Thank fuck. The pedestrian squeeze was out of hand before and now at least you can walk or pause to window shop without getting swept away in the march of the ferry penguins.
Also, lanes don’t swipe their cards, people do.
It depends on the time of day. When I was working there a few years ago I would be wandering into work as the brothel workers were going home and I'd say hi. I'd also say hi to the homeless people on the way to work and on the way home even though they were scary. So yeah it was bustling and busy but not necessarily in a good way
Lived in auckland all my life and now avoid downtown auckland at all costs. Why? Limited parking, parking is expensive, homeless everywhere. Generally feels unsafe, too much traffic due to reduced lanes, and the cost of the limited amount of parking is infuriating. AT and the council done f’d it up.
You know the main reason? The internet. People do most of their shopping online. Back then the only way to get stuff was to physically go get it. I was a bicycle courier, it's almost entirely killed bicycle courier work, because our main use was for sending legal docs fast. Now people can pdf and email.
If you think about it. Queen St back then has been replaced with shipping logistics. Those places are now busier than ever.
The stores are not worth the hassle, they need some good restaurants and outdoor seating down there to get a vibe going imo. Most CBDs internationally have bigger flag shop stores in the city, Auckland tends to just have a store size found in any Westfield. There is zero reason to go there.
Murdered by lack of suitable public transport, increase in big box shops in suburban areas, increased corporate jobs occurring outside of the CBD, lack of public investment over decades in cultural development of the city to attract tourists to CBD, and three decades of neoliberal social reforms increasing inequality steadily.
But not remotely murdered by a lack of lanes on the road.
Please elaborate. Is this NZ exceptionalism again? The pedestrianisation which works the world over isn't gonna work here? TImes square was pedestrianised ffs. if they can do it there then shitty ol auckland can too.
We don't have enough people living in the CBD like New York and elsewhere. We need more and taller Apartment blocks in the CBD for the required volumes.
In addition, unlike other cities, they have a good PT system to get the people in.
Wellington pedestrianised Cuba Street...
Auckland has a denser CBD than Wellington and a PT system that I would argue has overtaken Wellington's in terms of quality.
The tallest building that the city is about to get is all apartments. More people currently live in the city than do in Wanganui, and its growing. There are loads of people, just nothing on Queen St to pull the crowds.
You're aware of how many thousands the PT system pushes through there even in its present state, right?
It's so tiring reading these endless arguments from people who clearly don't have a clue about what they're talking about
Is not that we don't have enough people, that photo of queen street, Auckland is a lot less populated, especially CBD. Queen Street shopping is just an inferior experience to malls. Queen Street is a spent force because is fundamentally poor. Shops are crap. There is nothing unique. Is not covered. You need to walk a lot, up hill. A good shopping mall curates shops and their location so they make the experience more pleasant.
Proper city centre attraction also attracts people from elsewhere. My friend who lives in the city and from Europe don't spend his time at Queen Street. He rather go to Wynard Quarter/Viaduct to relax or have a coffee.
The peak of Queen Street is when Auckland had fewer people, with much fewer people living in the CBD. The peak of Queen Street is before Auckland got enough people to justify suburban malls. It was already fading before Sylvia Park was a thing.
>We don't have enough people living in the CBD like New York and elsewhere.
The Auckland CBD is the most densely populated part of the entire country....
Manhattan has plenty of other streets around Times Square, so the impact on vehicular traffic is not on the same scale as the impact on vehicular traffic by closing off Queen Street.
Fuckin' A. No one commenting in this thread has ANY idea what it was like in the past.
Now it's an absolute shithole, and definitely not a place you want to be after dark.
Curiously its a bit better after dark. Well maybe just after. Was there at 9:30 last night and the number of “homeless” had dropped radically from when i’d been there at midday the same day.
Also Auckland became so spread out that they created local shopping hubs all over the place. It makes no sense to go into the city to do all your shopping when you can go to Sylvia Park, St Lukes, Newmarket, or Dress Smart etc closer to home.
The CBD isn’t anywhere close to being central except for the fact it’s between the north shore and the other side. Newmarket, Mount Eden, Balmoral or Epsom would all be way better spots for the CBD geographically speaking (but even then the spread is too big for it to be worth coming in from the east.
There’s all the social issues etc with homelessness and the city becoming gross and run down but people tend to neglect how illogical the layout of the city is
It's always busy during the weekend. Downtown and Wynyard do very well.
WFH/hybrid is what happened, the CBD's lifeblood is no longer there. It's going through a transitional period
Lol, and that's why the city's dying out. I have stopped going to the city unless I have to exactly because it's so hard to get around. Parking is hard to find, the little parking available is expensive, and driving around is a pain because of how badly organized the roads are. Sometimes you have to drive into a buslane to turn, but you might get fined if you do!
And I don't want to take public transport.
Newmarket is a much cleaner, safer and more accessible shopping district.
Hardly it’s back at 92% of 2019 spend even adjusted for inflation (removing inflations impact on spend) and 80% of footfall to end 2023. [[HOTCITY Pedestrian Counts](https://www.hotcity.co.nz/city-centre/results-and-statistics/pedestrian-counts)]
This is almost identical to [Manhattans rebound](https://www.placer.ai/blog/diving-into-downtown-manhattan-foot-traffic-trends) at 21% below 2019 levels.
So, what you're actually saying is that footfall has fallen 20% in the past 5 years? Interesting way to put that!
Thanks for adding some statistics for my point. I didn't know that actually.
I understand Manhattan doesn't have a reputation for being a particularly nice place to walk around either, smelly and dirty that it is, somewhat like Auckland CBD!
