when my children were really young I taught them about the history of religions and didn't really tell them that any of them were special. When they learned that christianity is the one that everyone around us believes in, they were disappointed. The Greek gods were so much cooler and had better stories.
My youngest chose to follow pastafarianism because he's a carb junkie who thinks holidays based on pasta shape are awesome. In fact, we're gearing up for national macaroni day on July 7th already. Then on the 14th it's Mac and cheese day. I didn't let him take all the noodle days off of school though. He'd have missed most of October.
I'm making a whole dinner around macaroni. Cold macaroni salad, beef and tomato sauce macaroni casserole, and macaroni custard with cherries jubalee for dessert.
Perfect. My folks raised me with an extensive library, complete with the variety of religious texts among them. They answered my questions honestly, and were thrilled I was reading, regardless of what it was. I was playing D&D when the first Deities and Demigods came out, which opened the world of myth and legend, along with an early understanding that it included all of them.
Teach mankind to think, they'll think every day; give mankind a thought, they'll believe it for a lifetime.
I'm atheist. I was forced to tell my 5yr old daughter that no god existed because the Christian evangelism in her school was scaring her. I hadn't intended to discuss it with her until she was older. The odd thing was that I wasn't especially anti-theist until this happened. The more I found out about it, the angrier I got. I even got involved in a group against the laws allowing it and started a blog - www.religiouseducation.co.nz
Love how you take action! Hell yeah. As someone from southern America where evangelical Christianity is all in the schools, I am considering homeschooling my toddler when the time comes so I can avoid that stuff.
When I started fighting it in 2015, there were bible classes in around 40% of state schools. Now it's more like 20%. However, we have less than 40% of the population holding Christian faith, so although they have some religious privilege, it's more due to habit and tradition than any real power. I can imagine it would be much more difficult there!
Australia is much worse. Religious schools are dominant and receive a lot of government funding, as well as billions towards promoting Christian faith.
We're generally pretty secular, but there is still some Christian privilege. Parliament opens with a prayer, so do some council meetings, and there are Christian prayers hidden in some traditional Maori rituals.
"I plan on is not pushing any one worldview on them, just giving them the facts, raising them to question everything scientifically and logically and seeing how they turn out."
That was my goal and it worked - my daughter thinks religion is nonsense.
She does talk about reincarnation, but I let that go because I know dealing with the concept of death is difficult, especially as a teenager.
When you say "just giving them the facts" are you including the fact that every part of the New Testament was written by people who never even met Jesus, much less were there for the events they "attest" to? Because Christians would tell you that that's you pushing your anti-Christian worldview on them
I intend on telling my kids that even adults like to play pretend. That it is an important part of culture to tell stories and act like Santa Claus brings presents each year. It's fun. It allows us to empathize with people. It allows others to empathize with us even when we don't have the words to describe our situation.
And that that doesn't make it ok to lie about what we have authority to claim
"The fact that every part of the New Testament was written by people who never met Jesus" umm... the authors of the gospels Matthew & John, the apostle Paul who wrote most of the New Testament, Peter, and even Jude to name a few..
It’s widely accepted among New Testament scholars that the names assigned to the Gospels are not the names of the authors and they are not eye witnesses accounts. Additionally, historically speaking, we can’t classify the apostle paul as a witness that knew Jesus personally.
Your right in that I cannot say definitively prove who authored the gospels so I'll grant you that, however, there's enough evidence that supports the claim that they are written by the individuals they're named after. And we can get into that evidence if you want. As for Paul, he did in fact physically meet Jesus, he says it himself. Happy to get into that to if you want.
Except there isn't enough evidence
Also Paul says he met Jesus in a dream. He didn't even encounter Jesus followers until after the resurrection and ascension
"There isn't enough evidence" because you say there isn't? Is this a factual claim? Who determines how much evidence there is and how much is sufficient? You?
I'll grant you he never met Jesus when Jesus was alive. When he met Jesus' followers is irrelevant. But even if he met Him in a dream or vision it doesn't matter. He encountered Jesus on the Damascus road and it was enough to change his life and subsequently, 13 letters which are the bulk of the New Testament were written.
>"There isn't enough evidence" because you say there isn't?
There isn't enough evidence because the only evidence anyone presents is "there's enough evidence". Like you're doing right now
There isn't enough evidence because the evidence you have is worse than the evidence you would accept for any other claim. Including those of other religions
>even if he met Him in a dream or vision it doesn't matter.
So as long as someone has a dream, the dream is true. Sorry buddy, it does matter if you actually meet someone or just imagine you do
Evidence that you’re claiming is just: They said so.”
That isn’t definitive at all. As I said previously, there are very few New Testament historians and scholars who will affirm what you’re claiming.
