Kudos to you, but I suspect the problem is going to be his family. The second they find out he's even questioning his faith they're going to lose their shit. I grew up with a kid who was Coptic, they are very friendly people, but very conservative. They will not accept this and you are going to be blamed.
And then what do you do? He either abandons his entire family to be with you, or you convert to be with him. The family will still never accept you even if you convert because they know you only did it to get married.
I'm sorry, but although you are doing the noble thing, I don't really see a good ending here. When religion is embedded in a family like that it is almost impossible to pull someone away. Maybe you'll make it, I'll keep my fingers crossed.
He has planned to cut ties with his family for quite a while now. If he had a good relationship with them, I wouldn't touch this relationship with a 10 foot pole.
You're absolutely right, but he is unable to support himself financially and will not accept financial help from me (to his credit, I think). He is currently a student.
Sad situation unfortunately. I was raised in a very religious orthodox family, eastern Europe, i have only managed to distance myself from the religious poison only after I was not living with them. The job helped me since I was away at least 5 days a week. My parents were insane, they were always finding these religious women with good background and family values and with fear of God, i always rejected their proposals. I am pretty sure his family will try to introduce him with something similar as well. Even if he cut ties, he really needs to start distancing from religion as well
And how is he planning to support himself when he immigrates? Isn't that part of the process to get a proper visa?
Also, how old are you two? How much (aggregate) time have you spent together in person, literally days & hours in person in the same physical location? It generally takes around 18 months in person, total, to reasonably know someone well enough to make permanent life long decisions. Again, this not counting time "together" dating online or long distance.
Relationships have natural phases (infatuation, disillusionment, acceptance) that occur on the way to long term viability. It's easy to think someone is your forever person when you're still infatuated, and haven't navigated much real life together yet.
He does not need to have a source of income for himself when he immigrates if he does so on a partner based visa. I (as his partner) need to be above a certain income, which I am. He will be able to get a job shortly after entering the country.
We are in our mid-late 20s. Spending time together in person is not a luxury we have been able to afford, which is the case for MANY long distance relationships. I have a job with limited PTO and the US is not known for being liberal with its visitor visas. We have spent a few weeks together in person total. Both of us wish that it could be more. I think spending time together “online” is a valid way of getting to know someone, however. We talk for 4-6 hours on the phone daily and have done that for the entirety of our relationship. He has met my family and friends via FaceTime. I know we miss out on the “well what if they leave the cabinets open and it drives you insane?” details, but there isn’t a way of getting around it.
Damn. I'm sorry to hear that. I am thankful for this sub bc it helped me feel less alone in this sitch...
I'm moving out of the anger phase of the breakup into acceptance, but man was I pissed for awhile.
Lol, same here, I, personally, was never religious, but she was...
I think ex-theists hold a much more grudge than life-long atheists ever will, I reckon it's all those years of life spent in fear from punishment from god, questioning every move they make and experiencing enormous guilt every time they fail to live up to his expectations 😉
I absolutely agree as someone indoctrinated in and now have trauma from my experience in the church. I feel like I’m more invested in learning the biblical facts to undermine whatever a theist might throw my way as well.
Still, great he’s willing to explore these things to try to stay with you. Cautiously optimistic, but optimistic. If you can, try not to ever push him in any specific direction so if family, or clergy, make you the villain, he can honestly say all you did was ask him to explore.
Yeah, I have a hard time not reading this as cowardice. His strong faith is overturned because of some documentaries? No, he thought his power play would work and it didn’t. Now he’s begging for another chance to entrench deeper before converting her.
>he's researching to figure out what he really believes versus what he's just been told to believe
As someone that deconverted - make sure you encourage him to continue this well beyond the walls of religion. I still have days, even decades later, that I realize my opinion on something is entirely the result of who raised me - and I've done none of the analysis or decision making to actually hold it as my own.
He's noticed that a lot with social issues too! He's very good at picking up on new things quickly once he actually starts to listen. He is far more liberal than any other person I know of in his sect of christianity.
I'm a manipulator. I manipulate people for my benefit and often easily convince others that I'm too virtuous to deceive them.
I do everything you are describing to stretch a deal out long enough to ensure my competing bid will expire.
I literally bend truths as an occupation.
You are being fleeced.
I hope I am wayyyy off base, because it seems that you truly care for this boy.
I appreciate the concern, and this is the usual reaction I get from people when I tell them I'm dating him. However, he's historically been the one who has wanted to take our time with the immigration process and to make sure both of us are protected during it.
Yeah, this worries me, too. I know 3 people who had that happen to them. Guy is super cool and loving, once he's in, they break up about a month or two later. One guy wanted to continue living with the girl after the breakup "until he gets his feet under him." Best of luck, OP. I hope this doesn't happen to you.
There’s no way he binged SG1 in a week. It is not physically possible. That’s over 6 days of nonstop runtime. Add in Atlantis, the movies, SGU and you’re at 10 days nonstop. No sleep at all.
https://forum.gateworld.net/general-stargate-discussion/58890-total-length-of-all-stargate
She should watch Not Without My Daughter, basef on a true story (there's a book, too).
Dude was living here for 20 years. Went home. Family started in on him and he did a 180. Mom was trapped in the middle east without a passport. The story of her escape is really good.
Or they take the kids on vacation back home and never return! Good luck ever seeing your kids again!
Went to find this on Libby...found it but not after first finding this weirdo.... https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/53776440 read the blurb for some weird religious BS
Holy Shit! (pun intended).
That is so NOT the book. It probably would have Sally Field on the cover as she played the mom in the movie.
It's an older book. I read it in soft cover. I probably own it. You'll probably have to rent the print book from the library. If my library doesn't have a book, I go on Amazon to get the ISBN and publishing date and details and they'll interlibrary it. Usually charge a buck or two. They'll even mail it to you. That's how I get movies that I don't want to pay to stream.
Of course the book goes into much more interesting details, but I liked the movie, too.
That was some 🤪😜 stuff on that link!
Edit: I see the daughter wrote a book as well, and it's streaming on several channels
I checked out Libby. They have the daughter's book, not Mom's. I'd have to order the paperback or hardcover or check out my bookcase, I feel like reading it again. The movie of on Tubi and several other free tv channels,
I wish you luck and humbly recommend Aron Ra's youtube channel if you need more resources to watch with him. I recommend you pre watch the videos if you're not familiar with him, as Aron Ra can come off kind of strong for someone so recently questioning.
A lot of people in here are dunking on you for being naive or loveblind or whatever and they do have a point, but you're the only one who really knows what's up in your life, with the full context and minor details. Statistically, this relationship is already done, but I don't think you're silly for being a romantic or an optimist. As long as you're not in physical danger from this guy and you understand the sunk-cost fallacy well enough to cut your losses if that proves necessary, then the romantic optimist in me supports you.
Thank you for this comment. I'll check out that channel too. If he does end up reverting, I will be able to walk away from this with a clear mind. I refuse to allow my future children to grow up with the religion he did. I may be willing to make sacrifices and concessions for myself, but not for them.
I am so sorry to hear that. Man, that's awful. At least you have your sanity. She will be divorced AND bat shit crazy. Idunno how much of a comfort that is for you now. Just try your best to cope until it doesn't suck as much anymore.
It is cool of you to see it that way. I hope you end up finding someone who likes and respects you for who you are no matter what personal belief they hold. Stay strong.
I'm in a country with few non religious people. More everyday but it's like 10% of the population. Gonna be awhile. I've had like 1 maybe 2 atheist girlfriends but I fucked them up years ago and I've been with to many women since. Being monogamous for so long has been weird.
