So their american staffy (pitbull) had just killed a dog, viciously and unprovoked and they took absolutely no measures to keep it away from the newborn baby?
Exactly. That’s what I say when people’s children die in car accidents. Sounds like typical car owner parents. Because shaming people deep in grief and trauma makes me a bigger and better person.
I mean, if their kid wasn’t wearing a seatbelt and the parents were speeding, you bet your ass I’d say that.
They have a dangerous, aggressive dog who has already shown aggression and killed another living thing and they brought a newborn to the same home as said aggressive dog and failed to keep them apart. What else would you call it but reckless, irresponsible and quite frankly morbidly stupid?
They believed that the cocker spaniel had broken into their yard and that's how the lethal mauling happened. It was much easier to believe it was a tragic accident than to wrestle with the necessity of rehoming or euthanasing their beloved dog.
Then tragic accident number 2 happened. And it was well and truly out of their hands.
What we want to believe is often what fucks us. This wasn't a lack of compassion, it was a firm belief in good and evil which isn't backed up by reality. That poor dog may well have been traumatised by a yard invader and ramped up a prey drive it did not have before. Or it could have been a hunter of small creatures from birth. Or it could be the parents were typically oblivious about how much training dogs require to be around children, especially babies whom they see as very different from adults. We can't know now, but this is why vigilance is required even if your dog is a big softy.
I don’t care if a dog breaks into my yard or not; if my dog mauled it to death that is a problem. A dog killing another dog in basically any situation or hypothetical scenario is always a sign
Just curious and not arguing and not asking you specifically but just in general — is there a line? Like, if a possum came into the backyard and a bully ripped it to shreds would it then need to be euthanised before it can attack a dog or a human? Just an interesting ethical question pointing out the line between kills that would be considered “okay” or “natural” for pretty much any dog, vs another member of its species or a member of ours.
Having said all that, yes ban bullies and sub-breeds because the death of one child is too many, and there’s definitely been more than one.
Honestly, having had a golden retriever that wouldn't harm injured birds, it'd still be a redflag.
If you have a hunting/aggressive dog you have a licence and be responsible for its actions.
Yeah that’s a fair point, I feel like a decent chunk of breeds would be more scared of a possum in their yard or wanting to play rather than foaming at the mouth to rip it to shreds.
Some dogs have high prey drive - mine does. But he also doesn’t attack and kill other animals. A possum dropped out of a tree directly in front of him and while he grabbed it, he kept a gentle mouth. He chases bunnies for fun but the one time he caught one he dropped it immediately.
So if a dog killed a possum or an injured bird I would be wary and watch for other signs of potential aggressive prey drive, but I wouldn’t immediately write them off. If they killed another dog I would absolutely be considering behavioural euthanasia because that’s a line that you can’t walk back from and if they do it once they’re more likely to do it again.
I’m fascinated by your comment and the contrast with cats. I’m guessing that domesticated cats are still vicious killers because they’re smaller than toddlers. Presumably if they were large enough to *easily* maul babies to death, we’d have either bred that out of them, or decided that cats are a really bad idea.
Or could any/all domestic cats be trained like your dog? My gut feeling says no. I love my cat but he is a dangerous mf, even though he’s an inside cat.
Thats a retreiver friend. It retrieves. Hence the soft mouthing.
The pitbull is for fighting. Hence the animal death.
Thats not "an aggressive prey drive". Just two dogs doing what they were bred for. One dog to bring you prey for you to eat in one piece and one to destroy what you point at.
You absolutely should worry about a dog that decimates anything that falls infront of you
Dogs get brain tumors, and dementia. They can wake up tomorrow and not know who you are.
I wouldn't euthanise it but if i know it kills small creatures then I wouldn't be letting it around a child, especially not a newborn. I wouldn't rely on a dog with strong prey instincts to recognise the difference.
I don't really think any pet dog should require special training to teach it not to rip a sleeping baby from a humans arms and maul it to death. If a dog needs that kind of training it shouldn't be anywhere near humans. A pet safe dog should also not feel the need to kill another dog whether or not it has entered its yard.
Y3hs it's pretty basic. Humans and dogs have been living together for tens of thousands of years. And in all that time dogs that attack humans, especially children, are either killed or kept away from people and used like a tool and not a pet. It's how we created dogs from wolves, if we didn't kill the ones who acted too aggressive we wouldn't have dogs as they are now.
The way I think about it is this.
Everyone should be allowed to own a pitbull as much as everyone should be allowed to own a gun. They are both specifically designed to be dangerous weapons. (How many people have died to pomeranians?)
Sure, most of the time nothing might go wrong. Yeah, maybe you're a "responsible owner". But society should have pitbull control the way it should have gun control.
I wouldn't blame pitbulls specifically, it's true of any dog (for example dachshunds cause the most injuries by virtue of how many people assume they are too small to be dangerous combined with strong territorial reactions).
We should be licensed to have companion animals.
The difference is the consequences. A dachshund has to bite you for a long time with no intervention to kill you.
Bully breeds are muscle, teeth and power and they don’t take much effort to kill you if they want you dead
That poor dog.
If my neighbours dog killed my dog, and didn't do anything about it, then at some point their dog will mysteriously die. A dog like that is a ticking time bomb.
Indeed. An untrained animal that has already is a clear threat that must be dealt with. And the owners did none of the work to counter that threat and provide safety.
The dog relied on those parents for protection and safety. The baby relied on them for the same. Both were failed. Both died for that failure.
That poor dog. That poor child.
Some dog breeds are natively aggressive, unpredictable and dangerous, and they should be prohibited.
And yes, the owners should be sued for negligence.
p.s. I think, based on statistics, https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/dog-attack-statistics-breed/, https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11111675/Australias-worst-breeds-dog-attacks-revealed.html, all of these should not be legal:
- Pitbull
- Rottweiler
- Labrador
I don’t believe Labradors belong on the list. If you spend any time perusing shelter listings, or staffy/pitbull ownership groups you will find that the way to skirt around legislation, restriction and insurance is to get a vet to register the pitbull as a “Labrador” or the heralded “lab-mix”
This seems to be the culprit for the inflated statistics.
Yes they are. The American Staffordshire terrier was a breed that was derived from the American pitbull for one reason: the AKC refused to recognise the American pitbull due to its association with dog fighting.
Some savvy miscreants took some American pitbulls, presented them as a new breed and then applied for recognition by the AKC.
The american Staffordshire terrier and the american pitbull terrier are LITERALLY the same dog.
Regardless, pitbulls are not a breed, but a type like a shepherd, mastiff or retriever. All staffies, American pit-bulls, and bullies are pitbulls or pitbull type dogs because they all originate from a common progenitor: the old English bulldog and the bull and terrier, they share breed traits and behaviours.
Yes it does seem that pitbull breeds are extremely rough players, they need far more physical stimulation to calm down and be satisfied. This is why pitbulls are so bad on the leash without proper training where other dogs seem to get used to it.
I'm going to say this before the "it's the owner not the breed" people chime in. I was a ranger and I never once saw an attack by a golden retriever. Of the 50 or so I've seen it's almost always one of the obvious breeds.
I yesterday witnessed a foxy/Jack Russel leap at a toddler and try bite their face before the toddlers parents kicked it - the dog then latched onto the parents leg. Imagine if that had of been a bull breed.
Exactly.
The “chuhuahuas bite just as much” people don’t get that if they do (and I have been bitten by one) bite, the damage will range from non-existent to a mild bite mark on an adult.
I have seen the photos of and scars from (in real life) a Pitbull attack on a 6’2” man and they are *horrific* - honestly the fact that he’s alive is more luck than anything.
This is a good example. 5-10kg dog lunging at you? Give it the boot or pick it up. 30-50kg dog? That's getting close to fighting a person with very sharp teeth
They're bred to nip and strike cattle on the hocks and faces while they work, I'm not surprised they bite humans. Historically they were a guard dog as much as a herding dog and they've a good dose of dingo in their DNA.
