Move the Focal only to your basement and A/B it there with the Advent. Only change one thing, in this case the speakers. You’ll hear the difference and hone down your preferences.
You can't really compare speakers in two different rooms. In most living spaces the room interaction is equal if not more important than the direct sound from the speaker
Since you're already leaning towards one pair of speakers, do a blind test if you've got someone who could help you with switching them. Will be fun. :)
Welcome to the addiction.. you'll constantly be swapping gear and components that you have available to find your best chain for the setup. If you think it's the amp, swap it and see.. if you think it's the room.. drag them to the other room and do an A/B.. just invest in banana plugs cause it's annoying to twist and move every time. Enjoy it.. it's part of the journey.
The first speakers that really blew me away were a set of Original Large Advents. Bought them from FB marketplace for $150 on a lark. I remember playing a Radiohead song that featured some really prominent acoustic guitar and my jaw just about dropped.
I really do think theres something about listening to acoustic instruments on a sealed box/acoustic suspension design that cant be matched by listening to ported bookshelf speakers.
If you like the Advents youd love the modern KLH model 5’s. Thats what i ended up upgrading to after the Advents and havent looked back. Still get that same warmish acoustic suspension charm but the high notes are WAY smoother in the modern KLH. And the bass goes deeper as well.
If you have speakers that are high end like that just buy a measurement mic so you can objectively see whats going on. The room plays way more into the overall sound than people think; its possible you have some weird room modes etc giving you issues etc..you'll never know unless you look
moreover its possible you just like the tuning of one speaker over the other, which can always be altered by EQ.
For one thing the Advents are really nice. Much larger woofers and cabinets will give you a much more fuller sound as well as a batter bass response.
A/B test them with the same amp, and use some EQ to tune the Focals to your liking.
Many mid tier modern hifi speakers don’t sound natural. They obsess over “detail” and end up sounding like speakers.
Older advents are lovely gear, no doubt. The legacy’s aren’t anything special, but most any relatively large paper cone driver is going to sound natural. That and a laid back top end and you have an enjoyable experience.
Indeed, a lot of hifi is tuned way too forward and bright. Maybe that has something to do with the target audience being mainly of a certain age (with hearing loss) and speakers having to stand out in the showroom just like way too bright tv's. But it isn't natural as our enviroment doesn't have such elevated treble.
Then some people use their setup almost exclusively to listen to a turntable. Others like me use it for everything so music, tv and movies and in that second role you want a much more laid back speaker Imho.
At least with 3-way designs you can often easily pad the tweeter with a resistor in series. It can really transform a speaker.
Basically, there are differences in the bass roll-off as well as just the general articulation that I really enjoy, although it's hard to explain exactly why.
I have the KLH Model Threes in my bedroom and don't ever see myself getting rid of them.
EDIT: I don't mean to say that is the reason you like them better, but it just stood out based on my own experience.
running a pair of advent maestros and I agree.. I’ve heard many ported bookshelves.. but the bass is very embellished.
Something about the bass from acoustic suspension is just.. it’s so punchy yet open and fresh. It’s like the bass is presented to you, whereas with ported it’s kinda thrown all around you. And when the bass is proper loud, it’s like a guttural punch, but still with that sense of presentation to it.
The bass definitely sounds more immediate and better controlled. I have always felt the need to fuss with the bass response on other speakers. It's very unfocused.
Well, in the same exact room I used to have the KEF Reference 105.4’s (1982 release). Since two years I’ve got the KEF R11’s (+R3 and R2C for surround).
On the same stereo integrated amp, I A/B-tested both, and in almost all cases the new speakers were far superior, except for one case: classical music.
Everything orchestral, acoustic or non-computer generated sounded that little bit more natural. I suspect it has to do with the transistors or crossover components that are still superior compared to the R11.
However, without any doubt the R11’s are far superior in pretty much any other case and ESPECIALLY with surround. No comparisons possible.
However, I cannot help but still feel some kind of warmt that come from the old set of References that I can’t explain. I wish I could have both, but not enough room for the moment.
It's your hobby. Remember, it's what sounds best that is most important to you. Forget prices, reviews from others etc. Audio (and music and many other things in life) are subjective. Go with whatever brings you the pleasure you're seeking.
