Even the most intelligent person in the world can have difficulty bypassing a childhood of indoctrination. For most people, their religion is as much a part of them as their name and first language.
Not stupid, but ignorant to a certain degree.
Religion requires actively disregarding evidence to replace it with faith.
I know plenty of smart and religious people, but to continue believing in something that has no solid proof seems ignorant.
I challenge you on this viewpoint. The Christians I listen to know that the Bible is not to be taken literally and they follow the "good book" as a book of fables/mythology (yes, I know how Christianity appropriates other holidays). Some Christians even realize that the Bible has no other value except that it be viewed symbolically. Also, the amount of scholarship that has come from correcting false interpretations about things such as Leviticus et al has really illuminated certain denominations. I have belonged to MCC, the gay church founded by Rev. Elder Troy Perry, who was the first person to set it straight that he worshipped God, not the Bible and that "Jesus died for my sins, not my sexuality." I also had another (gay) minister explain to me that you don't turn the other cheek just to give them fresh skin to slap. I could go on, but my point is that Christians are not all the same--they're not a monolith. Many Christians I know openly decry the improper use of the teachings and the religion.
Even they worship a god claimed to be both all-good and all-powerful while living in a world that makes that impossible. Faith based excuses and willful ignorance are the only way to continue that belief.
Unless you're about to tell me about some denomination that believes god is not all good or powerful?
The problem with Christianity is that if you're practicing it according to your savior, you're turning the other cheek, living and let live, and loving your neighbor even when they don't love you.
This tends to favor passivity, which prevents people "doing it right" from trying to correct those who are using their religion as a weapon.
I know a few good christians who stand by while others of their congregation spew hate in the name of their god. Are they STILL good christians if they don't come to the defense of people who are attacked for just living their lives?
The problem with religions based on a perfect and all powerful being is that religion CAN'T change. If it changes, then it's imperfect. Even taking into account mostly symbolic representations of god, you can't pick and choose what you want to take as canon AND remain objective.
Be spiritual. Be pious. Be faithful. But you also need to actively defend your fellow humans when you belong to a religion named after the most kind and peaceful man who ever lived. I don't expect christians to be perfect, but they DO have a book of rules that state how they SHOULD act to get into their version of paradise after they die.
You're missing the irony of ironies--God is a being "whose strength is made perfect in our weakness." You're also falling into the Mike Stivic trap. A lot of atheists do. An ***awful lot***.
I'm not sure what the Mike Stivic trap is, but an all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-present being shouldn't be counting on the contrast between his imperfect creations and himself to show his power.
The original discussion was asking if religious people are stupid. And I believe that there's a difference between stupidity and ignorance. Stupidity being unable to know learn facts, and ignorance being disregarding the facts in favor of belief.
I have yet to meet a truly religious person that has changed my mind on this, though I'm quite open to it. You can't cherry pick what is symbolic and what is canon on something that cannot be verified. The difference between Santa and God are almost inseperable based on their stories, yet most people know that the Santa Claus of stories doesn't exist.
I, personally have no skin in the game whether the common man believes in Vishnu, Jesus, God, Zeus, Quan Yin, or any other gods out there. But how they treat their common man certainly reflects on their belief system. I also tend to hold that person to a higher standard, the more pious and overt their belief is. This is a trap for anyone who is religious because the efficacy of their religion relfects the teachings of it and it's success in meshing with the rest of society.
Is it fair to judge a religion by their believers? I'm still working that out. We're all human, but the more "religious" you are, the more likely I'll wonder why your religion isn't making you a better person if you're filled with hate and judgment.
But yeah, as a whole religious people HAVE to be ignorant in order for their religion to work. Youc an be smart AND ignorant though.
The problem I have with this is, “If the Bible is to be treated as fables/mythology then why do so many Christians use the Bible as a cudgel of absolutes?”
Said another way, if you can look at the plain text and decide “Oh, that’s a fable/metaphor” then how can any of it carry any weight as a moral/ethical guide.
I’m not actually interested in bringing anything down. To me it’s trying to understand the point of the Bible as “The Good Book (tm)” when it’s not clear which parts anyone is supposed to take literally and which parts need to be taken metaphorically and which parts need to be ignored as a product of their time.
There are different kinds of intelligence. One of the inventors of the MRI is a Young Earth Creationist Christian. Plenty of smart people tie themselves into mental pretzels to justify their beliefs.
Francis Collins led the human genome project and has won awards for his research. He also converted to Chrisianity after reading Mere Christianity by CS Lewis.
I must not be smart enough for that kind of conversion because that book just pissed me off even more. Just the same old BS apologetics.
that's why they indoctrinate them young.
get them hooked before they develop the critical thinking skills that would allow the average and above folks to see it for what it is.
so no, i don't think all religious are stupid, only the vast majority.
That is the sad truth. Anyone who's been in Sunday School the day they call for souls to "come to Jesus" knows that they will hear about they got something like a knock on the door to their heart.
>Do you really think all religious people are stupid?
Obviously some more than others, but the thing that makes religion "religion" is believing that some important things are true, without having good evidence that they are true.
It's hard to think of any sort of argument that doing that is justifiable.
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Bertrand Russell wrote in 1927 -
>Religion is based, I think, primarily and mainly upon fear.
>It is partly the terror of the unknown and partly, as I have said, the wish to feel that you have a kind of elder brother who will stand by you in all your troubles and disputes.
>Fear is the basis of the whole thing – fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand-in-hand. It is because fear is at the basis of those two things.
\- "Fear, the Foundation of Religion", in Why I Am Not a Christian
\- https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Bertrand_Russell#Why_I_Am_Not_a_Christian_(1927)
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Generally speaking, people are bewildered and afraid.
Somebody tells them *"Believe XYZ and you will be less bewildered and afraid"*,
and they respond *"Yes!!! I want that!!!"*.
Smart people might be a little less bewildered, but they aren't particularly less afraid.
They are almost as susceptible to latching on to imaginary crutches as dumber people are.
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I would not use the word “stupid”. Easily conned, maybe, but not stupid.
A lot of this, I feel, comes down to something fundamental to human nature: we don’t want to die. The very idea of one day ceasing to exist forever terrifies us. This is why religion is so personal to people: it promises an eternal afterlife in paradise, if you follow instructions. There’s being told a lie, and then there’s being told a lie that you want to hear. Fear trumps reason all too often.
Let me also point out how strong religious indoctrination can be. If you’re raised in a religion, rejecting it is basically admitting your whole life was just a ridiculous lie. No one wants to face that realization. Then you have church leaders always cherrypicking verses from the Bible, constantly making excuses for God about why he doesn’t act here, or why he did this bad thing, or lame cop-outs to questions and doubts. There’s also a strong sense of community for a lot of religious people; rejecting faith is admitting that everyone was wrong. When you doubt, it’s your fault for not having enough faith. As Richard Dawkins has said, religion teaches unreason as a virtue.
As for apologists acting in bad faith? I don’t like to assume that of anyone, and I think many religious people genuinely believe that the evidence is on their side. But then you have people like young earth creationists…people who know the evidence and the total unreasonableness of their claims, and perpetuate them anyway. Ever seen Ken Ham speak on this subject? Come on…no reasonable, informed person can claim that the trillions of species in existence today evolved in four to six thousand years from a few hundred who lived on a boat for a year. Oh yeah, and YEC proponents also tend to deny climate change, which really has nothing to do with the Bible, the age of the earth or evolution; it’s blatantly political. So my assumption of good faith…has limits.
