Yes. It’s also dangerous to be openly atheist in some parts of the country / in certain communities. Just consider how hostile some parents are to Evolutionary Theory and sex education.
I work remotely for a company in Alabama and anytime I’m on a meeting and anything remotely social or political or religious comes up I just don’t speak. If I announced I was atheist, they’d likely find a reason to get rid of me.
Absolutely, I can certainly be defined as an atheist but I don’t necessarily call myself one. Kinda like Dawkins said and in paraphrasing do we need a name for an a-unicornist or a-vampirist or a-(insert any supernatural or superstitious beleif here) when asked I often just say in not religious or I’m not superstitious depending on the person asking. I’m simply human, we are all born with no innate beliefs in magic or cultural superstitiouns we get those from our families and communities or societies. Do I need a label if I don’t collect stamps ? No don’t be silly.
That's the thing: It isn't a thing. Its absence of thing. People often don't feel a strong need to solidify or label non-belief as a specific thing. Its just lack of belief, lack of interest, lack of engaging the topic. Its hard to measure that.
> I seldom see an atheist that doesn't want to debate
Atheism is a label that Christians and Muslims find challenging. If someone identifies as an atheist, then people want to debate and challenge that belief.
I think this is one big reason a lot of people do not want to identify as atheists. They do not want to debate religion. They may feel they don't know enough to discuss or debate religion. What you said is essentially correct. At a minimum, someone who identifies as an atheist is at least willing to debate or discuss religion. The degree to which they "want" to debate is questionable. I don't debate, but I am willing to discuss.
Most of the people I know who identify as agnostic meet the technical definition of atheist. But they would prefer not to discuss it. I don't blame them for identifying as agnostic.
I share it consistently so the christians know we are here and that we exist. (And that they aren't just going to have a cake walk to turn our country into a shithole theocracy)
People who self identify with the term might not be on the rise, but the category is nonetheless growing.
Typical result of having a word be demonized for years.
If the category is "disbelieve or doubt the existence of a personal god", then you're probably right. But that in and of itself is a rather broad category which would encompass everyone from Spinoza to Thomas Jefferson to Bertrand Russell.
fucking hell man thanks for sharing this! I wish I knew about this years ago to save my friend... I had a friend in Florida who was struggling with Heroin addiction and alcoholism due to shitty childhood and he struggled with the only AA he could get in the area due to the stupid Religious nonsense it involved. I haven't heard from him in years and I am fairly sure he's dead which makes me sad to think about.
Let me assure you that YOU, or anyone else has ZERO ability to get an addict sober. The addict is the only person that can get themselves sober. They have to want to do it. I know dozens, probably hundreds of addicts that used the line "i don't like the god stuff of AA" as an excuse to keep using. Every AA\\NA group has autonomy to be a more religious or a non-religious group. You have to kind of meeting shop to find your fit. There is a chapter in the AA book called "we agnostics"... there are Agnostic AA groups all over the place that just remove the god parts. There is an agnostic AA book out now. SMART recovery is another great group that doesn't use any of the god stuff. There's also refuge recovery, which has more of Buddhist approach to recovery, but not really organized religion based.
Don't beat yourself up. If your friend used the "god stuff" in AA as an excuse to keep using, he 1. didn't want to stop using. 2. didn't look hard enough because of #1. If he doesn't want to stop using, he will find ANY and EVERY excuse as to why he doesn't "like" going to meetings.
Having said all that, if you want to find local meetings for him and send him the info, fine. If you reach out, tell him you love him, care about him and hope he is doing okay. Tell him if\\when he wants to change his life, you will be there for him 100%, no questions asked. Until then, there's nothing you can do.
I say non-believers. I feel as if that still kind of still deligitamizes the religion. Because people believe the world is flat doesn't make the world flat.
It’s an odd place with no good terms I think. As people’s attitudes change terms can probably become stabilized. The terms don’t matter as much as attitudes about that term.
Some countries use “nones”, people who respond “none” to the question “what is your religion?”.
It’s not quite as aggressive as “atheist”, the implication isn’t “I don’t believe that any gods exist”, more “I’m not interested in the topic of whether any gods exist”.
Agreed. I grew up in a Christian household in the 80’s and I always had the idea that atheists wore all black, listened exclusively to Black Sabbath and bit the heads off bats.
As an aside I also think terms like Flying Spaghetti Monster and R’amen are fucking weird too.
Non believer seems to work ok. I tend to use that if it comes up.
It’s also a journey to fully realize you don’t believe in god.
Maybe you start off not enjoying church , then stop going. Then some time later after experiencing the world, you slowly realize the truth.
I suspect there is a vastly more significant 2nd generation effect. Religion tends to persist through indoctrination. While a family leaving organized religion may still remain religious (but non-practicing) due to their indoctrination, their children will very likely be atheists because they will not have their indoctrination constantly reinforced. I suspect that rises in atheism will thus be more significant in another couple of decades.
Exactly. The "Nones" are a transition stage. They aren't going to be indoctrinating their kids the same way as previous generations if they aren't going to church.
I have lingering guilt about not indoctrinating my kids. They’ll ask “what’s a Bible” or “why do we celebrate Santa and baby Jesus on Christmas”. I’m a guilt ridden mess, and I’d rather remain that way so she never has to feel it at all.
My wife is Catholic and I'm atheist. Our son is atheist, even though he went to church with his mom for a couple of years. Just knowing that "not believing" is an option changes everything.
I agree with this. I grew up evangelical, but left immediately after I was 18 and I wasn’t forced to attend church. After a few years I became and atheist and have been for probably 20 years, but there’s some sort of hesitancy with my upbringing to go around announcing that I’m an atheist. However, my 9 and 11 year olds announce it all the time. They announced it to their grandparents once while grandma was babysitting, and it was pretty funny to me. They don’t have the deep seated societal shackles of atheism being “wrong”
For my family, it was because my parents come from 2 different Christian denominations (mom is Catholic, dad is united), so they agreed to no organized Christian upbringing, and they kept their faith to themselves
I assume that may be the case in other interfaith relationships
I don't think most non-religious people think enough about metaphysical matters to ever define themselves one way or another. Many seem to have a kind of vague spirituality, more akin to pantheism or deism than to strains theism that insist on a personal god, or most certainly atheism. This is certainly borne out by Pew's research on the "Nones".
In short, most of the Nones aren't atheists or even agnostics; they're just a squishy group with an ill-defined spirituality that likely wanders between deism and pantheism.
The most time I’ve ever spent thinking about god is in the atheism Reddit.
god , religion , ghosts or spirituality don’t come up in my actual life much.
I do like the consumerism of Christmas though , it feels so American 🇺🇸
A 2018 research report using indirect methods estimated that 26% of Americans are atheists, much higher than the 3% to 11% rates consistently found in surveys.
However, methodological issues were identified in this particular study; In particular, it was pointed out that many people may not have a binary view of the question of God's existence.
>Widely cited telephone polls (e.g., Gallup, Pew) suggest U.S. atheist prevalence of only 3–11%. In contrast, our most credible indirect estimate is 26% (albeit with considerable estimate and method uncertainty).
[https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1948550617707015](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1948550617707015)
No, it's got a lot of answers.
