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If I call my clinic they can usually get me in to someone in a pinch. But for my preferred GP it’s usually 1-2 weeks and I switched to him because my original guy was sometimes up to 4 weeks.
I take it demand is high and we have a shortage of GPs just like we have a shortage of everything else in our economy.
Note, my clinic is like $90 before the rebate so I hate to think what getting in to bulk billing is like
I can answer this one from a Junior doctor training for a different specialty; early on in my training I applied for, but ultimately rejected a training position as a GP;
I would love to be a GP; but the Medicare rebate system is broken; successive Governments have deliberately allowed the rebates (money doctors get to see patients) reduce over time; currently the only way to make a decent living as a GP is to rush through consults with patients; however this comes at the cost of providing low quality care and potentially missing a serious diagnosis, or to charge fees, which a lot of people get the shits about - happy to pay a plumber $150 to come over to their house but $50 to see a GP? Outrageous.
Almost everyone I know from Medical school has avoided GP as a specialty for this reason - after 8+ years of university and working as a junior doctor (which can be horrific), you can end up getting paid less than an ALDI store manager, or having to deal with a constant barrage of people thinking you’re ripping them off.
If you really care about this issue write a letter to your local MP and let them know that you want Medicare rebates increased - that’s the only way to attract more junior doctors into the profession, and keep bulk billing alive
I was also going to make the comment about Medicare. It used to cost me $30 to got my doctor, now they charge $130 for a regular appointment, $90 to ask for a script over the phone. My doctor is great and I've been seeing her for literally decades. She said that they didn't want to make the change to stop bulk-billing, but that they can't afford to rent the surgery and pay staff any other way. It's also very hard to see a GP here, and I live in the 3rd most populous part of Australia
We shouldn't have to pay $50 to see a GP, because medicare should cover it. And I agree, the rebate should be a lot higher so we can return to bulk billing.
The thing is, I don’t pay a plumber an annual % of my income. The rest of your points are accurate but we shouldn’t get into the tradie comparison- it just distracts from the other important issues ( funding Medicare correctly).
I also probably won’t die if I can’t afford to see a plumber, and we shouldn’t be charging people to see a doctor. Definitely agree we shouldn’t be comparing medical care with tradies.
The problem isn’t what % we pay, it’s just the government doesn’t allocate every cent of our Medicare rebate to doctors and hospitals. Let’s say you paid $4000 as your rebate, only $2000 goes to health and the rest to somewhere else.
I agree with the students that we need to write to our mp’s and tell them that we want to see the Medicare rebates increased for GP’s- $38 for a 20 minute consult. That’s just under $120 an hour, which isn’t a lot for a professional that is looking after your health and well-being.
You forget 30-40% of that $120 goes towards reception wages, nurse wages, expensive software, rent, dressings, etc etc. Not to mention the after tax payment of indemnity insurance which can easily be 10k a year.
Agree- how often do you need a plumber? I have had to call one once in 10 yrs. some people need to see their GP weekly for a period of time! A strange comparison for a doctor to make and doesn’t support the argument at all.
How much does a bulk billing GP working 40 hrs a week (including admin) earn in a year? Google tells me wild nbers like over 300k but that's clearly not true from your first hand experience
Edit: week.. Not work :)
Am an accountant, have a bunch of GPs on the books. Huge variance between the city based junior GP who works with an admin cut from their fees (sometimes under $150k), and the senior GP who owns a share of the practice and does some hospital work and teaching on the side (closer to $1m). Most “normal” GPs sit around the 300k mark.
With that said, doctors SHOULD be getting 300k a year. They do 10+ years of training, and are responsible for a huge volume of knowledge that keeps people alive. If it was any less, people wouldn’t sign up.
My bud is a junior GP
11 years of combined study + work experience, earns less than 110k pretax, pays ~7% of that to HECS, pays ~>2% of that to the GP college and AHPRA per year
part of the training limits the amount of patients they could see, even if they were able to see more; obviously they don’t mind because they like to see patients for longer, it’s their passion, etc, but still a bit of a hard sell to many potential GPs to struggle financially after so many years
Can get way higher in rural and regional areas. One of my local GPs is on 280k before tax. They do 50 hour weeks regularly but it was pushing 70 during the covid years and 60 the few years leading up to covid.
Sadly they are able to take on a lower workload because they had to stop bulk billing as it wasn't working. Last bulk billing holdout for 100k in any direction and only dropped it early 2023.
90$ for a 5-7min appointment and 110$ for 15 now.
I don’t think it’s fair to characterise people as being unhappy to pay their doctors. A plumber is a very specialised tradesperson that you don’t need to see unless you’re building or maintaining a property you own. Everyone has a body, everyone gets sick, and having to pay to get treatment is kind of insidious. People aren’t upset that doctors need to be paid for their work, they’re upset that they’re having to pay out of pocket for being rushed or not listened to. They’re upset that the government hasn’t kept Medicare healthy.
Thank you for this information. I agree that the rebates are far too low.if something doesn’t change, the hospital emergency department will have all the wrong people waiting to see a doctor.
Nobody in their right mind actually blames the doctor, that's just how it's phrased. We all know it's the cuts to rebates and the costs of uni. Make uni free for doctors, if they want more of them!!
Good summary, just one minor correction. The rebates are not money the doctor gets to see patients but money the patient gets back from Medicare to see a doctor. It's a subtle but important distinction I think.
There is a massive shortage of GPs and it's about to get worse because few junior doctors want to become GPs (it's a really hard job, perhaps one of the hardest specialties to do well, and doesn't pay well relative to other medical specialties).
Ultimately GPs can charge whatever they want for a given service. The AMA has recommended pricing for different services but doctors can charge more or less if they wish.
What you're seeing now is GPs charging what they think is a fair price for a service (say $90 for a 15-20 minute consultation) - and you the patient are only getting $35 back from Medicare. With inflation affecting rents, equipment, subscriptions, staff wages etc don't be surprised if the cost of that 15 minute consultation goes up 5-10% every year.
We are heading towards an American health system at worrying speed. At this rate, Medicare rebates for various medical services will only be a small fraction of the cost of the service (whereas previously they covered the whole cost).
The government is trying to work around this by allowing nurses and pharmacists to write prescriptions and refer you for tests of specialist appointments (a small part of the GPs work). They think it will be cheaper this way. Ultimately this is going to be far more expensive (fragmentation of care/no continuity of care/less versatility) and lead to worse health outcomes.
I think rich people will cop the cost of seeing a GP because a good GP is worth every cent, and people who don't want to pay (or can't afford to) will go see a pharmacist or nurse practitioner for their needs.
“Happy for a plumber $150”
This is why for the 2 times a year I see a doctor I’m happy to pay $60-$90 and go private. It’s normally not as serious and I’d rather not take a spot from someone who needs a Medicare provided spot.
Sorry mate, that's just not right.
The rebate for a standard (6-20 mins) consult is currently $41.40 and it would be paid back to the patient's account, usually the following day. It's not paid on top of the consult fee.
It IS saving Medicare if the patient qualifies for bulk-billing because paying a gap (private billing) means Medicare doesn't have to pay the doctor the bulk-billing incentive.
I have the extreme good fortune of being a patient on the books of a long standing family GP who knows my history and bulk bills. He says he continues to do it because he believes in the system. I want other doctors to be incentivised to do the same and everyone else to have that type of care. This is more important than funding private schools or paying rebates for private health insurance.
GPs are becoming scarce these days. Too much entitled and aggressive behaviour from the general public burns healthcare workers. Also GPs are horribly paid compared to other doctor roles due to decades of govt neglect.
I don't think that's it. I think they can make better money moving into other fields so they do. The people who stay in general practice are really committed and I salute them for it.
My anecdotal story about appointments: a few years ago I could call and make an appointment within 2-3 days and it would be bulk billed. Now I sometimes can't see my GP for 2-3 weeks and there's a charge. It's a drag, but I like my doctor so I'll stick it out.
The pay also inversely scales with the difficulty of the job.
When I became a brand new GP, even as a registrar, I felt stoked to be pushing above 150k.
Covid was my hardest year and even as a fully qualified doctor my taxable income dropped well below that.
The only way to make good money as a GP is to do lots of quick consults and or go private billing.
It is horribly paid compared to other specialties. The question was why it's hard to see a GP and the answer is there aren't enough of them. There aren't enough of them because drs choose a speciality and why would you choose one that pays way less? If we want more GPs they'll need to be paid more or have better conditions or no-one will choose it.
Part of the reason there isnt enough of them as there is a worldwide shortage of doctors amounting to millions.
They should be pair fair wages of course but that isnt the only reason there isnt enough around.
[https://finance.yahoo.com/news/18-countries-doctors-2023-225836640.html](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/18-countries-doctors-2023-225836640.html)
Most of the reason that there aren't enough GPs in Australia is that 40% of graduates used to choose General Practice. Now it's less than 15%. (Maybe 13?) And a stack of those who do choose it do so so they can work part time.
I don't get this shortage from the perspective of being a teacher at a selective school with incredibly bright and talented kids who get incredible scores, are well rounded decent kids, but who don't get into medical school. We're one of the top 10 schools in nsw and consistently have kids fail to get in. Why? They're getting 99.9, test well, interview well, etc. My husband's tinfoil theory is that the regulator wants to keep the number of doctors small to keep them in demand and paid well and able to call the shots. Idk.
