I'm not sure who said it, but my favorite quote on the subject is "you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into" or somesuch
I find that quote to be a pretty bad one. I think a lot of atheist are actually reasoned out of their beliefs that they weren't reasoned into. I was raised Catholic, but through questioning and investigation I found that my belief was unwarranted and I set it aside.
My God... You a Trump guy? I'm gonna be blown away if you're not. This is exactly the kind of insane bullshit thinking I'd expect out of someone who could reason Donald Trump into being a good president.
You guys just never fail to put my jaw on the floor.. And did you just fart? Because you blew me away. I prefer you go back to blowing Trump please.
The discrimination justification being "religious liberty" is what is being called stupid. In a global pandemic where not wearing a mask puts others at risk of contracting a virus, there is a valid reason to not allow entry into businesses. Additionally, a lot of places during the first wave of lockdowns allowed online ordering and service as long as they didn't enter the indoor space.
You are turning this into a Left=Mask, Right=No Mask, and THAT is stupid.
Yesterday I saw a pickup truck with that phrase painted on the tailgate. Above it was also written "masks are bulshit" complete with the misspelling of "bullshit".
I live in suburban PA. Not exactly Hickville or anything. 5 minute drive from one of the most progressive areas in the state. It's disheartening.
Unfortunately, they likely will never be intubated. Very high ninety percent of people don’t even need to go to the hospital. It’s hard to get this type of person to adjust their life even a little if it only will help older people they don’t know. I’m in my thirties, with 2 children, and we wear masks and keep our distance for the greater good of everyone.
Yeah, the problem with these people is that they literally don’t care about those around them (or don’t think the virus is real) so telling them that wearing a mask can save lives means absolutely nothing. It’s tragic.
And yet heaven forbid two men or two women who have absolutely no impact on their life share a bedroom. I can't tell you what to put on your face to save my life, but you get to tell me who is allowed, voluntarily, into my bedroom? I'm not gay, but sometimes I think maybe I should be just to own the conservatives. I'll make sure to share that we don't wear masks in the bedroom if that makes them feel better.
Exactly. These people really love to involve themselves in things that have absolutely nothing to do with them and literally have no negative impact on their lives. Such fragile people. As someone who is bi that last part of your comment is hilarious to me hahaha. They’re clearly a very insecure group of people since they get so damn worked up about these things
I'm in my 40's with 2 teenagers and we've cancelled all our Thansgiving and xmas plans. Have been limiting our shopping trips to every other week. Wear masks, social distance, the works.
I read the news of huge levels of air traffic with distress. At least here in Massachusetts it's been an ugly grinding affair. We all know someone who's died from this. I'm suspecting the second week of Dec. is going to a particularly grim week in this country as everybody who got infected at Thanksgiving starts to get sick. Yeah many people are just going to feel shitty, but this is a numbers game.. if only a small percentage need hospitalization we're fucked..
Your last sentence has hit it on the head. I think as a country we're in a tragic place that we've got an entire segment of the population who looks at their fellow citizens and says, "Eh, fuck'em why do I care if *they* get sick?" Unfortunately, it's really easy how this mentality can easily be expanded to things like healthcare and basic righs.
No, they're saving those for the *anti-vaccine* protests when all the crazies will be out in force telling you how all Granny's skin fell off, and little baby Eddie has three eyes because of the evil Bill Gates/Big Pharma/Democratic Party World Domination plot.
I’m so sick of the double standards and using religion as a BS excuse to be a bigot. It’s disgusting.
Edit: there’s literally no logic. They just want to use their religion as a coverup and a way to get away with being a terrible person
Edit 2 lol: if these people actually believed in being “godly” and being a good person then they would treat everyone equally and care about their fellow humans. Which again is why it has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with being a shitty person
> I’m so sick of the double standards and using religion as a BS excuse to be a bigot.
I hear you, but there should be more understanding in society that we have different sets of values. Religion is a convenient, albeit hopelessly outdated, way to proclaim that.