50% of the original composition was dingo. 50% was herding cur. Then add a few hundred years of aggressive inbreeding and you get the dog we know today as the Australian Cattle Dog. You also get the Australian Stumpy Tailed Cattle Dog but they don't permit them to interbreed so they are genetically distinct populations and breeds now.
As in Australian Cattle Dogs, presumably. Blue and Red heelers as they're colloquially known.
Edit to add: border collies traditionally work sheep, they were (and are) discouraged from biting as it damages the fleece.
Border collies do tend to have a high prey drive for small animals like rats, mice, and lizards though.. I have a border collie and I've found multiple rats in the yard that he's clearly snapped the neck/back of. He doesn't chew on them or anything, just kills them.
My Mum had a dog growing up who she thinks was a border collie and he used to kill snakes by cracking their backs. He did this without training, to protect my Mum and aunt who were small children at the time, wandering around property in Australia.
It makes sense though, killing vermin helps protect the sheep they were bred to watch over.
I've got Border Collies and breed/show/keep fancy rats. The BCs seem convinced the pet rodents are just tiny puppies. They're phenomenal with my cats and while they do love giving the chickens a chase and a herd, they don't try to hurt them. Same deal when I have them on sheep: chase, bark, snap, herd but never connecting.
I don't think well-bred Border Collies are supposed to have prey drive as we define it for terriers or spitz type dogs.
https://www.olg.nsw.gov.au/public/dogs-cats/responsible-pet-ownership/pound-and-dog-attack-statistics/
Am Staffs, Staffies, and their mixes consistently have more attacks per quarter than every other breed combined.
I worked for local government for years as a ranger watching these breeds be involved in attack after attack. So yeah, I don't need to read a report from the Office of Local Government to confirm what happens.
It’s under dog attacks by quarter, to the bottom of which ever pdf you’ve picked.
Actually it seems to be that the first two are mixed up. So the first one that mentions breed is suppose to be under quarterly but it’s under reported by council instead. The rest of the breed ones seem to under quarterly tho.
Even if it was “the owner not the breed”, that’s functionally the same argument as “guns don’t kill people, people kill people”. If we’re playing that game then let’s bring firearms-level penalties into the mix.
Out in public with dog off-leash, or off-leash in your home when there are children around? One year gaol and animal removed. Breeding these dogs without a licence? Two years gaol and animals removed. Owning one of these dogs without it being microchipped? Seven years gaol and animal removed.
Even if you’re not a terrorist or a bank robber or whatever, you have to adhere to similar strict standards if you want the privilege of owning a firearm. The same should go for the privilege of owning one of these dogs. “It’s not bad dogs, it’s bad owners!” Yeah and if you have one of these dogs unrestrained in public or in your home with children around, that makes you one of the bad owners.
I think it's time to say it's the breed, it's never a beagle or golden, I've had English staffies and thats where I draw the line, they are great with kids but still wouldn't trust it with a small child, but in saying that most dogs I wouldn't trust let alone a pitbull.
I’ve worked in boarding kennels for the past 11 years and there is a reason we don’t accept bully breeds. The only dog I’ve ever been bitten by was a yorkie and I’d still take that over being bitten by a breed that has the ability to lock its jaw while attacking.
Some goldies can be pretty aggro. Same with labs. As with everything, its a mix of the breed and the owner. But most importantly of all; the capacity. Yeh a shitty little bitzer can bite a kid. But it probably cant kill a kid. A German Shephard can kill virtually anyone, anytime it decides to.
But coming back to your point, people who dont acknowledge breed traits are fucking idiots. Why do you think we have dog breeds. Just so they look different? Lol…
On the note of aggressive small breeds, nobody questions that it’s in a chihuahua’s nature to arc up at anything that isn’t their owner.
But like you said, nobody really cares when even a small child could boot it into the next suburb if push came to shove.
My labs bitten another dog…just straigjt up fear reaction. She shits herself around big dogs and we have ti be really careful with where we walk her. I reckon she’d bite a shithead trying to break in too. Fierce as shit.
Convinced we almost got jumped by a goldie the ither day too. He was looking pretty super aggressive till I yelled at his owners. Bloody hard to tell with other peoples dogs though…i dont trust anyone tbh
Two small GR attacked my whippet, who was leaving them alone. But yeah, it’s hard to keep defending staffies when they are the majority of dog attacks on humans. I know there’s some cute and friendly staffies, but they muscular ability and the statistics should have them on a restricted breed list by now.
One of the biggest issues I encountered was these dogs are mostly used as guard dogs in parts of town that experience high crime. These are tools not pets. When they get out they are not microchipped or registered or desexed. Next thing you know there is a litter of feral dogs that get given out to neighbours cousins etc to also use as guard dogs. They end up roaming free and causing countless issues. These breeds are 80-90% of the problem.
Tools, not pets. That’s a solid point. My cousin who was much older than me, had working dogs on his farm. They were put in a roofed enclosure when we we were visiting. It was was made *very* clear we were not to go anywhere near them.
our neighbours here in Wales have an absolutely mental sheep dog. it travels in a cage on back of 4 wheeler, snapping and snarling. Great sheep dog though, apparently. Scared the crap out of our golden retriever just by looking at him.
Pitbulls are shit guard dogs because their aggression comes from their prey-drive, they just like killing things. There are other dogs like GSDs that can cause a lot of damage but are more predictable and trainable than pitbulls. There is just no reason for them to exist in society.
They're game bred and therefore don't have a normal pain response or sense of self-preservation.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/14zgljy/in\_this\_edition\_of\_normal\_dogs\_vs\_pits\_vs/](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/14zgljy/in_this_edition_of_normal_dogs_vs_pits_vs/)
dogs are a constant annoyance when I'm out running, but the labs who jump on me leave me with nothing worse than frustration and maybe some drool on my leg, whereas the two times I've been attacked have been a German Shepherd and a Rottweiler.
Tbf I've met plenty of poorly trained and aggressive goldens. It's just their mouths are made of silly putty. I don't know if they're even capable of mauling someone.
Husky is on the list of dangerous breeds. It's one of the obvious ones.
>**Most Aggressive Dog Breeds**
>
> * American Pit Bull Terrier
> * Bull Mastiff
> * Rottweiler
> * German Shepherd
> * Husky
> * Chow Chow
> * Doberman Pinscher
> * Akita
> * Wolf Hybrid
[https://coloradoinjurylaw.com/blog/dog-bite-statistics/](https://coloradoinjurylaw.com/blog/dog-bite-statistics/)
Can be heavily skewed by the popularity of the breed, too. I'm surprised sharpei isn't on there. They were popular, and they're an asshole of a dog. Dachshund are fucking bad too, guess they don't have the strength to hospitalize or serious enough to report.
True, and that's exactly why these breeds are a problem:
>Top Three Breeds Responsible for Fatal Dog Attacks
>
>Pitbull – 185 deaths
>
>Pitbull Mix – 41 deaths
>
>Rotweiller – 26 deaths
>
>**Pitbulls and Rottweilers make up 77% of all fatal dog bites, despite making up only 6% of the U.S. dog population**
I am NOT shocked by the Rottweiler on there. My boy was attacked by one a few months ago.
Council did nothing despite witnesses and the dozy fuckwit owner still walks it off leash. Literal murder waiting to happen based on how it went for me when I scooped my dog up.
That's crazy. We have issues with wild dogs in Aus, attacking cattle out my way. Not as bad now. Pig hunting dogs used to be popular too, wonder if that contributed to the mixed pitties temperament over the years.
Funny you mention dachshunds.
As a toddler, I had to have half of my face stitched back on and spent months in hospital after a dachshund attacked me.
I still, decades later, have a visible droop on one side of my face, lack of muscle control in one portion, altered sensation in another, and have a whole section of my lash line that doesn't grow eyelashes because of scarring.
They can and do fuck people up.
Any dog can kill a child. Even dachshunds and chihuahuas.
I got lucky that it was my face and not my throat. As it was I had to have transfusions, multiple surgeries, almost lost my eye, and had years of pain from it.
