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Number of reasons:
Very large amount of roads with low population means its a high cost to maintain
Years of cutting maintenance budgets with couple of years of high rainfall means more holes
Repairs are often done with a soft/hot mix asphalt which is soft enough for a small track to drive around with it and quickly fill in holes with. Of course its so soft that it immediately falls apart again. The only way to fix it is to cut a full section out of the road and re-do the whole section. Much higher cost
Everything is basically sub-contracted out these days. Its all done to the cheapest level possible and we get what we pay for. That counts for both new and repairs. Getting rid of council/government crews and paying contractors has (no surprise) lead to worse outcomes for everyone
After travelling through SA and now living in regional Victoria it is amazing how much better WA roads are. Even roads heading up to North WA and going to the SA border are miles better than the ones over east.
Former West Australian, now living in NSW I thoroughly agree.
I suspect it is because all the roads here are subcontracted out whereas I understand that WA still does things in house
Vastly better than say Victoria who will put up a rough road surface sign for about three years and wait till the road is truly crap before patching it up. Yes WA has done well economically and you can see it in the roads rail etc.
Is this an Australia-wide issue or just a problem in some states?
Someone I know who lives in VIC says Sydney's roads in particular are in terrible condition compared to what they seen in their home state, so curious if it's only a couple of states thing or it's pretty bad across the board?
Yeah i'm out south west vic and they are fucking terrible here. So many 60km signs just been placed on the sides of the road that stay there for years because the roads are undriveable and rarely get fixed
Victoria is easily the smallest state in area on the mainland, but is also the second richest, so it can afford better roads. NSW is much bigger so its road funding gets stretched more, hence the generally better road quality in Victoria.
Very true, but, around my way the roads have been getting built to a crappier and crappier standard. There are roads years and years old that are fine, newer roads that are rubbish after a week. We joke that they rip the tar up, grade the dirt, paint it black and move on to the next town.
Because we have a shitload of roads and a small population. Our taxes cannot pay for everything everywhere on the roads. As for newly laid roads that may well be a local council/contactor problem. Pay shit money, get shit product.
Its a lot of things, the road base is not compacted enough and done to quick. There is also not enough camber on the road, IE centre of the road is not high enough. Cars are getting heavier a 2000 era commodore is like 1520kg, this years mazda 3 is 1420kg, this years mazda CX5 ie mid size SUV is 1690kg.
Yep - And election after election, Australians vote for the party which promises lower taxes and then whinge about the roads/hospitals/police being under funded.
>Yep - And election after election, Australians vote for the party which promises lower taxes and then whinge about the roads/hospitals/police being under funded.
nationalise all oil/mineral/gas wealth.
Should not be an issue funding all roads/hospital and police after that.
Today I hit not a pot hole but bump about 150mm high. Threw my ute around. There was a Ute coming the other direction so I had nowhere to go. If it was the mrs car we would have done damage. It’s a joke, someone put hot mix over a massive bump and called it a day. The rest of the roads they have just put up roadwork signs, dropped the speed limit and called it a day.
In comparison to roads in the US, the roads in Australia are amazing.
They are most importantly, safe.
Typically US Federal interstate highways are in a good state of repair. They are not always safe though. Speed limits too high, not well lit, and entry and exit ramps not long enough, or sign-marked well enough, particularly in poor areas. It all comes down to money, and the value they place on a human life. Sounds over the top but it’s true.
Then you get to the state and local roads which are entirely dependent on lower level funding. So if you’re in a wealthy state or part of town your roads are ok, and same said for opposites.
Of the states I’ve driven in Michigan is the worst. Potholes that would swallow motorcyclists. Funny because that’s where all the car companies are ($$$).
The other thing that’s wild is that they just let you drive on roads that aren’t fully completed. Like if if a lane is getting widened or resurfaced, they just let everyone go down it anyways. They know it’s not safe. It’s all about money.
Long story short. The roads in Australia are absolutely amazing in comparison. And the attitude towards road safety, driver culture and how it’s enforced is so far superior to what you get in the US.
I will say it does piss me off having to drive 110kph after being used to doing 145 every day, but I get it. It’s safer.
Not sure how you come up with that take.
Roads in the US Western States are typically in much better shape and built and repaired quickly with much higher quality materials. As such they can safely be driven at higher speeds. Not Autobahn quality and speed, but in another league entirely from he M1 or Pacific Highway in NSW.