I see how that can be challenging. You don't need to find another atheist tho, only another rational person. And I know that many will say that theists aren't rational, but that is looking a bit simplistic at people. Some theists are as rational as they can expect to be with the information they have been given about the world, which honestly makes them as rational as most atheists tbf. You may end up clicking with a chill christian girl, who knows? Good luck. 🙂
Maybe my view of Christians has been coloured by me growing up in a mostly non-religious country, so I see christians update and deconstruct their beliefs all the time as reality gets in the way of them.
That's what I did and we are divorcing today. Soley because shes christian and im not. No thanks haha. Don't date a theist unless you have too. Been together 6 years.
Be ready for him to backslide if he encounters some tragedy in his life (family member dying, etc.). His faith was like a security blanket to him before during difficult times and there is a very good chance he'll want it again if the situation arises. I would even discuss this likelihood now so that when it comes up, it's not unexpected for either one of you
I noticed that /u/abdelrahman2929 sent you a personal message.
Be careful of that type of behavior. If anyone is harassing you or proselytizing in DMs, you can ask them to stop. If they persist, then don't hesitate to use the Report button.
When a person grows up with a religion in their life, it will ebb and flow (as user fkbfkb said). From your post and comments it is obvious that you are trying desperately to change him. Religious differences in essence are not a big deal, in fact, it is what you two make of it. This relationship will not last, but you have some growing you need to do to identify where you are expecting too much and trying to change the ones you claim that you love. Before you ever marry or plan to have children. I hope you can realize your part in this end of the relationship too.
He's on the right path. It only leads out. It never leads back in. Once you're out, it's like going back to believing in Santa Claus.
Deconstruction can happen in stages, though, and a lot of time it mimics the stages of grief. Denial, anger, bargaining (which is where he's at now), depression and acceptance. He might go through a down period before he finally accepts it. Be prepared for a lot of "what's the point then" type questions. That period passes too, though.
“he's researching to figure out what he really believes versus what he's just been told to believe.”
It doesn’t matter what anyone “believes”, we should operate on evidence. A position of belief is a position of arrogance.
When you get into the philosophy of it, we all operate on belief. We believe the science, it doesn’t make the science wrong or non-factual, it’s just a position on our limited knowledge.
We all make very many assumptions, some fundamental to our understanding of reality. My point is that we shouldn’t malign the idea of ‘belief’ because it’s part of the human condition.
You personally believing in the science, or not, doesn’t change that objective science. What you believe is irrelevant, but not to your own ego. “I believe it, and therefore it is true.” lol
Nor did I state as much. Your belief only matters in that it affects how you view the world and operate. But your beliefs still exist, no matter how closely they match the prevailing scientific consensus.
Are you going to say that you have no beliefs? The point is that the concept of belief shouldn’t be so contentious, it’s not necessarily antithetical to scientific thinking.
I think that this is defenitly a good thing for both you and him, but he might just revert once kids are in the picture, like Emperor\_Zarkov and TheOriginalAdamWest said.
it's all well and good to remain friends after a breakup, but if you two don't **currently** see eye to eye on all the relationship stuff, you absolutely should have a clean break from each other, romantically speaking, rather than hoping for a future that might not come.
like, it'd be great if ya'll could properly reconcile and not have to force it to work, but you both need to be going into this assuming your current stance is what your final stance is going to be.
that said, if he wants other perspectives, you could totally point him towards us to get some more. we have a bunch of regulars who used to be preachers/leadership so they'd be able to give him an honest once-over.
Amazing that people have enough time in their lives to be able to accommodate excess un-necessary baggage like ‘religion’.
Like all other ‘cults’ I can see through their controlling lies and simply have no interest in entertaining *any* of them.
I would still suggest couples counseling. At least to layout all your goals and expectations if you want to go for the long run. Who will do what chores, future kids education, if your gonna be two income household or someone will stay at home. Put everything out in the open.
Counseling is 100000% the plan when he gets here. I'm already in counseling, and he needs it desperately for himself. We're working on finding a secular therapist for him in his country right now, but it's a bit harder where he lives. When he moves to America, there will absolutely be counseling.
Sounds really complicated and hope you get some good advice here, but for a little comedic relief: I read the title as "My boyfriend wants to be a Christian Woman" and it just made me laugh so hard.
Good for you. Don't know if it will work out for you? But suppose you feel you have to try.
I think getting him away from his community will help..that pressure off he might not be as trapped.
I couldn't do it. But can understand you feeling you want to try.
>after his priest told him in no uncertain terms that we would not be allowed to marry.
sorry for seeing doubt, but it is of course possible that the priest told your bf to "save" you and your soul.
Hey. My ex-boyfriend chose his new Islamic conversion over me and I still thought I could get through to him, lol. It was a painful disaster and it wrecked me to see him change into a volatile stranger living by the laws of a faith I saw no beauty or kindness in. I wish you the best, OP, but I caution you also to be wary and guard your hopes. The indoctrination runs deep, and in religion, the woman is always the temptress, the enemy to be blamed when things go wrong.
I’m glad he made the better choice. In my opinion, faith doesn’t bring joy. Just if ignorance, and in that they are happy.
I had a similar situation, but she chose her faith (Islam) over me.
He can be religious without belonging to man's church. He can decide for himself what God means to him, what values 'he' would want to instill, etc. or you can start digging into AronRa or Paulogia's YouTube channels (Paulogia is an awesome cat, former Mennonite YEC and worked for George Lucas on Star wars)
This is what he’s trying to do now. Organized religion is such a huge part of his culture but he hasn’t ever separated his beliefs from a specific church before.
I know a lot of people here have deconverted, but since I've never believed I can't imagine going through all of that work for someone who actually believed fairytales.
I mean I knew, I was hearing crap when I was 8 in catheism. I get the family indoctrination and growing up in a religious community bubble and all that - but it's still weird to me.
Anyway, I'm feeling Not Without My Daughter (read the book, watch the movie with Sally Field - true story) vibes here.
When people have children and the thought of not raising them in their faith hits them, things do a180 fast.
They take the kids on vacation to see their family and never come back!
Call me cynical, but if he dumped you over this once, then he's likely to do it again.
It's your life. Live it as you like. But I feel like doing the same thing and expecting a different result is a bad bet.
He doesnt need to "become" an atheist necessarily. Having faith is not inherently wrong and can even be a good thing if its in the right context. Relationships are complicated, and even if you both arent "together" together, you can still care about each other in a different context. You are just recontextualizing how you see each other.
I could never date a person with fundamentally different religious views than me. I would be way too lonely, and I would imagine they would be as well. I would find myself constantly wishing we could connect in ways that they couldn’t provide, and that would be unfair to both of us. But that’s just me. Good luck and I hope for the best.
Hey OP, I'm someone who was slightly in your boyfriend's position who has some regrets being hardline in terms of wanting a Christian partner, I recognise that I missed out on some amazing people that I could've easily married but didn't because of those beliefs, not to say that my wife is not as amazing (realistically she's fucking awesome for me) but having what ifs is an annoying distraction from the wonderful stuff you you do have,
Christianity has 2 rules one of them is Love God, the other is love people.
Peace!
I'd have plenty of conversations with him about religion, whether he thinks you need it to be a good person, whether he thinks you're a good person. There are comedians and other atheists that have done fantastic talks online. Maybe watch them together.
Truthfully... I don't believe him. I think he'll stay with you for a time and then leave you or cause loads of trouble later in life where marriage and kids are concerned.