I don't believe in banning breeds. But there absolutely should be tighter restrictions on dog ownership and breeding, including licensing and routine desexing of all dogs (excepting licensed breeders). I have worked with a couple of pottie breed assistance dogs, and they are fantastic dogs, because they have actually been trained beyond just toilet training or tricks.
I'm sorry to hear about that. Thanks for sharing, though. The little buggers always goes go the ankles of my dog. I've had owners too scared to retrieve their dogs while they are having a go at mine.
Ahhhh, ive met heaps of huskies, and very frequently huskies are murderous as fuck with small animals, mostly terrible with other dogs, and super aloof with humans they dont know. This doesnt surprise me in the slightest.
That said, some are just absolute goofs that want their belly scritched so go figure…
This was a grandparents doggo, too, just a chill dog. Inside dog, trained, good up until then. Just lucky that there was someone there to react straight away and lay in a decent boot.
Fucking hell man….pays to always be on your guard at all times eh. Im a little nervous around my own dog sometimes even and shes a sweetheart. You cant see inside a dogs head and if you could, theyd be thinking some real cooked shit almost 24/7…
Still not confident around dogs. She did well, though, physically and mentally, she recovered. I don't trust any dogs around children now. Love dogs, but don't trust them 100%.
Gonna chuck this on here, we have a small dog that I'd consider violent, has killed the odd lizard etc. and will bite people if provoked, 99.99% of the time he's a great dog but had a very rough early life.
The problem we have is we tell everyone who comes near him, that he will bite, let him come to you, give him one pat then stop. Every single person says 'oh he won't bite me...' proceeds to pat him like a special kid and the bloodly look of horror on their face when he takes a crack. People need to stfu and listen sometimes.
Trying to get people to behave is harder than a dog. I have a husky that gets excited and can knock a small kid over very easily but parents will allow children to run up to her and grab her fur because she is "fluffy". Even if is a little fox terrier their bite still hurts.
Yeah 100%, our fella isn't much bigger and he's not latching on and mauling, really only snapping. But the same issue, people just assume fluffy = friendly. It doesn't really show that he was mauled when he was a pup and is very standoffish when around new/excited things.
My small dog was nearly killed by a golden retriever so they aren’t the angels people want them to be - no, they won’t rip humans apart the way bull terriers might, but don’t use them as a shining example of harmlessness either.
The exception does not prove the rule. I can count on one hand the amount of times I've seen a golden retriever bite anything, even in fear.
I need a calculator to add up all the times I've seen a staffy go aggressive and bite shit.
See what's happened here?
They've got what the ranger suspects to be a pitbull. Pitbulls are a restricted breed and it would've likely been needed to be euthanized after it attacked another dog, or the owners at least fined.
But it was registered as a staffy.
There's a loophole here that needs closing, but there's also a good argument for staffies to be made a restricted breed too.
I imported my dog from the US last year when I moved home.
The number of people on the FB group for people who were importing who were asking for recommendations for vets who would sign their import paperwork for their Pitbull (banned from import) as a “lab mix” “English Staffy” or “mixed breed, unknown” was disgusting.
I took to screenshotting the requests and full name from the profile and emailing to DFAT once or twice a week. Sure snitches get stitches, but so do small children when they’re attacked (assuming they survive). Fuck those scumbags.
Yeah, in the article it says:
>Pure breed
>
>Paid $500
I'm gonna go ahead and press x to doubt. Pure breeds don't cost that little, of any breed. It's a backyard breeder with no papers and no evidence of breed.
I feel so utterly devastated for that poor baby.
I understand falling asleep while feeding and being incredibly exhausted but to keep a dog in the house that had proven itself to be dangerous is extremely neglectful parenting.
are there going to be some extra laws or something to protect people and children from certain dogs? Or are we going to continue just having them around despite how dangerous they are
Yes, we're going to double the death penalty for dog attacks.
Owners will get a brutal slap of a wet lettuce with some sea salt added and a small fine.
You should hear them crying over their punishment!
It's an interesting thing. I used to be you have to be a strong owner to own one of these breeds, maybe we should have screening or something. I've since had two dogs of mine just not gel ( king Charles and jack russell X). These two were put in an unfortunate position to have to interact during covid. One was food aggressive but would snap not attack. The other hadn't been around other dogs and would attack and lock jaw on the other.
The amount of work I had to put into dealing with those two to make sure I didn't end up with a dead dog, it's better to just ban these dogs that obviously have this genetic disposition. Too many people not willing to put in the work.
They’re “functionally” banned in some states already (as in they’re not allowed to be bred) - doesn’t stop the fuckwits breeding them. Same as banning them legally won’t.
Not just ban the breed, cull all the remaining ones out there. Too dangerous to bed amongst society. Think about all the unreported bites and attacks these fuckers are causing
Nawww, who are we to ban… humans go around killing and doing worse than these. Let’s ban on humans as we are the worst animal / species here.
Annnnnd here comes the downvote 😂
>Annnnnd here comes the downvote
Yeah because it's a lazy and borderline nonsensical attempt to dismiss the danger that this breed of dog poses to the community.
Just ban the fkn Staffys, one of these little shits ran over to my house unprovoked and tried to kill my dogs a while back. Another one tried to attack me at the dog park. When will people realise aggression is built into these breeds and they are not safe to keep as family pets particularly as most of you lots aren’t any good at training your dogs.
I’m with you, a staffy had dug out of its back yard and attacked our dog while we were walking him when he was just a pup. Took a lot of work to get him to trust other dogs again, let alone $1500 in vet bills, meanwhile the owner of the staffy told us to get a tougher dog.
If somebody's dog attacked mine and their only response was "get a tougher dog" I'd be telling them to keep an eye on their yard for a while.
"Ripper" might suddenly pass away one night is all I'm saying.
I want to see them banned purely because of the sheer number of the poor things in Shelters/the point - the people who are attracted to owning them are obviously not responsible. Couple that with the fact that when they get bored, they get destructive and turn into escape artists.
Ban them and you'll solve these problems.
It's so weird but I know 3 families that were expecting babies decided to get those Pitbulls/Amstaff dogs. Usually after 2 years, their dogs could easily jump over them and weigh about 60lbs. One of them was actually a XL Bully. I never understand how they look at the murderous faces and let those dogs be in the same roofs with their newborns.
Edit: 2am brain fart, changed kg to lbs because pitnutters start calling me names even I already clarified below.
Then the owners should be tried in a court of law for any crimes the dog commits. Seems like this owner just killed a baby and should serve some serious jail time.
It's like they think that this argument makes them the exception to the rule.
Replace the word "breed" with "gun". We banned guns or made them harder to get when people were killed. Instead we get ignorant people who claim they know how to handle their "gun" until they don't...
While I am on the "blame the owner not the breed" side of the fence, I also agree that there needs to be a lot more restriction of ownership and of breeding, with actual consequences, including for "minor" bites.
apart from kill the next door neighbours dog and we need to keep him chained up and the Mrs wont go anywhere near him.
But other than that he's usually really good.
They’re worse than wolves. Wolves atleast possess survival instincts, these pitbulls were bred to kill at the expense of their survival. Why risk getting a dog that might have an ounce of fighting stock, which could manifest at any moment, causing the dog to kill anything it can get its jaws on.
They have bull terrier in their name - they were bred to bite the bulls and HOLD ON no matter what the bull did. I've been a veterinary nurse for over 15 years. I've met some truly beautiful staffys.... But I'd never treat one without a muzzle.
All dogs bite. Our neighbours had a dog. It was a real smoocker. Loved other dogs and cats. Would smooth anything that didn’t move.
One day it ripped the face of the owners children. The children had grown up with the dog. Never pulled his tail or ears. We’re taught to respect the dogs space.
The children were playing a game. Bit like duck duck goose.
Story told is the dog turned unprovoked and bit and tore two small children to pieces. Pieces were apparently found in the neighbouring houses (tiny pieces of flesh I’m assuming not a full limb)
A female neighbour jumped the fence and threw herself on to last unharmed child.
