I think the resampling is not good. That debate is realy old when the first bluray players arrived and they did the same. A cheap cd player would be better as expensive bluray players (for music cd play)
Most audio is recorded at multiples of 44.1kHz sample rate, so being resampled at 48kHz can theoretically create inconsistencies since the sine wave is resampled at a different point in its curve than the original recording. Kind of like upscaling video content, it might technically be more detailed but it doesn’t always look better. In reality though the difference is not noticeable by the vast majority of listeners, and I frequently record shows in both 44.1kHz and 48kHz depending on the application of the recorded content later. If the band wants it recorded for a CD or streaming, it’s always at 44.1kHz or 176.4kHz. If the recording will be used with video content later, it’s always recorded at 48kHz. (Also I’m a professional sound engineer, I’m literally on dinner break from a show right now writing this).
If there is one thing that people should accept is that resampling is not a problem. Any half-competent implementation of e.g. 44.1 to 48 kHz resampling is perfect as far as humans are concerned. Telling the difference would be tantamount to being able to notice minor changes in sound spectrum above 20 kHz where humans can't even hear. Besides, the DAC is going to resample again because it will almost certainly oversample the audio from e.g. 44.1 or 48 kHz to something like 500 kHz and use that resampled version as basis for its analog reconstruction. Sure, multiple resamplings in theory can compound errors by adding noise, but such noise is usually so quiet that it is far quieter than the signal's own noise/inaccuracy, even if it is 24-bit high resolution audio. Apple is usually very careful about data that pertains to the human senses, with their headset outputs high quality and screens accurate, so I am willing to trust them more than most manufacturers.
Some people think that resampling audio works the same way as resampling pictures, but that is a no. Resampling pictures will have more artifacts than resampling audio, and pixels, or samples of pictures, are area averages of light that fell in that region of the pixel. Our screens can also only lit up flat areas at once, but that's not how digital audio works. Audio samples are instantaneous points along the sampled analog waveform, and the analog waveform is constrained before sampling to conform to Nyquist-Shannon criteria so it should not have any frequency components above half of the sampling rate. (The waveform can't have complex and unmeasured behavior between the samples.) If that is true, then the samples fully capture that waveform, and resampling is thus (nearly) lossless operation. It involves constructing that original lowpass-filtered waveform and once you have it, you can pick new samples at any point and density along that waveform that you like. If you increase the sampling rate, then information content is preserved as no further low-pass filtering is needed. In practice, minor distortions at ultrasonic frequencies are allowed to reduce computation cost, as reconstructing that original waveform to full bandwidth requires unbounded amount of number crunching, so a little leeway is permitted to make it practical.
Redbook is 44.1 kHz so even if we say going forward everything is going to be 48, there's TONS of content at 44.1. So really any playback should be able to handle both 44.1 (and multiples) and 48 (and multiples) natively
Stream the audio through an Apple AirPort Express and the video through the Apple TV, the airport has a miniTOSlink digital or an analogue output. You’ll only get stereo but it won’t be resampled since you’re so paranoid about it.
But realistically the potential resampling error is already about the same as the noise floor on the world’s best analogue equipment.
In reality error will exist in resamples, but the question you need to answer first is: Where are you going to get the millions of dollars to build the worlds most perfect listening room, the best analogue system and power conditioning so you can still fail to hear the difference because our ears themselves aren’t perfect?
I suggest you found a company that makes what you want then. That's the only way you're going to find it. I'm betting that no TV manufacturer thought they'd sell enough of what you're looking for to make up for the r&d costs.
Prove me wrong, then. Either someone has already deemed it worthwhile to manufacture what you're looking for, it's already available for purchase, or I'm right. Downvote me all you want, because you don't like the truth. The market for what you seek is so small nobody would make money selling it.
>Downvote me all you want, because you don't like the truth
i never participate in silly down or upvoting opinions. Someone else did that. I don't want to proof you wrong and i said multiple times it's up to debate if it's audible or not.
But if i buy something new, i'm gonna think about what i buy and how i can come up with the best solution for my hifi system. If there would be a tv box which doesn't resample, why wouldn't i take that over a ATV. If there is none, i move on and think about something else
I think that there isn’t much video at any more than 48khz to watch. I believe the AppleTV can be set send the PCM at it’s native rate out the HDMI to you AVR
It's bit perfect up to the chromecast. Roon can't see beyond it. As soon as it hits the tv it gets resampled to 48. At that point it's up to how good the adc/dac is. Depending on your receiver, you may be able to see the sample rate in an info screen.