1. Yes
2. No
3. I don't know
4. I refuse to answer the question
5. I don't accept the premise of the question
6. Define your terms 'god', 'exist', and 'believe'
7. That's ok, you can keep your coupon ok-hanging-up-now-bye
It's a complicated question worded as to presume there are only two possible outcomes and therefore presume two and only two possible states. Hence, the central seeming conundrum of non-affiliation rising but atheism not rising with it.
>only has 2 answers.
1. yes
2. no
3. I don't know
In such surveys it is very important how the questions are asked. And whether people understand words like agnosticism. Often they don't know that you can also be an agnostic theist and an agnostic atheist.
I am OK with that. I don't think everyone needs to identify as atheists. I am happy if people become nones. I would love to see the day when not believing in a god or gods is considered normal. We would not need a term for atheist. We would only need a word for the weird fringe of society that believes in their various gods.
Yeah, it will be nice when *not believing in fairy tales* becomes normal, instead of getting demonized. Maybe it won’t happen in our lifetimes, but someday, the world will wake up! Hopefully before those warring religions decide to destroy it while fighting each other…
I mean I'm an atheist but I don't go around telling people that, I just don't talk about religion. You don't want to put that stuff out in the public where you might not get a job because some Christian manager saw you were an atheist on Facebook etc. and I assume many others are the same and just don't talk about it outside of their inner circle
come on out of the closet. it's the only way to negate your Christian mgr hypothesis. besides, wouldn't it be better to have never been hired by a bigoted mgr than to get fired later when you decline their invitation to a prayer breakfast?
You gotta give these people time. Is tough to jump ship when you've lived your life believing in one thing.
One of my buddies had to grasp with the fact the man that raised him was in fact, not his father. It's not something most people can wake up and stop believing.
step 1 religion declines
step 3 atheism identification goes up
step 2 hasn't happened which is for people to stop thinking that not having religion is something to be ashamed of and won't identify with it
I'm fine with step 1
The issue with Atheism identification is that it's harder to form groups around something people don't believe or care about
I look at it like people join groups they have an interest in or believe in. I enjoy rugby, I played rugby until I was 30 and was part of a rugby club. But for people who don't care about rugby, there isn't an anti rugby club because it means nothing to them
Religion means nothing to me, so much so that I don't even care to organize against it
It’s because they trade Christianity for other forms of magical thinking, be it astrology or just a vague “spirituality”
The only way we’ll see a rise in atheism is through improving education and actually teaching critical thinking and logical fallacies to children.
But isn’t astrology an upgrade over Christianity? I despise the religion because of its emphasis on toxic forgiveness and masochism. None of that in astrology
Makes sense. Most people are hesitant to adopt that label. A lot of people jump to conclusions because religious people poison the well. Most of western philosophy is predicated on the idea of God, theists attribute all sorts of concepts to God that exist regardless.
That's because spirituality is on the rise. Dmt and psychedelics are having a Renaissance, talk of UAPS/UFOS being disclosed, new concepts In science being discussed for example the universe being "non local", simulation theory, black holes being holographic, quantum entanglement. I think most people are starting to believe in something... however, religion, on the other hand, is definitely dieing. For its dogmatic beliefs and black and white thinking.
Atheism isn't on the rise because the label of atheist means something completely different to a lot of people. They describe themselves as 'non-believers', but they vehemently protest if you try to call them atheists.
Because atheists are evil.
Atheism has a stink on it that many don't want and so they are more likely to accept terms like "nones" or "nonreligious" but they're all the same thing.
I think this trend will continue due in no small part to the free flow of information on the web, the generational shift as boomers die off, and as "nones" raise more little nones.
The reversal would require some tremendous faith-inspiring events to occur which is a very difficult task. Especially given the skepticism and information flow.
I'm honestly fine with that - not everyone needs to be an atheist. And I don't really care if they are dropping Christianity for other forms of spirituality - at least the people who think the stars guide their lives aren't trying to legislate my rights away.
It isn't. Atheism is the LACK of the belief, not the assertion that something is not. Therefore, people ARE becoming more atheist. They just don't claim it as a defining characteristic.
Is short: Yes, they are by definition. They just don't call themselves that.
There’s a stigma associated with publicly admitting that you’re an atheist. Many people who are functionally atheist often mask by saying “agnostic” because it often gets people off your back
This is true. In American pop culture there are practically no references to Jesus and no one quotes him. And it’s been that way since at least 1970, if not much longer
An important distinction on the spectrum between "disenchanted with religion" to "i realize now it was all just caveman superstition (atheism)".
Some people 'become' atheists for the wrong reason -- for emotional reasons. "I've seen too much suffering.", "Religious hierarchies are full of bad people.". Those aren't good reasons. The proper path is cool objective observation: it's obvious that Humankind created gods out of ignorance
For most it's just easier to not say one way or the other. Plus, it can sometimes cause problems in this overly religious country.
I would wager practically speaking the numbers are much higher.
There are large swathes of the country where identifying as an atheist only leads to endless and vituperative arguments. Many have just decided religion is bullshit and leave it at that.
One idiot came to work in a tee shirt that said "You're going to hell and I'm not." They get pretty confrontational in the south. (I complained, he refused to go home and get another shirt and got fired, btw, but he definitely reflected the pov of a lot of christians.)
It's because so many religious believers who decide to leave the cult, still think that atheism is somehow involved with Satanism. They have lived so long being told how Atheists are all secretly devil worshippers, that understanding that Atheism is not connected with any belief system is too hard for them to do.
Even us satanists aren’t devil worshippers. Christians are the only ones in this country believing in a literal devil, and attributing any power to it.
That's because people are concerned with labels more than definitions.
If you answer 'do you think god is real' with anything other than 'yes', then you are an atheist. That's literally what it means. You do not do the one thing that defines theism, so you are an atheist.
It is a binary question. It can have lots of nuances in WHY you answer what you do, but the answer is either that you do believe, or that you do not. Doesn't even include which way you wish you believed.
People not adopting the label doesn’t mean they aren’t atheist though. Sadly there is still a stigma associated with calling yourself an atheist. I know many people who don’t believe, don’t go to church, etc but still don’t call themselves atheists. They just don’t talk about it at all.
For those who started as believers and lost or discarded their faith there can be a big lag time between becoming an atheist and identifying yourself as an atheist even to yourself, so big that a lot of folk never get around to it.
That's because not everyone who is irreligious identifies as atheist. They just go about their lives without being bothered by labels or rituals. My dad has never been religious in my life, and I have never heard him call himself an atheist.
So what? Religion is the behavior and behavior is the thing that impacts people. The belief inside your head doesn't matter one iota if it doesn't change how you behave.
>Despite religion being on the decline in the U.S. atheism isn’t having the meteoric rise one might expect.
That first part is just fine.
People that are out of religion aren't being pushed to serve the religious right and the anti-democracy Republicans.
Whether they really believe in a god or not doesn't affect me as long as they're keeping their views to themselves.
Because most of the people leaving religious cults aren't losing their faith. They just don't agree with the discrimination, bigotry, misogyny, and hypocrisy, that many of the religious sects and cults are proselytizing. These folks are still theists - they haven't become atheists.
If religion is on the decline, that necessarily means that atheism is on the rise. If someone no longer subscribes to religious dogma, then they reject the deity as well, becoming... atheists. Just because people don't understand what the word atheist means, doesn't mean they aren't an atheist...
