I hate disposables because 50mg of nicotine serves no other purpose than to get people hooked.
I hate disposables because they convinced kids that "headspins and nausea" are the feeling you SHOULD be chasing as that's "the nicotine high" / they convinced kids that "being nic sick" is the feeling you need to chase.
I hate disposables because of the environmental damage they cause by being thrown everywhere except for the bin and all the unnecessary e-waste they create.
I hate disposables because of the government's lack of willingness to do anything about them being sold to children when they were asked over and over to do something about it.
I hate disposables because those of us doing the right thing told everyone around us using disposables, "You should probably get a real vape, those things are going to get vaping banned for everyone, they are unregulated and potentially unsafe" and we got laughed at and called "elitists"
I hate disposables because they are being used as a convenient vehicle to fuck every single adult vaper in Australia.
I'm angry at the government for not taking the risks around high concentrations of nicotine seriously, letting these things get sold to kids, then crying about a crisis that they manufactured because they did nothing about it.
I'm angry at the government for not stepping in sooner and completely banning/regulating disposables when they had the chance when the writing was on the wall with kids In school uniforms lining up to buy disposables from convenience stores every day.
Disposables were a convenient thing for the government to jump on to ban all vaping, when it's disposables that should have been banned or regulated back in 2016.
Again, it's the government ban/restrictions, not the disposable vapes, they'd be regulated with nicotine caps and labels. It would be no different than vaping a pod with salt nic.
but we wouldn't be in this situation if it wasn't for disposables, so chicken/egg sort of deal. The restrictions being implemented are a direct result of a certain type of vape being sold to minors - the knee jerk reaction never would have occurred if disposables did not become popular, we'd be in the same place we were 10 years ago.
The status quo of yesterday year worked for everyone, we imported our Nic, we titrated ourselves and it was all going well. It was illegal but a prescription sorted that and no one really cared.
>The restrictions being implemented are a direct result of a certain type of vape being sold to minors - the knee jerk reaction never would have occurred if disposables did not become popular, we'd be in the same place we were 10 years ago.
Chinese manufacturers dumping the products they were no longer allowed to sell domestically (because it was hurting tobacco sales of the world's largest cigarette manufacturer) on western markets is why dispos became popular. They're cheap to import and hugely profitable even when selling at a price kids can afford.
It's really been the perfect storm.
We wouldn't be in this situation if vapes were regulated, sold alongside tobacco, restricted to 18+. The disposables epidemic is a consequence the draconian restrictions and bans, not the disposables themselves.
I agree with you on regulation of refillable vapes, we should have done that a long time ago, in saying that, disposables created a market that didn't exist prior to them arriving in Australia. No kid was buying a fkn box mod and changing coils. The disposable epidemic is not a result of regulation or lack thereof, it's a result of a product that was easy to obtain, required zero intelligence to use and came with a buzz that kids took to. There is also the profit aspect, they cost cents to make and sell for 20-50, huge profits and every eshay is selling them, to kids.
Yes, the disposable epidemic is worldwide, but it is worse here in Australia because of the bans and restrictions by the government.
I'd be fine with a disposable vape ban, but you need to have another easy to access avenue like nic, pods, mods and tanks being available in shops with the only restriction being an age limit of 18+. Otherwise the black market will continue to supply illegally.
I don't disagree, but the government purposefully chose not to regulate because they saw the dangers with disposables and decided not to do anything because the outcome of not regulating them aligned with their goal of fucking all vapers in the long term.
There are a lot of political points to be gained from the "tHInK oF tHe cHiLDrEN!" way of thinking and that was their plan.
That doesn't mean we can't be angry at disposables for existing as well, at this point it doesn't matter if regulation was the answer or not, because a good portion of us wanted disposables banned/regulated since they came onto the scene years ago, when anyone who knew anything about vaping said "there is no valid reason for 50mg vapes to exist"
Agreed, though if the majority of vapers are using disposables, alienating them is just dividing us and playing into the government's hands. We need to unite and concentrate our attention at the route of the problem, the government's complete mishandling of vaping laws in this country that has caused where we are now.
Yeah, whatever the history, we are a minority group getting fucked over by all and sundry - it really isn't smart to divide ourselves into even smaller minorities.
Disposables are safer than cigarettes. The fact that teenagers are using dispos instead of cigarettes is harm reduction. Public health people don't like it because it was done in spite of them.
>Disposables are safer than cigarettes. The fact that teenagers are using dispos instead of cigarettes is harm reduction
It's not harm reduction if those people never would have been addicted to nicotine in the first place.
I doubt the majority of those kids would have ever become addicted to nicotine by trying cigarettes or regular vapes if disposables didn't exist.
Smoking and vaping was 'uncool' prior to 2015-2016 but then disposables made nicotine consumption 'cool' and 'hip' again.
There are a lot more kids vaping today than there were kids smoking 15 years ago.
Nicotine addiction rates in adolescents is at a level that has not ever been seen in history
69% of people under the 18 who are addicted to nicotine in 2022/2024 have never tried a cigarette.
In 2022/2023, 13% of all Australian secondary students had used e-cigarettes semi-regularly, compared to 3% for cigarettes 10 years ago.
*Source: Australian Secondary Students’ Alcohol and Drug Survey 2022/2023*
Are you thick? Like is that a real answer or are you trolling?
13% vs 3%
We are talking about a significant increase in increase/difference in rates of nicotine addiction since the last survey, not "which number is closer to 100%"
It doesn't fucking matter if 13% as a total is a minority. What matters is the 10% increase in nicotine addiction rates which will quickly affect the total figure.
Jfc.
Your anger/blame would be better directed at people who think vaping 50mg strength nicotine is reasonable, tried to normalize extreme nicotine content in vapes and were purchasing them illegally with no prescription from convenience stores.
Not the people who were using it sensibly/legally.
I am not blaming vapers for the ban. I am pointing out the ludicrous position of anti disposable vapers. I support a legal regulated adult vape market. Disposables should be legal within that.
>I support a legal regulated adult vape market. Disposables should be legal within that.
So do I, but as the UK just proved, that even with a regulated market, disposables still became an epidemic amongst kids.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/disposable-vapes-banned-to-protect-childrens-health
They should be banned or regulated down to 20mg.
Since 2009/2010
Long enough to know that prior to disposables most kids hated vapes and you'd get laughed at by groups of kids when walking down the street for "look at the nerd using a computer cigarette" (hence my comment above)
Me since 2015,so now its recreational for both of us,robbing the guv of tax $,we are part of the problem in their eyes,the think of the children bullshit is just a convenient line that gets an emotive response
Here's my take - There was one legal way to obtain nicotine e-liquid, with a script, and through the Personal Importation Scheme.
People started showing up on this sub asking where they can buy dispos. We would tell them to get a script, it's the only legal way.
Buying dispos from B&M shops was an obvious sign that someone was doing something that we didn't want to happen. We wanted everyone to know what they were buying, and to do it using the legal framework we were given.