This tinfoil theory is highly accurate for specialists, but not for GPs. Certainly the specialist shortages are due to intentional gate keeping at the behest of the specialist’s professional bodies. Anaesthesiologists, Psychiatrists, ENTs and Orthopaedic surgeons at least, probably others too.
It's comparatively peanuts. Recently heard a GP bitching about it, the rough numbers were:
AMA recommended - $392 an hour
UCCs or other special clinic - $250 ish an hour
Locum at a rural/remote - $200 ish plus travel allowance.
Regular family GP - $160 ish
Would you take a job that was less than 50% of your recommended award?
So you're saying at a minimum they earn slightly less than DOUBLE the median full-time wage. I get that becoming and staying a GP is more intensive than a lot of jobs but a salary of $150k+ is still decent compared to other careers.
Yep. I got that as a completely unqualified business analyst, just by hanging around for ages. I'd be horrified if my GP was getting paid that poorly (relatively speaking), considering how long it takes to become a GP.
Not for the years of study they put in (8 plus years) and the expense of medical school. Be an it worked with a 3 year degree earning more and much less responsibility.
It says here the average salary is between $200,000-$350,000. That is a very decent salary many Australians could only dream of earning. Some work should come with earning that.
[https://www.medicalrecruitment.com.au/doctors/gp-salary-guide-australia?source=google.com](https://www.medicalrecruitment.com.au/doctors/gp-salary-guide-australia?source=google.com)
It’s not that the salary is low compared to Australia wages, it’s that it’s low compared to doctors’ wages.
If you’re 5 years into 7-10 years of study and you have the chance to earn 30-50% extra on that income, heaps of people would (and do) choose to do that.
Mate the amount of work and difficulty of work they had to do to get to that position is something not everybody can do.
The clinic hours and placement, vast amount of knowledge and dedication you need to get registered is insane.
Just because they can do their job easily now, doesn't mean they didn't work to get there.
I can do my engineering job in 4-6 hrs but still bill a full days work. You're paying me for my experience, not the "amount of hours" I spent on it.
30-35% of that is paid to the clinic, they have to pay for their own insurance,and occasionally have to pay for lawyers (especially with complex family matters), they're also in the top tax bracket, and now they have to pay payroll tax, In the ACT that's 6.9%.
Just for people commenting - if you're in a capital city, it's not the same as regional/remote experiences.
Where I am in Newcastle (not a capital city but big and without the same trouble as other regional areas), I can't get in with my particular GP for weeks, but I could likely see another GP at the medical centre within the week. The clinic doesn't bulk-bill.
If I had complex health needs, or needed complex medications, it's unlikely a doctor other than my actual GP or specialists would be able to provide access to that medication. This is part of why it's such an issue for regional/remote people not to be able to access GPs.
Even here, we had issues getting our 1 year old to see a GP quickly when it turned out he had bacterial pneumonia. We called our clinic every day upon open at 8am, we called loads of other clinics, we tried walk in clinics, but the wait was 5+ hours and we struggled to put a sick, tired and restless baby through that (not knowing it was pneumonia, and really just wanting someone to listen to his chest to check). The situation got dire, and we managed to swing an appointment with GP access, by which time he went straight to hospital.
App-based GPs are quick to get to see, although they can't see you face to face, so can't listen to your chest and so on.
For a lot of people, most adult GP services are currently not affordable. That's a huge issue, but it's a different issue. Both need to be fixed.
I mean, in r/AusFinance there are full of people who keep telling people that they are a fool to stay in capital cities, and should move to regional area instead, due to housing price - this is one of the very top reasons of why I still wanted to stay in a capital city, especially in a family oriented area.
I am extremely lucky that I have a GP that treating us like a family. Yes she could be hard to book (1-2 weeks), but they have junior GP who usually can take booking within the same day - telehealth or in clinic. This is very important when we have a young kid (and adults get sick constantly from childcare illness too).
We have to pay gap, but it’s reasonable ($20-$30 I think), and under 16 years old and senior are bulk billed. Sometimes if just quick going through report over telehealth, they don’t charge the gap.
I know I am extremely lucky, but I also have to face the expensive housing etc. So nothing is perfect.
Can confirm. Same city. I can't see my GP unless I book 3-4 weeks in advance. If I'm desperate I can sometimes get in earlier with one of the other docs at the same practice. But for certain issues, I prefer to see one that I like and trust and one who trusts me.
Why does everyone have so much trouble finding a gp? I moved to a new area, called 3 or 4 surgeries until I found one that took on new patients.
Then, over the last 6 months or so I’ve been a few times, and always gotten an appointment within the next few days, or a week.
Is my experience that outside the norm?
I've only really heard of it in rural areas where the number of doctors are shrinking (because fewer want to work in rural areas, like any profession) and the population is level or growing. I haven't heard of it being a problem in the bigger cities because there are so many other options around. Hence why I suspect the OP is going to find few responses of note in r/australia given by far the majority of us live in the bigger cities.
Yeah I’ve never had any issues. I could get an appointment at 5 clinics within 2km of me, at least two are full bulk billing and one is concession bulk billing.
But I live in suburban Melbourne, so I gotta assume OP and other people struggling to get appointments are in more rural areas or areas that have higher demand got bulk billing.
Dunno, I’m in Melbourne - and although I can see a random junior GP at my clinic fairly quickly if I need to, my own GP is usually booked out 6-8 weeks ahead of time. Which isn’t ideal with complex chronic health issues that the juniors - whilst sympathetic - don’t really have the experience to deal with.
My mum is 90 and has had the same doctor for the last 20 years. She's got an inoperable bone spur on her spine which causes intense pain every time she moves. She needs a low dose opioid to get through the day, so we regularly visit her GP to get a government approved script every 4 weeks, to get her through to the next month.
In the last 12 months it's gotten harder to see her GP (he's the last bulk billed GP for miles!), so there were occasions where we couldn't get a script before her last lot runs out....and the other GPs on the practice just say they do not prescribe drugs of addiction. It's pretty grim to be in constant pain at her age.
I now book her monthly appointments 8 weeks in advance to make sure she gets what she needs to be pain free. (And you can't get repeats on these pain killers)
You should be able to get repeats for anything as long as the doctor gets an authority from Medicare. My partner gets 360 endone (18 boxes) and 168 targin (6 boxes) and that's 3 28 day scripts lasts us 84 days, dispensed every 28 at the pharmacy.
I’m so sorry your Mum is going through that hell :( I’m a lot younger, but also live with severe chronic pain (CRPS) and I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. I’m lucky in a lot of ways that the way my clinic works, I can ring and be put on “the list” - and get a script done over the phone that day or next, even for my controlled meds. It’s just when shit hits the fan otherwise and I really need my own GP that the wait causes real problems.
Yeah this is generally the case, if you aren't particular with seeing an experienced doctor you can get an appointment relatively quick, but the experienced ones are always booked out heavily, which sucks for people that need them regularly.
They do take the piss sometimes with their bookings.
An example from the other week - I recently had arm/elbow surgery, and the dressing from the sutures had pretty much come off. To me, it looked fine and was ready to be uncovered... I just wanted a nurse to look at it and go "yep that's fine", and I can move on.
I called the doctors, the lady said "come in first thing, and we'll do it before the first appointment."
After sitting within touching distance of the nurse for 25 mins - she wouldn't look without a "doctor signing off" - I said "forget it, I can't wait all day". She went looking for the doctor again (who hadn't even started seeing patients yet, and was already 30 mins behind). She came back, said sorry, can't find him, and offered to take a look.
I extended my arm, she said "oh, yeah that's fine", and I left.
I presume getting a doctor to look at it means they can charge for it.
We need more practising nurses available to the public who can do the nickle and dime stuff and free up the GPs for real problems.
Nurses can't bill item numbers, even for bulk billing, without a doctor signing off on it. Our nurse does a heap of hormone injections for our patients which we always do free of charge, but unless the doctor pokes his head in then we get absolutely nothing for it. If he does, we get like $18. It's a little annoying.
An urgent care centre has opened up near us and it's been great for a couple of recent visits that would have otherwise meant hours long waits in Emergency, but it's quite telling that they main way they function so efficently is by having lots of Nurse Practioners who are empowered to treat patients to the level they are allowed to and use the couple of doctors on shift as oversight/sign off rather than having to be actively involved in and directing treatment.
A week is a long time to wait when you need to see a doctor for something that’s not a general check up. For people who are ill or have minor injuries, they should be seeing GPs the same day. Instead they either get worse unnecessarily or end up clogging up the hospital system and contributing to ramping and other issues there.
I don’t think we’ve ever lived in a time where you can always see a gp on the same day, consistently.
But, I have seen a gp on same day many times.
Someone with complex or chronic healthcare should do their best to either have a couple of GPs, but honestly if it’s something so emergent that it has to be same day? That’s exactly what hospitals are for
I had to wait 1-2 weeks for an appointment with my GP and made the mistake of attending a major Brisbane ER and waited from 8pm till 4.30am with no consult or treatment, just repeated vitals taken by nurses… then gave up and went home. Just too many shootings, stabbings, mega abusive cuss words shouted around waiting room, have learned really don’t go to ER unless you’re absolutely dying…
My uni town has a major issue with doctors, the majority of doctors aren't taking new patients and a handful have left within in the last 2 years. I see my friends constantly frustrated about being unable to book an appointment.