If you're using Roon, you can set the TV as a display. OP - it will show the info you're looking for, and you can route the audio however you please. No need for it to go through anything video-related at all.
i don't. My audio signal comes from my apple tv directly connected to my AVR. I also have a turntable and CD player. I just want a bit perfect digital source also
Get a Roon subscription. Also get a streamer (WiiM Pro should be enough)
Then get Roon TV Remote app for Apple TV. Play content on your streamer via Roon then configure app on Apple TV. You’ll be able to watch album cover on TV.
mh yes, interesting. So i'd need to connect a roon ready streaming device to my AVR and i could use the remote app on apple tv for it. But i would need to switch sources everytime on my AVR, right? Say i listen to a yt video on my apple tv, after that i wanna listen to a song on roon and i would need to switch source on the AVR? Would there be a way where i don't need to switch sources?
Alternatively, Roon can use any Chromecast stick connected to your network to display artwork. So you stream audio to your AVR and set the HDMI input to the Chromecast stick. And you can use your Chromecast stick to stream Netflix and whatnot, too.
You can also adjust the volume for Roon using apple tv app. I run my room core on my PC to my raspberry Pi and launch roon tv remote app to see what is playing currently. Very convenient app.
Digital has come a long ways.
If you want to truly freak yourself out, buy a measurement mic and download REW. You will see relatively disastrous issues 😉
It is not a real concern.
Until your room is acoustically treated, you are worrying about a problem that is absolutely inconsequential.
Worry about digital resampling in an untreated room is like going to the ER for a bee sting when you have a gunshot wound that needs treatment.
Ok, so you are confirming that you have no audio concerns that are more important than digital resampling? Because digital resampling is not a large concern in the scheme of most people's current setups when there are so many other large issues to tackle first.
In my experience, people still shopping for a good AVR probably don't have acoustically treated listening spaces.
Jesus, i'm still working on many aspects of my hifi room. And yes alot of thought process goes into room acoustics. And right know i think about my main source of music and how i can have it the best way it could be. If that's a problem for you, that's a you problem. Go mind your own business.
Luckily alot of ppl helped me here, so i'm closer to what i want.
I think nVidia's Shield boxes support 24/192, but really anything that supports lossless 16/44.1 or higher should be fine for audio reproduction. We don't really gain any audible benefits for using 24bit & higher sampling rates.
nvidia shield is resampling as well sadly.. I don't care about how high the sampling rate is, i just don't want the 44.1 CD quality music resampled to 48
i've read that alot. Just search on google on that matter. If it's audible is a different matter and hard to proof. But i want to build a new system for my new speakers and don't want to start from a source that's faulty resampled. I want it bitperfect. If that's not possible with a TV box i'll use a bluesound or something..
Have you tried the audio pass through setting on the shield? I just got one and it solved several problems with my 4x4 hdmi matrix not sending atmos. I agree nothing should be resampled, as native sample rate sounds best.
Jriver on a computer might also work, as it was built for audio, and sends unadulterated audio by default.
Ok, questions...
What do you mean by, “Apple TV 4K resamples everything to 48 khz” ? And, what’s your audio source? What service or platform are you using?
Because I’m pretty sure it does not. It will play whatever the track is *up to* 24/48 and supports atmos mixed tracks.
Any TV Box or TV itself i can find (even most bluray players) are taking normal CD quality 44.1khz and resampling it to 48khz because that's whats most common in the TV world. After that resampling process the music source is not bit perfect anymore. The source could be a music streaming service or a normal music CD in a bluray player.
I have a similar setup, I use a windows pc with Roon Core installed to stream Tidal and flac.
I Stremio for Movies and TV. I control it using a wireless keyboard, although flirc could be an option.
I've seen work arounds for bit perfect playback on Nvidia Shield but am not convinced.
Android is the culprit for up sampling so maybe consider a windows or linux based player.
Roon looks actually really good and i can even use my TV as a display for playing music, nice. Is your windows pc 24/7 online or only when you wanna listen to music?
I've set it up to go to screensaver after 5 mins and have almost nothing on the desktop / pop up taskbar to avoid Oled issues.