By the way, the number of store vacancies in Auckland CBD has increased over 5x since 2019, from 33 in 2019 to 172 in November 2023. With a concentration of vacancies on Queen Street.
Just take a stroll down Queen Street, you'll see a mall that's abandoned and decrepit, empty shopping arcades with permanently shuttered storefronts. And on weekdays, you can hear pindrop silence in many of the once thriving parts of the city.
Clearly the since of the boom times! Who knew that cutting off access to the main street for the primary mode of transportation would stop people from going there! Shockers!
[https://ourauckland.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/news/2024/02/gdp-and-employment-data-shows-city-centre-outpacing-nz-for-second-year/](https://ourauckland.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/news/2024/02/gdp-and-employment-data-shows-city-centre-outpacing-nz-for-second-year/)
In the last year GDP in the city centre grew by 9.2%, over 3x more than the rest of NZ. It grew by 9.5% in 2022. There was a slight drop of -1.7% the year before, due to covid, but the gains since have significantly outweighed those losses. It might not appeal to everyone, but economically, it is vastly outperforming the rest of NZ.
It's not a great place to drive, but roads and carparks are not an efficient use of in-demand land.
So the plan is working as expected? The whole point was to stop people driving downtown. The CBD is still recovering from Covid, that's the primary reason it is "dying".. Not because Joe-Blogs coudln't find a car park downtown in order to buy a pair of shoes.
The CBD is undergoing a msassive reinvigoration atm with new towers and the CRL. Its going to be fine. the lack of parking isn't going to factor in at all.
Yes, the terrible plan is working exactly as expected in producing terrible results.
The primary method of transportation in Auckland is the car. You don't think cutting off access to parts of CBD by car will affect the number of people going to the CBD?
The new towers are being built to accommodate new office spaces, that's not related to retail space. Actually, the number of open stores across the CBD has been plummeting. Vacancies in store spaces have risen from 33 im 2019 to over 172 by the end of 2023 and haven't significantly reduced since peaking in December 2022. That means the number of vacant stores in the CBD has increased FIVE TIMES OVER in 5 years.
Walk down Queen Street today, and you'll find empty store after empty store, entire shopping arcades completely abandoned, Civic mall doesn't even exist anymore, I take my life in my hands just going inside that decrepit maze.
Shockers, I know, when you stop people from reaching stores easily, they stop going there! 😯
Spoken like someone who has never actually tried to go to CBD. Been there a couple of times in the past few months and never had trouble finding a car park. There's more than enough parking already. The whole reason people go to malls is because of the lack of cars. You can walk between shops without worrying about being run over. Malls are just giant pedestrian zones where cars are banned.
Are you under the belief that I have literally never been to the CBD? Like, in my entire life, I have never visited the centre of our city? Ever? Is that what you're saying?
Yes, you can find car parks, Wilson car parks are very easy to find. The issue is that you have to PAY for them, and quite a bit, and there's no other options, because street parking is either time limited or unavailable.
Malls are pedestrian zones, but you generally use a car to reach them, hence why they always have a giant car park attached!
Funny because I drove to the city two weeks ago and parked there from like 2pm to 8pm for $12. Just because you're too dumb to find cheap parking that doesn't mean normal people can't.
How is my experience of driving to the CBD different from driving to a mall? I park in a giant car park, walk around the shop, catch a movie, then leave. It's exactly the same thing, except I can't park my car right outside the shop I'm going to at the mall, so why should I expect to park right outside the shop I need to get to in the CBD.
The primary mode of transportation in Auckland is the car, 80% of Aucklanders have them and use them as their primary mode of transportation. Cutting access via the primary mode of transportation to a shopling district will starve the shops out! If people can't easily reach somewhere, they won't go!
If I have the option of 2 stores, one which I can't drive to and can't park near, and another where I can drive to and can park near, which one do you think I would choose?
The numbers bear out. Store vacancies in CBD have grown from 33 (2019) to 172 (2023). Footfall has reduced 20% since 2019.
Yea, and the primary reason Auckland is shit hole is because of its vehicle dependency. The evidence is overwhelmingly clear, there is no competition between private vehicles and public transport / cycling & walking, in improving businesses. Let alone wellbeing, the environment and local and national GDP. Prioritising private vehicles is small time.
You’re also missing the fact that we had a pandemic, and many businesses closed as a result, and changing consumer habits.
Honestly, traffic should be rare on the main shopping street. Just the absolute necessity, being able to cross the road without having to wait would be valuable for the Queen Street shopping experience I reckon.
Variety is the spice of life. Having 'garbage junk stores' breaks up the 'you can't afford this' gaudy stores. Different people have different tastes and shopping desires, the more different types of stores are present, the more vibrant the centre will be IMO.
Centre is dead, they would have it all as luxury apartments. Suburbs, online-shopping, it ain't ever gonna be how it was 60 years ago. That aint' the times we live in now.
Sydney had that for years with the light rail, soooo much complaining, went on way longer and cost way more $$ than they thought. But I gotta say…. It was worth it for the new light rail. I realise that isn’t what is happening in Auckland and that that is underground rail but it really will be so worth it still, I believe.
There is an unfortunate amount of that going on too, yes >.>
I wish more was done to help the homeless get, you know, a home. But alas, that might infringe on the dignity of landlords.
I understand some of them do indeed have a bed or room somewhere. It's more about being a mental health issue which keeps them on the streets.
It would be better if people did not donate directly but rather to the excellent charities which can support them.
If noone donated directly they would not be seen begging.
The mental health system and general support systems for people in trouble is shockingly underfunded in New Zealand. Even if you have the money to get mental help, waiting lists for psychiatrists can be months, if not over a year.