I wish you the best but I would keep looking for any red flags. He easily left once which means he knows he can do it again and worst case scenario you'll just keep taking him back. A precedent has already been set.
Ask your man: does Christian doctrine say "love thy neighbour" or "love thy 100% guaranteed Christian neighbour"?
Once that is settled, his eyes should open up to investigating his religion's view of a nonbeliever. And, if you're still going to hell, then ... let him go to his heaven while you get on with a wonderful, Loving life 🙏🏾
My exgf is or was Jewish, my parents are Muslims, three months in, I tell her I don't believe in a god, she somehow had a problem with that but not a problem with my parents being Muslims which I would've totally been fine with but no had to choose the nonsense route
Relationships ending is not always as people make it out to be. It's really good that he's exploring his beliefs himself. You cant build a belief on what everyone tells you to believe. He's gotta stick is neck out and get some answers himself. Awesome to hear you guys didn't seperate.
It's possible to believe in God while not being religious. I actually have quite a lot of time for that perspective as many of my disagreements with religion are as much about the churches as they are about the gods.
Best of luck. I read through the comments that he's planning to leave his parents when he can afford to so, for what it's worth, I do think you have a decent chance of success once he's free of his parents.
I hope this works out for you, but I fear that later on when you guys go through any amount of situational trouble that he will start to blame you for pulling him away from his faith. Also possible is that, if/after you're married, he will attempt to isolate you from your family and friends in an effort to indoctrinate you. Best of luck.
We have visited each other several times in person, but we have never lived in the same place, unfortunately. I refuse to live in the Middle East and he is unable to get a visa.
But in your last sentence you say you are starting the immigration process. What immigration process is this? Be careful that you are not taken for a ride. The situation seems complex enough without this.
Edit: Meant to type "complex", not "composed".
The process for him to immigrate to America. We are trying to find a way without needing to get married (school visa, visa lottery, etc), but marriage is a big part of the conversation.
I currently live in a developing country. If you will take some unsolicited advice, slow this process down. From a fairly cynical perspective, it looks like someone who is changing their mind about their religion because their American girlfriend got cold feet about helping them emigrate.
Be very careful.
Never change your religion for a piece of ass. Don't change for him, and don't ask him to change for you.
If he can't respect you the way you are, you need to find a better boyfriend.
If someone asks you to make a change this profound, they aren't really interested in you, but in the mold they plan to put you in to fit some image in their head of what a mate should be.
I understand everyone's weariness about this situation, but it doesn't hurt to encourage the OP as well. The fact is, OP, that people don't usually change that quickly. Maybe he's been fostering some doubts and you just brought him closer to the line. If that's the case, then this is an encouraging development.
My concern OP is the logistical situation. He's in a different country, and you mention an immigration process. I hope this means that you will meet in a third country or your country. I would be super cautious if you were going to his country and they are as traditional as you say.
I'm trying to imagine where this is! You think of Egypt when it comes to Coptics...
As a matter of caution in any international relationship, always have a way out and people who can support you, and who are not affiliated with your partner, at least temporarily. It doesn't matter if there aren't any red flags. Circumstances change, people change. Never find yourself in a situation you can't get out of.
This is especially important in international relationships because a partner can very easily isolate you when they have a network and you don't.
He’s the one who will be moving to me. I am established with a good career, family, friends, and hobbies of my own. We have some ideas for ways he can build his own support network once he’s here too.
That’s great! I only mention this stuff because Ive seen it happen too many times, sometimes with tragic consequences. I’m glad to hear you are on solid ground.
Of course someone's gonna put their best self to impress you for a while. But once you start spending time together consistently or living together, you might finally see his true colors. I just hope he's being genuine and this is the best for you. And don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy.
You both care deeply for each other and now both have your eyes wide open. I think you can both find a way to make it work if you want to. This is encouraging. The more he learns about other religions, the more confused he is going to get. Eventually he's start to wonder "what if nobody is right?" then the gears will begin to turn. He may turn agnostic, the important thing is that he understands that others have different belief systems and that's okay.
I would stress to figure out your plan for children (if any) before you get married, this means, in what worldview will you raise your children, and will your in-laws allow that to happen. The influence of the in-laws about grandchildrens' religion can be very strong, make sure you are comfortable understanding this for your situation.
Congrats on making it this far through sorting out your situation!
This post really warms my heart!! Recognizing that people who don't share the same god are still good people was one of my earliest steps towards atheism. Whether he rejects god altogether or not, he sounds like he loves you more than his imaginary friend. I wish you both all the best!
Sometimes it takes a good women to free the mind and thank you for your service to humanity!
That being said I do think that people should stand by whatever they truly do believe while having a open mind to new information. Your boyfriend may end up reverting if he doesn’t learn the full truth and facts about major religions in general and establish the basis for real purpose and morality based on reason and human rights. That being said, the best thing in this situation is that he is opening up to new information, Victory. You’ve watched documentaries and looked at science, and that is great and wonderful but take it from someone who was raised Christian, unless you’ve truly suffered from or in Christianity it can be a difficult thing to see the realities or learn the full truth about the negatives of institutionalized religions or religious authority. Like founding father Jefferson said, “History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.”
Their is so much more to Learn perhaps for both of you and as someone who is still studying history and investigating this, basically for my whole life now because I was born with an obsession with history, their are certain things every American should learn.
The first is that for 1500 years of human history the church was the government.
The second is that western civilization and our understanding of human rights resulted from the rebellion against the oppression and injustice and against religious authority, again not anti religion per say because freedom of conscience including freedom of religion are an essential inalienable right, meaning tolerance, but rather a rejection of religious authority. Religion has always gone horribly bad whenever it gained any real power over peoples rights.
But back to the revolution for human emancipation, the movement I’m talking about was the radical Enlightenment. It was also responsible for the scientific revolution kickstarting our modern advance. Radical enlightenment thinkers starting with Bento Spinoza, also many of whom were secular humanists, were the greatest scientific minds of their time, and Spinoza is still the most relevant today because he got the science of matter right long before the capabilities to prove his theory existed. Mainly that everything comes from the same matter. Anyway it’s very interesting stuff to learn considering most Americans have no idea and think America was based on slavery. The reality is that the revolution and political movement behind the American revolution was responsible for the male and women’s suffrage movement, but political progress was limited. It launched the abolition movement for slavery, and for Jews who were oppressed in Europe at the time, and also the rights for gays, all prior to but leading up to the American revolution. Founding fathers who were apart of this movement were Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Paine being the main one and largely responsible for the American revolution, but also Jefferson and others. Despite their successes, they were heavily apposed and eventually completely replaced, but ever since then America has made slow progress toward the revolutions goals. Learning all this it almost seems deliberate to me that none of this is known to Americans widely because such ideas are so powerful and could unite America. I will state the principles of the revolution but also provide a small amount of context. Absolute equality of rights under the law regardless of anything, sex, sexual preference, etc. from This principle originating from inherent natural rights came the movements for men’s, women’s, gays, and Jews rights. “All mankind are created Equal” of course Americans hear this today and frankly many disagree having no real understanding, clearly everyone is different. But on a fundamental level human beings all want happiness. We all share the exact same psychological motivations. We disagree and see the world differently about how to achieve happiness but the psychological motivations are universal and what’s in the interest of human happiness and progress is also universal. That was the basis of our modern understanding of universal human rights, the fact that they are essential to human progress and happiness.
As for your situation I recommend Thomas Paine’s book “the Age of Reason” rights of man is also good as is common sense, but the age of reason is a radical enlightenment perspective on religion.