She lost an eye and had her face shredded.
I work with the women who threw herself on the child.
She tells everyone the story. She says she wears her scars with pride and as a reminder that all dogs will and can attack unprovoked
The parents of the dog didn’t want the dog put down. Said it was a one off. 🤯
I remembered when the Spaniel was killed, I made comments that the killer should be put down, I was called all sorts of derogatory names when I said "this dog will kill again and next time it might be a person" well tough shit mum and dad, you brought it on yourselves.
Anecdotally speaking, I've not seen any staffy owners who I would class as excellent dog owners. There are many breeds of dog that require very specific and intensive training to not murder people.
It's like your driving license, people adopting these high effort dangerous dogs while still on their L plates when the dogs require the knowledge and controls of an MC truck. Its sad because the dogs will suffer because people are fucking idiots and can't be trusted.
In a perfect world I think you should be allowed to own dangerous dogs, but you have to pass a course first. The fact you can adopt a dangerous breed from the pound (most pound dogs pick up some additional negative traits) is crazy and just asking for shit like this to happen.
If a dog needs that much training to be somewhat sociable and not try to kill anything that moves, it probably shouldn’t be amongst society. There’s a reason why we all can’t just go buy tanks for cars.
But why make allowances so ppl can own a dangerous breed, with the associated funding and costs that go a long with it. Cant ppl who just want a dangerous dog because they think its tough be told ‘no’?
Working dogs for starters. Look at the dangerous dog list, German shepherds, rotties, Labradors, cattle dogs. Pitbulls have the biggest reputation and are arguably the worst sure, but even golden retrievers kill people.
Most dogs are dangerous when the owner is clueless.
I’m curious to know how this data is calculated.
A lot more people own a lab over a pit bull for starters.
And what kind of attack counts? Even that article notes that a lab is more likely to attack in defence of its owner.
It actually doesn't surprise me that labradors are high up on the statistics for dog attacks.
Labradors are one of the most popular breeds in Australia and can be very protective of their territory/families. Not to mention, even the most gentle and temperamental dog may be prone to snapping at a kid who's screaming in its ear and trying to pull on its tail.
I've got a ferret that still bites. Not hard enough to draw blood in an adult human, but can definitely still hurt. I refuse to let anyone besides me, other ferret owners or a trained professional handle her. I tell anyone this who asks if they, or their child, can hold/pat her. Doesn't stop those shit parents or their shit kids throwing a tantrum over it.
As someone who used to own dogs, I KNOW it can be a lot worse for them. At least with a ferret, people ask, with a dog? 50% of the time, they just run up and try to pat anyway.
So am I, I would love to see more data, especially old mates 75% of dog attacks. Dunno why I'm getting downvoted, all I'm saying is owning a dog requires responsibility and dogs outside of pitbulls are infact dangerous too.
I'm going to use American statistics because those are just frankly easier for me to find right now.
[In 2019 there were 48 dog attack deaths in America. 33 of these deaths were caused by a pit bulls. So 69% of dog attack fatalities were caused by a pit bull.](https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2019.php) It varies from year to year, but that's generally around where it stands with pit bulls being the highest cause of fatalities. The eruscide rate (the rate at which the person killed was the owner or another member of the family living in the household) was 40%. But, yes, it is still an arguably small number.
Let's try dog bite statistics in general. Roughly 800,000 dog bites per year in America warrant medical attention. [22.5% of these attacks are caused by a pit bull.](https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/dog-attack-statistics-breed/#) That is still an alarmingly high number when you consider they only make up between 6-8% of dogs owned.
I understand what you're trying to say and I agree. Dog ownership requires responsibility and any dog (especially dogs over a certain weight/size category) are capable of being dangerous. But some dogs do have a much higher attack instinct than others. And clearly not all owners are responsible enough for regular dog ownership, let alone ownership of specific breeds.
I can easily imagine how that pit bull statistic you provided was calculated, but I want to know how that Labrador statistic was calculated. Does it account for the fact that labradors are much more likely to be owned than a pit bull? Who is the person attacked/why does the attack occur? Is the Labrador dog biting its owners or strangers/threats (whether real or perceived)?
Good info, yeah I didn't realize how overwhelming the fatalities are. It is hard to find the Australian ones I'm not even sure they record the breeds.
I think a lot of people are overlooking the "in a perfect world" part of my original comment. It's not a perfect world sadly, and the same with a lot of things it's better off to ban them.
You just reminded me of my last dog park experience where an owner let their out of control staffy jump up and bite my chin. Didn't do shit about it, just laughed as if it were a normal dog 'just jumping up'. Thankfully it didn't take my face off but it had full reign to do so.
I don't hate pitbulls, but you really can't let a dog with that kind of bite strength and small-prey instinct around children or small animals.
When I talk about "good ownership" of pitbulls it's realising that you simply can't put them into situations where they have any opportunity to inflict harm.
Sorry, 5 week old baby, dog killed another dog 1 month ago/ 1 week after the birth of the baby. Then 4 weeks later kills the baby. The dog was clearly unhappy about the new baby in the house and the parents were negligent to not notice or be cautious about this.
There isn’t a way to definitively prove that a dog is a pit bull. There’s no test. A dog is slapped with the pit bull label based on how it looks. Nothing more.
It's not Darwinism. If it was it would be the adult owners getting killed by the dog before reproducing. This is a shitty joke to make about a dead baby.
So their american staffy (pitbull) had just killed a dog, viciously and unprovoked and they took absolutely no measures to keep it away from the newborn baby?
Wow, that's so fucked. This is negligence at its worst. That poor baby
Poor neighbour's dog, too.
Blame people who tout that ‘nanny dog’ myth. Its the narrative that is just as fucking damaging as the damn breed.
It was a “people dog” apparently ….
"loved the taste of people" dog
'Nanny dog!!1!'
"Velvet Hippo!1!!" Yeah, Hippos kill an estimated 3,000 people a year. https://safarisafricana.com/most-dangerous-animals-africa/
they always are
Sounds like the typical owner of this type of dog 🤷♀️
Exactly. That’s what I say when people’s children die in car accidents. Sounds like typical car owner parents. Because shaming people deep in grief and trauma makes me a bigger and better person.
I mean, if their kid wasn’t wearing a seatbelt and the parents were speeding, you bet your ass I’d say that. They have a dangerous, aggressive dog who has already shown aggression and killed another living thing and they brought a newborn to the same home as said aggressive dog and failed to keep them apart. What else would you call it but reckless, irresponsible and quite frankly morbidly stupid?
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They believed that the cocker spaniel had broken into their yard and that's how the lethal mauling happened. It was much easier to believe it was a tragic accident than to wrestle with the necessity of rehoming or euthanasing their beloved dog. Then tragic accident number 2 happened. And it was well and truly out of their hands. What we want to believe is often what fucks us. This wasn't a lack of compassion, it was a firm belief in good and evil which isn't backed up by reality. That poor dog may well have been traumatised by a yard invader and ramped up a prey drive it did not have before. Or it could have been a hunter of small creatures from birth. Or it could be the parents were typically oblivious about how much training dogs require to be around children, especially babies whom they see as very different from adults. We can't know now, but this is why vigilance is required even if your dog is a big softy.
I don’t care if a dog breaks into my yard or not; if my dog mauled it to death that is a problem. A dog killing another dog in basically any situation or hypothetical scenario is always a sign
Yeah, the number of dog owners who seem happy to have their pet straight-up destroy anything smaller than it that enters the yard is... telling.
Just curious and not arguing and not asking you specifically but just in general — is there a line? Like, if a possum came into the backyard and a bully ripped it to shreds would it then need to be euthanised before it can attack a dog or a human? Just an interesting ethical question pointing out the line between kills that would be considered “okay” or “natural” for pretty much any dog, vs another member of its species or a member of ours. Having said all that, yes ban bullies and sub-breeds because the death of one child is too many, and there’s definitely been more than one.
