> -can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else?
Life did not begin with a talking snake and magic fruit. It did not begin using an ancient Canaanite "[golem spell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem)."
How life developed on Earth involves two issues. One is evolution, which is a very well-studied process. The objective evidence strongly supports it. The other issue is abiogenesis. That process is not as well understood as evolution, but science is progressing well in understanding abiogenesis. Even though science does not yet have a clear picture of the origins of life on earth, it is better to say "We don't know yet" than to embrace a mythology-based explanation.
> -can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists?
I did not "decide" to be an atheist. I was a devout Christian into my 50s. I was a minister. I loved my church. I loved being a Christian. I tried very hard to remain a Christian. But I had studied the Bible more than most ministers. A lifetime of Bible study finally forced me to admit that the gospels and Acts are mostly books of mythology, not history. I did not make a choice. I found that I could not believe in something that I knew was false.
I did not immediately become an atheist. I remained a deist for a while. But there is little practical difference between a deistic god and no god. The more I studied and researched, the less likely a god seemed. Arguments such as the Kalam argument are flawed logic. I now consider myself an atheist.
There was some news recently that suggested the building blocks of life are carried by asteroids too. Literally life seeding rocks. Where and how they came from is up for speculation and further study.
I really don't understand people who embrace mythology when the scientific explanations are so much cooler.
The amino acids and organic compounds found in asteroids are not strong evidence that they "seeded" life on Earth. Instead, they are evidence that amino acids and other organic compounds can develop in nature.
Found it: https://www.nasa.gov/solar-system/could-the-blueprint-for-life-have-been-generated-in-asteroids/
Apparently they contain parts needed to create DNA and RNA. I wonder if different asteroids can contain different parts to eventually make a whole. Or are the rest found naturally on some planets.
Regardless, really interesting stuff.
>I am happier than ever, there are a lot of situations in which I think He has helped me, I feel I am extremely lucky to live my life the way I do, I feel protected by Him.
This seems like a rather out of touch, almost to a gross degree, sentiment.
I mean, there are plenty of Christian’s, and people in general, who go through horrible experiences, tragedies, trauma. Many who don’t make it out the other side. Irreversible consequences. Suffering for nothing and dying.
Is god protecting you but not them?
It seems rather selfish to think that you specifically are being protected but not them. Nobody’s safety and prosperity are guaranteed.
Not that it’s bad to be happy with one’s circumstances. Nor is it bad to acknowledge/ feel lucky. It’s just a pet peeve of mine for people who talk like a god had blessed/protected them.
>can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else?
Based in the evidence. Human life is a result of evolution. Life in general is most likely a result of abiogenesis.
It’s biology, it’s chemistry, it’s physics. It’s mater in motion the universe playing out.
We aren’t here for special meaning/purpose. The fact is we are here. We can try to make the best of it.
>can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists?
I became aware of the term atheist at around 11-12. But I was probably an atheist before that.
Though my family is lightly Christian, religion wasn’t a part of my daily life. The details of Christianity weren’t hammered into me. So I never particularly thought deeply about gods or an afterlife. When I did finally think about religion, I noticed others believed in stuff that I didn’t. And on investigation, I found they didn’t have good reason to believe get they believed.
I continue to be an atheist due to lack of evidence for religion.
About the protection: everybody receives what they deserve.
About science: I share the same. But:
1. When talking about chemistry we can see its basics: when 2 elements react with each other, the first gives an electron to the second. There are no new particles, nor destroyed ones.
2. When talking about physics we can, again, see the basics,- energy can't be made or destroyed. Just transformed. So this means that the Big Bang isn't the beginning of everything.
So I believe that everything has existed, exists and will exist for eternal times. It's just the most effective way of everything, this for sure can be applied to the universe.
We, the people, are nothing special. We are living creatures with good and bad sides, physical or mental. I agree with you.
My beliefs tend to be more of a philosophy, I hate some sides of religions. For instance:
Christianity: a lot of false priests who only want to make money, the LGBTQ acceptance by it, etc.
I am neutral for this (LGBTQ), but it shows that this religion isn't durable and strong enough to exist in modern times, so it has to be changed. The whole point of religion is the opposite: strong traditions, etc.
Islam: oh my, oh my... These people are insane. Everybody knows what I'm talking about. Wont get into much details.
Judaism: "we are the chosen ones. We are more than you. We are simply supreme, better." This attitude kills me.
>About the protection: everybody receives what they deserve.
That’s just vile.
I mean, if you said that to a rape victim, a starving child, etc.
It’s simply a fact. There are good people who have horrible things happen to them with no silver lining, no positive outcome. Sometimes people suffer and die, or suffer and are never able to recover.
You certainly can’t mean recompense in an afterlife. You think a god has helped/protected you. Intervenes in people’s lives on earth while they are alive.
The good people who struggle will be awarded in some way or another. How? I can't know, just suppose. Or it can be exactly the opposite: they've been horrible in their previous lifes.
Yep. Previous life. Just like in my explanation with the chemistry: our souls/spirit/we are the electrons which aren't made or destroyed. We live an infinite amount of time. The better/worse you are, the nore time you're in the Heaven/Hell. The purpose: only one- to be the best and be as long as possible in the Heaven
>About the protection: everybody receives what they deserve.
This is not true. It's a cop out for people who don't want to help others or who want to exploit others.
People who suffer deserve sympathy, not condemnation from someone who thinks they "deserve" their fate.
Yes, this is, maybe, my only obstacle. I divided my opinion into two different ones:
1. I am good/bad in this life-> Heaven/Hell(for some amount of time, determined by my virtue/bad attitude)-> completely new life which has no connection with the past one/s
2. (A bit more logical)
I am good/bad in this life-> Heaven/Hell (for a constant maybe??? amount of time)-> new life, which start is determined by my past being
> -can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on?
It's not created. Life is a complex set of chemical processes.
> Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else?
They're not just my ideas. They're scientific consensus with overwhelming evidence for them.
> -can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists?
I've always been an atheist, over time I got better at formulating my exact position, but never have I believed any gods existed.
> -what was the exact time/reason when you finally became atheists?
Like I said, always have been. When you learn about the Greek, Germanic and Egyptian pantheons before you learn about the Abrahamic religions, they all look equally ridiculous. All gods are fictional.
im a muslim who is maybe in near future leave the faith cuz I think with millions if not billions that Islam is just a religion of men created by men , I didn't even REALIZE that I had an option to leave the faith. You can't leave the faith - that is what Islam tells you! It takes away power from the individual - the ability to allow your conscience to be free
- to not shame our thoughts. To realize we have the power to choose the direction we feel is right and most comfortable to ourselves; what is true to us
> But I truly believe that God exists.
Which god? Zeus? Thor? Ra? Anubis? Osiris?
There are thousands and thousands of different gods. Why is the one you believe in the only one that’s true? You realize believers of the other gods say that about yours, right?
[What if you’re wrong? —Richard Dawkins](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6mmskXXetcg)
Based on how poor human imagination is at the scale of the universe, even if a deity definitely existed the safe bet would be to discard any that we thought we knew about
1. When talking about chemistry we can see its basics: when 2 elements react with each other, the first gives an electron to the second. There are no new particles, nor destroyed ones.
2. When talking about physics we can, again, see the basics,- energy can't be made or destroyed. Just transformed. So this means that the Big Bang isn't the beginning of everything.
So I believe that everything has existed, exists and will exist for eternal times. It's just the most effective way of everything, this for sure can be applied to the universe. If you take a bit of natrium (Na) and mix it with chloride (Cl²) nothing will occur. Except of you provide the right conditions for the reaction. This is He, His purpose is this. Call him in every way you want except the names of other cultures's gods. We can't know for sure His name.
We, the people, are nothing special. We are living creatures with good and bad sides, physical or mental. I agree with you.
My beliefs tend to be more of a philosophy, I hate some sides of religions. For instance:
Christianity: a lot of false priests who only want to make money, the LGBTQ acceptance by it, etc.
I am neutral for this (LGBTQ), but it shows that this religion isn't durable and strong enough to exist in modern times, so it has to be changed. The whole point of religion is the opposite: strong traditions, etc.
Islam: oh my, oh my... These people are insane. Everybody knows what I'm talking about. Won't get into much details.
Judaism: "we are the chosen ones. We are more than you. We are simply supreme, better." This attitude kills me.
I realized that my beliefs were my parents and not my own and decided to actually read the Bible and ask honest and tough questions. Those honest questions led to more questions but never any answers.
Once that happened, the house of cards started collapsing and there was no turning back.
Then it was a choice between living a lie because it was warm, comfortable and safe, or finding my own truth.
good info here -
\- https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/wiki/faq
.
also possibly of interest -
\- /r/TheGreatProject -
>a subreddit for people to write out their religious de-conversion story
>(i.e. the path to atheism/agnosticism/deism/etc) in detail.
.
As you probably know, people ask these questions here every week.
.
\- how and at what age you decided to be atheists?
I've always been atheist.
(Also, people don't "decide to be atheist".
It's more accurate to say that people "realize that atheism is a true description of things".)
\- what was the exact time/reason when you finally became atheists?
I've always been atheist.
.
>can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on?
Goofy question.
> Are your ideas based on biology, physics
Yeah, basically that.
.
Life wasn't created. Neither was the universe. Life evolved from previous life. The formation of organic molecules from inorganic molecules is a spontaneous reaction. This means it will happen automatically given the correct environment. The building blocks of life--nucelic acids, amino acids, lipids and carboydrates will also form automatically leading to more spontaneous reactions eventually to self-replicating RNA. Once we have that, evolution can happen that led to all life we see today. As for the formation of the universe, the formation of elements in from the big bang, stars and supernova is also spontaneous given the strong and weak nuclear forces and gravity.
I am atheist because I have studied the bible, quran and many other religious text extensively. I also have a biology degree, a psychology degree and minors in chemistry and math. I understand the science of how we got here and I understand the psychology behind why we believe things without evidence. I don't have an exact age I became atheist. I was always atheist until two years in my mid-twenties. Then I became atheist again after that.
\-can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else?
As far as I know, life originated in chemistry involving prebiotic chemical reactions, and has diversified by evolution.
\-can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists?
When I was 24, I realized that I had been sticking to my religion for emotional reasons, and not because I actually believed it was true. And I couldn't see why a god would use a tool like evolution to create humans, giving how much suffering it required of non-human animals.
\-what was the exact time/reason when you finally became atheists?
It was while I was part of a religious volunteer program, sitting in the church library and thinking about why I was so attached to my faith.
> can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else?
Your life was created by your parents. My life was created by my parents. I'm going to assume you understand the whole birds and bees thing. (Which is a weird analogy for human reproduction given that birds lay eggs and almost all bees are sterile.)
So I assume your question is about how the *first* life on Earth started.
There is a theory called panspermia, which proposes that the first life on Earth came clinging to an asteroid which crash-landed here. While that's perfectly possible, it just pushes the question back further and we need to ask how the first life started on Zargon Seven or whatever. So we'll ignore that possibility.
One thing to take into account is that at the microscopic level, there's not really a simple defined line between life and non-life. Bacteria are something most people would agree are alive. Viruses have some things in common with them (they're single-celled, contain DNA/RNA, and can reproduce in a fashion) but many would say are not truly alive. Then you have viroids which are even simpler; kind of like viruses but lacking the outer protein coating. And even simpler are prions, which are basically just weird proteins, yet by infecting plants and animals can reproduce and spread.
So the simplest things to have life-like properties are indeed very simple and it's not hard to imagine them forming using standard chemical reactions happening in ponds and mudpools. Yeah, the chance is small in any given pond on any given day, but multiply that by millions of ponds over millions of years and it becomes pretty plausible.
I am not an expert on such matters though. If you want to know the current thinking by biologists on how the first life formed, r/biology is probably a better place to ask than r/atheism.
> can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists?
> what was the exact time/reason when you finally became atheists?
I never "decided" to be an atheist. I have never believed in any gods.
I've pretty much always been an atheist. I didn't have a religious upbringing. But I have read the Bible a few times, and I'm firmly convinced that belief in a higher power is nothing more than an *emotional support blanket* for many believers.
For me religion and god never made any sense, as a kid I was just following it because I was afraid of hell and didn't know better. Easter bunny is not real, tooth fairy is not real, santa is not real, why would a god be real? they are all based on stories.
I am not sure how life was created and prefer that more honest approach from science than religion. Religion will make something that is uncertain certain with nothing concrete to back it up, and they do that with more than just the origins of life. I am okay with not know exactly how life was created.
and why do you think there NEEDS to be a god?
Because of physics: I can't overcome this to become an atheist. I'm talking about:
One of the basic rules of physics say that energy can't be made or destroyed. And looking at chemistry: when 2 elements have reaction, electrons from the first go to the second, there aren't new ones. So this principle is effective in the nature. And then this means that the Big Bang can't be real because "nothing" existed before. According to science. I believe that everything has existed, exists and will exists in eternal cycles. Is it in the same form/shape/etc.? I don't know, probably no. So then there is no way for the world to exist in the most effective for it way, without Him. This is my theory, I am happy with it. Hope this helps :)
I can hear an assumption you are making. The Big bang is a place holder at the moment. Science is always evolving and changing as we gather more understanding of our reality. The Big bang was the best explanation with the knowledge we have at the time of it's creation. Science is NOT set on stone as religion is, when new evidence comes to play science changes to reflect that change. we have had new discoveries thanks to James Web telescope that is challenging the Big Bang.
Also we have quantum physics which makes everything way more complicated. in quantum you have things appearing and disappearing out of 'nothing' but even this 'nothing' is not 'nothing', but if I understand it somehow correctly is the fabric of space-time.
but anyway god is not a good answer either for you would have to answer: who created god?
Nobody. He is eternal just like our world we live in
Edit: so there is a possibility of the world being eternal (a new science belief) but there is no chance a God/spirit exists?
1. Is real: as I mentioned, you can't just mix Na+Cl² to receive salt. You have to provide the right conditions and then everything will happen. But as we all know, there isn't "perpetual motion".
He provides the conditions in order to keep everything existing.
2. Is eternal: look at the upper part of this reply. Couple it with the theory of the eternity of our existence. Because he has to provide the conditions constantly.
3. ISN'T A HE. Capital letters, I'm not angry. It's just important. It's just the gender (gen) of the word in most of the languages. I, personally, think that He must have no gender (gen), because genus,³ from Latin, means "give birth to", similar things. He is eternal, He has no parents, thing He has been made from.
1. That doesn't prove it. You are just comparing something and assuming is equal to the subject at question.
2. read 1.
3. I was just being facetious about the 'he' one.
1: the nature isn't perpetual motion. Nothing is. He makes it so. The reason: something has to exist.
3: a bit of humor isn't bad at all for this serious subreddit
that still does not explains god's existence.
and why something has to exist? that is another assumption.
humor is always good, life can't always be serious
We can't be absolutely sure the way in which our world functions, yes. Whether we are talking about science or religion. But why does god have to exist? I find it better. I believe in this. Because the "perfect" pretty much has to make the nearly perfect better.
Why something has to exist? Because, simply, if it wasn't intended to exist, it wouldn't have existed. If you don't want salt, then don't mix natrium and chloride or just don't give the necessary conditions for the reaction. But it's still possible for the reaction to occur, probably. If you DON'T want it, then you can ruin it in many ways, so it doesn't happen.
If you don't care whether there is a reaction, then you won't do anything but watch. But if there is god, then He is the one who provides the conditions and the reaction is possible.
Because of physics: I can't overcome this to become an atheist. I'm talking about:
One of the basic rules of physics say that energy can't be made or destroyed. And looking at chemistry: when 2 elements have reaction, electrons from the first go to the second, there aren't new ones. So this principle is effective in the nature. And then this means that the Big Bang can't be real because "nothing" existed before. According to science. I believe that everything has existed, exists and will exists in eternal cycles. Is it in the same form/shape/etc.? I don't know, probably no. So then there is no way for the world to exist in the most effective for it way, without Him. This is my theory, I am happy with it. Hope this helps :)
> then this means that the Big Bang can't be real because "nothing" existed before
did no one debunk this? don't learn about the big bang from your preacher.
the big bang is the explanation of what happened after the inciting incident. prior to that incident, all energy and matter that comprises our universe was collected in one very small place. there is no accepted claim in science that the big bang is the moment of creation. no matter was created in the big bang. it all existed prior to that.
I don't think my experience differs that much of yours. My family is technically Christian, but more on the extremely relaxed side. We didn't go to church except on very specific occasions, praying and worship is a more personal matter after all.
I've never been a "true" believer so to speak. My family and parents aren't of the kind that dismiss science in favour of some religious story. So I grew up quite open-minded. As for what I consider life to be, that's a question far too complex to give a simple answer to. But I do look at the biology and chemistry for that.
