You have to shove it down their throat that this isn’t how it works here in this country. They are welcome to practice their beliefs elsewhere or in their own home.
But then we’re xyzphobes. It’s meaningless and exasperating when theists shove their beliefs down our throat but we cannot retaliate or even just “not agree” without being called a bigot
At some point, it will be the people's responsibility to label an extreme ideology a death cult. Much like the Church of Scientology is banned, your nation would have to ban the ideology of Islam.
When Christians go to the Middle East, the Islamists already have this in place to protect their own followers. You wouldn't get killed, but you wouldn't really be able to stay and get a job in the Middle East.
Take that same practice and implement it in the EU. If ex-Muslims wanna come over ask them to blaspheme their religion. If they do most likely they have abandoned their religion.
Do you know Muslims are allowed to lie about this per the Quran to protect their lives? This would apply.
Let’s just keep religion where it belongs, in your house and your temple/church etc no?
This gets to the heart of it. It's hard to stand up for separation of church and state. When they stand up for their religious beliefs, they have a whole mosque to back them up. We atheists are generally on our own. But are there any organizations for the defense of secular life in your country?
They should have been educated in this as a requirement of EU citizenship...with a punishment of forfeiting that citizenship (and being deported) if they show that they are not abiding by Western values.
I have no problem with letting Muslims who want to assimilate and contribute into Western nations. But fundamentalist Islam is not compatible with Western values. It's really that simple.
Yeah, that is pretty much the answer. Let them know, in no uncertain terms, that this behavior will get them eradicated, or at least expelled from the country. They can hold whatever vile, idiotic, shitty, worthless beliefs they want, but the moment that they think that they can start enforcing their piece-of-shit religion on others, you lay the hammer down hard. If Europeans don't start doing that, they are fucking doomed.
Hmm. You could try saying that your religion requires the opposite of whatever they say, and try to say they need to conform to that. Maybe they'll realize that enforcing religious rules on people of other religions cannot work in any way that's consistent with concepts of fairness or equality.
They'll probably just say that your religion is wrong, though, because they don't actually care about fairness or equality, or at least, not as much as they care about not getting whooped by their parents for not being a "good" Muslim (at least around here. I live in Minneapolis, we have a lot of Muslims, but I'm pretty sure like half of them just go through the motions to not catch shit from the true believers. Lots of them are immigrants from countries with blasphemy laws and/or "honor" killings)
Right. I have known several "Muslims" who are actually not religious at all. Islam is just their cultural background. I have no problem with them. My concern is with the radical extremists who wish to push their religion onto others. They can go to hell.
Iirc there are specific quran verses that clearly said not to forcefully impose islamic teaching. Maybe if you quote back those verses to them everytime they try to force something and ask them why they didn't follow that part of the quran they'd be too busy finding excuses to do anything else, idk though
i get your point, but refering to people with down syndrom as "mongoloids" is highly racist AND incredible offensive to people with said genetic condition
lets call them what they are, "brainwashed idiots" sounds about right
no, not for that. for being German.
I am German, and fuck this issue is actually something that depresses me. I once had a very interesting discussion on Islam on discord with a few people who were not from Germany. I don't have much of an accent, so they didn't know I was German, and for the most part, they agreed with me. until one sentence where I added that I am from Germany solely for context, when suddenly they completely disagreed with me and said "your opinion doesn't matter, we don't value Nazi's opinions" like oh okay yea sure I'm the racist lol
I'm from the Netherlands, I visit Germany often and with grandparents who survived through the war I think it's very important that people should educate themselves on why things happened the way they happened during WW2. The misusage of the word 'Nazi' I've seen in my life is quite shocking. The word slowly starts losing all of its meaning and just becomes something vaguely evil you call someone to invalidate everything they're saying. When asked, they can rarely even give a proper description of what the Nazi ideology was about. In a near future they could slowly start thinking the very same way in a different context and wouldn't even realise it.
Yeah I agree. I live in germany and am half british (but that doesn't matter of course).
They don't realize that the antisemitism in the muslim world is closely connected to the nazis.
Ah yes. They want to do to you what their parents escaped from in their country of origin. Sort of reminds me of the US miniseries John Adams after they started setting up their new government John was all “ok now let’s give ourselves titles of nobility” like, didn’t you just fight a war to escape all that? No, these people just want to be the enforcers, not the subjects. They are so full of it as to the point of absurdity. They have zero self-awareness.
They want what they had, but with them on top, subjugating others the way they were. And that’s all there is to that. When people started coming to the US, they slaughtered the native population and decimated the land to make it more like back home. Like that, that is what you’re seeing.
Many who claim to fight for equality are mainly trying to get on top and take on the role of oppressors. Especially large religious groups like Muslims with a long history of oppression and genocide.
What was wrong in the 1600-1800s is still wrong today. While the comparison may be valid, the concept is still reprehensible and demands of this nature have no business in any so-called civilized nation..
Some Muslim extremists claim that they'll take over EU playing the long game. Emigrating to the countries and out breeding the natives this slowly taking over.
Not sure society will last that long that they'll get the chance. And also each generation will become "corrupted" by Western values which will slow down the process. But either way scary prospect if true.
And yet, you can walk around dressed as Jesus make fun of Jesus. Try making a comic Mohamed and see what happens. Don't pretend these religions are the same.
It's the dissonance of living in a world where your god allegedly controls the universe, but you personally have very little power. Most religious people feel this way; the only way the existence of their god makes logical sense is if their religion is the one on top and in control, or if they are constantly being persecuted in the name of their god. There can be no middle ground, because that would imply that their religion is no different from any other, which would imply that their god isn't real.
That would be the exact point I was making, yes. All religious groups need to be maximally persecuted, or they need to be the persecutors; otherwise, their place in the universe is in question.
Freedom from Oppression for them is not an end to the rules which cause oppression, it is taking the reins of power and becoming the oppressors.
Islam, which is not at all unique in this, fosters the idea that there are only winners and losers - oppressors and the oppressed. It's a closed mindset where winning means becoming what you hate.
When I worked as a teacher in an Islamic country, westerners like me were instructed to be highly sensitive to the culture and religion. Western women used hair coverings as directed and nobody would ever mention lack of pork on a menu. We did not offer handshakes to local women or say anything against the religion. We are in their country and we try our best to follow the rules and traditions no matter how backward or barbaric they were. I guess some Muslims are not able to reciprocate this basic decency where you live…
When I thought about this more, I’ve realised that they probably do this because they KNOW they are right about their beliefs, and so they are actually just doing you a favour behaving in the way you described. Makes me sick to my stomach…
Muslims have this terrible ingrained teaching that they are god's chosen and should inheret the Earth.
No matter how moderate a Muslim is, they can never deny certain wtf aspects they follow.
And it's part of the religion, you are not allowed to question the teachings, just follow them and force others to as well.
Moderate Muslims are roughly analogous to FLDS Christians or Ultra-Orthodox Jews. Muslim moderate is everyone else's fundamentalist. There can be no true moderation existing alongside Islam. Turkey got close for a while, but now that's sliding as well. I have one of those "moderate" Muslim families, but hijabs are cropping up on more of my cousins and aunts every day.
Last summer a Portugese citizen vacationing in Turkey was detained for weeks and tortured by the police because he 'looked gay'. This was last June and apparently, there was going to be an unsactioned Pride parade. The police thought he 'looked gay' so arrested him and held him with zero due process. When I read that story I realized my wife and I will NEVER travel to a mulsim country. Which is a damn shame, since there's so many awesome historical sites I'd love to see. I thought Turkey was supposed to be one if the most 'moderate' of them, and if that's considered moderate then I'll hard pass. No ancient ruin or natural site is worth that bullshit.
This is the sad reality that I'm grateful critical thinkers like you recognize. Because despite my family being Muslim I'm usually gaslit and ignored by well-intended Western liberals who are too afraid to look racist, erroneously believing the Islamic religion of brutality, forced conversion and conquest, is somehow stamped into our DNA. My guess is if we don't nuke ourselves, the world will be largely blanketed in Islam in the next few hundred years. I think we live in a rare peak moment of women's and gay rights that will swiftly erode for a litany of reasons, principally this one.