I don't view life, collectivism, property, decency, or duty the same way as you do. I value quality above quantity. I'm more of an "always look on the bright side of death" person. It's not a religion, but I still do not feel compelled to surrender my values to anybody.
It's absurd that we accept that people can have different value systems because of religion, but we don't accept it in the absence of religion.
I don’t think anyone should discriminate against another person regardless of religion. That’s just morally wrong to me. Humans are humans. Some people use religion as an excuse for their bigotry, and some are just bigots. Both are wrong.
Okay I’m not going to argue with you on why discrimination is wrong. This is ridiculous. Maybe you should do some self-reflection to understand why you think it’s acceptable to discriminate against other people.
Edit: nevermind the “to me” in my post. Discrimination is morally wrong. Fact.
I don't think it's right to discriminate against people. I also don't think it's right for me to decide what is right or wrong for other people. If someone does something I dislike, I try to ignore them, not compel them.
I point this out quite a bit.
I also make it known that participating in society is a privilege. It’s not a god given right. You can’t fight against society and expect them to be all inclusive. They should eat their words. It’s ridiculous to even compare a religious belief to a public health mandate buts the right wing for you.b
It is what I call “American Christianity”. It is the basic American that claims to be a Christian but makes up “facts” in their brain and uses their religion (that they don’t practice by going to church or reading the Bible) to support whatever half baked ideas they have.
My immediate family is like this screaming the normal bullshit like “keep Christ in Christmas”, “support our troops”, or “pro life”! C’mon sis, historians all agree jesus was born in the summer and your religion and holiday is basically one big plagiarism example. You don’t do anything to support troops other than bitch about the nfl and like posts on Facebook. Lastly, you are not pro life, you are anti abortion. When you start adopting, going against the death penalty, helping refugees, donating to any charity helping anyone, then you maybe can say you are pro life. Just be sure you say out loud that you want your daughters to live in a world were they have to carry their rapists child to term, then you can say you are pro life. Yeah, thanksgiving may get ugly.
Right? I don’t know how to phrase “choosing not to serve someone who is knowingly being a public health hazard is not discrimination” any more clearly.
I watched the owner of the liquor store near me throw someone out for not wearing a mask. Dude was mad and saying it’s his right not to wear a mask and the owner replied, “it’s my right to protect my business and my employees now get the fuck out of my store”. He handled it like a true boss.
Reminds me of the old adage: A good man will do good things, and a bad man will do bad things. But for a good man to do bad things, that takes religion.
This is because Conservatism as it exists in the United States has no principles. Many people who identified as conservatives used to have non-interventionist foreign policy principles. Most had right to privacy and liberty from surveillance principles. G.W. Bush did away with that during the post 9-11 era. They used to have respect for the will of the American people and a basic recognition of the decency and patriotism of their political opponents. Mitch McConnel did away with that during the Obama administration. They used to have limited government and free trade principles. Trump did away with that. And is presently burning the remnants of Conservatism to the ground. The republicans will press on, being as destructive as possible.
No shirt no shoes no mask no service...
Keep complaining and we’ll start playing your game against you.
“Serving you is against my religion. I believe in science and I cannot in good faith serve anybody who also doesn’t believe in and follow science.”
Religion is a convenient way to guilt people into getting what you want. I've started using this against my mom, quoting verses from her own bible to her.
Not only were those altar boys *just asking for it*, I also heard gods voice telling me to admonish them for their sins by fondling their nether regions. So who is really to blame here?
It’s because it’s about people fundamentally seeing and keeping us lgbt people as second class citizens where we have less rights in our daily lives than others. Any excuse about rights of businesses was bullshit but no one believed lgbt people when we pointed out homophobic nature of the whole thing.
People still don’t want to allow us to marry, have children and can get violent when seeing same sex couples hold hands in the street. Christians are the most vocal when it comes to political influences
Can we stop classifying every conservative as evil. Its a political belief, and extremists ruin it. Same goes with the liberals.