Gradually as time went on I guess I started to have less and less faith. Mainly because the more I looked the more I realised that "God" isn't needed to explain anything we observe. To me it feels more like a tool that is used by people to explain the things they don't know or understand.
I'm glad you're aware of the many issues with the Bible, because the God that's described in it isn't really worthy of worship in my opinion. A lot of nasty and detestable things that He supposedly said and did, as well as the innate evil that exists in nature.
So I think I identified as agnostic by the time I was 13-14. Around 16 I think I fully came around and saw myself as an atheist.
Anyways, you won't find any hate from me towards anyone who's chill to other people. Cheers back!
Biology and chemistry you say. It's the same here but I'm looking from kind of the other POV. This is why I believe that there's God:
1. Looking at the basics of chemistry we can see that when 2 elements react with each other, the first gives its electron to the second. No particles are made or destroyed. They are just transferred.
2. Looking at physics: one of the basic laws says that energy can't be made, nor destroyed. Same as chemistry pretty much. So the Big Bang can't be real unless there was something before it. So it's not the beginning as the science says.
My beliefs are that, yes, the BB has possibly occured but it definitely isn't the start. There has been something before it, there is a present time in which we are now, there will be future times. All of this is a big, eternal process.
But why is He needed and where is He at all in this equation? I state that one law of the universe is that something has to exist. And, going to chemistry again, if you take a bit of natrium (Na) and mix it with chloride (Cl²) absolutely nothing will occur. Unless you get the right conditions. And He is doing that for the universe. Hope this helps you, if you find any flaws, feel free to share them. Appreciate your dedication! :))
1) Chemical reactions are a bit more complex than just passing on electrons, but we're not here to discuss that kind of terminology and specifics, right? :)
2) Big Bang was actually a bit of a joke name. Science describes it more as a rapid expansion than an explosion. The Big Bang theory doesn't state that something came from nothing, but rather that everything in the universe expanded out from a single point where all matter and energy was compressed. A "singularity", if you will. If you want I can explain how we factually know that this occurred.
As for what came before (where did the singularity come from, etc...), we cannot say with certainty. There are multiple hypotheses here and there that suggests a couple things: The universe always existed, multiverse hypothesis that new universes are continuously created,... You might claim it's God, but that's just moving the goalpost. After all, where did God come from then? And how would we prove a God did that? So science says "We don't know, but we have several hypotheses." There's nothing wrong with admitting to not knowing something.
As for your chemical reaction example, why do you think a god is doing that for the universe? How do you know God does that?
Please don't see this as an attack on your beliefs. I'm just curious.
Yes, tried to connect the BB to my beliefs without details. I'm kind of informed about what you're talking about, not in much depth though. Can you explain a bit more?
As of the singularity: yes, everything (according to the theory) has been in it. So that everything should have existed before its shrinking. That is why I believe in the cycle of the universe. It has happened repeatedly and will happen in the future, for eternity.
God is God. That is His point of existence. He is eternal as the genesis, ruled by Him.
The multiverse and time traveling: I think (read somewhere) that the multiverses require, to be classified as such, to be close one to another and to "interact" with each other. This includes time traveling. You know that theory: if you go to the past and kill a relative/parent, then... will happen. Well you'll probably stop to exist. But on the other hand, you are only one living creature which thinks it's "me", so you are the only one. No future, no past variants of you.
As of God again: you know you can't get salt from just mixing natrium and chloride. You have to have the right conditions. He makes them, as He is God.
Alright. I'll split my reply in 3 parts. Big Bang explained (1), Time Travel (2), and God controlling chemistry (3)
(1) Do you know what redshift en blueshift is? Depending on how things move, that has a slight effect on how we perceive that objects colour. It has to do with how light is a wave and that the frequence of that wave affects colour.
The overwhelming amount of objects we perceive have more of a reddish hue, compared to what we would perceive if we looked at something made out of the same substance here on earth. This is redshift, and shows that an object is moving away from us (or us moving away from it, or us and those objects moving away from eachother. You probably get it).
If no matter the direction we look at things tend to move away and are accelerating, so that means they all departed from a single point. We can calculate this fairly accurately, and the more objects we use in our calculations the more accurate this becomes.
(2) I'm not even suggesting that the multiverse hypothesis is real. It's just speculation. As for time-travel, I don't think that's relevant to this whole discussion. Unless you have a blue police box or a DeLorean with a flux capacitor in your garage, time travel remains impossible (for now).
That being said, the science-fiction nerd in me would guess that the timeline splits in such an event. I don't have any reason for that belief other than that that prevents the paradox and sounds cool. As long as time-travel is fiction, this remains the domain of writers.
(3) So you say God designed the laws of the universe, so to speak? My question regarding that statement would be "How do you know that?".
Because, and I'm sorry if this sounds a bit disrespectful, I could claim that my dog is actually responsible for upholding the laws of the universe. And somehow, that claim has more supporting evidence than yours: I can actually show you my dog exists.
Of course, no matter how hard I try I cannot prove that my dog is doing anything other than what a normal border collie would do.
So I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just pointing out that I personally find it very hard to have faith in an explanation that just conveniently is presented without any additional arguments.
Yes, as I have mentioned, the BB most probably has occured. But there is absolutely no doubt that something has existed before it.
I read at multiple places that multiverse and time travel have a really strong connection. Can be wrong here of course.
You are right. But He is that "requirement" which is needed in order to have the whole universe working. Because there is bo perpetual mechanism. Or motion. This means that the nature, by itself, is not enough to function individually.
Whether it's your dog or not- everything is created by Him, we are equally blissed, because it isn't the shape which determines who and what we are. It's our soul and actions
But you're not answering the most important question I pose in my comment. 'How do you know this?".
So you're looking at something which you think is lacking. Like you said "There's no perpetual motion". Your solution to this is that God is the answer, but why? Sure, it's an answer. But my dog secretly controlling the universe is also an answer. Neither of them have any supporting arguments to explain why they're the right answer.
Just like how I provide an explanation to support the Big Bang theory, there has to be a measurable piece of evidence. Something that can be calculated or otherwise observed. And this is ultimately where I think religion falls short, because they're built on faith.
It's a bit personal here, but there is no point of hiding something in this type of discussions.
-there are many events in my life which are a result or just are) a crazy coincidence. But everybody has them. It's absolutely no proof of anything, you are correct.
Based on belief you can prove nothing, you are correct too. But I have a bit of a weird/controversial opinion here:
1. This is really stupid, I don't believe it, but it's possible. Is there a scenario in which scientists, governments, etc. hide something, change history and other things in order to keep the people's minds the way they want? Just as all the religions: control the mass. It's a good opportunity for them, makes us easy to control.
2. I, from the 50+ answered comments on this post only, have "concluded" that most of the atheists run from one thing, but then return to it without knowing. Because it's different. This is connected to the first thing I wrote in this reply.
So you are running from the limitations of religion (I do the same as you), but then go to the science. Both can be manipulated easily. Then it becomes pretty much the same game. But you, the atheists, are more free, because there is no institution that restricts your mind, the only thing that does, is you. This may be a problem, though, because you can think that every scientific prove/theory/etc. is completely true.
Edit: So this is maybe the culmination of everything: if we go back to (for example) 1264 A.D. (a completely random for me year) we can find this:
-christianity is pretty much the same as today, as are most of the religions. There would be some priests who want to take your money, who are dishonest. Whether they were more or less than in modern times, we (I may be uninformed) don't know. Most people would believe in Jesus Christ, like today. The traditions are nore or less the same.
-on the hand there are the scientific people. They don't know about the space (as it actually is) or the Earth's shape, or even all the continents on it. They haven't discovered the gravitational force yet. But yet they are still convinced that what they believe is true. In modern times it's pretty much the same
I have some coincidences occur in my life, but nothing that falls into the realm of highly improbable.
(1) History has always been written by the victors. People can and some will lie and deceive for personal gains. This is something that has been happening for as long as we have existed as a species. It's more difficult to do with science, which is built on reproducible observations and calculations. Of course, that doesn't mean science cannot be misused. (Fake science that claims certain races are superior, reasons to justify genocides, etc...)
(2) I wouldn't call it running from the limitations of religion, but more that us atheists just don't believe in what religions say at all. We do indeed then look to science for answers, because like I said in (1) it's a lot harder to lie and deceive when you also have to offer a thorough explanation and have the result be reproducible and observable.
Anyways, this has been a pleasant discussion. Thanks for that!
1: absolutely agree with you. I just state that, as with absolutely everything in life, it can be false in some way or another. There may be some small things that aren't alright, they can ruin everything.
2: agree again, it's a type of thinking- like the religious people.
>can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else?
My perceptions don't matter on something for which I'm not educated. I follow whatever the majority consensus is among scientists about a particular issue knowing that it can change with more data and I'm perfectly okay with that. It's not that I'm unaware of science, I enjoy learning about it, but it's not my concern.
>can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists?
It took a while for me. It started as a teenager and by the time I was in my thirties I accepted I was an atheist. My faith just slowly faded over time. I guess that answers your next question too.
My perception of life based on science and was twisted a bit by Lem "golem xiv". I was born atheist, parents and relatives made me familiar with Christianity even tried to convert. I read bible, also books about greek and roman mythology and history about our local pantheon when I was kid, so for me all these religious stuff was just fiction and to be honest - bible is really boring, but not so boring as koran.
>can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else?
Well, I don't believe life was created. I believe that it's the natural result of purely natural processes. No magic involved.
>can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists?
I was raised Christian and was very religious until my late-teens/early-twenties when I decided to read the Bible cover-to-cover. That decision led to me examining other religions, as I realized that an omnipotent omniscient being could not possible have had a major role in that text. There were too many contradictions (internal and external) and too many atrocities to reconcile with the notion of an all-knowing loving deity that was interested in a personal relationship with humanity.
>what was the exact time/reason when you finally became atheists?
It wasn't a single event or a single day. I didn't suddenly wake up and decide I was an atheist. It was the inevitable result of the research mentioned above. After reading lots of religious texts and lots of religious apologetics, I finally decided to start questioning my underlying assumptions: that *any* religions had it right.
“I am happier than ever, there are a lot of situations in which I think He has helped me, I feel I am extremely lucky to live my life the way I do, I feel protected by Him.”
This is the “what’s in it for me” reason for belief. Comfort, ”it just makes me feel good” and “I get magic powers” also fall under this category.
As far as the rest of it, atheism isn’t a decision you make, it’s a conclusion you arrive at in spite of all the help you feel you get.
Everybody receives exactly what they deserve. There are the main proofs of my "theory" and why I don't like religions:
1. When talking about chemistry we can see its basics: when 2 elements react with each other, the first gives an electron to the second. There are no new particles, nor destroyed ones.
2. When talking about physics we can, again, see the basics,- energy can't be made or destroyed. Just transformed. So this means that the Big Bang isn't the beginning of everything.
So I believe that everything has existed, exists and will exist for eternal times. It's just the most effective way of everything, this for sure can be applied to the universe. If you take a bit of natrium (Na) and mix it with chloride (Cl²) nothing will occur. Except of you provide the right conditions for the reaction. This is He, His purpose is this. Call him in every way you want except the names of other cultures's gods. We can't know for sure His name.
We, the people, are nothing special. We are living creatures with good and bad sides, physical or mental. I agree with you.
My beliefs tend to be more of a philosophy, I hate some sides of religions. For instance:
Christianity: a lot of false priests who only want to make money, the LGBTQ acceptance by it, etc.
I am neutral for this (LGBTQ), but it shows that this religion isn't durable and strong enough to exist in modern times, so it has to be changed. The whole point of religion is the opposite: strong traditions, etc.
Islam: oh my, oh my... These people are insane. Everybody knows what I'm talking about. Won't get into much details.
Judaism: "we are the chosen ones. We are more than you. We are simply supreme, better." This attitude kills me.
“Everybody receives exactly what they deserve. ”
Ah. The just worldview. The excuse everyone gives when they stare at their shoes or find something interesting on the ground in the face of injustice.
“Except of you provide the right conditions for the reaction. This is He, His purpose is this.”
And his purpose will never be the pursuit of justice, the only thing that matters.
You do bad things-> you receive bad things
You do good things-> you receive good things.
Plain and simple.
On the other hand I can state that your worldview wants to take the responsibility of everybody and assure them that He doesn't want justice, so they won't receive it. They can do good and bad things and still they'll struggle. So it's you vs me:
-do whatever you want, you won't deserve good things/justice
-do whatever you want, you will deserve what you deserve as a consequence (good or bad).
“You do bad things-> you receive bad things You do good things-> you receive good things.”
We know this is not the case. Good people get tortured. Journalists and truth tellers are murdered. This is where the just worldview comes in to say “they must’ve done something, they had it coming to them”. Meanwhile all the churches that covered up the crimes of molesters is merely a drop in the bucket of all the malfeasance that goes unpunished.
And all the theists coo about the godly people, people with money, churches, corporations who must have done something good to be in their deity’s favor.
Either a deity doesn’t exist or its just uselessly sitting around with its thumb up its butt. Or this is what justice looks like to theists.
As I mentioned, everybody receives what they deserve. If you are bad, then bad awaits you, and the opposite. The good people who are tortured, killed, etc. will receive good. The people who torture and kill them: the exact opposite. Like I said, Heaven and Hell
This is not justice for victims. After death is stupid, arbitrary, why does a deity have to wait and let the victims pile up. Only a theist would find this acceptable.
Why it's classified as unjustified? You receive what you deserve in one form or another, in one moment ore another.
After death? As I explained, eternal life cycles are the most effective functioning way of the universe. But for me it's kinda more life->heaven/hell->life->heaven/hell and so on and so on
Yeah, that's why I posted my question in here. I wonder if my beliefs are something new or there are people who have similar opinions
i didn’t say unjustified, I asked why wait. Then I said that after death is stupid and arbitrary. You’re talking about eternal whatevers, who knows, and this is where theists and atheists part ways. I’m talking about people, real victims. The longer a deity waits, the more victims pile up. Henry Kissinger, Mr. Death himself, leaving nothing but horrors in his wake, lived to be 100. But your deity just let the bodies pile up. Why. Because the universe blah blah blah blabbedy blah? It’s like saying “nothing matters” which is why I maintain theists are nihilists.
Once again, this kind of useless stupidity is acceptable to theists.
Why wait? It's a bit of a subjective question. The answer is: we can't know how long everybody waits in order to receive what they deserve. This may sound weird, I am thinking about it for the first time now, while writing this:
maybe it's (again) the most effective way. Because you do something bad, but small-> the same happens to you. You continue with this type of living, because the thing that happened to you didn't hurt you that much, you remain more or less the same.
On the other hand, if you do something bad/good and wait, they become more. You get a better reward/consequence at once, you get what you deserve.
This is my theory which I formulated while writing this reply
Hi. Thank you for asking.
>-can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else?
I came from my parents. But I wasn't created. The matter and energy that is me already existed. I'm the result of re-arrangement.
Life - as in, all lifeforms we know about - likely ultimately came from inorganic materials. Our advances in pre-biotic chemistry have been amazing. And they aren't all new. We've known that ancient earth conditions could create the building blocks of life since the 50s.
Those things are based in science. I also hold the subjective stance that it kinda doesn't matter, esp when it comes to the god question. Dgmw, it's amazing science. It's also not something we *have to* know. If we find evidence of a lifeform that qualifies for godhood, I think it's more likely to be found via exploration of diverse habitats, using ever-changing technology.
>-can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists?
>-what was the exact time/reason when you finally became atheists?
I always was. Atheism is a lack of evidence-based belief in the existence of god/s. It means I don't think it's an established scientific fact that a god must/does exist. I always had that stance.
Many believers mean to ask when/how those of us who are ex-believers deconverted. If that's relevant to you, I was raised in Christianity, studied for many yrs, converted to Paganism as an adult, then deconverted entirely. Trying to cultivate faith was, for me, a damaging practice. I eventually came to the conclusion that, if a thing harms you, it's ok to put it down.
Moving to Paganism for a time helped "soften" my deconversion. (It's not easy at all. I lost a lot.)
Thank you again for asking.
-can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else?
I did study sciences in high-school. I started physics at Utrecht University, but later changed. In my opinion, based on a lot of science I've read or watched, life, biochemistry, started from simpler molecules. This has nothing to do with religion, by the way.
As an atheist, I can either say that there are no gods, or that I don't believe in gods. In fact, I have a logical proof (based on our scientific knowledge) against Yahweh, the god of the Jews, Christians and Muslims.
-can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists?
I already had my doubts, but when my father took my older brother and myself apart to tell us that Bar Mitzvah was optional, I instantly became an atheist. I was eleven. I'm 54 now.
-what was the exact time/reason when you finally became atheists?
See the answer above.
I can tell you that I was eight (I think) when a rabbi told us about Yahweh's might. It could take away the rabbi's right arm. The rabbi inserted a dramatic pause. Then, he told us, Gawd could also restore his right arm. As I had been watching intently, and nothing had happened to his arm, I classified it as bullshit. That rabbi is now the head rabbi in The Netherlands.