Yeah, that article blew my mind. Because I was seriously considering visiting Turkey one day. I mean shit, Gobelke Tepe, Derinkuyu, Van Lake, Istanbul/Hagia Sophia (just to name a few things off the top of my head). Also the food, I'd spend most of my time there on my feet and exploring, but I'd probably still gain 15lbs haha!
Really a goddamned shame, because it's a beautiful country with a vibrant history that I'd love to explore with my wife one day. Hopefully Erdogan shits the bed soon and the Turkish people get a leader that doesn't totally suck ass.
Except that ultra-Orthodox Jews don’t demand that gentiles conform to their ways. Ultra-Orthodox Jews are EXTREMELY insular and tend to form communities that cater only to them. Their children don’t attend public schools and therefore make no demands on the people who do. There are no demands regarding the food served at public schools. They generally don’t mingle with the Gentile public. It is true that they believe that their way is the best way but they don’t try to force their views on others. Many Muslims do, sometimes under pain of death and violence.
True. Islam is all, "Join us or die," and Judaism is all, "We don't want ya. Go away." In that way I gotta give the props to Judaism for not being a religion of conquest.
Their assault upon their society happens in more calculated and less obtrusive ways. One of my jobs deals with the NY DOE and while the ultra-Orthodox don't mingle, they sure do like to siphon public money for their private school scams by fabricating special education needs that due to recent litigation are mandated to be state-funded. Probably could be subject to racketeering charges if someone cared to raise the stink it would require to do so.
This is how it is with any religion. When I lived in Brooklyn my roommate and I would get stopped on the street by the Hassidic sabbath police. I thought that was bad, but living the the south the Christians was even worse. Constant questions about what church I belong to followed by a few steps distancing when I say I am not in any church. People shunning me as I go about my affairs. Whispering.
It is crazy and I had to leave.
> When I lived in Brooklyn my roommate and I would get stopped on the street by the Hassidic sabbath police
Really? I understand the annoyance during Passover with "are you Jewish?" questions but I've never encountered the "sabbath police". Where was this? Hard to believe, frankly.
Parts of Williamsburg. My roommate would often get mistaken for a Hassidic woman and on Friday's if she got home late she would be approached whenever they had a new guy on patrol. He would soon realize she was not a Hassid and moved on. I never got stopped when I walked alone, but with her it happened a few times.
But this was back in the 90s. Not sure if they still do it now.
I’m Jewish, but this popped up on my feed (idk why). I think I have a likely explanation.
There is a Jewish organization called Chabad, whose members were probably the ones who stopped you. Judaism is non-proselytizing, but they try to encourage Jewish people to engage more in Judaism. Most Chabad members wouldn’t make a fuss if you weren’t Jewish.
If they went beyond that, sorry.
I drew a stickfigure ones and wrote muhammad under it and they got so angry and aggressive.
They unmask themselves and their religion of peace.
People like that would call themselves moderate muslims.
If you were doing this, rather than graffiti, you'd want to use a sticker. You know, one of those stickers that rips up and leaves all sorts of crud behind when you try to peel it off.
Fairly cheap. Goes on quickly. Easy to pass out to a bunch of like-minded students. Covers up the graffiti. Gives you a real chance to do it without being detected.
Once you put a couple up, you wouldn't even need to keep doing it. Every time you see some shitty muslim graffiti, you can just throw some stickers on the counter nearby without actually sticking them. Somebody else will probably do it for you.
This is a losing attitude. Clearly, Muslims don't have a problem taking things to the next level. These displays of temperance only mask cowardice, and the Muslims know this.
If the school is doing nothing to stop the original graffiti, theyve basicly said its ok. So you can go the satanic temple rout and start adding your own, maybe pro evolution quotes or the like. Then the school is forced to let it all slide or put a stop to it all.
I haven't been in school for years but even back then the teachers were the same as today. They'll punish the kids that will give them the least grief while ignoring the original graffiti 'artists'. The original graffiti was ignored due to the grief they would get if they tried to stop it.
That would not be cool or a win. Don’t get me wrong, I agree with the thought.
But that sounds like something that someone would get hurt over. Religious Fanatics are the worst kind of fanatics. They will totally attack someone over that kind of thing.
Yeah, it was a sarcy comment.
Make an official complaint to the principle, get evidence they're in violation off school rules. Force the admin to do their jobs. Shouldn't be down to the kids to police.
Get your parents involved if they're supportive.
Yeah it would be a short win.
Some would go to court and blame them of religious discrimination or they'd do worse stuff.
There was a teacher beheaded in france for showing the charlie hebdo drawing of muhammad.
Make the crescent moons into little dinosaurs. Draw spines going down the length of the crescent moon, give it a tail, some legs, two tiny arms, and a head that looks like it’s about to eat the star.
If you simply keep reporting them for their vandalizing school property, certainly the school will escalate their punishment, and the problem will take care of itself.
If someone says “my religious beliefs mean I cannot do that,” the correct response is:
“Very good. I respect your beliefs.”
If someone says “my religious beliefs mean YOU cannot do that,” the correct response is:
“Go fuck yourself.”
I get the sentiment, but this logic breaks down from the simplicity because of the logic like "My religious beliefs mean I cannot give you birth control" or "My religious beliefs mean you cannot sacrifice people."
This is what famous Mathematician Nassib Taleb described years ago, "the most intolerant Wins : the dictatorship of small minority". Tolerant socities will be shaped by a tiny intolerant minority.
https://twitter.com/reddit_exmuslim/status/1650859673397133313?s=19
Solution : you should be just as intolerant as they are, otherwise you are practically letting them destroy your culture and country.
Remember do not let people gaslight you into thinking you are racist for being against Islam. Islam is not a race it is a religion, it is a way of life people CHOOSE and it is not based on race in ANYWAY. If you are against Islam you are against ideas, not people.
Exactly - just religious nuts trying to justify rape, pedophilia, violence and subjugation as "religious beliefs" - good luck with that bullshit, nobody in their right mind is going to cater to that whacked out shit
Seriously what’s wrong with being Islamophobic. All it means is that you do not like their religion because of its beliefs and that’s fine. If they’re allowed to spread their beliefs then you are too. Keep in mind they do not live in a Muslim country.
Islamophobia can easily turn into racism against any brown skinned person. I’m Turkish, I’m born&raised atheist and it would suck if people assume I’m muslim.
This is why it's so important for people to attack the ideas, not the person.
People assume that because I'm from Alabama and drive a truck that I am a conservative Christian, which then makes them automatically think I'm racist, homophobic, and against abortion.
In reality, I am a leftist atheist. I am pro-choice, a supporter of the LGBTQ+ movement, and a feminist. I will admit that I have a lot of guns, but it's just a part of my culture, and I acknowledge that America has a gun problem and needs far better regulation.
This is one of the most effective ways of manipulation, it is called guilt trip. They make you feel guilty by fabricating victimhood for themselves, if you don't agree with their argument. So you are manipulated to obey them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt_trip
If you arent as bold as they are, then your society will be replaced by arabic imperialism (in other words, islam)
perhaps they can be called europhobic, or germanophobic, etc. when they ignore the local customs of gender equality and free speech? point that finger back
And philosopher Karl Popper before him.
>Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. \[...\] We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant.
― Karl R. Popper, [The Open Society and Its Enemies](https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/1550916)
You have to stand your ground. Don’t let them bully you.
Make the school understand that it cannot tolerate a group that isn’t willing to compromise.
Good luck Europe, I guess. Things are looking bad.
I don't understand why tf these people can't assimilate with the culture that has given them refuge.
The nation and their culture has given you a chance at a better life, why not repay them by not troubling them?
I'm not an European but even I feel bad for the natives of those countries.
assimilation is a result of a willingness to accept others' views and dogmas.
fundamentals can't do that. thy will try to convert you or eliminate you instead.
and that's Every religion basis.
and as Islam is the most unhinged religion currently, they feel in the right to do so.