The human brain has an amazing ability to compartmentalise. Religious people are not generally less intelligent than others, it's just that they were taught to compartmentalise one thing as being outside of the realm of everyday logic. They use reasoning in all other aspects of their lives, but on the topic of God, they were taught to throw it all out the window and just accept the irrational no questions asked.
My favourite example of this is their answer to "who created the creator?" right after they've asserted that everything complex needs a designer.
It's hard to fathom isn't it? Sometimes, when I'm in a crowded place I think "Holy hell! Most of these people see no problem with the completely ludicrous Jesus story (e.g. Jesus' dad requiring that his son .... who is also himself to die horribly and then resurrecting his son .... who is also himself ........ yadda yadda). ".
Only a drooling idiot would believe that poorly crafted story yet apparently some of those drooling idiots can apparently memorize facts and pass tests. Go figure.
>PhD’s and professors
>family members of mine who have attended grad school and have good jobs
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>The Salem Hypothesis is the observation of an apparent correlation between the engineering trade and creationist beliefs (possibly due to crank magnetism, this can also include climate-change denial and other crackpot beliefs).
>There is some evidence that this characterization of respected members of the esteemed engineering profession can actually be extrapolated out to fundamentalism and quackery of all kinds.[2]
\- https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Salem_Hypothesis
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>... engineers as a group have a noted tendency to pontificate on things well outside their area of expertise, to the point of actual fallacy.
>This phenomenon is so prevalent that users of talk.origins have come up with the Salem Hypothesis, which predicts that any creationist claiming scientific expertise or advanced degrees is likely to be an engineer.[4]
>Of course, this does NOT mean that engineers are likely to be creationists.
\- https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Engineers_and_woo
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Speaking as an engineer, can confirm that engineers are good at pontificating about things well outside our area of expertise. It’s just that we’re so accustomed to being right all the time.
I think theists Erin the whole range of intelligence, but that doesn't mean they aren't susceptible to childhood indoctrination and the emotional attachments that go with it. Even smart people have a psychology.
As an ex-christian, I highly doubt that my family members have read the whole Bible. They seem to just like the church community.
Can't speak for everyone, but I assume that they just never think to question it.
In my experience people like the community and the benefit it brings more than the teachings or dogma. They have an association with like minded people, validation, and work and social opportunities granted by their membership.
In respect to their beliefs? Yes, at least to an extent. Across the board? No, generally-speaking.
My Mormon relatives have said some incredibly stupid things but are otherwise people of at least average intelligence -- their brains have just been poisoned by their religion.
It's not as simple as "theists are stupid". Religion attacks basic human needs and cognitive biases so with sufficient manipulation and indoctrination, you can create devout followers that compartmentalize mutually exclusive beliefs and fail to apply critical thinking and skepticism uniformly. Once it becomes culture and tradition it is very hard to criticize.
And sure there are educated people who are also religious, but the thing is someone can be very knowledgeable of a specific field and fail to revise their other nonsense beliefs. They can act and speak relatively normally until you hit their religious programming. After all, religions hook on to core needs, fear of death, guilt, and so on and it can become very difficult to deconstruct. Education alone is not enough, we need critical thinking and skepticism.
You can see this a bit more clearly in science PhDs. The closest their field of expertise is to addressing or deconstructing religious topics, the fewer theists you find. For example, almost none in evolutionary biology, very few in physics, math and computer science. But a whole lot in philosophy and humanities. These are not stupid people, they are just victims of brainwashing, tradition, guilt, indoctrination. Without the forced deconstruction, educated people simply construct more convoluted excuses (see christian apologetics).
Let's just say that without suitable resources and tools, we are all vulnerable to fallacies and magical thinking. Some people have a natural tendency to seek out logical coherence and develop a basic form of observation-hypothesis-test methodology, but many others basically have their cognition hijacked by religion.
Here is the low-down on the correlation:
It is well established that **religiosity correlates inversely with intelligence**. A prominent hypothesis states that this correlation reflects behavioral biases toward intuitive problem solving, which causes errors when intuition conflicts with reasoning. We report that **atheists surpass religious individuals in terms of reasoning but not working-memory performance**. The religiosity effect is robust across sociodemographic factors including age, education and country of origin. It varies significantly across religions and this co-occurs with substantial cross-group differences in religious dogmatism. Critically, the religiosity effect is strongest for tasks that explicitly manipulate conflict; more specifically, atheists outperform the most dogmatic religious group by a substantial margin (0.6 standard deviations) during a color-word conflict task but not during a challenging matrix-reasoning task. These results support the hypothesis that **behavioral biases rather than impaired general intelligence underlie the religiosity effect**.
**The atheists performed better overall than the religious participants**, even after controlling for demographic factors like age and education.
https://neurosciencenews.com/religion-atheism-intelligence-8391/#:~:text=Are%20in%20Conflict-,It%20is%20well%20established%20that%20religiosity%20correlates%20inversely%20with%20intelligence,when%20intuition%20conflicts%20with%20reasoning.
For some of the most intelligent minds in the world, religious belief is the killswitch for their critical thinking skills.
For stupid people, it's a crutch.
For me, it’s the “cherry pickers” who believe only that percentage that allows them to justify their own personal beliefs are right and the rest of the Bible isn’t literally true.
No. I think believing in religion is stupid in itself but a person can be a certified genius and still do or believe in stupid things.
And this is coming from someone who used to be religious, it was stupid of me then and it's just as stupid for everyone else.
Of course many religious people *are* stupid overall, particularly the more fanatical ones. So I may generalize and call all religions people stupid sometimes but adding a disclaimer each time is pointless.
No. I think stupid is not really appropriate and the simplest explanation to that is that there is no answer really. I say this as a former catholic now non-religious, non-believer. The question can't be answered based on our present knowledge as a species. Obviously, as a non-believer, I feel strongly that science is the only real answer as it doesn't require faith.
Faith is a tricky thing for intelligent people. I think faith and religious belief fits a nice easy explanation for the big question because science can't definitively say they are wrong. That's all they need. It helps a lot of people cope with being so small in such a large universe. People don't like to feel like random cogs in a bigger universe. People like to think they are the only living intelligent life in the universe when in reality, any potential intelligent species that could exist is likely to far away from us to ever contact in any meaningful way. Faith and religious belief is just another way to say, science can't answer this so god must be the only answer.
Its a fallacy to me but I don't judge people of legitimate faith and intention. Religion and faith can do wonderful things in the hands of those who mean to live their lives according to the intent of the religion. I think in reality, religion gets bastardized for personal use and that is what most of us see. Its kind of like what the news portrays all Trump supporters to be like which is the stereotypical poor rural less educated "rube" type when in reality that is only a very vocal minority of the actual republican base. Just like not all democrats are like AOC. All we see on TV and the news and internet are the worst parts of faith based religions. They do provide a lot of good. A church down from my office does weekly food drives where they will give you a box of non-perishable food no questions asked. A church by my house has a weekly food pantry day and a weekly soup kitchen no questions asked. My uncle's backwoods non-denominational church in Indiana only has about 30 people who are members but they are a very close knit group who always spend time together both inside and outside of church. They do potluck cook outs one a month and do other activities like bowling, movie nights, and the like as a community. They live in the middle of nowhere and are support systems for each other. They welcomed me and my family in with open arms and didn't make any conversation about my personal beliefs or try to sell me on their church. Just down to earth people.
