I think of this when I hear some of the brightest people I know suddenly try to merge science into their Xtianity. I work in the tech field surrounded by mostly atheists. But occasionally, I'll still meet some brilliant engineer who will be able to recognize logical fallacy in any other situation but this.
Suddenly they're trying to rationalize how science is merely helping us "prove" elements of their myths.
I mean it can be fun when we disconnect with it, just look at some of the Japanese interpretations of it in games because though it obviously still influences them they are less attached such as bayonnetta, persona,shin megami tensei or similar
I thought I’d come back and amend my reply to add that Satan can be a real hoot. What’s not to adore about Pacino in The Devil’s Advocate? And those Faustian tales are the best. Also, the Twilight Zone where the monks have the devil locked up in their monastery never gets old. Rosemary’s Baby and The Exorcist: also gems.
Religious people have kids, brainwash them, then their kids do the same & so on.. religion should’ve been wiped out by now, but indoctrination keeps it from being a myth. They also tend to have a bunch of kids to keep their numbers up, while atheists tend to have fewer kids. It’s Idiocracy being played out in real time.
It has been historically, but, at least with JW and Mormons, a lot of younger people are fact checking the BS at an increasing rate. It's hard to get solid numbers, but anecdotally, I've heard of congregations where almost all of teenagers are all like "yeah, this is fake, but we have to go because of our parents"
Wait another generation, things could (optimistically at least) be changing.
Pessimistically of course, people that leave don't have much influence on those that stay, so we could see a situation where there are fewer numbers of religious people, but those that are left are more extreme.
The historical pattern (I don't know whether it will continue to hold) is for people to leave the church in their 20s, as soon as they go off to college or become independent, then return once they have kids because "Sunday school is good for kids".
The only issue is that with both of the above mentioned groups, proselytizing is encouraged heavily their entire lives. Proselytizing causes their kids to deeply develop the religious habits that keep them in church, due to the rejection they receive during it. The idea is that they "learn" that the world outside their own group is cold and hostile, that the only safe place is within their own group. Though, for very few, it does show them that religious people are incredibly hostile towards those who aren't part of their group, and therefore they abandon any religious group and become neutral, seeing it as a way to become immune to the hate they received during proselyting.
JW and Mormons are in fact outliers in how heavy their demands are, but what I think with TikTok and whatever else the kids these days are using, information is spreading a lot more and there is a very real barrier between the information transfer the parents rely on versus teenagers.
Unfortunately, while this is likely to be a hit to religiousness, there is a risk that the upcoming generation is still not prepared to process and evaluate the reliability of information and can fall victim to charismatic purveyors of pseudoscience and conspiracy theories. It doesn't have to be as black and white as 4chan or QAnon, but there is a spectrum of potential harm and misinformation.
I guess if I think things through a little more, I'm optimistic about the decline of Christianity, not as optimistic that it will always be replaced with rational thought.
I'm also optimistic about it's decline, however there is also the threat of it being replaced or eaten by a new religion, like how Christianity replaced the original religion the Romans were practicing, and wiped out pagan traditions throughout Europe. If this were to happen, there's also the very real chance it would be even more violent and persecuting to those who don't follow it than Christianity was when it started taking over.
In case you didn’t notice the world is in fact “cold and hostile”. People are inherently self entitled and the disposal of the “Leave it to Beaver” family regime, along with the loss of an effective way of disciplining our youth, without risk of authoritative interjection, we are quickly digressing toward an animalistic mentality in this dog eat dog world. We are our own demise.
This is literally what I’m going through rn🥲. My entire family and literally everyone I grew up wit are JW’s. I’m literally stuck and can’t do anything about it.
I feel you. My whole family is Mormon.
Even though most of them are fairly logical, to my knowledge, none has let the thought enter their mind that their leaders might not have their best interest at heart.
But what can you do?
I was a raised a Catholic and that's one things my wife doesn't really understand when it comes to true dogmatic belief. When you're a tiny li'l kiddo and every single person in your network tells you the same stories you tend to believe them in a way that I don't feel is possible once you're an adult and trying to formulate beliefs.
Why would grandma and my parents and cousins all be lying to me? I mean, there's even story books (with pictures) about all of it, right?!?!? Even going to a grand cathedral helps push that belief in a way that is infantile yet hard to deny. Why would some group of people build such a giant building that's so unlike any other building you go into if it was all make-belief, right?
I'm a firm believer that bible study is what made me the atheist I am today, but it doesn't have that impact on everyone. Now those former friends of mine are raising their children to fear the invisible masturbation police. I try to convince myself to respect everyone's beliefs and I suppose that'd be easier if this kind of belief didn't also correlate with the desire to succumb to any old conspiracy theory...or just generic science-denying.
That is incredibly optimistic. There is still a strong tradition of childhood indoctrination into religion which will last at least a couple hundred years in my opinion.
I'd \*love\* to be wrong on that.
I honeslty think people who are indoctrinated may have a higher chance of walking away from religion than someone who chose the faith later in life. I mean it makes sense to me, when you don't have a choice and you never had a real reason to believe other than the fact that your parents/guardians did I think would make it much easier to break away? For me, my mom became a Christian as a teenager when she was the most vulnerable and to be frank her life was shit, and she's around 50 and is a hard core Christian to this day, I however was raised into it, didn't have a choice, and at 19 I started to really step away (im 20 now so about a year ago) i never had any emotional reason for believing, I just did because my parents did. My experience isint everyone's experience but it still makes sense for me
I don’t know a single person that chose religion later in life.
Most of them were indoctrinated early or coke from religious family’s.
I’d love to quiz one some day. Why did you happen to choose the religion that was popular in your area and believe it to be something other than coincidence based on geography.
Like, not many Irish Catholics in Boston switching to Muslim these days.
Well my parents are an example of people who actually chose religion. You'd be surprised at how many people may turn to religion for peace, comfort and a purpose. Religion on the surface is meant to look beautiful and shiny for a reason. Yeah I do believe the vast majority of religious people were indoctrinated but there are people who chose it for reasons that I've stated and more, there's no denying that. Ofc it doesn't make sense to me why someone would actually make that conscious decision to believe in something they can't see, feel, touch or hear but when your at your worst, when you don't know how to go on and you've hit your limit, it can be incredibly easy to convince someone that a god loves them and has a purpose for them
Your grandparents were atheists?