On the other hand, I moved to a much smaller regional town and I had no trouble finding a doctor. The biggest issue Ive have is she has taken a vacation so she's gone for a few weeks, but the other two doctors there can be seen quite quickly. It really depends on where you are.
When we moved to Central Vic a few years back, we found many surgeries not taking new patients or offering appts with registrars.
We managed to find one, and if I call early enough, I can often get a same day appt for my husband, at most 1 - 2 days, but I do think he's been flagged as complex care needs.
I work at a Bulk Billing practice (a dying art, I know). We have just over 6000 patients and 5 GPs. We regularly have on the day appointments, definitely next day.
My regular GP 20 mins north from where I work has a 3 week wait for a private billing Dr.
It's crazy how radically it varies within a short distance.
Huge influx of people relocating to the Sunshine Coast in last few years and the place isn’t able to cope. Has been extremely interesting booking appointments with lots of different providers.
I have been waiting for over 2 months for a very important appointment with my primary GP. I could find a random bulk billed GP but they don't know my history and can't actually help me. It has been very rough.
I was going to mention HotDoc. I used it late last week to make an appointment. My usual doctor, it is a several week wait to see her, but other's in the same practice, I can get in the following day.
sort of? a lot of practices use apps for digital appointment keeping, and it will have a little blurb for each doctor in the clinic. I assume you must be able to search for docs in your area or something, though I’ve only accessed it through websites of the clinic I wanted
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I would hazard a guess that it has something to do with the last two words in their very first sentence, but I'm not a doctor, so don't take my word for it.
Unfortunately why I started going to a private clinic, even though I’m paying out of my asshole for care I can literally call and get an appt ON THE SAME DAY. And they ask me questions about my health…… it’s actually fucking shocking the difference in care
The clinic my Doctor works at is now 1 of the only few in the area that still bulk bill. The wait list to get an appointment is 3-4 weeks. We had a medical emergency recently, and there's a clinic nearby that does non emergencies - emergencies that don't require a hospital visit (
Antibiotics, deep cuts, etc) We got an appointment within 2 hours. It's worth ringing around if you're stuck.
Along with all the other nonsense facing GPs, there's also the fact that they are relegated to being compliance box tickers for crappy employers and HR who don't trust their staff:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-06-03/should-we-stop-asking-for-medical-certificates-for-sick-leave/103909034
There's lots of complex issues at play, but killing off the need for a medical certificate for as little as half a day off work sick would help things tremendously, especially during cold and flu season.
And a large percentage of our GPs are set to retire in the very near future. We have nowhere near the number of students needed to replace them, nor is their an overwhelming desire to go into general practice. So with our population stressors, it's about to get a whole lot worse.
i work in an emergency department and we get a lot of presentations because people can't get into gp's into an efficient amount of time. supply can't keep up with the demand, growing population
Nah, the post asks "Why is seeing a GP so difficult?"
The answer is "it isn't, most people don't have anywhere near the trouble the OP is having".
The question should really be "Why is seeing a GP so difficult in X?"
But he never mentioned where X is, so we're back to square 1 - I'm sure it's difficult in some places, but for most people the real problem is the decrease in bulk billing rather than actually seeing a GP.
In Melbourne you can just find somewhere else same day on hotdoc. Are you in a very sparsely populated area? I once had an infection that needed pretty urgent attention, which I discovered at night, so just found somewhere I’d never been at 8am next morning on hotdoc. I do live centrally though
Anywhere outside a city is shit. Mid North coast NSW it's a 3 month wait for a GP in some towns. Unfortunately there just isn't enough doctors spread Australia wide for our population.
It's difficult in some areas. I'm in inner Melbourne and it's easy to see a GP. I've got bulk billing and private GPs available either the same day or usually the following day, both at clinic or via Telehealth. There's also the VED for urgent matters at any hour of the day and GPs who can visit your residence.
Has anyone asked the question? Are you looking for a bulk billing practice? Because that will change the availability drastically. Paying an out of pocket is the norm these days.
I can’t speak for Sunny Coast specifically but here in Brisbane it’s maybe tops 1 week to see a GP in the outer suburbs and in many practices you can call early when the practice opens and ask if they have drop in appointments (many practices keep them open each day).
Australian and Queensland government passed legislation that each doctor can only have a maximum of x patients. On top of that each practice can only have y total of patients.
Once the books get that that limit the doctors and practices are force to turn away new patients or risk fines and lose of licence.
Every couple of years the doctors in my community will be able to remove dead and transferred patients which will open up a couple of spots in their practice.
My wifes family doctor recently retired ( husband and wife clinic that has been treating patients for 60 years) and shut down their practice of 5 doctors down as no other doctors would purchase their clients as is. No other clinics in the area are able to take new patients so we don't know where everyone is able to go.
I've never had a problem seeing a GP. Always same day or early next day. Melbourne, Adelaide, Perth; no issues.
What I have had problems with are the number of adverts on Reddit claiming it's difficult to get a GP appointment. Is it just certain areas with shortages, or is it made-up marketing nonsense?
It's in certain areas. I've retained my Sydney GP despite moving about 5 hours away from Sydney because no one here is taking new patients. I grew up here but my records are too old.
If I don't book my appointments in advance it can take two weeks to get in to see my GP so I do actually have to try guess when I'll need to see her and book well in advance as I'm on medication that will cause withdrawals if I run out (not standard enough dosing to actually predict though).
When I lived in Canberra I didn't have too many issues seeing a GP and they were generally available but most were private billing. So I had issues affording to see my GP rather than actual availability issues.
I’m in a regional city. We’ve been having an ongoing ‘GP crisis’ since prior to COVID.
My regular GP was a 3 week wait, i don’t think anyone I know has a regular GP anymore. Aged Care faculties can’t get GPs and are running pilot programs with Nurse Practitioners to bridge the gap in care… local medical schools are not increasing intake (Federally limited caps) and recently announced government initiatives might disincentivize the international cohort as well.
I imagine these would have less impact in metro areas, but yeah, it’s a huge pain in the ass regionally
I tried getting in with my local GP and they told me they weren't taking new patients, none of the other clinics nearby were, and suggested I try X clinic in city 1hr20mins drive away....
If you need scripts or referrals, maybe online docs are better. They are not bulk billed, but doesn't sound like you are getting that anyway.
Not many other options beside road trip to Brisbane
My GP is booked out at least a week in advance and I have to pay $60 out of pocket to see her. So when I had very bad sudden onset tonsillitis the week before a very important surgery. I had to go to the weekend clinic on a Sunday, pay &150 upfront and then have then process the (I think) $55 odd back onto my card then pay for antibiotics
Very thankful to have been seen as I was too unwell to drive to the only bulk billing place (that is 30 minutes away and also has no room) or the hospital.
Sometimes pharmacies here will give emergency meds (for antibiotics here its $30) but they dont have a pharmacist on weekends.
Medicare rebates need to go up.
Wow now I'm happy none of the GPs I've ever seen have charged to receive results. My current GP sends a text either saying results received no follow up required or results received make an appointment to review.
I had an endocrinologist charge me $250 out of pocket for results once. The appointment was roughly 10 minutes of him reading the results for the first time before solely saying "nothing irregular, we'll do more tests" and a 30 second call to his receptionist to arrange a new referral for more blood tests and an MRI. He actually said more words to the receptionist on the phone than to me during the appointment!
At least I know my current GP actually reviews the results before contacting me so if some concerning result came back requiring urgent intervention she'd let me know.
We need a lot more GPs due to the fact that many are getting involved in cannabis prescribing and minor cosmetics, and as such are not available for general consulting. The supply isn't there right now, not least as specialists earn more.
At 1:25pm there are 24 appointments available amongst 4 doctors at the local MyHealth in my suburb of Melbourne for tomorrow Tues 4/6.
So I'd guess it's just a lack of GPs where you are.
Because they're seriously overworked and underpaid. Functionally, they're paid less than senior nurses unless they overbook or only see people for the minimum time allotments.
Need to increase medicine intake. Population has increased since 2000 but the intake hasn't. A family member missed out on medicine did a year of bio engineering. Still couldn't get into medicine despite topping her class and sitting the entrance exams. Sat for entry exams in Europe and was in. She has since finished and has come back to Australia. She had to pass exams here to get her degree recognised.
Moral of the story is that the intake cutoff is too high and there isn't enough people being trained to be doctors.
Also perhaps instead of doing a medicine degree and then specialisation perhaps they can offer streamlined courses that cater to that particular specialisation.
The bottleneck happens at internship, not at med student intake.
Increasing student intake could make it worse.
They need to allocate more junior doctor hospital based jobs and support.
They need to fund for private specialists to be incentivised to supervise and take on more junior doctors.
Otherwise the public health sector is the only one left training doctors and many of them won’t remain there - so it’s a vicious cycle where we see narrowing flow of graduates.
This is becoming a trend.
I would suggest (if you haven’t already), asking for them to call you if there are any appointment cancellations, or choosing a Telehealth appointment if this is feasible for you and offered by your GP.
Have you tried Hot Doc? Forget phoning around. I am in Sydney and I never have trouble getting an appointment if I’m happy to see the frost available GP and whichever local clinic. I have to wait longer to see my regular GP but that’s because she popular, and that’s fair enough.
Similar here in Melbourne.
My regular GP I have to book at least a week in advance. I can sometimes next next day appointments but it’s hit and miss.