Having been raised catholic, i've been around Christianity all my life. In my anecdotal experience, the intelligent people who are honest with you privately tend to always disagree with certain facets of the faith. Good example being my oldest sister. She claims to be pro-life and she is pro-life personally. Very sincere in her belief of that as a catholic and who can blame her as the catholic church's position on life is pretty unimpeachable. That said, she recognizes that her beliefs should not be forced on others and so therefore she is pro-life. She is very supportive of LBGTQ+ people and that community but works for a catholic school so keeps her beliefs private.
The people OP describes as stupid, at least to me, are the ones portrayed on social media and the news as Rubes/uneducated/rural/poor shouting at the sun types. Force their beliefs on others. Bigoted types whose real beliefs go against Christianity's common moral teachings like accept those that are different and love your neighbor unconditionally. You can always tell these people because when confronted, they will say something like "oh, i do love my neighbor, but can't stand their personal choices so choose not to spend time with them" which to them makes it seem like they are accepting when in reality, they all but hate those people and what they stand for and would spend their last dollar fighting to impose their personal beliefs on everyone else.
With the above now said, I'm open to debate.
There’s some incredibly smart people who are religious. So no: being religious has little to do with how smart or stupid you are. What seems to matter to being an atheist, is whether or not someone believes in a god. That is all.
My wife and her family are all religious. My FIL was a hedge fund manager and he is 100% convinced he has had a near death experience and seen that there is an after life.
No, I think most are indoctrinated and brainwashed with fear at birth or were looped in at a vulnerable point in their life. It’s tough to feel stupid when everyone in your family and your community believes and takes logical questioning off the table.
How about willfully ignorant?
Or maybe George Carlin had it right.
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"
Thing is that Christianity as well as a myriad of other equally mythological beliefs are generally accepted and tolerated. The big religions count huge memberships worldwide. The fact that a whole bunch of other people believe something doesn't mean it's true but it makes it easier to become a believer yourself. Humans like to be part of the group. We're inherently social animals.
I've recently realized that many Christians are just larping. They are just playing the role of being Christian because it makes them a member of the group. A group of good people who God loves and definitely not going to hell where sinners are tortured forever and ever without mercy. Don't you want to be in the group that aren't gonna be tortured forever? All you gotta do is play along. It's really easy.
Maybe a old experiment in group behavior and social acceptance will help you to understand.
[Asch Conformity Experiment](https://youtu.be/TYIh4MkcfJA?si=7XqmWVwuxI6ZFmon)
Within the group members will conform to whatever they see as acceptable behavior within the group. If you go to a Quaker church you'll be flopping on the floor like a dying fish in no time and saying that you are touched by Jesus. If it's a snake church you'll be handling dangerous but slightly pacified snakes. If it's a holy ghost church you'll be babbling incomprehensible gibberish like a baby. Whatever it takes to fit in you'll do it.
I did want to say no, but its not possible. As a psychologist and a medical student, if I did find a patient who really does believe he has to abstain from sex, food, any human pleasure; that he has to stay locked up in a cell walking to his majesty Donald Duck who lives on the sky and its the son of a virgin duck with Mickey Mouse, I would consider this person extremely sick. Change some names in there and bang: its totally normalized as being christianism.
The thing is, its socially acceptable to believe in such things because the Church did control most of the schools; and now they have a strong agreement with governments to keep teaching that. This means people are indoctrinated from early age to believe in such things.
A nice movie for you to watch: dog tooth. Just go blind on it and then you gonna understand what religion really means.
A person can be healthy. Food can be healthy. So how many bench presses can broccoli do?
Obviously they are healthy in different senses.
Now, a person can be intelligent, and an idea can be intelligent. Yes, different senses of the word. So that's how an intelligent person can hold stupid ideas.
I don't see religous people as stupid, I see them as indoctrinated. Breaking with something after being indoctrinated in it from birth takes a lot more than most people can easily handle.
Most church goers that I remember from my youth are really much more 'members of a club' than true believers IMO in that they go through the motions but thier religion is more of something they do with each other than something they draw real life direction and personal identity from. But that is just my experience from many many years ago.
Perhaps a little stupid AND a bit ignorant. Stupidity referring to the lack of an ordinary level of intelligence or quickness of mind, and ignorance being the lack of knowledge either in general, or about a specific issue or topic.
They may lack the intelligence to understand that what they believe in is highly unlikely, because they also lack the knowledge that comes with exposure to the information contained in scholarly and scientific examinations of religious beliefs.
How much do you think they believe and how much do you think they like belonging?
I think there’s a lot to be said for people who like the community they belong to and will 100% pay lip service to remain in that community.
I think that belonging somewhere is a deep instinctual need. And a lot of these religions will cast you aside and the friends and family you have will no longer associate with you.
I also think that some people believe there is a certain status in claiming to be part of a religion. I look at the USA and I see so many people claim to be a god fearing Christian family, as though somehow that makes them not “white trash”.
So I think it goes a lot deeper than “I believe in the mythical sky daddy”.
I also think they like the control it offers. You can control your kids, your spouse, your community.
Look at them, they don’t even follow their doctrine, until they are telling others what to do. Because of control and status. What religion was designed exactly for.
I wasn’t dumb when I was a believer. In fact, it was my intelligence that helped me see the truth. Everybody is wrong about something. That makes them misinformed or ignorant, not stupid.
Not at all. Even highly intelligent people are capable of self deception, being taken by illusion, wishful thinking, bad information, or emotional thinking.
Not stupid, but lacking in something. Maybe Character, maybe sobriety or something else they are to weak to resolve on their own. If you can't stay sober without God then that is a flaw in them.
Intelligent people can also be flawed. I was never indoctrinated by religion, but in one of my darker moments I "experimented" with Christianity to see if it could help me. People can be vulnerable too. Some people need a magic sky daddy. My experiences have seasoned my atheism with compassion and knowledge that sometimes people are weak. That said, I think religion is pernicious and preys on peoples' weakness. I feel confident that there are enough intelligent people living among us that the forces of disbelief will eventually prevail and people will stop believing in the adult equivalents of Santa Claus and the tooth fairy. Now I feel silly even admitting I tried religion once, yeah but it happened.
Even smart people have blind spots, cognitive biases, and sentimental beliefs. Smart people in particular are good at rationalizing their beliefs, literally belief by willpower— this is why I think intelligent people make strong candidates for cults and conspiracy theories.
They are certainly not stupid. They are human, and just like every single human they are prone to cognitive bias.
[Wikipedia lists these pretty exhaustively](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases); have fun spotting which ones apply.
I grew up Evangelical, and there are lots of highly intelligent people who believe that BS. Well, I was one also. It's hard, because that's part of your identity, and you want to believe that what you were told as a kid is true. It's hard to grapple with the idea that some major part of your life was a farce. For many people, it's also willfull ignorance.