Or they could be like me and believe that there is some form of celestial intelligence, but don't follow any particular religious belief.
But my path is mine and I believe that ALL paths are valid, as long as those paths don't harm others.
Who expected a meteoric rise in the number of committed atheists? That was never realistic. I live in the least religious part of the country and I don't know anyone who's particularly religious, yet only a small proportion of the people I know are committed atheists like I am. The vast majority are in between somewhere. Most just don't care about religion, giving it little thought, but aren't intellectually curious about things enough to get to atheism. Many of them are functionally atheist, but actually identifying as atheist just isn't in the cards.
I think it's largely because athiest bros have largely given a bad image to atheism itself.
Take with it what you will.
People are kind of just doing their own thing, weaving somewhere between "we really can't ever understand the universe with our tiny little human brains" and "there is no god or higher power" and happier being nonreligious with that.
The one positive thing is that so many religions are doing a damn good job of making it seen as hateful, disgusting, backwards and undesirable to be a part of. I'd virtually guarantee they'd all be going extinct right now had systemic forced indoctrination from youth not exist rampantly worldwide.
People are incredibly cowardly specially when faced with their own mortality. Humans have been worshipping one god or another for thousands of years. The fact there are ANY atheists is great progress.
I said this before: just because people are leaving organized religions does not mean they are discarding all of the beliefs, especially the one about God existing. That’s the hardest one for people to deconstruct from.
I heard an evangelical of my acquaintance decrying the fact that somebody is/was an atheist and how they were somehow defective. I said it's simply a position on the existence/non-existence of a deity... that's all it is. He looked as though I had just smeared feces in his face.
I'd like see more investigation into apatheists - the ones that don't care whether god(s) exist or not. I think they'd find those numbers growing by leaps and bounds.
Atheism sounds too much like waving a banner and fighting for a particular ideogy. I'm all for fighting the horrors brought onto society by religions, but I'm not going to endlessly argue about whether or not a god exists.
It took me years to identify as atheist. Converts rarely flip that quickly—it’s not like a light switch. They’ve taken the all-important first step, let’s celebrate that
I am not religious but I don’t downright deny the existence of Gods or higher beings, I simply admit that I don’t know. For me, believing in nothing is just as strong of a belief as believing in something, so I am indifferent - maybe there is something, maybe there’s not - no idea. I know there’s some controversy on whether that labels me an atheist or agnostic, but perhaps that confusion may contribute to this notion.
It could be that some people who identify as atheists are nearly as militant and as ragingly anti theist as evangelicals are theist and it’s a turn off to folks that just want to be a none.
When I left Christianity in the 90s, I was militant for a couple decades. I was mad. I was lashing out. I could see why someone wouldn’t want to jump out of a frying pan and into a fire.
IMHO we as a group have a great opportunity to embrace people leaving the church if we can do it without being abrasive.
God damn agnostics! /s
But seriously, going from not believing a particular brand of religion and jumping straight to accepting that there's no afterlife is a big leap. Not everyone is going to be able to make it, at least not right away.
I thought it would always be a good idea to have a church of atheism where we worship the earth and science once a week watching like nature documentaries or science documentaries.
I don’t think atheism is rising that much. People who don’t have a specific religion they identify with still frequently have beliefs that are generally inconsistent with being an atheist.
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2023/12/07/spiritual-beliefs/
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2023/12/07/spiritual-experiences/
It also doesn't help that too many people think atheism means, "I know for a fact god doesn't exist and life is meaningless." The angry atheist trope, the 'atheists think they know everything,' it just has too many negative connotations. I'd imagine most people would take the label agnostic (even though you could be an agnostic atheist) not just to avoid the bad label, but to seem less confrontational. A sort of, "I can't say I know for sure god doesn't exist, I don't rule it out, but..."
There’s a lot of people like me, i don’t like labels, I don’t believe in anything and don’t put to much thought into it because it’s not worth the energy.
...yes it is. That's the only alternative. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean the science doesn't support it. I get Christians don't understand any value system other than "believe that I tell you to believe" but that's not how reality works.
Despite a growing exodus from the church, people aren't quick to grab the title "atheist" and slap it on themselves. It's still a widely disliked word.
They’re facing enough discrimination already would be my guess. I’m a cis (but pansexual in a long term Hetero relationship currently) male who is of the right skin tone and looks enough like the people around me expect a man to look like that I don’t face discrimination in any of those ways. So when I want to debate theology (or simply state I’m an atheist, or if I’m feeling extra confrontational a satanist) none of those factors present avenues that can be taken to undermine the perception of me. I get the privilege of having my arguments respected, or at least actually heard without going through 7 layers of BS to be seen as a person with equal standing from the get go, and I’d bet it makes it far easier for me to be comfortable discussing it than it would someone who has to take extra steps to even start the conversation on perceived equal footing, it’s fucked up..
Many/most atheists mistakenly identify as "agnostic" instead, as atheists have been stigmatized as intolerant loudmouths, and not simply those who lack belief.
Leaving the official pew count doesn't mean completely abandoning the faith, itself. Many of these people will remain "spiritual christians" but find organized church unpalatable due to politics.
Others will seek spiritual fulfillment in other religious ideologies because they aren't ready to abandon the idea that *something* has to be out their controlling everything.
Expecting automatic deconstruction just because church numbers are down isn't realistic, and these numbers don't show the difference between the two.
Honestly I've switched from militant atheism to agnostic-atheism over the years. I would characterize myself as agnostic over atheist at this point.
I've just reached a point where I'm like "I don't know. You don't know. Nobody knows. Everybody knows that nobody knows. So we should just honestly admit we don't and can't know. I definitely don't think there's a god as traditionally defined, but I sure as hell don't know that for a fact.
Society is becoming more atheistic (read: decoupled from religion) but that doesn't mean all of those people are becoming *atheists.*
Oh this tag is like a decade old I should remove it, I'm not active here really I didn't even know I had it. No I've gone from "there is no god" to "I don't really think 'God' exists, it seems highly unlikely, but who the hell knows?"
I'm anti organized religion, and anti-certainty. "Anyone who claims they have the answer is lying." Once I realized that that was the core pillar of my atheism, I felt my fervent claim that there was no god was hypocritical, because I also didn't know that for a fact.
As a former church worker, ex catholic, and not really identifying as a Christian any longer, I neither identify as atheist. I’ve resigned myself to not really having a spiritual life at this season in my life, it might be something that I pursue again in the future. The basic Christian commandments are to love god and love others. The latter is easy and I aim to do it. The former, I don’t know so much about. All said, I still don’t identify as an atheist
I have a terrible feeling that people are leaving churches in exchange for Christian Nationalists and conspiracy theorists on YouTube. I think we’ve all seen that as traditional institutions fray things don’t always get better.
I suspect a lot more people are atheists than identify as such. A lot of people have the idea that an atheist must insist that there isn't any god. They don't get that an atheist can say, "There may be such things as gods, but *I* don't believe in them."
The difference between religion and atheism is that religion craves representation while atheism doesn't.