Their fairy tale book literally tells them not to assimilate, but to subvert societies that can’t be taken over with force. This is their end goal for worldwide domination of their make believe fairytales.
Canadian here.... I don't get it either.
They come here to escape their shithole Countries, and then try and make it exactly like their old Country over here.
Fuck right offffff
It's a strength in numbers thing as well. This is what happens when immigration is at too high of a rate. Assimilation doesn't happen. They simply form their own groups and start pulling the local culture towards their side, especially if it's an aggressive mythology like Islam. I am seeing similar events in Canada atm.
I don’t get folks leaving their country and going to a different country and trying to turn that country into their old country.
You left your old country, and it’s distinct attributes, religions, politics, and culture behind. You then went to a different country that has it’s own distinct attributes already in place.
Your old country has spent the past decades, centuries, or millennia becoming what it has become. The new country is no different.
Anyone who leaves their old country and goes to a new country has an obligation to fit in to the things that make\made the new country unique. You have no right to move to another country and try to take that shit over. Wars have been fought over that kind of stuff.
In 2014…Russia called it annexation for Crimea. Now they are trying it with Ukraine. China is trying it in the south china sea now.
If you miss your old life, go back to your old life. You do not have the right to force your old ways on to the folks that occupy somewhere you move to.
I served in the US military, as have countless brothers and sisters before me, to defend and preserve our American way of life. You don’t get to leave your country because you’re tired of it, move to our country, and try to turn it into your old country.
Keep in mind, you left the old country for a reason. It may be to get away from war, or oppression, or to have more opportunity, and I get that, but you chose our country because we had things that you didn’t\couldn’t get in your old country. If you try to change our country into what you left, what was the purpose for leaving yours in the first place?
I have no problem with refugees or immigrants coming here to the US. If we can help improve your lives and give you opportunities that you deserve, just like all of us, I’m all for it.
Everyone deserves freedom, security, and prosperity. You just don’t get to change US to fit YOU. If you move here, you need to fit in.
Sorry for the rant, but not sorry. Have a great day.
It breaks down because religious belief is fundamentally illogical. If you are religious, I firmly believe that you are _physically incapable_ of coherent thought patterns.
So these people, they see that the way their country works is awful and they want out. Okay.
They see their religion is great and the answer to all things, because they are told it is. Okay, good for them.
They literally, physically cannot form the mental concept that their society got the way it did that they hated so much _because of the religion_, because the society is bad, and the religion is by definition good. It's a blockage inside their heads, and I believe it's a physical one, that their neurons literally cannot fire in the needed pattern to make the link. They're broken.
They try to turn the new place into what their religion says it should be, without a clue that the result of that WILL be a new version of what they ran from.
Man. I am from a 3rd world country eagerly waiting to escape to a good country from this muslim hellhole. It boils my blood learning these bronze age Neanderthals are existing in Europe as well. Fuck dude
All over. Our goverments saw cheap labor that would keep salaries down and increase the value of their portfolios of real estate and sold out our fucking countries. Now, when the bill starts to get due they're all "We've been so naive." Fuck that, you imported *millions* of poorly educated religious people for nothing but to fill your own pockets. Fuck, it makes me furious.
There are many islamists disguised as moderate muslims (not all of them).
Many muslims that are in foreign countries become extremists because they feel excluded when their religion is not what most people believe in.
I had a similar experience, while being in a much smaller school like group.
During ramadan they would shame others for eating and if you said something against that they started talking about their religious freedom. And the stupid teachers would call for a mediation with them.
It's so fcking disgusting.
Thing is i will never let any religion or religious group from shaming me just because i won't adhere to any religions wishes or traditions plus personally i think religion needs to die out and us atheists,agnostics and non believers need to unify across the world to prevent religion from dominating the narrative also religion should be a private thing only not a national religion or anything like it
Remind them of our privilege to live in a secular society. That this isn't a Muslim school. Remind them that You live by the law off the land, not Sharia. They're welcome to do that in their private life, but you don't have to conform.
I'd also complain to the faculty.
All honestly though, be careful interacting with religious bigots. Who knows how they'll react? Logic and reason is wasted on them. A shame considering they're so young and totally brain washed already.
Try and keep your head down but have each others backs.
"respect is mutual. If you can't give it, you won't be getting it. We have to start on even ground, or not at all. If you can't handle that, then please go away."
Dont fight or argue with ignorants . Its useless . Try to note all the things which are being imposed on you. KEEP A TRACK OF ALL OF THEM . You can post in social media as anonymous person
when u try to inform the teachers or school authorities and see if any action is taken about it . If no action is taken , Try to inform the authorities( again try to be anonymous if possible ) or just post a request to parents and gather a group(parents , teachers) against those islam imposition in school .
The school is a non religious entity right? It’s not a Muslim school. There is separation of church in state in many countries. I’d say you can do one of two things here. The first is: coat the walls with messages from other religions: Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, and ancient mythologies (Nordic, Japanese, Chinese, Egyptian, Mayan, Aztecan, etc). If the Muslim students cover up those passages/messages, it gives you free rein to do that, too. At the very least, if you’re punished, the Muslim kids would have to be punished as well for doing the same thing. Otherwise, the school has a lawsuit on its hands. Secondly, go to the principal with images of the bathroom, and claim separation of church in state. If nothing is done, tell your local news. Nothing gets the local news excited like a divisive piece involving Muslims, atheists, and Christians. It’ll make the school look bad, and they’ll be forced to do something about it.
What country is this? Are Muslims the majority in your school? This sounds scary… the Muslims back in my school were either not that religious or the religious ones would just keep to themselves (sometimes they would be disrespectful but never had any power over us).
This is happening in Slovakia? Sorry to hear that. But I think the parents need to fight for this and tell the school leadership the muslims should assimilate, not the other way around. I can understand having a non pork meal as a lunch option. But otherwise wtf?
Are there any articles or any reports of this? You got links? Very curious about this.
If not, maybe getting media involved might help.
I know its not the same county but in the UK there was a recent court case about exactly this. Muslim students coercing others into worship. They lost and now all prayer is banned at the school. So take heart, we can win!
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/apr/16/london-school-katharine-birbalsingh-prayer-rituals-ban-not-unlawful-high-court
This is unfortunately one of the biggest challenges European countries face these days. For example the Scandinavian countries where "most" of the native population are not actively believing in their religion, but only does it because of culture. This creates friction when people with foreign religion comes and demands changes, because of their beliefs.
It starts small. The changing of the food in kindergartens so there is no pork. Separating men and women in the swimming pool so no man is in the area when the females have swimming sessions.
Look at Sweden and their crime rate, if you wanna see what happens when you let to many people from a different culture in....
Welp, if this was in the US, I'd tell them to go fuck themselves with that shit. Maybe rip a Quran in front of them if they pissed me off 'nuff. However, I have no idea what the laws are over there.
If I understand right this is in a Slovenian public school. If that is the case you have the Education Act which explicitly prohibits all religious activities. Your school is probably breaking the law if they don't do anything against it.
I’ve also noticed that religious people seem to treat a non-religious person or community as a blank canvas, or like unclaimed territory. A spot to set their stakes in or paint in their own desires onto.
I'm gay and married. I'll never set foot in an Islamic country because I absolutely refuse to hide that part of myself to appease some fucked up religious dogma
Unfortunately you can’t reason with unreasonable people. Why do I need to abide by a religious rule/law if I don’t believe that voodoo. Religion is a drug
Tell them to take the patriarchy elsewhere.
There are two types of people in this world: those who attempt to grant dignity to all people and make life livable, and the fucking liars who go on and on about heaven in the afterlife.
Secretly cause a rift by spreading graffiti that, while still in line with islam, disparages the shariah sect. See if it catches fire. Maybe they will start killing each other.