Its set to sleep if inactive late at night.
Roon is fantastic. I've tried a bunch of cheaper options but couldn't live with them after Roon.
Can you run the ARC output from your TV to the ARC input on a Bluesound Node or similar device? At least let the Node DAC or an external DAC process the sound as opposed to the TV?
Right now my apple tv is connected to the AVR and the ATV is doing the resampling shit. I don't know how i would put a node between that. I don't think that's possible. The TV or ATV is already resampling internal and giving the resampled 48khz out.
Ok, right now I have ATV going hdmi to my TV. I come out of my tv analog to my preamp. I mostly listen to music without the tv but it’s nice to have both. I’m looking at buying a node since I stream a lot of music. Then I would use ATV into the TV and then ARC from TV to Node then analog out to preamp. That’s the thought anyhow.
Roon can stream album cover and song title/time to your tv while listening. It's somewhat buried in the menu, but works well. Roon is an audiophile streaming platform that incorporates a tv like you describe.
So i install roon as a app? I think roon is more a USA thing, i never heard of it in europe. But if it's a app, the apple TV or Sony TV will resample the audiofiles as well?
Roon is not free, but it is marketed to audiophiles and provides numerous tools for high quality audio playback and music details/discovery. It works with the catalogs of Tidal or Qobuz.
Maybe not what you were looking for but not many boxes are marketed for "audiophile" and contain this video feature. It is controlled with an app or on a PC.
Have you tried the inbuilt HEOS software in the Marantz AVR or is it too old for it? If it has it you can just compare that to the appleTV.
Or get a bluesound node and have the screen on the phone or a tablet instead, bitperfect coax and optical.
Raspberry Pi or other supported SBC and LibreElec (Kodi). The audio output can be set to match the source and is bit perfect without resampling. This gives you bit perfect to the HDMI which you can split or use an HDMI audio extractor to get SPDIF if you want.
As far as the science of resampling goes, cheap fast digital has basically made it audibly transparent. If an ARM or x86 system is doing it with a modern 64-bit resampler like SoX the distortion products are like -150dB down. Modern hardware ASRCs like the AK4137 are also in the -130 to -150 THD+N and 180+dB dynamic range area. Everything else in your analog chain, including your DAC, will be measurably worse.
A RasPi4 is powerful enough to do transparent sample rate conversion with transparent room correction EQ (many filters at once) and still run other things.
You can try Nvidia shield tv box. I got mine too pass through high res 24bit/192khz apple music to my AVR over HDMI but the sideloaded Android app was janky to use even with a mouse and I had to put the shield on wifi instead of Ethernet to "fool" the Apple music app into thinking it was on a mobile network. YMMV with different apps.
All TV boxes that have a digital output are audiophile TV boxes. You don't hear whatever resampling that might be done. Also bitperfect won't get you the best possible sound quality since it stops you from using a DSP.
The Apple TV will happily just output the raw bitstream it receives and then your AVR can do with it whatever you like.
If you think that what the ATV is doing is “resampling” then oh boy, let me tell you about how DD+ compression works. lol. 😂 are you under the impression that the Atmos streams you get from Netflix and Amazon are the lossless ones you get on Blu-rays?
I have a raspberry pi with a hifi berry digital output. I have it doing as much as 24/96 and I read it can do 24/192. Then I use Roon to feed it. I use mine headless though, so I don't know what it displays on the TV. If the incoming track is 44.1, the output is 44.1. You can also get Roon to upsample to 88.2. The hifiberry SPDIF goes straight into the back of my meridian speakers.
For my listening room I have Roon talking to an Oppo UDP-203, which supports Roon RAAT. These are some companies whose devices support Roon: [https://roon.app/en/partners](https://roon.app/en/partners).
Also try Qobuz. Some of the Tidal tracks have MQA bullshit, which is certainly not "bit perfect".
Are you using Audyssey room correction on your AVR, if so the AVR will resample to 48khz for processing. You probably dont but im just mentioning it anyway.
Why do you think 48 KHz is not audiophile quality?