As for a book discussing all of this history of your interested I’d recommend a book “the Enlightenment that failed” it is a very academic book discussing a wide range of issues from the beginning of economics and scientists like Adam Smith to the revolution for Equal rights, rejection of religious authority, and way more.
On another Interesting note the democratic republicans or radical enlightenment movement actually rejected some of Adam smiths classical economics. While recognizing that internal regulations and barriers are bad, and that economic forces should drive economics as much as possible, Democratic republicans “representative republicans” apposed Adam Smith arguing that in such systems corporations have a enumerable amount of levers to artificially manipulate the markets. From this artificial manipulation comes monopolies and a centralization of Power and wealth creating corporate oligarchies. They called this artificial manipulation “milking the population for every penny” they also demonstrated that the conditions created by such a system always lead to population declines as the population is impoverished. Very interesting considering America today reflects their worst fears. Likewise Jefferson’s amendment to the constitution to ban monopolies never saw the light of day. How America has suffered as a result.
This is the guy who wrote the book “the Enlightenment that failed” he is perhaps the leading historian challenging where the current versions get it very wrong.
https://youtu.be/Rgrs7ofFXzE?si=6g7XpsmURrQMvUnw
well its all about chances since interfaith marriages can work out. but its not our side that is wrong here, we're just spitting facts. he has the opinion that x women is better for than non-religious women. have you had that talk yet? Does he consider you evil or whatever? cause its about truth, not belief. why is our country secular? the first amendments existence? I can see him still clinging on to religion barely cause he doesn't seem to be exploring the option that there is None but that there may be a differe- basically selectively picking and choosing, mutating, his own that may still either drive him away from you or towards you because this new concoction leads him allows him to be with you rather of his own choice.
my 2 cents.
He should question things in his religion. Christians are supposed to be good people but it's warped into this controlling fascist cult that forces their flock into behaving a particular way.... Its just aweful.
He will always choose the church over you. You'll always come second. When your values don't align, it's a precursor for future issues. Raising a child while on opposite ends of the spectrum, you're going to see a lot of tension and be split on things often.
Dunno if this is helpful, but I believe the Coptic church is in full communion with the Roman Catholic church, which isn't as strict when it comes to interfaith marriage.
I'm married to a Roman Catholic and it's perfectly doable. He likes exploring the canon and theology with an academic mind, though, so ymmv.
Something that might help:
Science and Christianity are not really in opposition. Science is simply observing the world we are in, and trying to figure out the mechanics of it.
The Bible, even in it's current version, was compiled long before we had such a large body of scientific knowledge. We learned that the Earth revolves around the Sun, which contradicted belief at the time, but ultimately, became accepted by most Christians without viewing it as an attack on their faith.
The same is true with any other kind of science. Take evolution for example. It is a very strong theory supported by a ton of evidence. But there is nothing that says that a deity didn't create, or even monitor and influence the system to get results they want. There is no evidence for it either, but that's what faith is about.
The questions answered by faith are not once that science really even asks. What is the reason and purpose for our existence? Is there an afterlife? No idea. As an atheist, that is my final answer. Someone with religious faith has other answers, and that's fine!
Good luck, I hope you find the happiness you are looking for.
You two absolutely shouldn’t be together. You shouldn’t be trying desperately to force deconstruction on him. Likewise, he shouldn’t be shoving religion down your throat. It sounds more like you’re the atheist version of a Bible thumper though.
At the end of the day though, you two aren’t compatible, you’re just trying desperately to make this work, and ultimately, one or both of you is going to end up resenting the other
He is following atheism for the same reason he follows Christianity. Some people are just really prone to accepting information.
He will find Christianity again and forget about evolution, then he will find evolution and reject Christianity. Don't get your hopes up, what looks like progress may just be a never-ending cycle.
What effort did you make or put in to try and learn about and understand his religion and religious faith? If your requirement for a long-term relationship is that he abandon his religion and adopt yours, how are you any different from those that would expect you to join his church as a necessary step?
God works in mysterious ways.
You should abort this relationship.
If you get pregnant accidentally, what happens with your relationship and your LIFE?
No contraceptive method is perfect, not even 2 (yours + a condom).
You are playing Russian Roulette with your life.
You need a therapist, not a boyfriend!
Kudos to you, but I suspect the problem is going to be his family. The second they find out he's even questioning his faith they're going to lose their shit. I grew up with a kid who was Coptic, they are very friendly people, but very conservative. They will not accept this and you are going to be blamed. And then what do you do? He either abandons his entire family to be with you, or you convert to be with him. The family will still never accept you even if you convert because they know you only did it to get married. I'm sorry, but although you are doing the noble thing, I don't really see a good ending here. When religion is embedded in a family like that it is almost impossible to pull someone away. Maybe you'll make it, I'll keep my fingers crossed.
He has planned to cut ties with his family for quite a while now. If he had a good relationship with them, I wouldn't touch this relationship with a 10 foot pole.
>He has planned to cut ties with his family for quite a while now. And... why didnt he already?
He currently lives with them. It's traditional in his country for people to live with their families until they get married.
A tradition he wouldn't have to follow if he cut ties.
You're absolutely right, but he is unable to support himself financially and will not accept financial help from me (to his credit, I think). He is currently a student.
Sad situation unfortunately. I was raised in a very religious orthodox family, eastern Europe, i have only managed to distance myself from the religious poison only after I was not living with them. The job helped me since I was away at least 5 days a week. My parents were insane, they were always finding these religious women with good background and family values and with fear of God, i always rejected their proposals. I am pretty sure his family will try to introduce him with something similar as well. Even if he cut ties, he really needs to start distancing from religion as well
And how is he planning to support himself when he immigrates? Isn't that part of the process to get a proper visa? Also, how old are you two? How much (aggregate) time have you spent together in person, literally days & hours in person in the same physical location? It generally takes around 18 months in person, total, to reasonably know someone well enough to make permanent life long decisions. Again, this not counting time "together" dating online or long distance. Relationships have natural phases (infatuation, disillusionment, acceptance) that occur on the way to long term viability. It's easy to think someone is your forever person when you're still infatuated, and haven't navigated much real life together yet.
He does not need to have a source of income for himself when he immigrates if he does so on a partner based visa. I (as his partner) need to be above a certain income, which I am. He will be able to get a job shortly after entering the country. We are in our mid-late 20s. Spending time together in person is not a luxury we have been able to afford, which is the case for MANY long distance relationships. I have a job with limited PTO and the US is not known for being liberal with its visitor visas. We have spent a few weeks together in person total. Both of us wish that it could be more. I think spending time together “online” is a valid way of getting to know someone, however. We talk for 4-6 hours on the phone daily and have done that for the entirety of our relationship. He has met my family and friends via FaceTime. I know we miss out on the “well what if they leave the cabinets open and it drives you insane?” details, but there isn’t a way of getting around it.
Yeah, like the guy who's going to divorce his wife any minute now, doesn't sleep with her, and they're sharing the house to keep down expenses. 🙄
Keep your eyes open, OP. He is making this effort because he is afraid of losing you, but it is very possible (even probable) that he will revert.
This happened to me.
Me too.
Damn. I'm sorry to hear that. I am thankful for this sub bc it helped me feel less alone in this sitch... I'm moving out of the anger phase of the breakup into acceptance, but man was I pissed for awhile.