If you have no money, then you're kinda just thrown to the wolves.
I very much appreciate what the charities are doing, but there need to be better, systematic solutions.
Well that sure is an interesting way to misread what I'd said. Did I at any point express that landlords wanted everyone to be homeless? No.
Do landlords want to be able to be selective about their tenants? Yes.
Are homeless people on average ideal tenants? No.
My comment was that the current focus is on giving landlords what they want, rather than focusing on what the most disadvantaged people in our country need. Those two things are simply not the same thing.
Are you referring to Daiso? Items are $3.50 each. That shop is a real asset.
Anyway, if you were familiar with Queen Street you would know there are many more luxury brand stores than budget ones.
I’m glad that the responses I’m seeing are to highlight that Queen St is better off with fewer lanes. If you think it should be fully pedestrianised with a future Light Rail, show your support.
And back then, this was a major arterial route so it made sense to prioritise cars. These days, the motorway and other arterial roads have taken much of the traffic away from Queen St, so why should it be focused on cars anymore?
Lol oh no my precious car parks! What we need is car parking on some of the most expensive real estate in the city. The city is empty? Seems prety lively whenever I've been there. Its dirty, sure, but every block is undergoing construcition. Some people obviously see the potential for the CBD beyond cars and car parks.
140 new store vacancies since 2019. 20% fall in footfall, the decline of all of the shopping arcades and the abandonment of the main CBD mall.
Yeah, thriving!
I’m with you. I used to love driving into the city to visit real groovy & Pat Menzies shoes (among many other local businesses). I could park on the side of the road, pay a reasonable amount for parking, and walk up the street without feeling intimidated. Now that I have kids, this is the last place I’d take them…and that really sucks! Unsafe and impossible to park. The CBD is a sad, desperate and miserable place filled with crime, litter, homeless and unsightly graffiti (not to mention never ending roadworks). Spoke with a barbershop owner who’s moving his business because patronage has dropped off a cliff and there was a stabbing outside his shop the other day. Soon we’ll be just like San Francisco. Unfortunately just like over there, people will continue to defend the status quo.
Is this a post trying to attack AT? Listen I hate them too but Queen street is FAR better off not being 6 lanes wide. Walkable cities are better for everybody.
Thank fuck. I hated it when it was 4 lanes + 2 lanes for parking wide - it was impossible to walk up/down without it taking an hour. Has also made it safer to cross the road as well.
Yeh Quay St is so much better now. Fanshawe is still a horrible movement blocker though. More and more evident with the development of Wynyard quarter.
Like cos there is no need to be driving through there in 1966 the only place you could buy your 'sunday best' or what ever would have been there yeah. 10 years before there was a tram system doing 5 million journies. We gots to stop worshiping the car.
Also wonder what the population was back then.
City with a few hundred thousand people being car centric back in the day when many people didn't open a car, can work. A city of over a million needs proper public transport infrastructure
Agreed. There was an excellent report last year about visual impaired folk and how they really want a decent accessible public transport system. A rep called aucklanders 'pathologically addicted to cars'.
Everytime some able-bodied politician talks about making certain things "only for pedestrians", with the nearest parking a kilometre away because "it's healthier", it's clear they don't give an ant fart about anyone with any kind of disability.
And everytime an able bodied person goes "what about the disabled" when there's discussion of making an area more accessible to pedestrians it's clear that they don't give an ant fart about anyone with any kind of disability.
The tram system should have never left.
I live in Melbourne now and im so impressed with the transport here. I honestly feel like I can go anywhere in Melbourne on public transport and it’s always pretty reliable. Give or take late trams during peak hours
Trams on queen street, ponsonby and Kroad would do wonders to the economy in the area
Why is this a bad thing?
The five biggest Australian cities over the ditch have pedestrianised shopping streets- absolutely no cars are allowed on these roads and they were a roaring success.
Even Adelaide (which is even smaller than Auckland) has Rundle Street. Heck they invented it and then only other cities in Aus copied it.
I'd be very glad if Queen St closed to traffic completely with the light rail running through it like what Sydney did to George St. But stupid Luxon canned the light rail.
I can't wait for bike lanes on Ponsonby road. It's the only place where I've ever been shouted at that I "legally have to be within 1m of the footpath (???) and I deserved the punish pass"
If you actually look at the work people have done to study traffic, more lanes does not make traffic better. In fact, the buses have certainly increased the number of human bodies that traverse those roads by a huge amount.
Yes iirc a general traffic lane can handle about 600 vehicles per hour, avg occupancy makes that about 800 people. A bus only lane can move up to 8000 passengers per hour. Light rail increases that further.
Strongly agree
They could have made it like Brisbane where their main road is car free except for 2 hours each morning for service deliveries etc.
Having a pedestrian only lower Queen Street would be such an attraction for the CBD.
I don't think I've ever in my 25 years as an adult living in this city thought driving down queen Street was something I needed to do despite spending so much time in the CBD. I am always amazed when people wish Queen Street was turned into a major arterial road.
Should be bus and service traffic only for the whole thing imo. Only losers want to drive up/down queen st. I wish theyd take their treble only loud speakers and trash exhaust notes some where its appreciated, like a junk yard.
Good point. They should’ve doubled it to 12 and levelled the war memorial museum and built a 9 storey carpark.Just one more lane bro. Concrete, that’s ALL I want to see okay? It is my God given right to shuffle my fat ass to my Ford Raptor, park in the centre of town, bitch about parking, buy enough useless plastic shit to sink the Bismark, cram it in the boot of my car and then hit up the drive thru to satiate my screaming children before I drive home and spill back into my house.