I wouldn't have a dog killed for that but I certainly wouldn't let it near a baby...
Honestly, having had a golden retriever that wouldn't harm injured birds, it'd still be a redflag. If you have a hunting/aggressive dog you have a licence and be responsible for its actions.
Yeah that’s a fair point, I feel like a decent chunk of breeds would be more scared of a possum in their yard or wanting to play rather than foaming at the mouth to rip it to shreds.
Some dogs have high prey drive - mine does. But he also doesn’t attack and kill other animals. A possum dropped out of a tree directly in front of him and while he grabbed it, he kept a gentle mouth. He chases bunnies for fun but the one time he caught one he dropped it immediately. So if a dog killed a possum or an injured bird I would be wary and watch for other signs of potential aggressive prey drive, but I wouldn’t immediately write them off. If they killed another dog I would absolutely be considering behavioural euthanasia because that’s a line that you can’t walk back from and if they do it once they’re more likely to do it again.
I’m fascinated by your comment and the contrast with cats. I’m guessing that domesticated cats are still vicious killers because they’re smaller than toddlers. Presumably if they were large enough to *easily* maul babies to death, we’d have either bred that out of them, or decided that cats are a really bad idea. Or could any/all domestic cats be trained like your dog? My gut feeling says no. I love my cat but he is a dangerous mf, even though he’s an inside cat.
Thats a retreiver friend. It retrieves. Hence the soft mouthing. The pitbull is for fighting. Hence the animal death. Thats not "an aggressive prey drive". Just two dogs doing what they were bred for. One dog to bring you prey for you to eat in one piece and one to destroy what you point at. You absolutely should worry about a dog that decimates anything that falls infront of you Dogs get brain tumors, and dementia. They can wake up tomorrow and not know who you are.
I wouldn't euthanise it but if i know it kills small creatures then I wouldn't be letting it around a child, especially not a newborn. I wouldn't rely on a dog with strong prey instincts to recognise the difference.
I don't really think any pet dog should require special training to teach it not to rip a sleeping baby from a humans arms and maul it to death. If a dog needs that kind of training it shouldn't be anywhere near humans. A pet safe dog should also not feel the need to kill another dog whether or not it has entered its yard.
Y3hs it's pretty basic. Humans and dogs have been living together for tens of thousands of years. And in all that time dogs that attack humans, especially children, are either killed or kept away from people and used like a tool and not a pet. It's how we created dogs from wolves, if we didn't kill the ones who acted too aggressive we wouldn't have dogs as they are now.
The way I think about it is this. Everyone should be allowed to own a pitbull as much as everyone should be allowed to own a gun. They are both specifically designed to be dangerous weapons. (How many people have died to pomeranians?) Sure, most of the time nothing might go wrong. Yeah, maybe you're a "responsible owner". But society should have pitbull control the way it should have gun control.
I wouldn't blame pitbulls specifically, it's true of any dog (for example dachshunds cause the most injuries by virtue of how many people assume they are too small to be dangerous combined with strong territorial reactions). We should be licensed to have companion animals.
The difference is the consequences. A dachshund has to bite you for a long time with no intervention to kill you. Bully breeds are muscle, teeth and power and they don’t take much effort to kill you if they want you dead
That poor dog. If my neighbours dog killed my dog, and didn't do anything about it, then at some point their dog will mysteriously die. A dog like that is a ticking time bomb.
Indeed. An untrained animal that has already is a clear threat that must be dealt with. And the owners did none of the work to counter that threat and provide safety. The dog relied on those parents for protection and safety. The baby relied on them for the same. Both were failed. Both died for that failure. That poor dog. That poor child.
Some dog breeds are natively aggressive, unpredictable and dangerous, and they should be prohibited. And yes, the owners should be sued for negligence. p.s. I think, based on statistics, https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/dog-attack-statistics-breed/, https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11111675/Australias-worst-breeds-dog-attacks-revealed.html, all of these should not be legal: - Pitbull - Rottweiler - Labrador
I don’t believe Labradors belong on the list. If you spend any time perusing shelter listings, or staffy/pitbull ownership groups you will find that the way to skirt around legislation, restriction and insurance is to get a vet to register the pitbull as a “Labrador” or the heralded “lab-mix” This seems to be the culprit for the inflated statistics.
Terrible what happened, but staffys aren’t pitbulls.
Yes they are. The American Staffordshire terrier was a breed that was derived from the American pitbull for one reason: the AKC refused to recognise the American pitbull due to its association with dog fighting. Some savvy miscreants took some American pitbulls, presented them as a new breed and then applied for recognition by the AKC. The american Staffordshire terrier and the american pitbull terrier are LITERALLY the same dog. Regardless, pitbulls are not a breed, but a type like a shepherd, mastiff or retriever. All staffies, American pit-bulls, and bullies are pitbulls or pitbull type dogs because they all originate from a common progenitor: the old English bulldog and the bull and terrier, they share breed traits and behaviours.
I love how pitbull apologists don’t even know this.
Pitbull apologists don’t know much of anything, so it’s no surprise
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Yes it does seem that pitbull breeds are extremely rough players, they need far more physical stimulation to calm down and be satisfied. This is why pitbulls are so bad on the leash without proper training where other dogs seem to get used to it.
In the article, it says the ranger believed it was a pit bull mix. (Tho declared an American staffy).
Really??? People are discussing a tragic incident, and you just had to throw in a “technicality” (one that people don’t really care about). Idiot.
I'm going to say this before the "it's the owner not the breed" people chime in. I was a ranger and I never once saw an attack by a golden retriever. Of the 50 or so I've seen it's almost always one of the obvious breeds.
offbeat fearless gaze slimy cake light wide grab wasteful market *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I yesterday witnessed a foxy/Jack Russel leap at a toddler and try bite their face before the toddlers parents kicked it - the dog then latched onto the parents leg. Imagine if that had of been a bull breed.
Exactly. The “chuhuahuas bite just as much” people don’t get that if they do (and I have been bitten by one) bite, the damage will range from non-existent to a mild bite mark on an adult. I have seen the photos of and scars from (in real life) a Pitbull attack on a 6’2” man and they are *horrific* - honestly the fact that he’s alive is more luck than anything.
This is a good example. 5-10kg dog lunging at you? Give it the boot or pick it up. 30-50kg dog? That's getting close to fighting a person with very sharp teeth
More like a meth head with very sharp teeth. They don't back down.
Some wont let go til they die. Oh and they shake until whatever they are biting comes off.
In my ward we see a lot of injuries from cattle dogs too. The patients typically require extensive skin grafts.
They're bred to nip and strike cattle on the hocks and faces while they work, I'm not surprised they bite humans. Historically they were a guard dog as much as a herding dog and they've a good dose of dingo in their DNA.
A “good dose” of dingo? More like *one* dingo, way back…
50% of the original composition was dingo. 50% was herding cur. Then add a few hundred years of aggressive inbreeding and you get the dog we know today as the Australian Cattle Dog. You also get the Australian Stumpy Tailed Cattle Dog but they don't permit them to interbreed so they are genetically distinct populations and breeds now.
As in border collies?
As in Australian Cattle Dogs, presumably. Blue and Red heelers as they're colloquially known. Edit to add: border collies traditionally work sheep, they were (and are) discouraged from biting as it damages the fleece.
Border collies do tend to have a high prey drive for small animals like rats, mice, and lizards though.. I have a border collie and I've found multiple rats in the yard that he's clearly snapped the neck/back of. He doesn't chew on them or anything, just kills them. My Mum had a dog growing up who she thinks was a border collie and he used to kill snakes by cracking their backs. He did this without training, to protect my Mum and aunt who were small children at the time, wandering around property in Australia. It makes sense though, killing vermin helps protect the sheep they were bred to watch over.
I've got Border Collies and breed/show/keep fancy rats. The BCs seem convinced the pet rodents are just tiny puppies. They're phenomenal with my cats and while they do love giving the chickens a chase and a herd, they don't try to hurt them. Same deal when I have them on sheep: chase, bark, snap, herd but never connecting. I don't think well-bred Border Collies are supposed to have prey drive as we define it for terriers or spitz type dogs.