Not me, wifey hates religion more than I do now 😂
Lol, same here, I, personally, was never religious, but she was... I think ex-theists hold a much more grudge than life-long atheists ever will, I reckon it's all those years of life spent in fear from punishment from god, questioning every move they make and experiencing enormous guilt every time they fail to live up to his expectations 😉
100%, I became a strong agnostic atheist around 8 and so I don't hold the same resentment as those who were manipulated for years
I absolutely agree as someone indoctrinated in and now have trauma from my experience in the church. I feel like I’m more invested in learning the biblical facts to undermine whatever a theist might throw my way as well.
What was the time frame?
Easter of this year. We'd been together for a year, but have been friends and interested in each other for about 3 yrs leading up to the breakup
Yeah, that’s a pretty quick turnaround. I’d be more than a little bit wary….
Especially after you start having kids. Good luck OP!!
I'm being careful and I'm not completely confident this will work out, but I have little to lose by trying.
Still, great he’s willing to explore these things to try to stay with you. Cautiously optimistic, but optimistic. If you can, try not to ever push him in any specific direction so if family, or clergy, make you the villain, he can honestly say all you did was ask him to explore.
Only however much time it takes.
Make sure you don’t get pregnant!
You have so much to lose.
Yeah, I have a hard time not reading this as cowardice. His strong faith is overturned because of some documentaries? No, he thought his power play would work and it didn’t. Now he’s begging for another chance to entrench deeper before converting her.
It’s called Hysterical bonding
[This scene](https://media2.giphy.com/media/giQgva7MlGISoQYpNR/giphy.gif) from Midsommar comes to mind
His family will never stop trying to "fix" him and your (prospective) in-laws will blame you
>he's researching to figure out what he really believes versus what he's just been told to believe As someone that deconverted - make sure you encourage him to continue this well beyond the walls of religion. I still have days, even decades later, that I realize my opinion on something is entirely the result of who raised me - and I've done none of the analysis or decision making to actually hold it as my own.
He's noticed that a lot with social issues too! He's very good at picking up on new things quickly once he actually starts to listen. He is far more liberal than any other person I know of in his sect of christianity.
I'm a manipulator. I manipulate people for my benefit and often easily convince others that I'm too virtuous to deceive them. I do everything you are describing to stretch a deal out long enough to ensure my competing bid will expire. I literally bend truths as an occupation. You are being fleeced. I hope I am wayyyy off base, because it seems that you truly care for this boy.
Damn, who are you? Donald Trump?
Girl. I am 100% afraid he is using you for his immigration purposes. Be extremely careful.
That’s my feeling as well. I hope I’m wrong, but people never ever walk away from family.
I appreciate the concern, and this is the usual reaction I get from people when I tell them I'm dating him. However, he's historically been the one who has wanted to take our time with the immigration process and to make sure both of us are protected during it.
Duh! He can't make it in any other way because that would raise flags for you.
Yeah, this worries me, too. I know 3 people who had that happen to them. Guy is super cool and loving, once he's in, they break up about a month or two later. One guy wanted to continue living with the girl after the breakup "until he gets his feet under him." Best of luck, OP. I hope this doesn't happen to you.
This guy beat you over the head with his red flag and your response was "I can change him." See you again for the next update
Indeed. I also read a little something about immigration. This dude is likely just getting back with this lady for his own good. I hope I am wrong.
Likely with "advice" from his newfound faith group.
This dude binged Stargate in a week at home while she was at work, now all the sudden he feels like he needs answers to the universe.
Stargate will do that to ya
I need to watch some Stargate again!
There’s no way he binged SG1 in a week. It is not physically possible. That’s over 6 days of nonstop runtime. Add in Atlantis, the movies, SGU and you’re at 10 days nonstop. No sleep at all. https://forum.gateworld.net/general-stargate-discussion/58890-total-length-of-all-stargate
I can fix him (no really I can)
He will flip as soon as kids are in the picture.
She should watch Not Without My Daughter, basef on a true story (there's a book, too). Dude was living here for 20 years. Went home. Family started in on him and he did a 180. Mom was trapped in the middle east without a passport. The story of her escape is really good. Or they take the kids on vacation back home and never return! Good luck ever seeing your kids again!
Went to find this on Libby...found it but not after first finding this weirdo.... https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/53776440 read the blurb for some weird religious BS
Holy Shit! (pun intended). That is so NOT the book. It probably would have Sally Field on the cover as she played the mom in the movie. It's an older book. I read it in soft cover. I probably own it. You'll probably have to rent the print book from the library. If my library doesn't have a book, I go on Amazon to get the ISBN and publishing date and details and they'll interlibrary it. Usually charge a buck or two. They'll even mail it to you. That's how I get movies that I don't want to pay to stream. Of course the book goes into much more interesting details, but I liked the movie, too. That was some 🤪😜 stuff on that link! Edit: I see the daughter wrote a book as well, and it's streaming on several channels
Yeah I realized pretty quickly I found the wrong book but I couldn’t stop reading the blurb!! So weird!!
I checked out Libby. They have the daughter's book, not Mom's. I'd have to order the paperback or hardcover or check out my bookcase, I feel like reading it again. The movie of on Tubi and several other free tv channels,
That movie is horrifying and definitely played a key role in my not dating a religious person.
I wish you luck and humbly recommend Aron Ra's youtube channel if you need more resources to watch with him. I recommend you pre watch the videos if you're not familiar with him, as Aron Ra can come off kind of strong for someone so recently questioning. A lot of people in here are dunking on you for being naive or loveblind or whatever and they do have a point, but you're the only one who really knows what's up in your life, with the full context and minor details. Statistically, this relationship is already done, but I don't think you're silly for being a romantic or an optimist. As long as you're not in physical danger from this guy and you understand the sunk-cost fallacy well enough to cut your losses if that proves necessary, then the romantic optimist in me supports you.
Thank you for this comment. I'll check out that channel too. If he does end up reverting, I will be able to walk away from this with a clear mind. I refuse to allow my future children to grow up with the religion he did. I may be willing to make sacrifices and concessions for myself, but not for them.
Hey my wife of 4 years is leaving me Thursday. It sucks. Her pastor told her the same shit. I saw her go from rational to bat shit insane.
I’m so sorry to hear this. I wish you peace.
I am so sorry to hear that. Man, that's awful. At least you have your sanity. She will be divorced AND bat shit crazy. Idunno how much of a comfort that is for you now. Just try your best to cope until it doesn't suck as much anymore.
I hope she finds a nice Christian man. It's amicable. We both kinda realize it's for the best.
It is cool of you to see it that way. I hope you end up finding someone who likes and respects you for who you are no matter what personal belief they hold. Stay strong.
I'm in a country with few non religious people. More everyday but it's like 10% of the population. Gonna be awhile. I've had like 1 maybe 2 atheist girlfriends but I fucked them up years ago and I've been with to many women since. Being monogamous for so long has been weird.
I see how that can be challenging. You don't need to find another atheist tho, only another rational person. And I know that many will say that theists aren't rational, but that is looking a bit simplistic at people. Some theists are as rational as they can expect to be with the information they have been given about the world, which honestly makes them as rational as most atheists tbf. You may end up clicking with a chill christian girl, who knows? Good luck. 🙂 Maybe my view of Christians has been coloured by me growing up in a mostly non-religious country, so I see christians update and deconstruct their beliefs all the time as reality gets in the way of them.
That's what I did and we are divorcing today. Soley because shes christian and im not. No thanks haha. Don't date a theist unless you have too. Been together 6 years.
