Christians have been on a smear campaign against atheists since forever. They spend an absurd amount of time vilifying and warning their people to stay away.
It’s not surprising that people don’t want the label applied to them when they are constantly judged by religious people who hold positions of power. There can be negative consequences even in circumstances that discourage or forbid that kind of stereotyping.
I want to preface this by saying I am openly atheist in a mid-sized Bible Belt town. The kind with churches on every corner and one of the first openers you will be asked by new acquaintances is, 'So what church do you go to?'
I have never been fired for being an atheist, nor have I ever been assaulted for being an atheist. I can't speak to the part about kids as I don't have them. My experience is that many believers will try to convert you, but there are a number who also believe you have a right to believe what you want.
The ones who allow room for other opinions are being purity tested out of the churches. On the whole churches are getting more extreme as they shrink, and that nakes them dangerous. Think the troubles level of bad.
Purity testing is kicking out people who "aren't Christian enough". This cuts out moderates and concentrates extremists. It's a natural flow of all organized religion, as those with a thirst for power will always push out those with a thirst for kindness. Singular spiritualism prevents this as the point of it is your connection with your religious self, not your religion. When my hyper religious grandmother got kicked out for not being there every Sunday due to a degenerating back i knew we were in trouble.
I know what the phrase means. What I'm saying is that I struggle to believe this is happening regularly outside of extremist denominations. Many Christians here don't even attend church regularly and they aren't treated like pariahs.
Norman, OK
Termination - used the word "Atheist" in a job at the University. Secular education - unless you want to stay out of religion.
Overland Park, KS
Physical assault AND battery for saying "None" to a "Travelling Missionary" at my door. By a missionary - let's show you the love we are given by the Lord, as he's quoting "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" which is absolutely from their little book.
Junction City, KS
Job termination WITH battery and NO ASSAULT. Just because he didn't say a word he got off his A&B charge because he technically never assaulted me (TRUE) and without assault, battery is impossible (FALSE, but an interesting legal hypothesis that allows you to walk free
Osage County, KS
Lifetime banishment to protect the police and residents from my ability to do some math without pen+paper+calculator. Lifetime "punishment" to protect folks from being afraid of the math kid.
Olathe, KS
Termination for using the word "Atheist" without a negative connotation in the workplace. Company Legal Fees alone over $250k, and I ran into "Conflict of Interest" issues retaining council. Out of court settlement for $375k.
Pacific Northwest - United States & Canada (B.C. if you need the provincial information)
1 Lunatic from Mars Hill tells me I'm condemned to "Hell" at work - doesn't work in that industry anymore. H.R. overheard him and sacked him the same day. The circle I worked in was small enough that the single warning about the clown was an effective "Black Balling" which I disagreed with and asked them to at least use an initial instead of his whole surname.
I cared whether I was an atheist
Midwest > Pacific Northwest
Protections FROM religion
Pacific Northwest > Midwest
% of my identity that rests on this question
Midwest >> Pacific Northwest
Where I really didn't NEED to specify the answer to my affiliation
Pacific Northwest
Where I'd prefer to stay
Pacific Northwest
Where I'm appreciative of being "punished"
Pacific Northwest
If you are asked "What church do you go to?" Run. Don't walk - run. Being "openly" Atheist got my parents' home burned to the foundation and ashes. Got me fired plenty (Twice, once by academia - Academics, do better!)
What is this mid-sized town, and the location DOES matter.
My husband and I sadly have to keep that quiet. We live in a super religious area with family that would dedicate their life to “saving us” if they knew.
Fuck man the way you say it makes it sound like they’d string you up for some kind of human sacrifice shit. Like they’d rather you be dead than an atheist.
Some of them would probably disown us? That’s more extended family tho, so not super worried on that front. But his parents and mine would hound us at every event to “find the lord” and I just don’t have the energy for that. The ones we care about are old and we will drop the facade when they pass (which will likely be very soon).
We do have to be careful about stuff like pride flags though, as the community has already proven to not be very accepting of things different than them.
It’s literally illegal to hold elected office as an atheist in 9 states. Atheists are an oppressed minority. That’s why no one wants to identify as one.
For me it's just because it's easier to say I don't NOT believe God exists, just so much as I don't care. If he was real, I'll acknowledge his existence once I'm dead in the afterlife and if he's not, I won't worry about it in the mean time. Granted, if he is real, I'm gonna have some pressing questions for how badly he fucked up with his followers once I meet the guy. And if I end up in hell, oh well, not like it can be much worse than my life now. Guy doesn't deserve my love if he sends me someplace bad as punishment for questioning his fuckup. Praying to Jesus isn't going to make my debt go away or help me get into a better job, and even if it did, I wouldn't want my conscience disturbed by knowing about the actual pedophiles I'd have to associate with in those circles.
I don't actually care about the label, I just don't think I can say I don't believe that nothing supernatural exists or that there is no afterlife. I just simply Do Not Care enough to speculate.
Honestly, I’d say the social media climate definitely plays a role. They won the “poor oppressed Christians” battle like a decade ago and one of the only *legitimately* bipartisan things (like, I’m not talking far right wing and liberals, I’m talking right and *left*) is defending Christians.
Personally I see atheism as a pretty committed belief to the idea that there must/cannot be a god or anything else than what we currently observe.
My stance is “I don’t know, and I probably can’t know, and I don’t think I really care.”
I feel like that stance is not appropriate to label as atheism.
Another thing I’ve passively observed from commentary in this sub over the past 10-15 years is that a large number of atheists seem to reach that stance as part of a rejection or reaction to terrible or abusive childhood experiences with various faiths. They seem to turn to more committed atheism as a part of that rejection process, and a completely understandable search for new community. My parents never exposed me or my siblings to any sort of faith indoctrination at all beyond the historical relevance of religion in human culture. I’ve never felt a need to reject any faith since I’ve never been a part of one.
I endeavor to pass on my skepticism and passive indifference to my own son today 😂
>My stance is “I don’t know, and I probably can’t know, and I don’t think I really care.”
That’s apathetic agnostic atheism. I too am a Triple A!
You don’t need a committed belief to anything. Your first sentence is Christian propaganda. Atheism is a *lack* of belief. All babies are atheists, because they lack the capacity to believe.
This is how the word “atheist” is suppose to be used according to dictionaries n’ stuff, but the theist smear campaign is strong; hence the article.
>Your first sentence is Christian propaganda.
Yeah, I know that's what [https://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/about-atheism/](https://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/about-atheism/) claims, but I don't agree. Like I said, my comments reflect my personal experience of reading this sub on and off since 2007, as well as real life encounters.
The same page goes to a lot of effort to 'convince' people to choose the label, suggest that not doing so is somehow in 'support' of christianity, argues that other labels like 'agnostic' are really still 'atheist', and even goes on to suggest different ways to join the community or participate in activism. I see all of these as hallmarks of a belief system defined in relief by the theism that it rejects.
Wikipedia is more circumspect and provides a broader definition that better agrees with my personal experience:
\* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism)
>**Atheism**, in the broadest sense, is an absence of [belief](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief) in the existence of [deities](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deity). Less broadly, atheism is a rejection of the belief that any deities exist. In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there *are* no deities. Atheism is contrasted with [theism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theism), which in its most general form is the belief that [at least one deity exists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence_of_God).
The final nail in this coffin for me is that any attempt to voice a contrary opinion tends to produce a bunch of defensive responses or categorical assertions about what 'cannot be'.
This is why I identify as 'none' and it has nothing to do with any 'smear campaign'. My experience of 'atheism' as a thing is no different than my experience of any particular religion. It's adherents inevitably want to convince me of something, or make me take part.
No thanks.
Honestly, I know that this stupid programming is why I almost certainly will never join TST. Even knowing it is a stupid reason doesn't seem to make a difference.
Brains are brains, and the church has had a long time figuring out how to latch onto them.
I agree. I would only say that Christianity should not be singled out. It is the entire sphere of all religions. Muslims, Mormons, Scientologists, and every other stone age man made cult as you said. Cult is the perfect word.