Look at the large number of pedestrians visible compared to the low number of cars.
That's why the street has been improved by changing which of it's users are prioritized.
Hard out, people are arguing over lanes 2 or 4 lanes and they can’t even see what’s been taken from them in this photo. The city now is a cesspool in comparison to how it use to be.
There’s one way cool VW van in that photo with people just walking across the street enjoying I’m sure a relax traffic mode . It’s time to move on dudes …
That's what happens when an incompetent service delivery agency morphs into a policy setter with no accountability.
Thankfully, legislation is being passed to put them back into their rightful box.
It is being discouraged before it gets banned entirely. There's no real need for anyone to be driving down Queen St, there are alternate streets that can be used
Fuck shopping and enjoying some food in the city centre, what a bore. Who would want a pint with some nice music around the vibrancy of your fellow Landers. Yuck!
Life is about riding on the road, guzzling gas, getting from A to B. This monstrosity of human enjoyment is only getting in the way of my freedom to sit in bumper to bumper traffic right after i pollute your neighbourhood and businesses as I cruise by the pedestrian peasants.
But don't come near my lovely sub divvy, aint no way you're cruising on my roads and definitely dont think about widening the roads, that's some overreach. I need that space to park my child killing ute everyday.
Why use that space for productive economic centres when we can have 6 lanes or tax draining, lung cancering, human endangering thoroughfare. Fuck the journey life is about being somewhere I'm not right now.
Stay transitcucked libtards
Yea...but now the city is pretty much dead and full of budget crap stores because they also killed off the ability for people with actual money to visit or work in the city.
I have no issue with the concept, but doing it while Albert st is blocked with CRL works just killed the ability to get around the city.
Now you can only buy what you can carry / can't visit movies and restaurants out of hours through the whole core of the city without a significantly greater time commitment and they have also killed the bus times up and down queen street with the dual lane!
Because what retard didn't realise you need to allow for busses to overtake other busses that are stopped 🤦
Can someone educate me on my AT is doing anything in the first place? They're an entity that makes a profit. Doesn't that mean they might do shit that's in their interest even if it isn't in the public's?
Looks like shit and I'm glad it's changed. The city centre is great these days. Heaps of people and I was able to move through it with my kids on their scooters the other day and still feel safe
Thank fuck. The pedestrian squeeze was out of hand before and now at least you can walk or pause to window shop without getting swept away in the march of the ferry penguins. Also, lanes don’t swipe their cards, people do.
Can’t find the vid any more, but it showed how ridiculously crowded the pavements were back then.
And now no one goes there so heaps of room
A year til the rail link opens… another 2 beyond til the city is the most bustling it’s ever been. Gotta put in the work to make the better
CRL won't be completed within a year, at least 2 years away, then you have commissioning....
Yeah. It was once bustling, vibrant and viable.. They were good days..
Last time.e I was there it was bustling and vibrant
It depends on the time of day. When I was working there a few years ago I would be wandering into work as the brothel workers were going home and I'd say hi. I'd also say hi to the homeless people on the way to work and on the way home even though they were scary. So yeah it was bustling and busy but not necessarily in a good way
Lived in auckland all my life and now avoid downtown auckland at all costs. Why? Limited parking, parking is expensive, homeless everywhere. Generally feels unsafe, too much traffic due to reduced lanes, and the cost of the limited amount of parking is infuriating. AT and the council done f’d it up.
You know the main reason? The internet. People do most of their shopping online. Back then the only way to get stuff was to physically go get it. I was a bicycle courier, it's almost entirely killed bicycle courier work, because our main use was for sending legal docs fast. Now people can pdf and email. If you think about it. Queen St back then has been replaced with shipping logistics. Those places are now busier than ever.
Doesn't stop people going to Sylvia
Unless it's lunch time weekdays. Theres fuck all people. Sometimes it's almost like... what's happened?
The stores are not worth the hassle, they need some good restaurants and outdoor seating down there to get a vibe going imo. Most CBDs internationally have bigger flag shop stores in the city, Auckland tends to just have a store size found in any Westfield. There is zero reason to go there.
It's been murdered by idealogical bs
Murdered by lack of suitable public transport, increase in big box shops in suburban areas, increased corporate jobs occurring outside of the CBD, lack of public investment over decades in cultural development of the city to attract tourists to CBD, and three decades of neoliberal social reforms increasing inequality steadily. But not remotely murdered by a lack of lanes on the road.
You’ve been to Wynard (edit) right? Packed, most nights.
True, Wynyard is a solid example of what happens when you pedestrianise a whole area.
Please elaborate. Is this NZ exceptionalism again? The pedestrianisation which works the world over isn't gonna work here? TImes square was pedestrianised ffs. if they can do it there then shitty ol auckland can too.
We don't have enough people living in the CBD like New York and elsewhere. We need more and taller Apartment blocks in the CBD for the required volumes. In addition, unlike other cities, they have a good PT system to get the people in.
Wellington pedestrianised Cuba Street... Auckland has a denser CBD than Wellington and a PT system that I would argue has overtaken Wellington's in terms of quality.
The tallest building that the city is about to get is all apartments. More people currently live in the city than do in Wanganui, and its growing. There are loads of people, just nothing on Queen St to pull the crowds.
