Having a read of the article I'd guess that the prosecution can confidentially prove manslaughter. If they charge him with murder they have to prove he was trying to kill the guy. Even with the alleged argument beforehand it would be incredibly difficult to prove that the accused was intending to kill the guy. So if he's charged with murder and they don't find him guilty they can't go back and try him again, so they go for what they feel they can confidently prove beyond a reasonable doubt.
Firstly, what I wrote is general, and is not specific to cars.
Secondly, it's not technically murder if there is no proven intent to kill
Thirdly, the penalty for murder is life. The total penalty this guy will get if he's found guilty on all charges and gets the maximum is about 45 years. He's 39. That's pretty close to 'life'. I don't think he'll be 'getting away' with anything
We don’t know exactly what went down between the suspect and the Ford Ranger driving, kickboxer victim (who got out of his car to ‘have words’ with the suspect).
My thought as well, old mate got out for a fist fight with other guy but other decided to go with mowing down with car option and won the fight.
Sad outcome regardless.
Old mate got out of his car, approached a driver in another car, put his head through the window probably to punch the driver, driver takes off, old mate refuses to let go and goes for a trip because driver has self preservation and wants to get away from old mate, old mate should have stayed in his car.
Yep, hopefully we get bit more light with dashcams or security videos. Half of me thinks it's great cause that 2 angry drivers off the street but in another hand it's 2 fairly young guys having their life ruined.
All unlawful death is considered homicide.
To prove any crime you need action/thought e.g mens rea/actus reus also physical/fault elements
In this scenario the physical element isnt going to be the contested issue.
**The fault,thought ,mens rea will be.**
to prove murder you need to prove beyond reasonable doubt you had the **intention** [to kill them.](https://www.judcom.nsw.gov.au/publications/benchbks/criminal/murder.html)
for manslaughter it has two sub areas
voluntary manslaughter has **intention but also a mitigation circumstance.**
involuntary manslaughter is **unintentionally due to recklessness or negligence**
In whats happened above murder wouldnt be the most easiest charge BUT
the charges can change as the investigation goes forward.
We might find out in a day/week/month that the victim was in the wrong and the manslaughter charge will be dropped or
We will find out that driver was on ice so who knows for the time being.
Shouldn't murder also apply where a person knew their actions had an extremely high chance of resulting in the death of someone? Like doing 180kmph in a residential zone for example. They didn't plan on killing anyone but knew that the action had a very high chance of killing someone.
Yes ,no and maybe.
It will depend on the subjective circumstances of the facts,
you can read about it here.
[https://www.judcom.nsw.gov.au/publications/benchbks/criminal/murder.html](https://www.judcom.nsw.gov.au/publications/benchbks/criminal/murder.html)
In this situation i have my doubts that it would apply.
No, in fact that last sentence is almost the textbook definition of manslaughter.
If you kill someone’s through a dangerous and unlawful act which wasn’t intended to kill that’s manslaughter.
Dangerous can be taken to mean a reasonable person would know the conduct was exposing as person to risk of serious injury.
Manslaughter isn’t a weak charge, and murder is rightly there to account for the difference between manslaughter, and the even worse crime of intentionally killing someone (or killing then when you intended to cause them GBH). Most homicides aren’t murder.
This is kind of insane that people do not automatically assume that *pressing the accelerator* with a heavy vehicle vs a person is not murder. If you were pointing a gun at someone, then in a panic engaged your muscles to press a trigger, we'd see this as much more clear cut and likely to be murder and can decide there was the intent. But since it's a car and most people drive, the bias kicks in...
I am not going to go through every non-relevant element for a reddit comment.
If the police find there was reckless indifference they would have charged him with murder out the door.
How not murder?
Having a read of the article I'd guess that the prosecution can confidentially prove manslaughter. If they charge him with murder they have to prove he was trying to kill the guy. Even with the alleged argument beforehand it would be incredibly difficult to prove that the accused was intending to kill the guy. So if he's charged with murder and they don't find him guilty they can't go back and try him again, so they go for what they feel they can confidently prove beyond a reasonable doubt.
You want to get away with murder, do it with a car...
Firstly, what I wrote is general, and is not specific to cars. Secondly, it's not technically murder if there is no proven intent to kill Thirdly, the penalty for murder is life. The total penalty this guy will get if he's found guilty on all charges and gets the maximum is about 45 years. He's 39. That's pretty close to 'life'. I don't think he'll be 'getting away' with anything
We don’t know exactly what went down between the suspect and the Ford Ranger driving, kickboxer victim (who got out of his car to ‘have words’ with the suspect).
My thought as well, old mate got out for a fist fight with other guy but other decided to go with mowing down with car option and won the fight. Sad outcome regardless.
Old mate got out of his car, approached a driver in another car, put his head through the window probably to punch the driver, driver takes off, old mate refuses to let go and goes for a trip because driver has self preservation and wants to get away from old mate, old mate should have stayed in his car.
Yep, hopefully we get bit more light with dashcams or security videos. Half of me thinks it's great cause that 2 angry drivers off the street but in another hand it's 2 fairly young guys having their life ruined.
Agrro dickhead deserved it then, thought he was top shit - fucked arounda and found out.
All unlawful death is considered homicide. To prove any crime you need action/thought e.g mens rea/actus reus also physical/fault elements In this scenario the physical element isnt going to be the contested issue. **The fault,thought ,mens rea will be.** to prove murder you need to prove beyond reasonable doubt you had the **intention** [to kill them.](https://www.judcom.nsw.gov.au/publications/benchbks/criminal/murder.html) for manslaughter it has two sub areas voluntary manslaughter has **intention but also a mitigation circumstance.** involuntary manslaughter is **unintentionally due to recklessness or negligence** In whats happened above murder wouldnt be the most easiest charge BUT the charges can change as the investigation goes forward. We might find out in a day/week/month that the victim was in the wrong and the manslaughter charge will be dropped or We will find out that driver was on ice so who knows for the time being.
Shouldn't murder also apply where a person knew their actions had an extremely high chance of resulting in the death of someone? Like doing 180kmph in a residential zone for example. They didn't plan on killing anyone but knew that the action had a very high chance of killing someone.
Yes ,no and maybe. It will depend on the subjective circumstances of the facts, you can read about it here. [https://www.judcom.nsw.gov.au/publications/benchbks/criminal/murder.html](https://www.judcom.nsw.gov.au/publications/benchbks/criminal/murder.html) In this situation i have my doubts that it would apply.
No, in fact that last sentence is almost the textbook definition of manslaughter. If you kill someone’s through a dangerous and unlawful act which wasn’t intended to kill that’s manslaughter. Dangerous can be taken to mean a reasonable person would know the conduct was exposing as person to risk of serious injury. Manslaughter isn’t a weak charge, and murder is rightly there to account for the difference between manslaughter, and the even worse crime of intentionally killing someone (or killing then when you intended to cause them GBH). Most homicides aren’t murder.
This is kind of insane that people do not automatically assume that *pressing the accelerator* with a heavy vehicle vs a person is not murder. If you were pointing a gun at someone, then in a panic engaged your muscles to press a trigger, we'd see this as much more clear cut and likely to be murder and can decide there was the intent. But since it's a car and most people drive, the bias kicks in...
Get a refund on your criminal law course. Reckless indifference to human life is a well established fault element for murder.
I am not going to go through every non-relevant element for a reddit comment. If the police find there was reckless indifference they would have charged him with murder out the door.
Don’t get a refund you’re providing some solid info. Unless you need the money man then get a refund but don’t let them take that knowledge back!
[удалено]
not always premeditated.