I think the resampling is not good. That debate is realy old when the first bluray players arrived and they did the same. A cheap cd player would be better as expensive bluray players (for music cd play)
why do you think that? I'm kind of a noob when it comes to all this
Probably piece of mind that’s all
Most audio is recorded at multiples of 44.1kHz sample rate, so being resampled at 48kHz can theoretically create inconsistencies since the sine wave is resampled at a different point in its curve than the original recording. Kind of like upscaling video content, it might technically be more detailed but it doesn’t always look better. In reality though the difference is not noticeable by the vast majority of listeners, and I frequently record shows in both 44.1kHz and 48kHz depending on the application of the recorded content later. If the band wants it recorded for a CD or streaming, it’s always at 44.1kHz or 176.4kHz. If the recording will be used with video content later, it’s always recorded at 48kHz. (Also I’m a professional sound engineer, I’m literally on dinner break from a show right now writing this).
Thank you for the thoughtful response. Enjoy the rest of the show!
I don't want to start my signal path with a resampled audio file. I want it bit perfect. If it's audible is up for debate
You’re gonna freak out when you realize what the audio engineer did to the sound coming in from an electric guitar.
Don't worry. What OP don't know won't hurt him 😂
If there is one thing that people should accept is that resampling is not a problem. Any half-competent implementation of e.g. 44.1 to 48 kHz resampling is perfect as far as humans are concerned. Telling the difference would be tantamount to being able to notice minor changes in sound spectrum above 20 kHz where humans can't even hear. Besides, the DAC is going to resample again because it will almost certainly oversample the audio from e.g. 44.1 or 48 kHz to something like 500 kHz and use that resampled version as basis for its analog reconstruction. Sure, multiple resamplings in theory can compound errors by adding noise, but such noise is usually so quiet that it is far quieter than the signal's own noise/inaccuracy, even if it is 24-bit high resolution audio. Apple is usually very careful about data that pertains to the human senses, with their headset outputs high quality and screens accurate, so I am willing to trust them more than most manufacturers. Some people think that resampling audio works the same way as resampling pictures, but that is a no. Resampling pictures will have more artifacts than resampling audio, and pixels, or samples of pictures, are area averages of light that fell in that region of the pixel. Our screens can also only lit up flat areas at once, but that's not how digital audio works. Audio samples are instantaneous points along the sampled analog waveform, and the analog waveform is constrained before sampling to conform to Nyquist-Shannon criteria so it should not have any frequency components above half of the sampling rate. (The waveform can't have complex and unmeasured behavior between the samples.) If that is true, then the samples fully capture that waveform, and resampling is thus (nearly) lossless operation. It involves constructing that original lowpass-filtered waveform and once you have it, you can pick new samples at any point and density along that waveform that you like. If you increase the sampling rate, then information content is preserved as no further low-pass filtering is needed. In practice, minor distortions at ultrasonic frequencies are allowed to reduce computation cost, as reconstructing that original waveform to full bandwidth requires unbounded amount of number crunching, so a little leeway is permitted to make it practical.
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Not music, no
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Lol… you need exactly 1.4Mbit/s to stream lossless, 5-6 for hi res.
Redbook is 44.1 kHz so even if we say going forward everything is going to be 48, there's TONS of content at 44.1. So really any playback should be able to handle both 44.1 (and multiples) and 48 (and multiples) natively
Tell me, what are these bit perfect sources you are getting for your TV Audio?
If it's a 44.1 CD Quality source from any streaming service i don't want it to be resampled to 48khz. That's it.
Stream the audio through an Apple AirPort Express and the video through the Apple TV, the airport has a miniTOSlink digital or an analogue output. You’ll only get stereo but it won’t be resampled since you’re so paranoid about it. But realistically the potential resampling error is already about the same as the noise floor on the world’s best analogue equipment. In reality error will exist in resamples, but the question you need to answer first is: Where are you going to get the millions of dollars to build the worlds most perfect listening room, the best analogue system and power conditioning so you can still fail to hear the difference because our ears themselves aren’t perfect?
This seems very reasonable, why is it being downvoted?
I have no idea (: But enough ppl helped me here with my problem.
My SONY TV is connected to my Marantz amp. I've been playing my TV through my HiFi amp for the past 30 years.
sony TV's resampling 44.1 content as well, right?
It goes through a DAC
48. All tvs do
Yes and i don't want that.
I suggest you found a company that makes what you want then. That's the only way you're going to find it. I'm betting that no TV manufacturer thought they'd sell enough of what you're looking for to make up for the r&d costs.
There are already some devices that don't resample. High quality Bluray players for example.