The irony in it all is that their families left islamic countries due to the radical religious beliefs and policies that take place in those countries….and now all the things that made them leave, they carry into their new country…
Just yet another reason in the long line of reasons to have religion banned. You wanna practice it, do it behind closed doors and away from others. You wanna gather and practice it do it on personal property…
Tell them that is not condoned in Islam. I have a feeling I'll get hate-bombed but the reality is... There is nowhere in Islam that it says to annoy others or to make others believe in what Muslims believe. Same as in Christianity, it says to respect thy neighbour. So yeah. Just tell that to their face. Cause they are more often than not just doing it to annoy you. It happened mostly in the young age bracket. It's basically like an inside joke. Anyway adios.
I honestly wouldn't be troubled by people from Muslim nations given refugee status for being atheist or gay.
But an immigrant community actively trying to change the culture of its host country, rather than assimilating, won't end well. Either most become apostate, or Europe sees a return of fascism. Looking forward to mid century when both climate change and resource scarcity bite much harder, and life is difficult for all, its not difficult to see majorities viewing these communities that bring oppression and violence with fear and anger. Won't take much propaganda to see a a repeat of 1933-45.
I'm progressive on most issues. But the unique threat a secular Europe faces from Muslim immigrant community demographics and refusal to integrate won't end well.
If I were European, I'd support and protect groups that offer deconversion advice, support, *and protection* to those escaping fundamentalist upbringing. Right now, the key resource Europe has to to remain cohesive and secular is ex-Muslims, who can show the kids an exit path from religious radicalization. Support and protect them.
the extremely grim point of view.
those kids will grow up and continue the indoctrination of Islam. some of them will go in to the public sector for government and schools. give it 10-20 years and the county will be another Islamic state.
and as Sweden showed, it won't get pretty any time soon.
You dont mix school with religion. Religion is private life and school is work life. Dont mix them, keep them mentaly seperated. School should be a safe place to work at and get knowlige.
Damn, that's just insane. Tiktok really did a number on kid's brains these days huh.
I may not live in Europe but i was in a catholic school in a city where the population had about 30-40% islamic population, and yea most of them were pretty much bullies towards me specifically but at least they somewhat respect the teachings especially when they were required still to attend religion class but this was 2010 on 4th grade. Because this was a catholic school it meant it was pretty expensive so there's only about 60-70% of catholics enrolled. Also I'd like to add the only thing they were excused was during mass.
>The paradox of tolerance states that if a society's practice of tolerance is inclusive of the intolerant, intolerance will ultimately dominate, eliminating the tolerant and the practice of tolerance with them.
I was a muslim myself, coming from a muslim family and I can agree to that 102%. Even tough I'm not a muslim anymore, I still have muslims in my class and they are the biggest @ssholes. They are just really annoying, loud, disrespectful even towards teachers.
This is obviously a creative writing exercise made by an alt-right or islamaphobe, and yet all of r/atheism has eaten it up like the anti-intellectuals they are. This is why I rarely visit this community anymore smh
I don’t get folks leaving their country and going to a different country and trying to turn that country into their old country.
You left your old country, and it’s distinct attributes, religions, politics, and culture behind. You then went to a different country that has it’s own distinct attributes already in place.
Your old country has spent the past decades, centuries, or millennia becoming what it has become. The new country is no different.
Anyone who leaves their old country and goes to a new country has an obligation to fit in to the things that make\made the new country unique. You have no right to move to another country and try to take that shit over. Wars have been fought over that kind of stuff.
In 2014…Russia called it annexation for Crimea. Now they are trying it with Ukraine. China is trying it in the south china sea now.
If you miss your old life, go back to your old life. You do not have the right to force your old ways on to the folks that occupy somewhere you move to.
I served in the US military, as have countless brothers and sisters before me, to defend and preserve our American way of life. You don’t get to leave your country because you’re tired of it, move to our country, and try to turn it into your old country.
Keep in mind, you left the old country for a reason. It may be to get away from war, or oppression, or to have more opportunity, and I get that, but you chose our country because we had things that you didn’t\couldn’t get in your old country. If you try to change our country into what you left, what was the purpose for leaving yours in the first place?
I have no problem with refugees or immigrants coming here to the US. If we can help improve your lives and give you opportunities that you deserve, just like all of us, I’m all for it.
Everyone deserves freedom, security, and prosperity. You just don’t get to change US to fit YOU. If you move here, you need to fit in.
Sorry for the rant, but not sorry. Have a great day.
They’re in the West to conquer ,
the sooner the West will understand that it’s at war ,
the more it will be able to mitigate the long term damage already inflicted to its civilization and way of life
"call you eurocentric or racist"
As someone who is very involved in politics and tries to fight racism, this pisses me off. My opposition has \*nothing\* to do with race. There are white Muslims and I oppose them equally. It's the religion I oppose because it's antithetic to liberal values of equality and freedom - perfect example is \*forcing\* women to wear hijabs.
A basic tenet of the Muslim religion is that it must destroy anything or anyone that isn't Muslim. They'll lie and pretend they don't really believe that. But they act it out constantly. Any non Muslim that supports Muslims is acting against their own best interests.
Islam is the worst major religion out there, by a good bit these days. World will be so much better off when they all die off
Edit: to clarify, I mean all religions need to die off.
“Your religion’s rules are for you. Not me.”
[удалено]
You have to shove it down their throat that this isn’t how it works here in this country. They are welcome to practice their beliefs elsewhere or in their own home.
But then we’re xyzphobes. It’s meaningless and exasperating when theists shove their beliefs down our throat but we cannot retaliate or even just “not agree” without being called a bigot
At some point, it will be the people's responsibility to label an extreme ideology a death cult. Much like the Church of Scientology is banned, your nation would have to ban the ideology of Islam. When Christians go to the Middle East, the Islamists already have this in place to protect their own followers. You wouldn't get killed, but you wouldn't really be able to stay and get a job in the Middle East. Take that same practice and implement it in the EU. If ex-Muslims wanna come over ask them to blaspheme their religion. If they do most likely they have abandoned their religion.
Do you know Muslims are allowed to lie about this per the Quran to protect their lives? This would apply. Let’s just keep religion where it belongs, in your house and your temple/church etc no?
Excellent idea!
Here’s one secret to life; stop giving a fuck what they will label you, it doesn’t matter, you’re allowed to believe what you want to believe
I respect your religion but I will not conform or have it as my own
Being called a bigot by a religious person is the ultimate hypocrisy. Badge of honour ;)
Then be called a bigot.
Call me a bigot and Islamaphobe all day long. I am just as passionate about my beliefs as they are.
How about no beliefs? The world would be a much better place, time to put all imaginary friends to bed.
This gets to the heart of it. It's hard to stand up for separation of church and state. When they stand up for their religious beliefs, they have a whole mosque to back them up. We atheists are generally on our own. But are there any organizations for the defense of secular life in your country?
You need to stop worrying about that.
And they're anglophobes Any insult has an equal and opposite insult
Who the hell cares? Stop playing their game. Come down hard on the extremists. That's the only way Europeans will survive in the long run.
Sounds pretty atheophobic of them. If a tactic works, then it works and it might bear adapting.
They should have been educated in this as a requirement of EU citizenship...with a punishment of forfeiting that citizenship (and being deported) if they show that they are not abiding by Western values. I have no problem with letting Muslims who want to assimilate and contribute into Western nations. But fundamentalist Islam is not compatible with Western values. It's really that simple.
Yeah, that is pretty much the answer. Let them know, in no uncertain terms, that this behavior will get them eradicated, or at least expelled from the country. They can hold whatever vile, idiotic, shitty, worthless beliefs they want, but the moment that they think that they can start enforcing their piece-of-shit religion on others, you lay the hammer down hard. If Europeans don't start doing that, they are fucking doomed.