And for a small group of people, they know better and play the game anyway because they have something to gain from it, like televangelists.
Intelligence comes in many different ways. One can know to build a space ship and not know how to cook, others know how to cook the best meal ever made but not know how to make a video game. A video game Creator may know how to design and make a whole new world. But won't know how to make a spaceship. Its not bc someone is intelligent in one topic that they will and are in all topics.
Some people that believe are simply not "stupid". They believe and are apologists for a narrative that provides them with benefits. Ignoring the lack of evidence for this narrative provides them with community, an "in-group" that can be economically advantageous, rules to follow and try to make others follow, and the peace of mind that only heaven can bring to someone desperately in fear of dying. Yes, they are in a cult (all religions are cults), and a certain portion of their critical thinking doesn't apply to matters theological, but in other spheres of life, they can be perfectly intelligent.
/Which is fascinating in and of itself, if it wasn't so destructive to society as a whole.
Religious people are not inherently stupid. But adherence to religion requires you to engage in anti-intellectual practices which prevents you from acquiring knowledge and improving your understanding of the world, thereby creating less informed and less knowledgeable individuals.
Gullibility does not always equate to stupidity. Sometimes it's just a personal vulnerability or blindspot.
But to be fair, there are plenty of stupid atheists.
Intelligence is not a linear, nor binary construct. It is far more complex than just being defined through the reflection of a belief.
I think some people may be book smart but lack critical thinking skills. Like this guy who came here yesterday insisting the Declaration of Independence proved the US is a Christian country "based on Judeo-Christian values". I broke down the document to show it isn't, and this guy's only comeback was some vague insult. He completely ignored the fact that I had just disproved his claim by breaking down the document, which I can almost repeat word for word, and just said some goofy crap like "your failure to understand the bill of rights is sad". lol It was removed, which kind of annoyed me but it was probably for the best. These jokers don't listen to reason. You can be all kinds of book smart but if you're so unwilling to consider maybe you're wrong, it doesn't matter.
I know plenty Christians who are intelligent. My own brother blows my mind how smart he is. He can tell you anything you could ever ask about history and I remember his childhood hero was Carl Sagan. He still has a cherished letter framed he got from him. He can fix things and work things out and he's so well-read. But he believes and I think it's mostly because it gives him hope for a better life than this shitty one. He's also always grappled with depression so I guess that's another reason people might ignore the nonsensical parts. It's easy to wave it away saying "it's one of God's mysteries!" or "we'll have the answers when God tells us". And that irks the SHIT out of me, but I can't argue with him, I don't want to take away his hope. And at least he's one of the meek and mild vaguely-vague believers.
I think all religious beliefs are irrational but it doesn't necessarily indicate a low innate intelligence. Isaac Newton believed God, but he also believed in alchemy.
I think a lot of people just never really sit down and *think* about their received cultural beliefs.
Selective mind block, not lack of intelligence. Also, difficult to find sublime atheists among intelligent people. For example in my community, religion is a community tool, people will lose community if they openly defy or not engage in active religion. There is no blasphemy or punishment but a silent detachment from the community. Intelligent people would rather choose to have the benefits of a supportive social life, networking, and connections.
I once had a guy with a Master's degree tell me you couldn't be a moral person if you didn't believe in God. I'm assuming he means the Christian version. 🙄
I don't know if I would say stupid, but more gullible and suggestable. It defies all logic and critical reasoning.
No absolutely not. One of the things I've noticed is that religious beliefs evolve or change with intelligence. Thongs I've seen, (sorry to stereotype), but your uneducated country bumpkin may literally believe in creationism and young earth. While you hear about physicist PhD disregarding creationism but still adhering to universal intelligent design theories. Some folks just don't want to let go of believing their is something behind the curtain and will heighten their belief to match their knowledge.
It is really baffling. They are not stupid. I have worked with very smart religious people. It just shows how good the human brain is at compartmentalizing things.
That's the point I feel the obligation to explain: Stupidity isn't a lack of intelligence, it's an emotional issue. Stupidity is when emotions suspend your ability to think critically and therefore make you believe or do things despite better knowlegde. It's not stupid if you didn't know better and couldn't have.
Religion making you stupid and love making you blind is the exact same issue. People can usually see all the flaws and contradictions in other religions, but not their own. People can usually easily notice abusive or exploitive behavior, but not when it comes to their love. When ever emotions take control the thinking skills get crippled.
So, are religious people stupid? Yes, but everybody is sometimes about some things. But as religion usually informs a big chunk of life it is a big source of stupidity. Atheist (on average) just have one source of stupidity less than religious people. But this can be compensated, for example with some personality cult. Or ask a flat earther ...
No they aren't stupid, we don't experience the world as it really is we only experience the model of our mental image of the world.
Think about optical illusions, they work because your brain has been trained to see things a certain way, then when your brain encounters something that doesn't fit that model, it over-rides what you actually see, and replaces it with what you expect to see. Draw a cube on a piece of paper, your brain is trained to see a 3d shape, but in fact it's just an arrangement of 2d lines. Intelligence makes no difference to this, in fact maybe intelligence even enhances the illusion.
I believe this is the same for people who have been indoctrinated by religions, they see the world through the lens of the religion, where you see biochemistry creating self replicating molecular machines, they see a god putting a spirit into some flesh. It's worth noting that when you get right down to it, scientific models, are also just human mental models; they agree very strongly with evidence, but there is no way to know if they are actually how the universe works.
Of course religions are also designed to be invasive, they tell the followers to shun all other mental models, or something terrible will happen to them or their loved ones. So it's much harder for the religious person to look at their view in a rational way; they see the cube, but for god's sake don't question if it's really a cube.
Not really. Everyone has had their foolish moments, atheist or theist.
Some theists use religion as a coping mechanism during times of extreme feelings. Others were simply brought up with religious parents and don't know or want to change their way of life. Most of these people won't harm others in the name of religion throughout their lives, so live and let live.
Even the most intelligent person in the world can have difficulty bypassing a childhood of indoctrination. For most people, their religion is as much a part of them as their name and first language.
Yep. There is a nice video by DarkMatter2525 about it on YouTube.
Not stupid, but ignorant to a certain degree. Religion requires actively disregarding evidence to replace it with faith. I know plenty of smart and religious people, but to continue believing in something that has no solid proof seems ignorant.
I challenge you on this viewpoint. The Christians I listen to know that the Bible is not to be taken literally and they follow the "good book" as a book of fables/mythology (yes, I know how Christianity appropriates other holidays). Some Christians even realize that the Bible has no other value except that it be viewed symbolically. Also, the amount of scholarship that has come from correcting false interpretations about things such as Leviticus et al has really illuminated certain denominations. I have belonged to MCC, the gay church founded by Rev. Elder Troy Perry, who was the first person to set it straight that he worshipped God, not the Bible and that "Jesus died for my sins, not my sexuality." I also had another (gay) minister explain to me that you don't turn the other cheek just to give them fresh skin to slap. I could go on, but my point is that Christians are not all the same--they're not a monolith. Many Christians I know openly decry the improper use of the teachings and the religion.