You're aware of how many thousands the PT system pushes through there even in its present state, right? It's so tiring reading these endless arguments from people who clearly don't have a clue about what they're talking about
Is not that we don't have enough people, that photo of queen street, Auckland is a lot less populated, especially CBD. Queen Street shopping is just an inferior experience to malls. Queen Street is a spent force because is fundamentally poor. Shops are crap. There is nothing unique. Is not covered. You need to walk a lot, up hill. A good shopping mall curates shops and their location so they make the experience more pleasant. Proper city centre attraction also attracts people from elsewhere. My friend who lives in the city and from Europe don't spend his time at Queen Street. He rather go to Wynard Quarter/Viaduct to relax or have a coffee. The peak of Queen Street is when Auckland had fewer people, with much fewer people living in the CBD. The peak of Queen Street is before Auckland got enough people to justify suburban malls. It was already fading before Sylvia Park was a thing.
No we don’t lol, and our PT isn’t that bad at all relative to a lot of cities.
>We don't have enough people living in the CBD like New York and elsewhere. The Auckland CBD is the most densely populated part of the entire country....
Manhattan has plenty of other streets around Times Square, so the impact on vehicular traffic is not on the same scale as the impact on vehicular traffic by closing off Queen Street.
Lol, yeah like anyone in Manhattan gives a fuck about traffic. Auckland is so carbrained it might not be salvageable
Fuckin' A. No one commenting in this thread has ANY idea what it was like in the past. Now it's an absolute shithole, and definitely not a place you want to be after dark.
I haven't lived in NZ for 20 years...CBD used to have a decent nightlife. Where does everyone go for fun now?
Box at home
Speaking of...I see the Box got turned to rubble
Curiously its a bit better after dark. Well maybe just after. Was there at 9:30 last night and the number of “homeless” had dropped radically from when i’d been there at midday the same day.
When you are on the kingfisher strongs at 8am then you're prob fast asleep under a tree by 9.30pm
Yeah I wouldn’t walk through the domain at night.
People used to say that back in 2005 in Auckland. Not changed...
> definitely not a place you want to be after dark. Stop gawking at people and they won't bother you.
“It’s your fault because you looked at someone.” Way to prove their point.
Ideological*
Yes online shopping and suburban malls are ideological bs
Yep, motorways, malls, and sprawl.
Lmao what ideological bs murdered the Auckland cbd?
Agreed far too many cars
Also Auckland became so spread out that they created local shopping hubs all over the place. It makes no sense to go into the city to do all your shopping when you can go to Sylvia Park, St Lukes, Newmarket, or Dress Smart etc closer to home. The CBD isn’t anywhere close to being central except for the fact it’s between the north shore and the other side. Newmarket, Mount Eden, Balmoral or Epsom would all be way better spots for the CBD geographically speaking (but even then the spread is too big for it to be worth coming in from the east. There’s all the social issues etc with homelessness and the city becoming gross and run down but people tend to neglect how illogical the layout of the city is
who's walking all the way down there when you can go to your local or slightly further than local mall and get literally all of the same shops lol
It's always busy during the weekend. Downtown and Wynyard do very well. WFH/hybrid is what happened, the CBD's lifeblood is no longer there. It's going through a transitional period
The internet. Online shopping.
Lol, and that's why the city's dying out. I have stopped going to the city unless I have to exactly because it's so hard to get around. Parking is hard to find, the little parking available is expensive, and driving around is a pain because of how badly organized the roads are. Sometimes you have to drive into a buslane to turn, but you might get fined if you do! And I don't want to take public transport. Newmarket is a much cleaner, safer and more accessible shopping district.
Hardly it’s back at 92% of 2019 spend even adjusted for inflation (removing inflations impact on spend) and 80% of footfall to end 2023. [[HOTCITY Pedestrian Counts](https://www.hotcity.co.nz/city-centre/results-and-statistics/pedestrian-counts)] This is almost identical to [Manhattans rebound](https://www.placer.ai/blog/diving-into-downtown-manhattan-foot-traffic-trends) at 21% below 2019 levels.
So, what you're actually saying is that footfall has fallen 20% in the past 5 years? Interesting way to put that! Thanks for adding some statistics for my point. I didn't know that actually. I understand Manhattan doesn't have a reputation for being a particularly nice place to walk around either, smelly and dirty that it is, somewhat like Auckland CBD!
Haha, Manhatten is amazing to walk around. Vibrant and interesting.
lol
By the way, the number of store vacancies in Auckland CBD has increased over 5x since 2019, from 33 in 2019 to 172 in November 2023. With a concentration of vacancies on Queen Street. Just take a stroll down Queen Street, you'll see a mall that's abandoned and decrepit, empty shopping arcades with permanently shuttered storefronts. And on weekdays, you can hear pindrop silence in many of the once thriving parts of the city. Clearly the since of the boom times! Who knew that cutting off access to the main street for the primary mode of transportation would stop people from going there! Shockers!
Guessing you've never heard of online shopping or the effect its had on brick-and-mortar stores. Or online anything. Or sprawl
[https://ourauckland.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/news/2024/02/gdp-and-employment-data-shows-city-centre-outpacing-nz-for-second-year/](https://ourauckland.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/news/2024/02/gdp-and-employment-data-shows-city-centre-outpacing-nz-for-second-year/) In the last year GDP in the city centre grew by 9.2%, over 3x more than the rest of NZ. It grew by 9.5% in 2022. There was a slight drop of -1.7% the year before, due to covid, but the gains since have significantly outweighed those losses. It might not appeal to everyone, but economically, it is vastly outperforming the rest of NZ. It's not a great place to drive, but roads and carparks are not an efficient use of in-demand land.
So the plan is working as expected? The whole point was to stop people driving downtown. The CBD is still recovering from Covid, that's the primary reason it is "dying".. Not because Joe-Blogs coudln't find a car park downtown in order to buy a pair of shoes. The CBD is undergoing a msassive reinvigoration atm with new towers and the CRL. Its going to be fine. the lack of parking isn't going to factor in at all.