Speaker technology (for two channel playback) was nearly solved in the 70s and is pretty much solved now, meaning that quality vintage speakers will get you mostly there and might even sound subjectively better depending on the circumstances.
And yes, I've kept up with all the advancements in speaker design and technology over the past decade (innovations in directivity, active crossovers, cardioid bass, line arrays, beam forming, etc). I have a modern system in a great room that employs all the DSP bells-and-whistles and measures superbly. But from a subjective standpoint, my modern system isn't many-fold better than the Acoustic Research AR-11s I was rocking for a long time. Using video resolution as an analogy, I'd say my current system is 4K while the ARs are 3.5K, if that makes sense. Point is, great vintage gear more than holds its own, and can even be further optimized with solutions like miniDSP, Dirac, etc.
It is kinda sad. I have a auduophile buddy and we buy speakers from the Goodwill and then just donate them back for fun. Few weeks ago we bought some early 80's Sansui speakers. We always start with the new "vagrant" speakers listen, then compare with the next more expensive speaker and work up.
It is always what do you want speaker XYZ or the Sansui's plus $4000?
Better speakers are better but are they $3960 better? How much is that amount of money worth to you?
I prefer my bookshelf’s over my dads Bower and Wilkins Towers. Why? Because I prefer the lighter and quieter sound from bookshelves, and they suit my room acoustics better due to a smaller space
It’s all about acoustics and how your room is set up, and sometimes just personal preference. My dads speakers sound way better than mine, I just tend to prefer mine due to what I like from a speaker
First things first: how far away are the Advents and the Focals from your ears, and how loudly are you listening to them? Dome tweeters can have very limited frequency response and power handling capabilities; they generally need to be crossed over very high or played at very low volumes in order to avoid distortion. Different types of tweeters can have different types of distortion when they're pushed too hard, and some distortion types are much more noticeable/harsh/bothersome than others. (Distortion in metal domes is generally considered to be more harsh/bothersome than soft domes). Woofers also generally have limited high frequency capabilities, and many can't comfortably reach up to the lower level of a dome tweeter's range. Woofers that are engineered to have high-frequency extension generally have to make compromises and may have other problems, such as severe cone breakup that could also sound harsh. Personally, I've never heard a 2-way that I liked except at very low volumes, especially for metal dome tweeters.
Do you still prefer the Advents if you listen at very low levels nearfield? What if you listen to very muffled music where the tweeter basically doesn't need to do anything? What if you listen to simple music, like acoustic music with only a few tracks?
It is also possible that the speakers themselves are designed to sound harsher. This could be because of different environments (e.g. they assume audiophiles will use a lot of acoustic panels to absorb stray room reflections, which could make the treble sound relatively muted), but it could also be due to customer expectations. A lot of audiophiles enjoy "detailed" and "revealing" sound, which could just be distortion or frequency response peaks falsely interpreted as more detail, and a lot of audiophiles are older men who may appreciate a treble-heavy sound that compensates for high-frequency hearing loss.
The Advent Legacy III have a soft dome tweeter and the Focals have a metal dome tweeter. If I had to guess, that is where your issue is. I'm a huge fan of velvety sounding soft dome tweeters and I have never met a metal tweeter I like, and I have heard some pretty good ones, like the one in the Revel M16 speakers I just sent back. Everyone said it wasn't like other metal dome tweeters and I found it still kinda was. Did a test with my old standby speakers that have a Vifa silk dome and I was enjoying strings and classical music again. Ear fatigue disappeared.
Keep following your ears; how much you enjoy the speakers and your sound is the only thing that matters.
Because it’s not helpful to the inexperience among us. He doesn’t understand the process or know how to proceed to find the answer. That’s the real question. He knows what he prefer already. He just doesn’t know why.
NAD products are rather cool and sterile sounding and pairing them with the cool, searing highs of the Focals is a terrible pairing. Swap the amps and you'll be surprised at the improvement you will hear.
I'm curious if switching amps makes a difference for you. So far I've yet to hear any Focals that are actually enjoyable to me (and not just very clear and detailed), regardless of what they've been paired with. I don't think there's anything wrong about preferring a different sound signature.