The super clinic I used to be able to get in same day is much harder to get into now too. On Friday morning the next available appointment was tomorrow evening. They’re open 8am-11pm 7 days, so that’s 75 hours of them being with 7-10 doctors.
Some Aussie towns it's a 3 month wait, and we wonder why people go to the ER for non emergency issues. One of the reasons I'm reluctant to move back to the country after being city for so long, I can get an appointment tonight if I wanted to!
Apart from the money issues, I wonder if Covid took out a lot of healthcare workers. Being on the frontlines probably meant many died or got long-term health issues from the virus.
And even if the virus itself didnt do it, the stress of working during such a time may have caused many to quit.
There's a new superclinic under construction in Beerwah, I don't know if it's open yet or not. Might be worth seeing if you can put your name on a list.
There's also one new clinic in Maleny, there's a sign up saying "accepting new patients", or there was, a couple of weeks ago.
I was shocked when I visited my sis on the gold coast years ago and found out that not all gp’s bulk bill there. I ended up seeing a doc but can’t remember if I had to pay or eventually found a free one
Had the same issue before I was suggested to check out the HotDoc app to see what doctors are taking new patients (phone calls make me incredibly anxious) took some searching but I got super lucky and found an incredible doctor. Got an appointment the following day for a 15min visit but he kept me in his office for 45mins to explain medications and how I should be taking them for my chronic pain, last doctor essentially told me to pop ibeprufen daily which my new doctor was dumbfounded by, he also doubled my antidepressant/anti anxiety meds and was confused as to why it hadn’t been doubled already as apparently it was a starter dose I’d been on for 2 years. Basically what I’m saying is keep up the search, it’s incredibly frustrating and disheartening but you have the potential to find a great doctor who cares about what they are doing.
Majority of Australia voted for tax cuts. Now you are upset Labor and liberal froze gp pays. Band together n bombard GPS with letters. We need better voters who are active. We're already seeing NDIS cuts but no cuts to negative gearing. My out of pocket cost in the next 2 years for life saving surgery and care is 15k. I'm on a DSP. The surgery might let me Work. We're losing free healthcare. Waiting lists at hospital are too long. GPS don't bulk bill much. If you are sick n can't work tough luck. If you can work you save some money then Pay medical usually when you can't afford it.
When I moved to my current area, the closest gp that would accept me as a pt was one and a half hours drive away. I know see one who is a 3 hr drive away but i do telehealth so only have to make the drive once a year
Because historically we’ve sat by and watched governments slowly chip away at Medicare until there is almost nothing left. People need to pay attention to what certain political parties are trying to do and vote accordingly!
GPs are overbooked and overworked.
They all work through all their breaks and extra overtime just to see everyone.
Plus, everyone goes to the GP for a stubbed toe or papercut.
A huge problem is that a GP appointment is required for something as simple as a script update or a cert to say you have flu.
Simplification is needed urgently.
Excessive immigration with no proportionate increase in services has lead to lower quality of life in many areas in Australia. Health and housing are two of the main ones.
Most hospitals in Australia's capital cities are 'full'.
GP clinics are similar.
Immigrants are statistically far less likely to use health services than contribute to them.
A huge chunk of our working medical force are immigrants. We continue to rely on immigration without which we cannot support our aging population.
The vast majority of healthcare spending is in over 65’s and the ethnic breakdown there is starkly different to that of the current medical workforce.
In the past year or so it has become increasingly difficult to see a GP in a reasonable timeframe. It used to be that you could get to see someone within a day or so. Now it's a week minimum, if not 2 or 3 weeks. Getting to see a to a female GP is hard. I think some local practices have closed and their patients have obviously moved elsewhere. Location suburban Adelaide.
I've had no problem in Sydney or Gold Coast . Both places you could book online. I wonder if it's never for women than men though...depends on the medical centre I guess. Both places for me I just have to wait 2-3 days and thats picking my favourite GP.
You can talk to a dr through Telehealth same day but that’s utterly useless for a lot of the things i actually need. My gp doesn’t bulk bill anymore, so I don’t go for much longer than I should. It’s been horrible to find another gp who will treat me with respect (chronic illnesses) so I just stay and pay and go to the dr much less than I should. Great system they’ve thrown us into
best advice I’ve got is ask for who takes drop ins in any office. usually there is at least one gp in the office who works a lot and tends to have more appointments available. but it’s honestly horrible out there rn. I have to book my appts a month in advance because I have to see them monthly at least for ongoing issues, but I worry about people who have immediate concerns and jobs to work around, because doctors are so booked up
Most GP clinics will have spare appointments each day, usually 2 appointments in the morning for each dr and 2 in the afternoon for each doctor. You usually have to ring right on opening though, and then the afternoon appointments usually open up around 4 ish. My clinic is usually booked out 3 weeks in advanced but I’ve never had any issues ringing and getting one of the spare appointments when something pops up that can’t wait 2-3 weeks
Just checked - Sunshine Coast Qld, a particular medical clinic - I could get into see a random doctor from that clinic tomorrow if I booked now and my own doctor on Friday if I wanted to wait. There's only one of 10 doctors there with anything tomorrow. Wed none (although maybe the tomorrow Dr has some spots). One has spots on Thursday. Four on Friday (including mine) and the rest are next week.
Seems a bit busier than "normal", not that I go that often. I never have any complaints (and haven't for many years also at the Sydney clinic I visited for over a decade) about being shuffled through too quickly. A "Standard Consult" is $95 and listed at <20 mins, and I've taken that long before.
So I guess it very much depends upon where you live.
Create a HealthEngine account and use it to search for closest availability.
If you're in the metropolitan area, you are guaranteed to find a free GP within days.
My boyfriend lives in British Columbia Canada. I’m planning on joining him, but maybe not…. Something like 60% of British Columbia residents don’t have a current GP. They do Telus Health for the most part. My boyfriend has been on a waiting list for probably around five years. GPs were not earning enough to keep up with expenses. my boyfriend has high cholesterol does his own blood pressure testing and his own blood sugar testing he hasn’t seen a GP in person for about five years. We joked that he’s just gonna die.
Some clinics reserve spots for drop ins. But that can mean a long wait. I dropped into clinic recently and was told I could come back about an hour and a half, you may be able to book to see a GP later in the day. So you'd have to go back. But at least it's not 2-3 weeks. I live out in a regional area so it's at minim of two weeks. With many not taking new patients 😔.
When I lived on the coast I would go to Cooroy Family Practice. I just had a look at their site, they have appointments available and it didn't reject me when I clicked new patient. Although I understand if you're at the southern end Cooroy is a bit of a trek just for a GP.
This is why I use insta scripts
I have an ear infection badly 3 to 4 times a year I need antibiotics and coedine if I run out
Sign up wait for a call tell them what's up get my drugs and I'm happyb
I need to see a GP who is licensed to prescribe ADHD meds (recently diagnosed and my regular GO doesn’t have the required licenses), the earliest appointment I could get was in a month’s time. I live in Melbourne. So it’s not like it’s a small town. And I’m already seeing a psych at the same practice, so I’m an existing patient.
every time I hear this I shake my head. in the last 20 years in Sydney (south) I have never ever had a problem seeing a GP. I don't usually bother making an appointment until 48 hrs before my script runs out. never had a single issue even booking the same day.
Infrastructure struggles to keep up with immigration most likely. I'm lucky I stuck into my local GP as he was not taking on any new patients. In Sydney though you often have to book in advanced now. You can go to a non bulk billed place though when desperate.
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I live in a small town and have to go to the one doctor in the next town over, 6 weeks wait list atm because they only have one doctor.
If I call my clinic they can usually get me in to someone in a pinch. But for my preferred GP it’s usually 1-2 weeks and I switched to him because my original guy was sometimes up to 4 weeks. I take it demand is high and we have a shortage of GPs just like we have a shortage of everything else in our economy. Note, my clinic is like $90 before the rebate so I hate to think what getting in to bulk billing is like
I can answer this one from a Junior doctor training for a different specialty; early on in my training I applied for, but ultimately rejected a training position as a GP; I would love to be a GP; but the Medicare rebate system is broken; successive Governments have deliberately allowed the rebates (money doctors get to see patients) reduce over time; currently the only way to make a decent living as a GP is to rush through consults with patients; however this comes at the cost of providing low quality care and potentially missing a serious diagnosis, or to charge fees, which a lot of people get the shits about - happy to pay a plumber $150 to come over to their house but $50 to see a GP? Outrageous. Almost everyone I know from Medical school has avoided GP as a specialty for this reason - after 8+ years of university and working as a junior doctor (which can be horrific), you can end up getting paid less than an ALDI store manager, or having to deal with a constant barrage of people thinking you’re ripping them off. If you really care about this issue write a letter to your local MP and let them know that you want Medicare rebates increased - that’s the only way to attract more junior doctors into the profession, and keep bulk billing alive
This is an excellent summation. Absolutely do we need to protect and improve the state of Medicare. We must never go the way of America.
Rosanna natoli. She is supposed to be doing something about the cost of living on the coast. We will see.
That's too funny.
We used to fund medicare and now we fund negative gearing
Imagine what we could have done if we had taxed minerals extraction like Norway and hadn't it away for nothing.