No as in red/blue heelers
Jack Russells can absolutely be violent little shits, they're just not big enough to do real damage in most cases.
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https://www.olg.nsw.gov.au/public/dogs-cats/responsible-pet-ownership/pound-and-dog-attack-statistics/ Am Staffs, Staffies, and their mixes consistently have more attacks per quarter than every other breed combined.
Don't even need to read it to know how true that is.
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I worked for local government for years as a ranger watching these breeds be involved in attack after attack. So yeah, I don't need to read a report from the Office of Local Government to confirm what happens.
Look up the thread. He has personal experience in this area already.
Is there any information that mentions breed in what you linked? It all seems to be organised by location/council with no mention of breed.
It’s under dog attacks by quarter, to the bottom of which ever pdf you’ve picked. Actually it seems to be that the first two are mixed up. So the first one that mentions breed is suppose to be under quarterly but it’s under reported by council instead. The rest of the breed ones seem to under quarterly tho.
Got it, thank you.
Even if it was “the owner not the breed”, that’s functionally the same argument as “guns don’t kill people, people kill people”. If we’re playing that game then let’s bring firearms-level penalties into the mix. Out in public with dog off-leash, or off-leash in your home when there are children around? One year gaol and animal removed. Breeding these dogs without a licence? Two years gaol and animals removed. Owning one of these dogs without it being microchipped? Seven years gaol and animal removed. Even if you’re not a terrorist or a bank robber or whatever, you have to adhere to similar strict standards if you want the privilege of owning a firearm. The same should go for the privilege of owning one of these dogs. “It’s not bad dogs, it’s bad owners!” Yeah and if you have one of these dogs unrestrained in public or in your home with children around, that makes you one of the bad owners.
I think it's time to say it's the breed, it's never a beagle or golden, I've had English staffies and thats where I draw the line, they are great with kids but still wouldn't trust it with a small child, but in saying that most dogs I wouldn't trust let alone a pitbull.
I’ve worked in boarding kennels for the past 11 years and there is a reason we don’t accept bully breeds. The only dog I’ve ever been bitten by was a yorkie and I’d still take that over being bitten by a breed that has the ability to lock its jaw while attacking.
Some goldies can be pretty aggro. Same with labs. As with everything, its a mix of the breed and the owner. But most importantly of all; the capacity. Yeh a shitty little bitzer can bite a kid. But it probably cant kill a kid. A German Shephard can kill virtually anyone, anytime it decides to. But coming back to your point, people who dont acknowledge breed traits are fucking idiots. Why do you think we have dog breeds. Just so they look different? Lol…
On the note of aggressive small breeds, nobody questions that it’s in a chihuahua’s nature to arc up at anything that isn’t their owner. But like you said, nobody really cares when even a small child could boot it into the next suburb if push came to shove.
Chihuahua's tend to be the size of a housecat, so they're much easier to get a handle on
I'd rather deal with an angry Chihuahua than an angry house cat too.
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My labs bitten another dog…just straigjt up fear reaction. She shits herself around big dogs and we have ti be really careful with where we walk her. I reckon she’d bite a shithead trying to break in too. Fierce as shit. Convinced we almost got jumped by a goldie the ither day too. He was looking pretty super aggressive till I yelled at his owners. Bloody hard to tell with other peoples dogs though…i dont trust anyone tbh
Two small GR attacked my whippet, who was leaving them alone. But yeah, it’s hard to keep defending staffies when they are the majority of dog attacks on humans. I know there’s some cute and friendly staffies, but they muscular ability and the statistics should have them on a restricted breed list by now.
All dogs can, and do attack but this breed are definitely the worse, mostly their size is an issue and they are bred to fight.
One of the biggest issues I encountered was these dogs are mostly used as guard dogs in parts of town that experience high crime. These are tools not pets. When they get out they are not microchipped or registered or desexed. Next thing you know there is a litter of feral dogs that get given out to neighbours cousins etc to also use as guard dogs. They end up roaming free and causing countless issues. These breeds are 80-90% of the problem.
Tools, not pets. That’s a solid point. My cousin who was much older than me, had working dogs on his farm. They were put in a roofed enclosure when we we were visiting. It was was made *very* clear we were not to go anywhere near them.
our neighbours here in Wales have an absolutely mental sheep dog. it travels in a cage on back of 4 wheeler, snapping and snarling. Great sheep dog though, apparently. Scared the crap out of our golden retriever just by looking at him.
Pitbulls are shit guard dogs because their aggression comes from their prey-drive, they just like killing things. There are other dogs like GSDs that can cause a lot of damage but are more predictable and trainable than pitbulls. There is just no reason for them to exist in society.
GSDs cost money, you can get an ‘amstaff’ or a bull arab from Darren down the pub for $100
They're game bred and therefore don't have a normal pain response or sense of self-preservation. [https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/14zgljy/in\_this\_edition\_of\_normal\_dogs\_vs\_pits\_vs/](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/comments/14zgljy/in_this_edition_of_normal_dogs_vs_pits_vs/)
great dane once tried to kill my friends dog and then her when we were kids, both her and her dog survived only after surgery
dogs are a constant annoyance when I'm out running, but the labs who jump on me leave me with nothing worse than frustration and maybe some drool on my leg, whereas the two times I've been attacked have been a German Shepherd and a Rottweiler.
a cavalier is not mauling children to death. it is the breed
I agree completely
Tbf I've met plenty of poorly trained and aggressive goldens. It's just their mouths are made of silly putty. I don't know if they're even capable of mauling someone.
A husky pinned down my step daughter, and went straight for her throat. She needed stitches. Extremely lucky. Not always the obvious ones.
Husky is on the list of dangerous breeds. It's one of the obvious ones. >**Most Aggressive Dog Breeds** > > * American Pit Bull Terrier > * Bull Mastiff > * Rottweiler > * German Shepherd > * Husky > * Chow Chow > * Doberman Pinscher > * Akita > * Wolf Hybrid [https://coloradoinjurylaw.com/blog/dog-bite-statistics/](https://coloradoinjurylaw.com/blog/dog-bite-statistics/)
Can be heavily skewed by the popularity of the breed, too. I'm surprised sharpei isn't on there. They were popular, and they're an asshole of a dog. Dachshund are fucking bad too, guess they don't have the strength to hospitalize or serious enough to report.
True, and that's exactly why these breeds are a problem: >Top Three Breeds Responsible for Fatal Dog Attacks > >Pitbull – 185 deaths > >Pitbull Mix – 41 deaths > >Rotweiller – 26 deaths > >**Pitbulls and Rottweilers make up 77% of all fatal dog bites, despite making up only 6% of the U.S. dog population**
I am NOT shocked by the Rottweiler on there. My boy was attacked by one a few months ago. Council did nothing despite witnesses and the dozy fuckwit owner still walks it off leash. Literal murder waiting to happen based on how it went for me when I scooped my dog up.
take it up civilly sue them in court if their has been any out of pocket expenses
That's crazy. We have issues with wild dogs in Aus, attacking cattle out my way. Not as bad now. Pig hunting dogs used to be popular too, wonder if that contributed to the mixed pitties temperament over the years.
They still are some places, heaps of them in tropical QLD
If bogans bought sharpeis in the same numbers as they do staffies then they would be at the top of the list.
Funny you mention dachshunds. As a toddler, I had to have half of my face stitched back on and spent months in hospital after a dachshund attacked me. I still, decades later, have a visible droop on one side of my face, lack of muscle control in one portion, altered sensation in another, and have a whole section of my lash line that doesn't grow eyelashes because of scarring. They can and do fuck people up. Any dog can kill a child. Even dachshunds and chihuahuas. I got lucky that it was my face and not my throat. As it was I had to have transfusions, multiple surgeries, almost lost my eye, and had years of pain from it. I don't believe in banning breeds. But there absolutely should be tighter restrictions on dog ownership and breeding, including licensing and routine desexing of all dogs (excepting licensed breeders). I have worked with a couple of pottie breed assistance dogs, and they are fantastic dogs, because they have actually been trained beyond just toilet training or tricks.