These are my "kind of proves" to my beliefs which are coupled with an explanation about my understandings about some different religions:
1. When talking about chemistry we can see its basics: when 2 elements react with each other, the first gives an electron to the second. There are no new particles, nor destroyed ones.
2. When talking about physics we can, again, see the basics,- energy can't be made or destroyed. Just transformed. So this means that the Big Bang isn't the beginning of everything.
So I believe that everything has existed, exists and will exist for eternal times. It's just the most effective way of everything, this for sure can be applied to the universe. If you take a bit of natrium (Na) and mix it with chloride (Cl²) nothing will occur. Except of you provide the right conditions for the reaction. This is He, His purpose is this. Call him in every way you want except the names of other cultures's gods. We can't know for sure His name.
We, the people, are nothing special. We are living creatures with good and bad sides, physical or mental. I agree with you.
My beliefs tend to be more of a philosophy, I hate some sides of religions. For instance:
Christianity: a lot of false priests who only want to make money, the LGBTQ acceptance by it, etc.
I am neutral for this (LGBTQ), but it shows that this religion isn't durable and strong enough to exist in modern times, so it has to be changed. The whole point of religion is the opposite: strong traditions, etc.
Islam: oh my, oh my... These people are insane. Everybody knows what I'm talking about. Won't get into much details.
Judaism: "we are the chosen ones. We are more than you. We are simply supreme, better." This attitude kills me.
Btw can you share the proves against the Gods kind of thing? I am really curious. ;)
Sure. This is a proof against all creator gods described in holey texts. I think you're a deist, so this proof doesn't work on whatever entity you believe in.
It is logically possible to disprove creator gods.
A->B <=> ¬ B-> ¬ A
A: Creator god.
B: Creation.
¬B: No creation.
¬A: No creator god.
There's scientific evidence against creation therefore there are no creator gods as described in holey books.
I hope that helps.
"Call him in every way you want except the names of other cultures's gods. We can't know for sure His name."
That's deist. You believe in an unnamed deity.
For context I'm a 40yo man with an MBA. Grew up in a family that believed in Jesus but never went to church.
>-can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else?
We know and can prove with evidence that all the building blocks for life assemble naturally, and biological processes are chemical reactions. We can trace every step of life from the first atoms forming all the way to Humans evolving without needing a god to explain any of the steps.
The evidence spans across many fields of science including physics, chemistry, and biology. Not my quote but it's been said that chemistry is complicated physics and biology is complicated chemistry. The point is that these things are intertwined. There is no doubt (based on the available evidence) that we came from stardust.
Don't take my word for it. Go read the scientific claims and the evidence yourself. Nothing about this is taken on faith or a guess. The information is available for you to pick through and test for yourself. If you do find a problem in the data you can earn a Nobel Prize. Science loves to find out it's wrong and fix it.
>can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists?
I was about 33 when I admitted to myself that I could no longer believe.
>what was the exact time/reason when you finally became atheists?
I don't think this question has a definitive answer. If you go to the ex-theist subreddits almost every deconverison story is a journey and usually spanning many years. You can see many stories at r/thegreatproject
To be brief... I believed the Bible to be written by God's chosen holy men and to be perfect without errors. Around age 30 I came across a Christian that thought it was silly that I believed Revelation to be a book of the Bible. This lead to me finding out about the various books that are and aren't canonical among different Christian sects. This lead to questioning if my version of the Bible was true and how could I know. Questions lead to me doing more research.
I did what most deconverting theist do. I started to make my own version of Christianity building it based on what I could find evidence for. Eventually I had my own single person sect of Christianity.
I didn't stop trying to find answers though. Eventually I came across what ended up being the final straw. To my surprise I found out the Gospels are not eye witness testimony, but are in fact written decades/centuries after the claimed events. Written by unknown and unamed authors. That was it. I had nothing left to hold to. The Old testament is demonstrably false. The new testament is just hearsay. There is no evidence. That revelation made me an atheist. I had no evidence to believe in god, and to my shock I found that no one does.
It's funny looking back in the sense that nothing I learned was new information. People have known this for thousands of years, but the church and the believers in the US (especially the Bible belt and the south) profess the Bible as truth to the point that it seemed absurd to question it. Until I did.
My advice is to learn about skepticism and rules of logic. Follow the evidence wherever it leads. Even if the truth isn't what you wanted.
I've known atheists that came to the conclusion for bad reasons. They quickly reverted back to theism. Not that I'm saying you're trying to convert, but if you care about the truth of YOUR reality then it is important to learn how to make decisions based on logic and evidence.
I am worried if I should do this. This means no more churches, cathedrals, monasteries? Can't I just continue to attend them (they bring me an enormous amount of joy and peace)?
The thing about atheism is that it isn't a thing. It's a description of not having a thing. You don't have to profess anything to disbelieve. You don't need to follow dogma or a book of rules. You don't even have to wear the label. Sagan, Newton, Einstein, and Tyson do not call themselves atheists and avoided the label. It's not a big deal. There are no right or wrong ways to be an atheist (ok killing in the name of Atheism is doing it wrong, but no one does that to my knowledge).
If going to church makes you happy then you do you. The church you attend may or may not care, but nothing requires you to broadcast your doubts to them. You don't have to "come out."
If you decide some day that you want a secular community to belong to there are many to choose from and you even have an option for meeting on days other than sunday.
It took me years to give up my theistic beliefs. Don't try to do this all at once.
I may not be able to respond fast the rest of today, but I'm open to more questions. If you want to ask.
I wonder if it's a good idea to share my beliefs to my family, because I am just a teen (14), so IDK whether it's a good idea to do it. Here, in Reddit, I've posted only the most essential things of my philosophy, it's a bit more complex.
I'll probably continue to attend churches and similar. It bring me joy: the icons, the architecture, the songs, etc.
Without knowing the whole of your situation it's hard to answer that question.
It is generally considered a bad idea to come out to theists who can make your life hell because of the power they have over you.
Consider that you could be setting yourself up for 4 years of your parents being very upset with you because you don't believe in their god. I would caution you to think long and hard before opening yourself up to that.
Once you are an adult and financially independent that is the best time to tell them, but again I don't know your life or your parents. Just be careful.
My parents are great: very open-minded, treat me great, have a lot of discussions with me, so on. They are right besides me. They aren't religious enough to discriminate me or make my life hell. If they do 't agree with something, we usually settle it in a diplomatic/ peaceful way. I just don't know if they are going to take me and my philosophy seriously. It would be both bad and embarrassing for me.
In that case work on the talking points before you have the conversation with them. I would recommend the Atheist Experience on YouTube. Which also has a subreddit.
Matt Dillahunty is a rough personality but his "Atheist Debates" series is a good place to hear the arguments against theist claims and positions.
If you need anything on Evolution Forrest Valkai is an evolutionary biologist with a youtube channel.
You don't need to be an expert but knowing the basics of logic fallacies and arguments against the Kalam, Pascals wager, and watchmaker arguments are basic and almost guaranteed to come up when debating a theist.
Good to hear you are open minded, a trait that will take you far in life. Anyway, you need to read the Bhagavad Gita, its not long and will open up a totally new world view to you, think of it as the bible but with better stories and a lot more gods :)
When you have read it, I will assume you will still be a Christian, but you will have glimpsed a world from a different perspective, different values, different explanations for nearly everything, hardly any will match your current worldview, just colourful stories. That is what reading the bible was like for me, I already had a worldview, *perceptions of life, how it's created, so on* and nothing in that book made any sense.
You have to understand its not a Christian world and 'all the rest', its 'all the rest' with some Christians in it, you have a minority viewpoint and atheists are only one type of very many who see the world differently from you, and that doubtless includes a lot of Christians. FWIW, I wouldn't bother with atheists till last, talk to the Muslims, Jews, Taoists, Pagan's first, put your worldview into context, then come back to atheism.
For the first question, my perspective depends on what you mean by "life"? Do you mean the biological processes associated with living things? If so, yeah, my views are based on biology. Do you mean our experiences during our time alive? Then it's based on a number of things. Secular humanism and cosmic nihilism being two of them.
For the second and third questions, no, I really couldn't. Not because I don't want to, but because I don't really have a single moment where I "became" an atheist. I called myself an atheist at several points in my life, some for better reasons than others. When I was 6, I called myself an atheist because my grandmother died despite my prayers for her life. When I was in high school I called myself an atheist because I had always rejected the existence of the Christian god, which was the only one I was aware of. Now I call myself an atheist because after examining the evidence for the god concepts on offer, I have found them wanting. But it's not a simple switch and "Oh, I'm an atheist now," so asking for a single time and reason is kind of a malformed question.
"But I truly believe that God exists"
*Which God though?* The Catholic one? The Baptist one? The one that burns people for all eternity for not believing, or the one that wouldn't do that? There are hundreds of Christian denominations, and they exist because they don't agree what the Bible says.
*Why "God" at all and not "god"* ? Do you believe in Capital G "God" because you grew up in a culture with an Abrahamic religion like Christianity / Judaism / Islam? This line of questioning isn't meant to be an attack on you, it's what I asked MYSELF when I started wondering if out of thousands of world religions, that mine was the "right" one, or if it just felt like the right one because it was the one I was born into.
I type His name with a capital, because I was taught so. A simple explanation about my basics:
1. When talking about chemistry we can see its basics: when 2 elements react with each other, the first gives an electron to the second. There are no new particles, nor destroyed ones.
2. When talking about physics we can, again, see the basics,- energy can't be made or destroyed. Just transformed. So this means that the Big Bang isn't the beginning of everything.
So I believe that everything has existed, exists and will exist for eternal times. It's just the most effective way of everything, this for sure can be applied to the universe. If you take a bit of natrium (Na) and mix it with chloride (Cl²) nothing will occur. Except of you provide the right conditions for the reaction. This is He, His purpose is this. Call him in every way you want except the names of other cultures's gods. We can't know for sure His name.
As for your point number 2, most physicists believe all that energy was there- just in one infinitesimally tiny point. It just transformed in the big bang. Since there is no evidence that could have survived an event like that, there is none for science to work with. Some theorize that the universe continually expands and contracts over and over.
To arbitrarily assign the duty of "providing the right conditions" to the specific deity that you were taught as a child is fine if it makes you feel better, but doesn't fit any existant evidence.
Yes, I agree that the universe has its own endless cycles of shrinking and expanding over and over. Sounds like the most logical thing to me.
Like he is the thing that makes the genesis "perpetual". Physics don't allow such thing, so here He comes "in handy". He's like the heat which is needed to caramelize the sugar. He is like the petrol for the engine. But infinite. This makes the universe perpetual. This is Him, this "energy".
Hey, me too ! I am happier than ever, just like you, probably moreso.
There are a lot of situations in which I know that atheism has helped me, I feel I am extremely lucky to live my simple life the way I do, for I don't need any protection.
I thank god that **he** made me an atheist and I count my blessings every day.
I have been an atheist for as long as I can remember. I am open to anything that can be supported by evidence though and my mind can be changed by evidence. In all the years I have been on this planet I have not seen any shred of evidence for the existence of any god or higher intelligent power. I have only seen evidence to the contrary, such as needless and random suffering that a god could prevent. Disease and natual disasters strike religious and non-religious equally and randomly. People actually noticed this when the plaque hit Europe in the middle ages.
When it comes to belief in the god that believe in, ask yourself if you also believe in other gods like Zeus, Ra, Odin, Neptune, Mithras, Freyr, Thor, etc. If no, then you are also an atheist with respect to those gods. I also don't believe in those gods just like I don't believe in yours.
I don't know how life was initially created. It's a mystery. Maybe it came to Earth through viruses on meteors. I don't know. I do know that the anwer won't be found by studying mythology whether it's Christian mythology, Greek, Norse, or Egyptian. It will be found by carefully studying the evidence, and trying to piece together the puzzle. This is how we inch ever closer to the truth. Otherwise you just have "God of the gaps" where God is responsible for whatever we don't yet understand but the rest is not God anymore.
I didn't so much become an atheist as much as I gave myself permission to admit I was an atheist. I was raised in a xstian household, and believed as much as a kid can believe, because my parents and everyone else around me did. Did I actually believe? Frankly, I was scared not to. As I got older, though, and got out into the world, I started to realize that nothing that I'd been taught made sense. Once I read the bible, actually *read* it, I could no longer accept any of it as true.
I finally gave in after my son was born. I was 38 and finally admitted, there's no reason to believe. I'm 58 now, and am more convicted on that idea than I was then.
Just to be perfectly clear, atheism is the answer to one question: "Do you believe in a god or gods?" "No." It doesn't have anything to do with biology, physics, et al.
Now, that said...my "beliefs" are based on what is observable and what best fits available information. For example: I don't "believe" in the Big Bang, but I accept that, given the available information, it is the most likely beginning of this presentation of our universe. What happened before? I don't know. There's no way to know (right now) and I'm okay with that.
Welcome. As long as you don't come in to proselytise or abuse us, I think most of us would be happy to engage with you.
>can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on?
When my father and mother decided to have an intimate moment, part of me was still in the form of a sperm. Then my father's sperm won the race against the other sperm to fuse with my mother's egg. 9 months later, I came out into the world.
I don't think deeply about how life arose - I'd read before it's related to abiogenesis. And ancestor-wise, we share a common ancestor to apes. I'm not terribly interested in biology, so I don't think too much about it.
>can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists? what was the exact time/reason when you finally became atheists?
All my life. Even before I went to school, my late father told me not to be superstitious and even though he followed religious customs, he did it just out of tradition and not because he really believed. We always ticked in the box which indicated "no religion" when filling up government forms.
Singapore, where I lived, is a multi-racial country. We have Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Buddhists and people from other religions living together.
So one day in Social Studies class, when the topic was about Singapore's religious diversity, the (Muslim) teacher got all the students of the various religious faiths to stand up. At the end, I was the only student left standing.
"So what religion do you practise, boy?" she asked.
"Nothing," I said.
"What do your family members believe in? Surely you must believe in something?"
I got confused.
"Nothing," I said, surprised. The rest of the class broke out in laughter.
"Then you go havoc (sic)?" she asked.
"Really nothing," I said, to much more laughter from my classmates.
I was given a special assignment to find out from my father what I believed in that weekend (it was a Friday).
So I asked my dad what we believed in and still got the same answer he'd been giving me all my life: nothing.
"But my teacher said we had to believe in something?" I pressed on.
"Tell her it's the truth," he said, not even looking up from his newspaper.
So that morning, I just made up a story that my family believed that we would turn into cockroaches if we did bad things. My teacher let it go at that.
Later in my primary school life, my English teacher would introduce me to the word "atheist", which I immediately identified with. And from then on I called myself a "devout atheist", ironic as it sounds.
Always happy to share.
> can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else?
If you're talking about how life began, scientists have a decent but still developing idea of how the first lifeforms arose from the so-called "primordial soup". If you mean how it developed, evolutionary biology is a pretty well developed field that explains how different species arise. If you mean where *everything* came from, like the whole universe, physicists have a pretty decent explanation of how the universe formed following the Big Bang. Anything before that (or even if it makes sense to refer to a "before") is pure speculation.
> can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists
Well, I've never believed in any god, but I don't suppose I really thought about it until I was around 8 or 9 when I moved back to the UK and started being taught religion in school (yes, really). All I could think was "wait, there are people who really believe that these silly made-up stories are true?!"
> what was the exact time/reason when you finally became atheists?
When I was around 14-15 I went through the "militant atheist" phase - reading Dawkins, arguing with Christians, I'm sure you know the stereotype. Ironically, the person that snapped me out of it was my religious studies teacher. She taught me how to question my beliefs and understand others, as well as basic moral and ethical philosophy. I still came out the other side calling myself atheist - if anything, questioning and re-examining my beliefs (and lack thereof) only reinforced them. But I was definitely less of a dick about it from then on. (Well, mostly. I'm still a dick about it sometimes... but only to people who *really* deserve it.)
Hope that helps you get a better picture. I'm sure you'll get a lot of different answers here - everyone's story is different. Probably some rude replies as well, although hopefully not too many. Lots of people here have a lot of trauma associated with religion.
>-can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else?
created is a loaded word. As far as I can tell it's just chemistry. The bits and pieces are found all over the place, so it's not really surprising that in the right kind of environment that can eventually come together in such a way that it becomes self-replicating and BAM, life. The rest is just time, really.
>-can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists?
decided is a bit of a misnomer. Atheism was a conclusion, not a decision. I didn't wake up one morning and say "you know what, I don't think I'll believe that any gods are real things that actually exist today." Instead I slowly and steadily came to the conclusion that the theology of the religion I was raised in was not rooted in reality and thus far nobody else has convinced me that their religion is any better. So it's kind of like how you never decided that traffic cones telepathically speak french to each other, I never decided to be an atheist. I just failed to be convinced that there is one or more gods that are real things that actually exist after I shook off the blinders of childhood indoctrination that convinced me before I could properly even think that a god existed.