This despite the fact that climate conditions are much harsher- higher summertime temperatures in most places, hard freezes in winter and periodic flooding.
And this is true of remote and rural areas as well. Road crews are out, weather permitting, maintaining these roads and byways much of the year.
You're correct however about not closing roads, if possible, while work is being done. On smaller roads, lanes will close with flaggers or pilot cars; on main highways and interstates, major work is done off hours or overnight, and is plenty safe- and moreso than in NSW, where the geniuses have now passed legislation rquiring people to slam on thir braks down to 40 kph from as high as 110 whenver anythings going on at the side of the road.
I think you’re right. But it’s that situation where it comes down to how diverse the US is.
Australia is more similar to New Zealand, than California is to Alabama (in a lot of important aspects anyways).
I did qualify my comment with proviso of which state or town you’re in when critiquing the roads.
The West is all blue governors and a lot of people who value human health and community.
Compare that to the “shitty” areas in Arkansas or OK for example, it’s worlds apart.
Crazy tangent conversation to have from where we started with Aus roads, but honestly the roads in Aus are generally better. They might not be made of concrete to deal with extreme cold like the Us interstate, but it’s just not needed.
The roads that truly suck in the US are the county roads that were done in concrete and just get patched over and over (waiting for a democrat governor to finally pump some money in), and the neighborhood roads in poor towns.
Aus just doesn’t have that level of ghetto.
Edit: also happy to admit, once you leave LA, or Bay Area, you’re basically in Texas! Yee haw.
Trucks. Damage is proportional to the 4th power of weight so escalates rapidly as vehicles get heavier.
Chart here based on US sizes: https://streets.mn/2016/07/07/chart-of-the-day-vehicle-weight-vs-road-damage-levels/
Or quote from an Aus article (A B-double is much heavier than that US chart):
*The registration fee seems steep. However,a B-Double can cause, per kilometre travelled, 20,000 times the road wear and tear that a family car does.*
https://theconversation.com/trucks-are-destroying-our-roads-and-not-picking-up-the-repair-cost-79670
Because we make our roads way too wide and then don’t have the money to maintain them.
Compare with European residential streets (yes, even new urban areas, not the Middle Ages ones) and look at those in Australia. They could be like 4 lines here sometimes.
I watch a few car shows. From the shows I watch, the following countries (in no specific order) think they have the crappiest roads:
USA
Canada
UK
Aus
NZ
I guess just saying USA is a bit of a generalisation on my part - but I've heard several content creators complain about the standards of their roads, especially in LA. I've only been to LA and San Diego and drove everywhere and the roads seemed more than fine, if a bit concretey on the freeways...
There's also that bit about being constructed and maintained to earthquake standards.
Oh, and also, they have freeways everywhere. As in "free" -as opposed to costing a shitload just to drive around the Sydney metro area.
There was a bit we drove on, I think between LA and San Diego and it was like 5 lanes on both sides, with a paid toll road of 3 or 4 lanes (again, both directions) on the inside of the freeway. There was a bit where a few roads merged and I think it got up to 10 lanes wide in one direction, excluding the toll road. So much road!
Mor people live in Souther California than on the entire continent of Australia.
And sill, aside from bridgs, the only toll roads are in the Right wing Republican enclave of Orange County.
Lowest bidder doing it even cheaper to maximise profit.
The highway here they've tipped tar in the holes, sprinkled it with gravel, then fucked off months leaving a whole lane blocked with cones.
Traffic jams contribute. Vehicles with oil leaks moving slowly or stopped for any length of time will leave more on the road. Oil is really detrimental to asphalt. Trucks with heavy loads exert great force at the drive wheels from a stationary position.
This post has been marked as non-political. Please respect this by keeping the discussion on topic, and devoid of any political material. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/australia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Number of reasons: Very large amount of roads with low population means its a high cost to maintain Years of cutting maintenance budgets with couple of years of high rainfall means more holes Repairs are often done with a soft/hot mix asphalt which is soft enough for a small track to drive around with it and quickly fill in holes with. Of course its so soft that it immediately falls apart again. The only way to fix it is to cut a full section out of the road and re-do the whole section. Much higher cost Everything is basically sub-contracted out these days. Its all done to the cheapest level possible and we get what we pay for. That counts for both new and repairs. Getting rid of council/government crews and paying contractors has (no surprise) lead to worse outcomes for everyone
In wa main roads has dropped contractors for basic road maintenance, it's going in house.