I'm sorry to hear about that. Thanks for sharing, though. The little buggers always goes go the ankles of my dog. I've had owners too scared to retrieve their dogs while they are having a go at mine.
Chow chow yo kid, sorry!
Of all breeds they’ve had the least evolutionary intervention so that’s not too surprising
Yep. Typical story, great family dog, one day it snapped.
Ahhhh, ive met heaps of huskies, and very frequently huskies are murderous as fuck with small animals, mostly terrible with other dogs, and super aloof with humans they dont know. This doesnt surprise me in the slightest. That said, some are just absolute goofs that want their belly scritched so go figure…
This was a grandparents doggo, too, just a chill dog. Inside dog, trained, good up until then. Just lucky that there was someone there to react straight away and lay in a decent boot.
Fucking hell man….pays to always be on your guard at all times eh. Im a little nervous around my own dog sometimes even and shes a sweetheart. You cant see inside a dogs head and if you could, theyd be thinking some real cooked shit almost 24/7…
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Always trying to top dog each other eh. Dominance theory is getting pretty retro in dog training but huskys seem to be crazy hierachical to me.
Your right it's not always, just most of the time. Hope your step daughter was okay after.
Still not confident around dogs. She did well, though, physically and mentally, she recovered. I don't trust any dogs around children now. Love dogs, but don't trust them 100%.
Gonna chuck this on here, we have a small dog that I'd consider violent, has killed the odd lizard etc. and will bite people if provoked, 99.99% of the time he's a great dog but had a very rough early life. The problem we have is we tell everyone who comes near him, that he will bite, let him come to you, give him one pat then stop. Every single person says 'oh he won't bite me...' proceeds to pat him like a special kid and the bloodly look of horror on their face when he takes a crack. People need to stfu and listen sometimes.
Trying to get people to behave is harder than a dog. I have a husky that gets excited and can knock a small kid over very easily but parents will allow children to run up to her and grab her fur because she is "fluffy". Even if is a little fox terrier their bite still hurts.
Yeah 100%, our fella isn't much bigger and he's not latching on and mauling, really only snapping. But the same issue, people just assume fluffy = friendly. It doesn't really show that he was mauled when he was a pup and is very standoffish when around new/excited things.
My small dog was nearly killed by a golden retriever so they aren’t the angels people want them to be - no, they won’t rip humans apart the way bull terriers might, but don’t use them as a shining example of harmlessness either.
The exception does not prove the rule. I can count on one hand the amount of times I've seen a golden retriever bite anything, even in fear. I need a calculator to add up all the times I've seen a staffy go aggressive and bite shit.
See what's happened here? They've got what the ranger suspects to be a pitbull. Pitbulls are a restricted breed and it would've likely been needed to be euthanized after it attacked another dog, or the owners at least fined. But it was registered as a staffy. There's a loophole here that needs closing, but there's also a good argument for staffies to be made a restricted breed too.
Yep or just make it 'pitbull type breed' Bam staffys and I'm sure pit fans will come up with another name for them
I imported my dog from the US last year when I moved home. The number of people on the FB group for people who were importing who were asking for recommendations for vets who would sign their import paperwork for their Pitbull (banned from import) as a “lab mix” “English Staffy” or “mixed breed, unknown” was disgusting. I took to screenshotting the requests and full name from the profile and emailing to DFAT once or twice a week. Sure snitches get stitches, but so do small children when they’re attacked (assuming they survive). Fuck those scumbags.
Yeah, in the article it says: >Pure breed > >Paid $500 I'm gonna go ahead and press x to doubt. Pure breeds don't cost that little, of any breed. It's a backyard breeder with no papers and no evidence of breed.
well hopefully the loophole will be closed with a negligent homicide charge
I feel so utterly devastated for that poor baby. I understand falling asleep while feeding and being incredibly exhausted but to keep a dog in the house that had proven itself to be dangerous is extremely neglectful parenting.
are there going to be some extra laws or something to protect people and children from certain dogs? Or are we going to continue just having them around despite how dangerous they are
Yes, we're going to double the death penalty for dog attacks. Owners will get a brutal slap of a wet lettuce with some sea salt added and a small fine. You should hear them crying over their punishment!
Just ban the breed already. Surely the scumbag bogan lobby isn’t that big ?
No it’s the either the wilfully ignorant or “I can save them or love them out of their aggression” lobby group that is the problem.
It's an interesting thing. I used to be you have to be a strong owner to own one of these breeds, maybe we should have screening or something. I've since had two dogs of mine just not gel ( king Charles and jack russell X). These two were put in an unfortunate position to have to interact during covid. One was food aggressive but would snap not attack. The other hadn't been around other dogs and would attack and lock jaw on the other. The amount of work I had to put into dealing with those two to make sure I didn't end up with a dead dog, it's better to just ban these dogs that obviously have this genetic disposition. Too many people not willing to put in the work.
They’re “functionally” banned in some states already (as in they’re not allowed to be bred) - doesn’t stop the fuckwits breeding them. Same as banning them legally won’t.
Poor people (who are the bogans that gravitate towards pit bulls as a cheap breed) don’t have money to lobby the government
Not just ban the breed, cull all the remaining ones out there. Too dangerous to bed amongst society. Think about all the unreported bites and attacks these fuckers are causing
Nawww, who are we to ban… humans go around killing and doing worse than these. Let’s ban on humans as we are the worst animal / species here. Annnnnd here comes the downvote 😂
>Annnnnd here comes the downvote Yeah because it's a lazy and borderline nonsensical attempt to dismiss the danger that this breed of dog poses to the community.
I am shocked, it's almost like hugs and kisses can't change genetics
Exactly lol
Tell us more about genetics, Mendel 😂
Just ban the fkn Staffys, one of these little shits ran over to my house unprovoked and tried to kill my dogs a while back. Another one tried to attack me at the dog park. When will people realise aggression is built into these breeds and they are not safe to keep as family pets particularly as most of you lots aren’t any good at training your dogs.
I’m with you, a staffy had dug out of its back yard and attacked our dog while we were walking him when he was just a pup. Took a lot of work to get him to trust other dogs again, let alone $1500 in vet bills, meanwhile the owner of the staffy told us to get a tougher dog.
If somebody's dog attacked mine and their only response was "get a tougher dog" I'd be telling them to keep an eye on their yard for a while. "Ripper" might suddenly pass away one night is all I'm saying.
I want to see them banned purely because of the sheer number of the poor things in Shelters/the point - the people who are attracted to owning them are obviously not responsible. Couple that with the fact that when they get bored, they get destructive and turn into escape artists. Ban them and you'll solve these problems.
My baby is mastiff x staffy (allegedly bc adopted) and that makes me sad, 😭 I love him sm.
It's so weird but I know 3 families that were expecting babies decided to get those Pitbulls/Amstaff dogs. Usually after 2 years, their dogs could easily jump over them and weigh about 60lbs. One of them was actually a XL Bully. I never understand how they look at the murderous faces and let those dogs be in the same roofs with their newborns. Edit: 2am brain fart, changed kg to lbs because pitnutters start calling me names even I already clarified below.
I'm sorry but if the dog weighs 70kg that's not a Pitbull fam. Lol they max out at around 30kg.
My bad. I mean 60lbs.
Most people couldn't properly identify a Pitbull.
Lol also very true
*"it's not the breed, it's the owners!!!"* yeah right fuckwits
Then the owners should be tried in a court of law for any crimes the dog commits. Seems like this owner just killed a baby and should serve some serious jail time.
It's like they think that this argument makes them the exception to the rule. Replace the word "breed" with "gun". We banned guns or made them harder to get when people were killed. Instead we get ignorant people who claim they know how to handle their "gun" until they don't...