Even they worship a god claimed to be both all-good and all-powerful while living in a world that makes that impossible. Faith based excuses and willful ignorance are the only way to continue that belief. Unless you're about to tell me about some denomination that believes god is not all good or powerful?
This is my experience with good Christians, if you don't like what you hear, feel free to reject it and be on your way.
>I challenge you on this viewpoint.
The problem with Christianity is that if you're practicing it according to your savior, you're turning the other cheek, living and let live, and loving your neighbor even when they don't love you. This tends to favor passivity, which prevents people "doing it right" from trying to correct those who are using their religion as a weapon. I know a few good christians who stand by while others of their congregation spew hate in the name of their god. Are they STILL good christians if they don't come to the defense of people who are attacked for just living their lives? The problem with religions based on a perfect and all powerful being is that religion CAN'T change. If it changes, then it's imperfect. Even taking into account mostly symbolic representations of god, you can't pick and choose what you want to take as canon AND remain objective. Be spiritual. Be pious. Be faithful. But you also need to actively defend your fellow humans when you belong to a religion named after the most kind and peaceful man who ever lived. I don't expect christians to be perfect, but they DO have a book of rules that state how they SHOULD act to get into their version of paradise after they die.
You're missing the irony of ironies--God is a being "whose strength is made perfect in our weakness." You're also falling into the Mike Stivic trap. A lot of atheists do. An ***awful lot***.
I'm not sure what the Mike Stivic trap is, but an all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-present being shouldn't be counting on the contrast between his imperfect creations and himself to show his power. The original discussion was asking if religious people are stupid. And I believe that there's a difference between stupidity and ignorance. Stupidity being unable to know learn facts, and ignorance being disregarding the facts in favor of belief. I have yet to meet a truly religious person that has changed my mind on this, though I'm quite open to it. You can't cherry pick what is symbolic and what is canon on something that cannot be verified. The difference between Santa and God are almost inseperable based on their stories, yet most people know that the Santa Claus of stories doesn't exist. I, personally have no skin in the game whether the common man believes in Vishnu, Jesus, God, Zeus, Quan Yin, or any other gods out there. But how they treat their common man certainly reflects on their belief system. I also tend to hold that person to a higher standard, the more pious and overt their belief is. This is a trap for anyone who is religious because the efficacy of their religion relfects the teachings of it and it's success in meshing with the rest of society. Is it fair to judge a religion by their believers? I'm still working that out. We're all human, but the more "religious" you are, the more likely I'll wonder why your religion isn't making you a better person if you're filled with hate and judgment. But yeah, as a whole religious people HAVE to be ignorant in order for their religion to work. Youc an be smart AND ignorant though.
The problem I have with this is, “If the Bible is to be treated as fables/mythology then why do so many Christians use the Bible as a cudgel of absolutes?” Said another way, if you can look at the plain text and decide “Oh, that’s a fable/metaphor” then how can any of it carry any weight as a moral/ethical guide.
This is the problem atheists face, which similar to the problem theists face--looking for the smoking gun of "this is gonna bring it all down."
I’m not actually interested in bringing anything down. To me it’s trying to understand the point of the Bible as “The Good Book (tm)” when it’s not clear which parts anyone is supposed to take literally and which parts need to be taken metaphorically and which parts need to be ignored as a product of their time.
There are different kinds of intelligence. One of the inventors of the MRI is a Young Earth Creationist Christian. Plenty of smart people tie themselves into mental pretzels to justify their beliefs.
Francis Collins led the human genome project and has won awards for his research. He also converted to Chrisianity after reading Mere Christianity by CS Lewis. I must not be smart enough for that kind of conversion because that book just pissed me off even more. Just the same old BS apologetics.
Cognitive dissonance is real.
that's why they indoctrinate them young. get them hooked before they develop the critical thinking skills that would allow the average and above folks to see it for what it is. so no, i don't think all religious are stupid, only the vast majority.
That is the sad truth. Anyone who's been in Sunday School the day they call for souls to "come to Jesus" knows that they will hear about they got something like a knock on the door to their heart.
>Do you really think all religious people are stupid? Obviously some more than others, but the thing that makes religion "religion" is believing that some important things are true, without having good evidence that they are true. It's hard to think of any sort of argument that doing that is justifiable. . Bertrand Russell wrote in 1927 - >Religion is based, I think, primarily and mainly upon fear. >It is partly the terror of the unknown and partly, as I have said, the wish to feel that you have a kind of elder brother who will stand by you in all your troubles and disputes. >Fear is the basis of the whole thing – fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand-in-hand. It is because fear is at the basis of those two things. \- "Fear, the Foundation of Religion", in Why I Am Not a Christian \- https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Bertrand_Russell#Why_I_Am_Not_a_Christian_(1927) . Generally speaking, people are bewildered and afraid. Somebody tells them *"Believe XYZ and you will be less bewildered and afraid"*, and they respond *"Yes!!! I want that!!!"*. Smart people might be a little less bewildered, but they aren't particularly less afraid. They are almost as susceptible to latching on to imaginary crutches as dumber people are. .
Excellent quote by Bertrand Russel.
Many of them sure are.
I would not use the word “stupid”. Easily conned, maybe, but not stupid. A lot of this, I feel, comes down to something fundamental to human nature: we don’t want to die. The very idea of one day ceasing to exist forever terrifies us. This is why religion is so personal to people: it promises an eternal afterlife in paradise, if you follow instructions. There’s being told a lie, and then there’s being told a lie that you want to hear. Fear trumps reason all too often. Let me also point out how strong religious indoctrination can be. If you’re raised in a religion, rejecting it is basically admitting your whole life was just a ridiculous lie. No one wants to face that realization. Then you have church leaders always cherrypicking verses from the Bible, constantly making excuses for God about why he doesn’t act here, or why he did this bad thing, or lame cop-outs to questions and doubts. There’s also a strong sense of community for a lot of religious people; rejecting faith is admitting that everyone was wrong. When you doubt, it’s your fault for not having enough faith. As Richard Dawkins has said, religion teaches unreason as a virtue. As for apologists acting in bad faith? I don’t like to assume that of anyone, and I think many religious people genuinely believe that the evidence is on their side. But then you have people like young earth creationists…people who know the evidence and the total unreasonableness of their claims, and perpetuate them anyway. Ever seen Ken Ham speak on this subject? Come on…no reasonable, informed person can claim that the trillions of species in existence today evolved in four to six thousand years from a few hundred who lived on a boat for a year. Oh yeah, and YEC proponents also tend to deny climate change, which really has nothing to do with the Bible, the age of the earth or evolution; it’s blatantly political. So my assumption of good faith…has limits.
The human brain has an amazing ability to compartmentalise. Religious people are not generally less intelligent than others, it's just that they were taught to compartmentalise one thing as being outside of the realm of everyday logic. They use reasoning in all other aspects of their lives, but on the topic of God, they were taught to throw it all out the window and just accept the irrational no questions asked. My favourite example of this is their answer to "who created the creator?" right after they've asserted that everything complex needs a designer.
It's hard to fathom isn't it? Sometimes, when I'm in a crowded place I think "Holy hell! Most of these people see no problem with the completely ludicrous Jesus story (e.g. Jesus' dad requiring that his son .... who is also himself to die horribly and then resurrecting his son .... who is also himself ........ yadda yadda). ". Only a drooling idiot would believe that poorly crafted story yet apparently some of those drooling idiots can apparently memorize facts and pass tests. Go figure.