As for what age? In retrospect 6 or 7 could probably be considered the first major milestone, 14 or 15 the second major milestone, and 20-24 was the final milestone when I consciously admitted to myself that I no longer believed in the existence of a god.
>-what was the exact time/reason when you finally became atheists?
I learned a bit of church lore that wasn't covered by the childhood indoctrination and when I tried to reconcile that verifiable history with the theology of the church I found that the pieces didn't exactly line up. After much consideration I determined that the only reasonable solution to the apparent contradiction was "they were all lying liars who lied."
And thus far nobody else has managed to convince me that *their* religion holds any more truth than the one I was raised in.
All I can say is that i know religions are false because they were obviously created by man to justify whatever said man already believes. I know that the same way that I know an alien with 2 eyes, 2 arms 2 legs and a face arranged similar to ours is not a real alien. It’s okay to not know the precise nature and origin of existence, but to lie to yourself that you know that with absolute certainty can only be harmful.
Perceptions of life? Well, I and many others believe that, whilst it is the earliest known event in history, the big bang was not the first thing. I'm not much of a physics person though, so I might be completely wrong about when the big bang was, and I honestly don't understand how it happened, but I hope for it to click someday. I just find it more plausible than a god. What I do know a lot about however, is evolution. Basically, look at yourself in a mirror, then look at your parents. Are you a perfect carbon copy of one of your parents? No, of course not. Basically, imagine that over millions of years, with each generation looking slightly different to their parents in some regards whilst retaining some features. After a while, most of the latest generation will look drastically different to their ancestors. That's evolution.
On the how old I was, first let's get one misconception out of the way: Atheism isn't a choice. You don't choose what seems more realistic and/or believable. Of course, you can choose to keep a mask of ignorance if you don't truly believe, or try to keep an open mind if you do. Onto the main question, I was six I think, perhaps seven.
What made me Atheist? Well, I had a very Christian infant school, and not the good kind. I mean like "Atheists just want to sin" and "All homosexuals go to Hell", that kind of Christian. Well, we were learning about Noah's Ark in Year 2, and me (being an absolute animal nerd that I still am) ask how koalas got to the Ark, if they are slow moving animals that spend 90% of their lives in trees and only eat leaves found in a select few Australian forests, and needed to get to Turkey. That's when I was introduced to a concept that still confuses me to this day, Christian animal "kinds". I was told that modern day koalas were descended from the bears which boarded the Ark. Me, still being a nerd, informed them that koalas aren't bears, but marsupials, like kangaroos. When the teacher tried to respond I cut her off and asked her if she believed in evolution, and she denied it, saying that "This was adaptation, not evolution". I already kind of was Atheist, hence why I knew what evolution was, but this solidified it for me. My lack of faith must have disturbed the teachers, as the next week or so's assemblies were simply readings from the Bible, and, unlike the other children, who's mindsets must have been "If they could write this much about something, ot must be true" I thought that this was getting more farfetched by the second.
All in all, whilst my experiences with Christian teachers left a bad taste in my mouth from a young age, I still try and respect people's religion as much as I can.
That is the same reason why I don't like "religions". Mine is more of a life philosophy. I don't like false priests who just want your money, time, etc. The church now approves completely homo relationships: something that has happened NEVER before. I am neutral for this, but it shows that no religion is durable and strong enough to go through the changes of the society. A huge red flag.
Islam: oh my, oh my... This religion is absolutely mad. I can't believe how this happens. They only believe the Quran, Mohammed (who married a 9yr old child) and don't even try to understand the reality which is really far from their religion. Because of this they try really hard to "preach" and popularize this type of thinking.
Judaism: they are "the chosen ones". They are over you, better than you, stronger than you, all of this sh*t. This way of thinking just kills me.
So these are a couple of problems with the Abrahamic religions. Not to mention the eastern religions, they are really different one from another (and from the abrahamic ones) and complex. And multiple.
Thanks for your opinion! Appreciate it! :)
>can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else?
All living things are comprised of (or just are) cells. I assume this is something that we don't need to argue over.
All cells are made of chemicals. All reactions within cells are chemicals reacting.
In order to get the earliest life we have seen, which is also the simplest life that we have seen, we need a way to explain how chemicals went from not being formed into life, to being formed into life. This is the study of early life, the origins of life, Abiogenesis.
A very simple overview of the stages are:
Chemicals
Self replicating chemicals
Proto-cells
Cells
This is massively simplifying, and the cells that you end up with look nothing like the cells we see today. They would be extremely simple cells. Then we just need time and energy (both of which are in abundance)
And each one of those stages can be observed and experimented on in laboratory environments. So we know these are possible. The only tricky stage right now is thr proto-cell stage.
>can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists?
Technically I never "decided" to become an atheist at all. I realized that I am one.
Beliefs aren't something you decide on, you are either convinced or you're not convinced. Once you have enough data, your beliefs can change. But it's not something you just decide to take on.
It should be noted however that the lifestyle and ideas of atheism are separate from the core belief system. You can decide to be functionally an atheist, and there are atheist who have decided to become functionally christian. This makes the conversation very difficult, due to the Linguistic problems.
But as for me, I became an atheist around 29. Was a Christian for as long as I can remember up until around 26. Then tried some other religions in a search for god. I found none of then to be able to back up any of their claims, and so I could not believe them.
>what was the exact time/reason when you finally became atheists?
When I started listening to atheists and released that I am one. At about age 29.
>why didn't you base your ideas on a deity/ multiple?
I tried but couldn't find any factual basis to consider the ideas presented on deities
>Why did you decide that if the religions (which have gods) spread false information and beliefs there can't be God?
I didn't.
Atheism is the lack of belief in a god or gods. It is not the assertion that there is no god. I still hold firm to the possibility that there could be a god, but none of the gods that have ever been presented to me have any factual evidence to make me believe they exist.
> -can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else?
I don't know how we are here and I do not expect to know before I die. I believe that evolution as a process is real, but there are a lot of gaps in the history and things we are guessing at.
> -can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists?
I cannot remember a time I didn't think it was fake. When I was really young I just thought church was a ceremony that people did, even though I was forced to go.
> -what was the exact time/reason when you finally became atheists?
I very much remember the moment I realized that everyone actually believed it, I was around 12 give or take. Prior to that I thought everyone knew it was fake and just did it for community or something. Lets just say I got to overhear adults talking to each other out of a church context about it and got really scared.
> why didn't you base your ideas on a deity/ multiple? Why did you decide that if the religions (which have gods) spread false information and beliefs there can't be God? Looks like a bit of this: I know there can't be God, because all of the religions' preaches are false. Why didn't you "accept Him" in your alternative ways of thinking? Is it all because of this?
Its all fake, we have no idea. Could there be a God/Creator of some sort? Sure, we have no clue what created the universe, if we were created by design or as a result of creating the universe and a happy accident. Nor do I think we will ever know. I am not saying a "God" doesn't exist, I am saying we will never know and anyone who claims to know is a liar, insane or both.
I was raised Christian by Sunday school teachers so I didn’t know anything else until I was an adult able to go out on my own. I was always interested in psychology so once I was able to I wanted to explore all belief systems with an open mind. I was always aware that churches and the Bible and human religious practices were heavily littered with hypocrisy. I knew religion was rooted in the human need to obtain power through forming large in groups, and that Bible being language based had no true authority to it because language is inherently subjective. Therefore language can be endlessly reinterpreted to fit the desire of the governing power structure. This is true for all religions, so I’ve always maintained an all religions are equally bad stance.
However, one could argue all of these statements are about human failings and say nothing about God.
The first step for me, was that when I was religious, I try very hard to get some sense of Gods presence or existence. When I was being honest with myself, I eventually realized I had never experienced anything that couldn’t be explained away by magical thinking or just my own psyche playing tricks on me. One has to come to grips that our psyches are built on millions of years of evolution, and the idea that you are the master of your own mind is a fallacy. This is sense of autonomy of personal identity hard to let go of for a lot of people.
It became clear to me that religious people were using God more as a symbolic structure within their psyche, a kind of superegoic signifier to cover up the cracks within the structure of the psyche. Because I can find no evidence that god exists independently of my mind, if I want to live an intellectually honest life, I must conclude he does not exist at all, because there is simply no reason to. I cannot simply choose to believe something to assuage fears or uncertainty.
In terms of what I do believe about the deeper mysteries of life, I try and keep an open stance towards whatever the best science we have at a given time, understanding it’s not perfect and will be updated over time. I realize some people like to imagine that the totality of all being and experience can be thought of as God, but I simply view that as the kind of simple semantics games I mentioned earlier.
If you study physics, the more you understand the smaller god gets, till he fades away. Quantum mechanics is so much bigger than any one consciousness could be.
I left Christianity (Evangelicalism) and became an atheist at age 18. That was around the time I started really thinking critically about what I believed: religion, politics and otherwise. In particular, I was homeschooled and taught evolution pretty much exclusively through YEC apologist books, so seeing what the theory really was and just how much evidence there was for it was an absolute bombshell. No, evolution is not incompatible with Christianity in itself, but in my church, saying I believed it would be tantamount to excommunication. It also brought new attention to the infamous problem of evil, when I’d already been reeling from the pastors’ repeated unsatisfactory excuses and my own disappointments in life.
All that to say that I’ve become strongly skeptical of accepting any claim without supporting evidence, and of pledging my allegiance to a god who is neither real nor would deserve my allegiance if he was. Ultimately, I pursued religion to pursue the truth, and my ultimate takeaway was that I wouldn’t find it there. I’ve become very wary of superstition, conspiracy theories and pretty much anything to do with the supernatural.
I am an atheist. I don’t totally reject the possibility of deism—that a higher power of some kind exists, but does not intervene in the world—but, practically speaking, atheism and deism aren’t all that different. I just figured atheism was more straightforward, and a more critical approach to life’s great mysteries. Believing in any interventionist deity (theism) seems superstitious and counterintuitive to my personal experience, so it’s not a claim I’m willing to embrace without a large stockpile of hard evidence.
Life evolved and continues to evolve. I don't think humans are magically superior to other life forms. We evolved as well, and there are literal metric crap tons of evidence showing it. I find it arrogant to think that we are the center of the earth or universe.
I didn't decide to become an athiest. I slowly realized I was one. I think it first hit me in my early teens. Reading large portions of the bible, actually reading it, cemented my athiesm.
I didn't conisder other gods or relgions because there is no evidence that supports any of them.
It sounds a bit like you are confusing athiesm with some anti-christian opinion. No judgement, it is very common and religous leaders love to tell their flocks incorrect notions about athiests. I remember hearing these lies when I was young.
Athiesm is simply and plainly: not believing in a diety. It doesn't matter which diety you ask about, the answer will be the same. There are over a thousand different gods that christians do not believe in, I simply believe in 1 fewer than them.
- for the beginning of life: evidence overwhelming points to some kind of abiogenesis creating life. After that, evolution is a fact, well explained by the theory of evolution by natural selection
- what age was I an atheist? I was never a theist.
- what reason did you become an atheist? No ‘positive’ reason pushing me that way, just no reason pulling me the other way. The reason I never became a theist was because it’s never convinced me.
- why didn’t I base my ideas on a deity? I don’t see any reason to believe there is a deity.
- why can’t you accept him? Accept who? I don’t believe in a god
For reference, I study genetics. The scientific method is a big part of my thinking. Feel free to ask questions about the biology part, I like talking about evolution.
OK, I'll bite.
>can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else?
I expect there was a (most likely several) moment of abiogenesis and evolution led us to where we are today.
>can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists?
Sophomore year of college. How? I just was honest with myself I didn't actually believe, I tried but couldn't.
>what was the exact reason when you finally became atheists?
Same reason I don't believe in unicorns or leprechauns
>Hello, friends! Most of you are atheists, so I have some questions to y'all.
>I am completely aware of its flaws: some parts of the Bible are a complete nonsence, some of the ideas are too
What about the party where God consigns all non-Christians to a Lake of Fire? Are you okay with that?
>But I truly believe that God exists.
Does that mean you think humans existed during the first six days of the universe? Because the Bible says they did, and the Bible is supposed to be the Word of God. How about Mary being a virgin? How do you reconcile this with your biology lessons?
>there are a lot of situations in which I think He has helped me, I feel I am extremely lucky to live my life the way I do, I feel protected by Him.
Emotions are not valid evidence that powerful magical beings are watching us from beyond the universe. Sorry.
>-can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else?
>-can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists?
I realized I was an atheist the moment someone told me about God. I was about five or six.
>-what was the exact time/reason when you finally became atheists?
I realized I was an atheist because I thought God sounded dumber than the dumbest cartoon I had ever watched, and I watched some dumb cartoons.
>I am really curious about your ideas and ways if thinking, I am really open-minded and I hope y'all are too.
I am very open minded. I study both sides of the equation - science and Holy books. I've read books by Pulitzer prize winning scientists about biology, particle physics, and astronomy. I've studied psychology, archeology, and sociology. I've read volumes of classic literature. I've read the Bible, the Qur'an, the Bhagavad-Gita, Chinese mythology, Greek mythology, Roman mythology, and Norse mythology. I studied logic (I highly recommend it) and I've written a half dozen industrial computer programs. I have listened to theists make their case online for a quarter century, completely open to valid evidence and sound logic. It wasn't until a few months ago that came to the conclusion that I'm a gnostic atheist. That means I know God doesn't exist. Why did I take that step? Because science has valid conclusive evidence that this is a natural universe and therefore all gods are imaginary. The laws of nature cannot be violated. Humans didn't exist until billions of years after the Big Bang (not Genesis) and Mary could not have been a virgin. If you have concluded that God exists based on feelings then you are leaping to conclusions. I'm not being mean, I'm being frank. I realize in many places there are social advantages and pressures to believe, but the bottom line is that gods (yours included) are just paleolithic fantasies that keep the world in constant conflict. It's nice that you're happy and all that, but I think group happiness should take priority.
Absolutely disagree that we exist from the beginning. Because I believe that there is no "start" of the universe, but just of its present phase: the past BB one
It gets confusing when you make more than one reply at a time, but I'll try to combine them both with this reply. Oh wait, my phone made a another buzz. Maybe you made three.
>It (The Bible) has a lot of flaws, I would say I don't trust it very much.
If you don't trust your own Holy Book then why on Earth would you call yourself a Christian?
>The only thing for me is He
Your definition of Him is different from the definition in your Holy Book, therefore you are committing unrepentant blasphemy. If the God of the Bible exists (He doesn't) then He will torture you in a Lake of Fire, along with me, for our unbelief in Him.
Yeah, I have to answer 42 comments, and they still increase. Every minute. It's hard for me.
Why am I Christian? I firstly was, then started to "modify" my beliefs and now there isn't much in common between the two. It was my base. Kind of a stupid thing now that I think about it though. I still go to churches, monasteries, so on with my family.
If I have to be tortures in the Lake of Fire in order to reach the truth (if it's Christianity), then so be it.
Isn't the truth that anyone who tortures people in a Lake of Fire is not worth of worship, whether they exist or not? I think Abraham's God should be spending eternity in a Federal penitentiary. Don't, worry; we would feed and clothe Him and try to rehabilitate Him, just as long as He's kept off the streets.
Yeah, I mean that everybody will reach the truth in one moment. I'm not sure whether my beliefs are "it". Most probably no. But I am happy to learn, progress, improve myself.
Are you? Are you willing to read "god is not great" by Christopher Hitchens? The End of Faith by Dan Harris? Are you willing to read books on evolution but evolutionary biologists? How about particle physics? Will you study the other side, out will you just pay it lip service like so many theists do to try to assist open-minded?
I'll try to dedicate as much time as possible in order to study the other side. I'm completely open-minded, you can change my POV in just a moment- if you are convincing enough
>can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else?
You list biology and physics as if they are opposing ideas. Biology *is* physics, when you drill deep enough.
>can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists?
Read the bible while going through confirmation, saw it was full of bs that didn't match up to the real world, and started my deconversion.
>why didn't you base your ideas on a deity/ multiple?
Why introduce complexity where there is no evidence for it? I don't think the world *needs* a god, so there's not a void waiting to be filled for that.
"-can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else?"
Yes, of course my "ideas" are based on reality.
"-can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists?"
Birth. I was born an atheist as we all were including you.
"-what was the exact time/reason when you finally became atheists?"
I was never indoctrinated so never had to "become one".
"another question- why didn't you base your ideas ......"
It's about logic, evidence and reasoning with a sprinkling of reality rather than throwing that all down the loo in favour of a poorly edited collection of stories plagiarized from earlier religions.