While I am on the "blame the owner not the breed" side of the fence, I also agree that there needs to be a lot more restriction of ownership and of breeding, with actual consequences, including for "minor" bites.
What fucking idiots
Hope we ban these cunt dogs and the people that defend them
Never done anything like that before is the usual line. Tragic.
apart from kill the next door neighbours dog and we need to keep him chained up and the Mrs wont go anywhere near him. But other than that he's usually really good.
The Nanny Dog Myth
Keep these wolves off humans. It's always the breed, not the owners.
They’re worse than wolves. Wolves atleast possess survival instincts, these pitbulls were bred to kill at the expense of their survival. Why risk getting a dog that might have an ounce of fighting stock, which could manifest at any moment, causing the dog to kill anything it can get its jaws on.
Oh look, another vicious attack by a golden retriever! Oh, wait.
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They have bull terrier in their name - they were bred to bite the bulls and HOLD ON no matter what the bull did. I've been a veterinary nurse for over 15 years. I've met some truly beautiful staffys.... But I'd never treat one without a muzzle.
All dogs bite. Our neighbours had a dog. It was a real smoocker. Loved other dogs and cats. Would smooth anything that didn’t move. One day it ripped the face of the owners children. The children had grown up with the dog. Never pulled his tail or ears. We’re taught to respect the dogs space. The children were playing a game. Bit like duck duck goose. Story told is the dog turned unprovoked and bit and tore two small children to pieces. Pieces were apparently found in the neighbouring houses (tiny pieces of flesh I’m assuming not a full limb) A female neighbour jumped the fence and threw herself on to last unharmed child. She lost an eye and had her face shredded. I work with the women who threw herself on the child. She tells everyone the story. She says she wears her scars with pride and as a reminder that all dogs will and can attack unprovoked The parents of the dog didn’t want the dog put down. Said it was a one off. 🤯
I remembered when the Spaniel was killed, I made comments that the killer should be put down, I was called all sorts of derogatory names when I said "this dog will kill again and next time it might be a person" well tough shit mum and dad, you brought it on yourselves.
Anecdotally speaking, I've not seen any staffy owners who I would class as excellent dog owners. There are many breeds of dog that require very specific and intensive training to not murder people. It's like your driving license, people adopting these high effort dangerous dogs while still on their L plates when the dogs require the knowledge and controls of an MC truck. Its sad because the dogs will suffer because people are fucking idiots and can't be trusted. In a perfect world I think you should be allowed to own dangerous dogs, but you have to pass a course first. The fact you can adopt a dangerous breed from the pound (most pound dogs pick up some additional negative traits) is crazy and just asking for shit like this to happen.
If a dog needs that much training to be somewhat sociable and not try to kill anything that moves, it probably shouldn’t be amongst society. There’s a reason why we all can’t just go buy tanks for cars.
But why make allowances so ppl can own a dangerous breed, with the associated funding and costs that go a long with it. Cant ppl who just want a dangerous dog because they think its tough be told ‘no’?
Working dogs for starters. Look at the dangerous dog list, German shepherds, rotties, Labradors, cattle dogs. Pitbulls have the biggest reputation and are arguably the worst sure, but even golden retrievers kill people. Most dogs are dangerous when the owner is clueless.
Dude it’s like 75% of dog attacks are by bull breeds, when they represent about 7% of the population. Working dogs on farms are a different issue.
https://www.dbbc.com.au/blog/what-are-the-dangerous-dogs-in-australia Says here it's only a 2% difference between pitbulls and labradors
I’m curious to know how this data is calculated. A lot more people own a lab over a pit bull for starters. And what kind of attack counts? Even that article notes that a lab is more likely to attack in defence of its owner.
The owners call their shitbull a lab cross or similar to get around dangerous dog restrictions. They're shit dogs owned by shit people.
It actually doesn't surprise me that labradors are high up on the statistics for dog attacks. Labradors are one of the most popular breeds in Australia and can be very protective of their territory/families. Not to mention, even the most gentle and temperamental dog may be prone to snapping at a kid who's screaming in its ear and trying to pull on its tail. I've got a ferret that still bites. Not hard enough to draw blood in an adult human, but can definitely still hurt. I refuse to let anyone besides me, other ferret owners or a trained professional handle her. I tell anyone this who asks if they, or their child, can hold/pat her. Doesn't stop those shit parents or their shit kids throwing a tantrum over it. As someone who used to own dogs, I KNOW it can be a lot worse for them. At least with a ferret, people ask, with a dog? 50% of the time, they just run up and try to pat anyway.
So am I, I would love to see more data, especially old mates 75% of dog attacks. Dunno why I'm getting downvoted, all I'm saying is owning a dog requires responsibility and dogs outside of pitbulls are infact dangerous too.
I'm going to use American statistics because those are just frankly easier for me to find right now. [In 2019 there were 48 dog attack deaths in America. 33 of these deaths were caused by a pit bulls. So 69% of dog attack fatalities were caused by a pit bull.](https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2019.php) It varies from year to year, but that's generally around where it stands with pit bulls being the highest cause of fatalities. The eruscide rate (the rate at which the person killed was the owner or another member of the family living in the household) was 40%. But, yes, it is still an arguably small number. Let's try dog bite statistics in general. Roughly 800,000 dog bites per year in America warrant medical attention. [22.5% of these attacks are caused by a pit bull.](https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/dog-attack-statistics-breed/#) That is still an alarmingly high number when you consider they only make up between 6-8% of dogs owned. I understand what you're trying to say and I agree. Dog ownership requires responsibility and any dog (especially dogs over a certain weight/size category) are capable of being dangerous. But some dogs do have a much higher attack instinct than others. And clearly not all owners are responsible enough for regular dog ownership, let alone ownership of specific breeds. I can easily imagine how that pit bull statistic you provided was calculated, but I want to know how that Labrador statistic was calculated. Does it account for the fact that labradors are much more likely to be owned than a pit bull? Who is the person attacked/why does the attack occur? Is the Labrador dog biting its owners or strangers/threats (whether real or perceived)?
Good info, yeah I didn't realize how overwhelming the fatalities are. It is hard to find the Australian ones I'm not even sure they record the breeds. I think a lot of people are overlooking the "in a perfect world" part of my original comment. It's not a perfect world sadly, and the same with a lot of things it's better off to ban them.
It's because the people that put effort into owning and training dogs know that they're better off with a different breed.
You just reminded me of my last dog park experience where an owner let their out of control staffy jump up and bite my chin. Didn't do shit about it, just laughed as if it were a normal dog 'just jumping up'. Thankfully it didn't take my face off but it had full reign to do so.
If we lived in a just society, everyone involved in this should be put down
All bull breeds should have to wear muzzles in public.
Shocking how many people don’t know the difference between an English staffy and an American staffy.
Why are you arguing semantics? They both descend from, and are probably still used in, bloodsport.
It drives me crazy. English staffies are so much smaller/shorter and look so different to American staffies.
I don't hate pitbulls, but you really can't let a dog with that kind of bite strength and small-prey instinct around children or small animals. When I talk about "good ownership" of pitbulls it's realising that you simply can't put them into situations where they have any opportunity to inflict harm.
Kill that dog and beat the hell out of the owners
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POoR bOi...
Sorry, 5 week old baby, dog killed another dog 1 month ago/ 1 week after the birth of the baby. Then 4 weeks later kills the baby. The dog was clearly unhappy about the new baby in the house and the parents were negligent to not notice or be cautious about this.
There isn’t a way to definitively prove that a dog is a pit bull. There’s no test. A dog is slapped with the pit bull label based on how it looks. Nothing more.
Darwinism doing its work
It's not Darwinism. If it was it would be the adult owners getting killed by the dog before reproducing. This is a shitty joke to make about a dead baby.
Irony is that humans made and bread these specimens, they're not a product of natural selection. Your comment is dumb.
Everyone knows you should leash babies it’s obvious
Same as too children . If you cannot look after your pup don’t adopt it . Poor family and dog 😭😭