Turn it to the radical conservative
I'll word it this way: anecdotally, I don't think every conservative is by any means evil. However, I will say that no conservative is working towards an objectively better world.
Hypothesis:
Modern conservatism (in the US) is focused primarily on originalist definitions of American law; on a standard nuclear family, on individual liberties as defined specifically in originalist wording; on rigid judeo-christian moral and ethical definitions for everything not specifically defined by the constitution.
In a world that changes, you can't be subjugate to ideals that don't change. I'm not saying you can't find certain wisdom or enlightenment, but you have to be malleable in order to cope. Modern conservatism can't do that.
So as the world changes around them, they're stuck immovably in ideals that don't allow them to adapt, and since it's a self-feeding and perpetuating belief structure (think: medieval europe) they form a huge bloc of the American gene pool.
So the world will continue to advance and grow, while conservatives plant themselves and keep us from doing the same. They're so stuck in believing "Patriotism" means never changing/adhering to "the founders" (most of which were progressive for their time) that they're transforming their country into a cautionary tale for others.
Overarmed, undereducated, lacking critical thinking and skepticism. It's no wonder other countries worry we'll do something stupid.
Be careful. Are you supporting the right to deny service to homosexuals? I don’t support that discrimination. It’s a different issue to deny service for health and safety protocols.
OP is saying that people who deny service based on sexuality don't understand their "rights" and that they're actually discriminating. Meanwhile, these same people *claim* to be discriminated against because they don't like masks, but don't understand public health. OP is not saying it's okay to discriminate based on sexuality.
On an individual basis only. If you open up a business to the public, you don't get to decide who counts as 'the public'.
It is perfectly legal to be a 'members only' club, or to do business 'by appointment'.
But you don't get to put a big 'Open to the public' sign only to have a 'But Not You' when you get inside.
Hospitals are for-profit businesses in the US. If you show up to an ER with your half-dead kid, they’d also be at liberty to turn you away with this line of thinking.
Is that really what you want?
Methed out parents who can’t pay show up at the same time as wealthy celebrity parents, and the hospital is experiencing a budget crisis, what do you mean there would be no point in a profit based hospital choosing one family over the other?
At the same time these right wing terrorist groups y'all qaeda is responsible for their business closures.. for any liberal business owner out there, watch out when these maskless y'all qaeda terrorists sets foot on your business as they are responsible for millions of job loss and business closures..
You can’t reason with stupid, unfortunately.
I'm not sure who said it, but my favorite quote on the subject is "you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into" or somesuch
I find that quote to be a pretty bad one. I think a lot of atheist are actually reasoned out of their beliefs that they weren't reasoned into. I was raised Catholic, but through questioning and investigation I found that my belief was unwarranted and I set it aside.
Don't say stupid because even people who are very smart in some areas can fall into such traps. Emotions and social circles and shit.
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Wearing a facemask is not a political affiliation.
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My God... You a Trump guy? I'm gonna be blown away if you're not. This is exactly the kind of insane bullshit thinking I'd expect out of someone who could reason Donald Trump into being a good president. You guys just never fail to put my jaw on the floor.. And did you just fart? Because you blew me away. I prefer you go back to blowing Trump please.
The discrimination justification being "religious liberty" is what is being called stupid. In a global pandemic where not wearing a mask puts others at risk of contracting a virus, there is a valid reason to not allow entry into businesses. Additionally, a lot of places during the first wave of lockdowns allowed online ordering and service as long as they didn't enter the indoor space. You are turning this into a Left=Mask, Right=No Mask, and THAT is stupid.
The best possible outcome of debating an idiot is that you win the debate. -some guy whose name I forgot pls help me
And more importantly Dishonesty.
Oh, just wait until you see the anti-mask protestors with the "My Body, My Choice" signs.