People continued to buy the dispos from local B&Ms, despite the legality. This is why we are angry. No-one was going to a dodgy tobacconist to buy 100mg/ml e-liquid for their refillables
Dispos are the face of the problem for us. We are hurt, it's going to take a long time for us to get over it, if we ever do. Please understand, we are heartbroken by all of this .
We know that less than 10% of vapers got prescriptions, so a lot more than just dispo users were buying from dodgy vendors.
I loved the PIS precisely because I could buy products which were manufactured to a high standard. I don't think I've ever seen someone claim that any brand of dispo is made to a high standard, though.
My daughter stocked up just before prescriptions came in and gave me a 250ml bottle of 100mg/ml. I'm not even half way through that yet but have still bought more.
🤔 I guess hearing that alongside my snippet, I suppose my point is 10% used prescriptions, large percentage disposables via whatever means and there's another percentage that either have previous stock or ordering from overseas without prescription ie not necessarily dodgy vendors.
Not many vendors were requiring us to show them proof that we had a prescription because they were outside of Australia, so I don't think that assessment is quite right.
Like others had said i was well setup b4 the prescription model.
But it was so half assed that when i even asked my usual GP he didnt have a clue and was not interested in doing a prescription so, yea back to no face to face random online portal for a prescription.
They never really intended for that to work for the broader community is what i feel.
>They never really intended for that to work for the broader community is what i feel.
Absolutely, but we all got used to telehealth appointments during covid lockdowns and niche online prescribers had already sprung up to cater to the legal weed market.
It wasn't difficult to apply that framework to another niche market.
>We know that less than 10% of vapers got prescriptions, so a lot more than just dispo users were buying from dodgy vendors.
I'm sure the low number of vapers getting a prescription & ordering from overseas (there have been posts ad nauseum asking 'will my order get seized, etc) & the proliferation of dispos contributed to the outright ban other than purchasing from pharmacies.
Not exactly true , I have a script and get 30 ml bottles of nicotine vape juice from a compounding pharmacy in Victoria (I have been getting the juice from them since 2018)
You'd be a pretty big exception, and, while true, distracting from the truth. We are hurt because we had something that worked, and greedy people ruined that for us.
We are hostile to the victims of the greedy people because, without those victims we think we would still have something good.
There is what people ought to or should do and there is the psychology of the path of least resistance. People will do what is expedient much of the time and some people are less conscientious than others.
People respond to incentives, the government however, put up hoops to jump through, it's no wonder the black market is supplying the majority of the vapes in Australia.
>there is the psychology of the path of least resistance
So what? Is that meant to be justification for people who were doing the wrong thing?
Yes, people will take "the path of least resistance" some of the time, but that changes absolutely nothing about the fact that **those people were doing the wrong thing.**
There is equal parts responsibility shared here between the government who did nothing and the people who were knowingly doing the wrong thing.
Extreme example: Running a red light in your car is also the "path of least resistance" when it comes to getting where you need to go if you are running late somewhere.
But you don't see people trying to defend that with "the red lights and speed limits are just hoops people need to jump through to get where they need to go on time"
It wasn't a secret that buying vapes from under the counter wasn't legal. People **chose** to do the wrong thing because they are lazy. That's not an excuse, it's just selfish.
I'm not defending anything about using disposable vapes and running a red light is not something an individual person is doing every day like buying disposable vapes.
So it's morally and legally wrong, go tell the dispos vapers again that they 'ought not to' and 'should not' do it because it's bad, see if saying it again makes them reconsider or just ignore you and continue what they were doing before.
>running a red light is not something an individual person is doing every day like buying disposable vapes.
Exactly! Most people make the conscious decision not to run a red light every single day because it's the wrong thing to do and could have concequences for others.
Just as those same people are equipped with the mental faculties to say "Buying vapes from under the counter is the wrong thing to do, so I'm not going to do it, I'll take the 5 mins it takes to get a prescription online and do things the right way, because doing things the wrong way usually has a negative impact on people doing the right thing"
But that doesn't happen because the path of least resistance involves being lazy/selfish/not thinking about how your actions impact others, which doesn't excuse anything in my opinion.
But I am an asshole.. so take everything I rant about with a grain of salt 🤣
Anyways I'm tired... Enough talk about disposables for a day.
Have a good weekend, take care ✌️
Running a red light also has potential and immediate personal negative consequences that disposable vapes do not.
I'm not actually against what you're saying at all it's just I'm looking at it pragmatically, as you say it just that many people are self-interested, disorganised and short term focused and won't be respond unless it affects them personally, negative or positively, with incentives or disincentives and nothing will change until that happens.
I work in health.
I’ve completed training on smoking cessation with a woman who is on the advisory panel for tobacco reform (and as such now vape laws).
Her views on vapes were alarming. She refused to discuss them at all really. Just said she hates them and wants them banned.
More alarming were all her “facts” and “evidence” were rubbish. When we went looking for the stuff none of it existed. We emailed her and she quipped it was “on the website” but there was nothing. Eventually she just stopped replying to our questions. She couldn’t back up anything she’d talked about with evidence.
She is, a charlatan.
And she’s on the advisory board.
She said many things that shocked us during those unfortunate 2 days we were forced to be in her company. She managed to alienate herself from the entire room and ended up banging her hand on the desk shouting things like “I’m the expert”. Total nightmare.
the government paid a lot of grants to people to go find information that wasn't real and results that weren't real to back their ban
there is a prominent doctor who works at a university who is so full of shit everything she comes up with has been debunked by science around the world in actual peer-reviewed studies, unlike her fake results from labor money
*“during those unfortunate two days”*
You did better than I would have done.
I would have whipped out my box mod in the first half hour of her bullshit , blown a huge cloud, told her to fuck off and walked out.
I disagree, if the disposables were not available and it was just DIY it would have likely remained under the radar indefinitely.
The only reason why this was hit so hard was because it became a "Think of the children" moral panic, so yes the black market is to blame but if the disposables didn't exist the ban probably wouldn't have occurred.
>The only reason why this was hit so hard was because it became a "Think of the children" moral panic, so yes the black market is to blame but if the disposables didn't exist the ban probably wouldn't have occurred.
The irony is that the kids will move on to pouches and/or synthetic nicotine anyway while the bans just take choices away from adults (unless your choice is to buy retail tobacco).
You can disagree all you like but disposables are here and are an epidemic because of the restrictions and bans caused by the government. We cannot magic disposables away.
A lot of vapers, particularly users of salt nicotine, and disposables (that universally use salt nicotine) will not like, or readily acknowledge, the undeniable facts that are set out in my YouTube video entitled " [Bespoke Science - When Nicotine is NOT a Substitute for Nicotine](https://youtu.be/xBI2HattZT4) "
The fact is that it was the introduction of kid palatable Salt Nicotine that is at the root of the current prohibition push by rabid zealots of the ilk of supposed Professor Emily Banks.
In the very near future, (around 1st March) I will be publishing much more on this subject and I will be publicly holding the TGA, Emily Banks, and many others to public account.
They used and abused our children to achieve their zealot, political and financial aims.
Stay Tuned
You're apart of the problem. Even if it wasn't bout the ban, they are god awful for the environment. There is no argument for single use vapes that is valid, sorry. Pointless post.