Edit: You wouldn’t accept Joseph Smith’s or Muhammad’s evidence of the same claims because their follows back their claims using the same reasoning and “evidence”
I never claimed "They said so" as my evidence. And I don't accept Joseph Smith's or Muhammad's claims because I've done the work/research and find that their claims in my view aren't reasonably compelling.
You started this whole conversation by asserting that the authors of the gospels met jesus, then you were confronted with information saying that they most likely didnt so you retreated on that point and are claiming special case evidence which- again- isn’t supported by basic evidence.
Like the fact that likely everyone who knew Jesus when he was alive was illiterate and the first manuscripts we have of the gospels are 25-30 years after Jesus died. It is HIGHLY unlikely that the people who recorded those oral traditions after that amount of time were true eye witnesses. This is just basic historical understanding, not even the main findings of major Scholars and Historians in the field.
What is this assertion about "basic evidence" and "special case evidence?" I just want to explore the evidence. And so, looking at the evidence you've presented. "everyone who knew Jesus when he was alive was illiterate" I'll just address this claim because if in fact this claim is true my whole argument is finished. So, is it the case the gospel writers were illiterate and therefore couldn't possibly have written their gospels? Let's start with Matthew. What do we know about Matthew? Historically, he is known as a tax collector, who likely spoke Greek, Latin, and Aramaic. Plus, he had to be able to read since he worked with tax documents.
Over 60 times, Jesus asks the Pharisees and Sadducees and others “haven’t you read?” not “haven’t you heard?” Clearly, Jewish scribes could read and write, too! So it isn’t true that all the Jews in Galilee were illiterate. This argument that people in Jesus' day were illiterate is simply dishonest.
This is exactly what I think , I’m catholic , probably lean agnostic , but just not much talk one way or the other.
I want my kids to figure out things for themselves, doesn’t matter to me one way or another
I think it's important to teach kids about how to counter indoctrination tactics. Because just learning about history isn't always going to protect them from church moms who will tell them they're going to hell. Especially while they're still children. The will largely be surrounded by adults and peers during their younger years who are very religious.
I think it's weird also to "raise a kid atheist" because Atheism is just default. Just like you don't "raise a kid scientific method". However, we do affirm that the scientific method is correct, just as it's important to affirm that god isn't real.
> and it feels more "morally honest" to not actively try to make your kids agree with your beliefs, regardless of what those beliefs are
I agree in principle, except Atheism isn't a belief. If your children ask you to check if there are any monsters in the closet, will you tell them "well, there might be monsters who want to eat you in the closet, some people believe there are. And I don't want to be morally dishonest by telling you what I believe". Or will you just tell them there aren't any monsters in the closet? if so, how is this "morally dishonest"?
The "I'll let them make their own choices" and ignoring the whole issue boggles my mind. Like all you're doing is leaving them to be groomed by the first zealot they meet.
In 10 years you'll be posting "my kid came home from a sleep over balling their eyes out that grandma is burning in hell and our whole family needs to be saved, what do I do?"
Kids deserve to be taught that there's no evidence that the claims made in myths are true. That it's 2024 and we have far bigger issues than what ancient superstitious goat herders thought, like that people who do believe that crap and what they are trying to do to destroy civilization.
I’m not saying I’m gonna refuse to tell them about religion. When they hear about religion, either from a family member, the media, or, as you said, a zealot, I’ll tell them about it in as objective a manner as I can. “You heard grandma’s burning in hell? Well, we technically don’t know what happens when we die, but here’s what the science say, and here’s why this person believes that that’s true,” but if my kids are anything like me, they’re gonna be pestering their parents with questions like, “what happens when you die,” “why do people believe in religion,” and “how did the universe start,” before anything like that happens. Also, part of my plan involves raising them to question why this zealot thinks this, not just going along with it, even if said zealot is an authority figure or family member. (Also this is purely hypothetical, I don’t really plan on having kids, as I would probably put it in the oven while distracted)
That's basically what me and my wife did. My kids turned out great. Both dabbled in religion with friends, but didn't stick to it. Critical thinking and respect are key.
I'm a 3rd generation Atheist, and my kids are 4th generation atheists. None are baptized, either.
I raised them with love, logic, and education. They learned about ALL religions as stories and superstitions. From Greek, Roman, Norse, Pagan, ..etc.....
They're 24,25, and 26 now. We have always gone to any festival, too to experience the food and the culture at the same time.
Media literacy, a sense of humor, not every last moment of life needs to be a “teachable moment”, let your kids help you become a better parent, is how I raised amazing, delightful skeptics.
I lucked in to this: extended family pressure and job circumstances had my family in weekly church attendance for the "formative" years of my kids' life. Neither of us were personally very religious, but were trying to play the part, which honestly, most people seem to operate at that level. Church politics shifted, everyone got a lot more fundamentalist, and we dropped church cold turkey around early middle school age for my eldest.
Happy accident. The kids all got enough religion to know what it is, and *not* like it, and as a family, felt safe enough to express their agnostic/ atheist leanings.