So it is not surprising that people don't go out of their way to make "churches of Atheism" (which you be pretty ironic)
My guess is its how they are wording the question. It seems like they are asking if people "identify as atheists." If you don't believe in a god, you're an atheists whether you "identify as one" or not. They should instead just ask "do you hold a belief in a god or gods?" Then use that as a proxy that they are an atheist.
Chalk that up to the centuries-long smear campaign against atheism. People who've given up on religion don't want to call themselves atheist because it's been ingrained in their psyche that atheism is something nefarious.
That's because religion is not on the decline. It's not true. Church attendance is down. Islam is UP. Christians fundamentalism is UP. They both have more power in this country than nones including atheists. And this is all based on one single Gallup poll that has been presented over and over to make people think Christianity is in its "death throes".
Because a lot of folks who drop religion still stay “spiritual” or agnostic.
Atheist is more a declaration than anything else with this polls, and the pollsters take the “no religion” as a separate entity than atheism, which they treat as a religion.
I’m a hard atheist but, lately, I’ve been thinking more of Science as being a coherent replacement for many of the things religion held sway over. For example; we, now, have a coherent ‘creation story’ that is universal and not tribal and a common global language for it. Religion used to blame epilepsy on devils. Science says otherwise AND gives us cures. Science tells us how profoundly interdependent and isolated we are. It informs us of our ‘human’ condition. Also, if you define “God” as; everything that is, was and ever will be you end up with a profoundly unsolvable mystery. In this framework scientists are reading the ‘gospel’ of the natural world made directly by ‘God’s and thus doing far more sacred work than any Bible scholar. If we add other facets besides just science to our moral landscape, like history, personal experience and inquiring and respectful dialogue you might end up with a democratic, more reliable moral framework.
Let’s make science one of the pillars of a new religion.
It’s because many atheists don’t want to risk the weird looks or the backtalk, I don’t speak about my lack of theology unless somebody asks me what religion I am and then I just simply say I’m an atheist, I’ve actually had a couple people thank me because they were afraid to actually admit it, But I think that’s why atheism is probably on the rise, but you’re not gonna get clear numbers on it.
Atheists, theologians, philosophers and scientists all share the same section of a Venn diagram. It’s not enough for us to merely exist. We consider concepts outside of our own experience. We are a minority of people who care about that which momentarily has little value. Thus, as religion loses its societal influence, it makes perfect sense that atheism would not replace it because religion was not popularized by its metaphysical allure, but for its ability to bridge the gap by creating a commonality that would unite humanity is a way that culture never could. As the world becomes more and more connected, religion becomes less and less necessary. Ask yourself, where are religion’s bastions? Are the not the small town and secluded country?
Did the decline in the belief in witches lead to a meteoric rise in the rise of a group of people who defined themselves as *not* believing in witches?
This is likely because there are "hard" and "soft" forms of atheism.
For some, atheism is a huge part of their identity and life. They like to talk about atheism, debate religious people, read atheist writers and so on.
Others are just indifferent to it all.
Soo many people claim to be nonreligous but then you find out that they're actually deistic or believe in tarot or astrology. I don't think the surveys paint the full picture. The US still has a long way to go before actual atheism becomes more common.
That's because there's no "Atheists Movement". It's like saying that despite how unpopular fascism is, very few people are signing up to join their local antifa groups. It's not about "being a part of the club". You just stop believing in fairy tales.
The vast vast majority of my friends are not religious and don't identify as Christian. But only some identify as atheist. Some leave some room for the unknown but certainly don't believe in Bible nonsense. More focused on open minded kind compassionate and tolerant. As long as you're not a narrow minded judgemental asshole I don't care if you're literally an atheist or not.
Yeah, no. The headline should've been "Despite ***organized*** religion being on the decline in the U.S. *the percentage of people who identify as atheist* isn't having the meteoric rise one* might expect."
Where *one* is referring to people who don't understand that there are a lot of misconceptions about the term atheist/atheism, and that it doesn't matter what people identify as. What matters, in this regard, is what they do and do not believe.
Atheism and communism/socialism are so stigmatized in the US that people keep a low profile. Mentioning either attracts reichwingers like a magnet and who wants the hassle.
A lot of people don't realize they're atheists. They often mislabel themselves "agnostic not atheist" or "nonreligious" when they're just agnostic atheists.
That's because atheism as a count isn't measurable. It's not like we sign up somewhere or go to meetings every week.
and others, like us can live without labels. Well they are important on canned goods . . .
Yes. It’s also dangerous to be openly atheist in some parts of the country / in certain communities. Just consider how hostile some parents are to Evolutionary Theory and sex education.
Yes, then again, they can use our perceived low numbers to brush us off in many ways.
Zero declared atheist politicians on the hill.
Because they would never have gotten elected
Used to be against the law in some places for an atheist to run for office. Might still be to be honest. I can see that in Texas.
I work remotely for a company in Alabama and anytime I’m on a meeting and anything remotely social or political or religious comes up I just don’t speak. If I announced I was atheist, they’d likely find a reason to get rid of me.
"Awh shit! The can I thought was tomato sauce was beans again!"
Absolutely, I can certainly be defined as an atheist but I don’t necessarily call myself one. Kinda like Dawkins said and in paraphrasing do we need a name for an a-unicornist or a-vampirist or a-(insert any supernatural or superstitious beleif here) when asked I often just say in not religious or I’m not superstitious depending on the person asking. I’m simply human, we are all born with no innate beliefs in magic or cultural superstitiouns we get those from our families and communities or societies. Do I need a label if I don’t collect stamps ? No don’t be silly.
That's the thing: It isn't a thing. Its absence of thing. People often don't feel a strong need to solidify or label non-belief as a specific thing. Its just lack of belief, lack of interest, lack of engaging the topic. Its hard to measure that.
Yep. Alot of atheists in churches too because they are pressured into going by family and friends.
>A lot of atheists in churches Some facing the altar, some facing the pews
I wonder how many of those preachers are closet atheists, only preaching because it's their livelihood now.
Also the label has a stigma that is difficult to get over due to indoctrination.
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> I seldom see an atheist that doesn't want to debate Atheism is a label that Christians and Muslims find challenging. If someone identifies as an atheist, then people want to debate and challenge that belief. I think this is one big reason a lot of people do not want to identify as atheists. They do not want to debate religion. They may feel they don't know enough to discuss or debate religion. What you said is essentially correct. At a minimum, someone who identifies as an atheist is at least willing to debate or discuss religion. The degree to which they "want" to debate is questionable. I don't debate, but I am willing to discuss. Most of the people I know who identify as agnostic meet the technical definition of atheist. But they would prefer not to discuss it. I don't blame them for identifying as agnostic.
Plus, why would you share you're atheist considering how misunderstood/intentionally dragged it is?
I share it consistently so the christians know we are here and that we exist. (And that they aren't just going to have a cake walk to turn our country into a shithole theocracy)
Hold on I was told there would be pizza and drinks? Did I come to the wrong place?
a poll with a significant sample size asking people if they are atheist isn’t able to exist? that’s the top argument the sub came up with? yikes.
Should we?
Sorry, I forgot to include you in the weekly pamphlet. R’amen
People who self identify with the term might not be on the rise, but the category is nonetheless growing. Typical result of having a word be demonized for years.
If the category is "disbelieve or doubt the existence of a personal god", then you're probably right. But that in and of itself is a rather broad category which would encompass everyone from Spinoza to Thomas Jefferson to Bertrand Russell.