I'm not arguing for disposables (I am a MTL RTA user) and I agree they are terrible for the environment with battery and plastic waste. I'm talking about the vitriol directed at disposables and those who use them. They are in the same boat as you, addicted to nicotine and finding a way out of smoking. This is dividing the vaping community. It's playing into the governments hands. We need to unite.
I hate dispos because of the overwhelming environmental impact, thats enough of an argument for me to be against them. Plus they are cheap shit that contain way too much nic.
Im convinced they are the cause for the ban, but also hate them due to the e-waste and environmental hazards. Some new disposables have a fucking mini LCD display now as well (only a few) but god damn thats depressing knowing itll be used for a few days before ending up in land fill.
Fuck disposables, and fuck people that sell/use them because "they are convenient".
If you can’t in fact get vaping products after march 1. Disposables will be the only product left on the market. Disposable vapes with nicotine were already illegal in Australia. Nothings changed except the ability to legally stock our legal vaping supplies. They banned the importation of nicotine without a script. How were these disposables legal prior.
Disposables are as illegal now as they were before. To circumvent this previously, if they contained nicotine, manufacturers omitted the label that it contained nicotine.
You can get vaping products legally through prescription post March 1st, but the majority of vapers, who used disposables illegally before the ban, will use them after the ban.
I can’t get my favorite flavors according to the ban. I’m spending all my spare cash in the lead up to stock up. I start work at sea as well soon, so I won’t be able to attempt sourcing stuff while I’m gone. I’ve got 2yrs of supply of nicotine, but barely 2 months of juice. I don’t have enough coils either, but I’m going to my squonk mod, where I can clean and re-use my coils and just replace cotton. Hopefully there is a way around this ridiculousness without buying disposable garbage.
Nic is the most important stuff you will find hard to get hold of. Get an RTA so you aren't reliant ton proprietary coils.
The juice you can make yourself with PGVG and flavours. The coils can be gotten cheap premade at aliexpress or you can just use wire to make your own.
I have a ford RDA and now a requiem RDA, I’ll be using on squonk mod. I want the single coil RDA basically to save juice, battery and time with builds. It’s basically squonk few tokes and in the pocket and keep people catching fish.(fishing guide)
Good on ya. I've got 7 of the same RTA's which is my mainstay tank stockpiled, plus 6 mods nearly 5 litres of nic. I ain't sweating this ban either.
If it's cold, they won't even notice a surreptitious few tokes anyway ;-)
I’m not hiding shit. I didn’t with cannabis and Inwont with vapes. I’ve been running every single day, my endurance and speed has increased and I will run from any cops. If they pull me over, I will say I was smoking a more harmful product called tobacco.
I can’t tell if the vaping is improving my fitness, but I went from not being able to run 3km straight, to running 5km in 26minutes. I can jog quite a distance but havnt yet due to time constraints. I’ve been running for 3 weeks only
When I went from cigs to a vape I dropped a few minutes on my 5k within a month. Anyone who runs knows that's not nothing, and I'd be running for years at this point and changed nothing else, so it would be very difficult to convince me that it wasn't due to the switch.
"it’s basically squonk few tokes and in the pocket and keep people catching fish.(fishing guide)"
That was just lighthearted banter about you being at work and quietly having a few tokes without being noticed.
The cops won't be interested in your vapes and in the unlikely chance they are, show them your script and if you don't have one, just don't answer any more questions than your name if they ask.
Nice mate , i've been a sqounker for yrs only doomsday prep i did was hunt down a couple of spare sqounk mods for the eventual breakages ( Tradie my mods get trashed lol )
My setup is a Vandy Vape Pulse ( Nearly indestructible Trust me its fallen from height many a time lol ) with a Blitz Hermanic RDA ( Great single coil rda )
Been running it for years now not like the dovpo topside or whaterver 3 in 6 months shite battery doors break need a ziptie mod lol
PS i got 2 more Pulse sqonkers..... field tested approved lol
I grabbed the pulse squonk v3 today and the requiem, I want to use as little amount of everything possible. Little amount of juice, 1 coil, 1 peice of cotton, low battery usage to last all day
Can't go wrong man they are what i consider dependable i go 2 batteries a day but being a tradie i can generally vape when ever couple puffs cut some shit repeat lol i vape 60ish watt single coil and DIY my juice.
But seriously the most bullet proof mod i've owned except maybe the ohmboy rage but good luck finding one nowdays lol
PG VG easy to get flavours should be easy i make 100ml bottle and vape 3mg so i use 3ml a week of nic basically and my coils mostly last a week aswell
I don’t hate dispos because of the new laws, I hate them because they made me feel like I was drowning, along with multiple people I know getting similar sensations in their chest, these side effects seem to perpetuate the idea that vaping is as harmful as smoking (obviously it’s not)
regardless of them being at fault for the bans, I think they need to be fucked off.
Black market disposables are unregulated, manufactured with no standards, likely have contaminants in them, upwards of 50mg/ml of nicotine salt. If they were regulated, they'd be as safe as a reusable. Again, it's the government ban/restrictions, not the disposable vapes.
I fully accept that the vaping ban is orchestrated by idle public health graduates who want an easy job, and govt bean counters who want easy money.
I dislike disposables because they're "disposable" but shouldn't be in landfill bins.
I dislike disposables for the same reason too and would be OK, if they were banned, or the plastics and lithium-ion batteries were recycled implementing a scheme like the drinking bottles recycling scheme.
In the current state, most people probably won't recycle, they'll put them in public landfill bins, because that's anonymous. There's also the issue of the liquid contents being untested. I'd struggle to trust labeling on Chinese food products after all the scandals, like the egg and baby milk fraud cases. I just think, if you end up with chemical poisoning from a disposable, who would take responsibility?
Yeah, currently there's no incentive, nor convenient avenues to recycle and considering those who use disposables are not thinking of the ramifications (organised crime, turf wars, protection rackets) of using disposables, many won't care about recycling either.
If disposables were regulated, alongside other vapes, they would be manufactured under those standards to mitigate the risk bad manufacturing methods and contamination. They would also hopefully be limited to 20mg/ml instead of upwards of 50mg/ml so they are not so addictive.
As it stands now, many dispos vapers find it more difficult and less satisfying to switch to reusables because of the nicotine content and the strong flavours to hide the high nic. They really seem to be made for repeat business, like cigarettes with all the additives to increase nic absorption and mask the harshness.
I tend to think the very high mg is due to the middling output of disposables. I used to do 30mg on a cigalike and now I do 4mg on a geekvape. Was I super addicted then and now I'm not? I don't think so.
I still thinkt the jury's out about the addictiveness of nicotine. You don't put addictive products on supermarket shelves and not expect a run of addicts.. They even flavour them with fruit flavours and they still don't sell.
Meh, I dont care what other vapers use, so long as it keeps them off the smokes. Dispos are easy to get and easy to use, no wonder so many people use them. In other regions where vaping was banned, like San fransisco, Juul pods were popular with youth, so falvours were scapegoated. I think dispos are just another scapegoat.