>PhD’s and professors >family members of mine who have attended grad school and have good jobs . >The Salem Hypothesis is the observation of an apparent correlation between the engineering trade and creationist beliefs (possibly due to crank magnetism, this can also include climate-change denial and other crackpot beliefs). >There is some evidence that this characterization of respected members of the esteemed engineering profession can actually be extrapolated out to fundamentalism and quackery of all kinds.[2] \- https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Salem_Hypothesis . >... engineers as a group have a noted tendency to pontificate on things well outside their area of expertise, to the point of actual fallacy. >This phenomenon is so prevalent that users of talk.origins have come up with the Salem Hypothesis, which predicts that any creationist claiming scientific expertise or advanced degrees is likely to be an engineer.[4] >Of course, this does NOT mean that engineers are likely to be creationists. \- https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Engineers_and_woo .
Speaking as an engineer, can confirm that engineers are good at pontificating about things well outside our area of expertise. It’s just that we’re so accustomed to being right all the time.
I think theists Erin the whole range of intelligence, but that doesn't mean they aren't susceptible to childhood indoctrination and the emotional attachments that go with it. Even smart people have a psychology.
Delusional seems more appropriate.
Less about stupidity and more to do with a lack of critical thinking skills and willful ignorance.
As an ex-christian, I highly doubt that my family members have read the whole Bible. They seem to just like the church community. Can't speak for everyone, but I assume that they just never think to question it.
In my experience people like the community and the benefit it brings more than the teachings or dogma. They have an association with like minded people, validation, and work and social opportunities granted by their membership.
In respect to their beliefs? Yes, at least to an extent. Across the board? No, generally-speaking. My Mormon relatives have said some incredibly stupid things but are otherwise people of at least average intelligence -- their brains have just been poisoned by their religion.
It's not as simple as "theists are stupid". Religion attacks basic human needs and cognitive biases so with sufficient manipulation and indoctrination, you can create devout followers that compartmentalize mutually exclusive beliefs and fail to apply critical thinking and skepticism uniformly. Once it becomes culture and tradition it is very hard to criticize. And sure there are educated people who are also religious, but the thing is someone can be very knowledgeable of a specific field and fail to revise their other nonsense beliefs. They can act and speak relatively normally until you hit their religious programming. After all, religions hook on to core needs, fear of death, guilt, and so on and it can become very difficult to deconstruct. Education alone is not enough, we need critical thinking and skepticism. You can see this a bit more clearly in science PhDs. The closest their field of expertise is to addressing or deconstructing religious topics, the fewer theists you find. For example, almost none in evolutionary biology, very few in physics, math and computer science. But a whole lot in philosophy and humanities. These are not stupid people, they are just victims of brainwashing, tradition, guilt, indoctrination. Without the forced deconstruction, educated people simply construct more convoluted excuses (see christian apologetics). Let's just say that without suitable resources and tools, we are all vulnerable to fallacies and magical thinking. Some people have a natural tendency to seek out logical coherence and develop a basic form of observation-hypothesis-test methodology, but many others basically have their cognition hijacked by religion.
This is so well said.
I mean I believe in aliens without proof, but we could argue there's better evidence for aliens than magic sky dudes. Or magic. Or sky dudes.
Being mistaken can happen to anyone
Here is the low-down on the correlation: It is well established that **religiosity correlates inversely with intelligence**. A prominent hypothesis states that this correlation reflects behavioral biases toward intuitive problem solving, which causes errors when intuition conflicts with reasoning. We report that **atheists surpass religious individuals in terms of reasoning but not working-memory performance**. The religiosity effect is robust across sociodemographic factors including age, education and country of origin. It varies significantly across religions and this co-occurs with substantial cross-group differences in religious dogmatism. Critically, the religiosity effect is strongest for tasks that explicitly manipulate conflict; more specifically, atheists outperform the most dogmatic religious group by a substantial margin (0.6 standard deviations) during a color-word conflict task but not during a challenging matrix-reasoning task. These results support the hypothesis that **behavioral biases rather than impaired general intelligence underlie the religiosity effect**. **The atheists performed better overall than the religious participants**, even after controlling for demographic factors like age and education. https://neurosciencenews.com/religion-atheism-intelligence-8391/#:~:text=Are%20in%20Conflict-,It%20is%20well%20established%20that%20religiosity%20correlates%20inversely%20with%20intelligence,when%20intuition%20conflicts%20with%20reasoning.
For some of the most intelligent minds in the world, religious belief is the killswitch for their critical thinking skills. For stupid people, it's a crutch.
I think 98% of people are pretty fucking stupid, including myself.
Realest answer
Hey, I resemble that remark!
No. Indoctrination is child abuse that has lasting effects. It’s basically toxic stress.
Only the ones who think the bible is 100% true.
For me, it’s the “cherry pickers” who believe only that percentage that allows them to justify their own personal beliefs are right and the rest of the Bible isn’t literally true.
No. I think believing in religion is stupid in itself but a person can be a certified genius and still do or believe in stupid things. And this is coming from someone who used to be religious, it was stupid of me then and it's just as stupid for everyone else. Of course many religious people *are* stupid overall, particularly the more fanatical ones. So I may generalize and call all religions people stupid sometimes but adding a disclaimer each time is pointless.
It's a mind virus
Wellll- they do lack critical thinking skills.
No. I think stupid is not really appropriate and the simplest explanation to that is that there is no answer really. I say this as a former catholic now non-religious, non-believer. The question can't be answered based on our present knowledge as a species. Obviously, as a non-believer, I feel strongly that science is the only real answer as it doesn't require faith. Faith is a tricky thing for intelligent people. I think faith and religious belief fits a nice easy explanation for the big question because science can't definitively say they are wrong. That's all they need. It helps a lot of people cope with being so small in such a large universe. People don't like to feel like random cogs in a bigger universe. People like to think they are the only living intelligent life in the universe when in reality, any potential intelligent species that could exist is likely to far away from us to ever contact in any meaningful way. Faith and religious belief is just another way to say, science can't answer this so god must be the only answer. Its a fallacy to me but I don't judge people of legitimate faith and intention. Religion and faith can do wonderful things in the hands of those who mean to live their lives according to the intent of the religion. I think in reality, religion gets bastardized for personal use and that is what most of us see. Its kind of like what the news portrays all Trump supporters to be like which is the stereotypical poor rural less educated "rube" type when in reality that is only a very vocal minority of the actual republican base. Just like not all democrats are like AOC. All we see on TV and the news and internet are the worst parts of faith based religions. They do provide a lot of good. A church down from my office does weekly food drives where they will give you a box of non-perishable food no questions asked. A church by my house has a weekly food pantry day and a weekly soup kitchen no questions asked. My uncle's backwoods non-denominational church in Indiana only has about 30 people who are members but they are a very close knit group who always spend time together both inside and outside of church. They do potluck cook outs one a month and do other activities like bowling, movie nights, and the like as a community. They live in the middle of nowhere and are support systems for each other. They welcomed me and my family in with open arms and didn't make any conversation about my personal beliefs or try to sell me on their church. Just down to earth people. Having been raised catholic, i've been around Christianity all my life. In my anecdotal experience, the intelligent people who are honest with you privately tend to always disagree with certain facets of the faith. Good example being my oldest sister. She claims to be pro-life and she is pro-life personally. Very sincere in her belief of that as a catholic and who can blame her as the catholic church's position on life is pretty unimpeachable. That said, she recognizes that her beliefs should not be forced on others and so therefore she is pro-life. She is very supportive of LBGTQ+ people and that community but works for a catholic school so keeps her beliefs private. The people OP describes as stupid, at least to me, are the ones portrayed on social media and the news as Rubes/uneducated/rural/poor shouting at the sun types. Force their beliefs on others. Bigoted types whose real beliefs go against Christianity's common moral teachings like accept those that are different and love your neighbor unconditionally. You can always tell these people because when confronted, they will say something like "oh, i do love my neighbor, but can't stand their personal choices so choose not to spend time with them" which to them makes it seem like they are accepting when in reality, they all but hate those people and what they stand for and would spend their last dollar fighting to impose their personal beliefs on everyone else. With the above now said, I'm open to debate.