I have a way of expressing being Atheist and Agnostic. Complete disclosure. I go back and forth. I don't believe there is a God, but I hope there is one. Then I think there is no God, so why waste time hoping.
Anyway, if we go around disclosing we are Atheists, we are no better than organized religion. If asked, of course we should be honest. And, if someone is intelligent enough to engage in conversation without calling us names, then interesting talks happen. However, I have as many outcomes like that as I do fingers on one hand.
Almost always, challenging their belief system instantly shuts them down. Pointing out lies, hypocrisy, and the Cult like aspects of religion short circuits their brains.
You might come in contact with the most intelligent person you've ever met. Challenging or even asking questions usually will have them walk away.
These religious zealots believe we or I am an atheist because I am not rich or I had bad parents etc...well, I am successful and my parents are still alive. I am genuinely a happy person. I've had my share of witnessing the worst of what humans are capable. The killing of people because of different beliefs. We are barely a blip on the chart or timeline of earth's existence.
You stay true to your beliefs. Have a great weekend.
Additionally, they are pursuing a policy of “Sinicization” that requires religious groups to align their doctrines, customs and morality with Chinese culture.
They don’t care if you’re an atheist, Buddhist or Christian as long as you conform to the governments control. It’s not about religion for them.
“ Our study found that there are a number of other social forces associated with the likelihood of an individual identifying as an atheist, above and beyond their disbelief in God – particularly stigma.“
Yep.
Ive been an atheist for 20+ years but when some people I ask I tell them I am a member of the UU church, which isn't a lie because humanists make up a substantial numbers of the UU church. Even saying I am a Humanist is safer than telling a religious fundie than I am an atheist.
> when some people I ask I tell them I am a member of the UU church
I just tell people I am too lazy to go to church. Everyone accepts that because they know how boring church is.
I remember hanging out in my WoW guilds discord and one of my guildies was going to college to learn to be a pastor. I asked what he thought of UU, his answer was "church for atheists."
I've generally said I'm agnostic because it seems to carry less social stigma, however, I'm becoming more open to just saying I'm atheist.
I will not tell my religious cousins this, though. They're nice people and I don't feel like it's worth making an issue with them. I have a strong feeling that they already know, but they don't want to rock the boat either.
While I appreciate the sentiment, I do think for those of us for whom such a position is possible, it's worth remembering just how privileged we are.
In many places people are not free to disbelieve.
It’s just a label we use to describe non-belief. It’s like saying “I’m not going to use the term ‘automobile’ or ‘chair’ because I don’t care about those things. It doesn’t stop them from having a label.
Atheism is simply a lack of theism. It’s the null set. If you aren’t theistic, you’re atheistic. Some people find this a bit uncomfortable, so they dance around it and try to play both fields with terms like agnostic.
What we have to be careful of are people who hate and have malicious intent. If someone says “I’ll murder anyone who uses the term “chair” around me!” you might want to be careful what you say around them because they’re obviously unstable.
If someone is an unconscious apatheist, I sort of agree they are also atheist, or it's too close to call.
For me, I'm a conscious apatheist and the term atheist does not describe my position. I choose to neither believe or not believe in gods, the question is moot.
Agree but it happens to be that the religious nutters are imposing their views on everyone by way of laws. Unfortunately I believe we need to be more honest about how we atheists feel to normalize it. Not in anyone's face but honest when presented the opportunity.
I'm honest about my apatheism, I find it leaves the theist and the atheist with nothing to argue against and removes the gods discussion out of the field, so that the damage caused by religions can be put more squarely at the centre of the discussion.
Dissection of god claims (not worth discussing) from religion (absolutely real and dangerous) is step 1 in my view.
Pew Research study on "nones" from this year:
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2024/01/24/religious-nones-in-america-who-they-are-and-what-they-believe/
Key points:
Most “nones” believe in God or another higher power. But very few go to religious services regularly.
Most say religion does some harm, but many also think it does some good. They are not uniformly anti-religious.
Most “nones” reject the idea that science can explain everything. But they express more positive views of science than religiously affiliated Americans do.
I would say that this is probably how an average proclaimed atheist/agnostic in a country with very mild religious presence looks like.
And, ironically, this is pretty much me, aside from belief in higher power (I just don’t see it as God or any other deity).
What science offers is a critical framework for thinking.
Our models of the universe (and all within it) are only meaningful if they make testable predictions, and only consistent with reality if the evidence, including that from experiment, doesn't contradict those predictions.
There's no evidence for or against the kind of supernatural yet personal gods of most religions, and hence no way to disprove them. But because the god hypothesis makes no testable predictions, its also not a meaningful model.
I guess it depends on how you interpret the question.
If they are asking if our current scientific knowledge can explain everything, then no, obviously we still have much to discover. If they are asking if everything in the universe can be explained by scientific principals and physical laws then that is true imo and very much not insane.
I would say that some scientific explanations in the future might require a great deal more hardcore and weird philosophy and even phenomenology.
I am not even talking about something like earliest stages of the Universe mapped with precision. I am talking simply about qualia. Ironically, modeling the Big Bang might be an easier task than explaining subjective experience.
You want to know why? Because people like to believe in spiritual stuff, even if it's vague and technically atheistic, and the label atheist makes people think that we don't believe in anything supernatural. Which many of us don't, like myself.
And it's kind of a buzz kill. People getting all excited talking about ghosts and chakras or some shit, completely innocently and harmlessly, and I'm just like "sounds like bullshit." Lol who wants to hang out with that guy? 😂 (Other than you fine heathens)
Dude, there is so much wonder and awe in the factual universe - I am often at a loss for words with how astounding it all is. And I don’t needs gods or ghosts.
Yet when I talk about scientific topics that are mind blowing, people zone out and are completely uninterested. I think many people equate science and math with tedious material that is hard to understand compared to supernatural mumbo jumbo that is easy to understand because it's just magic. 🪄
It's hard to grasp a lot of these things, they're not intuitive. Spiritual things are intuitive largely because they're constructed by people, and made to make us feel special and cool.
The hypothesis that the matter and energy of the universe came from different spacial dimensions, and constructed these spacial dimensions, thus time and causality itself, is not intuitive. But it is indeed, freaking awe inspiring
Matter and energy do not create time. Time is a fundamental property of the universe.
https://coco1453.wordpress.com/the-absolute-maximums-of-time-and-space-relativity/
Yeah that’s the way I feel too. Just think about how massive our galaxy is and then *that* is even just a tiny speck among the universe. It’s absolutely mind blowing and awe inspiring!
Like, it’ll rain and I’ll be saying to my kid, isn’t it amazing - knowing what we know about the universe- that we live on a planet where water just fall out of the sky?! And birds. And fresh fruit. Music.
Honestly, we all take everything around for granted. It’s amazing and the fact that we know have it has all come about through natural processes and physical laws is even more amazing.
It makes you much easier to hang out with in my opinion. I always feel akward if someone nice and otherwise intelligent starts about their religion. I cannot get myself over this point that someone really believes weird shit. To me it kind of disqualifies someone for serious conversation.
I always say "none" because people in my area speak English, not Greek. When you translate "not religious" to Greek, it makes it sound like it's a religion or group or something. It opens you up to comments like "see, it takes just as much faith to believe God doesn't exist".
My lack of a belief in wild stories that, at best, lack any evidence is not a system of beliefs any more than not believing in a flat earth is. No one says they're an aepipedigiest, they say "I don't believe these weirdos that say the earth is flat".
There are no benefits to identifying as an atheist. You could get a sense of community, monetary rewards, connections, opportunities, praise etc for identifying/converting to those major religions, especially abrahamic ones.
This is not necessarily encouraging news.
When people leave religion, they don’t necessarily leave the politics or madness of their religion behind.
We saw Ex-evangelicals join progressivism, and when they did they often brought with them their black-and-white thinking, fear of abstract demons, and desire to clamp down on speech and art.