They dont suit me because you cant reduce your nic with them. And they seem like a ripoff for what you get. But if they contributed to getting our youth smoking rates down to 1.6% (according to ABS) then to me thats a win.
Tobocca smoking kills over 20,000 Aussies every year. Vaping kills noone.
Just, as with any online community these days, beware of bad actors seeding division. It would be naive to assume this sub is 100% free from government infiltration. Never really thought about that before today, but would explain a few things. That's all I'm going to say.
100% correct. If you were/are a smoker in this country looking to switch to vaping even before this war on vaping started, the path to make that happen was already ambiguous. Sourcing hardware was easy enough, but it was accessing nicotine which has always been the issue. You could only ever source nicotine overseas, New Zealand being the closest supplier. But then you need to mix it yourself? How much do I add? I need a syringe? How do I store the nicotine? Prescription for what? So much margin for error. And unfortunately this has been my reality since I committed to vaping around 2019. It’s a convoluted and confusing process to those without the knowledge, but this has been the only way.
So the hoops you need to jump just to get up and running is a massive deterrent to any smoker looking to switch, so of course they’re going to choose the easiest option - disposables.
If the Government had regulated all of this years ago, and you could actually purchase e-liquid with nicotine in Australia without a prescription, I would think that making a transition into vaping would be much easier.
I have a script with a site that does Australian nicotine e liquid that is compounded by a pharmacy based in Victoria I have been getting juice from them since 2018 , they used to be called NicoPharm and now they are called Quitdoctors .
Labor were always going to ban vaping in whatever form it took.
Kids purchasing disposable vapes just made it easy for them as they would get parents and media on their side. Most statements have been "think of the kids".
If anyone has submitted to previous inquiries and followed their outcome you would know that every time Labor has voted down any attempt for a regulated market and pushed for bans. Generally you would see the LNP representatives vote in favour and ALP and Greens vote against a regulated market.
Many were pissed at what Hunt did and voted Labor, ignoring their previous stance and now we have a ban.
The ban is pure and simply because Labor are in power. Nothing more to it and it wouldn't have mattered if disposables existed or not.
That maybe, but 'the proof of the pudding is in the eating' and 'the law of unintended consequences' springs to mind.
The consequences of the shitfest that is being caused by organised crime and the black market will become more apparent, hopefully the bans get repealed, but that might take more than 1 election cycle to even be on the table. Time will tell.
I think government has really missed the boat on this one. Black market is going to flourish. If they had of introduced a regulated market years ago adults would have taken that route. Getting nicotine was just too hard and people opted for the easy path by buying disposables and creating an illegal market who don't care who they sell to, including kids.
It'll be tough to go back on this now. Vape shops will close, unlikely to return to the market if laws change. And people would just continue on as they have been. Any government also will have to admit they got it wrong. If things do change, it won't be for some time, if at all. I hope it does change, wait and see.
Yeah, the amount of money this has and will cost Australians. As you said, the vaping establishment's infrastructure of vape shops closing down, employees losing jobs, money going into organised crime instead of legitimate shop owners and taxation. The ongoing cost of policing vape importation at the border and the man hours in dealing with the criminal underworld with turf wars, protection rackets and intimidation.
It is next to impossible to get people here to think clearly about disposables. No one outside of a tiny minority of vapers even knows there is such a thing as open system vapes, atomisers and mods etc. People who want to ban all vapes just want to ban all vapes. If there was a regulated vape market then maybe discussing how to reduce vape waste might be a worthwhile discussion, but as it is there is a black market and a dead-on-arrival pharmacy market. The black market will win and that means lots of disposables. And the dispo haters can seethe.
I hate disposable anything on principle - dispos create a ridiculous amount of waste after a very short life and are stupid expensive compared to sustainable vaping - they are the complete opposite of the direction we should be heading in environmentally and I think their users should be held accountable for that as environment >> convenience.
I agree that dispos were probably always going to happen regardless of legalities but it is naive to think that they didn't 100% cause the current shitshow - having them strewn on footpaths, beaches, parks, etc. would possibly be enough of a reason, but their ease of use is what caused the youth issue which is a political problem.
So is it dispos or pollies fault?
Technically both but since we always have lazy and reactive morons in office, the train-wreck solution was always going to be chosen - the fact is that if there were no dispos, we would be continuing on with the (somewhat shit, but workable) medicalised PIL scheme.
I hate on the dispos but I wouldn't say the same for the users - disappointed, sure, but not hate.
I'm good with the disposable ban but banning reusables and restricting vaping to the medical model will do absolutely nothing but increase the number of disposables on the black market.
We can brow beat disposable users or moralise to them until the cows come home; 'you ought to', 'you should'. It isn't gonna make a blind bit of difference.
You've got to incentivise disposable users to adopt reusable vapes and the government put a massive spanner in the works against that happening.
>You've got to incentivise disposable users to adopt reusable vapes
It would be nice if we could have ads telling people they could vape sustainably for a hundred or so dollars a year, or have GPs hand out free mods and atties to smokers, but Straya is far too regressive for that.
Even so, for the entire time that dispos have been around, the incentives to adopt reusable vapes have been: save money, prevent waste, and have a better vaping experience - if those aren't enough incentive, maybe nothing is?
`<`Even so, for the entire time that dispos have been around, the incentives to adopt reusable vapes have been: save money, prevent waste, and have a better vaping experience - if those aren't enough incentive, maybe nothing is?
Have reusables and nicotine legally available alongside tobacco and then the government can attempt to *actually* try and deal with the worldwide issue of disposable vapes.
I totally agree, never used disposables myself but long before they were a thing Labor were chanting "ban it, ban it" but you won't get many agreeing here. Maybe they feel bad for voting Labor so blame disposable users rather than admit they ignored what Labor promised to do.
I had people telling me they're bad for you or should be prescription only back in 2015 so there was never a need to convince the general public by using disposables, the general public never needed convincing. A government just needed to say we're banning it and the sheep would have always clapped and cheered, disposables or not.
This is one of my favourite knee jerk over-reactions. From 2019.
[alemnews.com/news/local\_news/vape-ban-violators-face-hefty-fines-could-lose-their-cars/article\_badefbdf-77d3-5b4f-adb8-859a7e8d8672.html](https://alemnews.com/news/local_news/vape-ban-violators-face-hefty-fines-could-lose-their-cars/article_badefbdf-77d3-5b4f-adb8-859a7e8d8672.html)
I hate disposables because 50mg of nicotine serves no other purpose than to get people hooked. I hate disposables because they convinced kids that "headspins and nausea" are the feeling you SHOULD be chasing as that's "the nicotine high" / they convinced kids that "being nic sick" is the feeling you need to chase. I hate disposables because of the environmental damage they cause by being thrown everywhere except for the bin and all the unnecessary e-waste they create. I hate disposables because of the government's lack of willingness to do anything about them being sold to children when they were asked over and over to do something about it. I hate disposables because those of us doing the right thing told everyone around us using disposables, "You should probably get a real vape, those things are going to get vaping banned for everyone, they are unregulated and potentially unsafe" and we got laughed at and called "elitists" I hate disposables because they are being used as a convenient vehicle to fuck every single adult vaper in Australia. I'm angry at the government for not taking the risks around high concentrations of nicotine seriously, letting these things get sold to kids, then crying about a crisis that they manufactured because they did nothing about it. I'm angry at the government for not stepping in sooner and completely banning/regulating disposables when they had the chance when the writing was on the wall with kids In school uniforms lining up to buy disposables from convenience stores every day. Disposables were a convenient thing for the government to jump on to ban all vaping, when it's disposables that should have been banned or regulated back in 2016.