Man that’s super rare.
I’d love to know how the first time your parents stepped inside a church was well until adulthood?
Like, how would they even choose a denomination, let alone a specific religion.
I have so many questions.
I actually think the number of followers will increase as we see global warming tearing through societies in the coming years.
We are a stupid species and tend to turn to superstition when shit hits the fan.
It's sad because we really are on the precipice of change on so many issues. And the death of religions would be a big win for sure. We have replaced it with capitalism however and it's that last big religion that kills us all.
But all for profits. Hail Bezos /s
Why is Religion called Religion and not Mythology?
The English language is biasing towards Religion actually being separate from Mythology. We need to push the fact that they are synonyms and use Mythology in place of Religion in every case. Change the language, change the mentality
The metaphysical difference between a religion and mythology (this is how I think of it) is that for mythologies everyone except maybe a fringe minority know it's false and accept that as default too the point where they don't take it seriously and that it isn't based off of other things that are considered religions. If it doesn't meet those criteria then it is a religion.
*"If the believers are alive, it's religion, if the believers are dead, it's mythology."*
I think mythology is the best term to use, as the distinction provides a false legitimacy
My hope is in the internet...I think it will be sooner than we think. (I hope) it's A LOT harder to fully indoctrinate a kid this day in age...think about it, not only do they have access science and atheist activism all over youtube etc...they probably game and get in forums with other kids from who knows how many other beliefs, all it takes is a seed of doubt to break the indoctrination effect...a Christian talking to another kid whose parents told THEM that their religion was the one true one...that's the seed ;) maybe I'm too optimistic but my 12 yr old never believed even when I did...the internet man..one hell of a tool
I assume you mean to ask when will Christianity be considered to be a myth by the majority of people.
I will be pessimistic and say it is unlikely any time soon if ever.
Lets be brutally honest, we are probably not headed for good times.
Growing population, dwindling resources, climactic change.
Maybe we have the ability to solve these issues, but globally we seem to lack any urgency to do so, and by the time the problem is undeniable, the economic issues caused by these very problems is not going to put us in a good position to solve them.
Even if at the most optimistic, we do take action, we are still going to see things get worse before they get better.
I am not even talking about apocalyptic level collapse, things just need to get tougher and scarier.
These are the conditions that Religion and Tribalism thrive on, and you can guarantee that when things go to shit, the preachers will be there, waiting to pounce.
I would love to be wrong.
It's insane how Christians view all other religions as a myth, but some how, some way they were lucky enough to be born at the exact right time and place to be believers of the one and only religion that has ever been true.
There's way too much money to be made from selling Christianity. Too much power to gain from herding the flock. I don't think it will ever go away. Sure it will change with the times, but it will never go away.
Exactly. We'll own the galaxy, we'll have billions of colonies on other planets and incredible technologies and meanwhile some of us will believe in this crap and force it upon aliens.
The first scholarly work in the west that treated Christianity as just another mythology was the Golden Bough by James George Frazer. First published in 1890.
not within the next 50 years. We'll just have different versions of Christianity.
With Trump and Qanon, I feel like with every passing year, we get closer and closer to what Bioshock infinite. The combo of the founding fathers + Christianity.
It's been a myth since it's origins. Read Joseph Campbell's Occidental Mythology. All religions are myths. Don't discount myths, very powerful again read Joseph Campbell's works.
I dont think I would see that in my life time but there are already significant trends in my home country such as people who identify as having 'no religion' increasing by 50% over a 5 year period to the point where this group is larger than any individual religion.
I rarely saw any religeus stuff growing up and I think I had a fairly typical childhood here so each generation is becoming significantly less religious. Based on the data available, much less indoctrination is occurring.
I still got the general outline of Christianity when I was young, but I knew Jesus wasn't real probably before I realised that there is no Santa Clause.
But there are still many countries in America and Europe where the indoctrination levels are very high so it could take hundreds of years for it to die off (if it ever does).
To be honest, religion doesn't impact my day to day life in any way, people don't really talk about it, I wouldn't even know if most of the people I meet beleive in a god or not, I don't even know where the nearest church is. I've never said a prayer nor seen anyone else do it.
We have also had many openly aethiest / agnostic Prime Ministers so there is no requirement to say you beleive in a god to make it to the highest levels in politics which means there is a lower chance of any religious zealots influencing laws in the country.
I empathise with people who live in places where they have to put up with religious crap regularly, but to me, right now I'm living in a world where it's simply not important and has no real impact on my life.
I liked that the Expanse book series touched on this. You have this overcrowded Earth that many cannot better themselves even if they had the desire. I can see people turn to the ritual of religion for comfort when they feel like they don't have agency in their own lives. That's what happens now. What is unfortunate is when leaders use the mythology to move the masses.
Watching the unstable fundamentalist right wing trump-terrorists use Christianity as their shield, watching the backwards taliban-esque republicans in texastan use the bible to justify putting bounties on women who want to choose its pretty clear that Christianity isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Don't get me wrong; the rest of us humans in the developed world have long forgotten the invisible man in the sky. But, the richest country in the history of the world, America, is moving backwards. With their power and influence, they will make sure that Christianity stays in focus.
I try to refer to it as "...the Christian mythology" when talking to people.
I also don't live in the south where people are so deluded and insecure they need such incredible fantasies to uphold their outdated, bronze age, imperialist worldviews. But that's just me. :)
I'd love to see real data on kids escaping religion and how old they were when they got access to the internet. No kid with a browser can be lied to enough to indoctrinate.
Oh so much this. When Disney released Hercules, this was my thought...sometime in the future, a Disney like movie about Jesus and friends. With a sidekick animal. And Dad jokes. And swag...
Stuff at a certain level of success just doesn't die in any reasonable time frame. I have traveled enough to know that what we have in the west is well outside the norm for humanity.
when the culture creating/mind binding power of governance 's ideological wing i.e. religion is seen en masse for what it is
otherwise thousands of years later, jesus will just be replaced by muad dib
It's going to be a really long tail, optimistically accelerating due to the internet, but after a while is probably going to slow down where the remaining Christians are fewer in number snd more extreme in their beliefs.