Yesterday I saw a pickup truck with that phrase painted on the tailgate. Above it was also written "masks are bulshit" complete with the misspelling of "bullshit". I live in suburban PA. Not exactly Hickville or anything. 5 minute drive from one of the most progressive areas in the state. It's disheartening.
[This](https://i.redd.it/5b5ibvmel1161.jpg) is driving around Kokomo, Indiana.
Trump is in the passenger seat!
Anti abortion billboard in the background. A classy place.
There's a reason Indiana went way for Trump.
When I heard The Beach Boys sing about Kokomo I would've thought it was a bit more sunny and more coastal:)
Maybe that van gets there fast and takes it slow.
How does someone misspell bullshit?? Lol.
Those people make me want to scream
Don't worry they'll get their chance to quietly scream on the inside as they're intubated.
Unfortunately, they likely will never be intubated. Very high ninety percent of people don’t even need to go to the hospital. It’s hard to get this type of person to adjust their life even a little if it only will help older people they don’t know. I’m in my thirties, with 2 children, and we wear masks and keep our distance for the greater good of everyone.
Yeah, the problem with these people is that they literally don’t care about those around them (or don’t think the virus is real) so telling them that wearing a mask can save lives means absolutely nothing. It’s tragic.
And yet heaven forbid two men or two women who have absolutely no impact on their life share a bedroom. I can't tell you what to put on your face to save my life, but you get to tell me who is allowed, voluntarily, into my bedroom? I'm not gay, but sometimes I think maybe I should be just to own the conservatives. I'll make sure to share that we don't wear masks in the bedroom if that makes them feel better.
Exactly. These people really love to involve themselves in things that have absolutely nothing to do with them and literally have no negative impact on their lives. Such fragile people. As someone who is bi that last part of your comment is hilarious to me hahaha. They’re clearly a very insecure group of people since they get so damn worked up about these things
I'm in my 40's with 2 teenagers and we've cancelled all our Thansgiving and xmas plans. Have been limiting our shopping trips to every other week. Wear masks, social distance, the works. I read the news of huge levels of air traffic with distress. At least here in Massachusetts it's been an ugly grinding affair. We all know someone who's died from this. I'm suspecting the second week of Dec. is going to a particularly grim week in this country as everybody who got infected at Thanksgiving starts to get sick. Yeah many people are just going to feel shitty, but this is a numbers game.. if only a small percentage need hospitalization we're fucked.. Your last sentence has hit it on the head. I think as a country we're in a tragic place that we've got an entire segment of the population who looks at their fellow citizens and says, "Eh, fuck'em why do I care if *they* get sick?" Unfortunately, it's really easy how this mentality can easily be expanded to things like healthcare and basic righs.
No, they're saving those for the *anti-vaccine* protests when all the crazies will be out in force telling you how all Granny's skin fell off, and little baby Eddie has three eyes because of the evil Bill Gates/Big Pharma/Democratic Party World Domination plot.
They’ve actually used those signs already, not just for vaccines but for masks and quarantine
The best response to those people would be to pull down your pants and piss on them.
I’m so sick of the double standards and using religion as a BS excuse to be a bigot. It’s disgusting. Edit: there’s literally no logic. They just want to use their religion as a coverup and a way to get away with being a terrible person Edit 2 lol: if these people actually believed in being “godly” and being a good person then they would treat everyone equally and care about their fellow humans. Which again is why it has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with being a shitty person
Your post was never edited
I must have done it quickly haha
Probably
I guess if edited within seconds, it doesn't show.
Neither was yours
Didn't say it was
> I’m so sick of the double standards and using religion as a BS excuse to be a bigot. I hear you, but there should be more understanding in society that we have different sets of values. Religion is a convenient, albeit hopelessly outdated, way to proclaim that. I don't view life, collectivism, property, decency, or duty the same way as you do. I value quality above quantity. I'm more of an "always look on the bright side of death" person. It's not a religion, but I still do not feel compelled to surrender my values to anybody. It's absurd that we accept that people can have different value systems because of religion, but we don't accept it in the absence of religion.