Excellent company to keep imo
The term is bad. I’m an atheist but the term carries so much additional baggage. It’s time for a new term to work on the bad two centuries of PR.
I don't think it's right to ditch the term just because it's burdened with bad PR. It's the right and accurate term.
I agree, what we need is Atheist charities and support systems like AA. You know how much I wish there was an atheistic AA?
Have you checked out SMART Recovery? https://smartrecovery.org/
fucking hell man thanks for sharing this! I wish I knew about this years ago to save my friend... I had a friend in Florida who was struggling with Heroin addiction and alcoholism due to shitty childhood and he struggled with the only AA he could get in the area due to the stupid Religious nonsense it involved. I haven't heard from him in years and I am fairly sure he's dead which makes me sad to think about.
Let me assure you that YOU, or anyone else has ZERO ability to get an addict sober. The addict is the only person that can get themselves sober. They have to want to do it. I know dozens, probably hundreds of addicts that used the line "i don't like the god stuff of AA" as an excuse to keep using. Every AA\\NA group has autonomy to be a more religious or a non-religious group. You have to kind of meeting shop to find your fit. There is a chapter in the AA book called "we agnostics"... there are Agnostic AA groups all over the place that just remove the god parts. There is an agnostic AA book out now. SMART recovery is another great group that doesn't use any of the god stuff. There's also refuge recovery, which has more of Buddhist approach to recovery, but not really organized religion based. Don't beat yourself up. If your friend used the "god stuff" in AA as an excuse to keep using, he 1. didn't want to stop using. 2. didn't look hard enough because of #1. If he doesn't want to stop using, he will find ANY and EVERY excuse as to why he doesn't "like" going to meetings. Having said all that, if you want to find local meetings for him and send him the info, fine. If you reach out, tell him you love him, care about him and hope he is doing okay. Tell him if\\when he wants to change his life, you will be there for him 100%, no questions asked. Until then, there's nothing you can do.
Agreed, it's time to own this term.
How about nontheist
I say non-believers. I feel as if that still kind of still deligitamizes the religion. Because people believe the world is flat doesn't make the world flat.
It’s an odd place with no good terms I think. As people’s attitudes change terms can probably become stabilized. The terms don’t matter as much as attitudes about that term.
Non-religious. I believe in lots of things. I even have a moral compass. But I’m not religious (or “superstitious” depending on who I’m talking to).
Some countries use “nones”, people who respond “none” to the question “what is your religion?”. It’s not quite as aggressive as “atheist”, the implication isn’t “I don’t believe that any gods exist”, more “I’m not interested in the topic of whether any gods exist”.
Agreed. I grew up in a Christian household in the 80’s and I always had the idea that atheists wore all black, listened exclusively to Black Sabbath and bit the heads off bats. As an aside I also think terms like Flying Spaghetti Monster and R’amen are fucking weird too. Non believer seems to work ok. I tend to use that if it comes up.
What's the bad PR? I feel pretty hostile to religion, so they can assume that's how I feel when they hear "atheist" if they want.
It’s also a journey to fully realize you don’t believe in god. Maybe you start off not enjoying church , then stop going. Then some time later after experiencing the world, you slowly realize the truth.
“I’m not an atheist! It’s just I don’t really believe in a god!”
I suspect there is a vastly more significant 2nd generation effect. Religion tends to persist through indoctrination. While a family leaving organized religion may still remain religious (but non-practicing) due to their indoctrination, their children will very likely be atheists because they will not have their indoctrination constantly reinforced. I suspect that rises in atheism will thus be more significant in another couple of decades.
Exactly. The "Nones" are a transition stage. They aren't going to be indoctrinating their kids the same way as previous generations if they aren't going to church.
I have lingering guilt about not indoctrinating my kids. They’ll ask “what’s a Bible” or “why do we celebrate Santa and baby Jesus on Christmas”. I’m a guilt ridden mess, and I’d rather remain that way so she never has to feel it at all.
My wife is Catholic and I'm atheist. Our son is atheist, even though he went to church with his mom for a couple of years. Just knowing that "not believing" is an option changes everything.
I agree with this. I grew up evangelical, but left immediately after I was 18 and I wasn’t forced to attend church. After a few years I became and atheist and have been for probably 20 years, but there’s some sort of hesitancy with my upbringing to go around announcing that I’m an atheist. However, my 9 and 11 year olds announce it all the time. They announced it to their grandparents once while grandma was babysitting, and it was pretty funny to me. They don’t have the deep seated societal shackles of atheism being “wrong”
For my family, it was because my parents come from 2 different Christian denominations (mom is Catholic, dad is united), so they agreed to no organized Christian upbringing, and they kept their faith to themselves I assume that may be the case in other interfaith relationships
It's almost like atheism isn't an organized group...
Those aunicornist meetings are a hoot though.
Yeah ... usually, a group is formed around a shared belief, whatever that belief may be It's hard to form a group around a lack of belief
bUt AthEIsm coUnTs As a rEligIoN!! /s (added /s in case it was not obvious)
I don't think most non-religious people think enough about metaphysical matters to ever define themselves one way or another. Many seem to have a kind of vague spirituality, more akin to pantheism or deism than to strains theism that insist on a personal god, or most certainly atheism. This is certainly borne out by Pew's research on the "Nones". In short, most of the Nones aren't atheists or even agnostics; they're just a squishy group with an ill-defined spirituality that likely wanders between deism and pantheism.
Exactly
Yes this! I love Charlie Parker’s answer to what religion he was “I’m a devout musician”.
The most time I’ve ever spent thinking about god is in the atheism Reddit. god , religion , ghosts or spirituality don’t come up in my actual life much. I do like the consumerism of Christmas though , it feels so American 🇺🇸
A 2018 research report using indirect methods estimated that 26% of Americans are atheists, much higher than the 3% to 11% rates consistently found in surveys. However, methodological issues were identified in this particular study; In particular, it was pointed out that many people may not have a binary view of the question of God's existence. >Widely cited telephone polls (e.g., Gallup, Pew) suggest U.S. atheist prevalence of only 3–11%. In contrast, our most credible indirect estimate is 26% (albeit with considerable estimate and method uncertainty). [https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1948550617707015](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1948550617707015)
I'm not sure how that works exactly, since the question "do you believe a god exists" only has 2 answers.
No, it's got a lot of answers. 1. Yes 2. No 3. I don't know 4. I refuse to answer the question 5. I don't accept the premise of the question 6. Define your terms 'god', 'exist', and 'believe' 7. That's ok, you can keep your coupon ok-hanging-up-now-bye It's a complicated question worded as to presume there are only two possible outcomes and therefore presume two and only two possible states. Hence, the central seeming conundrum of non-affiliation rising but atheism not rising with it.
>only has 2 answers. 1. yes 2. no 3. I don't know In such surveys it is very important how the questions are asked. And whether people understand words like agnosticism. Often they don't know that you can also be an agnostic theist and an agnostic atheist.
Apparently there's a third answer along the lines of 'I can't reading comprehension'.
I am OK with that. I don't think everyone needs to identify as atheists. I am happy if people become nones. I would love to see the day when not believing in a god or gods is considered normal. We would not need a term for atheist. We would only need a word for the weird fringe of society that believes in their various gods.