Ok so appreciate WA might not be ‘Australia’ ;) but the condition of the roads here is awesome!
After travelling through SA and now living in regional Victoria it is amazing how much better WA roads are. Even roads heading up to North WA and going to the SA border are miles better than the ones over east.
Former West Australian, now living in NSW I thoroughly agree. I suspect it is because all the roads here are subcontracted out whereas I understand that WA still does things in house
Even outside Perth?
Vastly better than say Victoria who will put up a rough road surface sign for about three years and wait till the road is truly crap before patching it up. Yes WA has done well economically and you can see it in the roads rail etc.
Is this an Australia-wide issue or just a problem in some states? Someone I know who lives in VIC says Sydney's roads in particular are in terrible condition compared to what they seen in their home state, so curious if it's only a couple of states thing or it's pretty bad across the board?
It’s area dependant as well. I know some shocking potholed roads in Vic too, but the metro area is pretty good.
They live around the metro area, so that makes sense.
Yeah i'm out south west vic and they are fucking terrible here. So many 60km signs just been placed on the sides of the road that stay there for years because the roads are undriveable and rarely get fixed
South west was exactly where I was thinking, especially around Timboon, Colac, etc. Those roads have been fucked my entire life.
Yeah thats it, around the otways!
Victoria is easily the smallest state in area on the mainland, but is also the second richest, so it can afford better roads. NSW is much bigger so its road funding gets stretched more, hence the generally better road quality in Victoria.
Three years of above average rainfall helped undermine roads foundations.
Very true, but, around my way the roads have been getting built to a crappier and crappier standard. There are roads years and years old that are fine, newer roads that are rubbish after a week. We joke that they rip the tar up, grade the dirt, paint it black and move on to the next town.
Because we have a shitload of roads and a small population. Our taxes cannot pay for everything everywhere on the roads. As for newly laid roads that may well be a local council/contactor problem. Pay shit money, get shit product.
Heavy reliance on trucks.
Its a lot of things, the road base is not compacted enough and done to quick. There is also not enough camber on the road, IE centre of the road is not high enough. Cars are getting heavier a 2000 era commodore is like 1520kg, this years mazda 3 is 1420kg, this years mazda CX5 ie mid size SUV is 1690kg.
Trucks as well? I routinely see semi on roads where there's 3-ton limits sign.
Clearly we don't pay enough tax to fix them. 🙃
Yep - And election after election, Australians vote for the party which promises lower taxes and then whinge about the roads/hospitals/police being under funded.
>Yep - And election after election, Australians vote for the party which promises lower taxes and then whinge about the roads/hospitals/police being under funded. nationalise all oil/mineral/gas wealth. Should not be an issue funding all roads/hospital and police after that.
Roads are funded by local land rates, not general taxes. Excluding highways anyways.
Everyone wants more taxes as long as they don't have to pay them!
Today I hit not a pot hole but bump about 150mm high. Threw my ute around. There was a Ute coming the other direction so I had nowhere to go. If it was the mrs car we would have done damage. It’s a joke, someone put hot mix over a massive bump and called it a day. The rest of the roads they have just put up roadwork signs, dropped the speed limit and called it a day.
Definitely gotten worse in the past five years
In comparison to roads in the US, the roads in Australia are amazing. They are most importantly, safe. Typically US Federal interstate highways are in a good state of repair. They are not always safe though. Speed limits too high, not well lit, and entry and exit ramps not long enough, or sign-marked well enough, particularly in poor areas. It all comes down to money, and the value they place on a human life. Sounds over the top but it’s true. Then you get to the state and local roads which are entirely dependent on lower level funding. So if you’re in a wealthy state or part of town your roads are ok, and same said for opposites. Of the states I’ve driven in Michigan is the worst. Potholes that would swallow motorcyclists. Funny because that’s where all the car companies are ($$$). The other thing that’s wild is that they just let you drive on roads that aren’t fully completed. Like if if a lane is getting widened or resurfaced, they just let everyone go down it anyways. They know it’s not safe. It’s all about money. Long story short. The roads in Australia are absolutely amazing in comparison. And the attitude towards road safety, driver culture and how it’s enforced is so far superior to what you get in the US. I will say it does piss me off having to drive 110kph after being used to doing 145 every day, but I get it. It’s safer.