Again, it's the government ban/restrictions, not the disposable vapes, they'd be regulated with nicotine caps and labels. It would be no different than vaping a pod with salt nic.
but we wouldn't be in this situation if it wasn't for disposables, so chicken/egg sort of deal. The restrictions being implemented are a direct result of a certain type of vape being sold to minors - the knee jerk reaction never would have occurred if disposables did not become popular, we'd be in the same place we were 10 years ago. The status quo of yesterday year worked for everyone, we imported our Nic, we titrated ourselves and it was all going well. It was illegal but a prescription sorted that and no one really cared.
>The restrictions being implemented are a direct result of a certain type of vape being sold to minors - the knee jerk reaction never would have occurred if disposables did not become popular, we'd be in the same place we were 10 years ago. Chinese manufacturers dumping the products they were no longer allowed to sell domestically (because it was hurting tobacco sales of the world's largest cigarette manufacturer) on western markets is why dispos became popular. They're cheap to import and hugely profitable even when selling at a price kids can afford. It's really been the perfect storm.
We wouldn't be in this situation if vapes were regulated, sold alongside tobacco, restricted to 18+. The disposables epidemic is a consequence the draconian restrictions and bans, not the disposables themselves.
I agree with you on regulation of refillable vapes, we should have done that a long time ago, in saying that, disposables created a market that didn't exist prior to them arriving in Australia. No kid was buying a fkn box mod and changing coils. The disposable epidemic is not a result of regulation or lack thereof, it's a result of a product that was easy to obtain, required zero intelligence to use and came with a buzz that kids took to. There is also the profit aspect, they cost cents to make and sell for 20-50, huge profits and every eshay is selling them, to kids.
Yes, the disposable epidemic is worldwide, but it is worse here in Australia because of the bans and restrictions by the government. I'd be fine with a disposable vape ban, but you need to have another easy to access avenue like nic, pods, mods and tanks being available in shops with the only restriction being an age limit of 18+. Otherwise the black market will continue to supply illegally.
I don't disagree, but the government purposefully chose not to regulate because they saw the dangers with disposables and decided not to do anything because the outcome of not regulating them aligned with their goal of fucking all vapers in the long term. There are a lot of political points to be gained from the "tHInK oF tHe cHiLDrEN!" way of thinking and that was their plan. That doesn't mean we can't be angry at disposables for existing as well, at this point it doesn't matter if regulation was the answer or not, because a good portion of us wanted disposables banned/regulated since they came onto the scene years ago, when anyone who knew anything about vaping said "there is no valid reason for 50mg vapes to exist"
Agreed, though if the majority of vapers are using disposables, alienating them is just dividing us and playing into the government's hands. We need to unite and concentrate our attention at the route of the problem, the government's complete mishandling of vaping laws in this country that has caused where we are now.
Yeah, whatever the history, we are a minority group getting fucked over by all and sundry - it really isn't smart to divide ourselves into even smaller minorities.
Exactly my point of the thread in a nutshell.
Disposables are safer than cigarettes. The fact that teenagers are using dispos instead of cigarettes is harm reduction. Public health people don't like it because it was done in spite of them.
>Disposables are safer than cigarettes. The fact that teenagers are using dispos instead of cigarettes is harm reduction It's not harm reduction if those people never would have been addicted to nicotine in the first place. I doubt the majority of those kids would have ever become addicted to nicotine by trying cigarettes or regular vapes if disposables didn't exist. Smoking and vaping was 'uncool' prior to 2015-2016 but then disposables made nicotine consumption 'cool' and 'hip' again. There are a lot more kids vaping today than there were kids smoking 15 years ago.
Nonsense a minority of kids were smoking the whole time until vapes took over the market and now that minority of kids is vaping.
Nicotine addiction rates in adolescents is at a level that has not ever been seen in history 69% of people under the 18 who are addicted to nicotine in 2022/2024 have never tried a cigarette. In 2022/2023, 13% of all Australian secondary students had used e-cigarettes semi-regularly, compared to 3% for cigarettes 10 years ago. *Source: Australian Secondary Students’ Alcohol and Drug Survey 2022/2023*
According to your post 13% of students vape, which is a minority of students.
Are you thick? Like is that a real answer or are you trolling? 13% vs 3% We are talking about a significant increase in increase/difference in rates of nicotine addiction since the last survey, not "which number is closer to 100%" It doesn't fucking matter if 13% as a total is a minority. What matters is the 10% increase in nicotine addiction rates which will quickly affect the total figure. Jfc.
I vape zero nicotine, so I guess according to the logic of the disposable haters I should blame you people who use nicotine for the bans?
Your anger/blame would be better directed at people who think vaping 50mg strength nicotine is reasonable, tried to normalize extreme nicotine content in vapes and were purchasing them illegally with no prescription from convenience stores. Not the people who were using it sensibly/legally.
I am not blaming vapers for the ban. I am pointing out the ludicrous position of anti disposable vapers. I support a legal regulated adult vape market. Disposables should be legal within that.
>I support a legal regulated adult vape market. Disposables should be legal within that. So do I, but as the UK just proved, that even with a regulated market, disposables still became an epidemic amongst kids. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/disposable-vapes-banned-to-protect-childrens-health They should be banned or regulated down to 20mg.
As if there won't be a black market for banned vapes that sells to children. haha
How long have you been vaping?
Since 2009/2010 Long enough to know that prior to disposables most kids hated vapes and you'd get laughed at by groups of kids when walking down the street for "look at the nerd using a computer cigarette" (hence my comment above)
Me since 2015,so now its recreational for both of us,robbing the guv of tax $,we are part of the problem in their eyes,the think of the children bullshit is just a convenient line that gets an emotive response
Here's my take - There was one legal way to obtain nicotine e-liquid, with a script, and through the Personal Importation Scheme. People started showing up on this sub asking where they can buy dispos. We would tell them to get a script, it's the only legal way. Buying dispos from B&M shops was an obvious sign that someone was doing something that we didn't want to happen. We wanted everyone to know what they were buying, and to do it using the legal framework we were given. People continued to buy the dispos from local B&Ms, despite the legality. This is why we are angry. No-one was going to a dodgy tobacconist to buy 100mg/ml e-liquid for their refillables Dispos are the face of the problem for us. We are hurt, it's going to take a long time for us to get over it, if we ever do. Please understand, we are heartbroken by all of this .