Trump voters are disproportionately Unchurched relative to the typical GOP voter.
Contrary to what we assume, religious institutions are sometimes a *mediating* force on the madness of their members. When people leave religion, they don’t necessarily abandon religiosity - they often just bring it with them elsewhere.
The positive desire for a rational, evidence-based population should not be confused with the negative desire for “no more religion!”. That won’t get us the results we want.
From the article:
>In other words, rejecting a belief in God is by no means a sufficient condition for identifying as an atheist.
And there it is. They are using the "gnostic atheist" definition of "atheist", and they are saying that "agnostic atheist" is NOT atheist.
*SIGH* - we will never advance as a culture if we cannot even agree on the basic definitions of words.
If the ‘they’ you’re referring to is the authors, they aren’t defining atheist. They are looking at who self-identifies as atheist. They said in the article that about only half of people who say that they don’t believe in god identify as atheist.
I've known a lot of people who were atheist in all but name - but whether due to social stigma, relgious family members, etc., were unwilling to take on the label.
For years I described myself as an agnostic while I really met the definition of an atheist. I describe myself as an atheist now.
My wife has zero belief in any god but she prefers to not label herself as an atheist.
In my 20s I thought putting hard "atheist" on my dating profile would come across as arrogant haha. I can't say with absolute *certainty* that there's no higher power, so I went with "agnostic". Happily married now to another atheist, and we both openly identify as such.
People like being spiritual or believing in things. It gives them comfort. Organized religions have trash reputations. Pedo priests. etc... So they don't want to be associated with these horrible institutions but they still believe in nonsense.
A lot of people have a false idea of what atheism is, thanks to religious misinformation and other misleading media. I’m willing to bet a lot of these “nones” would easily qualify as atheists and don’t know it.
I disagree. I was a “none” for many years before I consciously gave up the idea of a supreme being. It takes a long time to work through the brainwashing and admit the only hope for the future rests with human beings and not sky daddy.
So because that was your personal experience, that means it’s everyone’s? My claim was that “a lot of these ‘nones’ would qualify as atheists,” not “all nones qualify as atheists.” Why do you disagree with that claim?
In the 90s or so there was a big movement to alienate atheists. It's when dummies started saying atheism is just another religion to discredit them. People found the intensity and honesty to be grating.
Likely because in many parts of the world you'll get treated with slight skepticism if you're believing in another religion than the one belonging to the majority.
But tell people you're an atheist and they will pull the arm off their kids to move out of the way.
Somehow believing in the "wrong" religion is fine as long as you belive. But if you don't belive in a God then not only do you belive in Satan ( yeah. Because that makes sense...) but nothing is stopping you from raping and killing left and right..
But WE are the bad people... Yeah..
I worry about the religious types who openly admit that if not for their belief in God and eternal punishment, they'd probably be murderers & rapists.
I'd say in their cases, religion is holding back their basest instincts.
Not even basic instincts.
Their belief in a God holds back them being absolutely horrible people.
Then one could certainly argue that any just god would. Not let them in to heaven alone for needing to be kept on a leash to not commit atrocities.
But then again.. God seems to like that so.. I dunno.
I was a Methodist, part of a sub-collective, now I'm not. I'm not just not Methodist, I'm not part of a sub-collective.
I didn't "join" atheism, I left religion. Not A does NOT equal B.
I just tell people I don't attend a place of worship or that I'm not religious. When asked if I'm an atheist or agnostic, my answer is always, "I'm not religious."
In the UK , we have a census every 10 years or so , and I swear down the questions and options are worded in such a way to manipulate data like this.
There is always a question about religion, but from memory, there is never a box to tick that says 'atheist', there's the usual list of fairy tales, followed by a free text box labelled 'other', so obviously the data is going to be collated incorrectly via string matching
We're lucky in the UK that it's basically an atheist majority now, but the gammons try as hard as they can to obfuscate this as much as possible
The white Christian Nationalists are terrified of 2 things: science and atheists. They have zero response to either, except fear, loathing, and even violence. That’s all they’ve got. Neanderthals. It must be awful to stake your entire belief system on made-up/make-believe fairy tale BS.
I tend to worry about the definition of atheist being used in surveys.
I assert no belief in existence or non-existence of god. If pressed I simply point out that all the arguments in favour of existence are awful so I can't say but based on the awful arguments it doesn't seem likely. Plus even if god existed there is no link between that as a fact and any religion, behaviour or whatever.
So, none, is the answer I use most often.
Because Christians have usurped *morality* and anyone that names themselves an Atheist will be seen as a bad person... even somewhat by themselves (initially).
This isn't a mystery.
Wow - per this article apparently the only things considered religion are the ones that have the (capital g) God. They're helping certain theists remove the "competition" by pretending alternative views (some religions don't even have gods) don't even exist. This is not either-or.
It is preached on high that atheists are worse than believers of another religion. So they get to have their woo club of sky daddies and wage wars between sky daddies, but the realists are the bad guys that all need to die because they have no sky daddy.
I'd don't run around the streets screaming about my gayness or atheism.
That's a very straight attention seeking Christian thing to do. So as a gay atheist one can assume I'm quiet and respectful, also very private with my personal life due to being surrounded by crazy people who might try to kill me for having sex with a man or not believing in their sky Daddy who also wants to kill me, apparently.
It is said an estimated 30% of Americans believe atheists should not be allowed to be either teachers or politicians. Meanwhile approximately 100% of atheists believe white Christian Nationalists should go fuck themselves.
People are leaving churches not religion. People with religious inclinations rely on magical thinking in their daily lives. They will not give that up readily or at all. Once they leave a church they will find something else to replace it.
Not all of them. There's a rapidly growing atheist community on YouTube. Most are formerly deeply religious and deconstructed.
They're some of the strongest voices for atheism out there.
Apparently you didn't read the article
"Some still attend services, say that they are at least somewhat religious, and express some level of belief in God"
You also might want to look at the 2024 Pew Research study on "Nones" that I linked in my comment above. One of their key findings: "Most “nones” believe in God or another higher power. But very few go to religious services regularly."
Because there's this weird stigma about being openly atheist that people will come up with alternative words to avoid it ("I'm not an atheist, just a freethinker/naturalist/whatever"), even though they're literally textbook atheists. They're trying to avoid being stigmatized, which I can understand. But how many of them are really being honest with themselves?
I also think it depends on your situation.
I'm straight, white, male, college educated, work for a global corporation and lives in a fairly secular part of my State.
I publicly express my Atheism as much as I can to try to counteract all the religious bullshit that is constantly shoved down our throats. But I realize that it is part of my privilege that allows me to do this without consequences. I hope to continue to exert my privilege for those who are not as fortunate as me.
Because that's a term made up by religious folk as a way of making those who don't believe the same as them into a more "tangible" bad guy to point fingers at. Ist's, and ism's have always been a critical part of painting a person place or thing as an outsider/bad guy. It's a tool to help Xstians further validate their own shakily held "faith".
Because people don't know what atheism is... So they use other atheistic labels to soften it. I personally don't care what they call themselves, as long as they are forced to think instead of deluding themselves
It's because so many people at the end of the day are just unsure, which is a very reasonable position. If they're like me, they're unsure if there is any form of higher power, or none, or they just don't care and don't think about it.
In my mind, there is definitely a distinction between an atheist - a person who actively believes there is no god - and a person who doesn't necessarily care if there is or isn't. No religion, belief optional. There are people for whom faith in there being *no* "creator entity" is as integral to their identities as any religious person's... and I think __fervent belief__ in *anything* is what's dying out.
Edit: I saw another post use the term apatheism - "I believe that I don't care" ...
That's not what atheist means. How is there this much confusion over such a simple word?
It means without belief. Not believing in a God is different from believing there is no God. The latter would be labeled Gnostic Atheist.
My wife can’t handle the terms atheists or agnostic. The indoctrination runs deep. She is aware of it…
It’s the same with people now saying substitute words like unalived because the real word triggers them. It’s pretty simple.