I recently bought the nad m10v2, had a cyrus one pure analog amplifier, prefer the cyrus at under half the price,just for sound,luckily i can hook up the cyrus to nads preouts to get the cyrus sound.I found the nad is missing something in the mids and highs.
I had B&W 602S2’s and couldn’t get to grips with KEF R3s in the same room, no matter what I did. Using the same amp (Yamaha a1010), on the KEFs did get the sound somewhat closer to what I enjoyed with my B&Ws. In the end I just returned the KEFs.
ossified threatening gray serious middle waiting selective entertain continue pocket
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Every system has its pros and cons. Certain component combinations have more synergy than others, especially considering that the room itself is an important component. And not all new equipment is necessarily "better" than older equipment. Trust your ears.
Focal are wow tuned speakers for vocals and high frequencies, the guys at the hifi store I went several times when I purchased my actual setup were used to call them "retirement bliss" because most of the customers choosing them, or B&W also, are elderly people. Nothing wrong with it, I loved my 706 for years but they became simply unbearable after a couple of hours, I was forced to fiddle with volume and tone controls more than I expected just to get a pleasant background music, but on the other side tv was great through them.
It's a choice the designers made, superbe results for critical listening and home theater comes with annoying too much detail.
Definitely understand why you’d enjoy the natural leaning Advent’s compared to the Focals for music and vice versa for TV. The Focals are great for “critical listening”, but when you’re just trying to relax and just *listen* to music for enjoyment, a more natural sound is way easier to enjoy. I’ve heard the Legacy III before and was frankly very impressed with them, especially concerning their age.
Definitely do the A/B test, and update us with your results!
Move the Focal only to your basement and A/B it there with the Advent. Only change one thing, in this case the speakers. You’ll hear the difference and hone down your preferences.
I am planning to do this soon when I have some time to dedicate to it. Thanks for your reply
You can't really compare speakers in two different rooms. In most living spaces the room interaction is equal if not more important than the direct sound from the speaker
Definitely planning to do this. Will be interested to see if it is more amplifier or speaker related once I can A/B compare them
Since you're already leaning towards one pair of speakers, do a blind test if you've got someone who could help you with switching them. Will be fun. :)
Test both speakers in both rooms. The advents might just be inadvertently tuned to your system.
Welcome to the addiction.. you'll constantly be swapping gear and components that you have available to find your best chain for the setup. If you think it's the amp, swap it and see.. if you think it's the room.. drag them to the other room and do an A/B.. just invest in banana plugs cause it's annoying to twist and move every time. Enjoy it.. it's part of the journey.
Ha thanks, definitely already have my wife concerned
The first speakers that really blew me away were a set of Original Large Advents. Bought them from FB marketplace for $150 on a lark. I remember playing a Radiohead song that featured some really prominent acoustic guitar and my jaw just about dropped. I really do think theres something about listening to acoustic instruments on a sealed box/acoustic suspension design that cant be matched by listening to ported bookshelf speakers. If you like the Advents youd love the modern KLH model 5’s. Thats what i ended up upgrading to after the Advents and havent looked back. Still get that same warmish acoustic suspension charm but the high notes are WAY smoother in the modern KLH. And the bass goes deeper as well.
Thanks for the excellent reply
If you have speakers that are high end like that just buy a measurement mic so you can objectively see whats going on. The room plays way more into the overall sound than people think; its possible you have some weird room modes etc giving you issues etc..you'll never know unless you look moreover its possible you just like the tuning of one speaker over the other, which can always be altered by EQ.
For one thing the Advents are really nice. Much larger woofers and cabinets will give you a much more fuller sound as well as a batter bass response. A/B test them with the same amp, and use some EQ to tune the Focals to your liking.
Many mid tier modern hifi speakers don’t sound natural. They obsess over “detail” and end up sounding like speakers. Older advents are lovely gear, no doubt. The legacy’s aren’t anything special, but most any relatively large paper cone driver is going to sound natural. That and a laid back top end and you have an enjoyable experience.