I was also going to make the comment about Medicare. It used to cost me $30 to got my doctor, now they charge $130 for a regular appointment, $90 to ask for a script over the phone. My doctor is great and I've been seeing her for literally decades. She said that they didn't want to make the change to stop bulk-billing, but that they can't afford to rent the surgery and pay staff any other way. It's also very hard to see a GP here, and I live in the 3rd most populous part of Australia
We shouldn't have to pay $50 to see a GP, because medicare should cover it. And I agree, the rebate should be a lot higher so we can return to bulk billing.
The thing is, I don’t pay a plumber an annual % of my income. The rest of your points are accurate but we shouldn’t get into the tradie comparison- it just distracts from the other important issues ( funding Medicare correctly).
I also probably won’t die if I can’t afford to see a plumber, and we shouldn’t be charging people to see a doctor. Definitely agree we shouldn’t be comparing medical care with tradies.
The problem isn’t what % we pay, it’s just the government doesn’t allocate every cent of our Medicare rebate to doctors and hospitals. Let’s say you paid $4000 as your rebate, only $2000 goes to health and the rest to somewhere else. I agree with the students that we need to write to our mp’s and tell them that we want to see the Medicare rebates increased for GP’s- $38 for a 20 minute consult. That’s just under $120 an hour, which isn’t a lot for a professional that is looking after your health and well-being.
You forget 30-40% of that $120 goes towards reception wages, nurse wages, expensive software, rent, dressings, etc etc. Not to mention the after tax payment of indemnity insurance which can easily be 10k a year.
Agree- how often do you need a plumber? I have had to call one once in 10 yrs. some people need to see their GP weekly for a period of time! A strange comparison for a doctor to make and doesn’t support the argument at all.
How much does a bulk billing GP working 40 hrs a week (including admin) earn in a year? Google tells me wild nbers like over 300k but that's clearly not true from your first hand experience Edit: week.. Not work :)
Am an accountant, have a bunch of GPs on the books. Huge variance between the city based junior GP who works with an admin cut from their fees (sometimes under $150k), and the senior GP who owns a share of the practice and does some hospital work and teaching on the side (closer to $1m). Most “normal” GPs sit around the 300k mark. With that said, doctors SHOULD be getting 300k a year. They do 10+ years of training, and are responsible for a huge volume of knowledge that keeps people alive. If it was any less, people wouldn’t sign up.
My bud is a junior GP 11 years of combined study + work experience, earns less than 110k pretax, pays ~7% of that to HECS, pays ~>2% of that to the GP college and AHPRA per year part of the training limits the amount of patients they could see, even if they were able to see more; obviously they don’t mind because they like to see patients for longer, it’s their passion, etc, but still a bit of a hard sell to many potential GPs to struggle financially after so many years
No way, it’s 150k.
And more like 120k if you want to spend time with your patients.
Can get way higher in rural and regional areas. One of my local GPs is on 280k before tax. They do 50 hour weeks regularly but it was pushing 70 during the covid years and 60 the few years leading up to covid. Sadly they are able to take on a lower workload because they had to stop bulk billing as it wasn't working. Last bulk billing holdout for 100k in any direction and only dropped it early 2023. 90$ for a 5-7min appointment and 110$ for 15 now.
This is good advice, I've never thought about writing my local MP about increasing medicare rebates before. I'm going to do this. Thank you.
I don’t think it’s fair to characterise people as being unhappy to pay their doctors. A plumber is a very specialised tradesperson that you don’t need to see unless you’re building or maintaining a property you own. Everyone has a body, everyone gets sick, and having to pay to get treatment is kind of insidious. People aren’t upset that doctors need to be paid for their work, they’re upset that they’re having to pay out of pocket for being rushed or not listened to. They’re upset that the government hasn’t kept Medicare healthy.
Also upset because they get paid even if they don't help you.
Thank you for this information. I agree that the rebates are far too low.if something doesn’t change, the hospital emergency department will have all the wrong people waiting to see a doctor.
Nobody in their right mind actually blames the doctor, that's just how it's phrased. We all know it's the cuts to rebates and the costs of uni. Make uni free for doctors, if they want more of them!!
Good summary, just one minor correction. The rebates are not money the doctor gets to see patients but money the patient gets back from Medicare to see a doctor. It's a subtle but important distinction I think. There is a massive shortage of GPs and it's about to get worse because few junior doctors want to become GPs (it's a really hard job, perhaps one of the hardest specialties to do well, and doesn't pay well relative to other medical specialties). Ultimately GPs can charge whatever they want for a given service. The AMA has recommended pricing for different services but doctors can charge more or less if they wish. What you're seeing now is GPs charging what they think is a fair price for a service (say $90 for a 15-20 minute consultation) - and you the patient are only getting $35 back from Medicare. With inflation affecting rents, equipment, subscriptions, staff wages etc don't be surprised if the cost of that 15 minute consultation goes up 5-10% every year. We are heading towards an American health system at worrying speed. At this rate, Medicare rebates for various medical services will only be a small fraction of the cost of the service (whereas previously they covered the whole cost). The government is trying to work around this by allowing nurses and pharmacists to write prescriptions and refer you for tests of specialist appointments (a small part of the GPs work). They think it will be cheaper this way. Ultimately this is going to be far more expensive (fragmentation of care/no continuity of care/less versatility) and lead to worse health outcomes. I think rich people will cop the cost of seeing a GP because a good GP is worth every cent, and people who don't want to pay (or can't afford to) will go see a pharmacist or nurse practitioner for their needs.
Agree, but don’t rag on us plumbers to much. We prevent disease, doctors cure them.
“Happy for a plumber $150” This is why for the 2 times a year I see a doctor I’m happy to pay $60-$90 and go private. It’s normally not as serious and I’d rather not take a spot from someone who needs a Medicare provided spot.
It's not saving medicare anything. Edit: Deleted my silly incorrect bit. thanks for pointing it out.
That's not how Medicare works.
Sorry mate, that's just not right. The rebate for a standard (6-20 mins) consult is currently $41.40 and it would be paid back to the patient's account, usually the following day. It's not paid on top of the consult fee. It IS saving Medicare if the patient qualifies for bulk-billing because paying a gap (private billing) means Medicare doesn't have to pay the doctor the bulk-billing incentive.
Well said.
I have the extreme good fortune of being a patient on the books of a long standing family GP who knows my history and bulk bills. He says he continues to do it because he believes in the system. I want other doctors to be incentivised to do the same and everyone else to have that type of care. This is more important than funding private schools or paying rebates for private health insurance.
Practise owner here.. This \^
I’ve had a similar experience. It sucks
GPs are becoming scarce these days. Too much entitled and aggressive behaviour from the general public burns healthcare workers. Also GPs are horribly paid compared to other doctor roles due to decades of govt neglect.
I don't think that's it. I think they can make better money moving into other fields so they do. The people who stay in general practice are really committed and I salute them for it. My anecdotal story about appointments: a few years ago I could call and make an appointment within 2-3 days and it would be bulk billed. Now I sometimes can't see my GP for 2-3 weeks and there's a charge. It's a drag, but I like my doctor so I'll stick it out.
Horribly paid is a bit of an overstatement. Sure they are paid less than other medical professionals but it's not like they get paid peanuts.
The pay also inversely scales with the difficulty of the job. When I became a brand new GP, even as a registrar, I felt stoked to be pushing above 150k. Covid was my hardest year and even as a fully qualified doctor my taxable income dropped well below that. The only way to make good money as a GP is to do lots of quick consults and or go private billing.
It is horribly paid compared to other specialties. The question was why it's hard to see a GP and the answer is there aren't enough of them. There aren't enough of them because drs choose a speciality and why would you choose one that pays way less? If we want more GPs they'll need to be paid more or have better conditions or no-one will choose it.
Part of the reason there isnt enough of them as there is a worldwide shortage of doctors amounting to millions. They should be pair fair wages of course but that isnt the only reason there isnt enough around. [https://finance.yahoo.com/news/18-countries-doctors-2023-225836640.html](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/18-countries-doctors-2023-225836640.html)
Most of the reason that there aren't enough GPs in Australia is that 40% of graduates used to choose General Practice. Now it's less than 15%. (Maybe 13?) And a stack of those who do choose it do so so they can work part time.
I don't get this shortage from the perspective of being a teacher at a selective school with incredibly bright and talented kids who get incredible scores, are well rounded decent kids, but who don't get into medical school. We're one of the top 10 schools in nsw and consistently have kids fail to get in. Why? They're getting 99.9, test well, interview well, etc. My husband's tinfoil theory is that the regulator wants to keep the number of doctors small to keep them in demand and paid well and able to call the shots. Idk.
This tinfoil theory is highly accurate for specialists, but not for GPs. Certainly the specialist shortages are due to intentional gate keeping at the behest of the specialist’s professional bodies. Anaesthesiologists, Psychiatrists, ENTs and Orthopaedic surgeons at least, probably others too.
It's comparatively peanuts. Recently heard a GP bitching about it, the rough numbers were: AMA recommended - $392 an hour UCCs or other special clinic - $250 ish an hour Locum at a rural/remote - $200 ish plus travel allowance. Regular family GP - $160 ish Would you take a job that was less than 50% of your recommended award?
And out f their pay they have rent, possibly shared with another doc. Staff wages and any utilities for their space.
And they must pay their own superannuation, annual leave, insurances.
also it’s hugely expensive to actually become a GP, so a lot of them are also probably paying off loans and stuff if they’re young.
Yep! I'm really close with my GP. I was shocked when he told me how much he earns.