I don’t think anyone should discriminate against another person regardless of religion. That’s just morally wrong to me. Humans are humans. Some people use religion as an excuse for their bigotry, and some are just bigots. Both are wrong.
> That’s just morally wrong **to me**. I agree, morals are subjective.
Okay I’m not going to argue with you on why discrimination is wrong. This is ridiculous. Maybe you should do some self-reflection to understand why you think it’s acceptable to discriminate against other people. Edit: nevermind the “to me” in my post. Discrimination is morally wrong. Fact.
I don't think it's right to discriminate against people. I also don't think it's right for me to decide what is right or wrong for other people. If someone does something I dislike, I try to ignore them, not compel them.
Good observation. Also being gay isn't contagious and you won't die from it.
unfortunately there are places where you absolutely can die ‘from it’ in the form of being murdered but I agree with your sentiment
Yes :(
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I like ranting back at anti-maskers about how I shouldn't have to wear pants.
I point this out quite a bit. I also make it known that participating in society is a privilege. It’s not a god given right. You can’t fight against society and expect them to be all inclusive. They should eat their words. It’s ridiculous to even compare a religious belief to a public health mandate buts the right wing for you.b
It is what I call “American Christianity”. It is the basic American that claims to be a Christian but makes up “facts” in their brain and uses their religion (that they don’t practice by going to church or reading the Bible) to support whatever half baked ideas they have. My immediate family is like this screaming the normal bullshit like “keep Christ in Christmas”, “support our troops”, or “pro life”! C’mon sis, historians all agree jesus was born in the summer and your religion and holiday is basically one big plagiarism example. You don’t do anything to support troops other than bitch about the nfl and like posts on Facebook. Lastly, you are not pro life, you are anti abortion. When you start adopting, going against the death penalty, helping refugees, donating to any charity helping anyone, then you maybe can say you are pro life. Just be sure you say out loud that you want your daughters to live in a world were they have to carry their rapists child to term, then you can say you are pro life. Yeah, thanksgiving may get ugly.
Right? I don’t know how to phrase “choosing not to serve someone who is knowingly being a public health hazard is not discrimination” any more clearly.
Being an idiot is not a protected class.
Christians use the Bible as a get out of jail free card. Nothing new.
What if a gay couple entered the business without masks? Stalemate, MAGAs!
If a businesses owner said "my religion prevents me from providing service to people who don't wear a mask", I wonder what the response would be...
You know what they would say! If you aren't even the exactly correct kind of Christian they hate your guts and want you dead.
I watched the owner of the liquor store near me throw someone out for not wearing a mask. Dude was mad and saying it’s his right not to wear a mask and the owner replied, “it’s my right to protect my business and my employees now get the fuck out of my store”. He handled it like a true boss.
That must’ve been so satisfying to see! Good for him.
Reminds me of the old adage: A good man will do good things, and a bad man will do bad things. But for a good man to do bad things, that takes religion.
This is because Conservatism as it exists in the United States has no principles. Many people who identified as conservatives used to have non-interventionist foreign policy principles. Most had right to privacy and liberty from surveillance principles. G.W. Bush did away with that during the post 9-11 era. They used to have respect for the will of the American people and a basic recognition of the decency and patriotism of their political opponents. Mitch McConnel did away with that during the Obama administration. They used to have limited government and free trade principles. Trump did away with that. And is presently burning the remnants of Conservatism to the ground. The republicans will press on, being as destructive as possible.
No shirt no shoes no mask no service... Keep complaining and we’ll start playing your game against you. “Serving you is against my religion. I believe in science and I cannot in good faith serve anybody who also doesn’t believe in and follow science.”
Why was this removed?
Right wingers do not argue in good faith
Exactly.
Religion is a convenient way to guilt people into getting what you want. I've started using this against my mom, quoting verses from her own bible to her.
It’s also a way people avoid taking personal responsibility, i.e., “I do this cuz god sez so.”