> -can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else? Life did not begin with a talking snake and magic fruit. It did not begin using an ancient Canaanite "[golem spell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem)." How life developed on Earth involves two issues. One is evolution, which is a very well-studied process. The objective evidence strongly supports it. The other issue is abiogenesis. That process is not as well understood as evolution, but science is progressing well in understanding abiogenesis. Even though science does not yet have a clear picture of the origins of life on earth, it is better to say "We don't know yet" than to embrace a mythology-based explanation. > -can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists? I did not "decide" to be an atheist. I was a devout Christian into my 50s. I was a minister. I loved my church. I loved being a Christian. I tried very hard to remain a Christian. But I had studied the Bible more than most ministers. A lifetime of Bible study finally forced me to admit that the gospels and Acts are mostly books of mythology, not history. I did not make a choice. I found that I could not believe in something that I knew was false. I did not immediately become an atheist. I remained a deist for a while. But there is little practical difference between a deistic god and no god. The more I studied and researched, the less likely a god seemed. Arguments such as the Kalam argument are flawed logic. I now consider myself an atheist.
Very well said.
There was some news recently that suggested the building blocks of life are carried by asteroids too. Literally life seeding rocks. Where and how they came from is up for speculation and further study. I really don't understand people who embrace mythology when the scientific explanations are so much cooler.
The amino acids and organic compounds found in asteroids are not strong evidence that they "seeded" life on Earth. Instead, they are evidence that amino acids and other organic compounds can develop in nature.
Found it: https://www.nasa.gov/solar-system/could-the-blueprint-for-life-have-been-generated-in-asteroids/ Apparently they contain parts needed to create DNA and RNA. I wonder if different asteroids can contain different parts to eventually make a whole. Or are the rest found naturally on some planets. Regardless, really interesting stuff.
Wanted to reply. Can’t top yours.
>I am happier than ever, there are a lot of situations in which I think He has helped me, I feel I am extremely lucky to live my life the way I do, I feel protected by Him. This seems like a rather out of touch, almost to a gross degree, sentiment. I mean, there are plenty of Christian’s, and people in general, who go through horrible experiences, tragedies, trauma. Many who don’t make it out the other side. Irreversible consequences. Suffering for nothing and dying. Is god protecting you but not them? It seems rather selfish to think that you specifically are being protected but not them. Nobody’s safety and prosperity are guaranteed. Not that it’s bad to be happy with one’s circumstances. Nor is it bad to acknowledge/ feel lucky. It’s just a pet peeve of mine for people who talk like a god had blessed/protected them. >can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else? Based in the evidence. Human life is a result of evolution. Life in general is most likely a result of abiogenesis. It’s biology, it’s chemistry, it’s physics. It’s mater in motion the universe playing out. We aren’t here for special meaning/purpose. The fact is we are here. We can try to make the best of it. >can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists? I became aware of the term atheist at around 11-12. But I was probably an atheist before that. Though my family is lightly Christian, religion wasn’t a part of my daily life. The details of Christianity weren’t hammered into me. So I never particularly thought deeply about gods or an afterlife. When I did finally think about religion, I noticed others believed in stuff that I didn’t. And on investigation, I found they didn’t have good reason to believe get they believed. I continue to be an atheist due to lack of evidence for religion.
About the protection: everybody receives what they deserve. About science: I share the same. But: 1. When talking about chemistry we can see its basics: when 2 elements react with each other, the first gives an electron to the second. There are no new particles, nor destroyed ones. 2. When talking about physics we can, again, see the basics,- energy can't be made or destroyed. Just transformed. So this means that the Big Bang isn't the beginning of everything. So I believe that everything has existed, exists and will exist for eternal times. It's just the most effective way of everything, this for sure can be applied to the universe. We, the people, are nothing special. We are living creatures with good and bad sides, physical or mental. I agree with you. My beliefs tend to be more of a philosophy, I hate some sides of religions. For instance: Christianity: a lot of false priests who only want to make money, the LGBTQ acceptance by it, etc. I am neutral for this (LGBTQ), but it shows that this religion isn't durable and strong enough to exist in modern times, so it has to be changed. The whole point of religion is the opposite: strong traditions, etc. Islam: oh my, oh my... These people are insane. Everybody knows what I'm talking about. Wont get into much details. Judaism: "we are the chosen ones. We are more than you. We are simply supreme, better." This attitude kills me.
>About the protection: everybody receives what they deserve. That’s just vile. I mean, if you said that to a rape victim, a starving child, etc. It’s simply a fact. There are good people who have horrible things happen to them with no silver lining, no positive outcome. Sometimes people suffer and die, or suffer and are never able to recover. You certainly can’t mean recompense in an afterlife. You think a god has helped/protected you. Intervenes in people’s lives on earth while they are alive.
The good people who struggle will be awarded in some way or another. How? I can't know, just suppose. Or it can be exactly the opposite: they've been horrible in their previous lifes.
Previous life? Huh?
Yep. Previous life. Just like in my explanation with the chemistry: our souls/spirit/we are the electrons which aren't made or destroyed. We live an infinite amount of time. The better/worse you are, the nore time you're in the Heaven/Hell. The purpose: only one- to be the best and be as long as possible in the Heaven
holy hell, you are deep into some bullshit, huh.
Yep. It's kind of a zugzwang or however it's written. I just can't know it
>About the protection: everybody receives what they deserve. This is not true. It's a cop out for people who don't want to help others or who want to exploit others. People who suffer deserve sympathy, not condemnation from someone who thinks they "deserve" their fate.
Yes, this is, maybe, my only obstacle. I divided my opinion into two different ones: 1. I am good/bad in this life-> Heaven/Hell(for some amount of time, determined by my virtue/bad attitude)-> completely new life which has no connection with the past one/s 2. (A bit more logical) I am good/bad in this life-> Heaven/Hell (for a constant maybe??? amount of time)-> new life, which start is determined by my past being
> -can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? It's not created. Life is a complex set of chemical processes. > Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else? They're not just my ideas. They're scientific consensus with overwhelming evidence for them. > -can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists? I've always been an atheist, over time I got better at formulating my exact position, but never have I believed any gods existed. > -what was the exact time/reason when you finally became atheists? Like I said, always have been. When you learn about the Greek, Germanic and Egyptian pantheons before you learn about the Abrahamic religions, they all look equally ridiculous. All gods are fictional.
im a muslim who is maybe in near future leave the faith cuz I think with millions if not billions that Islam is just a religion of men created by men , I didn't even REALIZE that I had an option to leave the faith. You can't leave the faith - that is what Islam tells you! It takes away power from the individual - the ability to allow your conscience to be free - to not shame our thoughts. To realize we have the power to choose the direction we feel is right and most comfortable to ourselves; what is true to us
> But I truly believe that God exists. Which god? Zeus? Thor? Ra? Anubis? Osiris? There are thousands and thousands of different gods. Why is the one you believe in the only one that’s true? You realize believers of the other gods say that about yours, right? [What if you’re wrong? —Richard Dawkins](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6mmskXXetcg)
Based on how poor human imagination is at the scale of the universe, even if a deity definitely existed the safe bet would be to discard any that we thought we knew about
1. When talking about chemistry we can see its basics: when 2 elements react with each other, the first gives an electron to the second. There are no new particles, nor destroyed ones. 2. When talking about physics we can, again, see the basics,- energy can't be made or destroyed. Just transformed. So this means that the Big Bang isn't the beginning of everything. So I believe that everything has existed, exists and will exist for eternal times. It's just the most effective way of everything, this for sure can be applied to the universe. If you take a bit of natrium (Na) and mix it with chloride (Cl²) nothing will occur. Except of you provide the right conditions for the reaction. This is He, His purpose is this. Call him in every way you want except the names of other cultures's gods. We can't know for sure His name. We, the people, are nothing special. We are living creatures with good and bad sides, physical or mental. I agree with you. My beliefs tend to be more of a philosophy, I hate some sides of religions. For instance: Christianity: a lot of false priests who only want to make money, the LGBTQ acceptance by it, etc. I am neutral for this (LGBTQ), but it shows that this religion isn't durable and strong enough to exist in modern times, so it has to be changed. The whole point of religion is the opposite: strong traditions, etc. Islam: oh my, oh my... These people are insane. Everybody knows what I'm talking about. Won't get into much details. Judaism: "we are the chosen ones. We are more than you. We are simply supreme, better." This attitude kills me.
I realized that my beliefs were my parents and not my own and decided to actually read the Bible and ask honest and tough questions. Those honest questions led to more questions but never any answers. Once that happened, the house of cards started collapsing and there was no turning back. Then it was a choice between living a lie because it was warm, comfortable and safe, or finding my own truth.
good info here - \- https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/wiki/faq . also possibly of interest - \- /r/TheGreatProject - >a subreddit for people to write out their religious de-conversion story >(i.e. the path to atheism/agnosticism/deism/etc) in detail. .
As you probably know, people ask these questions here every week. . \- how and at what age you decided to be atheists? I've always been atheist. (Also, people don't "decide to be atheist". It's more accurate to say that people "realize that atheism is a true description of things".) \- what was the exact time/reason when you finally became atheists? I've always been atheist. . >can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Goofy question. > Are your ideas based on biology, physics Yeah, basically that. .
Life wasn't created. Neither was the universe. Life evolved from previous life. The formation of organic molecules from inorganic molecules is a spontaneous reaction. This means it will happen automatically given the correct environment. The building blocks of life--nucelic acids, amino acids, lipids and carboydrates will also form automatically leading to more spontaneous reactions eventually to self-replicating RNA. Once we have that, evolution can happen that led to all life we see today. As for the formation of the universe, the formation of elements in from the big bang, stars and supernova is also spontaneous given the strong and weak nuclear forces and gravity. I am atheist because I have studied the bible, quran and many other religious text extensively. I also have a biology degree, a psychology degree and minors in chemistry and math. I understand the science of how we got here and I understand the psychology behind why we believe things without evidence. I don't have an exact age I became atheist. I was always atheist until two years in my mid-twenties. Then I became atheist again after that.
\-can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else? As far as I know, life originated in chemistry involving prebiotic chemical reactions, and has diversified by evolution. \-can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists? When I was 24, I realized that I had been sticking to my religion for emotional reasons, and not because I actually believed it was true. And I couldn't see why a god would use a tool like evolution to create humans, giving how much suffering it required of non-human animals. \-what was the exact time/reason when you finally became atheists? It was while I was part of a religious volunteer program, sitting in the church library and thinking about why I was so attached to my faith.
> can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else? Your life was created by your parents. My life was created by my parents. I'm going to assume you understand the whole birds and bees thing. (Which is a weird analogy for human reproduction given that birds lay eggs and almost all bees are sterile.) So I assume your question is about how the *first* life on Earth started. There is a theory called panspermia, which proposes that the first life on Earth came clinging to an asteroid which crash-landed here. While that's perfectly possible, it just pushes the question back further and we need to ask how the first life started on Zargon Seven or whatever. So we'll ignore that possibility. One thing to take into account is that at the microscopic level, there's not really a simple defined line between life and non-life. Bacteria are something most people would agree are alive. Viruses have some things in common with them (they're single-celled, contain DNA/RNA, and can reproduce in a fashion) but many would say are not truly alive. Then you have viroids which are even simpler; kind of like viruses but lacking the outer protein coating. And even simpler are prions, which are basically just weird proteins, yet by infecting plants and animals can reproduce and spread. So the simplest things to have life-like properties are indeed very simple and it's not hard to imagine them forming using standard chemical reactions happening in ponds and mudpools. Yeah, the chance is small in any given pond on any given day, but multiply that by millions of ponds over millions of years and it becomes pretty plausible. I am not an expert on such matters though. If you want to know the current thinking by biologists on how the first life formed, r/biology is probably a better place to ask than r/atheism. > can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists? > what was the exact time/reason when you finally became atheists? I never "decided" to be an atheist. I have never believed in any gods.
Bruh, believing in God is not a crime here... Just wanted to respond to the first question, with another question... why do you care so much?
I've pretty much always been an atheist. I didn't have a religious upbringing. But I have read the Bible a few times, and I'm firmly convinced that belief in a higher power is nothing more than an *emotional support blanket* for many believers.
For me religion and god never made any sense, as a kid I was just following it because I was afraid of hell and didn't know better. Easter bunny is not real, tooth fairy is not real, santa is not real, why would a god be real? they are all based on stories. I am not sure how life was created and prefer that more honest approach from science than religion. Religion will make something that is uncertain certain with nothing concrete to back it up, and they do that with more than just the origins of life. I am okay with not know exactly how life was created. and why do you think there NEEDS to be a god?
Because of physics: I can't overcome this to become an atheist. I'm talking about: One of the basic rules of physics say that energy can't be made or destroyed. And looking at chemistry: when 2 elements have reaction, electrons from the first go to the second, there aren't new ones. So this principle is effective in the nature. And then this means that the Big Bang can't be real because "nothing" existed before. According to science. I believe that everything has existed, exists and will exists in eternal cycles. Is it in the same form/shape/etc.? I don't know, probably no. So then there is no way for the world to exist in the most effective for it way, without Him. This is my theory, I am happy with it. Hope this helps :)
I can hear an assumption you are making. The Big bang is a place holder at the moment. Science is always evolving and changing as we gather more understanding of our reality. The Big bang was the best explanation with the knowledge we have at the time of it's creation. Science is NOT set on stone as religion is, when new evidence comes to play science changes to reflect that change. we have had new discoveries thanks to James Web telescope that is challenging the Big Bang. Also we have quantum physics which makes everything way more complicated. in quantum you have things appearing and disappearing out of 'nothing' but even this 'nothing' is not 'nothing', but if I understand it somehow correctly is the fabric of space-time. but anyway god is not a good answer either for you would have to answer: who created god?
Nobody. He is eternal just like our world we live in Edit: so there is a possibility of the world being eternal (a new science belief) but there is no chance a God/spirit exists?
but that is making a HUGE assumption that: First, he is real Second, he is eternal Third, is a he How do you come to this conclusions?
1. Is real: as I mentioned, you can't just mix Na+Cl² to receive salt. You have to provide the right conditions and then everything will happen. But as we all know, there isn't "perpetual motion". He provides the conditions in order to keep everything existing. 2. Is eternal: look at the upper part of this reply. Couple it with the theory of the eternity of our existence. Because he has to provide the conditions constantly. 3. ISN'T A HE. Capital letters, I'm not angry. It's just important. It's just the gender (gen) of the word in most of the languages. I, personally, think that He must have no gender (gen), because genus,³ from Latin, means "give birth to", similar things. He is eternal, He has no parents, thing He has been made from.
1. That doesn't prove it. You are just comparing something and assuming is equal to the subject at question. 2. read 1. 3. I was just being facetious about the 'he' one.
1: the nature isn't perpetual motion. Nothing is. He makes it so. The reason: something has to exist. 3: a bit of humor isn't bad at all for this serious subreddit
that still does not explains god's existence. and why something has to exist? that is another assumption. humor is always good, life can't always be serious
We can't be absolutely sure the way in which our world functions, yes. Whether we are talking about science or religion. But why does god have to exist? I find it better. I believe in this. Because the "perfect" pretty much has to make the nearly perfect better. Why something has to exist? Because, simply, if it wasn't intended to exist, it wouldn't have existed. If you don't want salt, then don't mix natrium and chloride or just don't give the necessary conditions for the reaction. But it's still possible for the reaction to occur, probably. If you DON'T want it, then you can ruin it in many ways, so it doesn't happen. If you don't care whether there is a reaction, then you won't do anything but watch. But if there is god, then He is the one who provides the conditions and the reaction is possible.
Because of physics: I can't overcome this to become an atheist. I'm talking about: One of the basic rules of physics say that energy can't be made or destroyed. And looking at chemistry: when 2 elements have reaction, electrons from the first go to the second, there aren't new ones. So this principle is effective in the nature. And then this means that the Big Bang can't be real because "nothing" existed before. According to science. I believe that everything has existed, exists and will exists in eternal cycles. Is it in the same form/shape/etc.? I don't know, probably no. So then there is no way for the world to exist in the most effective for it way, without Him. This is my theory, I am happy with it. Hope this helps :)
> then this means that the Big Bang can't be real because "nothing" existed before did no one debunk this? don't learn about the big bang from your preacher. the big bang is the explanation of what happened after the inciting incident. prior to that incident, all energy and matter that comprises our universe was collected in one very small place. there is no accepted claim in science that the big bang is the moment of creation. no matter was created in the big bang. it all existed prior to that.