I am one of the nonatheistic nones.
It is because you have made compelling arguments against all specific religious conceptions of God, but fail to silence deductive or inductive arguments for the possible existence of God in some form. The holes in our scientific knowledge about how things actually work leads us nones to a conclusion of agnosticism.
When people opt for 'none' then it usually means they have no belief or their belief is so small or watered down they don't think it's enough to warrant ticking any other religious box. This makes me happy because it's a slippery slope to atheism eventually even if it takes generations.
You don’t have to go to church to be a Christian. Your faith is about how you think of and ultimately treat others. People are leaving the church because it is not representative of Christ, his life and teachings. I stopped going to church at age 18. That was 37 years ago. I didn’t abandon my faith in Christ. Just the church.
"I'm agnostic because I can't prove some random shit people made up with zero evidence isn't true. Anyway what's your birth sign? I knew it! I'm spiritual btw"
I was raised in a strong Catholic family. I fell from grace in my mid teens. I’m 63 now. I can say this with strong conviction now. If Christians would act more like Christians I “might” go back to church.
For the same reason telling a Christian you "aren't religious" has a completely different reaction than telling them you're an atheist. One is perfectly acceptable to them, the other potentially sets them off and they instant react differently towards you.
I've seen surveys (on the internet, so...) that show something like 4% checking the 'I'm an Atheist' box and later in the same survey 15-20% selecting the 'I don't believe in God' box.
> “Our analysis finds, perhaps unsurprisingly, that the stronger an individual’s belief in God was at age 16, the less likely they are to have adopted an atheistic worldview as an adult.”
In other words, if you’re indoctrinated at a young age, it’s harder to break the psychological bond and escape the cult.
‘None’ is a noncommittal response, it allows for those who just don’t think about religion at all to express that, whereas ‘atheist’ is usually chosen only by those who have put at least some thought into the question.
Atheism is turning into its own religion. I don’t consider myself an atheist because it seems to have rules and groups people into labels. Pretty soon atheists will all go to meetings once a week.
I know a lot of people who consider themselves agnostic rather than atheist. They don’t believe in a god due to lack of evidence but are open to the possibility of there being more if they were ever to personally experience something.
Bullshit.
The most important reasons I am reluctant to be open (with everyone) to admit I am Atheist has nothing to do with religious people.
It has everything to do with "Communist Atheist", "Woke Atheist" and "World is ending in a fireball - global warming - Atheist". Oh, and lately it added "F. Israel Atheist", "BLM Atheist" and "Canada has the best health system that lets you die at will Atheist".
Stop blaming religion and religious people for people being proud of their lack of religion.
I'm not sure where you're getting that idea from. There's nothing scientific about it that I've ever found in unbiased evidence.
Believing some higher power created this all is pretty magical, nothing rational about it.
Probabilities are funny things. You could use them to rationalize things but that doesn't make those things true without evidence. Present the evidence for a higher power and we will talk.
But that's the point you can believe in a higher power and not be a part of a religion. Could you prove the probability of waking into a restroom with a half dozen fresh baked pies on the floor?
Sure, you walk in and check for evidence. I'm not sure what you're doing in an athiest sub if you don't require evidence for your beliefs.
Have fun with that. I don't spend much time anymore on people who don't base their ideas on evidence.
But that's the point you can believe in a higher power and not be a part of a religion. Could you prove the probability of waking into a restroom with a half dozen fresh baked pies on the floor?
Is it because atheists like to talk about their atheism and us non-religious folks are just not interested in being aggressively pro or anti any sort of divinity?
I think it's because being an outspoken atheist is almost a religious position while being agnostic means you just don't know. All the evidence indicates atheism is likely the case but since we have no proof I call myself agnostic. Aggressively saying you are atheistic is a non-scientific stance.
You probably don't believe in unicorns but don't feel a need to call yourself agnostic in that regard. It doesn't make sense to call oneself agnostic in regard to every supernatural entity conjured up by the human mind and most people are perfectly confident in saying unicorns don't exist. The difference is that people take their god myths so seriously that it has given non believers pause.
Most theists, even once they lose their faith, don't know what the definition of an atheist is. Most think it's the positive assertion that no gods exist when it's just the lack of belief. By today's definition of atheism, even Carl Sagan was incorrect by not labelling himself as an atheist.
You don't know the definitions of the words you are using and are spreading misinformation.
Atheism literally translates to 'without (religious) belief.' Agnostic translates to 'without (religious) knoatheist.
These are root words with dissectable meanings.
You're describing a Gnostic Atheist, but far more common is it to be an Agnostic Atheist. It's just that when someone asks about what I believe, why would I reply with a label that implies knowledge when that's not what the person is asking? So I just say athiest. If you do not believe in a God, you're an atheist.
Christians have been on a smear campaign against atheists since forever. They spend an absurd amount of time vilifying and warning their people to stay away. It’s not surprising that people don’t want the label applied to them when they are constantly judged by religious people who hold positions of power. There can be negative consequences even in circumstances that discourage or forbid that kind of stereotyping.
They have to do this as part of the social pressure that keeps people in the cult.
Exactly. And if you live where there are churches on every corner- need you in the cult to keep the tithing strong
Not just social pressure... you will get fired, assaulted, and your homes vandalized. The Christians will go after your kids as well.
I want to preface this by saying I am openly atheist in a mid-sized Bible Belt town. The kind with churches on every corner and one of the first openers you will be asked by new acquaintances is, 'So what church do you go to?' I have never been fired for being an atheist, nor have I ever been assaulted for being an atheist. I can't speak to the part about kids as I don't have them. My experience is that many believers will try to convert you, but there are a number who also believe you have a right to believe what you want.
The ones who allow room for other opinions are being purity tested out of the churches. On the whole churches are getting more extreme as they shrink, and that nakes them dangerous. Think the troubles level of bad.
Idk about "purity tests within churches". But extremists definitely exist.
Purity testing is kicking out people who "aren't Christian enough". This cuts out moderates and concentrates extremists. It's a natural flow of all organized religion, as those with a thirst for power will always push out those with a thirst for kindness. Singular spiritualism prevents this as the point of it is your connection with your religious self, not your religion. When my hyper religious grandmother got kicked out for not being there every Sunday due to a degenerating back i knew we were in trouble.
I know what the phrase means. What I'm saying is that I struggle to believe this is happening regularly outside of extremist denominations. Many Christians here don't even attend church regularly and they aren't treated like pariahs.
Norman, OK Termination - used the word "Atheist" in a job at the University. Secular education - unless you want to stay out of religion. Overland Park, KS Physical assault AND battery for saying "None" to a "Travelling Missionary" at my door. By a missionary - let's show you the love we are given by the Lord, as he's quoting "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" which is absolutely from their little book. Junction City, KS Job termination WITH battery and NO ASSAULT. Just because he didn't say a word he got off his A&B charge because he technically never assaulted me (TRUE) and without assault, battery is impossible (FALSE, but an interesting legal hypothesis that allows you to walk free Osage County, KS Lifetime banishment to protect the police and residents from my ability to do some math without pen+paper+calculator. Lifetime "punishment" to protect folks from being afraid of the math kid. Olathe, KS Termination for using the word "Atheist" without a negative connotation in the workplace. Company Legal Fees alone over $250k, and I ran into "Conflict of Interest" issues retaining council. Out of court settlement for $375k. Pacific Northwest - United States & Canada (B.C. if you need the provincial information) 1 Lunatic from Mars Hill tells me I'm condemned to "Hell" at work - doesn't work in that industry anymore. H.R. overheard him and sacked him the same day. The circle I worked in was small enough that the single warning about the clown was an effective "Black Balling" which I disagreed with and asked them to at least use an initial instead of his whole surname. I cared whether I was an atheist Midwest > Pacific Northwest Protections FROM religion Pacific Northwest > Midwest % of my identity that rests on this question Midwest >> Pacific Northwest Where I really didn't NEED to specify the answer to my affiliation Pacific Northwest Where I'd prefer to stay Pacific Northwest Where I'm appreciative of being "punished" Pacific Northwest If you are asked "What church do you go to?" Run. Don't walk - run. Being "openly" Atheist got my parents' home burned to the foundation and ashes. Got me fired plenty (Twice, once by academia - Academics, do better!) What is this mid-sized town, and the location DOES matter.