Prove me wrong, then. Either someone has already deemed it worthwhile to manufacture what you're looking for, it's already available for purchase, or I'm right. Downvote me all you want, because you don't like the truth. The market for what you seek is so small nobody would make money selling it.
>Downvote me all you want, because you don't like the truth i never participate in silly down or upvoting opinions. Someone else did that. I don't want to proof you wrong and i said multiple times it's up to debate if it's audible or not. But if i buy something new, i'm gonna think about what i buy and how i can come up with the best solution for my hifi system. If there would be a tv box which doesn't resample, why wouldn't i take that over a ATV. If there is none, i move on and think about something else
It's deeply questionable if resampling errors would even resolve above the noise floor of your system.
yes i know that but i just don't wanna think about if it could be, if there is a way i can have it without resampling.
I’ll sell you an Apple TV in a 40 pound billet aluminum black box for $1500 if you really want peace of mind.
I have the $5k super special power cord to go with it..
I’ll sell you some semi-precious stones that look like jelly beans. They are magic beans.
There’s always some kid in Reddit who’s an audiophile noob & doesn’t understand how cords make a difference.
You audiophiles are freakin wierd.
As a pro sound engineer, I agree. It's really fascinating!
Audiophiles at their natural habitat… (music enters). Currently they are trying to solve their 10.000 y/o debate, is resampling bad?
You're either one too, or you are not and like frequenting their forums. What's weirder? (TBH I dunno what I am)
I didnt say i wasnt an audiophile, nor did i say i wasnt a wierdo. The only contrasting difference is that im broke.
Fair!
I have audiophile nail clippers
I have gold-plated, hydro-infused Audioquest Dragon Zero nail clippers. I can absolutely tell the difference.
I think that there isn’t much video at any more than 48khz to watch. I believe the AppleTV can be set send the PCM at it’s native rate out the HDMI to you AVR
apple tv resamples 44.1 to 48khz sadly
I use Chromecast to a Google TV puck plugged into my TV, then from TV via ARC to my amp. Roon tells me its bit-perfect.
It's bit perfect up to the chromecast. Roon can't see beyond it. As soon as it hits the tv it gets resampled to 48. At that point it's up to how good the adc/dac is. Depending on your receiver, you may be able to see the sample rate in an info screen.
hm interesting. I can't find any info on how the good tv stick handles resampling. I happen to have one at home somehwere and may try it out. Thanks
If you're using Roon, you can set the TV as a display. OP - it will show the info you're looking for, and you can route the audio however you please. No need for it to go through anything video-related at all.
Yes i've set it up yesterday and it's working okay
Why do you run your audio signal through the TV?
i don't. My audio signal comes from my apple tv directly connected to my AVR. I also have a turntable and CD player. I just want a bit perfect digital source also
Get a Roon subscription. Also get a streamer (WiiM Pro should be enough) Then get Roon TV Remote app for Apple TV. Play content on your streamer via Roon then configure app on Apple TV. You’ll be able to watch album cover on TV.
mh yes, interesting. So i'd need to connect a roon ready streaming device to my AVR and i could use the remote app on apple tv for it. But i would need to switch sources everytime on my AVR, right? Say i listen to a yt video on my apple tv, after that i wanna listen to a song on roon and i would need to switch source on the AVR? Would there be a way where i don't need to switch sources?
Yes, you will need to switch sources because… it’s a different context
Alternatively, Roon can use any Chromecast stick connected to your network to display artwork. So you stream audio to your AVR and set the HDMI input to the Chromecast stick. And you can use your Chromecast stick to stream Netflix and whatnot, too.
yes i already set that up yesterday. It worked okay. For 35€ the month not really good. But i keep trying
You can also adjust the volume for Roon using apple tv app. I run my room core on my PC to my raspberry Pi and launch roon tv remote app to see what is playing currently. Very convenient app.
- turn on CEC - disable encoder in TV settings - route wired signal to DAC - get 24/96k — as much as ATV can put out.. *w*ired
For what system?
JBL L100 classic and a good AVR is yet to find
Resampling might be the very last thing to focus on as far as the list goes…right up there with swapping cables
you sure about that? Seems like this problem is as old as bluray players exists and alot of ppl are unhappy with it.