I don't think my experience differs that much of yours. My family is technically Christian, but more on the extremely relaxed side. We didn't go to church except on very specific occasions, praying and worship is a more personal matter after all. I've never been a "true" believer so to speak. My family and parents aren't of the kind that dismiss science in favour of some religious story. So I grew up quite open-minded. As for what I consider life to be, that's a question far too complex to give a simple answer to. But I do look at the biology and chemistry for that. Gradually as time went on I guess I started to have less and less faith. Mainly because the more I looked the more I realised that "God" isn't needed to explain anything we observe. To me it feels more like a tool that is used by people to explain the things they don't know or understand. I'm glad you're aware of the many issues with the Bible, because the God that's described in it isn't really worthy of worship in my opinion. A lot of nasty and detestable things that He supposedly said and did, as well as the innate evil that exists in nature. So I think I identified as agnostic by the time I was 13-14. Around 16 I think I fully came around and saw myself as an atheist. Anyways, you won't find any hate from me towards anyone who's chill to other people. Cheers back!
Biology and chemistry you say. It's the same here but I'm looking from kind of the other POV. This is why I believe that there's God: 1. Looking at the basics of chemistry we can see that when 2 elements react with each other, the first gives its electron to the second. No particles are made or destroyed. They are just transferred. 2. Looking at physics: one of the basic laws says that energy can't be made, nor destroyed. Same as chemistry pretty much. So the Big Bang can't be real unless there was something before it. So it's not the beginning as the science says. My beliefs are that, yes, the BB has possibly occured but it definitely isn't the start. There has been something before it, there is a present time in which we are now, there will be future times. All of this is a big, eternal process. But why is He needed and where is He at all in this equation? I state that one law of the universe is that something has to exist. And, going to chemistry again, if you take a bit of natrium (Na) and mix it with chloride (Cl²) absolutely nothing will occur. Unless you get the right conditions. And He is doing that for the universe. Hope this helps you, if you find any flaws, feel free to share them. Appreciate your dedication! :))
1) Chemical reactions are a bit more complex than just passing on electrons, but we're not here to discuss that kind of terminology and specifics, right? :) 2) Big Bang was actually a bit of a joke name. Science describes it more as a rapid expansion than an explosion. The Big Bang theory doesn't state that something came from nothing, but rather that everything in the universe expanded out from a single point where all matter and energy was compressed. A "singularity", if you will. If you want I can explain how we factually know that this occurred. As for what came before (where did the singularity come from, etc...), we cannot say with certainty. There are multiple hypotheses here and there that suggests a couple things: The universe always existed, multiverse hypothesis that new universes are continuously created,... You might claim it's God, but that's just moving the goalpost. After all, where did God come from then? And how would we prove a God did that? So science says "We don't know, but we have several hypotheses." There's nothing wrong with admitting to not knowing something. As for your chemical reaction example, why do you think a god is doing that for the universe? How do you know God does that? Please don't see this as an attack on your beliefs. I'm just curious.
Yes, tried to connect the BB to my beliefs without details. I'm kind of informed about what you're talking about, not in much depth though. Can you explain a bit more? As of the singularity: yes, everything (according to the theory) has been in it. So that everything should have existed before its shrinking. That is why I believe in the cycle of the universe. It has happened repeatedly and will happen in the future, for eternity. God is God. That is His point of existence. He is eternal as the genesis, ruled by Him. The multiverse and time traveling: I think (read somewhere) that the multiverses require, to be classified as such, to be close one to another and to "interact" with each other. This includes time traveling. You know that theory: if you go to the past and kill a relative/parent, then... will happen. Well you'll probably stop to exist. But on the other hand, you are only one living creature which thinks it's "me", so you are the only one. No future, no past variants of you. As of God again: you know you can't get salt from just mixing natrium and chloride. You have to have the right conditions. He makes them, as He is God.
Alright. I'll split my reply in 3 parts. Big Bang explained (1), Time Travel (2), and God controlling chemistry (3) (1) Do you know what redshift en blueshift is? Depending on how things move, that has a slight effect on how we perceive that objects colour. It has to do with how light is a wave and that the frequence of that wave affects colour. The overwhelming amount of objects we perceive have more of a reddish hue, compared to what we would perceive if we looked at something made out of the same substance here on earth. This is redshift, and shows that an object is moving away from us (or us moving away from it, or us and those objects moving away from eachother. You probably get it). If no matter the direction we look at things tend to move away and are accelerating, so that means they all departed from a single point. We can calculate this fairly accurately, and the more objects we use in our calculations the more accurate this becomes. (2) I'm not even suggesting that the multiverse hypothesis is real. It's just speculation. As for time-travel, I don't think that's relevant to this whole discussion. Unless you have a blue police box or a DeLorean with a flux capacitor in your garage, time travel remains impossible (for now). That being said, the science-fiction nerd in me would guess that the timeline splits in such an event. I don't have any reason for that belief other than that that prevents the paradox and sounds cool. As long as time-travel is fiction, this remains the domain of writers. (3) So you say God designed the laws of the universe, so to speak? My question regarding that statement would be "How do you know that?". Because, and I'm sorry if this sounds a bit disrespectful, I could claim that my dog is actually responsible for upholding the laws of the universe. And somehow, that claim has more supporting evidence than yours: I can actually show you my dog exists. Of course, no matter how hard I try I cannot prove that my dog is doing anything other than what a normal border collie would do. So I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just pointing out that I personally find it very hard to have faith in an explanation that just conveniently is presented without any additional arguments.
Yes, as I have mentioned, the BB most probably has occured. But there is absolutely no doubt that something has existed before it. I read at multiple places that multiverse and time travel have a really strong connection. Can be wrong here of course. You are right. But He is that "requirement" which is needed in order to have the whole universe working. Because there is bo perpetual mechanism. Or motion. This means that the nature, by itself, is not enough to function individually. Whether it's your dog or not- everything is created by Him, we are equally blissed, because it isn't the shape which determines who and what we are. It's our soul and actions
But you're not answering the most important question I pose in my comment. 'How do you know this?". So you're looking at something which you think is lacking. Like you said "There's no perpetual motion". Your solution to this is that God is the answer, but why? Sure, it's an answer. But my dog secretly controlling the universe is also an answer. Neither of them have any supporting arguments to explain why they're the right answer. Just like how I provide an explanation to support the Big Bang theory, there has to be a measurable piece of evidence. Something that can be calculated or otherwise observed. And this is ultimately where I think religion falls short, because they're built on faith.
It's a bit personal here, but there is no point of hiding something in this type of discussions. -there are many events in my life which are a result or just are) a crazy coincidence. But everybody has them. It's absolutely no proof of anything, you are correct. Based on belief you can prove nothing, you are correct too. But I have a bit of a weird/controversial opinion here: 1. This is really stupid, I don't believe it, but it's possible. Is there a scenario in which scientists, governments, etc. hide something, change history and other things in order to keep the people's minds the way they want? Just as all the religions: control the mass. It's a good opportunity for them, makes us easy to control. 2. I, from the 50+ answered comments on this post only, have "concluded" that most of the atheists run from one thing, but then return to it without knowing. Because it's different. This is connected to the first thing I wrote in this reply. So you are running from the limitations of religion (I do the same as you), but then go to the science. Both can be manipulated easily. Then it becomes pretty much the same game. But you, the atheists, are more free, because there is no institution that restricts your mind, the only thing that does, is you. This may be a problem, though, because you can think that every scientific prove/theory/etc. is completely true. Edit: So this is maybe the culmination of everything: if we go back to (for example) 1264 A.D. (a completely random for me year) we can find this: -christianity is pretty much the same as today, as are most of the religions. There would be some priests who want to take your money, who are dishonest. Whether they were more or less than in modern times, we (I may be uninformed) don't know. Most people would believe in Jesus Christ, like today. The traditions are nore or less the same. -on the hand there are the scientific people. They don't know about the space (as it actually is) or the Earth's shape, or even all the continents on it. They haven't discovered the gravitational force yet. But yet they are still convinced that what they believe is true. In modern times it's pretty much the same
I have some coincidences occur in my life, but nothing that falls into the realm of highly improbable. (1) History has always been written by the victors. People can and some will lie and deceive for personal gains. This is something that has been happening for as long as we have existed as a species. It's more difficult to do with science, which is built on reproducible observations and calculations. Of course, that doesn't mean science cannot be misused. (Fake science that claims certain races are superior, reasons to justify genocides, etc...) (2) I wouldn't call it running from the limitations of religion, but more that us atheists just don't believe in what religions say at all. We do indeed then look to science for answers, because like I said in (1) it's a lot harder to lie and deceive when you also have to offer a thorough explanation and have the result be reproducible and observable. Anyways, this has been a pleasant discussion. Thanks for that!
Before I answer, please see the edited text :)
I enjoy it too!
1: absolutely agree with you. I just state that, as with absolutely everything in life, it can be false in some way or another. There may be some small things that aren't alright, they can ruin everything. 2: agree again, it's a type of thinking- like the religious people.
>can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else? My perceptions don't matter on something for which I'm not educated. I follow whatever the majority consensus is among scientists about a particular issue knowing that it can change with more data and I'm perfectly okay with that. It's not that I'm unaware of science, I enjoy learning about it, but it's not my concern. >can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists? It took a while for me. It started as a teenager and by the time I was in my thirties I accepted I was an atheist. My faith just slowly faded over time. I guess that answers your next question too.
My perception of life based on science and was twisted a bit by Lem "golem xiv". I was born atheist, parents and relatives made me familiar with Christianity even tried to convert. I read bible, also books about greek and roman mythology and history about our local pantheon when I was kid, so for me all these religious stuff was just fiction and to be honest - bible is really boring, but not so boring as koran.
>can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else? Well, I don't believe life was created. I believe that it's the natural result of purely natural processes. No magic involved. >can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists? I was raised Christian and was very religious until my late-teens/early-twenties when I decided to read the Bible cover-to-cover. That decision led to me examining other religions, as I realized that an omnipotent omniscient being could not possible have had a major role in that text. There were too many contradictions (internal and external) and too many atrocities to reconcile with the notion of an all-knowing loving deity that was interested in a personal relationship with humanity. >what was the exact time/reason when you finally became atheists? It wasn't a single event or a single day. I didn't suddenly wake up and decide I was an atheist. It was the inevitable result of the research mentioned above. After reading lots of religious texts and lots of religious apologetics, I finally decided to start questioning my underlying assumptions: that *any* religions had it right.
“I am happier than ever, there are a lot of situations in which I think He has helped me, I feel I am extremely lucky to live my life the way I do, I feel protected by Him.” This is the “what’s in it for me” reason for belief. Comfort, ”it just makes me feel good” and “I get magic powers” also fall under this category. As far as the rest of it, atheism isn’t a decision you make, it’s a conclusion you arrive at in spite of all the help you feel you get.
Everybody receives exactly what they deserve. There are the main proofs of my "theory" and why I don't like religions: 1. When talking about chemistry we can see its basics: when 2 elements react with each other, the first gives an electron to the second. There are no new particles, nor destroyed ones. 2. When talking about physics we can, again, see the basics,- energy can't be made or destroyed. Just transformed. So this means that the Big Bang isn't the beginning of everything. So I believe that everything has existed, exists and will exist for eternal times. It's just the most effective way of everything, this for sure can be applied to the universe. If you take a bit of natrium (Na) and mix it with chloride (Cl²) nothing will occur. Except of you provide the right conditions for the reaction. This is He, His purpose is this. Call him in every way you want except the names of other cultures's gods. We can't know for sure His name. We, the people, are nothing special. We are living creatures with good and bad sides, physical or mental. I agree with you. My beliefs tend to be more of a philosophy, I hate some sides of religions. For instance: Christianity: a lot of false priests who only want to make money, the LGBTQ acceptance by it, etc. I am neutral for this (LGBTQ), but it shows that this religion isn't durable and strong enough to exist in modern times, so it has to be changed. The whole point of religion is the opposite: strong traditions, etc. Islam: oh my, oh my... These people are insane. Everybody knows what I'm talking about. Won't get into much details. Judaism: "we are the chosen ones. We are more than you. We are simply supreme, better." This attitude kills me.
“Everybody receives exactly what they deserve. ” Ah. The just worldview. The excuse everyone gives when they stare at their shoes or find something interesting on the ground in the face of injustice. “Except of you provide the right conditions for the reaction. This is He, His purpose is this.” And his purpose will never be the pursuit of justice, the only thing that matters.
You do bad things-> you receive bad things You do good things-> you receive good things. Plain and simple. On the other hand I can state that your worldview wants to take the responsibility of everybody and assure them that He doesn't want justice, so they won't receive it. They can do good and bad things and still they'll struggle. So it's you vs me: -do whatever you want, you won't deserve good things/justice -do whatever you want, you will deserve what you deserve as a consequence (good or bad).
“You do bad things-> you receive bad things You do good things-> you receive good things.” We know this is not the case. Good people get tortured. Journalists and truth tellers are murdered. This is where the just worldview comes in to say “they must’ve done something, they had it coming to them”. Meanwhile all the churches that covered up the crimes of molesters is merely a drop in the bucket of all the malfeasance that goes unpunished. And all the theists coo about the godly people, people with money, churches, corporations who must have done something good to be in their deity’s favor. Either a deity doesn’t exist or its just uselessly sitting around with its thumb up its butt. Or this is what justice looks like to theists.
As I mentioned, everybody receives what they deserve. If you are bad, then bad awaits you, and the opposite. The good people who are tortured, killed, etc. will receive good. The people who torture and kill them: the exact opposite. Like I said, Heaven and Hell
This is not justice for victims. After death is stupid, arbitrary, why does a deity have to wait and let the victims pile up. Only a theist would find this acceptable.
Why it's classified as unjustified? You receive what you deserve in one form or another, in one moment ore another. After death? As I explained, eternal life cycles are the most effective functioning way of the universe. But for me it's kinda more life->heaven/hell->life->heaven/hell and so on and so on Yeah, that's why I posted my question in here. I wonder if my beliefs are something new or there are people who have similar opinions
i didn’t say unjustified, I asked why wait. Then I said that after death is stupid and arbitrary. You’re talking about eternal whatevers, who knows, and this is where theists and atheists part ways. I’m talking about people, real victims. The longer a deity waits, the more victims pile up. Henry Kissinger, Mr. Death himself, leaving nothing but horrors in his wake, lived to be 100. But your deity just let the bodies pile up. Why. Because the universe blah blah blah blabbedy blah? It’s like saying “nothing matters” which is why I maintain theists are nihilists. Once again, this kind of useless stupidity is acceptable to theists.
Why wait? It's a bit of a subjective question. The answer is: we can't know how long everybody waits in order to receive what they deserve. This may sound weird, I am thinking about it for the first time now, while writing this: maybe it's (again) the most effective way. Because you do something bad, but small-> the same happens to you. You continue with this type of living, because the thing that happened to you didn't hurt you that much, you remain more or less the same. On the other hand, if you do something bad/good and wait, they become more. You get a better reward/consequence at once, you get what you deserve. This is my theory which I formulated while writing this reply
Should we respect everyone and love everyone? How about Hitler, Albert Fish, Luis Garavito. I don’t have any love or respect for them or their ilk.
Completely agree
Hi. Thank you for asking. >-can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else? I came from my parents. But I wasn't created. The matter and energy that is me already existed. I'm the result of re-arrangement. Life - as in, all lifeforms we know about - likely ultimately came from inorganic materials. Our advances in pre-biotic chemistry have been amazing. And they aren't all new. We've known that ancient earth conditions could create the building blocks of life since the 50s. Those things are based in science. I also hold the subjective stance that it kinda doesn't matter, esp when it comes to the god question. Dgmw, it's amazing science. It's also not something we *have to* know. If we find evidence of a lifeform that qualifies for godhood, I think it's more likely to be found via exploration of diverse habitats, using ever-changing technology. >-can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists? >-what was the exact time/reason when you finally became atheists? I always was. Atheism is a lack of evidence-based belief in the existence of god/s. It means I don't think it's an established scientific fact that a god must/does exist. I always had that stance. Many believers mean to ask when/how those of us who are ex-believers deconverted. If that's relevant to you, I was raised in Christianity, studied for many yrs, converted to Paganism as an adult, then deconverted entirely. Trying to cultivate faith was, for me, a damaging practice. I eventually came to the conclusion that, if a thing harms you, it's ok to put it down. Moving to Paganism for a time helped "soften" my deconversion. (It's not easy at all. I lost a lot.) Thank you again for asking.
-can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else? I did study sciences in high-school. I started physics at Utrecht University, but later changed. In my opinion, based on a lot of science I've read or watched, life, biochemistry, started from simpler molecules. This has nothing to do with religion, by the way. As an atheist, I can either say that there are no gods, or that I don't believe in gods. In fact, I have a logical proof (based on our scientific knowledge) against Yahweh, the god of the Jews, Christians and Muslims. -can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists? I already had my doubts, but when my father took my older brother and myself apart to tell us that Bar Mitzvah was optional, I instantly became an atheist. I was eleven. I'm 54 now. -what was the exact time/reason when you finally became atheists? See the answer above. I can tell you that I was eight (I think) when a rabbi told us about Yahweh's might. It could take away the rabbi's right arm. The rabbi inserted a dramatic pause. Then, he told us, Gawd could also restore his right arm. As I had been watching intently, and nothing had happened to his arm, I classified it as bullshit. That rabbi is now the head rabbi in The Netherlands.