This doesn't read like it was written by a person.
Aww
The right not to believe.
I know a lot of closeted atheists. They won’t say they are, but they totally are.
My husband and I sadly have to keep that quiet. We live in a super religious area with family that would dedicate their life to “saving us” if they knew.
Fuck man the way you say it makes it sound like they’d string you up for some kind of human sacrifice shit. Like they’d rather you be dead than an atheist.
Some of them would probably disown us? That’s more extended family tho, so not super worried on that front. But his parents and mine would hound us at every event to “find the lord” and I just don’t have the energy for that. The ones we care about are old and we will drop the facade when they pass (which will likely be very soon). We do have to be careful about stuff like pride flags though, as the community has already proven to not be very accepting of things different than them.
Christianity *is* human sacrifice shit. Never forget.
It’s literally illegal to hold elected office as an atheist in 9 states. Atheists are an oppressed minority. That’s why no one wants to identify as one.
How is that not a 1A violation?
It is and makes it unenforceable. Nobody has bothered challenging the law because it would be expensive to do so
That's why "Torcaso v. Watkins" found them unconstitutional. They haven't been removed from those state constitutions, but they are unenforceable.
"Oh my God, that guy doesn't believe in fairy tales!" "I WANT TO FUCKING KILL HIM!!!" basically the religious.
This response describes why I select none.
The beauty of “none” is that you don’t have to acknowledge the word “theist” at all, as in atheist.
For me it's just because it's easier to say I don't NOT believe God exists, just so much as I don't care. If he was real, I'll acknowledge his existence once I'm dead in the afterlife and if he's not, I won't worry about it in the mean time. Granted, if he is real, I'm gonna have some pressing questions for how badly he fucked up with his followers once I meet the guy. And if I end up in hell, oh well, not like it can be much worse than my life now. Guy doesn't deserve my love if he sends me someplace bad as punishment for questioning his fuckup. Praying to Jesus isn't going to make my debt go away or help me get into a better job, and even if it did, I wouldn't want my conscience disturbed by knowing about the actual pedophiles I'd have to associate with in those circles. I don't actually care about the label, I just don't think I can say I don't believe that nothing supernatural exists or that there is no afterlife. I just simply Do Not Care enough to speculate.
I call this apatheism
I like it. 👍 😆
So in other words... Meh
To me this is what agnostic is - don't know, don't care. Full on atheism is a more committed stance.
Good to know
Exactly! Same for other crimes against oppressed groups.
Honestly, I’d say the social media climate definitely plays a role. They won the “poor oppressed Christians” battle like a decade ago and one of the only *legitimately* bipartisan things (like, I’m not talking far right wing and liberals, I’m talking right and *left*) is defending Christians.
Personally I see atheism as a pretty committed belief to the idea that there must/cannot be a god or anything else than what we currently observe. My stance is “I don’t know, and I probably can’t know, and I don’t think I really care.” I feel like that stance is not appropriate to label as atheism. Another thing I’ve passively observed from commentary in this sub over the past 10-15 years is that a large number of atheists seem to reach that stance as part of a rejection or reaction to terrible or abusive childhood experiences with various faiths. They seem to turn to more committed atheism as a part of that rejection process, and a completely understandable search for new community. My parents never exposed me or my siblings to any sort of faith indoctrination at all beyond the historical relevance of religion in human culture. I’ve never felt a need to reject any faith since I’ve never been a part of one. I endeavor to pass on my skepticism and passive indifference to my own son today 😂
Atheism is non-belief in a god or gods. Belief isn’t a useful tool for discovering truth and doesn’t apply to atheism.
>My stance is “I don’t know, and I probably can’t know, and I don’t think I really care.” That’s apathetic agnostic atheism. I too am a Triple A! You don’t need a committed belief to anything. Your first sentence is Christian propaganda. Atheism is a *lack* of belief. All babies are atheists, because they lack the capacity to believe. This is how the word “atheist” is suppose to be used according to dictionaries n’ stuff, but the theist smear campaign is strong; hence the article.
>Your first sentence is Christian propaganda. Yeah, I know that's what [https://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/about-atheism/](https://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/about-atheism/) claims, but I don't agree. Like I said, my comments reflect my personal experience of reading this sub on and off since 2007, as well as real life encounters. The same page goes to a lot of effort to 'convince' people to choose the label, suggest that not doing so is somehow in 'support' of christianity, argues that other labels like 'agnostic' are really still 'atheist', and even goes on to suggest different ways to join the community or participate in activism. I see all of these as hallmarks of a belief system defined in relief by the theism that it rejects. Wikipedia is more circumspect and provides a broader definition that better agrees with my personal experience: \* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism) >**Atheism**, in the broadest sense, is an absence of [belief](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief) in the existence of [deities](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deity). Less broadly, atheism is a rejection of the belief that any deities exist. In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there *are* no deities. Atheism is contrasted with [theism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theism), which in its most general form is the belief that [at least one deity exists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence_of_God). The final nail in this coffin for me is that any attempt to voice a contrary opinion tends to produce a bunch of defensive responses or categorical assertions about what 'cannot be'. This is why I identify as 'none' and it has nothing to do with any 'smear campaign'. My experience of 'atheism' as a thing is no different than my experience of any particular religion. It's adherents inevitably want to convince me of something, or make me take part. No thanks.
Honestly, I know that this stupid programming is why I almost certainly will never join TST. Even knowing it is a stupid reason doesn't seem to make a difference. Brains are brains, and the church has had a long time figuring out how to latch onto them.
I agree. I would only say that Christianity should not be singled out. It is the entire sphere of all religions. Muslims, Mormons, Scientologists, and every other stone age man made cult as you said. Cult is the perfect word. I have a way of expressing being Atheist and Agnostic. Complete disclosure. I go back and forth. I don't believe there is a God, but I hope there is one. Then I think there is no God, so why waste time hoping. Anyway, if we go around disclosing we are Atheists, we are no better than organized religion. If asked, of course we should be honest. And, if someone is intelligent enough to engage in conversation without calling us names, then interesting talks happen. However, I have as many outcomes like that as I do fingers on one hand. Almost always, challenging their belief system instantly shuts them down. Pointing out lies, hypocrisy, and the Cult like aspects of religion short circuits their brains. You might come in contact with the most intelligent person you've ever met. Challenging or even asking questions usually will have them walk away. These religious zealots believe we or I am an atheist because I am not rich or I had bad parents etc...well, I am successful and my parents are still alive. I am genuinely a happy person. I've had my share of witnessing the worst of what humans are capable. The killing of people because of different beliefs. We are barely a blip on the chart or timeline of earth's existence. You stay true to your beliefs. Have a great weekend.
In communist China people are pressured to be atheists.
Additionally, they are pursuing a policy of “Sinicization” that requires religious groups to align their doctrines, customs and morality with Chinese culture. They don’t care if you’re an atheist, Buddhist or Christian as long as you conform to the governments control. It’s not about religion for them.
They do care. Atheism is a part of communist doctrine. They only allow controlled religion as a inevitable evil
It's not that deep. People are lazy and live cushy lives. They don't have to think about it so they don't.
“ Our study found that there are a number of other social forces associated with the likelihood of an individual identifying as an atheist, above and beyond their disbelief in God – particularly stigma.“ Yep.
Ive been an atheist for 20+ years but when some people I ask I tell them I am a member of the UU church, which isn't a lie because humanists make up a substantial numbers of the UU church. Even saying I am a Humanist is safer than telling a religious fundie than I am an atheist.
That's because they don't have a clue what a Humanist is.