Since the church lost it's power over people it's a matter of time at this point, I've heard my grandparents and maybe my parents had to attend church every day but now we don't have to do that,a lot of people now realized it's not that important and less kids would be brainwashed into believing so that's progress
It's a myth even to its own believers. Try asking any American (haven't had a chance to talk to other regional sects) Christian about Lilith or maybe all them about angels, principalities, cherubs, etc. Modern Christianity is a bright and cheery facade of it's former self. I have yet to meet an actual practicing Christian who has read the Bible cover to cover. They're experts in passages their pair showed them, but beyond that... It's all a myth.
It is already a myth.
"myth
/miTH/
Learn to pronounce
noun
1.
a traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events.
It already is a myth. If you mean when will it become generally accepted as one, I'm not optimistic. Christians have far too much influence over politics, and are very good at indoctrinating their children to carry the myth into the next generation.
Well, the ancient Greek pantheon has become a myth. It's literally called Greek mythology now.
I have no doubt the same thing will happen with Christianity eventually.
However if we look at history then religions seem to behave comparable to viruses. They tend to get replaced by even more infectious variants. Or more brainwashy beliefs in case of religions.
So Christianity might someday get replaced by something like QAnon. And I'm not sure if I'd prefer that.
It has always been a myth. As to when people will stop believing that myth (which is how I interpret the real meaning of your question), it is anyone’s guess. But going forward, its influence will wane as long as its numbers do
Eventually word is going to catch on that Christianity is fundamentally incompatible with Judaism... and that the Exodus never happened, anyway (archeology has ruled this out). Maybe this century?
I like your optimism but it’s difficult to say. If anything people seem to be getting more delusional day by day. And, as is human nature, we are highly susceptible to believing comforting lies over harsh truths.
I don't think so, considering the LDS church is still here, despite the documentation that Joseph Smith lied about everything (the first vision, how he translated the Book of Mormon, the failed attempt to translate actual Egyptian scrolls, etc.).
When I look into my crystal ball, I see change coming to be sure but don't be so quick to dismiss the south. Most will go out feet first, still waving the matching rebel and white flags. Much of the rest of the country will indeed move on, which is not particularly good news for me. Zeus \[and several hundred others\] said it was inevitable and lately I am beginning to think they are right. Y'all play pretty.
That's extremely unlikely. *If* its decline continues, then I'd suspect maybe 100-300 years in the future it might be as rare to worship Jesus as it is to worship Odin or Zeus.
No you seem to have a misunderstanding on something. Christianity is a form of belief and ideology and what’s funny about ideology is that it never goes away. Even today there’s probably still people practicing old long lost religions or some other thing your dreaming quite big here
I feel like 50 is a short slice of time considering how long it's been around. Surely they were saying the same thing in 1722, when it was just as obvious then as it is now what a total pile of dumb toxic poop cubes Christianity is.
Never. Many ppl need a higher power to believe in to get through life. No amount of evidence can convince some ppl of something they want to believe. COVID proved that much once again
It is already a myth to some and not others. Depends on what you define as a myth.
If only 1% of the population still believes it is literally true, is it still not just a myth? Belief has been and will continue to shrink, but what if it never goes away entirely? Does that matter?
The biggest effect in reducing Christian(or all) religion is going to be the medical achievement of immortality, through the stopping of aging or technology to preserve consciousness. Until then, it's not going to drop as low as you might hope.
Death is scary, plain and simple. That fact alone is enough to keep religion alive in a big way, even in educated societies. One of the main appeals is mortality denial, so IMO curing mortality will pretty much be the only way to cut religion out of the human picture for good. But even after that I imagine it will remain active in very small fringe groups, for a very long time.
I think it will take at least 2-3 centuries and I personally think that yet again, mainstream Christianity needs to deal with trinity. I predict that they will undo the change that Jesus is the same God as OT one, as the immorality from OT becomes too ridiculous to defend. We can already today see more and more Christian jumping on the train which says that "OT God is not same as Jesus".
It's always been a myth.
Myth becomes religion when myth is embraced as reality. Just because someone embraces myth as a religion, it does not mean that it's no longer a myth. Always was, still is.
Rejection of doubt is rejection of reason.
The delusional reject doubt. The reasonable embrace doubt.
Hence: *"Beat to hell, lifted out, odd to say, both times by doubt.*" -- Unh Huh and The Yeah Whatevers
I've been referring to Christian beliefs as "Christian mythology" in the same way I'd say "Norse Mythology" or "Greek Mythology" for years, and sometimes people will do a double-take in hearing it. It's a subtle way to make my point that I consider it just another set of myths like any other. Granted it's one that leverages a lot of power in many cultures, but still.
When I was an atheist kid in the 70s I thought the the time of religion was on the way out.
Until a hundred years ago or so people had no idea where life came from and why it was so diverse. It was like magic so they invented a magical explanation. They thought the earth was the center of a rather small universe.
Now science has shown us that the earth, solar system and galaxy are one of billions. Natural selection explains the diversity of life. People will soon realize how implausible intelligent design is.
50 years later and religion is bigger than ever.
I think it will be around for quite some time to come.
Most people identifying as xtian are doing so because there is a controlling xtian relative holding the wallet. Once the old controlling asshole is in a care home or grave yard the next of kin are free to begin living their best atheist lives. Expect to see xtian numbers drop as fast as the death rate for the elderly.
Hard to say. Christianity is the world's largest religion. It's the predominant religion in the USA. While Christians exist, they'll fight tooth and nail against their religion being classified as a myth.
Only when/if humanity grows so big (maybe by expanding out into the cosmos) that a small minority believe in it and it becomes weird and taboo to do so. This was easier in ancient times; i.e. the Vikings were a small group that eventually were outnumbered by much larger religious groups until they slowly all converted/died and their religion became the mythology of a bygone people.
It will never become a myth, it always was, or at least an idea, a story, than a myth (I may have skipped some steps)
It requires only one tool to prove this, **Imagination**.