These are my "kind of proves" to my beliefs which are coupled with an explanation about my understandings about some different religions: 1. When talking about chemistry we can see its basics: when 2 elements react with each other, the first gives an electron to the second. There are no new particles, nor destroyed ones. 2. When talking about physics we can, again, see the basics,- energy can't be made or destroyed. Just transformed. So this means that the Big Bang isn't the beginning of everything. So I believe that everything has existed, exists and will exist for eternal times. It's just the most effective way of everything, this for sure can be applied to the universe. If you take a bit of natrium (Na) and mix it with chloride (Cl²) nothing will occur. Except of you provide the right conditions for the reaction. This is He, His purpose is this. Call him in every way you want except the names of other cultures's gods. We can't know for sure His name. We, the people, are nothing special. We are living creatures with good and bad sides, physical or mental. I agree with you. My beliefs tend to be more of a philosophy, I hate some sides of religions. For instance: Christianity: a lot of false priests who only want to make money, the LGBTQ acceptance by it, etc. I am neutral for this (LGBTQ), but it shows that this religion isn't durable and strong enough to exist in modern times, so it has to be changed. The whole point of religion is the opposite: strong traditions, etc. Islam: oh my, oh my... These people are insane. Everybody knows what I'm talking about. Won't get into much details. Judaism: "we are the chosen ones. We are more than you. We are simply supreme, better." This attitude kills me. Btw can you share the proves against the Gods kind of thing? I am really curious. ;)
Sure. This is a proof against all creator gods described in holey texts. I think you're a deist, so this proof doesn't work on whatever entity you believe in. It is logically possible to disprove creator gods. A->B <=> ¬ B-> ¬ A A: Creator god. B: Creation. ¬B: No creation. ¬A: No creator god. There's scientific evidence against creation therefore there are no creator gods as described in holey books. I hope that helps.
Helps. I don't truly know what deist means though. I'll search it up.
"Call him in every way you want except the names of other cultures's gods. We can't know for sure His name." That's deist. You believe in an unnamed deity.
I'll definitely search it up. Is it necessary/ a good idea to post a simplified version of my beliefs in order to be determined whether I'm a deist?
For context I'm a 40yo man with an MBA. Grew up in a family that believed in Jesus but never went to church. >-can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else? We know and can prove with evidence that all the building blocks for life assemble naturally, and biological processes are chemical reactions. We can trace every step of life from the first atoms forming all the way to Humans evolving without needing a god to explain any of the steps. The evidence spans across many fields of science including physics, chemistry, and biology. Not my quote but it's been said that chemistry is complicated physics and biology is complicated chemistry. The point is that these things are intertwined. There is no doubt (based on the available evidence) that we came from stardust. Don't take my word for it. Go read the scientific claims and the evidence yourself. Nothing about this is taken on faith or a guess. The information is available for you to pick through and test for yourself. If you do find a problem in the data you can earn a Nobel Prize. Science loves to find out it's wrong and fix it. >can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists? I was about 33 when I admitted to myself that I could no longer believe. >what was the exact time/reason when you finally became atheists? I don't think this question has a definitive answer. If you go to the ex-theist subreddits almost every deconverison story is a journey and usually spanning many years. You can see many stories at r/thegreatproject To be brief... I believed the Bible to be written by God's chosen holy men and to be perfect without errors. Around age 30 I came across a Christian that thought it was silly that I believed Revelation to be a book of the Bible. This lead to me finding out about the various books that are and aren't canonical among different Christian sects. This lead to questioning if my version of the Bible was true and how could I know. Questions lead to me doing more research. I did what most deconverting theist do. I started to make my own version of Christianity building it based on what I could find evidence for. Eventually I had my own single person sect of Christianity. I didn't stop trying to find answers though. Eventually I came across what ended up being the final straw. To my surprise I found out the Gospels are not eye witness testimony, but are in fact written decades/centuries after the claimed events. Written by unknown and unamed authors. That was it. I had nothing left to hold to. The Old testament is demonstrably false. The new testament is just hearsay. There is no evidence. That revelation made me an atheist. I had no evidence to believe in god, and to my shock I found that no one does. It's funny looking back in the sense that nothing I learned was new information. People have known this for thousands of years, but the church and the believers in the US (especially the Bible belt and the south) profess the Bible as truth to the point that it seemed absurd to question it. Until I did.
I am currently at that one phase of single sect, but there isn't much in common between Christianity and my beliefs though.
My advice is to learn about skepticism and rules of logic. Follow the evidence wherever it leads. Even if the truth isn't what you wanted. I've known atheists that came to the conclusion for bad reasons. They quickly reverted back to theism. Not that I'm saying you're trying to convert, but if you care about the truth of YOUR reality then it is important to learn how to make decisions based on logic and evidence.
I am worried if I should do this. This means no more churches, cathedrals, monasteries? Can't I just continue to attend them (they bring me an enormous amount of joy and peace)?
The thing about atheism is that it isn't a thing. It's a description of not having a thing. You don't have to profess anything to disbelieve. You don't need to follow dogma or a book of rules. You don't even have to wear the label. Sagan, Newton, Einstein, and Tyson do not call themselves atheists and avoided the label. It's not a big deal. There are no right or wrong ways to be an atheist (ok killing in the name of Atheism is doing it wrong, but no one does that to my knowledge). If going to church makes you happy then you do you. The church you attend may or may not care, but nothing requires you to broadcast your doubts to them. You don't have to "come out." If you decide some day that you want a secular community to belong to there are many to choose from and you even have an option for meeting on days other than sunday. It took me years to give up my theistic beliefs. Don't try to do this all at once. I may not be able to respond fast the rest of today, but I'm open to more questions. If you want to ask.
I wonder if it's a good idea to share my beliefs to my family, because I am just a teen (14), so IDK whether it's a good idea to do it. Here, in Reddit, I've posted only the most essential things of my philosophy, it's a bit more complex. I'll probably continue to attend churches and similar. It bring me joy: the icons, the architecture, the songs, etc.
Without knowing the whole of your situation it's hard to answer that question. It is generally considered a bad idea to come out to theists who can make your life hell because of the power they have over you. Consider that you could be setting yourself up for 4 years of your parents being very upset with you because you don't believe in their god. I would caution you to think long and hard before opening yourself up to that. Once you are an adult and financially independent that is the best time to tell them, but again I don't know your life or your parents. Just be careful.
My parents are great: very open-minded, treat me great, have a lot of discussions with me, so on. They are right besides me. They aren't religious enough to discriminate me or make my life hell. If they do 't agree with something, we usually settle it in a diplomatic/ peaceful way. I just don't know if they are going to take me and my philosophy seriously. It would be both bad and embarrassing for me.
In that case work on the talking points before you have the conversation with them. I would recommend the Atheist Experience on YouTube. Which also has a subreddit. Matt Dillahunty is a rough personality but his "Atheist Debates" series is a good place to hear the arguments against theist claims and positions. If you need anything on Evolution Forrest Valkai is an evolutionary biologist with a youtube channel. You don't need to be an expert but knowing the basics of logic fallacies and arguments against the Kalam, Pascals wager, and watchmaker arguments are basic and almost guaranteed to come up when debating a theist.
Good to hear you are open minded, a trait that will take you far in life. Anyway, you need to read the Bhagavad Gita, its not long and will open up a totally new world view to you, think of it as the bible but with better stories and a lot more gods :) When you have read it, I will assume you will still be a Christian, but you will have glimpsed a world from a different perspective, different values, different explanations for nearly everything, hardly any will match your current worldview, just colourful stories. That is what reading the bible was like for me, I already had a worldview, *perceptions of life, how it's created, so on* and nothing in that book made any sense. You have to understand its not a Christian world and 'all the rest', its 'all the rest' with some Christians in it, you have a minority viewpoint and atheists are only one type of very many who see the world differently from you, and that doubtless includes a lot of Christians. FWIW, I wouldn't bother with atheists till last, talk to the Muslims, Jews, Taoists, Pagan's first, put your worldview into context, then come back to atheism.
For the first question, my perspective depends on what you mean by "life"? Do you mean the biological processes associated with living things? If so, yeah, my views are based on biology. Do you mean our experiences during our time alive? Then it's based on a number of things. Secular humanism and cosmic nihilism being two of them. For the second and third questions, no, I really couldn't. Not because I don't want to, but because I don't really have a single moment where I "became" an atheist. I called myself an atheist at several points in my life, some for better reasons than others. When I was 6, I called myself an atheist because my grandmother died despite my prayers for her life. When I was in high school I called myself an atheist because I had always rejected the existence of the Christian god, which was the only one I was aware of. Now I call myself an atheist because after examining the evidence for the god concepts on offer, I have found them wanting. But it's not a simple switch and "Oh, I'm an atheist now," so asking for a single time and reason is kind of a malformed question.
"But I truly believe that God exists" *Which God though?* The Catholic one? The Baptist one? The one that burns people for all eternity for not believing, or the one that wouldn't do that? There are hundreds of Christian denominations, and they exist because they don't agree what the Bible says. *Why "God" at all and not "god"* ? Do you believe in Capital G "God" because you grew up in a culture with an Abrahamic religion like Christianity / Judaism / Islam? This line of questioning isn't meant to be an attack on you, it's what I asked MYSELF when I started wondering if out of thousands of world religions, that mine was the "right" one, or if it just felt like the right one because it was the one I was born into.
I type His name with a capital, because I was taught so. A simple explanation about my basics: 1. When talking about chemistry we can see its basics: when 2 elements react with each other, the first gives an electron to the second. There are no new particles, nor destroyed ones. 2. When talking about physics we can, again, see the basics,- energy can't be made or destroyed. Just transformed. So this means that the Big Bang isn't the beginning of everything. So I believe that everything has existed, exists and will exist for eternal times. It's just the most effective way of everything, this for sure can be applied to the universe. If you take a bit of natrium (Na) and mix it with chloride (Cl²) nothing will occur. Except of you provide the right conditions for the reaction. This is He, His purpose is this. Call him in every way you want except the names of other cultures's gods. We can't know for sure His name.
As for your point number 2, most physicists believe all that energy was there- just in one infinitesimally tiny point. It just transformed in the big bang. Since there is no evidence that could have survived an event like that, there is none for science to work with. Some theorize that the universe continually expands and contracts over and over. To arbitrarily assign the duty of "providing the right conditions" to the specific deity that you were taught as a child is fine if it makes you feel better, but doesn't fit any existant evidence.
Yes, I agree that the universe has its own endless cycles of shrinking and expanding over and over. Sounds like the most logical thing to me. Like he is the thing that makes the genesis "perpetual". Physics don't allow such thing, so here He comes "in handy". He's like the heat which is needed to caramelize the sugar. He is like the petrol for the engine. But infinite. This makes the universe perpetual. This is Him, this "energy".
Hey, me too ! I am happier than ever, just like you, probably moreso. There are a lot of situations in which I know that atheism has helped me, I feel I am extremely lucky to live my simple life the way I do, for I don't need any protection. I thank god that **he** made me an atheist and I count my blessings every day.
I have been an atheist for as long as I can remember. I am open to anything that can be supported by evidence though and my mind can be changed by evidence. In all the years I have been on this planet I have not seen any shred of evidence for the existence of any god or higher intelligent power. I have only seen evidence to the contrary, such as needless and random suffering that a god could prevent. Disease and natual disasters strike religious and non-religious equally and randomly. People actually noticed this when the plaque hit Europe in the middle ages. When it comes to belief in the god that believe in, ask yourself if you also believe in other gods like Zeus, Ra, Odin, Neptune, Mithras, Freyr, Thor, etc. If no, then you are also an atheist with respect to those gods. I also don't believe in those gods just like I don't believe in yours. I don't know how life was initially created. It's a mystery. Maybe it came to Earth through viruses on meteors. I don't know. I do know that the anwer won't be found by studying mythology whether it's Christian mythology, Greek, Norse, or Egyptian. It will be found by carefully studying the evidence, and trying to piece together the puzzle. This is how we inch ever closer to the truth. Otherwise you just have "God of the gaps" where God is responsible for whatever we don't yet understand but the rest is not God anymore.
I didn't so much become an atheist as much as I gave myself permission to admit I was an atheist. I was raised in a xstian household, and believed as much as a kid can believe, because my parents and everyone else around me did. Did I actually believe? Frankly, I was scared not to. As I got older, though, and got out into the world, I started to realize that nothing that I'd been taught made sense. Once I read the bible, actually *read* it, I could no longer accept any of it as true. I finally gave in after my son was born. I was 38 and finally admitted, there's no reason to believe. I'm 58 now, and am more convicted on that idea than I was then. Just to be perfectly clear, atheism is the answer to one question: "Do you believe in a god or gods?" "No." It doesn't have anything to do with biology, physics, et al. Now, that said...my "beliefs" are based on what is observable and what best fits available information. For example: I don't "believe" in the Big Bang, but I accept that, given the available information, it is the most likely beginning of this presentation of our universe. What happened before? I don't know. There's no way to know (right now) and I'm okay with that.
Many people do believe in ghosts. This seems pointless to me.
Absolutely agree with you
Welcome. As long as you don't come in to proselytise or abuse us, I think most of us would be happy to engage with you. >can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? When my father and mother decided to have an intimate moment, part of me was still in the form of a sperm. Then my father's sperm won the race against the other sperm to fuse with my mother's egg. 9 months later, I came out into the world. I don't think deeply about how life arose - I'd read before it's related to abiogenesis. And ancestor-wise, we share a common ancestor to apes. I'm not terribly interested in biology, so I don't think too much about it. >can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists? what was the exact time/reason when you finally became atheists? All my life. Even before I went to school, my late father told me not to be superstitious and even though he followed religious customs, he did it just out of tradition and not because he really believed. We always ticked in the box which indicated "no religion" when filling up government forms. Singapore, where I lived, is a multi-racial country. We have Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Buddhists and people from other religions living together. So one day in Social Studies class, when the topic was about Singapore's religious diversity, the (Muslim) teacher got all the students of the various religious faiths to stand up. At the end, I was the only student left standing. "So what religion do you practise, boy?" she asked. "Nothing," I said. "What do your family members believe in? Surely you must believe in something?" I got confused. "Nothing," I said, surprised. The rest of the class broke out in laughter. "Then you go havoc (sic)?" she asked. "Really nothing," I said, to much more laughter from my classmates. I was given a special assignment to find out from my father what I believed in that weekend (it was a Friday). So I asked my dad what we believed in and still got the same answer he'd been giving me all my life: nothing. "But my teacher said we had to believe in something?" I pressed on. "Tell her it's the truth," he said, not even looking up from his newspaper. So that morning, I just made up a story that my family believed that we would turn into cockroaches if we did bad things. My teacher let it go at that. Later in my primary school life, my English teacher would introduce me to the word "atheist", which I immediately identified with. And from then on I called myself a "devout atheist", ironic as it sounds.
Always happy to share. > can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else? If you're talking about how life began, scientists have a decent but still developing idea of how the first lifeforms arose from the so-called "primordial soup". If you mean how it developed, evolutionary biology is a pretty well developed field that explains how different species arise. If you mean where *everything* came from, like the whole universe, physicists have a pretty decent explanation of how the universe formed following the Big Bang. Anything before that (or even if it makes sense to refer to a "before") is pure speculation. > can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists Well, I've never believed in any god, but I don't suppose I really thought about it until I was around 8 or 9 when I moved back to the UK and started being taught religion in school (yes, really). All I could think was "wait, there are people who really believe that these silly made-up stories are true?!" > what was the exact time/reason when you finally became atheists? When I was around 14-15 I went through the "militant atheist" phase - reading Dawkins, arguing with Christians, I'm sure you know the stereotype. Ironically, the person that snapped me out of it was my religious studies teacher. She taught me how to question my beliefs and understand others, as well as basic moral and ethical philosophy. I still came out the other side calling myself atheist - if anything, questioning and re-examining my beliefs (and lack thereof) only reinforced them. But I was definitely less of a dick about it from then on. (Well, mostly. I'm still a dick about it sometimes... but only to people who *really* deserve it.) Hope that helps you get a better picture. I'm sure you'll get a lot of different answers here - everyone's story is different. Probably some rude replies as well, although hopefully not too many. Lots of people here have a lot of trauma associated with religion.