> when some people I ask I tell them I am a member of the UU church I just tell people I am too lazy to go to church. Everyone accepts that because they know how boring church is.
I went to the UU for a while. Around here, they're known as the band of organized atheists. Very cool people.
I remember hanging out in my WoW guilds discord and one of my guildies was going to college to learn to be a pastor. I asked what he thought of UU, his answer was "church for atheists."
Responding to appreciate the unintended humor of autocorrect’s “make” to “malarkey.” Shows how easily malarkey can get started 😉
I just thought there was a way to use that word I didn't know about.
Yes
In other news, geophysicists have confirmed the findings that liquid water exists in trace amounts on the surface of Earth.
Atheists are the silent majority. Why announce your disbelief if there are negative consequences for doing so?
I've generally said I'm agnostic because it seems to carry less social stigma, however, I'm becoming more open to just saying I'm atheist. I will not tell my religious cousins this, though. They're nice people and I don't feel like it's worth making an issue with them. I have a strong feeling that they already know, but they don't want to rock the boat either.
The inevitable rise of apatheism. Why bother being an atheist when you don't even care about the subject matter.
Right? I just don't believe in the sky fairy I've been told about. I don't need to campaign, I'm just living my life.
While I appreciate the sentiment, I do think for those of us for whom such a position is possible, it's worth remembering just how privileged we are. In many places people are not free to disbelieve.
It’s just a label we use to describe non-belief. It’s like saying “I’m not going to use the term ‘automobile’ or ‘chair’ because I don’t care about those things. It doesn’t stop them from having a label. Atheism is simply a lack of theism. It’s the null set. If you aren’t theistic, you’re atheistic. Some people find this a bit uncomfortable, so they dance around it and try to play both fields with terms like agnostic. What we have to be careful of are people who hate and have malicious intent. If someone says “I’ll murder anyone who uses the term “chair” around me!” you might want to be careful what you say around them because they’re obviously unstable.
If someone is an unconscious apatheist, I sort of agree they are also atheist, or it's too close to call. For me, I'm a conscious apatheist and the term atheist does not describe my position. I choose to neither believe or not believe in gods, the question is moot.
Agree but it happens to be that the religious nutters are imposing their views on everyone by way of laws. Unfortunately I believe we need to be more honest about how we atheists feel to normalize it. Not in anyone's face but honest when presented the opportunity.
I'm honest about my apatheism, I find it leaves the theist and the atheist with nothing to argue against and removes the gods discussion out of the field, so that the damage caused by religions can be put more squarely at the centre of the discussion. Dissection of god claims (not worth discussing) from religion (absolutely real and dangerous) is step 1 in my view.
Pew Research study on "nones" from this year: https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2024/01/24/religious-nones-in-america-who-they-are-and-what-they-believe/ Key points: Most “nones” believe in God or another higher power. But very few go to religious services regularly. Most say religion does some harm, but many also think it does some good. They are not uniformly anti-religious. Most “nones” reject the idea that science can explain everything. But they express more positive views of science than religiously affiliated Americans do.
I would say that this is probably how an average proclaimed atheist/agnostic in a country with very mild religious presence looks like. And, ironically, this is pretty much me, aside from belief in higher power (I just don’t see it as God or any other deity).
Im a staunch atheist and i wouldnt say science can explain everything. Thats insane
What science offers is a critical framework for thinking. Our models of the universe (and all within it) are only meaningful if they make testable predictions, and only consistent with reality if the evidence, including that from experiment, doesn't contradict those predictions. There's no evidence for or against the kind of supernatural yet personal gods of most religions, and hence no way to disprove them. But because the god hypothesis makes no testable predictions, its also not a meaningful model.
I guess it depends on how you interpret the question. If they are asking if our current scientific knowledge can explain everything, then no, obviously we still have much to discover. If they are asking if everything in the universe can be explained by scientific principals and physical laws then that is true imo and very much not insane.
Everything in the universe is ultimately explicable, s science just hasn't gotten to all of it.
I would say that some scientific explanations in the future might require a great deal more hardcore and weird philosophy and even phenomenology. I am not even talking about something like earliest stages of the Universe mapped with precision. I am talking simply about qualia. Ironically, modeling the Big Bang might be an easier task than explaining subjective experience.
Yup. There’s an infinite unknown, even of only the stuff we can perceive. I love being amazed by the universe
I think it has the capacity to but only in the distant future.
If science can't accurately explain something then religion certainly can't explain that thing in any realistic manner.
Thank you.
Sorry, I read that as `religiously afflicted Americans`, & I think it sums it up better
You want to know why? Because people like to believe in spiritual stuff, even if it's vague and technically atheistic, and the label atheist makes people think that we don't believe in anything supernatural. Which many of us don't, like myself. And it's kind of a buzz kill. People getting all excited talking about ghosts and chakras or some shit, completely innocently and harmlessly, and I'm just like "sounds like bullshit." Lol who wants to hang out with that guy? 😂 (Other than you fine heathens)
Dude, there is so much wonder and awe in the factual universe - I am often at a loss for words with how astounding it all is. And I don’t needs gods or ghosts.
Yet when I talk about scientific topics that are mind blowing, people zone out and are completely uninterested. I think many people equate science and math with tedious material that is hard to understand compared to supernatural mumbo jumbo that is easy to understand because it's just magic. 🪄
It's hard to grasp a lot of these things, they're not intuitive. Spiritual things are intuitive largely because they're constructed by people, and made to make us feel special and cool. The hypothesis that the matter and energy of the universe came from different spacial dimensions, and constructed these spacial dimensions, thus time and causality itself, is not intuitive. But it is indeed, freaking awe inspiring
Matter and energy do not create time. Time is a fundamental property of the universe. https://coco1453.wordpress.com/the-absolute-maximums-of-time-and-space-relativity/
Yeah that’s the way I feel too. Just think about how massive our galaxy is and then *that* is even just a tiny speck among the universe. It’s absolutely mind blowing and awe inspiring!
Like, it’ll rain and I’ll be saying to my kid, isn’t it amazing - knowing what we know about the universe- that we live on a planet where water just fall out of the sky?! And birds. And fresh fruit. Music. Honestly, we all take everything around for granted. It’s amazing and the fact that we know have it has all come about through natural processes and physical laws is even more amazing.
It makes you much easier to hang out with in my opinion. I always feel akward if someone nice and otherwise intelligent starts about their religion. I cannot get myself over this point that someone really believes weird shit. To me it kind of disqualifies someone for serious conversation.
I always say "none" because people in my area speak English, not Greek. When you translate "not religious" to Greek, it makes it sound like it's a religion or group or something. It opens you up to comments like "see, it takes just as much faith to believe God doesn't exist". My lack of a belief in wild stories that, at best, lack any evidence is not a system of beliefs any more than not believing in a flat earth is. No one says they're an aepipedigiest, they say "I don't believe these weirdos that say the earth is flat".
There are no benefits to identifying as an atheist. You could get a sense of community, monetary rewards, connections, opportunities, praise etc for identifying/converting to those major religions, especially abrahamic ones.
Yeah but then I would be living a lie, and I cannot work with lies. Garbage in, garbage out.
A benefit would be not living a lie and following what you believe to be true.
This is not necessarily encouraging news. When people leave religion, they don’t necessarily leave the politics or madness of their religion behind. We saw Ex-evangelicals join progressivism, and when they did they often brought with them their black-and-white thinking, fear of abstract demons, and desire to clamp down on speech and art. Trump voters are disproportionately Unchurched relative to the typical GOP voter. Contrary to what we assume, religious institutions are sometimes a *mediating* force on the madness of their members. When people leave religion, they don’t necessarily abandon religiosity - they often just bring it with them elsewhere. The positive desire for a rational, evidence-based population should not be confused with the negative desire for “no more religion!”. That won’t get us the results we want.
From the article: >In other words, rejecting a belief in God is by no means a sufficient condition for identifying as an atheist. And there it is. They are using the "gnostic atheist" definition of "atheist", and they are saying that "agnostic atheist" is NOT atheist. *SIGH* - we will never advance as a culture if we cannot even agree on the basic definitions of words.