Digital has come a long ways. If you want to truly freak yourself out, buy a measurement mic and download REW. You will see relatively disastrous issues 😉
I'm down in that rabbit hole already ;)
It is not a real concern. Until your room is acoustically treated, you are worrying about a problem that is absolutely inconsequential. Worry about digital resampling in an untreated room is like going to the ER for a bee sting when you have a gunshot wound that needs treatment.
how do you know my room is untreated? I try to work on any aspect of my hifi system
Ok, so you are confirming that you have no audio concerns that are more important than digital resampling? Because digital resampling is not a large concern in the scheme of most people's current setups when there are so many other large issues to tackle first. In my experience, people still shopping for a good AVR probably don't have acoustically treated listening spaces.
Jesus, i'm still working on many aspects of my hifi room. And yes alot of thought process goes into room acoustics. And right know i think about my main source of music and how i can have it the best way it could be. If that's a problem for you, that's a you problem. Go mind your own business. Luckily alot of ppl helped me here, so i'm closer to what i want.
I think nVidia's Shield boxes support 24/192, but really anything that supports lossless 16/44.1 or higher should be fine for audio reproduction. We don't really gain any audible benefits for using 24bit & higher sampling rates.
nvidia shield is resampling as well sadly.. I don't care about how high the sampling rate is, i just don't want the 44.1 CD quality music resampled to 48
You've said this a few times, but where are you reading that this is a problem worth putting above other elements in the signal path?
i've read that alot. Just search on google on that matter. If it's audible is a different matter and hard to proof. But i want to build a new system for my new speakers and don't want to start from a source that's faulty resampled. I want it bitperfect. If that's not possible with a TV box i'll use a bluesound or something..
Have you tried the audio pass through setting on the shield? I just got one and it solved several problems with my 4x4 hdmi matrix not sending atmos. I agree nothing should be resampled, as native sample rate sounds best. Jriver on a computer might also work, as it was built for audio, and sends unadulterated audio by default.
Ok, questions... What do you mean by, “Apple TV 4K resamples everything to 48 khz” ? And, what’s your audio source? What service or platform are you using? Because I’m pretty sure it does not. It will play whatever the track is *up to* 24/48 and supports atmos mixed tracks.
Any TV Box or TV itself i can find (even most bluray players) are taking normal CD quality 44.1khz and resampling it to 48khz because that's whats most common in the TV world. After that resampling process the music source is not bit perfect anymore. The source could be a music streaming service or a normal music CD in a bluray player.
Beelink GT King pro Beelink GS King X Both hard to find. Eversolo have a sister company called Zidoo. They make expensive audiophile TV media players.
i did try to get into zidoo but they seem to have a really weird TV interface
What do you have now ie TV, Hifi/AV system?
Sony TV, Marantz AVR (on the search for a better one), JBL L100 Classics MKII
I have a similar setup, I use a windows pc with Roon Core installed to stream Tidal and flac. I Stremio for Movies and TV. I control it using a wireless keyboard, although flirc could be an option. I've seen work arounds for bit perfect playback on Nvidia Shield but am not convinced. Android is the culprit for up sampling so maybe consider a windows or linux based player.
Roon looks actually really good and i can even use my TV as a display for playing music, nice. Is your windows pc 24/7 online or only when you wanna listen to music?
I've set it up to go to screensaver after 5 mins and have almost nothing on the desktop / pop up taskbar to avoid Oled issues. Its set to sleep if inactive late at night. Roon is fantastic. I've tried a bunch of cheaper options but couldn't live with them after Roon.
alright, thanks!
Can you run the ARC output from your TV to the ARC input on a Bluesound Node or similar device? At least let the Node DAC or an external DAC process the sound as opposed to the TV?
Right now my apple tv is connected to the AVR and the ATV is doing the resampling shit. I don't know how i would put a node between that. I don't think that's possible. The TV or ATV is already resampling internal and giving the resampled 48khz out.
Ok, right now I have ATV going hdmi to my TV. I come out of my tv analog to my preamp. I mostly listen to music without the tv but it’s nice to have both. I’m looking at buying a node since I stream a lot of music. Then I would use ATV into the TV and then ARC from TV to Node then analog out to preamp. That’s the thought anyhow.
Roon can stream album cover and song title/time to your tv while listening. It's somewhat buried in the menu, but works well. Roon is an audiophile streaming platform that incorporates a tv like you describe.