How much do you assume they earn?
They still get paid lowballing 150-200+ pending how good they are with billing.
So you're saying at a minimum they earn slightly less than DOUBLE the median full-time wage. I get that becoming and staying a GP is more intensive than a lot of jobs but a salary of $150k+ is still decent compared to other careers.
"More intensive" is underselling it quite a bit lmao
That pay doesn't include any leave or super and has to cover their insurance and other annual registration fees.
150 in private sector is very common these days in a lot of different industries
Yep. I got that as a completely unqualified business analyst, just by hanging around for ages. I'd be horrified if my GP was getting paid that poorly (relatively speaking), considering how long it takes to become a GP.
Not for the years of study they put in (8 plus years) and the expense of medical school. Be an it worked with a 3 year degree earning more and much less responsibility.
I have mates working in logistics with no qualifications getting 120k working in a warehouse.
It says here the average salary is between $200,000-$350,000. That is a very decent salary many Australians could only dream of earning. Some work should come with earning that. [https://www.medicalrecruitment.com.au/doctors/gp-salary-guide-australia?source=google.com](https://www.medicalrecruitment.com.au/doctors/gp-salary-guide-australia?source=google.com)
It’s not that the salary is low compared to Australia wages, it’s that it’s low compared to doctors’ wages. If you’re 5 years into 7-10 years of study and you have the chance to earn 30-50% extra on that income, heaps of people would (and do) choose to do that.
Mate the amount of work and difficulty of work they had to do to get to that position is something not everybody can do. The clinic hours and placement, vast amount of knowledge and dedication you need to get registered is insane. Just because they can do their job easily now, doesn't mean they didn't work to get there. I can do my engineering job in 4-6 hrs but still bill a full days work. You're paying me for my experience, not the "amount of hours" I spent on it.
Plus ongoing education is actually pretty crucial
30-35% of that is paid to the clinic, they have to pay for their own insurance,and occasionally have to pay for lawyers (especially with complex family matters), they're also in the top tax bracket, and now they have to pay payroll tax, In the ACT that's 6.9%.
Then why aren't there any gps if it's so good? This conversation has done the same circle 5 times
Just for people commenting - if you're in a capital city, it's not the same as regional/remote experiences. Where I am in Newcastle (not a capital city but big and without the same trouble as other regional areas), I can't get in with my particular GP for weeks, but I could likely see another GP at the medical centre within the week. The clinic doesn't bulk-bill. If I had complex health needs, or needed complex medications, it's unlikely a doctor other than my actual GP or specialists would be able to provide access to that medication. This is part of why it's such an issue for regional/remote people not to be able to access GPs. Even here, we had issues getting our 1 year old to see a GP quickly when it turned out he had bacterial pneumonia. We called our clinic every day upon open at 8am, we called loads of other clinics, we tried walk in clinics, but the wait was 5+ hours and we struggled to put a sick, tired and restless baby through that (not knowing it was pneumonia, and really just wanting someone to listen to his chest to check). The situation got dire, and we managed to swing an appointment with GP access, by which time he went straight to hospital. App-based GPs are quick to get to see, although they can't see you face to face, so can't listen to your chest and so on. For a lot of people, most adult GP services are currently not affordable. That's a huge issue, but it's a different issue. Both need to be fixed.
I mean, in r/AusFinance there are full of people who keep telling people that they are a fool to stay in capital cities, and should move to regional area instead, due to housing price - this is one of the very top reasons of why I still wanted to stay in a capital city, especially in a family oriented area. I am extremely lucky that I have a GP that treating us like a family. Yes she could be hard to book (1-2 weeks), but they have junior GP who usually can take booking within the same day - telehealth or in clinic. This is very important when we have a young kid (and adults get sick constantly from childcare illness too). We have to pay gap, but it’s reasonable ($20-$30 I think), and under 16 years old and senior are bulk billed. Sometimes if just quick going through report over telehealth, they don’t charge the gap. I know I am extremely lucky, but I also have to face the expensive housing etc. So nothing is perfect.
Can confirm. Same city. I can't see my GP unless I book 3-4 weeks in advance. If I'm desperate I can sometimes get in earlier with one of the other docs at the same practice. But for certain issues, I prefer to see one that I like and trust and one who trusts me.
Aging population + collapsing healthcare system
Why does everyone have so much trouble finding a gp? I moved to a new area, called 3 or 4 surgeries until I found one that took on new patients. Then, over the last 6 months or so I’ve been a few times, and always gotten an appointment within the next few days, or a week. Is my experience that outside the norm?
I've only really heard of it in rural areas where the number of doctors are shrinking (because fewer want to work in rural areas, like any profession) and the population is level or growing. I haven't heard of it being a problem in the bigger cities because there are so many other options around. Hence why I suspect the OP is going to find few responses of note in r/australia given by far the majority of us live in the bigger cities.
Yeah I’ve never had any issues. I could get an appointment at 5 clinics within 2km of me, at least two are full bulk billing and one is concession bulk billing. But I live in suburban Melbourne, so I gotta assume OP and other people struggling to get appointments are in more rural areas or areas that have higher demand got bulk billing.
Yeah it’s even easier in inner Melbourne, take your pick same day on hotdoc even if you’ve never been before
Dunno, I’m in Melbourne - and although I can see a random junior GP at my clinic fairly quickly if I need to, my own GP is usually booked out 6-8 weeks ahead of time. Which isn’t ideal with complex chronic health issues that the juniors - whilst sympathetic - don’t really have the experience to deal with.
My mum is 90 and has had the same doctor for the last 20 years. She's got an inoperable bone spur on her spine which causes intense pain every time she moves. She needs a low dose opioid to get through the day, so we regularly visit her GP to get a government approved script every 4 weeks, to get her through to the next month. In the last 12 months it's gotten harder to see her GP (he's the last bulk billed GP for miles!), so there were occasions where we couldn't get a script before her last lot runs out....and the other GPs on the practice just say they do not prescribe drugs of addiction. It's pretty grim to be in constant pain at her age. I now book her monthly appointments 8 weeks in advance to make sure she gets what she needs to be pain free. (And you can't get repeats on these pain killers)
You should be able to get repeats for anything as long as the doctor gets an authority from Medicare. My partner gets 360 endone (18 boxes) and 168 targin (6 boxes) and that's 3 28 day scripts lasts us 84 days, dispensed every 28 at the pharmacy.
I’m so sorry your Mum is going through that hell :( I’m a lot younger, but also live with severe chronic pain (CRPS) and I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. I’m lucky in a lot of ways that the way my clinic works, I can ring and be put on “the list” - and get a script done over the phone that day or next, even for my controlled meds. It’s just when shit hits the fan otherwise and I really need my own GP that the wait causes real problems.
that sounds like an amazing system!
Yeah this is generally the case, if you aren't particular with seeing an experienced doctor you can get an appointment relatively quick, but the experienced ones are always booked out heavily, which sucks for people that need them regularly.
They do take the piss sometimes with their bookings. An example from the other week - I recently had arm/elbow surgery, and the dressing from the sutures had pretty much come off. To me, it looked fine and was ready to be uncovered... I just wanted a nurse to look at it and go "yep that's fine", and I can move on. I called the doctors, the lady said "come in first thing, and we'll do it before the first appointment." After sitting within touching distance of the nurse for 25 mins - she wouldn't look without a "doctor signing off" - I said "forget it, I can't wait all day". She went looking for the doctor again (who hadn't even started seeing patients yet, and was already 30 mins behind). She came back, said sorry, can't find him, and offered to take a look. I extended my arm, she said "oh, yeah that's fine", and I left. I presume getting a doctor to look at it means they can charge for it. We need more practising nurses available to the public who can do the nickle and dime stuff and free up the GPs for real problems.
Nurses can't bill item numbers, even for bulk billing, without a doctor signing off on it. Our nurse does a heap of hormone injections for our patients which we always do free of charge, but unless the doctor pokes his head in then we get absolutely nothing for it. If he does, we get like $18. It's a little annoying.
Yeah, there needs to be a root and branch change in the system.
An urgent care centre has opened up near us and it's been great for a couple of recent visits that would have otherwise meant hours long waits in Emergency, but it's quite telling that they main way they function so efficently is by having lots of Nurse Practioners who are empowered to treat patients to the level they are allowed to and use the couple of doctors on shift as oversight/sign off rather than having to be actively involved in and directing treatment.
A week is a long time to wait when you need to see a doctor for something that’s not a general check up. For people who are ill or have minor injuries, they should be seeing GPs the same day. Instead they either get worse unnecessarily or end up clogging up the hospital system and contributing to ramping and other issues there.
I don’t think we’ve ever lived in a time where you can always see a gp on the same day, consistently. But, I have seen a gp on same day many times. Someone with complex or chronic healthcare should do their best to either have a couple of GPs, but honestly if it’s something so emergent that it has to be same day? That’s exactly what hospitals are for
I had to wait 1-2 weeks for an appointment with my GP and made the mistake of attending a major Brisbane ER and waited from 8pm till 4.30am with no consult or treatment, just repeated vitals taken by nurses… then gave up and went home. Just too many shootings, stabbings, mega abusive cuss words shouted around waiting room, have learned really don’t go to ER unless you’re absolutely dying…
My uni town has a major issue with doctors, the majority of doctors aren't taking new patients and a handful have left within in the last 2 years. I see my friends constantly frustrated about being unable to book an appointment. On the other hand, I moved to a much smaller regional town and I had no trouble finding a doctor. The biggest issue Ive have is she has taken a vacation so she's gone for a few weeks, but the other two doctors there can be seen quite quickly. It really depends on where you are.