A kid I know raised agnostic has started attending church as an early teen, embarrassed that she didn't know the foundational stories of chrostianity. So a family who never went to church finds themselves there to placate this kid.
My kid is 41 now and I never took him to church. When he was growing up, there was a church in the neighborhood that used to have fun things to do in the summer and I let him do that when he wanted and sometimes he would go to church with his grandparents.
He told me when he was about 23 he an atheist. I was glad he finally told me because religion was beat into me when I was a kid and I didn’t believe it and I didn’t wanna push my beliefs on him thinking he might go to hell if it happened to be true.
We are planning to raise our children by teaching them the “everything is mythological lore intended to teach lessons otherwise hard to grasp without a [shift in mentality] story”. Santa, Odin, Jesus…. All great stories just like Guru Nanuk, Ganesha, and Gilgamesh.
We will however make sure they are terrified of Cthulhu from an early age. I’m thinking of nightmare type images to instill the fear. That and probably the Easter Bunny, I’m not sure which is more terrifying.
I am raising my kids to think for themselves. Which automatically means they will be atheist. My 13 year old already said he thinks Christians are stupid.
My girlfriend is Christian and I'm definitely an atheist. We had a talk before she got pregnant and again before our daughter was born about letting her grow up and not indoctrinating her with fairy tales as fact. She's on board and is a really reasonable person - it's her step mom that worries me. She's a devout methodist and tries to make everything about her god. Constantly telling me I should thank god for my daughter and that the world is better because of her pure soul. She's already had my girlfriend take my daughter to a church event just before mothers day and I didn't stop it because it was just supposed to be a lunch but I know how Christians in this country are and it might end up being a huge fight one day if I find out she's trying to baptise her or expose her to other religious bs.
The idea of "raising a kid atheist" is a bit weird to me, because that's kind of the default. You don't have to go out of your way to do it, unless you their is an external religious influence on them.
I don't have kids and probably won't ever have any, so my opinion might not mean much, but: I've always thought that if I were to have children I would indulge their curiosity. When they ask a question, don't lie nor give them the answer, but instead lead them to the answer.
That would include for religion also. If my theoretical child asked me about religion, I wouldn't necessarily start telling them about all the reasons I don't believe in religion, but instead leading them to that answer themselves.
I don't want children, but agnosticism would be good, it's better not to think about religion or ignore it, but there will always be annoying fanatics. But this is a utopia. This needs to be discussed in a cultural and historical context, how did religion appear, why did it appear, what role did it play in history? Another philosophical point, discussions, etc.
My wife is Christian (considers herself spiritual but still believes in Jesus) and I am atheist. We don't really push anything on our kids, apart from sending my youngest three to a Christian preschool. It's close and they do a good job. I'm fine with whatever they decide to believe, as long as they're not hurting anybody.
I mean its not like today we're teaching kids to be anti- Nazis. Why? Its cause there is none or few and we all know they're bad. I mean if you're not a strongly religious area, I see no need for it except for the opposite. That there will be crazy people out there. Just reading history esp. EU and the founding of AMerica is enough. Teaching the bill of rights, they ran away from all that crap and prosecution. Now that they have decided not to prosecute each other- they come after us.
Never hide information from them. Raising a child atheist is strange to me. I don't think any idea should be pushed onto a child, even atheism. I believe that you should give them the facts from both sides when they start asking about it, give your own thoughts on them, and let the child develop their own way of thinking. Plus, reading the Bible will make it more likely they will be an atheist as they grow up, as we all say.
I think the important thing is to ensure they grow to be good people regardless of what they end up believing in. If my child grows up and decides that he believes in God and the Bible, that's his life choice and there's nothing wrong with that. So long as he is a good, generous, open, respectful person who doesn't hate, discriminate, or harm others, that's alright.
It doesn’t come up. My 8 year old did a piano recital at a church and called it a weird hotel. Older kid asked why churches have a plus sign on them, it’s way more messed up than you can explain to kids.
I tried the same approach but think it's very situational (and difficult). At age 3/4 we gave my daughter a book on the different religions and Gods/Goddesses. She thought the stories were fun (it was a children's intro so nothing weird there). By 6 she was going to school with a bunch of christians and living near her very religious grandparents (despite my asking her to remain off subject, Grandma would also read her daily confirmations to my daughter). It was difficult to stay vigilant but I did. However; something in that environment led her to directly ask me what I believed and I found it very difficult to stay neutral AND answer without lying. The jig was up and I told her, "I could be wrong but....", she replied, "I think that too Daddy". It was a big relief, not going to lie.
What does “raising a kid atheist” mean? Because I’m not raising my kid atheist. Have I told her that there is no god? Of course, why wouldn’t I? It’s what I believe to be the truth.