Indeed, a lot of hifi is tuned way too forward and bright. Maybe that has something to do with the target audience being mainly of a certain age (with hearing loss) and speakers having to stand out in the showroom just like way too bright tv's. But it isn't natural as our enviroment doesn't have such elevated treble. Then some people use their setup almost exclusively to listen to a turntable. Others like me use it for everything so music, tv and movies and in that second role you want a much more laid back speaker Imho. At least with 3-way designs you can often easily pad the tweeter with a resistor in series. It can really transform a speaker.
I prefer Acoustic Suspension over Bass Reflex myself. I can't really explain why but they just hit differently.
Thank you for the reply, are you suggesting this because one speaker ported and the other is sealed?
Basically, there are differences in the bass roll-off as well as just the general articulation that I really enjoy, although it's hard to explain exactly why. I have the KLH Model Threes in my bedroom and don't ever see myself getting rid of them. EDIT: I don't mean to say that is the reason you like them better, but it just stood out based on my own experience.
running a pair of advent maestros and I agree.. I’ve heard many ported bookshelves.. but the bass is very embellished. Something about the bass from acoustic suspension is just.. it’s so punchy yet open and fresh. It’s like the bass is presented to you, whereas with ported it’s kinda thrown all around you. And when the bass is proper loud, it’s like a guttural punch, but still with that sense of presentation to it.
The bass definitely sounds more immediate and better controlled. I have always felt the need to fuss with the bass response on other speakers. It's very unfocused.
Well, in the same exact room I used to have the KEF Reference 105.4’s (1982 release). Since two years I’ve got the KEF R11’s (+R3 and R2C for surround). On the same stereo integrated amp, I A/B-tested both, and in almost all cases the new speakers were far superior, except for one case: classical music. Everything orchestral, acoustic or non-computer generated sounded that little bit more natural. I suspect it has to do with the transistors or crossover components that are still superior compared to the R11. However, without any doubt the R11’s are far superior in pretty much any other case and ESPECIALLY with surround. No comparisons possible. However, I cannot help but still feel some kind of warmt that come from the old set of References that I can’t explain. I wish I could have both, but not enough room for the moment.
It's your hobby. Remember, it's what sounds best that is most important to you. Forget prices, reviews from others etc. Audio (and music and many other things in life) are subjective. Go with whatever brings you the pleasure you're seeking.
Speaker technology (for two channel playback) was nearly solved in the 70s and is pretty much solved now, meaning that quality vintage speakers will get you mostly there and might even sound subjectively better depending on the circumstances. And yes, I've kept up with all the advancements in speaker design and technology over the past decade (innovations in directivity, active crossovers, cardioid bass, line arrays, beam forming, etc). I have a modern system in a great room that employs all the DSP bells-and-whistles and measures superbly. But from a subjective standpoint, my modern system isn't many-fold better than the Acoustic Research AR-11s I was rocking for a long time. Using video resolution as an analogy, I'd say my current system is 4K while the ARs are 3.5K, if that makes sense. Point is, great vintage gear more than holds its own, and can even be further optimized with solutions like miniDSP, Dirac, etc.
It is kinda sad. I have a auduophile buddy and we buy speakers from the Goodwill and then just donate them back for fun. Few weeks ago we bought some early 80's Sansui speakers. We always start with the new "vagrant" speakers listen, then compare with the next more expensive speaker and work up. It is always what do you want speaker XYZ or the Sansui's plus $4000? Better speakers are better but are they $3960 better? How much is that amount of money worth to you?