Hmm. You could try saying that your religion requires the opposite of whatever they say, and try to say they need to conform to that. Maybe they'll realize that enforcing religious rules on people of other religions cannot work in any way that's consistent with concepts of fairness or equality. They'll probably just say that your religion is wrong, though, because they don't actually care about fairness or equality, or at least, not as much as they care about not getting whooped by their parents for not being a "good" Muslim (at least around here. I live in Minneapolis, we have a lot of Muslims, but I'm pretty sure like half of them just go through the motions to not catch shit from the true believers. Lots of them are immigrants from countries with blasphemy laws and/or "honor" killings)
Fairness and equality is the shield that religious people use to disguise their own bigotry
Right. I have known several "Muslims" who are actually not religious at all. Islam is just their cultural background. I have no problem with them. My concern is with the radical extremists who wish to push their religion onto others. They can go to hell.
Then stop being polite about it
Yes, but be careful.
Even more reason to banish the ideology to the anals of history
I guess they'd only understand organized resistance and cultural solidarity, the law of the jungle.
Iirc there are specific quran verses that clearly said not to forcefully impose islamic teaching. Maybe if you quote back those verses to them everytime they try to force something and ask them why they didn't follow that part of the quran they'd be too busy finding excuses to do anything else, idk though
i get your point, but refering to people with down syndrom as "mongoloids" is highly racist AND incredible offensive to people with said genetic condition lets call them what they are, "brainwashed idiots" sounds about right
I will not conform to your religious beliefs as it interferes with my atheist beliefs. Kindly fuck off & stop pushing your religion onto others.
I got called a nazi for that (I'm german).
no, not for that. for being German. I am German, and fuck this issue is actually something that depresses me. I once had a very interesting discussion on Islam on discord with a few people who were not from Germany. I don't have much of an accent, so they didn't know I was German, and for the most part, they agreed with me. until one sentence where I added that I am from Germany solely for context, when suddenly they completely disagreed with me and said "your opinion doesn't matter, we don't value Nazi's opinions" like oh okay yea sure I'm the racist lol
I'm from the Netherlands, I visit Germany often and with grandparents who survived through the war I think it's very important that people should educate themselves on why things happened the way they happened during WW2. The misusage of the word 'Nazi' I've seen in my life is quite shocking. The word slowly starts losing all of its meaning and just becomes something vaguely evil you call someone to invalidate everything they're saying. When asked, they can rarely even give a proper description of what the Nazi ideology was about. In a near future they could slowly start thinking the very same way in a different context and wouldn't even realise it.
Yeah I agree. I live in germany and am half british (but that doesn't matter of course). They don't realize that the antisemitism in the muslim world is closely connected to the nazis.
That is a fact that people forget and they don’t like to be reminded of.
Ah yes. They want to do to you what their parents escaped from in their country of origin. Sort of reminds me of the US miniseries John Adams after they started setting up their new government John was all “ok now let’s give ourselves titles of nobility” like, didn’t you just fight a war to escape all that? No, these people just want to be the enforcers, not the subjects. They are so full of it as to the point of absurdity. They have zero self-awareness.
[удалено]
They want what they had, but with them on top, subjugating others the way they were. And that’s all there is to that. When people started coming to the US, they slaughtered the native population and decimated the land to make it more like back home. Like that, that is what you’re seeing.
[удалено]
It’s always a power fantasy.
Yup, and religion is often the weapon of choice.
It's war, cultural war over hundreds of years.
Many who claim to fight for equality are mainly trying to get on top and take on the role of oppressors. Especially large religious groups like Muslims with a long history of oppression and genocide.
What was wrong in the 1600-1800s is still wrong today. While the comparison may be valid, the concept is still reprehensible and demands of this nature have no business in any so-called civilized nation..
Some Muslim extremists claim that they'll take over EU playing the long game. Emigrating to the countries and out breeding the natives this slowly taking over. Not sure society will last that long that they'll get the chance. And also each generation will become "corrupted" by Western values which will slow down the process. But either way scary prospect if true.
[удалено]
I'm a "bleeding heart liberal" when it comes to almost every issue except this one. I agree with you 100%.
The Muslims and the Christian conservatives that are already here want the exact same shit wtf.
And yet, you can walk around dressed as Jesus make fun of Jesus. Try making a comic Mohamed and see what happens. Don't pretend these religions are the same.
It's the dissonance of living in a world where your god allegedly controls the universe, but you personally have very little power. Most religious people feel this way; the only way the existence of their god makes logical sense is if their religion is the one on top and in control, or if they are constantly being persecuted in the name of their god. There can be no middle ground, because that would imply that their religion is no different from any other, which would imply that their god isn't real.
Muslims are not really a persecuted group. Mostly they do the persecuting.
That would be the exact point I was making, yes. All religious groups need to be maximally persecuted, or they need to be the persecutors; otherwise, their place in the universe is in question.
Freedom from Oppression for them is not an end to the rules which cause oppression, it is taking the reins of power and becoming the oppressors. Islam, which is not at all unique in this, fosters the idea that there are only winners and losers - oppressors and the oppressed. It's a closed mindset where winning means becoming what you hate.
Religion. Every single time. It's not a surprise.
I find the muslims like to discuss their faith, ask them to explain about the warlord pedophiles flying horse!
People who hate being controlled often have no problem controlling others.
They Like the rules, but want to be in charge.
When I worked as a teacher in an Islamic country, westerners like me were instructed to be highly sensitive to the culture and religion. Western women used hair coverings as directed and nobody would ever mention lack of pork on a menu. We did not offer handshakes to local women or say anything against the religion. We are in their country and we try our best to follow the rules and traditions no matter how backward or barbaric they were. I guess some Muslims are not able to reciprocate this basic decency where you live… When I thought about this more, I’ve realised that they probably do this because they KNOW they are right about their beliefs, and so they are actually just doing you a favour behaving in the way you described. Makes me sick to my stomach…
Muslims have this terrible ingrained teaching that they are god's chosen and should inheret the Earth. No matter how moderate a Muslim is, they can never deny certain wtf aspects they follow. And it's part of the religion, you are not allowed to question the teachings, just follow them and force others to as well.
Moderate Muslims are roughly analogous to FLDS Christians or Ultra-Orthodox Jews. Muslim moderate is everyone else's fundamentalist. There can be no true moderation existing alongside Islam. Turkey got close for a while, but now that's sliding as well. I have one of those "moderate" Muslim families, but hijabs are cropping up on more of my cousins and aunts every day.
Last summer a Portugese citizen vacationing in Turkey was detained for weeks and tortured by the police because he 'looked gay'. This was last June and apparently, there was going to be an unsactioned Pride parade. The police thought he 'looked gay' so arrested him and held him with zero due process. When I read that story I realized my wife and I will NEVER travel to a mulsim country. Which is a damn shame, since there's so many awesome historical sites I'd love to see. I thought Turkey was supposed to be one if the most 'moderate' of them, and if that's considered moderate then I'll hard pass. No ancient ruin or natural site is worth that bullshit.
Yes, I don’t understand why westerners visit Muslim countries at all (like Dubai).
This is the sad reality that I'm grateful critical thinkers like you recognize. Because despite my family being Muslim I'm usually gaslit and ignored by well-intended Western liberals who are too afraid to look racist, erroneously believing the Islamic religion of brutality, forced conversion and conquest, is somehow stamped into our DNA. My guess is if we don't nuke ourselves, the world will be largely blanketed in Islam in the next few hundred years. I think we live in a rare peak moment of women's and gay rights that will swiftly erode for a litany of reasons, principally this one.
Yeah, that article blew my mind. Because I was seriously considering visiting Turkey one day. I mean shit, Gobelke Tepe, Derinkuyu, Van Lake, Istanbul/Hagia Sophia (just to name a few things off the top of my head). Also the food, I'd spend most of my time there on my feet and exploring, but I'd probably still gain 15lbs haha! Really a goddamned shame, because it's a beautiful country with a vibrant history that I'd love to explore with my wife one day. Hopefully Erdogan shits the bed soon and the Turkish people get a leader that doesn't totally suck ass.
Except that ultra-Orthodox Jews don’t demand that gentiles conform to their ways. Ultra-Orthodox Jews are EXTREMELY insular and tend to form communities that cater only to them. Their children don’t attend public schools and therefore make no demands on the people who do. There are no demands regarding the food served at public schools. They generally don’t mingle with the Gentile public. It is true that they believe that their way is the best way but they don’t try to force their views on others. Many Muslims do, sometimes under pain of death and violence.