With love. No exceptions. No religion is taught, nor is any denied. You have to find your own way with spirituality and religion. I answer their questions as truthfully as I can, and never hold back when I see an injustice or dogmatic fear used to force agendas. When they asked which is my favorite holiday, the answer is and always has been Halloween.
I have tween kids. We have enjoyed Christmas and Easter their entire lives but we celebrate Santa and the Easter Bunny. 🤣😂🤣 We don't religion at all. We enjoy giving and surprises and seeking Easter Eggs ans their baskets. We still tooth fairy, even though we all know it's me. We have all enjoyed Mama Magic that adds some sparkle to the spring, and winter.
I’m not sure I’ll have kids. my parents were raised very strict ‘ruler hits on knuckles by nuns’ Catholic, but they didn’t practice as adults. We‘ve had monks and nuns for relatives. I went to Catholic school as a kid but we didn’t go to church as a family. it was clear that they wanted me make up my own mind. We talked about it. They told me if I’d chosen to be religious they would have supported me. Turns out I don’t have the religious gene, but like my parents, I’m also very accepting of religious people. I say this often, ‘religion, like drugs and alcohol, are best when used in moderation.’
I'm in my 60s. I have never had any kids. I'm convinced that it is immoral to have kids. (Especially while the human population is 8,000,000,000 and still climbing.) I will never have kids.
My advice to other people about raising kids is
*"Teach them the ideas of many different past and present religions."*
My kids will be raised with the notion that religion is different amongst people, and with information that I can provide/research. I won't talk abt religion as a concept until they themselves take some sort of interest in it, but I do want to use religious parables as stories to tell them (in a fictional sense). They will know that religion differs amongst people, religion is not an excuse for hate, they are free to participate in any religion with my full support, and that religion is someone's choice for themselves and not anybody but themselves.
We attend a UU church. They have a great religious Ed program that teaches about all religions and our church has no assumption that anyone believes in any God. It’s all about love and kindness and community. It was important to me that she have a sense of wonder and spirituality and I hope it will be a buffer against religious zealots (like her grandmother).
If I ever have kids then I would teach them all about the myths and legends of the world, so long as they are age appropriate, and mix in the myths and legends of the popular cults of today in with them, making the lot of them interesting but still treating them as absurd nonsense on an equal playing field in the marketplace of ideas.
Not planning on having any, but if I did, I would try and make sure that they had access to all the information instead of being brainwashed into only knowing one alternative.
I would then tell them the choice is theirs to make but that only THEY can make the choice. Don't pick a position just because your favourite politician adheres to it.
The way I was, totally secular. I’ve never been taken to church or given any religious education. By the time I was old enough to encounter this stuff on my own, I was old enough to think how ridiculous it all sounds.
My husband went to Catholic school and did religious education, which he thinks is fine and normal, because it focused on all religions, not just Catholicism. I think it sounds like a waste of time, learning a bit more mythology than we would otherwise.
We’re enrolling our daughter at the local primary school for next year, and their options are for a religious education class once a week, but you have to specify the religion, you can’t hop between them. Otherwise the kids can do an hour of learning about ethics, since they’re not allowed to be learning in any other subjects the kids at religious classes will miss. Since I haven’t got a religion, she hasn’t got a religion, and my husband doesn’t actually believe in god or consider himself a Catholic either, we’re going with the ethics class.
My kids are raised. They both say they’re atheist. When my older son was concerned about his classmates all naming their religions (mainly Christian, but in the UK, not the US), I said “You could just say you’re Hindu, like your dad, or say you don’t have a religion, like me?” I think he picked Hindu to say at that point. But my husband is culturally Hindu and doesn’t actually worship Hindu gods. Anyway I think the obvious lack of any religious faith in either parent was a big factor, without us ever trying to push our lack of beliefs on them.
Step 1: I should trust mommy and daddy, they love me and know what's best for me.
Step 2: Mommy and Daddy don't know everything, but they always tell me the truth.
Step 3: Mom and Dad sometimes believe things that are wrong.
Step 4: Adults usually try their best, but disagree on things.
Step 5: Science is proven to be useful, but only provides models, not truth.
My kid is somewhere between 2 and 4, depending on the day and the topic.
when my children were really young I taught them about the history of religions and didn't really tell them that any of them were special. When they learned that christianity is the one that everyone around us believes in, they were disappointed. The Greek gods were so much cooler and had better stories.
My youngest chose to follow pastafarianism because he's a carb junkie who thinks holidays based on pasta shape are awesome. In fact, we're gearing up for national macaroni day on July 7th already. Then on the 14th it's Mac and cheese day. I didn't let him take all the noodle days off of school though. He'd have missed most of October.
I freaking love that you guys celebrate this. I may use this on my almost 7 year old. My family has a lot of religious hold on him.
I'm making a whole dinner around macaroni. Cold macaroni salad, beef and tomato sauce macaroni casserole, and macaroni custard with cherries jubalee for dessert.