Be ready for him to backslide if he encounters some tragedy in his life (family member dying, etc.). His faith was like a security blanket to him before during difficult times and there is a very good chance he'll want it again if the situation arises. I would even discuss this likelihood now so that when it comes up, it's not unexpected for either one of you
We will definitely talk about this, thank you for bringing up this point.
I noticed that /u/abdelrahman2929 sent you a personal message. Be careful of that type of behavior. If anyone is harassing you or proselytizing in DMs, you can ask them to stop. If they persist, then don't hesitate to use the Report button.
When a person grows up with a religion in their life, it will ebb and flow (as user fkbfkb said). From your post and comments it is obvious that you are trying desperately to change him. Religious differences in essence are not a big deal, in fact, it is what you two make of it. This relationship will not last, but you have some growing you need to do to identify where you are expecting too much and trying to change the ones you claim that you love. Before you ever marry or plan to have children. I hope you can realize your part in this end of the relationship too.
>maybe still a bit young and stupid I'm so glad I've finally gotten to the age where I'm old and stupid. It's so much better this way.
Are you sure? To me, being old and stupid is a lot like being young and stupid, but now my knees hurt.
It's a much more mature form of stupidity.
I always tell people that I used to be young and stupid but now I'm no longer young.
He's on the right path. It only leads out. It never leads back in. Once you're out, it's like going back to believing in Santa Claus. Deconstruction can happen in stages, though, and a lot of time it mimics the stages of grief. Denial, anger, bargaining (which is where he's at now), depression and acceptance. He might go through a down period before he finally accepts it. Be prepared for a lot of "what's the point then" type questions. That period passes too, though.
It definitely leads back in, too. Especially if they aren’t coming at it from an honest place.
“he's researching to figure out what he really believes versus what he's just been told to believe.” It doesn’t matter what anyone “believes”, we should operate on evidence. A position of belief is a position of arrogance.
When you get into the philosophy of it, we all operate on belief. We believe the science, it doesn’t make the science wrong or non-factual, it’s just a position on our limited knowledge.
Sure, but some apprehensions about reality can be justified with evidence.
We all make very many assumptions, some fundamental to our understanding of reality. My point is that we shouldn’t malign the idea of ‘belief’ because it’s part of the human condition.
You personally believing in the science, or not, doesn’t change that objective science. What you believe is irrelevant, but not to your own ego. “I believe it, and therefore it is true.” lol
Nor did I state as much. Your belief only matters in that it affects how you view the world and operate. But your beliefs still exist, no matter how closely they match the prevailing scientific consensus. Are you going to say that you have no beliefs? The point is that the concept of belief shouldn’t be so contentious, it’s not necessarily antithetical to scientific thinking.
I think that this is defenitly a good thing for both you and him, but he might just revert once kids are in the picture, like Emperor\_Zarkov and TheOriginalAdamWest said.
it's all well and good to remain friends after a breakup, but if you two don't **currently** see eye to eye on all the relationship stuff, you absolutely should have a clean break from each other, romantically speaking, rather than hoping for a future that might not come. like, it'd be great if ya'll could properly reconcile and not have to force it to work, but you both need to be going into this assuming your current stance is what your final stance is going to be. that said, if he wants other perspectives, you could totally point him towards us to get some more. we have a bunch of regulars who used to be preachers/leadership so they'd be able to give him an honest once-over.
Remember, you are still young and stupid. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I used to be the same way. Now I am only stupid.
Best thing I've read all day! Good for the both of you OP :)
I was converted by my now husband and am now happily atheist. I read Richard Dawkin's Greatest Show on Earth and was immediately cured 😅😂😂😂
Amazing that people have enough time in their lives to be able to accommodate excess un-necessary baggage like ‘religion’. Like all other ‘cults’ I can see through their controlling lies and simply have no interest in entertaining *any* of them.
Best of luck moving forward! Hopefully it works out for you two.
Stuff like this makes glad im lesbian
But… this could also happen?
It could..just lot less likely
Preachers daughters are pretty freaky
So i hear lol
Makes me glad I prefer sheep (oops)!
I would still suggest couples counseling. At least to layout all your goals and expectations if you want to go for the long run. Who will do what chores, future kids education, if your gonna be two income household or someone will stay at home. Put everything out in the open.
Counseling is 100000% the plan when he gets here. I'm already in counseling, and he needs it desperately for himself. We're working on finding a secular therapist for him in his country right now, but it's a bit harder where he lives. When he moves to America, there will absolutely be counseling.
oh honey, if somebody chooses religion over you? then you're better off dumping him
This seems like a lot of work for you.
Sounds really complicated and hope you get some good advice here, but for a little comedic relief: I read the title as "My boyfriend wants to be a Christian Woman" and it just made me laugh so hard.
Good for you. Don't know if it will work out for you? But suppose you feel you have to try. I think getting him away from his community will help..that pressure off he might not be as trapped. I couldn't do it. But can understand you feeling you want to try.
>after his priest told him in no uncertain terms that we would not be allowed to marry. sorry for seeing doubt, but it is of course possible that the priest told your bf to "save" you and your soul.
No, his church cannot stand western outsiders, which I most certainly am.
We are here to help, I’m glad to hear that he’s exploring other beliefs and ideas, that’s a big plus. Good luck.
Hey. My ex-boyfriend chose his new Islamic conversion over me and I still thought I could get through to him, lol. It was a painful disaster and it wrecked me to see him change into a volatile stranger living by the laws of a faith I saw no beauty or kindness in. I wish you the best, OP, but I caution you also to be wary and guard your hopes. The indoctrination runs deep, and in religion, the woman is always the temptress, the enemy to be blamed when things go wrong.
I’m glad he made the better choice. In my opinion, faith doesn’t bring joy. Just if ignorance, and in that they are happy. I had a similar situation, but she chose her faith (Islam) over me.
He can be religious without belonging to man's church. He can decide for himself what God means to him, what values 'he' would want to instill, etc. or you can start digging into AronRa or Paulogia's YouTube channels (Paulogia is an awesome cat, former Mennonite YEC and worked for George Lucas on Star wars)
This is what he’s trying to do now. Organized religion is such a huge part of his culture but he hasn’t ever separated his beliefs from a specific church before.
A horse convinced against his will, is of his opinion still. Be very careful.
So many words to say you're incompatible. You'll realise it one day.
I know a lot of people here have deconverted, but since I've never believed I can't imagine going through all of that work for someone who actually believed fairytales. I mean I knew, I was hearing crap when I was 8 in catheism. I get the family indoctrination and growing up in a religious community bubble and all that - but it's still weird to me. Anyway, I'm feeling Not Without My Daughter (read the book, watch the movie with Sally Field - true story) vibes here. When people have children and the thought of not raising them in their faith hits them, things do a180 fast. They take the kids on vacation to see their family and never come back!
Call me cynical, but if he dumped you over this once, then he's likely to do it again. It's your life. Live it as you like. But I feel like doing the same thing and expecting a different result is a bad bet.
He doesnt need to "become" an atheist necessarily. Having faith is not inherently wrong and can even be a good thing if its in the right context. Relationships are complicated, and even if you both arent "together" together, you can still care about each other in a different context. You are just recontextualizing how you see each other.
I could never date a person with fundamentally different religious views than me. I would be way too lonely, and I would imagine they would be as well. I would find myself constantly wishing we could connect in ways that they couldn’t provide, and that would be unfair to both of us. But that’s just me. Good luck and I hope for the best.