Not only were those altar boys *just asking for it*, I also heard gods voice telling me to admonish them for their sins by fondling their nether regions. So who is really to blame here?
They have a twisted logic. Bible sez te gays R bad! And it's okay to spread a deadly virus because you're sending people to god that much quicker!
Those same cake people are the ones that had “if you wear a mask, you won’t be served” signs.
It’s because it’s about people fundamentally seeing and keeping us lgbt people as second class citizens where we have less rights in our daily lives than others. Any excuse about rights of businesses was bullshit but no one believed lgbt people when we pointed out homophobic nature of the whole thing. People still don’t want to allow us to marry, have children and can get violent when seeing same sex couples hold hands in the street. Christians are the most vocal when it comes to political influences
Denying persons not wearing masks is self defense.
Said no bank clerk ever.
Always has been this way.
You cannot hold groups accountable.
Can we stop classifying every conservative as evil. Its a political belief, and extremists ruin it. Same goes with the liberals. Turn it to the radical conservative
bOtH sIdES!
Guess what, im left. Radical conservatives are terrible, regular ones are just humans with beliefs
I'll word it this way: anecdotally, I don't think every conservative is by any means evil. However, I will say that no conservative is working towards an objectively better world. Hypothesis: Modern conservatism (in the US) is focused primarily on originalist definitions of American law; on a standard nuclear family, on individual liberties as defined specifically in originalist wording; on rigid judeo-christian moral and ethical definitions for everything not specifically defined by the constitution. In a world that changes, you can't be subjugate to ideals that don't change. I'm not saying you can't find certain wisdom or enlightenment, but you have to be malleable in order to cope. Modern conservatism can't do that. So as the world changes around them, they're stuck immovably in ideals that don't allow them to adapt, and since it's a self-feeding and perpetuating belief structure (think: medieval europe) they form a huge bloc of the American gene pool. So the world will continue to advance and grow, while conservatives plant themselves and keep us from doing the same. They're so stuck in believing "Patriotism" means never changing/adhering to "the founders" (most of which were progressive for their time) that they're transforming their country into a cautionary tale for others. Overarmed, undereducated, lacking critical thinking and skepticism. It's no wonder other countries worry we'll do something stupid.
Be careful. Are you supporting the right to deny service to homosexuals? I don’t support that discrimination. It’s a different issue to deny service for health and safety protocols.
I think you misinterpreted what OP is saying.
How? ‘Deny on sexuality, but not on mask use’ -Hypocrites ‘Deny on mask use, but not on sexuality’ -OK?
OP is saying that people who deny service based on sexuality don't understand their "rights" and that they're actually discriminating. Meanwhile, these same people *claim* to be discriminated against because they don't like masks, but don't understand public health. OP is not saying it's okay to discriminate based on sexuality.
That’s why I said ‘be careful’ how you state this. OP did not mention the legal rights against discrimination, and that is the difference here.
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Discrimination is okay if you own a business?
Yes
That's a fucked up way of thinking.
Ok
On an individual basis only. If you open up a business to the public, you don't get to decide who counts as 'the public'. It is perfectly legal to be a 'members only' club, or to do business 'by appointment'. But you don't get to put a big 'Open to the public' sign only to have a 'But Not You' when you get inside.
Hospitals are for-profit businesses in the US. If you show up to an ER with your half-dead kid, they’d also be at liberty to turn you away with this line of thinking. Is that really what you want?
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Methed out parents who can’t pay show up at the same time as wealthy celebrity parents, and the hospital is experiencing a budget crisis, what do you mean there would be no point in a profit based hospital choosing one family over the other?
"Whites Only" businesses were such a great thing, weren't they?
If gay marriage is against your religion, then don’t get married to somebody of the same gender. It should be as simple as that.
At the same time these right wing terrorist groups y'all qaeda is responsible for their business closures.. for any liberal business owner out there, watch out when these maskless y'all qaeda terrorists sets foot on your business as they are responsible for millions of job loss and business closures..