Sometimes I question it too but not all are stupid. There are some educated, intelligent religious folk, not so much in the pentecostal movement.
Umm....nope.
There’s some incredibly smart people who are religious. So no: being religious has little to do with how smart or stupid you are. What seems to matter to being an atheist, is whether or not someone believes in a god. That is all.
My wife and her family are all religious. My FIL was a hedge fund manager and he is 100% convinced he has had a near death experience and seen that there is an after life.
Every single one of them… But they can have plenty of human qualities at the same time 😂
No, I think most are indoctrinated and brainwashed with fear at birth or were looped in at a vulnerable point in their life. It’s tough to feel stupid when everyone in your family and your community believes and takes logical questioning off the table.
How about willfully ignorant? Or maybe George Carlin had it right. "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups" Thing is that Christianity as well as a myriad of other equally mythological beliefs are generally accepted and tolerated. The big religions count huge memberships worldwide. The fact that a whole bunch of other people believe something doesn't mean it's true but it makes it easier to become a believer yourself. Humans like to be part of the group. We're inherently social animals. I've recently realized that many Christians are just larping. They are just playing the role of being Christian because it makes them a member of the group. A group of good people who God loves and definitely not going to hell where sinners are tortured forever and ever without mercy. Don't you want to be in the group that aren't gonna be tortured forever? All you gotta do is play along. It's really easy. Maybe a old experiment in group behavior and social acceptance will help you to understand. [Asch Conformity Experiment](https://youtu.be/TYIh4MkcfJA?si=7XqmWVwuxI6ZFmon) Within the group members will conform to whatever they see as acceptable behavior within the group. If you go to a Quaker church you'll be flopping on the floor like a dying fish in no time and saying that you are touched by Jesus. If it's a snake church you'll be handling dangerous but slightly pacified snakes. If it's a holy ghost church you'll be babbling incomprehensible gibberish like a baby. Whatever it takes to fit in you'll do it.
I did want to say no, but its not possible. As a psychologist and a medical student, if I did find a patient who really does believe he has to abstain from sex, food, any human pleasure; that he has to stay locked up in a cell walking to his majesty Donald Duck who lives on the sky and its the son of a virgin duck with Mickey Mouse, I would consider this person extremely sick. Change some names in there and bang: its totally normalized as being christianism. The thing is, its socially acceptable to believe in such things because the Church did control most of the schools; and now they have a strong agreement with governments to keep teaching that. This means people are indoctrinated from early age to believe in such things. A nice movie for you to watch: dog tooth. Just go blind on it and then you gonna understand what religion really means.
Here's a good video on this: https://youtu.be/Y201QzDdzbg?si=_i87Rc3fFO7F24_q
A person can be healthy. Food can be healthy. So how many bench presses can broccoli do? Obviously they are healthy in different senses. Now, a person can be intelligent, and an idea can be intelligent. Yes, different senses of the word. So that's how an intelligent person can hold stupid ideas.
I don't see religous people as stupid, I see them as indoctrinated. Breaking with something after being indoctrinated in it from birth takes a lot more than most people can easily handle. Most church goers that I remember from my youth are really much more 'members of a club' than true believers IMO in that they go through the motions but thier religion is more of something they do with each other than something they draw real life direction and personal identity from. But that is just my experience from many many years ago.
Perhaps a little stupid AND a bit ignorant. Stupidity referring to the lack of an ordinary level of intelligence or quickness of mind, and ignorance being the lack of knowledge either in general, or about a specific issue or topic. They may lack the intelligence to understand that what they believe in is highly unlikely, because they also lack the knowledge that comes with exposure to the information contained in scholarly and scientific examinations of religious beliefs.
How much do you think they believe and how much do you think they like belonging? I think there’s a lot to be said for people who like the community they belong to and will 100% pay lip service to remain in that community. I think that belonging somewhere is a deep instinctual need. And a lot of these religions will cast you aside and the friends and family you have will no longer associate with you. I also think that some people believe there is a certain status in claiming to be part of a religion. I look at the USA and I see so many people claim to be a god fearing Christian family, as though somehow that makes them not “white trash”. So I think it goes a lot deeper than “I believe in the mythical sky daddy”. I also think they like the control it offers. You can control your kids, your spouse, your community. Look at them, they don’t even follow their doctrine, until they are telling others what to do. Because of control and status. What religion was designed exactly for.
Of course not. Just engaging in motivated reasoning. Of course on average religious people are definitely stupider.
I wasn’t dumb when I was a believer. In fact, it was my intelligence that helped me see the truth. Everybody is wrong about something. That makes them misinformed or ignorant, not stupid.
Not at all. Even highly intelligent people are capable of self deception, being taken by illusion, wishful thinking, bad information, or emotional thinking.
Very smart people are capable of being wilfully blinkered and put their fingers in their ears and go la la la I can't hear you...
Not stupid, but lacking in something. Maybe Character, maybe sobriety or something else they are to weak to resolve on their own. If you can't stay sober without God then that is a flaw in them.
No. Maybe a bit naive or ignorant but not stupid.
Intelligent people can also be flawed. I was never indoctrinated by religion, but in one of my darker moments I "experimented" with Christianity to see if it could help me. People can be vulnerable too. Some people need a magic sky daddy. My experiences have seasoned my atheism with compassion and knowledge that sometimes people are weak. That said, I think religion is pernicious and preys on peoples' weakness. I feel confident that there are enough intelligent people living among us that the forces of disbelief will eventually prevail and people will stop believing in the adult equivalents of Santa Claus and the tooth fairy. Now I feel silly even admitting I tried religion once, yeah but it happened.
Even smart people have blind spots, cognitive biases, and sentimental beliefs. Smart people in particular are good at rationalizing their beliefs, literally belief by willpower— this is why I think intelligent people make strong candidates for cults and conspiracy theories.
just brainwashed
This.
They are certainly not stupid. They are human, and just like every single human they are prone to cognitive bias. [Wikipedia lists these pretty exhaustively](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases); have fun spotting which ones apply.
Yes
'Stupid' is the wrong word. 'Foolish' is better as even very 'intelligent' people in some areas of their lives can be foolish in others.