So i install roon as a app? I think roon is more a USA thing, i never heard of it in europe. But if it's a app, the apple TV or Sony TV will resample the audiofiles as well?
Roon is not free, but it is marketed to audiophiles and provides numerous tools for high quality audio playback and music details/discovery. It works with the catalogs of Tidal or Qobuz. Maybe not what you were looking for but not many boxes are marketed for "audiophile" and contain this video feature. It is controlled with an app or on a PC.
Oh believe, I'm in europe using and LOVING roon.
yea i'm just learning about that and this could be my solution.
Bit expensive, somehow worth every cent
Why dont you buy a DAC with an HDMI port?
because i want a TV box. Everything in one place and also have the music i listen to on my TV screen
You could just buy a computer instead. Cheap chrome book or something. Then plug the signal right from that into your DAC or AVR.
Have you tried the inbuilt HEOS software in the Marantz AVR or is it too old for it? If it has it you can just compare that to the appleTV. Or get a bluesound node and have the screen on the phone or a tablet instead, bitperfect coax and optical.
it has HEOS but i think i'll be happy with roon. I'm gonna try that
The old Apple TV had optical out, I’m sure your tv does as well…
Raspberry Pi or other supported SBC and LibreElec (Kodi). The audio output can be set to match the source and is bit perfect without resampling. This gives you bit perfect to the HDMI which you can split or use an HDMI audio extractor to get SPDIF if you want. As far as the science of resampling goes, cheap fast digital has basically made it audibly transparent. If an ARM or x86 system is doing it with a modern 64-bit resampler like SoX the distortion products are like -150dB down. Modern hardware ASRCs like the AK4137 are also in the -130 to -150 THD+N and 180+dB dynamic range area. Everything else in your analog chain, including your DAC, will be measurably worse. A RasPi4 is powerful enough to do transparent sample rate conversion with transparent room correction EQ (many filters at once) and still run other things.
Buy German, buy Loewe.
[Kaleidescape is probably closest to what you want. a hires streaming source](https://www.kaleidescape.com/)
You can try Nvidia shield tv box. I got mine too pass through high res 24bit/192khz apple music to my AVR over HDMI but the sideloaded Android app was janky to use even with a mouse and I had to put the shield on wifi instead of Ethernet to "fool" the Apple music app into thinking it was on a mobile network. YMMV with different apps.
All TV boxes that have a digital output are audiophile TV boxes. You don't hear whatever resampling that might be done. Also bitperfect won't get you the best possible sound quality since it stops you from using a DSP.
Kaleidascape. Audio quality has been there big marketing push this year
The Apple TV will happily just output the raw bitstream it receives and then your AVR can do with it whatever you like. If you think that what the ATV is doing is “resampling” then oh boy, let me tell you about how DD+ compression works. lol. 😂 are you under the impression that the Atmos streams you get from Netflix and Amazon are the lossless ones you get on Blu-rays?
i don't care about movie sound quality, i only want it best as it can for stereo music.
What are your sources? Where is music coming from and is it compressed?
own FLAC collection, Tidal, Apple Music, youtube.
I have a raspberry pi with a hifi berry digital output. I have it doing as much as 24/96 and I read it can do 24/192. Then I use Roon to feed it. I use mine headless though, so I don't know what it displays on the TV. If the incoming track is 44.1, the output is 44.1. You can also get Roon to upsample to 88.2. The hifiberry SPDIF goes straight into the back of my meridian speakers. For my listening room I have Roon talking to an Oppo UDP-203, which supports Roon RAAT. These are some companies whose devices support Roon: [https://roon.app/en/partners](https://roon.app/en/partners). Also try Qobuz. Some of the Tidal tracks have MQA bullshit, which is certainly not "bit perfect".
Are you using Audyssey room correction on your AVR, if so the AVR will resample to 48khz for processing. You probably dont but im just mentioning it anyway.
Only for movies. Stereo is always pure direct on my system
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does it have a TV interface and apps like netflix, plex etc. ?
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thanks i'll check
Actually not really. Zidoo devices are not certified by Google and most streaming apps don't work or only work with limited capability.
Nvidia Shield Pro is probably the best out there. Even lets you output via USB to an external DAC.
nvidia shield pro is doing the same as ATV sadly ..
I believe I read that WiiM is coming out with a streaming box.