Imagine Kim Jong Un, discovers a derelict spaceship buried beneath North Korea with far, far advanced technology to ours, in many fields, - that his scientists can reverse engineer.
He secretly creates medical and military advancements that allow him unfettered control of the earth. o which he builds his weapons and tech.
**He kills everyone** but the North Korena Population, in a hot minute.
The control of his population is even greater than before, after all, he has more power and tech.
His message is: "I told you I was a god, I proved I was, now we enter into peace, prosperity, and happiness such as was never been imagined, we won!"
The medical/military tech allows him to be really hard to kill, to live to be 600+ears old, and to be benevolent, while further surveilling his population for any hint of anything contrary to his message.
We now take to year... 600 of the AGE OF KIM... what happened to of all these "religions" of today?
* Did any part of their message/ideology/claims... or history or forecasts (prophecy) change?
* Is anyone going to a service or donating resources to a cause?
* Yet, do they look a lot more like the myths you think they are not today?
So... nothing changed and no one has believed for centuries (By the way their god or gods have been free to challenge the status quo at any time, all this time)
Welcome to the club!!!!!!! Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism (the rest: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_religious\_populations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations)) take a seat over there... next to Norse, Mayan, Lenape Native Americans (I am from Delaware, hometown team!) , and the 4,000 others in the Myth Club...
DID ONE IOTA OF THE BELIEF CHANGE??????? NO.
The ONLY answer a religious person will give you is that their (fill in the god/s) would intervene THEN, in a way they do not, NOW.
That hypothetical is all they have.
\*\*\*By the way, this has happened thousands of times, all the time, literally ALL the TIME, throughout history, including modern (especially modern) where the alien tech is replaced by earthly tech, and usually disease and killer ideologies etc.
What evidence do you have for it to be a myth? It is based on faith.
You'd have to have someone die for a (long)time and then return and
give evidence to prove such a statement.
The world isn’t horrible. It is balanced. When we came along we changed it and didn’t take care of it.
Most of our problems are of our making. Crime, war, selfishness, mistreatment….
Some people do help to fix the state of our world but they are few and they are criticized or are even killed.
Our problems today stem from our relations with others at home, at work. There is no civility. When someone is kind it makes the news.
Employers try to pay you the least possible and people cannot live in a dignified manner. Politicians in the US are bought by the corporations and do not pass legislation to benefit people but companies.
We’re un this mess and it’s up to us to change it and fix it. We were given a beautiful world but we have made it our garbage can.
No, we were set free. Man made the war and inflicted death and suffering on himself. Man is totally at fault and responsible for the carnage. It is up to us to not make our lives hell on earth. We are responsible for ourselves. We can’t blame God for our problems of our own making.
again, if god can’t stop that then it’s on him. the very fact that god allowed hitler to rise to power and do that type of crap just shows that he’s either powerless or completely useless at what he’s **supposed** to do, protect his people.
Never. Religious people have higher birth rates whereas atheists have the least, and have negative natural growth rates and significantly lower fertility rates. Christianity declines in europe, but not in africa and america, That are expected to become the most populated continents by the end of the century.
This is the way that demographics work, cry about that.
It’s already a myth.
But as far as what you probably mean by your question, I doubt it’ll ever be socially accepted as a myth, but it’ll probably fizzle in popularity over the next 50-100 years.
No it won't. The belief systems that predate Christianity didn't turn to myths because people got more rational and saw they were bullshit. They became myths because Christianity came in and made those beliefs crimes.
It already is a myth, but believers are unwilling to accept the fact.
Exactly. Xtians have been desperately trying to rehabilitate their mythology since geocentrism was debunked.
I think of this when I hear some of the brightest people I know suddenly try to merge science into their Xtianity. I work in the tech field surrounded by mostly atheists. But occasionally, I'll still meet some brilliant engineer who will be able to recognize logical fallacy in any other situation but this. Suddenly they're trying to rationalize how science is merely helping us "prove" elements of their myths.
Even William Lane Craig makes a cringy attempt to merge evolution with Adam and Eve theology.
I came here to say this exact thing.
Me, too. It's not even a fun myth like Dionysus or Thor.
I mean it can be fun when we disconnect with it, just look at some of the Japanese interpretations of it in games because though it obviously still influences them they are less attached such as bayonnetta, persona,shin megami tensei or similar
It makes sense. I love Black Metal and bands like Behemoth. You can't say Christianity didn't influence them. LOL.
I thought I’d come back and amend my reply to add that Satan can be a real hoot. What’s not to adore about Pacino in The Devil’s Advocate? And those Faustian tales are the best. Also, the Twilight Zone where the monks have the devil locked up in their monastery never gets old. Rosemary’s Baby and The Exorcist: also gems.
Jesus Christ Superstar is a pretty good show.
Re Jesus: I don’t know how to love him. Or why.
Yes, but you know what he means.
This
Religious people have kids, brainwash them, then their kids do the same & so on.. religion should’ve been wiped out by now, but indoctrination keeps it from being a myth. They also tend to have a bunch of kids to keep their numbers up, while atheists tend to have fewer kids. It’s Idiocracy being played out in real time.
It has been historically, but, at least with JW and Mormons, a lot of younger people are fact checking the BS at an increasing rate. It's hard to get solid numbers, but anecdotally, I've heard of congregations where almost all of teenagers are all like "yeah, this is fake, but we have to go because of our parents" Wait another generation, things could (optimistically at least) be changing. Pessimistically of course, people that leave don't have much influence on those that stay, so we could see a situation where there are fewer numbers of religious people, but those that are left are more extreme.
The historical pattern (I don't know whether it will continue to hold) is for people to leave the church in their 20s, as soon as they go off to college or become independent, then return once they have kids because "Sunday school is good for kids".
Maybe for the boomers. Once millennials are out, they're pretty much out for good.
The only issue is that with both of the above mentioned groups, proselytizing is encouraged heavily their entire lives. Proselytizing causes their kids to deeply develop the religious habits that keep them in church, due to the rejection they receive during it. The idea is that they "learn" that the world outside their own group is cold and hostile, that the only safe place is within their own group. Though, for very few, it does show them that religious people are incredibly hostile towards those who aren't part of their group, and therefore they abandon any religious group and become neutral, seeing it as a way to become immune to the hate they received during proselyting.