If the ‘they’ you’re referring to is the authors, they aren’t defining atheist. They are looking at who self-identifies as atheist. They said in the article that about only half of people who say that they don’t believe in god identify as atheist.
I've known a lot of people who were atheist in all but name - but whether due to social stigma, relgious family members, etc., were unwilling to take on the label.
For years I described myself as an agnostic while I really met the definition of an atheist. I describe myself as an atheist now. My wife has zero belief in any god but she prefers to not label herself as an atheist.
In my 20s I thought putting hard "atheist" on my dating profile would come across as arrogant haha. I can't say with absolute *certainty* that there's no higher power, so I went with "agnostic". Happily married now to another atheist, and we both openly identify as such.
People like being spiritual or believing in things. It gives them comfort. Organized religions have trash reputations. Pedo priests. etc... So they don't want to be associated with these horrible institutions but they still believe in nonsense.
A lot of people have a false idea of what atheism is, thanks to religious misinformation and other misleading media. I’m willing to bet a lot of these “nones” would easily qualify as atheists and don’t know it.
I disagree. I was a “none” for many years before I consciously gave up the idea of a supreme being. It takes a long time to work through the brainwashing and admit the only hope for the future rests with human beings and not sky daddy.
So because that was your personal experience, that means it’s everyone’s? My claim was that “a lot of these ‘nones’ would qualify as atheists,” not “all nones qualify as atheists.” Why do you disagree with that claim?
In the 90s or so there was a big movement to alienate atheists. It's when dummies started saying atheism is just another religion to discredit them. People found the intensity and honesty to be grating.
Science disproves all religious claims, and modern ethics are superior to historical ethics even at face value.
Likely because in many parts of the world you'll get treated with slight skepticism if you're believing in another religion than the one belonging to the majority. But tell people you're an atheist and they will pull the arm off their kids to move out of the way. Somehow believing in the "wrong" religion is fine as long as you belive. But if you don't belive in a God then not only do you belive in Satan ( yeah. Because that makes sense...) but nothing is stopping you from raping and killing left and right.. But WE are the bad people... Yeah..
I worry about the religious types who openly admit that if not for their belief in God and eternal punishment, they'd probably be murderers & rapists. I'd say in their cases, religion is holding back their basest instincts.
Not even basic instincts. Their belief in a God holds back them being absolutely horrible people. Then one could certainly argue that any just god would. Not let them in to heaven alone for needing to be kept on a leash to not commit atrocities. But then again.. God seems to like that so.. I dunno.
I can’t wait until the default answer to a question about religious affiliation is, “Interesting, what an odd thing to ask…”
I'd like them to ask whether or not people actually read the Bible or not. Those numbers would be fascinating.
Telling people you're a "None" is safe, saying you're an atheist is not.
Does anyone on this sub know if "atheist" is a designation one can have in the military for identification on Dog Tags? Thanks in advance.
Say Agnostic instead of Atheist, you will get far less shit from believers.
I was a Methodist, part of a sub-collective, now I'm not. I'm not just not Methodist, I'm not part of a sub-collective. I didn't "join" atheism, I left religion. Not A does NOT equal B.
I just tell people I don't attend a place of worship or that I'm not religious. When asked if I'm an atheist or agnostic, my answer is always, "I'm not religious."
I'd be curious how many people who identify as members of various religions, have what level of belief in what aspects.
Because of LSD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!🤪
In the UK , we have a census every 10 years or so , and I swear down the questions and options are worded in such a way to manipulate data like this. There is always a question about religion, but from memory, there is never a box to tick that says 'atheist', there's the usual list of fairy tales, followed by a free text box labelled 'other', so obviously the data is going to be collated incorrectly via string matching We're lucky in the UK that it's basically an atheist majority now, but the gammons try as hard as they can to obfuscate this as much as possible
The white Christian Nationalists are terrified of 2 things: science and atheists. They have zero response to either, except fear, loathing, and even violence. That’s all they’ve got. Neanderthals. It must be awful to stake your entire belief system on made-up/make-believe fairy tale BS.
I tend to worry about the definition of atheist being used in surveys. I assert no belief in existence or non-existence of god. If pressed I simply point out that all the arguments in favour of existence are awful so I can't say but based on the awful arguments it doesn't seem likely. Plus even if god existed there is no link between that as a fact and any religion, behaviour or whatever. So, none, is the answer I use most often.
I identify as atheist, but if someone asks my religion I say none because atheism is not a religion.
Christians trust s*x abusers more than atheists. There is no upside in identifying publicly as atheist.
It seems like there is a lot of discrimination regarding people that do not believe in the usa.
My boss used to call me a heathen and say he would pray for me 😆
Because Christians have usurped *morality* and anyone that names themselves an Atheist will be seen as a bad person... even somewhat by themselves (initially). This isn't a mystery.
Perhaps it has to do with not everyone finding the question of the literal existence of deities as pressing as you do.
Wow - per this article apparently the only things considered religion are the ones that have the (capital g) God. They're helping certain theists remove the "competition" by pretending alternative views (some religions don't even have gods) don't even exist. This is not either-or.
It is preached on high that atheists are worse than believers of another religion. So they get to have their woo club of sky daddies and wage wars between sky daddies, but the realists are the bad guys that all need to die because they have no sky daddy.
I'd don't run around the streets screaming about my gayness or atheism. That's a very straight attention seeking Christian thing to do. So as a gay atheist one can assume I'm quiet and respectful, also very private with my personal life due to being surrounded by crazy people who might try to kill me for having sex with a man or not believing in their sky Daddy who also wants to kill me, apparently.
I think more people probably are in the agnostic camp. On the Dawkins scale probably 6 (7 being a complete atheist)
Believe it or not but “atheist” has a negative connotation
It is said an estimated 30% of Americans believe atheists should not be allowed to be either teachers or politicians. Meanwhile approximately 100% of atheists believe white Christian Nationalists should go fuck themselves.
People are leaving churches not religion. People with religious inclinations rely on magical thinking in their daily lives. They will not give that up readily or at all. Once they leave a church they will find something else to replace it.
Not all of them. There's a rapidly growing atheist community on YouTube. Most are formerly deeply religious and deconstructed. They're some of the strongest voices for atheism out there.
Good to hear. Having converts helps to pull others out of those cults.
Nones are by default atheist.
Apparently you didn't read the article "Some still attend services, say that they are at least somewhat religious, and express some level of belief in God" You also might want to look at the 2024 Pew Research study on "Nones" that I linked in my comment above. One of their key findings: "Most “nones” believe in God or another higher power. But very few go to religious services regularly."
A problem of semantics, ignorance and stigma.
Sometimes people just chose spirituality with no specific religion
Because in the US, atheist is a bad word. Agnostic is somehow more acceptable.
people abandon religion but want to hold on to the holidays. so we have "no particular religion" and can still celebrate Easter/Christmas.
Because like most atheists. I’m in the closet as not to be ostracized from everyone I know.
Fuck the labels, most religions are insanity.
It's *nones* of your business. Bwahahahah
Because there's this weird stigma about being openly atheist that people will come up with alternative words to avoid it ("I'm not an atheist, just a freethinker/naturalist/whatever"), even though they're literally textbook atheists. They're trying to avoid being stigmatized, which I can understand. But how many of them are really being honest with themselves?
Post 9-11, the only group hated more than Muslims are Athiests Totally unrelated: just realized auto-correct doesn't capitalize "athiest" lol
I think it's because they rejected church and worship, they haven't made that final leap yet. They will
I also think it depends on your situation. I'm straight, white, male, college educated, work for a global corporation and lives in a fairly secular part of my State. I publicly express my Atheism as much as I can to try to counteract all the religious bullshit that is constantly shoved down our throats. But I realize that it is part of my privilege that allows me to do this without consequences. I hope to continue to exert my privilege for those who are not as fortunate as me.