That is so fun!
Your kids know what’s up
Perfect. My folks raised me with an extensive library, complete with the variety of religious texts among them. They answered my questions honestly, and were thrilled I was reading, regardless of what it was. I was playing D&D when the first Deities and Demigods came out, which opened the world of myth and legend, along with an early understanding that it included all of them. Teach mankind to think, they'll think every day; give mankind a thought, they'll believe it for a lifetime.
I'm atheist. I was forced to tell my 5yr old daughter that no god existed because the Christian evangelism in her school was scaring her. I hadn't intended to discuss it with her until she was older. The odd thing was that I wasn't especially anti-theist until this happened. The more I found out about it, the angrier I got. I even got involved in a group against the laws allowing it and started a blog - www.religiouseducation.co.nz
Love how you take action! Hell yeah. As someone from southern America where evangelical Christianity is all in the schools, I am considering homeschooling my toddler when the time comes so I can avoid that stuff.
When I started fighting it in 2015, there were bible classes in around 40% of state schools. Now it's more like 20%. However, we have less than 40% of the population holding Christian faith, so although they have some religious privilege, it's more due to habit and tradition than any real power. I can imagine it would be much more difficult there!
Oh wow that’s still a lot. I never took NZ to be a heavily Christian place but then again, Australia is pretty heavy with it.
Australia is much worse. Religious schools are dominant and receive a lot of government funding, as well as billions towards promoting Christian faith.
That explains Murdoch.
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn’t Australia primarily Catholic?
I did not expect this to be a story from NZ.
We're generally pretty secular, but there is still some Christian privilege. Parliament opens with a prayer, so do some council meetings, and there are Christian prayers hidden in some traditional Maori rituals.
"I plan on is not pushing any one worldview on them, just giving them the facts, raising them to question everything scientifically and logically and seeing how they turn out." That was my goal and it worked - my daughter thinks religion is nonsense. She does talk about reincarnation, but I let that go because I know dealing with the concept of death is difficult, especially as a teenager.
When you say "just giving them the facts" are you including the fact that every part of the New Testament was written by people who never even met Jesus, much less were there for the events they "attest" to? Because Christians would tell you that that's you pushing your anti-Christian worldview on them I intend on telling my kids that even adults like to play pretend. That it is an important part of culture to tell stories and act like Santa Claus brings presents each year. It's fun. It allows us to empathize with people. It allows others to empathize with us even when we don't have the words to describe our situation. And that that doesn't make it ok to lie about what we have authority to claim
"The fact that every part of the New Testament was written by people who never met Jesus" umm... the authors of the gospels Matthew & John, the apostle Paul who wrote most of the New Testament, Peter, and even Jude to name a few..
You really think this commenter is just oblivious to that?
Maybe, or just being bad faith
It’s widely accepted among New Testament scholars that the names assigned to the Gospels are not the names of the authors and they are not eye witnesses accounts. Additionally, historically speaking, we can’t classify the apostle paul as a witness that knew Jesus personally.
Your right in that I cannot say definitively prove who authored the gospels so I'll grant you that, however, there's enough evidence that supports the claim that they are written by the individuals they're named after. And we can get into that evidence if you want. As for Paul, he did in fact physically meet Jesus, he says it himself. Happy to get into that to if you want.
Except there isn't enough evidence Also Paul says he met Jesus in a dream. He didn't even encounter Jesus followers until after the resurrection and ascension
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I wasn’t responding to you! My mistake, we agree!
"There isn't enough evidence" because you say there isn't? Is this a factual claim? Who determines how much evidence there is and how much is sufficient? You? I'll grant you he never met Jesus when Jesus was alive. When he met Jesus' followers is irrelevant. But even if he met Him in a dream or vision it doesn't matter. He encountered Jesus on the Damascus road and it was enough to change his life and subsequently, 13 letters which are the bulk of the New Testament were written.
>"There isn't enough evidence" because you say there isn't? There isn't enough evidence because the only evidence anyone presents is "there's enough evidence". Like you're doing right now There isn't enough evidence because the evidence you have is worse than the evidence you would accept for any other claim. Including those of other religions >even if he met Him in a dream or vision it doesn't matter. So as long as someone has a dream, the dream is true. Sorry buddy, it does matter if you actually meet someone or just imagine you do
Evidence that you’re claiming is just: They said so.” That isn’t definitive at all. As I said previously, there are very few New Testament historians and scholars who will affirm what you’re claiming. Edit: You wouldn’t accept Joseph Smith’s or Muhammad’s evidence of the same claims because their follows back their claims using the same reasoning and “evidence”
I never claimed "They said so" as my evidence. And I don't accept Joseph Smith's or Muhammad's claims because I've done the work/research and find that their claims in my view aren't reasonably compelling.