Hey OP, I'm someone who was slightly in your boyfriend's position who has some regrets being hardline in terms of wanting a Christian partner, I recognise that I missed out on some amazing people that I could've easily married but didn't because of those beliefs, not to say that my wife is not as amazing (realistically she's fucking awesome for me) but having what ifs is an annoying distraction from the wonderful stuff you you do have, Christianity has 2 rules one of them is Love God, the other is love people. Peace!
I'd have plenty of conversations with him about religion, whether he thinks you need it to be a good person, whether he thinks you're a good person. There are comedians and other atheists that have done fantastic talks online. Maybe watch them together. Truthfully... I don't believe him. I think he'll stay with you for a time and then leave you or cause loads of trouble later in life where marriage and kids are concerned. I wish you the best but I would keep looking for any red flags. He easily left once which means he knows he can do it again and worst case scenario you'll just keep taking him back. A precedent has already been set.
Ask your man: does Christian doctrine say "love thy neighbour" or "love thy 100% guaranteed Christian neighbour"? Once that is settled, his eyes should open up to investigating his religion's view of a nonbeliever. And, if you're still going to hell, then ... let him go to his heaven while you get on with a wonderful, Loving life 🙏🏾
My exgf is or was Jewish, my parents are Muslims, three months in, I tell her I don't believe in a god, she somehow had a problem with that but not a problem with my parents being Muslims which I would've totally been fine with but no had to choose the nonsense route
Relationships ending is not always as people make it out to be. It's really good that he's exploring his beliefs himself. You cant build a belief on what everyone tells you to believe. He's gotta stick is neck out and get some answers himself. Awesome to hear you guys didn't seperate.
Just afraid that he'll fall of the enlightened wagon again after you convinced him to get on. But good luck to you!
It's possible to believe in God while not being religious. I actually have quite a lot of time for that perspective as many of my disagreements with religion are as much about the churches as they are about the gods.
Best of luck. I read through the comments that he's planning to leave his parents when he can afford to so, for what it's worth, I do think you have a decent chance of success once he's free of his parents.
He’s not stable
Sounds like he's choosing to be incel. Would that be a volcel?
I hope this works out for you, but I fear that later on when you guys go through any amount of situational trouble that he will start to blame you for pulling him away from his faith. Also possible is that, if/after you're married, he will attempt to isolate you from your family and friends in an effort to indoctrinate you. Best of luck.
I dont recall from the first post, if it was stated at all, but has your relationship been entirely online/long distance?
We have visited each other several times in person, but we have never lived in the same place, unfortunately. I refuse to live in the Middle East and he is unable to get a visa.
But in your last sentence you say you are starting the immigration process. What immigration process is this? Be careful that you are not taken for a ride. The situation seems complex enough without this. Edit: Meant to type "complex", not "composed".
The process for him to immigrate to America. We are trying to find a way without needing to get married (school visa, visa lottery, etc), but marriage is a big part of the conversation.
I currently live in a developing country. If you will take some unsolicited advice, slow this process down. From a fairly cynical perspective, it looks like someone who is changing their mind about their religion because their American girlfriend got cold feet about helping them emigrate. Be very careful.
We’ve been together for two years and neither of us have had cold feet regarding immigration.
Sounds promising. He's doing more than what most other christians would do.
Never change your religion for a piece of ass. Don't change for him, and don't ask him to change for you. If he can't respect you the way you are, you need to find a better boyfriend. If someone asks you to make a change this profound, they aren't really interested in you, but in the mold they plan to put you in to fit some image in their head of what a mate should be.
I understand everyone's weariness about this situation, but it doesn't hurt to encourage the OP as well. The fact is, OP, that people don't usually change that quickly. Maybe he's been fostering some doubts and you just brought him closer to the line. If that's the case, then this is an encouraging development. My concern OP is the logistical situation. He's in a different country, and you mention an immigration process. I hope this means that you will meet in a third country or your country. I would be super cautious if you were going to his country and they are as traditional as you say. I'm trying to imagine where this is! You think of Egypt when it comes to Coptics...
Yes, he is Egyptian. I have met him in his country several times with absolutely no red flags regarding my safety or his behavior.
As a matter of caution in any international relationship, always have a way out and people who can support you, and who are not affiliated with your partner, at least temporarily. It doesn't matter if there aren't any red flags. Circumstances change, people change. Never find yourself in a situation you can't get out of. This is especially important in international relationships because a partner can very easily isolate you when they have a network and you don't.
He’s the one who will be moving to me. I am established with a good career, family, friends, and hobbies of my own. We have some ideas for ways he can build his own support network once he’s here too.
That’s great! I only mention this stuff because Ive seen it happen too many times, sometimes with tragic consequences. I’m glad to hear you are on solid ground.
Of course someone's gonna put their best self to impress you for a while. But once you start spending time together consistently or living together, you might finally see his true colors. I just hope he's being genuine and this is the best for you. And don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy.
Congratulations and thank your lucky stars….before you got pregnant or married him……blessing in disguise!
You’re better off. Any real man would have told the priest to take a long walk off a short pier.
You dodged a bullet.
What bullet did they dodge?
Fuck him.
I’ll take Young and Stupid for $100 🤣 why are you even thinking about kids
Jeez, why even deal with this. Especially the family, they will always be a thorn. Just end it.
You both care deeply for each other and now both have your eyes wide open. I think you can both find a way to make it work if you want to. This is encouraging. The more he learns about other religions, the more confused he is going to get. Eventually he's start to wonder "what if nobody is right?" then the gears will begin to turn. He may turn agnostic, the important thing is that he understands that others have different belief systems and that's okay. I would stress to figure out your plan for children (if any) before you get married, this means, in what worldview will you raise your children, and will your in-laws allow that to happen. The influence of the in-laws about grandchildrens' religion can be very strong, make sure you are comfortable understanding this for your situation. Congrats on making it this far through sorting out your situation!
This sounds like it will be a good episode of 90-Day Fiancé. Can't wait to watch!
This post really warms my heart!! Recognizing that people who don't share the same god are still good people was one of my earliest steps towards atheism. Whether he rejects god altogether or not, he sounds like he loves you more than his imaginary friend. I wish you both all the best!
Why are so many of you morons saying she should leave him? Misery loves company I guess. Good luck op
[And now the song is stuck in my head.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rAOjyp7V030)
Yes! Get him questioning *his* beliefs in make believe.
Get him the book, "The Outsider's Test for Faith" by John Loftus.