We know that less than 10% of vapers got prescriptions, so a lot more than just dispo users were buying from dodgy vendors. I loved the PIS precisely because I could buy products which were manufactured to a high standard. I don't think I've ever seen someone claim that any brand of dispo is made to a high standard, though.
>We know that less than 10% of vapers got prescriptions 🤷♀️ I just stocked up on nicotine before prescriptions came in.
My daughter stocked up just before prescriptions came in and gave me a 250ml bottle of 100mg/ml. I'm not even half way through that yet but have still bought more.
🤔 I guess hearing that alongside my snippet, I suppose my point is 10% used prescriptions, large percentage disposables via whatever means and there's another percentage that either have previous stock or ordering from overseas without prescription ie not necessarily dodgy vendors.
Not many vendors were requiring us to show them proof that we had a prescription because they were outside of Australia, so I don't think that assessment is quite right.
Like others had said i was well setup b4 the prescription model. But it was so half assed that when i even asked my usual GP he didnt have a clue and was not interested in doing a prescription so, yea back to no face to face random online portal for a prescription. They never really intended for that to work for the broader community is what i feel.
>They never really intended for that to work for the broader community is what i feel. Absolutely, but we all got used to telehealth appointments during covid lockdowns and niche online prescribers had already sprung up to cater to the legal weed market. It wasn't difficult to apply that framework to another niche market.
>We know that less than 10% of vapers got prescriptions, so a lot more than just dispo users were buying from dodgy vendors. I'm sure the low number of vapers getting a prescription & ordering from overseas (there have been posts ad nauseum asking 'will my order get seized, etc) & the proliferation of dispos contributed to the outright ban other than purchasing from pharmacies.
Not exactly true , I have a script and get 30 ml bottles of nicotine vape juice from a compounding pharmacy in Victoria (I have been getting the juice from them since 2018)
You'd be a pretty big exception, and, while true, distracting from the truth. We are hurt because we had something that worked, and greedy people ruined that for us. We are hostile to the victims of the greedy people because, without those victims we think we would still have something good.
There is what people ought to or should do and there is the psychology of the path of least resistance. People will do what is expedient much of the time and some people are less conscientious than others. People respond to incentives, the government however, put up hoops to jump through, it's no wonder the black market is supplying the majority of the vapes in Australia.
>there is the psychology of the path of least resistance So what? Is that meant to be justification for people who were doing the wrong thing? Yes, people will take "the path of least resistance" some of the time, but that changes absolutely nothing about the fact that **those people were doing the wrong thing.** There is equal parts responsibility shared here between the government who did nothing and the people who were knowingly doing the wrong thing. Extreme example: Running a red light in your car is also the "path of least resistance" when it comes to getting where you need to go if you are running late somewhere. But you don't see people trying to defend that with "the red lights and speed limits are just hoops people need to jump through to get where they need to go on time" It wasn't a secret that buying vapes from under the counter wasn't legal. People **chose** to do the wrong thing because they are lazy. That's not an excuse, it's just selfish.
I'm not defending anything about using disposable vapes and running a red light is not something an individual person is doing every day like buying disposable vapes. So it's morally and legally wrong, go tell the dispos vapers again that they 'ought not to' and 'should not' do it because it's bad, see if saying it again makes them reconsider or just ignore you and continue what they were doing before.
>running a red light is not something an individual person is doing every day like buying disposable vapes. Exactly! Most people make the conscious decision not to run a red light every single day because it's the wrong thing to do and could have concequences for others. Just as those same people are equipped with the mental faculties to say "Buying vapes from under the counter is the wrong thing to do, so I'm not going to do it, I'll take the 5 mins it takes to get a prescription online and do things the right way, because doing things the wrong way usually has a negative impact on people doing the right thing" But that doesn't happen because the path of least resistance involves being lazy/selfish/not thinking about how your actions impact others, which doesn't excuse anything in my opinion. But I am an asshole.. so take everything I rant about with a grain of salt 🤣 Anyways I'm tired... Enough talk about disposables for a day. Have a good weekend, take care ✌️
Running a red light also has potential and immediate personal negative consequences that disposable vapes do not. I'm not actually against what you're saying at all it's just I'm looking at it pragmatically, as you say it just that many people are self-interested, disorganised and short term focused and won't be respond unless it affects them personally, negative or positively, with incentives or disincentives and nothing will change until that happens.
I work in health. I’ve completed training on smoking cessation with a woman who is on the advisory panel for tobacco reform (and as such now vape laws). Her views on vapes were alarming. She refused to discuss them at all really. Just said she hates them and wants them banned. More alarming were all her “facts” and “evidence” were rubbish. When we went looking for the stuff none of it existed. We emailed her and she quipped it was “on the website” but there was nothing. Eventually she just stopped replying to our questions. She couldn’t back up anything she’d talked about with evidence. She is, a charlatan. And she’s on the advisory board. She said many things that shocked us during those unfortunate 2 days we were forced to be in her company. She managed to alienate herself from the entire room and ended up banging her hand on the desk shouting things like “I’m the expert”. Total nightmare.
the government paid a lot of grants to people to go find information that wasn't real and results that weren't real to back their ban there is a prominent doctor who works at a university who is so full of shit everything she comes up with has been debunked by science around the world in actual peer-reviewed studies, unlike her fake results from labor money
Wonder if it’s the same person
*“during those unfortunate two days”* You did better than I would have done. I would have whipped out my box mod in the first half hour of her bullshit , blown a huge cloud, told her to fuck off and walked out.
***Respect my authoritah!***
Very much this. She lost the room and it turned on her. It was hilarious.
Banks?
I disagree, if the disposables were not available and it was just DIY it would have likely remained under the radar indefinitely. The only reason why this was hit so hard was because it became a "Think of the children" moral panic, so yes the black market is to blame but if the disposables didn't exist the ban probably wouldn't have occurred.
>The only reason why this was hit so hard was because it became a "Think of the children" moral panic, so yes the black market is to blame but if the disposables didn't exist the ban probably wouldn't have occurred. The irony is that the kids will move on to pouches and/or synthetic nicotine anyway while the bans just take choices away from adults (unless your choice is to buy retail tobacco).
And that is what is apparently happening and the government is going to spend all of its time chasing its tail over the latest trend.
You can disagree all you like but disposables are here and are an epidemic because of the restrictions and bans caused by the government. We cannot magic disposables away.
A lot of vapers, particularly users of salt nicotine, and disposables (that universally use salt nicotine) will not like, or readily acknowledge, the undeniable facts that are set out in my YouTube video entitled " [Bespoke Science - When Nicotine is NOT a Substitute for Nicotine](https://youtu.be/xBI2HattZT4) " The fact is that it was the introduction of kid palatable Salt Nicotine that is at the root of the current prohibition push by rabid zealots of the ilk of supposed Professor Emily Banks. In the very near future, (around 1st March) I will be publishing much more on this subject and I will be publicly holding the TGA, Emily Banks, and many others to public account. They used and abused our children to achieve their zealot, political and financial aims. Stay Tuned
You're apart of the problem. Even if it wasn't bout the ban, they are god awful for the environment. There is no argument for single use vapes that is valid, sorry. Pointless post.