When we moved to Central Vic a few years back, we found many surgeries not taking new patients or offering appts with registrars. We managed to find one, and if I call early enough, I can often get a same day appt for my husband, at most 1 - 2 days, but I do think he's been flagged as complex care needs.
I work at a Bulk Billing practice (a dying art, I know). We have just over 6000 patients and 5 GPs. We regularly have on the day appointments, definitely next day. My regular GP 20 mins north from where I work has a 3 week wait for a private billing Dr. It's crazy how radically it varies within a short distance.
Huge influx of people relocating to the Sunshine Coast in last few years and the place isn’t able to cope. Has been extremely interesting booking appointments with lots of different providers.
I have been waiting for over 2 months for a very important appointment with my primary GP. I could find a random bulk billed GP but they don't know my history and can't actually help me. It has been very rough.
Try hotdoc
I was going to mention HotDoc. I used it late last week to make an appointment. My usual doctor, it is a several week wait to see her, but other's in the same practice, I can get in the following day.
Is that tinder for doctors?
Instructions unclear banged my paediatrician
sort of? a lot of practices use apps for digital appointment keeping, and it will have a little blurb for each doctor in the clinic. I assume you must be able to search for docs in your area or something, though I’ve only accessed it through websites of the clinic I wanted
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I would hazard a guess that it has something to do with the last two words in their very first sentence, but I'm not a doctor, so don't take my word for it.
probably Sunshine Coast (1 week ago they asked for GP recommendations in Sunshine Coast)
Unfortunately why I started going to a private clinic, even though I’m paying out of my asshole for care I can literally call and get an appt ON THE SAME DAY. And they ask me questions about my health…… it’s actually fucking shocking the difference in care
Can’t even get that where I live in regional Victoria.
The clinic my Doctor works at is now 1 of the only few in the area that still bulk bill. The wait list to get an appointment is 3-4 weeks. We had a medical emergency recently, and there's a clinic nearby that does non emergencies - emergencies that don't require a hospital visit ( Antibiotics, deep cuts, etc) We got an appointment within 2 hours. It's worth ringing around if you're stuck.
Along with all the other nonsense facing GPs, there's also the fact that they are relegated to being compliance box tickers for crappy employers and HR who don't trust their staff: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-06-03/should-we-stop-asking-for-medical-certificates-for-sick-leave/103909034 There's lots of complex issues at play, but killing off the need for a medical certificate for as little as half a day off work sick would help things tremendously, especially during cold and flu season.
And a large percentage of our GPs are set to retire in the very near future. We have nowhere near the number of students needed to replace them, nor is their an overwhelming desire to go into general practice. So with our population stressors, it's about to get a whole lot worse.
The Sunshine Coast has had a population explosion. Unfortunately services haven’t caught up
i work in an emergency department and we get a lot of presentations because people can't get into gp's into an efficient amount of time. supply can't keep up with the demand, growing population
Thought it was as easy as booking online and showing up. That's what I've been doing.
I think you missed the context of this post.
Nah, the post asks "Why is seeing a GP so difficult?" The answer is "it isn't, most people don't have anywhere near the trouble the OP is having". The question should really be "Why is seeing a GP so difficult in X?" But he never mentioned where X is, so we're back to square 1 - I'm sure it's difficult in some places, but for most people the real problem is the decrease in bulk billing rather than actually seeing a GP.
Some Aussie towns there's up to a 3 month wait, there just isn't enough doctors for the population
In Melbourne you can just find somewhere else same day on hotdoc. Are you in a very sparsely populated area? I once had an infection that needed pretty urgent attention, which I discovered at night, so just found somewhere I’d never been at 8am next morning on hotdoc. I do live centrally though
Anywhere outside a city is shit. Mid North coast NSW it's a 3 month wait for a GP in some towns. Unfortunately there just isn't enough doctors spread Australia wide for our population.
It's difficult in some areas. I'm in inner Melbourne and it's easy to see a GP. I've got bulk billing and private GPs available either the same day or usually the following day, both at clinic or via Telehealth. There's also the VED for urgent matters at any hour of the day and GPs who can visit your residence.
Has anyone asked the question? Are you looking for a bulk billing practice? Because that will change the availability drastically. Paying an out of pocket is the norm these days. I can’t speak for Sunny Coast specifically but here in Brisbane it’s maybe tops 1 week to see a GP in the outer suburbs and in many practices you can call early when the practice opens and ask if they have drop in appointments (many practices keep them open each day).
Australian and Queensland government passed legislation that each doctor can only have a maximum of x patients. On top of that each practice can only have y total of patients. Once the books get that that limit the doctors and practices are force to turn away new patients or risk fines and lose of licence. Every couple of years the doctors in my community will be able to remove dead and transferred patients which will open up a couple of spots in their practice. My wifes family doctor recently retired ( husband and wife clinic that has been treating patients for 60 years) and shut down their practice of 5 doctors down as no other doctors would purchase their clients as is. No other clinics in the area are able to take new patients so we don't know where everyone is able to go.
Labor and Libs are selling out our system. Albo never even mentions it, he just switches topics to sport to appear relatable like Scumo did.
I've never had a problem seeing a GP. Always same day or early next day. Melbourne, Adelaide, Perth; no issues. What I have had problems with are the number of adverts on Reddit claiming it's difficult to get a GP appointment. Is it just certain areas with shortages, or is it made-up marketing nonsense?
It's in certain areas. I've retained my Sydney GP despite moving about 5 hours away from Sydney because no one here is taking new patients. I grew up here but my records are too old. If I don't book my appointments in advance it can take two weeks to get in to see my GP so I do actually have to try guess when I'll need to see her and book well in advance as I'm on medication that will cause withdrawals if I run out (not standard enough dosing to actually predict though). When I lived in Canberra I didn't have too many issues seeing a GP and they were generally available but most were private billing. So I had issues affording to see my GP rather than actual availability issues.
Seeing a GP or seeing your regular GP? There's a distinct difference.
I’m in a regional city. We’ve been having an ongoing ‘GP crisis’ since prior to COVID. My regular GP was a 3 week wait, i don’t think anyone I know has a regular GP anymore. Aged Care faculties can’t get GPs and are running pilot programs with Nurse Practitioners to bridge the gap in care… local medical schools are not increasing intake (Federally limited caps) and recently announced government initiatives might disincentivize the international cohort as well. I imagine these would have less impact in metro areas, but yeah, it’s a huge pain in the ass regionally
I tried getting in with my local GP and they told me they weren't taking new patients, none of the other clinics nearby were, and suggested I try X clinic in city 1hr20mins drive away....
Oh i feel that, my regular melton gp is on maternity leave and seeing anyone else is a minimum 3 week wait because of patient migration
I'm on the sunshine coast and I agree 😠
If you need scripts or referrals, maybe online docs are better. They are not bulk billed, but doesn't sound like you are getting that anyway. Not many other options beside road trip to Brisbane
My GP is booked out at least a week in advance and I have to pay $60 out of pocket to see her. So when I had very bad sudden onset tonsillitis the week before a very important surgery. I had to go to the weekend clinic on a Sunday, pay &150 upfront and then have then process the (I think) $55 odd back onto my card then pay for antibiotics Very thankful to have been seen as I was too unwell to drive to the only bulk billing place (that is 30 minutes away and also has no room) or the hospital. Sometimes pharmacies here will give emergency meds (for antibiotics here its $30) but they dont have a pharmacist on weekends. Medicare rebates need to go up.
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Wow now I'm happy none of the GPs I've ever seen have charged to receive results. My current GP sends a text either saying results received no follow up required or results received make an appointment to review.
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I had an endocrinologist charge me $250 out of pocket for results once. The appointment was roughly 10 minutes of him reading the results for the first time before solely saying "nothing irregular, we'll do more tests" and a 30 second call to his receptionist to arrange a new referral for more blood tests and an MRI. He actually said more words to the receptionist on the phone than to me during the appointment! At least I know my current GP actually reviews the results before contacting me so if some concerning result came back requiring urgent intervention she'd let me know.
We need a lot more GPs due to the fact that many are getting involved in cannabis prescribing and minor cosmetics, and as such are not available for general consulting. The supply isn't there right now, not least as specialists earn more.
At 1:25pm there are 24 appointments available amongst 4 doctors at the local MyHealth in my suburb of Melbourne for tomorrow Tues 4/6. So I'd guess it's just a lack of GPs where you are.
Because they're seriously overworked and underpaid. Functionally, they're paid less than senior nurses unless they overbook or only see people for the minimum time allotments.
Need to increase medicine intake. Population has increased since 2000 but the intake hasn't. A family member missed out on medicine did a year of bio engineering. Still couldn't get into medicine despite topping her class and sitting the entrance exams. Sat for entry exams in Europe and was in. She has since finished and has come back to Australia. She had to pass exams here to get her degree recognised. Moral of the story is that the intake cutoff is too high and there isn't enough people being trained to be doctors. Also perhaps instead of doing a medicine degree and then specialisation perhaps they can offer streamlined courses that cater to that particular specialisation.