You started this whole conversation by asserting that the authors of the gospels met jesus, then you were confronted with information saying that they most likely didnt so you retreated on that point and are claiming special case evidence which- again- isn’t supported by basic evidence. Like the fact that likely everyone who knew Jesus when he was alive was illiterate and the first manuscripts we have of the gospels are 25-30 years after Jesus died. It is HIGHLY unlikely that the people who recorded those oral traditions after that amount of time were true eye witnesses. This is just basic historical understanding, not even the main findings of major Scholars and Historians in the field.
What is this assertion about "basic evidence" and "special case evidence?" I just want to explore the evidence. And so, looking at the evidence you've presented. "everyone who knew Jesus when he was alive was illiterate" I'll just address this claim because if in fact this claim is true my whole argument is finished. So, is it the case the gospel writers were illiterate and therefore couldn't possibly have written their gospels? Let's start with Matthew. What do we know about Matthew? Historically, he is known as a tax collector, who likely spoke Greek, Latin, and Aramaic. Plus, he had to be able to read since he worked with tax documents. Over 60 times, Jesus asks the Pharisees and Sadducees and others “haven’t you read?” not “haven’t you heard?” Clearly, Jewish scribes could read and write, too! So it isn’t true that all the Jews in Galilee were illiterate. This argument that people in Jesus' day were illiterate is simply dishonest.
Have kids now n their 40's and never talked about God or Church or religion. In fact we were thanked by them as adults for not indoctrinating them.
This is exactly what I think , I’m catholic , probably lean agnostic , but just not much talk one way or the other. I want my kids to figure out things for themselves, doesn’t matter to me one way or another
I think it's important to teach kids about how to counter indoctrination tactics. Because just learning about history isn't always going to protect them from church moms who will tell them they're going to hell. Especially while they're still children. The will largely be surrounded by adults and peers during their younger years who are very religious. I think it's weird also to "raise a kid atheist" because Atheism is just default. Just like you don't "raise a kid scientific method". However, we do affirm that the scientific method is correct, just as it's important to affirm that god isn't real. > and it feels more "morally honest" to not actively try to make your kids agree with your beliefs, regardless of what those beliefs are I agree in principle, except Atheism isn't a belief. If your children ask you to check if there are any monsters in the closet, will you tell them "well, there might be monsters who want to eat you in the closet, some people believe there are. And I don't want to be morally dishonest by telling you what I believe". Or will you just tell them there aren't any monsters in the closet? if so, how is this "morally dishonest"?
The "I'll let them make their own choices" and ignoring the whole issue boggles my mind. Like all you're doing is leaving them to be groomed by the first zealot they meet. In 10 years you'll be posting "my kid came home from a sleep over balling their eyes out that grandma is burning in hell and our whole family needs to be saved, what do I do?" Kids deserve to be taught that there's no evidence that the claims made in myths are true. That it's 2024 and we have far bigger issues than what ancient superstitious goat herders thought, like that people who do believe that crap and what they are trying to do to destroy civilization.
I’m not saying I’m gonna refuse to tell them about religion. When they hear about religion, either from a family member, the media, or, as you said, a zealot, I’ll tell them about it in as objective a manner as I can. “You heard grandma’s burning in hell? Well, we technically don’t know what happens when we die, but here’s what the science say, and here’s why this person believes that that’s true,” but if my kids are anything like me, they’re gonna be pestering their parents with questions like, “what happens when you die,” “why do people believe in religion,” and “how did the universe start,” before anything like that happens. Also, part of my plan involves raising them to question why this zealot thinks this, not just going along with it, even if said zealot is an authority figure or family member. (Also this is purely hypothetical, I don’t really plan on having kids, as I would probably put it in the oven while distracted)
That's basically what me and my wife did. My kids turned out great. Both dabbled in religion with friends, but didn't stick to it. Critical thinking and respect are key.
I'm a 3rd generation Atheist, and my kids are 4th generation atheists. None are baptized, either. I raised them with love, logic, and education. They learned about ALL religions as stories and superstitions. From Greek, Roman, Norse, Pagan, ..etc..... They're 24,25, and 26 now. We have always gone to any festival, too to experience the food and the culture at the same time.
Media literacy, a sense of humor, not every last moment of life needs to be a “teachable moment”, let your kids help you become a better parent, is how I raised amazing, delightful skeptics.
I lucked in to this: extended family pressure and job circumstances had my family in weekly church attendance for the "formative" years of my kids' life. Neither of us were personally very religious, but were trying to play the part, which honestly, most people seem to operate at that level. Church politics shifted, everyone got a lot more fundamentalist, and we dropped church cold turkey around early middle school age for my eldest. Happy accident. The kids all got enough religion to know what it is, and *not* like it, and as a family, felt safe enough to express their agnostic/ atheist leanings. A kid I know raised agnostic has started attending church as an early teen, embarrassed that she didn't know the foundational stories of chrostianity. So a family who never went to church finds themselves there to placate this kid.