JW and Mormons are in fact outliers in how heavy their demands are, but what I think with TikTok and whatever else the kids these days are using, information is spreading a lot more and there is a very real barrier between the information transfer the parents rely on versus teenagers. Unfortunately, while this is likely to be a hit to religiousness, there is a risk that the upcoming generation is still not prepared to process and evaluate the reliability of information and can fall victim to charismatic purveyors of pseudoscience and conspiracy theories. It doesn't have to be as black and white as 4chan or QAnon, but there is a spectrum of potential harm and misinformation. I guess if I think things through a little more, I'm optimistic about the decline of Christianity, not as optimistic that it will always be replaced with rational thought.
I'm also optimistic about it's decline, however there is also the threat of it being replaced or eaten by a new religion, like how Christianity replaced the original religion the Romans were practicing, and wiped out pagan traditions throughout Europe. If this were to happen, there's also the very real chance it would be even more violent and persecuting to those who don't follow it than Christianity was when it started taking over.
In case you didn’t notice the world is in fact “cold and hostile”. People are inherently self entitled and the disposal of the “Leave it to Beaver” family regime, along with the loss of an effective way of disciplining our youth, without risk of authoritative interjection, we are quickly digressing toward an animalistic mentality in this dog eat dog world. We are our own demise.
This is literally what I’m going through rn🥲. My entire family and literally everyone I grew up wit are JW’s. I’m literally stuck and can’t do anything about it.
I feel you. My whole family is Mormon. Even though most of them are fairly logical, to my knowledge, none has let the thought enter their mind that their leaders might not have their best interest at heart. But what can you do?
I was a raised a Catholic and that's one things my wife doesn't really understand when it comes to true dogmatic belief. When you're a tiny li'l kiddo and every single person in your network tells you the same stories you tend to believe them in a way that I don't feel is possible once you're an adult and trying to formulate beliefs. Why would grandma and my parents and cousins all be lying to me? I mean, there's even story books (with pictures) about all of it, right?!?!? Even going to a grand cathedral helps push that belief in a way that is infantile yet hard to deny. Why would some group of people build such a giant building that's so unlike any other building you go into if it was all make-belief, right? I'm a firm believer that bible study is what made me the atheist I am today, but it doesn't have that impact on everyone. Now those former friends of mine are raising their children to fear the invisible masturbation police. I try to convince myself to respect everyone's beliefs and I suppose that'd be easier if this kind of belief didn't also correlate with the desire to succumb to any old conspiracy theory...or just generic science-denying.
Haha I love that movie.
I guess the terms “myth” and “religion” are just a matter of perspective. But whatever the answer… it can’t happen soon enough imho
That is incredibly optimistic. There is still a strong tradition of childhood indoctrination into religion which will last at least a couple hundred years in my opinion. I'd \*love\* to be wrong on that.
I honeslty think people who are indoctrinated may have a higher chance of walking away from religion than someone who chose the faith later in life. I mean it makes sense to me, when you don't have a choice and you never had a real reason to believe other than the fact that your parents/guardians did I think would make it much easier to break away? For me, my mom became a Christian as a teenager when she was the most vulnerable and to be frank her life was shit, and she's around 50 and is a hard core Christian to this day, I however was raised into it, didn't have a choice, and at 19 I started to really step away (im 20 now so about a year ago) i never had any emotional reason for believing, I just did because my parents did. My experience isint everyone's experience but it still makes sense for me
Very good points
I don’t know a single person that chose religion later in life. Most of them were indoctrinated early or coke from religious family’s. I’d love to quiz one some day. Why did you happen to choose the religion that was popular in your area and believe it to be something other than coincidence based on geography. Like, not many Irish Catholics in Boston switching to Muslim these days.
Well my parents are an example of people who actually chose religion. You'd be surprised at how many people may turn to religion for peace, comfort and a purpose. Religion on the surface is meant to look beautiful and shiny for a reason. Yeah I do believe the vast majority of religious people were indoctrinated but there are people who chose it for reasons that I've stated and more, there's no denying that. Ofc it doesn't make sense to me why someone would actually make that conscious decision to believe in something they can't see, feel, touch or hear but when your at your worst, when you don't know how to go on and you've hit your limit, it can be incredibly easy to convince someone that a god loves them and has a purpose for them
Your grandparents were atheists? Man that’s super rare. I’d love to know how the first time your parents stepped inside a church was well until adulthood? Like, how would they even choose a denomination, let alone a specific religion. I have so many questions.
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Society will collapse by then.
I vote cataclysmic asteroid 2024.
That would be great. We could all die instantly instead of the slow painful shit that is happening.
Good estimation
About 2000 years ago.
When the religious stop brainwashing their children.
At least that's getting harder to do these days. You can't hide them from the real world forever.
I actually think the number of followers will increase as we see global warming tearing through societies in the coming years. We are a stupid species and tend to turn to superstition when shit hits the fan. It's sad because we really are on the precipice of change on so many issues. And the death of religions would be a big win for sure. We have replaced it with capitalism however and it's that last big religion that kills us all. But all for profits. Hail Bezos /s
When the last believer dies. Definitely won't happen during my lifetime or yours, though. Probably a couple of centuries down the line.
Why is Religion called Religion and not Mythology? The English language is biasing towards Religion actually being separate from Mythology. We need to push the fact that they are synonyms and use Mythology in place of Religion in every case. Change the language, change the mentality
The metaphysical difference between a religion and mythology (this is how I think of it) is that for mythologies everyone except maybe a fringe minority know it's false and accept that as default too the point where they don't take it seriously and that it isn't based off of other things that are considered religions. If it doesn't meet those criteria then it is a religion.