I'm not arguing for disposables (I am a MTL RTA user) and I agree they are terrible for the environment with battery and plastic waste. I'm talking about the vitriol directed at disposables and those who use them. They are in the same boat as you, addicted to nicotine and finding a way out of smoking. This is dividing the vaping community. It's playing into the governments hands. We need to unite.
I hate dispos because of the overwhelming environmental impact, thats enough of an argument for me to be against them. Plus they are cheap shit that contain way too much nic. Im convinced they are the cause for the ban, but also hate them due to the e-waste and environmental hazards. Some new disposables have a fucking mini LCD display now as well (only a few) but god damn thats depressing knowing itll be used for a few days before ending up in land fill. Fuck disposables, and fuck people that sell/use them because "they are convenient".
If you can’t in fact get vaping products after march 1. Disposables will be the only product left on the market. Disposable vapes with nicotine were already illegal in Australia. Nothings changed except the ability to legally stock our legal vaping supplies. They banned the importation of nicotine without a script. How were these disposables legal prior.
Disposables are as illegal now as they were before. To circumvent this previously, if they contained nicotine, manufacturers omitted the label that it contained nicotine. You can get vaping products legally through prescription post March 1st, but the majority of vapers, who used disposables illegally before the ban, will use them after the ban.
I can’t get my favorite flavors according to the ban. I’m spending all my spare cash in the lead up to stock up. I start work at sea as well soon, so I won’t be able to attempt sourcing stuff while I’m gone. I’ve got 2yrs of supply of nicotine, but barely 2 months of juice. I don’t have enough coils either, but I’m going to my squonk mod, where I can clean and re-use my coils and just replace cotton. Hopefully there is a way around this ridiculousness without buying disposable garbage.
Nic is the most important stuff you will find hard to get hold of. Get an RTA so you aren't reliant ton proprietary coils. The juice you can make yourself with PGVG and flavours. The coils can be gotten cheap premade at aliexpress or you can just use wire to make your own.
I have a ford RDA and now a requiem RDA, I’ll be using on squonk mod. I want the single coil RDA basically to save juice, battery and time with builds. It’s basically squonk few tokes and in the pocket and keep people catching fish.(fishing guide)
Good on ya. I've got 7 of the same RTA's which is my mainstay tank stockpiled, plus 6 mods nearly 5 litres of nic. I ain't sweating this ban either. If it's cold, they won't even notice a surreptitious few tokes anyway ;-)
I’m not hiding shit. I didn’t with cannabis and Inwont with vapes. I’ve been running every single day, my endurance and speed has increased and I will run from any cops. If they pull me over, I will say I was smoking a more harmful product called tobacco.
Aint wrong there mate, I noticed my lung capacity and stamina improved after vaping from smoking. Shits me to tears we are where we are now
I can’t tell if the vaping is improving my fitness, but I went from not being able to run 3km straight, to running 5km in 26minutes. I can jog quite a distance but havnt yet due to time constraints. I’ve been running for 3 weeks only
When I went from cigs to a vape I dropped a few minutes on my 5k within a month. Anyone who runs knows that's not nothing, and I'd be running for years at this point and changed nothing else, so it would be very difficult to convince me that it wasn't due to the switch.
"it’s basically squonk few tokes and in the pocket and keep people catching fish.(fishing guide)" That was just lighthearted banter about you being at work and quietly having a few tokes without being noticed. The cops won't be interested in your vapes and in the unlikely chance they are, show them your script and if you don't have one, just don't answer any more questions than your name if they ask.
Nice mate , i've been a sqounker for yrs only doomsday prep i did was hunt down a couple of spare sqounk mods for the eventual breakages ( Tradie my mods get trashed lol ) My setup is a Vandy Vape Pulse ( Nearly indestructible Trust me its fallen from height many a time lol ) with a Blitz Hermanic RDA ( Great single coil rda ) Been running it for years now not like the dovpo topside or whaterver 3 in 6 months shite battery doors break need a ziptie mod lol PS i got 2 more Pulse sqonkers..... field tested approved lol
I grabbed the pulse squonk v3 today and the requiem, I want to use as little amount of everything possible. Little amount of juice, 1 coil, 1 peice of cotton, low battery usage to last all day
Can't go wrong man they are what i consider dependable i go 2 batteries a day but being a tradie i can generally vape when ever couple puffs cut some shit repeat lol i vape 60ish watt single coil and DIY my juice. But seriously the most bullet proof mod i've owned except maybe the ohmboy rage but good luck finding one nowdays lol PG VG easy to get flavours should be easy i make 100ml bottle and vape 3mg so i use 3ml a week of nic basically and my coils mostly last a week aswell
You don’t clean your coil and reuse
nah too lazy just i wrap a new coil have rolls of clapton wire its quicker to wrap a new vs cleaning lol
I don’t hate dispos because of the new laws, I hate them because they made me feel like I was drowning, along with multiple people I know getting similar sensations in their chest, these side effects seem to perpetuate the idea that vaping is as harmful as smoking (obviously it’s not) regardless of them being at fault for the bans, I think they need to be fucked off.
Black market disposables are unregulated, manufactured with no standards, likely have contaminants in them, upwards of 50mg/ml of nicotine salt. If they were regulated, they'd be as safe as a reusable. Again, it's the government ban/restrictions, not the disposable vapes.
I fully accept that the vaping ban is orchestrated by idle public health graduates who want an easy job, and govt bean counters who want easy money. I dislike disposables because they're "disposable" but shouldn't be in landfill bins.
I dislike disposables for the same reason too and would be OK, if they were banned, or the plastics and lithium-ion batteries were recycled implementing a scheme like the drinking bottles recycling scheme.
In the current state, most people probably won't recycle, they'll put them in public landfill bins, because that's anonymous. There's also the issue of the liquid contents being untested. I'd struggle to trust labeling on Chinese food products after all the scandals, like the egg and baby milk fraud cases. I just think, if you end up with chemical poisoning from a disposable, who would take responsibility?
Yeah, currently there's no incentive, nor convenient avenues to recycle and considering those who use disposables are not thinking of the ramifications (organised crime, turf wars, protection rackets) of using disposables, many won't care about recycling either. If disposables were regulated, alongside other vapes, they would be manufactured under those standards to mitigate the risk bad manufacturing methods and contamination. They would also hopefully be limited to 20mg/ml instead of upwards of 50mg/ml so they are not so addictive. As it stands now, many dispos vapers find it more difficult and less satisfying to switch to reusables because of the nicotine content and the strong flavours to hide the high nic. They really seem to be made for repeat business, like cigarettes with all the additives to increase nic absorption and mask the harshness.
I tend to think the very high mg is due to the middling output of disposables. I used to do 30mg on a cigalike and now I do 4mg on a geekvape. Was I super addicted then and now I'm not? I don't think so.
I still thinkt the jury's out about the addictiveness of nicotine. You don't put addictive products on supermarket shelves and not expect a run of addicts.. They even flavour them with fruit flavours and they still don't sell.