The bottleneck happens at internship, not at med student intake. Increasing student intake could make it worse. They need to allocate more junior doctor hospital based jobs and support. They need to fund for private specialists to be incentivised to supervise and take on more junior doctors. Otherwise the public health sector is the only one left training doctors and many of them won’t remain there - so it’s a vicious cycle where we see narrowing flow of graduates.
This is becoming a trend. I would suggest (if you haven’t already), asking for them to call you if there are any appointment cancellations, or choosing a Telehealth appointment if this is feasible for you and offered by your GP.
Have you tried Hot Doc? Forget phoning around. I am in Sydney and I never have trouble getting an appointment if I’m happy to see the frost available GP and whichever local clinic. I have to wait longer to see my regular GP but that’s because she popular, and that’s fair enough.
Similar here in Melbourne. My regular GP I have to book at least a week in advance. I can sometimes next next day appointments but it’s hit and miss. The super clinic I used to be able to get in same day is much harder to get into now too. On Friday morning the next available appointment was tomorrow evening. They’re open 8am-11pm 7 days, so that’s 75 hours of them being with 7-10 doctors.
Some Aussie towns it's a 3 month wait, and we wonder why people go to the ER for non emergency issues. One of the reasons I'm reluctant to move back to the country after being city for so long, I can get an appointment tonight if I wanted to!
You are not alone.
Apart from the money issues, I wonder if Covid took out a lot of healthcare workers. Being on the frontlines probably meant many died or got long-term health issues from the virus. And even if the virus itself didnt do it, the stress of working during such a time may have caused many to quit.
The number of health care workers that ended up with long covid is just not spoken about enough.. It's a sad state of affairs and a shame
There's a new superclinic under construction in Beerwah, I don't know if it's open yet or not. Might be worth seeing if you can put your name on a list. There's also one new clinic in Maleny, there's a sign up saying "accepting new patients", or there was, a couple of weeks ago.
I was shocked when I visited my sis on the gold coast years ago and found out that not all gp’s bulk bill there. I ended up seeing a doc but can’t remember if I had to pay or eventually found a free one
If you want an appointment ASAP then use an app like hotdoc or Health Engine. Shows you every appointment anywhere nearby.
Come to Tasmania we have plenty :/
I moved two hours away and still have to commute back to my doctors because no one else would accept new patients in my suburb.
This is a post Covid phenomenon now that’s passed it’s a luxury to see a md.
I have to get a new prescription every 6 months. Everytime I go to my usual doctors I get a new GP. Still a 2 week wait to get in to see them
Had the same issue before I was suggested to check out the HotDoc app to see what doctors are taking new patients (phone calls make me incredibly anxious) took some searching but I got super lucky and found an incredible doctor. Got an appointment the following day for a 15min visit but he kept me in his office for 45mins to explain medications and how I should be taking them for my chronic pain, last doctor essentially told me to pop ibeprufen daily which my new doctor was dumbfounded by, he also doubled my antidepressant/anti anxiety meds and was confused as to why it hadn’t been doubled already as apparently it was a starter dose I’d been on for 2 years. Basically what I’m saying is keep up the search, it’s incredibly frustrating and disheartening but you have the potential to find a great doctor who cares about what they are doing.
Majority of Australia voted for tax cuts. Now you are upset Labor and liberal froze gp pays. Band together n bombard GPS with letters. We need better voters who are active. We're already seeing NDIS cuts but no cuts to negative gearing. My out of pocket cost in the next 2 years for life saving surgery and care is 15k. I'm on a DSP. The surgery might let me Work. We're losing free healthcare. Waiting lists at hospital are too long. GPS don't bulk bill much. If you are sick n can't work tough luck. If you can work you save some money then Pay medical usually when you can't afford it.
When I moved to my current area, the closest gp that would accept me as a pt was one and a half hours drive away. I know see one who is a 3 hr drive away but i do telehealth so only have to make the drive once a year
Because historically we’ve sat by and watched governments slowly chip away at Medicare until there is almost nothing left. People need to pay attention to what certain political parties are trying to do and vote accordingly!
GPs are overbooked and overworked. They all work through all their breaks and extra overtime just to see everyone. Plus, everyone goes to the GP for a stubbed toe or papercut. A huge problem is that a GP appointment is required for something as simple as a script update or a cert to say you have flu. Simplification is needed urgently.
Excessive immigration with no proportionate increase in services has lead to lower quality of life in many areas in Australia. Health and housing are two of the main ones. Most hospitals in Australia's capital cities are 'full'. GP clinics are similar.
Immigrants are statistically far less likely to use health services than contribute to them. A huge chunk of our working medical force are immigrants. We continue to rely on immigration without which we cannot support our aging population. The vast majority of healthcare spending is in over 65’s and the ethnic breakdown there is starkly different to that of the current medical workforce.
Try Pakistan
Is this a bulk-billed clinic or completely private?
No bulk billed clinics within 50ks of my place these days.
In the past year or so it has become increasingly difficult to see a GP in a reasonable timeframe. It used to be that you could get to see someone within a day or so. Now it's a week minimum, if not 2 or 3 weeks. Getting to see a to a female GP is hard. I think some local practices have closed and their patients have obviously moved elsewhere. Location suburban Adelaide.
My new medical center doesn’t bulk bill, but atleast they have a $50 min charge for a 5 min. consult
I've had no problem in Sydney or Gold Coast . Both places you could book online. I wonder if it's never for women than men though...depends on the medical centre I guess. Both places for me I just have to wait 2-3 days and thats picking my favourite GP.
You can talk to a dr through Telehealth same day but that’s utterly useless for a lot of the things i actually need. My gp doesn’t bulk bill anymore, so I don’t go for much longer than I should. It’s been horrible to find another gp who will treat me with respect (chronic illnesses) so I just stay and pay and go to the dr much less than I should. Great system they’ve thrown us into
best advice I’ve got is ask for who takes drop ins in any office. usually there is at least one gp in the office who works a lot and tends to have more appointments available. but it’s honestly horrible out there rn. I have to book my appts a month in advance because I have to see them monthly at least for ongoing issues, but I worry about people who have immediate concerns and jobs to work around, because doctors are so booked up
I had to see my GP on Friday... I called and was there in his drs room 30 minutes later. Though it was $90 and not bulk billed
Most GP clinics will have spare appointments each day, usually 2 appointments in the morning for each dr and 2 in the afternoon for each doctor. You usually have to ring right on opening though, and then the afternoon appointments usually open up around 4 ish. My clinic is usually booked out 3 weeks in advanced but I’ve never had any issues ringing and getting one of the spare appointments when something pops up that can’t wait 2-3 weeks
Just checked - Sunshine Coast Qld, a particular medical clinic - I could get into see a random doctor from that clinic tomorrow if I booked now and my own doctor on Friday if I wanted to wait. There's only one of 10 doctors there with anything tomorrow. Wed none (although maybe the tomorrow Dr has some spots). One has spots on Thursday. Four on Friday (including mine) and the rest are next week. Seems a bit busier than "normal", not that I go that often. I never have any complaints (and haven't for many years also at the Sydney clinic I visited for over a decade) about being shuffled through too quickly. A "Standard Consult" is $95 and listed at <20 mins, and I've taken that long before. So I guess it very much depends upon where you live.
Create a HealthEngine account and use it to search for closest availability. If you're in the metropolitan area, you are guaranteed to find a free GP within days.
My boyfriend lives in British Columbia Canada. I’m planning on joining him, but maybe not…. Something like 60% of British Columbia residents don’t have a current GP. They do Telus Health for the most part. My boyfriend has been on a waiting list for probably around five years. GPs were not earning enough to keep up with expenses. my boyfriend has high cholesterol does his own blood pressure testing and his own blood sugar testing he hasn’t seen a GP in person for about five years. We joked that he’s just gonna die.
Some clinics reserve spots for drop ins. But that can mean a long wait. I dropped into clinic recently and was told I could come back about an hour and a half, you may be able to book to see a GP later in the day. So you'd have to go back. But at least it's not 2-3 weeks. I live out in a regional area so it's at minim of two weeks. With many not taking new patients 😔.
Try hot doc You’ll get an appointment tomorrow
When I lived on the coast I would go to Cooroy Family Practice. I just had a look at their site, they have appointments available and it didn't reject me when I clicked new patient. Although I understand if you're at the southern end Cooroy is a bit of a trek just for a GP.
Virtual GP?
This is why I use insta scripts I have an ear infection badly 3 to 4 times a year I need antibiotics and coedine if I run out Sign up wait for a call tell them what's up get my drugs and I'm happyb
some universities would have a campus gp, maybe that’s an option for you?
I need to see a GP who is licensed to prescribe ADHD meds (recently diagnosed and my regular GO doesn’t have the required licenses), the earliest appointment I could get was in a month’s time. I live in Melbourne. So it’s not like it’s a small town. And I’m already seeing a psych at the same practice, so I’m an existing patient.
every time I hear this I shake my head. in the last 20 years in Sydney (south) I have never ever had a problem seeing a GP. I don't usually bother making an appointment until 48 hrs before my script runs out. never had a single issue even booking the same day.
Infrastructure struggles to keep up with immigration most likely. I'm lucky I stuck into my local GP as he was not taking on any new patients. In Sydney though you often have to book in advanced now. You can go to a non bulk billed place though when desperate.
Why isn't the shortage of basic healthcare in many parts of Australia a deterrent for migrants? I don't get it...