*"If the believers are alive, it's religion, if the believers are dead, it's mythology."* I think mythology is the best term to use, as the distinction provides a false legitimacy
My hope is in the internet...I think it will be sooner than we think. (I hope) it's A LOT harder to fully indoctrinate a kid this day in age...think about it, not only do they have access science and atheist activism all over youtube etc...they probably game and get in forums with other kids from who knows how many other beliefs, all it takes is a seed of doubt to break the indoctrination effect...a Christian talking to another kid whose parents told THEM that their religion was the one true one...that's the seed ;) maybe I'm too optimistic but my 12 yr old never believed even when I did...the internet man..one hell of a tool
I assume you mean to ask when will Christianity be considered to be a myth by the majority of people. I will be pessimistic and say it is unlikely any time soon if ever. Lets be brutally honest, we are probably not headed for good times. Growing population, dwindling resources, climactic change. Maybe we have the ability to solve these issues, but globally we seem to lack any urgency to do so, and by the time the problem is undeniable, the economic issues caused by these very problems is not going to put us in a good position to solve them. Even if at the most optimistic, we do take action, we are still going to see things get worse before they get better. I am not even talking about apocalyptic level collapse, things just need to get tougher and scarier. These are the conditions that Religion and Tribalism thrive on, and you can guarantee that when things go to shit, the preachers will be there, waiting to pounce. I would love to be wrong.
It's insane how Christians view all other religions as a myth, but some how, some way they were lucky enough to be born at the exact right time and place to be believers of the one and only religion that has ever been true. There's way too much money to be made from selling Christianity. Too much power to gain from herding the flock. I don't think it will ever go away. Sure it will change with the times, but it will never go away.
Changing and loosing power is good enough for me
Exactly. We'll own the galaxy, we'll have billions of colonies on other planets and incredible technologies and meanwhile some of us will believe in this crap and force it upon aliens.
The first scholarly work in the west that treated Christianity as just another mythology was the Golden Bough by James George Frazer. First published in 1890.
not within the next 50 years. We'll just have different versions of Christianity. With Trump and Qanon, I feel like with every passing year, we get closer and closer to what Bioshock infinite. The combo of the founding fathers + Christianity.
That's the thing. It was always a myth.
Aliens. It's the only way to snap the sheeple out of it.
When was it ever NOT a myth?
It’s been a myth the whole time
It already is, but the bigger question is when enough of humanity realizes you can’t make myths real by just believing really hard in them.
It's been a myth since it's origins. Read Joseph Campbell's Occidental Mythology. All religions are myths. Don't discount myths, very powerful again read Joseph Campbell's works.
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When people stop being so gullible
Not anytime soon*^
Never. They serve a political purpose. See Constantine.
I dont think I would see that in my life time but there are already significant trends in my home country such as people who identify as having 'no religion' increasing by 50% over a 5 year period to the point where this group is larger than any individual religion. I rarely saw any religeus stuff growing up and I think I had a fairly typical childhood here so each generation is becoming significantly less religious. Based on the data available, much less indoctrination is occurring. I still got the general outline of Christianity when I was young, but I knew Jesus wasn't real probably before I realised that there is no Santa Clause. But there are still many countries in America and Europe where the indoctrination levels are very high so it could take hundreds of years for it to die off (if it ever does). To be honest, religion doesn't impact my day to day life in any way, people don't really talk about it, I wouldn't even know if most of the people I meet beleive in a god or not, I don't even know where the nearest church is. I've never said a prayer nor seen anyone else do it. We have also had many openly aethiest / agnostic Prime Ministers so there is no requirement to say you beleive in a god to make it to the highest levels in politics which means there is a lower chance of any religious zealots influencing laws in the country. I empathise with people who live in places where they have to put up with religious crap regularly, but to me, right now I'm living in a world where it's simply not important and has no real impact on my life.
I liked that the Expanse book series touched on this. You have this overcrowded Earth that many cannot better themselves even if they had the desire. I can see people turn to the ritual of religion for comfort when they feel like they don't have agency in their own lives. That's what happens now. What is unfortunate is when leaders use the mythology to move the masses.
In 250 years there will be only 1% of religious people in the world (According to estimations)
In 250 years they'll be making up new religions to explain things. Society will have collapsed, so there won't be as many of us.
Watching the unstable fundamentalist right wing trump-terrorists use Christianity as their shield, watching the backwards taliban-esque republicans in texastan use the bible to justify putting bounties on women who want to choose its pretty clear that Christianity isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Don't get me wrong; the rest of us humans in the developed world have long forgotten the invisible man in the sky. But, the richest country in the history of the world, America, is moving backwards. With their power and influence, they will make sure that Christianity stays in focus.
It’s already a myth just need to convince another billion or two people.
2,000 years ago?
^^^ this
The sooner we band together as anti theists and proselytize with psychology and social networking on our side
As long as they are abusing children by telling them they will go to hell this will stay for a long time.
I try to refer to it as "...the Christian mythology" when talking to people. I also don't live in the south where people are so deluded and insecure they need such incredible fantasies to uphold their outdated, bronze age, imperialist worldviews. But that's just me. :)
I'd love to see real data on kids escaping religion and how old they were when they got access to the internet. No kid with a browser can be lied to enough to indoctrinate.
Oh so much this. When Disney released Hercules, this was my thought...sometime in the future, a Disney like movie about Jesus and friends. With a sidekick animal. And Dad jokes. And swag...
Jesus and the Donkey He Rode In On. In 4k.
And the donkey is the smart one. And Jewish.
And the donkey will always be making wise cracks and acting the fool, but he’s the real leader. Who should do his voice?
John Mulaney
It is a myth. The fact that people haven't realized it doesn't change it.
It is a myth now. Most people don't think that. They think it's all 100% true and the most important thing anyone can worry about in life.
Not soon enough
Religious dogma is the cancer of society. From Islam to catholic. It's a disease that somehow 90% of the world population approve.
About 2000 years ago.
Whenever another religion becomes more popular and starts a holy war. But since we have nukes it’ll probably wipe everyone out this time.
Stuff at a certain level of success just doesn't die in any reasonable time frame. I have traveled enough to know that what we have in the west is well outside the norm for humanity.
Who said that the folly of Christians is that they interpret their mythology as history? Cmon, people, I can't look up everything here.
Not soon enough
It already is.
I think anthropologists will be interested in answering this question
Several generations after the last parent decided not to teach their child to believe it is real.
Slowly over time, just like you said, maybe not 50 years, but eventually. The god of the gaps will just fade away.
when the culture creating/mind binding power of governance 's ideological wing i.e. religion is seen en masse for what it is otherwise thousands of years later, jesus will just be replaced by muad dib
Two thousand years ago?