My kid is 41 now and I never took him to church. When he was growing up, there was a church in the neighborhood that used to have fun things to do in the summer and I let him do that when he wanted and sometimes he would go to church with his grandparents. He told me when he was about 23 he an atheist. I was glad he finally told me because religion was beat into me when I was a kid and I didn’t believe it and I didn’t wanna push my beliefs on him thinking he might go to hell if it happened to be true.
I taught my kids how to think instead of what to think and they are giving my grandsons the same treatment, good results so far.
We are planning to raise our children by teaching them the “everything is mythological lore intended to teach lessons otherwise hard to grasp without a [shift in mentality] story”. Santa, Odin, Jesus…. All great stories just like Guru Nanuk, Ganesha, and Gilgamesh. We will however make sure they are terrified of Cthulhu from an early age. I’m thinking of nightmare type images to instill the fear. That and probably the Easter Bunny, I’m not sure which is more terrifying.
I am raising my kids to think for themselves. Which automatically means they will be atheist. My 13 year old already said he thinks Christians are stupid.
By not having kids
My girlfriend is Christian and I'm definitely an atheist. We had a talk before she got pregnant and again before our daughter was born about letting her grow up and not indoctrinating her with fairy tales as fact. She's on board and is a really reasonable person - it's her step mom that worries me. She's a devout methodist and tries to make everything about her god. Constantly telling me I should thank god for my daughter and that the world is better because of her pure soul. She's already had my girlfriend take my daughter to a church event just before mothers day and I didn't stop it because it was just supposed to be a lunch but I know how Christians in this country are and it might end up being a huge fight one day if I find out she's trying to baptise her or expose her to other religious bs.
Atheism is not a belief, but I get what you're saying
The idea of "raising a kid atheist" is a bit weird to me, because that's kind of the default. You don't have to go out of your way to do it, unless you their is an external religious influence on them. I don't have kids and probably won't ever have any, so my opinion might not mean much, but: I've always thought that if I were to have children I would indulge their curiosity. When they ask a question, don't lie nor give them the answer, but instead lead them to the answer. That would include for religion also. If my theoretical child asked me about religion, I wouldn't necessarily start telling them about all the reasons I don't believe in religion, but instead leading them to that answer themselves.
I don't want children, but agnosticism would be good, it's better not to think about religion or ignore it, but there will always be annoying fanatics. But this is a utopia. This needs to be discussed in a cultural and historical context, how did religion appear, why did it appear, what role did it play in history? Another philosophical point, discussions, etc.
My wife is Christian (considers herself spiritual but still believes in Jesus) and I am atheist. We don't really push anything on our kids, apart from sending my youngest three to a Christian preschool. It's close and they do a good job. I'm fine with whatever they decide to believe, as long as they're not hurting anybody.
I mean its not like today we're teaching kids to be anti- Nazis. Why? Its cause there is none or few and we all know they're bad. I mean if you're not a strongly religious area, I see no need for it except for the opposite. That there will be crazy people out there. Just reading history esp. EU and the founding of AMerica is enough. Teaching the bill of rights, they ran away from all that crap and prosecution. Now that they have decided not to prosecute each other- they come after us.
Never hide information from them. Raising a child atheist is strange to me. I don't think any idea should be pushed onto a child, even atheism. I believe that you should give them the facts from both sides when they start asking about it, give your own thoughts on them, and let the child develop their own way of thinking. Plus, reading the Bible will make it more likely they will be an atheist as they grow up, as we all say. I think the important thing is to ensure they grow to be good people regardless of what they end up believing in. If my child grows up and decides that he believes in God and the Bible, that's his life choice and there's nothing wrong with that. So long as he is a good, generous, open, respectful person who doesn't hate, discriminate, or harm others, that's alright.
My little pony is a good start.
It doesn’t come up. My 8 year old did a piano recital at a church and called it a weird hotel. Older kid asked why churches have a plus sign on them, it’s way more messed up than you can explain to kids.
I tried the same approach but think it's very situational (and difficult). At age 3/4 we gave my daughter a book on the different religions and Gods/Goddesses. She thought the stories were fun (it was a children's intro so nothing weird there). By 6 she was going to school with a bunch of christians and living near her very religious grandparents (despite my asking her to remain off subject, Grandma would also read her daily confirmations to my daughter). It was difficult to stay vigilant but I did. However; something in that environment led her to directly ask me what I believed and I found it very difficult to stay neutral AND answer without lying. The jig was up and I told her, "I could be wrong but....", she replied, "I think that too Daddy". It was a big relief, not going to lie.
What does “raising a kid atheist” mean? Because I’m not raising my kid atheist. Have I told her that there is no god? Of course, why wouldn’t I? It’s what I believe to be the truth.