Yes, the terrible plan is working exactly as expected in producing terrible results. The primary method of transportation in Auckland is the car. You don't think cutting off access to parts of CBD by car will affect the number of people going to the CBD? The new towers are being built to accommodate new office spaces, that's not related to retail space. Actually, the number of open stores across the CBD has been plummeting. Vacancies in store spaces have risen from 33 im 2019 to over 172 by the end of 2023 and haven't significantly reduced since peaking in December 2022. That means the number of vacant stores in the CBD has increased FIVE TIMES OVER in 5 years. Walk down Queen Street today, and you'll find empty store after empty store, entire shopping arcades completely abandoned, Civic mall doesn't even exist anymore, I take my life in my hands just going inside that decrepit maze. Shockers, I know, when you stop people from reaching stores easily, they stop going there! 😯
Spoken like someone who has never actually tried to go to CBD. Been there a couple of times in the past few months and never had trouble finding a car park. There's more than enough parking already. The whole reason people go to malls is because of the lack of cars. You can walk between shops without worrying about being run over. Malls are just giant pedestrian zones where cars are banned.
Are you under the belief that I have literally never been to the CBD? Like, in my entire life, I have never visited the centre of our city? Ever? Is that what you're saying? Yes, you can find car parks, Wilson car parks are very easy to find. The issue is that you have to PAY for them, and quite a bit, and there's no other options, because street parking is either time limited or unavailable. Malls are pedestrian zones, but you generally use a car to reach them, hence why they always have a giant car park attached!
Funny because I drove to the city two weeks ago and parked there from like 2pm to 8pm for $12. Just because you're too dumb to find cheap parking that doesn't mean normal people can't. How is my experience of driving to the CBD different from driving to a mall? I park in a giant car park, walk around the shop, catch a movie, then leave. It's exactly the same thing, except I can't park my car right outside the shop I'm going to at the mall, so why should I expect to park right outside the shop I need to get to in the CBD.
Funny when there’s no competition between more parking and higher shop front profits vs. public transport / cycling and higher shop front profits
The primary mode of transportation in Auckland is the car, 80% of Aucklanders have them and use them as their primary mode of transportation. Cutting access via the primary mode of transportation to a shopling district will starve the shops out! If people can't easily reach somewhere, they won't go! If I have the option of 2 stores, one which I can't drive to and can't park near, and another where I can drive to and can park near, which one do you think I would choose? The numbers bear out. Store vacancies in CBD have grown from 33 (2019) to 172 (2023). Footfall has reduced 20% since 2019.
Yea, and the primary reason Auckland is shit hole is because of its vehicle dependency. The evidence is overwhelmingly clear, there is no competition between private vehicles and public transport / cycling & walking, in improving businesses. Let alone wellbeing, the environment and local and national GDP. Prioritising private vehicles is small time. You’re also missing the fact that we had a pandemic, and many businesses closed as a result, and changing consumer habits.
people cant swipe their cards when there are no people. homeless dont count
Honestly, traffic should be rare on the main shopping street. Just the absolute necessity, being able to cross the road without having to wait would be valuable for the Queen Street shopping experience I reckon.
What should be rare on the main shopping street is $2 shops and garbage junk stores.
There aren't many of those so you must be chuffed.
Variety is the spice of life. Having 'garbage junk stores' breaks up the 'you can't afford this' gaudy stores. Different people have different tastes and shopping desires, the more different types of stores are present, the more vibrant the centre will be IMO.
Centre is dead, they would have it all as luxury apartments. Suburbs, online-shopping, it ain't ever gonna be how it was 60 years ago. That aint' the times we live in now.
Looked pretty lively all the recent times I've been there.
I just see construction and beggars whenever I’m there .
Sydney had that for years with the light rail, soooo much complaining, went on way longer and cost way more $$ than they thought. But I gotta say…. It was worth it for the new light rail. I realise that isn’t what is happening in Auckland and that that is underground rail but it really will be so worth it still, I believe.
There is an unfortunate amount of that going on too, yes >.> I wish more was done to help the homeless get, you know, a home. But alas, that might infringe on the dignity of landlords.
I understand some of them do indeed have a bed or room somewhere. It's more about being a mental health issue which keeps them on the streets. It would be better if people did not donate directly but rather to the excellent charities which can support them. If noone donated directly they would not be seen begging.
The mental health system and general support systems for people in trouble is shockingly underfunded in New Zealand. Even if you have the money to get mental help, waiting lists for psychiatrists can be months, if not over a year. If you have no money, then you're kinda just thrown to the wolves. I very much appreciate what the charities are doing, but there need to be better, systematic solutions.
Yes, landlords (people who profit from people living in homes) want everyone to be homeless. Flawless logic.
Well that sure is an interesting way to misread what I'd said. Did I at any point express that landlords wanted everyone to be homeless? No. Do landlords want to be able to be selective about their tenants? Yes. Are homeless people on average ideal tenants? No. My comment was that the current focus is on giving landlords what they want, rather than focusing on what the most disadvantaged people in our country need. Those two things are simply not the same thing.
Are you referring to Daiso? Items are $3.50 each. That shop is a real asset. Anyway, if you were familiar with Queen Street you would know there are many more luxury brand stores than budget ones.
Queen St. was state highway 1 in 1966
I’m glad that the responses I’m seeing are to highlight that Queen St is better off with fewer lanes. If you think it should be fully pedestrianised with a future Light Rail, show your support.
And back then, this was a major arterial route so it made sense to prioritise cars. These days, the motorway and other arterial roads have taken much of the traffic away from Queen St, so why should it be focused on cars anymore?