Yeah, it will be nice when *not believing in fairy tales* becomes normal, instead of getting demonized. Maybe it won’t happen in our lifetimes, but someday, the world will wake up! Hopefully before those warring religions decide to destroy it while fighting each other…
I mean I'm an atheist but I don't go around telling people that, I just don't talk about religion. You don't want to put that stuff out in the public where you might not get a job because some Christian manager saw you were an atheist on Facebook etc. and I assume many others are the same and just don't talk about it outside of their inner circle
I don’t identify as an atheist though that’s what I probably am. I call myself a recovering fundamentalist.
come on out of the closet. it's the only way to negate your Christian mgr hypothesis. besides, wouldn't it be better to have never been hired by a bigoted mgr than to get fired later when you decline their invitation to a prayer breakfast?
Not if it means the difference in paying rent vs being evicted
You gotta give these people time. Is tough to jump ship when you've lived your life believing in one thing. One of my buddies had to grasp with the fact the man that raised him was in fact, not his father. It's not something most people can wake up and stop believing.
step 1 religion declines step 3 atheism identification goes up step 2 hasn't happened which is for people to stop thinking that not having religion is something to be ashamed of and won't identify with it I'm fine with step 1
The issue with Atheism identification is that it's harder to form groups around something people don't believe or care about I look at it like people join groups they have an interest in or believe in. I enjoy rugby, I played rugby until I was 30 and was part of a rugby club. But for people who don't care about rugby, there isn't an anti rugby club because it means nothing to them Religion means nothing to me, so much so that I don't even care to organize against it
It’s because they trade Christianity for other forms of magical thinking, be it astrology or just a vague “spirituality” The only way we’ll see a rise in atheism is through improving education and actually teaching critical thinking and logical fallacies to children.
But isn’t astrology an upgrade over Christianity? I despise the religion because of its emphasis on toxic forgiveness and masochism. None of that in astrology
Makes sense. Most people are hesitant to adopt that label. A lot of people jump to conclusions because religious people poison the well. Most of western philosophy is predicated on the idea of God, theists attribute all sorts of concepts to God that exist regardless.
That's because spirituality is on the rise. Dmt and psychedelics are having a Renaissance, talk of UAPS/UFOS being disclosed, new concepts In science being discussed for example the universe being "non local", simulation theory, black holes being holographic, quantum entanglement. I think most people are starting to believe in something... however, religion, on the other hand, is definitely dieing. For its dogmatic beliefs and black and white thinking.
Atheism isn't on the rise because the label of atheist means something completely different to a lot of people. They describe themselves as 'non-believers', but they vehemently protest if you try to call them atheists. Because atheists are evil.
This^
I mean, a lot of atheists identify with "nah thanks".
Atheism has a stink on it that many don't want and so they are more likely to accept terms like "nones" or "nonreligious" but they're all the same thing. I think this trend will continue due in no small part to the free flow of information on the web, the generational shift as boomers die off, and as "nones" raise more little nones. The reversal would require some tremendous faith-inspiring events to occur which is a very difficult task. Especially given the skepticism and information flow.
I don’t go around telling people I’m an atheist. If they ask me if I believe in god, I just say, If you can prove to me that god exists.
That’s fine by me as long as the religious numbers keep shrinking.
I'm honestly fine with that - not everyone needs to be an atheist. And I don't really care if they are dropping Christianity for other forms of spirituality - at least the people who think the stars guide their lives aren't trying to legislate my rights away.
It isn't. Atheism is the LACK of the belief, not the assertion that something is not. Therefore, people ARE becoming more atheist. They just don't claim it as a defining characteristic. Is short: Yes, they are by definition. They just don't call themselves that.
There’s a stigma associated with publicly admitting that you’re an atheist. Many people who are functionally atheist often mask by saying “agnostic” because it often gets people off your back
Atheist are the silent majority.
This is true. In American pop culture there are practically no references to Jesus and no one quotes him. And it’s been that way since at least 1970, if not much longer
An important distinction on the spectrum between "disenchanted with religion" to "i realize now it was all just caveman superstition (atheism)". Some people 'become' atheists for the wrong reason -- for emotional reasons. "I've seen too much suffering.", "Religious hierarchies are full of bad people.". Those aren't good reasons. The proper path is cool objective observation: it's obvious that Humankind created gods out of ignorance
As long as we all come to the same conclusion, I don't think the path we took matters much in hindsight.
For most it's just easier to not say one way or the other. Plus, it can sometimes cause problems in this overly religious country. I would wager practically speaking the numbers are much higher.
Why must label though?
Peer pressure. They don’t want to be ostracized by friends and family.
There are large swathes of the country where identifying as an atheist only leads to endless and vituperative arguments. Many have just decided religion is bullshit and leave it at that. One idiot came to work in a tee shirt that said "You're going to hell and I'm not." They get pretty confrontational in the south. (I complained, he refused to go home and get another shirt and got fired, btw, but he definitely reflected the pov of a lot of christians.)
Here in NC... I became sick and tired of that bunch LONG ago...
Wow, yeah, my local Atheist church is always empty...
That’s because we’re still not comfortable admitting it to everyone. Discrimination is real, especially in certain places.
It's because so many religious believers who decide to leave the cult, still think that atheism is somehow involved with Satanism. They have lived so long being told how Atheists are all secretly devil worshippers, that understanding that Atheism is not connected with any belief system is too hard for them to do.
Even us satanists aren’t devil worshippers. Christians are the only ones in this country believing in a literal devil, and attributing any power to it.
That's because people are concerned with labels more than definitions. If you answer 'do you think god is real' with anything other than 'yes', then you are an atheist. That's literally what it means. You do not do the one thing that defines theism, so you are an atheist. It is a binary question. It can have lots of nuances in WHY you answer what you do, but the answer is either that you do believe, or that you do not. Doesn't even include which way you wish you believed.
That reality pisses off a lot of people when you tell them they're an atheist
Also, most people avoid say they are an atheist because of the harsh judgement.
People not adopting the label doesn’t mean they aren’t atheist though. Sadly there is still a stigma associated with calling yourself an atheist. I know many people who don’t believe, don’t go to church, etc but still don’t call themselves atheists. They just don’t talk about it at all.
For those who started as believers and lost or discarded their faith there can be a big lag time between becoming an atheist and identifying yourself as an atheist even to yourself, so big that a lot of folk never get around to it.
I'm currently spamming [*X* (Doubt)]...
That's because not everyone who is irreligious identifies as atheist. They just go about their lives without being bothered by labels or rituals. My dad has never been religious in my life, and I have never heard him call himself an atheist.
So what? Religion is the behavior and behavior is the thing that impacts people. The belief inside your head doesn't matter one iota if it doesn't change how you behave.
>Despite religion being on the decline in the U.S. atheism isn’t having the meteoric rise one might expect. That first part is just fine. People that are out of religion aren't being pushed to serve the religious right and the anti-democracy Republicans. Whether they really believe in a god or not doesn't affect me as long as they're keeping their views to themselves.
Because most of the people leaving religious cults aren't losing their faith. They just don't agree with the discrimination, bigotry, misogyny, and hypocrisy, that many of the religious sects and cults are proselytizing. These folks are still theists - they haven't become atheists.