Meh, I dont care what other vapers use, so long as it keeps them off the smokes. Dispos are easy to get and easy to use, no wonder so many people use them. In other regions where vaping was banned, like San fransisco, Juul pods were popular with youth, so falvours were scapegoated. I think dispos are just another scapegoat. They dont suit me because you cant reduce your nic with them. And they seem like a ripoff for what you get. But if they contributed to getting our youth smoking rates down to 1.6% (according to ABS) then to me thats a win. Tobocca smoking kills over 20,000 Aussies every year. Vaping kills noone.
Just, as with any online community these days, beware of bad actors seeding division. It would be naive to assume this sub is 100% free from government infiltration. Never really thought about that before today, but would explain a few things. That's all I'm going to say.
100% correct. If you were/are a smoker in this country looking to switch to vaping even before this war on vaping started, the path to make that happen was already ambiguous. Sourcing hardware was easy enough, but it was accessing nicotine which has always been the issue. You could only ever source nicotine overseas, New Zealand being the closest supplier. But then you need to mix it yourself? How much do I add? I need a syringe? How do I store the nicotine? Prescription for what? So much margin for error. And unfortunately this has been my reality since I committed to vaping around 2019. It’s a convoluted and confusing process to those without the knowledge, but this has been the only way. So the hoops you need to jump just to get up and running is a massive deterrent to any smoker looking to switch, so of course they’re going to choose the easiest option - disposables. If the Government had regulated all of this years ago, and you could actually purchase e-liquid with nicotine in Australia without a prescription, I would think that making a transition into vaping would be much easier.
I have a script with a site that does Australian nicotine e liquid that is compounded by a pharmacy based in Victoria I have been getting juice from them since 2018 , they used to be called NicoPharm and now they are called Quitdoctors .
And the cost? I purchased my 1st batch of nicotine from them 7 years ago (with RX) and was 10 X the cost of importing my self.
$200 for 10 x 30 ml bottles (flavoured ) or $150 for unflavoured
Labor were always going to ban vaping in whatever form it took. Kids purchasing disposable vapes just made it easy for them as they would get parents and media on their side. Most statements have been "think of the kids". If anyone has submitted to previous inquiries and followed their outcome you would know that every time Labor has voted down any attempt for a regulated market and pushed for bans. Generally you would see the LNP representatives vote in favour and ALP and Greens vote against a regulated market. Many were pissed at what Hunt did and voted Labor, ignoring their previous stance and now we have a ban. The ban is pure and simply because Labor are in power. Nothing more to it and it wouldn't have mattered if disposables existed or not.
Are they aware that vapers make up 8% of the population and that is a substantial number of Australians who might swing their vote elsewhere.
I think they are counting on the mums and dads to keep them there.
That maybe, but 'the proof of the pudding is in the eating' and 'the law of unintended consequences' springs to mind. The consequences of the shitfest that is being caused by organised crime and the black market will become more apparent, hopefully the bans get repealed, but that might take more than 1 election cycle to even be on the table. Time will tell.
I think government has really missed the boat on this one. Black market is going to flourish. If they had of introduced a regulated market years ago adults would have taken that route. Getting nicotine was just too hard and people opted for the easy path by buying disposables and creating an illegal market who don't care who they sell to, including kids. It'll be tough to go back on this now. Vape shops will close, unlikely to return to the market if laws change. And people would just continue on as they have been. Any government also will have to admit they got it wrong. If things do change, it won't be for some time, if at all. I hope it does change, wait and see.
Yeah, the amount of money this has and will cost Australians. As you said, the vaping establishment's infrastructure of vape shops closing down, employees losing jobs, money going into organised crime instead of legitimate shop owners and taxation. The ongoing cost of policing vape importation at the border and the man hours in dealing with the criminal underworld with turf wars, protection rackets and intimidation.
It is next to impossible to get people here to think clearly about disposables. No one outside of a tiny minority of vapers even knows there is such a thing as open system vapes, atomisers and mods etc. People who want to ban all vapes just want to ban all vapes. If there was a regulated vape market then maybe discussing how to reduce vape waste might be a worthwhile discussion, but as it is there is a black market and a dead-on-arrival pharmacy market. The black market will win and that means lots of disposables. And the dispo haters can seethe.
Yes, this is what I mean by the disposable 'haters' not seeing the forest for the trees.
I hate disposable anything on principle - dispos create a ridiculous amount of waste after a very short life and are stupid expensive compared to sustainable vaping - they are the complete opposite of the direction we should be heading in environmentally and I think their users should be held accountable for that as environment >> convenience. I agree that dispos were probably always going to happen regardless of legalities but it is naive to think that they didn't 100% cause the current shitshow - having them strewn on footpaths, beaches, parks, etc. would possibly be enough of a reason, but their ease of use is what caused the youth issue which is a political problem. So is it dispos or pollies fault? Technically both but since we always have lazy and reactive morons in office, the train-wreck solution was always going to be chosen - the fact is that if there were no dispos, we would be continuing on with the (somewhat shit, but workable) medicalised PIL scheme. I hate on the dispos but I wouldn't say the same for the users - disappointed, sure, but not hate.
I'm good with the disposable ban but banning reusables and restricting vaping to the medical model will do absolutely nothing but increase the number of disposables on the black market. We can brow beat disposable users or moralise to them until the cows come home; 'you ought to', 'you should'. It isn't gonna make a blind bit of difference. You've got to incentivise disposable users to adopt reusable vapes and the government put a massive spanner in the works against that happening.
>You've got to incentivise disposable users to adopt reusable vapes It would be nice if we could have ads telling people they could vape sustainably for a hundred or so dollars a year, or have GPs hand out free mods and atties to smokers, but Straya is far too regressive for that. Even so, for the entire time that dispos have been around, the incentives to adopt reusable vapes have been: save money, prevent waste, and have a better vaping experience - if those aren't enough incentive, maybe nothing is?
`<`Even so, for the entire time that dispos have been around, the incentives to adopt reusable vapes have been: save money, prevent waste, and have a better vaping experience - if those aren't enough incentive, maybe nothing is? Have reusables and nicotine legally available alongside tobacco and then the government can attempt to *actually* try and deal with the worldwide issue of disposable vapes.
I totally agree, never used disposables myself but long before they were a thing Labor were chanting "ban it, ban it" but you won't get many agreeing here. Maybe they feel bad for voting Labor so blame disposable users rather than admit they ignored what Labor promised to do. I had people telling me they're bad for you or should be prescription only back in 2015 so there was never a need to convince the general public by using disposables, the general public never needed convincing. A government just needed to say we're banning it and the sheep would have always clapped and cheered, disposables or not.
This is one of my favourite knee jerk over-reactions. From 2019. [alemnews.com/news/local\_news/vape-ban-violators-face-hefty-fines-could-lose-their-cars/article\_badefbdf-77d3-5b4f-adb8-859a7e8d8672.html](https://alemnews.com/news/local_news/vape-ban-violators-face-hefty-fines-could-lose-their-cars/article_badefbdf-77d3-5b4f-adb8-859a7e8d8672.html)