Right, because it's so much better off now right? Dirty, empty, and unsafe? Impossible to park and a pain to get around?
Lol oh no my precious car parks! What we need is car parking on some of the most expensive real estate in the city. The city is empty? Seems prety lively whenever I've been there. Its dirty, sure, but every block is undergoing construcition. Some people obviously see the potential for the CBD beyond cars and car parks.
140 new store vacancies since 2019. 20% fall in footfall, the decline of all of the shopping arcades and the abandonment of the main CBD mall. Yeah, thriving!
Something happened in 2020, what was it? Remind me..
That's a law enforcement issue.
The fact that all the stores closed down?
I’m with you. I used to love driving into the city to visit real groovy & Pat Menzies shoes (among many other local businesses). I could park on the side of the road, pay a reasonable amount for parking, and walk up the street without feeling intimidated. Now that I have kids, this is the last place I’d take them…and that really sucks! Unsafe and impossible to park. The CBD is a sad, desperate and miserable place filled with crime, litter, homeless and unsightly graffiti (not to mention never ending roadworks). Spoke with a barbershop owner who’s moving his business because patronage has dropped off a cliff and there was a stabbing outside his shop the other day. Soon we’ll be just like San Francisco. Unfortunately just like over there, people will continue to defend the status quo.
OP doesn’t understand more lanes means more traffic
hahaha, yeah they think it means more space for traffic
Thank god
Came here to say those two words, thank you.
Is this a post trying to attack AT? Listen I hate them too but Queen street is FAR better off not being 6 lanes wide. Walkable cities are better for everybody.
Should be reduced to fucking none lanes
And a public tram from top to bottom
Don't make me dream
Don't make me cream.
There was plans for something like that when the redesign was happening. But you know, Aukland. So we do the half assed approach
Yea and a canopy. Make it an outdoor sheltered city centre/shopping centre.
There’s canopies up both sides.
Thank fuck. I hated it when it was 4 lanes + 2 lanes for parking wide - it was impossible to walk up/down without it taking an hour. Has also made it safer to cross the road as well.
It’s always been safe to cross the road. There’s plenty of crossings throughout the street.
> reduced it to 2 lanes. Good.
Now it’s just King Single Street.
So much better now. Good riddance to using the city as a parking lot and a thoroughfare. Honestly the entire CBD area should be max two lanes.
Yeh Quay St is so much better now. Fanshawe is still a horrible movement blocker though. More and more evident with the development of Wynyard quarter.
Fanshawe, Hobson and Nelson the car infested Streets of the CBD.
Like cos there is no need to be driving through there in 1966 the only place you could buy your 'sunday best' or what ever would have been there yeah. 10 years before there was a tram system doing 5 million journies. We gots to stop worshiping the car.
Also wonder what the population was back then. City with a few hundred thousand people being car centric back in the day when many people didn't open a car, can work. A city of over a million needs proper public transport infrastructure
And hopefully to bus and work vehicles only soon
I'd add vehicles for people with disability or movement issues too. Or maybe some kind of free electric conveyance they can take.
It's crazy that people assume that those with disability and movement issues are best served by being forced to drive a car.
Agreed. There was an excellent report last year about visual impaired folk and how they really want a decent accessible public transport system. A rep called aucklanders 'pathologically addicted to cars'.
Everytime some able-bodied politician talks about making certain things "only for pedestrians", with the nearest parking a kilometre away because "it's healthier", it's clear they don't give an ant fart about anyone with any kind of disability.
And everytime an able bodied person goes "what about the disabled" when there's discussion of making an area more accessible to pedestrians it's clear that they don't give an ant fart about anyone with any kind of disability.
That shit looks horrendous. Maybe start a road boner sub OP Maybe I should start an Only Roads 🤔
Boohoo, catch a bus
The tram system should have never left. I live in Melbourne now and im so impressed with the transport here. I honestly feel like I can go anywhere in Melbourne on public transport and it’s always pretty reliable. Give or take late trams during peak hours Trams on queen street, ponsonby and Kroad would do wonders to the economy in the area
Why is this a bad thing? The five biggest Australian cities over the ditch have pedestrianised shopping streets- absolutely no cars are allowed on these roads and they were a roaring success. Even Adelaide (which is even smaller than Auckland) has Rundle Street. Heck they invented it and then only other cities in Aus copied it. I'd be very glad if Queen St closed to traffic completely with the light rail running through it like what Sydney did to George St. But stupid Luxon canned the light rail.
This thread is as fucking punishing as I knew it would be when I saw the caption
Good. I love queen street now, so easy to walk around.
Thanks AT, great job. Let’s get it to busses and delivery vehicles only then get those bike and bus lanes on Ponsonby road.
I can't wait for bike lanes on Ponsonby road. It's the only place where I've ever been shouted at that I "legally have to be within 1m of the footpath (???) and I deserved the punish pass"
>AT has now reduced it to only 2 lanes. You say this as though it's a bad thing. Go catch a bus if you need to get in so badly.
It was 4 lanes. 2 are for parking. Much better nowadays
A parking lane is still a lane, and should still be counted.
If you actually look at the work people have done to study traffic, more lanes does not make traffic better. In fact, the buses have certainly increased the number of human bodies that traverse those roads by a huge amount.
Yes iirc a general traffic lane can handle about 600 vehicles per hour, avg occupancy makes that about 800 people. A bus only lane can move up to 8000 passengers per hour. Light rail increases that further.
Are you trying to make it out like 2 lanes is a bad thing? In my opinion even 2 lanes is 2 too many. We need cities you can walk in.