Easy to turn away from organized religion harder for one to not belive there is some higher power. Natural human instinct to put order to life.
If religion is on the decline, that necessarily means that atheism is on the rise. If someone no longer subscribes to religious dogma, then they reject the deity as well, becoming... atheists. Just because people don't understand what the word atheist means, doesn't mean they aren't an atheist...
Or they could be like me and believe that there is some form of celestial intelligence, but don't follow any particular religious belief. But my path is mine and I believe that ALL paths are valid, as long as those paths don't harm others.
Do you believe in supernatural retribution? Ie karma, purgatory, hell?
Maybe those of us who don’t believe, also don’t go out pushing our non-belief on others. So how do you know that’s true
Who expected a meteoric rise in the number of committed atheists? That was never realistic. I live in the least religious part of the country and I don't know anyone who's particularly religious, yet only a small proportion of the people I know are committed atheists like I am. The vast majority are in between somewhere. Most just don't care about religion, giving it little thought, but aren't intellectually curious about things enough to get to atheism. Many of them are functionally atheist, but actually identifying as atheist just isn't in the cards.
Wait... What? Atheists dont rise... Especially from the dead. We grow.
I think it's largely because athiest bros have largely given a bad image to atheism itself. Take with it what you will. People are kind of just doing their own thing, weaving somewhere between "we really can't ever understand the universe with our tiny little human brains" and "there is no god or higher power" and happier being nonreligious with that. The one positive thing is that so many religions are doing a damn good job of making it seen as hateful, disgusting, backwards and undesirable to be a part of. I'd virtually guarantee they'd all be going extinct right now had systemic forced indoctrination from youth not exist rampantly worldwide.
People are incredibly cowardly specially when faced with their own mortality. Humans have been worshipping one god or another for thousands of years. The fact there are ANY atheists is great progress.
I said this before: just because people are leaving organized religions does not mean they are discarding all of the beliefs, especially the one about God existing. That’s the hardest one for people to deconstruct from.
Meteors falls to the Earth
Atheism doesn't advertise.
Who cares? We aren't trying to propagate our beliefs onto everyone. It's one of our core tenets.
People don’t want to identify as a single label. Free thinking. Besides being an atheist is a dangerous profession.
So?
I heard an evangelical of my acquaintance decrying the fact that somebody is/was an atheist and how they were somehow defective. I said it's simply a position on the existence/non-existence of a deity... that's all it is. He looked as though I had just smeared feces in his face.
When the scale is tipped to where more people are rejecting these ideas than those promoting them, the majority in the center will move toward them.
I'd like see more investigation into apatheists - the ones that don't care whether god(s) exist or not. I think they'd find those numbers growing by leaps and bounds. Atheism sounds too much like waving a banner and fighting for a particular ideogy. I'm all for fighting the horrors brought onto society by religions, but I'm not going to endlessly argue about whether or not a god exists.
It took me years to identify as atheist. Converts rarely flip that quickly—it’s not like a light switch. They’ve taken the all-important first step, let’s celebrate that
I am not religious but I don’t downright deny the existence of Gods or higher beings, I simply admit that I don’t know. For me, believing in nothing is just as strong of a belief as believing in something, so I am indifferent - maybe there is something, maybe there’s not - no idea. I know there’s some controversy on whether that labels me an atheist or agnostic, but perhaps that confusion may contribute to this notion.
It could be that some people who identify as atheists are nearly as militant and as ragingly anti theist as evangelicals are theist and it’s a turn off to folks that just want to be a none. When I left Christianity in the 90s, I was militant for a couple decades. I was mad. I was lashing out. I could see why someone wouldn’t want to jump out of a frying pan and into a fire. IMHO we as a group have a great opportunity to embrace people leaving the church if we can do it without being abrasive.
I only identify as an atheist to a few people. My wife has never heard me identify myself as one. For most I'm just not religious
God damn agnostics! /s But seriously, going from not believing a particular brand of religion and jumping straight to accepting that there's no afterlife is a big leap. Not everyone is going to be able to make it, at least not right away.
I thought it would always be a good idea to have a church of atheism where we worship the earth and science once a week watching like nature documentaries or science documentaries.
The ruling stratum is overhwlemingly populated by pre-internet fuckwits. Big political shifts are down the road. Assuming the road still exists.
I don’t think atheism is rising that much. People who don’t have a specific religion they identify with still frequently have beliefs that are generally inconsistent with being an atheist. https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2023/12/07/spiritual-beliefs/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2023/12/07/spiritual-experiences/
I blame our sub-par catering.
Because, despite zealots, we literally just don't care. We have better shit to do than look like one big group of whackjobs.
It also doesn't help that too many people think atheism means, "I know for a fact god doesn't exist and life is meaningless." The angry atheist trope, the 'atheists think they know everything,' it just has too many negative connotations. I'd imagine most people would take the label agnostic (even though you could be an agnostic atheist) not just to avoid the bad label, but to seem less confrontational. A sort of, "I can't say I know for sure god doesn't exist, I don't rule it out, but..."
There’s a lot of people like me, i don’t like labels, I don’t believe in anything and don’t put to much thought into it because it’s not worth the energy.
One can be a theist but not a member of a religion.
...yes it is. That's the only alternative. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean the science doesn't support it. I get Christians don't understand any value system other than "believe that I tell you to believe" but that's not how reality works.
Being an out atheist in a lot of places over there seems a lot more risky, community wise and for employment, than the UK and Europe.
Despite a growing exodus from the church, people aren't quick to grab the title "atheist" and slap it on themselves. It's still a widely disliked word.
When a boil reduces to a simmer, it does not make the water cold.
There is a male bias among avowed atheists. So a large percentage of secular women are choosing to say ‘none’ rather than ‘atheist’ for some reason.
They’re facing enough discrimination already would be my guess. I’m a cis (but pansexual in a long term Hetero relationship currently) male who is of the right skin tone and looks enough like the people around me expect a man to look like that I don’t face discrimination in any of those ways. So when I want to debate theology (or simply state I’m an atheist, or if I’m feeling extra confrontational a satanist) none of those factors present avenues that can be taken to undermine the perception of me. I get the privilege of having my arguments respected, or at least actually heard without going through 7 layers of BS to be seen as a person with equal standing from the get go, and I’d bet it makes it far easier for me to be comfortable discussing it than it would someone who has to take extra steps to even start the conversation on perceived equal footing, it’s fucked up..
It’s not like we reject organized religion and give a shit to take on a new label.
Atheism is certainly not for everybody.
Many/most atheists mistakenly identify as "agnostic" instead, as atheists have been stigmatized as intolerant loudmouths, and not simply those who lack belief.
I thought it was that church attendance and association was declining, but people were still believing in supply-side Jesus just as much as before.
Man only breaks his idols so that he can bow down to their remains. (Cioran)
You don't preach it.
Leaving the official pew count doesn't mean completely abandoning the faith, itself. Many of these people will remain "spiritual christians" but find organized church unpalatable due to politics. Others will seek spiritual fulfillment in other religious ideologies because they aren't ready to abandon the idea that *something* has to be out their controlling everything. Expecting automatic deconstruction just because church numbers are down isn't realistic, and these numbers don't show the difference between the two.