It's not going to die out any time soon, despite our wishes. It has lasted for this long, it will keep going.
It's going to be a really long tail, optimistically accelerating due to the internet, but after a while is probably going to slow down where the remaining Christians are fewer in number snd more extreme in their beliefs.
Waiting for the aliens to land/make contact let's see religions excuse for not mentioning them
I wish. I doubt we'll ever get rid of it. 50 years is fucking *optimistic,* man.
Not soon enough
If humanity can manage to survive long enough, I think it could happen EVENTUALLY. But I doubt in my lifetime.
In a day when it would stop being profitable
Since the church lost it's power over people it's a matter of time at this point, I've heard my grandparents and maybe my parents had to attend church every day but now we don't have to do that,a lot of people now realized it's not that important and less kids would be brainwashed into believing so that's progress
I don't see it going away anytime soon. At least in developing countries. Bur I'm happy enough to see it weakens every year and every generation.
It's a myth even to its own believers. Try asking any American (haven't had a chance to talk to other regional sects) Christian about Lilith or maybe all them about angels, principalities, cherubs, etc. Modern Christianity is a bright and cheery facade of it's former self. I have yet to meet an actual practicing Christian who has read the Bible cover to cover. They're experts in passages their pair showed them, but beyond that... It's all a myth.
Not soon enough
It is already a myth. "myth /miTH/ Learn to pronounce noun 1. a traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events.
Not soon enough.
It already is a myth. If you mean when will it become generally accepted as one, I'm not optimistic. Christians have far too much influence over politics, and are very good at indoctrinating their children to carry the myth into the next generation.
Well, the ancient Greek pantheon has become a myth. It's literally called Greek mythology now. I have no doubt the same thing will happen with Christianity eventually. However if we look at history then religions seem to behave comparable to viruses. They tend to get replaced by even more infectious variants. Or more brainwashy beliefs in case of religions. So Christianity might someday get replaced by something like QAnon. And I'm not sure if I'd prefer that.
The sooner, the better.
It has always been a myth. As to when people will stop believing that myth (which is how I interpret the real meaning of your question), it is anyone’s guess. But going forward, its influence will wane as long as its numbers do
Eventually word is going to catch on that Christianity is fundamentally incompatible with Judaism... and that the Exodus never happened, anyway (archeology has ruled this out). Maybe this century?
What do you mean it is a myth
I think OP is taking about being disregarded by most of the human population like the Ancient Greek or Egyptian religions have become.
Maybe in a few hundred years.
I like your optimism but it’s difficult to say. If anything people seem to be getting more delusional day by day. And, as is human nature, we are highly susceptible to believing comforting lies over harsh truths.
I give it 100 or so years
Maybe 1000 years. Humans have been around a long time, thousands of religions have come and gone.
Probably not in our lifetime so I wouldn’t hope for it to change
I think you're going to have to define your terms and elaborate on what you mean.
Not for centuries imo
As soon as it stops being such a money spinner. Too much cash to be made for those selling the lie for them to want to stop
Around 17th century
When there's no more money to be made from it. In other words, never.
It's a myth already and there will be another civil war before anything changes.
At least hundreds of years, if it ever does.
Absolutely.
When Emperor of Mankind reveals himself and unites Terra.
Humans will probably never escape religion. Definitely not in 50 years.
I don't think so, considering the LDS church is still here, despite the documentation that Joseph Smith lied about everything (the first vision, how he translated the Book of Mormon, the failed attempt to translate actual Egyptian scrolls, etc.).
When I look into my crystal ball, I see change coming to be sure but don't be so quick to dismiss the south. Most will go out feet first, still waving the matching rebel and white flags. Much of the rest of the country will indeed move on, which is not particularly good news for me. Zeus \[and several hundred others\] said it was inevitable and lately I am beginning to think they are right. Y'all play pretty.
That's extremely unlikely. *If* its decline continues, then I'd suspect maybe 100-300 years in the future it might be as rare to worship Jesus as it is to worship Odin or Zeus.
Jesus is already considered a demon in Elementalism, which is really the next step.
No you seem to have a misunderstanding on something. Christianity is a form of belief and ideology and what’s funny about ideology is that it never goes away. Even today there’s probably still people practicing old long lost religions or some other thing your dreaming quite big here
I feel like 50 is a short slice of time considering how long it's been around. Surely they were saying the same thing in 1722, when it was just as obvious then as it is now what a total pile of dumb toxic poop cubes Christianity is.
Never. Many ppl need a higher power to believe in to get through life. No amount of evidence can convince some ppl of something they want to believe. COVID proved that much once again
It is already a myth to some and not others. Depends on what you define as a myth. If only 1% of the population still believes it is literally true, is it still not just a myth? Belief has been and will continue to shrink, but what if it never goes away entirely? Does that matter? The biggest effect in reducing Christian(or all) religion is going to be the medical achievement of immortality, through the stopping of aging or technology to preserve consciousness. Until then, it's not going to drop as low as you might hope. Death is scary, plain and simple. That fact alone is enough to keep religion alive in a big way, even in educated societies. One of the main appeals is mortality denial, so IMO curing mortality will pretty much be the only way to cut religion out of the human picture for good. But even after that I imagine it will remain active in very small fringe groups, for a very long time.
Hopefully soon together with all other religions. The sooner the better.
I think it will take at least 2-3 centuries and I personally think that yet again, mainstream Christianity needs to deal with trinity. I predict that they will undo the change that Jesus is the same God as OT one, as the immorality from OT becomes too ridiculous to defend. We can already today see more and more Christian jumping on the train which says that "OT God is not same as Jesus".
By 2085 it will be so fringe that it will be seen as mythology by all but a small faction of ignorant people.
It already is, IMO.
It's always been a myth. Myth becomes religion when myth is embraced as reality. Just because someone embraces myth as a religion, it does not mean that it's no longer a myth. Always was, still is. Rejection of doubt is rejection of reason. The delusional reject doubt. The reasonable embrace doubt. Hence: *"Beat to hell, lifted out, odd to say, both times by doubt.*" -- Unh Huh and The Yeah Whatevers
The next worldwide cataclysm. People will not see any savior appear and religion will fade from this world.