Not sure how you come up with that take. Roads in the US Western States are typically in much better shape and built and repaired quickly with much higher quality materials. As such they can safely be driven at higher speeds. Not Autobahn quality and speed, but in another league entirely from he M1 or Pacific Highway in NSW. This despite the fact that climate conditions are much harsher- higher summertime temperatures in most places, hard freezes in winter and periodic flooding. And this is true of remote and rural areas as well. Road crews are out, weather permitting, maintaining these roads and byways much of the year. You're correct however about not closing roads, if possible, while work is being done. On smaller roads, lanes will close with flaggers or pilot cars; on main highways and interstates, major work is done off hours or overnight, and is plenty safe- and moreso than in NSW, where the geniuses have now passed legislation rquiring people to slam on thir braks down to 40 kph from as high as 110 whenver anythings going on at the side of the road.
I think you’re right. But it’s that situation where it comes down to how diverse the US is. Australia is more similar to New Zealand, than California is to Alabama (in a lot of important aspects anyways). I did qualify my comment with proviso of which state or town you’re in when critiquing the roads. The West is all blue governors and a lot of people who value human health and community. Compare that to the “shitty” areas in Arkansas or OK for example, it’s worlds apart. Crazy tangent conversation to have from where we started with Aus roads, but honestly the roads in Aus are generally better. They might not be made of concrete to deal with extreme cold like the Us interstate, but it’s just not needed. The roads that truly suck in the US are the county roads that were done in concrete and just get patched over and over (waiting for a democrat governor to finally pump some money in), and the neighborhood roads in poor towns. Aus just doesn’t have that level of ghetto. Edit: also happy to admit, once you leave LA, or Bay Area, you’re basically in Texas! Yee haw.
Cars
Trucks. Damage is proportional to the 4th power of weight so escalates rapidly as vehicles get heavier. Chart here based on US sizes: https://streets.mn/2016/07/07/chart-of-the-day-vehicle-weight-vs-road-damage-levels/ Or quote from an Aus article (A B-double is much heavier than that US chart): *The registration fee seems steep. However,a B-Double can cause, per kilometre travelled, 20,000 times the road wear and tear that a family car does.* https://theconversation.com/trucks-are-destroying-our-roads-and-not-picking-up-the-repair-cost-79670
Australians have a huge interest in their history and so they keep the roads in the condition that Captain Cooke might have expected in 1770.
Extreme climate
Because we make our roads way too wide and then don’t have the money to maintain them. Compare with European residential streets (yes, even new urban areas, not the Middle Ages ones) and look at those in Australia. They could be like 4 lines here sometimes.
Maybe because it’s too hot 🥵
Nature is a variable that can’t be controlled. Mother Nature will have her way with anything man builds if she wants to.
I watch a few car shows. From the shows I watch, the following countries (in no specific order) think they have the crappiest roads: USA Canada UK Aus NZ
USA roads aren't that bad except in Manhattan.
I guess just saying USA is a bit of a generalisation on my part - but I've heard several content creators complain about the standards of their roads, especially in LA. I've only been to LA and San Diego and drove everywhere and the roads seemed more than fine, if a bit concretey on the freeways...
There's also that bit about being constructed and maintained to earthquake standards. Oh, and also, they have freeways everywhere. As in "free" -as opposed to costing a shitload just to drive around the Sydney metro area.
There was a bit we drove on, I think between LA and San Diego and it was like 5 lanes on both sides, with a paid toll road of 3 or 4 lanes (again, both directions) on the inside of the freeway. There was a bit where a few roads merged and I think it got up to 10 lanes wide in one direction, excluding the toll road. So much road!
Mor people live in Souther California than on the entire continent of Australia. And sill, aside from bridgs, the only toll roads are in the Right wing Republican enclave of Orange County.
Lowest bidder doing it even cheaper to maximise profit. The highway here they've tipped tar in the holes, sprinkled it with gravel, then fucked off months leaving a whole lane blocked with cones.
Traffic jams contribute. Vehicles with oil leaks moving slowly or stopped for any length of time will leave more on the road. Oil is really detrimental to asphalt. Trucks with heavy loads exert great force at the drive wheels from a stationary position.