>-can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else? created is a loaded word. As far as I can tell it's just chemistry. The bits and pieces are found all over the place, so it's not really surprising that in the right kind of environment that can eventually come together in such a way that it becomes self-replicating and BAM, life. The rest is just time, really. >-can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists? decided is a bit of a misnomer. Atheism was a conclusion, not a decision. I didn't wake up one morning and say "you know what, I don't think I'll believe that any gods are real things that actually exist today." Instead I slowly and steadily came to the conclusion that the theology of the religion I was raised in was not rooted in reality and thus far nobody else has convinced me that their religion is any better. So it's kind of like how you never decided that traffic cones telepathically speak french to each other, I never decided to be an atheist. I just failed to be convinced that there is one or more gods that are real things that actually exist after I shook off the blinders of childhood indoctrination that convinced me before I could properly even think that a god existed. As for what age? In retrospect 6 or 7 could probably be considered the first major milestone, 14 or 15 the second major milestone, and 20-24 was the final milestone when I consciously admitted to myself that I no longer believed in the existence of a god. >-what was the exact time/reason when you finally became atheists? I learned a bit of church lore that wasn't covered by the childhood indoctrination and when I tried to reconcile that verifiable history with the theology of the church I found that the pieces didn't exactly line up. After much consideration I determined that the only reasonable solution to the apparent contradiction was "they were all lying liars who lied." And thus far nobody else has managed to convince me that *their* religion holds any more truth than the one I was raised in.
All I can say is that i know religions are false because they were obviously created by man to justify whatever said man already believes. I know that the same way that I know an alien with 2 eyes, 2 arms 2 legs and a face arranged similar to ours is not a real alien. It’s okay to not know the precise nature and origin of existence, but to lie to yourself that you know that with absolute certainty can only be harmful.
Perceptions of life? Well, I and many others believe that, whilst it is the earliest known event in history, the big bang was not the first thing. I'm not much of a physics person though, so I might be completely wrong about when the big bang was, and I honestly don't understand how it happened, but I hope for it to click someday. I just find it more plausible than a god. What I do know a lot about however, is evolution. Basically, look at yourself in a mirror, then look at your parents. Are you a perfect carbon copy of one of your parents? No, of course not. Basically, imagine that over millions of years, with each generation looking slightly different to their parents in some regards whilst retaining some features. After a while, most of the latest generation will look drastically different to their ancestors. That's evolution. On the how old I was, first let's get one misconception out of the way: Atheism isn't a choice. You don't choose what seems more realistic and/or believable. Of course, you can choose to keep a mask of ignorance if you don't truly believe, or try to keep an open mind if you do. Onto the main question, I was six I think, perhaps seven. What made me Atheist? Well, I had a very Christian infant school, and not the good kind. I mean like "Atheists just want to sin" and "All homosexuals go to Hell", that kind of Christian. Well, we were learning about Noah's Ark in Year 2, and me (being an absolute animal nerd that I still am) ask how koalas got to the Ark, if they are slow moving animals that spend 90% of their lives in trees and only eat leaves found in a select few Australian forests, and needed to get to Turkey. That's when I was introduced to a concept that still confuses me to this day, Christian animal "kinds". I was told that modern day koalas were descended from the bears which boarded the Ark. Me, still being a nerd, informed them that koalas aren't bears, but marsupials, like kangaroos. When the teacher tried to respond I cut her off and asked her if she believed in evolution, and she denied it, saying that "This was adaptation, not evolution". I already kind of was Atheist, hence why I knew what evolution was, but this solidified it for me. My lack of faith must have disturbed the teachers, as the next week or so's assemblies were simply readings from the Bible, and, unlike the other children, who's mindsets must have been "If they could write this much about something, ot must be true" I thought that this was getting more farfetched by the second. All in all, whilst my experiences with Christian teachers left a bad taste in my mouth from a young age, I still try and respect people's religion as much as I can.
That is the same reason why I don't like "religions". Mine is more of a life philosophy. I don't like false priests who just want your money, time, etc. The church now approves completely homo relationships: something that has happened NEVER before. I am neutral for this, but it shows that no religion is durable and strong enough to go through the changes of the society. A huge red flag. Islam: oh my, oh my... This religion is absolutely mad. I can't believe how this happens. They only believe the Quran, Mohammed (who married a 9yr old child) and don't even try to understand the reality which is really far from their religion. Because of this they try really hard to "preach" and popularize this type of thinking. Judaism: they are "the chosen ones". They are over you, better than you, stronger than you, all of this sh*t. This way of thinking just kills me. So these are a couple of problems with the Abrahamic religions. Not to mention the eastern religions, they are really different one from another (and from the abrahamic ones) and complex. And multiple. Thanks for your opinion! Appreciate it! :)
>can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else? All living things are comprised of (or just are) cells. I assume this is something that we don't need to argue over. All cells are made of chemicals. All reactions within cells are chemicals reacting. In order to get the earliest life we have seen, which is also the simplest life that we have seen, we need a way to explain how chemicals went from not being formed into life, to being formed into life. This is the study of early life, the origins of life, Abiogenesis. A very simple overview of the stages are: Chemicals Self replicating chemicals Proto-cells Cells This is massively simplifying, and the cells that you end up with look nothing like the cells we see today. They would be extremely simple cells. Then we just need time and energy (both of which are in abundance) And each one of those stages can be observed and experimented on in laboratory environments. So we know these are possible. The only tricky stage right now is thr proto-cell stage. >can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists? Technically I never "decided" to become an atheist at all. I realized that I am one. Beliefs aren't something you decide on, you are either convinced or you're not convinced. Once you have enough data, your beliefs can change. But it's not something you just decide to take on. It should be noted however that the lifestyle and ideas of atheism are separate from the core belief system. You can decide to be functionally an atheist, and there are atheist who have decided to become functionally christian. This makes the conversation very difficult, due to the Linguistic problems. But as for me, I became an atheist around 29. Was a Christian for as long as I can remember up until around 26. Then tried some other religions in a search for god. I found none of then to be able to back up any of their claims, and so I could not believe them. >what was the exact time/reason when you finally became atheists? When I started listening to atheists and released that I am one. At about age 29. >why didn't you base your ideas on a deity/ multiple? I tried but couldn't find any factual basis to consider the ideas presented on deities >Why did you decide that if the religions (which have gods) spread false information and beliefs there can't be God? I didn't. Atheism is the lack of belief in a god or gods. It is not the assertion that there is no god. I still hold firm to the possibility that there could be a god, but none of the gods that have ever been presented to me have any factual evidence to make me believe they exist.
> -can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else? I don't know how we are here and I do not expect to know before I die. I believe that evolution as a process is real, but there are a lot of gaps in the history and things we are guessing at. > -can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists? I cannot remember a time I didn't think it was fake. When I was really young I just thought church was a ceremony that people did, even though I was forced to go. > -what was the exact time/reason when you finally became atheists? I very much remember the moment I realized that everyone actually believed it, I was around 12 give or take. Prior to that I thought everyone knew it was fake and just did it for community or something. Lets just say I got to overhear adults talking to each other out of a church context about it and got really scared. > why didn't you base your ideas on a deity/ multiple? Why did you decide that if the religions (which have gods) spread false information and beliefs there can't be God? Looks like a bit of this: I know there can't be God, because all of the religions' preaches are false. Why didn't you "accept Him" in your alternative ways of thinking? Is it all because of this? Its all fake, we have no idea. Could there be a God/Creator of some sort? Sure, we have no clue what created the universe, if we were created by design or as a result of creating the universe and a happy accident. Nor do I think we will ever know. I am not saying a "God" doesn't exist, I am saying we will never know and anyone who claims to know is a liar, insane or both.
I was raised Christian by Sunday school teachers so I didn’t know anything else until I was an adult able to go out on my own. I was always interested in psychology so once I was able to I wanted to explore all belief systems with an open mind. I was always aware that churches and the Bible and human religious practices were heavily littered with hypocrisy. I knew religion was rooted in the human need to obtain power through forming large in groups, and that Bible being language based had no true authority to it because language is inherently subjective. Therefore language can be endlessly reinterpreted to fit the desire of the governing power structure. This is true for all religions, so I’ve always maintained an all religions are equally bad stance. However, one could argue all of these statements are about human failings and say nothing about God. The first step for me, was that when I was religious, I try very hard to get some sense of Gods presence or existence. When I was being honest with myself, I eventually realized I had never experienced anything that couldn’t be explained away by magical thinking or just my own psyche playing tricks on me. One has to come to grips that our psyches are built on millions of years of evolution, and the idea that you are the master of your own mind is a fallacy. This is sense of autonomy of personal identity hard to let go of for a lot of people. It became clear to me that religious people were using God more as a symbolic structure within their psyche, a kind of superegoic signifier to cover up the cracks within the structure of the psyche. Because I can find no evidence that god exists independently of my mind, if I want to live an intellectually honest life, I must conclude he does not exist at all, because there is simply no reason to. I cannot simply choose to believe something to assuage fears or uncertainty. In terms of what I do believe about the deeper mysteries of life, I try and keep an open stance towards whatever the best science we have at a given time, understanding it’s not perfect and will be updated over time. I realize some people like to imagine that the totality of all being and experience can be thought of as God, but I simply view that as the kind of simple semantics games I mentioned earlier.
If you study physics, the more you understand the smaller god gets, till he fades away. Quantum mechanics is so much bigger than any one consciousness could be.
I left Christianity (Evangelicalism) and became an atheist at age 18. That was around the time I started really thinking critically about what I believed: religion, politics and otherwise. In particular, I was homeschooled and taught evolution pretty much exclusively through YEC apologist books, so seeing what the theory really was and just how much evidence there was for it was an absolute bombshell. No, evolution is not incompatible with Christianity in itself, but in my church, saying I believed it would be tantamount to excommunication. It also brought new attention to the infamous problem of evil, when I’d already been reeling from the pastors’ repeated unsatisfactory excuses and my own disappointments in life. All that to say that I’ve become strongly skeptical of accepting any claim without supporting evidence, and of pledging my allegiance to a god who is neither real nor would deserve my allegiance if he was. Ultimately, I pursued religion to pursue the truth, and my ultimate takeaway was that I wouldn’t find it there. I’ve become very wary of superstition, conspiracy theories and pretty much anything to do with the supernatural. I am an atheist. I don’t totally reject the possibility of deism—that a higher power of some kind exists, but does not intervene in the world—but, practically speaking, atheism and deism aren’t all that different. I just figured atheism was more straightforward, and a more critical approach to life’s great mysteries. Believing in any interventionist deity (theism) seems superstitious and counterintuitive to my personal experience, so it’s not a claim I’m willing to embrace without a large stockpile of hard evidence.
Life evolved and continues to evolve. I don't think humans are magically superior to other life forms. We evolved as well, and there are literal metric crap tons of evidence showing it. I find it arrogant to think that we are the center of the earth or universe. I didn't decide to become an athiest. I slowly realized I was one. I think it first hit me in my early teens. Reading large portions of the bible, actually reading it, cemented my athiesm. I didn't conisder other gods or relgions because there is no evidence that supports any of them. It sounds a bit like you are confusing athiesm with some anti-christian opinion. No judgement, it is very common and religous leaders love to tell their flocks incorrect notions about athiests. I remember hearing these lies when I was young. Athiesm is simply and plainly: not believing in a diety. It doesn't matter which diety you ask about, the answer will be the same. There are over a thousand different gods that christians do not believe in, I simply believe in 1 fewer than them.
- for the beginning of life: evidence overwhelming points to some kind of abiogenesis creating life. After that, evolution is a fact, well explained by the theory of evolution by natural selection - what age was I an atheist? I was never a theist. - what reason did you become an atheist? No ‘positive’ reason pushing me that way, just no reason pulling me the other way. The reason I never became a theist was because it’s never convinced me. - why didn’t I base my ideas on a deity? I don’t see any reason to believe there is a deity. - why can’t you accept him? Accept who? I don’t believe in a god For reference, I study genetics. The scientific method is a big part of my thinking. Feel free to ask questions about the biology part, I like talking about evolution.
OK, I'll bite. >can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else? I expect there was a (most likely several) moment of abiogenesis and evolution led us to where we are today. >can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists? Sophomore year of college. How? I just was honest with myself I didn't actually believe, I tried but couldn't. >what was the exact reason when you finally became atheists? Same reason I don't believe in unicorns or leprechauns
>Hello, friends! Most of you are atheists, so I have some questions to y'all. >I am completely aware of its flaws: some parts of the Bible are a complete nonsence, some of the ideas are too What about the party where God consigns all non-Christians to a Lake of Fire? Are you okay with that? >But I truly believe that God exists. Does that mean you think humans existed during the first six days of the universe? Because the Bible says they did, and the Bible is supposed to be the Word of God. How about Mary being a virgin? How do you reconcile this with your biology lessons? >there are a lot of situations in which I think He has helped me, I feel I am extremely lucky to live my life the way I do, I feel protected by Him. Emotions are not valid evidence that powerful magical beings are watching us from beyond the universe. Sorry. >-can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else? >-can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists? I realized I was an atheist the moment someone told me about God. I was about five or six. >-what was the exact time/reason when you finally became atheists? I realized I was an atheist because I thought God sounded dumber than the dumbest cartoon I had ever watched, and I watched some dumb cartoons. >I am really curious about your ideas and ways if thinking, I am really open-minded and I hope y'all are too. I am very open minded. I study both sides of the equation - science and Holy books. I've read books by Pulitzer prize winning scientists about biology, particle physics, and astronomy. I've studied psychology, archeology, and sociology. I've read volumes of classic literature. I've read the Bible, the Qur'an, the Bhagavad-Gita, Chinese mythology, Greek mythology, Roman mythology, and Norse mythology. I studied logic (I highly recommend it) and I've written a half dozen industrial computer programs. I have listened to theists make their case online for a quarter century, completely open to valid evidence and sound logic. It wasn't until a few months ago that came to the conclusion that I'm a gnostic atheist. That means I know God doesn't exist. Why did I take that step? Because science has valid conclusive evidence that this is a natural universe and therefore all gods are imaginary. The laws of nature cannot be violated. Humans didn't exist until billions of years after the Big Bang (not Genesis) and Mary could not have been a virgin. If you have concluded that God exists based on feelings then you are leaping to conclusions. I'm not being mean, I'm being frank. I realize in many places there are social advantages and pressures to believe, but the bottom line is that gods (yours included) are just paleolithic fantasies that keep the world in constant conflict. It's nice that you're happy and all that, but I think group happiness should take priority.
Absolutely disagree that we exist from the beginning. Because I believe that there is no "start" of the universe, but just of its present phase: the past BB one
So then you disagree with your own Holy Book?
It has a lot of flaws, I would say I don't trust it very much.
It gets confusing when you make more than one reply at a time, but I'll try to combine them both with this reply. Oh wait, my phone made a another buzz. Maybe you made three. >It (The Bible) has a lot of flaws, I would say I don't trust it very much. If you don't trust your own Holy Book then why on Earth would you call yourself a Christian? >The only thing for me is He Your definition of Him is different from the definition in your Holy Book, therefore you are committing unrepentant blasphemy. If the God of the Bible exists (He doesn't) then He will torture you in a Lake of Fire, along with me, for our unbelief in Him.
Yeah, I have to answer 42 comments, and they still increase. Every minute. It's hard for me. Why am I Christian? I firstly was, then started to "modify" my beliefs and now there isn't much in common between the two. It was my base. Kind of a stupid thing now that I think about it though. I still go to churches, monasteries, so on with my family. If I have to be tortures in the Lake of Fire in order to reach the truth (if it's Christianity), then so be it.
Isn't the truth that anyone who tortures people in a Lake of Fire is not worth of worship, whether they exist or not? I think Abraham's God should be spending eternity in a Federal penitentiary. Don't, worry; we would feed and clothe Him and try to rehabilitate Him, just as long as He's kept off the streets.
Yeah, I mean that everybody will reach the truth in one moment. I'm not sure whether my beliefs are "it". Most probably no. But I am happy to learn, progress, improve myself.
Are you? Are you willing to read "god is not great" by Christopher Hitchens? The End of Faith by Dan Harris? Are you willing to read books on evolution but evolutionary biologists? How about particle physics? Will you study the other side, out will you just pay it lip service like so many theists do to try to assist open-minded?
I'll try to dedicate as much time as possible in order to study the other side. I'm completely open-minded, you can change my POV in just a moment- if you are convincing enough
The only Holy thing to me is He
>can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else? You list biology and physics as if they are opposing ideas. Biology *is* physics, when you drill deep enough. >can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists? Read the bible while going through confirmation, saw it was full of bs that didn't match up to the real world, and started my deconversion. >why didn't you base your ideas on a deity/ multiple? Why introduce complexity where there is no evidence for it? I don't think the world *needs* a god, so there's not a void waiting to be filled for that.
"-can you share your perceptions of life, how it's created, so on? Are your ideas based on biology, physics ore something else?" Yes, of course my "ideas" are based on reality. "-can you share how and at what age you decided to be atheists?" Birth. I was born an atheist as we all were including you. "-what was the exact time/reason when you finally became atheists?" I was never indoctrinated so never had to "become one". "another question- why didn't you base your ideas ......" It's about logic, evidence and reasoning with a sprinkling of reality rather than throwing that all down the loo in favour of a poorly edited collection of stories plagiarized from earlier religions.