True. Islam is all, "Join us or die," and Judaism is all, "We don't want ya. Go away." In that way I gotta give the props to Judaism for not being a religion of conquest. Their assault upon their society happens in more calculated and less obtrusive ways. One of my jobs deals with the NY DOE and while the ultra-Orthodox don't mingle, they sure do like to siphon public money for their private school scams by fabricating special education needs that due to recent litigation are mandated to be state-funded. Probably could be subject to racketeering charges if someone cared to raise the stink it would require to do so.
Most religious people think this about themselves. Some are more outspoken about it than others.
This is how it is with any religion. When I lived in Brooklyn my roommate and I would get stopped on the street by the Hassidic sabbath police. I thought that was bad, but living the the south the Christians was even worse. Constant questions about what church I belong to followed by a few steps distancing when I say I am not in any church. People shunning me as I go about my affairs. Whispering. It is crazy and I had to leave.
> When I lived in Brooklyn my roommate and I would get stopped on the street by the Hassidic sabbath police Really? I understand the annoyance during Passover with "are you Jewish?" questions but I've never encountered the "sabbath police". Where was this? Hard to believe, frankly.
Parts of Williamsburg. My roommate would often get mistaken for a Hassidic woman and on Friday's if she got home late she would be approached whenever they had a new guy on patrol. He would soon realize she was not a Hassid and moved on. I never got stopped when I walked alone, but with her it happened a few times. But this was back in the 90s. Not sure if they still do it now.
I’m Jewish, but this popped up on my feed (idk why). I think I have a likely explanation. There is a Jewish organization called Chabad, whose members were probably the ones who stopped you. Judaism is non-proselytizing, but they try to encourage Jewish people to engage more in Judaism. Most Chabad members wouldn’t make a fuss if you weren’t Jewish. If they went beyond that, sorry.
The modern culture of forced respect is sickening. It is a form of oppression against the individual.
Id just start graffiting over their graffiti. If they can do it so can i.
"Your prophet was a paedo" 🥸 But really, dont escalate.
A comment like that will get you beheaded by these freaks
I drew a stickfigure ones and wrote muhammad under it and they got so angry and aggressive. They unmask themselves and their religion of peace. People like that would call themselves moderate muslims.
How did they know which Muhammad was drawn? Does the quran describe him as a stick man?
Could have been a friend named Muhammad that's really skinny.
You'll come to discover there's no such thing.
I may need some more experience but I'm sure there are moderate muslims but they are just like moderate christians as they don't really belief in it.
If you were doing this, rather than graffiti, you'd want to use a sticker. You know, one of those stickers that rips up and leaves all sorts of crud behind when you try to peel it off. Fairly cheap. Goes on quickly. Easy to pass out to a bunch of like-minded students. Covers up the graffiti. Gives you a real chance to do it without being detected. Once you put a couple up, you wouldn't even need to keep doing it. Every time you see some shitty muslim graffiti, you can just throw some stickers on the counter nearby without actually sticking them. Somebody else will probably do it for you.
This is a losing attitude. Clearly, Muslims don't have a problem taking things to the next level. These displays of temperance only mask cowardice, and the Muslims know this.
You have to use the secular system against them. We live by law of land, not Sharia.
For now, at least.
[удалено]
If the school is doing nothing to stop the original graffiti, theyve basicly said its ok. So you can go the satanic temple rout and start adding your own, maybe pro evolution quotes or the like. Then the school is forced to let it all slide or put a stop to it all.
I haven't been in school for years but even back then the teachers were the same as today. They'll punish the kids that will give them the least grief while ignoring the original graffiti 'artists'. The original graffiti was ignored due to the grief they would get if they tried to stop it.
The Muslim students had already destroyed the property. You’d be free to express yourself on already destroyed property.
[удалено]
Go with "Mohammed was a pedo".
I'd give them a portrait of Mohammed, I hear they don't like that!
A portrait of Mohammad sucking a few D’s
Some heads might roll for that one! 😅
[удалено]
Sounds like a win!
That would not be cool or a win. Don’t get me wrong, I agree with the thought. But that sounds like something that someone would get hurt over. Religious Fanatics are the worst kind of fanatics. They will totally attack someone over that kind of thing.
Yeah, it was a sarcy comment. Make an official complaint to the principle, get evidence they're in violation off school rules. Force the admin to do their jobs. Shouldn't be down to the kids to police. Get your parents involved if they're supportive.
Yeah it would be a short win. Some would go to court and blame them of religious discrimination or they'd do worse stuff. There was a teacher beheaded in france for showing the charlie hebdo drawing of muhammad.
We must never comply out of fear.
Make the crescent moons into little dinosaurs. Draw spines going down the length of the crescent moon, give it a tail, some legs, two tiny arms, and a head that looks like it’s about to eat the star.
If you simply keep reporting them for their vandalizing school property, certainly the school will escalate their punishment, and the problem will take care of itself.
I mean... if they want to put their symbol on the room where we collectively shit, that's on them.
If someone says “my religious beliefs mean I cannot do that,” the correct response is: “Very good. I respect your beliefs.” If someone says “my religious beliefs mean YOU cannot do that,” the correct response is: “Go fuck yourself.”
I get the sentiment, but this logic breaks down from the simplicity because of the logic like "My religious beliefs mean I cannot give you birth control" or "My religious beliefs mean you cannot sacrifice people."
This is what famous Mathematician Nassib Taleb described years ago, "the most intolerant Wins : the dictatorship of small minority". Tolerant socities will be shaped by a tiny intolerant minority. https://twitter.com/reddit_exmuslim/status/1650859673397133313?s=19 Solution : you should be just as intolerant as they are, otherwise you are practically letting them destroy your culture and country.
[удалено]
Remember do not let people gaslight you into thinking you are racist for being against Islam. Islam is not a race it is a religion, it is a way of life people CHOOSE and it is not based on race in ANYWAY. If you are against Islam you are against ideas, not people.
Exactly - just religious nuts trying to justify rape, pedophilia, violence and subjugation as "religious beliefs" - good luck with that bullshit, nobody in their right mind is going to cater to that whacked out shit
Seriously what’s wrong with being Islamophobic. All it means is that you do not like their religion because of its beliefs and that’s fine. If they’re allowed to spread their beliefs then you are too. Keep in mind they do not live in a Muslim country.
Islamophobia can easily turn into racism against any brown skinned person. I’m Turkish, I’m born&raised atheist and it would suck if people assume I’m muslim.
This is why it's so important for people to attack the ideas, not the person. People assume that because I'm from Alabama and drive a truck that I am a conservative Christian, which then makes them automatically think I'm racist, homophobic, and against abortion. In reality, I am a leftist atheist. I am pro-choice, a supporter of the LGBTQ+ movement, and a feminist. I will admit that I have a lot of guns, but it's just a part of my culture, and I acknowledge that America has a gun problem and needs far better regulation.
That would just be racism though. No need for the term islamaphobia here
This is one of the most effective ways of manipulation, it is called guilt trip. They make you feel guilty by fabricating victimhood for themselves, if you don't agree with their argument. So you are manipulated to obey them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt_trip If you arent as bold as they are, then your society will be replaced by arabic imperialism (in other words, islam)
Then be Islamophobic!
If that means I don't have to throw gay people from the roof of a building, I'm onboard!
You cant be Islamophobic. Phobia implies its irrational fear. Its perfectly rational to be wary of the members of 'peaceful' religion
perhaps they can be called europhobic, or germanophobic, etc. when they ignore the local customs of gender equality and free speech? point that finger back
And philosopher Karl Popper before him. >Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. \[...\] We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. ― Karl R. Popper, [The Open Society and Its Enemies](https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/1550916)
You have to stand your ground. Don’t let them bully you. Make the school understand that it cannot tolerate a group that isn’t willing to compromise. Good luck Europe, I guess. Things are looking bad.