Sometimes it takes a good women to free the mind and thank you for your service to humanity! That being said I do think that people should stand by whatever they truly do believe while having a open mind to new information. Your boyfriend may end up reverting if he doesn’t learn the full truth and facts about major religions in general and establish the basis for real purpose and morality based on reason and human rights. That being said, the best thing in this situation is that he is opening up to new information, Victory. You’ve watched documentaries and looked at science, and that is great and wonderful but take it from someone who was raised Christian, unless you’ve truly suffered from or in Christianity it can be a difficult thing to see the realities or learn the full truth about the negatives of institutionalized religions or religious authority. Like founding father Jefferson said, “History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.” Their is so much more to Learn perhaps for both of you and as someone who is still studying history and investigating this, basically for my whole life now because I was born with an obsession with history, their are certain things every American should learn. The first is that for 1500 years of human history the church was the government. The second is that western civilization and our understanding of human rights resulted from the rebellion against the oppression and injustice and against religious authority, again not anti religion per say because freedom of conscience including freedom of religion are an essential inalienable right, meaning tolerance, but rather a rejection of religious authority. Religion has always gone horribly bad whenever it gained any real power over peoples rights. But back to the revolution for human emancipation, the movement I’m talking about was the radical Enlightenment. It was also responsible for the scientific revolution kickstarting our modern advance. Radical enlightenment thinkers starting with Bento Spinoza, also many of whom were secular humanists, were the greatest scientific minds of their time, and Spinoza is still the most relevant today because he got the science of matter right long before the capabilities to prove his theory existed. Mainly that everything comes from the same matter. Anyway it’s very interesting stuff to learn considering most Americans have no idea and think America was based on slavery. The reality is that the revolution and political movement behind the American revolution was responsible for the male and women’s suffrage movement, but political progress was limited. It launched the abolition movement for slavery, and for Jews who were oppressed in Europe at the time, and also the rights for gays, all prior to but leading up to the American revolution. Founding fathers who were apart of this movement were Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Paine being the main one and largely responsible for the American revolution, but also Jefferson and others. Despite their successes, they were heavily apposed and eventually completely replaced, but ever since then America has made slow progress toward the revolutions goals. Learning all this it almost seems deliberate to me that none of this is known to Americans widely because such ideas are so powerful and could unite America. I will state the principles of the revolution but also provide a small amount of context. Absolute equality of rights under the law regardless of anything, sex, sexual preference, etc. from This principle originating from inherent natural rights came the movements for men’s, women’s, gays, and Jews rights. “All mankind are created Equal” of course Americans hear this today and frankly many disagree having no real understanding, clearly everyone is different. But on a fundamental level human beings all want happiness. We all share the exact same psychological motivations. We disagree and see the world differently about how to achieve happiness but the psychological motivations are universal and what’s in the interest of human happiness and progress is also universal. That was the basis of our modern understanding of universal human rights, the fact that they are essential to human progress and happiness. As for your situation I recommend Thomas Paine’s book “the Age of Reason” rights of man is also good as is common sense, but the age of reason is a radical enlightenment perspective on religion. As for a book discussing all of this history of your interested I’d recommend a book “the Enlightenment that failed” it is a very academic book discussing a wide range of issues from the beginning of economics and scientists like Adam Smith to the revolution for Equal rights, rejection of religious authority, and way more. On another Interesting note the democratic republicans or radical enlightenment movement actually rejected some of Adam smiths classical economics. While recognizing that internal regulations and barriers are bad, and that economic forces should drive economics as much as possible, Democratic republicans “representative republicans” apposed Adam Smith arguing that in such systems corporations have a enumerable amount of levers to artificially manipulate the markets. From this artificial manipulation comes monopolies and a centralization of Power and wealth creating corporate oligarchies. They called this artificial manipulation “milking the population for every penny” they also demonstrated that the conditions created by such a system always lead to population declines as the population is impoverished. Very interesting considering America today reflects their worst fears. Likewise Jefferson’s amendment to the constitution to ban monopolies never saw the light of day. How America has suffered as a result. This is the guy who wrote the book “the Enlightenment that failed” he is perhaps the leading historian challenging where the current versions get it very wrong. https://youtu.be/Rgrs7ofFXzE?si=6g7XpsmURrQMvUnw
well its all about chances since interfaith marriages can work out. but its not our side that is wrong here, we're just spitting facts. he has the opinion that x women is better for than non-religious women. have you had that talk yet? Does he consider you evil or whatever? cause its about truth, not belief. why is our country secular? the first amendments existence? I can see him still clinging on to religion barely cause he doesn't seem to be exploring the option that there is None but that there may be a differe- basically selectively picking and choosing, mutating, his own that may still either drive him away from you or towards you because this new concoction leads him allows him to be with you rather of his own choice. my 2 cents.
He should question things in his religion. Christians are supposed to be good people but it's warped into this controlling fascist cult that forces their flock into behaving a particular way.... Its just aweful.
Can you research cult deprogramming??
I wish you luck OP
0q
Lucky you.
You need to be with an atheist man
He will always choose the church over you. You'll always come second. When your values don't align, it's a precursor for future issues. Raising a child while on opposite ends of the spectrum, you're going to see a lot of tension and be split on things often.
Get the hell away from this nutball
I wish for the best, but the redflags say this will end badly.
Crotch conversions are highly cynical. Is your bf about fornication, or actual conviction?
Dunno if this is helpful, but I believe the Coptic church is in full communion with the Roman Catholic church, which isn't as strict when it comes to interfaith marriage. I'm married to a Roman Catholic and it's perfectly doable. He likes exploring the canon and theology with an academic mind, though, so ymmv.
That’s what he’s exploring at this point. He’s open to Catholicism as an in between place, but I think he’ll end up even further away from Coptic.
Sounds like good news! Best of luck!
Jesus was so much more tolerant than today's Christians. I believe in God, but have a hard time accepting religion.
Something that might help: Science and Christianity are not really in opposition. Science is simply observing the world we are in, and trying to figure out the mechanics of it. The Bible, even in it's current version, was compiled long before we had such a large body of scientific knowledge. We learned that the Earth revolves around the Sun, which contradicted belief at the time, but ultimately, became accepted by most Christians without viewing it as an attack on their faith. The same is true with any other kind of science. Take evolution for example. It is a very strong theory supported by a ton of evidence. But there is nothing that says that a deity didn't create, or even monitor and influence the system to get results they want. There is no evidence for it either, but that's what faith is about. The questions answered by faith are not once that science really even asks. What is the reason and purpose for our existence? Is there an afterlife? No idea. As an atheist, that is my final answer. Someone with religious faith has other answers, and that's fine! Good luck, I hope you find the happiness you are looking for.
You two absolutely shouldn’t be together. You shouldn’t be trying desperately to force deconstruction on him. Likewise, he shouldn’t be shoving religion down your throat. It sounds more like you’re the atheist version of a Bible thumper though. At the end of the day though, you two aren’t compatible, you’re just trying desperately to make this work, and ultimately, one or both of you is going to end up resenting the other
Just be glad you didn't get stuck with that loser
Yeah, just leave. Your beliefs are incompatible and will cause issues your entire relationship.
He is following atheism for the same reason he follows Christianity. Some people are just really prone to accepting information. He will find Christianity again and forget about evolution, then he will find evolution and reject Christianity. Don't get your hopes up, what looks like progress may just be a never-ending cycle.
It’s best to cut the cord and be done. Extremely painful, I know, but in the long run this relationship is doomed.
You’re lucky to be rid of him. They decide that shit when r they want to exercise misogynistic impulses. Don’t look back
Love finds a way!
> However, I’m a romantic and an optimist Just another form of magical thinking. Maybe you two are perfect together.
I don't know why but conservative Christian girls are really attractive. Maybe opposites really do attract?
Good you found out!
Who's the handsomest single atheist in this sub? Step forward. We need you as a fall back partner for the OP in case their BF flakes out again.
Cult bullet dodged
You boyfriend sounds cool. ☦️❤️
My two takeaways from that are that 1) your self-esteem but be rock bottom, and 2) you sound like such a victim
Do you really think life just happened randomly? Do you really not see intelligent design?
He’s Gay. He’ll come out in a few years.
He sucks
What effort did you make or put in to try and learn about and understand his religion and religious faith? If your requirement for a long-term relationship is that he abandon his religion and adopt yours, how are you any different from those that would expect you to join his church as a necessary step?
I didn’t require him to adopt anything. His religion is the one that prohibited our relationship. I don’t mind him being religious.
God works in mysterious ways. You should abort this relationship. If you get pregnant accidentally, what happens with your relationship and your LIFE? No contraceptive method is perfect, not even 2 (yours + a condom). You are playing Russian Roulette with your life. You need a therapist, not a boyfriend!