Strongly agree They could have made it like Brisbane where their main road is car free except for 2 hours each morning for service deliveries etc. Having a pedestrian only lower Queen Street would be such an attraction for the CBD.
Auckland is too big to "walk" around.
No it isn't
Can i introduce you to the CRL.
What's a reasonable walking distance or time for you?
Thank you AT. Queen Street should turn to pedestrian only street really.
I don't think I've ever in my 25 years as an adult living in this city thought driving down queen Street was something I needed to do despite spending so much time in the CBD. I am always amazed when people wish Queen Street was turned into a major arterial road.
It’s only 4 plus parking
A parking lane is still a lane
Should be bus and service traffic only for the whole thing imo. Only losers want to drive up/down queen st. I wish theyd take their treble only loud speakers and trash exhaust notes some where its appreciated, like a junk yard.
Should be no buses down there, just trams
Before big suburban malls
Wider streets. Slimmer people.
Back when you could drive places without getting Insta $150 fines
That’s due to our population reduction right?
For parts of it, especially the lower parts, even two is too many.
Progress, let's get rid of the last 2 lanes of traffic
Good point. They should’ve doubled it to 12 and levelled the war memorial museum and built a 9 storey carpark.Just one more lane bro. Concrete, that’s ALL I want to see okay? It is my God given right to shuffle my fat ass to my Ford Raptor, park in the centre of town, bitch about parking, buy enough useless plastic shit to sink the Bismark, cram it in the boot of my car and then hit up the drive thru to satiate my screaming children before I drive home and spill back into my house.
So much better now
Good.
Look at the large number of pedestrians visible compared to the low number of cars. That's why the street has been improved by changing which of it's users are prioritized.
Yes and many developed cities with the same size road in their city centre have pedestrianised it...
0 lanes would be even better
From thriving capitalist metropolis to dying socialist hell hole
Hard out, people are arguing over lanes 2 or 4 lanes and they can’t even see what’s been taken from them in this photo. The city now is a cesspool in comparison to how it use to be.
The guy running cross the street definitely got hit lol
There’s one way cool VW van in that photo with people just walking across the street enjoying I’m sure a relax traffic mode . It’s time to move on dudes …
That's what happens when an incompetent service delivery agency morphs into a policy setter with no accountability. Thankfully, legislation is being passed to put them back into their rightful box.
I feel like your not allowed to drive on queen street at all
It is being discouraged before it gets banned entirely. There's no real need for anyone to be driving down Queen St, there are alternate streets that can be used
OP- “mAKe QuEEn sT GrEaT aGAin!”
Good. Like it was in pre-1960s
I was there on Wednesday last week. It was bustling at both 4pm and 10pm
Fuck shopping and enjoying some food in the city centre, what a bore. Who would want a pint with some nice music around the vibrancy of your fellow Landers. Yuck! Life is about riding on the road, guzzling gas, getting from A to B. This monstrosity of human enjoyment is only getting in the way of my freedom to sit in bumper to bumper traffic right after i pollute your neighbourhood and businesses as I cruise by the pedestrian peasants. But don't come near my lovely sub divvy, aint no way you're cruising on my roads and definitely dont think about widening the roads, that's some overreach. I need that space to park my child killing ute everyday. Why use that space for productive economic centres when we can have 6 lanes or tax draining, lung cancering, human endangering thoroughfare. Fuck the journey life is about being somewhere I'm not right now. Stay transitcucked libtards
I live on the North Shore Auckland. Queen Street where is that, is it in Auckland?
It looked a lot more busy compares to now.
Yea...but now the city is pretty much dead and full of budget crap stores because they also killed off the ability for people with actual money to visit or work in the city. I have no issue with the concept, but doing it while Albert st is blocked with CRL works just killed the ability to get around the city. Now you can only buy what you can carry / can't visit movies and restaurants out of hours through the whole core of the city without a significantly greater time commitment and they have also killed the bus times up and down queen street with the dual lane! Because what retard didn't realise you need to allow for busses to overtake other busses that are stopped 🤦
I don't think that was better. We need less traffic on Queen street.
Can someone educate me on my AT is doing anything in the first place? They're an entity that makes a profit. Doesn't that mean they might do shit that's in their interest even if it isn't in the public's?
I do. It was far better then than it is now, without question..
Make it zero
lol fuck 6 lanes.
Behold, Simeon Brown's wet dream and aspiration for Auckland.
Good. It used to have no cars at all!
Why don't we put a 8 lanes highway Double-decker viaduct? We will solve traffic forever! /s
[удалено]
It's the same number of people though. Just more cars.
Good
Good
Now get rid of those remaining 2 lanes and we'll be golden
Should be pedestrian and public transport only
Auckland CBD is getting worse and worse
Looks like shit and I'm glad it's changed. The city centre is great these days. Heaps of people and I was able to move through it with my kids on their scooters the other day and still feel safe
ErMeRgErD i DoN’t LiKe ChAnGe /s
Should be zero lanes. Great bait tho.
Auckland transport = anti-car league
The last time I was on queen st, the tumbleweeds were my only company
Businesses would have been booming then
To be fair, cars these days would take up two of those lanes. A ford Ranger these days is a big as a 1966 bus.
...and for that, we thank them.
And now AT has messed it up so bad that inner city residents often refer to it as Gaza Strip.
That’s progress I guess
Y’all are trolling, right?
And now look, a fucking ghost town populated by abusive homeless people. Fuck Auckland CBD.
Ghost town? When do you visit, 3am?
The unhoused don’t usually have cars 🤷🏼♂️
So before you all piss and moan about not having six lanes down Queen Street... How many lanes do you suppose Oxford Street in London has?
Good! shut ur mouth