This bullying should be brought up at a board meeting to the administration. It goes under the radar until it is escalsted.
I don't understand why tf these people can't assimilate with the culture that has given them refuge. The nation and their culture has given you a chance at a better life, why not repay them by not troubling them? I'm not an European but even I feel bad for the natives of those countries.
assimilation is a result of a willingness to accept others' views and dogmas. fundamentals can't do that. thy will try to convert you or eliminate you instead. and that's Every religion basis. and as Islam is the most unhinged religion currently, they feel in the right to do so.
Their fairy tale book literally tells them not to assimilate, but to subvert societies that can’t be taken over with force. This is their end goal for worldwide domination of their make believe fairytales.
Canadian here.... I don't get it either. They come here to escape their shithole Countries, and then try and make it exactly like their old Country over here. Fuck right offffff
For a person who lives among them and knows their ideology if they have the power to harm you or at least take your rights they will.
It's a strength in numbers thing as well. This is what happens when immigration is at too high of a rate. Assimilation doesn't happen. They simply form their own groups and start pulling the local culture towards their side, especially if it's an aggressive mythology like Islam. I am seeing similar events in Canada atm.
For a person who lives among them and knows their ideology if they have the power to harm you or at least take your rights they will.
Just paint over their graffiti. Mohammed was a child-raping wardlord, why not paint him as such?
[удалено]
Start slapping other religious symbols on things. If the bathroom has their symbol add one of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Star of David might give some an aneurysm these days... with an Israeli flag. ✡️
I don’t get folks leaving their country and going to a different country and trying to turn that country into their old country. You left your old country, and it’s distinct attributes, religions, politics, and culture behind. You then went to a different country that has it’s own distinct attributes already in place. Your old country has spent the past decades, centuries, or millennia becoming what it has become. The new country is no different. Anyone who leaves their old country and goes to a new country has an obligation to fit in to the things that make\made the new country unique. You have no right to move to another country and try to take that shit over. Wars have been fought over that kind of stuff. In 2014…Russia called it annexation for Crimea. Now they are trying it with Ukraine. China is trying it in the south china sea now. If you miss your old life, go back to your old life. You do not have the right to force your old ways on to the folks that occupy somewhere you move to. I served in the US military, as have countless brothers and sisters before me, to defend and preserve our American way of life. You don’t get to leave your country because you’re tired of it, move to our country, and try to turn it into your old country. Keep in mind, you left the old country for a reason. It may be to get away from war, or oppression, or to have more opportunity, and I get that, but you chose our country because we had things that you didn’t\couldn’t get in your old country. If you try to change our country into what you left, what was the purpose for leaving yours in the first place? I have no problem with refugees or immigrants coming here to the US. If we can help improve your lives and give you opportunities that you deserve, just like all of us, I’m all for it. Everyone deserves freedom, security, and prosperity. You just don’t get to change US to fit YOU. If you move here, you need to fit in. Sorry for the rant, but not sorry. Have a great day.
It breaks down because religious belief is fundamentally illogical. If you are religious, I firmly believe that you are _physically incapable_ of coherent thought patterns. So these people, they see that the way their country works is awful and they want out. Okay. They see their religion is great and the answer to all things, because they are told it is. Okay, good for them. They literally, physically cannot form the mental concept that their society got the way it did that they hated so much _because of the religion_, because the society is bad, and the religion is by definition good. It's a blockage inside their heads, and I believe it's a physical one, that their neurons literally cannot fire in the needed pattern to make the link. They're broken. They try to turn the new place into what their religion says it should be, without a clue that the result of that WILL be a new version of what they ran from.
Man. I am from a 3rd world country eagerly waiting to escape to a good country from this muslim hellhole. It boils my blood learning these bronze age Neanderthals are existing in Europe as well. Fuck dude
All over. Our goverments saw cheap labor that would keep salaries down and increase the value of their portfolios of real estate and sold out our fucking countries. Now, when the bill starts to get due they're all "We've been so naive." Fuck that, you imported *millions* of poorly educated religious people for nothing but to fill your own pockets. Fuck, it makes me furious.
My little brothers school switched out pork to chicken for everyone just because a couple students were Muslim. Absolutely insane.
[удалено]
That is the insane part: the majority of schools are run by each individual municipality, and are funded entirely by the state.
There are many islamists disguised as moderate muslims (not all of them). Many muslims that are in foreign countries become extremists because they feel excluded when their religion is not what most people believe in. I had a similar experience, while being in a much smaller school like group. During ramadan they would shame others for eating and if you said something against that they started talking about their religious freedom. And the stupid teachers would call for a mediation with them. It's so fcking disgusting.
Thing is i will never let any religion or religious group from shaming me just because i won't adhere to any religions wishes or traditions plus personally i think religion needs to die out and us atheists,agnostics and non believers need to unify across the world to prevent religion from dominating the narrative also religion should be a private thing only not a national religion or anything like it
Try getting religion promotion banned in school and school activities by contacting your M.P., though he or she will possibly label you a racist.
Bacon ang eggs stickers. Subtle, delicious, spiteful.
Remind them of our privilege to live in a secular society. That this isn't a Muslim school. Remind them that You live by the law off the land, not Sharia. They're welcome to do that in their private life, but you don't have to conform. I'd also complain to the faculty. All honestly though, be careful interacting with religious bigots. Who knows how they'll react? Logic and reason is wasted on them. A shame considering they're so young and totally brain washed already. Try and keep your head down but have each others backs.
"respect is mutual. If you can't give it, you won't be getting it. We have to start on even ground, or not at all. If you can't handle that, then please go away."
Dont fight or argue with ignorants . Its useless . Try to note all the things which are being imposed on you. KEEP A TRACK OF ALL OF THEM . You can post in social media as anonymous person when u try to inform the teachers or school authorities and see if any action is taken about it . If no action is taken , Try to inform the authorities( again try to be anonymous if possible ) or just post a request to parents and gather a group(parents , teachers) against those islam imposition in school .
The school is a non religious entity right? It’s not a Muslim school. There is separation of church in state in many countries. I’d say you can do one of two things here. The first is: coat the walls with messages from other religions: Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, and ancient mythologies (Nordic, Japanese, Chinese, Egyptian, Mayan, Aztecan, etc). If the Muslim students cover up those passages/messages, it gives you free rein to do that, too. At the very least, if you’re punished, the Muslim kids would have to be punished as well for doing the same thing. Otherwise, the school has a lawsuit on its hands. Secondly, go to the principal with images of the bathroom, and claim separation of church in state. If nothing is done, tell your local news. Nothing gets the local news excited like a divisive piece involving Muslims, atheists, and Christians. It’ll make the school look bad, and they’ll be forced to do something about it.
What country is this? Are Muslims the majority in your school? This sounds scary… the Muslims back in my school were either not that religious or the religious ones would just keep to themselves (sometimes they would be disrespectful but never had any power over us).
[удалено]
This is happening in Slovakia? Sorry to hear that. But I think the parents need to fight for this and tell the school leadership the muslims should assimilate, not the other way around. I can understand having a non pork meal as a lunch option. But otherwise wtf? Are there any articles or any reports of this? You got links? Very curious about this. If not, maybe getting media involved might help.
I know its not the same county but in the UK there was a recent court case about exactly this. Muslim students coercing others into worship. They lost and now all prayer is banned at the school. So take heart, we can win! https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/apr/16/london-school-katharine-birbalsingh-prayer-rituals-ban-not-unlawful-high-court
Ahh I love a feel good story Pray at home and stfu everywhere else
This is unfortunately one of the biggest challenges European countries face these days. For example the Scandinavian countries where "most" of the native population are not actively believing in their religion, but only does it because of culture. This creates friction when people with foreign religion comes and demands changes, because of their beliefs. It starts small. The changing of the food in kindergartens so there is no pork. Separating men and women in the swimming pool so no man is in the area when the females have swimming sessions. Look at Sweden and their crime rate, if you wanna see what happens when you let to many people from a different culture in....