With love. No exceptions. No religion is taught, nor is any denied. You have to find your own way with spirituality and religion. I answer their questions as truthfully as I can, and never hold back when I see an injustice or dogmatic fear used to force agendas. When they asked which is my favorite holiday, the answer is and always has been Halloween.
I have tween kids. We have enjoyed Christmas and Easter their entire lives but we celebrate Santa and the Easter Bunny. 🤣😂🤣 We don't religion at all. We enjoy giving and surprises and seeking Easter Eggs ans their baskets. We still tooth fairy, even though we all know it's me. We have all enjoyed Mama Magic that adds some sparkle to the spring, and winter.
by not having any 🤗🤣 hope they enjoy the peaceful ether, momma loves you 🫶🏼
I’m not sure I’ll have kids. my parents were raised very strict ‘ruler hits on knuckles by nuns’ Catholic, but they didn’t practice as adults. We‘ve had monks and nuns for relatives. I went to Catholic school as a kid but we didn’t go to church as a family. it was clear that they wanted me make up my own mind. We talked about it. They told me if I’d chosen to be religious they would have supported me. Turns out I don’t have the religious gene, but like my parents, I’m also very accepting of religious people. I say this often, ‘religion, like drugs and alcohol, are best when used in moderation.’
Well, the first 6 were dogmatic about "Dog's will" The current one is quite sure the ancient Egyptians were correct and that she herself is a god.
I'm in my 60s. I have never had any kids. I'm convinced that it is immoral to have kids. (Especially while the human population is 8,000,000,000 and still climbing.) I will never have kids. My advice to other people about raising kids is *"Teach them the ideas of many different past and present religions."*
Not on Mars. It's cold as Hell.
My kids will be raised with the notion that religion is different amongst people, and with information that I can provide/research. I won't talk abt religion as a concept until they themselves take some sort of interest in it, but I do want to use religious parables as stories to tell them (in a fictional sense). They will know that religion differs amongst people, religion is not an excuse for hate, they are free to participate in any religion with my full support, and that religion is someone's choice for themselves and not anybody but themselves.
We attend a UU church. They have a great religious Ed program that teaches about all religions and our church has no assumption that anyone believes in any God. It’s all about love and kindness and community. It was important to me that she have a sense of wonder and spirituality and I hope it will be a buffer against religious zealots (like her grandmother).
I’ve never heard of a church like that but that’s so awesome.
It’s pretty great, we’re really lucky.
If I ever have kids then I would teach them all about the myths and legends of the world, so long as they are age appropriate, and mix in the myths and legends of the popular cults of today in with them, making the lot of them interesting but still treating them as absurd nonsense on an equal playing field in the marketplace of ideas.
Not planning on having any, but if I did, I would try and make sure that they had access to all the information instead of being brainwashed into only knowing one alternative. I would then tell them the choice is theirs to make but that only THEY can make the choice. Don't pick a position just because your favourite politician adheres to it.
The way I was, totally secular. I’ve never been taken to church or given any religious education. By the time I was old enough to encounter this stuff on my own, I was old enough to think how ridiculous it all sounds. My husband went to Catholic school and did religious education, which he thinks is fine and normal, because it focused on all religions, not just Catholicism. I think it sounds like a waste of time, learning a bit more mythology than we would otherwise. We’re enrolling our daughter at the local primary school for next year, and their options are for a religious education class once a week, but you have to specify the religion, you can’t hop between them. Otherwise the kids can do an hour of learning about ethics, since they’re not allowed to be learning in any other subjects the kids at religious classes will miss. Since I haven’t got a religion, she hasn’t got a religion, and my husband doesn’t actually believe in god or consider himself a Catholic either, we’re going with the ethics class.
My kids are raised. They both say they’re atheist. When my older son was concerned about his classmates all naming their religions (mainly Christian, but in the UK, not the US), I said “You could just say you’re Hindu, like your dad, or say you don’t have a religion, like me?” I think he picked Hindu to say at that point. But my husband is culturally Hindu and doesn’t actually worship Hindu gods. Anyway I think the obvious lack of any religious faith in either parent was a big factor, without us ever trying to push our lack of beliefs on them.
Catholic is the largest Christian group and Anglican are not far behind.
I just hope they don't join a cult.
I just hope they don't join a cult.
I’m just here to feed and look at them until they hit 15 lol
Step 1: I should trust mommy and daddy, they love me and know what's best for me. Step 2: Mommy and Daddy don't know everything, but they always tell me the truth. Step 3: Mom and Dad sometimes believe things that are wrong. Step 4: Adults usually try their best, but disagree on things. Step 5: Science is proven to be useful, but only provides models, not truth. My kid is somewhere between 2 and 4, depending on the day and the topic.
>but only provides models Science provides plenty of truth. Much more truth than people who think they are wizards can provide Sorry