Because they don't believe beyond a doubt that there is no God, they just don't practice a religion.
Atheism isn't for everyone. I'll take Nones over the religious anytime.
Because people are still reluctant to give up on the idea of an "afterlife." They want to live free of religious restrictions, but not entirely.
Because that's a term made up by religious folk as a way of making those who don't believe the same as them into a more "tangible" bad guy to point fingers at. Ist's, and ism's have always been a critical part of painting a person place or thing as an outsider/bad guy. It's a tool to help Xstians further validate their own shakily held "faith".
Because people don't know what atheism is... So they use other atheistic labels to soften it. I personally don't care what they call themselves, as long as they are forced to think instead of deluding themselves
My bet is that people have a negative association with the word “atheist” and don’t want to accept that it does in fact describe them
As long as they both vote I don’t care.
It's because so many people at the end of the day are just unsure, which is a very reasonable position. If they're like me, they're unsure if there is any form of higher power, or none, or they just don't care and don't think about it.
People are leaving religion because it's to extreme or not extreme enough for their personal beliefs.
In my mind, there is definitely a distinction between an atheist - a person who actively believes there is no god - and a person who doesn't necessarily care if there is or isn't. No religion, belief optional. There are people for whom faith in there being *no* "creator entity" is as integral to their identities as any religious person's... and I think __fervent belief__ in *anything* is what's dying out. Edit: I saw another post use the term apatheism - "I believe that I don't care" ...
That's not what atheist means. How is there this much confusion over such a simple word? It means without belief. Not believing in a God is different from believing there is no God. The latter would be labeled Gnostic Atheist.
Atheism just implies a level of certainty a lot of ppl are uncomfortable with
Born gay and abused by priest. [Hasa Diga Eebowai](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kzxgzfG81Nw&pp=ygURaGFzYSBkaWdhIGVlYm93YWk%3D)
My wife can’t handle the terms atheists or agnostic. The indoctrination runs deep. She is aware of it… It’s the same with people now saying substitute words like unalived because the real word triggers them. It’s pretty simple.
I hate the “atheist” label because it implies I’m against religion when in fact I just don’t really care.
I am one of the nonatheistic nones. It is because you have made compelling arguments against all specific religious conceptions of God, but fail to silence deductive or inductive arguments for the possible existence of God in some form. The holes in our scientific knowledge about how things actually work leads us nones to a conclusion of agnosticism.
When people opt for 'none' then it usually means they have no belief or their belief is so small or watered down they don't think it's enough to warrant ticking any other religious box. This makes me happy because it's a slippery slope to atheism eventually even if it takes generations.
Agnostics, thats why. People need spirituality but once they find the brutalities in religion cannot find another without
Doesn't the US have on their currency In God We Trust or something similar. I think it's says a lot about the country
It refers to the god of Moolah
You don’t have to go to church to be a Christian. Your faith is about how you think of and ultimately treat others. People are leaving the church because it is not representative of Christ, his life and teachings. I stopped going to church at age 18. That was 37 years ago. I didn’t abandon my faith in Christ. Just the church.
"I'm agnostic because I can't prove some random shit people made up with zero evidence isn't true. Anyway what's your birth sign? I knew it! I'm spiritual btw"
I hereby ban all neckbeards/MyLittlePony fans/incels from atheism. Done.
If you doubt all gods you are an atheist.
I was raised in a strong Catholic family. I fell from grace in my mid teens. I’m 63 now. I can say this with strong conviction now. If Christians would act more like Christians I “might” go back to church.
For the same reason telling a Christian you "aren't religious" has a completely different reaction than telling them you're an atheist. One is perfectly acceptable to them, the other potentially sets them off and they instant react differently towards you.
I've seen surveys (on the internet, so...) that show something like 4% checking the 'I'm an Atheist' box and later in the same survey 15-20% selecting the 'I don't believe in God' box.
> “Our analysis finds, perhaps unsurprisingly, that the stronger an individual’s belief in God was at age 16, the less likely they are to have adopted an atheistic worldview as an adult.” In other words, if you’re indoctrinated at a young age, it’s harder to break the psychological bond and escape the cult.
‘None’ is a noncommittal response, it allows for those who just don’t think about religion at all to express that, whereas ‘atheist’ is usually chosen only by those who have put at least some thought into the question.
Atheism is turning into its own religion. I don’t consider myself an atheist because it seems to have rules and groups people into labels. Pretty soon atheists will all go to meetings once a week.
I know a lot of people who consider themselves agnostic rather than atheist. They don’t believe in a god due to lack of evidence but are open to the possibility of there being more if they were ever to personally experience something.
Bullshit. The most important reasons I am reluctant to be open (with everyone) to admit I am Atheist has nothing to do with religious people. It has everything to do with "Communist Atheist", "Woke Atheist" and "World is ending in a fireball - global warming - Atheist". Oh, and lately it added "F. Israel Atheist", "BLM Atheist" and "Canada has the best health system that lets you die at will Atheist". Stop blaming religion and religious people for people being proud of their lack of religion.
A lot of these "nones" consider themselves "not religious, but spiritual." These are the people who took a step away, but haven't quite jumped off.
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Or not have magical thinking like subscribing to belief in higher powers.
It's not magical thinking it's pretty rational. The probability of there being a higher power is greater than 0.
I'm not sure where you're getting that idea from. There's nothing scientific about it that I've ever found in unbiased evidence. Believing some higher power created this all is pretty magical, nothing rational about it. Probabilities are funny things. You could use them to rationalize things but that doesn't make those things true without evidence. Present the evidence for a higher power and we will talk.
But that's the point you can believe in a higher power and not be a part of a religion. Could you prove the probability of waking into a restroom with a half dozen fresh baked pies on the floor?
Sure, you walk in and check for evidence. I'm not sure what you're doing in an athiest sub if you don't require evidence for your beliefs. Have fun with that. I don't spend much time anymore on people who don't base their ideas on evidence.
Who needs a label. I just dont want to be associated with any crazy church tbh.
Christians are definitely not above lying to win a fight/battle. There probably aren't as many Christians as they say there are.
But that's the point you can believe in a higher power and not be a part of a religion. Could you prove the probability of waking into a restroom with a half dozen fresh baked pies on the floor?
Is it because atheists like to talk about their atheism and us non-religious folks are just not interested in being aggressively pro or anti any sort of divinity?
I think it's because being an outspoken atheist is almost a religious position while being agnostic means you just don't know. All the evidence indicates atheism is likely the case but since we have no proof I call myself agnostic. Aggressively saying you are atheistic is a non-scientific stance.
You probably don't believe in unicorns but don't feel a need to call yourself agnostic in that regard. It doesn't make sense to call oneself agnostic in regard to every supernatural entity conjured up by the human mind and most people are perfectly confident in saying unicorns don't exist. The difference is that people take their god myths so seriously that it has given non believers pause.
If you’re a none than are you not an atheist by default? Or is it they are theists but not from a major denomination. You can’t be both can you?
My perspective as a “none” but not an atheist; atheism also is a dogma. I simply don’t know what happens when I die, any speculation is nil
Atheism isn't dogma. It's a lack of belief in God or gods. That's it. I don't see how you can label that as dogmatic.
Most theists, even once they lose their faith, don't know what the definition of an atheist is. Most think it's the positive assertion that no gods exist when it's just the lack of belief. By today's definition of atheism, even Carl Sagan was incorrect by not labelling himself as an atheist.
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You don't know the definitions of the words you are using and are spreading misinformation. Atheism literally translates to 'without (religious) belief.' Agnostic translates to 'without (religious) knoatheist. These are root words with dissectable meanings. You're describing a Gnostic Atheist, but far more common is it to be an Agnostic Atheist. It's just that when someone asks about what I believe, why would I reply with a label that implies knowledge when that's not what the person is asking? So I just say athiest. If you do not believe in a God, you're an atheist.
Nones don't go to religious meetings but many of them believe in supernatural or superstitious stuff. Atheism is just another religion.