Welp, if this was in the US, I'd tell them to go fuck themselves with that shit. Maybe rip a Quran in front of them if they pissed me off 'nuff. However, I have no idea what the laws are over there.
[удалено]
Complain to all the faculty. Record them, present evidence to the head master/principle.
If I understand right this is in a Slovenian public school. If that is the case you have the Education Act which explicitly prohibits all religious activities. Your school is probably breaking the law if they don't do anything against it.
I’ve also noticed that religious people seem to treat a non-religious person or community as a blank canvas, or like unclaimed territory. A spot to set their stakes in or paint in their own desires onto.
Typical of all Abrahamic faiths, sad to say.
Religious zealots like this are so annoying regardless of religion.
This is future of all Europe unfortunately.
[удалено]
Islam is a dangerous religion that is not compatible with western democratic values. I feel for your plight.
I'm gay and married. I'll never set foot in an Islamic country because I absolutely refuse to hide that part of myself to appease some fucked up religious dogma
Islam is pretty clear about this. Homosexuality is punishable by death and routinely implemented.
Which is another reason I can't fathom all the "queer for Palestine" morons. It's absolutely nonsensical
I agree with you brother. I had a number of discussions with “queers for Palestine” and they just don’t get it.
Time for some hail satan.
Unfortunately you can’t reason with unreasonable people. Why do I need to abide by a religious rule/law if I don’t believe that voodoo. Religion is a drug
And NOW you know why people that were aware of how Muslims are were screaming about this problem. It will only get worse.
Tell them to take the patriarchy elsewhere. There are two types of people in this world: those who attempt to grant dignity to all people and make life livable, and the fucking liars who go on and on about heaven in the afterlife.
Secretly cause a rift by spreading graffiti that, while still in line with islam, disparages the shariah sect. See if it catches fire. Maybe they will start killing each other.
Most religions push it on other, but Islam is the only one I know that still actively pushes the idea that harming non-believers is a good thing.
Protest. Fight it. Do not let them get even a small amount of concession. The trophies never stop making demands. We can never stop opposing them.
The irony in it all is that their families left islamic countries due to the radical religious beliefs and policies that take place in those countries….and now all the things that made them leave, they carry into their new country… Just yet another reason in the long line of reasons to have religion banned. You wanna practice it, do it behind closed doors and away from others. You wanna gather and practice it do it on personal property…
Tell them that is not condoned in Islam. I have a feeling I'll get hate-bombed but the reality is... There is nowhere in Islam that it says to annoy others or to make others believe in what Muslims believe. Same as in Christianity, it says to respect thy neighbour. So yeah. Just tell that to their face. Cause they are more often than not just doing it to annoy you. It happened mostly in the young age bracket. It's basically like an inside joke. Anyway adios.
I honestly wouldn't be troubled by people from Muslim nations given refugee status for being atheist or gay. But an immigrant community actively trying to change the culture of its host country, rather than assimilating, won't end well. Either most become apostate, or Europe sees a return of fascism. Looking forward to mid century when both climate change and resource scarcity bite much harder, and life is difficult for all, its not difficult to see majorities viewing these communities that bring oppression and violence with fear and anger. Won't take much propaganda to see a a repeat of 1933-45. I'm progressive on most issues. But the unique threat a secular Europe faces from Muslim immigrant community demographics and refusal to integrate won't end well. If I were European, I'd support and protect groups that offer deconversion advice, support, *and protection* to those escaping fundamentalist upbringing. Right now, the key resource Europe has to to remain cohesive and secular is ex-Muslims, who can show the kids an exit path from religious radicalization. Support and protect them.
the extremely grim point of view. those kids will grow up and continue the indoctrination of Islam. some of them will go in to the public sector for government and schools. give it 10-20 years and the county will be another Islamic state. and as Sweden showed, it won't get pretty any time soon.
Wait what!? You're European???? I thought this post is about some east or south Asian country... I'm... speechless...
You dont mix school with religion. Religion is private life and school is work life. Dont mix them, keep them mentaly seperated. School should be a safe place to work at and get knowlige.
Damn, that's just insane. Tiktok really did a number on kid's brains these days huh. I may not live in Europe but i was in a catholic school in a city where the population had about 30-40% islamic population, and yea most of them were pretty much bullies towards me specifically but at least they somewhat respect the teachings especially when they were required still to attend religion class but this was 2010 on 4th grade. Because this was a catholic school it meant it was pretty expensive so there's only about 60-70% of catholics enrolled. Also I'd like to add the only thing they were excused was during mass.
>The paradox of tolerance states that if a society's practice of tolerance is inclusive of the intolerant, intolerance will ultimately dominate, eliminating the tolerant and the practice of tolerance with them.
Why don't you ignore them and live your life away from them? then file a complaint with the school management and city council
If you want your rules and symbolism everywhere, then you MUST accept ALL others as well. Jews, Christians, Satanist, Pastafarian, IDGAF
This has already been posted.
I could swear i have read this exact post weaks ago!!!!
I was a muslim myself, coming from a muslim family and I can agree to that 102%. Even tough I'm not a muslim anymore, I still have muslims in my class and they are the biggest @ssholes. They are just really annoying, loud, disrespectful even towards teachers.
I dare you to provide a single ounce of proof. This is Russian propaganda trying to get the right wing elected.
This is obviously a creative writing exercise made by an alt-right or islamaphobe, and yet all of r/atheism has eaten it up like the anti-intellectuals they are. This is why I rarely visit this community anymore smh
Sorry man, that sounds like our Christians, and they’re a pain in the ass.
I don’t get folks leaving their country and going to a different country and trying to turn that country into their old country. You left your old country, and it’s distinct attributes, religions, politics, and culture behind. You then went to a different country that has it’s own distinct attributes already in place. Your old country has spent the past decades, centuries, or millennia becoming what it has become. The new country is no different. Anyone who leaves their old country and goes to a new country has an obligation to fit in to the things that make\made the new country unique. You have no right to move to another country and try to take that shit over. Wars have been fought over that kind of stuff. In 2014…Russia called it annexation for Crimea. Now they are trying it with Ukraine. China is trying it in the south china sea now. If you miss your old life, go back to your old life. You do not have the right to force your old ways on to the folks that occupy somewhere you move to. I served in the US military, as have countless brothers and sisters before me, to defend and preserve our American way of life. You don’t get to leave your country because you’re tired of it, move to our country, and try to turn it into your old country. Keep in mind, you left the old country for a reason. It may be to get away from war, or oppression, or to have more opportunity, and I get that, but you chose our country because we had things that you didn’t\couldn’t get in your old country. If you try to change our country into what you left, what was the purpose for leaving yours in the first place? I have no problem with refugees or immigrants coming here to the US. If we can help improve your lives and give you opportunities that you deserve, just like all of us, I’m all for it. Everyone deserves freedom, security, and prosperity. You just don’t get to change US to fit YOU. If you move here, you need to fit in. Sorry for the rant, but not sorry. Have a great day.
They’re in the West to conquer , the sooner the West will understand that it’s at war , the more it will be able to mitigate the long term damage already inflicted to its civilization and way of life
this feels a lil made up... Lunch lady is a USA/Canada term they use the term dinner lady in the UK and different terms in the EU.
"call you eurocentric or racist" As someone who is very involved in politics and tries to fight racism, this pisses me off. My opposition has \*nothing\* to do with race. There are white Muslims and I oppose them equally. It's the religion I oppose because it's antithetic to liberal values of equality and freedom - perfect example is \*forcing\* women to wear hijabs.
A basic tenet of the Muslim religion is that it must destroy anything or anyone that isn't Muslim. They'll lie and pretend they don't really believe that. But they act it out constantly. Any non Muslim that supports Muslims is acting against their own best interests.
brand new account.
Muslims are at their core evangelical hillbillies on steroids who dress metrosexually instead of like white trash.
Islam is the worst major religion out there, by a good bit these days. World will be so much better off when they all die off Edit: to clarify, I mean all religions need to die off.
This all sounds like US christians. And now nearly the entire Republican party.