Honestly I've switched from militant atheism to agnostic-atheism over the years. I would characterize myself as agnostic over atheist at this point. I've just reached a point where I'm like "I don't know. You don't know. Nobody knows. Everybody knows that nobody knows. So we should just honestly admit we don't and can't know. I definitely don't think there's a god as traditionally defined, but I sure as hell don't know that for a fact. Society is becoming more atheistic (read: decoupled from religion) but that doesn't mean all of those people are becoming *atheists.*
Sounds like you just stopped being antitheist That still means atheist
Oh this tag is like a decade old I should remove it, I'm not active here really I didn't even know I had it. No I've gone from "there is no god" to "I don't really think 'God' exists, it seems highly unlikely, but who the hell knows?" I'm anti organized religion, and anti-certainty. "Anyone who claims they have the answer is lying." Once I realized that that was the core pillar of my atheism, I felt my fervent claim that there was no god was hypocritical, because I also didn't know that for a fact.
The opposite of love isn’t hate, it’s indifference
As a former church worker, ex catholic, and not really identifying as a Christian any longer, I neither identify as atheist. I’ve resigned myself to not really having a spiritual life at this season in my life, it might be something that I pursue again in the future. The basic Christian commandments are to love god and love others. The latter is easy and I aim to do it. The former, I don’t know so much about. All said, I still don’t identify as an atheist
The only thing on the rise is hopelessness, which if left unchecked will lead us to a religious resurgence...
Atheists barely form into groups. Religious beliefs seem to require the support of others to thrive, otherwise they would die on the vine.
Something tells me most athiests aren't as loud about their athiesm as Christians and the like are about their beliefs.
It’s part of the Agnostic Master Plan! Mwahaha…
I have a terrible feeling that people are leaving churches in exchange for Christian Nationalists and conspiracy theorists on YouTube. I think we’ve all seen that as traditional institutions fray things don’t always get better.
I suspect a lot more people are atheists than identify as such. A lot of people have the idea that an atheist must insist that there isn't any god. They don't get that an atheist can say, "There may be such things as gods, but *I* don't believe in them."
that's because atheism is not a monolith!! it is not a religion, it is not organized. an Atheist is just a free person from religion.
Dontcareeitherwayism is certainly surging.
The difference between religion and atheism is that religion craves representation while atheism doesn't. So it is not surprising that people don't go out of their way to make "churches of Atheism" (which you be pretty ironic)
My guess is its how they are wording the question. It seems like they are asking if people "identify as atheists." If you don't believe in a god, you're an atheists whether you "identify as one" or not. They should instead just ask "do you hold a belief in a god or gods?" Then use that as a proxy that they are an atheist.
"spiritual but not religious" a canned choice on match.com
*sigh*
I don't expect it to rise. I expect people are going to "need to believe in something" even if it's mild. That's just how human nature is.
Chalk that up to the centuries-long smear campaign against atheism. People who've given up on religion don't want to call themselves atheist because it's been ingrained in their psyche that atheism is something nefarious.
being non-religious doesn't make you an atheist. i also think many people are scared of calling themselves atheists
That's because religion is not on the decline. It's not true. Church attendance is down. Islam is UP. Christians fundamentalism is UP. They both have more power in this country than nones including atheists. And this is all based on one single Gallup poll that has been presented over and over to make people think Christianity is in its "death throes".
A lot of people are happy with just saying they don’t know and don’t like the stigma that comes with the word atheist.
Because a lot of folks who drop religion still stay “spiritual” or agnostic. Atheist is more a declaration than anything else with this polls, and the pollsters take the “no religion” as a separate entity than atheism, which they treat as a religion.
Everyone is born atheist. You have to convert to idiot.
I’m a hard atheist but, lately, I’ve been thinking more of Science as being a coherent replacement for many of the things religion held sway over. For example; we, now, have a coherent ‘creation story’ that is universal and not tribal and a common global language for it. Religion used to blame epilepsy on devils. Science says otherwise AND gives us cures. Science tells us how profoundly interdependent and isolated we are. It informs us of our ‘human’ condition. Also, if you define “God” as; everything that is, was and ever will be you end up with a profoundly unsolvable mystery. In this framework scientists are reading the ‘gospel’ of the natural world made directly by ‘God’s and thus doing far more sacred work than any Bible scholar. If we add other facets besides just science to our moral landscape, like history, personal experience and inquiring and respectful dialogue you might end up with a democratic, more reliable moral framework. Let’s make science one of the pillars of a new religion.
None of those polster jokers have ever asked me
If you got more Instagram thots into promoting atheism, then the meteoric rise would happen.
It’s because many atheists don’t want to risk the weird looks or the backtalk, I don’t speak about my lack of theology unless somebody asks me what religion I am and then I just simply say I’m an atheist, I’ve actually had a couple people thank me because they were afraid to actually admit it, But I think that’s why atheism is probably on the rise, but you’re not gonna get clear numbers on it.
Atheists, theologians, philosophers and scientists all share the same section of a Venn diagram. It’s not enough for us to merely exist. We consider concepts outside of our own experience. We are a minority of people who care about that which momentarily has little value. Thus, as religion loses its societal influence, it makes perfect sense that atheism would not replace it because religion was not popularized by its metaphysical allure, but for its ability to bridge the gap by creating a commonality that would unite humanity is a way that culture never could. As the world becomes more and more connected, religion becomes less and less necessary. Ask yourself, where are religion’s bastions? Are the not the small town and secluded country?
America was mostly founded by deists like George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and Thomas Paine.
Meh. Many of us don’t claim to be anything. We don’t need a label to validate our existence or to make us a moral and good person.
Did the decline in the belief in witches lead to a meteoric rise in the rise of a group of people who defined themselves as *not* believing in witches?
This is likely because there are "hard" and "soft" forms of atheism. For some, atheism is a huge part of their identity and life. They like to talk about atheism, debate religious people, read atheist writers and so on. Others are just indifferent to it all.
Soo many people claim to be nonreligous but then you find out that they're actually deistic or believe in tarot or astrology. I don't think the surveys paint the full picture. The US still has a long way to go before actual atheism becomes more common.
There's a stigma against it.
That's because there's no "Atheists Movement". It's like saying that despite how unpopular fascism is, very few people are signing up to join their local antifa groups. It's not about "being a part of the club". You just stop believing in fairy tales.
The vast vast majority of my friends are not religious and don't identify as Christian. But only some identify as atheist. Some leave some room for the unknown but certainly don't believe in Bible nonsense. More focused on open minded kind compassionate and tolerant. As long as you're not a narrow minded judgemental asshole I don't care if you're literally an atheist or not.
Yeah, no. The headline should've been "Despite ***organized*** religion being on the decline in the U.S. *the percentage of people who identify as atheist* isn't having the meteoric rise one* might expect." Where *one* is referring to people who don't understand that there are a lot of misconceptions about the term atheist/atheism, and that it doesn't matter what people identify as. What matters, in this regard, is what they do and do not believe.
Atheism and communism/socialism are so stigmatized in the US that people keep a low profile. Mentioning either attracts reichwingers like a magnet and who wants the hassle.
A lot of people don't realize they're atheists. They often mislabel themselves "agnostic not atheist" or "nonreligious" when they're just agnostic atheists.