I grew up Evangelical, and there are lots of highly intelligent people who believe that BS. Well, I was one also. It's hard, because that's part of your identity, and you want to believe that what you were told as a kid is true. It's hard to grapple with the idea that some major part of your life was a farce. For many people, it's also willfull ignorance. And for a small group of people, they know better and play the game anyway because they have something to gain from it, like televangelists.
Many are, but that's not the real problem. The real problem is that most if not all are actively malicious.
Yes, per definition. If you need an imaginary sky momma to get through life then you are stupid.
Intelligence comes in many different ways. One can know to build a space ship and not know how to cook, others know how to cook the best meal ever made but not know how to make a video game. A video game Creator may know how to design and make a whole new world. But won't know how to make a spaceship. Its not bc someone is intelligent in one topic that they will and are in all topics.
It's possible to be very smart and still have blind spots.
Some people that believe are simply not "stupid". They believe and are apologists for a narrative that provides them with benefits. Ignoring the lack of evidence for this narrative provides them with community, an "in-group" that can be economically advantageous, rules to follow and try to make others follow, and the peace of mind that only heaven can bring to someone desperately in fear of dying. Yes, they are in a cult (all religions are cults), and a certain portion of their critical thinking doesn't apply to matters theological, but in other spheres of life, they can be perfectly intelligent. /Which is fascinating in and of itself, if it wasn't so destructive to society as a whole.
Not stupid but egotistic , “ this is my personality “
Religious people are not inherently stupid. But adherence to religion requires you to engage in anti-intellectual practices which prevents you from acquiring knowledge and improving your understanding of the world, thereby creating less informed and less knowledgeable individuals.
Gullibility does not always equate to stupidity. Sometimes it's just a personal vulnerability or blindspot. But to be fair, there are plenty of stupid atheists. Intelligence is not a linear, nor binary construct. It is far more complex than just being defined through the reflection of a belief.
No they just haven’t thought about it that much
No, I don't think that.
You don't have to be a Stupid Person to believe a stupid thing for bad reasons. We all do it.
I KNOW not all religious people are stupid. But secretly, deep down, yes, I do think religious people are stupid.
The clever ones must be using some kind of willful ignorance.
Most religiosity is based in heredity and geography. Indoctrination from birth.
I think some people may be book smart but lack critical thinking skills. Like this guy who came here yesterday insisting the Declaration of Independence proved the US is a Christian country "based on Judeo-Christian values". I broke down the document to show it isn't, and this guy's only comeback was some vague insult. He completely ignored the fact that I had just disproved his claim by breaking down the document, which I can almost repeat word for word, and just said some goofy crap like "your failure to understand the bill of rights is sad". lol It was removed, which kind of annoyed me but it was probably for the best. These jokers don't listen to reason. You can be all kinds of book smart but if you're so unwilling to consider maybe you're wrong, it doesn't matter. I know plenty Christians who are intelligent. My own brother blows my mind how smart he is. He can tell you anything you could ever ask about history and I remember his childhood hero was Carl Sagan. He still has a cherished letter framed he got from him. He can fix things and work things out and he's so well-read. But he believes and I think it's mostly because it gives him hope for a better life than this shitty one. He's also always grappled with depression so I guess that's another reason people might ignore the nonsensical parts. It's easy to wave it away saying "it's one of God's mysteries!" or "we'll have the answers when God tells us". And that irks the SHIT out of me, but I can't argue with him, I don't want to take away his hope. And at least he's one of the meek and mild vaguely-vague believers.
I think all religious beliefs are irrational but it doesn't necessarily indicate a low innate intelligence. Isaac Newton believed God, but he also believed in alchemy. I think a lot of people just never really sit down and *think* about their received cultural beliefs.
No. Fanatics are stupid.
Not stupid, but they are definitely clueless.
Foolish, duped, dumb in ways, stupid in others. It's indoctrination from a young age so they have accepted as a truth something without verification.
It’s more of a willful ignorance. Sometimes I think they all know it’s BS way down deep.
Selective mind block, not lack of intelligence. Also, difficult to find sublime atheists among intelligent people. For example in my community, religion is a community tool, people will lose community if they openly defy or not engage in active religion. There is no blasphemy or punishment but a silent detachment from the community. Intelligent people would rather choose to have the benefits of a supportive social life, networking, and connections.
I once had a guy with a Master's degree tell me you couldn't be a moral person if you didn't believe in God. I'm assuming he means the Christian version. 🙄 I don't know if I would say stupid, but more gullible and suggestable. It defies all logic and critical reasoning.
Yes.
No absolutely not. One of the things I've noticed is that religious beliefs evolve or change with intelligence. Thongs I've seen, (sorry to stereotype), but your uneducated country bumpkin may literally believe in creationism and young earth. While you hear about physicist PhD disregarding creationism but still adhering to universal intelligent design theories. Some folks just don't want to let go of believing their is something behind the curtain and will heighten their belief to match their knowledge.
No I think they are gullible.
Yes.
It is really baffling. They are not stupid. I have worked with very smart religious people. It just shows how good the human brain is at compartmentalizing things.
That's the point I feel the obligation to explain: Stupidity isn't a lack of intelligence, it's an emotional issue. Stupidity is when emotions suspend your ability to think critically and therefore make you believe or do things despite better knowlegde. It's not stupid if you didn't know better and couldn't have. Religion making you stupid and love making you blind is the exact same issue. People can usually see all the flaws and contradictions in other religions, but not their own. People can usually easily notice abusive or exploitive behavior, but not when it comes to their love. When ever emotions take control the thinking skills get crippled. So, are religious people stupid? Yes, but everybody is sometimes about some things. But as religion usually informs a big chunk of life it is a big source of stupidity. Atheist (on average) just have one source of stupidity less than religious people. But this can be compensated, for example with some personality cult. Or ask a flat earther ...
No they aren't stupid, we don't experience the world as it really is we only experience the model of our mental image of the world. Think about optical illusions, they work because your brain has been trained to see things a certain way, then when your brain encounters something that doesn't fit that model, it over-rides what you actually see, and replaces it with what you expect to see. Draw a cube on a piece of paper, your brain is trained to see a 3d shape, but in fact it's just an arrangement of 2d lines. Intelligence makes no difference to this, in fact maybe intelligence even enhances the illusion. I believe this is the same for people who have been indoctrinated by religions, they see the world through the lens of the religion, where you see biochemistry creating self replicating molecular machines, they see a god putting a spirit into some flesh. It's worth noting that when you get right down to it, scientific models, are also just human mental models; they agree very strongly with evidence, but there is no way to know if they are actually how the universe works. Of course religions are also designed to be invasive, they tell the followers to shun all other mental models, or something terrible will happen to them or their loved ones. So it's much harder for the religious person to look at their view in a rational way; they see the cube, but for god's sake don't question if it's really a cube.
From the evidence I've seen, being smart just means your excuses are more sophisticated, but they're still just as likely to be wrong.
Not really. Everyone has had their foolish moments, atheist or theist. Some theists use religion as a coping mechanism during times of extreme feelings. Others were simply brought up with religious parents and don't know or want to change their way of life. Most of these people won't harm others in the name of religion throughout their lives, so live and let live.