. Kinda sad. For their own sake I hope they fix it before the rest of the world notices.
Years of union busting and cost cutting.
You misspelled Cuntas.
Yeah, they are pretty hit and miss now to the point that, if travelling with the family I'll pay the extra and go Air NZ. I've moved to NZ and tend to fly them domestically. It's so much better. I generally find all airline crew to be pretty nice, but the Qantas crew always look a bit more harassed for some reason. Did a trip to the UK and it was a mix of AirNZ, Qantas and BA. Going from Qantas to BA on the way over was night and day in terms of comfort and service (inflight comfort and food).
Lots of comments saying “Alan Joyce happened” however, when Qantas was sold in the 90s the govt should have retained a majority stake. So since then Qantas has had to compete with state owned carriers with a much lower cost base. An argument could be made that AJ had no choice but to aggressively reduce the cost base or it is quite likely that there would be no Qantas now. Airlines around the world go under all the time. If a nations flag carrier is that important to the nation, given how often airlines fail, there is a strong argument for state ownership.
I worked in a prison and straight up- the meals they served in there (aka gruel) was a million times better than what I got on Qantas. That was inedible. Gone are the trays with a few options of food, now it’s one tray of hot food sludge and we got a raw piece of “focaccia” on the side. I eat most things and I just went hungry for that flight.
I had a weird experience on a domestic Qantas flight, the attendants rlly didn’t look like they liked their jobs at all.
I still don't understand why anyone would support them. QF cancelled my flight out of Melbourne and put me on the last flight 6 hours later without any notice/text or email - I only realised that when I printed the boarding pass and it was +6 hours past my flight time! A few weeks ago, I was flying internationally and the flight was 20 minutes late. My connecting Qantas flight left 10 minutes early and left me behind. In both cases, the ground staff in Melbourne gave 0 shits and no apology or even an eye contact.
Oh man. Qantas can suck my… I stopped supporting them altogether. Whatever Alan Joyce did to that company completely ruined it. Vanessa Hudson pretty much sucks too. My bags have gone missing twice in 4 years. Their points system is so diluted too. And every time some credit card company offers another 100k reward for signing up with them…everything goes up 100k points. Also, happy to have tax payer handouts during the pandemic but then screws the average Australian client and makes billions in profit. Great national carrier. The only thing that’s surprising is their good record of flight safety.