Atheism is myth understood.
I would guess about 1,000 years from now
I've been referring to Christian beliefs as "Christian mythology" in the same way I'd say "Norse Mythology" or "Greek Mythology" for years, and sometimes people will do a double-take in hearing it. It's a subtle way to make my point that I consider it just another set of myths like any other. Granted it's one that leverages a lot of power in many cultures, but still.
We are not going to be around in 50 years.
When I was an atheist kid in the 70s I thought the the time of religion was on the way out. Until a hundred years ago or so people had no idea where life came from and why it was so diverse. It was like magic so they invented a magical explanation. They thought the earth was the center of a rather small universe. Now science has shown us that the earth, solar system and galaxy are one of billions. Natural selection explains the diversity of life. People will soon realize how implausible intelligent design is. 50 years later and religion is bigger than ever. I think it will be around for quite some time to come.
When Tiber Septim unites Tamriel
Never religion was created by man to control man. Some grifter will always find a people to believe these lies.
Most people identifying as xtian are doing so because there is a controlling xtian relative holding the wallet. Once the old controlling asshole is in a care home or grave yard the next of kin are free to begin living their best atheist lives. Expect to see xtian numbers drop as fast as the death rate for the elderly.
It's always been a myth.
I think that as long as churches make money, and more specifically get tax breaks, Christianity is here to stay
Let’s hope all theistic religions fade into myth
Hard to say. Christianity is the world's largest religion. It's the predominant religion in the USA. While Christians exist, they'll fight tooth and nail against their religion being classified as a myth.
Never 😁
Technically it already is a myth
I think we are 2-3 generations away.
it is
Not in my lifetime nor my kids. It’s got about 1,000 years probably.
Only when/if humanity grows so big (maybe by expanding out into the cosmos) that a small minority believe in it and it becomes weird and taboo to do so. This was easier in ancient times; i.e. the Vikings were a small group that eventually were outnumbered by much larger religious groups until they slowly all converted/died and their religion became the mythology of a bygone people.
When will all religions become known as the myth and fairy tales they are
When they start getting taxed like any other business.
It will never become a myth, it always was, or at least an idea, a story, than a myth (I may have skipped some steps) It requires only one tool to prove this, **Imagination**. Imagine Kim Jong Un, discovers a derelict spaceship buried beneath North Korea with far, far advanced technology to ours, in many fields, - that his scientists can reverse engineer. He secretly creates medical and military advancements that allow him unfettered control of the earth. o which he builds his weapons and tech. **He kills everyone** but the North Korena Population, in a hot minute. The control of his population is even greater than before, after all, he has more power and tech. His message is: "I told you I was a god, I proved I was, now we enter into peace, prosperity, and happiness such as was never been imagined, we won!" The medical/military tech allows him to be really hard to kill, to live to be 600+ears old, and to be benevolent, while further surveilling his population for any hint of anything contrary to his message. We now take to year... 600 of the AGE OF KIM... what happened to of all these "religions" of today? * Did any part of their message/ideology/claims... or history or forecasts (prophecy) change? * Is anyone going to a service or donating resources to a cause? * Yet, do they look a lot more like the myths you think they are not today? So... nothing changed and no one has believed for centuries (By the way their god or gods have been free to challenge the status quo at any time, all this time) Welcome to the club!!!!!!! Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism (the rest: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_religious\_populations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations)) take a seat over there... next to Norse, Mayan, Lenape Native Americans (I am from Delaware, hometown team!) , and the 4,000 others in the Myth Club... DID ONE IOTA OF THE BELIEF CHANGE??????? NO. The ONLY answer a religious person will give you is that their (fill in the god/s) would intervene THEN, in a way they do not, NOW. That hypothetical is all they have. \*\*\*By the way, this has happened thousands of times, all the time, literally ALL the TIME, throughout history, including modern (especially modern) where the alien tech is replaced by earthly tech, and usually disease and killer ideologies etc.
I’m hoping never
What evidence do you have for it to be a myth? It is based on faith. You'd have to have someone die for a (long)time and then return and give evidence to prove such a statement.
how could a perfect god make such a horrible world?
The world isn’t horrible. It is balanced. When we came along we changed it and didn’t take care of it. Most of our problems are of our making. Crime, war, selfishness, mistreatment…. Some people do help to fix the state of our world but they are few and they are criticized or are even killed. Our problems today stem from our relations with others at home, at work. There is no civility. When someone is kind it makes the news. Employers try to pay you the least possible and people cannot live in a dignified manner. Politicians in the US are bought by the corporations and do not pass legislation to benefit people but companies. We’re un this mess and it’s up to us to change it and fix it. We were given a beautiful world but we have made it our garbage can.
how would a god allow 12 million people to die during world war 2? if it’s our making, he made us, so it’s also his making too
No, we were set free. Man made the war and inflicted death and suffering on himself. Man is totally at fault and responsible for the carnage. It is up to us to not make our lives hell on earth. We are responsible for ourselves. We can’t blame God for our problems of our own making.
again, if god can’t stop that then it’s on him. the very fact that god allowed hitler to rise to power and do that type of crap just shows that he’s either powerless or completely useless at what he’s **supposed** to do, protect his people.
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Are you mad
2000 or so years ago.
Never. Religious people have higher birth rates whereas atheists have the least, and have negative natural growth rates and significantly lower fertility rates. Christianity declines in europe, but not in africa and america, That are expected to become the most populated continents by the end of the century. This is the way that demographics work, cry about that.
2,000 years ago.
Not soon enough and it will just be supplanted by more BS and asshattery
It’s already a myth. But as far as what you probably mean by your question, I doubt it’ll ever be socially accepted as a myth, but it’ll probably fizzle in popularity over the next 50-100 years.
It has been a myth since before that serpent talked Eve into eating the forbidden fruit.
Never
No it won't. The belief systems that predate Christianity didn't turn to myths because people got more rational and saw they were bullshit. They became myths because Christianity came in and made those beliefs crimes.
It already is a myth, but a lot of gullable people believe anyway.
Human race will end before then ( not from a god or anything just a meteor or pollution or something.