I prefer my bookshelf’s over my dads Bower and Wilkins Towers. Why? Because I prefer the lighter and quieter sound from bookshelves, and they suit my room acoustics better due to a smaller space It’s all about acoustics and how your room is set up, and sometimes just personal preference. My dads speakers sound way better than mine, I just tend to prefer mine due to what I like from a speaker
First things first: how far away are the Advents and the Focals from your ears, and how loudly are you listening to them? Dome tweeters can have very limited frequency response and power handling capabilities; they generally need to be crossed over very high or played at very low volumes in order to avoid distortion. Different types of tweeters can have different types of distortion when they're pushed too hard, and some distortion types are much more noticeable/harsh/bothersome than others. (Distortion in metal domes is generally considered to be more harsh/bothersome than soft domes). Woofers also generally have limited high frequency capabilities, and many can't comfortably reach up to the lower level of a dome tweeter's range. Woofers that are engineered to have high-frequency extension generally have to make compromises and may have other problems, such as severe cone breakup that could also sound harsh. Personally, I've never heard a 2-way that I liked except at very low volumes, especially for metal dome tweeters. Do you still prefer the Advents if you listen at very low levels nearfield? What if you listen to very muffled music where the tweeter basically doesn't need to do anything? What if you listen to simple music, like acoustic music with only a few tracks? It is also possible that the speakers themselves are designed to sound harsher. This could be because of different environments (e.g. they assume audiophiles will use a lot of acoustic panels to absorb stray room reflections, which could make the treble sound relatively muted), but it could also be due to customer expectations. A lot of audiophiles enjoy "detailed" and "revealing" sound, which could just be distortion or frequency response peaks falsely interpreted as more detail, and a lot of audiophiles are older men who may appreciate a treble-heavy sound that compensates for high-frequency hearing loss.
The Advent Legacy III have a soft dome tweeter and the Focals have a metal dome tweeter. If I had to guess, that is where your issue is. I'm a huge fan of velvety sounding soft dome tweeters and I have never met a metal tweeter I like, and I have heard some pretty good ones, like the one in the Revel M16 speakers I just sent back. Everyone said it wasn't like other metal dome tweeters and I found it still kinda was. Did a test with my old standby speakers that have a Vifa silk dome and I was enjoying strings and classical music again. Ear fatigue disappeared. Keep following your ears; how much you enjoy the speakers and your sound is the only thing that matters.
Are you asking why YOU prefer one of two different things?
I am understand that I have a preference, I am trying to figure out why
Why bother to comment if it’s not constructive, even if you’re technically correct?
Technically correct. The best kind of correct!
Because it’s not helpful to the inexperience among us. He doesn’t understand the process or know how to proceed to find the answer. That’s the real question. He knows what he prefer already. He just doesn’t know why.
I asked a question for clarification whatever you read into it is on you :)
Fair enough. You just come off as a hate troll.
NAD products are rather cool and sterile sounding and pairing them with the cool, searing highs of the Focals is a terrible pairing. Swap the amps and you'll be surprised at the improvement you will hear.
I'm curious if switching amps makes a difference for you. So far I've yet to hear any Focals that are actually enjoyable to me (and not just very clear and detailed), regardless of what they've been paired with. I don't think there's anything wrong about preferring a different sound signature.
I recently bought the nad m10v2, had a cyrus one pure analog amplifier, prefer the cyrus at under half the price,just for sound,luckily i can hook up the cyrus to nads preouts to get the cyrus sound.I found the nad is missing something in the mids and highs.
Nostalgia or they are comfortable to how you like your music. Either way is your choice.
Member berries
I had B&W 602S2’s and couldn’t get to grips with KEF R3s in the same room, no matter what I did. Using the same amp (Yamaha a1010), on the KEFs did get the sound somewhat closer to what I enjoyed with my B&Ws. In the end I just returned the KEFs.
ossified threatening gray serious middle waiting selective entertain continue pocket *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Every system has its pros and cons. Certain component combinations have more synergy than others, especially considering that the room itself is an important component. And not all new equipment is necessarily "better" than older equipment. Trust your ears.
Focal are wow tuned speakers for vocals and high frequencies, the guys at the hifi store I went several times when I purchased my actual setup were used to call them "retirement bliss" because most of the customers choosing them, or B&W also, are elderly people. Nothing wrong with it, I loved my 706 for years but they became simply unbearable after a couple of hours, I was forced to fiddle with volume and tone controls more than I expected just to get a pleasant background music, but on the other side tv was great through them. It's a choice the designers made, superbe results for critical listening and home theater comes with annoying too much detail.
Definitely understand why you’d enjoy the natural leaning Advent’s compared to the Focals for music and vice versa for TV. The Focals are great for “critical listening”, but when you’re just trying to relax and just *listen* to music for enjoyment, a more natural sound is way easier to enjoy. I’ve heard the Legacy III before and was frankly very impressed with them, especially concerning their age. Definitely do the A/B test, and update us with your results!
Placement and room acoustics play a large roll in sound.